From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Sep 16 15: 9: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EF037B40D for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.132.139.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.132.139]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f8GM8wD13619; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BA52329.36662F9A@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:09:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Kruse Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz References: <20010916042120.5e02183e.CK1@wwwtech.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Christian Kruse wrote: [ ... ] > "Page fault while in kernel mode" [ ... ] > RAM: 4 * 256MB DDR (PC 266) Infinion RAM NOTE: This may or may not be your problem; it was mine, on similar hardware. -- With 1G of RAM, you will want to increase the number of open files, sockets, etc., that are created on static allocations, in order to force some TLBs which are not flushed by a reload of %CR3 or an explicit INVTLB to be flushed, to end up being recycled instead (effectively flushing them), since there are some subtle problems in the code in locore.s, machdep.c, and pmap.c in the mp case, when interacting with the PG_G and PG_PSE bits. An alternative workaround is to add: options DISABLE_PSE to your configuration file. I've locally corrected the problem, and run with 4G of RAM+PG_PSE without incident, but I had to do some evil to make it work, which you may not want in your kernel (e.g. I changed the machdep.c swap and reserve allocations, which get ungodly huge when you have a lot of memory, and end up being largely useless, when your physical address space is so close to populate -- Matt made some changes there in -current, but I don't agree with them, so my code is "weird", starting with a 3G/1G instead of 1G/3G split on KVA vs. user space addresses). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Sep 16 15:53:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.de (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89B137B407 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15ikmm-0005fp-02; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:53:12 +0200 Received: from waylander.defunced.de (310064565241-0001@[217.80.195.59]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 15ikmk-0OQKKeC; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:53:10 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:53:12 +0200 From: christiankruse@t-online.de (Christian Kruse) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.51) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Christian Kruse X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <31714030.20010917005312@wwwtech.de> To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------E861C626005337" X-Sender: 310064565241-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ------------E861C626005337 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Kenneth, Sunday, September 16, 2001, 7:59:53 AM, you wrote: KWC> Would you mind sending the kernel configuration files that you KWC> used? Yes, of course, sorry. I attached the file. Greets, CK -- s s^sse;s (([^\s]))(ord($1)%2? chr(ord($1)-5):chr(ord($1)-3))sieg;s s^s$_see; __END__ uwlsy%*Sr%kqdphv%yr%AFN4%dy%zzzyhfm3ihC*1'as'> ------------E861C626005337 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=TEAMONE Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=TEAMONE bWFjaGluZQkJaTM4NgpjcHUJCUkzODZfQ1BVCmNwdQkJSTQ4Nl9DUFUKY3B1CQlJNTg2X0NQVQpj cHUJCUk2ODZfQ1BVCmlkZW50CQlURUFNT05FCm1heHVzZXJzCTMyCgojbWFrZW9wdGlvbnMJREVC VUc9LWcJCSNCdWlsZCBrZXJuZWwgd2l0aCBnZGIoMSkgZGVidWcgc3ltYm9scwoKb3B0aW9ucyAJ TUFUSF9FTVVMQVRFCQkjU3VwcG9ydCBmb3IgeDg3IGVtdWxhdGlvbgpvcHRpb25zIAlJTkVUCQkJ I0ludGVyTkVUd29ya2luZwpvcHRpb25zIAlJTkVUNgkJCSNJUHY2IGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIHBy b3RvY29scwpvcHRpb25zIAlGRlMJCQkjQmVya2VsZXkgRmFzdCBGaWxlc3lzdGVtCm9wdGlvbnMg CUZGU19ST09UCQkjRkZTIHVzYWJsZSBhcyByb290IGRldmljZSBba2VlcCB0aGlzIV0Kb3B0aW9u cyAJU09GVFVQREFURVMJCSNFbmFibGUgRkZTIHNvZnQgdXBkYXRlcyBzdXBwb3J0Cm9wdGlvbnMg 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(v1.51) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Christian Kruse X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <271053846.20010917005852@wwwtech.de> To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz In-Reply-To: <3BA52329.36662F9A@mindspring.com> References: <20010916042120.5e02183e.CK1@wwwtech.de> <3BA52329.36662F9A@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 310064565241-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Terry, Monday, September 17, 2001, 12:09:45 AM, you wrote: TL> Christian Kruse wrote: TL> [ ... ] >> "Page fault while in kernel mode" TL> [ ... ] >> RAM: 4 * 256MB DDR (PC 266) Infinion RAM TL> NOTE: This may or may not be your problem; it was mine, on TL> similar hardware. It seems as if it isn't. I still get the "page fault" width disabled PSE. Greets, CK -- s s^sse;s (([^\s]))(ord($1)%2? chr(ord($1)-5):chr(ord($1)-3))sieg;s s^s$_see; __END__ uwlsy%*Sr%kqdphv%yr%AFN4%dy%zzzyhfm3ihC*1'as'> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Sep 16 16:24:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.14.150.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A103D37B409 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8GNOnM89605 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379AD3808; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: Christian Kruse , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz In-Reply-To: <3BA52329.36662F9A@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:24:49 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010916232449.379AD3808@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > Christian Kruse wrote: > > [ ... ] > > > "Page fault while in kernel mode" > > [ ... ] > > > RAM: 4 * 256MB DDR (PC 266) Infinion RAM > > NOTE: This may or may not be your problem; it was mine, on > similar hardware. > > -- > > With 1G of RAM, you will want to increase the number of open > files, sockets, etc., that are created on static allocations, > in order to force some TLBs which are not flushed by a reload > of %CR3 or an explicit INVTLB to be flushed, to end up being > recycled instead (effectively flushing them), since there are > some subtle problems in the code in locore.s, machdep.c, and > pmap.c in the mp case, when interacting with the PG_G and PG_PSE > bits. Terry, you are on crack. We do not use PG_G in SMP kernels. There cannot be any PG_G and PG_PSE interaction. > An alternative workaround is to add: > > options DISABLE_PSE > > to your configuration file. > > I've locally corrected the problem, and run with 4G of RAM+PG_PSE > without incident, but I had to do some evil to make it work, > which you may not want in your kernel (e.g. I changed the > machdep.c swap and reserve allocations, which get ungodly huge > when you have a lot of memory, and end up being largely useless, > when your physical address space is so close to populate -- Matt > made some changes there in -current, but I don't agree with them, > so my code is "weird", starting with a 3G/1G instead of 1G/3G > split on KVA vs. user space addresses). > > -- Terry > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message > > Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Sep 16 16:46:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C94137B40B for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.132.139.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.132.139]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04507; Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BA539EB.4840BD5B@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:46:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Wemm Cc: Christian Kruse , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz References: <20010916232449.379AD3808@overcee.netplex.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm wrote: > [ ... ] since there are > > some subtle problems in the code in locore.s, machdep.c, and > > pmap.c in the mp case, when interacting with the PG_G and PG_PSE > > bits. > > Terry, you are on crack. We do not use PG_G in SMP kernels. There > cannot be any PG_G and PG_PSE interaction. You have misread the statement; here is the interpretation, according to strict English rules: (some subtle problems in the code in locore.s, machdep.c, and pmap.c in the mp case, when interacting with the PG_G bit) || (some subtle problems in the code in locore.s, machdep.c, and pmap.c in the mp case, when interacting with the PG_PSE bit). To make this clear: this is why the final word "bits" was plural, ending with "PG_G and PG_PSE bits" rather than "PG_G bit and PG_PSE bit". The use of the conjunctive "and" was the same as in "cancer is caused in humans by exposure to benzine and amyl nitrate". Hope this clarifies my statement for you... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Mon Sep 17 4:43:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE21E37B401 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 04:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19732 invoked by uid 0); 17 Sep 2001 11:43:51 -0000 Received: from p3e9e21bb.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO 1xp133) (62.158.33.187) by mail.gmx.net (mp011-rz3) with SMTP; 17 Sep 2001 11:43:51 -0000 Message-ID: <001901c13f6d$fd4aafc0$0400a8c0@1xp133> From: "Gregor Bittel" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:43:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, >Hello Kenneth, > >Sunday, September 16, 2001, 7:59:53 AM, you wrote: > >KWC> Would you mind sending the kernel configuration files that you >KWC> used? >Yes, of course, sorry. > >I attached the file. > I think, you should uncomment or delete (with #) these lines: cpu I386_CPU cpu I486_CPU I惴 not sure, but I think this is your problem. -Gregor. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Mon Sep 17 18: 5:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from server1.wojo.com (server1.wojo.com [216.42.139.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C394137B406 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ishadow (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server1.wojo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE81B068 for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:05:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robin Breathe" To: Subject: RE: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 02:05:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c13fdd$fecaa420$0200a8c0@ishadow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010916042120.5e02183e.CK1@wwwtech.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Have you checked the cooling on those chips? I got some funky problems, like yours, when my fans were improperly mounted. Double check that both CPUs are ok (I blew one of mine). If one of the processors is knackered, or improperly cooled, that would explain your getting errors along those lines. Also update to the 2.07a bios if you can. It adds some level of protection against overheating, amongst other things. Robin. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG] On Behalf Of Christian Kruse Sent: 16 September 2001 03:21 To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Hiho, I've got some problems with a dual Athlon 1,2GHz MP. I've installed FreeBSD 4.3 RELEASE and updatet it via cvsup to FreeBSD 4.4 RC 3. After that I created my own kernel conf with only the necessary entries, including the two SMP entries from the GENERIC file. I compiled the kernel and rebootet, but I got an "Page fault while in kernel mode" Ok, after that I've copied the GENERIC kernconf file to an other file and wrote the SMP entries into it - same result. When the boot scripts initializes the SCSI hardware, I get an "Page fault while in kernel mode" and the computer reboots. My hardware is the following: CPU: 2 * AMD Athlon 1,2GHz MP Board: Thyon S2462 Thunder K7 HDs: IBM DDYS-T18350N S96H RAM: 4 * 256MB DDR (PC 266) Infinion RAM Can anybody help me? Greets, CK -- s s^sse;s (([^\s]))(ord($1)%2? chr(ord($1)-5):chr(ord($1)-3))sieg;s s^s$_see; __END__ uwlsy%*Sr%kqdphv%yr%AFN4%dy%zzzyhfm3ihC*1'as'> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 6:59:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from columbus.cris.net (ns.cris.net [212.110.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC1337B40F for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phantom.cris.net (phantom.cris.net [212.110.130.74]) by columbus.cris.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11669; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:59:11 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from ml@localhost) by phantom.cris.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f8IE1Pc87486; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:01:25 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ml) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:01:24 +0300 From: Alexey Zelkin To: Gregor Bittel Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Message-ID: <20010918170124.A87445@phantom.cris.net> References: <001901c13f6d$fd4aafc0$0400a8c0@1xp133> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <001901c13f6d$fd4aafc0$0400a8c0@1xp133>; from Gregor.Bittel@GMX.de on Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 01:43:31PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 01:43:31PM +0200, Gregor Bittel wrote: > >KWC> Would you mind sending the kernel configuration files that you > >KWC> used? > >Yes, of course, sorry. > > > >I attached the file. > > > > I think, you should uncomment or delete (with #) these lines: > cpu I386_CPU > cpu I486_CPU > > I'm not sure, but I think this is your problem. As I recall correctly it's impossible to build SMP kernel with I386_CPU option. Or it's possible now ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 8:27:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAE137B401 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:27:07 -0600 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828F451@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: 'Robin Breathe' , freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:27:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As a side note on this topic (overheated Athlons), check out this article on Tom's Hardware. They cooked two Athlons. http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/index.html Charles -----Original Message----- From: Robin Breathe [mailto:freebsd@lineone.net] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:05 PM To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Hi, Have you checked the cooling on those chips? I got some funky problems, like yours, when my fans were improperly mounted. Double check that both CPUs are ok (I blew one of mine). If one of the processors is knackered, or improperly cooled, that would explain your getting errors along those lines. Also update to the 2.07a bios if you can. It adds some level of protection against overheating, amongst other things. Robin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 8:47:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A0237B403 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 41859 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2001 15:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Sep 2001 15:47:09 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010918170124.A87445@phantom.cris.net> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Alexey Zelkin Subject: Re: Re[2]: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, Gregor Bittel Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Sep-01 Alexey Zelkin wrote: > hi, > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 01:43:31PM +0200, Gregor Bittel wrote: > >> >KWC> Would you mind sending the kernel configuration files that you >> >KWC> used? >> >Yes, of course, sorry. >> > >> >I attached the file. >> > >> >> I think, you should uncomment or delete (with #) these lines: >> cpu I386_CPU >> cpu I486_CPU >> >> I'm not sure, but I think this is your problem. > > As I recall correctly it's impossible to build SMP kernel with > I386_CPU option. Or it's possible now ? That's correct. The i386 doesn't support the instructions needed to implement locks. (cmpxchg) -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 9:25: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from columbus.cris.net (ns.cris.net [212.110.128.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD5F37B408; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ark.cris.net (ns2.cris.net [212.110.128.68]) by columbus.cris.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29282; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:17:04 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from phantom@localhost) by ark.cris.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f8IGGXW70543; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:16:33 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:16:33 +0300 From: Alexey Zelkin To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org, Gregor Bittel Subject: Re: Re[2]: Problems with a Dual Ahtlon 1,2 GHz Message-ID: <20010918191633.A70178@ark.cris.net> References: <20010918170124.A87445@phantom.cris.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 08:46:57AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 08:46:57AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 18-Sep-01 Alexey Zelkin wrote: > > hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 01:43:31PM +0200, Gregor Bittel wrote: > > > >> >KWC> Would you mind sending the kernel configuration files that you > >> >KWC> used? > >> >Yes, of course, sorry. > >> > > >> >I attached the file. > >> > > >> > >> I think, you should uncomment or delete (with #) these lines: > >> cpu I386_CPU > >> cpu I486_CPU > >> > >> I'm not sure, but I think this is your problem. > > > > As I recall correctly it's impossible to build SMP kernel with > > I386_CPU option. Or it's possible now ? > > That's correct. The i386 doesn't support the instructions needed to implement > locks. (cmpxchg) In this case I can propose that incorrect kernel config was posted. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 9:28: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from turbo.dreamtime.net (dreamtime.net [209.61.206.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989FE37B407 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stephenl5qmj8e (lsanca1-ar8-122-145.lsanca1.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.122.145]) by turbo.dreamtime.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f8IGRpM28369; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:27:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from clients@dreamtime.net) From: "Dreamtime.net Inc." To: Cc: Subject: Kernal Optimzation Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:26:40 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I'm looking for someone to optimize the kernal in my machine. I'd rather have an expert do this rather than spend a billion hours trying to figure it out myself. Anyone interested? Thanks. Sincerely, Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 10:31:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from turbo.dreamtime.net (dreamtime.net [209.61.206.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A457F37B40F for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stephenl5qmj8e (lsanca1-ar8-122-145.lsanca1.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.122.145]) by turbo.dreamtime.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f8IHVYM31163 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:31:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from clients@dreamtime.net) From: "Dreamtime.net Inc." To: Subject: Symbolic Links Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know the limit of how many symbolic links can be in one directory? For one of our systems, we put a symbolic link in a directory per each user. We have an install coming that will be fore one million users. So we need a symbolic link for each one. But wondering what the the max limit for symbolic links is for one directory. Thanks. Sincerely, Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 10:44:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from ctron-dnm.ctron.com (ctron-dnm.cabletron.com [12.25.1.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4687937B406 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ctron-dnm.ctron.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13702; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(134.141.72.253) by ctron-dnm.ctron.com via smap (4.1) id xma013631; Tue, 18 Sep 01 13:51:44 -0400 Received: from roam.enterasys.com (roam [134.141.190.162]) by olympus.ctron.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10279; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:43:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Doehner X-X-Sender: To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: Subject: Re: Symbolic Links In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stephen, Do you intend to have multiple users share UIDs? As far as I know, UIDs under BSD are only 16 bits wide, which gets you to 64K, not 1 million. Do they all have to be on the same machine? Best Regards, Bernie On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Dreamtime.net Inc. wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:30:24 -0700 > From: Dreamtime.net Inc. > To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Symbolic Links > > Does anyone know the limit of how many symbolic links can be in one > directory? For one of our systems, we put a symbolic link in a directory per > each user. We have an install coming that will be fore one million users. So > we need a symbolic link for each one. But wondering what the the max limit > for symbolic links is for one directory. > > Thanks. > > Sincerely, > > Stephen > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 12:53:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from turbo.dreamtime.net (dreamtime.net [209.61.206.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771B137B41D for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stephenl5qmj8e (lsanca1-ar8-122-145.lsanca1.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.122.145]) by turbo.dreamtime.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f8IJrHM37135 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:53:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from clients@dreamtime.net) From: "Dreamtime.net Inc." To: Subject: RE: Symbolic Links Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:52:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It seems my question was not too accurate. We need 1 million "soft" symlinks, all in one directory, owned by only one user. To be exact, how many "soft" or "hard" sym.links are allowed in one directory by FreeBSD 4.2? Sincerely, Stephen H. Kapit - President Dreamtime.net Inc. http://www.dreamtime.net http://www.email-blaster.com Fax - 509-275-1264 ICQ# - 36768098 Dreamtime.net is an internet development company specializing in The Replicator, MLM-ONE!, Email Blaster, DREAMcommerce, and DREAMcharge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 13: 1:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE7137B40F for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 1416181D01; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:01:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:01:25 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Symbolic Links Message-ID: <20010918150125.K61456@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from clients@dreamtime.net on Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 12:52:08PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dreamtime.net Inc. [010918 14:53] wrote: > It seems my question was not too accurate. We need 1 million "soft" > symlinks, all in one directory, owned by only one user. > > To be exact, how many "soft" or "hard" sym.links are allowed in one > directory by FreeBSD 4.2? If you need to do something like that then you have an archetetural problem. You should try to figure out some sort of workaround, perhaps using a database backend of some sort to back this sort of system. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 13:38:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (revolt.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E77137B411 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revolt.poohsticks.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f8IKc0s04917; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:38:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Message-Id: <200109182038.f8IKc0s04917@revolt.poohsticks.org> To: Bernie Doehner Cc: "Dreamtime.net Inc." , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Symbolic Links In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:43:33 EDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4914.1000845480.1@revolt.poohsticks.org> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:38:00 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message , bdoehner@ enterasys.com writes: >Stephen, > >Do you intend to have multiple users share UIDs? > >As far as I know, UIDs under BSD are only 16 bits wide, which gets you >to 64K, not 1 million. Apart from which traditional unix file systems (including FFS) don't sort directories thus making lookup time proportional to the number of entries. If you must have 1 million directories/files/etc, split them up some how. One method I'm fond of is to strip off the first couple of characters to make subdirectories, next couple of characters for directories under there, repeated as long as it takes to keep the number of files reasonable (sort of like terminfo does) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 13:39:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4FF37B446; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f8IKd2h27465; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:39:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:37:42 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Symbolic Links Message-ID: <20010918153741.B3372@dan.emsphone.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Followups set to freebsd-questions. This is not an SMP question. ] In the last episode (Sep 18), Dreamtime.net Inc. said: > Does anyone know the limit of how many symbolic links can be in one > directory? For one of our systems, we put a symbolic link in a > directory per each user. We have an install coming that will be fore > one million users. So we need a symbolic link for each one. But > wondering what the the max limit for symbolic links is for one > directory. In the last episode (Sep 18), Dreamtime.net Inc. said: > It seems my question was not too accurate. We need 1 million "soft" > symlinks, all in one directory, owned by only one user. > > To be exact, how many "soft" or "hard" sym.links are allowed in one > directory by FreeBSD 4.2? There is no restriction on hard or soft links per se, as they are just files. On the other hand, having a million files of any type in a single directory is probably not a good idea. If these are homedirs or mail spoolfiles, the usual workaround is to create subdirectories so "abcdefgh" becomes "ab/cdefgh" or "abc/defgh", which is much better wrt directory lookup speed. I wonder if the UFS_DIRHASH code would help here.. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 13:40:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (revolt.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F41C37B413 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revolt.poohsticks.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f8IKegs04951; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Message-Id: <200109182040.f8IKegs04951@revolt.poohsticks.org> To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Symbolic Links In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:52:08 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4948.1000845642.1@revolt.poohsticks.org> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:40:42 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message , clients@dreamt ime.net writes: >It seems my question was not too accurate. We need 1 million "soft" >symlinks, all in one directory, owned by only one user. > >To be exact, how many "soft" or "hard" sym.links are allowed in one >directory by FreeBSD 4.2? However many dirent structures it takes to run out of space in a directory inode; although in practice you'll probably run out of inodes first. Of course, past some point FFS lookups will become too slow to be useable. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Sep 18 21:55: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0D737B410 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24533; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BA8228B.E25AA03F@elischer.org> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:43:55 -0700 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Symbolic Links References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Dreamtime.net Inc." wrote: > > Does anyone know the limit of how many symbolic links can be in one > directory? For one of our systems, we put a symbolic link in a directory per > each user. We have an install coming that will be fore one million users. So > we need a symbolic link for each one. But wondering what the the max limit > for symbolic links is for one directory. you can do this until you run out of inodes. but you really don't want to... use a hshing method to breake them into smaller groups e.g. /o/b/obiwan > > Thanks. > > Sincerely, > > Stephen > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message -- +------------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ julian@elischer.org +------>x USA \ a very strange | ( OZ ) \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Fri Sep 21 22:14:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail2out.giga.net.tw (mail2out.giga.net.tw [203.133.1.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3E737B419 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from index (u24-164.u203-203.giga.net.tw [203.203.24.164]) by mail2out.giga.net.tw (Postfix) with SMTP id 0534A14B9E for ; Sat, 22 Sep 2001 13:08:18 +0800 (CST) To: From: gd168@24k.com.tw Subject: 環保雷射碳粉匣專題研究報告 Date: 星期六, 22 九月 2001 13:06:22 +0800 Message-Id: <37156.546090972224000.209541@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 受文者：呈　國立台灣大學暨所屬行政學術研究單位／ 　　　　　　全國各級機關團體／公司行號／公會或個人　請鑒核！ 發文者：企龍辦公用品有限公司　電話：(02)2701-2000 主　旨：使用〔環保雷射碳粉匣〕之優點及採購要點。 說　明：環保雷射碳粉匣之專題研究報告 （一）前言 　　　　　近年來，由於各項相關技術成熟，配合半導體產業篷勃發展 　　　使得雷射印表機價格大幅下滑，各廠商無不壓低價格，以擴大市 　　　場佔有率，再以後續的耗材賺回其利潤，您花在碳粉匣的費用， 　　　長期而言實在是一筆可觀的支出。 　　　　　　　　〔使用環保雷射碳粉匣之三大理由〕 　　　　 (1)技術上已突破：有鑑於碳粉匣和墨水匣需求量不斷成長， 　　　國人五年前開始著手，針對雷射印表機電子寫真技術及碳粉感光 　　　體，進行相關研發工作，研發小組成員皆為博碩士學歷，研發小 　　　組成員針對各大廠牌機器精密結構，已有深度了解，掌握許多相 　　　關技術，對碳粉匣的材料及製程參數有若干改進，以適應台灣亞 　　　熱帶高溫潮濕的氣候環境，經嚴格品管控制，國人所生產的環保 　　　雷射碳粉匣，列印品質和原廠同樣清晰，且不會傷害機器。 　　　　 (2)為環保盡心力：碳粉匣造成對環境的污染與日俱增，人類 　　　應反省覺悟，我們只有一個地球，為全人類及後代子孫，保留一 　　　個乾淨的生存環境，已到刻不容緩的地步！讓我們從校園做起， 　　　一起來回收並使用環保雷射碳粉匣。 　　　　 (3)節省列印費用：根據工商時報 90年4月12日報導指出，用 　　　環保雷射碳粉匣可節省４成左右的費用，不必多花錢。 （二）全球趨勢分析 　　　　　1999年碳粉卡匣再生回收使用比較： 　　　歐美市場再生回收卡匣使用率 ３０％ (約1/3) 　　　台灣市場再生回收卡匣使用率 　５％ 　　　(資料來源：Recharger期刊) 　　　　　台灣約有50萬台雷射印表機，預估每年使用約100∼200萬支 　　　雷射碳粉匣，製造出約2000∼2500公噸固體廢棄物，並且每年這 　　　個數目正在成長。而這些塑膠廢棄物須要超過十個世紀來分解， 　　　對台灣三萬六千平方公里的土地上，造成嚴重的負荷。 　　　　　歐美各國相關環保法令強制規定製造廠商的回收比率，已行 　　　之多年，對於回收業者也有對應的輔助政策，並不斷的教育使用 　　　者回收、減量再利用(Recycle, Reduce, Reuse)的觀念。 　　　　　事實證明，此舉不僅有助於環保且能降低支出，美國已明令 　　　聯邦政府的各單位必須使用環保碳粉匣。 （三）對環境保護及資源回收再利用，具有正面意義 　　　　　　如果製造每個卡匣需要超過三夸脫油，那麼台灣每年就會 　　　用掉近100 萬加崙的石油。如果您換買環保碳粉匣，很明確地， 　　　您已經對保護環境做出貢獻了，因為我們的圾圾場可以減少一個 　　　空間來存放您的卡匣。 　　　　　以台灣目前使用量愈來愈多的雷射印表機而言，每天丟棄的 　　　碳粉匣不知多少，而這些碳粉匣裡的碳粉色劑微粒，尺寸約6-12 　　　微米，卻會滲入地下水，污染水源，若想從水中除去這些碳粉微 　　　粒，就必須加裝特殊濾水設備，因此無論公司企業或學校及個人 　　　都有責任一起來防止碳粉匣污染環境的工作，碳粉匣的回收再利 　　　用，是目前的唯一途徑。 （四）環保碳粉匣之採購要點 　　　　　由於市售環保碳粉匣，供應商過多，各家的品質參差不齊， 　　　敬請認明企龍代理的環保碳粉匣，為目前台灣唯一專業導向之環 　　　保雷射碳粉匣，品質滿意保證，不滿包退，確保消費權益，避免 　　　買到劣質品，選擇企龍，品質有保障！ 　　　採購前務必詢問下列重要參考依據： 　　　1.環保雷射碳粉匣，是否完全以標準製程製造？　製程中，廢碳 　　　　粉槽及相關零件是否清理乾淨並檢試元件性能？ 　　　2.儲粉槽是否完全清潔乾淨後，才重新裝填全新碳粉？ 　　　3.所充填之碳粉，是否為國際間知名碳粉廠出品？ 　　　4.所有儲粉槽，是否以封條密封，完整交付使用人？ 　　　5.碳粉匣是否通過完整而嚴格品管測試後才出廠？ 　　　6.測試用之碳粉是否為外加？　所充填的碳粉數量和原廠碳粉匣 　　　　容量是否相同，會不會短少？ 　　　7.充填之碳粉是否經過精密測試，確認比標準值高才裝填？ 　　　8.所更換之感光鼓是否為國際間知名之高科技廠牌產品？ 　　　9.碳粉匣成品是否以黑色塑膠紙實施避光包裝後，並以氣泡袋或 　　　　特殊襯墊保護，再裝入保護槽，以確保運輸途中乃至使用前， 　　　　不受任何光線其他物理性，化學性傷害？ 　　　　企龍代理的環保雷射碳粉匣業已全數通過上述測試，全面實施 　　　　品質滿意保證再訂購，不滿意保證退貨！ （五）價格資訊：環保雷射碳粉匣之價格已公布於網站，歡迎上網查詢 　　　　　　　　網址：http://clik.to/96969180 （六）聯絡資訊：以上資料由企龍辦公用品有限公司所提供，如需訂購 　　　　　　　　請電：(02)2701-2000我們熱誠的同仁為您服務。 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message