From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 22 14: 8:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mega.cancom.ca (mega.cancom.ca [216.218.36.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9800737B9F8 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ssxntmsg1.cancom.ca (ssxntmsg1 [172.31.20.8]) by mega.cancom.ca (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g3MEC0n14803 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:12:02 -0400 Received: by ssxntmsg1.cancom.ca with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <2XQ8BL60>; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:11:55 -0400 Message-ID: From: Thomas.Dean@starchoice.com To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: newsgroup subscription Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:11:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please put me on your mailing list for material in small versions of BSD like PicoBSD. Thomas Dean tdean@cancom.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 22 14:41:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from wotsit.thingy.com (wotsit.thingy.com [212.21.100.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0618837BE2E for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 68101 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2002 21:38:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jubjub) (212.19.79.186) by wotsit.thingy.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2002 21:38:11 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c1ea46$013f9900$fa37a8c0@jubjub> From: "Howard Jones" To: Subject: Flash Support in older mobos? Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:38:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, After a few weekends fiddling, I have a small FreeBSD config I am happy with to use as a firewall at home (and a couple of others for an XTerminal and a full-featured router for research at work). I have a couple of flash devices to use as the boot devices - a 16Mb DiskOnModule, and an old 16Mb CF card with an IDE adapter. These work fine in my test machine, but not in my target PC - an old Acer P75 system. The test machine is a new SiS630 chipset mobo, that will be my XTerminal, but what is support like in older systems for DoM or CFs? Was I just unlucky? Best Regards, Howard Jones To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 22 15:22:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53AC37C5B0 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ubasics.com (bgp01139351bgs.ypwest01.mi.comcast.net [68.42.148.204]) by mtaout45-01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.3 (built Apr 8 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GUZ00IDKPPOM7@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net> for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:13:42 -0400 From: "M. Adam Davis" Subject: Re: Flash Support in older mobos? To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Message-id: <3CC48B16.6050203@ubasics.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020311 References: <003201c1ea46$013f9900$fa37a8c0@jubjub> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've not dealt with the DOM, but the CF card with a proper adaptor looks exactly like an IDE drive - if the computer accepts IDE drives then it will work fine. The two problems I've run into, though: 1. I've seen older systems (Pre MMX pentiums and 486s) whose bios autodetects IDE drives that couldn't detect my CF card automatically. I put it in another system to get the parameters, entered them manually in the target system and it works fine after that. (FWIW, the 8MB cards I'm using get set up as NORMAL or CHS (Not LBA or LARGE), and 248 CYL, 2 HD, 65545 PRECOMP, 247 LAND, 32 SECT.) 2. The particular adaptors I have are *very* easy to plug in incorrectly (off by two pins). They go directly on the motherboard, and I've had this problem mostly with onboard IDE connectors that have a shroud - I line them up with one end of the shroud. Didn't damage the MB or the CF, but added an annoying 1/2 hour of troubleshooting today (first time I've had a problem). Good luck! -Adam Howard Jones wrote: > Hi, > After a few weekends fiddling, I have a small FreeBSD config I am happy with > to use as a firewall at home (and a couple of others for an XTerminal and a > full-featured router for research at work). I have a couple of flash devices > to use as the boot devices - a 16Mb DiskOnModule, and an old 16Mb CF card > with an IDE adapter. These work fine in my test machine, but not in my > target PC - an old Acer P75 system. The test machine is a new SiS630 chipset > mobo, that will be my XTerminal, but what is support like in older systems > for DoM or CFs? Was I just unlucky? > > Best Regards, > > Howard Jones > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 23 14:56:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from wotsit.thingy.com (wotsit.thingy.com [212.21.100.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DCD9B37B417 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 69517 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2002 21:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jubjub) (212.19.79.186) by wotsit.thingy.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2002 21:56:31 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c1eb11$bb8f8100$fa37a8c0@jubjub> From: "Howard Jones" To: References: <003201c1ea46$013f9900$fa37a8c0@jubjub> <3CC48B16.6050203@ubasics.com> <004901c1ea52$6692d040$fa37a8c0@jubjub> <3CC4BD1C.4020005@ubasics.com> Subject: Re: Flash Support in older mobos? Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:56:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK - a bit more experimentation this evening gets me to the final bootloader level (after the kernel has loaded, where it says 'Press Enter to Boot Immediately or wait 10 Seconds'). When you press enter the little spinning \|-/ thing stops dead. I think this is a kernel issue, but the kernel isn't *that* non-standard - all I stripped out was the SCSI controller support, not any of the older processor stuff (which I've seen cause trouble before). The bootloader in general works with flash OK. I know that, because I use the same system image, with a few extras to run a silent X system on my desk (Via C3, no fan, very quiet MicroATX PSU, fully integrated motherboard), using a 32Mb DoM. That board will also happily boot the CF. Time for some better experimenting tomorrow, I suppose. I'll try booting the same kernel from a real hard disk and see what happens. Howie ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Adam Davis" To: "Howard Jones" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:47 AM Subject: Re: Flash Support in older mobos? > The only problem I had along those lines is that I couldn't put a > bootloader on the cf card with a cf card reader - I had to use the IDE > adaptor. > > Chances are that doesn't apply to you, though. I suspect a problem with > the bootloader - does it like flash drives? > > -Adam > > Howard Jones wrote: > > Hmmm. What I am seeing is that the BIOS detects the drive, then says No > > Operating System, even though the bootloader and so on is all OK, and will > > work fine in another system. I'll try playing with manual drive params > > though. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Howie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 23 19:20:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35E737B417 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3O2K7H80640; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3O2K6b30096; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020423.202002.74596788.imp@village.org> To: howie@thingy.com Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Flash Support in older mobos? From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <003201c1ea46$013f9900$fa37a8c0@jubjub> References: <003201c1ea46$013f9900$fa37a8c0@jubjub> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <003201c1ea46$013f9900$fa37a8c0@jubjub> "Howard Jones" writes: : Hi, : After a few weekends fiddling, I have a small FreeBSD config I am happy with : to use as a firewall at home (and a couple of others for an XTerminal and a : full-featured router for research at work). I have a couple of flash devices : to use as the boot devices - a 16Mb DiskOnModule, and an old 16Mb CF card : with an IDE adapter. These work fine in my test machine, but not in my : target PC - an old Acer P75 system. The test machine is a new SiS630 chipset : mobo, that will be my XTerminal, but what is support like in older systems : for DoM or CFs? Was I just unlucky? Sometimes with older machines you can get it working by specifically setting the geometry in the BIOS. Sometimes, having a slave device makes the IDE adapters work better too, I don't know why. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 25 3:28:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mls.telia.net (mls.telia.net [194.237.170.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D34237B422 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.telia.net (mailbox.telia.net [194.237.170.234]) by mls.telia.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3PAQvi45577 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:26:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from qwerty.telia.net (pc5241034.far.telia.se [131.115.241.34]) by mailbox.telia.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10401 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:28:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020425081408.02de7ca0@mailbox.telia.net> X-Sender: jorgen@mailbox.telia.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:27:33 +0200 To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen?= I Larsson Subject: nics (ed and ep) to work on picodsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I have searched the mailing lists and the web to find the answer on this.=20 If anyone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it very= =20 much. I am trying to put PICOBSD (theWall) on an Thinkpad 770. I have included the pccard in the kernel: device card device pcic0 at isa? irq0 port 0x3e0 I have two nics: 3Com 3C589C and IBM Ethernet II device ed1 at isa? port 0x240 irq 7 iomem 0xd4000 device ep0 at isa? port 0x260 irq 9 The both work like charm with 4.5-STABLE. 3C589C shows up on PICOBSD but complains about eeprom does not come ready and the IBM Ethernet II doesn't show at all. Any suggestions where I might find some input? /jorgen J=F6rgen I Larsson Product Manager Internet VPN Internationell Skanova mailto:jorgen@skanova.net Mobile: +46 705 646 858 Fax: +46 706 126 858 Adress: Arenav=E4gen 57 pl 7 Stockholm Globen Postal adress: PO Box 10707, S-121 29 Stockholm, Sweden -------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 25 9:41:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.112.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D22737B420 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [212.139.129.126] (helo=bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 170mJ4-00086p-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:41:18 +0100 Received: from brian by bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com with local (Exim 3.22 #1) id 170mJQ-0000F2-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:41:40 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:41:39 +0100 From: Brian Candler To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: NFS root and unnecessary NFS operations Message-ID: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a diskless/NFS question - I hope this is the most appropriate place to post it. When setting up some diskless servers in the past, just using the standard rc.diskless1/2 way (NFS root, ramdisk on /tmp and /var), I found that the load generated on the NFS server was much higher than I expected. I built some mailservers with: - read-only NFS root - local disk for /var - a read-write NFS directory for maildrops I found that the number of NFS operations/second generated was very high, but reduced greatly if the root was on local disk. As a result, I was forced to put system disks back into the machines. The measurement of ops/second was crude: the front-panel LCD display on a Network Appliance fileserver, and nfsstat on the machines themselves. Anyway, I've now decided to look into this a bit further. Here are some tests on a diskless machine running FreeBSD 4.1.1 (I know it's ancient :-) which has booted from a separate DHCP/TFTP server. It has its root partition on the Netapp, using NFSv3 because that's the only way I could get the mode bits to be seen properly, mounted read-only. (1) The first test invokes some read-only accesses to the Netapp (/usr/bin/touch and /bin/rm, I would have thought they were cached) and some read-write accesses to a ramdisk. On console 1: # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { system("touch /var/tmp/xxx"); system("rm /var/tmp/xxx");}' On console 2: # nfsstat -c -W 1 GtAttr Lookup Rdlink Read Write Rename Access Rddir Attr Lkup BioR BioW Accs BioD 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - - - - - 7363 5323 2 187 0 0 6065 0 90% 86% 100% - 87% - 11496 8336 0 287 0 0 9487 0 89% 86% 100% - 87% - 11471 8318 0 287 0 0 9462 0 90% 86% 100% - 87% - 9756 7069 0 244 0 0 8048 0 89% 86% 100% - 87% - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - - - - - Ouch. That's a lot of NFS operations. Now, you would hope there is some caching going on, but if I look at 'tcpdump udp port 2049' on the interface which connects to the Netapp I can see a lot of physical traffic is being generated: # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null tcpdump: listening on fxp0 ^C 16014 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel (that's for the 1000 iterations of that Perl script). (2) Now, if I rewrite the Perl script to remove the forks and execs and accesses to /bin and /usr/bin, the problem goes away: # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { open F,">/var/tmp/xxx"; print F "x"; close F; unlink "/var/tmp/xxx";}' # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null tcpdump: listening on fxp0 ^C 14 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel That's great, but it's not a realistic simulation of a server machine, where (for example) sendmail or exim is constantly forking and execing. (3) Another test, just open /bin/rm for read: # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { open F,"; close F;}' # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null tcpdump: listening on fxp0 ^C 2014 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel That's part-way between. It looks like I am getting one packet exchange each time the file is opened: 17:25:53.015554 192.168.0.91.649103617 > 192.168.0.1.2049: 108 access [|nfs] 17:25:53.015698 192.168.0.1.2049 > 192.168.0.91.649103617: reply ok 120 access c xxxxxxxx I tried "mount -u -o ro,noatime /" but that didn't make any difference. So, I'm interested to know if anyone can explain why so many NFS operations are being generated, and whether there's a workaround. I can see two possible solutions: - Run with root as a ramdisk, and mount /usr on the Netapp. This should at least ensure that an access to /var/xxx (where /var is a local disk) cannot generate any NFS traffic. I think that {bin,etc,modules,sbin,stand} will fit into about 24MB. But I guess it will still generate NFS traffic when I access /usr/lib/sendmail or whatever, so I would have to try and put all my applications in ramdisk too. - Turn on some optimisation that I am missing, or disable some checking that the kernel is doing, when repeatedly opening the same file (such as /bin/rm) Any observations gratefully received. I guess I'll have to set up a FreeBSD-4.5 image to boot from too... Cheers, Brian Candler. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 25 9:49:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.icir.org (iguana.icir.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10C737B416 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g3PGnif34773; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:49:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:49:44 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Brian Candler Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS root and unnecessary NFS operations Message-ID: <20020425094944.A34575@iguana.icir.org> References: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Off the top of my head, i think you might see accesses to /etc/malloc.conf (on stock 'diskless' FreeBSD installations, at least recently, /etc goes onto a RAMdisk so you don't see these accesses). using tcpdump -v -s 256 might give you a better idea on what accesses are being attempted. cheers luigi On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 05:41:39PM +0100, Brian Candler wrote: > This is a diskless/NFS question - I hope this is the most appropriate place > to post it. > > When setting up some diskless servers in the past, just using the standard > rc.diskless1/2 way (NFS root, ramdisk on /tmp and /var), I found that the > load generated on the NFS server was much higher than I expected. > > I built some mailservers with: > - read-only NFS root > - local disk for /var > - a read-write NFS directory for maildrops > > I found that the number of NFS operations/second generated was very high, > but reduced greatly if the root was on local disk. As a result, I was forced > to put system disks back into the machines. The measurement of ops/second > was crude: the front-panel LCD display on a Network Appliance fileserver, > and nfsstat on the machines themselves. > > Anyway, I've now decided to look into this a bit further. Here are some > tests on a diskless machine running FreeBSD 4.1.1 (I know it's ancient :-) > which has booted from a separate DHCP/TFTP server. It has its root partition > on the Netapp, using NFSv3 because that's the only way I could get the mode > bits to be seen properly, mounted read-only. > > (1) > > The first test invokes some read-only accesses to the Netapp (/usr/bin/touch > and /bin/rm, I would have thought they were cached) and some read-write > accesses to a ramdisk. > > On console 1: > > # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { system("touch /var/tmp/xxx"); system("rm /var/tmp/xxx");}' > > On console 2: > > # nfsstat -c -W 1 > GtAttr Lookup Rdlink Read Write Rename Access Rddir Attr Lkup BioR BioW Accs BioD > 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - - - - - > 7363 5323 2 187 0 0 6065 0 90% 86% 100% - 87% - > 11496 8336 0 287 0 0 9487 0 89% 86% 100% - 87% - > 11471 8318 0 287 0 0 9462 0 90% 86% 100% - 87% - > 9756 7069 0 244 0 0 8048 0 89% 86% 100% - 87% - > 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - - - - - > > Ouch. That's a lot of NFS operations. Now, you would hope there is some > caching going on, but if I look at 'tcpdump udp port 2049' on the interface > which connects to the Netapp I can see a lot of physical traffic is being > generated: > > # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null > tcpdump: listening on fxp0 > ^C > 16014 packets received by filter > 0 packets dropped by kernel > > (that's for the 1000 iterations of that Perl script). > > (2) Now, if I rewrite the Perl script to remove the forks and execs and > accesses to /bin and /usr/bin, the problem goes away: > > # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { open F,">/var/tmp/xxx"; print F "x"; close F; unlink "/var/tmp/xxx";}' > > # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null > tcpdump: listening on fxp0 > ^C > 14 packets received by filter > 0 packets dropped by kernel > > That's great, but it's not a realistic simulation of a server machine, > where (for example) sendmail or exim is constantly forking and execing. > > (3) Another test, just open /bin/rm for read: > > # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { open F,"; close F;}' > > # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null > tcpdump: listening on fxp0 > ^C > 2014 packets received by filter > 0 packets dropped by kernel > > That's part-way between. It looks like I am getting one packet exchange each > time the file is opened: > > 17:25:53.015554 192.168.0.91.649103617 > 192.168.0.1.2049: 108 access [|nfs] > 17:25:53.015698 192.168.0.1.2049 > 192.168.0.91.649103617: reply ok 120 access c xxxxxxxx > > I tried "mount -u -o ro,noatime /" but that didn't make any difference. > > So, I'm interested to know if anyone can explain why so many NFS operations > are being generated, and whether there's a workaround. I can see two > possible solutions: > > - Run with root as a ramdisk, and mount /usr on the Netapp. This should > at least ensure that an access to /var/xxx (where /var is a local disk) > cannot generate any NFS traffic. > I think that {bin,etc,modules,sbin,stand} will fit into about 24MB. > But I guess it will still generate NFS traffic when I access > /usr/lib/sendmail or whatever, so I would have to try and put all > my applications in ramdisk too. > > - Turn on some optimisation that I am missing, or disable some checking > that the kernel is doing, when repeatedly opening the same file > (such as /bin/rm) > > Any observations gratefully received. I guess I'll have to set up a > FreeBSD-4.5 image to boot from too... > > Cheers, > > Brian Candler. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 25 10: 0:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.112.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D38937B42C for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [212.139.129.126] (helo=bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 170mao-000DHW-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:59:38 +0100 Received: from brian by bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com with local (Exim 3.22 #1) id 170mbA-0000H8-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:00:00 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:00:00 +0100 From: Brian Candler To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS root and unnecessary NFS operations Message-ID: <20020425180000.A1031@linnet.org> References: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org> <20020425094944.A34575@iguana.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020425094944.A34575@iguana.icir.org>; from rizzo@icir.org on Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 09:49:44AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 09:49:44AM -0700, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Off the top of my head, i think you might see accesses to /etc/malloc.conf > (on stock 'diskless' FreeBSD installations, at least recently, > /etc goes onto a RAMdisk so you don't see these accesses). My system has /etc in RAMdisk too. Actually it's a ramdisk on /conf/etc which is null-mounted back onto /etc, although I notice that newer distributions eliminate this by just putting a ramdisk on /etc. > using tcpdump -v -s 256 might give you a better idea on what > accesses are being attempted. Good idea, although it doesn't show much more. Running test (3) again gives # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 -s 1500 -v udp port 2049 ... 17:55:00.686348 192.168.0.91.649129623 > 192.168.0.1.2049: 104 access fh Unknown/1 003f (ttl 64, id 10087) 17:55:00.686515 192.168.0.1.2049 > 192.168.0.91.649129623: reply ok 120 access attr: REG 444 ids 0/0 sz 35124 c 0001 (ttl 64, id 41864) ... So maybe it's just checking permissions each time the file is opened? But there is supposed to be an access cache. sysctl reports: vfs.nfs.access_cache_timeout: 60 Cheers, Brian. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 26 9: 2:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.112.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D877B37B400 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [212.139.129.126] (helo=bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17185Y-000L49-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:56:48 +0100 Received: from brian by bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com with local (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1718Au-0000eY-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:02:20 +0100 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:02:20 +0100 From: Brian Candler To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS root and unnecessary NFS operations Message-ID: <20020426170220.A2475@linnet.org> References: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org>; from B.Candler@pobox.com on Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 05:41:39PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 05:41:39PM +0100, Brian Candler wrote: > (3) Another test, just open /bin/rm for read: > > # perl -e 'for ($i=0;$i<1000;$i++) { open F,"; close F;}' > > # tcpdump -n -i fxp0 udp port 2049 >/dev/null > tcpdump: listening on fxp0 > ^C > 2014 packets received by filter > 0 packets dropped by kernel > > That's part-way between. It looks like I am getting one packet exchange each > time the file is opened: > > 17:25:53.015554 192.168.0.91.649103617 > 192.168.0.1.2049: 108 access [|nfs] > 17:25:53.015698 192.168.0.1.2049 > 192.168.0.91.649103617: reply ok 120 access c xxxxxxxx FYI, I've just brought everything up to FreeBSD-4.5-STABLE-20020426-JPSNAP and it's exactly the same. Regards, Brian. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 26 9:58:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.worldonline.com [212.74.112.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2613D37B404 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [212.139.129.126] (helo=bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17192H-000FK9-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:57:29 +0100 Received: from brian by bloodhound.uk.worldonline.com with local (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17192n-0000ik-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:58:01 +0100 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:58:01 +0100 From: Brian Candler To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS root and unnecessary NFS operations Message-ID: <20020426175801.A2748@linnet.org> References: <20020425174139.A871@linnet.org> <20020426170220.A2475@linnet.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020426170220.A2475@linnet.org>; from B.Candler@pobox.com on Fri, Apr 26, 2002 at 05:02:20PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have found the root cause of this. The NFS attribute cache is cleared every time a file is opened (in nfs_open, right at the end). Getting rid of this drastically reduces the number of NFS ops per second in this test. I will take this up on freebsd-fs and/or freebsd-net... Cheers, Brian. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 26 12: 1:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from ip.eth.net (punsmtp.ip.eth.net [202.9.128.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A85F37B41F for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (apparently) from localhost.localdomain ([202.9.130.104]) by ip.eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.467.46); Sat, 27 Apr 2002 00:31:12 +0530 Received: from ieee.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3QF4H100847 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:34:17 +0530 (IST) (envelope-from shantanoo@ieee.org) Message-ID: <3CC96C70.21314B0B@ieee.org> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:34:16 +0530 From: Shantanu Mahajan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD in Embedded Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I am new user to FreeBSD. I would like to know from where do I get the FreeBSD version for Embedded developmet. The platform is Motorola's ColdFire Processor. Currently we are considering uCLinux (www.uCLinux.org) for it. But after using FreeBSD for desktop, I think that FreeBSD can be nice choice. Is it feasible to use FreeBSD? Regards, ... .... .- -. - .- -. ..- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 26 12:13:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from jupiter.linuxengine.net (jupiter.linuxengine.net [209.61.188.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615F437B42C for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiterweb.commercevault.com (jupiterweb.commercevault.com [209.61.179.16] (may be forged)) by jupiter.linuxengine.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g3QJDPg21509; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:13:25 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:13:25 -0500 (CDT) From: John Utz X-X-Sender: john@jupiter.linuxengine.net To: Shantanu Mahajan Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in Embedded In-Reply-To: <3CC96C70.21314B0B@ieee.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am sorry to say that i am utterly unaware of any moto support in FreeBSD suggest you look at NetBSD, which has extensice motorola support On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, Shantanu Mahajan wrote: > Hi! > I am new user to FreeBSD. I would like to know from where do I get the > FreeBSD version for Embedded developmet. The platform is Motorola's > ColdFire Processor. Currently we are considering uCLinux > (www.uCLinux.org) for it. But after using FreeBSD for desktop, I think > that FreeBSD can be nice choice. Is it feasible to use FreeBSD? > > Regards, > ... .... .- -. - .- -. ..- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > -- John L. Utz III john@utzweb.net Idiocy is the Impulse Function in the Convolution of Life To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message