From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 3:56:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4592B37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 03:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B141343E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 03:56:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAOBuf998401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:56:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <037c01c293b0$8dabaa00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00E4A.1B6A0D8A@mindspring.com> <031001c29356$4b383300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE06EEF.F321ECDA@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:56:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > IKON Office Systems. Never heard of them. When did this take place, and what _exactly_ did they write? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 4: 6:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267E437B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CDE43E6E for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:06:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0004.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.4] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18FvWt-00017h-00; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:06:28 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE0C075.B77B1A0D@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:05:09 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00E4A.1B6A0D8A@mindspring.com> <031001c29356$4b383300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE06EEF.F321ECDA@mindspring.com> <037c01c293b0$8dabaa00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Terry writes: > > IKON Office Systems. > > Never heard of them. When did this take place, and what _exactly_ did they > write? 1995/1996. They wrote the Microsoft Mail client which was renamed "Outlook", on contract. I would only expect you to have heard of them if you knew as much about the code contained in Microsoft products as you appeared to be claiming you did, when you incorrectly stated that Outlook and Outlook Express do not share code. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 4:22:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B41F37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196CD43EA3 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:22:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAOCMX998624 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:22:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:22:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > Blind, unreasoning support of it by morons > who have bought into the idea that "What's > good for Microsoft, is good for America"? Quite the opposite. As a mainstream operating system, Windows is used and endorsed by many people with no emotional investment in their choice of operating system. Most see it as a tool that matches requirements. When their relative calm and objectivity is compared to the frothing emotion of advocates of many other operating systems, the prudent choice (for those who are likewise uninvolved emotionally) is clear. It's important to understand the impact of this. The kind of language I'm seeing used here is nothing less than alarming to people who do not inhabit the tightly circumscribed, febrile universe of OS zealots, and these extremists who use it are immediately written off as angry young males with far more emotion than sense by the rational majority (the same rational majority that, in theory, should be the target of advocacy). Conspiracy theories, ad hominem, and baseless accusations of malfeasance are totally unpersuasive to corporate CIOs and Fortune 500 companies, and induce observers to mark their purveyors as bickering children who are best ignored. > You are a paid troll. Who is paying me? > You are paid to put opinions which are > dictated to you by your employers ... Who are my employers? See my observations on conspiracy theories and accusations of malfeasance above. One of the distinguishing characteristics of OS zealots is that they believe their OS to be so important and so special that it _must_ be giving birth to vast, secret conspiracies conceived exclusively for the purpose of keeping their pet OS from rising naturally to a position of dominance in the universe. In fact, often nothing impedes the acceptance of the OS more than the zealots themselves. Anyone considering Linux or the Mac, for example, may have second thoughts after encountering a few of the wild-eyed fanatics that seem to orbit endlessly around such minority operating systems. > ... instead of getting honest opinions by people > using FreeBSD as a desktop system, they see your > crap about how "FreeBSD is just a server OS, and > doesn't work well as a desktop" -- which is a > blatant lie on your part. Didn't you just say that you never use ad hominem? Anyway, someone reading the archives will definitely get an impression of some sort, I suppose, but I daresay that it will not be the one you suggest. > It is this, not an hinest mistake, which resulted > in your posting of private email to the mailing > list: because you start with a new message body > for your reponse, rather than using a reply > option, and then cut-and paste the message > you are replying to into the message body. I'm not sure why this would be a _dishonest_ mistake--what were you saying about ad hominem, again? Anyway, I don't start with a new message body, I use the reply button and then remove all but the relevant parts of the original message to which I am replying, in order to save bandwidth. > The tools you use to do this are also the reason > that you tend to truncate quoted message bodies > line lengths, reformatting messages into > near-unreadability. I do that because I must precede the quoted text with a special character so that it can be easily recognized. I keep the lines thus quoted short so that they are less likely to be automatically wrapped by other mail clients. > You are a moron ... Tell me again about your avoidance of ad hominem; in particular, explain to me the purpose of the comment above, if it is not intended as ad hominem. > ... if you believe that the people on this list do > not see through your little charade at "advocacy"(*). The people on this list are welcome to address their assessments to me themselves, should they feel so inclined (some already have, and they do not necessarily agree with yours). This being so, neither I nor they need your third-party opinion of what their assessments might be. > Luckily, there are people who will refuse to allow > them to be archived as stand-alone statements; when > people go searhing the mailing list archives for > threads, they will find followups, like this one, > which shows your post for what it is. Follow-ups like yours only underscore the calm rationality of my own posts, so feel free. It's much easier to support my points when others are doing it for me. > (*) Conditionalized -- therefore not ad hominim ... Ad hominem is any attack against the person, rather than the opinion. "You are a moron" is thus always ad hominem. I suggest you try to control your emotions rather than struggle to justify their expression after the fact, as the latter only undermines any support you may have for your position. > ... if you chose to trigger the condition, you're > the one calling yourself names And if a woman chooses to trigger rape by dressing provocatively, that's her problem ... right? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 4:23:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2D837B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:23:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2601543E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAOCNc998639 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:23:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <038c01c293b4$51132240$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <200211232029.gANKTOs50088@flip.jhs.private> <02d701c29337$08749e60$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <20021123234508.GF11676@over-yonder.net> <032101c29357$0aa68c00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE072A1.5AEE4772@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:23:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > Most people use Windows because that's what > came with the machine, and they had no choice > in the matter. Many larger users choose Windows explicitly. > Why don't you Microsofties fight against Linux > instead of FreeBSD? I don't work for Microsoft. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 4:26: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7E837B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8958C43E6E for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAOCQ0998662 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:26:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <039901c293b4$a5eaa590$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDFB2EF.19129.5E88EE4@localhost> <032801c29357$72507af0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE0731D.594FD3AE@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:26:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > Both Outlook Express and the full edition share > a number of bugs. That does not mean that they share the same code. > One would expect them to have different bugs, > if they were truly different (which they are not: > they share code). No. They might well share the same bugs if they were written to perform the same tasks, too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 4:29:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F14337B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810F043E88 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAOCTE998689 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:29:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <03a001c293b5$19807d90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00E4A.1B6A0D8A@mindspring.com> <031001c29356$4b383300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE06EEF.F321ECDA@mindspring.com> <037c01c293b0$8dabaa00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE0C075.B77B1A0D@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:29:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > 1995/1996. They wrote the Microsoft Mail client > which was renamed "Outlook", on contract. A lot of clients were renamed Outlook. There was one for Windows 95, one for Exchange Server, and one for Office. Which one did they write? I don't recall ever hearing their name. > I would only expect you to have heard of them > if you knew as much about the code contained > in Microsoft products as you appeared to be > claiming you did ... Either they did not write the clients you claim, or they wrote clients that I did not support (such as the Office or Windows 95 clients). As far as I know, the MXS client, like all of MXS (almost) was written in Redmond. > ... when you incorrectly stated that Outlook and > Outlook Express do not share code. Which code do they share? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 4:46:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3987D37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 93FF243E6E for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 04:46:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 26214 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 12:46:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amd760.piwebs.com) (192.168.0.105) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 12:46:42 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Arjan van Leeuwen Subject: Fwd: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:46:32 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200211241346.32803.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sending this message again, because it seems like it didn't really ar= rive.=20 Please, don't respond to Anthony anymore (at least not on _this_ list), a= nd=20 Anthony, please take the discussion to freebsd-chat. Arjan ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:29:17 +0100 From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: "Anthony Atkielski" , "FreeBSD Advocac= y"=20 Although I am tempted to reply to Anthony's many emails, I won't, because= the other messages have already made clear to me that Anthony doesn't seem to= be really open towards new solutions or arguments. As this discussion doesn't look like advocacy to me _at all_, I suggest Anthony and everyone else who'd like to reply to him move this discussion= to the freebsd-chat mailing list. Thank you. On Saturday 23 November 2002 15:08, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Ceri writes: > > Everybody here cares (except you). > > But everybody here is part of a small minority of geeks; we are not > representative of typical computer users. > > > By not formatting your email with respect to > > it's targeted audience, you are displaying > > rudeness, in much the same way as posting > > private email to the list is (especially when > > you refuse to apologize, even after being told > > that it's not the done thing). > > Worrying about the details of e-mail formatting is precisely the type o= f > geek behavior to which I've alluded. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 6:24:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B854437B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fep2.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C0343E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlavigne6@cogeco.ca) Received: from d226-42-146.home.cgocable.net (d226-42-146.home.cgocable.net [24.226.42.146]) by fep2.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448337F66 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:24:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:26:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dru X-X-Sender: dlavigne6@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: live CD? Message-ID: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone seen the live Linux demo CD yet? http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html How feasible would it be to make one of these for FreeBSD? It's a great idea to be able to demo something without installing, for those who aren't sure if they're ready to take the plunge... I'm not a programmer so I have no idea how hard it would be or how long it would take to create such a beast. But I could write up a nice article promoting it :) Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 6:32:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 973A737B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7583843E91 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 06:32:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 26637 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 14:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amd760.piwebs.com) (192.168.0.105) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 14:32:31 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: Dru , advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: live CD? Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:32:22 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> In-Reply-To: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200211241532.22016.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's also a NetBSD live CD, I got one at EuroBSDCon. It's great for de= mo=20 purposes indeed... Arjan On Sunday 24 November 2002 15:26, Dru wrote: > Has anyone seen the live Linux demo CD yet? > > http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html > > How feasible would it be to make one of these for FreeBSD? It's a great > idea to be able to demo something without installing, for those who are= n't > sure if they're ready to take the plunge... > > I'm not a programmer so I have no idea how hard it would be or how long= it > would take to create such a beast. But I could write up a nice article > promoting it :) > > Dru > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 11:55:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC7737B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from canada1.dnshotel.com (canada1.dnshotel.com [66.227.26.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B5543E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ganesh@rapidtech.bc.ca) Received: from h24-207-54-228.dlt.dccnet.com ([24.207.54.228] helo=ganesh.gslabs) by canada1.dnshotel.com with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.36 #1) id 18G2qD-0004gN-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:54:54 -0500 Received: from ganesh by ganesh.gslabs with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FpwO-000Gns-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 22:08:24 -0800 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 22:08:24 -0800 From: Ganesh Swami To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: live CD? Message-ID: <20021124060824.GE44501@ganesh.gslabs> References: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - canada1.dnshotel.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - rapidtech.bc.ca Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dru wanted us to know: > Has anyone seen the live Linux demo CD yet? > > http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html > > How feasible would it be to make one of these for FreeBSD? It's a great > idea to be able to demo something without installing, for those who aren't > sure if they're ready to take the plunge... This would be kick-ass. Lots of people dont really want to nuke their exisiting stuff. My experience with FreeBSD 4.7-R has been "awesome", to say the least. I bet laziness is the only blockage to world domination. ;-) > > I'm not a programmer so I have no idea how hard it would be or how long it > would take to create such a beast. But I could write up a nice article > promoting it :) Me too. :) > > Dru -- Ganesh -- : _ /~\'_ (o o) =====oooO==U==Oooo================[Ganesh Swami]========== To define recursion, we must first define recursion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 12:12:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C0837B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (pc-80-194-99-103-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [80.194.99.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90AC643E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@crf-consulting.co.uk) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (clan.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.20]) by crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gAOKCeTk075985; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:12:40 GMT (envelope-from nik@catkin) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gAOKCe2x091845; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:12:40 GMT (envelope-from nik@clan.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id gAOKCeQZ091844; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:12:40 GMT Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:12:40 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Ganesh Swami Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: live CD? Message-ID: <20021124201240.GC91754@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> <20021124060824.GE44501@ganesh.gslabs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021124060824.GE44501@ganesh.gslabs> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 10:08:24PM -0800, Ganesh Swami wrote: > Dru wanted us to know: >=20 > > Has anyone seen the live Linux demo CD yet? > >=20 > > http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html > >=20 > > How feasible would it be to make one of these for FreeBSD? It's a great > > idea to be able to demo something without installing, for those who are= n't > > sure if they're ready to take the plunge... >=20 > This would be kick-ass. Lots of people dont really want to nuke their > exisiting stuff. http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/livecd Should tell you everything you need to know. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE94TK3k6gHZCw343URArUOAJ4on9kpPb/fbcG9Jhqv8OttEp5zlgCcCoOf lZJ65iSqqYxZ5DepmkAvMag= =V41t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 12:27:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAA037B401; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fep1.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D548643E6E; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlavigne6@cogeco.ca) Received: from d226-42-146.home.cgocable.net (d226-42-146.home.cgocable.net [24.226.42.146]) by fep1.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59001A36D; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:27:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:29:39 -0500 (EST) From: Dru X-X-Sender: dlavigne6@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca To: Nik Clayton Cc: Ganesh Swami , Subject: Re: live CD? In-Reply-To: <20021124201240.GC91754@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: <20021124152515.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 10:08:24PM -0800, Ganesh Swami wrote: > > Dru wanted us to know: > > > > > Has anyone seen the live Linux demo CD yet? > > > > > > http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html > > > > > > How feasible would it be to make one of these for FreeBSD? It's a great > > > idea to be able to demo something without installing, for those who aren't > > > sure if they're ready to take the plunge... > > > > This would be kick-ass. Lots of people dont really want to nuke their > > exisiting stuff. > > http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/livecd > > Should tell you everything you need to know. Great. I'll take a close look and try it out myself when my schedule loosens up over Xmas. If it's any good, I'll definitely do an article. Has anybody tried these CDs out yet? Are we making and giving out these CDs at BSD trade shows and such? Do we have a centralized distribution system for such give aways? Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 14:56:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DA637B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from parati.mdbrasil.com.br (parati.mdbrasil.com.br [200.210.70.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1040B43EA3 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:56:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eksffa@FreeBSDBrasil.com.br) Received: (qmail 79163 invoked by uid 85); 24 Nov 2002 22:56:10 -0000 Received: from eksffa@FreeBSDBrasil.com.br by parati.mdbrasil.com.br with qmail-scanner-1.03 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4181. . Clean. Processed in 0.137941 secs); 24 Nov 2002 22:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO coremail) (200.210.70.4) by parati.mdbrasil.com.br with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 22:56:09 -0000 Received: from client 200.210.42.5 for UebiMiau (webmail client); Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:56:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:56:09 -0000 From: Patrick Tracanelli To: Dru Cc: Reply-To: Patrick Tracanelli Subject: Re: live CD? X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: coremail 1.8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MSMail-Priority: Medium Importance: Medium Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20021124225647.1040B43EA3@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The main goal behind the idea of the LiveCD project is to allow any user to build their own custom LiveCD. A FreeBSD System that may run directly from the CD, with anything the user might add to it. Actually the idea was to maintain a Live rescue disk that sometimes could be more flexible than the "live cd" that comes out w/ the freebsd set of CDs. When it started, there was 2 official live ISO images, one running a small set of tools, to be used as rescue disk, and a bigger one, running X and a sort of graphical applications plus firewall, bridging, routing and some features more. It was intended to be such a demonstration CD. In fact we (in brazil) distributed it before, as a demo cd in some opensource events. In particular i gave some versions of it to a number of students at my university. But since the "tool set" was released we stopped maintaining a demo cd, since the users now had a way to do it themselves. An ancient version of it may be found at ftp://ftp3.br.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-LiveCD/ while the most recent files are at http://livecd.sourceforge.net/download.php About its usage worldwide, there are users from many places in the globe registered at the projects' mailing list. Some are also contributors, but i believe most of them use it as rescue disk and batch instalation mode. If you think a more flexible demo CD worths, we may discuss a set of applications to add and create a more recent one. --------- Mensagem Original -------- De: "Dru" Para: "Nik Clayton" Cópia: "Ganesh Swami" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Assunto: Re: live CD? Data: 24/11/02 20:27 [cut] > > http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/livecd > > Should tell you everything you need to know. Great. I'll take a close look and try it out myself when my schedule loosens up over Xmas. If it's any good, I'll definitely do an article. Has anybody tried these CDs out yet? Are we making and giving out these CDs at BSD trade shows and such? Do we have a centralized distribution system for such give aways? Dru __________________________________________________ http://www.freebsdbrasil.com.br/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 16:31:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8DD37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED14543E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0378.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.123] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18G79a-0006Ze-00; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:31:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:29:51 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Terry writes: > > Blind, unreasoning support of it by morons > > who have bought into the idea that "What's > > good for Microsoft, is good for America"? > > Quite the opposite. As a mainstream operating system, Windows is used and > endorsed by many people with no emotional investment in their choice of > operating system. Name one of these people without an emotional investment in their choice of operating system, who would not want to save $100 off the price of a new computer. > Most see it as a tool that matches requirements. When > their relative calm and objectivity is compared to the frothing emotion of > advocates of many other operating systems, the prudent choice (for those who > are likewise uninvolved emotionally) is clear. "Whatever cheaper". Operating systems are a commodity, like telephone long distance service or cell phone provider, or the company you buy your computer from: whoever is cheaper. > > You are a paid troll. > > Who is paying me? I expect that it's Microsoft, through a cutout company. Your presence on this list is like clockwork: during the time that college would be in session, you are here, and during college break, you are not. I rather expect I could identify your location by performing a traffic analysis, and comparing it with University schedules. [ ... lots of blather ... ] So why *are* you here, if you aren't being paid to be here, as you claim? Why do you persist in advocating Windows in a forum which is not intended for that purpose? What is your payback for the effort you are expending, if it is not in $? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 16:32:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A9137B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7102743EAF for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0378.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.123] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18G7Ae-0007l6-00; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:32:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE16F41.AB135ECE@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:30:57 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) References: <200211232029.gANKTOs50088@flip.jhs.private> <02d701c29337$08749e60$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <20021123234508.GF11676@over-yonder.net> <032101c29357$0aa68c00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE072A1.5AEE4772@mindspring.com> <038c01c293b4$51132240$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Terry writes: > > > Most people use Windows because that's what > > came with the machine, and they had no choice > > in the matter. > > Many larger users choose Windows explicitly. Name three. > > Why don't you Microsofties fight against Linux > > instead of FreeBSD? > > I don't work for Microsoft. Then why are you advocating Microsoft products in violation of the charter of this mailing list? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 16:35:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103B237B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C2E43EA9 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:35:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0378.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.123] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18G7E4-0003mA-00; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:35:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE17016.F653E3C9@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:34:30 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) References: <3DDFB2EF.19129.5E88EE4@localhost> <032801c29357$72507af0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE0731D.594FD3AE@mindspring.com> <039901c293b4$a5eaa590$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Terry writes: > > Both Outlook Express and the full edition share > > a number of bugs. > > That does not mean that they share the same code. So it's you argument that they do not use the same runtime libraries? What about the SMTP client engine, or the POP3 client engine code? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 16:40: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B5237B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B1543EAF for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:40:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0378.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.123] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18G7IA-0000Xo-00; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:40:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE17114.D6B9F91D@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:38:44 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00E4A.1B6A0D8A@mindspring.com> <031001c29356$4b383300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE06EEF.F321ECDA@mindspring.com> <037c01c293b0$8dabaa00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE0C075.B77B1A0D@mindspring.com> <03a001c293b5$19807d90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Terry writes: > > 1995/1996. They wrote the Microsoft Mail client > > which was renamed "Outlook", on contract. > > A lot of clients were renamed Outlook. There was one for Windows 95, one > for Exchange Server, and one for Office. Which one did they write? I don't > recall ever hearing their name. Since you claim you are not a Microsoft employee, why is your ignorance of the facts surrounding the implementation details of a Microsoft product, which is only released in binary form, worth anything at all? > Either they did not write the clients you claim, or they wrote clients that > I did not support (such as the Office or Windows 95 clients). As far as I > know, the MXS client, like all of MXS (almost) was written in Redmond. How do you know this? > > ... when you incorrectly stated that Outlook and > > Outlook Express do not share code. > > Which code do they share? Minimally, the RFC822 encoder, the MIME encoder, the SMTP client code, and the address book list and list insertion code. Since you "aren't employed by Microsoft", the only thing you can personally know about the mail clients is their UI, and not the implementation details, right? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 16:49:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34E537B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:49:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E2043E6E for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0378.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.123] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18G7R9-000385-00; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:49:19 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE17341.F3C967A4@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:48:01 -0800 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arjan van Leeuwen Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: The Anthony Atkielski problem References: <200211241346.32803.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > I'm sending this message again, because it seems like it didn't really arrive. > Please, don't respond to Anthony anymore (at least not on _this_ list), and > Anthony, please take the discussion to freebsd-chat. Not responding to Anthony will give him what he wants. It will pollute the -advocacy archives with his anti-FreeBSD propaganda, such that anyone searching them will find his posts to be (apparently, due to his header-munging practices) the start of a thread which tells people to not use FreeBSD on the desktop, even if it's appropriate for them. Unless his posting to the list is barred, or the archive records of his further posting in violation of this request are expunged, he wins. In addition, Anthony has also stated his practice of retyping the list name over top of the normal reply address, which is how he has several times ended up posting portions of private email to the mailing list. Given this practice, all attempts to redirect the discussion to -chat or another list will fail, since he will merely type in "advocacy@freebsd.org", and continue the post. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 17:47:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A64B37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDBA43E3B for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:47:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP1lF904850 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:47:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:47:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > Name one of these people without an emotional > investment in their choice of operating system, > who would not want to save $100 off the price > of a new computer. Almost everyone I know with a computer is in this category. > "Whatever cheaper". Operating systems are a > commodity, like telephone long distance service > or cell phone provider, or the company you buy > your computer from: whoever is cheaper. Unfortunately, this is not true. Operating systems determine the personality of a computer and the choice of applications that will run upon it. Unless one has specific applications in mind and one knows that they will or must run on a specific OS, the best choice of OS is the one that will run the widest variety of applications, thus minimizing the likelihood that one will be obliged to change operating systems in order to install new applications in the future. For the desktop, the OS that best meets this criterion is Windows. For servers, UNIX is the best choice. > I expect that it's Microsoft, through a > cutout company. You expect? You don't know? > Your presence on this list is like clockwork: > during the time that college would be in session, > you are here, and during college break, you are not. Coincidence. > I rather expect I could identify your location > by performing a traffic analysis, and comparing > it with University schedules. Why not just look at the IP address? You may be surprised. Or easier still, why not just ask? > So why *are* you here, if you aren't being > paid to be here, as you claim? Because I'm interested in the FreeBSD operating system, and I think it is a good choice for servers. > Why do you persist in advocating Windows in > a forum which is not intended for that purpose? I don't. But I do keep things in perspective. FreeBSD is not ideal for every purpose, and it is especially not ideal for the desktop. So when over-zealous advocates of FreeBSD try to claim otherwise, I offer an alternative viewpoint, for the sake of lurkers. > What is your payback for the effort you are > expending, if it is not in $? I know that it helps people make reasoned decisions on which operating system to use. It helps cut through the noise created by the fanatics who seem to predominate in cyberspace. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 17:49:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071A737B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B809C43E9C for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP1nG904863 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:49:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <044001c29424$dd1c5430$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <200211232029.gANKTOs50088@flip.jhs.private> <02d701c29337$08749e60$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <20021123234508.GF11676@over-yonder.net> <032101c29357$0aa68c00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE072A1.5AEE4772@mindspring.com> <038c01c293b4$51132240$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16F41.AB135ECE@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:49:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > Name three. I prefer not to name large customers without their authorization. No doubt you can find a few by searching on Microsoft's site, however, since I'm sure they have some case studies published. > Then why are you advocating Microsoft products > in violation of the charter of this mailing list? I'm not. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 17:51: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44AB737B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:50:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23C543E88 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:50:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP1ou904879 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:50:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <044501c29425$18ce9dd0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDFB2EF.19129.5E88EE4@localhost> <032801c29357$72507af0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE0731D.594FD3AE@mindspring.com> <039901c293b4$a5eaa590$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE17016.F653E3C9@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:50:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > So it's you argument that they do not use > the same runtime libraries? I'm sure there is much commonality in runtime libraries; anything that runs under Windows necessarily shares a great deal of shared runtime code. However, the base modules are not the same. > What about the SMTP client engine, or the POP3 > client engine code? What client-engine code? In Outlook, at least, a separate provider handles interaction with outside mail servers, not the base client code itself. In OE, I imagine the code is specific to that product, although I don't recall looking at it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 17:54:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B7637B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:54:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46D143E3B for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:54:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP1sA904902 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:54:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <044a01c29425$8c50edd0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00E4A.1B6A0D8A@mindspring.com> <031001c29356$4b383300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE06EEF.F321ECDA@mindspring.com> <037c01c293b0$8dabaa00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE0C075.B77B1A0D@mindspring.com> <03a001c293b5$19807d90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE17114.D6B9F91D@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:54:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry writes: > Since you claim you are not a Microsoft employee, > why is your ignorance of the facts surrounding > the implementation details of a Microsoft product, > which is only released in binary form, worth > anything at all? My _ignorance_ of facts isn't worth anything; however, I'm not ignorant in this case. I supported Microsoft e-mail products for years, and I read the source code (well, part of it). > How do you know this? I supported Microsoft's e-mail products for years. > Minimally, the RFC822 encoder, the MIME encoder, > the SMTP client code, and the address book list > and list insertion code. That is indeed minimal. I cannot confirm or deny, as I don't remember, and I don't have access to that information now. But I don't recall it being written by anyone outside. > Since you "aren't employed by Microsoft", the > only thing you can personally know about the mail > clients is their UI, and not the implementation > details, right? No. There are other possibilities. Ponder on that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 18:15:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6840537B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fep3.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A7843E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:15:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dlavigne6@cogeco.ca) Received: from d226-42-146.home.cgocable.net (d226-42-146.home.cgocable.net [24.226.42.146]) by fep3.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E9DA23F2; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:15:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:17:11 -0500 (EST) From: Dru X-X-Sender: dlavigne6@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca To: Patrick Tracanelli Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: live CD? In-Reply-To: <20021124225644.AE585938E@fep6.cogeco.net> Message-ID: <20021124211326.E209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Patrick Tracanelli wrote: > The main goal behind the idea of the LiveCD project is to allow any user to > build their own custom LiveCD. A FreeBSD System that may run directly from > the CD, with anything the user might add to it. > > Actually the idea was to maintain a Live rescue disk that sometimes could be > more flexible than the "live cd" that comes out w/ the freebsd set of CDs. > > When it started, there was 2 official live ISO images, one running a small > set of tools, to be used as rescue disk, and a bigger one, running X and a > sort of graphical applications plus firewall, bridging, routing and some > features more. It was intended to be such a demonstration CD. > > In fact we (in brazil) distributed it before, as a demo cd in some > opensource events. In particular i gave some versions of it to a number of > students at my university. > > But since the "tool set" was released we stopped maintaining a demo cd, > since the users now had a way to do it themselves. > > An ancient version of it may be found at > ftp://ftp3.br.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-LiveCD/ > > while the most recent files are at > http://livecd.sourceforge.net/download.php > > About its usage worldwide, there are users from many places in the globe > registered at the projects' mailing list. Some are also contributors, but i > believe most of them use it as rescue disk and batch instalation mode. > > If you think a more flexible demo CD worths, we may discuss a set of > applications to add and create a more recent one. Sounds like a great advocacy tool to me. Especially if it included a cool looking desktop (is that possible on a demo CD?) I get tired of the old line, I thought BSD only made a good server... What do the rest of you advocatees think? Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 18:37:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468D737B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E15443E9C for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:37:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP2bF905629 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 03:37:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <046501c2942b$9185ba00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE18817.4030201@josephguhlin.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 03:37:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph writes: > Why do I choose FreeBSD? It's free, much more > stable, and much more customizable. I'll agree on all three points, except the second point with respect to desktop use. I did not find FreeBSD to be particularly stable when configured to imitate a typical GUI desktop; so much code with so many hooks in the OS is required to accomplish that that the OS is inevitably destabilized as a result. Given that one cannot really have a GUI desktop _without_ this very extensive tweaking of the OS, I finally gave up on the experiment and returned to Windows. In other respects I am in full agreement. It wasn't absolutely free for me, but it only cost $10 or so, as I recall, which is pretty much the same as free (worth the money in exchange for a prepressed CD instead of trying to download it and burn my own). The stability is impressive, as I never see any problem at all with my server; it just runs. It's nice to be able to change and restart many things without a reboot, too. And it's nice to have access to source in case I want to customize something (and the nature of UNIX is such that source is readily understandable and easy to modify ... unlike the C++ MFC garbage that one must wade through to deal with most modern Windows applications). > It suits my needs, tastes, and runs everything > I need, which Windows does equally well. IF FreeBSD ran everything I need, I'd be far more willing to consider it on the desktop. However, out of 100 applications or so that I use regularly, virtually none exist in a UNIX version. > I am a web developer/web programmer who needs > IIS or Apache, PHP, MySQL, and a text editor. > Perl is good too, and on rare ocassions a > C/C++/Obj-C compiler. I don't do the actual text editing on my FreeBSD system, but it does all the Apache, Perl and other server stuff. I use it to prototype for my production Web site, which also runs under FreeBSD. > "minimizing the likelihood that one will be > obliged to change operating systems in order > to install new applications in the future." is > not a good reason to choose an operating system > in my opinion. It is when you have no idea what you'll be using the computer for in the future ... which is the case for most casual computer users. > The right tool for the right job is my opinion. If you don't know what job you want to do, however, it's best to think broadly. > Just because you want to try out some specific > piece of software is no reason to switch > oerating systems. That's another reason why my desktops are still Windows. Windows XP was enough of a headache to install--and I still have a great many desktop applications running on the older Windows NT system, simply because I saw no reason to move them. I did abandon IIS, however, except for interfacing with VisualDev (which I use for text editing of HTML and source code). I ran Apache on NT for a while, and it works well enough. However, when I installed FreeBSD, I moved all the Web server stuff over to FreeBSD, which to me seemed like the best "native" environment for that sort of thing. > That's no reason to limit it to servers. As I said above, I tried the desktop, and gave up pretty quickly. If I had no actual work to do on my machines, and I just could sit around idly trying to make a UNIX desktop work as well as a Windows desktop, perhaps that would be different. But I do have real work to do, so I can't afford to goof around for weeks or months at a time just to prove some obscure ideological point. FreeBSD isn't suitable for the desktop. No flavor of UNIX is suitable for the desktop, except perhaps Mac OS X, and that has been so dramatically modified from a normal UNIX system that I don't really count it anymore. > The US may be not trying to stop that but > the EU is. One wonders exactly what the EU thinks would replace Windows. > Many other people have complaints too, just > try google.com It is the nature of human beings to complain loudly, but to be contented in silence. > Remember what I told you about this list and > ponder on that. If the list were really as you say, it would serve no useful purpose. What good is a list where people who agree entirely with each other come to pat each other on the back? Isn't the idea behind advocacy to persuade _other_ people to use the OS? > You can not convince us to give up FreeBSD > on the desktop ... I've never suggested that anyone give up FreeBSD on the desktop. > There is obviously much backlash against you ... Most people have a very low tolerance for the expression of opinions different from their own, especially when they cannot effectively justify or defend their own opinions. That doesn't mean that anyone with a different opinion should be silenced or exiled. > We are all convinced you are quite stubborn and > will not listen to our reasons nor leave this list. Whereas everyone else here is supremely open-minded and more than willing to consider all viewpoints, eh? > Prove us wrong and move on, continue having your > opinions, we respect that, but do not try to > force them on others. Expressing an opinion is not _forcing_ it upon anyone. > Are you simply stubborn and unable to listen > to reason? Hmm. > Or will you bother us no more, speaking arguments > that fall on deaf ears? Wouldn't it be more productive to correct the deafness? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 18:54:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9ADF37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:54:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAFBA43E91 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.236.22] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id A04396E500C6; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:51:47 -0600 Message-ID: <02f601c2942d$75ec1300$16ec910c@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Anthony Atkielski" , "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE18817.4030201@josephguhlin.com> <046501c2942b$9185ba00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:50:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) >Isn't the idea behind advocacy to persuade _other_ >people to use the OS? Perhaps the idea behind "advocacy," but the idea behind "-advocacy" is for us 'zealots' to discuss how best to accomplish our 'advocacy' ideals....hence the reason you've been asked, probably more than once, to drop your habit of posting here in order to improve the SNR...... You have the right to use whatever OS you want for whatever purpose you want, within the terms of its license. I suppose you also have the right to complain bitterly whenever you grok the words "FreeBSD" and "desktop" in the same posting, but I, for one, am well aware of your position on the subject and am quite ready for the exchange to end. You're obviously quite talented at many things, why not use your expertise to help folks on -newbies, or -questions, or perhaps even better, put some more articles on your own site? There are not many 'lurkers' here, as you seem to think....I think most everyone is just hiding in a corner muttering about troll feed.... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 19: 8:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C9C37B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFE3D43E6E for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP38f905858 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 04:08:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <047401c2942f$f5901730$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE18817.4030201@josephguhlin.com> <046501c2942b$9185ba00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <02f601c2942d$75ec1300$16ec910c@DaleCoportable> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 04:08:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kevin writes: > Perhaps the idea behind "advocacy," but the idea > behind "-advocacy" is for us 'zealots' to discuss > how best to accomplish our 'advocacy' ideals... And how do you do that if the arguments in favor of competing operating systems cannot be discussed? Do you just wing it or bluff when you face a customer who is trying to decide between the two, given that you've avoided ever facing the questions yourself? Do you fume and pant and rage against the customer, insisting that he MUST NOT consider the product of the evil Microsoft empire, and threaten to silence him if he persists in questioning your uncondtional recommendation of FreeBSD by personal fiat? Just what do the "zealots" do to spread the word, anyway? It seems that they refuse to face the "enemy." Most good sales and marketing organizations study and examine the competition in as much detail as possible, so as to be prepared when the inevitable questions arise. What are the FreeBSD zealots doing to prepare, in their secret, isolated compound? > You're obviously quite talented at many > things, why not use your expertise to help folks > on -newbies, or -questions, or perhaps even better, > put some more articles on your own site? I get the same reactions on the other lists. The fact is, nobody wants to hear even a hint of a dissenting viewpoint on anything. No wonder people without a preexisting bias just glance at the product and write it off. It's not as bad as the Linux or Mac zealotry often gets, but it's still bad enough to work against the promotion of FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 20:10:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA54F37B401; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6094443E4A; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 391ED51906; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:30:50 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:30:50 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , FreeBSD Core Team Subject: Enough already! (was: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail)) Message-ID: <20021125040050.GA41068@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 25 November 2002 at 2:47:16 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Terry writes: > >> "Whatever cheaper". Operating systems are a commodity, like >> telephone long distance service or cell phone provider, or the >> company you buy your computer from: whoever is cheaper. > > Unfortunately, this is not true. Operating systems determine the > personality of a computer and the choice of applications that will > run upon it. Unless one has specific applications in mind and one > knows that they will or must run on a specific OS, the best choice > of OS is the one that will run the widest variety of applications, > thus minimizing the likelihood that one will be obliged to change > operating systems in order to install new applications in the > future. Anthony, in the last couple of days we've had approximately 70 messages of this nature from you. The FreeBSD project maintains mailing lists for specific purposes, and the charters determine what is on topic and what is not. As others have commented, your messages, including this one, are generally off-topic. I've asked you in private to tone it down, and your reply suggests that you have no intention of complying. Please stop, or we will have to take measures to stop you. It's true that you're not the only one contributing to this thread from hell. To the rest of you, if you think he's a troll, remember: trolls need feeding. Don't feed him, and he might go away. And you, too, have an obligation to stay on topic. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 20:25: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943D937B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C8043EBE for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:24:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP4Oo906384 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:24:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <048101c2943a$985ab290$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE18817.4030201@josephguhlin.com> <046501c2942b$9185ba00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE198C5.3080103@josephguhlin.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:24:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph writes: > It took me mere minutes to do it, but I was > coming from Windows 3.1 and DOS. Anything is an improvement over Windows 3.1 and DOS. > Now with the new features of the new version > of X, combined with the port system, it is only > some minor text editing and general knowledge > to get it all to work. Can I now run X at securelevel=3, then? > Whereas if I had no actual work to do on my > machines, I could just sit around idly trying > to stabilize Windows and constantly re-build the > errors it comes with, trying to secure it. The NT-based versions of Windows are neither unstable nor insecure. The kiddie versions of Windows (9x et al.) are both, although they've improved a lot over the years. All operating systems are stable if you don't really use them, however. And most lose stability if you try to do too much with them. > "FreeBSD isn't suitable for the desktop." You're > making an incorrect statement and asserting it > as a fact. The statement is neither correct nor incorrect; it is just an opinion, after all. However, for the average user, I think it is an entirely valid statement. > Considering I could simply install, and be up > and running a desktop with FreeBSD in 10 minutes > where as Windows would still be installing is > enough reason to invalidate your first statement ... Windows was preinstalled on the last machine I bought. It booted immediately as soon as I turned on the machine. > Who knows? BE was quite wonderful. That's what fans of Be say, certainly. I never even saw the OS, however, so I cannot say. > But with a monopoly, even the opportunity to > compete does not exist. Nobody has a real monopoly on operating systems. Some are more widely used than others, however. > As we have seen since Microsoft destroyed OS/2, > and perhaps some others I am not familiar with. Microsoft didn't destroy OS/2--it didn't need to. IBM destroyed OS/2. In the distant, misty past, Windows NT was supposed to be OS/2. IBM insisted on a command-line interface similar to that of MS-DOS, though, whereas Microsoft felt that a GUI was the future of desktop computing. As a result, MS and IBM parted ways, and MS went on to build NT, while IBM continued with OS/2 development. It turned out that Microsoft's decision was right, and IBM's decision was wrong, and ultimately Windows overran OS/2. But there was no "destruction" of anything. > Not on this list. As someone has already mentioned, > this list is for planning. Planning without any discussion of the competition? Hmm. I wonder who would have won World War II if the Allies had planned without ever discussing or examining Germany or Japan. > "FreeBSD isn't suitable for the desktop. No flavor > of UNIX is suitable for the desktop..." > Yes you did, see above. Reading that sentence, I don't see the words "FreeBSD desktop users should give up that OS for desktop use" anywhere. > No, but it is incorrect to preach the Christian > faith in a synagogue ... Ah ... so it is a question of religion, and not rational discussion? How many converts do you hope to find for your religion, when the competition is depending on logic and reason instead? > You're speaking somewhere that no one cares to > hear you. My voice probably doesn't carry very well to the top of the ivory tower. > You are not listening to reason ... You just compared FreeBSD advocacy to religion. Who isn't listening to reason? > ... and trying to make yourself seem important > and victimized by saying that we are trying to > silence you because you have a different opinion. Neither, actually. But I see much hypocrisy in what I am reading here. The proselytizers denying they are religious, the intolerant denying their narrow-mindedness. I'm sure this makes all of you feel very comfortable, but at least know this: You are not going to be putting FreeBSD in more desktops and servers by blindly preaching your faith in the OS as a religious experience rather than a logical conclusion based on sound reasoning from acceptable premises. > Considering the nature of this list, us trying > to silence you, however, is perfectly allowed. Of course. But how many new users of FreeBSD will you win by excluding anyone who isn't already a true and unconditional believer in FreeBSD? > There are other places you could speak your > opinion, this is perhaps the most useless place > to speak your opinion. Given the mindset I am seeing, I tend to agree at least partially. But not everyone who is vocal represents the majority. > See, now you are claiming we have small minds. You advocate censorship and suppression of opposing viewpoints. You draw parallels between FreeBSD advocacy and religious faith. I don't see how either of these could be interpreted as open-mindedness. > This is the usual defense tactic, or as the > Linux community calls it, FUD. Indeed? Does the Linux community claim to have invented the term, too? > As I mentioned before, you are in the wrong > area to be discussing this. Maybe ... but one never knows whom one will reach even when the situation seems hopeless. > Constantly re-expressing an opinion is. No, it is not. Subsequent expressions are no more forcing an opinion than the first. > Distorting facts is. I haven't distorted any facts. > Or would it be more productive to let the people > who wish to focus on the Advocacy of FreeBSD > to focus on the Advocacy of FreeBSD ... There isn't any advocacy of FreeBSD when one denies everything else. It's an amazing viewpoint, actually. Why imagine Microsoft conspiracies when you are so effective at shooting yourselves in the feet already? With attitudes such as those I'm seeing here, you don't need enemies. > ... instead of distorting facts ... Which facts have I distorted? > ... telling things that they do not care to hear ... There is much significance in this. > ... or acting as a child and being quite stubborn. Isn't not caring to hear something one of the most common ways in which children are stubborn? > If I can run FreeBSD as a desktop without a > problem, and my ex-roomates who had not used even > Windows use FreeBSD as a desktop without a problem, > then FreeBSD is suitable for the Desktop. For you, but not for everyone, and certainly not for the majority of computer users. > The average user is less confused by the FreeBSD > login prompt than booting up a computer for the > first time and finding "ILLEGAL EXECUTION" along > with a variety of other non-useful information. I've never seen a computer display "ILLEGAL EXECUTION" when booting up for the first time. And I don't know anyone outside the IT industry who would find a FreeBSD login prompt less confusing than a Windows desktop. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 20:32:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4612037B401; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:32:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.atkielski.com (ASt-Lambert-101-2-1-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.59.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E43143EA3; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:32:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Received: from contactdish (contactdish.atkielski.com [10.0.0.10]) by freebie.atkielski.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gAP4WI906454; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:32:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from anthony@freebie.atkielski.com) Message-ID: <048a01c2943b$a35456f0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> From: "Anthony Atkielski" To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" , "FreeBSD Core Team" References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <20021125040050.GA41068@wantadilla.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Enough already! (was: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail)) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:32:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg writes: > Anthony, in the last couple of days we've had > approximately 70 messages of this nature from > you. The FreeBSD project maintains mailing lists > for specific purposes, and the charters determine > what is on topic and what is not. As others have > commented, your messages, including this one, are > generally off-topic. "FreeBSD on the desktop" is off-topic for a FreeBSD advocacy list? I admit that this confuses me. > I've asked you in private to tone it down, and > your reply suggests that you have no intention > of complying. Please stop, or we will have to take > measures to stop you. Do as you wish. However, once you've exercised editorial control over the list, you assume joint and full liability for _every_ post thereon, both archived and continuing. If you remove posts of which you do not approve, then logically any post remaining on the list or in the archive is a post of which you approve. Choose your path carefully. > It's true that you're not the only one contributing > to this thread from hell. And will others contributing be threatened with exile as well? If not, why not? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 20:32:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB01F37B401; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7352C43E88; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from moble.pittgoth.com ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id gAP4WVuB077097; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:32:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:32:57 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" Cc: anthony@freebie.atkielski.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, core@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Enough already! (was: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail)) Message-Id: <20021124233257.263f23f3.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20021125040050.GA41068@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3DDF7691.22726.4FCB4F2@localhost> <02dc01c29338$320168c0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DDFF5A3.10708@mtbiker.net> <02ed01c2933c$e2b7c390$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <20021125040050.GA41068@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:30:50 +1030 "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: > > Anthony, in the last couple of days we've had approximately 70 > messages of this nature from you. The FreeBSD project maintains > mailing lists for specific purposes, and the charters determine what > is on topic and what is not. As others have commented, your messages, > including this one, are generally off-topic. > > I've asked you in private to tone it down, and your reply suggests > that you have no intention of complying. Please stop, or we will > have to take measures to stop you. > > It's true that you're not the only one contributing to this thread > from hell. To the rest of you, if you think he's a troll, remember: > trolls need feeding. Don't feed him, and he might go away. And you, > too, have an obligation to stay on topic. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > Thank YOU! Can someone also inform the list maintainer... PLEASE! Some of us are trying to get some work done... -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Nov 24 21: 6:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C49637B401 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3849043E4A for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-b191.otenet.gr [212.205.244.199]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAP56PYh029605; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:06:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAP56PLP020392; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:06:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gAP56P2I020391; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:06:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:06:25 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Anthony Atkielski Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Message-ID: <20021125050625.GA20154@gothmog.gr> References: <3DE00F41.D5D828E9@mindspring.com> <031c01c29356$7f408300$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE071F3.F7D8CAAA@mindspring.com> <038501c293b4$2a6a6f90$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16EFF.E1E15BFD@mindspring.com> <043901c29424$958a5680$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE18817.4030201@josephguhlin.com> <046501c2942b$9185ba00$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE198C5.3080103@josephguhlin.com> <048101c2943a$985ab290$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <048101c2943a$985ab290$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-11-25 05:24, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > Joseph writes: > > Now with the new features of the new version of X, combined with > > the port system, it is only some minor text editing and general > > knowledge to get it all to work. > > Can I now run X at securelevel=3, then? You always could. You just need to spawn xdm (or similar) before the securelevel is raised. This is *not* something that -advocacy is about though, Anthony. If you have questions, post them on -questions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 6:16:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A6C37B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com (mailout02.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971A143EB2 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:16:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18GK2C-0007GS-07; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:16:24 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.110.4]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18GK1w-0rcGEyC; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:16:08 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAPELlC73902 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAPELbs61138 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200211251421.gAPELbs61138@flip.jhs.private> To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" Subject: Re: Non compliance with list remit. From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd, Munich Unix & System Engineering Consultancy X-Web: http://berklix.com/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 24 Nov 2002 03:58:41 +0100." <200211240258.gAO2wfs54255@flip.jhs.private> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:21:31 +0100 X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ref my: > I have informed postmaster@ that IMO, one person's postings > these last 2 days have distracted us from our objective: > From: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG > >>>> info freebsd-advocacy > FREEBSD-ADVOCACY Furthering the Use of FreeBSD > Share ideas and plan to increase the number of companies and > individuals using FreeBSD > If others also tell postmaster similar, it may help. Better: Please report to postmaster@freebsd.org the name of any troll who should not only be blocked, but archive purged of. Leaving troll junk to pollute our FreeBSD web based email archives, could give added incentive to trolls to excrete more to list & thus archive. Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer & Unix Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 6:35:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AA237B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com (mailout01.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF1143E3B for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18GKKj-00058T-03; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:35:33 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.110.4]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18GKKP-1Nw3d2C; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:35:13 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAPEetC74019 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:40:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAPEejs61534 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:40:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200211251440.gAPEejs61534@flip.jhs.private> To: "FreeBSD Advocacy" Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:40:45 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Anthony Atkielski" wrote: > I don't work for Microsoft. http://www.atkielski.com Section: "FAQs and Essays" Click: "On Software" Scroll to: "Microsoft" ] I have what the Wall Street Journal and the SEC would call a ] "financial interest" in Microsoft Page contains pro Microsoft stuff. No pro FreeBSD & no URL. Just a one sentence, non URL'd mention of Unix & Apache. Please invidually mail postmaster@freebsd.org asking for "Anthony Atkielski" to be removed. Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer & Unix Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 7:47:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7848F37B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B525443E3B for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:47:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisc@daemonnews.org) Received: from daemonnews.org (12-255-22-232.client.attbi.com[12.255.22.232]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2002112515471205100rrhave>; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:47:12 +0000 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:47:17 -0700 Subject: Re: live CD? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v548) Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org To: Dru From: Chris Coleman In-Reply-To: <20021124152515.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> Message-Id: <2D36F6B8-008D-11D7-8151-000393A620A4@daemonnews.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.548) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Has anybody tried these CDs out yet? Are we making and giving out these > CDs at BSD trade shows and such? Do we have a centralized distribution > system for such give aways? > Daemon News goes to 8-10 trade shows a year and we give out lots of FreeBSD CDs. I just got back from ApacheCon and just before that I was at USENIX LISA. We don't currently make the live CD, but I'll definitely look into it. -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 10:43:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87BF537B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF33943EAA for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:43:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H65006LQAO8UE@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:38:48 -0800 Received: from balderdash.acuson.com (dhcp-46-133.acuson.com [157.226.46.133]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id V00LP5Q0; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:40:50 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:43:21 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) In-reply-to: <014201c29296$f9cc4a20$0a00000a@atkielski.com> To: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-id: <200211251043.21811.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021121161453.GA69019_submonkey.net@ns.sol.net> <20021122234047.GB60785@wantadilla.lemis.com> <014201c29296$f9cc4a20$0a00000a@atkielski.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday 22 November 2002 06:21 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > I'd hardly expect to hear anything different on a FreeBSD advocacy list. > There are lots of people at Microsoft who say _exactly_ the same thing > about UNIX as a server ("it would take me several times as long to get > things done if I had to use UNIX" or "UNIX is a toy compared to Windows > 2000"). I've heard plenty of people argue that UNIX is hard to use. But I have *never* heard it called a "toy" in the last twenty years. Of course, I don't work at Microsoft. I have to live out in the real world where that phrase is never uttered. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 11:12:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A9037B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0463143EA9 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:12:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H650064KC0PUE@thor.acuson.com> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:12:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:07:52 -0800 Received: from balderdash.acuson.com (dhcp-46-133.acuson.com [157.226.46.133]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id V00LP6CK; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:09:57 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:12:28 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: Re: live CD? In-reply-to: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: <200211251112.28621.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20021124092139.V209-100000@dhcp-17-14.kico2.on.cogeco.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday 24 November 2002 06:26 am, Dru wrote: > Has anyone seen the live Linux demo CD yet? > > http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html > > How feasible would it be to make one of these for FreeBSD? It's a great > idea to be able to demo something without installing, for those who aren't > sure if they're ready to take the plunge... There already is one. It's the second CD of the set. It's not as flashy as Knoppix, but it works. FreeBSD has had this for a long time. Many Linux distros have had one as well. Knoppix is intended (I believe) as a demonstration CD, rather than a reference filesystem or rescue CD. Thus it has a lot of extra hardware detection and stuff like that. But it isn't significantly different from other live CDs. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 11:30:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E897837B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666D543E88 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H65006SQCUFUV@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:25:43 -0800 Received: from balderdash.acuson.com (dhcp-46-133.acuson.com [157.226.46.133]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id V00LP6NF; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:27:46 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:18 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) In-reply-to: <3DE16F41.AB135ECE@mindspring.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-id: <200211251130.18413.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200211232029.gANKTOs50088@flip.jhs.private> <038c01c293b4$51132240$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DE16F41.AB135ECE@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday 24 November 2002 04:30 pm, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Many larger users choose Windows explicitly. > > Name three. Oops. Bad call. I can name dozens. My company explicitly chose Windows for its UNIX development group. Yes, I live in Dilbertsville... David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 15:19: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09BA37B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C58243E9C for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tyson@stanfordalumni.org) Received: from washdc3-ar2-4-64-222-059.washdc3.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.64.222.59] helo=banana.home) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18GSVC-0003id-00; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:18:54 -0800 From: Don Tyson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org To: "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:40:45 +0100." <200211251440.gAPEejs61534@flip.jhs.private> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:18:52 -0500 Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "Anthony Atkielski" wrote: > > I don't work for Microsoft. > > http://www.atkielski.com > Section: "FAQs and Essays" Click: "On Software" Scroll to: "Microsoft" > ] I have what the Wall Street Journal and the SEC would call a > ] "financial interest" in Microsoft Remove Anthony because he has a financial interest in MS? Remove him from the advocacy list if you want because this thread has gotten out of hand, but please don't establish a "financial interest" requirement for participating in the advocacy list. For that matter, if Bill Gates wants to participate and stays within the charter, what's the problem? Don Tyson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Nov 25 16:24:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA77437B401 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1022143ED8 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:24:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0340.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.85] helo=mindspring.com) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18GTWg-0000Zn-00; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:24:30 -0800 Message-ID: <3DE2BEEC.B4C46703@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:23:08 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Tyson Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Tyson wrote: > > "Anthony Atkielski" wrote: > > > I don't work for Microsoft. > > > > http://www.atkielski.com > > Section: "FAQs and Essays" Click: "On Software" Scroll to: "Microsoft" > > ] I have what the Wall Street Journal and the SEC would call a > > ] "financial interest" in Microsoft > > Remove Anthony because he has a financial interest in > MS? Remove him from the advocacy list if you want > because this thread has gotten out of hand, but please > don't establish a "financial interest" requirement for > participating in the advocacy list. He wasn't. He was speaking to motive for the content of the postings. It's the content that people have found objectionable, specifically the advocacy of Microsoft products on a mailing list intended for meta-discussions on FreeBSD advocacy, and not for particular *acts* of advocacy, and his incentive for such advocacy not being altruistic, as he claimed. The only possible purpose for such postings would be to "get on the record" arguments *against* FreeBSD, in a forum which a search would likely discover postings, when someone went looking for arguments *for* FreeBSD. I think I could get behind a Windows weenie who was a Windows weenie out of genuine altruism; I'd still probably tell them to post their advocacy of Windows to "advocacy@microsoft.com" instead of "advocacy@freebsd.org", though, if they started arguing their position on this list. If I were a "conspiracy theorist", as Anthony claimed, I would actually interpret his postings as a meta-meta attempt to provoke an immune response out of an online community, in order to test boundary conditions for self-assembling communities (an attempt to study us, by someone who wasn't very deft at designing his experiments), and claim that the Anthony identity was merely a cutout (after all, has anyone here ever met him in person?). I'd like to think that, were that the case, I've seriously skewed the data, destroying its utility. He should have started his study of online communities in 1986, when I did, and he'd realize that he's not poking at the interesting parts. 8-) 8-). > For that matter, if Bill Gates wants to participate and > stays within the charter, what's the problem? I'd personally welcome Bill's participation; for one, it'd be a hell of a publicity coup. Front page WSJ stuff... 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Nov 26 6:41:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7870937B401 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout09.sul.t-online.com (mailout09.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E5F43EC2 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:41:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18GguB-0001LR-09; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:41:39 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.117.16]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18Ggtx-1UCbjcC; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:41:25 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAQElDC78821; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:47:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAQEkls71403; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:47:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200211261447.gAQEkls71403@flip.jhs.private> To: Don Tyson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on the desktop (was: TheRegister article on Hotmail) From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd, Munich Unix & System Engineering Consultancy X-Web: http://berklix.com/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:18:52 EST." Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:46:47 +0100 X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Tyson wrote: > > "Anthony Atkielski" wrote: > > > I don't work for Microsoft. > > http://www.atkielski.com > > Section: "FAQs and Essays" Click: "On Software" Scroll to: "Microsoft > " > > ] I have what the Wall Street Journal and the SEC would call a > > ] "financial interest" in Microsoft > Remove Anthony Done. > because he has a financial interest in > MS? No. - Seperate issues. > Remove him from the advocacy list if you want > because this thread has gotten out of hand, Yes > but please > don't establish a "financial interest" requirement for > participating in the advocacy list. No. You mis-understand. I was short as Atkielski merited brevity or less. There were 2 points, not to be directly linked, with more `between the lines' 1) Insight on one of Atkielski's many noisy statements. + Web Ref to allow others to check suspicions of who this MS biased noise maker was. Readers were supposed to: - Realise they could discover Atkielski's real attitude to FreeBSD advocacy on his own web, which I'd read through: Heavy pro MS, non PD Src bias, no BSD mentioned ! Bare mention of "Unix + Apache" not even a URL. Just 2 PD progs. on offer both MS based, Not sourced. - Remeber previous Atkielski noise, & refutations many had posted. - Remember Terry's important point about Atkielski rubbish perverting the FreeBSD archive. - Not need all above, re-iterated by me again, - Not treat my one new minor point in stand alone mode. 2) I had previously posted reason. Ref: Message-Id: <200211240258.gAO2wfs54255@flip.jhs.private> Subject: Non compliance with list remit. Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 03:58:41 +0100 I have informed postmaster@ that IMO, one person's postings these last 2 days have distracted us from our objective: < Majordomo definition of list > Suggested private mail for people to send post/ web master @ freebsd.org: Now Anthony Atkielski is barred from posting freebsd-advocacy@, would you find + grep + rm recent Atkielski initiated threads ? [ regardless of sender, including this & previous mail :-) ] Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer & Unix Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 27 4:42:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38E037B401 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rockwelldatacorp.com (108.Red-80-33-216.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.33.216.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 939C643E88 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j.schroeder@rockwelldatacorp.com) From: "J Schroeder" To: Subject: Urgent Unix Support Requirement for Frankfurt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:42:20 +0100 Reply-To: "J Schroeder" Message-Id: <20021127124251.939C643E88@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. If any of you guys are looking (or know of anyone looking) for a new position in Frankfurt, I have a colleague looking for several Unix Support people there. Please drop me a mail if interested and I will forward details The rquirement involves: Knowledge of UNIX, SQL or programming languages, Standard Microsoft software, Native German speaker (also good knowledge of English) Best regards, J. Schroeder To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Nov 27 17:53: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D813837B401 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from new-smtp2.ihug.com.au (new-smtp2.ihug.com.au [203.109.250.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42DCB43E9C for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djmunds@gmx.net) Received: from p135-tnt2.adl.ihug.com.au (xion.void) [203.173.252.135] by new-smtp2.ihug.com.au with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 18HDrN-0004uE-00; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:52:58 +1100 Received: by xion.void (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 579B89E; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:57:01 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:57:01 +1030 From: Daniel Mundy To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 5.0-DP2 Message-ID: <20021127102701.GA41083@xion.void> References: <200211191145.12974.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <200211191056.44469.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200211191056.44469.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed Nov 20, 2002 at 05:26:44AM CST, Johnson David wrote: > FreeBSD can now treat ATA devices as SCSI devices. Software that expects SCSI > hardware can now be used even if your hardware is the common and inexpensive > ATA format. Now there is no need to reboot into another operating system to > burn your Compact Discs. Was there ever such a need? See burncd(8) : "burncd - control the ATAPI CD-R/RW driver" Regards, Daniel Mundy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 28 2:35:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F156237B404 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from web14914.mail.yahoo.com (web14914.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.225.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A8D843ED1 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:35:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from samdavidpikesley@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20021128103524.40971.qmail@web14914.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.202.214.45] by web14914.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:35:24 GMT Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:35:24 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= Subject: Re: 5.0-DP2 To: Daniel Mundy , advocacy@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20021127102701.GA41083@xion.void> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG And it works extremely well... write a little script to do mkisofs followed by burncd followed by eject and there's one less reason to use MonopolyWare ;) Sam --- Daniel Mundy wrote: > On Wed Nov 20, 2002 at 05:26:44AM CST, Johnson David > wrote: > > FreeBSD can now treat ATA devices as SCSI devices. > Software that expects SCSI > > hardware can now be used even if your hardware is > the common and inexpensive > > ATA format. Now there is no need to reboot into > another operating system to > > burn your Compact Discs. > > Was there ever such a need? > > See burncd(8) : > "burncd - control the ATAPI CD-R/RW driver" > > Regards, > Daniel Mundy > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of > the message ===== FreeBSD: It Just Works __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 28 8: 0:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4F837B401 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23BD43EBE for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:00:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18HR5N-0007ha-01; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:00:17 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.120.224]) by fmrl04.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18HR5E-0hjKE4C; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:00:08 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gASG6KC85600; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:06:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gASG5ls90706; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:05:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200211281605.gASG5ls90706@flip.jhs.private> To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= Cc: Daniel Mundy , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 5.0-DP2 In-Reply-To: Message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= of "Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:35:24 GMT." <20021128103524.40971.qmail@web14914.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:05:47 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= wrote: > And it works extremely well... write a little script > to do mkisofs followed by burncd followed by eject and > there's one less reason to use MonopolyWare ;) 5.0-DP2 allows me to boot & run my dual processor and access my IDE bus, which is more than I could do simultaneously on the same box with 4.7 & stable, but conversely 5.0-DP2 crashes here, there's no rdist in src/ just ports, & other issues I have & will mention on current@. My main boxes stay 4.[5-7] ... for now. Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer, Unix & Net Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. European BSD Conference, Munich Pre-Planning http://berklix.org/conf/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 28 8:11: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD3237B401 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from web14907.mail.yahoo.com (web14907.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.225.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02B3843E88 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:10:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from samdavidpikesley@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20021128161053.27620.qmail@web14907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.202.214.45] by web14907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:10:53 GMT Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:10:53 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= Subject: Re: 5.0-DP2 To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Daniel Mundy , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200211281605.gASG5ls90706@flip.jhs.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hehe, I was extolling the virtues of burncd, not 5.0... I have 5.0-DP2 on my laptop and it is prone to the occasional unexplained crash, but hey, then I get to use another rock 'n' roll new feature, backgrounded fscking... --- "Julian H. Stacey" wrote: > =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= wrote: > > And it works extremely well... write a little > script > > to do mkisofs followed by burncd followed by eject > and > > there's one less reason to use MonopolyWare ;) > > 5.0-DP2 allows me to boot & run my dual processor > and access my IDE > bus, which is more than I could do simultaneously on > the same box with > 4.7 & stable, but conversely 5.0-DP2 crashes here, > there's no rdist in src/ > just ports, & other issues I have & will mention on > current@. > My main boxes stay 4.[5-7] ... for now. > > Julian Stacey > jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer, Unix > & Net Consultant, Munich. > Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! > Schnupftabak probieren. > European BSD Conference, Munich Pre-Planning > http://berklix.org/conf/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of > the message ===== FreeBSD: It Just Works __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Nov 28 14: 3:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DE537B404 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:03:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA04243E4A for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:03:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18HWku-0007eT-04; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:03:32 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.126.16]) by fmrl01.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18HWko-1p638aC; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:03:26 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gASM9aC86376; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:09:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gASM95s92837; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:09:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200211282209.gASM95s92837@flip.jhs.private> To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= Cc: Daniel Mundy , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 5.0-DP2 In-Reply-To: Message from =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= of "Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:10:53 GMT." <20021128161053.27620.qmail@web14907.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:09:05 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG =?iso-8859-1?q?Sam=20Pikesley?= wrote: > Hehe, I was extolling the virtues of burncd, not > 5.0... I have 5.0-DP2 on my laptop and it is prone to > the occasional unexplained crash, but hey, then I get > to use another rock 'n' roll new feature, backgrounded > fscking... Oh, right. Yes background fsck could be v. attractive for big disc owners. Probably worth a `bullet' in an advocacy features list. ( PS your line wrapper seems over eager. ) Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer, Unix & Net Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. European BSD Conference, Munich Pre-Planning http://berklix.org/conf/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Nov 30 23:30:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C0F37B401 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CCDD43EAF for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BEEB8A8E1E for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 03:30:20 -0400 (AST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 02:57:11 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: freebsd-questions@freeBSD.org Subject: List of big names ... Message-ID: <20021201023429.G6214-100000@hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Other then that I know Yahoo! uses FreeBSD ... is there a list that anyone is maintain about who is using it? I've been having discussions with a partner for awhile now about whether we should launch a product with a base OS of linux vs freebsd ... and its tiring to try and argue against "but, nobody is accepting FreeBSD ... everyone (IBM, HP, Sun, etc) is falling behind Linux" ... Do we have *anything* ... case studies or the like, from big names that have decided *for* FreeBSD over Linux, with a sort of 'why' discusion? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message