From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Jul 21 1:49:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF4E37B400 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFA043E3B for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:49:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g6L8nBF03281; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:49:11 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:49:11 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [POLL] need a good name for share/mk API versioning Message-ID: <20020721084911.GA2361@sunbay.com> References: <20020720.121407.17240249.imp@bsdimp.com> <200207201833.g6KIX1FC087737@dotar.thuvia.org> <20020720.123456.79140066.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020720.123456.79140066.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 20, 2002 at 12:34:56PM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <200207201833.g6KIX1FC087737@dotar.thuvia.org> > Mark Valentine writes: > : > From: "M. Warner Losh" > : > Date: Sat 20 Jul, 2002 > : > Subject: Re: [POLL] need a good name for share/mk API versioning > :=20 > : > Using OSVERSION may be sufficient for the ports. Using a > : > __FREEBSD_MK_API_VERSION variable would also be sufficient, as well as > : > allowing for people that use the bsd.*.mk files externally to the > : > project to continue to do so and cope with the different APIs. > :=20 > : Indeed, if we have __FREEBSD_MK_API_VERSION or equivalent, then ports > : should also use that where appropriate rather than OSVERSION. >=20 > Yes. Exactly my point :-) >=20 Using OSVERSION (kern.osreldate) is the big pessimization in assuming that the userland (share/mk in particular) is of the same date as the running kernel. Using OSVERSION from /usr/include/osreldate.h is the lesser pessimization and that is what I plan to use as a fine-grained replacement for BOOTSTRAPPING hacks in /usr/src. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9OnWHUkv4P6juNwoRAvJWAJ0V1B2wk3ZDCYm8D/0zhm4EyruumgCfZefC 4dhL81v0YBC60w6zXhwO8mY= =bhaD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Jul 21 11:27:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B83237B407 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail5.ksc.th.com (mail5.ksc.th.com [203.155.0.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D676D43E8A for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:27:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from easytoberich01@yahoo.com) Received: from ksc.th.com ([203.107.241.168]) by mail5.ksc.th.com (8.12.1/8.12.0) with SMTP id g6LILZXN010927 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:27:47 +0700 Message-Id: <200207211827.g6LILZXN010927@mail5.ksc.th.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:29:49 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org From: easytoberich01@yahoo.com (chancetoberich) Subject: สำหรับผู้ที่ต้องการโอกาสในการเปลี่ยนแปลงชีวิต Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG !!!!! Part-Time Job!! สำหรับนักเรียน นักศึกษา และผู้ทำงานประจำ คุณต้องการงานแบบนี้บ้างไหม…?? -งาน parttime ทำงานที่บ้านได้ ถ้าคุณใช้ Internet เป็น -ทำงานเพียงวันละ 2-3 ชม. -รายได้ 5,000 – 15,000 บาท ถ้าคุณเป็นคนหนึ่งที่ทำงานประจำหรือยังไม่มีงานทำ นักศึกษาที่กำลังศึกษาอยู่ ผู้ว่างงาน หรือผู้ที่ยังพอมีเวลาว่างจากงานประจำ มีคุณสมบัติเบื้องต้นดังนี้ 1. มีทัศนคติที่ดี 2. พร้อมที่จะเรียนรู้ เนื่องจากเป็นระบบใหม่จึงต้องให้มีการอบรมให้ตามความเหมาะสม 3. ต้องการที่จะทำงานอย่างจริงจัง อยากที่จะเปลี่ยนฐานะทางการเงินของตนเอง และอยากมีรายได้จากการทำงานตรงนี้จริงๆ ทุกอย่างเป็นไปได้ ใน http://www.geocities.com/getchances2000/ อย่า !…………….. เป็นแค่เพียงคนที่นั่งรอโอกาส To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jul 22 11:11:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4B237B400 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corbulon.video-collage.com (corbulon.video-collage.com [64.35.99.179]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3FC43E3B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mi+mx@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from misha.murex.com (250-217.customer.cloud9.net [168.100.250.217]) by corbulon.video-collage.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6MIB7HV090842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:11:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mi+mx@aldan.algebra.com) X-Authentication-Warning: corbulon.video-collage.com: Host 250-217.customer.cloud9.net [168.100.250.217] claimed to be misha.murex.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Mikhail Teterin Organization: Virtual Estates, Inc. To: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: LDADD+=-lstdc++ vs. LD=${CXX} Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:11:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200207221411.22528.mi+mx@aldan.algebra.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.15 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! Which of the two constructs in the subject is better -- more portable, more reliable, more correct (for some definitions of the adjectives listed)? AFAIK, when linking an executable, it is LD=${CXX} (hence the recent PROG_CXX introduction). But what about linking together a shared C++ library which is supposed to be used in C executables (the relationship between graphics/libfpx and graphics/ImageMagick)? Is it time for LIB_CXX define? Thanks! -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jul 22 16:16:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3057F37B400 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta04ps.bigpond.com (mta04ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A39543E5E for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from areilly@bigpond.net.au) Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org ([144.135.25.72]) by mta04ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta04ps May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id GZOBB900.BNB for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:16:21 +1000 Received: from CPE-144-132-188-183.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([144.132.188.183]) by PSMAM02.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 74/13870938); 23 Jul 2002 09:16:20 Received: (qmail 901 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2002 23:16:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (andrew@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Jul 2002 23:16:20 -0000 Subject: Re: Package system flaws? From: Andrew Reilly To: Mark Valentine Cc: jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200207151718.g6FHIkof007662@dotar.thuvia.org> References: <200207151718.g6FHIkof007662@dotar.thuvia.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 23 Jul 2002 09:16:20 +1000 Message-Id: <1027379780.648.51.camel@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 03:18, Mark Valentine wrote: > Beyond that there's a perfectly good C compiler. Here's another way to think about this problem, that just occurred to me (and with it, another theory for a solution): * Any new scripting language always runs into the problem of support for the entirety of the libraries of the base system (and whatever add-ons a site might have) until it becomes popular enough that wrappers will have been written for all of them, or auto-generated in some way. * The big things that make C more difficult than scripting languages are (IMO of course): + No high-level containers as basic types (dictionaries, multi-dimensional auto-sizing arrays, "stringy" strings. + No container-oriented flow control (foreach, etc). + No garbage collection. + Manual type definition. * It does, however automatically have access to facility of the system, because that's how the APIs are expressed (.h files). * There isn't (that I can see) a strong need for the dynamic features of scripting languages (the exec function, essentially) in "programs" like portupgrade and the build-assist things that used to be done in perl. So: what about a ratfor-style pre-processor for C, rather than a whole extra language? The C source could be shipped with the system to be compiled, so that the translator/pre-processor would not be a dependency in the build process. (SmallEiffel bootstraps this way.) I don't know of a language that does what I'm thinking, so perhaps there's something fundamentally difficult with it. SmallEiffel probably comes pretty close, but it doesn't do the type inference that you need to avoid manual definitions. It's also a bit painful to wrap external C functions. Showing it's age a bit there. Certainly there are string manipulation libraries that are much easier to use than stdlib, generic garbage collectors. Sure, it would make the programmer's job a smidgen harder, because they'd have to run the pre-processor and then compile the result, but that's not much of a chore. The system Makefiles could even be taught to do it automatically. On the same topic, (but perhaps in counterpoint) there was a post to comp.arch recently that said (in effect) that every programming project of sufficient scale grows a bad implementation of Common Lisp. Just how important _is_ the exec function to a scripting language? -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jul 22 16:28:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DED37B400 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C21F43E3B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNSIA29923 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:27:32 -0700 Received: from twogun (twogun.apple.com [17.202.45.118]) by scv1.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6MNSAl29925; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:28:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Package system flaws? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v539) Cc: Mark Valentine , jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG To: Andrew Reilly From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" In-Reply-To: <1027379780.648.51.camel@gurney.reilly.home> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.539) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, Jul 22, 2002, at 16:16 US/Pacific, Andrew Reilly wrote: > Just how important _is_ the exec function to a scripting language? Not nearly as important as the eval function. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jul 22 16:42: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4646D37B400 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta04bw.bigpond.com (mta04bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB1643E31 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from areilly@bigpond.net.au) Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org ([144.135.24.78]) by mta04bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta04bw May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id GZOCHA00.FLB for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:41:34 +1000 Received: from CPE-144-132-188-183.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([144.132.188.183]) by bwmam04.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 29/19898505); 23 Jul 2002 09:41:28 Received: (qmail 1108 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2002 23:41:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (andrew@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Jul 2002 23:41:28 -0000 Subject: Re: Package system flaws? From: Andrew Reilly To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mark Valentine , jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 23 Jul 2002 09:41:28 +1000 Message-Id: <1027381288.648.57.camel@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 09:28, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On Monday, Jul 22, 2002, at 16:16 US/Pacific, Andrew Reilly wrote: > > > Just how important _is_ the exec function to a scripting language? > > Not nearly as important as the eval function. :) Doh! That's what I meant, of course. Insufficient caffiene intake so far this morning. So: do, for example, portupgrade or libh make significant use of an eval function? I know (well, believe: it's been a while since I looked) that tcl is all read-eval loop, just like lisp. But how much is that functionality actually used in real programs/scripts? Config file parsing is about all that I can think of, and that's likely to be subsumed by an XML parser or LDAP server hook due to popular demand any day now... :-) -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jul 22 17:31: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7591037B400 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B3A43E31 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N0UqA10651 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:30:13 -0700 Received: from twogun (twogun.apple.com [17.202.45.118]) by scv1.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g6N0Uml28255; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:30:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Package system flaws? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v539) Cc: Mark Valentine , jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG To: Andrew Reilly From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" In-Reply-To: <1027381288.648.57.camel@gurney.reilly.home> Message-Id: <71AEEE0E-9DD3-11D6-A01D-000393038CC8@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.539) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think the most important use of eval is probably the one the user is least explicitly aware of: The outermost one which is called on the contents of a script. To put it another way, it's not so much about parsing config scripts (though that comes along for free with any reasonably simplistic scripting language), it's about extensibility. If sysinstall had been written as a small, tight generic core of functionality with all the actual "personality" in external scripts, for example, people would have long-since come up with lots of good innovations to the "standard" script which made it even easier for novice users to navigate, they would have changed the "expert" script to be even more succinct, and they probably would have come up with a host of other scripts which were uniquely well-suited to installing FreeBSD in academic environments and so on. In the world of packaging, all of the post-configuration and custom installation stuff is essentially controlled by scripts already, they're just shell scripts and sh(1) is already notorious for its weak variable handling (no associative arrays), cumbersome conditional statements, rudimentary string handling primitives, and so on. Adopting a more robust scripting language, especially one where various interfaces to the system or to database libraries can be plugged in from other languages like C, simply makes the package writer's job that much easier. Maybe I'm seeing this from the wrong perspective, but it seems to me that this is all people are essentially arguing about. - Jordan On Monday, Jul 22, 2002, at 16:41 US/Pacific, Andrew Reilly wrote: > On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 09:28, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> On Monday, Jul 22, 2002, at 16:16 US/Pacific, Andrew Reilly wrote: >> >>> Just how important _is_ the exec function to a scripting language? >> >> Not nearly as important as the eval function. :) > > Doh! That's what I meant, of course. Insufficient caffiene intake so > far this morning. > > So: do, for example, portupgrade or libh make significant use of an > eval > function? > > I know (well, believe: it's been a while since I looked) that tcl is > all > read-eval loop, just like lisp. But how much is that functionality > actually used in real programs/scripts? Config file parsing is about > all that I can think of, and that's likely to be subsumed by an XML > parser or LDAP server hook due to popular demand any day now... :-) > > -- > Andrew > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jul 22 18:40:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ED937B400 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4834743E31 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6N1e4b87365; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:40:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6N1e4KC034105; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:40:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6N1e3ZC034104; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:40:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:40:03 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200207230140.g6N1e3ZC034104@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: <71AEEE0E-9DD3-11D6-A01D-000393038CC8@queasyweasel.com> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Andrew Reilly Subject: Re: Package system flaws? Cc: jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Date: Mon 22 Jul, 2002 > Subject: Re: Package system flaws? > sh(1) is already notorious for its weak > variable handling (no associative arrays), But hey, it has "eval"... ;-) main() { array_init colour array_set colour apple red array_set colour pear green for_each colour c 'echo "The $c is `array_get colour $c`."' } array_init() { array=$1 eval _keys_$array= } array_set() { array=$1 key=$2 value=$3 eval _elements_${array}_${key}="$value" eval _keys_${array}=\"\$_keys_${array} $key\" } array_get() { array=$1 key=$2 eval value=\$_elements_${array}_${key} echo "$value" } for_each() { array=$1 variable=$2 procedure=$3 eval for key in \$_keys_${array}\; do \{ $variable=\$key\; $procedure\; \}\; done } main Almost as readable as Tcl, I'd say. And as for Perl... Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 0:30:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF19D37B400 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AB943E42 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id AF2D0535C; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:30:12 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Andrew Reilly , Mark Valentine , jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Package system flaws? References: <71AEEE0E-9DD3-11D6-A01D-000393038CC8@queasyweasel.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 23 Jul 2002 09:30:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: <71AEEE0E-9DD3-11D6-A01D-000393038CC8@queasyweasel.com> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > In the world of packaging, all of the post-configuration and custom > installation stuff is essentially controlled by scripts already, > they're just shell scripts and sh(1) is already notorious for its weak > variable handling (no associative arrays), cumbersome conditional > statements, rudimentary string handling primitives, and so on. So let's import a ksh. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 6:15:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1816F37B400 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6205D43E42 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:15:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NDFEb89800; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:15:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6NDFDKC059248; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:15:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6NDFCKB059227; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:15:12 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:15:12 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200207231315.g6NDFCKB059227@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Package system flaws? Cc: Andrew Reilly , jos@catnook.com, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav > Date: Tue 23 Jul, 2002 > Subject: Re: Package system flaws? > "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > In the world of packaging, all of the post-configuration and custom > > installation stuff is essentially controlled by scripts already, > > they're just shell scripts and sh(1) is already notorious for its weak > > variable handling (no associative arrays), cumbersome conditional > > statements, rudimentary string handling primitives, and so on. > > So let's import a ksh. ksh93 even has dynamically loadable builtins, which allows the extensibility to arbitrary APIs that phk pointed out was the most important feature of the "real" scripting languages. $ grep "^ksh93" /usr/ports/LEGAL ksh93 ports/shells/ksh93 User must agree to "regularly monitor the Website". How about a cron job to fetch the web page and mail it to root, oh say about twice a year? ;-) ksh93 would also help the standards effort. Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 6:30:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C632837B401 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.microelectronics.com (www.microelectronics.com [4.18.26.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0854143E3B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 06:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adean@microcenter.com) Received: from zul.microcenter.com (zul.microcenter.com [4.18.26.10]) by www.microelectronics.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA19413 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:30:16 -0400 Received: from sysadm.microcenter.com by zul.microcenter.com via smtpd (for www.microelectronics.com [4.18.26.20]) with SMTP; 23 Jul 2002 13:26:03 UT Received: from mail.microcenter.com (aydnpc.microcenter.com [10.10.29.21]) by sysadm.microcenter.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NDTfc17469 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:29:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3D3D5AAD.1080305@mail.microcenter.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:31:25 -0400 From: Anthony Dean User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Package system flaws? References: <200207231315.g6NDFCKB059227@dotar.thuvia.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>In the world of packaging, all of the post-configuration and custom >>>installation stuff is essentially controlled by scripts already, >>>they're just shell scripts and sh(1) is already notorious for its weak >>>variable handling (no associative arrays), cumbersome conditional >>>statements, rudimentary string handling primitives, and so on. >>> >>So let's import a ksh. >> > > ksh93 even has dynamically loadable builtins, which allows the extensibility > to arbitrary APIs that phk pointed out was the most important feature of the > "real" scripting languages. > > $ grep "^ksh93" /usr/ports/LEGAL > ksh93 ports/shells/ksh93 User must agree to "regularly monitor the Website". > > How about a cron job to fetch the web page and mail it to root, oh say about > twice a year? ;-) > > ksh93 would also help the standards effort. > > Cheers, > > Mark. I've been meaning to suggest the same thing. I can't think of anything that Perl does better than ksh93, but ksh93 is actually readable (and makes a damn good interactive shell :) In fact ksh93 is the first port I install on Free/OpenBSD. Anthony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 9:30:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A3B37B401 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4DF43E31 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:30:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 17X2YZ-0001Eg-00; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:30:39 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6NFXXP4051790 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:33:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6NFXXUi051789 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:33:33 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <200207231315.g6NDFCKB059227@dotar.thuvia.org> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Valentine wrote: > ksh93 would also help the standards effort. ksh93 has an unacceptable license. The legalese is impenetrable, but it appears you can't redistribute the source without the receiver explicitly acknowledging the license; AT&T can revoke the license; etc. This was clearly written by corporate lawyers in a mindset entirely different from that of the Open Source community. (ksh93 also ships with an idiosyncratic build system from hell. They try to be ultra-portable, but the result is extremely fickle and the port keeps breaking. We can't run the regression tests against the compiled excutable unless somebody dives even further into the mess of AT&T's parallel code universe, but I suspect if we could the results would be discouraging. Speaking as the maintainer of the port, I certainly advise against people using ksh93 for anything serious.) -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 10: 6:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C027F37B400 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F417343E31 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NH6Xb90706; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:06:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6NH6XKC076927; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:06:33 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6NH6XOV076926; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:06:33 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:06:33 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) > Date: Tue 23 Jul, 2002 > Subject: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) > ksh93 has an unacceptable license. The legalese is impenetrable, It sure is. > but it appears you can't redistribute the source without the receiver > explicitly acknowledging the license; OK, I thought that requirement had weakened recently now that you don't have to accept a license to fetch it from the web site, but I guess not. > AT&T can revoke the license; Eek, I missed that! > This was clearly written by corporate lawyers in a mindset > entirely different from that of the Open Source community. I'm more interested in the intentions of those who had the lawyers write up an open source license for it. > (ksh93 also ships with an idiosyncratic build system from hell. That doesn't help, sure. > Speaking as the > maintainer of the port, I certainly advise against people using > ksh93 for anything serious.) Oh well, thanks for putting us straight. I'll return to my "polish /bin/sh up a bit with a list type and implement dynamically loadable builtins" view of the world, until such time as an obvious replacement shell comes along. I think many of the issues regarding maintaining an arbitrary third party scripting environment in the base system would be mitigated by fairly minor enhancements to existing facilities. Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 10:45:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from green.bikeshed.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D58137B400; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by green.bikeshed.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NHjfZ47049; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:45:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Message-Id: <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Mark Valentine Cc: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:06:33 BST." <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> From: "Brian F. Feldman" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:45:41 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Valentine wrote: > I'll return to my "polish /bin/sh up a bit with a list type and > implement dynamically loadable builtins" view of the world, until > such time as an obvious replacement shell comes along. > > I think many of the issues regarding maintaining an arbitrary third party > scripting environment in the base system would be mitigated by fairly minor > enhancements to existing facilities. No. No, they wouldn't. I advise VERY strongly against trying to do things with sh which it is bad at. Korn gets that very wrong and makes ksh do a lot of nice things but couples with a syntax which is _BAD_ for a general-purpose language. There are _so_ many small, perfectly good scripting languages that could be used instead, and are tremendously easier to learn (much easier than learning how to do weird magic in sh). The solution probably isn't to maintain yet another scripting language in the tree. It's also not to use a Bourne shell. Maybe it is acceptable to write something totally new, I don't know. It shouldn't look anything like sh, though. (Sorry, Warner. :) -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \'[ FreeBSD ]''''''''''\ <> green@FreeBSD.org <> bfeldman@tislabs.com \ The Power to Serve! \ Opinions expressed are my own. \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 11:35:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685EA37B400; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9915E43E70; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:35:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NIZQb91020; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:35:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6NIZQKC055672; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:35:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6NIZQ7Y055643; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:35:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:35:26 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200207231835.g6NIZQ7Y055643@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Cc: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: "Brian F. Feldman" > Date: Tue 23 Jul, 2002 > Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) > Mark Valentine wrote: > > I think many of the issues regarding maintaining an arbitrary third party > > scripting environment in the base system would be mitigated by fairly minor > > enhancements to existing facilities. > > No. No, they wouldn't. Your reasoning didn't quite convince me. ;-) > I advise VERY strongly against trying to do things > with sh which it is bad at. Korn gets that very wrong and makes ksh do a > lot of nice things I'm not advocating growing /bin/sh into quite such a monster. Most of my scripting is still done in a _portable subset_ of Bourne shell. I use a more suitable language (whatever is available and has the desired feature set) for the minority of tasks which require a more powerful scripting language yet don't warrant being written in C. If I could use sh for that middle stuff, my life would be that bit more complete. So far all we've identified that's truely missing are better array/list handling and extensibility via dynamically loadable modules. > but couples with a syntax which is _BAD_ for a > general-purpose language. I don't consider it any worse than most others. What's more, it's *familiar* (yes, overdoing extensions would go against that advantage, so should be avoided). I value minimal syntactic verbosity in a scripting language, and the Bourne shell doesn't do too badly there (but stuff too much into it and you get to Perl). You didn't say why you considered it _BAD_. > There are _so_ many small, perfectly good > scripting languages that could be used instead, and are tremendously easier > to learn (much easier than learning how to do weird magic in sh). I already know how to do weird magic in sh, thanks, and most folks should know it to some extent (except those who latched onto a "newer" scripting language early on and simply can't survive unless their favourite tool is installed). > The solution probably isn't to maintain yet another scripting language in > the tree. It's also not to use a Bourne shell. Maybe it is acceptable to > write something totally new, I don't know. It shouldn't look anything like > sh, though. Attempts to maintain another scripting language failed twice already, and NIH doesn't sound like a solution either (or I'd try to sell you on the design of _my_ ideal scripting language ;-). /bin/sh has served us well over the years (at least after it grew functions), and it wouldn't take much for it to be useful for significant additional purposes. All in all, it's an issue of functionality rather than one of taste, though. Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 12:16:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from green.bikeshed.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAEC37B400; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by green.bikeshed.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NJGTj47459; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:16:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Message-Id: <200207231916.g6NJGTj47459@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Mark Valentine Cc: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:35:26 BST." <200207231835.g6NIZQ7Y055643@dotar.thuvia.org> From: "Brian F. Feldman" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:16:29 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Valentine wrote: > > From: "Brian F. Feldman" > > Date: Tue 23 Jul, 2002 > > Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) > > > Mark Valentine wrote: > > > I think many of the issues regarding maintaining an arbitrary third party > > > scripting environment in the base system would be mitigated by fairly minor > > > enhancements to existing facilities. > > > > No. No, they wouldn't. > > Your reasoning didn't quite convince me. ;-) > > > I advise VERY strongly against trying to do things > > with sh which it is bad at. Korn gets that very wrong and makes ksh do a > > lot of nice things > > I'm not advocating growing /bin/sh into quite such a monster. > > Most of my scripting is still done in a _portable subset_ of Bourne shell. > > I use a more suitable language (whatever is available and has the desired > feature set) for the minority of tasks which require a more powerful scripting > language yet don't warrant being written in C. > > If I could use sh for that middle stuff, my life would be that bit more > complete. So far all we've identified that's truely missing are better > array/list handling and extensibility via dynamically loadable modules. It's not just a question of if you could, though; the question is if everyone else is willing to live with the rest of the shell's shortcomings for it to be used as a secondary /systems/ programming language for anything moderately _complex_. > > but couples with a syntax which is _BAD_ for a > > general-purpose language. > > I don't consider it any worse than most others. What's more, it's *familiar* > (yes, overdoing extensions would go against that advantage, so should be > avoided). > > I value minimal syntactic verbosity in a scripting language, and the Bourne > shell doesn't do too badly there (but stuff too much into it and you get to > Perl). > > You didn't say why you considered it _BAD_. I have lots of reasons. There were the compromises made by inability/ unwillingness to initially support any form of either built-ins or syntactical constructs. It's not a lack of syntactic verbosity; it doesn't have a normal syntax. Cleanliness was compromised in order to have something that was easy to implement as a bunch of external commands. Function call syntax is painful at best, as well as default global scoping for variables, no ability to separate environment variable space from normal variable space. > > There are _so_ many small, perfectly good > > scripting languages that could be used instead, and are tremendously easier > > to learn (much easier than learning how to do weird magic in sh). > > I already know how to do weird magic in sh, thanks, and most folks should > know it to some extent (except those who latched onto a "newer" scripting > language early on and simply can't survive unless their favourite tool is > installed). Like typing? Typing could either possibly be implemented in your shell, in any number of ways, or it could not be implemented and you'd have to find some other way to define what a variable is... > > The solution probably isn't to maintain yet another scripting language in > > the tree. It's also not to use a Bourne shell. Maybe it is acceptable to > > write something totally new, I don't know. It shouldn't look anything like > > sh, though. > > Attempts to maintain another scripting language failed twice already, and > NIH doesn't sound like a solution either (or I'd try to sell you on the > design of _my_ ideal scripting language ;-). Please, do share! :-D > /bin/sh has served us well over the years (at least after it grew functions), > and it wouldn't take much for it to be useful for significant additional > purposes. > > All in all, it's an issue of functionality rather than one of taste, though. There's room for a real language instead of just extending sh. -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \'[ FreeBSD ]''''''''''\ <> green@FreeBSD.org <> bfeldman@tislabs.com \ The Power to Serve! \ Opinions expressed are my own. \,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 12:16:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B67737B400; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hardtime.linuxman.net (hardtime.linuxman.net [66.147.26.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AA043E67; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hardtime.linuxman.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NIQ3j30297; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:26:04 -0500 Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 9C5841F05; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:16:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:16:38 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: Mark Valentine , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 01:45:41PM -0400 I heard the voice of Brian F. Feldman, and lo! it spake thus: > > to learn (much easier than learning how to do weird magic in sh). And much easier than joining Linux in having a sh-but-more-than-sh-so-we- -teach-more-people-to-use-non-standard-extensions-by-reflex. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 13:48:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B8A37B400; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4119343E31; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:48:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NKmIb91477; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:48:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6NKmHKC028434; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:48:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6NKmHQe028433; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:48:17 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:48:17 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200207232048.g6NKmHQe028433@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: <200207231916.g6NJGTj47459@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Cc: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: "Brian F. Feldman" > Date: Tue 23 Jul, 2002 > Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) > Mark Valentine wrote: > > If I could use sh for that middle stuff, my life would be that bit more > > complete. So far all we've identified that's truely missing are better > > array/list handling and extensibility via dynamically loadable modules. > > It's not just a question of if you could, though; the question is if > everyone else is willing to live with the rest of the shell's shortcomings > for it to be used as a secondary /systems/ programming language for anything > moderately _complex_. We're not arguing about people's choice of scripting language for _complex_ tasks. Install and use what you will. All I'm talking about is the smallest possible enhancement to facilities in the base system which reduces the number of people who feel they have to go to a third party tool, and provides something which is quite good enough to write, for example, packaging tools with, so that those tools can be in the base system where they belong. > > You didn't say why you considered it _BAD_. > > I have lots of reasons. There were the compromises made by inability/ > unwillingness to initially support any form of either built-ins or > syntactical constructs. Are you talking about historical stuff here? > It's not a lack of syntactic verbosity; it doesn't > have a normal syntax. Define "normal"... Sure, it could be nominally improved, but don't change what ain't broke (see where that got csh...). Since, by the time I started writing sh scripts, "|" was already preferred over "^" for pipes, my old scripts will often run just fine under a "modern" sh. A scripting language should have a concise syntax; what's good for a compiled language environment is not necessarily good for scripting. One major value of a concise syntax is for rapid prototyping. > Cleanliness was compromised in order to have something > that was easy to implement as a bunch of external commands. For some definition of "cleanliness"... Considering the time frame, that design sure turned out to be a winner! Wasn't the "cleaned up" design called rc...? > Function call syntax is painful at best, It's simple and functional. What's painful about it? (Myself, I find it less painful than any other function syntax I've met.) > as well as default global scoping for variables, Again, that's a good feature for scripting (I hate having to declare globals all over the place in Tcl). Besides, our sh has locals. (In my portable code, I tend to use a an underscore prefix for local variables, which doesn't fix the problem for nested function calls, but does reduce it somewhat.) > no ability to separate environment variable space from normal variable space. They are separate (see "export"). You're probably disagreeing with the fact that the shell imports all environment variables as shell variables by default. > Like typing? Typing could either possibly be implemented in your shell, in > any number of ways, or it could not be implemented and you'd have to find > some other way to define what a variable is... Loose typing is good for scripting. > There's room for a real language instead of just extending sh. There are plenty to choose from, but there are currently no clear candidates for the base system. Considering the amount of code I've written in it, the Bourne shell seems "real" enough for me. And it's already installed. Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 13:52:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7398E37B400; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413A443E42; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: (from k@localhost) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6NKqlB58136; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:52:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from k) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:52:47 +0200 From: Johan Karlsson To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: sheldonh@freebsd.org Subject: adding '-t tty' to biff(1)/mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020723225247.G50574@numeri.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Currently there is no way of changing the biff/mesg status of a tty where another program is running. (except if you know all the gory details about biff and mesg) PR 13072 and 13073 suggest to add an option -t to specify which tty to use. http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/13072 http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/13073 I intend to commit this unless I get a good reason not to. For those of you actually interested in reviewing the diff it can be found at: http://people.freebsd.org/~johan/tty.diff Take care /Johan -- Johan Karlsson mailto:johan@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jul 23 14:51: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DBA37B40A for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ssentech.com (mail.ssentech.com [211.236.111.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC1243E3B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giftnala@hananet.net) Received: from i5j9j4 ([211.176.230.70]) by ssentech.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NL2rd07544 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:02:53 +0900 Message-Id: <200207232102.g6NL2rd07544@ssentech.com> From: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?seLHwcaus6q28w==?= To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?W7GksO1dxsfDy7mwIaLCosK/1bW1uMUmsKGw3cbEsauiwqLCICAgZnJlZWJzZC1hcmNotNQgvsiz58fPvcq0z7HuPw==?= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:49:34 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B113B43E42; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:13:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danfe@regency.nsu.ru) Received: from drweb by mail.nsu.ru with drweb-scanned (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17XESY-0007q1-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:14 +0700 Received: from regency.nsu.ru ([193.124.210.26]) by mail.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17XESY-0007pn-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:14 +0700 Received: from regency.nsu.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by regency.nsu.ru (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6O5DbqJ045665; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:37 +0700 (NOVST) (envelope-from danfe@regency.nsu.ru) Received: (from danfe@localhost) by regency.nsu.ru (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g6O5DZKk045577; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:35 +0700 (NOVST) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:35 +0700 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Mark Valentine , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net>; from fullermd@over-yonder.net on Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 02:16:38PM -0500 X-Envelope-To: fullermd@over-yonder.net, green@freebsd.org, mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk, naddy@mips.inka.de, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 02:16:38PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 01:45:41PM -0400 I heard the voice of > Brian F. Feldman, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > to learn (much easier than learning how to do weird magic in sh). > > And much easier than joining Linux in having a sh-but-more-than-sh-so-we- > -teach-more-people-to-use-non-standard-extensions-by-reflex. Wait, doesn't Linux (all of them) just have sh -> bash ? ./danfe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 0:46:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759D037B400; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0407E43E3B; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:46:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@starjuice.net) Received: from sheldonh by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local (Exim 4.10) id 17XGrq-000Emp-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:47:30 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:47:30 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Johan Karlsson Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding '-t tty' to biff(1)/mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020724074730.GE56717@starjuice.net> Mail-Followup-To: Johan Karlsson , arch@freebsd.org References: <20020723225247.G50574@numeri.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020723225247.G50574@numeri.campus.luth.se> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On (2002/07/23 22:52), Johan Karlsson wrote: > Currently there is no way of changing the biff/mesg > status of a tty where another program is running. > (except if you know all the gory details about biff and mesg) For mesg(1), you can use shell redirection to accomplish your goal, as with tools like vidcontrol(1): mesg y < /dev/ttyp7 This doesn't work for biff(1). I'm not saying you shouldn't consider adding new options, but suggesting that maybe the correct path forward is simply to fix biff(1) so that it operates like other tools designed to change the behaviour of a terminal. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 6:21:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B613937B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36D243E42 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: (from k@localhost) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6ODLjv75309 for arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:21:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from k) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:21:44 +0200 From: Johan Karlsson To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding '-t tty' to biff(1)/mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020724152144.C58742@numeri.campus.luth.se> References: <20020723225247.G50574@numeri.campus.luth.se> <20020724074730.GE56717@starjuice.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020724074730.GE56717@starjuice.net>; from sheldonh@starjuice.net on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:47:30AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:47 (+0200) +0000, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > For mesg(1), you can use shell redirection to accomplish your goal, > as with tools like vidcontrol(1): > > mesg y < /dev/ttyp7 > > This doesn't work for biff(1). You are absolutly correct. This is a good enough reason for not committing my changes. Instead I will teach biff(1) to work in this way. Thanks for pointing this out. /Johan -- Johan Karlsson mailto:johan@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 6:38:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0412E37B495; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4214F43E42; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@starjuice.net) Received: from sheldonh by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local (Exim 4.10) id 17XMN0-000FLJ-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:40:02 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:40:02 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Johan Karlsson Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding '-t tty' to biff(1)/mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020724134002.GC57998@starjuice.net> Mail-Followup-To: Johan Karlsson , arch@freebsd.org References: <20020723225247.G50574@numeri.campus.luth.se> <20020724074730.GE56717@starjuice.net> <20020724152144.C58742@numeri.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020724152144.C58742@numeri.campus.luth.se> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On (2002/07/24 15:21), Johan Karlsson wrote: > > For mesg(1), you can use shell redirection to accomplish your goal, > > as with tools like vidcontrol(1): > > > > mesg y < /dev/ttyp7 > > > > This doesn't work for biff(1). > > You are absolutly correct. > This is a good enough reason for not committing my changes. > Instead I will teach biff(1) to work in this way. Be aware that Robert Drehmel already has a patch for this, but has been having trouble sending email. He told me this a few moments ago on IRC. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 6:49:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE93A37B400; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h132-197-179-27.gte.com (h132-197-179-27.gte.com [132.197.179.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0881743E3B; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ak03@gte.com) Received: from kanpc.gte.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by h132-197-179-27.gte.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6ODnY9X051118; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:49:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ak03@kanpc.gte.com) Received: (from ak03@localhost) by kanpc.gte.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6ODnV1j051103; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:49:31 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: fullermd@over-yonder.net, green@FreeBSD.ORG, mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk, naddy@mips.inka.de, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-Id: <20020724094931.18ff172c.ak03@gte.com> In-Reply-To: <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> Organization: Verizon Data Services X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.8claws76 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:35 +0700 Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > Wait, doesn't Linux (all of them) just have sh -> bash ? Debian has ash as /bin/sh, AFAIK. -- Alexander Kabaev To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 7: 5:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0A337B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E2D43E4A for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 33786849 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2002 13:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2002 13:53:23 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (xvws1jrbiuymh2u5@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6ODrMq4013453; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:53:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6ODrLw4013452; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:53:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:53:21 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Mark Valentine Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200207231916.g6NJGTj47459@green.bikeshed.org> <200207232048.g6NKmHQe028433@dotar.thuvia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200207232048.g6NKmHQe028433@dotar.thuvia.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 09:48:17PM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote: > > There's room for a real language instead of just extending sh. > > There are plenty to choose from, but there are currently no clear candidates > for the base system. well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many features (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and builtin dynamic loading... > Considering the amount of code I've written in it, the Bourne shell seems > "real" enough for me. > > And it's already installed. personnaly, I prefer ksh over sh. unfortunately, ksh93 isn't usable and ksh88 (or pdksh) are missing some stuffs like associative arrays, builtin dynamic loading (pdksh), etc. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 7: 8:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F81437B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D342443E3B for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 30642797 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2002 13:42:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2002 13:42:31 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (r72sz4iwojzyocrz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6ODgUq4013326; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:42:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6ODgTvf013325; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:42:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:42:28 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" , "Brian F. Feldman" , Mark Valentine , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020724134228.GA4475@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , Alexey Dokuchaev , "Matthew D. Fuller" , "Brian F. Feldman" , Mark Valentine , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:13:35PM +0700, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 02:16:38PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 01:45:41PM -0400 I heard the voice of > > Brian F. Feldman, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > > > to learn (much easier than learning how to do weird magic in sh). > > > > And much easier than joining Linux in having a sh-but-more-than-sh-so-we- > > -teach-more-people-to-use-non-standard-extensions-by-reflex. > > Wait, doesn't Linux (all of them) just have sh -> bash ? the reason why many GNU/Linux `sh' scripts aren't portable at all. unfortunately, I have no good example in my mind right now, sorry. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 7:12:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB64E37B400; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F03643E42; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:12:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danfe@regency.nsu.ru) Received: from drweb by mail.nsu.ru with drweb-scanned (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17XMrv-0001Or-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:11:59 +0700 Received: from regency.nsu.ru ([193.124.210.26]) by mail.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17XMrv-0001OS-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:11:59 +0700 Received: from regency.nsu.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by regency.nsu.ru (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g6OECOqJ083891; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:12:24 +0700 (NOVST) (envelope-from danfe@regency.nsu.ru) Received: (from danfe@localhost) by regency.nsu.ru (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g6OECM43083824; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:12:22 +0700 (NOVST) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:12:22 +0700 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Alexander Kabaev Cc: fullermd@over-yonder.net, green@freebsd.org, mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk, naddy@mips.inka.de, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020724211222.A83012@regency.nsu.ru> References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> <20020724094931.18ff172c.ak03@gte.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020724094931.18ff172c.ak03@gte.com>; from ak03@gte.com on Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:49:31AM -0400 X-Envelope-To: ak03@gte.com, fullermd@over-yonder.net, green@freebsd.org, mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk, naddy@mips.inka.de, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:49:31AM -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:13:35 +0700 > Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > > Wait, doesn't Linux (all of them) just have sh -> bash ? > > Debian has ash as /bin/sh, AFAIK. I have a Debian box account, that's what I see there: danfe@inet:~$ ls -l `which sh bash` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 511400 Apr 9 02:07 /bin/bash lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 2 1996 /bin/sh -> bash danfe@inet:~$ ./danfe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 7:44:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A0037B401 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (zola.noos.net [212.198.2.76]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8599343E65 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 47493197 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2002 14:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.76 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2002 14:44:30 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (o35qbgfur5fsc04h@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6OEiTq4013967; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:44:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6OEiSFp013966; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:44:28 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, howardjp@wam.umd.edu Cc: freebsd arch Subject: Re: bin/13073: Extensions to mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020724144427.GA13514@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, howardjp@wam.umd.edu, freebsd arch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, IMHO, there is no real need for such `-t tty' option. for instance, `mesg n 2< /dev/ttyXX' will do it. however, to match SUSv3, a simple indirection should suffice. http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/mesg.html DESCRIPTION ... The terminal device affected shall be determined by searching for the first terminal in the sequence of devices associated with standard input, standard output, and standard error, respectively. ... STDOUT If no operand is specified, mesg shall display the current terminal state in an unspecified format. STDERR The standard error shall be used only for diagnostic messages. EXIT STATUS The following exit values shall be returned: 0 Receiving messages is allowed. 1 Receiving messages is not allowed. >1 An error occurred. also, biff and mesg don't match. the former display it's diagnostic message to stdout and the later to stderr. here is a patch to sync mesg w/ SUSv3. * string.h not needed * try stdin, stdout and stderr in turn * err(1 -> err(2 * fprintf(stderr -> printf( * other changes reduce diffs w/ biff. Index: /usr/src/usr.bin/mesg/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.bin/mesg/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 Makefile --- /usr/src/usr.bin/mesg/Makefile 27 May 1994 12:30:44 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ /usr/src/usr.bin/mesg/Makefile 24 Jul 2002 14:25:44 -0000 @@ -1,5 +1,6 @@ # @(#)Makefile 8.1 (Berkeley) 6/6/93 PROG= mesg +WARNS?= 2 .include Index: /usr/src/usr.bin/mesg/mesg.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.bin/mesg/mesg.c,v retrieving revision 1.4 diff -u -r1.4 mesg.c --- /usr/src/usr.bin/mesg/mesg.c 28 Aug 1999 01:03:59 -0000 1.4 +++ /usr/src/usr.bin/mesg/mesg.c 24 Jul 2002 14:39:28 -0000 @@ -56,7 +56,6 @@ #include #include #include -#include #include static void usage __P((void)); @@ -79,33 +78,32 @@ argc -= optind; argv += optind; - if ((tty = ttyname(STDERR_FILENO)) == NULL) - err(1, "ttyname"); + if ((tty = ttyname(STDIN_FILENO)) == NULL && + (tty = ttyname(STDOUT_FILENO)) == NULL && + (tty = ttyname(STDERR_FILENO)) == NULL) + err(2, "unknown tty"); + if (stat(tty, &sb) < 0) - err(1, "%s", tty); + err(2, "%s", tty); if (*argv == NULL) { - if (sb.st_mode & S_IWGRP) { - (void)fprintf(stderr, "is y\n"); - exit(0); - } - (void)fprintf(stderr, "is n\n"); - exit(1); + (void)printf("is %s\n", sb.st_mode & S_IWGRP ? "y" : "n"); + return(sb.st_mode & S_IWGRP ? 0 : 1); } - switch (*argv[0]) { + switch (argv[0][0]) { case 'y': if (chmod(tty, sb.st_mode | S_IWGRP) < 0) - err(1, "%s", tty); - exit(0); + err(2, "%s", tty); + break; case 'n': if (chmod(tty, sb.st_mode & ~S_IWGRP) < 0) - err(1, "%s", tty); - exit(1); + err(2, "%s", tty); + break; + default: + usage(); } - - usage(); - return(0); + return(sb.st_mode & S_IWGRP ? 0 : 1); } static void PS : see PR #13072 for a similar patch to biff. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 7:47:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51F637B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575B843E42 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 33742708 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2002 14:47:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2002 14:47:07 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (dj9ue95h6z6d1o5c@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6OEl6q4014033; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:47:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6OEl6NS014032; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:47:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:47:06 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, howardjp@wam.umd.edu Cc: freebsd arch Subject: Re: bin/13072: Extensions to biff(1) Message-ID: <20020724144705.GA13971@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, howardjp@wam.umd.edu, freebsd arch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG see PR #13073 for comments. * errno.h and string.h not needed. * other headers sorted (see style(9)). Index: /usr/src/usr.bin/biff/biff.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.bin/biff/biff.c,v retrieving revision 1.6.2.3 diff -u -r1.6.2.3 biff.c --- /usr/src/usr.bin/biff/biff.c 2 Aug 2001 01:06:37 -0000 1.6.2.3 +++ /usr/src/usr.bin/biff/biff.c 24 Jul 2002 14:36:05 -0000 @@ -45,12 +45,11 @@ #include #include -#include -#include + +#include #include #include -#include -#include +#include int main __P((int, char *[])); static void usage __P((void)); @@ -66,7 +65,7 @@ while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) - switch(ch) { + switch (ch) { case '?': default: usage(); @@ -74,7 +73,9 @@ argc -= optind; argv += optind; - if ((name = ttyname(STDERR_FILENO)) == NULL) + if ((name = ttyname(STDIN_FILENO)) == NULL && + (name = ttyname(STDOUT_FILENO)) == NULL && + (name = ttyname(STDERR_FILENO)) == NULL) err(2, "unknown tty"); if (stat(name, &sb)) Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 7:49: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38CEA37B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F322143E4A for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:48:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 33801380 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2002 14:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jul 2002 14:48:58 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (hnmyvqyajgcw2rvl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6OEmwq4014053; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:48:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6OEmu7V014052; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:48:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:48:56 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Johan Karlsson , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adding '-t tty' to biff(1)/mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020724144856.GC4475@gits.dyndns.org> References: <20020723225247.G50574@numeri.campus.luth.se> <20020724074730.GE56717@starjuice.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020724074730.GE56717@starjuice.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 09:47:30AM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On (2002/07/23 22:52), Johan Karlsson wrote: > > > Currently there is no way of changing the biff/mesg > > status of a tty where another program is running. > > (except if you know all the gory details about biff and mesg) > > For mesg(1), you can use shell redirection to accomplish your goal, > as with tools like vidcontrol(1): > > mesg y < /dev/ttyp7 > > This doesn't work for biff(1). it works using : biff n 2< /dev/ttyv3 see comments on PR #13073. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 8: 1:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04E337B401; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D5A43E31; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: (from k@localhost) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6OF1nO79385; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:01:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from k) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:01:49 +0200 From: Johan Karlsson To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, howardjp@wam.umd.edu, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: bin/13073: Extensions to mesg(1) Message-ID: <20020724170149.B76534@numeri.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim (tjr) has already made mesg(1) SuSv3 compiant in current. /Johan -- Johan Karlsson mailto:johan@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 9:17: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7526137B401; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6DA43E4A; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OGH0b95514; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:17:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6OGGxVe027250; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:16:59 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6OGGxjB027249; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:16:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:16:59 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200207241616.g6OGGxjB027249@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Cyrille Lefevre Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Cyrille Lefevre > Date: Wed 24 Jul, 2002 > Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) > On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 09:48:17PM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote: > > There are plenty to choose from, but there are currently no clear candidates > > for the base system. > > well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many features > (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and builtin dynamic > loading... Yes, it seems to have come a long way since I last looked at it years ago. I've installed it and I'm wading through the documentation. It seems to have the features we need, and the license, but I'm not sure if there could ever be agreement to get it in the base system, probably because it's another moving target - base system utilities generally want to to be small and stable. > personnaly, I prefer ksh over sh. unfortunately, ksh93 isn't usable > and ksh88 (or pdksh) are missing some stuffs like associative arrays, > builtin dynamic loading (pdksh), etc. Yes, it's a pity. Though I don't think I'd ever use ksh as an interactive shell (my fingers have absolute requirements on command history and completion due to early exposure to a hacked up sh, and it took bash long enough to grow enough options to emulate the behaviour - I'm going to see if I can get zsh to behave the way I need, though). I'm more interested in ksh as a possible way of extending sh's scripting functionality just enough to be useful, and in a "standard" way. Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 10:19:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D76BA37B406 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.netcologne.de (smtp.netcologne.de [194.8.194.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3F843E72 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmseck-lists@netcologne.de) Received: from localhost (xdsl-213-168-116-254.netcologne.de [213.168.116.254]) by smtp.netcologne.de (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g6OHJAUt029738 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:19:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: (qmail 924 invoked by uid 1001); 24 Jul 2002 17:17:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:17:00 +0200 From: Thomas Seck To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020724171700.GC823@laurel.tmseck.homedns.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> <20020724134228.GA4475@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020724134228.GA4475@gits.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: private site in Germany X-PGP-KeyID: DF46EE05 X-PGP-Fingerprint: A38F AE66 6B11 6EB9 5D1A B67D 2444 2FE1 DF46 EE05 X-Attribution: tms Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Cyrille Lefevre (cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net): > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:13:35PM +0700, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > Wait, doesn't Linux (all of them) just have sh -> bash ? > > the reason why many GNU/Linux `sh' scripts aren't portable at all. > unfortunately, I have no good example in my mind right now, sorry. test x$variable == x -- Thomas Seck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 15:50: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C4937B400; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C42543E6A; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0419.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.164] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XUx5-00062u-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:49:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3D3F2EDF.8106FFEC@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:49:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Alexey Dokuchaev , "Matthew D. Fuller" , "Brian F. Feldman" , Mark Valentine , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) References: <200207231706.g6NH6XOV076926@dotar.thuvia.org> <200207231745.g6NHjfZ47049@green.bikeshed.org> <20020723191638.GA53463@over-yonder.net> <20020724121335.A42303@regency.nsu.ru> <20020724134228.GA4475@gits.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 12:13:35PM +0700, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > Wait, doesn't Linux (all of them) just have sh -> bash ? > > the reason why many GNU/Litnux `sh' scripts aren't portable at all. > unfortunately, I have no good example in my mind right now, sorry. There are a number of packages which have "bash" dependencies because the output of autconf can't use sh to run because the configure.in was written to output bash-isms. Specifically, reinterpretation of variables containing variable names. Please see my use of "eval" in the set of scripts I posted to -current to allow local configuration specification for things like auto-deletion of perl and other yes/no options that change semantics from one version of FreeBSD to another (part of the "how do I automatically get `make installworld' to get rid of old headers/perl/whatever" discussion). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 17: 8:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10ADF37B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (dav15.sea1.hotmail.com [207.68.162.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC47843E65 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from flieslikeabrick@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:08:24 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [24.188.46.196] From: "Ryan Rawdon" To: Subject: Free BSD Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:06:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2334D.A89C2920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2002 00:08:24.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[64BEAF80:01C2336F] Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2334D.A89C2920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable where can i download freebsd? i cannot find a html/ftp download site plz = send me a link directly to the file thank you so much -RLR ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2334D.A89C2920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
where can i download freebsd? i cannot = find a=20 html/ftp download site plz send me a link directly to the = file
thank you so much
-RLR
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2334D.A89C2920-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 17:40: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506AF37B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CFB43E6A for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:40:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020725004006.BESE1451.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:40:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05999; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:22:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Ryan Rawdon Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Free BSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.freebsd.org/ On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Ryan Rawdon wrote: > where can i download freebsd? i cannot find a html/ftp download site plz send me a link directly to the file > thank you so much > -RLR > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 19:33:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EE337B400 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DF543E31 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:33:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 11194549 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 2002 02:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2002 02:33:33 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (pdmwoihkmmka982h@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6P2XXq4052365; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:33:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6P2XW9K052364; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:33:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 04:33:32 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Mark Valentine Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020725023332.GD4475@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> <200207241616.g6OGGxjB027249@dotar.thuvia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200207241616.g6OGGxjB027249@dotar.thuvia.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 05:16:59PM +0100, Mark Valentine wrote: > > On Wed 24 Jul, 2002, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: [snip] > > well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many features > > (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and builtin dynamic > > loading... > > Yes, it seems to have come a long way since I last looked at it years ago. > > I've installed it and I'm wading through the documentation. good luck :) > It seems to have the features we need, and the license, but I'm not sure > if there could ever be agreement to get it in the base system, probably > because it's another moving target - base system utilities generally want > to to be small and stable. also, I guess it take even more room than sh or pdksh. > Yes, it's a pity. Though I don't think I'd ever use ksh as an interactive > shell (my fingers have absolute requirements on command history and [snip] let's try this one : http://clefevre.freesurf.fr/pdksh-1.tgz then bind '^?'=eot-or-delete bind '^[^?'=delete-word-forward bind '^i'=complete-list bind '^v'=quote bind '^[O'=prefix-2 bind '^XA'=up-history bind '^XB'=down-history bind '^XC'=forward-char bind '^XD'=backward-char bind '^XH'=beginning-of-line bind '^XF'=end-of-line bind '^X1~'=beginning-of-line bind '^X2~'=yank bind '^X4~'=end-of-line bind '^X5~'=up-history bind '^X6~'=down-history and everything should be all right :) it's a ready to import :) merge of OpenBSD pdksh (the one they use as the base system sh/ksh) and the official pdksh distrib. OpenBSD add-on is a better completion handling than the original one. I've submitted patches to the official maintainer. don't know if it take them or not. I use it since late May w/o any problem. I'm still waiting a lot before to submit a PR... PS : take care, the archive contains CVS directories related to OpenBSD. also, don't forget to make `patch < bin/ksh.patch'. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 23:39:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04DC37B401 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3.kornet.net (relay3.kornet.net [211.48.62.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C5343E81 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hyun10310@kornet.net) Received: from [61.73.109.27] (61.73.109.27) by relay3.kornet.net; 25 Jul 2002 15:39:11 +0900 Message-ID: <3d3f9d113d41f063@relay3.kornet.net> (added by relay3.kornet.net) From: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?vsbAzL+lvsbAzMDM?= To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: 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dGFibGU+CiAgICAgICAgICA8L3RkPgogICAgICAgIDwvdHI+CiAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+CiAg ICA8L3RkPgogIDwvdHI+CjwvdGFibGU+CjwvYm9keT4KPC9odG1sPgoK ------=_NextPart_000_0147_01C0F32A.93A36C00-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 23:43: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7CDB37B405 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC5C43E4A for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g6P6gP960434; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:42:25 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:42:25 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Makoto Matsushita Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for Review: more pristine environment for release build Message-ID: <20020725064225.GD56367@sunbay.com> References: <20020608180049M.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="76DTJ5CE0DCVQemd" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020608180049M.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --76DTJ5CE0DCVQemd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:00:49PM +0900, Makoto Matsushita wrote: >=20 > Current chroot sandbox inherits parent's environment variables. > However, there is only 'PATH' environment variable which should be > inherited from the parent. Since there are several _fixed_ > directories to be listed in PATH, we can safely listed directories in > static. >=20 > Following patch enables that: > * PATH list is set statically. > * Use 'env -i' to eliminate parent environment variables when > starting chroot(8) sandbox. >=20 > Note: > 1) '/sbin' should be listed in PATH (/sbin/{u,}mount will be > there). I don't know about '/usr/sbin', but it is safe for > us IMHO. > 2) 'chroot' should be full-path, since /bin/sh's default PATH > is "/bin:/usr/bin"; without full-path, env can't start chroot. >=20 > If there are no problems, I'll commit it later (maybe several days > after or so). Any comments, suggestions, and objections are welcome. >=20 This had only one disadvantage so far. I could no longer pass NO_WERROR globally through the environment; passing it with WORLD_FLAGS/KERNEL_FLAGS does not make it propagate to release.5. JFYI. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age --76DTJ5CE0DCVQemd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9P53RUkv4P6juNwoRAjBNAJwP7oETMosQYA6uaJkG5c+6u0+WAQCeJF1U DuL/fOqjYen1NATbeLT+o0k= =EsH7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --76DTJ5CE0DCVQemd-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jul 24 23:54:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85DC37B400; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from castle.jp.FreeBSD.org (castle.jp.FreeBSD.org [210.226.20.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6812F43E65; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [::1]) by castle.jp.FreeBSD.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.3) with ESMTP/inet6 id g6P6sCn55259; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:54:13 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org) Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020725064225.GD56367@sunbay.com> References: <20020608180049M.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> <20020725064225.GD56367@sunbay.com> X-User-Agent: Mew/1.94.2 XEmacs/21.5 (bamboo) X-FaceAnim: (-O_O-)(O_O- )(_O- )(O- )(- -)( -O)( -O_)( -O_O)(-O_O-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 14 From: Makoto Matsushita To: ru@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for Review: more pristine environment for release build Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:54:08 +0900 Message-Id: <20020725155408B.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ru> This had only one disadvantage so far. I could no longer pass NO_WERROR ru> globally through the environment; passing it with WORLD_FLAGS/KERNEL_FLAGS ru> does not make it propagate to release.5. JFYI. Ya, that's right, thanks. Quick workaround is to put NO_WERROR to ${CHROOT}/etc/make.conf (LOCAL_PATCHES can be used). However, maybe it is better to describe explicitly in ${CHROOT}/mk if parent environment defines NO_WRROR. I'll make a patch later (maybe this evening). -- - Makoto `MAR' Matsushita To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 0:21:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C23637B400; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D76A43E5E; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g6P71jq61986; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:01:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:01:45 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Bruce Evans Cc: Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KlAEzMkarCnErv5Q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --KlAEzMkarCnErv5Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:42:59PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Doug Barton wrote: >=20 > > Mike Barcroft wrote: > > > > > > Is anyone planning to do something about the hugely confusing state of > > > NO/NO_ options? I can never remember which options have an underscore > > > after the NO, so I end up writing commands like > > > `make kernel ... NO_KERNELCLEAN=3Dtrue NOKERNELCLEAN=3Dtrue'. It wou= ld > > > very nice if we could standardize this and add some compatibility > > > shims for historical spellings. > > > > In the past versions of this conversation, the general agreement is that > > going forward we should probably standardize on underscores to seperate > > words. So, NO_FOO rather than NOFOO. However, no_volunteer has come > > forward to do the work you've described, so if you're volunteering.... > > :) >=20 > On my list of things to fix after the changing the spelling of "nothing" > to "no thing". :-) :-) >=20 I'd volunteer to do it if we could come up to a (violent) agreement. We'd provide the compatibility knobs that would also trigger a warning (a .warning to be added to make(1)) that NO_FOO should now be used instead of NOFOO (or vice versa, if we decide to go that way). I would personally prefer the NO_FOOs since these would make things more readable and disambiguate the things like NORMAL, NOTES, NODES. What's NODES? node(s) or "no DES"? :-) Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age --KlAEzMkarCnErv5Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9P6JZUkv4P6juNwoRAhD1AKCHEnloIk1fUAGncIJdh+Nb2V0cNgCgiCPv GF5lF2fpAuhXm19AAbjReig= =oKcK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KlAEzMkarCnErv5Q-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 2: 2:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEF37B400 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700FC43E4A for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g6P91J378611; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:01:19 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:01:19 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Makoto Matsushita Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for Review: more pristine environment for release build Message-ID: <20020725090118.GA74145@sunbay.com> References: <20020608180049M.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> <20020725064225.GD56367@sunbay.com> <20020725155408B.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020725155408B.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 03:54:08PM +0900, Makoto Matsushita wrote: >=20 > ru> This had only one disadvantage so far. I could no longer pass NO_WER= ROR > ru> globally through the environment; passing it with WORLD_FLAGS/KERNEL_= FLAGS > ru> does not make it propagate to release.5. JFYI. >=20 > Ya, that's right, thanks. >=20 > Quick workaround is to put NO_WERROR to ${CHROOT}/etc/make.conf > (LOCAL_PATCHES can be used). However, maybe it is better to describe > explicitly in ${CHROOT}/mk if parent environment defines NO_WRROR. > I'll make a patch later (maybe this evening). >=20 One possible thing (that I tried) is to add ${WORLD_FLAGS} to the release.5's ${WMAKE} calls for crunchgen(1) generated binaries. I don't recall if this broke -j there (if WORLD_FLAGS is supplied with -j) or not, need to re-check. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9P75eUkv4P6juNwoRAuIMAKCKcJbsADDEXLA6FHGgL11t7fdgwgCffu8f q9B9uMEpOprPKo770YBDR00= =FGTZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 6:58:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1DF37B401 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 04A9743E91 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:58:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sruml@gmx.de) Received: (qmail 20610 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 2002 13:58:06 -0000 Received: from du-014-181.access.de.clara.net (HELO trunks) (212.82.249.181) by mail.gmx.net (mp018-rz3) with SMTP; 25 Jul 2002 13:58:06 -0000 Message-ID: <007001c233e3$a4c630c0$01000001@trunks> From: "sebastian ruml" To: Subject: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:00:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG auth 57c8e40b subscribe freebsd-arch sruml@gmx.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 9: 3:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5915F37B4CB; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D1443E70; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:03:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 32B06535D; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:03:54 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) References: <200207231916.g6NJGTj47459@green.bikeshed.org> <200207232048.g6NKmHQe028433@dotar.thuvia.org> <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 25 Jul 2002 18:03:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre writes: > well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many features > (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and builtin dynamic > loading... zsh is mostly a ksh clone. It can also emulate sh, csh and bash (and even understands csh scripting syntax), but it's possibly not a good enough sh clone to replace ash. At leat 3.x wasn't - I haven't checked the docs lately, so it's possible that 4.x is better. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 9:59:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E1D37B405 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612EC43E67 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:59:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 36960397 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 2002 16:59:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2002 16:59:49 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (qeyi245aaycuxyq0@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6PGxlq4071560; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:59:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6PGxe3Y071551; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:59:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:59:40 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:01:45AM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:42:59PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > > On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Doug Barton wrote: > > > Mike Barcroft wrote: > > > > Is anyone planning to do something about the hugely confusing state of > > > > NO/NO_ options? I can never remember which options have an underscore > > > > after the NO, so I end up writing commands like > > > > `make kernel ... NO_KERNELCLEAN=true NOKERNELCLEAN=true'. It would > > > > very nice if we could standardize this and add some compatibility > > > > shims for historical spellings. > > > > > > In the past versions of this conversation, the general agreement is that > > > going forward we should probably standardize on underscores to seperate > > > words. So, NO_FOO rather than NOFOO. However, no_volunteer has come > > > forward to do the work you've described, so if you're volunteering.... > > > :) > > > > On my list of things to fix after the changing the spelling of "nothing" > > to "no thing". :-) :-) > > > I'd volunteer to do it if we could come up to a (violent) agreement. > > We'd provide the compatibility knobs that would also trigger a warning > (a .warning to be added to make(1)) that NO_FOO should now be used > instead of NOFOO (or vice versa, if we decide to go that way). .warning isn't needed, let's try w/ .BEGIN :) NOBAD= true NO_GOOD=true NOWARN= true NO_WARN=true NOERR= true NO_ERR= false _NO_VARS= BAD GOOD WARN ERR TOTO .BEGIN: .for var in ${_NO_VARS} .if defined(NO${var}) . if defined(NO_${var}) . if ${NO${var}} != ${NO_${var}} # maybe this should be a .error ? @${ECHO_CMD} "warning: both NO_${var} and NO${var} are defined and" \ "have different values -- using NO_${var} and unsetting NO${var}." . else @${ECHO_CMD} "warning: both NO_${var} and NO${var} are defined" \ "-- using NO_${var} and unsetting NO${var}." . endif . else @${ECHO_CMD} "warning: NO_${var} should be defined in place of NO${var}" \ "-- setting NO_${var} as NO${var} and unsetting NO${var}." . endif .endif .endfor .for var in ${_NO_VARS} .if defined(NO${var}) . if !defined(NO_${var}) NO_${var}:=${NO${var}} . endif . undef NO${var} .endif .endfor all: @${ECHO_CMD} BAD=${NOBAD}:${NO_BAD} @${ECHO_CMD} GOOD=${NOGOOD}:${NO_GOOD} @${ECHO_CMD} WARN=${NOWARN}:${NO_WARN} @${ECHO_CMD} ERR=${NOERR}:${NO_ERR} a non-exhaustive list of NO[^_] variable is : NOTAGS NODOCCOMPRESS NOINFO NOINFOCOMPRESS NOPIC NOPROFILE NOEXTRADEPEND NOFCSCHG NOSHARED NOMAN NOMANCOMPRESS NOMLINKS NOOBJ NOSGMLCOMPRESS NOCLEAN NOCLEANDIR NOMAN NOGAMES NOPERL NOLIBC_R NOHTML NODOC NOKERBEROS NOPORTREADMES NOPORTS NOSRC NODESCRYPTLINKS NOCRYPT NOSECURE NOSHARE NOFORTH NOLIB NOPAM NOUUCP NOALIAS NOI4B NOINET6 NOKLDLOAD NONAT NONETGRAPH NORADIUS NOSUID NOIPSEC I'll try to make another knob for variable conversion such as : NOALIAS -> PPP_NO_ALIAS, etc. > I would personally prefer the NO_FOOs since these would make things > more readable and disambiguate the things like NORMAL, NOTES, NODES. > What's NODES? node(s) or "no DES"? :-) agreed. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 10:10:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D800637B400; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E8743E4A; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g6PH9en40998; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:09:40 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:09:40 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:59:40PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:01:45AM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:42:59PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > > > On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Doug Barton wrote: > > > > Mike Barcroft wrote: > > > > > Is anyone planning to do something about the hugely confusing sta= te of > > > > > NO/NO_ options? I can never remember which options have an under= score > > > > > after the NO, so I end up writing commands like > > > > > `make kernel ... NO_KERNELCLEAN=3Dtrue NOKERNELCLEAN=3Dtrue'. It= would > > > > > very nice if we could standardize this and add some compatibility > > > > > shims for historical spellings. > > > > > > > > In the past versions of this conversation, the general agreement is= that > > > > going forward we should probably standardize on underscores to sepe= rate > > > > words. So, NO_FOO rather than NOFOO. However, no_volunteer has come > > > > forward to do the work you've described, so if you're volunteering.= ... > > > > :) > > >=20 > > > On my list of things to fix after the changing the spelling of "nothi= ng" > > > to "no thing". :-) :-) > > >=20 > > I'd volunteer to do it if we could come up to a (violent) agreement. > >=20 > > We'd provide the compatibility knobs that would also trigger a warning > > (a .warning to be added to make(1)) that NO_FOO should now be used > > instead of NOFOO (or vice versa, if we decide to go that way). >=20 > .warning isn't needed, let's try w/ .BEGIN :) >=20 > NOBAD=3D true > NO_GOOD=3Dtrue > NOWARN=3D true > NO_WARN=3Dtrue > NOERR=3D true > NO_ERR=3D false >=20 > _NO_VARS=3D BAD GOOD WARN ERR TOTO >=20 > .BEGIN: > .for var in ${_NO_VARS} > .if defined(NO${var}) > . if defined(NO_${var}) > . if ${NO${var}} !=3D ${NO_${var}} > # maybe this should be a .error ? > @${ECHO_CMD} "warning: both NO_${var} and NO${var} are defined and" \ > "have different values -- using NO_${var} and unsetting NO${var}." > . else > @${ECHO_CMD} "warning: both NO_${var} and NO${var} are defined" \ > "-- using NO_${var} and unsetting NO${var}." > . endif > . else > @${ECHO_CMD} "warning: NO_${var} should be defined in place of NO${var}"= \ > "-- setting NO_${var} as NO${var} and unsetting NO${var}." > . endif > .endif > .endfor >=20 > .for var in ${_NO_VARS} > .if defined(NO${var}) > . if !defined(NO_${var}) > NO_${var}:=3D${NO${var}} > . endif > . undef NO${var} > .endif > .endfor >=20 > all: > @${ECHO_CMD} BAD=3D${NOBAD}:${NO_BAD} > @${ECHO_CMD} GOOD=3D${NOGOOD}:${NO_GOOD} > @${ECHO_CMD} WARN=3D${NOWARN}:${NO_WARN} > @${ECHO_CMD} ERR=3D${NOERR}:${NO_ERR} >=20 > a non-exhaustive list of NO[^_] variable is : >=20 > NOTAGS NODOCCOMPRESS NOINFO NOINFOCOMPRESS NOPIC NOPROFILE NOEXTRADEPEND > NOFCSCHG NOSHARED NOMAN NOMANCOMPRESS NOMLINKS NOOBJ NOSGMLCOMPRESS > NOCLEAN NOCLEANDIR NOMAN NOGAMES NOPERL NOLIBC_R NOHTML NODOC > NOKERBEROS NOPORTREADMES NOPORTS NOSRC NODESCRYPTLINKS NOCRYPT > NOSECURE NOSHARE NOFORTH NOLIB NOPAM NOUUCP NOALIAS NOI4B NOINET6 > NOKLDLOAD NONAT NONETGRAPH NORADIUS NOSUID NOIPSEC >=20 > I'll try to make another knob for variable conversion such as : > NOALIAS -> PPP_NO_ALIAS, etc. >=20 > > I would personally prefer the NO_FOOs since these would make things > > more readable and disambiguate the things like NORMAL, NOTES, NODES. > > What's NODES? node(s) or "no DES"? :-) >=20 > agreed. >=20 Sounds like a plan. :-) Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9QDDUUkv4P6juNwoRAomcAJ9gL9HhlJCxUPlKr5PKj2RAb00eKACeJGNs 1ycTCzsZlgLLnMA5nEA4zeo= =U3Br -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 10:29: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C620137B400 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from w250.z064001178.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net (adsl-66.218.45.239.dslextreme.com [66.218.45.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AD8B943E3B for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:29:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jos@catnook.com) Received: (qmail 4170 invoked by uid 1000); 25 Jul 2002 17:29:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:29:01 -0700 From: Jos Backus To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020725172923.GB8443@lizzy.catnook.com> Reply-To: jos@catnook.com Mail-Followup-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Cyrille Lefevre , Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200207231916.g6NJGTj47459@green.bikeshed.org> <200207232048.g6NKmHQe028433@dotar.thuvia.org> <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:03:53PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Cyrille Lefevre writes: > > well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many features > > (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and builtin dynamic > > loading... > > zsh is mostly a ksh clone. It can also emulate sh, csh and bash (and > even understands csh scripting syntax), but it's possibly not a good > enough sh clone to replace ash. At leat 3.x wasn't - I haven't > checked the docs lately, so it's possible that 4.x is better. Fyi, OS X used to use it as its /bin/sh but they dropped it because it didn't work well with their scripts. Unfortunately they never bothered to raise these issues with the zsh developers. But: they used an old version (3.0.*) and some discussion on zsh-workers leads me to believe that at least some of their scripts are just broken. Furthermore, in my experience the zsh people are very willing to work out compatibility and standards issues. Plus, the license seems to be BSD-friendly. -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ Santa Clara, CA _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jos@catnook.com _/_/ _/_/_/ require 'std/disclaimer' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 10:46:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3CE537B400 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from felix.automagic.org (felix.automagic.org [204.152.186.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 563B243E5E for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:46:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@automagic.org) Received: (qmail 68749 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jul 2002 17:46:04 -0000 Received: from localhost.automagic.org (HELO hyperion.automagic.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost.automagic.org with SMTP; 25 Jul 2002 17:46:04 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:45:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <6143E151-9FF6-11D6-AA65-00039312C852@automagic.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 12:03 , Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Cyrille Lefevre writes: >> well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many features >> (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and builtin dynamic >> loading... > > zsh is mostly a ksh clone. It can also emulate sh, csh and bash (and > even understands csh scripting syntax), but it's possibly not a good > enough sh clone to replace ash. At leat 3.x wasn't - I haven't > checked the docs lately, so it's possible that 4.x is better. Apple think zsh is good enough, fwtw: [jabley@hyperion]% ls -ali /bin/sh /bin/zsh 6027431 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 449616 Jul 12 19:04 /bin/sh 6027442 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 449616 Jul 12 19:04 /bin/zsh [jabley@hyperion]% diff /bin/sh /bin/zsh [jabley@hyperion]% uname -a Darwin hyperion.automagic.org 5.5 Darwin Kernel Version 5.5: Thu May 30 14:51:26 PDT 2002; root:xnu/xnu-201.42.3.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc [jabley@hyperion]% To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 12:19:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D66837B400; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5996E43E31; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:19:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) id g6PJJPwW046495; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:19:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:19:25 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Mark Valentine , "Brian F. Feldman" , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Message-ID: <20020725191925.GB62267@dan.emsphone.com> References: <200207231916.g6NJGTj47459@green.bikeshed.org> <200207232048.g6NKmHQe028433@dotar.thuvia.org> <20020724135321.GB4475@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Jul 25), Dag-Erling Smorgrav said: > Cyrille Lefevre writes: > > well, I have a very low knowledge about zsh, but it has many > > features (maybe too much, IMHO) such as associative arrays and > > builtin dynamic loading... > > zsh is mostly a ksh clone. It can also emulate sh, csh and bash (and > even understands csh scripting syntax), but it's possibly not a good > enough sh clone to replace ash. At least 3.x wasn't - I haven't > checked the docs lately, so it's possible that 4.x is better. zsh's only drawback is it's comparatively huge when statically-linked; 1MB vs 500k for pdksh, and when statically linked, you can't load modules (although this is a FreeBSD dlopen() limitation in general, isn't it). -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 12:42:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006E637B400 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E64743E3B for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:42:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g6PJgIgc041758; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:42:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6143E151-9FF6-11D6-AA65-00039312C852@automagic.org> References: <6143E151-9FF6-11D6-AA65-00039312C852@automagic.org> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:42:17 -0400 To: Joe Abley From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?) Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:45 PM -0400 7/25/02, Joe Abley wrote: >Apple think zsh is good enough, fwtw: > >[jabley@hyperion]% ls -ali /bin/sh /bin/zsh >6027431 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 449616 Jul 12 19:04 /bin/sh >6027442 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 449616 Jul 12 19:04 /bin/zsh Actually, if you follow the darwin lists you'll see that Apple intends to switch away from zsh for /bin/sh, because they have too many bug reports on it. [ you might debate *why* they have so many bug reports, but in any case, soon you will not be able to point to them using zsh for /bin/sh] -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jul 25 12:55:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8D437B400 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A52443E3B for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:55:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from mango.local. (jkh@mango.freebsd.com [64.173.15.99]) by jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6PJt0ux070184; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:55:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:56:12 -0700 Subject: zsh vs bash (was Re: Scripting languages (was: Re: Package system flaws?)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v540) Cc: Joe Abley , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG To: Garance A Drosihn From: Jordan K Hubbard In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <922DEE83-A008-11D6-BD35-0003938C7B7E@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.540) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, I think this characterization of our decision (well, my decision, just to put the blame firmly where it belongs) is a little unfair. The reason we switched from /bin/zsh to /bin/bash as "/bin/sh" were complex and not driven by bug counts so much as they were driven by issues like POSIX compatibility (zsh allows some of the most interesting constructs, like assigning values to positional parameters and quite a few other things which have gotten [ab]users of those features into trouble), performance (as measured by runtimes of some known shell scripts), memory and disk footprint, and finally, the fact that Chet is a nice guy who always responds to our emails promptly. :-) To continue to be fair, we also did a lot of our measurements against zsh 3.x, which is the version of zsh we were using at the time. I have seen considerable improvement put into zsh in 4.x, enough that we also took care to update our /bin/zsh to 4.x for Jaguar. I still, however, think that the notion of /bin/bash as /bin/sh is widespread enough (and well-tested enough by the Linux hoards) that we did the right thing to switch. What a lot of folks may not know is that /bin/bash does a pretty thorough job of lobotomizing itself into POSIX conformance when invoked as /bin/sh, preventing users from writing non-portable shell scripts that rely on bash-isms unless they explicitly call out to /bin/bash at the top (which is as it should be). - Jordan On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 12:42 PM, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 1:45 PM -0400 7/25/02, Joe Abley wrote: >> Apple think zsh is good enough, fwtw: >> >> [jabley@hyperion]% ls -ali /bin/sh /bin/zsh >> 6027431 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 449616 Jul 12 19:04 /bin/sh >> 6027442 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 449616 Jul 12 19:04 /bin/zsh > > Actually, if you follow the darwin lists you'll see that Apple > intends to switch away from zsh for /bin/sh, because they have > too many bug reports on it. > > [ you might debate *why* they have so many bug reports, but > in any case, soon you will not be able to point to them > using zsh for /bin/sh] > > -- > Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu > Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jul 26 6:59:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B8937B405 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF9243E67 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 57433094 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jul 2002 13:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Jul 2002 13:59:42 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (ggskmvydhbka1wxp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6QDxfwZ091868; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:59:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6QDxNg7091863; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:59:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:59:23 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Juli Mallett Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 08:09:40PM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:59:40PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:01:45AM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: [snip] > > > We'd provide the compatibility knobs that would also trigger a warning > > > (a .warning to be added to make(1)) that NO_FOO should now be used > > > instead of NOFOO (or vice versa, if we decide to go that way). > > > > .warning isn't needed, let's try w/ .BEGIN :) well, il fact, a .warning is needed for the newer knob because it seems you can't do something like this : .for something .BEGIN: something .endfor nor .for something targets+= ${something} pseudo_target: something .endfor .BEGIN: ${something} nor .for something pseudo_target: .USE something .endfor .BEGIN: pseudo_target [snip] > > I'll try to make another knob for variable conversion such as : > > NOALIAS -> PPP_NO_ALIAS, etc. here is the newer knob which is more universal than the first one + some patches to make... also, a set of command to help the transition :) OLDBAD= true NEWGOOD=true OLDWARN=true NEWWARN=true OLDERR= true NEWERR= false NOBAD= true NO_GOOD=true NOWARN= true NO_WARN=true NOERR= true NO_ERR= false _ASSOC_VARS= OLDBAD NEWBAD OLDGOOD NEWGOOD OLDWARN NEWWARN OLDERR NEWERR _NO_VARS= BAD GOOD WARN ERR .for _var in ${_NO_VARS} _ASSOC_VARS+= NO${_var} NO_${_var} .endfor _old= .for _new in ${_ASSOC_VARS} . if empty(_old) _old= ${_new} . else . if defined(${_old}) . if defined(${_new}) . if ${${_old}} != ${${_new}} . warning both ${_new} and ${_old} are defined with a different value --\ using ${_new} and unsetting ${_old}. . else . warning both ${_new} and ${_old} are defined with the same value --\ using ${_new} and unsetting ${_old}. . endif . else . warning ${_new} should be defined in place of ${_old} --\ using ${_new} with the value of ${_old} and unsetting ${_old}. ${_new}:=${${_old}} . endif . undef ${_old} . endif _old= . endif .endfor all: @${ECHO_CMD} renamed variables @${ECHO_CMD} BAD=${OLDBAD}:${NEWBAD} @${ECHO_CMD} GOOD=${OLDGOOD}:${NEWGOOD} @${ECHO_CMD} WARN=${OLDWARN}:${NEWWARN} @${ECHO_CMD} ERR=${OLDERR}:${NEWERR} @${ECHO_CMD} no variables @${ECHO_CMD} BAD=${NOBAD}:${NO_BAD} @${ECHO_CMD} GOOD=${NOGOOD}:${NO_GOOD} @${ECHO_CMD} WARN=${NOWARN}:${NO_WARN} @${ECHO_CMD} ERR=${NOERR}:${NO_ERR} parce.c saveline added to make lineno happy in `.for' loops. ParseDoWarning added Var_Subst added in `.undef' to avoid inconsistencies such as : .for var in ${vars} .undef ${var} .endfor vs. .for var in ${vars} tmp=${var} .undef ${tmp} .endfor Index: parse.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.bin/make/parse.c,v retrieving revision 1.22 diff -u -r1.22 parse.c --- parse.c 28 Aug 1999 01:03:35 -0000 1.22 +++ parse.c 26 Jul 2002 02:12:52 -0000 @@ -120,6 +120,7 @@ static char *fname; /* name of current file (for errors) */ static int lineno; /* line number in current file */ +static int savedlineno; /* saved line number */ static FILE *curFILE = NULL; /* current makefile */ static PTR *curPTR = NULL; /* current makefile */ @@ -252,6 +253,7 @@ static void ParseUnreadc __P((int)); static void ParseHasCommands __P((ClientData)); static void ParseDoInclude __P((char *)); +static void ParseDoWarning __P((char *)); static void ParseDoError __P((char *)); #ifdef SYSVINCLUDE static void ParseTraditionalInclude __P((char *)); @@ -1557,6 +1559,33 @@ } /*--------------------------------------------------------------------- + * ParseDoWarning -- + * Handle warning directive + * + * The input is the line minus the ".warning". We substitute variables + * and the message or print a warning if the ".warning" directive is + * malformed. + * + *--------------------------------------------------------------------- + */ +static void +ParseDoWarning(errmsg) + char *errmsg; /* error message */ +{ + if (!isspace(*errmsg)) { + Parse_Error(PARSE_WARNING, "invalid syntax: .warning%s", errmsg); + return; + } + + while (isspace(*errmsg)) + errmsg++; + + errmsg = Var_Subst(NULL, errmsg, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); + + Parse_Error(PARSE_WARNING, "%s", errmsg); +} + +/*--------------------------------------------------------------------- * ParseDoError -- * Handle error directive * @@ -1580,8 +1609,7 @@ errmsg = Var_Subst(NULL, errmsg, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); - /* use fprintf/exit instead of Parse_Error to terminate immediately */ - fprintf(stderr, "\"%s\", line %d: %s\n", fname, lineno, errmsg); + Parse_Error(PARSE_FATAL, "%s", errmsg); exit(1); } @@ -1801,7 +1829,7 @@ curFILE = NULL; curPTR = (PTR *) emalloc (sizeof (PTR)); curPTR->str = curPTR->ptr = str; - lineno = 0; + lineno = savedlineno; fname = estrdup(fname); } @@ -2321,6 +2349,7 @@ if (For_Eval(line)) { int ok; free(line); + savedlineno = lineno; do { /* * Skip after the matching end @@ -2421,7 +2450,10 @@ goto nextLine; } else if (strncmp (cp, "error", 5) == 0) { ParseDoError(cp + 5); - goto nextLine; + /* NOTREACHED */ + } else if (strncmp (cp, "warning", 7) == 0) { + ParseDoWarning(cp + 7); + goto nextLine; } else if (strncmp(cp, "undef", 5) == 0) { char *cp2; for (cp += 5; isspace((unsigned char) *cp); cp++) { @@ -2434,6 +2466,8 @@ } *cp2 = '\0'; + + cp = Var_Subst(NULL, cp, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); Var_Delete(cp, VAR_GLOBAL); goto nextLine; find . -name 'Makefile*' -o -name 'bsd.*.mk' | egrep -v '[./](new|old)[/:]' | xargs egrep '(^\. *if(n?def)|defined) *\(?NO[^_]' /dev/null >| /tmp/no1 sed -E -e 's/\.if(n?def)? //;s/exists *([^)]+)//g;s/ *[|&=][|&=] *//g' \ -e 's/!? *defined//g;s/[()\\"]/ /g;s/\${MACHINE_ARCH}//g' \ -e 's/ i386//g;s/alpha//g;s/:/ /g;s/ +/ /g;s|^\./||' /tmp/no1 >| /tmp/no2 awk '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)if($i~/^NO[^_]/)print $1,$i}' /tmp/no2 | sort -u >| /tmp/no3 awk '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)if($i~/^NO[^_]/)print $i,$1}' /tmp/no2 | sort -u >| /tmp/no4 awk '$1!=f{if(f)print f;f=$1;printf "sed -E -i.bak"} {v=$2;sub("NO","&_",v); printf " -e %cs/%s([^A-Z_]|$)/%s\\1/g%c ", 39, $2, v, 39} END{print f}' /tmp/no3 >| /tmp/no5 awk '$1!=v{if(v){sub("NO","",v);print "_NO_VARS+=\t"v};v=$1} {print "#", $2} END{sub("NO","",v);print "_NO_VARS+=\t"v}' /tmp/no4 >| /tmp/no6 sed -E -e 's/([^A-Z_])(ALIAS|I4B|KLDLOAD|NAT|NETGRAPH|RADIUS|SUID)([^A-Z_]|$)/\1NO\2 PPP_NO\2\3/' \ -e 't e' -e b -e :e -e 's/_NO_VARS/_ASSOC_VARS/' /tmp/no6 >| /tmp/no7 no5 contains the sed commands to replace every occurences of NOFOO to NO_FOO in every files no6 contains the list (_NO_VARS) of NO variables for the above knob no7 same a no6 except that NOFOO ppp variables have been renamed to PPP_NOFOO and put in _ASSOC_VARS hope this help :) PS : about the make patch, I could submit a PR if you prefer ? CC -jmallett Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jul 26 8:25:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 43DFE37B400; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:25:27 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Ruslan Ermilov , Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020726082527.A69507@FreeBSD.org> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org>; from cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net on Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 03:59:23PM +0200 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , X-Towel: Yes X-LiveJournal: flata, jmallett X-Negacore: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * De: Cyrille Lefevre [ Data: 2002-07-26 ] [ Subjecte: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) ] > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 08:09:40PM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:59:40PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:01:45AM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > [snip] > > > > We'd provide the compatibility knobs that would also trigger a warning > > > > (a .warning to be added to make(1)) that NO_FOO should now be used > > > > instead of NOFOO (or vice versa, if we decide to go that way). > > > > > > .warning isn't needed, let's try w/ .BEGIN :) > > well, il fact, a .warning is needed for the newer knob because > it seems you can't do something like this : Can't you use a double-colon rule to accomplish that? Also, the diff seems reasonable, but you really do want to keep in mind that most places where make(1) substitutes/expands variables, it will be allocating memory. Leaks bad. juli. > - /* use fprintf/exit instead of Parse_Error to terminate immediately */ > - fprintf(stderr, "\"%s\", line %d: %s\n", fname, lineno, errmsg); > + Parse_Error(PARSE_FATAL, "%s", errmsg); > exit(1); This seems like a regression. -- Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jul 26 8:37:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61AF137B407 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671BB43E6E for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:37:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 34991556 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jul 2002 15:37:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Jul 2002 15:37:02 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (a98oflux7e3tmu1p@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6QFb2wZ093710; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:37:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6QFb2t8093705; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:37:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:37:01 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Juli Mallett Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020726153701.GA93459@gits.dyndns.org> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 03:59:23PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: [snip] > find . -name 'Makefile*' -o -name 'bsd.*.mk' | > egrep -v '[./](new|old)[/:]' | > xargs egrep '(^\. *if(n?def)|defined) *\(?NO[^_]' /dev/null >| /tmp/no1 > sed -E -e 's/\.if(n?def)? //;s/exists *([^)]+)//g;s/ *[|&=][|&=] *//g' \ > -e 's/!? *defined//g;s/[()\\"]/ /g;s/\${MACHINE_ARCH}//g' \ > -e 's/ i386//g;s/alpha//g;s/:/ /g;s/ +/ /g;s|^\./||' /tmp/no1 >| /tmp/no2 > awk '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)if($i~/^NO[^_]/)print $1,$i}' /tmp/no2 | > sort -u >| /tmp/no3 > awk '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)if($i~/^NO[^_]/)print $i,$1}' /tmp/no2 | > sort -u >| /tmp/no4 > awk '$1!=f{if(f)print f;f=$1;printf "sed -E -i.bak"} > {v=$2;sub("NO","&_",v); > printf " -e %cs/%s([^A-Z_]|$)/%s\\1/g%c ", 39, $2, v, 39} > END{print f}' /tmp/no3 >| /tmp/no5 > awk '$1!=v{if(v){sub("NO","",v);print "_NO_VARS+=\t"v};v=$1} > {print "#", $2} > END{sub("NO","",v);print "_NO_VARS+=\t"v}' /tmp/no4 >| /tmp/no6 > sed -E -e 's/([^A-Z_])(ALIAS|I4B|KLDLOAD|NAT|NETGRAPH|RADIUS|SUID)([^A-Z_]|$)/\1NO\2 PPP_NO\2\3/' \ > -e 't e' -e b -e :e -e 's/_NO_VARS/_ASSOC_VARS/' /tmp/no6 >| /tmp/no7 > > no5 contains the sed commands to replace every occurences of NOFOO > to NO_FOO in every files > no6 contains the list (_NO_VARS) of NO variables for the above knob > no7 same a no6 except that NOFOO ppp variables have been renamed to PPP_NOFOO > and put in _ASSOC_VARS forgive me about no7, let's PPP vars as they are. oops! forgot about var assignments... egrep -v '[./](new|old|obsolete|bak[1-9])[/:]' | xargs egrep "^( *# *)?NO[^_]+" /dev/null | # NOINSTALLLIB is obsolete -- found in ./lib/libpam/modules/Makefile.inc egrep -v 'NORMAL|NOTES?:|NOLIGFLAG|NOVARARGS|NONAP|NOLOG|NOASM|NOINSTALLLIB|NOTYET|NOPUSH' >| /tmp/no11 sed -E -e 's|^\./||;s/[+?:!]?=.*//;s/[#:]/ /g;s/ +/ /g' /tmp/no11 >| /tmp/no22 awk '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)if($i~/^NO[^_]/)print $1,$i}' /tmp/no22 | sort -u >| /tmp/no33 awk '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)if($i~/^NO[^_]/)print $i,$1}' /tmp/no22 | sort -u >| /tmp/no44 awk '$1!=f{if(f)print f;f=$1;printf "sed -E -i.bak2"} {v=$2;sub("NO","&_",v); printf " -e %cs/%s([^A-Z_]|$)/%s\\1/g%c ", 39, $2, v, 39} END{print f}' /tmp/no33 >| /tmp/no55 awk '$1!=v{if(v){sub("NO","",v);print "_NO_VARS+=\t"v};v=$1} {print "#", $2} END{sub("NO","",v);print "_NO_VARS+=\t"v}' /tmp/no44 >| /tmp/no66 no55 contains the sed commands to replace every occurences of NOFOO= to NO_FOO in every files no66 same as no6 but, for info only wait some time the build world finish... and I'll send you THE diff :) Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jul 26 8:44: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C849B37B409 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7264243E75 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (qmail 37447922 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jul 2002 15:43:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.229.153]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Jul 2002 15:43:49 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (ooyafgry02etb0c8@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g6QFhjwZ093781; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:43:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g6QFhjXd093780; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:43:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:43:44 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Juli Mallett Cc: Ruslan Ermilov , Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020726154344.GB93459@gits.dyndns.org> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org> <20020726082527.A69507@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020726082527.A69507@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 08:25:27AM -0700, Juli Mallett wrote: > * De: Cyrille Lefevre [ Data: 2002-07-26 ] > [ Subjecte: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) ] > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 08:09:40PM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:59:40PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:01:45AM +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > We'd provide the compatibility knobs that would also trigger a warning > > > > > (a .warning to be added to make(1)) that NO_FOO should now be used > > > > > instead of NOFOO (or vice versa, if we decide to go that way). > > > > > > > > .warning isn't needed, let's try w/ .BEGIN :) > > > > well, il fact, a .warning is needed for the newer knob because > > it seems you can't do something like this : > > Can't you use a double-colon rule to accomplish that? I've also tried w/o success. > Also, the diff seems reasonable, but you really do want to keep in mind > that most places where make(1) substitutes/expands variables, it will be > allocating memory. Leaks bad. re you saying that almost all occurences of : cp = Var_Subst(NULL, cp, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); should really be : cp2 = Var_Subst(NULL, cp, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); free(cp); cp = cp2; > > - /* use fprintf/exit instead of Parse_Error to terminate immediately */ > > - fprintf(stderr, "\"%s\", line %d: %s\n", fname, lineno, errmsg); > > + Parse_Error(PARSE_FATAL, "%s", errmsg); > > exit(1); > > This seems like a regression. looking at Parse_Error, there is no reason here to use fprintf instead ? Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jul 26 14:30:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 8E37B37B400; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:30:26 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Ruslan Ermilov , Bruce Evans , Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020726143026.B91221@FreeBSD.org> References: <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <20020609123557.X21758-100000@gamplex.bde.org> <20020725070145.GE56367@sunbay.com> <20020725165940.GF58642@gits.dyndns.org> <20020725170940.GA40574@sunbay.com> <20020726135923.GA89959@gits.dyndns.org> <20020726082527.A69507@FreeBSD.org> <20020726154344.GB93459@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020726154344.GB93459@gits.dyndns.org>; from cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net on Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 05:43:44PM +0200 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , X-Towel: Yes X-LiveJournal: flata, jmallett X-Negacore: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * De: Cyrille Lefevre [ Data: 2002-07-26 ] [ Subjecte: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) ] > > Also, the diff seems reasonable, but you really do want to keep in mind > > that most places where make(1) substitutes/expands variables, it will be > > allocating memory. Leaks bad. > > re you saying that almost all occurences of : > > cp = Var_Subst(NULL, cp, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); > > should really be : > > cp2 = Var_Subst(NULL, cp, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); > free(cp); > cp = cp2; No. imagine... static void Parse_PrintLineWithSubst(cp) char *cp; { cp = Var_Subst(NULL, cp, VAR_GLOBAL, FALSE); fprintf(stderr, "%s\n", cp); free(cp); } No need for a place-holder, sometimes. > > > - /* use fprintf/exit instead of Parse_Error to terminate immediately */ > > > - fprintf(stderr, "\"%s\", line %d: %s\n", fname, lineno, errmsg); > > > + Parse_Error(PARSE_FATAL, "%s", errmsg); > > > exit(1); > > > > This seems like a regression. > > looking at Parse_Error, there is no reason here to use fprintf instead ? You're right. I was thinking Parse_Error was slightly more heavyweight. -- Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jul 26 21:11: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A526A37B400; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C87143E5E; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g6R4AopO000495; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:10:50 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g6R4AoU5000494; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:10:50 -0700 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:10:50 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: net@freebsd.org Subject: switching to if_xname from if_name and if_unit Message-ID: <20020726211050.A30598@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Bcc to -arch for interested people not on -net] NetBSD and OpenBSD have replaced the "char *if_name" and "int if_unit" members of struct ifnet with "char if_xname[IFNAMESIZ]". I propose that we follow suit. Pros: - Better source compatibility with NetBSD and OpenBSD. - The ability to handle free-form device names. This could allow things like and advanced cloning interface for vlans that let you configure vlan X on interface nameY with "ifconfig nameY.X create". - Most uses of if_name and if_unit together really just want the full name of the device and the same with the majority of if_unit entries. The remaining if_unit usages are usually the result of sloppy code with hard wired limits on the number of devices that should be fixed. - We can implement the if_name() function without the current gross hacks. - Well defined maximum name size simplifies code. Cons: - Lost of source compatibility between 5.x and previous versions. [We've already lost it with the spls and in most drivers it's a two line change that you could handle with __FreeBSD_version if you wanted to.] - A few devices do have a legitimate use for use for the unit. [They can use the softc to store it. That's what NetBSD did.] - Well defined maximum name size limits length of name. [It's 16 bytes with is more then I'd want to type in to ifconfig.] - It touches 140-150 files. [Most of the changes are minor in nature and I'm about halfway through with 2-3hrs of work.] - Slight bloating of struct ifnet (8 bytes on normal 32-bit architectures). [None on 64-bit arches.] - We've resisted for 8 years, we can't stop now. :-) What do other people think? -- Brooks PS. Here the diff for a typical interface (around half have only the initialization change and most others have more, but similar debugging output changes): RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/dev/ep/if_ep.c,v retrieving revision 1.109 diff -u -p -r1.109 if_ep.c --- ep/if_ep.c 20 Mar 2002 02:07:19 -0000 1.109 +++ ep/if_ep.c 26 Jul 2002 06:55:58 -0000 @@ -280,8 +280,7 @@ ep_attach(sc) attached =3D (ifp->if_softc !=3D 0); =20 ifp->if_softc =3D sc; - ifp->if_unit =3D sc->unit; - ifp->if_name =3D "ep"; + sprintf(ifp->if_xname, "ep%d", sc->unit); ifp->if_mtu =3D ETHERMTU; ifp->if_flags =3D IFF_BROADCAST | IFF_SIMPLEX | IFF_MULTICAST; ifp->if_output =3D ether_output; @@ -917,7 +916,7 @@ ep_if_watchdog(ifp) /* printf("ep: watchdog\n"); =20 - log(LOG_ERR, "ep%d: watchdog\n", ifp->if_unit); + log(LOG_ERR, "%s: watchdog\n", ifp->if_xname); ifp->if_oerrors++; */ =20 --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9Qh1IXY6L6fI4GtQRAquDAJ9jKQf6WETQotJOtNc+nNeA6Lc4NgCfa16L WgNyRmierxeARLWN+JMPkpQ= =QQr1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message