From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 9:26:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6267337B405 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 09:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g45GQLD41377; Sun, 5 May 2002 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id g45GQL905157; Sun, 5 May 2002 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205051626.g45GQL905157@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Cc: dan@langille.org Subject: Re: using cvsup to put the same collection in two places In-Reply-To: <20010505162115.1FFC83F45@bast.unixathome.org> References: <20010505162115.1FFC83F45@bast.unixathome.org> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <20010505162115.1FFC83F45@bast.unixathome.org>, Dan Langille wrote: > The objective: > > I want the same collection in two different places, but I want to use two > different refuse files. Some parts of the collection I don't want in one > location. [...] > At present I have these two supfiles: > > This puts the collection in the https section of the website: less > ~/phpAdsAdmin-supfile *default host=localhost *default > base=/home/freebsddiary/admin *default release=cvs tag=. *default delete > use-rel-suffix *default umask=007 *default preserve fbsd-phpAds > > This puts the collection in the http section of the website: $ less > ~/phpAds-supfile *default host=localhost *default base=/home/freebsddiary > *default release=cvs tag=. *default delete use-rel-suffix *default > umask=007 *default preserve fbsd-phpAds > > Normally a refuse file would go into /home/freebsddiary/sup/ where > col is the name of the collection (in this case it's fbsd-phpAds). With > the above setup I can have only one refuse file. I need two. Simply use different "base" directories in the two supfiles. John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chgyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 11:25:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from juno.com (ntserver.sosuo.cz [193.179.195.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 156A837B407; Sun, 5 May 2002 11:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown (HELO rly-yk04.mx.aol.com) (74.9.38.143) by mx.rootsystems.net with QMQP; 03 Jan 2000 12:11:40 -0500 Reply-To: Message-ID: <023b46e82d4c$2821b8b1$1ba31be2@wdtulj> From: To: Cc: , , Subject: Would You Like To Look & Feel 10-20 Years Younger?? 3237l4 Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 11:02:32 -0400 MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_16C07C6E.A3114E54" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_16C07C6E.A3114E54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 IFdvdWxkIFlvdSBMaWtlIFRvIExvb2sgJiBGZWVsIDEwLTIwIFllYXJzIFlv dW5nZXI/Pw0KDQpXb3VsZCB5b3UgbGlrZSB0byBpbmNyZWFzZSBNdXNjbGUg U3RyZW5ndGggYnkgODglICYNCnJlZHVjZSBCb2R5IEZhdCBieSA3MiUNCi0g LS1XSVRIT1VUIEVYRVJDSVNFIT8hDQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dCBpbmNyZWFzaW5n IGVuZXJneSBsZXZlbHMgYnkgODQlID8NCk9yIEluY3JlYXNpbmcgU2V4dWFs IFBvdGVuY3kgJiBGcmVxdWVuY3kgYnkgNzUlID8NCg0KQUxMIE9GIFRISVMg SVMgTk9XIFBPU1NJQkxFOiBXZSBvZmZlciB0aGUgTW9zdCBQb3RlbnQNCk9y YWwgR0ggRm9ybXVsYSBhdmFpbGFibGUtLWJhY2tlZCB1cCBieSA3IHllYXJz IG9mIHJlc2VhcmNoDQogLS10byBoZWxwIHlvdSBhY2hpZXZlIGFsbCB0aGlz ICYgbW9yZSENCiANClNUQVJUIFJFVkVSU0lORyBUSEUgQUdJTkcgUFJPQ0VT UyBUT0RBWSENCg0KSW4gdGhvdXNhbmRzIG9mIGNsaW5pY2FsIHN0dWRpZXMg KHdpdGggbm8gc2lkZQ0KZWZmZWN0cyksIEdIIGhhcyBiZWVuIHNob3duDQog dG8gYWNjb21wbGlzaCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nOg0KDQogKiBSZWR1Y2UgYm9k eSBmYXQgJiBidWlsZCBsZWFuIG11c2NsZSB3aXRob3V0IGV4ZXJjaXNlIQ0K ICogRW5oYW5jZSBzZXh1YWwgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2UNCiAqIFJlbW92ZSB3cmlu a2xlcyBhbmQgY2VsbHVsaXRlDQogKiBMb3dlciBibG9vZCBwcmVzc3VyZSBh bmQgaW1wcm92ZSBjaG9sZXN0ZXJvbCBwcm9maWxlDQogKiBJbXByb3ZlIHNs ZWVwLCB2aXNpb24gYW5kIG1lbW9yeQ0KICogUmVzdG9yZSBoYWlyIGNvbG9y IGFuZCBncm93dGgNCiAqIFN0cmVuZ3RoZW4gdGhlIGltbXVuZSBzeXN0ZW0N CiAqIEluY3JlYXNlIGVuZXJneSBhbmQgY2FyZGlhYyBvdXRwdXQNCiAqIFR1 cm4gYmFjayB5b3VyIGJvZHkncyBiaW9sb2dpY2FsIHRpbWUgY2xvY2sgMTAt MjANCiAgIHllYXJzIGluIDYgbW9udGhzIHVzZSAhIQ0KIA0KIEZvciBtb3Jl IEZSRUUgSU5GT1JNQVRJT04gb3IgdG8gT1JERVIgUFJPRFVDVCwgcGxlYXNl DQogdmlzaXQgb3VyIHdlYiBzaXRlIGJ5IGNsaWNraW5nIG9uIHRoaXMgbnVt YmVyZWQgbGluazoNCiBodHRwOi8vNjYuMTA3LjEwNy42DQogDQogb3IgQ0FM TCBvdXIgMjQgSFIgVm9pY2VtYWlsIHdpdGggeW91ciBuYW1lLCBudW1iZXIg Jg0KIHRoZSBiZXN0IHRpbWVzIGZvciB1cyB0byBjYWxsIHlvdTogKDg4OCkg NjI0LTk4NTINCiBUaGFuayB5b3UhDQogDQogV2hvbGVzYWxlIElucXVpcmll cyBhcmUgYWxzbyBXRUxDT01FIChXZSBhcmUgbm90IE1MTSkuDQogDQoNCnRv IGJlIHJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSBvdXIgc3Vic2NyaWJlciBsaXN0IG1haWx0bzpy ZW1tZTYyOThAeWFob28uY29tP3N1YmplY3Q9cmVtb3ZlIA0KIHRoYW5rIHlv dQ0KDQoNCjY1MzRhcVp2MS0xMDF4SURsMDEzOVJvalcwLTYwMWp6VlU1Mjc1 V01WajQtNjg4T0xsNDYNCg== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 11:47:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from utility.clubscholarship.com (utility.clubscholarship.com [198.78.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBD737B407 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 11:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by utility.clubscholarship.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g45IibO67298 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 11:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@utility.clubscholarship.com) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 11:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Thomas To: Subject: what would cause a server to behave this way ? Message-ID: <20020505113831.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We have a FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE server, it is a SMP system, and four days ago the following happened: - console became unresponsive - caps lock key no longer toggled the caps lock button - you _could_ still ping the server - you could still establish connections to running services, but NONE of those services would actually talk to you. They would just establish connection and then sit there. Here is an example, trying to ssh into the machine: # ssh -v joe@example.com SSH Version OpenSSH-2.1, protocol versions 1.5/2.0. Compiled with SSL (0x0090581f). debug: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug: ssh_connect: getuid 0 geteuid 0 anon 0 debug: Connecting to example.com [1.2.3.4] port 22. debug: Allocated local port 890. debug: Connection established. and that is as far as it would go - just sat there forever. Same is true with telneting to port 25 or port 110 or 53 - you would establish a connection, but you would get no response or output from the server. We eventually just had to power cycle. --- So anyway, we are confused - we could still ping it, we could see that processes (sshd server, mail server, etc.) were still running, and it even looks like cron jobs continued to run - however, from the console it looked like a classic hard lock (no caps light LED toggle). This is a fairly heavily loaded system - in `top` idle CPU usually hovers around 60%. But we have never had any trouble in the past... any comments/suggestions appreciated. --PT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 12:12: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lsmail3.vertcoms.com (lsmail3.vertcoms.com [65.118.67.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08DE37B400 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 12:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from listserv (65.118.67.242) by lsmail3.vertcoms.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <12.0002C309@lsmail3.vertcoms.com>; 5 May 2002 14:10:50 -0400 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:01:41 -0400 From: Special Deals Subject: 2 for 1 & FREE Inkjet Cartridges To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN" Message-Id: <20020505191156.F08DE37B400@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Stop paying high prices for your Inkjet, Fax, Copy and Laser Toner Cartridges. As seen on YAHOO!, Rush Limbaugh and Google. PriceSmart USA can now offer you incredible savings of 30-80% off every cartridge we carry. FREE Black Inkjet cartridges for your printer while supplies last! FREE Shipping. No Minimum required! These offers and prices change weekly. Look at these incredible deals: Twin Packs for HP...$39. Get 3 Black, 3 Color 6-Packs for Epson only $49., 6-Packs for Canon just $29. We also carry Lexmark, Compaq, Apple, Sharp, Panasonic, Xerox & more...Hurry! Bonus! Get a FREE 50 Minute Phone Card just for stopping by! Click on the link below to start saving or copy & paste into your browser: http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=517.158233684&t=1 Happy Shopping, PriceSmart USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing! This message is sent to subscribers ONLY. The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To unsubscribe please click the link below http://optweb1.optmails.com/cpa/remove.jsp?email=freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org or Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@vertcoms.com Or you may mail us at: PO BOX 810052 Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278 --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/html Content-Disposition: inline;

Stop paying high prices for your Inkjet, Fax, Copy and Laser Toner Cartridges. As seen on YAHOO!and Google. PriceSmart USA can now offer you incredible savings of 30-80% off every cartridge we carry.


FREE Black Inkjet cartridges for your printer while supplies last!

FREE Shipping. No Minimum required! These offers and prices change weekly.

Look at these incredible deals: Twin Packs for HP...$39. 3 Black, 3 Color 6-Packs for Epson $49., 6-Packs for Canon just $29. We also carry Lexmark, Compaq, Apple, Sharp, Panasonic, Xerox & more...Hurry!

Bonus! Get a FREE 50 Minute Phone Card just for stopping by!
Click Here to start Saving!

(NOTE: If you cannot link from above, copy and paste the following URL to your browser.)
http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=517.158233684&t=1



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing!
This message is sent to subscribers ONLY.

The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org

To unsubscribe please click here.
or
Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@vertcoms.com Or you may mail us at:
PO BOX 810052
Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278
--B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 12:17:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webjockey.net (mail.webjockey.net [208.141.46.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADB237B406 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stormspe.outloud.org (ISSA.cm.gscyclone.com [24.206.5.44]) by mail.webjockey.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g45JHEMN078218; Sun, 5 May 2002 15:17:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gary@outloud.org) Message-Id: <5.1.1.2.2.20020505151528.02f8c798@208.141.46.254> X-Sender: ancient@208.141.46.3 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1.3 (Beta) Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 15:17:46 -0400 To: Patrick Thomas From: Gary Stanley Subject: Re: what would cause a server to behave this way ? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020505113831.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had that EXACT problem. I do not know the cause. 1.) Email Server 2.) Qpopper, Sendmail, the normal crap for a email server ;-) 3.) 2 times a day, or more, the server would be unresponsive. Only solution I found, was a hard reboot. I can -not- track this problem down, after going crazy over it, I moved my lusers back over to my 4.2-STABLE machine. At 11:44 AM 5/5/2002 -0700, you wrote: >We have a FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE server, it is a SMP system, and four days >ago the following happened: > >- console became unresponsive - caps lock key no longer toggled the caps >lock button > >- you _could_ still ping the server > >- you could still establish connections to running services, but NONE of >those services would actually talk to you. They would just establish >connection and then sit there. > >Here is an example, trying to ssh into the machine: > ># ssh -v joe@example.com >SSH Version OpenSSH-2.1, protocol versions 1.5/2.0. >Compiled with SSL (0x0090581f). >debug: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config >debug: ssh_connect: getuid 0 geteuid 0 anon 0 >debug: Connecting to example.com [1.2.3.4] port 22. >debug: Allocated local port 890. >debug: Connection established. > > >and that is as far as it would go - just sat there forever. Same is >true with telneting to port 25 or port 110 or 53 - you would establish a >connection, but you would get no response or output from the server. > >We eventually just had to power cycle. > >--- > >So anyway, we are confused - we could still ping it, we could see that >processes (sshd server, mail server, etc.) were still running, and it even >looks like cron jobs continued to run - however, from the console it >looked like a classic hard lock (no caps light LED toggle). > >This is a fairly heavily loaded system - in `top` idle CPU usually hovers >around 60%. But we have never had any trouble in the past... > >any comments/suggestions appreciated. > >--PT > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 13:34:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA4F37B400; Sun, 5 May 2002 13:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yahoo.com ([64.173.9.201]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVN00A2ZNPZ4F@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net>; Sun, 05 May 2002 13:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:37:10 -0700 From: Chair of 3G02/Globecom03/VTC03 Subject: 3Gwireless'2002 & 4G Mobile Forum Kickoff Message-id: <3CD597F6.A3A4A094@yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear colleagues: The important 3Gwireless'2002 and 4Gmobile Forum kickoff are just weeks to go. To get involved in the intensive technical discussions and strategies on 3G/4G, please reserve your seat right now at: http://wirelesscongress.com or http://delson.org/wc. Welcome on board and secure your leadership in this emerging wireless communication. Thank you. Office of Chairman 3G02/WWC02 http://wirelesscongress.com PS: Limited number of conference records are freely available to government agencies, public library and wireless authorities. Contact the conference for details. [Sorry for multiple copies of this message. This is only one-time transmission for technical info only. Complete removal is automatic. Thanks for your support for the promotion of education and research.] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 16:34:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from utility.clubscholarship.com (utility.clubscholarship.com [198.78.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4734637B406 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 16:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by utility.clubscholarship.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g45NVa479180 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 16:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@utility.clubscholarship.com) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:31:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Thomas To: Subject: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? Message-ID: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, based on a previous thread, it looks like I have a server whose userland halted, essentially, but the kernel continued running. As evidenced by: - you can still ping the server just fine - you can still connect to running services just fine - if you ssh to it, `ssh -v` (verbose) claims a connection is established, but the server doesn't respond in any way over that connection. Further, you can telnet to POP or IMAP or HTTP ports, and get a connection, but you can't get any response. - cron does NOT run while the server is in this state - no jobs run - no response from the console - caps lock does NOT toggle the LED So, as was suggested in the previous thread, it looks like my kernel is still running, but the userland has halted. There are no log entries that give any clue as to why this happened last week. 1. from a theoretical standpoint, how would this happen ? 2. Is there any way to watchdog for it and escape from it before the userland completely crashes ? 3. any previous/old problems that would cause this behavior ? It is a FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE system, and it is SMP - fairly heavily loaded (averages 60% CPU idle in `top` output). thanks, PT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 16:47:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E33F37B403 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jjirsa@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g45Nl1P23361; Sun, 5 May 2002 16:47:01 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Jirsa To: Gary Stanley Cc: Patrick Thomas , Subject: Re: what would cause a server to behave this way ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.2.2.20020505151528.02f8c798@208.141.46.254> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 May 2002, Gary Stanley wrote: > I had that EXACT problem. I do not know the cause. > > 1.) Email Server > 2.) Qpopper, Sendmail, the normal crap for a email server ;-) > 3.) 2 times a day, or more, the server would be unresponsive. > > Only solution I found, was a hard reboot. I can -not- track this problem > down, after going crazy over it, I moved my lusers back over to my > 4.2-STABLE machine. > I've had the same situation. The only reason I never tried to track it down is that it only happened on an SMP box with flaky hardware (locks during large compiles - yet runs fine during large FTP/SCP transfers and cpu benchmarks). The last time this occured the box was 80% idle, four users logged in, and one popping (I know this because one of the windows I had open was running top) - everything stopped responding, but the connections stayed active and the syslog kept logging events until powercycled (oddly enough, the one user was popping often enough that the tcp connection seems to have never completely closed... her logins appear in the logs for 20 minutes after the rest of us were sure the box had completely frozen)... - Jeff ============== Jeff Jirsa jjirsa@hmc.edu HMC Unix Admin ============== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 17: 2:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from patrocles.silby.com (d182.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.136.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38E737B401 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 17:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patrocles.silby.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by patrocles.silby.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4603NUm057701; Sun, 5 May 2002 19:03:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: from localhost (silby@localhost) by patrocles.silby.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g4603MhT057698; Sun, 5 May 2002 19:03:23 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: patrocles.silby.com: silby owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 19:03:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Patrick Thomas Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? In-Reply-To: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Message-ID: <20020505184056.J57177-100000@patrocles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 May 2002, Patrick Thomas wrote: > So, based on a previous thread, it looks like I have a server whose > userland halted, essentially, but the kernel continued running. My guess would be that userland apps are not necessarily stopped, but perhaps a few processes are somehow locking out all others. I think the best way to determine what is happening is for you to compile DDB into your kernel, then break into during the next pseudo-lockup incident to see if you can determine what is going on. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 17:38: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B3F37B40A for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 17:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g460c1I77601 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 5 May 2002 20:38:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:38:01 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? Message-ID: <20020506003801.GA77525@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message written on Sun, May 05, 2002 at 04:31:36PM -0700, Patrick Thomas wrote: > So, based on a previous thread, it looks like I have a server whose > userland halted, essentially, but the kernel continued running. I've seen something similar to this before on an Ultrix box. What happened is on a busy machine the swap disk became unplugged. Remember when all drives were external? Anyway, for the most part things in memory (including logged in users at just a shell prompt) continued to work. New telnet / ssh connections hung right after connect (couldn't load login without touching swap, I think), some httpds worked (enough in memory) others hung waiting for a swap page. The system limped long in this strange state for nearly two minutes until the drive was plugged back in, when it went back to swapping and all was well again. No idea if it is related, but the semi-hung machine isn't a new occurrence. :-) -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 18:15:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from slc.edu (weir-01c.slc.edu [207.106.89.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987A237B401 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from anthony@localhost) by slc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g461HWl01478; Sun, 5 May 2002 21:17:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from anthony) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:17:31 -0400 From: Anthony Schneider To: Patrick Thomas Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? Message-ID: <20020505211731.A1386@mail.slc.edu> References: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com>; from root@utility.clubscholarship.com on Sun, May 05, 2002 at 04:31:36PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FWIW, I've very recently had something similar happen to a 4.5-STABLE box. The machine was NOT SMP, and the cause, as far as we know, was that /var had been filled by apache's error_log -- a funky new mod_throttle install with lots of=20 critical_acquire() failed: Permission denied critical_release() failed: Permission denied entries. Now, I assume that this is not because /var was full, but actually because of system V semaphore locking in the mod_throttle code. In mod_throttle-3.1.2... The critical_acquire() code from mod_throttle.c (assuming defined(USE_SYSTEM_V_SERIALIZATION)): struct critical { int id; struct sembuf on; struct sembuf off; }; static int critical_acquire(t_critical *mp) { for (errno =3D 0; semop(mp->id, &mp->on, 1) < 0; ) { if (errno !=3D EINTR) { /*** We really should kill the server here. ***/ perror("critical_acquire() failed"); /* Neither of these calls appear to shutdown the * server and its children; exit(APEXIT_CHILDFATAL), * appears to kill only the parent process. */ ap_start_shutdown(); return -1; } } return 0; } Livelock, maybe? Is there some sort of internal kernel semaphore table whi= ch might be getting filled up or something? I'd also like to find out more ab= out this, but sadly, the machine is a remote one and I can't drop into ddb as suggested... Thanks you all very much. Hope this information is of use. -Anthony. On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 04:31:36PM -0700, Patrick Thomas wrote: >=20 > So, based on a previous thread, it looks like I have a server whose > userland halted, essentially, but the kernel continued running. >=20 > As evidenced by: >=20 > - you can still ping the server just fine > - you can still connect to running services just fine - if you ssh to it, > `ssh -v` (verbose) claims a connection is established, but the server > doesn't respond in any way over that connection. Further, you can telnet > to POP or IMAP or HTTP ports, and get a connection, but you can't get any > response. > - cron does NOT run while the server is in this state - no jobs run > - no response from the console - caps lock does NOT toggle the LED >=20 > So, as was suggested in the previous thread, it looks like my kernel is > still running, but the userland has halted. There are no log entries that > give any clue as to why this happened last week. >=20 >=20 > 1. from a theoretical standpoint, how would this happen ? > 2. Is there any way to watchdog for it and escape from it before the > userland completely crashes ? > 3. any previous/old problems that would cause this behavior ? >=20 >=20 > It is a FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE system, and it is SMP - fairly heavily loaded > (averages 60% CPU idle in `top` output). >=20 > thanks, >=20 > PT >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ----------------------------------------------- PGP key at: http://www.keyserver.net/ http://www.anthonydotcom.com/gpgkey/key.txt Home: http://www.anthonydotcom.com ----------------------------------------------- --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzV2asACgkQ+rDjkNht5F0YaACeM1vJW/faHB3qhHUddINZMnx3 pn8AoIqn2u4B3pCmqFC9Dwi8TV84isUb =wl0Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 18:41: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 603C037B403 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 18:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0632.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.122] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174XUr-0001rw-00; Sun, 05 May 2002 18:41:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD5DF0E.481BBFA4@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 18:40:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anthony Schneider Cc: Patrick Thomas , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? References: <20020505162455.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> <20020505211731.A1386@mail.slc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anthony Schneider wrote: > Livelock, maybe? Is there some sort of internal kernel semaphore table which > might be getting filled up or something? I'd also like to find out more about > this, but sadly, the machine is a remote one and I can't drop into ddb as > suggested... > Thanks you all very much. Hope this information is of use. > -Anthony. More likely, you have run out of some non-renewable resource, such as mbufs, and are in the midst of a deadly embrace deadlock (e.g. as a result of having no mbufs to send responses or receive acknowledgements which would free up mbufs currently held for TCP sessions in progress, etc.). The easies way to see this is to periodically record vmstat -m and netstat -m output to a disk file, and sync, in order to make sure that it's recorded at the time you must reset. Then plot the information over time, up to the point of the failure, and you will likely see the problem in gory detail. If it is something like mbuf starvation, then you should clamp the total number of sockets that are permitted to be open at half the maximum window size divided into the number of mbufs available, minus 10% for a reserve. In general, the "tuning" page is broken; a number of the things it suggests tuning via systctl at run time are not actually tunable at run time, only at boot time. Though at run time, they will remove the top end limits, they will in fact not result in the reservation of sufficient resource to meet those limits, as they would had they been in effect at boot time, instead. In particular, increasing the number of open files permitted by modifying "maxfiles" via sysctl at runtime will not add to the prereserved amount of tcpcb's, inpcb's, or socket structures, all of which could leave you starving for one of these objects, or the mbuf's needed to support them, at runtime. It pays to understand the code before fiddling the numbers. ;^). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 18:58:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org (12-253-177-2.client.attbi.com [12.253.177.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4A637B403 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 18:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.42.2] (peace.hippie.lan [172.22.42.2]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g461wpG47925 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 19:58:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 19:58:55 -0600 Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? From: Ian To: freebsd-hackers Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020505184056.J57177-100000@patrocles.silby.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> So, based on a previous thread, it looks like I have a server whose >> userland halted, essentially, but the kernel continued running. > > My guess would be that userland apps are not necessarily stopped, but > perhaps a few processes are somehow locking out all others. > > I think the best way to determine what is happening is for you to compile > DDB into your kernel, then break into during the next pseudo-lockup > incident to see if you can determine what is going on. > > Mike "Silby" Silbersack > "break into" how? He said the local console keyboard was totally unresponsive and you can't ssh in. If hitting the capslock key doesn't cause the corresponding LED to toggle, doesn't that imply that the keyboard interupts aren't getting handled? It's times like this when it's handy that old Macs had a physical button on front to create an NMI to get you into the debugger. -- Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 19:11: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from patrocles.silby.com (d182.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.136.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E12D37B401 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 19:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patrocles.silby.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by patrocles.silby.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g462BaUm058135; Sun, 5 May 2002 21:11:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: from localhost (silby@localhost) by patrocles.silby.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g462BYDq058132; Sun, 5 May 2002 21:11:35 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: patrocles.silby.com: silby owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:11:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Ian Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020505210947.N57177-100000@patrocles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 5 May 2002, Ian wrote: > "break into" how? He said the local console keyboard was totally > unresponsive and you can't ssh in. If hitting the capslock key doesn't > cause the corresponding LED to toggle, doesn't that imply that the keyboard > interupts aren't getting handled? > > It's times like this when it's handy that old Macs had a physical button on > front to create an NMI to get you into the debugger. > > -- Ian Just because caps lock isn't working doesn't mean that he won't be able to break into DDB w/ ctrl-alt-esc. Remember that getty is a process like any other, and that caps lock is a per-tty property, not a keyboard function. DDB hooks into the keyboard at a lower level, and should still work. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 21:46:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.arnet.com.ar (smtp3.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 45C5F37B40C for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 21:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28837 invoked from network); 6 May 2002 01:50:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.epost.de) (200.45.247.26) by smtp3.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 6 May 2002 01:50:56 -0000 From: "Rebbeca" To: "batxbbjdt@cs.com" Subject: Keep your resolution, get ready for a great summer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.503 (Entity 5.501) Message-Id: <20020506044633.45C5F37B40C@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As seen on NBC, CBS, CNN, and even Oprah! The health discovery that actually reverses aging while burning fat, without dieting or exercise! This proven discovery has even been reported on by the New England Journal of Medicine. Forget aging and dieting forever! And it's Guaranteed! Click here: http://66.231.133.70/sj1/index.html Would you like to lose weight while you sleep! No dieting! No hunger pains! No Cravings! No strenuous exercise! Change your life forever! 100% GUARANTEED! 1.Body Fat Loss 82% improvement. 2.Wrinkle Reduction 61% improvement. 3.Energy Level 84% improvement. 4.Muscle Strength 88% improvement. 5.Sexual Potency 75% improvement. 6.Emotional Stability 67% improvement. 7.Memory 62% improvement. *********************************************************** You are receiving this email as a subscriber to the Opt-In America Mailing List. To unsubscribe from future offers, just click here: mailto:affiliateoptout@btamail.net.cn?Subject=off To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 5 22:42:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from utility.clubscholarship.com (utility.clubscholarship.com [198.78.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CAA137B400 for ; Sun, 5 May 2002 22:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by utility.clubscholarship.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g465deF94782; Sun, 5 May 2002 22:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@utility.clubscholarship.com) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Thomas To: Terry Lambert Cc: Anthony Schneider , Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue ? In-Reply-To: <3CD5DF0E.481BBFA4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020505223641.M86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are NMBCLUSTERS and mbuf determined by 'maxusers' ? I have maxusers=512 ... comments ? When you suggest 'clamp the total number of sockets that are permittedto be open' ... how is this done - is there a sysctl that corresponds to "total number of sockets that are permitted to be open" ? I am also a little confused how this performance issue is solved by _lowering_ a tunable value - all of my problems up to this point (ran out of file descriptors, ran out of ptys, etc.) were solved by increasing them. Thank you for your help, PT On Sun, 5 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > Anthony Schneider wrote: > > Livelock, maybe? Is there some sort of internal kernel semaphore table which > > might be getting filled up or something? I'd also like to find out more about > > this, but sadly, the machine is a remote one and I can't drop into ddb as > > suggested... > > Thanks you all very much. Hope this information is of use. > > -Anthony. > > More likely, you have run out of some non-renewable resource, > such as mbufs, and are in the midst of a deadly embrace deadlock > (e.g. as a result of having no mbufs to send responses or receive > acknowledgements which would free up mbufs currently held for TCP > sessions in progress, etc.). > > The easies way to see this is to periodically record vmstat -m > and netstat -m output to a disk file, and sync, in order to make > sure that it's recorded at the time you must reset. > > Then plot the information over time, up to the point of the failure, > and you will likely see the problem in gory detail. > > If it is something like mbuf starvation, then you should clamp the > total number of sockets that are permitted to be open at half the > maximum window size divided into the number of mbufs available, > minus 10% for a reserve. > > > In general, the "tuning" page is broken; a number of the things it > suggests tuning via systctl at run time are not actually tunable at > run time, only at boot time. Though at run time, they will remove > the top end limits, they will in fact not result in the reservation > of sufficient resource to meet those limits, as they would had they > been in effect at boot time, instead. > > In particular, increasing the number of open files permitted by > modifying "maxfiles" via sysctl at runtime will not add to the > prereserved amount of tcpcb's, inpcb's, or socket structures, > all of which could leave you starving for one of these objects, > or the mbuf's needed to support them, at runtime. > > It pays to understand the code before fiddling the numbers. ;^). > > -- Terry > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 1:34:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4E437B403 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 01:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0126.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.126] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174dx8-0007I2-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 01:34:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD63FFD.BAECB0BF@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 01:34:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Thomas Cc: Anthony Schneider , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue? References: <20020505223641.M86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Patrick Thomas wrote: > Are NMBCLUSTERS and mbuf determined by 'maxusers' ? > > I have maxusers=512 ... comments ? > > When you suggest 'clamp the total number of sockets that are permittedto > be open' ... how is this done - is there a sysctl that corresponds to > "total number of sockets that are permitted to be open" ? It's the number of tcpcb's, which is based on the value of "maxfiles" at boot time, when the zalloci mapping reservation occurs in machdep.c; you are still limited by available physical memory... so if you run out of real physical memory before you run out of pre-reserved page mapping space, things will break. There are different types of limits: soft limits Limits that are enforced by software, but are generally administrative in nature hard limits Limits that are enforced by software, which are administrative, but generally apply to allocations and reservations of resources at boot time, and can not be changed successfully at run time (e.g. you can up "maxfiles", but it will not increase the number of sockets you can have open, because it will not reserve more tcpcb's, etc., the KVA for which is allocated at boot time). hard hard limits Limits which can;t be increased because you lack the physical resources necessary to deal with them (e.g. things which are allocated out of the KVA space can only come from the KVA space, so when you are out of KVA, you are screwed... or backing pages for such allocations, once you run out of physical memory). > I am also a little confused how this performance issue is solved by > _lowering_ a tunable value - all of my problems up to this point (ran out > of file descriptors, ran out of ptys, etc.) were solved by increasing > them. The short answer is that this is not a performance issue, it's a resource starvation issue of some kind (or it's a bug, biut this is much less likely to be the case, or other people would have seen and fixed the problem already). Basically, the symptoms look like a deadly embrace or starvation deadlock of processes for physical memory -- which is why the keyboard freezes on you. It's basically something that happens when you hit a physical memory or KVA overcommit -- so the only thing you can do to avoid it is to not overcommit those things. In some cases, it will happen because you have dirty pages that can not be forced out to swap... because you are out of swap. Adding more swap will work around these cases. Basically, "maxusers" is the worst possible way to tune things, unless you are very careful with knowing how much memory you have committed per user for the load you have. Without knowing exactly what it is you are running out of, it's going to be impossible to tell you what you need more of in order to fix the problem. I suggested "mbufs" because it's a common culprit in this type of lockup. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 1:41:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.airnet.com.au (mail.airnet.com.au [202.174.32.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A51437B408 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 01:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 18631 invoked from network); 6 May 2002 08:40:55 -0000 Received: from ppp411.ar1.adl1.airnet.com.au (HELO bender) (202.174.35.155) by mail.airnet.com.au with SMTP; 6 May 2002 08:40:55 -0000 From: "Martin Minkus" To: , Subject: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:10:24 +0930 Message-ID: <004801c1f4d9$bc4602f0$0200000a@bender> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01C1F529.5D0FDEF0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3621.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C1F529.5D0FDEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, i am getting some wierd stuff with this :) I got a WinXP client running the Orinico Client manager, and am watching what speed the FreeBSD machine is sending me packets at. silence:~# wicontrol -t 5 With that option set, lets play with ifconfig. silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media DS/1Mbps Okay. This sends at 1mbps, as expected. silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media DS/2Mbps Okay. This sends at 2mbps, as expected. silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media DS/5.5Mbps This sends at 11mbps. WTF?! What happened to 5.5? silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media DS/11Mbps This sends at 2mbps. Again, WTF? What happened to 11? Lets set it to: silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media DS/5.5Mbps And now play with wicontrol.... silence:~# wicontrol -t 1 Does it at 1mbit. Well, expected i think. Says 1mbps in the manual page. silence:~# wicontrol -t 2 Does it at 2mbit. Also expected. silence:~# wicontrol -t 4 Does it at 5.5mbit. Manual page says 4mbit (never mind there is no such thing as 4mbit) silence:~# wicontrol -t 5 Does it at 11mbit. Manual page says 6mbit (never mind there is no such thing as 6mbit). silence:~# wicontrol -t 3 Does it at 11mbit. Manual page says it auto rate select high. So, um, why all this insanity? Do i just stick to putting wicontrol -t 5 and ifconfig media DS/5.5mbps? I've tried various orinico cards, and they all exhbit this behaviour... What confuses me is, why make it possible to select speeds via ifconfig AND wicontrol? Why not just one place? Any ideas? Any explanations? Martin. PS. make sure you include me in the TO/CC field as i am not on the mailing list. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C1F529.5D0FDEF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Okay, = i am getting=20 some wierd stuff with this :)
 
I got = a WinXP client=20 running the Orinico Client manager, and am watching what speed the = FreeBSD=20 machine is sending me packets at.
 
silence:~# wicontrol=20 -t 5
 
With = that option=20 set, lets play with ifconfig.
 
silence:~# ifconfig=20 wi0 media DS/1Mbps
 
Okay. This sends at 1mbps, as=20 expected.
 
silence:~# ifconfig=20 wi0 media DS/2Mbps
 
Okay. = This sends at=20 2mbps, as expected.
 
silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media=20 DS/5.5Mbps
 
This = sends at=20 11mbps. WTF?! What happened to 5.5?
 
silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media=20 DS/11Mbps
 
This sends at=20 2mbps. Again, WTF? What happened to 11?
 
 
Lets set it=20 to:
 
silence:~# ifconfig wi0 media=20 DS/5.5Mbps
 
And now play=20 with wicontrol....
 
silence:~#=20 wicontrol -t 1
Does it at=20 1mbit. Well, expected i think. Says 1mbps in the manual=20 page.
 
silence:~#=20 wicontrol -t 2
 
Does it at=20 2mbit. Also expected.

silence:~# wicontrol -t = 4
 
Does it at 5.5mbit. Manual page says 4mbit = (never mind=20 there is no such thing as 4mbit)

silence:~# wicontrol -t = 5
Does = it at 11mbit.=20 Manual page says 6mbit (never mind there is no such thing as=20 6mbit).
 
silence:~# wicontrol -t=20 3
 
Does it at=20 11mbit. Manual page says it auto rate select = high.
 
 
So, um, why=20 all this insanity?
 
Do i just=20 stick to putting wicontrol -t 5 and ifconfig media=20 DS/5.5mbps?
 
I've tried=20 various orinico cards, and they all exhbit this behaviour... What = confuses me=20 is, why make it possible to select speeds via ifconfig AND wicontrol? = Why not=20 just one place?
 
Any ideas? Any=20 explanations?
 
Martin.
 
PS. make sure=20 you include me in the TO/CC field as i am not on the mailing=20 list.
 
 ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C1F529.5D0FDEF0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 1:51:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E7837B401; Mon, 6 May 2002 01:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0126.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.126] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174eDW-0006M5-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 01:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD643F6.33680AA3@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 01:51:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Minkus Cc: freebsd-network@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards References: <004801c1f4d9$bc4602f0$0200000a@bender> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Martin Minkus wrote: > > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: 7bit [ ... data rate controls on the ifconfig or wicontrol command lines tend to result in unexpexted -- frequently 11Mbit rather than lower -- measured speeds ... ] I guess you will have to "suffer" with higher than expected data rates? 8-) 8-). Actually, I think it's because the card you are using has a different set of mappings than the firmware for which the commands were intended, and the driver you are using (wi0) "happens" to work with the card, despite the different firmware. but the "magic" features don't. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 1:56:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.airnet.com.au (mail.airnet.com.au [202.174.32.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7460537B408 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 01:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19566 invoked from network); 6 May 2002 08:56:19 -0000 Received: from ppp411.ar1.adl1.airnet.com.au (HELO bender) (202.174.35.155) by mail.airnet.com.au with SMTP; 6 May 2002 08:56:19 -0000 From: "Martin Minkus" To: "'Terry Lambert'" Cc: , Subject: RE: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:25:46 +0930 Message-ID: <005b01c1f4db$e3563f20$0200000a@bender> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3621.0 In-Reply-To: <3CD643F6.33680AA3@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG But it's a standard WaveLAN/Orinico card, which is what the wi driver is intended for? I never had to worry about any of this when I had the old white/bronze 2mbit wavelan cards, but with silver and gold cards, its been nothing but fun and games.... -----Original Message----- From: Terry Lambert [mailto:tlambert2@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, 6 May 2002 18:21 To: Martin Minkus Cc: freebsd-network@freebsd.org; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards Martin Minkus wrote: > > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: 7bit [ ... data rate controls on the ifconfig or wicontrol command lines tend to result in unexpexted -- frequently 11Mbit rather than lower -- measured speeds ... ] I guess you will have to "suffer" with higher than expected data rates? 8-) 8-). Actually, I think it's because the card you are using has a different set of mappings than the firmware for which the commands were intended, and the driver you are using (wi0) "happens" to work with the card, despite the different firmware. but the "magic" features don't. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 2:27: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from icomag.de (foo.icomag.de [195.227.115.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE32637B401 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 02:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bgd@localhost) by icomag.de (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g469OQA50991 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:24:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bgd@icomag.de) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:24:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Bogdan TARU X-X-Sender: To: Subject: swap_pager_getswapspace: failed Message-ID: <20020506111950.T50903-100000@fw.cgn.icom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, sysctl -a gives me the expected output, plus: kern.msgbuf: swap_pager_getswapspace: failed (1 zillion x) swap_pager_getswapspace: failed <3>pid 23045 (httpd), uid 65534, was killed: out of swap space <118>Feb 21 10:31:45 cvs /kernel: pid 23045 (httpd), uid 65534, was killed: out of swap space swap_pager_getswapspace: failed <3>pid 23042 (httpd), uid 65534, was killed: out of swap space <118>Feb 21 10:31:50 cvs /kernel: pid 23042 (httpd), uid 65534, was killed: out of swap space (1 zillion x) swap_pager_getswapspace: failed Could you tell me why I do get this? We're talking about a very idle machine, used only for development (CVS + postgresql + about 16 httpd apaches -- MaxClients). RAM: 512, Swap 512. I've never seen more than 12MB of swap in use. And, more puzzling: why do I get this in sysctl, and not in a log? Thank you, bogdan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8: 5:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from utility.clubscholarship.com (utility.clubscholarship.com [198.78.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8139437B404 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by utility.clubscholarship.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g46F2dP20540; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@utility.clubscholarship.com) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 08:02:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Thomas To: Terry Lambert Cc: Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue? In-Reply-To: <3CD6416A.9D90BE47@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020506080159.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > No denied requests. It's not mbufs. It must be something else. > How do you feel about this: # vmstat -z ITEM SIZE LIMIT USED FREE REQUESTS PIPE: 160, 0, 702, 522, 236316 SWAPMETA: 160, 509724, 452, 136, 1125 unpcb: 64, 0, 542, 98, 3398824 ripcb: 192, 16424, 0, 42, 3 syncache: 160, 15359, 0, 51, 49824 tcpcb: 544, 16424, 353, 957, 64527 udpcb: 192, 16424, 83, 45, 150821 socket: 192, 16424, 979, 813, 3614256 KNOTE: 64, 0, 1, 127, 51798 DIRHASH: 1024, 0, 1740, 268, 36897 NFSNODE: 352, 0, 0, 0, 0 NFSMOUNT: 544, 0, 0, 0, 0 VNODE: 192, 0, 124417, 27, 124417 NAMEI: 1024, 0, 0, 24, 151244479 VMSPACE: 192, 0, 875, 533, 3797606 PROC: 416, 0, 881, 540, 3797656 DP fakepg: 64, 0, 0, 0, 0 PV ENTRY: 28, 2690954, 601601, 266301, 2806153478 MAP ENTRY: 48, 0, 34223, 4070, 246626232 KMAP ENTRY: 48, 128821, 3795, 514, 369055 MAP: 108, 0, 7, 3, 7 VM OBJECT: 96, 0, 132173, 10127, 97570617 anything interesting ? thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:13:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fox.etel.dn.ua (fox.etel.dn.ua [194.44.16.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB25537B40E for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.etel.dn.ua (gate.etel.dn.ua [194.44.16.39]) by fox.etel.dn.ua (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g43CcOq22546; Fri, 3 May 2002 15:38:24 +0300 (EEST) Received: from Zlz (p1-12.etel.dn.ua [194.44.16.108]) by gate.etel.dn.ua (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g43BdXV03264 for ; Fri, 3 May 2002 14:39:38 +0300 Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:39:38 +0300 Message-Id: <200205031139.g43BdXV03264@gate.etel.dn.ua> From: sysop168@etel.dn.ua To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: A WinXP patch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Message sent from infected by virus and has not been delivered. Viruses: Win32.HLLM.Klez.4 Original message was stored in the archive. To receive original message please contact postmaster: sysop168@etel.dn.ua Archive record: archive.msg.UKqSsY Antivirus service provided by Dr.Web Daemon (www.sald.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:26:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C480937B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FOUg08053 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14639; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061530.LAA14639@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:27: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CCC37B404 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FOpg08130 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14660; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061531.LAA14660@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:27:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF8737B406 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FPIg08288 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14739; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061531.LAA14739@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:27:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1FA37B40E for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FPFg08275 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14732; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061531.LAA14732@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:28:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8390437B401 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FPMg08304 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14748; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061531.LAA14748@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:28:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23CB37B425 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FPog08402 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14773; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061532.LAA14773@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:29:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48BC37B43F for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FQ8g08482 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14796; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061532.LAA14796@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:29:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFAF737B449 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FQwg08697 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14848; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061533.LAA14848@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:30:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B4C37B483 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FR6g08730 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA14858; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061533.LAA14858@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:31:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E6E37B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FT4g09133 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA15032; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061535.LAA15032@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:32:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D697237B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FTvg09308 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA15106; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061536.LAA15106@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:33:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC6B37B409 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FVPg09716 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA15202; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061537.LAA15202@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:36:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E41A37B401 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FY9g10437 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA15376; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061540.LAA15376@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:37:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B3237B408 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FZDg10779 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA15484; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061541.LAA15484@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:38:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD2437B42F for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46FZog10947 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA15504; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061542.LAA15504@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 8:45: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from speedracer.speedtoys.com (mail.speedtoys.com [66.80.10.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0433F37B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (gemohler@localhost) by speedracer.speedtoys.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g46FoSt80984 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoff Mohler X-Sender: gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Enopugh..Re: You've Been Added! In-Reply-To: <200205061542.LAA15504@matterhorn.pinn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Open mailing lists..regardless of how informative they are, are just too annoying to belong to anymore. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 9:14:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from exodus.ait.co.za (exodus.ait.co.za [66.8.26.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 358EE37B404 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 09:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aragon [66.8.86.210] by exodus.ait.co.za (SMTPD32-4.06) id AA7E28E0160; Mon, 06 May 2002 18:14:38 0200 Message-ID: <003b01c1f519$11505770$01000001@aragon> From: "Aragon Gouveia" To: References: <200205061530.LAA14639@matterhorn.pinn.net> Subject: Re: You've Been Added! Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:14:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can this sender be rejected at the MTA? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery" To: Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 5:30 PM Subject: You've Been Added! > This message is to confirm the addition of your > email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the > Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery > Subscribe Me mailing list. > > If you feel you have received this notice in error, > please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery > Subscribe Me mailing list > at our website: > > http://www.kanemarie.com > to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: > > http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:fr eebsd.org > > Thank you, > > Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 9:33:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DCC37B400; Mon, 6 May 2002 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0013.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.13] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174lQT-00024M-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 09:33:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD6B038.3E487B@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:32:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Minkus Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards References: <005b01c1f4db$e3563f20$0200000a@bender> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Martin Minkus wrote: > But it's a standard WaveLAN/Orinico card, which is what the wi driver is > intended for? > > I never had to worry about any of this when I had the old white/bronze > 2mbit wavelan cards, but with silver and gold cards, its been nothing > but fun and games.... I suppose I can understand wanting to control the data rate manually because you can, rather than just being happy it works at the highest data rate... The only thing I could suggest would be to contact the driver author directly and/or sign an NDA and get the programming docs yourself. I'm pretty sure Julian could answer yes/no questions about the card speed setttings. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 9:55:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5DC337B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 09:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0013.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.13] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174llo-0001vi-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 09:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD6B563.ECF6A475@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 09:54:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Thomas Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what causes a userland to stop, but allows kernel to continue? References: <20020506080159.K86733-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Patrick Thomas wrote: > > No denied requests. It's not mbufs. It must be something else. > > How do you feel about this: [ ... ] You have 24M in vnodes, which is surprising for a machine whose job is supposedly postgres. You have another 17M in PV ENTRY values, which is for page mapping. You have 81M in swap metadata; 12M in VM OBJECTS. You don't tell us when you took this sample, relative to the crash time... right after the start? Right before the crash? Do you restart postgres? Does it fork for each client conection? Also, not all memory is accounted to zones, which is why I suggested "vmstat -m", *NOT* "vmstat -z". > anything interesting ? You claim really small numbers for the shared memory segments, but then in another message, you say you are running multiple instances of postgres in jails. We don't have totals on these numbers. You set the physmap tunable that Alfred said would help *unless you run out of memory* ...and are maybe hitting that wall. You aren't telling us the output of "ps -gaxl" at the time of the crash (which is only interesting for the top VSZ/RSS numbers, the WCHAN's, the STAT, and the commands for the large VSZ/RSS). THis really isn't going to be interesting or useful data until you can show us trends. The way to show us trends is to capture the information at fixed intervals (e.g. with a cron job), so that it's there from start to lockup. You should calculate the lockup interval, and pick an update interval based on that. I'm personally not going to look at that amount of data unless you use gnuplot or Excel or some other tool to graph it, so that we can see time on one axis and resource consumption on the other. So don't post it directly to the list. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 10: 2: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4ADA37B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46Gxqe01606 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id NAA02524; Mon, 6 May 2002 13:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061706.NAA02524@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 10: 6:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DEA37B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 10:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0013.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.13] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174lw6-0002Dc-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 10:06:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD6B7E1.F1616DDE@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 10:05:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bogdan TARU Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: swap_pager_getswapspace: failed References: <20020506111950.T50903-100000@fw.cgn.icom> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bogdan TARU wrote: > (1 zillion x) swap_pager_getswapspace: failed > > Could you tell me why I do get this? We're talking about a very idle > machine, used only for development (CVS + postgresql + about 16 httpd > apaches -- MaxClients). RAM: 512, Swap 512. I've never seen more than 12MB > of swap in use. And, more puzzling: why do I get this in sysctl, and not > in a log? See /var/log/messages and/or "dmesg" and/or look at your console. The reason you get these messages is that you are out of kernel virtual address space to provide mappings for swap. 512M + 512M = 1G... how big is your KVA? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 10:11:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925B737B404 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 10:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46H9We03878 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 13:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id NAA02866; Mon, 6 May 2002 13:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061715.NAA02866@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 10:12:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF00737B406 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 10:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46HAie04166 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 13:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id NAA02933; Mon, 6 May 2002 13:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 13:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205061716.NAA02933@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 10:36:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chicago.procergs.com.br (chicago.procergs.com.br [200.198.128.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F1437B403; Mon, 6 May 2002 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [172.28.6.101]) by chicago.procergs.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C8656BE8; Mon, 6 May 2002 14:36:08 -0300 (BRT) Subject: threads + postfix From: O Senhor To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 06 May 2002 14:36:00 -0300 Message-Id: <1020706560.19588.23.camel@ws-tor-004> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everybody, I have one FreeBSD box running postix fine. I have my mailboxes in one NFS server, and the system of this machine are higher. I know (more or less), about user and kernel threads, but i don't understand very well. The FreeBSD implement user threads, and linux: kernel threads. The solaris operating system implement both.In top, my system is too high, allway! I guess that this is by the user threads. Maybe, postfix program, will work better in linux... because the application is "bad" implemented or another problem.... Have somebody, time and patiente to explain me about threads in linux and FreeBSD, and this system in 15 e 25%??? Thanks!! sorry by the english, i hope that somebody understand my mail. []'s To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 11:17:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za (zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5649A37B404; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g46IGDq60379; Mon, 6 May 2002 20:16:13 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from jhay) From: John Hay Message-Id: <200205061816.g46IGDq60379@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards In-Reply-To: <3CD6B038.3E487B@mindspring.com> from Terry Lambert at "May 6, 2002 09:32:56 am" To: tlambert2@mindspring.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 20:16:12 +0200 (SAT) Cc: diskiller@diskiller.net (Martin Minkus), freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Martin Minkus wrote: > > But it's a standard WaveLAN/Orinico card, which is what the wi driver is > > intended for? > > > > I never had to worry about any of this when I had the old white/bronze > > 2mbit wavelan cards, but with silver and gold cards, its been nothing > > but fun and games.... > > I suppose I can understand wanting to control the data rate > manually because you can, rather than just being happy it > works at the highest data rate... > > The only thing I could suggest would be to contact the driver > author directly and/or sign an NDA and get the programming > docs yourself. I'm pretty sure Julian could answer yes/no > questions about the card speed setttings. > Nothing as drastic as that. It is/was a bug and has been fixed: revision 1.100 date: 2002/04/14 23:18:40; author: brooks; state: Exp; lines: +15 -0 Fix tx-rate setting for Lucent cards. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@icomtek.csir.co.za / jhay@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 11:27:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alicia.nttmcl.com (alicia.nttmcl.com [216.69.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC5A37B403; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jj@localhost) by alicia.nttmcl.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id g46IQiv18127; Mon, 6 May 2002 11:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:26:44 -0700 From: JJ Behrens To: Terry Lambert , Dave Hayes , Brooks Davis , Michael Sierchio , Drew Tomlinson , bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: organic documentation Message-ID: <20020506112644.A17574@alicia.nttmcl.com> Mail-Followup-To: JJ Behrens , Terry Lambert , Dave Hayes , Brooks Davis , Michael Sierchio , Drew Tomlinson , bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020503142917.H32803-100000@twirl.bitdance.com> <3CD3273B.1D8F54F4@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3CD3273B.1D8F54F4@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Fri, May 03, 2002 at 05:11:39PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I humbly submit that we should kill this thread :) The original poster's question was easily solved by reading the handbook. Furthermore, we have come to no concensus on improvements to the handbook (e.g. wiki, etc.). Hence, I propose we backburner this topic until a situation arises where something like wiki turns out to be more helpful than just the handbook alone. My $0.02 :) -jj > "R. David Murray" wrote: > > Sorry for dropping in to the middle of a conversation, but this > > comment puzzles me. I fail to see how: > > > > handbook + per-page comments from readers > > > > is *inferior* to: > > > > handbook with no comments > > > > given that the handbook maintainers do not have infinate time > > to polish the handbook, nor infinate knowledge about the > > quirks discoverd by the community. > > 1) Qualification of sources of information. Not every > commenting reader is adding something other than > "First Post! Nyah!". > > 2) Classification varies by individual; to present a > coherent whole, not everyone can be an editor. This > is why published collections of works have editors: > to apply a uniform standard. > > 3) Disinformatoin is not discernable from information. > > Consider a dictionary created via a wiki: > > o Some people could order their entries by length, while > others could order them alphabetically; > > o Is the Schlossen before or after the character "S", > lexically? > > o Who checks the facts? > > o Copyright assignmnet (I guess you could "shrink wrap" > this). > > > > Good comments could be properly classified and incorporated into > > the text as the maintainers have time. > > So you need an editor. I guess you are suggesting that they > would be incorporated into the handbook itself? > > > > On the other hand, I *can* see that it might be a non-trivial > > project to integrate the documentation system with a web > > comment system such that the two do not interfere with each other. > > A web comment system will interfere. It can't help it. -- Users of C++ should consider hanging themselves rather than shooting their legs off--it's best not to use C++ simply as a better C. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 12:14:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.stack.nl (insgate.stack.nl [131.155.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B741437B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 12:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turtle.stack.nl (turtle.stack.nl [2001:610:1108:5010:202:b3ff:fe17:a070]) by skynet.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07269B33; Mon, 6 May 2002 21:15:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: by turtle.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 333) id 3D2B1F0; Mon, 6 May 2002 21:14:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 21:14:50 +0200 From: Marc Olzheim , Marco van de Voort To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: core@freepascal.org, Marc Olzheim , Marco van de Voort Subject: /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_sig.c Message-ID: <20020506211450.A13613@stack.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD turtle.stack.nl 4.5-STABLE FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE X-URL: http://www.stack.nl/~marcolz/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. While working on tha FreePascal FreeBSD port, we found a bug in the kernel source, that has been fixed in -CURRENT... Any reason why pathes 1.137 and 1.148 of kern_sig.c have not yet been committed to RELENG_4 ? Marc & Marco To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 14:58:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92B137B407 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 14:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46LtnT14167 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id SAA24193; Mon, 6 May 2002 18:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205062202.SAA24193@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Removed! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the removal of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org from the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. We're sorry to see you go! If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to add yourself automatically, or click on the link below to automatically re-subscribe yourself: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?a=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 14:58:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A5437B400 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 14:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from matterhorn.pinn.net (matterhorn.pinn.net [198.252.201.8]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g46LtmT14159 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kanedev@localhost) by matterhorn.pinn.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id SAA24189; Mon, 6 May 2002 18:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200205062202.SAA24189@matterhorn.pinn.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Reply-To: Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subject: You've Been Added! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=boundary42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --boundary42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message is to confirm the addition of your email address: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org to the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list. If you feel you have received this notice in error, please visit the Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery Subscribe Me mailing list at our website: http://www.kanemarie.com to remove yourself automatically, or click the link below: http://www.kanemarie.com/cgi-bin/bulkmail/s.pl?r=1&l=1&e=freebsd-hackers=:freebsd.org Thank you, Kane Marie Fine Arts Gallery --boundary42-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 15:13:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A25B37B406 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 15:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CC126AE163; Mon, 6 May 2002 15:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 15:13:46 -0700 From: Paul Saab To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: swap_pager_getswapspace: failed Message-ID: <20020506221346.GA268@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020506111950.T50903-100000@fw.cgn.icom> <3CD6B7E1.F1616DDE@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD6B7E1.F1616DDE@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert (tlambert2@mindspring.com) wrote: > Bogdan TARU wrote: > > (1 zillion x) swap_pager_getswapspace: failed > > > > Could you tell me why I do get this? We're talking about a very idle > > machine, used only for development (CVS + postgresql + about 16 httpd > > apaches -- MaxClients). RAM: 512, Swap 512. I've never seen more than 12MB > > of swap in use. And, more puzzling: why do I get this in sysctl, and not > > in a log? > > See /var/log/messages and/or "dmesg" and/or look at your console. > > The reason you get these messages is that you are out of kernel > virtual address space to provide mappings for swap. > > 512M + 512M = 1G... how big is your KVA? What are you smoking? The machine is out of swap space, not KVA. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 15:40:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CED4437B401 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 15:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 6 May 2002 23:40:03 +0100 (BST) To: Marc Olzheim , Marco van de Voort Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, core@freepascal.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_sig.c In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 06 May 2002 21:14:50 +0200." <20020506211450.A13613@stack.nl> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:40:02 +0100 From: Ian Dowse Message-ID: <200205062340.aa94052@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020506211450.A13613@stack.nl>, Marc Olzheim writes:, Marco van de Voort writes: >While working on tha FreePascal FreeBSD port, we found a bug in the >kernel source, that has been fixed in -CURRENT... >Any reason why pathes 1.137 and 1.148 of kern_sig.c have not yet been >committed to RELENG_4 ? Are these really the revisions you mean? 1.137 is completely harmless, and 1.48 is limited to the case where you define the undocumented option "COMPAT_SUNOS". Ian REV:1.148 kern_sig.c 2002/02/15 03:54:01 bde Fixed a typo in rev.1.65 that gave a reference to a nonexistent variable. This was not detected by LINT because LINT is missing COMPAT_SUNOS. REV:1.137 kern_sig.c 2001/10/07 16:11:37 iedowse Fix a typo in do_sigaction() where sa_sigaction and sa_handler were confused. Since sa_sigaction and sa_handler alias each other in a union, the bug was completely harmless. This had been fixed as part of the SIGCHLD changes in revision 1.125, but it was reverted when they were backed out in revision 1.126. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 17:30:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.airnet.com.au (mail.airnet.com.au [202.174.32.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6044237B407 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25700 invoked from network); 7 May 2002 00:30:27 -0000 Received: from ppp126.ar1.adl1.airnet.com.au (HELO bender) (202.174.34.126) by mail.airnet.com.au with SMTP; 7 May 2002 00:30:27 -0000 From: "Martin Minkus" To: "'Terry Lambert'" Cc: , Subject: RE: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:59:59 +0930 Message-ID: <006501c1f55e$623dc1f0$0200000a@bender> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3621.0 In-Reply-To: <3CD6B038.3E487B@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > But it's a standard WaveLAN/Orinico card, which is what the > wi driver > > is intended for? > > > > I never had to worry about any of this when I had the old > white/bronze > > 2mbit wavelan cards, but with silver and gold cards, its > been nothing > > but fun and games.... > > I suppose I can understand wanting to control the data rate > manually because you can, rather than just being happy it > works at the highest data rate... > > The only thing I could suggest would be to contact the driver > author directly and/or sign an NDA and get the programming > docs yourself. I'm pretty sure Julian could answer yes/no > questions about the card speed setttings. > > -- Terry Actually, the reason I wanted to control the data rate was so I could force it to run at 11mbit. I put the 11mbit card in, and it would still only run at 2mbit! I was unhappy I had faster cards, but they still wouldn't work beyond the 2mbit of the old ones I had. That's what got me playing with all these options... Windows XP on my laptop would say the speed its communicating at; but that's actually the speed XP on the laptop is trasmitting at, not receiving. Installing the Orinico client manager, I could see the packets my laptop was sending to the FreeBSD host (100% at 11mbit), and the packets the FreeBSD host was sending back to the laptop (100% at 2mbit). Playing with those options changed what speed it would transmit to me. Oh well. At least I found the magic options that needed to be set to make the card work at 11mbit. Oh, and btw. Leaving it on auto (wicontrol -t 3) it would actually drop from 11mbit to 5.5mbit as the quality dropped off when I was further out of range. So at least auto works too :) Perhaps when I have some spare time I can go look into the wi driver. And perhaps your right, firmware changes on the orinoco cards are the cause of this; I have flashed mine to 8.1 (or whatever the latest firmware is, 8.something). My white wavelan cards were originally firmware 1.0 when I got them :) Martin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 17:33:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.airnet.com.au (mail.airnet.com.au [202.174.32.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF18937B403 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25975 invoked from network); 7 May 2002 00:32:50 -0000 Received: from ppp126.ar1.adl1.airnet.com.au (HELO bender) (202.174.34.126) by mail.airnet.com.au with SMTP; 7 May 2002 00:32:50 -0000 From: "Martin Minkus" To: "'John Hay'" , "'Terry Lambert'" Cc: , Subject: RE: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:01:53 +0930 Message-ID: <006601c1f55e$b74c81e0$0200000a@bender> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3621.0 In-Reply-To: <200205061816.g46IGDq60379@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Martin Minkus wrote: > > > But it's a standard WaveLAN/Orinico card, which is what the wi > > > driver is intended for? > > > > > > I never had to worry about any of this when I had the old > > > white/bronze 2mbit wavelan cards, but with silver and gold cards, > > > its been nothing but fun and games.... > > > > I suppose I can understand wanting to control the data rate > manually > > because you can, rather than just being happy it works at > the highest > > data rate... > > > > The only thing I could suggest would be to contact the > driver author > > directly and/or sign an NDA and get the programming docs yourself. > > I'm pretty sure Julian could answer yes/no questions about the card > > speed setttings. > > > > Nothing as drastic as that. It is/was a bug and has been fixed: > > revision 1.100 > date: 2002/04/14 23:18:40; author: brooks; state: Exp; > lines: +15 -0 Fix tx-rate setting for Lucent cards. Oh, okay. silence:~> uname -a FreeBSD silence.diskiller.net 4.5-STABLE FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #8: Fri Apr 5 21:43:06 CST 2002 diskiller@silence.diskiller.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/SILENCE i386 silence:~> April 5. So if I cvsup and make world/build a new kernel, I should have that fix then :) Thanks, Martin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 17:44:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web14803.mail.yahoo.com (web14803.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E77B37B403 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020507004411.95465.qmail@web14803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.112.24.26] by web14803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 01:44:11 BST Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 01:44:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?andrew=20mejia?= To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 17:54: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web14805.mail.yahoo.com (web14805.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9824C37B401 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020507005357.40983.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.112.24.26] by web14805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 01:53:57 BST Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 01:53:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?andrew=20mejia?= Subject: Re: netatalk - sharing UNIX to Mac clients To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020503132328.00c92260@gid.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --- Bob Bishop wrote: > Hi, > > At 08:37 03/05/02 +0100, andrew mejia wrote: > >anyone ever configure/install/use netatalk on their > >BSD/Solaris machines? > > We run netatalk on both FreeBSD 4.x and Solaris 8. > By and large it 'just > works'. Build with gcc 2.95 (not 3.x) to avoid > problems on Solaris. [andrew]$ Bob, thanks for your reply. i do appreciate your input. Unfortunately, Alfred Perlstein, whoever he is, says the following: 1) This doesn't belong on -hackers. [andrew]$ what does it belong on? (ok, -questions.) 2) Don't attempt to start a new thread by replying to an old message unless you know to obliterate the In- Reply-To header. [andrew]$ ok. 3) This is a FreeBSD list, please don't solicit advice for other operating systems on it. [andrew]$ hmmm... i see, we can't learn anything from users of other OS's. Alfred, did you notice that many users of this list cite 'Linux' in their responses? 3) Please try -questions for your freebsd specific questions. [andrew]$ ok. i'm outta here. [andrew]$ BTW, your attitude ever so *SLIGHTLY* reminds me of the largely pretentious and cryptic LINUX community. let's not all get too big for our britches, eh? > > -- > Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 > rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of > the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 17:55:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.stack.nl (vaak.stack.nl [131.155.140.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD31237B404 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 17:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toad.stack.nl (toad.stack.nl [2001:610:1108:5010:202:b3ff:fe17:9e1a]) by mailhost.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84CB43D828; Tue, 7 May 2002 02:55:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by toad.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 333) id 0001D9695; Tue, 7 May 2002 02:55:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 02:55:16 +0200 From: Marc Olzheim To: Ian Dowse Cc: Marc Olzheim , Marco van de Voort , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, core@freepascal.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_sig.c Message-ID: <20020507025516.A56898@stack.nl> References: <20020506211450.A13613@stack.nl> <200205062340.aa94052@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200205062340.aa94052@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>; from iedowse@maths.tcd.ie on Mon, May 06, 2002 at 11:40:02PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD toad.stack.nl 4.5-STABLE FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE X-URL: http://www.stack.nl/~marcolz/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are these really the revisions you mean? 1.137 is completely harmless, > and 1.48 is limited to the case where you define the undocumented > option "COMPAT_SUNOS". I just ran in to 1.148 and 1.137 seemed to do some harm, but didn't; in C it just works out fine, because of the union... *bwerk*... Anyway, it should be fixed, I guess. Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 18:10:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1A137B403 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 18:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id B368FAE165; Mon, 6 May 2002 18:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:10:44 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: andrew mejia Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: netatalk - sharing UNIX to Mac clients Message-ID: <20020507011044.GI36741@elvis.mu.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020503132328.00c92260@gid.co.uk> <20020507005357.40983.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020507005357.40983.qmail@web14805.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * andrew mejia [020506 17:54] wrote: > > [andrew]$ BTW, your attitude ever so *SLIGHTLY* > reminds > me of the largely pretentious and cryptic LINUX > community. let's not all get too big for our > britches, > eh? Your attitude is pretty rotten as well, quit whining, learn to use the mailing lists properly, learn to properly respond to email and lastly shut up. What I tell you to do I tell you for your own good so that you'll look less like a clueless schmuck in the future. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 18:38:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DBF037B404; Mon, 6 May 2002 18:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g471cVN03993; Mon, 6 May 2002 19:38:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g471cSr34028; Mon, 6 May 2002 19:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:38:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020506.193814.71562007.imp@village.org> To: diskiller@diskiller.net Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <005b01c1f4db$e3563f20$0200000a@bender> References: <3CD643F6.33680AA3@mindspring.com> <005b01c1f4db$e3563f20$0200000a@bender> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <005b01c1f4db$e3563f20$0200000a@bender> "Martin Minkus" writes: : But it's a standard WaveLAN/Orinico card, which is what the wi driver is : intended for? : : I never had to worry about any of this when I had the old white/bronze : 2mbit wavelan cards, but with silver and gold cards, its been nothing : but fun and games.... Yea. Terry is wrong here. Ignore what he says, for he knowest not what he talkest about. The wi driver might be getting some of them wrong, but it is impossible to say because you didn't include the version you were using (there was a bug releated to this fixed in the not too distant past). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 19:11:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722FB37B407 for ; Mon, 6 May 2002 19:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0679.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.169] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174uRu-0006de-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 19:11:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD73796.365A3440@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:10:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Saab Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: swap_pager_getswapspace: failed References: <20020506111950.T50903-100000@fw.cgn.icom> <3CD6B7E1.F1616DDE@mindspring.com> <20020506221346.GA268@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul Saab wrote: > Terry Lambert (tlambert2@mindspring.com) wrote: > > Bogdan TARU wrote: > > > (1 zillion x) swap_pager_getswapspace: failed > > > > > > Could you tell me why I do get this? We're talking about a very idle > > > machine, used only for development (CVS + postgresql + about 16 httpd > > > apaches -- MaxClients). RAM: 512, Swap 512. I've never seen more than 12MB > > > of swap in use. And, more puzzling: why do I get this in sysctl, and not > > > in a log? > > > > See /var/log/messages and/or "dmesg" and/or look at your console. > > > > The reason you get these messages is that you are out of kernel > > virtual address space to provide mappings for swap. > > > > 512M + 512M = 1G... how big is your KVA? > > What are you smoking? The machine is out of swap space, not KVA. He's seeing "a zillion of them". See the swp_pager_getswapspace()/swp_sizecheck() interaction ("swap_pager_full = 2"/"swap_pager_full = 0"). Then look in kern/subr_blist.c at blist_alloc(), at where SWAPBLK_NONE can be returned. The toggling necessary for "a zillion" can only happen if he's bouncing between above the high water mark and below the low water mark on amount used. I did neglect one case... where he would also be getting "a zillion"... but he'd also be getting killed processes out the ying-yang, in that case, and he didn't report any (maybe he just omitted to give us the information, though). Processes starting and dying would account for the bounce. But... he also says he never sees more than 12M of swap in use. Personally, I think he might be using up the available KVA space by fragging it with tons of shared memory segments. We still have not seen the output of "ipcs -a" and "ipcs -M" after boot and right before the crash. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 19:20:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521D537B406; Mon, 6 May 2002 19:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0679.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.169] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174uaB-0001hu-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 19:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD739B6.BC412E4F@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 19:19:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Minkus Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards References: <006501c1f55e$623dc1f0$0200000a@bender> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Martin Minkus wrote: > Perhaps when I have some spare time I can go look into the wi driver. > And perhaps your right, firmware changes on the orinoco cards are the > cause of this; I have flashed mine to 8.1 (or whatever the latest > firmware is, 8.something). My white wavelan cards were originally > firmware 1.0 when I got them :) Actually, it appears I'm wrong, and you just haven't read the message yet. Apparently there have been some commits which fix your problem for you (though they may be limited to -current). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 20:30:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE9A37B403; Mon, 6 May 2002 20:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g473U5N04506; Mon, 6 May 2002 21:30:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g473U3r34599; Mon, 6 May 2002 21:30:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 21:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020506.212945.93008254.imp@village.org> To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: diskiller@diskiller.net, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <3CD739B6.BC412E4F@mindspring.com> References: <006501c1f55e$623dc1f0$0200000a@bender> <3CD739B6.BC412E4F@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <3CD739B6.BC412E4F@mindspring.com> Terry Lambert writes: : Martin Minkus wrote: : > Perhaps when I have some spare time I can go look into the wi driver. : > And perhaps your right, firmware changes on the orinoco cards are the : > cause of this; I have flashed mine to 8.1 (or whatever the latest : > firmware is, 8.something). My white wavelan cards were originally : > firmware 1.0 when I got them :) : : : Actually, it appears I'm wrong, and you just haven't read the : message yet. Apparently there have been some commits which : fix your problem for you (though they may be limited to -current). Nope. They have been MFC'd as of April 30th or so. The entire wi driver was back merged at that date. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 6 23:34:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD1F37B403; Mon, 6 May 2002 23:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0102.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.102] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 174yXq-0002OY-00; Mon, 06 May 2002 23:33:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD77534.4975CB62@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 23:33:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: diskiller@diskiller.net, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 802.11: WaveLAN/Orinoco Cards References: <006501c1f55e$623dc1f0$0200000a@bender> <3CD739B6.BC412E4F@mindspring.com> <20020506.212945.93008254.imp@village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > : Actually, it appears I'm wrong, and you just haven't read the > : message yet. Apparently there have been some commits which > : fix your problem for you (though they may be limited to -current). > > Nope. They have been MFC'd as of April 30th or so. The entire wi > driver was back merged at that date. THanks for the clarification... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 1: 1:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fox.etel.dn.ua (fox.etel.dn.ua [194.44.16.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675A437B403 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 01:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.etel.dn.ua (gate.etel.dn.ua [194.44.16.39]) by fox.etel.dn.ua (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g46M1cq15972; Tue, 7 May 2002 01:01:38 +0300 (EEST) Received: from Nqmuwd (p1-9.etel.dn.ua [194.44.16.105]) by gate.etel.dn.ua (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g46L35V20298 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 00:03:12 +0300 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 00:03:12 +0300 Message-Id: <200205062103.g46L35V20298@gate.etel.dn.ua> From: sysop168@etel.dn.ua To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Thumbnail page was generated by the evaluation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Message sent from infected by virus and has not been delivered. Viruses: Win32.HLLM.Klez.4 Original message was stored in the archive. To receive original message please contact postmaster: sysop168@etel.dn.ua Archive record: archive.msg.GUWAGj Antivirus service provided by Dr.Web Daemon (www.sald.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 1: 8:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0B337B405 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 01:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g4788Ol14443; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:08:24 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g4788aZ26320; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:08:36 +0200 Message-ID: <3CD78B84.1070307@nentec.de> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:08:36 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aragon Gouveia , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: You've Been Added! References: <200205061530.LAA14639@matterhorn.pinn.net> <003b01c1f519$11505770$01000001@aragon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Aragon Gouveia wrote: >Can this sender be rejected at the MTA? > Better Idea, how about changing MajorDomo to accept mail only from people registered on the list. OK. This would inconvience some people. But in addition to this, as most people are, I am also getting tired of the sex advertisements. Regards Andy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 1:41:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail48.fg.online.no (mail48-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214A337B408 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 01:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from online.no (kunde4141.alfanett.no [195.134.62.117]) by mail48.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26608 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:41:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 10:34:32 +0200 From: Tore Lund X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: You've Been Added! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andy Sporner wrote: > > Aragon Gouveia wrote: > > >Can this sender be rejected at the MTA? > > > > Better Idea, how about changing MajorDomo to accept mail only from people > registered on the list. OK. This would inconvience some people. But in > addition > to this, as most people are, I am also getting tired of the sex > advertisements. The reason for the inconvenience is that the list technology is behind the times. Many other lists - like Yahoo! groups - have options like NOMAIL and neat ways to peruse messages online. With such improvements in place, anyone wanting to post could be a member without having to receive all that mail. Or, one could have a dedicated FreeBSD news server with all the lists on it in the form of newsgroups. (I have a hunch this too would reduce the spam, but I don't know by how much in the long run.) FreeBSD takes pride in being "on the bleeding edge", but it needs to be said that in some ways it is all too pleased with outdated features, like that list server. Writing this as a non-member, -- Tore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 1:47: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from starbug.ugh.net.au (starbug.ugh.net.au [203.31.238.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D254B37B405 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 01:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by starbug.ugh.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D0CDFA804; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:46:59 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by starbug.ugh.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFD2542D; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:46:59 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:46:59 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew To: Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: You've Been Added! In-Reply-To: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> Message-ID: <20020507184544.I67770-100000@starbug.ugh.net.au> X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 7 May 2002, Tore Lund wrote: > The reason for the inconvenience is that the list technology is behind > the times. Many other lists - like Yahoo! groups - have options like > NOMAIL and neat ways to peruse messages online. With such improvements > in place, anyone wanting to post could be a member without having to > receive all that mail. I'm not sure evryone would agree with you on that but either way you do know you can read the list on the web? > Or, one could have a dedicated FreeBSD news server with all the lists on > it in the form of newsgroups. (I have a hunch this too would reduce the > spam, but I don't know by how much in the long run.) ...and annoy those people with only mail access. Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 2: 5:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87BD037B400 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 02:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g4795Sl23972; Tue, 7 May 2002 11:05:28 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g4795dZ28893; Tue, 7 May 2002 11:05:39 +0200 Message-ID: <3CD798E2.3090506@nentec.de> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:05:38 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You've Been Added! References: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tore Lund wrote: >>Better Idea, how about changing MajorDomo to accept mail only from people >>registered on the list. OK. This would inconvience some people. But in >>addition >>to this, as most people are, I am also getting tired of the sex >>advertisements. >> > >The reason for the inconvenience is that the list technology is behind >the times. Many other lists - like Yahoo! groups - have options like >NOMAIL and neat ways to peruse messages online. With such improvements >in place, anyone wanting to post could be a member without having to >receive all that mail. > I am not sure I was understood correctly. I while ago I was a member of an organization called HOSPEX. I think it is long since dead. In order for mail to be passed by the list server you had to be registered. IE: joeblow@spammer.org would not be able to send mail because he was not a member. This doesn't solve the problem 100% because he could simply just register and then spam, but it does make it a little more difficult. The problem seems to be that people get lists of email reflectors (major domo's) and this makes their job easier for them to send their spam. If they are serious users then they won't mind registering, but the average spammer just uses a list and doesn't go to the effort. So the idea of online perusal and even sending mail from a web-based form would also work because it is not an "automatic" method, and thus likely not used by a spammer. This then makes it work good for everybody --even unregistered or mail-only users. Sounds sort of like a feature request--who does these anyways??? Regards Andy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 2:21:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.143.238.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87F3B37B401 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 02:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 62632 invoked by uid 1001); 7 May 2002 19:21:23 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.26 06-May-2002 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Uptime: 118 days, 1:39 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Message-Id: Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:21:22 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Andy Sporner , Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Andy Sporner , Tore Lund Mail-Followup-To: Andy Sporner , Tore Lund Subject: Re: You've Been Added! References: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> <3CD798E2.3090506@nentec.de> In-reply-to: <3CD798E2.3090506@nentec.de> of Tue, 07 May 2002 11:05:38 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andy Sporner wrote irrelevant stuff: | Tore Lund wrote more irrelevant stuff: Please take this debate off the hackers list. It has nothing to do with the list's charter and is therefore unwelcome. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 3:35: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8B637B401 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 03:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g47AYul05838; Tue, 7 May 2002 12:34:56 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g47AZ6Z32525; Tue, 7 May 2002 12:35:06 +0200 Message-ID: <3CD7ADDA.2060206@nentec.de> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 12:35:06 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Sporner , Tore Lund Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You've Been Added! References: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> <3CD798E2.3090506@nentec.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Black wrote: >Andy Sporner wrote irrelevant stuff: > >| Tore Lund wrote more irrelevant stuff: > >Please take this debate off the hackers list. It has nothing to >do with the list's charter and is therefore unwelcome. > >Greg > > I disagree because I am making a suggestion of how to improve this list. Since there seems no other forum to use, I see no other place. If you want to make a constructive comment, suggest an alternative! (Please). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 3:55:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from HAL9000.wox.org (12-232-222-90.client.attbi.com [12.232.222.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A0837B403 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 03:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.wox.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g47Atlx25206; Tue, 7 May 2002 03:55:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 03:55:47 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Andy Sporner Cc: Tore Lund , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You've Been Added! Message-ID: <20020507035547.A25162@HAL9000.wox.org> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Sporner , Tore Lund , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> <3CD798E2.3090506@nentec.de> <3CD7ADDA.2060206@nentec.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD7ADDA.2060206@nentec.de>; from sporner@nentec.de on Tue, May 07, 2002 at 12:35:06PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Andy Sporner : > Greg Black wrote: > > >Andy Sporner wrote irrelevant stuff: > > > >| Tore Lund wrote more irrelevant stuff: > > > >Please take this debate off the hackers list. It has nothing to > >do with the list's charter and is therefore unwelcome. > > > >Greg > > > > > > I disagree because I am making a suggestion of how to improve this list. > Since > there seems no other forum to use, I see no other place. If you want to > make a > constructive comment, suggest an alternative! (Please). There have been several lengthy discussions about this topic already. The amount of SPAM on the lists is manageable, so I think the general consensus is that no radical measures are necessary. In any case, this topic probably belongs on -chat, if anywhere. (FWIW, a newsgroup would be worse than mailing lists, given the number of spambots on Usenet.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 7:37:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lsmail8.oin-1.com (lsmail8.oin-1.com [216.242.142.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA7637B40C for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 07:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpaserv (216.242.142.54) by lsmail8.oin-1.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <23.00000854@lsmail8.oin-1.com>; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:35:11 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:22:57 -0400 From: Special Offer Subject: Get PAID To SHOP and EAT!! To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN" Message-Id: <20020507143719.1BA7637B40C@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline ************************************************ Get PAID to SHOP & Get PAID to EAT!! Click Here NOW: http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=541.158233684&t=1 AOL Members: Click Here! ************************************************ You Can Get Paid $10 to $40 an hour to: - Shop Online! - Eat at Your Favorite Restaurants! - Go To The Greatest Amusement Parks! - Play The Newest Golf Courses! - See The Latest Movie Releases! That's right, you not only get all your purchases for FREE, you get paid for making them, and you can even get reimbursed for related travel expenses!! Start Getting A Paycheck For Shopping And Eating Out Today! Click Here NOW: http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=541.158233684&t=1 AOL Members: Click Here! ************************************************ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing! This message is sent to subscribers ONLY. The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To unsubscribe please click the link below http://optweb1.optmails.com/cpa/remove.jsp?email=freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org or Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@OIN-1.com Or you may mail us at: PO BOX 810052 Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278 --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/html Content-Disposition: inline;
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing!
This message is sent to subscribers ONLY.

The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org

To unsubscribe please click here.
or
Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@OIN-1.com
Or you may mail us at:
PO BOX 810052
Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278
--B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 8:34:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rhodium.cix.co.uk (rhodium.cix.co.uk [194.153.21.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DD737B403; Tue, 7 May 2002 08:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ctek-uk.com (126.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.126]) by rhodium.cix.co.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03626; Tue, 7 May 2002 09:06:07 +0100 (BST) X-Envelope-From: alex@ctek-uk.com Message-Id: <200205070806.JAA03626@rhodium.cix.co.uk> From: "Alex" To: Subject: PC for sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:06:39 +0100 Reply-To: "Alex" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, We have a limited number of IBM Desktop PC's for sale: Pentium 166 MMX, 2.5 Gb Hard Drive, 64 Mb RAM, 3.5" Floppy, 52x CD-Rom drive, 15" SVGA Monitor, Keyboard and Mouse, with Windows 98 and Office XP PRO pre-installed, all for 200. For more info, visit us at www.ctek-uk.com/pc, email us at info@ctek-uk.com or call 0870 742 7816. Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 9:15:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meta.lo-res.org (meta.lo-res.org [195.58.189.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEFF37B401 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chillig.lo-res.org ([62.116.8.4]) by meta.lo-res.org (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g47GFFiC010883 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:15:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from aaron@lo-res.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: aaron To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:14:46 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I am just trying to write a simple IPv6 socket app. after #including I noticed that I have to include BEFORE which struck me as rather strange... Should not .h files include the depending .h files themselves so that all dependencies of type / struct / #define definitions are met automatically? If not this is not what we want then we have the following problem: #include #include works but #include #include does not work. ... hm... wondering if this what we want.... aaron. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 9:20:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1FA37B403 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 09:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g47GKgl25846; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:20:42 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g47GKqZ14654; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:20:52 +0200 Message-ID: <3CD7FEE4.3090709@nentec.de> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 18:20:52 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aaron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG aaron wrote: Hi, Maybe it's just me, but I always include the fundamental .h files first, so usually in this order (more or less): #include #include ... (networking stuff) #include #include So perhaps this is why I never saw this. It is a simple philosophy and so far hasn't caused me any trouble. :-) Not sure how it works in the Windoze environment, but then again... Not interested ;-) Hope this helps... Andy >Hi! > >I am just trying to write a simple IPv6 socket app. >after #including I noticed that I have to include >BEFORE which struck me as rather strange... > >Should not .h files include the depending .h files themselves so that all >dependencies of type / struct / #define definitions are met automatically? > >If not this is not what we want then we have the following problem: > >#include >#include > > works > >but > >#include >#include > >does not work. > >... hm... wondering if this what we want.... > >aaron. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 9:37:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1B637B40B for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0147.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.147] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1757y0-0006or-00; Tue, 07 May 2002 09:37:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 09:37:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aaron Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG aaron wrote: > I am just trying to write a simple IPv6 socket app. > after #including I noticed that I have to include > BEFORE which struck me as rather strange... > > Should not .h files include the depending .h files themselves so that all > dependencies of type / struct / #define definitions are met automatically? Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". The problems with doing this are many, but the main ones are: o Including a file to get something expected into the namespace drags unexpected things into the namespace (perhaps a lot of them). o Compilation times go up geometrically o The programmer is shielded from explicit knowledge of the included files; this is bad, since it's the programmer's job to know these things o The resulting code is not portable to all platforms o Header files that do this are not technically standards compliant, since the standards dictate which header files are needed to access which functions in the API. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 10:37:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meta.lo-res.org (meta.lo-res.org [195.58.189.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B905537B40A for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chillig.lo-res.org ([62.116.8.4]) by meta.lo-res.org (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g47HbmiC011600; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:37:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from aaron@lo-res.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: aaron To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:37:20 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday 07 May 2002 18:37, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". ok, i see.... Thanks for answering. I was under the impression that lots of linux apps rely on promiscuous includes... so i expected them to be there in fbsd just as well.. (but my memory of linux programming times is a bit fainted already). aaron. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 10:44: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.infradead.org (imladris.infradead.org [194.205.184.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75AB537B419 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hch by phoenix.infradead.org with local (Exim 3.35 #5) id 175902-0007qi-00; Tue, 07 May 2002 18:43:42 +0100 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:43:42 +0100 From: Christoph Hellwig To: aaron Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Message-ID: <20020507184342.A29943@infradead.org> References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org>; from aaron@lo-res.org on Tue, May 07, 2002 at 07:37:20PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 07:37:20PM +0200, aaron wrote: > On Tuesday 07 May 2002 18:37, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". > > ok, i see.... > > Thanks for answering. I was under the impression that lots of linux apps rely > on promiscuous includes... so i expected them to be there in fbsd just as > well.. (but my memory of linux programming times is a bit fainted already). This really depends on when you performed linux programming the last time :) The linux libc <= v5 contained a lot of namespace pollution of this kind, the linux libc 6 (glibc2) on the other hand has an exteremly strict namespace (unless you define _GNU_SOURCE :P), which caused many old-time, unportable linux applications to have compile problems. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 10:54:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from utility.clubscholarship.com (utility.clubscholarship.com [198.78.70.175]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9899F37B405; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by utility.clubscholarship.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g47Hpb190318; Tue, 7 May 2002 10:51:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@utility.clubscholarship.com) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:51:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Thomas To: Cc: , Subject: syncookies exploit behavior Message-ID: <20020507104534.T63159-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Two questions regarding the syncookies issue - 1. What kind of crash is it ? I have an issue where my machine has no response at the console, and none of the services work (pop, imap, etc.) HOWEVER you can still ping it, and you can still initiate connections to services - they just dont talk or respond at all - and cron jobs no longer run. Someone suggested that it looks like my userland is frozen, but my kernel is still running. Is that the kind of crash you get when you encounter the syncookies problem ? 2. Is there any way to scour tcpdump on the _affected_ machine to see if syncookies was indeed your problem ? This is sort of two questions - first, will the machine be crashed so fast it won't have time to write tcpdump output to a file for the packet that caused the crash ? and second, if it is possible, what would that tcpdump output look like ? I suspect you can't scour tcpdump for it, since this problem can be caused by legitimate traffic. comments appreciated, PT To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 11:21:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (wi4d22.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.101.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAFB37B401 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 11:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8BAB7B0C5; Tue, 7 May 2002 20:21:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:21:34 +0200 From: Matthias Buelow To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: You've Been Added! Message-ID: <20020507182134.GA72953@reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg> References: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD79198.C8403676@online.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tore Lund writes: >Or, one could have a dedicated FreeBSD news server with all the lists on >it in the form of newsgroups. (I have a hunch this too would reduce the >spam, but I don't know by how much in the long run.) This is an idea I have favoured for a long time, imho mailing lists with hundreds of messages per day are just an abuse of the medium, Usenet is an excellent vehicle for that kind of traffic. All the mailing lists that exist for so many products etc. kinda form an unorganized shadow Usenet that would better be folded into the real one (given that comp.unix.bsd.* does even exist) or use a seperate dedicated newsserver. --mkb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 12: 4: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from camp.321host-it.com (service-66-28-45-3.321host-it.com [66.28.45.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9141A37B400 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 12:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from www@localhost) by camp.321host-it.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g47J6d129449; Tue, 7 May 2002 12:06:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:06:39 -0700 Message-Id: <200205071906.g47J6d129449@camp.321host-it.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: eClickz Subject: New search engine! eClickz.net http: //www.eclickz.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eClickz is a brand new pay-per-click (ppc) search engine where users can find relevant information on any topic conceivable. Features lightning fast search results and an affiliate program where webmasters can earn money by placing a search box on their website. Enjoy ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 12:52:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (revolt.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E3C37B403 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 12:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revolt.poohsticks.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g47JqbB98317; Tue, 7 May 2002 13:52:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Message-Id: <200205071952.g47JqbB98317@revolt.poohsticks.org> To: Matthias Buelow Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You've Been Added! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 May 2002 20:21:34 +0200." <20020507182134.GA72953@reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <98314.1020801157.1@revolt.poohsticks.org> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 13:52:37 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020507182134.GA72953@reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg>, mkb@inform atik.uni-wuerzburg.de writes: >This is an idea I have favoured for a long time, imho mailing lists >with hundreds of messages per day are just an abuse of the medium, >Usenet is an excellent vehicle for that kind of traffic. Usenet was excellent before use amongst drooling mouth-breathers skyrocketed thereby inherently decreasing the signal to noise ration and scaring off the reasonable posters. Now, unmoderated groups are unuseable. >All the mailing lists that exist for so many products etc. kinda >form an unorganized shadow Usenet that would better be folded into >the real one (given that comp.unix.bsd.* does even exist) or use a >seperate dedicated newsserver. A parallel news feed with stricter rules for membership is the only viable solution. -- Home Page For those who do, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 13: 1:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB34937B404 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 13:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id B7E1EAE1C6; Tue, 7 May 2002 13:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:01:48 -0700 From: Bill Fumerola To: Terry Lambert Cc: aaron , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Message-ID: <20020507200148.GD11262@elvis.mu.org> Reply-To: Bill Fumerola References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.5-MUORG-20020423 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 09:37:03AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". by whom? Your search - "promiscuous includes" - did not match any documents.[1] -- - bill fumerola / fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org / billf@mu.org 1. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22promiscuous+includes%22 http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=%22promiscuous+includes%22 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 14:35:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from camp.321host-it.com (service-66-28-45-3.321host-it.com [66.28.45.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DFA37B404 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 14:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from www@localhost) by camp.321host-it.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g47LblV13281; Tue, 7 May 2002 14:37:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:37:47 -0700 Message-Id: <200205072137.g47LblV13281@camp.321host-it.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: eClickz Subject: New search engine! eClickz.net http: //www.eclickz.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eClickz is a brand new pay-per-click (ppc) search engine where users can find relevant information on any topic conceivable. Features lightning fast search results and an affiliate program where webmasters can earn money by placing a search box on their website. Enjoy ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 15:34:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lsmail8.oin-1.com (lsmail8.oin-1.com [216.242.142.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F7637B406 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 15:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpaserv (216.242.142.54) by lsmail8.oin-1.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <54.0000095A@lsmail8.oin-1.com>; Tue, 7 May 2002 16:40:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:33:16 -0400 From: Mother's Day Subject: Dozen Roses & FREE Chocolates ONLY $39.99! To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN" Message-Id: <20020507223404.05F7637B406@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mother's Day is Sunday, May 12. Remember MOM with one dozen magnificent long-stemmed Roses. $39.99 plus guaranteed FedEx overnight delivery Direct from the grower so you get twice the freshness at half the price 7 day freshness guarantee FREE Ghirardelli Chocolate in a heart shaped box Click here to order. http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=539.158233684&t=1 Remember: Proflowers will send a FREE box of Ghirardelli Chocolate with any flower purchase! Click here to view other Proflowers products. http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=539.158233684&t=1 This offer expires at midnight on Friday, May 31, 2002. Quantities are limited so please place your order now. Orders placed for Saturday delivery incur an extra delivery charge. You must order by 3 p.m. Eastern time on Thursday, May 9 for Friday delivery. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing! This message is sent to subscribers ONLY. The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To unsubscribe please click the link below http://optweb1.optmails.com/cpa/remove.jsp?email=freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org or Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@OIN-1.com Or you may mail us at: PO BOX 810052 Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278 --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/html Content-Disposition: inline; Proflowers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing!
This message is sent to subscribers ONLY.

The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org

To unsubscribe please click here.
or
Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@OIN-1.com
Or you may mail us at:
PO BOX 810052
Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278
--B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 18: 1:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jupiter.linuxengine.net (jupiter.linuxengine.net [209.61.188.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C318F37B416 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiterweb.commercevault.com (jupiterweb.commercevault.com [209.61.179.16] (may be forged)) by jupiter.linuxengine.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g4811Lo17572; Tue, 7 May 2002 20:01:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:01:21 -0500 (CDT) From: John Utz X-X-Sender: john@jupiter.linuxengine.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: john@utzweb.net Subject: how does the kernel build process resolve struct defs that arent defined in the compilation unit, declared extern or included in? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi; if /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c has a structure that is an array of struct pnp_cinfo and struct pnp_cinfo is only declared in /usr/src/sys/boot/isapnp.h and struct pnp_cinfo isnt declared extern in /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c and /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c doesnt #include nore does any of the files that pnp.c actually includes, then how could it possibly compile? i have a pnp.o in my build dir and the pnp stuff works in my kernel, so i am kinda lost any insight into how this works, or any pointer to mistakes i may have made in interpreting the facts on my box would be greatly appreciated. tnx! johnu -- John L. Utz III john@utzweb.net Idiocy is the Impulse Function in the Convolution of Life To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 18:39:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web10408.mail.yahoo.com (web10408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B25BE37B406 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020508013918.49934.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.113.218.99] by web10408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 18:39:18 PDT Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:39:18 -0700 (PDT) From: NITIN BAHADUR Subject: tcp socket connecting to itself To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am facing a connect problem which is related to "closed" bug # 10826. Here's what I am doing... My client program is trying to connect to a server (on same machine as client) while my server is down. My server port is > 1024 (say 2000). (the client program doesn't do a bind). If I run my client program in a loop trying to connect to the server, then eventually, the kernel connect code assigns it a local port of 2000 and the "connect succeeds" even when the server is down. Thus I am connected to myself on the same port. Now the bug report 10826 dismisses this as "This is a closed issue. TCP has the property that it will allow "symmetric opens". Read various classics on the topic." I went through the TCP RFC and I think i understand what they mean about symmetric opens. But in my case, my src_ip == destn_ip && src_port == destn_port If this is a valid implementation of TCP and there is nothing wrong in this, then why don't books on network programming mention that after doing a "connect" verify that you are not connected to yourself. Its easy for me to fix my code to check if i am connected to myself. But I want to know if this is correct ?? thanks nitin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 18:46:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5006937B42A for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 24F6A535E; Wed, 8 May 2002 03:46:11 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Andy Sporner Cc: aaron , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD7FEE4.3090709@nentec.de> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 May 2002 03:46:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3CD7FEE4.3090709@nentec.de> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andy Sporner writes: > Maybe it's just me, but I always include the fundamental .h files first, so > usually in this order (more or less): > > #include > #include includes , so you need one *or* the other but not both. Whichever you choose (depending on your needs) should always come first. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 18:47: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F14637B414 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 18:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 0426E535F; Wed, 8 May 2002 03:46:51 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: aaron Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 May 2002 03:46:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG aaron writes: > Should not .h files include the depending .h files themselves so that all > dependencies of type / struct / #define definitions are met automatically? No. If you want Linux, you know where to find it... > ... hm... wondering if this what we want.... Yes. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 19:38:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF2737B408 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kokeb.ambesa.net ([64.172.24.225]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVR00JOGTZXKL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 07 May 2002 19:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kokeb.ambesa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kokeb.ambesa.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g482hqmp076306; Tue, 07 May 2002 19:43:52 -0700 (PDT envelope-from makonnen@pacbell.net) Received: (from mikem@localhost) by kokeb.ambesa.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g482hpmc076305; Tue, 07 May 2002 19:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 20:43:50 -0600 From: Mike Makonnen Subject: Re: how does the kernel build process resolve struct defs that arent defined in the compilation unit, declared extern or included in? In-reply-to: To: John Utz Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <1020825830.50729.14.camel@kokeb.ambesa.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: X-Authentication-warning: kokeb.ambesa.net: mikem set sender to makonnen@pacbell.net using -f Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 19:01, John Utz wrote: > Hi; > > if /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c has a structure that is an array of struct > pnp_cinfo and struct pnp_cinfo is only declared in > /usr/src/sys/boot/isapnp.h and struct pnp_cinfo isnt declared extern in > /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c and /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c doesnt #include > nore does any of the files that pnp.c actually includes, > then how could it possibly compile? i have a pnp.o in my build dir and the > pnp stuff works in my kernel, so i am kinda lost > > any insight into how this works, or any pointer to mistakes i may have > made in interpreting the facts on my box would be greatly appreciated. That declaration is inside an #if 0 block. #if 0 ... #endif The #if will always evaluate to false, so it won't try and compile it. The only reference to it is also #if 0'ed out. Cheers, Mike Makonnen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 19:45: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.valueclick.com (mail.valueclick.com [216.246.96.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6102137B400; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sivka.rdy.com (root@sivka.rdy.com [64.81.70.69]) by mail.valueclick.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g482idA12216 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 7 May 2002 19:44:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@rdy.com) Received: from sivka.rdy.com (nobody@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sivka.rdy.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g482icDN029190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 7 May 2002 19:44:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@rdy.com) Received: (from dima@localhost) by sivka.rdy.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g482ib84029185; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@rdy.com) X-Authentication-Warning: sivka.rdy.com: dima set sender to dima@rdy.com using -f Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:44:37 -0700 From: Dima Ruban To: Patrick Thomas Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Alan.Judge@eircom.net, dima@freebsd.org Subject: Re: syncookies exploit behavior Message-ID: <20020508024437.GA29151@sivka.rdy.com> References: <20020507104534.T63159-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020507104534.T63159-100000@utility.clubscholarship.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I doubt that it's a syncache related. The problem that I've had was quite simple and it's already fixed in both, current and stable. Here's commit log: Modified files: sys/netinet tcp_syncache.c Log: When a duplicate SYN arrives which matches an entry in the syncache, update our lazy reference to the inpcb structure, as it may have changed. It was happening on a busy thttpd server on a thttpd restart. As for your problem, I'd suggest plugging in a serial cable and running remote gdb on kernel. Please note, that you can disable syncookies with sysctl: sivka# sysctl -a | grep cookie net.inet.tcp.syncookies: 1 sivka# On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 10:51:37AM -0700, Patrick Thomas wrote: > > > Two questions regarding the syncookies issue - > > 1. What kind of crash is it ? I have an issue where my machine has no > response at the console, and none of the services work (pop, imap, etc.) > HOWEVER you can still ping it, and you can still initiate connections to > services - they just dont talk or respond at all - and cron jobs no longer > run. Someone suggested that it looks like my userland is frozen, but my > kernel is still running. > > Is that the kind of crash you get when you encounter the syncookies > problem ? > > > 2. Is there any way to scour tcpdump on the _affected_ machine to see if > syncookies was indeed your problem ? This is sort of two questions - > first, will the machine be crashed so fast it won't have time to write > tcpdump output to a file for the packet that caused the crash ? and > second, if it is possible, what would that tcpdump output look like ? > > > I suspect you can't scour tcpdump for it, since this problem can be caused > by legitimate traffic. > > comments appreciated, > > PT --dima To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 19:57:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web20909.mail.yahoo.com (web20909.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22D6137B409 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 19:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020508025709.27922.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.250.32.110] by web20909.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 May 2002 19:57:09 PDT Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:57:09 -0700 (PDT) From: amstrong akika Subject: TRANSACTION/CONTRACT AWARDED To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FROM:DR AMSTRONG AKIKA. FERDRAL MINISTRY OF WORKS & HOUSING. F.C.T ABUJA, NIGERIA. ATTN:Sir REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE IN A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION I am interested in your partnership in business dealing. This business proposal I wish to intimate you with is of mutual benefit and its success is entirely based on mutual trust, cooperation and a high level of confidentiality as regard this transaction. I am the Chairman of the Contract Advisory Committee (CAC) of the Nigerian Federal Ministry of Works and Housing (FMWH). I am seeking your assistance to enable me transfer the sum of US$21,400,000.00 (Twenty one Million, four Hundred Thousand United States Dollars) into your private/company account. The fund came about as a result of a contract awarded and executed on behalf of my Ministry the Federal Ministry of Works and Housing. The contract was supposed to be awarded to two foreign contractors to the tune of US$70,000,000.00 (Seventy Million United States Dollars). But in the course of negotiation, the contract was awarded to a Bulgarian contractor at the cost of US$48,600,000.00 (Forty-Eight Million, six Hundred Thousand United States Dollars) to my benefit unknown to the contractor. This contract has been satisfactorily executed and inspected as the Bulgarian firm is presently securing payment from my Ministry, where I am the Executive Director in-charge of all foreign contract payment approval. As a civil servant still in active government service, I am forbidden by law to operate an account outside the shores of Nigeria. Hence this message to you seeking your assistance so as to enable me present your private/company account details as a beneficiary of contractual claims alongside that of the Bulgarian contractor, to enable me transfer the difference of US$21,400,000.00 (Twenty one Million, four Hundred Thousand United States Dollars) into your provided account. On actualisation, the fund will be disbursed as stated below: 1. 20% of the fund will be for you as beneficiary 2. 5% for reimbursement to both parties for incidental expenses that may be incurred during the course of the transaction. 3. 75% of the fund will be for me which I intend to invest in your country with you as my partner. All logistics are in place and all modalities worked out for a smooth actualisation of the transaction within the next few working days of commencement. Thank you and God bless as I await your urgent response. Yours Sincerely, DR AMSTRONG AKIKA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 22:34:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D0C537B406 for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 22:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0728.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.218] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175K64-0001YJ-00; Tue, 07 May 2002 22:34:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD8B8D3.F605B84B@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 22:34:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aaron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG aaron wrote: > On Tuesday 07 May 2002 18:37, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". > > ok, i see.... > > Thanks for answering. I was under the impression that lots of linux apps rely > on promiscuous includes... so i expected them to be there in fbsd just as > well.. (but my memory of linux programming times is a bit fainted already). Yes. They do. There are also Linux applications which fail to bzero sockaddr_in's, like the original sample SLP code from Sun, and all sorts of other mistakes which end up making the code non-portable, so that it does not run on anything but Linux, unless you hack it up. There's lots of Windows code that has similar dependencies on things which happen to be true on Windows platforms, and nowhere else. In general, it's poor programming practice to make your code depend on the vagaries of a particular platform... though I realize that doing that to your code can be, in itself, a form of advocacy. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 7 22:51:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B0637B40D for ; Tue, 7 May 2002 22:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0728.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.218] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175KLn-0006Bb-00; Tue, 07 May 2002 22:50:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD8BCA2.E3463255@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 22:50:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: aaron , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> <20020507200148.GD11262@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 09:37:03AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". > > by whom? > > Your search - "promiscuous includes" - did not match any documents.[1] Old farts. Programmers who learned on systems with precompiled header (".i") files, and on machines where number of included files was a real factor in total compilation time? Before "#ifndef _STDIO_H_" became a common way of protecting programmers from including header files twice, instead of simply making it a compiler error, so that they actually had to think to write code. 8-) 8-). It's what my college professor called it, back in 1982 or so... so it's what I call it. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 3:31:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp45-25.dis.org [216.240.45.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B593437B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 03:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g48AT0Z1013171 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 03:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200205081029.g48AT0Z1013171@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:29:00 -0700 From: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Declaration =========== When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project. Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it. FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile. It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics. So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project. Discussion ========== I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly. From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrip our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished. There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want. Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress. Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers? Shouts ====== To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad. To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards. To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within. To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid. To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors. Future ====== I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations. However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots. You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again. = Mike -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 4:31:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay3.san1.aens.net (relay3.san1.aens.net [192.215.81.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE51C37B407 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 04:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MAIL.MTRK.COM (mail.mtrk.com [12.26.4.99]) by relay3.san1.aens.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27997 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:31:14 GMT From: ybh6@byt2798.fsworld.co.uk Received: from www.kcom.com(home-217-159-50-249.g2heurope.net[217.159.50.249]) by MAIL.MTRK.COM (IBM OS/400 SMTP V04R05M00) with TCP; Wed, 8 May 2002 07:28:50 +0000 Message-Id: <1RDC9C.3L0A8F9BIA.ybh6@byt2798.fsworld.co.uk> Subject: Computer Bargain (s) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received: from www.kcom.com by FH1YVA8.www.kcom.com with SMTP for circulators@aol.com; Wed, 08 May 2002 12:27:00 +0000 To: circulators@aol.com Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:27:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Sender: ybh6@byt2798.fsworld.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Why buy an expensive new computer to type letters, your finances, send = E-mails, keep a database or familiarise the family with computers.... We are disposing of 'second user' Dell computers for only 195 complete = (telephone orders only) The Desktop computers have Windows 95 and Word Processing, Database, and = Spreadsheet. You can also 'Surf' and send E-mails. Why spend 1000 on a = computer with tricky gizmos you won't use ? This is what you get...... * Pentium 133 (32 RAM, Min 1.0 Gig Hard Drive) * Colour Monitor (14" SVGA) * Keyboard and Mouse (new) * Windows 95 (loaded, running, online help) * Microsoft Works (Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Database) Only 195 Pounds Delivery 19.50 Choose any of these optional extras...... * Freeserve Internet ready to send E-mails and 'surf' (new fast 56K modem installed) Add 58.00 * CD ROM (Compact Disk for computers) Add 38.00 Your computer will arrive in 14 days and include cables, guidance notes, = help lines and a 30-day return to base guarantee to ensure these applications. = Simply plug in your computer and start using it.... To reserve your Computer call us on 0870 770 3384. Sorry, we cant accept e.= mail enquiries/orders. Pay by cheque or credit card and if you choose we won't = debit your card until after your computer arrives. Please call now on 0870 = 770 3384 before they all go. Regards Tony. Liquidated Computers P.S. Large discounts for cash The garage, 28 High St, Horley, Sry .No Laptops. Not for games. Global Sign = Ltd.Terms apply. Call 0870 770 3384 before they go! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 4:31:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from postoffice.aims.com.au (eth0.lnk.aims.com.au [203.31.73.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80A7137B40A for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 04:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.aims.com.au (nts-ts1.aims.private [192.168.10.2]) by postoffice.aims.com.au with ESMTP id g48BVOd85022 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 21:31:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from chris@aims.com.au) Received: from ntsts1 by aims.com.au with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.5.3.R) for ; Wed, 08 May 2002 21:30:30 +1000 Reply-To: From: "Chris Knight" To: Cc: Subject: RE: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:30:27 +1000 Message-ID: <02d901c1f683$c225f260$020aa8c0@aims.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: <200205081029.g48AT0Z1013171@mass.dis.org> Importance: Normal X-Return-Path: chris@aims.com.au X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy, It's unfortunate that it has got to the stage where you feel it necessary to leave core. I can appreciate you doing so, but from the sentiments you expressed, it sounds like the FreeBSD community needs more people like you within core. I'd like to thank you for your all your efforts related to FreeBSD, especially where you have personally helped me out. I hope for FreeBSD's sake that your disenchantment doesn't extend to code-cutting - talented programmers such as yourself are hard to come by; committee executives are a dime a dozen. Regards, Chris Knight Systems Administrator AIMS Independent Computer Professionals Tel: +61 3 6334 6664 Fax: +61 3 6331 7032 Mob: +61 419 528 795 Web: http://www.aims.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 4:44:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8764837B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 04:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g48Bicl32063; Wed, 8 May 2002 13:44:38 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g48BinZ27769; Wed, 8 May 2002 13:44:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3CD90FB1.7000806@nentec.de> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:44:49 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chris@aims.com.au, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) References: <02d901c1f683$c225f260$020aa8c0@aims.private> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I will keep this short so someone does jump all over me about being off topic about this. I share some of his ideas, but mainly those dealing with frustration. People here are saying with their mouths that they want new blood here, but following through with actions. People are afraid when somebody leaves core like this, but what about the future people who might want to help in this level. Short to the point as far as I am concerned. I have been in this business far too long to be treated like a newbie. I may be a new face here and my language may not be the best, but guarantee that unless the mood changes a little bit and it becomes a little more fun you can have it all to yourselves! :-( This comes to basic courtesy. If I reply to a question, then pay attention to that and not do like a particular one does and boldly expand to the point of being like an encyclopedia. This has happened more than once! I have been cautioned by a few wiser people here to have a thicker skin, but I will say one thing. As long as I am giving my free time (something these days that is in short supply) at least I should have fun at it and this just isn't fun... Let's all try to get along a little better. That goes for all the syntax checkers and people who are so stuck on rules of posting that they forget what collaboration and coopeation mean. If you don't like to read something, there's the delete key. It keeps the whole environment more civil. Not everybody has had the fortitude or longitude of being here for so long to know all of this historical arguments or what has or has not been said, so they know what should not be said. If there are complaint write them privately (Seems like I read these somewhere). Andy Chris Knight wrote: >Howdy, > >It's unfortunate that it has got to the stage where you feel it >necessary to leave core. I can appreciate you doing so, but from the >sentiments you expressed, it sounds like the FreeBSD community needs >more people like you within core. > >I'd like to thank you for your all your efforts related to FreeBSD, >especially where you have personally helped me out. > >I hope for FreeBSD's sake that your disenchantment doesn't extend to >code-cutting - talented programmers such as yourself are hard to >come by; committee executives are a dime a dozen. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 5:49:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meta.lo-res.org (meta.lo-res.org [195.58.189.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D977737B401 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 05:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chillig.lo-res.org ([62.116.8.4]) by meta.lo-res.org (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g48CngiC018496; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:49:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from aaron@lo-res.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: aaron To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:49:12 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD8B8D3.F605B84B@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3CD8B8D3.F605B84B@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200205081449.12733.aaron@lo-res.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday 08 May 2002 07:34, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Thanks for answering. I was under the impression that lots of linux apps > > rely on promiscuous includes... so i expected them to be there in fbsd > > just as well.. (but my memory of linux programming times is a bit fainted > > already). > > Yes. They do. > Would smthg like "what are promicous includes and why you don't want them" be a topic for a developers (and or the ports-) handbook (at the right place)? greetings, aaron. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 5:59:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.hub.org (earth.hub.org [64.49.215.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7773D37B404 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 05:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (earth.hub.org [64.49.215.11]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FAF103356; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:59:41 -0300 (ADT) Received: from earth.hub.org (earth.hub.org [64.49.215.11]) by earth.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709D910333F; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:59:40 -0300 (ADT) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:59:40 -0300 (ADT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Chris Knight Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Subject: RE: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-Reply-To: <02d901c1f683$c225f260$020aa8c0@aims.private> Message-ID: <20020508095850.M32524-100000@mail1.hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Couldn't have said it best ... the more we lose 'on the inside', the less chances, I would think, we'd have to make things right :( Sad to see another one fall ... :( On Wed, 8 May 2002, Chris Knight wrote: > Howdy, > > It's unfortunate that it has got to the stage where you feel it > necessary to leave core. I can appreciate you doing so, but from the > sentiments you expressed, it sounds like the FreeBSD community needs > more people like you within core. > > I'd like to thank you for your all your efforts related to FreeBSD, > especially where you have personally helped me out. > > I hope for FreeBSD's sake that your disenchantment doesn't extend to > code-cutting - talented programmers such as yourself are hard to > come by; committee executives are a dime a dozen. > > Regards, > Chris Knight > Systems Administrator > AIMS Independent Computer Professionals > Tel: +61 3 6334 6664 Fax: +61 3 6331 7032 Mob: +61 419 528 795 > Web: http://www.aims.com.au > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 6:37:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.trident-uk.co.uk (mail.trident-uk.co.uk [195.166.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF0037B405 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 06:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by marvin.trident-uk.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g48DJJI68992 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:19:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from trident-uk.co.uk (root@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk [194.207.93.63]) by marvin.trident-uk.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1av) with ESMTP id g48DJHu68982 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:19:17 +0100 (BST) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by trident-uk.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48Dje233403; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:45:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jamie) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:45:40 +0100 From: Jamie Heckford To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: jamie@trident-uk.co.uk Subject: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? Message-ID: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> Reply-To: jamie@tridentmicrosystems.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Im having strange problems with a Compaq DL360 rackmount machine, which has 2x Broadcom BCM5701 Gigabit Ethernet Adapters installed. FreeBSD (4.5-R) recognises the cards, but is displaying odd behaviour. For example, on boot it correctly assigns the card the IP address etc, and the link light is on on both the switch port and NIC. However, as soon as an application tries to use the card (In the case of the bootup sequence ntpdate) the link light on the NIC turns off - but remains lit on the switch port! Attempting to put any sort of traffic across the link then fails. Pinging localhost and the cards IP address from the machine works fine but not from anywhere else on the network. The switch its connected to is a Cisco Cat. 2924. I've tried forcing the card and the switch port to 100Mbit FDX, and setting both sides to auto-neg but have had no luck. Would anyone be able to let me know if there are any known issues with the driver/card? Thanks in advance, -- Jamie Heckford Network Manager Trident Microsystems Ltd Tel: 01737 780790 Fax: 01737 771908 http://www.tridentmicrosystems.co.uk *********** This e-mail message contains confidential information for the above addressee only. Any opinion or views contained in this e-mail message are those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the Company. Unless otherwise stated this e-mail message is not intended to be contractually binding. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free and the sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Trident Microsystems Ltd Group of Companies Perrywood Business Park, Honeycrock Lane, Salfords, Redhill, Surrey, RH1 5JQ Tel: (44) (0) 1737 780790 Fax: (44) (0) 1737 771908 Registered office: Abacus House, Bone Lane, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 5SF To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 7: 0:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FC337B407; Wed, 8 May 2002 07:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g48E0Db5056484; Wed, 8 May 2002 10:00:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-Reply-To: <200205081029.g48AT0Z1013171@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 8 May 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and > milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's > about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most > people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. > Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of > where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and > mechanics. > > So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing > something" about a project that has lost interest in having something > done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a > losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't > achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain > obligated to care for the project. Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, and that I hope that you'll choose to remain involved in the project in the manner you feel both able and willing. Your contributions in both the technical space (expecially relating to hardware support for RAID, and especially of late relating to ACPI) have been greatly appreciated, as have your contributions to managing the project and setting its direction. In all institutions, there are the inevitable politics, and the inevitable noise. That noise can become overwhelming, especially when the noisy people are quite noisy and Feel They Must Be Heard; that said, while I sympathize with your viewpoint, I'm not sure I agree with the fundamental conclusion. My only suggestion would be that you do exactly what you are already doing. Take a step back (maybe two), and do the things that you find personally motivating--spending time on things that leave you with this kind of feeling isn't what it's all about. See if some combination of the project growing and your being less involved makes things sufficiently palatable for you to become more involved again. > I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, > it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, > and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations. That's more than we can ask of you, and something we're lucky if you want to do. :-) > However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess > the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that > my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I > won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the > next round of ballots. > > You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but > I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project > somewhere fun to be again. I think it's still fun for many people involved, or more of them would long since have left. I know I personally enjoy this work a great deal, and that's why I spend so much time on it. I also know that it's not the political fray that I'm here for--it's the fascinating technical work, the challenge of the operating system environment, and the opportunity to do some new and really exciting things with a number of other people who feel the same way. The FreeBSD Project has proven in the past, and still proves to be, an excellent vehicle for people who have a technical vision and technical expertise to explore both of them, and at the end of the day, produce a piece of software that lets hundreds of millions of people a day do their work. We need to look at this past success to see the success we can have in the future. I agree that there needs to be change in the areas you've pointed at--I've taken note, and I hope that others will too. Thanks again for everything you've done, Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 7:31:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.safety.net (ns3.safety.net [216.40.201.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A539437B426 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 07:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from les@localhost) by ns3.safety.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) id g48EUll27242 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 May 2002 07:30:47 -0700 From: Les Biffle Message-Id: <200205081430.g48EUll27242@ns3.safety.net> Subject: Mbuf questions To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:30:47 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can someone give a pointer to the procedure for doing the following? I've searched the website and archives as well as my source tree, but nothing seems pertinent. In FreeBSD 3.5: A kernel routine uses m_copydata to gather ethernet data into a KMALLOC'd buffer, processes it, and now needs to put it back into an mbuf. I would prefer that the resulting mbuf have the data together in an external buffer, so that the cycles spent aren't wasted. I currently use m_copyback to put the data back into the original mbuf chain, but an going nuts trying to get the chain to shrink when the data shrinks without the next invocation of m_copydata panicing. Thanks, -Les -- Les Biffle (480) 585-4099 les@safety.net http://www.les.safety.net/ Network Safety Corp., 5831 E. Dynamite Blvd., Cave Creek, AZ 85331 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 8:16:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from energyhq.homeip.net (213-97-200-73.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.97.200.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9257237B407 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by energyhq.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DC7C33FC46; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:16:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:16:35 +0200 From: Miguel Mendez To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: extra sanity check in modules Message-ID: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've been thinking of adding an extra check in kldload. My idea is to have= =20 an md5 sum per module, so for foo.ko we'd have foo.ko.md5. At load time the md5 is checked, if it doesn't test ok the module is not loaded. The md5 files could chflagged as inmutable for extra security. Is it worth having this or just a silly idea? I might start hacking on my DP1 box on this thing later. Cheers, --=20 Miguel Mendez - flynn@energyhq.homeip.net GPG Public Key :: http://energyhq.homeip.net/files/pubkey.txt EnergyHQ :: http://www.energyhq.tk FreeBSD - The power to serve! --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE82UFTnLctrNyFFPERAtFcAJ9w+GLXGVItLLZEr/UgqlUzjyLa2QCfUPLS I8sHUTm3E8BS4W2Mix4JV+E= =Ynpt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 8:46:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from damon.com (damon.com [199.98.84.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 339E137B404 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48Fk6t56586; Wed, 8 May 2002 10:46:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dap) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:46:06 -0500 From: Damon Anton Permezel To: Jamie Heckford Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jamie@trident-uk.co.uk Subject: Re: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? Message-ID: <20020508104606.F53377@damon.com> References: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk>; from jamie@tridentmicrosystems.co.uk on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:45:40PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. I just yesterday pulled out one of these because I figured it must be hardwarily broken, given that the bge driver works so well for the embedded BCM5700 on the motherboard of another box. My experience was that the link would come up on the switch as 1000baseTX, but the ifconfig would report the device as 100baseTX. If I "ifconfig bge0 down media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex up" the switch would evidence link down/link up<100baseTX> and a few packets could be exchanged. Doing pings, then, I would see on the target side, but many missed .... RX was not working. Not just an issue of missing interrupts, as the replies were lost (missing ping sequence numbers). "netstat -s" would indicate UDP packets with bad chacksums received. TCP also. Not the case for ICMP or IP-header: no checksum error stats recorded. Essentially unusable though. If I tried to "ifconfig bge0 down media 1000baseTX" I would get an error indicating that 1000baseTX was not a suitable option. Booting with "-v" I would see a whole slew of PHY output indicating many duplicate instances of 100baseTX phys being found, but no 1000baseTX that I remember seeing. Sorry, can't get to those logs right now. This is what it looks like on the BCM5700: miibus1: on bge0 brgphy0: on miibus1 brgphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, 1000baseTX, 1000baseTX-FDX, auto I remember there were brgphyN for some N at least <= 7, some babble about some 802.XY where Y was 'q' or 'u', perhaps, and I do not recall seeing "1000baseTX". If I ifconfig'd down/up too many times (like: two), the system froze. I really needed some damn interface running so I could CVSUP the box. In frustration, I almost installed loonix on it.... thats how desperate one can get these days, what with rumours of FreeBSD's demise and all, but fortunately, reason prevailed. If there is reason to suspect that the hardware is not toasted, I hereby offer my assistance in debugging, testing, or even fixing the driver. All I would need in the latter case is the relevant specs and errata. Cheers, Damon. On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:45:40PM +0100, Jamie Heckford wrote: > Hi, > > Im having strange problems with a Compaq DL360 rackmount machine, which > has 2x Broadcom BCM5701 Gigabit Ethernet Adapters installed. > > FreeBSD (4.5-R) recognises the cards, but is displaying odd behaviour. > > For example, on boot it correctly assigns the card the IP address etc, and > the link light is on on both the switch port and NIC. However, as soon as > an application tries to use the card (In the case of the bootup sequence > ntpdate) the link light on the NIC turns off - but remains lit on the > switch port! Attempting to put any sort of traffic across the link then > fails. > > Pinging localhost and the cards IP address from the machine works > fine but not from anywhere else on the network. > > The switch its connected to is a Cisco Cat. 2924. I've tried forcing the > card and the switch port to 100Mbit FDX, and setting both sides to auto-neg > but have had no luck. > > Would anyone be able to let me know if there are any known issues with > the driver/card? > > Thanks in advance, > > -- > Jamie Heckford > Network Manager > Trident Microsystems Ltd > Tel: 01737 780790 Fax: 01737 771908 > http://www.tridentmicrosystems.co.uk > > *********** > > This e-mail message contains confidential information for > the above addressee only. Any opinion or views contained > in this e-mail message are those of the sender and do not > necessarily represent those of the Company. Unless otherwise > stated this e-mail message is not intended to be contractually > binding. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free and the sender therefore does not accept > liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this > message. > > Trident Microsystems Ltd Group of Companies > Perrywood Business Park, Honeycrock Lane, Salfords, Redhill, > Surrey, RH1 5JQ > > Tel: (44) (0) 1737 780790 Fax: (44) (0) 1737 771908 > > Registered office: Abacus House, Bone Lane, Newbury, > Berkshire, RG14 5SF > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- -- Damon Permezel dap@damon.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 8:50:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676D737B423 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g48FnMHA011024; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:49:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: Jamie Heckford , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jamie@trident-uk.co.uk Subject: Re: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 May 2002 10:46:06 CDT." <20020508104606.F53377@damon.com> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:49:22 +0200 Message-ID: <11023.1020872962@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020508104606.F53377@damon.com>, Damon Anton Permezel writes: >Hi. I just yesterday pulled out one of these because I figured it must >be hardwarily broken, given that the bge driver works so well for the >embedded BCM5700 on the motherboard of another box. > >My experience was that the link would come up on the switch as 1000baseTX, >but the ifconfig would report the device as 100baseTX. > >If I "ifconfig bge0 down media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex up" >the switch would evidence link down/link up<100baseTX> and a few packets >could be exchanged. The data-sheet for nationals DP83861 mentions a flaw in certain broadcom chips, you may have hit that. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 8:58:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from damon.com (damon.com [199.98.84.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35BB37B401 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48FvI456651; Wed, 8 May 2002 10:57:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dap) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:57:18 -0500 From: Damon Anton Permezel To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Jamie Heckford , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jamie@trident-uk.co.uk Subject: Re: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? Message-ID: <20020508105718.H53377@damon.com> References: <20020508104606.F53377@damon.com> <11023.1020872962@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <11023.1020872962@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:49:22PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:49:22PM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20020508104606.F53377@damon.com>, Damon Anton Permezel writes: > >Hi. I just yesterday pulled out one of these because I figured it must > >be hardwarily broken, given that the bge driver works so well for the > >embedded BCM5700 on the motherboard of another box. > > > >My experience was that the link would come up on the switch as 1000baseTX, > >but the ifconfig would report the device as 100baseTX. > > > >If I "ifconfig bge0 down media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex up" > >the switch would evidence link down/link up<100baseTX> and a few packets > >could be exchanged. > > The data-sheet for nationals DP83861 mentions a flaw in certain > broadcom chips, you may have hit that. That reference is to the BCM5400, nest par? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 8:59:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1E437B407 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g48Fx4p00666; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id g48Fx4100210; Wed, 8 May 2002 08:59:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205081559.g48Fx4100210@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Cc: jamie@tridentmicrosystems.co.uk Subject: Re: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? In-Reply-To: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> References: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk>, Jamie Heckford wrote: > > Im having strange problems with a Compaq DL360 rackmount machine, which > has 2x Broadcom BCM5701 Gigabit Ethernet Adapters installed. > > FreeBSD (4.5-R) recognises the cards, but is displaying odd behaviour. There have been significant improvements to the driver since 4.5-RELEASE. Upgrade the driver to the latest version from -stable. That one works well with the BCM5701. John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chgyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 9:18:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9DB037B415 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9AC64AE03F; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:18:27 -0700 From: Paul Saab To: Jamie Heckford Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jamie@trident-uk.co.uk Subject: Re: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? Message-ID: <20020508161827.GA73896@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Heckford (jamie@tridentmicrosystems.co.uk) wrote: > Hi, > > Im having strange problems with a Compaq DL360 rackmount machine, which > has 2x Broadcom BCM5701 Gigabit Ethernet Adapters installed. The BCM5701 does not work with 4.5-RELEASE, you need -stable for this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 9:23:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jupiter.linuxengine.net (jupiter.linuxengine.net [209.61.188.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6677837B405 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiterweb.commercevault.com (jupiterweb.commercevault.com [209.61.179.16] (may be forged)) by jupiter.linuxengine.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g48GNVo07883; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:23:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:23:31 -0500 (CDT) From: John Utz X-X-Sender: john@jupiter.linuxengine.net To: Mike Makonnen Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how does the kernel build process resolve struct defs that arent defined in the compilation unit, declared extern or included in? In-Reply-To: <1020825830.50729.14.camel@kokeb.ambesa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ahh the joys of email. you learn really fast, assuming you can stand the embarrassment! mike, thankyou very much for taking the time to check the code. i appreciate it an awful lot. On Tue, 7 May 2002, Mike Makonnen wrote: > On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 19:01, John Utz wrote: > > Hi; > > > > if /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c has a structure that is an array of struct > > pnp_cinfo and struct pnp_cinfo is only declared in > > /usr/src/sys/boot/isapnp.h and struct pnp_cinfo isnt declared extern in > > /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c and /usr/src/sys/isa/pnp.c doesnt #include > > nore does any of the files that pnp.c actually includes, > > then how could it possibly compile? i have a pnp.o in my build dir and the > > pnp stuff works in my kernel, so i am kinda lost > > > > any insight into how this works, or any pointer to mistakes i may have > > made in interpreting the facts on my box would be greatly appreciated. > > That declaration is inside an #if 0 block. > > #if 0 > ... > #endif oops. this is what i meant about the embarrasment part! :-) > The #if will always evaluate to false, so it won't try and compile it. > The only reference to it is also #if 0'ed out. yah, i know how it works. i wonder how many more days i would have spent looking until i finally noticed. :-( thankyou very much for your help! johnu > > Cheers, > Mike Makonnen > -- John L. Utz III john@utzweb.net Idiocy is the Impulse Function in the Convolution of Life To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 9:24:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pony-express6.csc.com (ponyexpress6.csc.com [208.219.64.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64D737B400 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from csc.com (va-fch31.csc.com [20.1.107.9]) by pony-express6.csc.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GVS008T6W9UM5@pony-express6.csc.com> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 08 May 2002 12:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:48:31 +0200 From: Abraham T Makutseng Subject: Subscribe To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.6a January 17, 2001 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on VA-FCH31/SRV/CSC(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 05/08/2002 12:29:33 PM Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Good day, please could I be included in your mailing list Thank you To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 9:29:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C88037B408; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 175UJS-00014S-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 18:29:10 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Robert Watson Cc: Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400." Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 18:29:10 +0200 Message-ID: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're > sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, [...] Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's leaving the core team. His heart's obviously not in it any more, so the fact that he has all the right skills for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any more. And his leaving the core team will hopefully free him up to contribute more brilliant code. I can't be the only one getting the warm fuzzies at the prospect of an mlycontrol(8). :-) Only thing I'm sorry to hear is that Mike's not a superhuman. Fortunately, the new Spider Man movie's just been released here in South Africa, so I think I'll cope. :-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 9:33:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.trident-uk.co.uk (mail.trident-uk.co.uk [195.166.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A7637B401 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 09:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by marvin.trident-uk.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g48GE5v83301; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:14:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from trident-uk.co.uk (root@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk [194.207.93.63]) by marvin.trident-uk.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1av) with ESMTP id g48GE4u83292; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:14:04 +0100 (BST) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by trident-uk.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48GeU934077; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:40:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jamie) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:40:30 +0100 From: Jamie Heckford To: Paul Saab Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Broadcom BCM5701 GigE Ethernet problems?? Message-ID: <20020508174030.A34058@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> Reply-To: jamie@tridentmicrosystems.co.uk References: <20020508144540.A33368@mufuf.trident-uk.co.uk> <20020508161827.GA73896@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020508161827.GA73896@elvis.mu.org>; from ps@mu.org on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 09:18:27AM -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just grabbed the latest -stable snapshot, all works a treat :-) Thanks very much for your help Thus spake Paul Saab (ps@mu.org) : > Jamie Heckford (jamie@tridentmicrosystems.co.uk) wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Im having strange problems with a Compaq DL360 rackmount machine, which > > has 2x Broadcom BCM5701 Gigabit Ethernet Adapters installed. > > The BCM5701 does not work with 4.5-RELEASE, you need -stable for this. -- Jamie Heckford Network Manager Trident Microsystems Ltd Tel: 01737 780790 Fax: 01737 771908 http://www.tridentmicrosystems.co.uk *********** This e-mail message contains confidential information for the above addressee only. Any opinion or views contained in this e-mail message are those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the Company. Unless otherwise stated this e-mail message is not intended to be contractually binding. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free and the sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Trident Microsystems Ltd Group of Companies Perrywood Business Park, Honeycrock Lane, Salfords, Redhill, Surrey, RH1 5JQ Tel: (44) (0) 1737 780790 Fax: (44) (0) 1737 771908 Registered office: Abacus House, Bone Lane, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 5SF To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 11: 6: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E77437B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id g48I5a007858; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:05:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:05:36 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Miguel Mendez Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: extra sanity check in modules Message-ID: <20020508110535.A4025@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net>; from flynn@energyhq.homeip.net on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:16:35PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:16:35PM +0200, Miguel Mendez wrote: > I've been thinking of adding an extra check in kldload. My idea is to hav= e=20 > an md5 sum per module, so for foo.ko we'd have foo.ko.md5. At load time > the md5 is checked, if it doesn't test ok the module is not loaded. The > md5 files could chflagged as inmutable for extra security. Is it worth > having this or just a silly idea? I might start hacking on my DP1 box on > this thing later. IMO, this is a silly idea, expecialy on a development version of the OS. I always hated the schg flag on the kernel and I'm glad it's gone in current. I'd oppose adding that sort of foolishness to the modules. It would make development of modules unnecessicairly painful. Additional, I don't see any way this would prevent the loading of unauthorized kernel modules since you could just create checksums for them. A better approach would probably be an integrity based MAC solution which could refuse to load any module which arrived via an untrusted medium (the network for example) or where created from sources which did the same. If I understand the TrustedBSD work, this may well be possiable soon. -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE82WjsXY6L6fI4GtQRAsjIAJ46bkhbOJmhQ0CjZTrGXxzU4cApAQCg6G84 SEC4RoliOAvkW1gRJC7Uqxg= =+5hN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 11:16:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C04737B404 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blossom.cjclark.org ([12.234.91.48]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020508181608.UDHH25765.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@blossom.cjclark.org>; Wed, 8 May 2002 18:16:08 +0000 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by blossom.cjclark.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48IG7q94717; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:16:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:16:07 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Miguel Mendez Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: extra sanity check in modules Message-ID: <20020508111607.C94469@blossom.cjclark.org> References: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net>; from flynn@energyhq.homeip.net on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:16:35PM +0200 X-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:16:35PM +0200, Miguel Mendez wrote: > Hi, > > I've been thinking of adding an extra check in kldload. My idea is to have > an md5 sum per module, so for foo.ko we'd have foo.ko.md5. At load time > the md5 is checked, if it doesn't test ok the module is not loaded. The > md5 files could chflagged as inmutable for extra security. Is it worth > having this or just a silly idea? I might start hacking on my DP1 box on > this thing later. What does it gain you? If someone can modify the foo.ko, they can modify the foo.ko.md5. What does making foo.ko.md5 immutable do that that just making foo.ko immutable wouldn't? -- Crist J. Clark | cjclark@alum.mit.edu | cjclark@jhu.edu http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ | cjc@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 11:31:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from energyhq.homeip.net (213-97-200-73.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.97.200.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9894337B409; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by energyhq.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4A4AB3FC2F; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:31:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 20:31:30 +0200 From: Miguel Mendez To: "Crist J. Clark" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: extra sanity check in modules Message-ID: <20020508203130.A50402@energyhq.homeip.net> References: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net> <20020508111607.C94469@blossom.cjclark.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020508111607.C94469@blossom.cjclark.org>; from cjc@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 11:16:07AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 11:16:07AM -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > What does it gain you? If someone can modify the foo.ko, they can > modify the foo.ko.md5. What does making foo.ko.md5 immutable do that > that just making foo.ko immutable wouldn't? Hmmm, okay, so what if the md5 data is stored in a read only place? I wasn'= t=20 only thinking about security here, I was also thinking about a way to avoid loading a module in case somehow it became corrupted. I'll go ahead and do it anyway and post the patch somewhere, don't really care if people end up using it or not. Cheers, --=20 Miguel Mendez - flynn@energyhq.homeip.net GPG Public Key :: http://energyhq.homeip.net/files/pubkey.txt EnergyHQ :: http://www.energyhq.tk FreeBSD - The power to serve! --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE82W8CnLctrNyFFPERAqTBAJ4v9XWKOSq2XxSEqz99Trt1M72m4ACbBArT aXPTcaRwi5JTKNpHzhH/X9o= =uOFr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 11:47:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAD837B41F for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0365.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.110] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175WSe-0000u5-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 11:46:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD9727B.B53067A4@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:46:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aaron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD8B8D3.F605B84B@mindspring.com> <200205081449.12733.aaron@lo-res.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG aaron wrote: > On Wednesday 08 May 2002 07:34, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Thanks for answering. I was under the impression that lots of linux apps > > > rely on promiscuous includes... so i expected them to be there in fbsd > > > just as well.. (but my memory of linux programming times is a bit fainted > > > already). > > > > Yes. They do. > > Would smthg like "what are promicous includes and why you don't want them" > be a topic for a developers (and or the ports-) handbook (at the right place)? Maybe. Basically, any time an include file includes another include file, with certain rare expections, it's hiding the relationship between the interfaces exposed into the namespace, and the include file that *actually* did the exposing. The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". When someone says "promiscuous knowledge", they mean knowledge that has come through a covert channel. If you can use a manifest constant that was defined by an include file that another include file happened to include, then when you go to compile that program on another platform, you may or may not have that manifest constant in scope by the time it is used. If you don't, you'll get a compilation error (like the ones that started this thread). Software that includes all the include files specified as necessary by POSIX is guaranteed to not suffer from this type of error (though your code may have other errors that this would not fix ;^)). OS's that have promiscuous includes (e.g. "if you include stdio.h, everything else gets included for you") enable bad code to be written unknowingly, by programmers who fail to remember the interface requirements from the manual pages (or fail to check them when they don't remember, and rely on the compiler to tell them when they are missing an include file, so they can go read the manual page to find out which include file is missing). The general rule there is "bad code is bad". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 11:52:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFD937B40A for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blossom.cjclark.org ([12.234.91.48]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020508185222.VTZK25765.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@blossom.cjclark.org>; Wed, 8 May 2002 18:52:22 +0000 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by blossom.cjclark.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48IqLj94902; Wed, 8 May 2002 11:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:52:21 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Miguel Mendez Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: extra sanity check in modules Message-ID: <20020508115221.E94469@blossom.cjclark.org> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20020508171635.A50078@energyhq.homeip.net> <20020508111607.C94469@blossom.cjclark.org> <20020508203130.A50402@energyhq.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020508203130.A50402@energyhq.homeip.net>; from flynn@energyhq.homeip.net on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 08:31:30PM +0200 X-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 08:31:30PM +0200, Miguel Mendez wrote: > On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 11:16:07AM -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > > What does it gain you? If someone can modify the foo.ko, they can > > modify the foo.ko.md5. What does making foo.ko.md5 immutable do that > > that just making foo.ko immutable wouldn't? > > Hmmm, okay, so what if the md5 data is stored in a read only place? Why not store the modules there? > I wasn't > only thinking about security here, I was also thinking about a way to > avoid loading a module in case somehow it became corrupted. In that case, you might just be better off putting a checksum in the module itself. -- Crist J. Clark | cjclark@alum.mit.edu | cjclark@jhu.edu http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ | cjc@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 12: 5:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dhcp117.mvista.com (gateway-1237.mvista.com [12.44.186.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0084F37B40A for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nbliss@localhost) by dhcp117.mvista.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g48J2ob32710; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:02:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:02:50 -0700 From: Neil Bliss To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: nbliss@mvista.com Subject: configuring X on a vaio pcg-c1vp Message-ID: <20020508120250.J12891@dhcp117.mvista.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey folks, Does anyone have any pointers or advice for getting X running on my sony vaio pcg-c1vp picturebook? thanks, Neil -- Neil Bliss - Monta Vista Technical Support Yow!-Zippy-says: I wish I was on a Cincinnati street corner holding a clean dog! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 12: 9:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org (12-253-177-2.client.attbi.com [12.253.177.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0454237B407 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.42.2] (peace.hippie.lan [172.22.42.2]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g48J98G76591 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 13:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:09:14 -0600 Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h From: Ian To: freebsd-hackers Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CD9727B.B53067A4@mindspring.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and differing opinions exist. My opinion is that if a given header file requires some aspect of another interface, that header should (nay, MUST) include what it needs for itself, rather than relying on something external to "do the right thing". Why require thousands of programmers to remember all these interdependancies as opposed to one programmer encoding the depenancy once where it belongs and then everyone else can get on with their life and get some real coding done. Within the context of a given project (E.G., FreeBSD) someone's opinion on this matter may achieve the force of "a rule". Within the larger context of software engineering in general there is no rule, not even a concensus, on this issue. -- Ian Programmer since 1972 C programmer since 1985 Demagogue since... well, as long as I can remember. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 12:10:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3843B37B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0365.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.110] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175Wp5-0007lc-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 12:09:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD977EA.AF875D80@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:09:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Neil Bliss Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: configuring X on a vaio pcg-c1vp References: <20020508120250.J12891@dhcp117.mvista.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Neil Bliss wrote: > Hey folks, > > Does anyone have any pointers or advice for getting X running on my sony vaio > pcg-c1vp picturebook? The easiest thing is to go looking for it at yahoo/google; the config will be the same for FreeBSD as it is for Linux/whatever. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 12:34:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6947137B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0365.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.110] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175XCc-00030q-00; Wed, 08 May 2002 12:34:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3CD97D9D.E4E734D5@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:33:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ian wrote: > > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". > > Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and > differing opinions exist. Of course they are opinions. They just happen to be, in most cases, codified by the IEEE POSIX and Single Unix Specification standards, however, whose man pages for system interfaces dictate which headers *must* be included for the interfaces. > My opinion is that if a given header file requires some aspect of another > interface, that header should (nay, MUST) include what it needs for itself, > rather than relying on something external to "do the right thing". You mean "something external, like a professional programmer". > Why require thousands of programmers to remember all these interdependancies > as opposed to one programmer encoding the depenancy once where it belongs and > then everyone else can get on with their life and get some real coding done. Because it is their job to know such things, and it is why they "get the big bucks"? So that their code written on Linux will compile without errors on Solaris, FreeBSD, AIX, NetBSD, OpenBSD, HP/UX, etc.? Because "fixing" the broken portability of code by changing the OS is breaking it, not fixing? Because the sooner that a new programmer learns that there are differences between implementations on platforms, and learns to program to standards, rather than to implementations, the better off we will all be? > Within the context of a given project (E.G., FreeBSD) someone's opinion on > this matter may achieve the force of "a rule". Within the larger context of > software engineering in general there is no rule, not even a concensus, on > this issue. My opinion is *far far away* from the force of "a rule" within the FreeBSD project. However, I think that there is a general consensus against promiscuous includes. Including include files automatically because someone *may* use an interface which required both to be in scope is tantamount to mixing Magnesium powder in with the Sulfer powder, so that chemists who need both, and can only remember the Sulfer, get both when they need it. And then if there is Magnesium powder "in scope" when they add the acid, well, they had better just learn to use acid that doesn't react adversely with Magnesium... "Where did I put that Magnesium-proof Sulfuric Acid again?". I may *want* to redefine manifest constants, or provide wrapper versions of functions by renaming the real things and calling the renamed versions from my wrapper versions, so that calls to the code go through my instrumentation. Not permitting me to do redefinition between one "#include" and another "#include" because the second is embedded in the first *robs* me of language features which would allow me to do that. A "#define" doesn't work on an lvalue to another "#define". I guess I could: #define _FOO_H_ 1 #include #undef _FOO_H_ .. insert macro hackery here ... #include To avoid "fee.h" automatically including "foo.h" against my will, but, sheesh, working around the cure is worse than the disease! All to make up for programmers who are incapable of reading the documentation, but somehow supposedly still able to program otherwise correct code, despite their lack of knowledge regarding the interfaces they are using. Anyone who wants to be able to swing a dead cat at a keyboard, and then walk away with a running program, should probably stick to APL... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 12:39:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from taupo.cs.waikato.ac.nz (taupo.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.250.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE0837B407; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joerg@localhost) by taupo.cs.waikato.ac.nz (8.11.3/8.11.1) id g48JYfH05801; Thu, 9 May 2002 07:34:41 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from joerg) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:34:41 +1200 From: Joerg Micheel To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Message-ID: <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz> References: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za>; from sheldonh@starjuice.net on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:29:10PM +0200 Operating-System: ... powered by FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:29:10PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're > > sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, [...] > > Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's leaving the core > team. His heart's obviously not in it any more, so the fact that he has > all the right skills for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any > more. It sounds like it is people like you who have been giving Mike a hard time. It also appears that you haven't learned a iota from this whole incident. Honestly, I would have rather you had kept your mouth shut and listened, this is not the time to spread your evil ink, but sit down and ponder about what went wrong here. I am not impressed. Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: WAND and NLANR MOAT Email: The University of Waikato, CompScience Phone: +64 7 8384794 Private Bag 3105 Fax: +64 7 8585095 Hamilton, New Zealand Plan: PMA, TINE and the DAG's To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 12:52:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C7D37B412 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g48JqanG125288; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:52:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CD8BCA2.E3463255@mindspring.com> References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD802AF.45825A2C@mindspring.com> <20020507200148.GD11262@elvis.mu.org> <3CD8BCA2.E3463255@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:52:35 -0400 To: Terry Lambert , Bill Fumerola From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:50 PM -0700 5/7/02, Terry Lambert wrote: >Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Tue, May 07, 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Such an arrangement is called "promiscuous includes". >> >> by whom? >> > > Your search - "promiscuous includes" - did not match any > > documents.[1] > >Old farts. I refuse to comment on the grounds it may incriminate me. >Before "#ifndef _STDIO_H_" became a common way of protecting >programmers from including header files twice, instead of simply >making it a compiler error, so that they actually had to think >to write code. > >8-) 8-). > >It's what my college professor called it, back in 1982 or so... >so it's what I call it. I know I've heard the term. It's very likely that my memory of it is from before 1990... Certainly it's a phrase which is apt, and it's pretty easy to guess what it means. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 13:42:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-43.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8D037BF8F; Wed, 8 May 2002 13:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3BB0166DCB; Wed, 8 May 2002 13:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 13:39:41 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Joerg Micheel Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Message-ID: <20020508133940.A88104@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="huq684BweRXVnRxX" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz>; from joerg@cs.waikato.ac.nz on Thu, May 09, 2002 at 07:34:41AM +1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --huq684BweRXVnRxX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 07:34:41AM +1200, Joerg Micheel wrote: > On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:29:10PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > >=20 > > > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we'= re > > > sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, [...] > >=20 > > Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's leaving the core > > team. His heart's obviously not in it any more, so the fact that he has > > all the right skills for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any > > more. >=20 > It sounds like it is people like you who have been giving Mike a hard > time. I think you completely missed the tone of Sheldon's message. Kris --huq684BweRXVnRxX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE82Y0MWry0BWjoQKURAlQjAKDzAQzR1HALpCTCw8kpthUPUG6nywCgxEQw ZVMD9LjJs7VtLHqdPFw31Eg= =mLIx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --huq684BweRXVnRxX-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 14: 6:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from us.net (newmail2.one.net [216.23.22.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EF1F37C3C6 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 32419 invoked by uid 0); 8 May 2002 21:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shell.one.net) (206.112.192.106) by newmail2.one.net with SMTP; 8 May 2002 21:02:23 -0000 Received: (from cokane@localhost) by shell.one.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) id g48L2FS20770; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:02:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:02:15 -0400 From: Coleman Kane To: Joerg Micheel Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Message-ID: <20020508170215.A15872@shell.one.net> References: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz>; from joerg@cs.waikato.ac.nz on Thu, May 09, 2002 at 07:34:41AM +1200 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.12 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Who knows, perhaps between Mike and Jordan leaving and the atmosphere that surrounds all of this trouble, it may bring up leadership from some of the younger community to actually do something real nice for the project. I first started working on the project about three or so years ago, got commit status actually recommended by Mike of all people and have been helping out in my spare time (between school and work). I started using the OS back when 2.2.8 came out and fell in love with it instantly, which I sure is true of many others soon after their initial install of FreeBSD. Heck, at UC we changed the Linux Users' Group to the Free OS Users' group due to the number of staunch BSD advocates and users who were active members. Anyway, I don't really believe the whole 'FreeBSD is dead' crap that has been circulating, with the quickly growing user base and the increase in developer support this is a setback for the group, but it will live on, at least as long as there is a significant community backing it up. When we all vote for Core this time, it will be for a new set of representatives for the group. Perhaps this time it will bring together new faces and ideas for the future of the project. Anyway Mike, it was great to have a developer of your caliber on the core team, but I can identify with the problems that arise when procedural and political work begins to conflict with the coding work that one is working on. Hope you haven't been too turned off to the point of dropping out alltogether. Try not to let the personal attacks get to you. Thats my 2 cents, -- coleman kane Thus spoke Joerg Micheel , and it was proclaimed: > On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:29:10PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > > > > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're > > > sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, [...] > > > > Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's leaving the core > > team. His heart's obviously not in it any more, so the fact that he has > > all the right skills for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any > > more. > > It sounds like it is people like you who have been giving Mike a hard > time. It also appears that you haven't learned a iota from this whole > incident. Honestly, I would have rather you had kept your mouth shut > and listened, this is not the time to spread your evil ink, but sit down > and ponder about what went wrong here. > > I am not impressed. > Joerg > -- > Joerg B. Micheel Email: > WAND and NLANR MOAT Email: > The University of Waikato, CompScience Phone: +64 7 8384794 > Private Bag 3105 Fax: +64 7 8585095 > Hamilton, New Zealand Plan: PMA, TINE and the DAG's > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 14:34: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655BE37B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g48LXlnG564312; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:33:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz> References: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz> Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:33:45 -0400 To: Joerg Micheel , Sheldon Hearn From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:34 AM +1200 5/9/02, Joerg Micheel wrote: >On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:29:10PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: >> On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: >> > > > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when > > > I say that we're sorry to hear that you are resigning > > > from the core team, [...] > > > > Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's > > leaving the core team. His heart's obviously not in it > > any more, so the fact that he has all the right skills > > for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any more. > >It sounds like it is people like you who have been giving >Mike a hard time. What Sheldon meant may not have come across clearly to all readers. I must admit that my initial reaction to Sheldon's comment was similar to yours, but then I read it a bit closer and slower. Think of it this way: Mike says that it no longer fun to work on core. If Mike hates working on core, then it is very good for Mike to stop working on core. We do not wish Mike to continue in a position he hates simply because he has the ability to do a good job at it. It's much better to let Mike do a good job at whatever it is that he enjoys doing. I think everyone is sorry that working on core has turned out so frustrating for Mike that it is no longer fun, but if the guy hates the job then by all means he should feel free to leave it. That's the right thing to do with a volunteer project. Mike the core member is dead -- but long live Mike the developer! -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 14:42: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821F437B403 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 14:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g48LfunG087172; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:41:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3CD97D9D.E4E734D5@mindspring.com> References: <3CD97D9D.E4E734D5@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:41:55 -0400 To: Terry Lambert , Ian From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Cc: freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:33 PM -0700 5/8/02, Terry Lambert wrote: >Ian wrote: > > Within the context of a given project (E.G., FreeBSD) > > someone's opinion on this matter may achieve the force > > of "a rule". Within the larger context of software > > engineering in general there is no rule, not even a > > concensus, on this issue. > >My opinion is *far far away* from the force of "a rule" >within the FreeBSD project. I think I can get a loud "amen" from the audience on that... :-) >However, I think that there is a general consensus >against promiscuous includes. In fact, FreeBSD recently did a pretty tedious and extensive cleanup of the system include libraries on freebsd-current, precisely to come closer to what the standards dictate for those libraries. And the standards do not like promiscuous include libraries (or whatever you might want to call it...). -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 15: 9: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mcqueen.wolfsburg.de (pns.wobline.de [212.68.68.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1459337B405 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from k6-2-300.tisys.org (ppp-306.wobline.de [212.68.71.27]) by mcqueen.wolfsburg.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/sh-2002041503) with ESMTP id g48M6lr22121; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:06:47 +0200 Received: from daemon.tisys.org (palomino-1533.tisys.org [192.168.0.3]) by k6-2-300.tisys.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g48M8Yo2000712; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:08:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nils@daemon.tisys.org) Received: (from nils@localhost) by daemon.tisys.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g48M7Ang012987; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:07:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 00:07:10 +0200 From: Nils Holland To: Coleman Kane Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Message-ID: <20020509000710.A12907@daemon.tisys.org> References: <4119.1020875350@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20020509073441.A5281@cs.waikato.ac.nz> <20020508170215.A15872@shell.one.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020508170215.A15872@shell.one.net>; from cokane@one.net on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:02:15PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD palomino-1533.tisys.org 4.6-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 4.6-PRERELEASE X-Machine-Uptime: 11:51PM up 14:42, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:02:15PM -0400, Coleman Kane stood up and spoke: > > Who knows, perhaps between Mike and Jordan leaving and the atmosphere that > surrounds all of this trouble, it may bring up leadership from some of the > younger community to actually do something real nice for the project. Well, being no FreeBSD developer or contributor, but rather a long-time FreeBSD user, I must say that I don't see it as alarming if some of the "old" people resign or at least decide to step back a bit. I guess this is perfectly normal - for projects like FreeBSD as much as for commercial companies. How "alive" FreeBSD is can not be dertemined by looking at how long a certain programmer / core member has been around, but only by looking at the popularity of FreeBSD amongst programmers, commiters, and end-users. And as such, FreeBSD seems to be alive and kicking. It's normal that people, after having been doing a certain thing for a long period of time, will at some time get bored, and start doing something else, either totally giving up the old thing, or at least cutting time they spend on it. This makes room for new faces, new ways of doing things, and new ideas. I find that if you reach a point where something you do is no fun anymore, something must be wrong, and you should probably draw the neccessary consequences. That's what Mike did. It's what I would have done if I were in his situation. So the bottom line is that even after the things that have happened here lately, I don't see FreeBSD as a project being in danger. All I see is the normal way of current people leaving and new people appearing. So, nothing to worry about, actually. Greetings Nils -- Nils Holland Ti Systems - http://www.tisys.org Addicted to computing since 1987 High on FreeBSD since 1996 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 15:15:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AE237B406 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g48MF6434801 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:15:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B3F38CC; Wed, 8 May 2002 15:15:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-Reply-To: <200205081029.g48AT0Z1013171@mass.dis.org> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:15:06 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020508221506.43B3F38CC@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Smith wrote: > When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years > ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of > debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many > rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project. > > Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD > project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old > going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the > same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it. > > FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right > way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when > the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was > something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an > endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and > worthwhile. > > It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and > milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. > It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead > the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they > think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole > has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed > with process and mechanics. Amen to that! Well said! Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 17:21:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF2D37B405; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.freebsd.org (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g490KY7W045186; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.freebsd.org) To: Coleman Kane Cc: Joerg Micheel , Sheldon Hearn , Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-Reply-To: Message from Coleman Kane of "Wed, 08 May 2002 17:02:15 EDT." <20020508170215.A15872@shell.one.net> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:20:34 -0700 Message-ID: <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyway, I don't really believe the whole 'FreeBSD is dead' crap that > has been circulating, with the quickly growing user base and the > increase in developer support this is a setback for the group, but > it will live on, at least as long as there is a significant > community backing it up. When we all vote for Core this time, it > will be for a new set of representatives for the group. Perhaps this > time it will bring together new faces and ideas for the future of > the project. I'm quite glad to hear you say that, frankly. I think that if FreeBSD is to succeed in the much longer-term, it needs to transcend its "old guard" beginnings and transition to being governed by a new and entirely more youthful set of folks, it perhaps being a maxim for the future that if you've been in core before then you don't qualify, no hard feelings or offense meant. Of course, I also expect the old guard to fight this tooth and nail with lots of dire predictions as to what will happen if anyone under 30 gets into core or why only a long and hoary track-record truly qualifies one for the job. As an old guardsman myself, I say ``bah!'' to that sort of self-serving "logic" since we've already proven over the last two rounds that experienced people are more than capable of making mistakes or being blind to all the relevant signs and portents when things are going off the rails. Even if it came with a penalty of inexperience and beginner's mistakes, I wouldn't mind the fresh energy and enthusiasm that a totally new slate would bring. It's not like those of us in 1992 were entirely blessed with loads of experience at doing this when we started and look what we managed to create. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 17:38:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web12802.mail.yahoo.com (web12802.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0513C37B40C for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020509003824.8679.qmail@web12802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.114.70.134] by web12802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 May 2002 17:38:24 PDT Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Hans Zaunere Subject: mount_null troubles To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sorry if this is off topic for this list, but there seems to be a bug. I've had a directory mounted with mount_null and things have been working great. However, now the directory appears empty (and not even a directory in some ways, ie ls -al doesn't even show . and ..) and I can't umount it. Even a umount -f only responds with "Invalid argument". Is there any way to fix this up without rebooting? I realize that in the mount_null man page, it says this feature is not recommended for use, and could be dangerous. However, I have been led to believe that in 4.5 (4.5 Release is what I'm running) it is stable. What is the status of this, as it is a great feature. Thanks, Hans __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 18:31:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 618) id 3402D37B408; Wed, 8 May 2002 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: configuring X on a vaio pcg-c1vp In-Reply-To: <20020508120250.J12891@dhcp117.mvista.com> from Neil Bliss at "May 8, 2002 12:02:50 pm" To: nbliss@mvista.com (Neil Bliss) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020509013125.3402D37B408@hub.freebsd.org> From: wpaul@FreeBSD.ORG (Bill Paul) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hey folks, > > Does anyone have any pointers or advice for getting X running on my sony vaio > pcg-c1vp picturebook? > > thanks, Yes. As a matter of fact, that's exactly the same model as the one I have. I'm running FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE on it with XFree86 4.1.0. It uses the ati driver. I'm including a copy of my XF86Config file at the end of this e-mail. It will give you a 1024x480 display with 24 bit color. XFree86 4.1.0 likes it out of the box, but you have to create a custom mode line for the odd-sized display. I spent a couple of hours experimenting until I finally found a set of numbers that worked. NOTE: I strongly suggest installing the GATOS ati driver from gatos.sourceforge.net. This will allow you to use the Xvideo extension with the ATI Mobility chipset in the Picturebook, which is handy for things like mplayer. As an added bonus, you can also find a utility to use the built-in camera here: http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/capture_freebsd.tar.gz This is the Linux capture utility, ported to FreeBSD by me. (Yes, I know there's already a port of this in ports. I like mine better.) I use this along with the picturebook as my webcam: http://www.magnesium.net/~wpaul/billcam The archive include just the source code. You need to have XFree86 and Imlib to compile it. -Bill ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (510) 749-2329 | Senior Engineer, Master of Unix-Fu wpaul@windriver.com | Wind River Systems ============================================================================= God was my co-pilot, until we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him. ============================================================================= Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "XFree86 Configured" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "Files" RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" ModulePath "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" EndSection Section "Module" Load "dbe" Load "dri" Load "extmod" Load "glx" Load "pex5" Load "record" Load "xie" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "keyboard" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Device" "/dev/psm0" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "Monitor Model" HorizSync 33.5 #HorizSync 30-50 #VertRefresh 66 #VertRefresh 50-90 #ModeLine "1024x480" 42.4 1024 1048 1208 1264 480 485 487 522 #ModeLine "1024x480" 42.41 1024 1048 1208 1264 480 482 484 516 -hsync -vsync #ModeLine "1024x480" 42.41 1024 1048 1208 1264 480 480 482 517 -hsync -vsync #ModeLine "1024x480" 42.41 1024 1048 1208 1264 480 480 482 517 -hsync -vsync ModeLine "1024x480" 42.41 1024 1048 1208 1264 480 480 481 555 -hsync -vsync EndSection Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: : integer, : float, : "True"/"False", ### : "String", : " Hz/kHz/MHz" ### [arg]: arg optional #Option "accel" # [] #Option "crt_screen" # [] #Option "composite_sync" # [] #Option "hw_cursor" # [] #Option "linear" # [] #Option "mmio_cache" # [] #Option "probe_clocks" # [] #Option "reference_clock" # #Option "shadow_fb" # [] #Option "sw_cursor" # [] Identifier "Card0" Driver "ati" VendorName "ATI" BoardName "Mach64 LR" ChipSet "ati" ChipId 0x4c52 ChipRev 0x64 BusID "PCI:0:13:0" Option "probe_clocks" "False" Option "reference_clock" "33Mhz" # Option "crt_screen" "True" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 1 Modes "1024x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 4 Modes "1024x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1024x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "1024x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1024x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1024x480" EndSubSection EndSection To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 18:49:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bastion2.act.csiro.au (bastion2.act.csiro.au [152.83.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB82F37B408 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 18:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bastion2.act.csiro.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bastion2.act.csiro.au (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g491n6521770 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:49:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from hermes.la.csiro.au (hermes.la.csiro.au [152.83.12.2]) by bastion2.act.csiro.au (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g491n5821761 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:49:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by hermes.la.csiro.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:49:04 +1000 Message-ID: <4ABEF4D887D40745B8D6804C2FFA939F1A75FF@hermes.la.csiro.au> From: Anthony.Wyatt@csiro.au To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:48:59 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, A whole bunch of things went through my mind as I read this thread, and I was going to write an essay, but it sounds like there's already a lot of this going on, so I'll just summarise: * I work for a research organisation. * For researchers to be productive they must have as much flexibility as possible * Too much process, and no one researches anything, they only have time to rehash. * I see FreeBSD as a research project * It is full of researchers, pushing technology in new and exciting ways * It has no commercial drivers demanding a larger market share. I have no real insight into how FreeBSD runs, but it sounds like an over burdening processes has be installed. If this is the case, then I also suspect that there has been more processes built over the top of these, in hopes that they will address the problems they initially caused. 2c from a dedicated FreeBSDer, Anthony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 20:39: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail8.nc.rr.com (fe8.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CA437B409; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i8k.babbleon.org ([66.57.86.84]) by mail8.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Wed, 8 May 2002 22:37:15 -0400 Received: by i8k.babbleon.org (Postfix, from userid 111) id 00881BB29; Wed, 8 May 2002 22:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Brian T.Schellenberger To: Jordan Hubbard , Coleman Kane Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:37:08 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] Cc: Joerg Micheel , Sheldon Hearn , Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020509023708.00881BB29@i8k.babbleon.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I for one would hope that there would neither be a wholesale turnover, becuase experience is a valuable teacher; nor ossification, because new blood brings in fresh energy and ideas. Having people drop out when it's not fun anymore seems about right, as long as there is some effort to replace those who drop out with those who will counterbalance the loss and not pounce on it as a chance to pad out membership with the qualities already prevelent among those who would be the "winners" if it were a purge. Thus, it would be best to replace Mike with somebody as ANTI-process as possible since an over-reliance on process is what drove him from core; if somebody resigns due to an overly chaotic environment, then adding somebody as PRO-process as possible would probably be called for. Not sure if that makes any sense to anybody else, and naturally I have no right to talk since I've never contributed much, blah blah blah. On Wednesday 08 May 2002 08:20 pm, Jordan Hubbard wrote: | > Anyway, I don't really believe the whole 'FreeBSD is dead' crap that | > has been circulating, with the quickly growing user base and the | > increase in developer support this is a setback for the group, but | > it will live on, at least as long as there is a significant | > community backing it up. When we all vote for Core this time, it | > will be for a new set of representatives for the group. Perhaps this | > time it will bring together new faces and ideas for the future of | > the project. | | I'm quite glad to hear you say that, frankly. I think that if FreeBSD | is to succeed in the much longer-term, it needs to transcend its "old | guard" beginnings and transition to being governed by a new and | entirely more youthful set of folks, it perhaps being a maxim for the | future that if you've been in core before then you don't qualify, no | hard feelings or offense meant. | | Of course, I also expect the old guard to fight this tooth and nail | with lots of dire predictions as to what will happen if anyone under | 30 gets into core or why only a long and hoary track-record truly | qualifies one for the job. As an old guardsman myself, I say ``bah!'' | to that sort of self-serving "logic" since we've already proven over | the last two rounds that experienced people are more than capable of | making mistakes or being blind to all the relevant signs and portents | when things are going off the rails. Even if it came with a penalty | of inexperience and beginner's mistakes, I wouldn't mind the fresh | energy and enthusiasm that a totally new slate would bring. It's not | like those of us in 1992 were entirely blessed with loads of | experience at doing this when we started and look what we managed to | create. | | - Jordan | | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org | with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work) Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal) http://www.babbleon.org http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org If you smell the smoke you don't need to be told what you've got to do; Yet there's a certain breed, so very in-between, they'd rather take a vote. -- DEVO -- Here To Go To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 20:42:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from parhelion.firedrake.org (parhelion.firedrake.org [212.135.138.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7B337B407 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from float by parhelion.firedrake.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 175ep6-0002Pn-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 04:42:32 +0100 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 04:42:32 +0100 To: Anthony.Wyatt@csiro.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Message-ID: <20020509034231.GA9051@parhelion.firedrake.org> References: <4ABEF4D887D40745B8D6804C2FFA939F1A75FF@hermes.la.csiro.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4ABEF4D887D40745B8D6804C2FFA939F1A75FF@hermes.la.csiro.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i From: void Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD is a research project, but it's also a production-quality operating system. It is important that it be "loose" enough to keep hackers interested, but it is also important that it be managed carefully enough that companies like Yahoo (which employs at least one core team member, if I'm not mistaken) can continue to depend on it. I think that the successful management of the tension between these goals has a lot to do with why FreeBSD is so useful and interesting. I guess that these conflicting goals also have a lot to do with the conflicts within core that Mike alluded to. Just my two cents, I hope no one takes offense. I think flamage on this thread is pretty inappropriate and I'd like to respectfully ask everyone to keep things civil, even if only on this thread. -- Ben "An art scene of delight I created this to be ..." -- Sun Ra To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 20:44:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tinker.exit.com (tinker.exit.com [206.223.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42BFF37B407; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from realtime.exit.com (realtime [206.223.0.5]) by tinker.exit.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g493hWwx054117; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:43:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from realtime.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by realtime.exit.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g493hVxA055646; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@realtime.exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by realtime.exit.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g493hVGl055641; Wed, 8 May 2002 20:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Mayhar Message-Id: <200205090343.g493hVGl055641@realtime.exit.com> Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-Reply-To: <20020509023708.00881BB29@i8k.babbleon.org> To: "Brian T.Schellenberger" Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 20:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Jordan Hubbard , Coleman Kane , Joerg Micheel , Sheldon Hearn , Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: frank@exit.com Organization: Exit Consulting X-Copyright0: Copyright 2002 Frank Mayhar. All Rights Reserved. X-Copyright1: Permission granted for electronic reproduction as Usenet News or email only. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL95a (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian T.Schellenberger wrote: > Thus, it would be best to replace Mike with somebody as ANTI-process as > possible since an over-reliance on process is what drove him from core; if > somebody resigns due to an overly chaotic environment, then adding somebody > as PRO-process as possible would probably be called for. Worth reading again, so I left it. > Not sure if that makes any sense to anybody else, and naturally I have no > right to talk since I've never contributed much, blah blah blah. It makes perfect sense to me. As good a contributor as Mike has been, I'm sorry to see him go but I certainly understand his reasons. Honestly, were it me, I wouldn't have stuck it out as long as he did. Certainly FreeBSD will continue without him, just as it has done without all the other folks who have left over the years. But it does make a lot of sense to try to replace him with someone who is both fresh and anti-process. Balance. Gotta keep people on both ends of that tug-of-war. :-) -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 21: 2:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail16.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F246937B408 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 21:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10983 invoked from network); 9 May 2002 04:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail16.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 9 May 2002 04:02:40 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (laptop.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.4]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4942eF36397; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:02:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20020509034231.GA9051@parhelion.firedrake.org> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 00:02:38 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: void Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Anthony.Wyatt@csiro.au Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 09-May-2002 void wrote: > FreeBSD is a research project, but it's also a production-quality > operating system. It is important that it be "loose" enough to keep > hackers interested, but it is also important that it be managed carefully > enough that companies like Yahoo (which employs at least one core team > member, if I'm not mistaken) can continue to depend on it. > > I think that the successful management of the tension between these > goals has a lot to do with why FreeBSD is so useful and interesting. > I guess that these conflicting goals also have a lot to do with the > conflicts within core that Mike alluded to. > > Just my two cents, I hope no one takes offense. I think flamage on this > thread is pretty inappropriate and I'd like to respectfully ask everyone > to keep things civil, even if only on this thread. Another thing to keep in mind is that FreeBSD has some 300 odd "researchers" working on it, and that's not counting the folks who put in time to work on it but just don't have a commit bit for some reason or another. At a certain point things don't scale and you need some sort of structure. Of course, you want to minimize the amount of structure so you can keep out of people's way when possible. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 21: 4:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailgate.originative.com (mailgate.originative.com [195.149.39.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E76437B404 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 21:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lobster.originative.co.uk (lobster.originative.co.uk [62.232.68.81]) by mailgate.originative.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D321B24F; Thu, 9 May 2002 05:04:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) From: Paul Richards To: void Cc: Anthony.Wyatt@csiro.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20020509034231.GA9051@parhelion.firedrake.org> References: <4ABEF4D887D40745B8D6804C2FFA939F1A75FF@hermes.la.csiro.au> <20020509034231.GA9051@parhelion.firedrake.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 09 May 2002 05:04:43 +0100 Message-Id: <1020917084.15680.19.camel@lobster.originative.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 2002-05-09 at 05:42, void wrote: > FreeBSD is a research project, but it's also a production-quality > operating system. It is important that it be "loose" enough to keep > hackers interested, but it is also important that it be managed carefully > enough that companies like Yahoo (which employs at least one core team > member, if I'm not mistaken) can continue to depend on it. > > I think that the successful management of the tension between these > goals has a lot to do with why FreeBSD is so useful and interesting. > I guess that these conflicting goals also have a lot to do with the > conflicts within core that Mike alluded to. I think that's pretty close to the truth of it. The project is torn between the anarchical desires of those who just want to hack code with the aim of just having fun by doing cool stuff, and those who see it as a product and want to impose more management on what happens in order to protect the integrity of the product from release to release. Whatever solution the project adopts needs to balance these two desires somehow or another. -- Paul Richards | FreeBSD DVD releases and merchandise. FreeBSD Services Ltd | Hardware, support and development. http://www.freebsd-services.com | Domain names and mail/web hosting. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 22:46:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.143.238.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A795737B498 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 22:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 82006 invoked by uid 1001); 9 May 2002 15:45:59 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.26 06-May-2002 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Uptime: 119 days, 22:03 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Message-Id: Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:45:59 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Ian Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: In-reply-to: of Wed, 08 May 2002 13:09:14 CST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ian Noname wrote: | > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". | | Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and | differing opinions exist. There's no shortage of opinions. They are like arseholes: everybody has one. But there are rules that have been carefully worked out by people who have put a lot of time into them, and those rules are documented in the man pages for each interface in the system. A programmer who can read can get this stuff right without even rasing a sweat. | My opinion is that if a given header file requires some aspect of another | interface, that header should (nay, MUST) include what it needs for itself, | rather than relying on something external to "do the right thing". Why | require thousands of programmers to remember all these interdependancies as | opposed to one programmer encoding the depenancy once where it belongs and | then everyone else can get on with their life and get some real coding done. Why require programmers to learn their craft? Why ask them to waste their precious time gaining basic proficiency? Why expect them to bother to read the fine manuals for the interfaces they feel inclined to use? Get a grip -- programmers ought to be competent at this stuff, especially when it must be just about the simplest thing they need to learn. | Programmer since 1972 | C programmer since 1985 Not yet a C programmer if the above is the best you can do. | Demagogue since... well, as long as I can remember. :-) No comment. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 22:59:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.nc.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9E537B40C for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i8k.babbleon.org ([66.57.86.84]) by mail5.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 9 May 2002 01:58:53 -0400 Received: by i8k.babbleon.org (Postfix, from userid 111) id 5BA03BB29; Thu, 9 May 2002 01:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Brian T.Schellenberger To: Greg Black , Ian Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 01:58:50 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] Cc: freebsd-hackers References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020509055851.5BA03BB29@i8k.babbleon.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday 09 May 2002 01:45 am, Greg Black wrote: | Ian Noname wrote: | | > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". | | | | Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and | | differing opinions exist. | | There's no shortage of opinions. They are like arseholes: | everybody has one. But there are rules that have been carefully | worked out by people who have put a lot of time into them, and | those rules are documented in the man pages for each interface | in the system. A programmer who can read can get this stuff | right without even rasing a sweat. | | | My opinion is that if a given header file requires some aspect of another | | interface, that header should (nay, MUST) include what it needs for | | itself, rather than relying on something external to "do the right | | thing". Why require thousands of programmers to remember all these | | interdependancies as opposed to one programmer encoding the depenancy | | once where it belongs and then everyone else can get on with their life | | and get some real coding done. | | Why require programmers to learn their craft? Why ask them to | waste their precious time gaining basic proficiency? Why expect | them to bother to read the fine manuals for the interfaces they | feel inclined to use? Get a grip -- programmers ought to be | competent at this stuff, especially when it must be just about | the simplest thing they need to learn. I've always thought that the sensible rule was: - If the h file uses some other h file structure *internally* but doesn't expose it to the user, it should include it itself, but - If the user will be using another interface that's "below" this one, then the user should include it. That way the .c program has #includes that reflect the interfaces that it uses, no more and no fewer. Surely that's sensible. **BUT** this is beside the point. When working with code withing a particular project (such as FreeBSD), you should conform to its conventions, not the other way 'round. For example, it is obvious to any sensible observer that the terminating curly braces should be lined up with the *nested* code. But the other folks I work with mostly don't see it that way, so I do it the other way because, really, consistency in such matters is more important than whether it meets a personal test for perfection. This is a general property of collaboration: comprimises and consensus are a very important part of making it possible. | | | Programmer since 1972 | | C programmer since 1985 | | Not yet a C programmer if the above is the best you can do. | | | Demagogue since... well, as long as I can remember. :-) | | No comment. | | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org | with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work) Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal) http://www.babbleon.org http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org If you smell the smoke you don't need to be told what you've got to do; Yet there's a certain breed, so very in-between, they'd rather take a vote. -- DEVO -- Here To Go To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 8 23:16:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136B837B409 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 23:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.freebsd.org (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g496G67W045833; Wed, 8 May 2002 23:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@winston.freebsd.org) To: "Brian T.Schellenberger" Cc: Coleman Kane , Joerg Micheel , Sheldon Hearn , Robert Watson , Michael Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-Reply-To: Message from "Brian T.Schellenberger" of "Wed, 08 May 2002 22:37:08 EDT." <20020509023708.00881BB29@i8k.babbleon.org> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 23:16:06 -0700 Message-ID: <45832.1020924966@winston.freebsd.org> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, I for one would hope that there would neither be a wholesale turnover, > becuase experience is a valuable teacher; nor ossification, because new blood > brings in fresh energy and ideas. Well, given that this is now a democracy, I guess that's all for the committers to decide. I've merely spoken my piece regarding what I hope they'll choose and what I'll certainly be biased in favor of when presented with the next slate for election. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 0:51:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C1B37B404 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g497g6O50306; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 5855811E511; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F5311A572; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 00:51:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: nextboot loader diff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="430705419-43853349-1020930086=:558" Content-ID: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --430705419-43853349-1020930086=:558 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: I've finally learned enough forth to put together a diff to implement some nextboot functionality in the loader. Basically, the loader peeks into the first line of /boot/nextboot.conf to see if nextboot_enable="YES" is there. If it is, it reads the entire config, then rewrites the first line to nextboot_enable="NO" The difference between this code and Wes Peters' is that this will rewrite the /boot/nextboot.conf so that if you boot a kernel and it hangs before entering multi-user, upon the machine resetting, it will then restore back to the original settings and (hopefully) come back up on a known good kernel. This should make it easier to test out kernels on machines that you don't have console access to. There is a quick shell script called nextboot to manage the /boot/nextboot.conf file and let's you set 2 common loader arguments. It was a quick hack and probably needs to be cleaned up before a commit. To use the patch: cd /usr/src patch < /path/to/patch cd /usr/src/sbin/reboot make all install cd /usr/src/sys/boot make install Let me know what you think. -gordon --430705419-43853349-1020930086=:558 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME="nextboot.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: ATTACHMENT; FILENAME="nextboot.diff" LS0tIHNiaW4vcmVib290L01ha2VmaWxlLm9yaWcJVGh1IE1heSAgOSAwMDoz MToyMSAyMDAyDQorKysgc2Jpbi9yZWJvb3QvTWFrZWZpbGUJVGh1IE1heSAg OSAwMDozMDoyMSAyMDAyDQpAQCAtMTQsNCArMTQsNiBAQA0KIExJTktTPQkk e0JJTkRJUn0vcmVib290ICR7QklORElSfS9oYWx0ICR7QklORElSfS9yZWJv b3QgJHtCSU5ESVJ9L2Zhc3Rib290IFwNCiAJJHtCSU5ESVJ9L3JlYm9vdCAk e0JJTkRJUn0vZmFzdGhhbHQNCiANCitTQ1JJUFRTPQluZXh0Ym9vdA0KKw0K IC5pbmNsdWRlIDxic2QucHJvZy5taz4NCi0tLSAvZGV2L251bGwJVGh1IE1h eSAgOSAwMDoyMjowMCAyMDAyDQorKysgc2Jpbi9yZWJvb3QvbmV4dGJvb3Qu c2gJVGh1IE1heSAgOSAwMDoxNTo0NyAyMDAyDQpAQCAtMCwwICsxLDU2IEBA DQorIyEgL2Jpbi9zaA0KKyMNCisjIENvcHlyaWdodCAyMDAyLiBHb3Jkb24g VGV0bG93LiBBbGwgcmlnaHRzIHJlc2VydmVkLg0KKyMNCisjICRGcmVlQlNE JA0KKw0KK2RlbGV0ZT0iTk8iDQorZm9yY2U9Ik5PIg0KK25leHRib290X2Zp bGU9Ii9ib290L25leHRib290LmNvbmYiDQorDQorZGlzcGxheV91c2FnZSgp IHsNCisJZWNobyAiVXNhZ2U6IG5leHRib290IFstZl0gWy1vIG9wdGlvbnNd IC1rIGtlcm5lbCINCisJZWNobyAiICAgICAgIG5leHRib290IC1EIg0KK30N CisNCit3aGlsZSBnZXRvcHRzICJEZms6bzoiIGFyZ3VtZW50IDsgZG8NCisJ Y2FzZSAiJHthcmd1bWVudH0iIGluDQorCUQpDQorCQlkZWxldGU9IllFUyIN CisJCTs7DQorCWYpDQorCQlmb3JjZT0iWUVTIg0KKwkJOzsNCisJaykNCisJ CWtlcm5lbD0iJHtPUFRBUkd9Ig0KKwkJOzsNCisJbykNCisJCWtlcm5lbF9v cHRpb25zPSIke09QVEFSR30iDQorCQk7Ow0KKwkqKQ0KKwkJZGlzcGxheV91 c2FnZQ0KKwkJZXhpdCAxDQorCQk7Ow0KKwllc2FjDQorZG9uZQ0KKw0KK2lm IFsgJHtkZWxldGV9ID0gIllFUyIgXTsgdGhlbg0KKwlybSAtZiAke25leHRi b290X2ZpbGV9DQorCWV4aXQgMA0KK2ZpDQorDQoraWYgWyAieHh4JHtrZXJu ZWx9IiA9ICJ4eHgiIF07IHRoZW4NCisJZGlzcGxheV91c2FnZQ0KKwlleGl0 IDENCitmaQ0KKw0KK2lmIFsgJHtmb3JjZX0gPSAiTk8iIC1hICEgLWQgL2Jv b3QvJHtrZXJuZWx9IF07IHRoZW4NCisJZWNobyAiRXJyb3I6IC9ib290LyR7 a2VybmVsfSBkb2Vzbid0IGV4aXN0LiBVc2UgLWYgdG8gb3ZlcnJpZGUuIg0K KwlleGl0IDENCitmaQ0KKw0KK2NhdCA+ICR7bmV4dGJvb3RfZmlsZX0gPDwg RU9GDQorbmV4dGJvb3RfZW5hYmxlPSJZRVMiDQora2VybmVsPSIke2tlcm5l bH0iDQora2VybmVsX29wdGlvbnM9IiR7a2VybmVsX29wdGlvbnN9Ig0KK0VP Rg0KLS0tIHN5cy9ib290L2ZvcnRoL2xvYWRlci40dGgub3JpZwlTdW4gRGVj IDE2IDAwOjQ0OjQwIDIwMDENCisrKyBzeXMvYm9vdC9mb3J0aC9sb2FkZXIu NHRoCVdlZCBNYXkgIDggMjI6MDI6MzYgMjAwMg0KQEAgLTEzNCw2ICsxMzQs NyBAQA0KIDogc3RhcnQgICggLS0gKSAoIHRocm93czogYWJvcnQgJiB1c2Vy LWRlZmluZWQgKQ0KICAgcyIgL2Jvb3QvZGVmYXVsdHMvbG9hZGVyLmNvbmYi IGluaXRpYWxpemUNCiAgIGluY2x1ZGVfY29uZl9maWxlcw0KKyAgaW5jbHVk ZV9uZXh0Ym9vdF9maWxlDQogICBcIFdpbGwgKk5PVCogdHJ5IHRvIGxvYWQg a2VybmVsIGFuZCBtb2R1bGVzIGlmIG5vIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gZmlsZQ0K ICAgXCB3YXMgc3VjY2VzZnVsbHkgbG9hZGVkIQ0KICAgYW55X2NvbmZfcmVh ZD8gaWYNCkBAIC0xNTEsNiArMTUyLDcgQEANCiA6IGluaXRpYWxpemUgKCAt LSBmbGFnICkNCiAgIHMiIC9ib290L2RlZmF1bHRzL2xvYWRlci5jb25mIiBp bml0aWFsaXplDQogICBpbmNsdWRlX2NvbmZfZmlsZXMNCisgIGluY2x1ZGVf bmV4dGJvb3RfZmlsZQ0KICAgYW55X2NvbmZfcmVhZD8NCiA7DQogDQotLS0g c3lzL2Jvb3QvZm9ydGgvbG9hZGVyLmNvbmYub3JpZwlUdWUgQXByIDMwIDIy OjQ0OjUyIDIwMDINCisrKyBzeXMvYm9vdC9mb3J0aC9sb2FkZXIuY29uZglX ZWQgTWF5ICA4IDIzOjExOjE2IDIwMDINCkBAIC0yMiw3ICsyMiw5IEBADQog dXNlcmNvbmZpZ19zY3JpcHRfbmFtZT0iL2Jvb3Qva2VybmVsLmNvbmYiDQog dXNlcmNvbmZpZ19zY3JpcHRfdHlwZT0idXNlcmNvbmZpZ19zY3JpcHQiDQog DQotbG9hZGVyX2NvbmZfZmlsZXM9Ii9ib290L2RldmljZS5oaW50cyAvYm9v dC9sb2FkZXIuY29uZiAvYm9vdC9sb2FkZXIuY29uZi5sb2NhbCAvYm9vdC9u ZXh0Ym9vdC5jb25mIg0KK2xvYWRlcl9jb25mX2ZpbGVzPSIvYm9vdC9kZXZp Y2UuaGludHMgL2Jvb3QvbG9hZGVyLmNvbmYgL2Jvb3QvbG9hZGVyLmNvbmYu bG9jYWwiDQorbmV4dGJvb3RfY29uZj0iL2Jvb3QvbmV4dGJvb3QuY29uZiIN CituZXh0Ym9vdF9lbmFibGU9Ik5PIg0KIA0KIHZlcmJvc2VfbG9hZGluZz0i Tk8iCQkjIFNldCB0byBZRVMgZm9yIHZlcmJvc2UgbG9hZGVyIG91dHB1dA0K IA0KLS0tIHN5cy9ib290L2ZvcnRoL3N1cHBvcnQuNHRoLm9yaWcJU3VuIERl YyAxNiAwMDo0NDo0MSAyMDAxDQorKysgc3lzL2Jvb3QvZm9ydGgvc3VwcG9y dC40dGgJV2VkIE1heSAgOCAyMzowNzo1NyAyMDAyDQpAQCAtMjA4LDEwICsy MDgsMTIgQEANCiBcIEdsb2JhbCB2YXJpYWJsZXMNCiANCiBzdHJpbmcgY29u Zl9maWxlcw0KK3N0cmluZyBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mX2ZpbGUNCiBzdHJpbmcg cGFzc3dvcmQNCiBjcmVhdGUgbW9kdWxlX29wdGlvbnMgc2l6ZW9mIG1vZHVs ZS5uZXh0IGFsbG90IDAgbW9kdWxlX29wdGlvbnMgIQ0KIGNyZWF0ZSBsYXN0 X21vZHVsZV9vcHRpb24gc2l6ZW9mIG1vZHVsZS5uZXh0IGFsbG90IDAgbGFz dF9tb2R1bGVfb3B0aW9uICENCiAwIHZhbHVlIHZlcmJvc2U/DQorMCB2YWx1 ZSBuZXh0Ym9vdD8NCiANCiBcIFN1cHBvcnQgc3RyaW5nIGZ1bmN0aW9ucw0K IA0KQEAgLTY2MCw2ICs2NjIsMTQgQEANCiAgIHMiIGxvYWRlcl9jb25mX2Zp bGVzIiBhc3NpZ25tZW50X3R5cGU/DQogOw0KIA0KKzogbmV4dGJvb3RfZmxh Zz8NCisgIHMiIG5leHRib290X2VuYWJsZSIgYXNzaWdubWVudF90eXBlPw0K KzsNCisNCis6IG5leHRib290X2NvbmY/DQorICBzIiBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25m IiBhc3NpZ25tZW50X3R5cGU/DQorOw0KKw0KIDogdmVyYm9zZV9mbGFnPw0K ICAgcyIgdmVyYm9zZV9sb2FkaW5nIiBhc3NpZ25tZW50X3R5cGU/DQogOw0K QEAgLTcxMyw2ICs3MjMsMTkgQEANCiAgIGNvbmZfZmlsZXMgLmxlbiAhIGNv bmZfZmlsZXMgLmFkZHIgIQ0KIDsNCiANCis6IHNldF9uZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25m DQorICBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mX2ZpbGUgLmFkZHIgQCA/ZHVwIGlmDQorICAg IGZyZWUtbWVtb3J5DQorICB0aGVuDQorICB2YWx1ZV9idWZmZXIgLmFkZHIg QCBjQCBbY2hhcl0gIiA9IGlmDQorICAgIHZhbHVlX2J1ZmZlciAuYWRkciBA IGNoYXIrIHZhbHVlX2J1ZmZlciAubGVuIEAgMiBjaGFycyAtDQorICBlbHNl DQorICAgIHZhbHVlX2J1ZmZlciAuYWRkciBAIHZhbHVlX2J1ZmZlciAubGVu IEANCisgIHRoZW4NCisgIHN0cmR1cA0KKyAgbmV4dGJvb3RfY29uZl9maWxl IC5sZW4gISBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mX2ZpbGUgLmFkZHIgIQ0KKzsNCisNCiA6 IGFwcGVuZF90b19tb2R1bGVfb3B0aW9uc19saXN0ICAoIGFkZHIgLS0gKQ0K ICAgbW9kdWxlX29wdGlvbnMgQCAwPSBpZg0KICAgICBkdXAgbW9kdWxlX29w dGlvbnMgIQ0KQEAgLTg2Myw2ICs4ODYsMTAgQEANCiAgIHRoZW4NCiA7DQog DQorOiBzZXRfbmV4dGJvb3RfZmxhZw0KKyAgeWVzX3ZhbHVlPyB0byBuZXh0 Ym9vdD8NCis7DQorDQogOiBzZXRfdmVyYm9zZQ0KICAgeWVzX3ZhbHVlPyB0 byB2ZXJib3NlPw0KIDsNCkBAIC04OTAsNiArOTE3LDggQEANCiA6IHByb2Nl c3NfYXNzaWdubWVudA0KICAgbmFtZV9idWZmZXIgLmxlbiBAIDA9IGlmIGV4 aXQgdGhlbg0KICAgbG9hZGVyX2NvbmZfZmlsZXM/CWlmIHNldF9jb25mX2Zp bGVzIGV4aXQgdGhlbg0KKyAgbmV4dGJvb3RfZmxhZz8JaWYgc2V0X25leHRi b290X2ZsYWcgZXhpdCB0aGVuDQorICBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mPwlpZiBzZXRf bmV4dGJvb3RfY29uZiBleGl0IHRoZW4NCiAgIHZlcmJvc2VfZmxhZz8JCWlm IHNldF92ZXJib3NlIGV4aXQgdGhlbg0KICAgZXhlY3V0ZT8JCWlmIGV4ZWN1 dGVfY29tbWFuZCBleGl0IHRoZW4NCiAgIHBhc3N3b3JkPwkJaWYgc2V0X3Bh c3N3b3JkIGV4aXQgdGhlbg0KQEAgLTkyMiw2ICs5NTEsMTAgQEANCiAgIDAg dmFsdWVfYnVmZmVyIC5sZW4gIQ0KIDsNCiANCis6IGdldF9uZXh0Ym9vdF9j b25mX2ZpbGUgKCAtLSBhZGRyIGxlbiApDQorICBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mX2Zp bGUgLmFkZHIgQCBuZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mX2ZpbGUgLmxlbiBAIHN0cmR1cA0K KzsNCisNCiBcIEhpZ2hlciBsZXZlbCBmaWxlIHByb2Nlc3NpbmcNCiANCiBz dXBwb3J0LWZ1bmN0aW9ucyBkZWZpbml0aW9ucw0KQEAgLTkzOSw2ICs5NzIs MjAgQEANCiAgIHJlcGVhdA0KIDsNCiANCis6IHBlZWtfbmV4dGJvb3RfZmls ZQ0KKyAgZ2V0X25leHRib290X2NvbmZfZmlsZQ0KKyAgMCB0byBlbmRfb2Zf ZmlsZT8NCisgIHJlc2V0X2xpbmVfcmVhZGluZw0KKyAgT19SRE9OTFkgZm9w ZW4gZmQgIQ0KKyAgZmQgQCAtMSA9IGlmIG9wZW5fZXJyb3IgdGhyb3cgdGhl bg0KKyAgcmVzZXRfYXNzaWdubWVudF9idWZmZXJzDQorICByZWFkX2xpbmUN CisgIGdldF9hc3NpZ25tZW50DQorICBbJ10gcHJvY2Vzc19hc3NpZ25tZW50 IGNhdGNoDQorICBbJ10gZnJlZV9idWZmZXJzIGNhdGNoDQorICBmZCBAIGZj bG9zZQ0KKzsNCisgIA0KIG9ubHkgZm9ydGggYWxzbyBzdXBwb3J0LWZ1bmN0 aW9ucyBkZWZpbml0aW9ucw0KIA0KIFwgSW50ZXJmYWNlIHRvIGxvYWRpbmcg Y29uZiBmaWxlcw0KQEAgLTEwOTksNiArMTE0NiwyOCBAQA0KICAgICBwcm9j ZXNzX2NvbmZfZXJyb3JzDQogICAgIHJlY3Vyc2Vfb25fY29uZl9maWxlcz8g aWYgcmVjdXJzZSB0aGVuDQogICByZXBlYXQNCis7DQorDQorOiBnZXRfbmV4 dGJvb3RfY29uZl9maWxlICggLS0gYWRkciBsZW4gKQ0KKyAgbmV4dGJvb3Rf Y29uZl9maWxlIC5hZGRyIEAgbmV4dGJvb3RfY29uZl9maWxlIC5sZW4gQCBz dHJkdXANCis7DQorDQorOiByZXdyaXRlX25leHRib290X2ZpbGUgKCAtLSAp DQorICBnZXRfbmV4dGJvb3RfY29uZl9maWxlDQorICBPX1dST05MWSBmb3Bl biBmZCAhDQorICBmZCBAIC0xID0gaWYgb3Blbl9lcnJvciB0aHJvdyB0aGVu DQorICBmZCBAIHMnIG5leHRib290X2VuYWJsZT0iTk8iICcgZndyaXRlDQor ICBmZCBAIGZjbG9zZQ0KKzsNCisNCis6IGluY2x1ZGVfbmV4dGJvb3RfZmls ZQ0KKyAgWyddIHBlZWtfbmV4dGJvb3RfZmlsZSBjYXRjaA0KKyAgbmV4dGJv b3Q/IGlmDQorICAgIGdldF9uZXh0Ym9vdF9jb25mX2ZpbGUNCisgICAgWydd IGxvYWRfY29uZiBjYXRjaA0KKyAgICBwcm9jZXNzX2NvbmZfZXJyb3JzDQor ICAgIFsnXSByZXdyaXRlX25leHRib290X2ZpbGUgY2F0Y2gNCisgIHRoZW4N CiA7DQogDQogXCBNb2R1bGUgbG9hZGluZyBmdW5jdGlvbnMNCg== --430705419-43853349-1020930086=:558-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 1:52: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from HAL9000.wox.org (12-232-222-90.client.attbi.com [12.232.222.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F7037B404 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 01:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.wox.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g498qTY36201; Thu, 9 May 2002 01:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 01:52:29 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Terry Lambert Cc: aaron , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Message-ID: <20020509015229.A36156@HAL9000.wox.org> Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , aaron , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200205071814.46995.aaron@lo-res.org> <200205071937.20043.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD8B8D3.F605B84B@mindspring.com> <200205081449.12733.aaron@lo-res.org> <3CD9727B.B53067A4@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CD9727B.B53067A4@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 11:46:19AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Terry Lambert : > OS's that have promiscuous includes (e.g. "if you include stdio.h, > everything else gets included for you") enable bad code to be > written unknowingly, by programmers who fail to remember the interface > requirements from the manual pages (or fail to check them when they > don't remember, and rely on the compiler to tell them when they are > missing an include file, so they can go read the manual page to find > out which include file is missing). What these programmers should really be doing is writing in a language that uses a more rigorous naming convention, or one that gives programmers more control over the namespace(s). Java is the only ``popular'' language I know of that does this fairly well, so it's too bad that the rest of Java sucks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 2:30: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from postoffice.aims.com.au (eth0.lnk.aims.com.au [203.31.73.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B92637B419 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 02:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.aims.com.au (nts-ts1.aims.private [192.168.10.2]) by postoffice.aims.com.au with ESMTP id g499Tpd13320 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 19:29:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from chris@aims.com.au) Received: from ntsts1 by aims.com.au with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.5.3.R) for ; Thu, 09 May 2002 19:29:06 +1000 Reply-To: From: "Chris Knight" To: Cc: Subject: RE: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 19:29:04 +1000 Message-ID: <033901c1f73b$f6dca130$020aa8c0@aims.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> Importance: Normal X-Return-Path: chris@aims.com.au X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy, > Of course, I also expect the old guard to fight this tooth and nail > with lots of dire predictions as to what will happen if anyone under > 30 gets into core or why only a long and hoary track-record truly > qualifies one for the job. As an old guardsman myself, I say ``bah!'' Really? I was under the impression that beards and felines were on the criteria list as well as track record :-) :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. Regards, Chris Knight Systems Administrator AIMS Independent Computer Professionals Tel: +61 3 6334 6664 Fax: +61 3 6331 7032 Mob: +61 419 528 795 Web: http://www.aims.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 3:37:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web20605.mail.yahoo.com (web20605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B06337B400 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 03:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.190.136.107] by web20605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 May 2002 03:37:42 PDT Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 03:37:42 -0700 (PDT) From: srijit lahiri Subject: Cvsup Installables for HP-UX and Usage manual for cvsupd To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, cvsup-bugs@polstra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I would like to have Cvsup installer for HP-UX along with usage manual of Cvsupd. We would be synchronizing Cvs sources located at HP-UX and Linux servers. Any pointers would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best regards Srijit. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 6:10: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0B837B408 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 06:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g49D9vv26721 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:09:57 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:09:56 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: per-user or -proc CPU reservation and limits Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, How difficult would it be to implement per-user or -process CPU reservation, a la ALTQ or other bandwidth reservation? Although FreeBSD has a nice scheduler, it would be even nicer to reserve x% of CPU cycles for a certain user or process, to have CPU throttling, et cetera. IOW, split the scheduler into "subschedulers", then have rules to group processes into subschedulers based on . Suggestions? -- Eddy Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 6:13:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scribble.fsn.hu (scribble.fsn.hu [193.224.40.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 855B237B41A for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 06:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6599 invoked by uid 1000); 9 May 2002 13:13:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 May 2002 13:13:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:13:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Attila Nagy To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: per-user or -proc CPU reservation and limits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, > How difficult would it be to implement per-user or -process CPU > reservation, a la ALTQ or other bandwidth reservation? There was a project, which wanted to provide QoS for such things. I think it is called "Eclipse" and was at AT&T. If you don't find it, drop me a mail, I will send you the URL. (I can't access my bookmark from here) BTW, it was for 3.3 or 3.x AFAIK. --------[ Free Software ISOs - ftp://ftp.fsn.hu/pub/CDROM-Images/ ]------- Attila Nagy e-mail: Attila.Nagy@fsn.hu Free Software Network (FSN.HU) phone @work: +361 210 1415 (194) cell.: +3630 306 6758 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 6:23:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu (web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu [134.129.125.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D3037B401 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) id g49DN8H00652; Thu, 9 May 2002 08:23:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tinguely) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:23:08 -0500 (CDT) From: mark tinguely Message-Id: <200205091323.g49DN8H00652@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, les@safety.net Subject: Re: Mbuf questions In-Reply-To: <200205081430.g48EUll27242@ns3.safety.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A kernel routine uses m_copydata to gather ethernet data into a > KMALLOC'd buffer, processes it, and now needs to put it back into an > mbuf. I would prefer that the resulting mbuf have the data together in > an external buffer, so that the cycles spent aren't wasted. > > I currently use m_copyback to put the data back into the original mbuf > chain, but an going nuts trying to get the chain to shrink when the > data shrinks without the next invocation of m_copydata panicing. why don't you place the buffer pointer into an external mbuf. this requires you to set several fields but you can use the macro MCLGET as a reference. You will also need to use the ext_free() pointer to a routine to correctly free the buffer when the mbuf is released. There is only one ext_free() per mbuf, if a stack layer also uses this function, then we lose the earlier function unless saved/restored as part of the mbuf setup/freeing. --mark tinguely To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 6:32:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8744037B40B for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 06:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g49DWGb27082; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:32:16 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:32:16 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Attila Nagy Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: per-user or -proc CPU reservation and limits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG AN> Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:13:21 +0200 (CEST) AN> From: Attila Nagy AN> There was a project, which wanted to provide QoS for such AN> things. I think it is called "Eclipse" and was at AT&T. AN> If you don't find it, drop me a mail, I will send you the AN> URL. (I can't access my bookmark from here) Hmmmm. A quick Google search gave (watch long URL on second one): http://www.bell-labs.com/project/eclipse/ http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix98/full_papers/bruno/bruno_html/bruno.html http://www.cs.rice.edu/~gaurav/papers/thesis.ps in case anyone else is interested. Eclipse/BSD is based on 3.4, and one could play with it, but the license looks incompatible. I guess that's not a big deal, though, as anything would be need to be written for 4-STABLE (or 5-CURRENT and MFCed to 4-STABLE). But the ideas certainly are interesting. :-) -- Eddy Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 7:22:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D14E137B40A for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 07:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g49EMUp08204; Thu, 9 May 2002 07:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id g49EMUF01571; Thu, 9 May 2002 07:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205091422.g49EMUF01571@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Cc: srla_00@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Cvsup Installables for HP-UX and Usage manual for cvsupd In-Reply-To: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com>, srijit lahiri wrote: > > I would like to have Cvsup installer for HP-UX along > with usage manual of Cvsupd. We would be synchronizing > Cvs sources located at HP-UX and Linux servers. > > Any pointers would be highly appreciated. Sorry, but CVSup is not supported under HP-UX. I do not have any plans to port it to HP-UX in the future. Also, CVSup is not a part of FreeBSD. So, questions should be sent to me rather than to the FreeBSD mailing lists. Regards, John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chgyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 7:39:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from south.nanolink.com (south.nanolink.com [217.75.134.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BE8F137B40E for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 07:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11903 invoked from network); 9 May 2002 14:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO straylight.ringlet.net) (212.116.140.125) by south.nanolink.com with SMTP; 9 May 2002 14:46:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 25865 invoked by uid 1000); 9 May 2002 14:38:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:38:25 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, srla_00@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Cvsup Installables for HP-UX and Usage manual for cvsupd Message-ID: <20020509173825.C956@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: John Polstra , hackers@freebsd.org, srla_00@yahoo.com References: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> <200205091422.g49EMUF01571@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200205091422.g49EMUF01571@vashon.polstra.com>; from jdp@polstra.com on Thu, May 09, 2002 at 07:22:30AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 07:22:30AM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > In article <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com>, > srijit lahiri wrote: > >=20 > > I would like to have Cvsup installer for HP-UX along > > with usage manual of Cvsupd. We would be synchronizing > > Cvs sources located at HP-UX and Linux servers. > >=20 > > Any pointers would be highly appreciated. >=20 > Sorry, but CVSup is not supported under HP-UX. I do not have any > plans to port it to HP-UX in the future. >=20 > Also, CVSup is not a part of FreeBSD. So, questions should be sent to > me rather than to the FreeBSD mailing lists. Disclaimer: I have *absolutely* no idea how much effort it might take to port Ezm3 and/or CVSup to HP/UX. Take the following as an unsolicited opinion which I am not even entitled to :) =2E.but doesn't sending them to the list entail the possiblity of some kind soul (unfortunately, not myself..) jumping in with an enthusiastic "hey, I have an HP/UX machine too, if someone else is interested, I could actually sit down and port Ezm3 and CVSup to it!"? :) Well, one might argue that the same would have been achieved by posting to a CVSup discussion/development list (is cvsup-bugs@polstra.com a list, or merely an alias for scoring purposes?)... G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 I am jealous of the first word in this sentence. --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE82onh7Ri2jRYZRVMRAvSZAJ9ArcbkHQ77snGgBfBn3BsOpfGJ3QCdHlSG uafPyW92SYjx/Om2pzBhFwQ= =81Ag -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sr1nOIr3CvdE5hEN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 8:36:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EF737B400 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 08:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g49FaCp08623; Thu, 9 May 2002 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id g49FaC701783; Thu, 9 May 2002 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205091536.g49FaC701783@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Cc: roam@ringlet.net Subject: Re: Cvsup Installables for HP-UX and Usage manual for cvsupd In-Reply-To: <20020509173825.C956@straylight.oblivion.bg> References: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> <200205091422.g49EMUF01571@vashon.polstra.com> <20020509173825.C956@straylight.oblivion.bg> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <20020509173825.C956@straylight.oblivion.bg>, Peter Pentchev wrote: > On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 07:22:30AM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > > Sorry, but CVSup is not supported under HP-UX. I do not have any > > plans to port it to HP-UX in the future. > > > > Also, CVSup is not a part of FreeBSD. So, questions should be sent to > > me rather than to the FreeBSD mailing lists. > > Disclaimer: I have *absolutely* no idea how much effort it might take > to port Ezm3 and/or CVSup to HP/UX. Take the following as an unsolicited > opinion which I am not even entitled to :) > > but doesn't sending them to the list entail the possiblity of some > kind soul (unfortunately, not myself..) jumping in with an enthusiastic > "hey, I have an HP/UX machine too, if someone else is interested, I could > actually sit down and port Ezm3 and CVSup to it!"? :) Well, this is a FreeBSD list, and FreeBSD doesn't run under HP-UX. So I don't see this list as being the right place to ask about a CVSup port to Linux/HP-UX. > Well, one might > argue that the same would have been achieved by posting to a CVSup > discussion/development list (is cvsup-bugs@polstra.com a list, or merely > an alias for scoring purposes?)... It's not a list -- just an alias. John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chgyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10: 4:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B038D37B404 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0470.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.215] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175rKi-0001La-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 10:04:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAABE2.D68352DB@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:03:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian T.Schellenberger" Cc: Greg Black , Ian , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <20020509055851.5BA03BB29@i8k.babbleon.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Brian T.Schellenberger" wrote: > **BUT** this is beside the point. When working with code withing a > particular project (such as FreeBSD), you should conform to its conventions, > not the other way 'round. He's actually trying to compile code from an old Linux system, using the project code as a platform, so this argument is not really valid. "**BUT**" ...the code is not going to compile on modern versions of Linux, either, since they have done the same thing with regard to interface promiscuity that FreeBSD did, when they switched to glibc 5. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10:22:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46CF37B40B for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0470.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.215] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175rcC-0001gx-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 10:22:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAB01F.391F085E@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:21:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: srijit lahiri Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, cvsup-bugs@polstra.com Subject: Re: Cvsup Installables for HP-UX and Usage manual for cvsupd References: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG srijit lahiri wrote: > I would like to have Cvsup installer for HP-UX along > with usage manual of Cvsupd. We would be synchronizing > Cvs sources located at HP-UX and Linux servers. > > Any pointers would be highly appreciated. The first thing you're going to need is a Modula III compiler for your HP/UX system... EZM3 doesn't support HP/UX (but it does suppor OSF/DEC UNIX/TRU-64, so now that HP has bought Compaq, it'll probably just compile, right? ;^)). PM3 claims to support HP/UX (and it's what EZM3 was claimed to be derived from). It's available from: http://m3.polymtl.ca/m3/ Here is where HP/UX support is claimed (as a set of released binaries; read the file "README"): http://m3.polymtl.ca/m3/binaries/HPPA/m3-3.3/.ghindex.html The sources for CVSup are at: http://www.polstra.com/projects/freeware/CVSup/ -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10:29:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E59537B407 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0470.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.215] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175rj9-0003d9-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 10:29:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAB1CD.B62BDA28@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:28:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mark tinguely Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, les@safety.net Subject: Re: Mbuf questions References: <200205091323.g49DN8H00652@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG mark tinguely wrote: > why don't you place the buffer pointer into an external mbuf. > this requires you to set several fields but you can use the macro > MCLGET as a reference. > > You will also need to use the ext_free() pointer to a routine to correctly > free the buffer when the mbuf is released. There is only one ext_free() > per mbuf, if a stack layer also uses this function, then we lose the > earlier function unless saved/restored as part of the mbuf setup/freeing. And if this doesn't make sense to the original poster... look at the "sendfile" source code, which uses external mbufs that point to buffer cache entries. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10:35:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB1437B41C for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0470.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.215] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175rol-0003yC-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 10:35:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAB329.3E1B16DC@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:34:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Attila Nagy , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: per-user or -proc CPU reservation and limits References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "E.B. Dreger" wrote: > Eclipse/BSD is based on 3.4, and one could play with it, but the > license looks incompatible. > > I guess that's not a big deal, though, as anything would be > need to be written for 4-STABLE (or 5-CURRENT and MFCed to > 4-STABLE). But the ideas certainly are interesting. :-) Rice University has been doing that a lot with their licenses, these days. I don't know if they would have done this anyway, or if it's an overreaction on their part to FreeBSD ignoring their patches. Since they aren't a publically funded university, I don't think there is much you can do, unless the work was done under a DARPA grant, and even then, it would be a pain to fight. Back to the original topic, though... you might want to ask Alfred for his CPU affinity patches that he did. They are more for locking things to a CPU than affinity, but they can do what you want to do (even though I think what you seem to want looks more like an SVR4 "fixed" scheduling class). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10:40:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6A437B420 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0470.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.215] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175rtZ-00039W-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 10:40:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAB453.54025D1A@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:39:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, srla_00@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Cvsup Installables for HP-UX and Usage manual for cvsupd References: <20020509103742.25075.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com> <200205091422.g49EMUF01571@vashon.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > Sorry, but CVSup is not supported under HP-UX. I do not have any > plans to port it to HP-UX in the future. Would it compile with PM3, or does it require EZM3? I think that would answer most of his question... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10:53:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435DA37B406 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g49HrK231940; Thu, 9 May 2002 17:53:20 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:53:20 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Attila Nagy , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: per-user or -proc CPU reservation and limits In-Reply-To: <3CDAB329.3E1B16DC@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG TL> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:34:33 -0700 TL> From: Terry Lambert TL> Rice University has been doing that a lot with their TL> licenses, these days. I don't know if they would have done TL> this anyway, or if it's an overreaction on their part to TL> FreeBSD ignoring their patches. Eclipse/BSD is a product of Bell Labs... Rice just had a useful reference. TL> Since they aren't a publically funded university, I don't TL> think there is much you can do, unless the work was done TL> under a DARPA grant, and even then, it would be a pain to TL> fight. Noted in case that is ever applicable... TL> Back to the original topic, though... you might want to ask TL> Alfred for his CPU affinity patches that he did. They are ...but this sounds more logical, anyway: Rather than hassling with encumbered software, why not extend the work of ? Hmmmm. I think I need to get 5.0-DP1 installed on a box. Hey, Alfred, if you're following the thread... I'm interested in playing with the patches! (And if you're not following, I'll just bug you off-list. *grin*) TL> more for locking things to a CPU than affinity, but they can TL> do what you want to do (even though I think what you seem to TL> want looks more like an SVR4 "fixed" scheduling class). A quick Google search leads me to believe that you're correct. Maybe I also need to get my UltraSPARC up and running with Slowaris and play around a bit. -- Eddy Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 10:55:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48FF37B400 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 94B79AE255; Thu, 9 May 2002 10:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:55:49 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Terry Lambert , Attila Nagy , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: per-user or -proc CPU reservation and limits Message-ID: <20020509175549.GD36741@elvis.mu.org> References: <3CDAB329.3E1B16DC@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * E.B. Dreger [020509 10:53] wrote: > > TL> Back to the original topic, though... you might want to ask > TL> Alfred for his CPU affinity patches that he did. They are > > ...but this sounds more logical, anyway: Rather than hassling > with encumbered software, why not extend the work of goodies going in to 5.0>? > > Hmmmm. I think I need to get 5.0-DP1 installed on a box. Hey, > Alfred, if you're following the thread... I'm interested in > playing with the patches! (And if you're not following, I'll > just bug you off-list. *grin*) http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/deltas/bind_cpu.diff.gz I'm not sure if it works and/or applies any longer. I asked for John and Jake to review it but they never gave me any sort of answer about it. Maybe I'll clean it up soon, maybe I won't. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 11:10:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF99737B407 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.feral.com (mjacob@mailhost.feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g49IA6g10789 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@beppo Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: vm panics: keep on getting these panics .... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG on a 2xPPRo, fresh TOT kernel as of today panic: vm_object_terminate: freeing busy page 0xc0ddfea0 p->busy = 0, p->flags c0dd cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 Debugger("panic") Stopped at Debugger+0x41: xorl %eax,%eax db> t Debugger(c031293a) at Debugger+0x41 panic(c032bee0,c0ddfea0,0,c0dd,d4262a20) at panic+0xd8 vm_object_terminate(d4262a20) at vm_object_terminate+0xa5 vm_object_deallocate(d4262a20) at vm_object_deallocate+0x157 vm_map_entry_delete(d1e49620,d4253ab0,bfc00000,0,d1e49620) at vm_map_entry_delete+0x33 vm_map_delete(d1e49620,0,bfc00000,d1e49620,0) at vm_map_delete+0x185 vm_map_remove(d1e49620,0,bfc00000,d1e4968c,0) at vm_map_remove+0x5b exit1(d423d100,0,c035e160,0,c030face) at exit1+0x35a sys_exit(d423d100,d4278d20,281aca58,ffffffff,0) at sys_exit+0x2a syscall(bfbf002f,80b002f,bfbf002f,0,ffffffff) at syscall+0x223 syscall_with_err_pushed() at syscall_with_err_pushed+0x1b --- syscall (1, FreeBSD ELF, sys_exit), eip = 0x2814cb2b, esp = 0xbfbffc7c, ebp = 0xbfbffca8 --- db> ps pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd 1010 d467a000 d46a0000 31154 1009 337 0004002 7 Giant c035e160 make 1009 d2f8093c d3006000 31154 1008 337 0004002 3 wait d2f8093c sh 1008 d423fc50 d543c000 31154 908 337 0004002 3 wait d423fc50 make 908 d423f628 d55ce000 31154 907 337 0004002 3 wait d423f628 sh 907 d423d93c d4271000 31154 419 337 0004002 3 wait d423d93c make 419 d3fe3000 d4052000 31154 337 337 0004002 3 wait d3fe3000 sh 337 d423d628 d427e000 31154 236 337 0004002 3 wait d423d628 make 270 d423d000 d4275000 31154 269 268 0006000 2 cvs 269 d40a8c50 d4279000 31154 268 268 0004000 3 wait d40a8c50 sh 268 d3268c50 d400e000 31154 267 268 0004000 3 wait d3268c50 sh 267 d40a8000 d40c3000 0 184 184 0000000 3 piperd d400435c cron 236 d40a7000 d40e4000 31154 235 236 0004002 3 wait d40a7000 bash 235 d423e314 d4192000 0 234 235 0004102 3 wait d423e314 login 234 d3fe2628 d40ed000 0 182 234 0004100 3 select c03611c0 rlogind 233 d423e628 d424e000 0 1 233 0004002 3 ttyin d2f08210 getty 232 d40a793c d40d1000 0 1 232 0004002 3 ttyin d2f08e10 getty 231 d423e93c d424a000 0 1 231 0004002 3 ttyin d2ed7210 getty 230 d423ec50 d4244000 0 1 230 0004002 3 ttyin d2e62a10 getty 229 d40a7314 d40e0000 0 1 229 0004002 3 ttyin d2ec3c10 getty 228 d326893c d4006000 0 1 228 0004002 3 ttyin d2f06c10 getty Anything else I should look at? Anyone seen it? Unfortunately, I have very little time for FreeBSD right now and unless there's something fixable here I'll turn this machiine off and run linux on it instead as the load generator for my paid work I need to get done :-( -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 12: 0:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp45-25.dis.org [216.240.45.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F6C37B40B for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g49IwKI3002052; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:58:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200205091858.g49IwKI3002052@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 May 2002 00:51:36 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:58:20 -0700 From: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've finally learned enough forth to put together a diff to implement some > nextboot functionality in the loader. > > Basically, the loader peeks into the first line of /boot/nextboot.conf to > see if nextboot_enable="YES" is there. If it is, it reads the entire > config, then rewrites the first line to nextboot_enable="NO" Don't do this. Put the variables directly into loader.conf. There's no need for another file. -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 12: 3:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E49F37B403 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g49IrqO67814; Thu, 9 May 2002 11:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 7D7A711E536; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8965511A572; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:03:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <200205091858.g49IwKI3002052@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 May 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > I've finally learned enough forth to put together a diff to implement some > > nextboot functionality in the loader. > > > > Basically, the loader peeks into the first line of /boot/nextboot.conf to > > see if nextboot_enable="YES" is there. If it is, it reads the entire > > config, then rewrites the first line to nextboot_enable="NO" > > Don't do this. Put the variables directly into loader.conf. There's no > need for another file. I think it's a bad idea to try to rewrite /boot/loader.conf. I purposely went for /boot/nextboot.conf so that if something went wrong with the rewrite, it (hopefully) wouldn't hose the user's settings. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 12: 8:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail17.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB7A37B405 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4051 invoked from network); 9 May 2002 19:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail17.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 9 May 2002 19:08:09 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g49J88F38965; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:08:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:08:00 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matthew Jacob Subject: RE: vm panics: keep on getting these panics .... Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 09-May-2002 Matthew Jacob wrote: > > on a 2xPPRo, fresh TOT kernel as of today Try reverting alc's changes to remove Giant from some of the vm code and see if that helps. > panic: vm_object_terminate: freeing busy page 0xc0ddfea0 p->busy = 0, > p->flags > c0dd > > cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 > Debugger("panic") > Stopped at Debugger+0x41: xorl %eax,%eax > db> t > Debugger(c031293a) at Debugger+0x41 > panic(c032bee0,c0ddfea0,0,c0dd,d4262a20) at panic+0xd8 > vm_object_terminate(d4262a20) at vm_object_terminate+0xa5 > vm_object_deallocate(d4262a20) at vm_object_deallocate+0x157 > vm_map_entry_delete(d1e49620,d4253ab0,bfc00000,0,d1e49620) at > vm_map_entry_delete+0x33 > vm_map_delete(d1e49620,0,bfc00000,d1e49620,0) at vm_map_delete+0x185 > vm_map_remove(d1e49620,0,bfc00000,d1e4968c,0) at vm_map_remove+0x5b > exit1(d423d100,0,c035e160,0,c030face) at exit1+0x35a > sys_exit(d423d100,d4278d20,281aca58,ffffffff,0) at sys_exit+0x2a > syscall(bfbf002f,80b002f,bfbf002f,0,ffffffff) at syscall+0x223 > syscall_with_err_pushed() at syscall_with_err_pushed+0x1b > --- syscall (1, FreeBSD ELF, sys_exit), eip = 0x2814cb2b, esp = 0xbfbffc7c, > ebp = 0xbfbffca8 --- > db> ps > pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd > 1010 d467a000 d46a0000 31154 1009 337 0004002 7 Giant c035e160 make > 1009 d2f8093c d3006000 31154 1008 337 0004002 3 wait d2f8093c sh > 1008 d423fc50 d543c000 31154 908 337 0004002 3 wait d423fc50 make > 908 d423f628 d55ce000 31154 907 337 0004002 3 wait d423f628 sh > 907 d423d93c d4271000 31154 419 337 0004002 3 wait d423d93c make > 419 d3fe3000 d4052000 31154 337 337 0004002 3 wait d3fe3000 sh > 337 d423d628 d427e000 31154 236 337 0004002 3 wait d423d628 make > 270 d423d000 d4275000 31154 269 268 0006000 2 cvs > 269 d40a8c50 d4279000 31154 268 268 0004000 3 wait d40a8c50 sh > 268 d3268c50 d400e000 31154 267 268 0004000 3 wait d3268c50 sh > 267 d40a8000 d40c3000 0 184 184 0000000 3 piperd d400435c cron > 236 d40a7000 d40e4000 31154 235 236 0004002 3 wait d40a7000 bash > 235 d423e314 d4192000 0 234 235 0004102 3 wait d423e314 login > 234 d3fe2628 d40ed000 0 182 234 0004100 3 select c03611c0 rlogind > 233 d423e628 d424e000 0 1 233 0004002 3 ttyin d2f08210 getty > 232 d40a793c d40d1000 0 1 232 0004002 3 ttyin d2f08e10 getty > 231 d423e93c d424a000 0 1 231 0004002 3 ttyin d2ed7210 getty > 230 d423ec50 d4244000 0 1 230 0004002 3 ttyin d2e62a10 getty > 229 d40a7314 d40e0000 0 1 229 0004002 3 ttyin d2ec3c10 getty > 228 d326893c d4006000 0 1 228 0004002 3 ttyin d2f06c10 getty > > > Anything else I should look at? Anyone seen it? > > Unfortunately, I have very little time for FreeBSD right now and unless > there's something fixable here I'll turn this machiine off and run linux on > it > instead as the load generator for my paid work I need to get done :-( > > > -matt > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 12:13:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp45-25.dis.org [216.240.45.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1466837B409 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g49JBaI3002178; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 May 2002 12:03:23 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:11:36 -0700 From: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I've finally learned enough forth to put together a diff to implement som > e > > > nextboot functionality in the loader. > > > > > > Basically, the loader peeks into the first line of /boot/nextboot.conf to > > > > see if nextboot_enable="YES" is there. If it is, it reads the entire > > > config, then rewrites the first line to nextboot_enable="NO" > > > > Don't do this. Put the variables directly into loader.conf. There's no > > need for another file. > > I think it's a bad idea to try to rewrite /boot/loader.conf. I purposely > went for /boot/nextboot.conf so that if something went wrong with the > rewrite, it (hopefully) wouldn't hose the user's settings. You're fooling yourself if you think that just because you're rewriting a different file, "something going wrong" isn't going to hose the user anyway. You probably want to overwrite with "TRY" rather than "NO", too, since userland needs something to key off to know that this is a 'next' boot. Obviously, "TRY" then gets overwritten with "NO" on the next boot, but the new kernel is not booted (this is the 'recovery') boot. I still think you're not thinking the processes associated with this feature through carefully enough. = Mike -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 12:46:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F22D37B410 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g49Jb9O70450; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id BBE1011E511; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77A711A572; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:46:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <200205091858.g49IwKI3002052@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 May 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > I've finally learned enough forth to put together a diff to implement some > > nextboot functionality in the loader. > > > > Basically, the loader peeks into the first line of /boot/nextboot.conf to > > see if nextboot_enable="YES" is there. If it is, it reads the entire > > config, then rewrites the first line to nextboot_enable="NO" > > Don't do this. Put the variables directly into loader.conf. There's no > need for another file. There needs to be another file regardless. How else am I going to know which are supposed to be used on the next boot and which are normal values that the user has put in /boot/loader.conf? -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 12:59:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9CFC37B401; Thu, 9 May 2002 12:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g49Jx7b5069238; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:59:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, developers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Request for submissions: FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just a reminder that the status reports are due tomorrow afternoon. Given that it's been three months since the last, I'd like to have as many projects reporting information as possible. A lot has happened in three months, so there shouldn't be a problem finding things to say :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:50:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, developers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Request for submissions: FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report This is a solicitation for submissions for the February 2002 - April 2002 FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report. All submissions are due by May 10, 2002. Submissions should be made by filling out the template found at: http://www.FreeBSD.org/news/status/report-sample.xml Submissions must then be e-mailed to the following address: robert+freebsd.monthly@cyrus.watson.org For automatic processing. Reports must be submitted in the XML format described, or they will be silently dropped. Submissions made to other e-mail addresses will be ignored. Status reports should be submitted once per project, although project developers may choose to submit additional reports on specific sub-projects of substantial size. Status reports are typically one or two short paragraphs, but the text may be up to 20 lines in length. Submissions are welcome on a variety of topics relating to FreeBSD, including development, documentation, advocacy, and development processes. Prior status reports may be viewed at: http://www.FreeBSD.org/news/status/ (Yes, I'm aware that February through April is three months, not two months, but for personal reasons, I was unavailable to solicit reports at the end of March. Please go ahead and cover the three-month period, and ignore the fact that the report is entitled bi-monthly, that's because this is a form letter.) Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 13:10:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA30C37B403 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g49K0tO71191; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 031FB11E511; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0191211A572; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:10:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 May 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > You're fooling yourself if you think that just because you're rewriting a > different file, "something going wrong" isn't going to hose the user > anyway. True, but if I only hose /boot/nextboot.conf (which is going to be delete when the machine enters multi-user anyway), I can contain any damage done. > You probably want to overwrite with "TRY" rather than "NO", too, since > userland needs something to key off to know that this is a 'next' boot. > > Obviously, "TRY" then gets overwritten with "NO" on the next boot, but > the new kernel is not booted (this is the 'recovery') boot. This doesn't really have any hooks into userland. It's for loader options. I may not be understanding what you are trying to illustrate here. > I still think you're not thinking the processes associated with this > feature through carefully enough. Very possible. This was just a first cut of the feature and I'll be the first to admit that it's not pretty. I don't know forth so I was happy to get as far as I did. There isn't a notion of a recovery boot in this implementation. It either tries the new options (specified in /boot/nextboot.conf) or it doesn't and sticks to the defaults. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 13:11:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from damon.com (damon.com [199.98.84.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17B537B409 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from damon.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by damon.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g49KAuS2002379; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:10:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g49KAtjJ002378; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:10:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:10:55 -0500 From: Damon Anton Permezel To: Greg Black Cc: Ian , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h Message-ID: <20020509151055.B348@damon.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from gjb@gbch.net on Thu, May 09, 2002 at 03:45:59PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 03:45:59PM +1000, Greg Black wrote: > Ian Noname wrote: > > | > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". > | > | Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and > | differing opinions exist. > > There's no shortage of opinions. They are like arseholes: > everybody has one. But there are rules that have been carefully > worked out by people who have put a lot of time into them, and > those rules are documented in the man pages for each interface > in the system. A programmer who can read can get this stuff > right without even rasing a sweat. > OK, time to check an actual example to see if the supposed reason this is a GoodThing(tm) exists. % man open ... SYNOPSIS #include int open(const char *path, int flags, ...); ... % ed $inc/fcntl.h ... /* * This file includes the definitions for open and fcntl * described by POSIX for ; it also includes * related kernel definitions. */ #ifndef _KERNEL #include #endif ... So, the reasoning here appears specious. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 13:11:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quebec.procergs.com.br (quebec.procergs.com.br [200.198.128.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B4D37B40B; Thu, 9 May 2002 13:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [172.28.6.101]) by quebec.procergs.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D4410BC; Thu, 9 May 2002 17:11:03 -0300 (BRT) Subject: rc.conf From: O Senhor To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <000001c1f785$d70da030$0901a8c0@office1> References: <000001c1f785$d70da030$0901a8c0@office1> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 Date: 09 May 2002 17:11:02 -0300 Message-Id: <1020975062.1778.3.camel@ws-tor-004> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I have two FreeBSD boxes (4.5), running fine! (diskless) The two machines have two networks interfaces. In the rc.conf file of the both, are to ifconfig's (fxp0 e fxp1), but only one go up! Why?! I did put the ifconfig command in /etc/network and have fixed the problem. But i don't want that. Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 14: 5: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEEF37B403 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 14:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id BC804535E; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:04:57 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Ian Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 May 2002 23:04:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ian writes: > > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". > Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and > differing opinions exist. POSIX disagrees with you. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 14: 6:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461AC37B41D for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 14:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g49L6VN24388; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g49L6Sr70314; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020509.150607.03868204.imp@village.org> To: freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: References: <3CD9727B.B53067A4@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: Ian writes: : : > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". : : Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and : differing opinions exist. However, there are standards that state explicitly that this is a rule, not an opinion, for some large classes of interfaces. Those tend to trump personal opinions. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15: 2:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC9E37B403 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0102.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.102] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175vyp-0004im-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:01:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAF1A6.13DB883D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:01:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Smith Cc: Gordon Tetlow , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Smith wrote: > I still think you're not thinking the processes associated with this > feature through carefully enough. Liten to Mike; he is the loader guru. I don't know how the file I/O is done for the "YES/NO" change, since I have to have a couple of browsers open to read FORTH code. 8-(. However, the prototype I worked on at ClickArray with James (both guys who eventually donated code in that area were ClickArray folks) assumed that it would rewrite the file with equal length contents, as being the only safe way to do a write from the FORTH code. The way it was planned to work out was to have a file that had a line listing root devices, and then rotor through the list, rewriting it, as part of the boot process, e.g.: "device1 device1 device1 device2 device2 device2" -> "device1 device1 device2 device2 device2 device1" ... The existance or non-existance of the file was the "yes" or "no". This is slightly different than the code that Archie, Julian, and Doug worked out before I started at Whistle (the original "nextboot" code), but it has the same properties. Unfortunately, it wasn't really possible (no room, no write code in the boot2, no room for write code in the boot2!) to keep the list in the boot sector. Rewriting a file in any case, almost makes it so that the boot code, containing the file, is on its own partition. Otherwise, you get screwed when one partition fails and the other does not (it's a cris-cross) and you go to update. 8-(. So I definitely agree with Mike here. Maybe you could ask Archie or Ambrisko to clarify the feature you're trying to replace, and then ask Mike about the code needed to do that? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:10:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A472037B423 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0102.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.102] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175w52-0005H9-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:08:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAF322.53A51AF8@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:07:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > I still think you're not thinking the processes associated with this > > feature through carefully enough. > > Very possible. This was just a first cut of the feature and I'll be the > first to admit that it's not pretty. I don't know forth so I was happy > to get as far as I did. > > There isn't a notion of a recovery boot in this implementation. It either > tries the new options (specified in /boot/nextboot.conf) or it doesn't and > sticks to the defaults. You need to listen to Mike. The primary reason this code was originally written was to permit field upgrades by having a "ping-pong" boot. If the boot of the newly installed system failed a number of times in a row, then it fell back to using the old "root" device, which contained the previous revision. The point of the exercise is to not turn a working machine into a doorstop with a field upgrade that fails, or happens to be a bad and/or hacked load. What problem are you trying to solve? If it isn't the one that the code was originally intended to solve, then it must be some other problem that we just aren't seeing? Thanks, -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:12:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB7237B428 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0102.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.102] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175w7J-0000q0-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAF3B3.1D09C688@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:09:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: Greg Black , Ian , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: <20020509151055.B348@damon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Damon Anton Permezel wrote: > OK, time to check an actual example to see if the supposed reason > this is a GoodThing(tm) exists. > > % man open > > ... > SYNOPSIS > #include > > int > open(const char *path, int flags, ...); > ... > > % ed $inc/fcntl.h > ... > /* > * This file includes the definitions for open and fcntl > * described by POSIX for ; it also includes > * related kernel definitions. > */ > > #ifndef _KERNEL > #include > #endif > ... > > So, the reasoning here appears specious. Sorry; didn't see you doing the "-D_KERNEL"... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:15: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from 12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com (12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com [12.234.96.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4901037B485 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B813CA900; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:16:03 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Terry Lambert Cc: Michael Smith , Gordon Tetlow , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff Message-ID: <20020509151603.F43682@stylus.haikugeek.com> References: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> <3CDAF1A6.13DB883D@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3CDAF1A6.13DB883D@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, May 09, 2002 at 03:01:10PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert [tlambert2@mindspring.com] wrote : > Michael Smith wrote: > > I still think you're not thinking the processes associated with this > > feature through carefully enough. > > Liten to Mike; he is the loader guru. > > I don't know how the file I/O is done for the "YES/NO" change, > since I have to have a couple of browsers open to read FORTH > code. 8-(. > > However, the prototype I worked on at ClickArray with James > (both guys who eventually donated code in that area were > ClickArray folks) assumed that it would rewrite the file with > equal length contents, as being the only safe way to do a > write from the FORTH code. This is the same code. [ ... failover code deisgn ... ] > Maybe you could ask Archie or Ambrisko to clarify the feature > you're trying to replace, and then ask Mike about the code > needed to do that? Gordon is working on rewriting nextboot(8) so that it works again. I shouldn't have to tell you to RTFM, Terry. ;P -- Jonathan Mini http://www.haikugeek.com "He who is not aware of his ignorance will be only misled by his knowledge." -- Richard Whatley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:24:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web21107.mail.yahoo.com (web21107.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9588037B406 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020509222419.32643.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:24:19 PDT Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h To: "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020509.150607.03868204.imp@village.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > : > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". Correct me if I am wrong; doesn't the curses library do this. I saw in one of Eric's (Raymond) documentation about it. Also, have a look at: := src/sys/dev/vinum/vinumhdr.h JFYI. :-) -- Hiten __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:28:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1482037B40A for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0102.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.102] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175wOX-0006JN-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:28:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAF7DE.1167A7B3@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:27:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Ian , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: /usr/include/netinet/in.h References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Ian writes: > > > The general rule is "including includes from includes is bad". > > Okay, it's time to point out that these are opinions, not rules, and > > differing opinions exist. > > POSIX disagrees with you. "Can't we just teach the lions to eat grass?" -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:38:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7063F37B40B for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 7DEBAF0; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:37:40 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:37:40 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Soft interrupts Message-ID: <20020509223740.GC8889@genius.tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rQ2U398070+RC21q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --rQ2U398070+RC21q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Do we have soft interrupts? Here's a bit of code from the NetBSD usb stack, and I'm trying to work out what it would be in FreeBSDland. sc->sc_bus->soft = softintr_establish(IPL_SOFTNET, sc->sc_bus->methods->soft_intr, sc->sc_bus); if (sc->sc_bus->soft == NULL) { printf("%s: can't register softintr\n", USBDEVNAME(sc->sc_dev)); sc->sc_dying = 1; USB_ATTACH_ERROR_RETURN; } Can someone point me to a man page please? Joe --rQ2U398070+RC21q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjza+jMACgkQXVIcjOaxUBbuaACfSzuvFJQWtp6OfuGNkdUczkUs 6pcAn0I0iSozEN0Jj4DVOi71/PMBAYR6 =ckQN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rQ2U398070+RC21q-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 15:56:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3281437B408 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0102.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.102] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175wpi-0001Id-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 15:56:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDAFE72.E1EDE979@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:55:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft interrupts References: <20020509223740.GC8889@genius.tao.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > Do we have soft interrupts? Yes. The easiest one to use is NETISR. Software interrupts are called from reenabling hardware interrupts. See _doreti in /sys/i386/isa/ipl.s static void ipintr(void) { ... } void ip_init() { ... register_netisr(NETISR_IP, ipintr); } See net/netisr.h for a place to pick a number that isn't used (i.e. do not step on NETISR_IP or some other place it's called). Note that the index is limited to 0..31, since there is a hard coded limit of 32 entries on the netisrs array. It's almost even appropriate to treat USB as a network stack... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 16: 0:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lsmail8.oin-1.com (lsmail8.oin-1.com [216.242.142.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD5337B401 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpaserv (216.242.142.54) by lsmail8.oin-1.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <40.00001A68@lsmail8.oin-1.com>; Thu, 9 May 2002 17:49:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:39:50 -0400 From: American Homeowners Association Subject: Friend, Here Are Your 2 FREE Airline Tickets To: freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN" Message-Id: <20020509225953.EBD5337B401@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Friend, Here Are Your 2 FREE Airline Tickets Dear Friend, I have your Two FREE Airline Tickets. They're FREE, but I need to know where to send them. http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=556.158233684&t=1 Two FREE round trip airline tickets valued up to $2100.00 to your choice of resort destination. Select from Hawaii, Orlando, Las Vegas, London and 20 other exciting locations. Plus you can try all of our money-saving benefits FREE for 30 days. Act Now! http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=556.158233684&t=1 You also get a full subscription to HOME Magazine at no additional cost! This offer is risk-free, registration only takes a minute and is completely secure. It's that easy. Your satisfaction is guaranteed because our credibility is on the line. P.S.: This offer is only valid for the next 48 hours, so Act Now! ($4.95 postage and handling required at the time of trial registration) http://optweb2.optmails.com/redir.jsp?oin=556.158233684&t=1 Copyright 2002, American Homeowners Association (AHA). All rights reserved. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing! This message is sent to subscribers ONLY. The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To unsubscribe please click the link below http://optweb1.optmails.com/cpa/remove.jsp?email=freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org or Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@OIN-1.com Or you may mail us at: PO BOX 810052 Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278 --B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN Content-Type: text/html Content-Disposition: inline; Friend, Here Are Your 2 FREE Airline Tickets
Dear Friend,

I have your certificate for Two FREE Airline Tickets.
They're FREE, but I need to know where to send them.
Click Here and complete the form.

Two FREE airline tickets valued up to $2100.00 to your
choice of resort destination. Select from Hawaii, Orlando,
Las Vegas, London and 20 other exciting locations.

Plus you can try all of our money-saving benefits FREE for 30 days. Act Now!

You also get a full subscription to HOME Magazine at no additional cost!
This offer is risk-free, registration only takes a minute and is completely secure.
It's that easy. Your satisfaction is guaranteed because our credibility is on the line.

P.S.: This offer is only valid for the next 48 hours, so Act Now!
Copyright 2002, American Homeowners Association (AHA). All rights reserved.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This email is not sent unsolicited. This is an Opt-In Network mailing!
This message is sent to subscribers ONLY.

The e-mail subscription address is: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org

To unsubscribe please click here.
or
Send an email with the word 'remove' in the subject line to remove@OIN-1.com
Or you may mail us at:
PO BOX 810052
Boca Raton, Fl 33481-0052

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278
--B0D5451A-A4D4-4169-8F97-8AE3C4E57278OPTIN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 17:39:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wemm.org (12-232-135-171.client.attbi.com [12.232.135.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665E237B405 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 17:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by fw.wemm.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4A0d1439515 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 17:39:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085A7380A; Thu, 9 May 2002 17:39:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Josef Karthauser Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Soft interrupts In-Reply-To: <20020509223740.GC8889@genius.tao.org.uk> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:39:01 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020510003901.085A7380A@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > Do we have soft interrupts? > > Here's a bit of code from the NetBSD usb stack, and I'm trying to work > out what it would be in FreeBSDland. > > sc->sc_bus->soft = softintr_establish(IPL_SOFTNET, > sc->sc_bus->methods->soft_intr, sc->sc_bus); > if (sc->sc_bus->soft == NULL) { > printf("%s: can't register softintr\n", USBDEVNAME(sc->sc_dev )); > sc->sc_dying = 1; > USB_ATTACH_ERROR_RETURN; > } > > Can someone point me to a man page please? > > Joe You probably want to have a good look at usb_ethersubr.c - it does this sort of thing already, but for different reasons. On FreeBSD, the usb hardware interrupts ran (pre-SMPng) as bio, not net. All of the assumptions, problems and workarounds for this from pre-SMPng are now invalid or irrelevant. usb_ethersubr.c can be gutted right down now since splnet and splbio are irrelevant. The problems that NetBSD has to deal with are no longer the same for us. The softint stuff is probably harmful for us because it would mean an *extra* context switch. (from the uhci/ohci ithread to the swinet ithread). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 18:43:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A13337B40A for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 18:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0127.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.127] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 175zRL-0005A5-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 18:43:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDB2593.43E20459@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:42:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Wemm Cc: Josef Karthauser , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Soft interrupts References: <20020510003901.085A7380A@overcee.wemm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm wrote: > You probably want to have a good look at usb_ethersubr.c - it does this > sort of thing already, but for different reasons. On FreeBSD, the usb > hardware interrupts ran (pre-SMPng) as bio, not net. All of the > assumptions, problems and workarounds for this from pre-SMPng are now > invalid or irrelevant. usb_ethersubr.c can be gutted right down now > since splnet and splbio are irrelevant. The problems that NetBSD > has to deal with are no longer the same for us. The softint stuff > is probably harmful for us because it would mean an *extra* context > switch. (from the uhci/ohci ithread to the swinet ithread). I'll second the softint stuff being a real performance pig. I answered your question, but if I was more careful, I should have spoken to the problem you seemed to be trying to solve, like Peter did. Even if you are looking at the TCP/IP stack itself, running the processing to completion at hardware interrupt time saves you a lot, including the latencey between the splx/netisr run (I meant it each time I discussed LRP on the list). IMO, the USB processing isn't performance critical in itself, but the more things that get jammed into softint processing, and the more things you register with netisr_register() (or whatever), the higher the latency. So just jamming something in there to make it look like NetBSD, if it isn't really, really important to maintain interface compatability for some reason, could hurt other users who have USB in the hardware (in theory, USB should be ripped out for rack-mount and server stuff, for the most part, but not every user builds a use-specfic kernel). For -current, you probably want to process to completion in the uhci/ohci thread, rather than delaying it as upper/lower like the NetBSD code tries to do. Are you running -current, or are you running a 4.x? It's really hard to tell, when you post on -hackers instead of -stable or -current... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 20:24:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from 66-108-101-49.nyc.rr.com (66-108-101-49.nyc.rr.com [66.108.101.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9898037B41C for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 20:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001f01c1f7d1$94b267b0$31656c42@aquamari3wvur5> From: "Guy Levallois" To: Subject: Looking for a russian actress to take part in a film project Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:19:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1F7B0.01CAB090" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1F7B0.01CAB090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for taking the time to read this email. I am a student at the New York Film Academy - www.nyfa.com=20 I am planning to make a short romantic film entitled "From St. = Petersburg with Love", in which a Frenchman, living in New York City, = falls in love with a beautiful Russian woman from St. Petersburg. The filming is to take place in New York, St. Petersburg and the French = Riviera. =20 The actress has to be willing to work for free (expenses will be taken = care of though). And she should speak both Russian and at least some = English. If you are interested in taking part, please email me your details. I = plan to be in St. Petersburg and Moscow in June in order to further this = project. Sincerely, Guy Levallois ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1F7B0.01CAB090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for taking the time to read = this=20 email.
 
I am a student at the New York Film = Academy - www.nyfa.com
 
I am planning to make a short = romantic film=20 entitled "From St. Petersburg with Love", in which a Frenchman, living = in New=20 York City, falls in love with a beautiful Russian woman from St.=20 Petersburg.
 
The filming is to take place in New = York, St.=20 Petersburg and the French Riviera. 
 
The actress has to be willing to work = for free=20 (expenses will be taken care of though).  And she should speak both = Russian=20 and at least some English.
 
If you are interested in taking part, = please email=20 me your details.  I plan to be in St. Petersburg and Moscow in June = in=20 order to further this project.
 
Sincerely,
 
Guy = Levallois
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1F7B0.01CAB090-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 23: 4:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tarantula.cse.Buffalo.EDU (tarantula.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.39.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8B737B401 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rc27@localhost) by tarantula.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.1) id g4A64X513840 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 May 2002 02:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:04:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Ramkumar Chinchani Message-Id: <200205100604.g4A64X513840@tarantula.cse.Buffalo.EDU> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: kevent subsystem Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has the POSIX event standard implemeted in FreeBSD? POSIX events are logged to a file. Which would give a better performance, assuming kevent can register more events? Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 23:24:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D7437B40F for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leto (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GVT000TX50RIU@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 08 May 2002 15:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 14:29:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: configuring X on a vaio pcg-c1vp In-reply-to: <3CD977EA.AF875D80@mindspring.com> X-X-Sender: bandix@leto.homeportal.2wire.net To: Terry Lambert Cc: Neil Bliss , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20020508142330.O5818-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ wondering if this will make it to the list since hub.freebsd.org seems to be dropping mail from me lately ] [ assuming the above evaluates as true I've attempted to redirect this to -mobile, where it belongs ] On Wed, 8 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: >Neil Bliss wrote: >> Hey folks, >> >> Does anyone have any pointers or advice for getting X running on my sony vaio >> pcg-c1vp picturebook? > >The easiest thing is to go looking for it at yahoo/google; the >config will be the same for FreeBSD as it is for Linux/whatever. In the past I have used the excellent resources of linux-laptop.net to configure various laptops for use under FreeBSD. It is an excellent source of, for instance, XFree86 configuration files. It also can help to provide hints for getting various laptop peripherals working such as sound cards, internal modems, and some of those nifty extra buttons that most laptops seem to come with nowadays. The advice may be linux-centric, but anyone with a modicum of FreeBSD experience can generally extract useful information to apply towards a similar FreeBSD configuration. Brandon D. Valentine -- "Time to resign from the human race, wipe those tears from your lovely face. Baby, wave to the man in the ol' red caboose before all hell breaks loose." - Kinky Friedman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 23:24:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB2237B42C for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0128.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.128] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1763pM-0000AC-00; Thu, 09 May 2002 23:24:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDB6759.41A76480@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 23:23:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ramkumar Chinchani Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kevent subsystem References: <200205100604.g4A64X513840@tarantula.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ramkumar Chinchani wrote: > Has the POSIX event standard implemeted in FreeBSD? POSIX events are logged to > a file. Which would give a better performance, assuming kevent can register more > events? Are you talking about POSIX persistent queueing, of the type not implemented by the POSIX printing model, based on Palladium out of Project Athena? THat's more like a "Tuxedo" replacement, than anything else. It's not really comparable to kevent (IMO). If you meant something else, you might want to ask a clearer question (i.e. give the standards information for the "event standard" you are talking about; there are so many to choose from, e.g. queued signal delivery, etc.). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 23:25:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from yahoo.com (host217-35-88-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com [217.35.88.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7109A37B40E for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [218.151.234.9] by hd.regsoft.net with esmtp; Wed, 8 May 2002 12:16:52 -0300 Received: from [13.146.247.116] by rly-xr02.mx.aol.com with local; Tue, 7 May 2002 01:14:28 +1200 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([60.140.6.222]) by a231242.upc-a.chello.nl with esmtp; Sun, 5 May 2002 14:12:04 +0900 Received: from 108.134.19.76 ([108.134.19.76]) by asy100.as122.sol.superonline.com with asmtp; Sat, 4 May 2002 03:09:40 +1000 Reply-To: Message-ID: <72EB8574-48A0-4F58-BE3A-E91527EA60FD@BvyvUdfm> From: To: Subject: ebay users submit your site F6qd8-JK8m-NoNvIE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00M5_46Q67S8U.V3897Z11" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 23:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------=_NextPart_000_00M5_46Q67S8U.V3897Z11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PEJhc2UgSHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vbWFpbC5odG1sIj4NCjxIVE1M Pg0KPEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPldlYkNyYXdsZXJzLkNvbTogV2ViIHNpdGUgcHJvbW90aW9uIGFuZCBt YXJrZXRpbmcuPC9USVRMRT4NCjxNRVRBIE5BTUU9ImRlc2NyaXB0aW9uIiBDT05URU5UPSJUaGUg aW50ZXJuZXRzIG1vc3QgcG9wdWxhciBXZWIgc2l0ZSBwcm9tb3Rpb24gY29tcGFueS4gVXNlIEdv U3VibWl0Lk5ldCB0byByZWdpc3RlciB5b3VyIFVSTCB3aXRoIGh1bmRyZWRzIG9mIHNlYXJjaCBl bmdpbmVzIGFuZCBkaXJlY3Rvcmllcy4iPg0KPE1FVEEgTkFNRT0ia2V5d29yZHMiIENPTlRFTlQ9 IndlYiBzaXRlIHByb21vdGlvbiwgd2ViIHNpdGUgbWFya2V0aW5nLCB3ZWIgc2l0ZSBhZHZlcnRp c2luZywgd2ViIHBhZ2UgcHJvbW90aW9uLCB3ZWIgcGFnZSBtYXJrZXRpbmcsIHdlYiBwYWdlIGFk dmVydGlzaW5nLCB1cmwsIHNlYXJjaCBlbmdpbmUgbGlzdGluZ3MsIHNlYXJjaCBlbmdpbmUgDQpz dWJtaXNzaW9ucywgc2VhcmNoIGVuZ2luZSByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24sIHNlYXJjaCBlbmdpbmUgc2Vj cmV0cywgcHJvbW90ZSBzdWJtaXQgdXJsIGludGVybmV0IG1hcmtldGluZyBzZWFyY2ggZW5naW5l cyAiPg0KPCEtLSBNZXRhLXRhZ3MgY3JlYXRlZCBvbiAwNS0yMy0yMDAwLiBVcGRhdGUgTWV0YS10 YWdzIGFmdGVyIDMwIGRheXMgdG8gaW5zdXJlIGJlc3QgcG9zc2libGUgTWV0YSBUYWcgY29tYmlu YXRpb25zLWJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSBsYXRlc3QgZm9ybWF0dGluZyByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgYW5kIGFs Z29yaXRobXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgc2VhcmNoIGVuZ2luZXMuIC0tPg0KPFNDUklQVCBMQU5HVUFHRT0i SmF2YVNjcmlwdCI+DQo8IS0tDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KPCEtLQ0KZnVuY3Rpb24gbmV3SW1hZ2UoYXJn KSB7IGlmIChkb2N1bWVudC5pbWFnZXMpIHsJcnNsdCA9IG5ldyBJbWFnZSgpOyByc2x0LnNyYyA9 IGFyZzsgcmV0dXJuIHJzbHQ7IH19DQpmdW5jdGlvbiBjaGFuZ2VJbWFnZXMoKSB7IGlmIChkb2N1 bWVudC5pbWFnZXMgJiYgKHByZWxvYWRGbGFnID09IHRydWUpKSB7DQpmb3IgKHZhciBpPTA7IGk8 Y2hhbmdlSW1hZ2VzLmFyZ3VtZW50cy5sZW5ndGg7IGkrPTIpIHtkb2N1bWVudFtjaGFuZ2VJbWFn ZXMuYXJndW1lbnRzW2ldXS5zcmMgPSBjaGFuZ2VJbWFnZXMuYXJndW1lbnRzW2krMV07fX19DQp2 YXIgcHJlbG9hZEZsYWcgPSBmYWxzZTsNCmZ1bmN0aW9uIHByZWxvYWRJbWFnZXMoKSB7aWYgKGRv Y3VtZW50LmltYWdlcykgew0KcHJlbG9hZEZsYWcgPSB0cnVlO319DQovLyAtLT4NCi8vLS0+DQo8 L1NDUklQVD4NCjxzdHlsZT4NCjwhLS1hIHsgIHRleHQtZGVjb3JhdGlvbjogbm9uZX0gIGE6aG92 ZXIgeyAgdGV4dC1kZWNvcmF0aW9uOiB1bmRlcmxpbmV9IA0KICAgIHNwYW4geyBmb250LXNpemU6 IDEyOyBjb2xvcjogIzAwMDBDQ30gIHN0cm9uZyB7IGNvbG9yOiAjRkZGRkZGfSANCiAgICB1bCB7 ICBsaXN0LXN0eWxlOiBsaXN0LWl0ZW0gdXJsKC9ncmFwaGljcy9idWxsZXQuZ2lmKTsgfSAtLT4N Cjwvc3R5bGU+DQo8L0hFQUQ+DQo8c2NyaXB0IGxhbmd1YWdlPWphdmFzY3JpcHQ+DQovLzwhLS0N CndpbmRvdy5vcGVuKCJodHRwOi8vd3d3LmRhbm5pcy5jb20vc2VhcmNobWFkZXNhZmUzLmh0bWwi LCJfbmV3IiwieD01MDAwLHRvcD0wLHk9MCxsZWZ0PTUwMDAsaGVpZ2h0PTEwLHdpZHRoPTEwLGRp cmVjdG9yaWVzPW5vLHRvb2xiYXI9bm8sYWRkcmVzc2Jhcj1ubyxyZXNpemFibGU9bm8sbWVudWJh cj1ubyxzY3JvbGxiYXJzPW5vIik7DQovLy0tPg0KPC9zY3JpcHQ+DQoNCjxCT0RZIEJHQ09MT1I9 I0ZGRkZGRiBPTkxPQUQ9IiIgbGVmdG1hcmdpbj0iMyIgDQp0b3BtYXJnaW49IjMiIG1hcmdpbmhl aWdodD0iMyIgbWFyZ2lud2lkdGg9IjMiIHRleHQ9IiMwMDAwMDAiIGxpbms9IiMzMzMzRkYiIHZs aW5rPSIjMDAwMENDIiBhbGluaz0iI0ZGMzMzMyI+DQo8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0KICA8 dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjYwMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSI3MDAiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjAi IGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIj4NCiAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiByb3dzcGFu PSI2IiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjOTk5OTk5Ij4mbmJzcDsgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgIDx0ZCBoZWlnaHQ9IjIi IGNvbHNwYW49IjIiPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbS9pbWFnZXMv YmFyLmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjYwMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSI3Ij4gDQogICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgPHRk IHdpZHRoPSIxIiByb3dzcGFuPSI2IiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjOTk5OTk5Ij4mbmJzcDsgPC90ZD4NCiAg ICA8L3RyPg0KICAgIDx0ciBoZWlnaHQ9IjI0Ij4gDQogICAgICA8dGQgcm93c3Bhbj0iMiI+Jm5i c3A7PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMTAwJSI+IA0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJj ZW50ZXIiPiA8L2Rpdj4NCiAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICA8dHIgaGVpZ2h0PSIx MDAlIj4gDQogICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjcwMCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIi IGhlaWdodD0iMTAwJSIgYmdjb2xvcj0iI0ZGRkZGRiI+IA0KICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9 IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSIwIj4NCiAgICAg ICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIiBhbGlnbj0ibGVmdCIgaGVp Z2h0PSI5Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPGRpdiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Yj48Zm9udCBmYWNl PSJWZXJkYW5hLCBBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIiBzaXplPSIyIj4qKioqIA0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFdlIENyZWF0ZSBNYXNzaXZlIFRyYWZmaWMgRm9yIFlvdXIgV2ViIFNp dGUgKioqKjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBPdXIgZmlybSBpcyBkZWRpY2F0ZWQgdG8gcHJv dmlkaW5nIHlvdSB3aXRoIGEgc3RlYWR5IGFuZCBtYXNzaXZlIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGZs b3cgb2Ygd2ViIHNpdGUgdHJhZmZpYy4gTm8gbWF0dGVyIHdoYXQgdHlwZSBvZiBzaXRlIHlvdSBo YXZlIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHdlIGd1YXJhbnRlZSB3ZSB3aWxsIGluY3JlYXNlIHlvdXIg dHJhZmZpYyB3aXRoIG91ciBuZXcgaGlnaC10ZWNoIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHNlYXJjaCBl bmdpbmUgcGxhY2VtZW50IG1ldGhvZHMuIFdlIHNwZWNpYWxpemUgaW4gZ2V0dGluZyB5b3VyIA0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHNpdGUgcmFua2VkIGFib3ZlIHlvdXIgY29tcGV0aXRpb24uIDxicj4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBDQUxMIE5PVyEhOiAxLTgxOC04ODgtNXdlYjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICBUbyBFbWFpbCBVcyBGb3IgTW9yZSBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbjogPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRv OnN1Ym1pc3Npb25zQHdlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbSI+c3VibWlzc2lvbnNAd2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMuY29t IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvYT4gPC9mb250PjwvYj48L2Rpdj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIDwv dGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9Ijc5IiB2YWxpZ249InRvcCIgaGVpZ2h0PSI5Ij48 YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LmdvMm5ldC5jb20iPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC9hPiA8L3Rk Pg0KICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgIDxkaXYgYWxpZ249 ImNlbnRlciI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgIDx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD0iNDkwIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxw YWRkaW5nPSIzIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8 dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjE1NSIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiIHJvd3NwYW49 IjQiPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8cCBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDov L3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2xvZ28uZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMTAwIiBoZWlnaHQ9 IjEwMCI+PC9wPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDxwIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9 IlZlcmRhbmEsIEFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiIHNpemU9Ii0xIj48Zm9udCBm YWNlPSJNb25hY28iPjxiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9Im1vbmFjbyIgY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwOTkiPjxpPjwv aT48L2ZvbnQ+PC9iPjwvZm9udD48L2ZvbnQ+PC9wPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDxwIGFsaWdu PSJjZW50ZXIiPiZuYnNwOzwvcD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MjUiIHZhbGlnbj0idG9wIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEwOCI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDxwPjxiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9IkFyaWFsIiBzaXplPSIrMiIgY29sb3I9IiNGRjAwMDAiPjxp PjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbS9pbWFnZXMvcHJvbW90ZS5naWYi IHdpZHRoPSIzNTMiIGhlaWdodD0iMTEyIj48L2k+PC9mb250PjwvYj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgPC9wPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAg ICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iNDI1IiB2YWxpZ249InRvcCI+PGZv bnQgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9IjIiPjxiPkxldCANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB1cyBwcm9t b3RlIHlvdXIgYnVzaW5lc3MgdG8gMTU1MCBzZWFyY2ggZW5naW5lcyBhbmQgWWFob28hLCBnZW5l cmF0ZSANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBwZXJmZWN0IE1ldGEtVGFncywgbGluayAyMDAgc2l0ZXMg dG8geW91IGFuZCBtYWtlIHlvdXIgc2l0ZSBTZWFyY2ggDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgRW5naW5l IGZyaWVuZGx5IHRvIGdldCB5b3UgYSBoaWdoZXIgcmFua2luZy4gV2UgZXZlbiBhc3Npc3QgeW91 IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHdpdGggPGZvbnQgY29sb3I9IiNGRjAwMDAiPjxpPkxpdmUgQ29u c3VsdGFudHM8L2k+PC9mb250PiB3aGVuZXZlciANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB5b3UgbmVlZCBo ZWxwLiA8L2I+PC9mb250PjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMuY29tL3F1ZXN0 aW9ucy5odG1sIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2Zh cS5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSI4NCIgaGVpZ2h0PSI0NyIgYWxpZ249InJpZ2h0IiANCmJvcmRlcj0iMCI+ PC9hPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MjUiIHZhbGlnbj0idG9wIj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPGZv cm0gbWV0aG9kPSJwb3N0IiBhY3Rpb249Imh0dHA6Ly9jZ2kuZ29zdWJtaXQubmV0L3BwYy9nb3N1 Ym1pdF9wcGMuY2dpIj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L2Zvcm0+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwv dGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MjUiIHZhbGlnbj0idG9wIj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxlIHdp ZHRoPSI0MjUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSIwIj4NCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0i aHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL3Nsb2dhbl9ib3guZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0i NDI1IiBoZWlnaHQ9IjUwIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIHVzZW1hcD0iI01hcCI+PG1hcCBuYW1lPSJNYXAi PjxhcmVhIHNoYXBlPSJyZWN0IiBjb29yZHM9IjI2OCw0LDQwNyw0NyIgDQpocmVmPSJodHRwOi8v d3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbSIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPjwvbWFwPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgPHRkPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjQyNSIgYm9y ZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjAiPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBi Z2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVza3RvcC9p L3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNp bmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0 cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDov L3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzLzEuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMzAiIGhlaWdodD0iMjQi PjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+ DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMzgzIj4gDQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxzcGFj aW5nPSIwIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0iNCI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8 dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0iQXJp YWwiIHNpemU9IjIiPiA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iI0ZGMDAwMCI+R2V0IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGEgaGlnaCByYXRpbmcgZm9yIHRoZSBzZWFyY2ggZW5naW5lcy48 L2ZvbnQ+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDxicj4NCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBXZSB1c2UgTWV0YSBUYWcgZ2VuZXJhdG9yIHRvIHN1 cHBseSBmb3Igb3VyIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGN1c3RvbWVy cyB0aGUgYmVzdCBNZXRhIFRhZyBjb21iaW5hdGlvbnMuIEludm9sdmluZyANCiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB0aGUgdXBkYXRlZCBmb3JtYXR0aW5nIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 cyBmcm9tIHRoZSANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBzZWFyY2ggZW5n aW5lcy4gVGhlc2UgY29tYmluYXRpb25zIGFyZSB1cGRhdGVkIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHJlZ3VsYXJseSBhbmQgZm9yIHlvdXIgY29udmVuaWVuY2UgY2FuIGJl IGVtYWlsZWQuPC9mb250PjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3Ry Pg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMSIg Ymdjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDBGRiI+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMuY29tL2lt YWdlcy90cmFuc3BhcmVudC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIGJhY2tncm91bmQ9Imh0 dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9ibHVlcGl4ZWwuZ2lmIj48aW1nIHNyYz0i aHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIx IiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjQyNSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBh ZGRpbmc9IjAiPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmls ZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVza3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhl aWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MCIg dmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9 IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4NCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzLzIu Z2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMzAiIGhlaWdodD0iMjQiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0 ZCB3aWR0aD0iMzgzIj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRo PSIxMDAlIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0iNCI+DQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9IjIiIGNvbG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIj5S ZWNlaXZlIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGF0IGxlYXN0IDIwMCBs aW5raW5nIHNpdGVzLjwvZm9udD48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJBcmlhbCIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+PGJyPg0KICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIExpbmtpbmcgcG9wdWxhcml0eSBpcyBhIGh1 Z2UgZmFjdG9yIGluIHNlYXJjaCANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBl bmdpbmUgcmFua2luZ3MuPC9mb250PjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0 aD0iMSIgYmdjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDBGRiI+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMu Y29tL2ltYWdlcy90cmFuc3BhcmVudC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFi bGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIGJhY2tncm91 bmQ9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9ibHVlcGl4ZWwuZ2lmIj48aW1n IHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdp ZHRoPSIxIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjQyNSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIg Y2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjAiPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNy Yz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVza3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9 IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRo PSI0MCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUg d2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1h Z2VzLzMuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMzAiIGhlaWdodD0iMjQiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+ DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMzgzIj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxl IHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0iNCI+ DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9IjIiPjxiPjxmb250IGNv bG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIj5TYWxlcyANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBh dmFpbGFibGUgMjQgaG91cnMgYSBkYXkhPC9mb250PjwvYj48YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgU28geW91IGNhbiBzbGVlcCwgd2Ugd2lsbCB3YXRjaCB5b3VyIHNp dGUgZXZlcnkgDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMzAgbWludXRlcyAy NCBob3VycyBhIGRheS4gSWYgeW91ciBzaXRlIGlzIHRvIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIGdvIGRvd24gd2Ugd2lsbCBub3RpZnkgeW91IHRocm91Z2ggYSBlbWFpbCBv ciANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBhbiBlbWFpbCBwYWdlLiBZb3Ug d2lsbCBuZXZlciBoYXZlIHRvIHdvcnJ5IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIGFib3V0IGxvc2luZyBzYWxlcyE8L2ZvbnQ+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90YWJsZT4NCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJ TkRPV1MvRGVza3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90 ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PC90YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwv dHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgYmFj a2dyb3VuZD0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYi PjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbS9pbWFnZXMvYmx1ZXBpeGVsLmdp ZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PGltZyANCnNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVy cy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjQy NSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjAiPg0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRo PSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVz a3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiPiANCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2Vs bHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0i aHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzLzQuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMzAiIGhlaWdo dD0iMjQiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMzgzIj4gDQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNl bGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0iNCI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGZvbnQgZmFj ZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9IjIiIGNvbG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIj5XZSANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSBwaG9uZSBhbnl0aW1lLjwvZm9udD48 Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJBcmlhbCIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+PGJyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIFlvdSBjYW4gYWx3YXlzIHJlYWNoIHVzIGlmIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhbnkgcXVlc3Rp b25zIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIG9yIHByb2JsZW1zIHdpdGgg dGhlIHNlcnZpY2UuIFdlIGhhdmUgYSB0b2xsIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIGZyZWUgdGVsZXBob25lIG51bWJlciB3aGVyZSB5b3UgYXJlIGFibGUgdG8gDQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgc3BlYWsgd2l0aCBhIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZl LjwvZm9udD48L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RhYmxlPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGJnY29sb3I9 IiMwMDAwRkYiPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJmaWxlOi8vL0MlN0MvV0lORE9XUy9EZXNrdG9wL2kvdHJhbnNw YXJlbnQuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIj48L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RhYmxlPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJj cmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjxp bWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbS9pbWFnZXMvYmx1ZXBpeGVsLmdpZiIg d2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PGltZyANCnNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5j b20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSI0MjUiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD0iNDI1 IiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0iMCI+DQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9 IjEiIGJnY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwRkYiPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJmaWxlOi8vL0MlN0MvV0lORE9XUy9EZXNr dG9wL2kvdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIj48L3RkPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjQwIiB2YWxpZ249InRvcCI+IA0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD0iMTAwJSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxs c3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjQiPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbS9pbWFnZXMvNS5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIzMCIgaGVpZ2h0 PSIyNCI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIzODMiPiANCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2Vs bHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48Zm9udCBmYWNl PSJBcmlhbCIgc2l6ZT0iMiIgY29sb3I9IiNGRjAwMDAiPkhhdmUgDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgdmlhYmlsaXR5IHRvIGFsbCBzZWFyY2ggZW5naW5lcy48L2ZvbnQ+ PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9IjIiPjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICBTdWJtaXNzaW9uIGlzIHNlbnQgdG8gMTU1MCBzZWFyY2ggZW5naW5lcyBhbmQg DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZGlyZWN0b3JpZXMgZGFpbHkgaW4g b3JkZXIgdG8gYXZvaWQgaGF2aW5nIHlvdXIgDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgc2l0ZSBkaXNtaXNzZWQgYnkgYW55IG9mIHRoZSBzZWFyY2ggZW5naW5lcy48L2ZvbnQ+ PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZG Ij48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVza3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50Lmdp ZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwv dHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMu Y29tL2ltYWdlcy9ibHVlcGl4ZWwuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iNDI1IiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjQy NSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjAiPg0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRo PSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVz a3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiPiANCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2Vs bHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0i aHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzLzYuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMzAiIGhlaWdo dD0iMjQiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMzgzIj4gDQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNl bGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0iNCI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGZvbnQgZmFj ZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9IjIiPjxiPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIj5TaXRlIA0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFByb2JsZW1zPzwvZm9udD48YnI+DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC9iPk5vIG5lZWQgdG8gd29ycnkuIE91ciBNZW1i ZXJzIGhhdmUgYWNjZXNzIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHRvIGEg U2l0ZSBUcmFjZXIgdGhhdCBpcyB1cGRhdGVkIGRhaWx5IHdoaWNoIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHNob3cgdGhlIHNpdGWScyBmdW5jdGlvbmluZyBhbmQgaWYgdGhl cmUgYXJlIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGFueSBwcm9ibGVtcyB3 aWxsIHNob3cgeW91IGhvdyB0byByZXBhaXIgdGhlbS48L2ZvbnQ+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90 YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDov L3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL3RyYW5zcGFyZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhl aWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICA8dGQ+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2ViY3Jhd2xlcnMuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9ibHVl cGl4ZWwuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iNDI1IiBoZWlnaHQ9IjEiPjwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRk PiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjQyNSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBj ZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjAiPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIj MDAwMEZGIj48aW1nIHNyYz0iZmlsZTovLy9DJTdDL1dJTkRPV1MvRGVza3RvcC9pL3RyYW5zcGFy ZW50LmdpZiIgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSI0MCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNl bGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJj cmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzLzcuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMzAiIGhlaWdodD0iMjQiPjwvdGQ+DQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iMzgzIj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBj ZWxscGFkZGluZz0iNCI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwiIHNpemU9 IjIiPjxiPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIjRkYwMDAwIj5TcGVhayANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICB3aXRoIGV4cGVydHM8L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvYj5EaXNjdXNzIHRoZSBsYXRlc3Qgc2VhcmNoIGVuZ2luZSBob3cg dG+ScyANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICB3aXRoIGV4cGVydHMgaW4g dGhlIGFyZWEgb2Ygc2VhcmNoIGVuZ2luZSBvcHRpbWl6YXRpb24uIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvZm9udD48L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RhYmxlPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQg d2lkdGg9IjEiIGJnY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwRkYiPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJmaWxlOi8vL0MlN0MvV0lORE9X Uy9EZXNrdG9wL2kvdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIj48L3RkPg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3Rh YmxlPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNy Yz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdpZHRo PSI0MjUiIGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQ+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIDx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD0iNDI1IiBib3JkZXI9IjAiIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPSIwIiBj ZWxscGFkZGluZz0iMCI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjEiIGJnY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwRkYiPjxpbWcgc3Jj PSJmaWxlOi8vL0MlN0MvV0lORE9XUy9EZXNrdG9wL2kvdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0i MSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIj48L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9 IjQwIiB2YWxpZ249InRvcCI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0YWJsZSB3 aWR0aD0iMTAwJSIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjQiPg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRyPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgPHRkPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LndlYmNyYXdsZXJzLmNvbS9pbWFn ZXMvOC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSIzMCIgaGVpZ2h0PSIyNCI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90YWJsZT4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgPHRkIHdpZHRoPSIzODMiPiANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGFibGUg d2lkdGg9IjEwMCUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMCIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPSI0Ij4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJBcmlhbCIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+PGI+PGZvbnQgY29s b3I9IiNGRjAwMDAiPllhaG9vISANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBz dWJtaXNzaW9uLjwvZm9udD48YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PC9iPldlIHdpbGwgc3VibWl0IHlvdXIgc2l0ZSB0byBZYWhvbyEgYWZ0ZXIgDQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY2FyZWZ1bCBhbmFsaXphdGlvbiBvbiB0aGUgY2F0ZWdv cnkgdGhhdCB3aWxsIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGJlc3QgZml0 IHdpdGggWWFob28hIDwvZm9udD48L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg PC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RhYmxlPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9 IjEiIGJnY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwRkYiPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJmaWxlOi8vL0MlN0MvV0lORE9XUy9EZXNr dG9wL2kvdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQuZ2lmIiB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIj48L3RkPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RhYmxlPg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90cj4NCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0cj4gDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZD48aW1nIHNyYz0iaHR0 cDovL3d3dy53ZWJjcmF3bGVycy5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2JsdWVwaXhlbC5naWYiIHdpZHRoPSI0MjUi IGhlaWdodD0iMSI+PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgPC90YWJsZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAg ICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjE1NSIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3Ai PiZuYnNwOzwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIDx0ZCB3aWR0aD0iNDI1IiB2YWxpZ249InRvcCI+ Jm5ic3A7PC90ZD4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8dHI+IA0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICA8dGQgd2lkdGg9IjU4MCIgdmFsaWduPSJ0b3AiIGNvbHNwYW49IjIiPiANCiAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9IkFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRp Y2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiIHNpemU9Ii0yIj5UbyANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGJlIHBlcm1h bmVudGx5IHJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSBvdXIgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LCBjbGljayByZXBseSBhbmQgDQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBlbnRlciBSRU1PVkUgaW4gdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgYm94LiBBbnkgb3Ro ZXIgbWV0aG9kIFdJTEwgTk9UIGdldCANCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIHlvdSByZW1vdmVkISA8 L2ZvbnQ+PC9kaXY+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvdGQ+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8L3RyPg0KICAg ICAgICAgIDwvdGFibGU+DQogICAgICAgIDwvZGl2Pg0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50 ZXIiPjwvZGl2Pg0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjwvZGl2Pg0KICAgICAgICA8 cD48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIiBzaXplPSIyIiBjb2xv cj0iIzAwMDAzMyI+IA0KICAgICAgICAgIDwvZm9udD48L3A+DQogICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgIDwv dHI+DQogICAgPHRyIGhlaWdodD0iMTAiPiANCiAgICAgIDx0ZCB2YWxpZ249ImJvdHRvbSIgY29s c3Bhbj0iMiIgcm93c3Bhbj0iMyIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjOTk5OTk5Ij4mbmJzcDsg DQogICAgICA8L3RkPg0KICAgIDwvdHI+DQogICAgPHRyIGhlaWdodD0iOCI+IDwvdHI+DQogICAg PHRyIGhlaWdodD0iNiI+IDwvdHI+DQogIDwvdGFibGU+DQogIDxmb250IGZhY2U9IkFyaWFsLCBI ZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiIGNvbG9yPSIjNjY2NjY2IiBzaXplPSIyIj5Db3B5cmlnaHQg JmNvcHk7IA0KICAyMDAwLCBHTE9CQUwyMDAwLkNPTTwvZm9udD48L2Rpdj4NCjwvQk9EWT48L0hU TUw+DQoNClthT1k3SkluTDNCQlp2MzctZXNFZXgxNS1pOGtua2lLQmZkXQ0KDQo= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 9 23:51:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5830F37B404 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leto (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GVK00D7GMMVJ9@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 04 May 2002 01:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 00:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: Difference between RELENG_* and RELENG_*_BP In-reply-to: <20020504001121.GA3310@ussenterprise.ufp.org> X-X-Sender: bandix@leto.homeportal.2wire.net To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20020503233143.S16006-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 May 2002, Leo Bicknell wrote: >At the end of the day, we need to lower the barrier to adding >documentation, while increasing the quality. Far from an easy task. I agree with your point. It would be nice to break down barriers to documentation. However, I don't think any of the suggestions so far are feasible, for reasons others have already point out. Moderated comment systems are very prone to low signal to noise ratios. They simply make it /too/ easy for any passerby to add something. This often leads to a lack of forethought on the part of the submitter. You end up with lots of poorly formatted, poorly worded hints that might, maybe help someone to get started solving their problem. This obviously doesn't help much. As for Wiki's, they're strictly the playground of crank 'computer science' theorist whack jobs. The only people who post to Wiki's are those who setup and maintain Wiki's. Show me a Wiki which has made a valuable contribution to the trust of human knowledge and I'll show you Armageddon. Maybe there is a way to break down a few barriers to creating better documentation and to simplify code contributions sans commit privs. Has anyone seriously looked into setting up a Bugzilla database for FreeBSD? I know we've got gnats, but gnats doesn't really provide any of the Request for Enhancement/voting features that Bugzilla does. FreeBSD seems to have grown to a point where maybe some of Bugzilla's workflow benefits could be realized. The ability for developers and users to vote for or against a specific feature certainly wouldn't hurt. The Bugzilla database could very easily contain a docs category where users could post documentation submissions. Other users looking for something not already in the handbook or FAQ could then be directed to check the bugzilla database for submissions. There's even the possibility of a special interface to the handbook which below each section links to bugzilla entries associated with that section. Users who click through and find a documentation submission helpful could then add their vote to it so that it gets pushed up high enough that people in the documentation project see it, are aware that users out there are finding it useful, and set about incorporating it into the official documentation. Brandon D. Valentine -- "Time to resign from the human race, wipe those tears from your lovely face. Baby, wave to the man in the ol' red caboose before all hell breaks loose." - Kinky Friedman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 0: 9:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA64237B409 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 00:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leto (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GVV000NCVVRSE@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 May 2002 03:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 02:04:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: configuring X on a vaio pcg-c1vp In-reply-to: <20020508142330.O5818-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> X-X-Sender: bandix@leto.homeportal.2wire.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20020510020204.U6378-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 8 May 2002, Brandon D. Valentine wrote: >[ assuming the above evaluates as true I've attempted to redirect this >to -mobile, where it belongs ] Obviously the floodgates just opened and my mail poured forth. I am currently investigating the delay in mail propagation between smtp.comcast.net and hub.freebsd.org (the only MX I seem to have trouble reaching in a timely fashion) with their respective postmasters. Also obvious is that I failed to set my Reply-To and Bcc headers to redirect this to -mobile after finishing up the message. I'd be embarassed about it, but it seems a little silly so long after the thread was otherwise dead. I've got more important things to do than be embarassed, like figure out where the mail was for all those days. Brandon D. Valentine -- "Time to resign from the human race, wipe those tears from your lovely face. Baby, wave to the man in the ol' red caboose before all hell breaks loose." - Kinky Friedman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 8:31:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (h-66-166-75-170.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.75.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E162B37B407 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 08:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.11.6/8.11.5) id g4AFVI223623; Fri, 10 May 2002 08:31:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:31:18 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: questions@bafug.org Subject: What hardware do you use ? Message-ID: <20020510153118.GA23467@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This question came up at last night BAFUG meeting. What hardware do people use and/or recommend? Specifically, if you were going to build a machine, using commonly available parts and just to run a generic kernel, what ethernet, video, motherboards, etc, would you use and/or recommend? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 9:10:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (wi4d22.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.101.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CAB137B401 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AD771AF52; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:10:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 18:10:30 +0200 From: Matthias Buelow To: Josef Grosch Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@bafug.org Subject: Re: What hardware do you use ? Message-ID: <20020510161030.GA22703@reiher.informatik.uni-wuerzburg> References: <20020510153118.GA23467@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020510153118.GA23467@mooseriver.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Grosch writes: >This question came up at last night BAFUG meeting. What hardware do people >use and/or recommend? Specifically, if you were going to build a machine, >using commonly available parts and just to run a generic kernel, what >ethernet, video, motherboards, etc, would you use and/or recommend? The most reliable machine I ever had (and still have) is a VAXstation 3100, running NetBSD. That's rather off-topic wrt your question though but it's my opinion that whatever off-the-shelf PC hardware you buy these days, you'll never reach the robustness of the well designed and engineered minis and workstations from about 10-15 years ago. --mkb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 9:17: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC1937B415 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.nlsystems.com ([62.49.251.130] helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 176D4c-000H0R-0U; Fri, 10 May 2002 17:16:50 +0100 Received: from herring (herring [10.0.0.2]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.12.3/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g4AGGnvO027746; Fri, 10 May 2002 17:16:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:16:49 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Josef Karthauser Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soft interrupts In-Reply-To: <20020509223740.GC8889@genius.tao.org.uk> Message-ID: <20020510171511.B27718-100000@herring.nlsystems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 9 May 2002, Josef Karthauser wrote: > Do we have soft interrupts? > > Here's a bit of code from the NetBSD usb stack, and I'm trying to work > out what it would be in FreeBSDland. > > sc->sc_bus->soft = softintr_establish(IPL_SOFTNET, > sc->sc_bus->methods->soft_intr, sc->sc_bus); > if (sc->sc_bus->soft == NULL) { > printf("%s: can't register softintr\n", USBDEVNAME(sc->sc_dev)); > sc->sc_dying = 1; > USB_ATTACH_ERROR_RETURN; > } > > Can someone point me to a man page please? Try using taskqueue.9. You don't need to create a new queue - just use the system queue 'taskqueue_swi' which executes tasks on a SWI thread (on current). -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 9:18:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114E237B400 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 8D19B2C3; Fri, 10 May 2002 17:17:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:17:52 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Peter Wemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Soft interrupts Message-ID: <20020510161752.GA977@genius.tao.org.uk> References: <20020509223740.GC8889@genius.tao.org.uk> <20020510003901.085A7380A@overcee.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020510003901.085A7380A@overcee.wemm.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 05:39:01PM -0700, Peter Wemm wrote: > > You probably want to have a good look at usb_ethersubr.c - it does this > sort of thing already, but for different reasons. On FreeBSD, the usb > hardware interrupts ran (pre-SMPng) as bio, not net. All of the > assumptions, problems and workarounds for this from pre-SMPng are now > invalid or irrelevant. usb_ethersubr.c can be gutted right down now > since splnet and splbio are irrelevant. The problems that NetBSD > has to deal with are no longer the same for us. The softint stuff > is probably harmful for us because it would mean an *extra* context > switch. (from the uhci/ohci ithread to the swinet ithread). > We still need to support -stable though, which has issues similar to NetBSD's. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 9:18:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enternet.hu (smtp.enternet.hu [62.112.192.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6280037B411; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elischer.org (3e70d2af.dialin.enternet.hu [62.112.210.175]) by smtp.enternet.hu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4AGGUr51044; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:16:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Message-ID: <3CDBE300.2AED36C2@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:10:56 -0700 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Mini Cc: Terry Lambert , Michael Smith , Gordon Tetlow , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> <3CDAF1A6.13DB883D@mindspring.com> <20020509151603.F43682@stylus.haikugeek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Mini wrote: > > > > Maybe you could ask Archie or Ambrisko to clarify the feature > > you're trying to replace, and then ask Mike about the code > > needed to do that? ehem.. WHO wrote that? :-) My original aim was to allow a system to boot successfully using a sequence of possible specifications, assuming that one of the filesystems quoted (possibly the first) was so trashed that you couldn't read any files from it. You also had to have: 1/ a way of setting the boot specification list from the running system. 2/ a simple and unlikely-to-break method of ensuring that if the boot did NOT succeed, it did something DIFFERENT next time. 3/ the ability to read the specification information regardless of the state of the first filesystem (e.g. completely trashed). 4/ The ability to specify a filesystem on another planet^H^H^H^H^H^Hdisk. Unfortunatly I couldn't get away from having the boot1 on the first disk, but possibly that could be fixed too. At least the boot1 code is not in the filesystem itself and therefore hopefully less likely to be trashed. My decisions were: A) make boot0 do the actual load of the spec from block1 immediatly after it had read block0.. All teh registers were set up correctly to read the next block. block1 is almost alway unused, and if it was used it wouldn't have the correct magic numbers and would be ignored. B) If the magic numbers matched.. Copy the first spec string, skipping initial NULLS to above the top of the stack, for retreival by boot1 (it could get at it as if it were an argument) C) ZERO out that string, now the NEXT string is the first string. D) write the block back using the same registers, while still in boot0. E) Boot1 retrieved the string from the stack. .. Julian > > Gordon is working on rewriting nextboot(8) so that it works again. I > shouldn't have to tell you to RTFM, Terry. ;P > > -- > Jonathan Mini > http://www.haikugeek.com > > "He who is not aware of his ignorance will be only misled by his knowledge." > -- Richard Whatley > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- +------------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ julian@elischer.org +------>x USA \ a very strange | ( OZ ) \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 9:19:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.enternet.hu (smtp.enternet.hu [62.112.192.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E305637B406 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elischer.org (3e70d2af.dialin.enternet.hu [62.112.210.175]) by smtp.enternet.hu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4AGGQr51040; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:16:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Message-ID: <3CDBDB72.FC3C9CB7@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:38:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > On Thu, 9 May 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > > > I've finally learned enough forth to put together a diff to implement some > > > nextboot functionality in the loader. > > > > > > Basically, the loader peeks into the first line of /boot/nextboot.conf to > > > see if nextboot_enable="YES" is there. If it is, it reads the entire > > > config, then rewrites the first line to nextboot_enable="NO" > > > > Don't do this. Put the variables directly into loader.conf. There's no > > need for another file. > > There needs to be another file regardless. How else am I going to know > which are supposed to be used on the next boot and which are normal values > that the user has put in /boot/loader.conf? I wrote the original 'nextboot to use block 1 (ususally unused) to avoid under all circumstances writing into the filesystem. Also, part of the weakness of the current system is that it presumes you know which IS the root filesystem. The original nextboot took as part of the information it loaded from block 1 (assumuing it checked out as a boot-spec block) the partition to use as the root. If the root partition is totally hosed you may not be able to READ /boot/{anything}. The original nextboot was really a local hack to fix a local problem, but I was thinking of making it more 'acceptable' to the world as a whole by making it look for a DOS partition of some type, and {length 1,location 1} before loading information. I deliberatly kept this information outside the filesystem. > > -gordon > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- +------------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ julian@elischer.org +------>x USA \ a very strange | ( OZ ) \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 9:37: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from 12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com (12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com [12.234.96.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3AE37B42B for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 12-234-96-171.client.attbi.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F362DA900; Fri, 10 May 2002 09:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:38:51 -0700 From: Jonathan Mini To: Julian Elischer Cc: Terry Lambert , Michael Smith , Gordon Tetlow , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff Message-ID: <20020510093851.G43682@stylus.haikugeek.com> References: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> <3CDAF1A6.13DB883D@mindspring.com> <20020509151603.F43682@stylus.haikugeek.com> <3CDBE300.2AED36C2@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3CDBE300.2AED36C2@elischer.org>; from julian@elischer.org on Fri, May 10, 2002 at 08:10:56AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer [julian@elischer.org] wrote : > ehem.. > WHO wrote that? > :-) I was talking about the code that James Harris and myself wrote for Array Networks, which was contributed back to FreeBSD. It allows the loader(8) to change existing files on a UFS filesystem. We wrote it so that we could build a fall-back method for an OS upgrade. -- Jonathan Mini http://www.haikugeek.com "He who is not aware of his ignorance will be only misled by his knowledge." -- Richard Whatley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 10: 3:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B29337B40A for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 10:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0211.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.211] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176Dne-0002iY-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 10:03:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDBFD3C.37C51A8E@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:02:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Gordon Tetlow , Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: <3CDBDB72.FC3C9CB7@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > I wrote the original 'nextboot to use block 1 (ususally unused) > to avoid under all circumstances writing into the filesystem. > > Also, part of the weakness of the current system is that it presumes you know > which IS the root filesystem. The original nextboot took as part of the > information it loaded from block 1 (assumuing it checked out as a boot-spec > block) the partition to use as the root. If the root partition is totally hosed > you may not be able to READ /boot/{anything}. The original nextboot > was really a local hack to fix a local problem, but I was thinking of making it > more > 'acceptable' to the world as a whole by making it look for a DOS partition of > some type, and {length 1,location 1} before loading information. > > I deliberatly kept this information outside the filesystem. If you always write the blocks back to where you got them, there's no real difference for a small file. Adjacent disk blocks are adjacent disk blocks, and it doesn't matter how they are located (hard coded constant value, or math on hard coded constant values). In general, what you want is a read-only boot FS that has only the boot code and the loader stuff in it. The FORTH fwrite code (if Jon Mini and James really did use my code for part of it) ignores readability/writeability not enforced by hardware. The *only* think you want to be writing is those adjacent blocks, which are associated with a file more as a convenience than anything else. The "nextboot" command itself needs to blow the file contents directly; unfortunately, now that we do not have two devices that reference the disk (one for mounting, one for blowing file contents directly, as in this case), this means mounting the boot FS read/write, blowing the file contents, and then mounting it read-only again. The (length l, location l) idea is the same thing LILO does; it is much better to simply compute the location off constant FS information, which is going to be there (and constant) anyway. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 10:23:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E025837B403; Fri, 10 May 2002 10:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0211.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.211] helo=mindspring.com) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176E72-0004TH-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 10:23:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDC01ED.A188796F@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:22:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Jonathan Mini , Michael Smith , Gordon Tetlow , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: <200205091911.g49JBaI3002178@mass.dis.org> <3CDAF1A6.13DB883D@mindspring.com> <20020509151603.F43682@stylus.haikugeek.com> <3CDBE300.2AED36C2@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Maybe you could ask Archie or Ambrisko to clarify the feature > > > you're trying to replace, and then ask Mike about the code > > > needed to do that? > > ehem.. > WHO wrote that? > :-) Me. My memory sucks for the time before I was there... ;^). I thought it was Archie and Doug. > My original aim was to allow a system to boot successfully using a > sequence of possible specifications, assuming that one of the filesystems quoted > (possibly the first) was so trashed that you couldn't read any files from it. > > You also had to have: > 1/ a way of setting the boot specification list from the running system. > 2/ a simple and unlikely-to-break method of ensuring that if the boot did NOT > succeed, it did something DIFFERENT next time. > 3/ the ability to read the specification information regardless of the state > of the first filesystem (e.g. completely trashed). > 4/ The ability to specify a filesystem on another planet^H^H^H^H^H^Hdisk. > > Unfortunatly I couldn't get away from having the boot1 on the first > disk, but possibly that could be fixed too. At least the boot1 code is not in > the filesystem itself and therefore hopefully less likely to be trashed. The boot0 stuff is "just another filesystem". Topologically, I think, ther eis really no difference. It's trying to "make B safe by using A instead"... which doesn't "make A safe as well". > My decisions were: > A) make boot0 do the actual load of the spec from block1 immediatly after it > had read block0.. All teh registers were set up correctly to read the next > block. > block1 is almost alway unused, and if it was used it wouldn't have the correct > magic numbers and would be ignored. This is really not an option any more. The block is used, and there is no free reserve space (the new 3.1 tools bloat the code up 96 bytes more than will fit, actually). > B) If the magic numbers matched.. > Copy the first spec string, skipping initial NULLS to above the top of the > stack, > for retreival by boot1 (it could get at it as if it were an argument) It's actually just as easy to make boot1 go read it itself, assuming boot1 has the ability to read. It also decouples it somewhat, which (IMO) is a good thing. This is actually the same effect they get from using a seperate file, which gets rewritten, rather than hacking "YES" vs. "TRY" vs. "NO" in a common .conf file (which makes me incredibly nervous, just like Mike's complaint about it). > C) ZERO out that string, now the NEXT string is the first string. I personally don't like this. You were able to get away with this because, once empty, the boot code fell back to non-"nextboot" behaviour. In any case, you would be in an infinite reboot cycle, so it would not save you. The only thing that would maybe save you is if the the default for boot0 in the case of an empty list with a *seperate* enable bit, would ATX power off the machine (voluntarily turn into a doorstop, instead of waiting for abnormaly wear to turn you into a doorstop whether you wanted it or not). The same effect is achieved by pushing the list on a stack, popping the head, and adding it to the tail, using the head as your device. This has the added advantage of keeping the file length the same, so that the FORTH fwrite doesn't have to learn about extending or truncating files, so that the linbstand FS code can remain much less complicated than it would otherwise have to be. 8-(. > D) write the block back using the same registers, while still in boot0. We tried this as well. After hacking out about 160 bytes of data, and using the old (4.4) toolchain, which didn't bloat the code like the 3.1 toolchain seems to do, we had enough space left to make the assembly code self-modifying to be able to toggle the BIOS code between "read" and "write"... which let us put it in the boot code in the boot sector, rather than in the boot code that had to be read out of the FS itself (we were trying to revive your design). But the complexity of doing this was too high, and the patient died. Even had we been entirely successful with this approach (nowhere to write the data, now that we can write it), I think we would have scrapped it, because it would have made the code very, very difficelt to understand (what with it hacking INT 13 arguments around in the code, and dealing with carry examination x86 instructions). It would have also lost us one of the greatest benefits of the FORTH code, which is the portability of things like this to other platforms. > E) Boot1 retrieved the string from the stack. Yeah, that's not incredibly relevent. With file I/O, the same information can be read from a file by the FORTH interpreter, and it's real easy to break the string list with space seperators into elements, the first of which is stores seperately, the remainder of which is pushed on a stack, and the popped, seperate storage added, and then written back out. It can all take place in the moral equivalent of "boot1", but in a way that's a lot more portable for Alpha, PPC, SPARC, etc.. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 11: 9:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285C637B401; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4AHxXO95849; Fri, 10 May 2002 10:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 647A311E511; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632F711A572; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:09:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Terry Lambert Cc: Julian Elischer , Jonathan Mini , Michael Smith , Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <3CDC01ED.A188796F@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Picking a random message to respond to... On Fri, 10 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > It's actually just as easy to make boot1 go read it itself, assuming > boot1 has the ability to read. It also decouples it somewhat, which > (IMO) is a good thing. This is actually the same effect they get from > using a seperate file, which gets rewritten, rather than hacking "YES" > vs. "TRY" vs. "NO" in a common .conf file (which makes me incredibly > nervous, just like Mike's complaint about it). This is not intended to be used in an "Oh Crap, I just lost a disk and need to recover situation". This is to be used in the following situation (at least, this is how I envisioned it): I have machine A co-located far far away with no console access. I want to put a new kernel on it, but am nervous about what happens if the machine doesn't come back up because I botched the new kernel. I use nextboot to make my new kernel only boot once, in case where the machine hangs and needs to be rebooted (maybe I can tell a noc monkey to reboot the sucker), it'll then fall back to my known good kernel. There are some huge assumptions on my part that I should have spelled out a bit more in my initial email: A) you are going to be using nextboot on a consistent filesystem (after all you rebooted the box, it should (in theory) be a consistent filesystem when the loader goes and rewrites the /boot/nextboot.conf) B) this wasn't to do anything more clever than pass a few args to loader for one shot. C) this was intended to be used by developers who know what they are doing and would like a little extra security and don't want to have to pay a noc monkey to try and fix their configuration over the phone. I've done that waaaay too many times than I care to remember. If this feature was in there, I could just tell them to reboot the box, and it would come back to the kernel that I know was good. Again, please look at it as a convenience, not something that will save your ass. It will happily let you shoot yourself in the foot, but hey so will rm(1). -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 11:11:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79ED037B405; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4AI1vO95972; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 30E1811E511; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA2911A572; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Terry Lambert Cc: Julian Elischer , Jonathan Mini , Michael Smith , Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <3CDC01ED.A188796F@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would also like to clarify that I never knew that there was a nextboot(8) functionality. Don't look at it as I'm trying to reimplement it. I never knew it existed in the first place =) -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 11:15:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail16.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDAA37B403 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22610 invoked from network); 10 May 2002 18:15:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail16.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 10 May 2002 18:15:22 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4AIF4F43366; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:15:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3CDBE300.2AED36C2@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:14:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow , Michael Smith , Terry Lambert , Jonathan Mini Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-May-2002 Julian Elischer wrote: > You also had to have: > 1/ a way of setting the boot specification list from the running system. > 2/ a simple and unlikely-to-break method of ensuring that if the boot did NOT > succeed, it did something DIFFERENT next time. > 3/ the ability to read the specification information regardless of the state > of the first filesystem (e.g. completely trashed). If / is trashed, you can't load a kernel or loader from it anyways. > 4/ The ability to specify a filesystem on another planet^H^H^H^H^H^Hdisk. Something you've missed in this version of nextboot is: 5/ work on more than just i386 > My decisions were: > A) make boot0 do the actual load of the spec from block1 immediatly after it > had read block0.. All teh registers were set up correctly to read the next > block. > block1 is almost alway unused, and if it was used it wouldn't have the > correct > magic numbers and would be ignored. This only works on i386. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 11:29: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pollux.cse.buffalo.edu (pollux.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.35.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4073F37B400 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rc27@localhost) by pollux.cse.buffalo.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.1) id g4AISsv03640; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:28:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Ramkumar Chinchani To: Terry Lambert Cc: Subject: Re: kevent subsystem In-Reply-To: <3CDB6759.41A76480@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am asking more in terms of the posix event logging mechanism being implemented in Linux 2.5.x kernel. http://evlog.sourceforge.net/ How does the kevent mechanism of event notification and handling compare to this scheme? It appears to me that the Linux event logging merely supports logging of events in a different way that already exists via klogd. This is a more passive technique and requiring disk usage overheads in case of huge and rapid audits. On the other hand, kevent allows more active event registering and handling... What would be the pros and cons of both these techniques? Thanks. -Ram ==> Terry Lambert /11:23pm/May 9, 2002 <== [Ramkumar Chinchani wrote: [> Has the POSIX event standard implemeted in FreeBSD? POSIX events are logged to [> a file. Which would give a better performance, assuming kevent can register more [> events? [ [Are you talking about POSIX persistent queueing, of the type not [implemented by the POSIX printing model, based on Palladium out [of Project Athena? [ [THat's more like a "Tuxedo" replacement, than anything else. It's [not really comparable to kevent (IMO). [ [If you meant something else, you might want to ask a clearer question [(i.e. give the standards information for the "event standard" you [are talking about; there are so many to choose from, e.g. queued [signal delivery, etc.). [ [-- Terry [ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 11:48:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.122.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5161F37B404 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.11.3/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g4AImCN46631; Fri, 10 May 2002 11:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:48:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Josef Grosch Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What hardware do you use ? In-Reply-To: <20020510153118.GA23467@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: <20020510112835.B45651-100000@resnet.uoregon.edu> X-All-Your-Base: are belong to us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Removing crosspost. On Fri, 10 May 2002, Josef Grosch wrote: > This question came up at last night BAFUG meeting. What hardware do people > use and/or recommend? Specifically, if you were going to build a machine, > using commonly available parts and just to run a generic kernel, what > ethernet, video, motherboards, etc, would you use and/or recommend? I was going to go to the meeting too, I have a long list of these. :) I'm mainly lookigin at server-class stuff here. In somewhat chronological order ... 1) At eGroups/Y!Groups we used Intel L440GX+ motherboards. These are now (sadly) discontinued, but supported slotted P2 and P3 CPUs. Very solid if you used approved memory. (we had a famous incident with a hardware vendor using non-spec memory...) Hard disks where the IBM Deskstars before they went to crap. The kernels had mbuf(cluster)s jacked up and ran 3.2-STABLE of some generation. After the merger they converted over to the standard Y! kernel-from-hell. 2) At my current employer we largely split into to machine types: a) The replicatable servers (webs & mid level logic) are on tyan S2510 and S2518 in the rackable systems half-1U box. They use the ServerWorks chipset with the busted ATA controller, so make sure you use SCSI or get the ATA RAID version to avoid it. b) HP Netservers of the last two generations, largely LPr, LP1000r and LP2000r. The HPs are pretty well built, although their onboard management card is half-useless with any decent terminal server. They do support IPMI so you can (largely) avoid having to use that thing. Most machines are dual proc 866 or 900MHz P3 with 1-2 GB RAM. They usually run linnex but we have a few bsd boxes sprinkled about. 3) I demoed a new Intel SCB2 motherboard in their SR1200 chassis a month or so ago. Very, very nice machine. Ran really fast with the onboard fasttrack ATA RAID (also available in SCSI). Also supports the full range of IPMI monitoring features and even has rj45 serial connections. 4) I have a dual AMD 1400 demo coming... eventually. In summary: . The Intel motherboards are quite good. You get what you pay for. They usually have onboard everything, including dual fxp's nowadays. But they have the ServerWorks curse. . Tyan makes some interesting stuff, but as with all ServerWorks based stuff, stay far, far away from the base ATA33 controller. Even the cheap FastTrack ATA RAID they put on is ATA100 and is plenty fast (and supported!) . As soon as I get my hands on the AMD stuff I'll consider a recommendation. :) Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 12:25:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0478937B400; Fri, 10 May 2002 12:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g4AJOpb5094358; Fri, 10 May 2002 15:24:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:24:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Ramkumar Chinchani Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, arr@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kevent subsystem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This looks much more like a syslog/audit/... mechanism, and not really much like keven, which is about applications getting event notification on system objects. You might be interested in talking to Andrew Reiter about his work on the TrustedBSD audit framework, but otherwise I'm not really sure we have something like this in the works right now. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services On Fri, 10 May 2002, Ramkumar Chinchani wrote: > > I am asking more in terms of the posix event logging mechanism being > implemented in Linux 2.5.x kernel. > > http://evlog.sourceforge.net/ > > How does the kevent mechanism of event notification and handling compare > to this scheme? > > It appears to me that the Linux event logging merely supports logging of > events in a different way that already exists via klogd. This is a more > passive technique and requiring disk usage overheads in case of huge and > rapid audits. > > On the other hand, kevent allows more active event registering and > handling... > > What would be the pros and cons of both these techniques? > > Thanks. > > -Ram > > ==> Terry Lambert /11:23pm/May 9, 2002 <== > > [Ramkumar Chinchani wrote: > [> Has the POSIX event standard implemeted in FreeBSD? POSIX events are logged to > [> a file. Which would give a better performance, assuming kevent can register more > [> events? > [ > [Are you talking about POSIX persistent queueing, of the type not > [implemented by the POSIX printing model, based on Palladium out > [of Project Athena? > [ > [THat's more like a "Tuxedo" replacement, than anything else. It's > [not really comparable to kevent (IMO). > [ > [If you meant something else, you might want to ask a clearer question > [(i.e. give the standards information for the "event standard" you > [are talking about; there are so many to choose from, e.g. queued > [signal delivery, etc.). > [ > [-- Terry > [ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 13:13:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from viola.sinor.ru (viola.sinor.ru [217.70.106.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E71637B405; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tlg5-ppp59.sibnet.ru (tlg5-ppp59.sibnet.ru [217.70.97.60]) by viola.sinor.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05084; Sat, 11 May 2002 03:13:01 +0700 Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 03:12:56 +0700 (NOVST) From: "Semen A. Ustimenko" X-X-Sender: semenu@def.the.net To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Flood, Jim" Subject: NULLFS-related possible deadlock + fix proposal Message-ID: <20020511005932.S1705-100000@def.the.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Preface: Same directory is null-mounted to "/mnt" and "/mnt2". The directory contain "dir/foofile". Two processes concurently lookup "/mnt/dir/foofile" and "/mnt2/dir/foofile". Action: P1: in lookup(): in VOP_LOOKUP(dvp (== "/mnt/dir"), "foofile"): in null_lookup(): in null_node_create(): in malloc() | getnewvnode() | somewhere(): in tsleep() -> P1 is preempted by P2 (Note, that "foofile"'s lower vnode is locked by P1, "dir"'s lower vnode is unlocked, thus "/mnt2/dir" is also unlocked) P2: in lookup(): in VOP_LOOKUP(dvp (== "/mnt2/dir"), "foofile): in null_lookup(): in VOP_LOOKUP(lowerdvp, "foofile"): in tsleep(), waiting for "foofile"'s lower vnode, held by P1 (Note, the "/mnt2/dir"'s vnode and thus its lower vnode is still locked by P2, the "foofile"'s lower vnode is locked by P1) P1: in lookup(): in vrele(dvp (== "/mnt/dir")): in vn_lock(dvp): in tsleep(), waiting for "/mnt/dir"'s lower vnode, held by P2 DEADLOCK... Analysis: The lookup() routine can call vrele(), in its turn vrele() can vn_lock() parent directory, while holding lock on file from this directory. This isn't a problem for nonstacking FSes as vrele() will only vn_lock if it were the last reference. For NULLFS this is a problem because completely different vnodes can share the lock structure. Solution: Make vn_lock() in vrele() lock vnode only LK_THISLAYER. Obviously, the NULLFS and other stacking FSes will have to deal with this in their VOP_INACTIVE() handlers. This changes won't touch real FSes as they ignore the LK_THISLAYER, don't they? Bye! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 13:42:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAEAE37B406; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g4AKg6b5095052; Fri, 10 May 2002 16:42:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:42:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, developers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Request for submissions: FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last call for submissions due this afternoon. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, developers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Request for submissions: FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report (fwd) Just a reminder that the status reports are due tomorrow afternoon. Given that it's been three months since the last, I'd like to have as many projects reporting information as possible. A lot has happened in three months, so there shouldn't be a problem finding things to say :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 17:50:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, developers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Request for submissions: FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report This is a solicitation for submissions for the February 2002 - April 2002 FreeBSD Bi-Monthly Development Status Report. All submissions are due by May 10, 2002. Submissions should be made by filling out the template found at: http://www.FreeBSD.org/news/status/report-sample.xml Submissions must then be e-mailed to the following address: robert+freebsd.monthly@cyrus.watson.org For automatic processing. Reports must be submitted in the XML format described, or they will be silently dropped. Submissions made to other e-mail addresses will be ignored. Status reports should be submitted once per project, although project developers may choose to submit additional reports on specific sub-projects of substantial size. Status reports are typically one or two short paragraphs, but the text may be up to 20 lines in length. Submissions are welcome on a variety of topics relating to FreeBSD, including development, documentation, advocacy, and development processes. Prior status reports may be viewed at: http://www.FreeBSD.org/news/status/ (Yes, I'm aware that February through April is three months, not two months, but for personal reasons, I was unavailable to solicit reports at the end of March. Please go ahead and cover the three-month period, and ignore the fact that the report is entitled bi-monthly, that's because this is a form letter.) Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 13:43:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FF437B407; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0166.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.166] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176HEM-0006eN-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:43:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDC30BF.EC1BC7BD@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:42:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow , Michael Smith , Jonathan Mini Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > On 10-May-2002 Julian Elischer wrote: > > You also had to have: [ ... ] > > 4/ The ability to specify a filesystem on another planet^H^H^H^H^H^Hdisk. > > Something you've missed in this version of nextboot is: > > 5/ work on more than just i386 [ ... ] > This only works on i386. Now is when I point out that the original nextboot predates the ELF format conversion, as well as the new FORTH based loader code... which predates running on anything other than i386 anyway (unless you count my Motorolla Powerstack port, or Vogel's SPARC port, back before the 4.4-Lite integration). 8-) 8-) 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 13:57:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E29137B408 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0166.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.166] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176HS0-0003fN-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:57:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDC340D.AC3845DE@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:56:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ramkumar Chinchani Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kevent subsystem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ramkumar Chinchani wrote: > I am asking more in terms of the posix event logging mechanism being > implemented in Linux 2.5.x kernel. > > http://evlog.sourceforge.net/ > > How does the kevent mechanism of event notification and handling compare > to this scheme? The POSIX 1003.25 draft that they are referencing: http://evlog.sourceforge.net/posix_evlog.html Is much more comparable to the BEA systems, IBM MQ-Series, or Web Methods Integration Platform, or, to point to older technology like I did in my last message, the Tuxedo Transaction Monitor. The kevent mechanism is an interleaved I/O version of the "select" or "poll" interface, with bidirectional communications being possible (e.g. definition of the selection of an accept filter, when registering for accept events, etc.). The primary benefit is that, unlike other mechansims, you can funnel all events through a single multiplexer, which means that you can handle them without stalls for different interfaces (though I have yet to see S?YSVIPC intergrated, it's possible to do). Event logging is much more of a mechanism for transaction persistance than it is a replacement for select/poll/kevent. > It appears to me that the Linux event logging merely supports logging of > events in a different way that already exists via klogd. This is a more > passive technique and requiring disk usage overheads in case of huge and > rapid audits. I think I would prefer it if you called it "POSIX 1003.25 event logging", as opposed to "Linux event logging". Standards are important, and are cross-platform. But no. It's is the basis for a reliable transactioning system. It is a fundamental building block for reliable business applications. Losing an event that encapsulates a $5M transaction is something which could break your business. > On the other hand, kevent allows more active event registering and > handling... > > What would be the pros and cons of both these techniques? They are totally different problem/solution spaces. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 14: 1:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1E437B405; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0166.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.166] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176HWL-0001iL-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:01:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDC351A.2613D382@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:01:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Ramkumar Chinchani , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, arr@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kevent subsystem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > This looks much more like a syslog/audit/... mechanism, and not really > much like keven, which is about applications getting event notification on > system objects. You might be interested in talking to Andrew Reiter > about his work on the TrustedBSD audit framework, but > otherwise I'm not really sure we have something like this in the works > right now. Sure we do. It's a source forge project. We have exactly the code he is talking about, unless someone screws up and writes non-portable code. Also, the MQ Series code from IBM appears to run on FreeBSD with Linux emulation, and the source code compiles (but good luck getting it externally to IBM, except for the client code). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 14:30:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail16.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD6237B404 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31877 invoked from network); 10 May 2002 21:30:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail16.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 10 May 2002 21:30:41 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4ALUdF44185; Fri, 10 May 2002 17:30:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3CDC30BF.EC1BC7BD@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:30:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff Cc: Jonathan Mini , Michael Smith , Gordon Tetlow , hackers@freebsd.org, Julian Elischer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-May-2002 Terry Lambert wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: >> On 10-May-2002 Julian Elischer wrote: >> > You also had to have: > > [ ... ] > >> > 4/ The ability to specify a filesystem on another planet^H^H^H^H^H^Hdisk. >> >> Something you've missed in this version of nextboot is: >> >> 5/ work on more than just i386 > > [ ... ] > >> This only works on i386. > > Now is when I point out that the original nextboot predates the ELF > format conversion, as well as the new FORTH based loader code... > which predates running on anything other than i386 anyway (unless > you count my Motorolla Powerstack port, or Vogel's SPARC port, > back before the 4.4-Lite integration). Right, and we aren't writing a direct replacement of that nextboot. We are writing a utility for FreeBSD 5.0 (and possibly 4.x.) in the year 2002 AD. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 14:53: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD8937B405 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4ALhLO05981 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 46B5211E511; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4589211A572 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 14:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:53:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there anything that is wrong with the conceptual implementation of the nextboot loader code that I've submitted? It definitely needs a code cleanup on the forth side (which I'm not qualified to do), but if there are no other objections, I'd really like to see this code committed. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 15: 5:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B08437B409; Fri, 10 May 2002 15:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0471.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.216] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176IW1-0003bj-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 15:05:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDC4408.A288FAE3@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:04:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: Jonathan Mini , Michael Smith , Gordon Tetlow , hackers@freebsd.org, Julian Elischer Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > > Now is when I point out that the original nextboot predates the ELF > > format conversion, as well as the new FORTH based loader code... > > which predates running on anything other than i386 anyway (unless > > you count my Motorolla Powerstack port, or Vogel's SPARC port, > > back before the 4.4-Lite integration). > > Right, and we aren't writing a direct replacement of that nextboot. > We are writing a utility for FreeBSD 5.0 (and possibly 4.x.) in the > year 2002 AD. I thought we were trying to retrieve the nextboot functionality lost in the ELF upgrade. My point in my last response was that criticising portability of Julian's description of what the old code was supposed to do is really silly, since FreeBSD wasn't even using ELF at the time, let alone had any other platforms integrated into the source tree. My original point was that it's a deeper utility than it seems at first glance. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 15: 9:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2723137B404 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 15:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0471.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.216] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176IaC-00012B-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 15:09:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDC450D.20F05776@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:09:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow wrote: > Is there anything that is wrong with the conceptual implementation of the > nextboot loader code that I've submitted? It definitely needs a code > cleanup on the forth side (which I'm not qualified to do), but if there > are no other objections, I'd really like to see this code committed. There should be a list, so that in a brown-out or whatever, you don't end up toggling back to the previous version accidently. You should only ever rewrite the contents of a single file, and it shouldn't be an important file. The existance/non-existance of the single file should be enough to trigger/suppress the nextboot behaviour. Don't assume that the nextboot file will be on the same disk and/or partition as the boot and other config file code. -- Together, these things will allow the new code to solve the same problem that the old code solved on the InterJet. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 15:41: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2B737B40B for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 15:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a063.otenet.gr [212.205.215.63]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4AMe5G1017214; Sat, 11 May 2002 01:40:06 +0300 (EEST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (hades [127.0.0.1]) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4AMdtg9004906; Sat, 11 May 2002 01:40:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.3/8.12.2/Submit) id g4ALEwFY004403; Sat, 11 May 2002 00:14:58 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:14:58 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Michael Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Message-ID: <20020510211458.GJ2699@hades.hell.gr> References: <20020508170215.A15872@shell.one.net> <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-05-08 17:20, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Of course, I also expect the old guard to fight this tooth and nail > with lots of dire predictions as to what will happen if anyone under > 30 gets into core or why only a long and hoary track-record truly > qualifies one for the job. As an old guardsman myself, I say ``bah!'' > to that sort of self-serving "logic" since we've already proven over > the last two rounds that experienced people are more than capable of > making mistakes or being blind to all the relevant signs and portents > when things are going off the rails. Even if it came with a penalty > of inexperience and beginner's mistakes, I wouldn't mind the fresh > energy and enthusiasm that a totally new slate would bring. It's not > like those of us in 1992 were entirely blessed with loads of > experience at doing this when we started and look what we managed to > create. This is the kind of optimism that makes FreeBSD a nice place to be around. I thought about not replying, since I am one of those young and enthusiastic inexperienced beginners that are mentioned, but IMHO everyone should read carefully what's said above. FreeBSD is developed by a team of people who have managed to work together since 1992, and by all the users who have devoted their time and efforts in making it better every day. Everyone who has contributed to this deserves to be proud of what has been accomplished. I mean, look at what we have. A complete UNIX-like operating system, along with the sources to everything, that is among the most popular and widely used UNIX systems in the world today. I don't know if I'm being too proud here, but it is fun to be a part of the team. And it's not like Mike has left the team. He just thinks that he no longer enjoys having to do the work of -core. This means that we should be both happy and sad. Sad because he has served developers and users of FreeBSD alike by being part of the team that gives a vision and focus to FreeBSD, but is no longer. Happy for him because now he will hopefully have more time to spare for other things he might find more fun to work with. I also think that this is what Sheldon was trying to say. I could be wrong, but pffff let's all give it a break. Much has been done and a lot has been achieved. We should spend out time trying our best to make more things happen. Where everyone feels that they will be more useful and still have tons of enjoying & a good time. - Giorgos PS: Oh, and before I forget... __ __ _ _ | \/ | (_) | |__ ___ | |\/| | | | | / / / -_) _ |_| |_| |_| |_\_\ \___| ( ) |/ _ _ _ __ | |_ | |_ __ _ _ _ | |__ ___ / _| ___ _ _ | _| | ' \ / _` | | ' \ | / / (_-< | _| / _ \ | '_| \__| |_||_| \__,_| |_||_| |_\_\ /__/ |_| \___/ |_| _ _ _ ___ __ __ ___ _ _ _ _ | |_ | |_ (_) _ _ __ _ / -_) \ V / / -_) | '_| | || | | _| | ' \ | | | ' \ / _` | _ \___| \_/ \___| |_| \_, | \__| |_||_| |_| |_||_| \__, | (_) |__/ |___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 18:53:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F4B37B401 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4B1heO14119; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 4376611E511; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BDB11A572; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 18:53:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <3CDC450D.20F05776@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > Is there anything that is wrong with the conceptual implementation of the > > nextboot loader code that I've submitted? It definitely needs a code > > cleanup on the forth side (which I'm not qualified to do), but if there > > are no other objections, I'd really like to see this code committed. > > There should be a list, so that in a brown-out or whatever, you > don't end up toggling back to the previous version accidently. This is not something that is meant for you to massage which root partition you are going to boot up off of. > You should only ever rewrite the contents of a single file, and > it shouldn't be an important file. Yes, that's exactly what my patch does. > The existance/non-existance of the single file should be enough > to trigger/suppress the nextboot behaviour. I can't unlink files in the loader, so the presence of such a file wouldn't help. > Don't assume that the nextboot file will be on the same disk and/or > partition as the boot and other config file code. Well, I'm assuming it's on the root partition. It would be kinda silly for it to anywhere else. > Together, these things will allow the new code to solve the same > problem that the old code solved on the InterJet. I've never heard nor seen the old code. I don't know what it did, and I don't particularly care. I did this because I thought the way Wes Peters did his implementation was rather hackish (not saying mine is any better =) and suboptimal if the machine doesn't make it to multi-user. Please refer to the commit logs from earlier this month if you don't know of the commit I'm referring to. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 19: 0:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499C637B400 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 19:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4B20Qs19371 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 19:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv3.apple.com (scv3.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 10 May 2002 18:59:50 -0700 Received: from [17.202.43.180] (minsco2.apple.com [17.202.43.180]) by scv3.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g4B20IF21601; Fri, 10 May 2002 19:00:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: conrad@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020510211458.GJ2699@hades.hell.gr> References: <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> <20020508170215.A15872@shell.one.net> <45185.1020903634@winston.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:00:16 -0700 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Conrad Minshall Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Cc: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Reading this thread I see rationale, considerate responses and a general lack of flamage. Very cool... pun intended, sorry :) -- Conrad Minshall ... conrad@apple.com ... 408 974-2749 Alternative email addresses: rad@acm.org and conrad@mac.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 19: 1:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web20902.mail.yahoo.com (web20902.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6D6737B409 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 19:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20020511020112.14416.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [218.108.151.213] by web20902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2002 19:01:12 PDT Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:01:12 -0700 (PDT) From: David Xu Subject: is it safe to temporary replace thread pcb pointer? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Bruce Evans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am working on vm86 bios call crash bug for CURRENT and have already a working patch on my machine, I have tested the patch under heavy loaded, seems be very stable. in the patch, I replace current thread pcb pointer to a temporary pcb, the pcb of course is not created by pmap, I am not very certain whether it is safe, any help will be appreciated. David Xu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 19:59: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.alphaque.com (ns2.alphaque.com [202.185.254.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE7E837B403 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 19:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 45121 invoked by uid 0); 11 May 2002 02:59:00 -0000 Received: from ns2.alphaque.com (HELO prophet.alphaque.com) (202.185.254.11) by ns2.alphaque.com with SMTP; 11 May 2002 02:59:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (lx7c863sakxjsbts@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by prophet.alphaque.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4B2ndf04343; Sat, 11 May 2002 10:49:39 +0800 (MYT) (envelope-from dinesh@alphaque.com) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:49:39 +0800 (MYT) From: Dinesh Nair To: Doug White Cc: Josef Grosch , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What hardware do you use ? In-Reply-To: <20020510112835.B45651-100000@resnet.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 May 2002, Doug White wrote: > usually have onboard everything, including dual fxp's nowadays. But they > have the ServerWorks curse. > . Tyan makes some interesting stuff, but as with all ServerWorks based > stuff, stay far, far away from the base ATA33 controller. Even the cheap what serverworks curse ? i may not have been aware of an issue here. could someone please let me know about this ? Regards, /\_/\ "All dogs go to heaven." dinesh@alphaque.com (0 0) http://www.alphaque.com/ +==========================----oOO--(_)--OOo----==========================+ | for a in past present future; do | | for b in clients employers associates relatives neighbours pets; do | | echo "The opinions here in no way reflect the opinions of my $a $b." | | done; done | +=========================================================================+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 10 22:18:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ruminary.org (chiku.ruminary.org [216.218.185.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE1937B403 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 22:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ruminary.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1048322E19; Fri, 10 May 2002 22:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 22:18:15 -0700 From: clark shishido To: Doug White Cc: Josef Grosch , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What hardware do you use ? Message-ID: <20020510221815.A64621@ruminary.org> References: <20020510153118.GA23467@mooseriver.com> <20020510112835.B45651-100000@resnet.uoregon.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020510112835.B45651-100000@resnet.uoregon.edu>; from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu on Fri, May 10, 2002 at 11:48:12AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 10, 2002 at 11:48:12AM -0700, Doug White wrote: > > 1) At eGroups/Y!Groups we used Intel L440GX+ motherboards. These are now > (sadly) discontinued, but supported slotted P2 and P3 CPUs. Very solid if > you used approved memory. I despise the L440GX+ mobos I have to work with at work (AvantGo). I've run into many SCSI errors with the L440GX+ unless you have BIOS revision 14.x or higher. They're a pain in the a** to upgrade the BIOS, and one of the SCSI buses is dumbed down to SE. The only redeeming feature of the L440GX+ is that they have the BIOS out serial console, but they haven't earn my trust. I used to have a two cabinets full of Tyan 1837's which were rock solid; I never had to go to the colo armed with a boot CD and a BIOS on a floppy just to stabilize a machine. That's my opinion for BX/GX based mobo's. I'm still undecided on the newer AthlonMP and Intel SBC2 boards, but of course I don't form judgemental opinions until I've admin'ed them for at least a year. --clark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 0:47:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from HAL9000.wox.org (12-232-222-90.client.attbi.com [12.232.222.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A8437B40B for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 00:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.wox.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4B7mEI43450; Sat, 11 May 2002 00:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:48:14 -0700 From: David Schultz To: "Brandon D. Valentine" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Difference between RELENG_* and RELENG_*_BP Message-ID: <20020511004814.A43416@HAL9000.wox.org> Mail-Followup-To: "Brandon D. Valentine" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020504001121.GA3310@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20020503233143.S16006-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020503233143.S16006-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net>; from bandix@geekpunk.net on Sat, May 04, 2002 at 12:11:29AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Brandon D. Valentine : > I know we've got gnats, but gnats doesn't really provide any of the > Request for Enhancement/voting features that Bugzilla does. FreeBSD > seems to have grown to a point where maybe some of Bugzilla's workflow > benefits could be realized. The ability for developers and users to > vote for or against a specific feature certainly wouldn't hurt. I don't know about that; the current system seems to work pretty well. Best of all, things actually get done without there being religious wars about the colors of various bikesheds. When an issue comes up that people *really* care about, it finds its way to the lists anyway. If people had to vote about every little change, I imagine there'd be chaos. Voting isn't the right way to settle a disagreement anyway. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 0:56:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E9837B404 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 00:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0211.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.211] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176Rjm-0006ge-00; Sat, 11 May 2002 00:56:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDCCE83.66AEF4BB@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 00:55:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow wrote: [ ... ] You *did* ask for comments... > > There should be a list, so that in a brown-out or whatever, you > > don't end up toggling back to the previous version accidently. > > This is not something that is meant for you to massage which root > partition you are going to boot up off of. I don't understand what it does, then. The original Whistle code was intended to attempt to boot 3 times from one partition, and then 3 times from another. If a boot was successful, then in the last rc file before the getty's were started, it reset the list to 3 times the current root and 3 times the alternate root. That way, on each success, the counter was reset, so in general, a given root was sticky. When the failure occurred, then the alternate root was the one whose rc files ran, and it became the sticky one. Worst case, you could power cycle a box three times quickly to force a switch back to an older version. The general failure case is not an indefinite hang, but a reset before the rc file runs. This is particularly true when you have a hardware watchdog, where the first thing that happens is the watchdog is set. Note that images are tested before they are shipped, so the worst case failure is "out of memory" or some other installation failure related problem, and not a kernel problem, anyway. I've personally had to solve this same problem several times now. > > You should only ever rewrite the contents of a single file, and > > it shouldn't be an important file. > > Yes, that's exactly what my patch does. I don't understand the "YES"/"NO" thing, then. There is one byte difference in the file length, which I don't think can be properly accounted, if you do the "YES"/"NO" thing. > > The existance/non-existance of the single file should be enough > > to trigger/suppress the nextboot behaviour. > > I can't unlink files in the loader, so the presence of such a file > wouldn't help. The file is the nextboot.conf file. And unlinking it is not something which you want to do, actually. I think we are misunderstanding each other's intent here. > > Don't assume that the nextboot file will be on the same disk and/or > > partition as the boot and other config file code. > > Well, I'm assuming it's on the root partition. It would be kinda silly for > it to anywhere else. Not really. Consider that if I switch root partitions, then, by definition, I switch nextboot files. Basically, the InterJet was laid out: boot code (including nextboot list) / #1 <- version X of the system (read only) / #2 <- version Y of the system (read only) swap /var <- log files and /tmp /data <- user data (config, user files, etc.) The fstab's on #1 and #2 were opposite, so that you could mount and overwrite the contents with a new release of the software. An upgrade was: mount opposite "root" unpack new system image onto opposite root set up opposite root fstab sync unmount nextboot "opposite opposite opposite this this this" reboot Each revision had data management upgrade/downgrade scripts; these were written to /data, so that opposite versions could downgrade. > > Together, these things will allow the new code to solve the same > > problem that the old code solved on the InterJet. > > I've never heard nor seen the old code. I don't know what it did, and I > don't particularly care. I did this because I thought the way Wes Peters > did his implementation was rather hackish (not saying mine is any better > =) and suboptimal if the machine doesn't make it to multi-user. Please > refer to the commit logs from earlier this month if you don't know of the > commit I'm referring to. I do. He committed some, but not all, of the code that Jon Mini and James wrote (Jon says some of it was based on code I wrote). The design I did at ClickArray was based on the Whistle design from when I worked at Whistle with Julian and Archie. The ClickArray code, if it was intended to solve the problem that the code it was supposedly derived from was intended to solve is for solving the remote upgrade problem, with no local removable media that can be used to recover from a catastrophic failure (the only recovery from such a failure is a fallback to a working previous revision, per the InterJet). The code you are talking about seems limited to replacing only the kernel. Frankly, that's recoverable via the serial console, if you put the "-p" in the right file in /. This isn't really sufficient for any embedded system that needs to get at netstat, ps, or other data which involves examination of kernel structures, which may change between kernel versions. You pretty much have to have two system images to solve that problem, or you'll find youself incredibly screwed, when the web UI, the CLI, SNMP, and the front panel LCD all start reporting random bogus data. 8-(. I'm not trying to dump on your code; I'm just saying that it's not solving the problem that the original code was added to be able to solve, and that the original nextboot itself was intended to resolve. You asked for comments ...those are mine. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 1: 2:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1358937B406 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 01:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0211.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.211] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176RpH-0001P1-00; Sat, 11 May 2002 01:01:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDCCFD8.E9D3AD23@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:01:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schultz Cc: "Brandon D. Valentine" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Difference between RELENG_* and RELENG_*_BP References: <20020504001121.GA3310@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20020503233143.S16006-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> <20020511004814.A43416@HAL9000.wox.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Schultz wrote: > Thus spake Brandon D. Valentine : > > I know we've got gnats, but gnats doesn't really provide any of the > > Request for Enhancement/voting features that Bugzilla does. FreeBSD > > seems to have grown to a point where maybe some of Bugzilla's workflow > > benefits could be realized. The ability for developers and users to > > vote for or against a specific feature certainly wouldn't hurt. > > I don't know about that; the current system seems to work pretty well. > Best of all, things actually get done without there being religious > wars about the colors of various bikesheds. When an issue comes up > that people *really* care about, it finds its way to the lists anyway. > If people had to vote about every little change, I imagine there'd be > chaos. Voting isn't the right way to settle a disagreement anyway. Doesn't bugzilla still have that remote exploit problem that was reported on Bugtraq? Also, I think voting is generally done by "write the code". You really can't demand volunteers work on what you want them to work on. If someone asks for comments, feel free to comment, and if they start a public discussion, feel free to discuss, but I think "voting on bug fixes" has the ring of imposing management on people who you are not paying enough to put up with it. It worked for Mozilla because Netscape paid people to put up with doing work they didn't want to do and getting input from people who were unwilling to write the code themselves. Pure volunteer efforts are different. To persuade, you can't just vote, you actually have to be persuasive. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 1:23: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from HAL9000.wox.org (12-232-222-90.client.attbi.com [12.232.222.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A23A37B400 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 01:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.wox.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4B8NXA43635; Sat, 11 May 2002 01:23:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 01:23:33 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Brandon D. Valentine" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Difference between RELENG_* and RELENG_*_BP Message-ID: <20020511012333.A43578@HAL9000.wox.org> Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , "Brandon D. Valentine" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020504001121.GA3310@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20020503233143.S16006-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> <20020511004814.A43416@HAL9000.wox.org> <3CDCCFD8.E9D3AD23@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3CDCCFD8.E9D3AD23@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Sat, May 11, 2002 at 01:01:28AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Terry Lambert : ... > Doesn't bugzilla still have that remote exploit problem that > was reported on Bugtraq? > > Also, I think voting is generally done by "write the code". > You really can't demand volunteers work on what you want them > to work on. I think you're on to something here. Just imagine: A: ``I'll give you $200 to add $foo to the base system.'' B: ``No, *I* bid $300 to get someone to work on $bar.'' ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 5:28: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.sh163.net (mail5.sh163.net [202.96.194.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C574937B406 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (Rockmail 23801 invoked from network); 11 May 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO RsProxy) ([61.165.90.138]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sh163.net (Rockmail) with SMTP for ; 11 May 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Reply-To: zmzl@sh163.net From: zmzl@sh163.net To: 𾴵Ŀͻ@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ϻʻˮչ-Ļ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312_CHARSET" Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:31:08 +0800 Message-Id: <20020511122719.C574937B406@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 2002йϺʸˮˮչἰ2002йϺʻ 豸չ"2002515-17Ϻó̳¡ؾٰ졣 չձ¹ ôй̨ȹ400ҳ̲չչ10000ƽ ףͬʱҵȨʿ֪ҵٰרⱨ ᡣ ӭصλǰι չĿ¼ DongSuh Environment Technology Co, Ltd ƺ Hwang Hae Electric еҵ˻ Korea Association Of Machinery Industry һ޹˾ CHEIL ENTECCO, LTD SHENYANG OFFICE ¹¼ A FRIEDRFLENDERGMBH ձʽ SATSUKI CO, LTD SHANGHAI OFFICE ձʽҰ KASHINO & CO, LTD SHANGHAI REPRESENTATIVE OFFICE ŵ̫޹˾ Noveon Chemicals Asia Pacific Ltd ˹ٻ豸޹˾ Beijing Hi-Standard Environmental Equipment Co, Ltd ɣ»ҵ Beijing SOUND Environmental Industry Group Corporation ̨^hO乤IͬI TAIWAN ENVIRONMENTAL MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION 㼼g̣ɣ˾ DIAMOND TECHNICAL & TRADING CORP ϺCsO޹˾ SHANGHAILIANG CHI COOLING EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ƽɣ˾ GASTECH CO, LTD Iɣ˾ FENG GUH ENTERPRISE CO, LTD MƼɣ˾ YEAMEEI ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ͬI޹˾ SAME CO,LTD ѺͻϹɷ޹˾ YUHO REFRACTORIES CO, LTD Ҋ늙CIɣ˾ HCP PUMP MANUFACTURER CO, LTD ݭhƼɣ˾ KJ ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNDOGY CO, LTD 죨ɣ˾ TRUSTEWLL INDUSTRIAL LTD ݸгhO侭Ӫ RYOSEI NACGUBE UBDYSTRAK EBTERORUSE CO, LTD ]I޹˾ BAG FILTER ENTERPRISE CO, LTD ȫʢԴƼɷ޹˾ EverGlory Resource Technology CO, LTD (ERT) ̨ҵչЭᣨBCSD-Taiwan Ƽ̹ɷ޹˾ ټ˾ ŷ˹Ժ ŷй֯ҵо China Textile Institute ŷ＼ Development Center for Biotechnology ŷ̨ɫ Taiwan Green Productivity Foundation Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Zean Industrial Co, Ltd ¹ãй/ۣ޹˾ Burkert Contromatic (China/HK) Ltd ϺԴе޹˾ Shanghai Chuan Yuan Mechanical Engineering Co,Ltd ǴƷ޹˾ CHINAUST PLASTICS CORPLTD Ԫʿʹɷ޹˾ HUN-YUAN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOP CONSULTING CO, LTD ޹˾ Wonder Electric Co, Ltd Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Amstar Enterprises Co, Ltd ϺǻƼչ޹˾ Shanghai KATHY Environmental Protection Technology Development Co, Ltd ϺĹķ޹˾ Shanghai Huagu Blower Manufactory 񻷾豸޹˾ Zhaomin Environmental Engineering Equipment Co ʡе Jiangsu Province Zhuze Machinery Factory ̩޹˾ Beijing Ample Technology Instrument Co, Ltd ¿ؼ Daifu MO Group Ltd ϺŻƷ޹˾ SHANGHAI FAYA ENVIRONMENTAL PRODUCTS CO, LTD Ƽ޹˾ JC EnvorTech Engineering Co, Ltd ɹűعҵ޹˾ INNER MONGOLIA NORTH HEAVY INDUSTRIES GROUP CO, LTD ϾʥԴˮ޹˾ NANJING SHENG YUAN WATER TREATMENT TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ݹҵ԰˹Ͳܽͷ޹˾ Suzhou Industrial Park Straub Pipe-Joint Co, Ltd еºϺʿȱ޹˾ KSB SHANGHAI PUMP CO, LTD նеϺ޹˾ NITTO P & M ENGINEERING (SHANGHAI)CO, LTD ӱҵеɷ޹˾ ͷι˾ ˮҵչ޹˾ Shenzhen ZhongRun Water Industry Technology Development Co ,Ltd Ԫˮҵй޹˾ DUO YUAN CLEAN WATER TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRIES CHINA COLTD ˾HANGHAI YOSI I ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ENQUIPMENT CO,LTD Ϻȶ޹˾ Shanghai Chaiodin Valve Trading Co, Ltd Ϻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI WIDELEE ENVIRONTEC CO, LTD ϺҰ޹˾ Shanghai Ye Ma EPE Co, Ltd Ϻ豸޹˾ Everpure Shanghai Water Treatment Co, Ltd е޹˾ Hangzhou Ningda Machinery Co, Ltd ٱҵ޹˾ Jiangmen Ruirong Pump Industry , Ltd Guangdong ʢ޹˾ Fuyang Shengda Mechanical And Electrical Manufacturing Co, Ltd ɽѧɽҵܹ˾ SHANDONG HEART GENERAL COMPANY Ϻ׿Զϵͳ̷޹˾ Shang ACS Co, Ltd ޹˾Ϻ REHAU LIMITED, SHANGHAI REPOFFICE ϺͶֹܳ Shanghai Laodong Steel Pipe Works ձʣɶܻе޹˾ CHENGDU YAMATO HEAT ENERGY MACHINERY CO, LTD Ͼ̶ܻװι˾ Nanjing Bidun Environmental Protection Equipment Co, Ltd Ϻҵ޹˾ SHANGHAI YOULI PIPES CO, LTD ݰˮ豸޹˾ Huzhou Bangde Water Treatment Equipment Co, Ltd ˹ݣ޹˾ Frings Xuzhou Bio-and Chemical Technology Co, Ltd 㶫ʡݸкָԪе Fu Yuan Machinery Plant Hou-jie Town, Dong Guan Guang Dong-China ²ϼ޹˾ Beijing Liquid Filter New Material Technique Co, Ltd ߺл̩ʵҵ޹˾ Wuhu Huatai Industry Co, Ltd żҸк˻豸޹˾ Hongxing Environmental Protection Equipment Co, Ltd ּš⽭޹˾ Kelin Group Wujiang Baodai Dedusting Co, Ltd Զܽҵ޹˾ Far-Eastern (Ningbo) Plastics & Metals Industrial Co, Ltd 븴ϲϹ˾ XI'AN CHAOMA COMPOSITE MATERIALS CO, LTD 辻ˮƼɽ޹˾ HSIN CHI WATER PURIFIED TECHNOLOGY (KUN SHAN) CO, LTD ŷ½ǣй޹˾ EURO TECH (CHINA) LTD ̩޹˾ Tianjin Huatai Stainless Steel Containers Co,Ltd ޻Ƽ˾ Beijing Huanyu Luzhou Environmental Protect Science Technology Co, Ltd а»ݣ߿Ƽ޹˾ Zhong-ao Environment Protection (Su Zhou) High-tech Co, Ltd ϿƼչ޹˾ Ƶɭ¼ BEIJING KEDISN NEW TECH DEVCENTER 򻷱޹˾ SHENYANG DAYIN ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING CO, LTD ´½Ƽ޹˾ Fujian Newland Entech Co, Ltd ϺˮǻƼ޹˾ SMET CO, LTD ʯׯƴDZ˾ SHIJIAZHUANG KODA CO, LTD Ϻоˮѧ Ϻó޹˾ SHANGHAI JUNYU TRADING CO, LTD Ϻˮ޹˾ ݴ豸޹˾ Hangzhou Chunjiang Environment Protect Co,Ltd Ϻܽ޹˾ Shanghai Yaxin Plastic Containers Co, Ltd ϺĻео Shanghai Centrifuge Institute (SCI) 춫ŷ Ϻ̿޹˾ ϺǼ޹˾ ϺǸ豸 Shanghai Huanxing Viberation Absorber Co, Ltd ־Ʒݣ޹˾ CHAMPION ENGINEERING FUZHOU CORPORATION Ϻʢ޹˾ Shanghai Yeh-Sheng Machinery Co, Ltd ҵ GALI CIER/SACRIA GROUP Ϻó޹˾ SHANGHAI LINGYA TRADING CO, LTD ϺˮƼ޹˾ Shanghai Chanitex Water-dupose Technology Co, Ltd ܹóףϺ޹˾ ON GEAR TRADING (SHANGHAI)CO, LTD ÷---Ϻ޹˾ Mettler-Toledo Instruments (Shanghai) Co,Ltd Ż豸޹˾ CHANGZHOU SANXIN ENVIRONMENTAL SANTARY AND PROTECTION EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ƽ޹˾ Beijing Rich Orient Envi Tech Co, Ltd Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Hanhai Industry Co, Ltd ݰ˼ؾ豸޹˾ Changzhou EST Purification Equipment Co, Ltd ŷĤ޹˾ Dalian Eurofilm Industrial Ltd ൺڿҺ޹˾ ϺDZ޹˾ Shanghai Haiheng Mechanical & Electronic Co, Ltd Ӣά˼ϵͳˮй´ Invensys Metering Systems Water Meter China (Ningbo) Office ܼ3531 㽭ư޹˾ Zhejiang Touw Environment Engineering Co,Ltd ϺƼ޹˾ Shanghai Hydantoin Chemical Co, Ltd ϺӢջ޹˾ Shanghai EnPro Environmental Technology Co, Ltd ˳жҵ޹˾ Dongfang Lusuguan Co, Ltd ݽԴ޹˾ Hangzhou Jinjiang Protect Energy Co, Ltd ̨ҵ޹˾ TAIZHOU ZHONGTIAN PLASTICCO, LTD Ԫͨе޹˾ Hangzhou Yuantong Machinery Co, Ltd ȼ޹˾ Jialing( Dalian) Heat Transfer Technology Co, Ltd ϵ޹˾ QiDi Electric Group Co, Ltd ʡ֥ﾻ Ҧн̩DZ޹˾ ҦҵԶDZ ޹˾ Jiangsu Zhengchang Group Co, Ltd Ϻַ޹˾ Shanghai Carrier Special Valve Co, Ltd ݾ޹˾ Hangzhou Jingda Electronic Co, Ltd ֤˹ɷ޹˾ ⻷޹˾ CHEN HSINN ENTERPRISE COMPANY LIMITED Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai Nikuni Pumps Co, L td ˹ͲϷչ޹˾ FUSITE NEW TYPE MATERIAL DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ʤ豸޹˾ Pusheng Protect Environments Equipment Co, Ltd Ȼ豸ҵ޹˾豸 Hubei Great Nature Environmental Protection Equipment Industry Co, Ltd ̩ϾƼ޹˾ KEMFLO (NANJING) ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNICAL CO, LTD ܽ޹˾ Ronglin Plastic Industrial (Fu Jian) Co, Ltd ˮ˼Դ-¹߿Ƽƹ˾ NBCC-WR ºһó޹˾ TIAN JIN SHIN HAN IL INTERNATIONAL TRADE CO, LTD ж޹˾ Shenzhen Dongjiang Environmental Protection Technology Co, Ltd Ϻ̹豸޹˾ Encore Engineering Equipment Company Ltd Ϻ廷޹˾ SHANGHAI GVE ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY CO , LTD Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai Hualida Industrial Co,Ltd лظˮ޹˾ Shenzhen Farada Valve Technology Co, Ltd ϺѲԿؼ޹˾ Shanghai Fiporter Auto-control Tech Co, Ltd н㹤ҵԿϵͳ޹˾ Shenzhen Champion Industrial Automation Ltd Ϻ»޹˾ shanghai JTU Xinde Environment Protect Co, Ltd 㽭˫źִ豸 ϾDZʵҵ޹˾ Ϻͽ޹˾ Shanghai Aikang New-style Building Material Co, Ltd żҸз峬е޹˾ й׿޹˾ EMEC CHINA CO, LTD ŵƼ޹˾ Precision Control Technology Co, Ltd ̨壨ǣʵҵɷ޹˾ ᣨǣŹҵ޹˾ Ϻưװϳ SHANGHAI WANKE CONTAINER FACTORY Ȫа޹˾ Oxo Environmental Engineering Co, Ltd ̩˻Ƽ˾ LANTEC ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD θﻷƼڣ޹˾ JIA FU BIO ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION TECHNOLOGY (SHEN ZHEN) CO, LTD º͹˲ϳ Ϻ߼ SHANGHAI 3H COMPUTER ʡ¿ϳ йҽҩϺѧԼ˾ China National Medicines Group Shanghai Chemical Reagent Company ݣ棩Ĥҵ޹˾ Hangzhou (Torch) Xidoumen Membrane Industries Co, Ltd ʡԣˮ豸޹˾ LIYANG YUHUA TREATMENT EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ɽ»̿޹˾ TANGSHAN JIANXIN ACTIVATED CARBON CO, LTD Ϻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI HUJING ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ϻѧйͶ޹˾ Dow Chemical (China) Investment Company Limited 㽭ǷƼ޹˾ 㽭γ޹˾ Ϻϴˮ޹˾ SHANGHAI SUNDR STAINLESS STEEL WATER CONTAINER CO, LTD Ϻ޹˾ ̨˻޹˾ TAIXING ENVIRONMENTEC CO, LTD Ϻ⻪޹˾ SHANGHAI GUANGHUA ALTOMETER INSTRUMENTS CO, LTD ̻е޹˾㽭 ֱ޹˾ YANGJIANG NEW YUEHUA STAWLESS STEEL PUMP COLTD Ϻ綯߷չ޹˾ Shanghai Runyang Electric Tool Development Co, Ltd ˳¸۷޹˾ SUNDE GANGFENG ELECTRIC CO, LTD ܽҵ޹˾ Advance Plastics Industrial Co, Ltd 豸޹˾ HANG ZHOU RONGXIN ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ޹˾ ʢ޹˾ Դдӱ̿ ϺΰؿƼеչ޹˾ ޹˾ Ϻ·Żе豸޹˾ еºΰ̿ Ӹˮװ ɽˮů޹˾ ܹɷ޹˾ CANGZHOU MINGZHU PLASTIC CO, LTD ޹˾ нϸˮ豸 Ϻط޹˾ݷܳ SHANGHAI FUDI VALVE CO, LTD ϺԶ豸޹˾ ԶṤе޹˾ 廪ͬɷ޹˾ TSING HUA TONG FANG CO, LTD Ϻ˫޹˾ SHANGHAI D & H INSTRUMENTS ݿʢ豸޹˾ KESHENG MECHANICAL & ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Լ޹˾ ANHENG TEST-TECH CO, LTD Ϻ쳤ԫ͹ܵ޹˾ Shanghai Aerospace Changyuan New Type Pipeline Co, Ltd Ϻ쾧Դ޹˾ Shanghai Environmental Project Tech Co, Ltd 촿ˮ豸 ǿ޹˾ Changzhou Pipelife Reinforced Plastic Co, Ltd жˮ豸޹˾ DONGDA WATER-PROCESSING EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ϺŵܽƷ޹˾ Shanghai Anrro Plastic Products Co, Ltd Ϻó޹˾ Good Morning Entr Co, Ltd( Shanghai ) Ϻδҵ޹˾ Shanghai Weilai Enterprise Co, Ltd ¹ǿƳɻ豸޹˾ WENZHOU LUCHENG KECHENG ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECT EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ˾ SHANGHAI CHAIODIN VALVE TRADING COLTD ˼ʵҵ޹˾ SHENZHEN SIMEIDA INDUSTRY CO,LTD Ϻݷʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Xintian Industrial Co, Ltd Ϻ̩˹ҵ޹˾ SHANGHAI PL TECHNOLOGIES CO, LTD 㽭޼Źɷ޹˾ ZHEJIANG KINGLAND GROUP CO, LTD Ϻʦͨ豸޹˾ Shanghai Bester Environmental Equipment Co, Ltd ۶ٽϹ޹˾Ϻ´ HONGKONG TUNG WING BUILDING MATERIALS SHANGHAI CO, LTD Ϻ껯޹˾ HENGYI CHEMICAL CO, LTD ɽϼŹɷ޹˾ FOSHAN PLASTICS GROUP CO, LTD ʯׯмܻ豸޹˾ SHIJIAZHUANG YINENG ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ŵ¿Ƽչ޹˾ MICRONET TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ϺͻƼ޹˾ 㽭ŷ޹˾ Ϻܻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI CANNATURE ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ۴ˮҵ ־ ӣй޹˾ ܺҵƼչ޹˾ BEIJING ZHONGNENGHENGYE TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ͨʵҵ޹˾ ϺŵܽƷ޹˾ ྻ޹˾ ɽǻƼ޹˾ ˫е豸޹˾ гǹҵ޹˾ Guangzhou Macrobiotic Star Pipes Co, Ltd ɽʳƷ豸쳧 NINGBO YONGGUANG TOOD MACHINERY CO, LTD ɽҵմоԺ Ͳմɹװ˾ еҵϢоԺ China Machinery Industry Information Institute кŶϳ Ϻ󷽿յ޹˾ SHANGHAI DAFANG AIR CONDITIONING CO, LTD Ϻɭ̩ͨŲҵ޹˾ 㽭ʡ֯ﰢ̩ܽƷ 弯޹˾ TWD CORPORATION LIMITED ---Ħ޹˾ BELLISS & MORCOM LTD ʢҵ޹˾ WUXI FUSHENG VALVE INDUSTRIAL CO, LTD 㽭²ʯ豸޹˾ Zhejiang Xinchang Deli Petrochemical Equipment Co, Ltd Ϻѹ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI CHAOLU COMPRSSOR PURIFICATION EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ϻϴ豸޹˾ Shanghai LISHI Cleaning Equipment Co, Ltd ϺַŹܼ޹˾ Shanghai Flow Valve & Fitting Co, Ltd Զ޹˾ MULTI-CONTROL I/E LTD Ϻʵҵ޹˾ KO PAN INDUSTRIAL CO, LTD ɽ̩еҵ޹˾ пӼо BEIJING INSTITUTE OF KEZHEN ELECTRONIC TECHNOLOGY Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai East Pump Manufacturing Co, Ltd ݼ޹˾ HANGZHOU ALKALI PUMP CO, LTD лʿ޹˾ һܷ Ҧŵŷ޹˾ Yuyao Sanlixin Solenoid Valve Co, Ltd Ϻѹ޹˾ SHANGHAI BOLAITE COMPRESSOR CO, LTD ɽ»λеҵ޹˾ SHANDONG ZHANGHUANG MACHINERY INDUSTRY CO, LTD ϺԶϵͳ޹˾ Keiyao(Shanghai) Fluid AutoControl Systems Co, LTD ͨ＼˾ Beijing Polytota Co, Ltd ϺԶó޹˾ Shanghai Grand International Trading Co,Ltd ҦDZij Ϻ޹˾ Burgmann shanghai Ltd ɽķ豸޹˾ Anshan Elom Controls Ltd ѹ־ ʯׯҵó Shijinazhuang industrial pump factory Ϻеܷ޹˾ Shanghai Minlian Mechanical Seal Co, Ltd ܷ Ningbo Fenghua Minlian Seal Parts Plant Դҵ޹˾ Shenyang Qiyuan Industrial Pump Manufacturing C0,Ltd ʨBоѹʵҵ޹˾ LIUZHOU YIFENG SCROLL COMPRESSOR CORPORATION ݵڶѹܳҵ пշ豸޹˾ RICH AIR SEPARATION CO, LTD ϺͰ޹˾ NICO VALVES CORP Ϻº޹˾ ͨ缼޹˾ ŷ۾ó޹˾ Hiltech International Co, Ltd Ϻ˹ѹ޹˾ Shanghai Screw Compressor Co, Ltd Ϻͨñû豸޹˾һˮó Shanghai First Pump Works ˮʨͨɻе޹˾ CNFC HAISHI NANTONG TIANCHENG MACHINERY CO, LTD и߲Ƽ޹˾ GUANGZHOU COPORWEY TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ÷ Pump & Valve Trading Net Ϻɱҵ޹˾ Shanghai Liancheng Pump-manufacture Co, Ltd ض豸޹˾ BEIJING GREATALL DYNAMIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ϻ˳ŷ Shanghai Chang Shun Valve Factory Ϻó޹˾ Shanghai Yanxin Trading Co, Ltd Ϻле޹˾ Shanghai Deuchi (Eco Cou) Machinaery Co, Ltd Ͳˮձó޹˾ ZIBO WATERRING VACUUM PUMP FACTORY CO, LTD мԴ豸޹˾ ӯҵɷ޹˾ ASTAM VALVE ENTERPRISE CO, LTD ɽʿеƷ޹˾ KUNSHAN ASTAM MACHINERY WARE CO, LTD е޹˾ Jinggang Kewei Machinery Manufacture Co, Ltd µ¹ҵι˾ Jiangxi Xinde Industrial Pump Co, Ltd DZ޹˾ ɽ޹˾ Kingdom Precision Castings Co, Ltd Ϻи׹ҵ޹˾ Ͼ̩߷ҵ޹˾ Taitgo Valve MFG Co, Ltd źԴҵ޹˾ ̨ие޹˾Ϻ´ TAIPEI LUCK MACHINERY CO, LTD Ϻ˻е޹˾ Schenck Shanghai Machinery CorpLtd 㶫輯 ˹оܻе޹˾ Scrollex (Guangzhou ) Compress Co, Ltd ɽÿƼɷ޹˾ Shandong Boshan Pump Science & Technology Co, Ltd з޹˾ ҦDZ޹˾ Ϻ SHANGHAI SHENLIAN TESTING MACHINERIES WORKS ȫͨŹܼ޹˾ SHENYANG QUANTONG VALVES PIPE-FITTINGS MANUFACTURE CO, LTD Ϻ¡ Shanghai Dalong Machinery Works Ϻ㿭е޹˾ Ϸֱó Ϻǻе豸޹˾ SHANGHAI PUMP-KIN MACHINERY CO, LTD 㽭Ừų Zhejiang Light Machinery Valve Plant Fenghua ϺǿDZ SHANGHAI XINGKONG METERS FACTORY ϺǿԶDZ޹˾ SHANGHAI XINGKONG AUTOMATION INSTRUMENTATION CO, LTD ϺԶϵͳ޹˾ Shanghai RoPo Automation Control System Co, Ltd Ҧŷ Yuyao Yongling Solenoid Valve Factory Ϻӻе޹˾ SHANGHAI HANBELL PRECISE MACHINERY COLTD ٸó׳޹˾ Ringier Trade Publishing Ltd Ϻַ޹˾ SHAGHAI HAIVEI SPECIAL VALVE MANUFACTURING CO, LTD Ϻ̩ҵ豸˾ Shanghai Tai Yang Industrial Constrols Equipment Co, Ltd ҫǹʹɷ޹˾ Star-Dynamic International, Lnc Shanghai Office 㽭ÿƼʵҵ޹˾ Zhejiang Yongjiu Scientific & Technological Industrial Co, Ltd ˳豸Ϻ˾ MARISO (Shanghai) Co, Ltd 깤ҵý Vogel Media Group ˳úȫܳ Fushun Coal Mine Safety Instrument General Factory ӢؿƼ޹˾ Beijing Yingtelai Technology Co,Ltd ذ޹˾ SHENZHEN EXTRA SAFETY ELECTRONICS COLTD ͨ޹˾ 廪չ޹˾ ݵ綯Ͳ޹˾ HUZHOU MOTORIZED DRUM CO, LTD ˻нij 㽭豸޹˾ Zhejiang Minan Fire Fighting Equipment Co, Ltd ʡ˻ е޹˾ Ningbo Huayuan Fire-fighting Equipment Manufacturing Co, Ltd 㶫ղƼɷ޹˾ 豸޹˾ Ningbo Jianli Fire Equipment Co, Ltd ·Ƽɷ޹˾ Dalian Luminglight Science End Tehnology Co, Ltd ̫䯺ӷŴ Ϻײ˾ Traypoint (Shanghai) Ltd عó޹˾ ɽ³ɷ޹˾ SHANDONG LUYANG SHARE CO, LTD ϺƼչ޹˾ SHANGHAI GUODA TECH DEVE LOPMENT CO, LTD Ϻη޹˾ SHANGHAI JINGJAI VALVE MANUFACTAYNG COLTD Ϻͽ޹˾ SHANGHAI BOMDER MODERN BVILDING MATERIALS CO, LTD ֶ豸˾ BEIJING HOVER TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ɽʡаij Laiwu White-elephant Fire-fighting Equipment Factory Ϻ־ ÷ йѹϢ Ϻѯչ޹˾ Ϻó޹˾ Shanghai Dongxi Trade Co, Ltd Ϻɭ޹˾ еȺӻ̿޹˾ ޹˾ Http:www.zhongmao.com.cn E-mail:zmzl@sh163.net ϵ绰021-54641713 54641743 棺021-64942305 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 5:28: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.sh163.net (mail5.sh163.net [202.96.194.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 502FC37B403 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (Rockmail 23801 invoked from network); 11 May 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO RsProxy) ([61.165.90.138]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sh163.net (Rockmail) with SMTP for ; 11 May 2002 12:26:17 -0000 Reply-To: zmzl@sh163.net From: zmzl@sh163.net To: 𾴵Ŀͻ@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ϻʻˮչ-Ļ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312_CHARSET" Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:31:08 +0800 Message-Id: <20020511122719.502FC37B403@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 2002йϺʸˮˮչἰ2002йϺʻ 豸չ"2002515-17Ϻó̳¡ؾٰ졣 չձ¹ ôй̨ȹ400ҳ̲չչ10000ƽ ףͬʱҵȨʿ֪ҵٰרⱨ ᡣ ӭصλǰι չĿ¼ DongSuh Environment Technology Co, Ltd ƺ Hwang Hae Electric еҵ˻ Korea Association Of Machinery Industry һ޹˾ CHEIL ENTECCO, LTD SHENYANG OFFICE ¹¼ A FRIEDRFLENDERGMBH ձʽ SATSUKI CO, LTD SHANGHAI OFFICE ձʽҰ KASHINO & CO, LTD SHANGHAI REPRESENTATIVE OFFICE ŵ̫޹˾ Noveon Chemicals Asia Pacific Ltd ˹ٻ豸޹˾ Beijing Hi-Standard Environmental Equipment Co, Ltd ɣ»ҵ Beijing SOUND Environmental Industry Group Corporation ̨^hO乤IͬI TAIWAN ENVIRONMENTAL MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION 㼼g̣ɣ˾ DIAMOND TECHNICAL & TRADING CORP ϺCsO޹˾ SHANGHAILIANG CHI COOLING EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ƽɣ˾ GASTECH CO, LTD Iɣ˾ FENG GUH ENTERPRISE CO, LTD MƼɣ˾ YEAMEEI ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ͬI޹˾ SAME CO,LTD ѺͻϹɷ޹˾ YUHO REFRACTORIES CO, LTD Ҋ늙CIɣ˾ HCP PUMP MANUFACTURER CO, LTD ݭhƼɣ˾ KJ ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNDOGY CO, LTD 죨ɣ˾ TRUSTEWLL INDUSTRIAL LTD ݸгhO侭Ӫ RYOSEI NACGUBE UBDYSTRAK EBTERORUSE CO, LTD ]I޹˾ BAG FILTER ENTERPRISE CO, LTD ȫʢԴƼɷ޹˾ EverGlory Resource Technology CO, LTD (ERT) ̨ҵչЭᣨBCSD-Taiwan Ƽ̹ɷ޹˾ ټ˾ ŷ˹Ժ ŷй֯ҵо China Textile Institute ŷ＼ Development Center for Biotechnology ŷ̨ɫ Taiwan Green Productivity Foundation Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Zean Industrial Co, Ltd ¹ãй/ۣ޹˾ Burkert Contromatic (China/HK) Ltd ϺԴе޹˾ Shanghai Chuan Yuan Mechanical Engineering Co,Ltd ǴƷ޹˾ CHINAUST PLASTICS CORPLTD Ԫʿʹɷ޹˾ HUN-YUAN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOP CONSULTING CO, LTD ޹˾ Wonder Electric Co, Ltd Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Amstar Enterprises Co, Ltd ϺǻƼչ޹˾ Shanghai KATHY Environmental Protection Technology Development Co, Ltd ϺĹķ޹˾ Shanghai Huagu Blower Manufactory 񻷾豸޹˾ Zhaomin Environmental Engineering Equipment Co ʡе Jiangsu Province Zhuze Machinery Factory ̩޹˾ Beijing Ample Technology Instrument Co, Ltd ¿ؼ Daifu MO Group Ltd ϺŻƷ޹˾ SHANGHAI FAYA ENVIRONMENTAL PRODUCTS CO, LTD Ƽ޹˾ JC EnvorTech Engineering Co, Ltd ɹűعҵ޹˾ INNER MONGOLIA NORTH HEAVY INDUSTRIES GROUP CO, LTD ϾʥԴˮ޹˾ NANJING SHENG YUAN WATER TREATMENT TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ݹҵ԰˹Ͳܽͷ޹˾ Suzhou Industrial Park Straub Pipe-Joint Co, Ltd еºϺʿȱ޹˾ KSB SHANGHAI PUMP CO, LTD նеϺ޹˾ NITTO P & M ENGINEERING (SHANGHAI)CO, LTD ӱҵеɷ޹˾ ͷι˾ ˮҵչ޹˾ Shenzhen ZhongRun Water Industry Technology Development Co ,Ltd Ԫˮҵй޹˾ DUO YUAN CLEAN WATER TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRIES CHINA COLTD ˾HANGHAI YOSI I ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ENQUIPMENT CO,LTD Ϻȶ޹˾ Shanghai Chaiodin Valve Trading Co, Ltd Ϻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI WIDELEE ENVIRONTEC CO, LTD ϺҰ޹˾ Shanghai Ye Ma EPE Co, Ltd Ϻ豸޹˾ Everpure Shanghai Water Treatment Co, Ltd е޹˾ Hangzhou Ningda Machinery Co, Ltd ٱҵ޹˾ Jiangmen Ruirong Pump Industry , Ltd Guangdong ʢ޹˾ Fuyang Shengda Mechanical And Electrical Manufacturing Co, Ltd ɽѧɽҵܹ˾ SHANDONG HEART GENERAL COMPANY Ϻ׿Զϵͳ̷޹˾ Shang ACS Co, Ltd ޹˾Ϻ REHAU LIMITED, SHANGHAI REPOFFICE ϺͶֹܳ Shanghai Laodong Steel Pipe Works ձʣɶܻе޹˾ CHENGDU YAMATO HEAT ENERGY MACHINERY CO, LTD Ͼ̶ܻװι˾ Nanjing Bidun Environmental Protection Equipment Co, Ltd Ϻҵ޹˾ SHANGHAI YOULI PIPES CO, LTD ݰˮ豸޹˾ Huzhou Bangde Water Treatment Equipment Co, Ltd ˹ݣ޹˾ Frings Xuzhou Bio-and Chemical Technology Co, Ltd 㶫ʡݸкָԪе Fu Yuan Machinery Plant Hou-jie Town, Dong Guan Guang Dong-China ²ϼ޹˾ Beijing Liquid Filter New Material Technique Co, Ltd ߺл̩ʵҵ޹˾ Wuhu Huatai Industry Co, Ltd żҸк˻豸޹˾ Hongxing Environmental Protection Equipment Co, Ltd ּš⽭޹˾ Kelin Group Wujiang Baodai Dedusting Co, Ltd Զܽҵ޹˾ Far-Eastern (Ningbo) Plastics & Metals Industrial Co, Ltd 븴ϲϹ˾ XI'AN CHAOMA COMPOSITE MATERIALS CO, LTD 辻ˮƼɽ޹˾ HSIN CHI WATER PURIFIED TECHNOLOGY (KUN SHAN) CO, LTD ŷ½ǣй޹˾ EURO TECH (CHINA) LTD ̩޹˾ Tianjin Huatai Stainless Steel Containers Co,Ltd ޻Ƽ˾ Beijing Huanyu Luzhou Environmental Protect Science Technology Co, Ltd а»ݣ߿Ƽ޹˾ Zhong-ao Environment Protection (Su Zhou) High-tech Co, Ltd ϿƼչ޹˾ Ƶɭ¼ BEIJING KEDISN NEW TECH DEVCENTER 򻷱޹˾ SHENYANG DAYIN ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING CO, LTD ´½Ƽ޹˾ Fujian Newland Entech Co, Ltd ϺˮǻƼ޹˾ SMET CO, LTD ʯׯƴDZ˾ SHIJIAZHUANG KODA CO, LTD Ϻоˮѧ Ϻó޹˾ SHANGHAI JUNYU TRADING CO, LTD Ϻˮ޹˾ ݴ豸޹˾ Hangzhou Chunjiang Environment Protect Co,Ltd Ϻܽ޹˾ Shanghai Yaxin Plastic Containers Co, Ltd ϺĻео Shanghai Centrifuge Institute (SCI) 춫ŷ Ϻ̿޹˾ ϺǼ޹˾ ϺǸ豸 Shanghai Huanxing Viberation Absorber Co, Ltd ־Ʒݣ޹˾ CHAMPION ENGINEERING FUZHOU CORPORATION Ϻʢ޹˾ Shanghai Yeh-Sheng Machinery Co, Ltd ҵ GALI CIER/SACRIA GROUP Ϻó޹˾ SHANGHAI LINGYA TRADING CO, LTD ϺˮƼ޹˾ Shanghai Chanitex Water-dupose Technology Co, Ltd ܹóףϺ޹˾ ON GEAR TRADING (SHANGHAI)CO, LTD ÷---Ϻ޹˾ Mettler-Toledo Instruments (Shanghai) Co,Ltd Ż豸޹˾ CHANGZHOU SANXIN ENVIRONMENTAL SANTARY AND PROTECTION EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ƽ޹˾ Beijing Rich Orient Envi Tech Co, Ltd Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Hanhai Industry Co, Ltd ݰ˼ؾ豸޹˾ Changzhou EST Purification Equipment Co, Ltd ŷĤ޹˾ Dalian Eurofilm Industrial Ltd ൺڿҺ޹˾ ϺDZ޹˾ Shanghai Haiheng Mechanical & Electronic Co, Ltd Ӣά˼ϵͳˮй´ Invensys Metering Systems Water Meter China (Ningbo) Office ܼ3531 㽭ư޹˾ Zhejiang Touw Environment Engineering Co,Ltd ϺƼ޹˾ Shanghai Hydantoin Chemical Co, Ltd ϺӢջ޹˾ Shanghai EnPro Environmental Technology Co, Ltd ˳жҵ޹˾ Dongfang Lusuguan Co, Ltd ݽԴ޹˾ Hangzhou Jinjiang Protect Energy Co, Ltd ̨ҵ޹˾ TAIZHOU ZHONGTIAN PLASTICCO, LTD Ԫͨе޹˾ Hangzhou Yuantong Machinery Co, Ltd ȼ޹˾ Jialing( Dalian) Heat Transfer Technology Co, Ltd ϵ޹˾ QiDi Electric Group Co, Ltd ʡ֥ﾻ Ҧн̩DZ޹˾ ҦҵԶDZ ޹˾ Jiangsu Zhengchang Group Co, Ltd Ϻַ޹˾ Shanghai Carrier Special Valve Co, Ltd ݾ޹˾ Hangzhou Jingda Electronic Co, Ltd ֤˹ɷ޹˾ ⻷޹˾ CHEN HSINN ENTERPRISE COMPANY LIMITED Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai Nikuni Pumps Co, L td ˹ͲϷչ޹˾ FUSITE NEW TYPE MATERIAL DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ʤ豸޹˾ Pusheng Protect Environments Equipment Co, Ltd Ȼ豸ҵ޹˾豸 Hubei Great Nature Environmental Protection Equipment Industry Co, Ltd ̩ϾƼ޹˾ KEMFLO (NANJING) ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNICAL CO, LTD ܽ޹˾ Ronglin Plastic Industrial (Fu Jian) Co, Ltd ˮ˼Դ-¹߿Ƽƹ˾ NBCC-WR ºһó޹˾ TIAN JIN SHIN HAN IL INTERNATIONAL TRADE CO, LTD ж޹˾ Shenzhen Dongjiang Environmental Protection Technology Co, Ltd Ϻ̹豸޹˾ Encore Engineering Equipment Company Ltd Ϻ廷޹˾ SHANGHAI GVE ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY CO , LTD Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai Hualida Industrial Co,Ltd лظˮ޹˾ Shenzhen Farada Valve Technology Co, Ltd ϺѲԿؼ޹˾ Shanghai Fiporter Auto-control Tech Co, Ltd н㹤ҵԿϵͳ޹˾ Shenzhen Champion Industrial Automation Ltd Ϻ»޹˾ shanghai JTU Xinde Environment Protect Co, Ltd 㽭˫źִ豸 ϾDZʵҵ޹˾ Ϻͽ޹˾ Shanghai Aikang New-style Building Material Co, Ltd żҸз峬е޹˾ й׿޹˾ EMEC CHINA CO, LTD ŵƼ޹˾ Precision Control Technology Co, Ltd ̨壨ǣʵҵɷ޹˾ ᣨǣŹҵ޹˾ Ϻưװϳ SHANGHAI WANKE CONTAINER FACTORY Ȫа޹˾ Oxo Environmental Engineering Co, Ltd ̩˻Ƽ˾ LANTEC ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD θﻷƼڣ޹˾ JIA FU BIO ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION TECHNOLOGY (SHEN ZHEN) CO, LTD º͹˲ϳ Ϻ߼ SHANGHAI 3H COMPUTER ʡ¿ϳ йҽҩϺѧԼ˾ China National Medicines Group Shanghai Chemical Reagent Company ݣ棩Ĥҵ޹˾ Hangzhou (Torch) Xidoumen Membrane Industries Co, Ltd ʡԣˮ豸޹˾ LIYANG YUHUA TREATMENT EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ɽ»̿޹˾ TANGSHAN JIANXIN ACTIVATED CARBON CO, LTD Ϻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI HUJING ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ϻѧйͶ޹˾ Dow Chemical (China) Investment Company Limited 㽭ǷƼ޹˾ 㽭γ޹˾ Ϻϴˮ޹˾ SHANGHAI SUNDR STAINLESS STEEL WATER CONTAINER CO, LTD Ϻ޹˾ ̨˻޹˾ TAIXING ENVIRONMENTEC CO, LTD Ϻ⻪޹˾ SHANGHAI GUANGHUA ALTOMETER INSTRUMENTS CO, LTD ̻е޹˾㽭 ֱ޹˾ YANGJIANG NEW YUEHUA STAWLESS STEEL PUMP COLTD Ϻ綯߷չ޹˾ Shanghai Runyang Electric Tool Development Co, Ltd ˳¸۷޹˾ SUNDE GANGFENG ELECTRIC CO, LTD ܽҵ޹˾ Advance Plastics Industrial Co, Ltd 豸޹˾ HANG ZHOU RONGXIN ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ޹˾ ʢ޹˾ Դдӱ̿ ϺΰؿƼеչ޹˾ ޹˾ Ϻ·Żе豸޹˾ еºΰ̿ Ӹˮװ ɽˮů޹˾ ܹɷ޹˾ CANGZHOU MINGZHU PLASTIC CO, LTD ޹˾ нϸˮ豸 Ϻط޹˾ݷܳ SHANGHAI FUDI VALVE CO, LTD ϺԶ豸޹˾ ԶṤе޹˾ 廪ͬɷ޹˾ TSING HUA TONG FANG CO, LTD Ϻ˫޹˾ SHANGHAI D & H INSTRUMENTS ݿʢ豸޹˾ KESHENG MECHANICAL & ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Լ޹˾ ANHENG TEST-TECH CO, LTD Ϻ쳤ԫ͹ܵ޹˾ Shanghai Aerospace Changyuan New Type Pipeline Co, Ltd Ϻ쾧Դ޹˾ Shanghai Environmental Project Tech Co, Ltd 촿ˮ豸 ǿ޹˾ Changzhou Pipelife Reinforced Plastic Co, Ltd жˮ豸޹˾ DONGDA WATER-PROCESSING EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ϺŵܽƷ޹˾ Shanghai Anrro Plastic Products Co, Ltd Ϻó޹˾ Good Morning Entr Co, Ltd( Shanghai ) Ϻδҵ޹˾ Shanghai Weilai Enterprise Co, Ltd ¹ǿƳɻ豸޹˾ WENZHOU LUCHENG KECHENG ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECT EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ˾ SHANGHAI CHAIODIN VALVE TRADING COLTD ˼ʵҵ޹˾ SHENZHEN SIMEIDA INDUSTRY CO,LTD Ϻݷʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Xintian Industrial Co, Ltd Ϻ̩˹ҵ޹˾ SHANGHAI PL TECHNOLOGIES CO, LTD 㽭޼Źɷ޹˾ ZHEJIANG KINGLAND GROUP CO, LTD Ϻʦͨ豸޹˾ Shanghai Bester Environmental Equipment Co, Ltd ۶ٽϹ޹˾Ϻ´ HONGKONG TUNG WING BUILDING MATERIALS SHANGHAI CO, LTD Ϻ껯޹˾ HENGYI CHEMICAL CO, LTD ɽϼŹɷ޹˾ FOSHAN PLASTICS GROUP CO, LTD ʯׯмܻ豸޹˾ SHIJIAZHUANG YINENG ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ŵ¿Ƽչ޹˾ MICRONET TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ϺͻƼ޹˾ 㽭ŷ޹˾ Ϻܻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI CANNATURE ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ۴ˮҵ ־ ӣй޹˾ ܺҵƼչ޹˾ BEIJING ZHONGNENGHENGYE TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ͨʵҵ޹˾ ϺŵܽƷ޹˾ ྻ޹˾ ɽǻƼ޹˾ ˫е豸޹˾ гǹҵ޹˾ Guangzhou Macrobiotic Star Pipes Co, Ltd ɽʳƷ豸쳧 NINGBO YONGGUANG TOOD MACHINERY CO, LTD ɽҵմоԺ Ͳմɹװ˾ еҵϢоԺ China Machinery Industry Information Institute кŶϳ Ϻ󷽿յ޹˾ SHANGHAI DAFANG AIR CONDITIONING CO, LTD Ϻɭ̩ͨŲҵ޹˾ 㽭ʡ֯ﰢ̩ܽƷ 弯޹˾ TWD CORPORATION LIMITED ---Ħ޹˾ BELLISS & MORCOM LTD ʢҵ޹˾ WUXI FUSHENG VALVE INDUSTRIAL CO, LTD 㽭²ʯ豸޹˾ Zhejiang Xinchang Deli Petrochemical Equipment Co, Ltd Ϻѹ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI CHAOLU COMPRSSOR PURIFICATION EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ϻϴ豸޹˾ Shanghai LISHI Cleaning Equipment Co, Ltd ϺַŹܼ޹˾ Shanghai Flow Valve & Fitting Co, Ltd Զ޹˾ MULTI-CONTROL I/E LTD Ϻʵҵ޹˾ KO PAN INDUSTRIAL CO, LTD ɽ̩еҵ޹˾ пӼо BEIJING INSTITUTE OF KEZHEN ELECTRONIC TECHNOLOGY Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai East Pump Manufacturing Co, Ltd ݼ޹˾ HANGZHOU ALKALI PUMP CO, LTD лʿ޹˾ һܷ Ҧŵŷ޹˾ Yuyao Sanlixin Solenoid Valve Co, Ltd Ϻѹ޹˾ SHANGHAI BOLAITE COMPRESSOR CO, LTD ɽ»λеҵ޹˾ SHANDONG ZHANGHUANG MACHINERY INDUSTRY CO, LTD ϺԶϵͳ޹˾ Keiyao(Shanghai) Fluid AutoControl Systems Co, LTD ͨ＼˾ Beijing Polytota Co, Ltd ϺԶó޹˾ Shanghai Grand International Trading Co,Ltd ҦDZij Ϻ޹˾ Burgmann shanghai Ltd ɽķ豸޹˾ Anshan Elom Controls Ltd ѹ־ ʯׯҵó Shijinazhuang industrial pump factory Ϻеܷ޹˾ Shanghai Minlian Mechanical Seal Co, Ltd ܷ Ningbo Fenghua Minlian Seal Parts Plant Դҵ޹˾ Shenyang Qiyuan Industrial Pump Manufacturing C0,Ltd ʨBоѹʵҵ޹˾ LIUZHOU YIFENG SCROLL COMPRESSOR CORPORATION ݵڶѹܳҵ пշ豸޹˾ RICH AIR SEPARATION CO, LTD ϺͰ޹˾ NICO VALVES CORP Ϻº޹˾ ͨ缼޹˾ ŷ۾ó޹˾ Hiltech International Co, Ltd Ϻ˹ѹ޹˾ Shanghai Screw Compressor Co, Ltd Ϻͨñû豸޹˾һˮó Shanghai First Pump Works ˮʨͨɻе޹˾ CNFC HAISHI NANTONG TIANCHENG MACHINERY CO, LTD и߲Ƽ޹˾ GUANGZHOU COPORWEY TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ÷ Pump & Valve Trading Net Ϻɱҵ޹˾ Shanghai Liancheng Pump-manufacture Co, Ltd ض豸޹˾ BEIJING GREATALL DYNAMIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ϻ˳ŷ Shanghai Chang Shun Valve Factory Ϻó޹˾ Shanghai Yanxin Trading Co, Ltd Ϻле޹˾ Shanghai Deuchi (Eco Cou) Machinaery Co, Ltd Ͳˮձó޹˾ ZIBO WATERRING VACUUM PUMP FACTORY CO, LTD мԴ豸޹˾ ӯҵɷ޹˾ ASTAM VALVE ENTERPRISE CO, LTD ɽʿеƷ޹˾ KUNSHAN ASTAM MACHINERY WARE CO, LTD е޹˾ Jinggang Kewei Machinery Manufacture Co, Ltd µ¹ҵι˾ Jiangxi Xinde Industrial Pump Co, Ltd DZ޹˾ ɽ޹˾ Kingdom Precision Castings Co, Ltd Ϻи׹ҵ޹˾ Ͼ̩߷ҵ޹˾ Taitgo Valve MFG Co, Ltd źԴҵ޹˾ ̨ие޹˾Ϻ´ TAIPEI LUCK MACHINERY CO, LTD Ϻ˻е޹˾ Schenck Shanghai Machinery CorpLtd 㶫輯 ˹оܻе޹˾ Scrollex (Guangzhou ) Compress Co, Ltd ɽÿƼɷ޹˾ Shandong Boshan Pump Science & Technology Co, Ltd з޹˾ ҦDZ޹˾ Ϻ SHANGHAI SHENLIAN TESTING MACHINERIES WORKS ȫͨŹܼ޹˾ SHENYANG QUANTONG VALVES PIPE-FITTINGS MANUFACTURE CO, LTD Ϻ¡ Shanghai Dalong Machinery Works Ϻ㿭е޹˾ Ϸֱó Ϻǻе豸޹˾ SHANGHAI PUMP-KIN MACHINERY CO, LTD 㽭Ừų Zhejiang Light Machinery Valve Plant Fenghua ϺǿDZ SHANGHAI XINGKONG METERS FACTORY ϺǿԶDZ޹˾ SHANGHAI XINGKONG AUTOMATION INSTRUMENTATION CO, LTD ϺԶϵͳ޹˾ Shanghai RoPo Automation Control System Co, Ltd Ҧŷ Yuyao Yongling Solenoid Valve Factory Ϻӻе޹˾ SHANGHAI HANBELL PRECISE MACHINERY COLTD ٸó׳޹˾ Ringier Trade Publishing Ltd Ϻַ޹˾ SHAGHAI HAIVEI SPECIAL VALVE MANUFACTURING CO, LTD Ϻ̩ҵ豸˾ Shanghai Tai Yang Industrial Constrols Equipment Co, Ltd ҫǹʹɷ޹˾ Star-Dynamic International, Lnc Shanghai Office 㽭ÿƼʵҵ޹˾ Zhejiang Yongjiu Scientific & Technological Industrial Co, Ltd ˳豸Ϻ˾ MARISO (Shanghai) Co, Ltd 깤ҵý Vogel Media Group ˳úȫܳ Fushun Coal Mine Safety Instrument General Factory ӢؿƼ޹˾ Beijing Yingtelai Technology Co,Ltd ذ޹˾ SHENZHEN EXTRA SAFETY ELECTRONICS COLTD ͨ޹˾ 廪չ޹˾ ݵ綯Ͳ޹˾ HUZHOU MOTORIZED DRUM CO, LTD ˻нij 㽭豸޹˾ Zhejiang Minan Fire Fighting Equipment Co, Ltd ʡ˻ е޹˾ Ningbo Huayuan Fire-fighting Equipment Manufacturing Co, Ltd 㶫ղƼɷ޹˾ 豸޹˾ Ningbo Jianli Fire Equipment Co, Ltd ·Ƽɷ޹˾ Dalian Luminglight Science End Tehnology Co, Ltd ̫䯺ӷŴ Ϻײ˾ Traypoint (Shanghai) Ltd عó޹˾ ɽ³ɷ޹˾ SHANDONG LUYANG SHARE CO, LTD ϺƼչ޹˾ SHANGHAI GUODA TECH DEVE LOPMENT CO, LTD Ϻη޹˾ SHANGHAI JINGJAI VALVE MANUFACTAYNG COLTD Ϻͽ޹˾ SHANGHAI BOMDER MODERN BVILDING MATERIALS CO, LTD ֶ豸˾ BEIJING HOVER TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ɽʡаij Laiwu White-elephant Fire-fighting Equipment Factory Ϻ־ ÷ йѹϢ Ϻѯչ޹˾ Ϻó޹˾ Shanghai Dongxi Trade Co, Ltd Ϻɭ޹˾ еȺӻ̿޹˾ ޹˾ Http:www.zhongmao.com.cn E-mail:zmzl@sh163.net ϵ绰021-54641713 54641743 棺021-64942305 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 6:45: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.sh163.net (mail5.sh163.net [202.96.194.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3485137B408 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 06:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (Rockmail 3577 invoked from network); 11 May 2002 13:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay) ([61.169.25.142]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sh163.net (Rockmail) with SMTP for ; 11 May 2002 13:43:54 -0000 Reply-To: zmzl@sh163.net From: zmzl@sh163.net To: 𾴵Ŀͻ@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ϻʻˮչ-Ļ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312_CHARSET" Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 21:49:02 +0800 Message-Id: <20020511134443.3485137B408@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 2002йϺʸˮˮչἰ2002йϺʻ 豸չ"2002515-17Ϻó̳¡ؾٰ졣 չձ¹ ôй̨ȹ400ҳ̲չչ10000ƽ ףͬʱҵȨʿ֪ҵٰרⱨ ᡣ ӭصλǰι չĿ¼ DongSuh Environment Technology Co, Ltd ƺ Hwang Hae Electric еҵ˻ Korea Association Of Machinery Industry һ޹˾ CHEIL ENTECCO, LTD SHENYANG OFFICE ¹¼ A FRIEDRFLENDERGMBH ձʽ SATSUKI CO, LTD SHANGHAI OFFICE ձʽҰ KASHINO & CO, LTD SHANGHAI REPRESENTATIVE OFFICE ŵ̫޹˾ Noveon Chemicals Asia Pacific Ltd ˹ٻ豸޹˾ Beijing Hi-Standard Environmental Equipment Co, Ltd ɣ»ҵ Beijing SOUND Environmental Industry Group Corporation ̨^hO乤IͬI TAIWAN ENVIRONMENTAL MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION 㼼g̣ɣ˾ DIAMOND TECHNICAL & TRADING CORP ϺCsO޹˾ SHANGHAILIANG CHI COOLING EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ƽɣ˾ GASTECH CO, LTD Iɣ˾ FENG GUH ENTERPRISE CO, LTD MƼɣ˾ YEAMEEI ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ͬI޹˾ SAME CO,LTD ѺͻϹɷ޹˾ YUHO REFRACTORIES CO, LTD Ҋ늙CIɣ˾ HCP PUMP MANUFACTURER CO, LTD ݭhƼɣ˾ KJ ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNDOGY CO, LTD 죨ɣ˾ TRUSTEWLL INDUSTRIAL LTD ݸгhO侭Ӫ RYOSEI NACGUBE UBDYSTRAK EBTERORUSE CO, LTD ]I޹˾ BAG FILTER ENTERPRISE CO, LTD ȫʢԴƼɷ޹˾ EverGlory Resource Technology CO, LTD (ERT) ̨ҵչЭᣨBCSD-Taiwan Ƽ̹ɷ޹˾ ټ˾ ŷ˹Ժ ŷй֯ҵо China Textile Institute ŷ＼ Development Center for Biotechnology ŷ̨ɫ Taiwan Green Productivity Foundation Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Zean Industrial Co, Ltd ¹ãй/ۣ޹˾ Burkert Contromatic (China/HK) Ltd ϺԴе޹˾ Shanghai Chuan Yuan Mechanical Engineering Co,Ltd ǴƷ޹˾ CHINAUST PLASTICS CORPLTD Ԫʿʹɷ޹˾ HUN-YUAN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOP CONSULTING CO, LTD ޹˾ Wonder Electric Co, Ltd Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Amstar Enterprises Co, Ltd ϺǻƼչ޹˾ Shanghai KATHY Environmental Protection Technology Development Co, Ltd ϺĹķ޹˾ Shanghai Huagu Blower Manufactory 񻷾豸޹˾ Zhaomin Environmental Engineering Equipment Co ʡе Jiangsu Province Zhuze Machinery Factory ̩޹˾ Beijing Ample Technology Instrument Co, Ltd ¿ؼ Daifu MO Group Ltd ϺŻƷ޹˾ SHANGHAI FAYA ENVIRONMENTAL PRODUCTS CO, LTD Ƽ޹˾ JC EnvorTech Engineering Co, Ltd ɹűعҵ޹˾ INNER MONGOLIA NORTH HEAVY INDUSTRIES GROUP CO, LTD ϾʥԴˮ޹˾ NANJING SHENG YUAN WATER TREATMENT TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ݹҵ԰˹Ͳܽͷ޹˾ Suzhou Industrial Park Straub Pipe-Joint Co, Ltd еºϺʿȱ޹˾ KSB SHANGHAI PUMP CO, LTD նеϺ޹˾ NITTO P & M ENGINEERING (SHANGHAI)CO, LTD ӱҵеɷ޹˾ ͷι˾ ˮҵչ޹˾ Shenzhen ZhongRun Water Industry Technology Development Co ,Ltd Ԫˮҵй޹˾ DUO YUAN CLEAN WATER TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRIES CHINA COLTD ˾HANGHAI YOSI I ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ENQUIPMENT CO,LTD Ϻȶ޹˾ Shanghai Chaiodin Valve Trading Co, Ltd Ϻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI WIDELEE ENVIRONTEC CO, LTD ϺҰ޹˾ Shanghai Ye Ma EPE Co, Ltd Ϻ豸޹˾ Everpure Shanghai Water Treatment Co, Ltd е޹˾ Hangzhou Ningda Machinery Co, Ltd ٱҵ޹˾ Jiangmen Ruirong Pump Industry , Ltd Guangdong ʢ޹˾ Fuyang Shengda Mechanical And Electrical Manufacturing Co, Ltd ɽѧɽҵܹ˾ SHANDONG HEART GENERAL COMPANY Ϻ׿Զϵͳ̷޹˾ Shang ACS Co, Ltd ޹˾Ϻ REHAU LIMITED, SHANGHAI REPOFFICE ϺͶֹܳ Shanghai Laodong Steel Pipe Works ձʣɶܻе޹˾ CHENGDU YAMATO HEAT ENERGY MACHINERY CO, LTD Ͼ̶ܻװι˾ Nanjing Bidun Environmental Protection Equipment Co, Ltd Ϻҵ޹˾ SHANGHAI YOULI PIPES CO, LTD ݰˮ豸޹˾ Huzhou Bangde Water Treatment Equipment Co, Ltd ˹ݣ޹˾ Frings Xuzhou Bio-and Chemical Technology Co, Ltd 㶫ʡݸкָԪе Fu Yuan Machinery Plant Hou-jie Town, Dong Guan Guang Dong-China ²ϼ޹˾ Beijing Liquid Filter New Material Technique Co, Ltd ߺл̩ʵҵ޹˾ Wuhu Huatai Industry Co, Ltd żҸк˻豸޹˾ Hongxing Environmental Protection Equipment Co, Ltd ּš⽭޹˾ Kelin Group Wujiang Baodai Dedusting Co, Ltd Զܽҵ޹˾ Far-Eastern (Ningbo) Plastics & Metals Industrial Co, Ltd 븴ϲϹ˾ XI'AN CHAOMA COMPOSITE MATERIALS CO, LTD 辻ˮƼɽ޹˾ HSIN CHI WATER PURIFIED TECHNOLOGY (KUN SHAN) CO, LTD ŷ½ǣй޹˾ EURO TECH (CHINA) LTD ̩޹˾ Tianjin Huatai Stainless Steel Containers Co,Ltd ޻Ƽ˾ Beijing Huanyu Luzhou Environmental Protect Science Technology Co, Ltd а»ݣ߿Ƽ޹˾ Zhong-ao Environment Protection (Su Zhou) High-tech Co, Ltd ϿƼչ޹˾ Ƶɭ¼ BEIJING KEDISN NEW TECH DEVCENTER 򻷱޹˾ SHENYANG DAYIN ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING CO, LTD ´½Ƽ޹˾ Fujian Newland Entech Co, Ltd ϺˮǻƼ޹˾ SMET CO, LTD ʯׯƴDZ˾ SHIJIAZHUANG KODA CO, LTD Ϻоˮѧ Ϻó޹˾ SHANGHAI JUNYU TRADING CO, LTD Ϻˮ޹˾ ݴ豸޹˾ Hangzhou Chunjiang Environment Protect Co,Ltd Ϻܽ޹˾ Shanghai Yaxin Plastic Containers Co, Ltd ϺĻео Shanghai Centrifuge Institute (SCI) 춫ŷ Ϻ̿޹˾ ϺǼ޹˾ ϺǸ豸 Shanghai Huanxing Viberation Absorber Co, Ltd ־Ʒݣ޹˾ CHAMPION ENGINEERING FUZHOU CORPORATION Ϻʢ޹˾ Shanghai Yeh-Sheng Machinery Co, Ltd ҵ GALI CIER/SACRIA GROUP Ϻó޹˾ SHANGHAI LINGYA TRADING CO, LTD ϺˮƼ޹˾ Shanghai Chanitex Water-dupose Technology Co, Ltd ܹóףϺ޹˾ ON GEAR TRADING (SHANGHAI)CO, LTD ÷---Ϻ޹˾ Mettler-Toledo Instruments (Shanghai) Co,Ltd Ż豸޹˾ CHANGZHOU SANXIN ENVIRONMENTAL SANTARY AND PROTECTION EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ƽ޹˾ Beijing Rich Orient Envi Tech Co, Ltd Ϻʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Hanhai Industry Co, Ltd ݰ˼ؾ豸޹˾ Changzhou EST Purification Equipment Co, Ltd ŷĤ޹˾ Dalian Eurofilm Industrial Ltd ൺڿҺ޹˾ ϺDZ޹˾ Shanghai Haiheng Mechanical & Electronic Co, Ltd Ӣά˼ϵͳˮй´ Invensys Metering Systems Water Meter China (Ningbo) Office ܼ3531 㽭ư޹˾ Zhejiang Touw Environment Engineering Co,Ltd ϺƼ޹˾ Shanghai Hydantoin Chemical Co, Ltd ϺӢջ޹˾ Shanghai EnPro Environmental Technology Co, Ltd ˳жҵ޹˾ Dongfang Lusuguan Co, Ltd ݽԴ޹˾ Hangzhou Jinjiang Protect Energy Co, Ltd ̨ҵ޹˾ TAIZHOU ZHONGTIAN PLASTICCO, LTD Ԫͨе޹˾ Hangzhou Yuantong Machinery Co, Ltd ȼ޹˾ Jialing( Dalian) Heat Transfer Technology Co, Ltd ϵ޹˾ QiDi Electric Group Co, Ltd ʡ֥ﾻ Ҧн̩DZ޹˾ ҦҵԶDZ ޹˾ Jiangsu Zhengchang Group Co, Ltd Ϻַ޹˾ Shanghai Carrier Special Valve Co, Ltd ݾ޹˾ Hangzhou Jingda Electronic Co, Ltd ֤˹ɷ޹˾ ⻷޹˾ CHEN HSINN ENTERPRISE COMPANY LIMITED Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai Nikuni Pumps Co, L td ˹ͲϷչ޹˾ FUSITE NEW TYPE MATERIAL DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ʤ豸޹˾ Pusheng Protect Environments Equipment Co, Ltd Ȼ豸ҵ޹˾豸 Hubei Great Nature Environmental Protection Equipment Industry Co, Ltd ̩ϾƼ޹˾ KEMFLO (NANJING) ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNICAL CO, LTD ܽ޹˾ Ronglin Plastic Industrial (Fu Jian) Co, Ltd ˮ˼Դ-¹߿Ƽƹ˾ NBCC-WR ºһó޹˾ TIAN JIN SHIN HAN IL INTERNATIONAL TRADE CO, LTD ж޹˾ Shenzhen Dongjiang Environmental Protection Technology Co, Ltd Ϻ̹豸޹˾ Encore Engineering Equipment Company Ltd Ϻ廷޹˾ SHANGHAI GVE ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY CO , LTD Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai Hualida Industrial Co,Ltd лظˮ޹˾ Shenzhen Farada Valve Technology Co, Ltd ϺѲԿؼ޹˾ Shanghai Fiporter Auto-control Tech Co, Ltd н㹤ҵԿϵͳ޹˾ Shenzhen Champion Industrial Automation Ltd Ϻ»޹˾ shanghai JTU Xinde Environment Protect Co, Ltd 㽭˫źִ豸 ϾDZʵҵ޹˾ Ϻͽ޹˾ Shanghai Aikang New-style Building Material Co, Ltd żҸз峬е޹˾ й׿޹˾ EMEC CHINA CO, LTD ŵƼ޹˾ Precision Control Technology Co, Ltd ̨壨ǣʵҵɷ޹˾ ᣨǣŹҵ޹˾ Ϻưװϳ SHANGHAI WANKE CONTAINER FACTORY Ȫа޹˾ Oxo Environmental Engineering Co, Ltd ̩˻Ƽ˾ LANTEC ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD θﻷƼڣ޹˾ JIA FU BIO ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION TECHNOLOGY (SHEN ZHEN) CO, LTD º͹˲ϳ Ϻ߼ SHANGHAI 3H COMPUTER ʡ¿ϳ йҽҩϺѧԼ˾ China National Medicines Group Shanghai Chemical Reagent Company ݣ棩Ĥҵ޹˾ Hangzhou (Torch) Xidoumen Membrane Industries Co, Ltd ʡԣˮ豸޹˾ LIYANG YUHUA TREATMENT EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ɽ»̿޹˾ TANGSHAN JIANXIN ACTIVATED CARBON CO, LTD Ϻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI HUJING ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ϻѧйͶ޹˾ Dow Chemical (China) Investment Company Limited 㽭ǷƼ޹˾ 㽭γ޹˾ Ϻϴˮ޹˾ SHANGHAI SUNDR STAINLESS STEEL WATER CONTAINER CO, LTD Ϻ޹˾ ̨˻޹˾ TAIXING ENVIRONMENTEC CO, LTD Ϻ⻪޹˾ SHANGHAI GUANGHUA ALTOMETER INSTRUMENTS CO, LTD ̻е޹˾㽭 ֱ޹˾ YANGJIANG NEW YUEHUA STAWLESS STEEL PUMP COLTD Ϻ綯߷չ޹˾ Shanghai Runyang Electric Tool Development Co, Ltd ˳¸۷޹˾ SUNDE GANGFENG ELECTRIC CO, LTD ܽҵ޹˾ Advance Plastics Industrial Co, Ltd 豸޹˾ HANG ZHOU RONGXIN ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ޹˾ ʢ޹˾ Դдӱ̿ ϺΰؿƼеչ޹˾ ޹˾ Ϻ·Żе豸޹˾ еºΰ̿ Ӹˮװ ɽˮů޹˾ ܹɷ޹˾ CANGZHOU MINGZHU PLASTIC CO, LTD ޹˾ нϸˮ豸 Ϻط޹˾ݷܳ SHANGHAI FUDI VALVE CO, LTD ϺԶ豸޹˾ ԶṤе޹˾ 廪ͬɷ޹˾ TSING HUA TONG FANG CO, LTD Ϻ˫޹˾ SHANGHAI D & H INSTRUMENTS ݿʢ豸޹˾ KESHENG MECHANICAL & ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Լ޹˾ ANHENG TEST-TECH CO, LTD Ϻ쳤ԫ͹ܵ޹˾ Shanghai Aerospace Changyuan New Type Pipeline Co, Ltd Ϻ쾧Դ޹˾ Shanghai Environmental Project Tech Co, Ltd 촿ˮ豸 ǿ޹˾ Changzhou Pipelife Reinforced Plastic Co, Ltd жˮ豸޹˾ DONGDA WATER-PROCESSING EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ϺŵܽƷ޹˾ Shanghai Anrro Plastic Products Co, Ltd Ϻó޹˾ Good Morning Entr Co, Ltd( Shanghai ) Ϻδҵ޹˾ Shanghai Weilai Enterprise Co, Ltd ¹ǿƳɻ豸޹˾ WENZHOU LUCHENG KECHENG ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECT EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ˾ SHANGHAI CHAIODIN VALVE TRADING COLTD ˼ʵҵ޹˾ SHENZHEN SIMEIDA INDUSTRY CO,LTD Ϻݷʵҵ޹˾ Shanghai Xintian Industrial Co, Ltd Ϻ̩˹ҵ޹˾ SHANGHAI PL TECHNOLOGIES CO, LTD 㽭޼Źɷ޹˾ ZHEJIANG KINGLAND GROUP CO, LTD Ϻʦͨ豸޹˾ Shanghai Bester Environmental Equipment Co, Ltd ۶ٽϹ޹˾Ϻ´ HONGKONG TUNG WING BUILDING MATERIALS SHANGHAI CO, LTD Ϻ껯޹˾ HENGYI CHEMICAL CO, LTD ɽϼŹɷ޹˾ FOSHAN PLASTICS GROUP CO, LTD ʯׯмܻ豸޹˾ SHIJIAZHUANG YINENG ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ŵ¿Ƽչ޹˾ MICRONET TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ϺͻƼ޹˾ 㽭ŷ޹˾ Ϻܻ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI CANNATURE ENVIRONMENTAL EQUIPMENT CO, LTD ۴ˮҵ ־ ӣй޹˾ ܺҵƼչ޹˾ BEIJING ZHONGNENGHENGYE TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ͨʵҵ޹˾ ϺŵܽƷ޹˾ ྻ޹˾ ɽǻƼ޹˾ ˫е豸޹˾ гǹҵ޹˾ Guangzhou Macrobiotic Star Pipes Co, Ltd ɽʳƷ豸쳧 NINGBO YONGGUANG TOOD MACHINERY CO, LTD ɽҵմоԺ Ͳմɹװ˾ еҵϢоԺ China Machinery Industry Information Institute кŶϳ Ϻ󷽿յ޹˾ SHANGHAI DAFANG AIR CONDITIONING CO, LTD Ϻɭ̩ͨŲҵ޹˾ 㽭ʡ֯ﰢ̩ܽƷ 弯޹˾ TWD CORPORATION LIMITED ---Ħ޹˾ BELLISS & MORCOM LTD ʢҵ޹˾ WUXI FUSHENG VALVE INDUSTRIAL CO, LTD 㽭²ʯ豸޹˾ Zhejiang Xinchang Deli Petrochemical Equipment Co, Ltd Ϻѹ豸޹˾ SHANGHAI CHAOLU COMPRSSOR PURIFICATION EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ϻϴ豸޹˾ Shanghai LISHI Cleaning Equipment Co, Ltd ϺַŹܼ޹˾ Shanghai Flow Valve & Fitting Co, Ltd Զ޹˾ MULTI-CONTROL I/E LTD Ϻʵҵ޹˾ KO PAN INDUSTRIAL CO, LTD ɽ̩еҵ޹˾ пӼо BEIJING INSTITUTE OF KEZHEN ELECTRONIC TECHNOLOGY Ϻҵ޹˾ Shanghai East Pump Manufacturing Co, Ltd ݼ޹˾ HANGZHOU ALKALI PUMP CO, LTD лʿ޹˾ һܷ Ҧŵŷ޹˾ Yuyao Sanlixin Solenoid Valve Co, Ltd Ϻѹ޹˾ SHANGHAI BOLAITE COMPRESSOR CO, LTD ɽ»λеҵ޹˾ SHANDONG ZHANGHUANG MACHINERY INDUSTRY CO, LTD ϺԶϵͳ޹˾ Keiyao(Shanghai) Fluid AutoControl Systems Co, LTD ͨ＼˾ Beijing Polytota Co, Ltd ϺԶó޹˾ Shanghai Grand International Trading Co,Ltd ҦDZij Ϻ޹˾ Burgmann shanghai Ltd ɽķ豸޹˾ Anshan Elom Controls Ltd ѹ־ ʯׯҵó Shijinazhuang industrial pump factory Ϻеܷ޹˾ Shanghai Minlian Mechanical Seal Co, Ltd ܷ Ningbo Fenghua Minlian Seal Parts Plant Դҵ޹˾ Shenyang Qiyuan Industrial Pump Manufacturing C0,Ltd ʨBоѹʵҵ޹˾ LIUZHOU YIFENG SCROLL COMPRESSOR CORPORATION ݵڶѹܳҵ пշ豸޹˾ RICH AIR SEPARATION CO, LTD ϺͰ޹˾ NICO VALVES CORP Ϻº޹˾ ͨ缼޹˾ ŷ۾ó޹˾ Hiltech International Co, Ltd Ϻ˹ѹ޹˾ Shanghai Screw Compressor Co, Ltd Ϻͨñû豸޹˾һˮó Shanghai First Pump Works ˮʨͨɻе޹˾ CNFC HAISHI NANTONG TIANCHENG MACHINERY CO, LTD и߲Ƽ޹˾ GUANGZHOU COPORWEY TECHNOLOGY CO, LTD ÷ Pump & Valve Trading Net Ϻɱҵ޹˾ Shanghai Liancheng Pump-manufacture Co, Ltd ض豸޹˾ BEIJING GREATALL DYNAMIC EQUIPMENT CO, LTD Ϻ˳ŷ Shanghai Chang Shun Valve Factory Ϻó޹˾ Shanghai Yanxin Trading Co, Ltd Ϻле޹˾ Shanghai Deuchi (Eco Cou) Machinaery Co, Ltd Ͳˮձó޹˾ ZIBO WATERRING VACUUM PUMP FACTORY CO, LTD мԴ豸޹˾ ӯҵɷ޹˾ ASTAM VALVE ENTERPRISE CO, LTD ɽʿеƷ޹˾ KUNSHAN ASTAM MACHINERY WARE CO, LTD е޹˾ Jinggang Kewei Machinery Manufacture Co, Ltd µ¹ҵι˾ Jiangxi Xinde Industrial Pump Co, Ltd DZ޹˾ ɽ޹˾ Kingdom Precision Castings Co, Ltd Ϻи׹ҵ޹˾ Ͼ̩߷ҵ޹˾ Taitgo Valve MFG Co, Ltd źԴҵ޹˾ ̨ие޹˾Ϻ´ TAIPEI LUCK MACHINERY CO, LTD Ϻ˻е޹˾ Schenck Shanghai Machinery CorpLtd 㶫輯 ˹оܻе޹˾ Scrollex (Guangzhou ) Compress Co, Ltd ɽÿƼɷ޹˾ Shandong Boshan Pump Science & Technology Co, Ltd з޹˾ ҦDZ޹˾ Ϻ SHANGHAI SHENLIAN TESTING MACHINERIES WORKS ȫͨŹܼ޹˾ SHENYANG QUANTONG VALVES PIPE-FITTINGS MANUFACTURE CO, LTD Ϻ¡ Shanghai Dalong Machinery Works Ϻ㿭е޹˾ Ϸֱó Ϻǻе豸޹˾ SHANGHAI PUMP-KIN MACHINERY CO, LTD 㽭Ừų Zhejiang Light Machinery Valve Plant Fenghua ϺǿDZ SHANGHAI XINGKONG METERS FACTORY ϺǿԶDZ޹˾ SHANGHAI XINGKONG AUTOMATION INSTRUMENTATION CO, LTD ϺԶϵͳ޹˾ Shanghai RoPo Automation Control System Co, Ltd Ҧŷ Yuyao Yongling Solenoid Valve Factory Ϻӻе޹˾ SHANGHAI HANBELL PRECISE MACHINERY COLTD ٸó׳޹˾ Ringier Trade Publishing Ltd Ϻַ޹˾ SHAGHAI HAIVEI SPECIAL VALVE MANUFACTURING CO, LTD Ϻ̩ҵ豸˾ Shanghai Tai Yang Industrial Constrols Equipment Co, Ltd ҫǹʹɷ޹˾ Star-Dynamic International, Lnc Shanghai Office 㽭ÿƼʵҵ޹˾ Zhejiang Yongjiu Scientific & Technological Industrial Co, Ltd ˳豸Ϻ˾ MARISO (Shanghai) Co, Ltd 깤ҵý Vogel Media Group ˳úȫܳ Fushun Coal Mine Safety Instrument General Factory ӢؿƼ޹˾ Beijing Yingtelai Technology Co,Ltd ذ޹˾ SHENZHEN EXTRA SAFETY ELECTRONICS COLTD ͨ޹˾ 廪չ޹˾ ݵ綯Ͳ޹˾ HUZHOU MOTORIZED DRUM CO, LTD ˻нij 㽭豸޹˾ Zhejiang Minan Fire Fighting Equipment Co, Ltd ʡ˻ е޹˾ Ningbo Huayuan Fire-fighting Equipment Manufacturing Co, Ltd 㶫ղƼɷ޹˾ 豸޹˾ Ningbo Jianli Fire Equipment Co, Ltd ·Ƽɷ޹˾ Dalian Luminglight Science End Tehnology Co, Ltd ̫䯺ӷŴ Ϻײ˾ Traypoint (Shanghai) Ltd عó޹˾ ɽ³ɷ޹˾ SHANDONG LUYANG SHARE CO, LTD ϺƼչ޹˾ SHANGHAI GUODA TECH DEVE LOPMENT CO, LTD Ϻη޹˾ SHANGHAI JINGJAI VALVE MANUFACTAYNG COLTD Ϻͽ޹˾ SHANGHAI BOMDER MODERN BVILDING MATERIALS CO, LTD ֶ豸˾ BEIJING HOVER TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT CO, LTD ɽʡаij Laiwu White-elephant Fire-fighting Equipment Factory Ϻ־ ÷ йѹϢ Ϻѯչ޹˾ Ϻó޹˾ Shanghai Dongxi Trade Co, Ltd Ϻɭ޹˾ еȺӻ̿޹˾ ޹˾ Http:www.zhongmao.com.cn E-mail:zmzl@sh163.net ϵ绰021-54641713 54641743 棺021-64942305 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 6:57: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from crusaders.powertech.no (crusaders.powertech.no [195.159.50.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DB12D37B40A for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 06:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1503 invoked by uid 505); 11 May 2002 13:51:44 -0000 Date: 11 May 2002 13:51:44 -0000 In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-RT-Loop-Prevention: Gathering.org Content-Type: text/plain Subject: [Gathering.org #2257] AutoReply: Senior Vice President RT-Originator: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: PT-help Managed-BY: Request Tracker 2.0.11 (http://www.fsck.com/projects/rt/) RT-Ticket: Gathering.org #2257 MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: PThelp@gathering.org Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailer: Perl5 Mail::Internet v1.43 Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, This message has been automatically generated in response to the creation of a trouble ticket regarding: "Senior Vice President", a summary of which appears below. ********************************************************** *It might take up to 48 hours for us to get to your case.* ********************************************************** There is no need to reply to this message right now. Your ticket has been assigned an ID of [Gathering.org #2257]. Please include the string: [Gathering.org #2257] in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. To do so, you may reply to this message. Thank you, PThelp@gathering.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hei, Denne meldingen er automatisk sendt til deg for indikere at en sak har blitt laget i vrt system ang: "Senior Vice President", En kopi av saken er nedenfor. ********************************************* *Det kan ta opptil 48 timer fr du fr svar.* ********************************************* Det er ikke ndvendig svare p denne meldingen akkurat n. Din sak har ftt en ID i vrt system : [Gathering.org #2257]. Venligst inkluder flgene i Emne/Subject i all vidre korrespondanse: [Gathering.org #2257] Takk,PThelp@gathering.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 8:14:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F374837B401 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 08:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4BFEhla000500 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 17:14:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g4BFEh1Q000495 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 May 2002 17:14:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:14:43 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: USB to serial converter support? Message-ID: <20020511171443.A463@freebie.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.6-PRERELEASE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, I'm to get a laptop without serial port. Now did I find a USB-serial adapter, which reports itself as: ugen0: ATEN International Serial adapter, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 2 I also found (in -stable): # Firmware download for Entrega Serial DB25 adapter. # device "Entrega Serial with UART" product 0x8001 vendor 0x1645 release 0x0101 attach "if ! kldstat -n usio > /dev/null 2>&1 ; then kldload usio; fi" attach "/usr/sbin/ezdownload -v -f /usr/share/usb/firmware/1645.8001.010 1 /dev/${DEVNAME}" Is that kld usio something that is generically usable for USB-serial converters? If yes, where can I find it, I don't seem to have an usio around. tia (and please bear with me, this is my first USB device) Wilko -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Arnhem, the Netherlands To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 8:23:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3AA37B41B for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 08:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26112 invoked from network); 11 May 2002 15:22:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 11 May 2002 15:22:46 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (laptop.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.4]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4BFMiF49270; Sat, 11 May 2002 11:22:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3CDCCE83.66AEF4BB@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:22:41 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 11-May-2002 Terry Lambert wrote: > I don't understand the "YES"/"NO" thing, then. There is one byte > difference in the file length, which I don't think can be properly > accounted, if you do the "YES"/"NO" thing. He could make it NES for all it matters. Terry, please see that Gordon isn't trying to reimplement Whistle's nextboot. Personally, I'm tired of missing the window in the loader to boot a test kernel, so what I want is to do 'nextboot foo -s' to boot /boot/foo/kernel into single user mode on the next boot and fall back to /boot/kernel/kernel on the next boot after that. >> > Don't assume that the nextboot file will be on the same disk and/or >> > partition as the boot and other config file code. >> >> Well, I'm assuming it's on the root partition. It would be kinda silly for >> it to anywhere else. > > Not really. Consider that if I switch root partitions, then, by > definition, I switch nextboot files. > > Basically, the InterJet was laid out: Repeat after me: This nextboot != Interjet nextboot. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 9:35:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC13F37B405; Sat, 11 May 2002 09:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0191.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.191] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 176Zq2-0007IS-00; Sat, 11 May 2002 09:35:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3CDD4828.27B877D7@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 09:34:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > Terry, please see that Gordon isn't trying to reimplement Whistle's nextboot. > > Personally, I'm tired of missing the window in the loader to boot a test > kernel, so what I want is to do 'nextboot foo -s' to boot /boot/foo/kernel > into single user mode on the next boot and fall back to /boot/kernel/kernel > on the next boot after that. [ ... ] > Repeat after me: This nextboot != Interjet nextboot. Repeat after Gordon: Gordon Tetlow writes: ] Is there anything that is wrong with the conceptual implementation of the ] nextboot loader code that I've submitted? It definitely needs a code ] cleanup on the forth side (which I'm not qualified to do), but if there ] are no other objections, I'd really like to see this code committed. He solicited comments/objections. I've commented/objected. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 13:13:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from screech.weirdnoise.com (209-128-78-198.BAYAREA.NET [209.128.78.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0607137B406 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 13:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from screech.weirdnoise.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by screech.weirdnoise.com (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g4BKFt390577 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 13:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200205112015.g4BKFt390577@screech.weirdnoise.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Memory and Reality Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:15:55 -0700 From: Ed Hall Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At Yahoo! we use a lot of shared memory, both in the form of .so's and for IPC. It would be very useful to be able to accurately measure the amount of shared and private memory associated with a process, the number of references to a given shared memory object, resident vs. non- resident pages, and so forth. Determining just what is shared and by how many is the hardest part. When I asked Peter Wemm about sussing out this sort of info from proc/*/map, he made some comments about the difficulty of knowing what actually was shared and what wasn't, how the refcounts aren't exactly what one might think they are, and so forth. The same sort of ambiguity seemed to exist regarding just what is resident (with the term defined as "in RAM with no need to retrieve from secondary storage") and what isn't. Are things really this bad? Is there a tool out there that can make sense of FreeBSD's memory state with more accuracy and detail than "ps" or "top"? This is a serious issue. Whether this is exclusively a FreeBSD problem or not, developers tend to see it that way. -Ed To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 14: 7:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7376237B403 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g4BL7fla001791 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 23:07:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g4BL7ffB001790 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 11 May 2002 23:07:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 23:07:41 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: USB to serial converter support? Message-ID: <20020511230741.A1773@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20020511171443.A463@freebie.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020511171443.A463@freebie.xs4all.nl>; from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl on Sat, May 11, 2002 at 05:14:43PM +0200 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.6-PRERELEASE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 11, 2002 at 05:14:43PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: Nevermind, I found uplcom on -current. Not on -stable though (yet?) Wilko > Hi there, > > I'm to get a laptop without serial port. Now did I find a USB-serial > adapter, which reports itself as: > > ugen0: ATEN International Serial adapter, rev 1.10/0.01, addr 2 > > I also found (in -stable): > > # Firmware download for Entrega Serial DB25 adapter. > # > device "Entrega Serial with UART" > product 0x8001 > vendor 0x1645 > release 0x0101 > attach "if ! kldstat -n usio > /dev/null 2>&1 ; then kldload usio; > fi" > attach "/usr/sbin/ezdownload -v -f > /usr/share/usb/firmware/1645.8001.010 > 1 /dev/${DEVNAME}" > > Is that kld usio something that is generically usable for USB-serial > converters? If yes, where can I find it, I don't seem to have an usio > around. > > tia (and please bear with me, this is my first USB device) > > Wilko > > -- > | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org > |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Arnhem, the Netherlands > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ---end of quoted text--- -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Arnhem, the Netherlands To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 15:53:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wartch.sapros.com (rularan.sapros.com [204.182.55.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6D837B40B for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wartch.sapros.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wartch.sapros.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g4BMrVUn041734 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 15:53:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peterh@wartch.sapros.com) Message-Id: <200205112253.g4BMrVUn041734@wartch.sapros.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: gethostbyname2 and AF_INET6 Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 15:53:31 -0700 From: Peter Haight X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=7.0 tests=NO_MX_FOR_FROM version=2.11 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Recently mozilla has been really slow resolving some DNS queries. I tracked this down to a call to gethostbyname2. For some addresses (e.g. 'www.vanguard.com'), gethostbyname2 with AF_INET6 will fail and takes more than a minute. I verified this with my own short program that does nothing but call gethostbyname2. I've attached a tcpdump of two DNS lookups. One is against 'www.vanguard.com' which takes about a minute and thirty seconds to come back with an 'Host name lookup failure'. The second log is against 'www.google.com' and it returns almost immediately with 'No address associated with name'. Can someone explain to me what's going on? Thanks. --- Log of gethostbyname2('www.vanguard.com', AF_INET6) --- 15:43:20.359250 255.128.174.zip > 0.0.zip: at-#6 25 15:43:21.033482 talri.sapros.com.1640 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:21.358839 talri.sapros.com.1641 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 42707+ PTR? 1.1.10.10.in-addr.arpa. (40) 15:43:21.359253 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1641: 42707* 1/1/1 PTR[|domain] 15:43:21.359618 talri.sapros.com.1642 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 42708+ PTR? 9.1.10.10.in-addr.arpa. (40) 15:43:21.359965 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1642: 42708* 1/1/1 PTR[|domain] 15:43:21.408548 255.128.174.zip > 0.0.zip: at-#6 25 15:43:22.458620 255.128.174.zip > 0.0.zip: at-#6 25 15:43:24.258444 0:40:1:80:22:d6 > Broadcast sap e0 ui/C >>> Unknown IPX Data: (79 bytes) [000] FF FF 00 60 00 04 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF ...`.... ........ [010] 04 52 00 00 00 00 00 40 01 80 22 D6 04 52 00 02 .R.....@ .."..R.. [020] 55 AA 5A 4F 54 2D 50 53 38 30 32 32 44 36 00 00 U.ZOT-PS 8022D6.. [030] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ ........ [040] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ ....... len=97 ffff 0060 0004 0000 0000 ffff ffff ffff 0452 0000 0000 0040 0180 22d6 0452 0002 55aa 5a4f 542d 5053 3830 3232 4436 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00 15:43:26.037875 talri.sapros.com.1643 > mxrelay.lanminds.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:26.358016 talri.sapros.com.1644 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 42709+ PTR? 6.88.25.208.in-addr.arpa. (42) 15:43:26.358693 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1644: 42709 1/4/4 PTR[|domain] 15:43:26.922809 wartch.sapros.com.11512 > talri.sapros.com.1074: . 1417795364:1417795365(1) ack 1842336180 win 33304 (DF) 15:43:26.922873 talri.sapros.com.1074 > wartch.sapros.com.11512: . ack 0 win 0 (DF) 15:43:31.047974 talri.sapros.com.1645 > ns2.lmi.net.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:31.358121 talri.sapros.com.1646 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 42710+ PTR? 5.64.25.208.in-addr.arpa. (42) 15:43:31.359089 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1646: 42710 1/3/2 PTR[|domain] 15:43:36.058129 talri.sapros.com.1647 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:37.358336 talri.sapros.com.1648 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 42711+ PTR? 47.203.186.198.in-addr.arpa. (45) 15:43:37.360077 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1648: 42711 1/3/0 (149) 15:43:39.068217 talri.sapros.com.1649 > mxrelay.lanminds.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:42.078303 talri.sapros.com.nkd > ns2.lmi.net.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:45.088393 talri.sapros.com.shiva_confsrvr > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:51.098565 talri.sapros.com.xnmp > mxrelay.lanminds.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:43:53.163592 wartch.sapros.com.11512 > talri.sapros.com.1074: . 0:1(1) ack 1 win 33304 (DF) 15:43:53.163683 talri.sapros.com.1074 > wartch.sapros.com.11512: . ack 0 win 0 (DF) 15:43:57.108743 talri.sapros.com.1653 > ns2.lmi.net.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:44:03.118926 talri.sapros.com.1654 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:44:16.129309 talri.sapros.com.1655 > mxrelay.lanminds.com.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:44:19.404375 wartch.sapros.com.11512 > talri.sapros.com.1074: . 0:1(1) ack 1 win 33304 (DF) 15:44:19.404469 talri.sapros.com.1074 > wartch.sapros.com.11512: . ack 0 win 0 (DF) 15:44:26.016010 255.128.174.zip > 0.0.zip: at-#6 25 15:44:26.765395 0:40:1:80:22:d6 > Broadcast sap e0 ui/C >>> Unknown IPX Data: (79 bytes) [000] FF FF 00 60 00 04 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF ...`.... ........ [010] 04 52 00 00 00 00 00 40 01 80 22 D6 04 52 00 02 .R.....@ .."..R.. [020] 55 AA 5A 4F 54 2D 50 53 38 30 32 32 44 36 00 00 U.ZOT-PS 8022D6.. [030] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ ........ [040] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ ....... len=97 ffff 0060 0004 0000 0000 ffff ffff ffff 0452 0000 0000 0040 0180 22d6 0452 0002 55aa 5a4f 542d 5053 3830 3232 4436 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00 15:44:27.065572 255.128.174.zip > 0.0.zip: at-#6 25 15:44:28.115504 255.128.174.zip > 0.0.zip: at-#6 25 15:44:29.139691 talri.sapros.com.1656 > ns2.lmi.net.domain: 20502+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com. (34) 15:44:42.150151 talri.sapros.com.1657 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 20503+ AAAA? www.vanguard.com.sapros.com. (45) 15:44:42.150567 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1657: 20503 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (93) 15:44:45.645131 wartch.sapros.com.11512 > talri.sapros.com.1074: . 0:1(1) ack 1 win 33304 (DF) 15:44:45.645224 talri.sapros.com.1074 > wartch.sapros.com.11512: . ack 0 win 0 (DF) 15:44:56.015473 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.1640: 20502 ServFail 0/0/0 (34) 15:44:56.015538 talri.sapros.com > wartch.sapros.com: icmp: talri.sapros.com udp port 1640 unreachable --- Log of gethostbyname2('www.google.com', AF_INET6) --- 15:48:35.152884 talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-4 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 33564+ AAAA? www.google.com. (32) 15:48:35.186321 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-4: 33564* 0/1/0 (82) 15:48:35.186712 talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-5 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 33565+ AAAA? www.google.com.sapros.com. (43) 15:48:35.187067 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-5: 33565 NXDomain* 0/1/0 (91) 15:48:35.417699 talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-6 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 36299+ PTR? 1.1.10.10.in-addr.arpa. (40) 15:48:35.418087 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-6: 36299* 1/1/1 PTR[|domain] 15:48:35.418439 talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-7 > wartch.sapros.com.domain: 36300+ PTR? 9.1.10.10.in-addr.arpa. (40) 15:48:35.418803 wartch.sapros.com.domain > talri.sapros.com.netview-aix-7: 36300* 1/1/1 PTR[|domain] 15:48:36.792850 0:40:1:80:22:d6 > Broadcast sap e0 ui/C >>> Unknown IPX Data: (79 bytes) [000] FF FF 00 60 00 04 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF ...`.... ........ [010] 04 52 00 00 00 00 00 40 01 80 22 D6 04 52 00 02 .R.....@ .."..R.. [020] 55 AA 5A 4F 54 2D 50 53 38 30 32 32 44 36 00 00 U.ZOT-PS 8022D6.. [030] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ ........ [040] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ ....... len=97 ffff 0060 0004 0000 0000 ffff ffff ffff 0452 0000 0000 0040 0180 22d6 0452 0002 55aa 5a4f 542d 5053 3830 3232 4436 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 16:41:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1860237B401 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 16:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leto (pcp529856pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.52.131.181]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.6 (built Apr 26 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GVZ00DND0GSZV@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 11 May 2002 19:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 18:36:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brandon D. Valentine" Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) In-reply-to: X-X-Sender: bandix@leto.homeportal.2wire.net To: Conrad Minshall Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Michael Smith Message-id: <20020511183039.C11946-100000@leto.homeportal.2wire.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 10 May 2002, Conrad Minshall wrote: >Reading this thread I see rationale, considerate responses and a general >lack of flamage. Very cool... pun intended, sorry :) Indeed. There are some excellent ideas wrt development methodologies in this paper: http://martinfowler.com/articles/newMethodology.html I've found this paper insightful in the sense that it highlights some weaknesses in my own personal development methodology. `The members of the FreeBSD project who are working to develop the, for lack of a better term, bureaucracy might find this paper illuminating as to alternatives which don't "take the fun out of it" for too many people. Brandon D. Valentine -- "Time to resign from the human race, wipe those tears from your lovely face. Baby, wave to the man in the ol' red caboose before all hell breaks loose." - Kinky Friedman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 16:41:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from net-france.com (net-france.com [212.43.238.188]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9CD6937B400 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 16:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 68343 invoked from network); 11 May 2002 22:49:14 -0000 Received: from reims-1-a7-62-147-66-99.dial.proxad.net (HELO portable) (62.147.66.99) by net-france.com with SMTP; 11 May 2002 22:49:14 -0000 From: "Lunatic" To: Subject: Problems Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 00:49:14 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2776.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have some troubles with my computer (Abit BD7, P4 1.7Ghz, 512MB DDR, Tekram U2W, IBM 18GB 160MB/S SCSI, 3Com 3C905TX 10/100, Cirus Logic SVGA PCI, CD IDE Sony 52X). I have compiled my freebsd kernel in debug mode and i get this message : -------------------------------------------------------------------- s3# gdb -k kernel.0 vmcore.0 GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"...(no debugging symbols found)... IdlePTD 3624960 initial pcb at 2ec980 panicstr: integer divide fault panic messages: --- Fatal trap 18: integer divide fault while in kernel mode instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc0262e32 stack pointer = 0x10:0xc02c28dc frame pointer = 0x10:0x0 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, IOPL = 0 current process = Idle interrupt mask = none trap number = 18 panic: integer divide fault syncing disks... 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 97 xl0: watchdog timeout 97 97 97 97 97 giving up on 97 buffers xl0: watchdog timeout Uptime: 24m1s dumping to dev #da/0x20001, offset 1151552 dump 511 510 509 508 507 506 505 504 503 502 501 500 499 498 497 496 495 494 493 492 491 490 489 488 487 486 485 484 483 482 481 480 479 478 477 476 475 474 473 472 471 470 469 468 467 466 465 464 463 462 461 460 459 458 457 456 455 454 453 452 451 450 449 448 447 446 445 444 443 442 441 440 439 438 437 436 435 434 433 432 431 430 429 428 427 426 425 424 423 422 421 420 419 418 417 416 415 414 413 412 411 410 409 408 407 406 405 404 403 402 401 400 399 398 397 396 395 394 393 392 391 390 389 388 387 386 385 384 383 382 381 380 379 378 377 376 375 374 373 372 371 370 369 368 367 366 365 364 363 362 361 360 359 358 357 356 355 354 353 352 351 350 349 348 347 346 345 344 343 342 341 340 339 338 337 336 335 334 333 332 331 330 329 328 327 326 325 324 323 322 321 320 319 318 317 316 315 314 313 312 311 310 309 308 307 306 305 304 303 302 301 300 299 298 297 296 295 294 293 292 291 290 289 288 287 286 285 284 283 282 281 280 279 278 277 276 275 274 273 272 271 270 269 268 267 266 265 264 263 262 261 260 259 258 257 256 255 254 253 252 251 250 249 248 247 246 245 244 243 242 241 240 239 238 237 236 235 234 233 232 231 230 229 228 227 226 225 224 223 222 221 220 219 218 217 216 215 214 213 212 211 210 209 208 207 206 205 204 203 202 201 200 199 198 197 196 195 194 193 192 191 190 189 188 187 186 185 184 183 182 181 180 179 178 177 176 175 174 173 172 171 170 169 168 167 166 165 164 163 162 161 160 159 158 157 156 155 154 153 152 151 150 149 148 147 146 145 144 143 142 141 140 139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 --- #0 0xc019545a in dumpsys () (kgdb) where #0 0xc019545a in dumpsys () #1 0xc019527b in boot () #2 0xc0195611 in panic () #3 0xc0263d92 in trap_fatal () #4 0xc026377a in trap () (kgdb) -------------------------------------------------------------------- This panic often happened, it happens when i download or when i do nothing on the computer.... please help me. Tks a lot. Rmi. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 17:12:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B3037B404 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 17:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 9A3EDAE255; Sat, 11 May 2002 17:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:12:44 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Ed Hall Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory and Reality Message-ID: <20020512001244.GN90188@elvis.mu.org> References: <200205112015.g4BKFt390577@screech.weirdnoise.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200205112015.g4BKFt390577@screech.weirdnoise.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Ed Hall [020511 13:13] wrote: > At Yahoo! we use a lot of shared memory, both in the form of .so's and > for IPC. It would be very useful to be able to accurately measure the > amount of shared and private memory associated with a process, the > number of references to a given shared memory object, resident vs. non- > resident pages, and so forth. > > Determining just what is shared and by how many is the hardest part. > When I asked Peter Wemm about sussing out this sort of info from > proc/*/map, he made some comments about the difficulty of knowing what > actually was shared and what wasn't, how the refcounts aren't exactly > what one might think they are, and so forth. The same sort of ambiguity > seemed to exist regarding just what is resident (with the term defined > as "in RAM with no need to retrieve from secondary storage") and what > isn't. > > Are things really this bad? Is there a tool out there that can make > sense of FreeBSD's memory state with more accuracy and detail than > "ps" or "top"? This is a serious issue. Whether this is exclusively > a FreeBSD problem or not, developers tend to see it that way. You'd have to write it yourself, I'm not sure exactly what you sort of information you're trying to pull, however the easiest way to do this would be to look at p->p_vmspace->vm_map->{list of vm_map_entries} you can then walk this list looking at the object referenced by the map, I think most of the information "shared"/"nonshared" etc can be pulled from the vm_map_entry. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 11 20:21:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.gnf.org (ns2.gnf.org [63.196.132.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D37837B403 for ; Sat, 11 May 2002 20:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns2.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4C3BaO25344; Sat, 11 May 2002 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@gnf.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id B713211E511; Sat, 11 May 2002 20:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F8C11A572; Sat, 11 May 2002 20:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 20:21:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nextboot loader diff In-Reply-To: <3CDCCE83.66AEF4BB@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 11 May 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > This is not something that is meant for you to massage which root > > partition you are going to boot up off of. > > I don't understand what it does, then. The original Whistle code > was intended to attempt to boot 3 times from one partition, and > then 3 times from another. I was thinking different kernel/kernel flags not different root partitions. You could probably work something up to make it do different root partitions, but this was sufficient for my needs. [snip] > I don't understand the "YES"/"NO" thing, then. There is one byte > difference in the file length, which I don't think can be properly > accounted, if you do the "YES"/"NO" thing. Well, it's actually "YES"/"NO" but the loader is smart enough to ignore spaces. [snip] > The code you are talking about seems limited to replacing only the > kernel. Frankly, that's recoverable via the serial console, if > you put the "-p" in the right file in /. Exactly. That was all this was meant to do. Look at it as a first implementation. If you would like to take the patch I submitted and do some more work to have the same functionality as InterJet's code, be my guest. There would be alot of work, the first piece being an unbufferred string searching function in Forth. > This isn't really sufficient for any embedded system that needs to This wasn't for embedded systems, this was for developer convenience. > I'm not trying to dump on your code; I'm just saying that it's > not solving the problem that the original code was added to be > able to solve, and that the original nextboot itself was intended > to resolve. Yup, I know that. Let's lay this discussion to rest and see what we need to do to get the code committed and used. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message