From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 1:11:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1277937B400 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 17424 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 09:11:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.95) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 09:11:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:09:27 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: >Chris Mason wrote: > >>Claim 44 is probably the most difficult, although I think this: >> >>"where said common writes and said function calls have common order >>dependencies CD1, CD2, . . . , CDcd that preserve the update order >>dependencies D1, D2, . . . , Dd between the operations in the requests, >>where cd is an integer, " >> >>Restricts it to systems that preserve the ordering of the requests >>inside the combined common write. In other words, if I batch >>mkdir foo ; mkdir foo2 into a common write, I think it says that >>mkdir foo will be done first. >> > >I can tell you from my experience with the source code that >this is not true, unless both updates occur in the same >directory entry block of the same directory. > > > > >>If this has been discussed in detail already, please drop me a link >>to the mailing list archive. >> > >It has come up on a number of mailing lists in the past; >the FreeBSD mailing lists generally get a snapshot of it >whenever anyone suggests porting ReiserFS to FreeBSD. > >Do a search for "ReiserFS" in the FreeBSD mailing list >archives, and you should be able to find it. > >Personally, I'd prefer not to discuss it in the level of >detail required for a legal defense against patent claims, >since I believe that ReiserFS would lose, and I'd rather >not be the person manufacturing the bullets for the gun >that shoots it. > >Realize that Novell holds the patents that were executed >(such that they could then be assigned) during the time >that USL was owned by Novell. So SCO buying USL and >Caldera buying SCO doesn't give those patents a "get out >of jail free" card. 8-(. > >-- Terry > > Oh this is crap. There is nothing that Chris does in our journaling code that wasn't already done in databases for years before this patent was issued. (Chris, while you implement better than they did, I don't think your architecture is at all new.) As for your claiming you don't want to discuss it, this is bullshit, you are spreading FUD about our product in a potential future market for ReiserFS in a manner that could discourage someone from paying for the port. This is extremely irresponsible. Don't pretend to be friendly, your actions are quite harmful and irresponsible. Hans To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 2:10: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABAC37B402 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:09:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0050.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.50] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16mXbT-0004X6-00; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:09:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3C946B33.888F2281@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:08:51 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Reiser Cc: Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hans Reiser wrote: > Oh this is crap. There is nothing that Chris does in our journaling > code that wasn't already done in databases for years before this patent > was issued. (Chris, while you implement better than they did, I don't > think your architecture is at all new.) This is irrelevent to the legal system. > As for your claiming you don't want to discuss it, this is bullshit, As a Senior Software Engineer for Novell UNIX Systems Group, which integrated the former USL in June of 1994, in late 1994, during which time my primary job responsibilities included developing an attributed FS for UNIX for use in the NetWare for UNIX 4.x, I reviewed the DOW patent claims and materials prior to the filing by the authors. This event should be verifiable with Bryan Sparks, Gary Tomlinson, Jim Freeman, Darren Davis, and other people curently or formerly working for Caldera Systems, in Orem Utah, and well known to the Linux community. Actually, I'm pretty sure Jim Freeman reviewec the same documents. It is my opinion that the ReiserFS management of preserve lists probably infringes US Patent 5666532. It's no secret that I hold this opinion; I have posted consistently on it for several years, ever since the 0.2 release of ReiserFS included Write Ordering for shifted tree items. I can give you list references back at least a year, or even earlier, if I hit my offline mail archives. It's also no secret that I think it's easy to get around this by changing from DOW technology to the Ganger/Patt Soft Updates technology, which would make it a non-issue. > you are spreading FUD about our product in a potential future > market for ReiserFS in a manner that could discourage someone > from paying for the port. This is extremely irresponsible. > Don't pretend to be friendly, your actions are quite > harmful and irresponsible. Actually, the ReiserFS-Dev list was added to the Cc: line of a thread on the FreeBSD-FS list by Josh McDonald; I would just as soon not be quoted in part and out of context on a list where the entire thread was not archived. If I had noticed the addition, I would have removed it from the "Cc:" list befre replying to his posting. For FreeBSD, unless you are building a commercial product based on FreeBSD and negotiate a seperate license, ReiserFS under the GPL is a no-op, since you could not ship a binary for FreeBSD that was capable of booting off ReiserFS, due to license incompatability with the GPL. This is the same technicality that keeps the FreeBSD community from supporting, in a non-fringe way, a port of XFS or JFS to FreeBSD. FWIW: almost every UNIX vendor to whom you would market the code has a license for SVR4.2, which includes a license for use of the DOW Patents, so it's a non-issue for most potential commerical licensees of the code. If it makes you any happier, SQUID infringes at least 5 IBM patents. When I was employed by IBM, we were forced to remove it from an unreleased IBM product (they acquired our company prior to releasing the product) to avoid granting royalty free licenses to use those patents to anyone who bought a $1500 product and demanded the sources to the SQUID code from IBM under the terms of the GPL. Just because a company has a patent doesn't mean it will sue; if the patent had been transferred from Novell to SCO along with USL, the problem would be moot. As it is, I'm not sure whether or not the license is sublicensable (I assume that it is), so the shipping ReiserFS on Caldera's OpenLinux Workstation 3.1 may in fact destroy the enforcibility of the patent by Novell, in any case. The people to ask on that are Caldera; my assumptions are not strong enough for me to take the risk, so they shouldn't be strong enough for you. My opinion of software patents is probably lower than yours, but they are a fact of life in this business. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 3:29: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B94337B416 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18674 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 11:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.95) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 11:28:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3C948B98.2080703@namesys.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:27:04 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com> <3C946B33.888F2281@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: >Hans Reiser wrote: > >>Oh this is crap. There is nothing that Chris does in our journaling >>code that wasn't already done in databases for years before this patent >>was issued. (Chris, while you implement better than they did, I don't >>think your architecture is at all new.) >> > >This is irrelevent to the legal system. > No, it is called prior art. It is entirely relevant. > > >>As for your claiming you don't want to discuss it, this is bullshit, >> > >As a Senior Software Engineer for Novell UNIX Systems Group, >which integrated the former USL in June of 1994, in late 1994, >during which time my primary job responsibilities included >developing an attributed FS for UNIX for use in the NetWare >for UNIX 4.x, I reviewed the DOW patent claims and materials >prior to the filing by the authors. > >This event should be verifiable with Bryan Sparks, Gary >Tomlinson, Jim Freeman, Darren Davis, and other people >curently or formerly working for Caldera Systems, in Orem >Utah, and well known to the Linux community. Actually, I'm >pretty sure Jim Freeman reviewec the same documents. > >It is my opinion that the ReiserFS management of preserve >lists probably infringes US Patent 5666532. It's no secret > Preserve lists were removed from the code by Chris Mason years ago. > >that I hold this opinion; I have posted consistently on it > you mean, you told everyone but me, the author/inventor of preserve lists. > >for several years, ever since the 0.2 release of ReiserFS >included Write Ordering for shifted tree items. I can give >you list references back at least a year, or even earlier, >if I hit my offline mail archives. > >It's also no secret that I think it's easy to get around >this by changing from DOW technology to the Ganger/Patt >Soft Updates technology, which would make it a non-issue. > We use journaling. Have done so for years. > > > >>you are spreading FUD about our product in a potential future >>market for ReiserFS in a manner that could discourage someone >>from paying for the port. This is extremely irresponsible. >>Don't pretend to be friendly, your actions are quite >>harmful and irresponsible. >> > >Actually, the ReiserFS-Dev list was added to the Cc: line >of a thread on the FreeBSD-FS list by Josh McDonald; I >would just as soon not be quoted in part and out of context >on a list where the entire thread was not archived. If >I had noticed the addition, I would have removed it from >the "Cc:" list befre replying to his posting. > You prefer to say bad things behind people's backs, so that you never find out if they are untrue, and sales are lost without my ever knowing why. > > >For FreeBSD, unless you are building a commercial product >based on FreeBSD and negotiate a seperate license, ReiserFS >under the GPL is a no-op, since you could not ship a binary >for FreeBSD that was capable of booting off ReiserFS, due >to license incompatability with the GPL. This is the same > We would charge for any FreeBSD port, and the license would be a limiting (proprietary or GPL) license. There are probably appliance vendors and the like who would find this of interest. > >technicality that keeps the FreeBSD community from supporting, >in a non-fringe way, a port of XFS or JFS to FreeBSD. > >FWIW: almost every UNIX vendor to whom you would market the >code has a license for SVR4.2, which includes a license for >use of the DOW Patents, so it's a non-issue for most >potential commerical licensees of the code. > > >If it makes you any happier, SQUID infringes at least 5 IBM >patents. When I was employed by IBM, we were forced to remove >it from an unreleased IBM product (they acquired our company >prior to releasing the product) to avoid granting royalty free >licenses to use those patents to anyone who bought a $1500 >product and demanded the sources to the SQUID code from IBM >under the terms of the GPL. > >Just because a company has a patent doesn't mean it will sue; >if the patent had been transferred from Novell to SCO along >with USL, the problem would be moot. As it is, I'm not sure >whether or not the license is sublicensable (I assume that >it is), so the shipping ReiserFS on Caldera's OpenLinux >Workstation 3.1 may in fact destroy the enforcibility of the >patent by Novell, in any case. The people to ask on that are >Caldera; my assumptions are not strong enough for me to take >the risk, so they shouldn't be strong enough for you. > >My opinion of software patents is probably lower than yours, >but they are a fact of life in this business. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 3:52:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDC737B404 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0050.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.50] helo=mindspring.com) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16mZDD-0001au-00; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:52:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3C948354.6B998631@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:51:48 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Reiser Cc: Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com> <3C946B33.888F2281@mindspring.com> <3C948B98.2080703@namesys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hans Reiser wrote: > >that I hold this opinion; I have posted consistently on it > > > you mean, you told everyone but me, the author/inventor of preserve lists. You never came to the FreeBSD-FS list and suggested that FreeBSD use it as the default FS type. If you had, I would have posted both about the license issue with the GPL vs. using it as a root filesystem, and the patent issue, directly to you. Just because someone posts something somewhere you don't read doesn't make it "behind your back". > We would charge for any FreeBSD port, and the license would be a > limiting (proprietary or GPL) license. There are probably appliance > vendors and the like who would find this of interest. Sure. If the IBM GSB Division were still around, I would be lobbying for them to pay you for a port (IBM has a license to use the patents, so it's not an issue). And just so you know what I've said before, so that it's not "behind your back" from not bothering to read those forums: I suspect that the purpose of the use of the GPL is to encourage proprietary licensing (that's fine; many people use that revenue model), and though going to the LGPL would preserve your right to any changes to the code, it would likely reduce the incentive to license the code under other terms. Right now, a proprietary license without an application makes it uninteresting to me, and a GPL license preventing FreeBSD from using it as a boot FS on a CDROM distribution also makes it uninteresting to me. If you ever want to change the license to LGPL, so it's possible to distribute a FreeBSD with ReiserFS as the boot FS so that it's not at a license disadvantage compared to Linux, and either indeminfy people against patent claims in your license, or get a statement from Caldera about the Novell DOW patents, I would be first in line to do the FreeBSD port for you. Unfortunately, as a U.S. citizen, I can't do a port without the indemnification. At some point in the future, if I had an application that needed its features, and rights to a patent license at the same time (or proof it wasn't necessary), I'd certainly consider a commercial license for use with that application. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 5:20:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web21102.mail.yahoo.com (web21102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5136B37B419 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:20:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020317132017.12789.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:20:17 PST Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:20:17 -0800 (PST) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates To: Hans Reiser , Terry Lambert Cc: Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <3C948B98.2080703@namesys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > We would charge for any FreeBSD port, and the license would be a > limiting (proprietary or GPL) license. There are probably appliance > vendors and the like who would find this of interest. OK, I understand there is some big issue going on, but could I possibly know why there would be a charge to port ReiserFS to FreeBSD? As I have my public rights, I think it would be much better if it was ported under a limiting license, such as the LGPL, so ReiserFS can be used as the Boot FS for FreeBSD. IBM, being a being company, has release their JFS under a GPL license, which permits us to port it to FreeBSD, wouldn't it better if ReiserFS just took it one step ahead by making it LGPL? -- Hiten __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 5:51: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from roc-24-169-102-121.rochester.rr.com (216-42-72-146.ppp.netsville.net [216.42.72.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27DE537B417 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=tiny) by roc-24-169-102-121.rochester.rr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 16mb2U-00052R-00; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:49:34 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:49:34 -0500 From: Chris Mason To: Terry Lambert Cc: Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <1870790000.1016372974@tiny> In-Reply-To: <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, March 16, 2002 01:41:05 PM -0800 Terry Lambert wrote: > Chris Mason wrote: >> Claim 44 is probably the most difficult, although I think this: >> >> "where said common writes and said function calls have common order >> dependencies CD1, CD2, . . . , CDcd that preserve the update order >> dependencies D1, D2, . . . , Dd between the operations in the requests, >> where cd is an integer, " >> >> Restricts it to systems that preserve the ordering of the requests >> inside the combined common write. In other words, if I batch >> mkdir foo ; mkdir foo2 into a common write, I think it says that >> mkdir foo will be done first. > > I can tell you from my experience with the source code that > this is not true, unless both updates occur in the same > directory entry block of the same directory. As long as any block ordering is still preserved, it isn't what reiserfs does. So, if in the common write, mkdir foo includes inter-ordering between foo's bitmap, directory, inode, etc, it excludes the write ahead logging we're using. Hans' bit about the reiserfs log not being new is entirely right. I was looking for simple, proven ideas when I started coding. But, I don't think DOW writes was one of them ;-) As for the rest, I'd rather not see a public discussin of the patent issues either. It just isn't interesting in the context of an operation system list, and I'm certainly not qualified from a patent law point of view anyway. Thanks to the pointers to sections of the patent doc. -chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 12:50:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-239.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308E037B41F; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B1A0766C39; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:49:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:49:58 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: current@FreeBSD.org Cc: fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I tried upgrading the bento cluster to 5.x so I can actually get 5.0 packages built (eaccess problems), and 5 of them blew up in about 10 minutes with this (I think this is going to be an .. uh .. interesting test of the stability of 5.0-CURRENT): IdlePTD at phsyical address 0x004a6000 initial pcb at physical address 0x003e9040 panicstr: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? panic messages: --- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x58 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc0204b92 stack pointer = 0x10:0xcf0fac2c frame pointer = 0x10:0xcf0fac34 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 10095 (umount) trap number = 12 panic: page fault syncing disks... panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Uptime: 5m52s dumping to dev ad0b, offset 1575424 dump ata0: resetting devices .. done 254 253 252 251 250 249 248 247 246 245 244 243 242 241 240 239 238 237 236 235 234 233 232 231 230 229 228 227 226 225 224 223 222 221 220 219 218 217 216 215 214 213 212 211 210 209 208 207 206 205 204 20 3 202 201 200 199 198 197 196 195 194 193 192 191 190 189 188 187 186 185 184 183 182 181 180 179 178 1 77 176 175 174 173 172 171 170 169 168 167 166 165 164 163 162 161 160 159 158 157 156 155 154 153 152 151 150 149 148 147 146 145 144 143 142 141 140 139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 10 0 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 --- #0 dumpsys () at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:505 505 ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c: No such file or directory. (kgdb) bt #0 dumpsys () at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:505 #1 0xc020cd48 in boot (howto=260) at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:337 #2 0xc020d1e7 in panic (fmt=0xc0375b4b "bwrite: buffer is not busy???") at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:647 #3 0xc02425e3 in bwrite (bp=0xc7740920) at ../../../kern/vfs_bio.c:747 #4 0xc02438da in vfs_bio_awrite (bp=0xc7740920) at ../../../kern/vfs_bio.c:1604 #5 0xc01e453c in spec_fsync (ap=0xcf0faae8) at ../../../fs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:403 #6 0xc01e40f9 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xcf0faae8) at ../../../fs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:121 #7 0xc02e7420 in ffs_sync (mp=0xc25ca600, waitfor=2, cred=0xc0e40980, td=0xc03b1de0) at vnode_if.h:441 #8 0xc024fb95 in sync (td=0xc03b1de0, uap=0x0) at ../../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:669 #9 0xc020c994 in boot (howto=256) at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:246 #10 0xc020d1e7 in panic (fmt=0xc0393e1e "%s") at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:647 #11 0xc03324a0 in trap_fatal (frame=0xcf0fabec, eva=88) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:851 #12 0xc03321c9 in trap_pfault (frame=0xcf0fabec, usermode=0, eva=88) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:765 #13 0xc0331c53 in trap (frame={tf_fs = -822542312, tf_es = -821100528, tf_ds = -1071382512, tf_edi = 4, tf_esi = -1023860940, tf_ebp = -821056460, tf_isp = -821056488, tf_ebx = -822490624, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 2, tf_eax = 2, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -1071625326, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 65606, tf_esp = -1023860992, tf_ss = -822498560}) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:433 #14 0xc0204b92 in _mtx_lock_sleep (m=0xc2f91f34, opts=0, file=0x0, line=0) at ../../../kern/kern_mutex.c:370 #15 0xc024f55c in checkdirs (olddp=0xcf1814c0, newdp=0xcf1815a0) at ../../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 #16 0xc024f87b in dounmount (mp=0xc2e20c00, flags=524288, td=0xcef9ca00) at ../../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:583 #17 0xc024f73e in unmount (td=0xcef9ca00, uap=0xcf0fad20) at ../../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:543 #18 0xc0332770 in syscall (frame={tf_fs = 47, tf_es = 47, tf_ds = 47, tf_edi = 134809160, tf_esi = 134914149, tf_ebp = -1077938936, tf_isp = -821056140, tf_ebx = 134914150, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = -1077937306, tf_eax = 22, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134523171, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 643, tf_esp = -1077939044, tf_ss = 47}) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:1049 #19 0xc0323dad in syscall_with_err_pushed () Kris P.S. Yes, I'm only swapping onto a device once this time :-) --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8lQF2Wry0BWjoQKURAhsOAKDNdndmGwVHKlJnvLjaxtTqJHbE/ACfSzJO JT+YZiBfLAy6UiFKUl5YTsk= =aEwy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 13:11: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-239.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0367737B416; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7A56F66C39; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:11:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:11:02 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Kris Kennaway Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020317131102.A34573@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UugvWAfsgieZRqgk" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:49:58PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --UugvWAfsgieZRqgk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:49:58PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: > I tried upgrading the bento cluster to 5.x so I can actually get 5.0 > packages built (eaccess problems), and 5 of them blew up in about 10 > minutes with this (I think this is going to be an .. uh .. interesting > test of the stability of 5.0-CURRENT): I forgot to mention that they were running -current as of about a week ago. I upgraded to the CVS head, and 4 of the machines wedged solid in 2 minutes of load. I suspect greenvm :-) Kris --UugvWAfsgieZRqgk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8lQZlWry0BWjoQKURAhtBAKC8MKUtjkaDNAJOO2z0IV81PxphngCfeXWj yjKgPbHZ9uVBqtheYB2Iux8= =n5hO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UugvWAfsgieZRqgk-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 13:31:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-239.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D0A37B404; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0950766C39; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Kris Kennaway Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020317133130.A35137@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:49:58PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 12:49:58PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: > I tried upgrading the bento cluster to 5.x so I can actually get 5.0 > packages built (eaccess problems), and 5 of them blew up in about 10 > minutes with this (I think this is going to be an .. uh .. interesting > test of the stability of 5.0-CURRENT): >=20 > IdlePTD at phsyical address 0x004a6000 > initial pcb at physical address 0x003e9040 > panicstr: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? > panic messages: > --- > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address =3D 0x58 > fault code =3D supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer =3D 0x8:0xc0204b92 > stack pointer =3D 0x10:0xcf0fac2c > frame pointer =3D 0x10:0xcf0fac34 > code segment =3D base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > =3D DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > processor eflags =3D resume, IOPL =3D 0 > current process =3D 10095 (umount) > trap number =3D 12 > panic: page fault As Peter pointed out to me, this is the actual panic; the "bwrite: buffer is not busy???" is spurious and caused by the kernel trying to sync after the first panic. All of the problems I'm currently seeing are in umount. Kris --d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8lQsyWry0BWjoQKURAvnZAKDUgxQiB5LyMkf+ceuPAsgMkemhiwCfQY8e lxFGIk6Cnkrh8c+8CzeM5iw= =qDjz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 14:42:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7696337B404 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3528 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 22:42:40 -0000 Received: from backtop.namesys.com (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.71) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 22:42:40 -0000 Message-ID: <3C952981.1020209@namesys.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:40:49 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020317132017.12789.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: >>We would charge for any FreeBSD port, and the license would be a >>limiting (proprietary or GPL) license. There are probably appliance >>vendors and the like who would find this of interest. >> > >OK, I understand there is some big issue going on, but could I possibly know >why there would be a charge to port ReiserFS to FreeBSD? As I have my public > because it is a lot of work.... > >rights, I think it would be much better if it was ported under a limiting >license, such as the LGPL, so ReiserFS can be used as the Boot FS for >FreeBSD. > If you can pay someone else for proprietary enhancements to FreeBSD, you can pay me too.... this is the principle behind offering both GPL'd and fee based licenses of reiserfs. > > >IBM, being a being company, has release their JFS under a GPL license, which >permits us to port it to FreeBSD, wouldn't it better if ReiserFS just took >it one step ahead by making it LGPL? > > -- Hiten > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage >http://sports.yahoo.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 14:58: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web21109.mail.yahoo.com (web21109.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF3D337B400 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:57:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:57:59 PST Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:57:59 -0800 (PST) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates To: Hans Reiser , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <3C952981.1020209@namesys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Hans Reiser wrote: > because it is a lot of work.... [ ... ] > If you can pay someone else for proprietary enhancements to FreeBSD, you > can pay me too.... this is the principle behind offering both GPL'd and > fee based licenses of reiserfs. So, putting it in a nutshell, and hopefully closing this topic, we cannot port ReiserFS for free, right..? :| So for SuSE linux users, it would be one helluva task to switch to FreeBSD if they ever even wanted to. -- Hiten __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 16:41:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F0537B405 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id ECAD7AE27E; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:41:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:41:32 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Hans Reiser , Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <20020318004132.GA4857@elvis.mu.org> References: <3C952981.1020209@namesys.com> <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Hiten Pandya [020317 14:58] wrote: > --- Hans Reiser wrote: > > because it is a lot of work.... > > [ ... ] > > > If you can pay someone else for proprietary enhancements to FreeBSD, you > > can pay me too.... this is the principle behind offering both GPL'd and > > fee based licenses of reiserfs. > > So, putting it in a nutshell, and hopefully closing this topic, we cannot > port ReiserFS for free, right..? :| So for SuSE linux users, it would be > one helluva task to switch to FreeBSD if they ever even wanted to. If _you_ ported it, it would be GPL. If _you_ clean-room implemented it, it would be whatever license you like. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 16:45:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D5937B419 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 24C9C78317; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:15:21 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:15:21 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Hans Reiser , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <20020318111521.A70252@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com> <3C946B33.888F2281@mindspring.com> <3C948B98.2080703@namesys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020317132017.12789.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> <3C948B98.2080703@namesys.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > We would charge for any FreeBSD port, and the license would be a > limiting (proprietary or GPL) license. There are probably appliance > vendors and the like who would find this of interest. On Sunday, 17 March 2002 at 5:20:17 -0800, Hiten Pandya wrote: >On Sunday, 17 March 2002 at 15:27:04 +0300, Hans Reiser wrote: >> Terry Lambert wrote: >>> For FreeBSD, unless you are building a commercial product >>> based on FreeBSD and negotiate a seperate license, ReiserFS >>> under the GPL is a no-op, since you could not ship a binary >>> for FreeBSD that was capable of booting off ReiserFS, due >>> to license incompatability with the GPL. This is the same >> >> We would charge for any FreeBSD port, and the license would be a >> limiting (proprietary or GPL) license. There are probably appliance >> vendors and the like who would find this of interest. > > OK, I understand there is some big issue going on, but could I > possibly know why there would be a charge to port ReiserFS to > FreeBSD? As I have my public rights, I think it would be much > better if it was ported under a limiting license, such as the LGPL, > so ReiserFS can be used as the Boot FS for FreeBSD. I think you're misunderstanding. If I understand Hans correctly, the charge would be for the work done, not the license. It's clear enough that there's no charge for the GPL. I can certainly understand that there would be a (significant) charge associated with such a non-trivial port. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 18:12:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FEC137B416 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:12:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0136.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.136] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16mmco-0002xN-00; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:11:50 -0800 Message-ID: <3C954CB4.DA67635@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:11:00 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Hans Reiser , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: [ ... ] Any argument you make against ReiserFS in this regard also applies to an XFS port for FreeBSD, or your own efforts to get a JFS port project for FreeBSD going. NOTE: If you don't want to read a licensing discussion, stop reading this message NOW. Look at the facts, from a licensing perspective: 1) There is a GPL'ed ReiserFS, which you can port, and, your code being a derivative work of GPL'ed code, will also be GPL'ed. 2) You can negotiate a non-GPL'ed license for the code, but given that the BSD license is less restrictive, there are likely to be source redistribution restrictions in the license, menaing that there will be source redistribution restrictions on the derivative work of the code, should you port it yourself. 3) You can reverse engineer the code from scratch; this is not an impossible task, given that there are published interfaces, in the form of the GPL'ed code, which could be used as reference material, so long as you wrote your own actual code. What are the ramifications? First, it's possible, contrary to your claim, to port the GPL'ed version, but you could not distribute a bootable FreeBSD CDROM with the FS compiled into it or the boot loader by default, since it would violate the "no additional restrictions" clause of the GPL, and since even if you were talking about the two clause UCB License, you would not be able to change the license on the original code without losing your rights to it or works derived from it (the only rights you have are as a result of that license), and therefore, you are also in conflict with the GPL, which requires that code linked with GPL'ed code be GPL'ed, not UCB licensed, regardless of the number of clauses. You could distribute the code seperately and let people build their own binaries. This is much less useful to most people, since it means that any benefits gained from use of the FS are lost on the partition from which the OS is booted; it also means that there is no support available for a binary version. Legally, this approach is also on shakey ground, since the intent counts, and the intent in this case would be to get around the license terms. The most blatant thing would be to build the local binary for the user including both sets of code during the installation process, and then claim that you weren't really distributing a binary (there is case law that this constitutes a violation of the license, when you subvert it this way). Even putting the onus on the user is still questionable, as it is a matter of degree: the intent is still the same, to violate the spirit of the contract as it was offered in the license terms. You could license the code under another license negotiated seperately. This works because they've gone out of their way to ensure an assignment of rights for any contributed code, specifically to allow licenses under other terms. Unless this was a full "buy out", though, because of the effort involved, and because the situation was intentionally engineered to provide for a revenue model, it's unlikely that the resulting code would be redistributable in source form, and potentially not even in binary form, without a per unit royalty, or some other provision that prevents the code licensed to you from cannibalizing the potential market for licensing the same code under similar or other terms to another party (the intent, remember, was to establish a revenue model). Thus if you were to derive a product from some OS "Z", and add a relicensed version of ReiserFS to the product, then you would be fine, but if your intent was to make a source distribution of a FreeBSD bootable CDROM with ReiserFS support built into the binary, you would be out of luck, unless you were to give them sufficient cache to buy rights for source redistribution under other license terms. The final option of reverse engineering the code is always available, but it's prohibitively expensive. The availability of the source code under the GPL artificially deflates the barrier to entry for non-business users wanting to have the FS on their system, so the only incentive for this is for business use of the file system in a product. So long as the licensing terms are such that the cost of licensing the code under other terms is significantly lower than that of doing the reengineering, then there's an active economic disincentive for reverse engineering the code to get out from under the GPL, and, even if that weren't the cae, there's an ROI argument to be made that, even if you were to reverse engineer the code, once done it represents a substantial enough investment that you are not going to give the code away for free. A per unit royalty clause on a relicense *might* be enough to break the camel's back in this regard, but the people licensing the code are unlikely to make that mistake. These same arguments, minus the relicensing, apply to all GPL'ed code whose operation would place it in the boot path for an OS under a non-GPL license. The relicensing is only an option in the ReiserFS case because of the extraordinary measures which were taken to ensure an assignment of rights. Not all GPL'ed projects insist, or get their legal ducks in a row for, an assignment of rights for contributed code (in fact most of them do not). ReiserFS, Kaffe, and the FSF managed projects are exceptions to this. I rather expect that money would pull a non-GPL JFS license out of IBM. So who would reengineer to get out from under the GPL? People with an interest in targetting the GPL'ed product's revenue model, and cutting it off at the feet. For example, Microsoft reengineered the browser, and then gave it away for free. They also announced a new FS for Windows 9x two years before they shipped the first Alpha version of it, and FUD'ded to death a project in that same ecological niche that was ready to go to market (a product by Artisoft, which included a port of the Heidemann stacking framework, UFS, and FFS from FreeBSD to Windows). The only other people who would do it are egomaniacs, students, and religious zealots. Students are a special cae, because they generally have short enough attention spans (measured in units like "One Master's Thesis") that complexity of a system above a certain level is a barrier to entry. Egomaniacs are in it for the ego gratification, and as a class like their gratification to be immediate, which makes complexity a barrier for them, as well. This leaves the religious nuts, like the people rewriting the ipfilter code for OpenBSD to get out from under the license there (don't get me wrong: I appreciate their efforts, but they are no less the nuts for my appreciation). I believe this is why you do not see hordes of people rushing to port ReiserFS, XFS, JFS, etc., etc., to FreeBSD: with the GPL restriction, any code that lives in the boot path of a non-GPL'ed OS will always be an "also ran" which must be added by the end user, rather than the vendor, and will never replace native components without the restriction of the user having to do additional work. Basically, GPL'ed code is useful for a technology preview and as a demonstration, but rather useless as a reference implementation (unlike the UCB licensed TCP/IP implementation, which is found, among other places, in nearly every router on the Internet and is, today, part of Windows). You might even claim that the users who would do the work to do the same replacement also fall into the category of "religious zealots", in fact... not to single out your JFS project in particular, of course... ;^). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 18:26:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E4C37B405; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 82E8C5346; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:26:38 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kris Kennaway Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 03:26:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway writes: > [...] "up 14" followed by "p *m" would be nice; making the dump and the debugging kernel available on freefall would be even nicer. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 19:26:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F361D37B405; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id A405C5346; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 04:26:41 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kris Kennaway Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org, alfred@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 04:26:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: Lines: 55 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway writes: > #14 0xc0204b92 in _mtx_lock_sleep (m=0xc2f91f34, opts=0, file=0x0, line=0) > at ../../../kern/kern_mutex.c:370 (kgdb) up 14 #14 0xc0204b92 in _mtx_lock_sleep (m=0xc2f91f34, opts=0, file=0x0, line=0) at ../../../kern/kern_mutex.c:370 370 td1 = mtx_owner(m); (kgdb) p *m $1 = {mtx_object = {lo_class = 0x0, lo_name = 0x0, lo_flags = 0, lo_list = { stqe_next = 0x0}, lo_witness = 0x0}, mtx_lock = 2, mtx_recurse = 0, mtx_blocked = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0x0}, mtx_contested = { le_next = 0x0, le_prev = 0x0}} The mutex is uninitialized (destroyed, actually), because... > #15 0xc024f55c in checkdirs (olddp=0xcf1814c0, newdp=0xcf1815a0) at ../../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 (kgdb) up #15 0xc024f55c in checkdirs (olddp=0xcf1814c0, newdp=0xcf1815a0) at ../../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 457 FILEDESC_LOCK(fdp); (kgdb) p *fdp $2 = {fd_ofiles = 0xc2f91200, fd_ofileflags = 0xc2f91f00 "", fd_cdir = 0x0, fd_rdir = 0x0, fd_jdir = 0x0, fd_nfiles = 0, fd_lastfile = 0, fd_freefile = -1024110592, fd_cmask = 0, fd_refcnt = 0, fd_knlistsize = 4, fd_knlist = 0x11ffff, fd_knhashmask = 0, fd_knhash = 0xdb, fd_mtx = { mtx_object = {lo_class = 0x0, lo_name = 0x0, lo_flags = 0, lo_list = { stqe_next = 0x0}, lo_witness = 0x0}, mtx_lock = 2, mtx_recurse = 0, mtx_blocked = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0x0}, mtx_contested = { le_next = 0x0, le_prev = 0x0}}} ...the process has no open files at all, because... (kgdb) p p->p_pid $4 = 10099 (kgdb) p p->p_comm $5 = "wc\000oot", '\000' (kgdb) p p->p_stat $6 = 3 (kgdb) p/x p->p_flag $7 = 0x6000 ...it's exiting, and fdfree() has already run. Solution: p->p_fd must be protected by p's proc lock; fdfree() must set it to NULL immediately after freeing it; checkdirs() must lock each process before examining its fd list. Other problem spotted while investigating this: fdfree() can fail silently; fdfree() should panic if fdp->fd_refcnt is non-zero. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 22:17:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1DB37B416; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 7FD50AE1C6; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:17:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:17:39 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020317 19:27] wrote: > > ...the process has no open files at all, because... > > (kgdb) p p->p_pid > $4 = 10099 > (kgdb) p p->p_comm > $5 = "wc\000oot", '\000' > (kgdb) p p->p_stat > $6 = 3 > (kgdb) p/x p->p_flag > $7 = 0x6000 > > ...it's exiting, and fdfree() has already run. > > Solution: p->p_fd must be protected by p's proc lock; fdfree() must > set it to NULL immediately after freeing it; checkdirs() must lock > each process before examining its fd list. > > Other problem spotted while investigating this: fdfree() can fail > silently; fdfree() should panic if fdp->fd_refcnt is non-zero. Please let me know if this works for you. Index: vfs_syscalls.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c,v retrieving revision 1.231 diff -u -r1.231 vfs_syscalls.c --- vfs_syscalls.c 12 Mar 2002 04:00:10 -0000 1.231 +++ vfs_syscalls.c 18 Mar 2002 06:23:41 -0000 @@ -451,10 +451,14 @@ return; sx_slock(&allproc_lock); LIST_FOREACH(p, &allproc, p_list) { + PROC_LOCK(p); fdp = p->p_fd; - if (fdp == NULL) + if (fdp == NULL) { + PROC_UNLOCK(p); continue; + } FILEDESC_LOCK(fdp); + PROC_UNLOCK(p); if (fdp->fd_cdir == olddp) { VREF(newdp); fdp->fd_cdir = newdp; Index: kern_descrip.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_descrip.c,v retrieving revision 1.128 diff -u -r1.128 kern_descrip.c --- kern_descrip.c 15 Mar 2002 08:03:46 -0000 1.128 +++ kern_descrip.c 18 Mar 2002 06:23:39 -0000 @@ -1321,19 +1321,26 @@ fdfree(td) struct thread *td; { - register struct filedesc *fdp = td->td_proc->p_fd; + register struct filedesc *fdp; struct file **fpp; register int i; + PROC_LOCK(td); + fdp = td->td_proc->p_fd; /* Certain daemons might not have file descriptors. */ - if (fdp == NULL) + if (fdp == NULL) { + PROC_UNLOCK(td); return; + } FILEDESC_LOCK(fdp); if (--fdp->fd_refcnt > 0) { FILEDESC_UNLOCK(fdp); + PROC_UNLOCK(td); return; } + td->td_proc->p_fd = NULL; + PROC_UNLOCK(td); /* * we are the last reference to the structure, we can * safely assume it will not change out from under us. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 22:23:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-239.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C8C37B405; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A83EB66C39; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:23:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:23:09 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020317222309.A45621@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org>; from alfred@freebsd.org on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 10:17:39PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 10:17:39PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020317 19:27] wrote: > >=20 > > ...the process has no open files at all, because... > >=20 > > (kgdb) p p->p_pid > > $4 =3D 10099 > > (kgdb) p p->p_comm > > $5 =3D "wc\000oot", '\000' > > (kgdb) p p->p_stat > > $6 =3D 3 > > (kgdb) p/x p->p_flag > > $7 =3D 0x6000 > >=20 > > ...it's exiting, and fdfree() has already run. > >=20 > > Solution: p->p_fd must be protected by p's proc lock; fdfree() must > > set it to NULL immediately after freeing it; checkdirs() must lock > > each process before examining its fd list. > >=20 > > Other problem spotted while investigating this: fdfree() can fail > > silently; fdfree() should panic if fdp->fd_refcnt is non-zero. >=20 > Please let me know if this works for you. Thanks, will test once the current run is finished. Kris --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8lYfMWry0BWjoQKURApoDAKCn3Ib0V2oR1RbY4Wu3ieIU2QLZkwCgkKOI Ikv5H3ZG5hRTRAUXigXW4Cc= =P4xG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 22:55:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F4537B41B; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id EA7FE5346; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:54:54 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 07:54:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein writes: > Please let me know if this works for you. > [...] > + PROC_LOCK(td); *cough* *cough* :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 17 23:16:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D8637B41A; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 0DBBAAE1C6; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:16:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:16:23 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020317 22:55] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > Please let me know if this works for you. > > [...] > > + PROC_LOCK(td); > > *cough* *cough* > > :) It was untested. :) I'm sure you can fix it, I've got to get some sleep, let me know if it works for you. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 0: 2:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1129337B41A for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25531 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 08:02:33 -0000 Received: from backtop.namesys.com (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.71) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 08:02:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:00:42 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: >--- Hans Reiser wrote: > >>because it is a lot of work.... >> > >[ ... ] > >>If you can pay someone else for proprietary enhancements to FreeBSD, you >>can pay me too.... this is the principle behind offering both GPL'd and >>fee based licenses of reiserfs. >> > >So, putting it in a nutshell, and hopefully closing this topic, we cannot >port ReiserFS for free, right..? :| So for SuSE linux users, it would be >one helluva task to switch to FreeBSD if they ever even wanted to. > > -- Hiten > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage >http://sports.yahoo.com/ > > You can port it for free if you port it to a GPL'd OS (or port the OS to the GPL). Hans To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 0:11:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 74CAA37B402 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 26764 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 08:11:33 -0000 Received: from backtop.namesys.com (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.71) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 08:11:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3C95AED7.9080101@namesys.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:09:43 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com> <3C946B33.888F2281@mindspring.com> <3C948B98.2080703@namesys.com> <20020318111521.A70252@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > >I think you're misunderstanding. If I understand Hans correctly, the >charge would be for the work done, not the license. > This is true, we would charge ~$500k to port to BSD for the work of doing the port (price assumes fixed price contract, if time and materials it could be less). We would also need to put a license on it that would restrain its usage such that, say, Microsoft, could not then use it in Windows without paying us. The GPL is such a restraint. Other options are possible to explore if anyone gets serious about it. Sales of licenses in addition to the GPL are about 40% of our income, and likely to increase this year dramatically. They are my best hope for being able to pay typical US wages to most of my employees. >It's clear enough >that there's no charge for the GPL. > >I can certainly understand that there would be a (significant) charge >associated with such a non-trivial port. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1: 0:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1D137B404; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 28C2E5346; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:00:43 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 10:00:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 42 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein writes: > It was untested. :) I'm sure you can fix it, I've got to get some > sleep, let me know if it works for you. Sure. Turns out the patch doesn't work, because closef() needs p->p_fd to be valid. This is really tricky; you either need to protect *every* access to p->p_fd with the proc lock, or figure out some other way of handling things. fdfree() is currently used in a handful of places: - in kern_exec.c, an fdcopy() / fdfree() combo is used to unshare the file table in case it is shared (vfork()); this is a waste of time unless the table actually *is* shared, which is easy to check. This could replaced by a single call to a new function, fdunshare(), which checks the reference count and does an fdcopy() if it is greater than 1. - in kern_exit.c, fdfree() is used to close all file descriptors and destroy the table before turning the process into a zombie (this is the one that's giving us trouble). This could be handled by an fdclear() function, with the actual destruction of the filedesc and its mutex (performed by a new fddestroy() function?) left off until the last possible moment, after the process has been removed from the process table. - in kern_fork.c, one case where an fdcopy() / fdfree() combo is used to unshare the file table (see comment above about fdunshare()) and one case where fdfree() / fdinit() is used to completely clear the file table (RFCFDG case). The latter could be handled by a new fdclear() function. - in vfs_aio.c, fdfree() is called once to destroy the aio daemon's file table, and twice to dereference the client's file table after it has been temporarily "borrowed" by the aio daemon. This code gives me a headache, for several reasons (one of which is a potential race condition similar to the one we're already seeing in kern_exit.c; another is its rather cavalier treatment of curproc) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1: 2:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-239.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A64D37B416; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BD80366C39; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:02:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:02:45 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org>; from alfred@freebsd.org on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 11:16:23PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 11:16:23PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020317 22:55] wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > > Please let me know if this works for you. > > > [...] > > > + PROC_LOCK(td); > >=20 > > *cough* *cough* > >=20 > > :) >=20 > It was untested. :) I'm sure you can fix it, I've got to get some > sleep, let me know if it works for you. With the corrected version of that patch (and a patch from Tor to fix VM deadlocks in green's commit) I got this panic. DES has been taking a look at it, but I'm sending it here in case anyone else has insight too. Kris panic messages: --- Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address =3D 0x48 fault code =3D supervisor write, page not present instruction pointer =3D 0x8:0xc01f833c stack pointer =3D 0x10:0xda1a8b4c frame pointer =3D 0x10:0xda1a8b74 code segment =3D base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b =3D DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags =3D interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL =3D 0 current process =3D 92729 (tail) trap number =3D 12 panic: page fault syncing disks... panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Uptime: 27m34s dumping to dev ad0b, offset 1051136 dump ata0: resetting devices .. done 510 509 508 507 506 505 504 503 502 501 500 499 498 497 496 495 494 493 492= 491 490 489 488 487 486 485 484 483 482 481 480 479 478 477 476 475 474 47= 3 472 471 470 469 468 467 466 465 464 463 462 461 460 459 458 457 456 455 4= 54 453 452 451 450 449 448 447 446 445 444 443 442 441 440 439 438 437 436 = 435 434 433 432 431 430 429 428 427 426 425 424 423 422 421 420 419 418 417= 416 415 414 413 412 411 410 409 408 407 406 405 404 403 402 401 400 399 39= 8 397 396 395 394 393 392 391 390 389 388 387 386 385 384 383 382 381 380 3= 79 378 377 376 375 374 373 372 371 370 369 368 367 366 365 364 363 362 361 = 360 359 358 357 356 355 354 353 352 351 350 349 348 347 346 345 344 343 342= 341 340 339 338 337 336 335 334 333 332 331 330 329 328 327 326 325 324 32= 3 322 321 320 319 318 317 316 315 314 313 312 311 310 309 308 307 306 305 3= 04 303 302 301 300 299 298 297 296 295 294 293 292 291 290 289 288 287 286 = 285 284 283 282 281 280 279 278 277 276 275 274 273 272 271 270 269 268 267= 266 265 264 263 262 261 260 259 258 257 256 255 254 253 252 251 250 249 24= 8 247 246 245 244 243 242 241 240 239 238 237 236 235 234 233 232 231 230 2= 29 228 227 226 225 224 223 222 221 220 219 218 217 216 215 214 213 212 211 = 210 209 208 207 206 205 204 203 202 201 200 199 198 197 196 195 194 193 192= 191 190 189 188 187 186 185 184 183 182 181 180 179 178 177 176 175 174 17= 3 172 171 170 169 168 167 166 165 164 163 162 161 160 159 158 157 156 155 1= 54 153 152 151 150 149 148 147 146 145 144 143 142 141 140 139 138 137 136 = 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117= 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 = 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 = 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 = 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 = 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 --- #0 dumpsys () at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:505 505 ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c: No such file or directory. b(kgdb) bt #0 dumpsys () at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:505 #1 0xc020d4b4 in boot (howto=3D260) at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:337 #2 0xc020d953 in panic (fmt=3D0xc0376d4b "bwrite: buffer is not busy???") at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:647 #3 0xc0242c3b in bwrite (bp=3D0xce63eb88) at ../../../kern/vfs_bio.c:747 #4 0xc024404a in vfs_bio_awrite (bp=3D0xce63eb88) at ../../../kern/vfs_bio= .c:1606 #5 0xc01e49e8 in spec_fsync (ap=3D0xda1a8a08) at ../../../fs/specfs/spec_v= nops.c:403 #6 0xc01e45a5 in spec_vnoperate (ap=3D0xda1a8a08) at ../../../fs/specfs/sp= ec_vnops.c:121 #7 0xc02e818c in ffs_sync (mp=3D0xc4061400, waitfor=3D2, cred=3D0xc145a980= , td=3D0xc03b3000) at vnode_if.h:441 #8 0xc02505e9 in sync (td=3D0xc03b3000, uap=3D0x0) at ../../../kern/vfs_sy= scalls.c:673 #9 0xc020d100 in boot (howto=3D256) at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:246 #10 0xc020d953 in panic (fmt=3D0xc039501e "%s") at ../../../kern/kern_shutd= own.c:647 #11 0xc03335d0 in trap_fatal (frame=3D0xda1a8b0c, eva=3D72) at ../../../i38= 6/i386/trap.c:851 #12 0xc03332f9 in trap_pfault (frame=3D0xda1a8b0c, usermode=3D0, eva=3D72) = at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:765 #13 0xc0332d83 in trap (frame=3D{tf_fs =3D -1001521128, tf_es =3D -10696785= 76, tf_ds =3D -635830256, tf_edi =3D -1001489664, tf_esi =3D 0, tf_ebp =3D -635794572, tf_isp = =3D -635794632, tf_ebx =3D -1002099200, tf_edx =3D 4, tf_ecx =3D -636822144, tf_eax = =3D 4, tf_trapno =3D 12, tf_err =3D 2, tf_eip =3D -1071676612, tf_cs =3D 8, tf_eflags =3D 66194, tf_esp =3D = -1002099200, tf_ss =3D 4}) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:433 #14 0xc01f833c in kqueue_close (fp=3D0xc4452e00, td=3D0xda0add80) at machin= e/atomic.h:139 #15 0xc01f67b6 in fdrop_locked (fp=3D0xc4452e00, td=3D0xda0add80) at ../../= ../sys/file.h:230 #16 0xc01f5c9e in fdrop (fp=3D0xc4452e00, td=3D0xda0add80) at ../../../kern= /kern_descrip.c:1545 #17 0xc01f5c4c in closef (fp=3D0xc4452e00, td=3D0xda0add80) at ../../../ker= n/kern_descrip.c:1531 #18 0xc01f5729 in fdfree (td=3D0xda0add80) at ../../../kern/kern_descrip.c:= 1352 #19 0xc01fa4fd in exit1 (td=3D0xda0add80, rv=3D15) at ../../../kern/kern_ex= it.c:199 #20 0xc0211157 in sigexit (td=3D0xda0add80, sig=3D15) at ../../../kern/kern= _sig.c:1856 #21 0xc0210dc8 in postsig (sig=3D15) at ../../../kern/kern_sig.c:1748 #22 0xc0226fe6 in userret (td=3D0xda0add80, frame=3D0xda1a8d48, oticks=3D1)= at ../../../kern/subr_trap.c:78 #23 0xc0333934 in syscall (frame=3D{tf_fs =3D 47, tf_es =3D 47, tf_ds =3D 4= 7, tf_edi =3D 1, tf_esi =3D 0, tf_ebp =3D -1077938360, tf_isp =3D -635794060, tf_ebx =3D 1, tf_edx = =3D 4, tf_ecx =3D 672242496, tf_eax =3D 4, tf_trapno =3D 12, tf_err =3D 2, tf_eip =3D 671769507, t= f_cs =3D 31, tf_eflags =3D 583, tf_esp =3D -1077938580, tf_ss =3D 47}) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:1= 093 #24 0xc0324e4d in syscall_with_err_pushed () #25 0x804a283 in ?? () #26 0x8048bdd in ?? () (kgdb) --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8la01Wry0BWjoQKURAj0OAJ9zQKotOKSYRKRb9061w57DDXzVBgCgjVMq M4i9es397ekD9QT6hdsEnKI= =5N36 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1: 6:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C65737B41B for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 89AA57831E; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:36:13 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:36:13 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Hans Reiser Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Terry Lambert , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Licensing issues, round 4711 (was: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates) Message-ID: <20020318193613.V93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 18 March 2002 at 12:00:42 +0300, Hans Reiser wrote: > Hiten Pandya wrote: > >> --- Hans Reiser wrote: >> >>> because it is a lot of work.... >>> >> >> [ ... ] >> >>> If you can pay someone else for proprietary enhancements to FreeBSD, you >>> can pay me too.... this is the principle behind offering both GPL'd and >>> fee based licenses of reiserfs. >> >> So, putting it in a nutshell, and hopefully closing this topic, we cannot >> port ReiserFS for free, right..? :| So for SuSE linux users, it would be >> one helluva task to switch to FreeBSD if they ever even wanted to. > > You can port it for free if you port it to a GPL'd OS (or port the OS to > the GPL). We've been through this one just recently with JFS. We can use reiserfs in FreeBSD with only a few restrictions. Terry mentioned some of them, but in case you, like myself, find that too detailled, here's the bottom line: you can include GPL code in a FreeBSD kernel, but you can't include proprietary code in the same kernel binary. Well, you can, as long as you're prepared to supply the source of that proprietary code for "free". Contrary to what Terry says, we could even distribute a CD containing a binary kernel with GPL code in it. This by no means suggests that the FreeBSD project thinks this is a good idea. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1: 7: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79C437B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 3F1585347; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:06:59 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Alfred Perlstein , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 10:06:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway writes: > With the corrected version of that patch (and a patch from Tor to fix > VM deadlocks in green's commit) I got this panic. ...which is completely uninteresting, actually, except as proof that the patch (and my initial analysis) is incorrect. With the patch applied, tail(1) will *always* cause this panic; it is a direct and inevitable consequence of the patch clearing p->p_fd before calling closef(). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1:30:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799A837B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 8C7C45346; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:30:21 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 10:30:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 121 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BTW, I actually ran across a related bug (or possibly the exact same) about a week ago, but didn't post a stack trace because I thought the panic might be a consequence of some other patches I was testing. The kernel debugging tutorial mwlucas is preparing is based on this stack trace, though :) (kgdb) where #0 dumpsys () at ../../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:505 #1 0xc0143119 in db_fncall (dummy1=0, dummy2=0, dummy3=0, dummy4=0xe0b749a4 " \0048\200%") at ../../../ddb/db_command.c:551 #2 0xc0142f33 in db_command (last_cmdp=0xc0313724, cmd_table=0xc0313544, aux_cmd_tablep=0xc030df2c, aux_cmd_tablep_end=0xc030df30) at ../../../ddb/db_command.c:348 #3 0xc0142fff in db_command_loop () at ../../../ddb/db_command.c:474 #4 0xc0145393 in db_trap (type=12, code=0) at ../../../ddb/db_trap.c:72 #5 0xc02ad0f6 in kdb_trap (type=12, code=0, regs=0xe0b74af4) at ../../../i386/i386/db_interface.c:161 #6 0xc02ba004 in trap_fatal (frame=0xe0b74af4, eva=40) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:846 #7 0xc02b9d71 in trap_pfault (frame=0xe0b74af4, usermode=0, eva=40) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:765 #8 0xc02b9907 in trap (frame={tf_fs = 24, tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -524858548, tf_isp = -524858592, tf_ebx = -525288192, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 1000000000, tf_eax = 0, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -1071645917, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66182, tf_esp = -1070136512, tf_ss = 0}) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:433 #9 0xc01ffb23 in vcount (vp=0xe0b0bd00) at ../../../kern/vfs_subr.c:2301 #10 0xc01a5e58 in spec_close (ap=0xe0b74b94) at ../../../fs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:591 #11 0xc01a55f1 in spec_vnoperate (ap=0xe0b74b94) at ../../../fs/specfs/spec_vnops.c:121 #12 0xc0207454 in vn_close (vp=0xe0b0bd00, flags=3, cred=0xc32cce00, td=0xe0a8d360) at vnode_if.h:183 #13 0xc0207fab in vn_closefile (fp=0xc3369080, td=0xe0a8d360) at ../../../kern/vfs_vnops.c:757 #14 0xc01b1d50 in fdrop_locked (fp=0xc3369080, td=0xe0a8d360) at ../../../sys/file.h:230 #15 0xc01b155a in fdrop (fp=0xc3369080, td=0xe0a8d360) at ../../../kern/kern_descrip.c:1538 #16 0xc01b152d in closef (fp=0xc3369080, td=0xe0a8d360) at ../../../kern/kern_descrip.c:1524 #17 0xc01b114e in fdfree (td=0xe0a8d360) at ../../../kern/kern_descrip.c:1345 #18 0xc01b5173 in exit1 (td=0xe0a8d360, rv=256) at ../../../kern/kern_exit.c:199 #19 0xc01b4ec2 in sys_exit (td=0xe0a8d360, uap=0xe0b74d20) at ../../../kern/kern_exit.c:109 #20 0xc02ba2b7 in syscall (frame={tf_fs = 47, tf_es = 47, tf_ds = 47, tf_edi = 135227560, tf_esi = 0, tf_ebp = -1077941020, tf_isp = -524857996, tf_ebx = -1, tf_edx = 135044144, tf_ecx = -1077942116, tf_eax = 1, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 134865696, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 663, tf_esp = -1077941064, tf_ss = 47}) at ../../../i386/i386/trap.c:1049 #21 0xc02ae06d in syscall_with_err_pushed () #22 0x80503a5 in ?? () #23 0x807024a in ?? () #24 0xbfbfffb4 in ?? () #25 0x807daaf in ?? () #26 0x807d6eb in ?? () #27 0x80630c1 in ?? () #28 0x8062fed in ?? () #29 0x805ea4c in ?? () #30 0x8065949 in ?? () #31 0x806544d in ?? () #32 0x806dc17 in ?? () #33 0x80616b7 in ?? () #34 0x80613f0 in ?? () #35 0x8048135 in ?? () (kgdb) up 9 #9 0xc01ffb23 in vcount (vp=0xe0b0bd00) at ../../../kern/vfs_subr.c:2301 2301 SLIST_FOREACH(vq, &vp->v_rdev->si_hlist, v_specnext) (kgdb) p *vp $1 = {v_flag = 8, v_usecount = 2, v_writecount = 1, v_holdcnt = 0, v_id = 6985, v_mount = 0x0, v_op = 0xc2d52a00, v_freelist = {tqe_next = 0x0, tqe_prev = 0xe083de1c}, v_nmntvnodes = {tqe_next = 0xe0b0b700, tqe_prev = 0xe0b0c024}, v_cleanblkhd = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xe0b0bd2c}, v_dirtyblkhd = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xe0b0bd34}, v_synclist = {le_next = 0x0, le_prev = 0x0}, v_numoutput = 0, v_type = VBAD, v_un = {vu_mountedhere = 0x0, vu_socket = 0x0, vu_spec = {vu_specinfo = 0x0, vu_specnext = { sle_next = 0x0}}, vu_fifoinfo = 0x0}, v_lastw = 0, v_cstart = 0, v_lasta = 0, v_clen = 0, v_object = 0x0, v_interlock = {mtx_object = { lo_class = 0xc0335c60, lo_name = 0xc02ef5c1 "vnode interlock", lo_flags = 196608, lo_list = {stqe_next = 0x0}, lo_witness = 0x0}, mtx_lock = 4, mtx_recurse = 0, mtx_blocked = {tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xe0b0bd84}, mtx_contested = {le_next = 0x0, le_prev = 0x0}, tsp = {tv_sec = 3584, tv_nsec = 101067509}, file = 0xc02ef50a "../../../kern/vfs_subr.c", line = 1726, has_trace_time = 0}, v_lock = {lk_interlock = 0xc036e320, lk_flags = 16777216, lk_sharecount = 0, lk_waitcount = 0, lk_exclusivecount = 0, lk_prio = 80, lk_wmesg = 0xc02ef5d1 "vnlock", lk_timo = 6, lk_lockholder = -1}, v_vnlock = 0x0, v_tag = VT_NON, v_data = 0x0, v_cache_src = {lh_first = 0x0}, v_cache_dst = { tqh_first = 0x0, tqh_last = 0xe0b0bdd8}, v_dd = 0xe0b0bd00, v_ddid = 0, v_pollinfo = 0x0, v_vxproc = 0x0} (kgdb) up 8 #17 0xc01b114e in fdfree (td=0xe0a8d360) at ../../../kern/kern_descrip.c:1345 warning: Source file is more recent than executable. 1345 (void) closef(*fpp, td); (kgdb) p fpp - fdp->fd_ofiles $2 = 2 (kgdb) up #18 0xc01b5173 in exit1 (td=0xe0a8d360, rv=256) at ../../../kern/kern_exit.c:199 warning: Source file is more recent than executable. 199 fdfree(td); /* XXXKSE *//* may not be the one in proc */ (note that the vnode's mutex looks a bit weird; my kernel is instrumented to measure how long each mutex is held) The vnode (the process's stderr) is VBAD because it's been revoked. I don't remember the exact circumstances of the panic, but I believe I was in single-user mode, and the process in question was a zsh I'd left suspended, and the panic occurred as I was either rebooting or going to single-user mode. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1:50:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D1A37B402 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0004.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.4] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16mtmR-0000Sz-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:50:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3C95B838.F8ECE39A@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:49:44 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Reiser Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hans Reiser wrote: > You can port it for free if you port it to a GPL'd OS (or port the OS to > the GPL). Or you can port it and then use it on any OS you want, so long as you are an end user, and not a company who sells OSs, so long as you don't redistribute the result... the GPL doesn't kick in until you attempt to exercise distribution rights. You could also, for example, build a company that charged to store data on the GPL'ed ReiserFS, ported to some proprietary OS, and as long as you never sold your hosting platforms to anyone, there'd be no problem. You could call your new company "Defeat-the-spirit-of-the-GPL Data Vaulting, Incorporated". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 1:57:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49DA37B404; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0004.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.4] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16mttQ-0003O9-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3C95B9E9.4DEBB09E@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:56:57 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: Hans Reiser , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: Licensing issues, round 4711 (was: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates) References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> <20020318193613.V93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > We've been through this one just recently with JFS. We can use > reiserfs in FreeBSD with only a few restrictions. Terry mentioned > some of them, but in case you, like myself, find that too detailled, > here's the bottom line: you can include GPL code in a FreeBSD kernel, > but you can't include proprietary code in the same kernel binary. > Well, you can, as long as you're prepared to supply the source of that > proprietary code for "free". Contrary to what Terry says, we could > even distribute a CD containing a binary kernel with GPL code in it. Don't agree with your interpretation of the ability of someone to GPL UCBL'ed code, but even if we say you are right (you're not 8-)) for the sake of argument, it would only work on 2 clause UCBL'ed code, and not on things like the many 4-clause licensed files, the "BeerWare" licensed files, etc.. See the "additional restrictions" poison pill caluse in the GPL, and ask a lawyer if needing to buy Poul beer if you like the code counts... ;^). > This by no means suggests that the FreeBSD project thinks this is a > good idea. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 2: 2:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DD12C37B41E for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 4678 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 10:02:10 -0000 Received: from backtop.namesys.com (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.71) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 10:02:10 -0000 Message-ID: <3C95C8C3.7080803@namesys.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:00:19 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> <3C95B838.F8ECE39A@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: >Hans Reiser wrote: > >>You can port it for free if you port it to a GPL'd OS (or port the OS to >>the GPL). >> > >Or you can port it and then use it on any OS you want, so long >as you are an end user, and not a company who sells OSs, so >long as you don't redistribute the result... the GPL doesn't >kick in until you attempt to exercise distribution rights. > This is often said, but not what the license language says. I think it is wishful thinking. If you distribute, you must make it public. That includes FAPSI, NSA, anyone. > > >You could also, for example, build a company that charged to >store data on the GPL'ed ReiserFS, ported to some proprietary >OS, and as long as you never sold your hosting platforms to > ^sold^distributed the software for > >anyone, there'd be no problem. You could call your new company >"Defeat-the-spirit-of-the-GPL Data Vaulting, Incorporated". > > >-- Terry > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 6:32:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4A237B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:32:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id DFEA3AE2AB; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:32:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:32:04 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020318 01:07] wrote: > Kris Kennaway writes: > > With the corrected version of that patch (and a patch from Tor to fix > > VM deadlocks in green's commit) I got this panic. > > ...which is completely uninteresting, actually, except as proof that > the patch (and my initial analysis) is incorrect. With the patch > applied, tail(1) will *always* cause this panic; it is a direct and > inevitable consequence of the patch clearing p->p_fd before calling > closef(). I think you're right, I'm pretty sure the fix is basically moving the p->p_fd = NULL to after the closef will fix things, but to get it right you need to lock the FILEDESC properly, I'll have another patch later today. Sorry for taking so long to look at this. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 8:23:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4AFE37B405; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 3F5FD534A; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:23:14 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Mar 2002 17:23:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein writes: > I think you're right, I'm pretty sure the fix is basically moving > the p->p_fd = NULL to after the closef will fix things [...] There will still be a race... > Sorry for taking so long to look at this. No problem, really. It showed up less than 24 hours ago, your response time is pretty good in my book :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 8:53:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from magic.adaptec.com (magic.adaptec.com [208.236.45.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6090D37B402; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from redfish.adaptec.com (redfish.adaptec.com [162.62.50.11]) by magic.adaptec.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g2IGrFj02021; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from btc.btc.adaptec.com (btc.btc.adaptec.com [162.62.64.10]) by redfish.adaptec.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00867; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunsenhoneydew.btc.adaptec.com ([162.62.149.132]) by btc.btc.adaptec.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02876; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from bunsenhoneydew.btc.adaptec.com (localhost.btc.adaptec.com [127.0.0.1]) by bunsenhoneydew.btc.adaptec.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2G22Rs9012201; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:02:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@bunsenhoneydew.btc.adaptec.com) Received: (from scottl@localhost) by bunsenhoneydew.btc.adaptec.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g2G22QVr012200; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:02:26 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:02:26 -0700 From: Scott Long To: Chris Dillon Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CD-MRW a.k.a Mt. Rainier support Message-ID: <20020316020226.GA12097@bunsenhoneydew.btc.adaptec.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org <<< No Message Collected >>> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 9:50: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from hpdi.ath.cx (pc2-nthf5-0-cust237.not.cable.ntl.com [80.4.35.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA5337B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hitenp@hpdi.ath.cx) by hpdi.ath.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2IHkfL01208; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:46:41 GMT (envelope-from hitenp@hpdi.ath.cx) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:46:41 +0000 From: Hiten Pandya Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <20020318174641.A1153@hpdi.ath.cx> Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD hpdi.ath.cx 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-PGP-Key: http://www.pittgoth.com/~hiten/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Or you can port it and then use it on any OS you want, so long > as you are an end user, and not a company who sells OSs, so > long as you don't redistribute the result... the GPL doesn't > kick in until you attempt to exercise distribution rights. >=20 > You could also, for example, build a company that charged to > store data on the GPL'ed ReiserFS, ported to some proprietary > OS, and as long as you never sold your hosting platforms to > anyone, there'd be no problem. You could call your new company > "Defeat-the-spirit-of-the-GPL Data Vaulting, Incorporated". So from what you are saying, I can (if I wanted to 8-)) port ReiserFS to FreeBSD, under the GPL License, but that would be of no point, because it cannot be used as a boot FS unless a royalty was paid to the Hans for the rights, right? :) I don't understand one thing though, what are we doing in the case of Ext2FS, which is supported in FreeBSD. As far as I know, the Ext2FS version of FreeBSD has also got some GPL'ed bits? The Ext2FS is supplied as a source filesystem on FreeBSD CD-ROMs and people are allowed to sell them... Wouldn't this be the same thing in the case of a GPL'ed ReiserFS, XFS or any other GPL'ed filesystem or code? Regards, --=20 Hiten Pandya http://jfs4bsd.sf.net - JFS for FreeBSD (JFS4BSD) http://www.FreeBSD.org - The Power to Serve --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8ligAhh1dveTjA8MRAjT5AKCRgyxfpoUY+LtcO+UW2hYTYRywEACgpUP+ aMb/DkMaK76ucLFvSyG5OTU= =G2+p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 11: 8:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web21103.mail.yahoo.com (web21103.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1238137B400 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:08:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020318190839.15195.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:08:39 PST Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:08:39 -0800 (PST) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <20020318174641.A1153@hpdi.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Hiten Pandya wrote: > So from what you are saying, I can (if I wanted to 8-)) port ReiserFS > to FreeBSD, under the GPL License, but that would be of no point, > because it cannot be used as a boot FS unless a royalty was paid to > the Hans for the rights, right? :) Oops, Sorry about that, I mean Hans. :) -- Hiten __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 11:42:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 750BD37B439 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:42:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 5744 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 19:42:28 -0000 Received: from backtop.namesys.com (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.71) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 19:42:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3C9650C6.4010303@namesys.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:40:38 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020318190839.15195.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: >--- Hiten Pandya wrote: > >>So from what you are saying, I can (if I wanted to 8-)) port ReiserFS >>to FreeBSD, under the GPL License, but that would be of no point, >>because it cannot be used as a boot FS unless a royalty was paid to >>the Hans for the rights, right? :) >> > >Oops, Sorry about that, I mean Hans. :) > > -- Hiten > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage >http://sports.yahoo.com/ > > I actually don't understand the remark about needing to pay me royalties. If you leave the GPL on the code, and don't violate the GPL by integrating it with non-GPL compatible code, you don't need to pay me. You can probably talk me into granting waivers on trivially incompatible with the GPL licenses. Where you need to pay me is when you want someone (yourself or MS or anyone....) to be able to add to BDS+ReiserFS without making their additions free. Hans To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 11:58:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web21105.mail.yahoo.com (web21105.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B9A0B37B404 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:58:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:58:17 PST Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:58:17 -0800 (PST) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates To: Hans Reiser Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <3C9650C6.4010303@namesys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Hans Reiser wrote: > Hiten Pandya wrote: > I actually don't understand the remark about needing to pay me > royalties. If you leave the GPL on the code, and don't violate the GPL > by integrating it with non-GPL compatible code, you don't need to pay > me. You can probably talk me into granting waivers on trivially > incompatible with the GPL licenses. Where you need to pay me is when > you want someone (yourself or MS or anyone....) to be able to add to > BDS+ReiserFS without making their additions free. I think I get your point (after all this time 8-)). If someone ports ReiserFS to FreeBSD, there will be no fee; but if someone makes additions to ReiserFS, than they have to pay you for logical business reasons, am I right? Apart from that, there would be no issue in porting ReiserFS to FreeBSD. One more question, if the booting part of ReiserFS was re-written in the BSD License, would there be any issues still existing? :-) Also, I think I also made a clear fact of the Ext2FS code in FreeBSD. How do you think ReiserFS would do in similar situations?, which type of license does SuSE use? :) [ PS. I am asking the above question in manner which would be clear to everyone, so this can be archived and refered to in the future, if these kinds of question arise again. Thanks ] Regards, -- Hiten __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 14:31: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDCB37B400 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2IMUxq06914 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:30:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2IMUwx29010 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:30:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2IMUwh22651 for freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:30:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Filesystem books? To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:30:58 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more research about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance of our library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) to read up on filesystem design? Thanks, Quincey Koziol koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 14:36:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F07137B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:36:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 3F1E6AE1FE; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:36:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:36:31 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020318 08:23] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > I think you're right, I'm pretty sure the fix is basically moving > > the p->p_fd = NULL to after the closef will fix things [...] > > There will still be a race... Are you sure? :) Btw, is there a way to easily reproduce this bug? Index: kern/kern_descrip.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_descrip.c,v retrieving revision 1.128 diff -u -r1.128 kern_descrip.c --- kern/kern_descrip.c 15 Mar 2002 08:03:46 -0000 1.128 +++ kern/kern_descrip.c 18 Mar 2002 19:04:24 -0000 @@ -1321,10 +1321,11 @@ fdfree(td) struct thread *td; { - register struct filedesc *fdp = td->td_proc->p_fd; + register struct filedesc *fdp; struct file **fpp; register int i; + fdp = td->td_proc->p_fd; /* Certain daemons might not have file descriptors. */ if (fdp == NULL) return; @@ -1344,6 +1345,11 @@ if (*fpp) (void) closef(*fpp, td); } + + PROC_LOCK(td->td_proc); + td->td_proc->p_fd = NULL; + PROC_UNLOCK(td->td_proc); + if (fdp->fd_nfiles > NDFILE) FREE(fdp->fd_ofiles, M_FILEDESC); if (fdp->fd_cdir) Index: kern/vfs_syscalls.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c,v retrieving revision 1.231 diff -u -r1.231 vfs_syscalls.c --- kern/vfs_syscalls.c 12 Mar 2002 04:00:10 -0000 1.231 +++ kern/vfs_syscalls.c 18 Mar 2002 19:05:23 -0000 @@ -451,9 +451,12 @@ return; sx_slock(&allproc_lock); LIST_FOREACH(p, &allproc, p_list) { + PROC_LOCK(p); fdp = p->p_fd; - if (fdp == NULL) + if (fdp == NULL) { + PROC_UNLOCK(p); continue; + } FILEDESC_LOCK(fdp); if (fdp->fd_cdir == olddp) { VREF(newdp); @@ -469,6 +472,7 @@ vrele(olddp); } else FILEDESC_UNLOCK(fdp); + PROC_UNLOCK(p); } sx_sunlock(&allproc_lock); if (rootvnode == olddp) { -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 14:41:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C58B37B402 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0273.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.18] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16n5oB-0005YI-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:40:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3C966CDF.25A7A379@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:40:31 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Reiser Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020317225759.82774.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> <3C95ACBA.4040108@namesys.com> <3C95B838.F8ECE39A@mindspring.com> <3C95C8C3.7080803@namesys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hans Reiser wrote: > >>You can port it for free if you port it to a GPL'd OS (or port the OS to > >>the GPL). > > > >Or you can port it and then use it on any OS you want, so long > >as you are an end user, and not a company who sells OSs, so > >long as you don't redistribute the result... the GPL doesn't > >kick in until you attempt to exercise distribution rights. > > This is often said, but not what the license language says. I think it > is wishful thinking. If you distribute, you must make it public. That > includes FAPSI, NSA, anyone. Precisely. So you can port it, and the result of the port is still GPL'ed. At that point, you can treat it like any other GPL'ed code that the original vendor had ported. You do the port, buy you don't distribute it, so you are not required to make sources available. You merely use the port internally. Alternately, you do the port, you distribute it, but you do not distribute it linked against your proprietary code. You make the end user do the linking, if they want to use it. By optioning it, you are off the hook for making your proprietary source code available, but the end user is not. Since the end user never had your source code, the end user can not distribute the combined code further. > >You could also, for example, build a company that charged to > >store data on the GPL'ed ReiserFS, ported to some proprietary > >OS, and as long as you never sold your hosting platforms to > > ^sold^distributed the software for Yes. The sale implies distribution. THe sale could be in the context of selling the hosting platforms to end users, or selling the company that owns the hosting platforms, such that the assets become the property of another company, and the original company is not maintained as a legal fiction. If you sell the comany to another company, you are distributing the assets of the first company, including the software, to another company. To avoid GPL'ing the code code, you must cause them to relink, just like the end user case above. If you don't, you risk patches to the proprietary code made after the link becoming GPL'ed, which would then cause all of your proprietary code to be GPL'ed, even if you distributed it with those patches, seperately from the original GPL'ed code. This is a technicality which I think most people would ignore, since such sales occur "under cover". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15: 2:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF7837B416; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 37C2F5346; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:02:00 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Mar 2002 00:01:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein writes: > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020318 08:23] wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > > I think you're right, I'm pretty sure the fix is basically moving > > > the p->p_fd = NULL to after the closef will fix things [...] > > There will still be a race... > Are you sure? :) Almost, though I think the window will be much smaller than it is now. The only way I see of avoiding it alltogether is to protect p->p_fd and its mutex with allproc_lock (IOW, destroy the table as the last thing you do before zombifying the process) > Btw, is there a way to easily reproduce this bug? No, it's a race condition, which makes it hard to trigger on purpose. The problem with your patch is that *every* place in the kernel that calls FILEDESC_LOCK needs to first acquire the proc lock and check if p->p_fd is NULL. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:19:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1204C37B400 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:19:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 205C17831E; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:49:35 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:49:35 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Hans Reiser , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <20020319094935.B93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3C9650C6.4010303@namesys.com> <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 18 March 2002 at 11:58:17 -0800, Hiten Pandya wrote: > --- Hans Reiser wrote: >> Hiten Pandya wrote: >> I actually don't understand the remark about needing to pay me >> royalties. If you leave the GPL on the code, and don't violate the GPL >> by integrating it with non-GPL compatible code, you don't need to pay >> me. You can probably talk me into granting waivers on trivially >> incompatible with the GPL licenses. Where you need to pay me is when >> you want someone (yourself or MS or anyone....) to be able to add to >> BDS+ReiserFS without making their additions free. > > I think I get your point (after all this time 8-)). *sigh* I'm not so sure. > If someone ports ReiserFS to FreeBSD, there will be no fee; but if > someone makes additions to ReiserFS, than they have to pay you for > logical business reasons, am I right? No. The difference between ReiserFS and other GPL software appears to be that you can optionally buy the software with a non-GPL license. These are two distinct cases. For GPL, we have: 1. You never pay royalties. 2. Any package which includes the software must be released under the GPL. For a FreeBSD kernel, this means that the kernel binary must be under the GPL. For a binary, this means that all sources must be made available for "free". 3. Any changes you make to the software must also be under the GPL. For the proprietary version, we have whatever the license agreement says. This presumably includes payment. > Apart from that, there would be no issue in porting ReiserFS to > FreeBSD. One more question, if the booting part of ReiserFS was > re-written in the BSD License, would there be any issues still > existing? :-) Why would you want to do that? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:23:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA72837B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0273.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.18] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16n6Sn-0007mE-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:22:49 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9676B4.49A76589@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:22:28 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020318174641.A1153@hpdi.ath.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: > So from what you are saying, I can (if I wanted to 8-)) port ReiserFS > to FreeBSD, under the GPL License, but that would be of no point, > because it cannot be used as a boot FS unless a royalty was paid to > the Hans for the rights, right? :) You would have to buy him out of the GPL license for your application. It'd probably be cheaper to buy out a BSD use specific license, than to buy it into a pure BSD license, so that e.g. Microsoft could not use the the code without a royalty. It's going to be more expensive than you might think, though, since the embedded systems market he appears to be targetting for licensees uses a lot of BSD these days. Note that the same argument goes for your JFS port project to FreeBSD, since the JFS is under GPL. You would have to deal with IBM on that one. I also have to tell you that, as an employee of a division of IBM using FreeBSD in an embedded system, I tried very hard to get an alternate license on JFS, for binary redistribution in the product, but they wanted "play money" (internal funds transfer) for a full license, just as if we were an outside party interested in the code. For my money, you are better off paying Hans. > I don't understand one thing though, what are we doing in the case of > Ext2FS, which is supported in FreeBSD. As far as I know, the Ext2FS > version of FreeBSD has also got some GPL'ed bits? The Ext2FS is > supplied as a source filesystem on FreeBSD CD-ROMs and people are > allowed to sell them... It's supplied as source code only, not compiled into the kernel byt the FreeBSD project, and therefore not impacting the FreeBSD license. See /usr/src/sys/gnu/ext2fs/COPYRIGHT.INFO: | Most of the files in this directory are written by Godmar Back or modified | by him using the CSRG sources. Those files are covered by the Berkeley-style | copyright. However the following files are covered by GPL. Since the policy | of the FreeBSD project is to keep the files with the more restrictive | copyright in the gnu tree and it is a good idea to keep the filesystem code | all together, the EXT2FS in its entirety resides under the gnu tree. Note | that only the files below are under the GPL. In the eventuality that these | files are redesigned or rewritten, this tree can be moved back into the less | restrictive FreeBSD tree. > Wouldn't this be the same thing in the case of a GPL'ed ReiserFS, > XFS or any other GPL'ed filesystem or code? Yes. It can not be distributed compiled into a kernel distributed on CDROM, legally, because of the license conflict, but it can be used in an after-market fashion by an end user. What that basically means is that you have to install it on another FS type without that restriction before you are able to use the ReiserFS, XFS, OpenGFS, or your own JFS port-in-progress. Since doing this is an incredible pain, and the benefits you get from doing it are most often not worth the pain, most people don't do it. Also, since it's not on the CDROM, it's unlikely to ever become the default root FS, in any case. Even if you wanted to locally roll your own CDROM for this, you would have to modify the boot loader code to be able to read XFS or whatever FS's in order to load the third stage boot loader, kernel, and kernel modules, etc.. That's basically a read-write port *plus* a read-only port of the code, which makes it about 1.75 times as much work as just doing the kernel port (it used to be only about 1.5 times, but now the boot code has to be able to get files out of subdirectories because of the reorganized kernel and module code). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:25:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5836E37B404 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from onyx (onyx.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.140.171]) by bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2INPJU17139; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:25:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:23:20 -0500 (EST) From: Zhihui Zhang X-Sender: zzhang@onyx To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a book "Linux File Systems" introducing XFS, JFS, Reiserfs, ext3fs etc. -Zhihui On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Quincey Koziol wrote: > Howdy, > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) > which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more research > about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance of our > library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) to read > up on filesystem design? > > Thanks, > Quincey Koziol > koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:27:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C104C37B402 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:27:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 8C71B78317; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:57:46 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:57:46 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: GPL license issues (was: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates) Message-ID: <20020319095746.D93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20020318174641.A1153@hpdi.ath.cx> <3C9676B4.49A76589@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C9676B4.49A76589@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 18 March 2002 at 15:22:28 -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > Hiten Pandya wrote: >> So from what you are saying, I can (if I wanted to 8-)) port ReiserFS >> to FreeBSD, under the GPL License, but that would be of no point, >> because it cannot be used as a boot FS unless a royalty was paid to >> the Hans for the rights, right? :) > > You would have to buy him out of the GPL license for your > application. No. In the case of ReiserFS, you *can* apparently do it. You don't have to. > Note that the same argument goes for your JFS port project to > FreeBSD, since the JFS is under GPL. You would have to deal with > IBM on that one. No. IBM has made this very clear in the past. So has rms. >> Wouldn't this be the same thing in the case of a GPL'ed ReiserFS, >> XFS or any other GPL'ed filesystem or code? > > Yes. > > It can not be distributed compiled into a kernel distributed on > CDROM, legally, because of the license conflict, but it can be used > in an after-market fashion by an end user. No. This is wrong. If someone were to do this, they would have to distribute the kernel binary under GPL. No other changes would apply. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:33:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web21106.mail.yahoo.com (web21106.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA63F37B43C for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:32:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020318233233.19931.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:32:33 PST Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:32:33 -0800 (PST) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: Hans Reiser , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <20020319094935.B93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > The difference between ReiserFS and other GPL software appears to be > that you can optionally buy the software with a non-GPL license. > These are two distinct cases. > > For GPL, we have: > > 1. You never pay royalties. > 2. Any package which includes the software must be released under the > GPL. For a FreeBSD kernel, this means that the kernel binary must > be under the GPL. For a binary, this means that all sources must > be made available for "free". > 3. Any changes you make to the software must also be under the GPL. > > For the proprietary version, we have whatever the license agreement > says. This presumably includes payment. OK, Now I understand clearly. This time I do 8-) > Why would you want to do that? I don't personally want to port ReiserFS in the near future of mine, not until I can successfully finish my JFS port, but personally as of now, I am not planning to do the port for ReiserFS. The only reason I asked these questions, were for clarity reasons on the so called "conflicts" that can occur when the GPL and other licensed code are in use together (like BSD License). This make me sure of what I know on the license, for future purposes. Also, it has given enough information for anyone who is interested in porting ReiserFS or any other GPL'ed FS to FreeBSD (there were some messages posted to the -fs list). Thanks, Regards, -- Hiten Pandya -- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:41:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-239.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9A437B417; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:40:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 23DF866C39; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:40:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:40:42 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020318154041.B71020@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XF85m9dhOBO43t/C" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org>; from alfred@freebsd.org on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:36:31PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:36:31PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020318 08:23] wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > > I think you're right, I'm pretty sure the fix is basically moving > > > the p->p_fd =3D NULL to after the closef will fix things [...] > >=20 > > There will still be a race... >=20 > Are you sure? :) >=20 > Btw, is there a way to easily reproduce this bug? The panic in tail was triggered by using -f (i.e. kqueue), but it's only happened once on the cluster..err..twice now (just happened again). Without your previous patch several cluster machines were failing several times per hour, in umount. You could probably trigger it by stressing these two code paths. I'll test your latest patch a bit later on. Kris --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8lnr5Wry0BWjoQKURAg71AJ9eqYJ1NDGfB6OXCgjlBJ4befV9xgCg/bk7 +ftT3teBYQ5jXePLLKLAxrw= =IuGN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:54:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD0237B405; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 1ED5E5346; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:54:05 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Alfred Perlstein , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020317124958.A34008@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> <20020318154041.B71020@xor.obsecurity.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Mar 2002 00:54:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020318154041.B71020@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway writes: > The panic in tail was triggered by using -f (i.e. kqueue), Like I said, that panic was irrelevant since it was a consequence of an incorrect patch. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 15:58:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB19F37B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0273.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.18] helo=mindspring.com) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16n70b-0000Bm-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:57:45 -0800 Message-ID: <3C967EE4.5E60D36@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:57:24 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Hans Reiser , Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: > > I actually don't understand the remark about needing to pay me > > royalties. If you leave the GPL on the code, and don't violate the GPL > > by integrating it with non-GPL compatible code, you don't need to pay > > me. You can probably talk me into granting waivers on trivially > > incompatible with the GPL licenses. Where you need to pay me is when > > you want someone (yourself or MS or anyone....) to be able to add to > > BDS+ReiserFS without making their additions free. > > I think I get your point (after all this time 8-)). If someone ports > ReiserFS to FreeBSD, there will be no fee; but if someone makes > additions to ReiserFS, than they have to pay you for logical business > reasons, am I right? No. If you want to port the GPL'ed code, fine. If you want to make additionas which are also GPL'ed, fine. If you want to make additionas that you keep to yourself, not fine: you need a license so that your derivative work is not covered by the GPL of the code from which you derived it. > Apart from that, there would be no issue in porting ReiserFS to FreeBSD. One > more question, if the booting part of ReiserFS was re-written in the BSD > License, would there be any issues still existing? :-) Yes. You would not be able to distibute a binary kernel that included ReiserFS in it without GPL'ing FreeBSD (which is not legal, since you aren't the copyright holder). Thus you would be able to load a kernel with the rewritten code, but the kernel would not be able to mount its root FS without the ReiserFS code in the kernel. Loading GPL'ed ReiserFS as a module in this circumstance is not possible, since it's not legal to distribute a binary of such a module, since the module must be linked against the kernel, and the GPL, unlike the LGPL, does not let you escape from this via the "relink clause". In other words, it is not possible to build a FreeBSD CDROM that you sell, or even give away, where the default root FS type following an install from the CDROM is a GPL'ed FS (or any other licensed FS, where the license conflicts with the licenses on the FreeBSD code). You could only build such a CDROM if you licensed the code under terms other than the GPL. So if you wanted to build an appliance that used ReiserFS, and not have to give away your source code for proprietary parts, you would need to purchase a seperate ReiserFS license under other terms, to get yourself out from under the GPL for the proprietary code you add. There are heroic technical measures you could take to get around these restrictions (BeOS links GPL'ed code into GPL external handler programs, and then talks to them via IPC to get around the GPL on come code, for instance), but the effort of doing that is probably more than simply writing a drop-in replacement from scratch, which is more than just licensing the code. IMO, if you wrote a read-only ReiserFS for the boot code, you would be about 75% of the way to a fully functioning ReiserFS, in any case, since the reading process has to be able to interpret a disk following failure, so most of the nuances involved in writing have to be known to the code, with the sole exception of allocation policy and the write code itself. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 16:19: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FFC37B402; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0273.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.18] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16n7LD-0000cp-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:19:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9683E3.C6A97916@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:18:43 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Hans Reiser , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <3C9650C6.4010303@namesys.com> <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> <20020319094935.B93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > Apart from that, there would be no issue in porting ReiserFS to > > FreeBSD. One more question, if the booting part of ReiserFS was > > re-written in the BSD License, would there be any issues still > > existing? :-) > > Why would you want to do that? I think his theory is that if the loader were to load the FreeBSD kernel and the module seperately, such that the link was not done by the vendor, it would get around the GPL "linked with" propagation clause. This is not true. Modules have to be linked against the kernel into which they are loaded for symbol relocation purposes. By making this automatic, you are in the same legal boat as if you had linked the kernel and the loader at system install-from-cdrom time, in order to get around the license. You can not legally get around the license this way. If you make the user do this manually, without automating it for them, then you can get around the license, because it is the user, not an instrumentality of you (e.g. you personally, or software under your control) which does the linking, thereby bringing in the license burden. Actually, the FSF took a company to court on this for a cryptosystem. The issue was settled out of court by the company in question writing additional code to ensure that the glue code on their end of the software was not a derivative work of the GPL'ed code. The principle is the same. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 16:37:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from crotus.sc.intel.com (scfdns02.sc.intel.com [143.183.152.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B313337B404; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips-ra.pdx.intel.com (ichips-ra-hme2.intel.com [10.7.5.35]) by crotus.sc.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.52 2002/03/01 19:20:46 root Exp $) with ESMTP id AAA11462; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:37:33 GMT Received: from plxu2525.pdx.intel.com (plxu2525.pdx.intel.com [10.7.50.43]) by ichips-ra.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id QAA05476; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sramkris@localhost) by plxu2525.pdx.intel.com (8.11.6/8.9.1/d: client-ra.m4,v 1.1 1998/12/24 19:00:55 jamesw Exp jamesw $) id g2J0bWA30093; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:37:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:37:32 -0800 From: Sriram Ramkrishna To: Terry Lambert Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Hans Reiser , Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <20020318163732.B30080@ichips.intel.com> References: <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> <3C967EE4.5E60D36@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3C967EE4.5E60D36@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:57:24PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:57:24PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > There are heroic technical measures you could take to get > around these restrictions (BeOS links GPL'ed code into GPL > external handler programs, and then talks to them via IPC > to get around the GPL on come code, for instance), but the > effort of doing that is probably more than simply writing > a drop-in replacement from scratch, which is more than just > licensing the code. Interesting idea. You could create a generic server that you could talk to other GPL'd stuff like ext3 or what not. Performance would be really awful though with the extra indirection.. sri To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 16:43: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C55437B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0273.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.18] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16n7i2-0007Mx-00; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:42:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3C96896A.F9F0A36A@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:42:18 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: GPL license issues (was: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates) References: <20020318174641.A1153@hpdi.ath.cx> <3C9676B4.49A76589@mindspring.com> <20020319095746.D93909@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > It can not be distributed compiled into a kernel distributed on > > CDROM, legally, because of the license conflict, but it can be used > > in an after-market fashion by an end user. > > No. This is wrong. If someone were to do this, they would have to > distribute the kernel binary under GPL. No other changes would apply. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt 2.b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. Section 3 requires that you place the source code itself under the GPL. That's not possible. Section 4 voids your rights to the GPL'ed code, if you do not comply with section 3. See also "GPL-Incompatible, Free Software Licenses": http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses Specifically, the 4 clause UCB license is listed as "incompatible". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 16:53:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5233E37B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id BB448AE25C; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:53:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:53:25 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? Message-ID: <20020319005325.GA455@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020318 15:03] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [020318 08:23] wrote: > > > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > > > I think you're right, I'm pretty sure the fix is basically moving > > > > the p->p_fd = NULL to after the closef will fix things [...] > > > There will still be a race... > > Are you sure? :) > > Almost, though I think the window will be much smaller than it is now. > The only way I see of avoiding it alltogether is to protect p->p_fd > and its mutex with allproc_lock (IOW, destroy the table as the last > thing you do before zombifying the process) Actually... if checkdirs wins the race for proc lock it will do its magic and fdfree will wait while it does that. if fdfree wins, then checkdirs will see a NULL p_fd pointer. > > Btw, is there a way to easily reproduce this bug? > > No, it's a race condition, which makes it hard to trigger on purpose. > > The problem with your patch is that *every* place in the kernel that > calls FILEDESC_LOCK needs to first acquire the proc lock and check if > p->p_fd is NULL. No, only when a sideways access occurs, like in checkdirs(). I think this ought to fix it. Index: kern/vfs_syscalls.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c,v retrieving revision 1.231 diff -u -r1.231 vfs_syscalls.c --- kern/vfs_syscalls.c 12 Mar 2002 04:00:10 -0000 1.231 +++ kern/vfs_syscalls.c 18 Mar 2002 23:18:34 -0000 @@ -446,29 +446,34 @@ { struct filedesc *fdp; struct proc *p; + int nrele; if (olddp->v_usecount == 1) return; sx_slock(&allproc_lock); LIST_FOREACH(p, &allproc, p_list) { + PROC_LOCK(p); fdp = p->p_fd; - if (fdp == NULL) + if (fdp == NULL) { + PROC_UNLOCK(p); continue; + } + nrele = 0; FILEDESC_LOCK(fdp); if (fdp->fd_cdir == olddp) { VREF(newdp); fdp->fd_cdir = newdp; - FILEDESC_UNLOCK(fdp); - vrele(olddp); - FILEDESC_LOCK(fdp); + nrele++; } if (fdp->fd_rdir == olddp) { VREF(newdp); fdp->fd_rdir = newdp; - FILEDESC_UNLOCK(fdp); + nrele++; + } + FILEDESC_UNLOCK(fdp); + PROC_UNLOCK(p); + while (nrele--) vrele(olddp); - } else - FILEDESC_UNLOCK(fdp); } sx_sunlock(&allproc_lock); if (rootvnode == olddp) { Index: kern/kern_descrip.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_descrip.c,v retrieving revision 1.128 diff -u -r1.128 kern_descrip.c --- kern/kern_descrip.c 15 Mar 2002 08:03:46 -0000 1.128 +++ kern/kern_descrip.c 18 Mar 2002 19:04:24 -0000 @@ -1321,10 +1321,11 @@ fdfree(td) struct thread *td; { - register struct filedesc *fdp = td->td_proc->p_fd; + register struct filedesc *fdp; struct file **fpp; register int i; + fdp = td->td_proc->p_fd; /* Certain daemons might not have file descriptors. */ if (fdp == NULL) return; @@ -1344,6 +1345,11 @@ if (*fpp) (void) closef(*fpp, td); } + + PROC_LOCK(td->td_proc); + td->td_proc->p_fd = NULL; + PROC_UNLOCK(td->td_proc); + if (fdp->fd_nfiles > NDFILE) FREE(fdp->fd_ofiles, M_FILEDESC); if (fdp->fd_cdir) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 17: 4:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0384E37B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:04:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 7DE605346; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:04:34 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , current@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic: bwrite: buffer is not busy??? References: <20020318061739.GB894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318071623.GD894@elvis.mu.org> <20020318010245.A48956@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020318143204.GA688@elvis.mu.org> <20020318223631.GA23014@elvis.mu.org> <20020319005325.GA455@elvis.mu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Mar 2002 02:04:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020319005325.GA455@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein writes: > if checkdirs wins the race for proc lock it will do its magic and > fdfree will wait while it does that. > > if fdfree wins, then checkdirs will see a NULL p_fd pointer. You're right. I'm still worried about other fdfree() callers, though, but this patch is definitely better than the current state of affairs, so you might as well commit it :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 17:30:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B2437B400 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ubik.demon.co.uk ([194.222.125.229]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16n8SI-0004Lp-0Y; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:30:27 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:30:16 +0000 To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG From: Anthony Naggs Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> In-Reply-To: <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, Quincey Koziol writes >Howdy, > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) >which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more research >about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance of our >library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) to read >up on filesystem design? "Practical File System Design" Dominic Giampaolo Morgan Kaufman Press (www.mkp.com) ISBN 1-55860-497-9 This book gives a lot of background and philosophy of the design of a modern file system, in this case the FS for BeOS. Practical, readable and surprisingly slim for the tremendous amount of detail. (I'm really impressed with this book, can you tell?) On the net I have seen good documentation for ReiserFS, a quick Google suggests http://www.reiserfs.org/ as a starting point for this. Cheers, Tony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 19: 3:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E5137B405 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 6F5EA5346; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:03:40 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Mar 2002 04:03:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quincey Koziol writes: > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - > http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) which has a lot of similarities to a > filesystem. This basically looks like strongly typed filesystem - you could build this on top of any existing filesystem in FreeBSD using extended attributes and a userland library. Storing it in a single XML file is IMHO a regression, especially from a performance standpoint. Or did I miss some crucial point? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 20:46:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 978EE37B41A for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22687 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 04:46:33 -0000 Received: from backtop.namesys.com (HELO namesys.com) (212.16.7.71) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 04:46:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3C96D04B.6060201@namesys.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:44:43 +0300 From: Hans Reiser User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020310 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates References: <20020318195817.26106.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: >--- Hans Reiser wrote: > >>Hiten Pandya wrote: >>I actually don't understand the remark about needing to pay me >>royalties. If you leave the GPL on the code, and don't violate the GPL >>by integrating it with non-GPL compatible code, you don't need to pay >>me. You can probably talk me into granting waivers on trivially >>incompatible with the GPL licenses. Where you need to pay me is when >>you want someone (yourself or MS or anyone....) to be able to add to >>BDS+ReiserFS without making their additions free. >> > >I think I get your point (after all this time 8-)). If someone ports >ReiserFS >to FreeBSD, there will be no fee; but if someone makes additions to ReiserFS, >than they have to pay you for logical business reasons, am I right? > If they make non-free additions to reiserfs, or to a kernel that reiserfs is a part of. > > >Apart from that, there would be no issue in porting ReiserFS to FreeBSD. One >more question, if the booting part of ReiserFS was re-written in the BSD >License, would there be any issues still existing? :-) > >Also, I think I also made a clear fact of the Ext2FS code in FreeBSD. How >do you think ReiserFS would do in similar situations?, which type of license >does SuSE use? :) > What license is there on that ext2fs code in FreeBSD, is it GPL or other? > > >[ PS. I am asking the above question in manner which would be clear to >everyone, so this can be archived and refered to in the future, if these >kinds of question arise again. Thanks ] > >Regards, > > -- Hiten > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage >http://sports.yahoo.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 20:51:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [66.92.160.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5776037B400; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J4piE73009; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:51:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from scanner@sasami.jurai.net) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: scanner@sasami.jurai.net To: Hans Reiser Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , , Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates In-Reply-To: <3C96D04B.6060201@namesys.com> Message-ID: <20020318235057.V72935-100000@sasami.jurai.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What license is there on that ext2fs code in FreeBSD, is it GPL or other? It's the BSDL. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (816) 464-7780 | Sr. Unix Administrator Work: chris.watson@twa.com | Trans World Airlines, Kansas City, MO Home: scanner@jurai.net | http://www.twa.com ============================================================================= WINDOWS: All our IP belongs to us. GNU/LINUX: Touch our IP, and your IP belongs to us. BSD: Here's our IP, just use it. ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 21:37: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A720437B404 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J5atq29007; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:36:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J5atx07879; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:36:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2J5atb04655; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:36:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203190536.g2J5atb04655@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: To: zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:36:55 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does this actually contain any useful information on those filesystem formats? How the bits are layed out on disk, etc? I don't need books on how to use filesystems, I want to get into the guts of filesystem and look at how the file and directory information is actually stored on disk, etc. Thanks, Quincey > > This is a book "Linux File Systems" introducing XFS, JFS, Reiserfs, ext3fs > etc. > > -Zhihui > > On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Quincey Koziol wrote: > > > Howdy, > > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) > > which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more research > > about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance of our > > library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) to read > > up on filesystem design? > > > > Thanks, > > Quincey Koziol > > koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 21:38:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D120C37B402 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J5cqq29062; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:38:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J5cqx08014; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:38:52 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2J5cqw04675; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:38:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203190538.g2J5cqw04675@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: To: Anthony Naggs Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:38:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > In article <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, Quincey > Koziol writes > >Howdy, > > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) > >which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more research > >about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance of our > >library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) to read > >up on filesystem design? > > "Practical File System Design" Dominic Giampaolo > Morgan Kaufman Press (www.mkp.com) ISBN 1-55860-497-9 > > This book gives a lot of background and philosophy of the design of a > modern file system, in this case the FS for BeOS. Practical, readable > and surprisingly slim for the tremendous amount of detail. (I'm really > impressed with this book, can you tell?) Ah, yes, I've read this one and was quite impressed with it also.. :-) Although it stopped short in a couple of places, I thought it was a very useful read. > On the net I have seen good documentation for ReiserFS, a quick Google > suggests http://www.reiserfs.org/ as a starting point for this. Ah, cool, I'll check it out, thanks! Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 21:42:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3683F37B436 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J5gKq29296; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:42:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2J5gJx08509; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:42:20 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2J5gJi04830; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:42:19 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:42:19 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Quincey Koziol writes: > > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - > > http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) which has a lot of similarities to a > > filesystem. > > This basically looks like strongly typed filesystem - you could build > this on top of any existing filesystem in FreeBSD using extended > attributes and a userland library. Storing it in a single XML file is > IMHO a regression, especially from a performance standpoint. Or did I > miss some crucial point? Sorta, the crucial part of the HDF5 library and file format is that the files and library are designed to be portable between many different types of machines, so I can't really hard-wire it to FreeBSD (my development platform of choice though... :-). What's the best book or other set of documentation describing the FFS filesystem format? Are there any good books or other pieces of documentation about NTFS? I'm also looking for documentation about how the XFS filesystem is layed out on disk. Thanks, Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 21:52:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9223237B402; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 3CE22AE255; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:52:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:52:26 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: scanner@sasami.jurai.net Cc: Hans Reiser , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, Greg Lehey , Chris Mason , Josh MacDonald , Parity Error , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <20020319055226.GC455@elvis.mu.org> References: <3C96D04B.6060201@namesys.com> <20020318235057.V72935-100000@sasami.jurai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020318235057.V72935-100000@sasami.jurai.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * scanner@sasami.jurai.net [020318 20:51] wrote: > > > > What license is there on that ext2fs code in FreeBSD, is it GPL or other? > > It's the BSDL. No it's not, and could we please FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED get this license thread off the FreeBSD lists? thank you, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 18 23: 6:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from cluster2.tfb.com (cluster2.tfb.com [204.212.132.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC8037B400 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from athlon (vsat-148-64-67-112.c119.t7.mrt.starband.net [148.64.67.112]) by cluster2.tfb.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2J76FM07171; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:06:16 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Jamey Kirby" To: "'Anthony Naggs'" , "'Quincey Koziol'" Cc: Subject: RE: Filesystem books? Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:06:12 -0800 Organization: StorageCraft Message-ID: <002501c1cf14$932f4a10$7101a8c0@athlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "practical file system design with the BE file system": 1-55860-497-9 "VMS File System Internals": 1-55558-056-4 "The Design and Implementation of A Log-Structured File System": 0-7923-9541-7 "Inside The Windows NT File System": 1-55615-660-X "Windows NT File System Internals": 1-56592-249-2 "Inside The Windows 95 File System": 1-56592-200-X There is one more on distributed file system design that I have, but it is not on my bookshelf here in my office. Jamey Kirby StorageCraft, inc. jkirby@storagecraft.com www.storagecraft.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG] On Behalf Of Anthony Naggs Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 5:30 PM To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In article <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, Quincey Koziol writes >Howdy, > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) >which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more research >about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance of our >library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) to read >up on filesystem design? "Practical File System Design" Dominic Giampaolo Morgan Kaufman Press (www.mkp.com) ISBN 1-55860-497-9 This book gives a lot of background and philosophy of the design of a modern file system, in this case the FS for BeOS. Practical, readable and surprisingly slim for the tremendous amount of detail. (I'm really impressed with this book, can you tell?) On the net I have seen good documentation for ReiserFS, a quick Google suggests http://www.reiserfs.org/ as a starting point for this. Cheers, Tony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 0:49:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40CEB37B405 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0266.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.11] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16nFIy-0002cc-00; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:49:17 -0800 Message-ID: <3C96FB77.A4237F32@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:48:55 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jkirby@storagecraft.com Cc: 'Anthony Naggs' , 'Quincey Koziol' , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <002501c1cf14$932f4a10$7101a8c0@athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jamey Kirby wrote: > "practical file system design with the BE file system": 1-55860-497-9 Good. > "VMS File System Internals": 1-55558-056-4 Good, but esoteric. > "The Design and Implementation of A Log-Structured File System": > 0-7923-9541-7 Moderately good. > "Inside The Windows NT File System": 1-55615-660-X > > "Windows NT File System Internals": 1-56592-249-2 I find the Custer books to be lacking. You have to already be familiar with FS code to even use this information to make a read-only NTFS, and you have to be familiar with a couple of common FS techniques before you can safely write an NTFS, and then you have to worry about code structure. I don't hold it against her; they probably wouldn't let her publish in more detail. > "Inside The Windows 95 File System": 1-56592-200-X This is OK, but it's lacking, too. THe problem is that it doesn't cover things that they don't tell you about in the Windows DDK distribution. In particular, how you have to support some of the calls that are needed for the BIOS calls so that you can swap to the FS you add, or other isseus dealing with local media FS's on Windows. > There is one more on distributed file system design that I have, but it > is not on my bookshelf here in my office. One of the better references is the optional purchase AIX File System Driver Writer's guide, which includes documentation on the AIX GFS interface (their VFS switch), and a floopy with sample code on it. It's a two volume set and used to go for about $80. It covers a lot of the practical philosophical aspects. There's always an Internship at Veritas. 8-). The other real place is the IEEE SIG on file system design, and the IEE publications there. Unless you are an IEEE member, you can't get these, though, but the publications should be in any large technical library (e.g. UC Berkeley, IBM Watson Research Center, but probably not your County or City library or community college library), My personal preference is to look at technical reports and scholarly publications: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs Use the search term "filesystem", and you will get 499 documents. Use the search term "file system", and you will get 3981. I'll avoid listing them here. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 7:50:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from cluster2.tfb.com (cluster2.tfb.com [204.212.132.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCE737B420 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from athlon (vsat-148-64-67-112.c119.t7.mrt.starband.net [148.64.67.112]) by cluster2.tfb.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2JFo7M26189; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:50:08 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Jamey Kirby" To: "'Terry Lambert'" Cc: "'Anthony Naggs'" , "'Quincey Koziol'" , Subject: RE: Filesystem books? Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:48:43 -0800 Organization: StorageCraft Message-ID: <000e01c1cf5d$c3920780$7101a8c0@athlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3C96FB77.A4237F32@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>There's always an Internship at Veritas. 8-).<< Surly you are joking Mr. Lambert :) Jamey Kirby StorageCraft, inc. jkirby@storagecraft.com www.storagecraft.com -----Original Message----- From: Terry Lambert [mailto:tlambert2@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 12:49 AM To: jkirby@storagecraft.com Cc: 'Anthony Naggs'; 'Quincey Koziol'; freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? Jamey Kirby wrote: > "practical file system design with the BE file system": 1-55860-497-9 Good. > "VMS File System Internals": 1-55558-056-4 Good, but esoteric. > "The Design and Implementation of A Log-Structured File System": > 0-7923-9541-7 Moderately good. > "Inside The Windows NT File System": 1-55615-660-X > > "Windows NT File System Internals": 1-56592-249-2 I find the Custer books to be lacking. You have to already be familiar with FS code to even use this information to make a read-only NTFS, and you have to be familiar with a couple of common FS techniques before you can safely write an NTFS, and then you have to worry about code structure. I don't hold it against her; they probably wouldn't let her publish in more detail. > "Inside The Windows 95 File System": 1-56592-200-X This is OK, but it's lacking, too. THe problem is that it doesn't cover things that they don't tell you about in the Windows DDK distribution. In particular, how you have to support some of the calls that are needed for the BIOS calls so that you can swap to the FS you add, or other isseus dealing with local media FS's on Windows. > There is one more on distributed file system design that I have, but it > is not on my bookshelf here in my office. One of the better references is the optional purchase AIX File System Driver Writer's guide, which includes documentation on the AIX GFS interface (their VFS switch), and a floopy with sample code on it. It's a two volume set and used to go for about $80. It covers a lot of the practical philosophical aspects. There's always an Internship at Veritas. 8-). The other real place is the IEEE SIG on file system design, and the IEE publications there. Unless you are an IEEE member, you can't get these, though, but the publications should be in any large technical library (e.g. UC Berkeley, IBM Watson Research Center, but probably not your County or City library or community college library), My personal preference is to look at technical reports and scholarly publications: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs Use the search term "filesystem", and you will get 499 documents. Use the search term "file system", and you will get 3981. I'll avoid listing them here. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 7:58:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from cluster1.tfb.com (cluster1.tfb.com [204.212.132.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F4437B400 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:58:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from athlon (vsat-148-64-67-112.c119.t7.mrt.starband.net [148.64.67.112]) by cluster1.tfb.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2JFvnA21685; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:57:50 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Jamey Kirby" To: , "'Terry Lambert'" Cc: "'Anthony Naggs'" , "'Quincey Koziol'" , Subject: RE: Filesystem books? Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800 Organization: StorageCraft Message-ID: <001001c1cf5e$d75a7670$7101a8c0@athlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000e01c1cf5d$c3920780$7101a8c0@athlon> Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And yes, there are many, many documents on the web. Dec has a fantastic potpourri of file system and LVM documents; Fragapinni et al. Jamey Kirby StorageCraft, inc. jkirby@storagecraft.com www.storagecraft.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG] On Behalf Of Jamey Kirby Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:49 AM To: 'Terry Lambert' Cc: 'Anthony Naggs'; 'Quincey Koziol'; freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Filesystem books? >>There's always an Internship at Veritas. 8-).<< Surly you are joking Mr. Lambert :) Jamey Kirby StorageCraft, inc. jkirby@storagecraft.com www.storagecraft.com -----Original Message----- From: Terry Lambert [mailto:tlambert2@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 12:49 AM To: jkirby@storagecraft.com Cc: 'Anthony Naggs'; 'Quincey Koziol'; freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? Jamey Kirby wrote: > "practical file system design with the BE file system": 1-55860-497-9 Good. > "VMS File System Internals": 1-55558-056-4 Good, but esoteric. > "The Design and Implementation of A Log-Structured File System": > 0-7923-9541-7 Moderately good. > "Inside The Windows NT File System": 1-55615-660-X > > "Windows NT File System Internals": 1-56592-249-2 I find the Custer books to be lacking. You have to already be familiar with FS code to even use this information to make a read-only NTFS, and you have to be familiar with a couple of common FS techniques before you can safely write an NTFS, and then you have to worry about code structure. I don't hold it against her; they probably wouldn't let her publish in more detail. > "Inside The Windows 95 File System": 1-56592-200-X This is OK, but it's lacking, too. THe problem is that it doesn't cover things that they don't tell you about in the Windows DDK distribution. In particular, how you have to support some of the calls that are needed for the BIOS calls so that you can swap to the FS you add, or other isseus dealing with local media FS's on Windows. > There is one more on distributed file system design that I have, but it > is not on my bookshelf here in my office. One of the better references is the optional purchase AIX File System Driver Writer's guide, which includes documentation on the AIX GFS interface (their VFS switch), and a floopy with sample code on it. It's a two volume set and used to go for about $80. It covers a lot of the practical philosophical aspects. There's always an Internship at Veritas. 8-). The other real place is the IEEE SIG on file system design, and the IEE publications there. Unless you are an IEEE member, you can't get these, though, but the publications should be in any large technical library (e.g. UC Berkeley, IBM Watson Research Center, but probably not your County or City library or community college library), My personal preference is to look at technical reports and scholarly publications: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs Use the search term "filesystem", and you will get 499 documents. Use the search term "file system", and you will get 3981. I'll avoid listing them here. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 12: 6:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03A237B416 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ubik.demon.co.uk ([194.222.125.229]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16nPs6-000KN9-0Z; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:06:14 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:04:37 +0000 To: Quincey Koziol Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org From: Anthony Naggs Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> In-Reply-To: <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, Quincey Koziol writes > What's the best book or other set of documentation describing the FFS >filesystem format? There is an overview in "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System", ISBN 0-201-54979-4. Otherwise you're stuck reading the source ... > Are there any good books or other pieces of documentation about NTFS? "Inside Microsoft Windows 2000", David Solomon and Mark Russinovich, Microsoft Press ISBN 0-7356-1021-5 Chapter 13 has the best published info. (IMO) Check http://www.sysinternals.com where there are utilities to read NTFS volumes (executable only, I think they had source at one point for an earlier version). FileMon and NTFSinfo utilities are available in source form and allow you to probe some details of a running system. I am (intermittently) putting some resources/pointers together for low level Windows programming. Some of the books mentioned on my web page have snippets of info, http://www.ubik.demon.co.uk/proginfo.html but probably are not at the level you want. Cheers, Tony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 13:12:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ms2.clarkson.edu (mail.clarkson.edu [128.153.4.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F195037B405 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 26115 invoked by uid 94); 19 Mar 2002 21:12:36 -0000 Received: from tuinstra@clarkson.edu by ms2.clarkson.edu with qmail-scanner-1.01 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4191. . Clean. Processed in 21.994666 secs); 19 Mar 2002 21:12:36 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: tuinstra@clarkson.edu via ms2.clarkson.edu X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.01 (Clean. Processed in 21.994666 secs) Received: from crux.clarkson.edu (128.153.4.132) by mail.clarkson.edu with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 21:11:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:11:45 -0500 (EST) From: Dwight Tuinstra To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkirby@storagecraft.com, 'Anthony Naggs' , 'Quincey Koziol' , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <3C96FB77.A4237F32@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: | > "The Design and Implementation of A Log-Structured File System": | > 0-7923-9541-7 | | Moderately good. Also available as a paper (ACM Transactions). Check citeseer. Or does the book go into more detail? --Dwight Tuinstra To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 23:13:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from msg.ds.neowiz.com (msg.neowiz.com [211.48.23.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB8F37B405 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:13:05 -0800 (PST) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: a question related to NFS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CFDE.AD306729" Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:13:03 +0900 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: a question related to NFS Thread-Index: AcHP3q0izjL94Z6ZSlyONe88KBgHzg== From: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?seggwLHBpA==?= To: Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CFDE.AD306729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deer Sir, =20 I have been operating NFS server that mount data from storage(NAS) on = FreeBSD4.2-RELEASE. I got problem that it automatically reboot itself at peak time more than = once in a day. I guessed that is kind of FreeBSD BUG related to NFS. =20 So, I upgrade FreeBSD version FreeBSD4.5-RELEASE because the release = note mentoned "A number of bugs in the filesystem code, discovered = through the use of the fsx filesystem test tool, have been fixed. Under = certain circumstances (primarily related to use of NFS), these bugs = could cause data corruption or kernel panics." =20 But It still reboot itself once or twice in a day after upgrade. there were no hints in /var/log/messages. It just automatically reboot = at peak time suddenly. =20 Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? =20 thank you. =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CFDE.AD306729 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Deer=20 Sir,
 
I have been operating=20 NFS server that mount data from storage(NAS) on=20 FreeBSD4.2-RELEASE.
I got problem that it=20 automatically reboot itself at peak time more than once in a=20 day.
I guessed that is=20 kind of FreeBSD BUG related to NFS.
 
So, I upgrade FreeBSD=20 version FreeBSD4.5-RELEASE because the release note mentoned = "A number of bugs in the filesystem = code,=20 discovered through the use of the fsx filesystem test tool, have been = fixed.=20 Under certain circumstances (primarily related to use of NFS), these = bugs could=20 cause data corruption or kernel panics."
 
But It still reboot itself once or twice in a = day after=20 upgrade.
there were no hints in = /var/log/messages. It just=20 automatically reboot at peak time=20 suddenly.
 
Has anyone heard of=20 this kind of problem?
 
thank you.
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CFDE.AD306729-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 23:13:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B450A37B404 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:13:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 6EB655346; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:35:08 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:35:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Lines: 29 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quincey Koziol writes: > > This basically looks like strongly typed filesystem - you could build > > this on top of any existing filesystem in FreeBSD using extended > > attributes and a userland library. Storing it in a single XML file is > > IMHO a regression, especially from a performance standpoint. Or did I > > miss some crucial point? > Sorta, the crucial part of the HDF5 library and file format is that the > files and library are designed to be portable between many different types > of machines, ...so you end up with something that sucks equally on all supported platforms. Sorry to sound so negative :) I'm not sure if I got my point across, BTW - what I'm saying is that you can implement HDF (or equivalent functionality, anyway) as a userland library that will run on any system that offers POSIX filesystem semantics and (non-POSIX) extended attributes, instead of reinventing the wheel just to end up with something that will crawl like a crippled snail. It might not look as cool on your CV when you're done (not enough buzzwords) but it'd be a damn sight more useful. The biggest hurdle would be adapting the library to the different EA APIs out there. That being said, HDF makes a neat interchange format, once you get rid of the silly limitations on object size & count. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 19 23:41:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3EA37B430 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 24DCEAE0C7; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:41:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:41:13 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: ???????? Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question related to NFS Message-ID: <20020320074113.GA455@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * ???????? [020319 23:13] wrote: > > Deer Sir, > > > > I have been operating NFS server that mount data from storage(NAS) on > FreeBSD4.2-RELEASE. > > I got problem that it automatically reboot itself at peak time more > than once in a day. > > I guessed that is kind of FreeBSD BUG related to NFS. See the section in the handbook on getting a "crashdump" and "traceback", that would help diagnose the problem. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 3:54:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net (badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689E737B405 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.84] helo=gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net) by badboy.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16nbV4-0003BM-00 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:31:14 -0800 Received: from pool0137.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.137] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16nbUP-0006d9-00; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:30:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3C984888.AF010F68@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:30:00 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B1=E8=20=C0=B1=C1=A4?= Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question related to NFS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please don't send MIME to the list. It makes the archives unreadable. > I have been operating NFS server that mount data from storage(NAS) > on FreeBSD4.2-RELEASE. > > I got problem that it automatically reboot itself at peak time more > than once in a day. > I guessed that is kind of FreeBSD BUG related to NFS. > > So, I upgrade FreeBSD version FreeBSD4.5-RELEASE because the release > note mentoned "A number of bugs in the filesystem code, discovered > through the use of the fsx filesystem test tool, have been fixed. > Under certain circumstances (primarily related to use of NFS), these > bugs could cause data corruption or kernel panics." > > But It still reboot itself once or twice in a day after upgrade. > there were no hints in /var/log/messages. It just automatically reboot > at peak time suddenly. > > Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? 1) Is the NAS running FreeBSD? 2) Is the client running FreeBSD? 3) Is the NAS rebooting, or is the client rebooting? 4) If it's a FreeBSD machine rebooting, what does the "netstat -m" say, for several samples leading up to the reboot? If it's a FreeBSD box rebooting, you are probably running out of mbufs for some reason (probably bad tuning for the load you are putting on it, but also possibly a bug). If it's a bug, everyone would be complaining about it, so it's probably not a bug, it's probably tuning, if it's the FreeBSD box. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 12:20:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from hm22.locaweb.com.br (hm22.locaweb.com.br [200.246.179.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEE837B404 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from absoluta ([200.206.190.251]) by hm22.locaweb.com.br with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:17:33 -0300 Message-ID: <000901c1d076$00dd3560$0300a8c0@terra.com.br> From: "contato" To: Subject: Super Oferta !!! 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F//Z ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1D032.F0886F60-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 15:19:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4D437B436 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b137.otenet.gr [212.205.244.145]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2KNJAxY015888; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:19:12 +0200 (EET) Received: from hades.hell.gr (hades [127.0.0.1]) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2KNIw57000929; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:19:06 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g2KNCMNN066378; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:12:22 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:12:21 +0200 (EET) From: Giorgos Keramidas X-X-Sender: charon@hades To: Hiten Pandya Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev]i Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates In-Reply-To: <20020318174641.A1153@hpdi.ath.cx> Message-ID: <20020321010811.E6735-100000@hades> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-03-18 17:46, Hiten Pandya wrote: > So from what you are saying, I can (if I wanted to 8-)) port ReiserFS > to FreeBSD, under the GPL License, but that would be of no point, > because it cannot be used as a boot FS unless a royalty was paid to > the Hans for the rights, right? :) > > I don't understand one thing though, what are we doing in the case of > Ext2FS, which is supported in FreeBSD. As far as I know, the Ext2FS > version of FreeBSD has also got some GPL'ed bits? The Ext2FS is > supplied as a source filesystem on FreeBSD CD-ROMs and people are > allowed to sell them... They are not allowed to link them in the boot kernel used on those cdroms though. The source is made available, but anything that is 'linked' with the GPL is 'tainted'. I have a nice article on my desk by Greg Lehey that explains this in an interesting way. It even has quotes from R. Stallman himself, making a few things more clear. It's title is "Two kinds of advocacy", and you can find it at: http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200202/dadvocate.html Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 15:19:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F1337B419 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b137.otenet.gr [212.205.244.145]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2KNJExY015938; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:19:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from hades.hell.gr (hades [127.0.0.1]) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2KNIw5D000929; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:19:13 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g2KN51hG065988; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:05:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:05:00 +0200 (EET) From: Giorgos Keramidas X-X-Sender: charon@hades To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <200203190536.g2J5atb04655@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20020321010333.P6735-100000@hades> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-03-18 23:36, Quincey Koziol wrote: > Does this actually contain any useful information on those filesystem formats? > How the bits are layed out on disk, etc? I don't need books on how to use > filesystems, I want to get into the guts of filesystem and look at how the > file and directory information is actually stored on disk, etc. If you're interested in how things are laid out on the disks, you might also find the paper by K. McKusick about FFS useful: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/mckusick84fast.html Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 18:58: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470F137B417 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L2w1q29496 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:58:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L2w1x03193 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:58:01 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2L2w1b89931 for freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:58:01 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203210258.g2L2w1b89931@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <002501c1cf14$932f4a10$7101a8c0@athlon> To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:58:01 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ah, very cool, I'll see if I can track them down. Thanks, Quincey > "practical file system design with the BE file system": 1-55860-497-9 > > "VMS File System Internals": 1-55558-056-4 > > "The Design and Implementation of A Log-Structured File System": > 0-7923-9541-7 > > "Inside The Windows NT File System": 1-55615-660-X > > "Windows NT File System Internals": 1-56592-249-2 > > "Inside The Windows 95 File System": 1-56592-200-X > > There is one more on distributed file system design that I have, but it > is not on my bookshelf here in my office. > > Jamey Kirby > StorageCraft, inc. > jkirby@storagecraft.com > www.storagecraft.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG] > On Behalf Of Anthony Naggs > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 5:30 PM > To: Quincey Koziol > Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Filesystem books? > > In article <200203182230.g2IMUwh22651@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, Quincey > Koziol writes > >Howdy, > > I'm working on a scientific file format (HDF5 - > http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu) > >which has a lot of similarities to a filesystem. I'd like to do more > research > >about filesystem techniques for improving the features and performance > of our > >library. Can anyone point out some good books or papers (or web-sites) > to read > >up on filesystem design? > > "Practical File System Design" Dominic Giampaolo > Morgan Kaufman Press (www.mkp.com) ISBN 1-55860-497-9 > > This book gives a lot of background and philosophy of the design of a > modern file system, in this case the FS for BeOS. Practical, readable > and surprisingly slim for the tremendous amount of detail. (I'm really > impressed with this book, can you tell?) > > > On the net I have seen good documentation for ReiserFS, a quick Google > suggests http://www.reiserfs.org/ as a starting point for this. > > > Cheers, > Tony > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 19:13:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D6B37B417 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L3Daq00444 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:13:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L3Dax06036 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:13:36 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2L3Dah90093 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:13:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203210313.g2L3Dah90093@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <3C96FB77.A4237F32@mindspring.com> To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:13:36 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy, > > There is one more on distributed file system design that I have, but it > > is not on my bookshelf here in my office. > > One of the better references is the optional purchase > AIX File System Driver Writer's guide, which includes > documentation on the AIX GFS interface (their VFS switch), > and a floopy with sample code on it. It's a two volume > set and used to go for about $80. It covers a lot of > the practical philosophical aspects. Hmm, how would I track this down? > There's always an Internship at Veritas. 8-). Well, I've already got a full-time engineering job, so an internship is out, but I would think about a position there... ;-) > The other real place is the IEEE SIG on file system > design, and the IEE publications there. Unless you > are an IEEE member, you can't get these, though, but > the publications should be in any large technical library > (e.g. UC Berkeley, IBM Watson Research Center, but probably > not your County or City library or community college library), Ah, we've got a world-class library here at UIUC, so I should be able to track down papers easily. However, I tried to find a file system SIG at the IEEE web-site and can't put my finger on anything... Would you happen to have a link handy? > My personal preference is to look at technical reports > and scholarly publications: > > http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs > > Use the search term "filesystem", and you will get 499 > documents. Use the search term "file system", and you > will get 3981. I'll avoid listing them here. 8-). :-) Thanks, I'll start sifting through them.. Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 19:25:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40EA37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L3PLq01208; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:25:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L3PHx08833; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:25:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2L3P9P90443; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:25:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203210325.g2L3P9P90443@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:25:09 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Quincey Koziol writes: > > > This basically looks like strongly typed filesystem - you could build > > > this on top of any existing filesystem in FreeBSD using extended > > > attributes and a userland library. Storing it in a single XML file is > > > IMHO a regression, especially from a performance standpoint. Or did I > > > miss some crucial point? > > Sorta, the crucial part of the HDF5 library and file format is that the > > files and library are designed to be portable between many different types > > of machines, > > ...so you end up with something that sucks equally on all supported > platforms. Sorry to sound so negative :) Well, there are some challenges... ;-) Seriously though, our I/O speed is typically 70-95% of the raw I/O speed on a system - we have spent significant effort in optimizing our I/O path. > I'm not sure if I got my point across, BTW - what I'm saying is that > you can implement HDF (or equivalent functionality, anyway) as a > userland library that will run on any system that offers POSIX > filesystem semantics and (non-POSIX) extended attributes, instead of > reinventing the wheel just to end up with something that will crawl > like a crippled snail. It might not look as cool on your CV when > you're done (not enough buzzwords) but it'd be a damn sight more > useful. The biggest hurdle would be adapting the library to the > different EA APIs out there. Hmm, what set of the POSIX filesyetem semantics are you talking about? Where is the best place to start looking into EA API stuff for FreeBSD? > That being said, HDF makes a neat interchange format, once you get rid > of the silly limitations on object size & count. Hmm, which limitations are you talking about? I'm one of the main library designers/developers for HDF5 (you are talking about HDF5 right, HDF4 does have a ridiculous number of limitations) and I'm always interested in useful feedback about our design. Thanks, Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 20:23:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F8837B404 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 3A1A75346; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:23:45 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203210325.g2L3P9P90443@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 21 Mar 2002 05:23:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200203210325.g2L3P9P90443@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Lines: 36 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quincey Koziol writes: > Hmm, what set of the POSIX filesyetem semantics are you talking about? The ususal file and directory manipulation functions - open(2), read(2), mkdir(2), stat(2) etc. Think "directory" instead of "group", and "file" instead of "object". > Where is the best place to start looking into EA API stuff for FreeBSD? des@des ~% man -k extattr VOP_GETEXTATTR(9) - retrieve named extended attribute from a vnode VOP_SETEXTATTR(9) - set named extended attribute for a vnode extattr(9) - virtual file system named extended attributes extattr_get_fd(2), extattr_set_fd(2), extattr_delete_fd(2), extattr_get_file(2), extattr_set_file(2), extattr_delete_file(2) - system calls to manipulate VFS extended attributes extattr_namespace_to_string(3), extattr_string_to_namespace(3) - convert an extended attribute namespace identifier to a string and vice versa extattrctl(8) - manage FFS extended attributes getextattr(8) - retrieve a named extended attribute setextattr(8) - set a named extended attribute This is on -CURRENT, mind you. -STABLE has some of it, but not all. The other BSDs support the same API, while Linux is gratuitously different. OS/2 has had extended attributes practically forever, and Windows NT and 2000 have similar facilities under a different name that I don't recall at the moment. On systems that don't support extended attributes natively (Solaris, for instance), you can store your metadata in a Berkely DB file. > > That being said, HDF makes a neat interchange format, once you get rid > > of the silly limitations on object size & count. > Hmm, which limitations are you talking about? Those in HDF4 - I am aware that HDF5 eliminates most of them. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 21:16:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEA637B419 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L5Fuq05793 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:15:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L5Fux24863 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:15:56 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2L5FuH92109 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:15:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203210515.g2L5FuH92109@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:15:56 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > In article <200203190542.g2J5gJi04830@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, Quincey > Koziol writes > > What's the best book or other set of documentation describing the FFS > >filesystem format? > > There is an overview in "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > Operating System", ISBN 0-201-54979-4. Otherwise you're stuck reading > the source ... Already on my list, but thanks! :-) > > Are there any good books or other pieces of documentation about NTFS? > > "Inside Microsoft Windows 2000", David Solomon and Mark Russinovich, > Microsoft Press ISBN 0-7356-1021-5 Chapter 13 has the best published > info. (IMO) Great! I'll add this to the other suggestions about NTFS that have been mentioned and try to find the best one. > Check http://www.sysinternals.com where there are utilities to read NTFS > volumes (executable only, I think they had source at one point for an > earlier version). FileMon and NTFSinfo utilities are available in > source form and allow you to probe some details of a running system. Ok, I may take a look at these, although I really am more interested in a high-level description of the filesystem layout, etc. > I am (intermittently) putting some resources/pointers together for low > level Windows programming. Some of the books mentioned on my web page > have snippets of info, http://www.ubik.demon.co.uk/proginfo.html but > probably are not at the level you want. Actually, it looks like some of the books you list are along the lines of what I'm interested in, thanks! Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 21:33:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0A237B417 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:33:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L5XXq06587 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:33:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2L5XWx27828 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:33:33 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2L5XWC92280 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:33:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203210533.g2L5XWC92280@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <20020321010333.P6735-100000@hades> To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:33:32 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On 2002-03-18 23:36, Quincey Koziol wrote: > > Does this actually contain any useful information on those filesystem formats? > > How the bits are layed out on disk, etc? I don't need books on how to use > > filesystems, I want to get into the guts of filesystem and look at how the > > file and directory information is actually stored on disk, etc. > > If you're interested in how things are laid out on the disks, > you might also find the paper by K. McKusick about FFS useful: > http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/mckusick84fast.html Excellent, I'll check it out. Does anyone know where to find documentation for the layout, etc. for XFS? I've heard good things about its scalability and want to learn more about it if possible. Also, just for grins, does anyone have a reference for the Macintosh HFS+ filesystem? Thanks, Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 20 21:48: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A72837B419 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0641.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.131] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16nvQZ-0007ZW-00; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:55 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9973F6.309C3A71@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:34 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203210533.g2L5XWC92280@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quincey Koziol wrote: > Does anyone know where to find documentation for the layout, etc. for > XFS? I've heard good things about its scalability and want to learn more > about it if possible. I guess you are interested in written theory, instead of just downloading the source code for free from the SGI Open Source web pages? http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ You could alwasys type "XFS" into the SGI technical library search engine: http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/search.cgi -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 6: 5:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDC337B404 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2LE5Jq27271 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:05:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2LE5Jx09051 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:05:19 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2LE5IW84437 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:05:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203211405.g2LE5IW84437@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:05:18 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Quincey Koziol writes: > > Hmm, what set of the POSIX filesyetem semantics are you talking about? > > The ususal file and directory manipulation functions - open(2), > read(2), mkdir(2), stat(2) etc. Think "directory" instead of "group", > and "file" instead of "object". Oh, certainly, we realized this when we started the design for HDF5. However, HDF5 has some features that more filesystems don't have, such as allowing hard links to groups (directories), allowing for a graph instead of a tree of directories. We also allow "anonymous" objects to be created in the group hierarchy, which are linked to from objects and not groups. We were also concerned about moving files easily from one machine to another, which is difficult when all the objects are individual files. Yes, we could re-code tools like ftp & tar to "know about" our funny filesystem, but we fealt that it would be too much work and difficult for our users to use portably across all the different operating systems we supported (many varieties of UNIX, Windows, Macintosh, VMS, etc. :-) > > Where is the best place to start looking into EA API stuff for FreeBSD? > > des@des ~% man -k extattr > VOP_GETEXTATTR(9) - retrieve named extended attribute from a vnode > VOP_SETEXTATTR(9) - set named extended attribute for a vnode > extattr(9) - virtual file system named extended attributes > extattr_get_fd(2), extattr_set_fd(2), extattr_delete_fd(2), extattr_get_file(2), extattr_set_file(2), extattr_delete_file(2) - system calls to manipulate VFS extended attributes > extattr_namespace_to_string(3), extattr_string_to_namespace(3) - convert an extended attribute namespace identifier to a string and vice versa > extattrctl(8) - manage FFS extended attributes > getextattr(8) - retrieve a named extended attribute > setextattr(8) - set a named extended attribute > > This is on -CURRENT, mind you. -STABLE has some of it, but not all. > The other BSDs support the same API, while Linux is gratuitously > different. OS/2 has had extended attributes practically forever, and > Windows NT and 2000 have similar facilities under a different name > that I don't recall at the moment. On systems that don't support > extended attributes natively (Solaris, for instance), you can store > your metadata in a Berkely DB file. Ah, we are trying to have a single file-format that is portable across all the machines. Having different formats on different machines gets away from the whole point. > > > That being said, HDF makes a neat interchange format, once you get rid > > > of the silly limitations on object size & count. > > Hmm, which limitations are you talking about? > > Those in HDF4 - I am aware that HDF5 eliminates most of them. Good. :-) We are ending up designing a portable "filesystem in a file", which is interesting and has somewhat different constraints than "real" filesystems tied to a device... ;-) Thanks, Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 6: 8:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD4937B400 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:08:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2LE8pq27427 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:08:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2LE8px09578 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:08:51 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2LE8ph84458 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:08:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203211408.g2LE8ph84458@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <3C9973F6.309C3A71@mindspring.com> To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:08:51 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Quincey Koziol wrote: > > Does anyone know where to find documentation for the layout, etc. for > > XFS? I've heard good things about its scalability and want to learn more > > about it if possible. > > I guess you are interested in written theory, instead of > just downloading the source code for free from the SGI > Open Source web pages? > > http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ > > You could alwasys type "XFS" into the SGI technical library > search engine: > > http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/search.cgi Ah, great! I'll get started grabbing this information to read. I'll have to put together a web-page with all the filesystem references I've tracked down, when I've got things orgranized. Any takers on references for the Mac's HFS+ system? :-) The "forked" file system which tracks metadata about a file in the "resource" fork separately from the "raw" data in the data fork is similar to our design in some ways. Thanks, Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 6:43:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from TheWorld.com (pcls2.std.com [199.172.62.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B5037B41A for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from world.std.com (root@world-f.std.com [199.172.62.5]) by TheWorld.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10328; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:39:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (smb@localhost) by world.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22800; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:39:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:39:57 -0500 From: Steve M Byan To: Cc: Subject: Re: Filesystem books? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quincey Koziol wrote: > Any takers on references for the Mac's HFS+ system? :-) The "forked" > file system which tracks metadata about a file in the "resource" fork separately > from the "raw" data in the data fork is similar to our design in some ways. An overview of HFS+ can be obtained at and the detailed specification for the on-disk format is at Regards, -Steve Byan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 13:53:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from cluster2.tfb.com (cluster2.tfb.com [204.212.132.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96F437B41A for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from athlon (vsat-148-64-67-112.c119.t7.mrt.starband.net [148.64.67.112]) by cluster2.tfb.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2LLr0M08030; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:53:02 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Jamey Kirby" To: "'Steve M Byan'" , Cc: Subject: RE: Filesystem books? Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:53:01 -0800 Organization: StorageCraft Message-ID: <000c01c1d122$c9fe8b40$7101a8c0@athlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, here is the link I have been looking for. Not the links near the bottom of the page: http://www.microsoft.com/DDK/IFSkit/links.asp Jamey Kirby StorageCraft, inc. jkirby@storagecraft.com www.storagecraft.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve M Byan Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:40 AM To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Filesystem books? Quincey Koziol wrote: > Any takers on references for the Mac's HFS+ system? :-) The "forked" > file system which tracks metadata about a file in the "resource" fork separately > from the "raw" data in the data fork is similar to our design in some ways. An overview of HFS+ can be obtained at and the detailed specification for the on-disk format is at Regards, -Steve Byan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 14:58:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740E137B41C for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0042.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.42] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16oBVZ-0000Jt-00; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:58:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9A656E.A2E37D42@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:57:50 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Quincey Koziol Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem books? References: <200203211408.g2LE8ph84458@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quincey Koziol wrote: > Ah, great! I'll get started grabbing this information to read. > > I'll have to put together a web-page with all the filesystem references > I've tracked down, when I've got things orgranized. > Any takers on references for the Mac's HFS+ system? :-) The "forked" > file system which tracks metadata about a file in the "resource" fork separately > from the "raw" data in the data fork is similar to our design in some ways. Uh, I think you need to learn to use a search engine like Google. The "freebsd-fs" search engine is OK, but the number of cycles it takes away from other tasks is pretty high, compared to, say, "Yahoo". 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 18:50:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from msg.ds.neowiz.com (msg.neowiz.com [211.48.23.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2112737B417 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:50:40 -0800 (PST) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: a question related to NFS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:50:38 +0900 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: a question related to NFS Thread-Index: AcHRTFlYNT+tIEk9QDiitsn48Y6I5A== From: =?utf-8?B?6rmAIOycpOyglQ==?= To: "Terry Lambert" Cc: Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org MSkgb25lIG9mIHNlcnZlcihOQVMpICBydW5uaW5nIG9uIE5lQXBwIGFuZCB0aGUgb3RoZXIgc2Vy dmVyKFNBTikgcnVubmluZyBvbiBIaXRhY2gNCg0KMikgdGhlIGNsaWVudCBydW5uaW5nIG9uIEZy ZWVCU0QNCg0KMykgdGhlIGNsaWVudCByZWJvb3Rpbmcgb25jZSBvciB0d2ljZSBpbiBwZWFrIHRp bWUuICggdGhlcmUgd2FzIG5vIGVycm9yIGxvZykNCg0KNCkgbmV0c3RhdCAtcm0gc2F5ICANCmJv YXJkcjQgL3NheWNsdWIgMSAlIG5ldHN0YXQgLXJtDQo4ODUvMjA0OC8zNDgxNiBtYnVmcyBpbiB1 c2UgKGN1cnJlbnQvcGVhay9tYXgpOg0KICAgICAgICA3MzAgbWJ1ZnMgYWxsb2NhdGVkIHRvIGRh dGENCiAgICAgICAgMTU1IG1idWZzIGFsbG9jYXRlZCB0byBwYWNrZXQgaGVhZGVycw0KNTgxLzEx MDQvODcwNCBtYnVmIGNsdXN0ZXJzIGluIHVzZSAoY3VycmVudC9wZWFrL21heCkNCjI3MjAgS2J5 dGVzIGFsbG9jYXRlZCB0byBuZXR3b3JrICgxMCUgb2YgbWJfbWFwIGluIHVzZSkNCjAgcmVxdWVz dHMgZm9yIG1lbW9yeSBkZW5pZWQNCjAgcmVxdWVzdHMgZm9yIG1lbW9yeSBkZWxheWVkDQowIGNh bGxzIHRvIHByb3RvY29sIGRyYWluIHJvdXRpbmVzDQoNCjUpIEkgdGhvdWdodCBpdCdzIG5vdCBt YnVmIHByb2JsZW0uDQogICAgY291bGQgeW91IGhlbHAgbWUgb25jZSBtb3JlIEkgZmluZCBvdXQg YWJvdXQgdGhpcyBwcm9ibGVtID8NCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogVGVycnkgTGFtYmVydCBbbWFpbHRvOnRsYW1iZXJ0MkBtaW5kc3ByaW5nLmNvbV0NClNlbnQ6 IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgTWFyY2ggMjAsIDIwMDIgNTozMCBQTQ0KVG86IMKxw6ggw4DCscOBwqQNCkNj OiBmcmVlYnNkLWZzQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogYSBxdWVzdGlvbiByZWxhdGVk IHRvIE5GUw0KDQoNClBsZWFzZSBkb24ndCBzZW5kIE1JTUUgdG8gdGhlIGxpc3QuICBJdCBtYWtl cyB0aGUgYXJjaGl2ZXMNCnVucmVhZGFibGUuDQoNCj4gSSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gb3BlcmF0aW5nIE5G UyBzZXJ2ZXIgdGhhdCBtb3VudCBkYXRhIGZyb20gc3RvcmFnZShOQVMpDQo+IG9uIEZyZWVCU0Q0 LjItUkVMRUFTRS4NCj4NCj4gSSBnb3QgcHJvYmxlbSB0aGF0IGl0IGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgcmVi b290IGl0c2VsZiBhdCBwZWFrIHRpbWUgbW9yZQ0KPiB0aGFuIG9uY2UgaW4gYSBkYXkuDQo+IEkg Z3Vlc3NlZCB0aGF0IGlzIGtpbmQgb2YgRnJlZUJTRCBCVUcgcmVsYXRlZCB0byBORlMuDQo+IA0K PiBTbywgSSB1cGdyYWRlIEZyZWVCU0QgdmVyc2lvbiBGcmVlQlNENC41LVJFTEVBU0UgYmVjYXVz ZSB0aGUgcmVsZWFzZQ0KPiBub3RlIG1lbnRvbmVkICJBIG51bWJlciBvZiBidWdzIGluIHRoZSBm aWxlc3lzdGVtIGNvZGUsIGRpc2NvdmVyZWQNCj4gdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBmc3gg ZmlsZXN5c3RlbSB0ZXN0IHRvb2wsIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBmaXhlZC4NCj4gVW5kZXIgY2VydGFpbiBj aXJjdW1zdGFuY2VzIChwcmltYXJpbHkgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB1c2Ugb2YgTkZTKSwgdGhlc2UNCj4g YnVncyBjb3VsZCBjYXVzZSBkYXRhIGNvcnJ1cHRpb24gb3Iga2VybmVsIHBhbmljcy4iDQo+IA0K PiBCdXQgSXQgc3RpbGwgcmVib290IGl0c2VsZiBvbmNlIG9yIHR3aWNlIGluIGEgZGF5IGFmdGVy IHVwZ3JhZGUuDQo+IHRoZXJlIHdlcmUgbm8gaGludHMgaW4gL3Zhci9sb2cvbWVzc2FnZXMuIEl0 IGp1c3QgYXV0b21hdGljYWxseSByZWJvb3QNCj4gYXQgcGVhayB0aW1lIHN1ZGRlbmx5Lg0KPiAN Cj4gSGFzIGFueW9uZSBoZWFyZCBvZiB0aGlzIGtpbmQgb2YgcHJvYmxlbT8NCg0KMSkJSXMgdGhl IE5BUyBydW5uaW5nIEZyZWVCU0Q/DQoNCjIpCUlzIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgcnVubmluZyBGcmVlQlNE Pw0KDQozKQlJcyB0aGUgTkFTIHJlYm9vdGluZywgb3IgaXMgdGhlIGNsaWVudCByZWJvb3Rpbmc/ DQoNCjQpCUlmIGl0J3MgYSBGcmVlQlNEIG1hY2hpbmUgcmVib290aW5nLCB3aGF0IGRvZXMgdGhl DQoJIm5ldHN0YXQgLW0iIHNheSwgZm9yIHNldmVyYWwgc2FtcGxlcyBsZWFkaW5nIHVwIHRvDQoJ dGhlIHJlYm9vdD8NCg0KSWYgaXQncyBhIEZyZWVCU0QgYm94IHJlYm9vdGluZywgeW91IGFyZSBw cm9iYWJseSBydW5uaW5nDQpvdXQgb2YgbWJ1ZnMgZm9yIHNvbWUgcmVhc29uIChwcm9iYWJseSBi YWQgdHVuaW5nIGZvciB0aGUNCmxvYWQgeW91IGFyZSBwdXR0aW5nIG9uIGl0LCBidXQgYWxzbyBw b3NzaWJseSBhIGJ1ZykuICBJZg0KaXQncyBhIGJ1ZywgZXZlcnlvbmUgd291bGQgYmUgY29tcGxh aW5pbmcgYWJvdXQgaXQsIHNvIGl0J3MNCnByb2JhYmx5IG5vdCBhIGJ1ZywgaXQncyBwcm9iYWJs eSB0dW5pbmcsIGlmIGl0J3MgdGhlIEZyZWVCU0QNCmJveC4NCg0KLS0gVGVycnkNCg== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 22:19:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ns.c-gates.cz (ns.c-gates.cz [62.168.12.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F84A37B400; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from portugalmail.com (1Cust133.tnt25.dfw9.da.uu.net [67.234.6.133]) by ns.c-gates.cz (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA00326; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:44:55 +0100 From: d3245@miesto.sk Message-Id: <200203220644.HAA00326@ns.c-gates.cz> To: Subject: Job security?? 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To find out how you can participate and achieve a monthly income of between 4% and 8% (50% to 80% yearly) with a relatively small investment contact us now: http://61.129.78.70/cl6 ============================================================================ Opt-Out Instructions: investment@btamail.net.cn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Mar 21 22:32:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B60A37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0183.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.183] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16oIbS-0005yI-00; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:32:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9ACFF7.88AAE8B8@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:32:23 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ? ?? Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question related to NFS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If it just plain reboots, with no message or anything, then you will have to put debugging into the double fault handler. For most cases, you need to enable DDB and breaking to the debugger on a panic, and the panic will cause the node to stop functioning entirely, until a human has examined the problem. By "just rebooting".... if it happens around a certain time, then you need to be there around that time. We had a problem with one system that turned out to be the Janirot plugging his floor buffer into the same circuit as the external disk enclosure. 8-). In any case, if it's a FreeBSD box rebooting, you need to trap the reboot. One thing you could do is, on reboot, send a signal to a different machine, using a program in rc.local, and have that different machine doing a tcpdump. That way you can capture the packet sequence that results in the reboot and recreate it at will, which would help immensely in debugging it. IMO, you are actually hitting a resource barrier that you don't know about, and that's why you are getting the failure. Do you know if there is a panic message on the reboot, or not? Also, the "netstat -m" only helps if you so it every minute up to the crash, saving them off, so that you can plot the values and se if there is a trend. If there isn't, then the next thing you will need to plot is vmstat -m values, and so on. Basically, until you capture the failure, all we can do is be sympathetic about the fact you had one, because the only information we have to help you with is what you give us: there is no well known bug that could be causing the behaviour you are seeing, so it has to be peculiar to your situation. -- Terry ? ?? wrote: > = > 1) one of server(NAS) running on NeApp and the other server(SAN) runni= ng on Hitach > = > 2) the client running on FreeBSD > = > 3) the client rebooting once or twice in peak time. ( there was no erro= r log) > = > 4) netstat -rm say > boardr4 /sayclub 1 % netstat -rm > 885/2048/34816 mbufs in use (current/peak/max): > 730 mbufs allocated to data > 155 mbufs allocated to packet headers > 581/1104/8704 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) > 2720 Kbytes allocated to network (10% of mb_map in use) > 0 requests for memory denied > 0 requests for memory delayed > 0 calls to protocol drain routines > = > 5) I thought it's not mbuf problem. > could you help me once more I find out about this problem ? > = > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Lambert [mailto:tlambert2@mindspring.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 5:30 PM > To: =C2=B1=C3=A8 =C3=80=C2=B1=C3=81=C2=A4 > Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: a question related to NFS > = > Please don't send MIME to the list. It makes the archives > unreadable. > = > > I have been operating NFS server that mount data from storage(NAS) > > on FreeBSD4.2-RELEASE. > > > > I got problem that it automatically reboot itself at peak time more > > than once in a day. > > I guessed that is kind of FreeBSD BUG related to NFS. > > > > So, I upgrade FreeBSD version FreeBSD4.5-RELEASE because the release > > note mentoned "A number of bugs in the filesystem code, discovered > > through the use of the fsx filesystem test tool, have been fixed. > > Under certain circumstances (primarily related to use of NFS), these > > bugs could cause data corruption or kernel panics." > > > > But It still reboot itself once or twice in a day after upgrade. > > there were no hints in /var/log/messages. It just automatically reboo= t > > at peak time suddenly. > > > > Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? > = > 1) Is the NAS running FreeBSD? > = > 2) Is the client running FreeBSD? > = > 3) Is the NAS rebooting, or is the client rebooting? > = > 4) If it's a FreeBSD machine rebooting, what does the > "netstat -m" say, for several samples leading up to > the reboot? > = > If it's a FreeBSD box rebooting, you are probably running > out of mbufs for some reason (probably bad tuning for the > load you are putting on it, but also possibly a bug). If > it's a bug, everyone would be complaining about it, so it's > probably not a bug, it's probably tuning, if it's the FreeBSD > box. > = > -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 3:55:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fm3.freemail.hu (fm3.freemail.hu [195.228.242.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F6FB37B400 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 96701 invoked by uid 851822); 23 Mar 2002 12:55:22 +0100 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:55:22 +0100 (CET) From: Jozsef Attila Subject: more than 1T To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [152.66.142.195] X-HTTP-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-2 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org i wonder if there is a way to by-pass the 1 terrabyte limit in FreeBSD. i have a vinum volume which is bigger than 1 terrabyte and i would like to "see" it as one fs. some people suggested me to slice it up, but what if i want to see it as one... looking for solutions... regards mininx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 9:58:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from prometheus.vh.laserfence.net (prometheus.laserfence.net [196.44.73.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7677037B4B0; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.vh.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.10]) by prometheus.vh.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16oplY-0002Mx-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:57:20 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:57:20 +0200 (SAST) From: Willie Viljoen X-X-Sender: will@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Subject: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller Message-ID: <20020323195007.K189-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm posting this to both lists as a matter of interest, my apologies to whoever should not be reading this. I recently installed an off-board IDE controller to manage a large hard drive in my system. FreeBSD has been exhibiting some rather unsettling instabilities, which usually culminate in a kernel panic. Upon reboot after the panic, all the file systems on the drive in question have hundreds of softupdate inconsistencies. I searched the mailing list archives and found a similar bug involved with striped vinum volumes and unmounting after heavy I/O. I have encountered the bug with the GENERIC kernel included with FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE, and all 4.5-STABLE kernels I have built after installation. It only seems to occur when the drive is handling heavy I/O operations, notably during a make world, or a large file copy, and even once when I recursively changed ownership for an entire directory in /usr/home. (The drive handles all filesystems except /) The IDE controller is a CMD-649 PCI ATA-100 controller. CMD state on their web site that they do not provide end-user support or hardware. The hardware vendor, STLab, does not seem to exist. Have I been looking in the wrong place, or simply not looking hard enough, is this a known bug and if so how can I fix it? Kind Regards Willie Viljoen -- Willie Viljoen Private IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 +27 82 404 03 27 will@laserfence.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 10:33:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6751437B417 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:33:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0081.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.81] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16oqKA-0006Pj-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:33:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9CCA4E.B9836D32@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:32:46 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jozsef Attila Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: more than 1T References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Use the raw volume without using a disklabel. This was just discussed to death a week ago. Use the raw volume without using a disklabel. -- Terry Jozsef Attila wrote: > > i wonder if there is a way to by-pass the 1 terrabyte limit > in FreeBSD. i have a vinum volume which is bigger than 1 > terrabyte and i would like to "see" it as one fs. some > people suggested me to slice it up, but what if i want to > see it as one... > looking for solutions... > > regards > mininx > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 10:36: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE26D37B400; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0081.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.81] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16oqMe-0001Bs-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:35:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9CCAE8.4A9B9FB6@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:35:20 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Viljoen Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller References: <20020323195007.K189-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Disable write caching on the drives. THis is a FAQ. -- Terry Willie Viljoen wrote: > > I'm posting this to both lists as a matter of interest, my apologies to > whoever should not be reading this. > > I recently installed an off-board IDE controller to manage a large hard > drive in my system. > > FreeBSD has been exhibiting some rather unsettling instabilities, which > usually culminate in a kernel panic. > > Upon reboot after the panic, all the file systems on the drive in question > have hundreds of softupdate inconsistencies. > > I searched the mailing list archives and found a similar bug involved with > striped vinum volumes and unmounting after heavy I/O. > > I have encountered the bug with the GENERIC kernel included with FreeBSD > 4.5-RELEASE, and all 4.5-STABLE kernels I have built after installation. > > It only seems to occur when the drive is handling heavy I/O operations, > notably during a make world, or a large file copy, and even once when I > recursively changed ownership for an entire directory in /usr/home. (The > drive handles all filesystems except /) > > The IDE controller is a CMD-649 PCI ATA-100 controller. CMD state on their > web site that they do not provide end-user support or hardware. The > hardware vendor, STLab, does not seem to exist. > > Have I been looking in the wrong place, or simply not looking hard > enough, is this a known bug and if so how can I fix it? > > Kind Regards > Willie Viljoen > > -- > Willie Viljoen > Private IT Consultant > > 214 Paul Kruger Avenue > Universitas > Bloemfontein > 9321 > > South Africa > > +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 > +27 82 404 03 27 > > will@laserfence.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 10:52:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from prometheus.vh.laserfence.net (prometheus.laserfence.net [196.44.73.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A98A37B404; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.vh.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.10]) by prometheus.vh.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16oqcZ-0002PA-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0200 (SAST) From: Willie Viljoen X-X-Sender: will@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller In-Reply-To: <3C9CCAE8.4A9B9FB6@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020323205001.R204-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Indeed, apologies to Craig and Terry... Although no system settings seem to exist to disable write caching from the BIOS of my motherboard or my controller, I tried to do this with the hw.ata.wc sysctl as described in the handbook (I know I should have checked there fist) To my dismay, this sysctl claims to be read-only on my system, and I'm still stuck with write caching enable. Could this lock be caused by the driver for my ATA-100 controller, or do I need to add some kernel options? Regards Will On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > Disable write caching on the drives. THis is a FAQ. > > -- Terry > > Willie Viljoen wrote: > > > > I'm posting this to both lists as a matter of interest, my apologies to > > whoever should not be reading this. > > > > I recently installed an off-board IDE controller to manage a large hard > > drive in my system. > > > > FreeBSD has been exhibiting some rather unsettling instabilities, which > > usually culminate in a kernel panic. > > > > Upon reboot after the panic, all the file systems on the drive in question > > have hundreds of softupdate inconsistencies. > > > > I searched the mailing list archives and found a similar bug involved with > > striped vinum volumes and unmounting after heavy I/O. > > > > I have encountered the bug with the GENERIC kernel included with FreeBSD > > 4.5-RELEASE, and all 4.5-STABLE kernels I have built after installation. > > > > It only seems to occur when the drive is handling heavy I/O operations, > > notably during a make world, or a large file copy, and even once when I > > recursively changed ownership for an entire directory in /usr/home. (The > > drive handles all filesystems except /) > > > > The IDE controller is a CMD-649 PCI ATA-100 controller. CMD state on their > > web site that they do not provide end-user support or hardware. The > > hardware vendor, STLab, does not seem to exist. > > > > Have I been looking in the wrong place, or simply not looking hard > > enough, is this a known bug and if so how can I fix it? > > > > Kind Regards > > Willie Viljoen > > > > -- > > Willie Viljoen > > Private IT Consultant > > > > 214 Paul Kruger Avenue > > Universitas > > Bloemfontein > > 9321 > > > > South Africa > > > > +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 > > +27 82 404 03 27 > > > > will@laserfence.net > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-bugs" in the body of the message > > > -- Willie Viljoen Private IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 +27 82 404 03 27 will@laserfence.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 11: 1: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from prometheus.vh.laserfence.net (prometheus.laserfence.net [196.44.73.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFCB37B417; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.vh.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.10]) by prometheus.vh.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16oqkl-0002PT-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:35 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:35 +0200 (SAST) From: Willie Viljoen X-X-Sender: will@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller In-Reply-To: <20020323205001.R204-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> Message-ID: <20020323205904.M187-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Apologies all around. This should hopefully be my last post. In my ignorance I didn't realise that certain sysctls can't change at runtime... Simply for the reference of people searching the archives in future, to solve the problem, turn off write caching at boot time in /boot/loader.conf by adding the line hw.ata.wc=0 Apologies once again. Will On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Willie Viljoen wrote: > Indeed, apologies to Craig and Terry... > > Although no system settings seem to exist to disable write caching from > the BIOS of my motherboard or my controller, I tried to do this with the > hw.ata.wc sysctl as described in the handbook (I know I should have > checked there fist) > > To my dismay, this sysctl claims to be read-only on my system, and I'm > still stuck with write caching enable. Could this lock be caused by the > driver for my ATA-100 controller, or do I need to add some kernel options? > > Regards > Will > > On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Disable write caching on the drives. THis is a FAQ. > > > > -- Terry > > > > Willie Viljoen wrote: > > > > > > I'm posting this to both lists as a matter of interest, my apologies to > > > whoever should not be reading this. > > > > > > I recently installed an off-board IDE controller to manage a large hard > > > drive in my system. > > > > > > FreeBSD has been exhibiting some rather unsettling instabilities, which > > > usually culminate in a kernel panic. > > > > > > Upon reboot after the panic, all the file systems on the drive in question > > > have hundreds of softupdate inconsistencies. > > > > > > I searched the mailing list archives and found a similar bug involved with > > > striped vinum volumes and unmounting after heavy I/O. > > > > > > I have encountered the bug with the GENERIC kernel included with FreeBSD > > > 4.5-RELEASE, and all 4.5-STABLE kernels I have built after installation. > > > > > > It only seems to occur when the drive is handling heavy I/O operations, > > > notably during a make world, or a large file copy, and even once when I > > > recursively changed ownership for an entire directory in /usr/home. (The > > > drive handles all filesystems except /) > > > > > > The IDE controller is a CMD-649 PCI ATA-100 controller. CMD state on their > > > web site that they do not provide end-user support or hardware. The > > > hardware vendor, STLab, does not seem to exist. > > > > > > Have I been looking in the wrong place, or simply not looking hard > > > enough, is this a known bug and if so how can I fix it? > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > Willie Viljoen > > > > > > -- > > > Willie Viljoen > > > Private IT Consultant > > > > > > 214 Paul Kruger Avenue > > > Universitas > > > Bloemfontein > > > 9321 > > > > > > South Africa > > > > > > +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 > > > +27 82 404 03 27 > > > > > > will@laserfence.net > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-bugs" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > -- Willie Viljoen Private IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 +27 82 404 03 27 will@laserfence.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 12:54:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5CEF37B419 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:54:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2NKsrq14438 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:54:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2NKsqx08604 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:54:52 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2NKsqI97386 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:54:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203232054.g2NKsqI97386@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: RE: Filesystem books? (fwd) To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:54:52 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy all, Forwarding some updated information about HFS+ from Steve Byan. Cheers, Quincey ----- Forwarded message from Byan, Stephen ----- Message-ID: <378289F42B3FD51185AD0002B3302CF402881F5E@mmaexc01.mma.maxtor.com> From: Byan, Stephen To: koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu Subject: RE: Filesystem books? Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:57:32 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-MD5SUM: 3ee06d463bf5a9412d3686bcb40cabbf Oops, the first link is a description of HFS, the predecessor to HFS+, not an overview of HFS+. Also Apple's source for their HFS+ implementation in MacOS X can be obtained at . It's hard for me to post to the freebsd fs list, as I subscribe using an address that is forwarded, so I'd appreciate it if you would forward these corrections to the list. Thanks. Regards, -Steve Byan ----- End of forwarded message from Byan, Stephen ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 12:58:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A9637B404 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2NKwJq14533 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:58:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.21.161]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2NKwIx09017 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:58:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from koziol@localhost) by sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2NKwIH97440 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:58:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koziol) From: Quincey Koziol Message-Id: <200203232058.g2NKwIH97440@sleipnir.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Filesystem books? In-Reply-To: <3C9A656E.A2E37D42@mindspring.com> To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:58:18 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Quincey Koziol wrote: > > Ah, great! I'll get started grabbing this information to read. > > > > I'll have to put together a web-page with all the filesystem references > > I've tracked down, when I've got things orgranized. > > Any takers on references for the Mac's HFS+ system? :-) The "forked" > > file system which tracks metadata about a file in the "resource" fork separately > > from the "raw" data in the data fork is similar to our design in some ways. > > Uh, I think you need to learn to use a search engine like Google. > > The "freebsd-fs" search engine is OK, but the number of > cycles it takes away from other tasks is pretty high, > compared to, say, "Yahoo". > > 8-). :-) Sorry, I didn't mean to impose on people, but rather to tap into the collective experience and then got a bit excited. At least the information is recorded in the archives now... :-) I'll post a message when I've got a web-page written up with the information I dig up. Thanks all! Quincey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 15:31:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979A037B42A; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g2NNTUk63652; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:29:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:29:30 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Terry Lambert Cc: Willie Viljoen , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller In-Reply-To: <3C9CCAE8.4A9B9FB6@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > Disable write caching on the drives. THis is a FAQ. Hmm. I thought the wc bit should only affect this sort of scenario in the event that the system was actually powered off; otherwise, the hard disk can still flush to disk gradually as it. From the description, it seems the system panics, but power is never removed from the drives. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the problem goes away on the basis that this will substantially change system behavior for performance reasons, hiding whatever subtle bug it is :-). > Willie Viljoen wrote: > > > > I'm posting this to both lists as a matter of interest, my apologies to > > whoever should not be reading this. > > > > I recently installed an off-board IDE controller to manage a large hard > > drive in my system. > > > > FreeBSD has been exhibiting some rather unsettling instabilities, which > > usually culminate in a kernel panic. > > > > Upon reboot after the panic, all the file systems on the drive in question > > have hundreds of softupdate inconsistencies. > > > > I searched the mailing list archives and found a similar bug involved with > > striped vinum volumes and unmounting after heavy I/O. > > > > I have encountered the bug with the GENERIC kernel included with FreeBSD > > 4.5-RELEASE, and all 4.5-STABLE kernels I have built after installation. > > > > It only seems to occur when the drive is handling heavy I/O operations, > > notably during a make world, or a large file copy, and even once when I > > recursively changed ownership for an entire directory in /usr/home. (The > > drive handles all filesystems except /) > > > > The IDE controller is a CMD-649 PCI ATA-100 controller. CMD state on their > > web site that they do not provide end-user support or hardware. The > > hardware vendor, STLab, does not seem to exist. > > > > Have I been looking in the wrong place, or simply not looking hard > > enough, is this a known bug and if so how can I fix it? > > > > Kind Regards > > Willie Viljoen > > > > -- > > Willie Viljoen > > Private IT Consultant > > > > 214 Paul Kruger Avenue > > Universitas > > Bloemfontein > > 9321 > > > > South Africa > > > > +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 > > +27 82 404 03 27 > > > > will@laserfence.net > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 15:55:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from web10105.mail.yahoo.com (web10105.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A7B637B417 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:55:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020323235545.32054.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.82.102.104] by web10105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:55:45 PST Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:55:45 -0800 (PST) From: John Hanley Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller To: Robert Watson Cc: Willie Viljoen , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > turn off write caching at boot time in > /boot/loader.conf by adding the line hw.ata.wc=0 Surely a default install should result in write caching disabled, right? Since any new filesystems will default to using soft update. Cheers, JH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 16:10: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6369037B419; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g2O09hk64068; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:09:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:09:43 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: John Hanley Cc: Willie Viljoen , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, re@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller In-Reply-To: <20020323235545.32054.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, John Hanley wrote: > > turn off write caching at boot time in > > /boot/loader.conf by adding the line hw.ata.wc=0 > > Surely a default install should result in write caching disabled, right? > Since any new filesystems will default to using soft update. We turned it off by default in 4.4-RELEASE, I believe, and got utterly pounded in the benchmarks, magazine reviews, etc, and turned it back on for later RELENG_4 releases. On 5.0-CURRENT, it's off again by default due to the assumptions concerning background fsck, which is on by default. At some point, we need to have that whole discussion again. Basically, vendors ship hardware that don't conform to standards specifications, and consistency guarantees are thrown out the window if you use the default settings. If you disable write caching, you will see a very high performance hit on most modern disks. I suppose we need to think about this for DP1 also. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 17:16:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from rip.psg.com (rip.psg.com [147.28.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB6637B404 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:16:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from randy by rip.psg.com with local (Exim 4.00) id 16owck-000PJb-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0800 From: Randy Bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: John Hanley Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller References: <20020323235545.32054.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > any new filesystems will default to using soft update. i think i had to turn it on partition by partition in my last sysinstall. randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 21:26:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C74C37B419; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:26:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0282.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.27] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16p0WC-0002PM-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:26:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9D635E.71D803B8@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:25:50 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Viljoen Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller References: <20020323205001.R204-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Willie Viljoen wrote: > Although no system settings seem to exist to disable write caching from > the BIOS of my motherboard or my controller, I tried to do this with the > hw.ata.wc sysctl as described in the handbook (I know I should have > checked there fist) > > To my dismay, this sysctl claims to be read-only on my system, and I'm > still stuck with write caching enable. Could this lock be caused by the > driver for my ATA-100 controller, or do I need to add some kernel options? This parameter has to be set at boot time, either in the loader.conf file, or by hand by interrupting the load and setting it in the boot environment before continuing to boot the kernel. If you are using an IDE RAID controller, this may have to be set by talking to the controller, since the drives are not directly under your control. If it is merely a RAID controller that appears to be an ATA drive, it should propagate through, no problem, if the controller is correctly designed. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 21:32:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4379D37B417; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0282.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.27] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16p0ca-00078v-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:32:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3C9D64EA.BBE84A89@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:32:26 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Willie Viljoen , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Disable write caching on the drives. THis is a FAQ. > > Hmm. I thought the wc bit should only affect this sort of scenario in the > event that the system was actually powered off; otherwise, the hard disk > can still flush to disk gradually as it. From the description, it seems > the system panics, but power is never removed from the drives. That said, > I wouldn't be surprised if the problem goes away on the basis that this > will substantially change system behavior for performance reasons, hiding > whatever subtle bug it is :-). The drive lies about commiting data to stable storage. This blows away all the hard work soft updates does trying to ensure ordering. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Mar 23 23:49:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from prometheus.vh.laserfence.net (prometheus.laserfence.net [196.44.73.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887BE37B404; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.vh.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.10]) by prometheus.vh.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16p2kj-0002hQ-00; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:21 +0200 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:19 +0200 (SAST) From: Willie Viljoen X-X-Sender: will@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net To: Robert Watson Cc: John Hanley , , Subject: Re: Soft update instability with heavy IO and offboard IDE controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020324094355.X212-100000@phoenix.vh.laserfence.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, I've yet to experiment with this, but I'm going to try and disable write caching in other operating systems where this configuration also has data loss and such problems. Might it be the problem is with the hardware, and not necessary the kernel? If anybody out there has anything similar to try and recreate this, the controller is a CMD-649 PCI ATA-100 (I know I said that before, but repeat it just incase) and the drive is a Seagate ST340810A 40GB 5400RPM ATA100. The drive is connected with standard 80-conductor cable which was supplied with the controller and runs at full speed (UDMA mode 4) I remember in the past some CMD controllers have given semi-serious troubles, specifically the 64x range, for which Linux developers have had to code several performance destroying kernel level workarounds. As for performance, I didn't really notice any significant hit on the system, so it might be that on this configuration write caching works so badly it doesn't really speed things up. Will On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, John Hanley wrote: > > > > turn off write caching at boot time in > > > /boot/loader.conf by adding the line hw.ata.wc=0 > > > > Surely a default install should result in write caching disabled, right? > > Since any new filesystems will default to using soft update. > > We turned it off by default in 4.4-RELEASE, I believe, and got utterly > pounded in the benchmarks, magazine reviews, etc, and turned it back on > for later RELENG_4 releases. On 5.0-CURRENT, it's off again by default > due to the assumptions concerning background fsck, which is on by default. > At some point, we need to have that whole discussion again. Basically, > vendors ship hardware that don't conform to standards specifications, and > consistency guarantees are thrown out the window if you use the default > settings. If you disable write caching, you will see a very high > performance hit on most modern disks. > > I suppose we need to think about this for DP1 also. > > Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project > robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > > > -- Willie Viljoen Private IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60, a/h +27 51 522 44 36 +27 82 404 03 27 will@laserfence.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message