From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Feb 17 6:20:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8893E37B41E for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from user-1120bmq.dsl.mindspring.com ([66.32.46.218] helo=europa2) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16cSAg-0002U1-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:20:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020217091837.00da57b8@imatowns.com> X-Sender: ggombert@imatowns.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:18:37 -0500 To: LxUser , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org From: Glenn Gombert Subject: Re: KDE Freezes In-Reply-To: <3C6EFBE5.B4184094@adelphia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org KDE seems to be 'crashing' for me in the last several weeks when used with the latest version of XFree86_4.1 that is now in the ports collection. I have gone back to using a slightly older version of XFree86_4.1 (from late last Fall) which has fixed the problem...it has something to do with the latest source of XFree86 .... At 07:40 PM 2/16/2002 -0500, LxUser wrote: >Hello, > I have version 4.2 w/10 CD's. Every time I compile a Duel >processor Kernel KDE quits working. If I open a file document and work >in it, then close it, all the icons in the background get removed, or >parts are removed. The system freezes and I can't open any other >applications or documents. My only way out is (ctrl+alt+backspace), >which puts me back at the console. > I'm running a Tyan Thunderbolt motherboard, and two Intel 400 Pentium >II's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I bought this at CompUSA >in Sept. 2001 in New Mexico while out of town working. Just lately did >I have a chance to install it. I also run BeOS 4.5, SuSE 7.0, ManDrake >8.0, Win98. I use the BeOS's bootman as the boot loader! Great boot >loader! > I want to tell you people what a "Great FTP" service you have! No one >can touch you guys, it's so easy, and user friendly! Thanks again. > >Regards, Don > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message > Glenn Gombert ggombert@imatowns.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Feb 17 7:13:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.whitebarn.com (Spin.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19FE37B404 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 07:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from BGPBook.Com (Relent.Bob.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.50]) by smtp.whitebarn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA66894; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:13:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from Bob@BGPBook.Com) Message-ID: <3C6FC888.9040003@BGPBook.Com> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:13:12 -0600 From: Bob Van Valzah User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-SMP@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Lock order reversal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry if this isn't the right place to report this. Maybe I should sendpr this kind of thing? Sorry, I don't know the protocol. I shutdown my laptop (running -CURRENT as of Tuesday afternoon) and saw this: syncing disks.. 6 5 4 3 2 2 1 1 done lock order reversal 1st 0xc03a9d40 allproc @ /usr/src/sys/kernvfs_syscalls.c:452 2nd 0xc2880234 filedesc structure @ /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 Uptime: 1d14h10m48s /dev/vmmon: Module vmmon: unloaded The operating system has halted. Please press any key to reboot. Bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Feb 17 7:16:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.whitebarn.com (Spin.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4DB37B404 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 07:16:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from BGPBook.Com (Relent.Bob.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.50]) by smtp.whitebarn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA66903; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:16:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from Bob@BGPBook.Com) Message-ID: <3C6FC943.8070807@BGPBook.Com> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:16:19 -0600 From: Bob Van Valzah User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-SMP Subject: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just got back from BSDCon where I heard several folks working on SMPng asking for volunteers. My "day job" prevents me doing things like writing code or doing serious debugging, but I think I might still be able to help the SMPng cause. (I actually did one of the early MP Unix implementations on Gould hardware back in 1983, but I haven't kept current.) So I guess you could say that I understand the problem space and I'm excited about what you're trying to do for 5.0, but I'm rusty. I haven't written a line of kernel code in over 10 years, so I'm thinking I might be most helpful on testing, benchmarking, or profiling work. I'm able to use ddb to help you figure out what's going on, but I probably can't help you figure out how to fix it. I'm not likely to have big chunks of time to work on SMPng, but I can probably muster a steady stream of small blocks of time. I have an old dual PII-233 box sitting around and I'd be glad to put it to work if that'd help in some way. (My experience in the past has been that older, slower machines sometimes shake out latent bugs that you don't hit on modern screamers.) I could probably do something like regular builds from -CURRENT and run various benchmarks or torture tests. I'd be happy to run regular benchmarks against 3.x, 4.x, other BSDs, Linux or whatever. Also, I think I could do a decent job of SMP "data mining" if that'd help. For example, I might be able to cobble together some tools to analyze lock counters or other statistics. I see "profiling is broken" on the known issues list. I might be able to tackle that, but don't want to bite off more that I can chew--esp. not for my first attempt. How badly broken is it? So I'm leaving myself open for suggestions here. Please let me know what'd be most helpful. I'll try to pitch in where I can. Thanks, Bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sun Feb 17 15:11:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from brea.mc.mpls.visi.com (brea.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D42837B400 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:11:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from pred1.NTRAS.COM (predator.dsl.visi.com [208.42.95.28]) by brea.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8982DE58E for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:11:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:11:39 -0600 Message-ID: <2BB9CA48DC1BA5499A730739950045C00151B7@pred1.NTRAS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Index: AcG4CHQ5/MGCi5ecR3+f6+YAe0sbXQ== From: "Administrator" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 content-class: urn:content-classes:message To: Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 11:36:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from turbo.dreamtime.net (dreamtime.net [209.61.206.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B3F37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from stephenyrpi344 (lsanca1-ar8-120-154.lsanca1.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.120.154]) by turbo.dreamtime.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1JJaXV36994 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:36:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from clients@dreamtime.net) From: "Dreamtime.net Inc." To: Subject: Systat and Ram Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:37:00 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020207231134.05284c60@indigo.gradwell.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is it possible to make a decision on buying more RAM based on "systat" monitoring? Thanks. Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 12:46:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from absinthe.carnagecopia.com (absinthe.carnagecopia.com [216.187.87.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D0E637B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 64410 invoked by uid 85); 19 Feb 2002 20:46:45 -0000 Received: from random@carnagecopia.com by absinthe.carnagecopia.com with qmail-scanner-1.03 (uvscan: v4.0.50/v4186. . Clean. Processed in 0.139786 secs); 19 Feb 2002 20:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO workstation-61) (204.244.192.2) by absinthe.carnagecopia.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 20:46:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:46:20 -0800 From: Vincent Janelle To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram Message-Id: <20020219124620.30236a53.random@carnagecopia.com> In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020207231134.05284c60@indigo.gradwell.net> Organization: Goblin Studios X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You should always have as much ram as you can afford. Whatever is unused will be used as filesystem cache, network buffers, etc. On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:37:00 -0800 "Dreamtime.net Inc." wrote: > Is it possible to make a decision on buying more RAM based on "systat" > monitoring? > > Thanks. > > Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 12:49:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from turbo.dreamtime.net (dreamtime.net [209.61.206.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10C937B417 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from stephenyrpi344 (lsanca1-ar8-120-154.lsanca1.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.120.154]) by turbo.dreamtime.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1JKmXV46455; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:48:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from clients@dreamtime.net) From: "Dreamtime.net Inc." To: "Vincent Janelle" Cc: Subject: RE: Systat and Ram Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:49:00 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020219124620.30236a53.random@carnagecopia.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What if my machine only has capacity for 4 gigs when I need 7,2 gigs? I'm stuck. Sincerely, Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 12:54:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from blue.gradwell.net (blue.gradwell.net [195.149.39.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C6DA037B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22884 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2002 20:54:07 -0000 Received: from pop3.gradwell.net (HELO vaio.gradwell.com) (195.149.39.7) by pop3.gradwell.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 20:54:07 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020219205135.046a75c8@localhost> X-Sender: postmaster%pop3.peterg.org.uk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:52:23 +0000 To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." , "Vincent Janelle" From: Peter Gradwell Subject: RE: Systat and Ram Cc: In-Reply-To: References: <20020219124620.30236a53.random@carnagecopia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:49 19/02/2002 -0800, Dreamtime.net Inc. wrote: >What if my machine only has capacity for 4 gigs when I need 7,2 gigs? I'm >stuck. I believe you are addressing the wrong problem :) Perhaps you need to redesign your application / move to a cluster / all of the above ? peter -- peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/ engineering & hosting services for email, web and usenet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 13:10:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from absinthe.carnagecopia.com (absinthe.carnagecopia.com [216.187.87.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D8AD237B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 65865 invoked by uid 85); 19 Feb 2002 21:10:16 -0000 Received: from random@carnagecopia.com by absinthe.carnagecopia.com with qmail-scanner-1.03 (uvscan: v4.0.50/v4186. . Clean. Processed in 0.137649 secs); 19 Feb 2002 21:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO workstation-61) (204.244.192.2) by absinthe.carnagecopia.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2002 21:10:16 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:09:51 -0800 From: Vincent Janelle To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram Message-Id: <20020219130951.6ed6eb34.random@carnagecopia.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20020219124620.30236a53.random@carnagecopia.com> Organization: Goblin Studios X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Then you need something other than x86, because intel platforms only support 4GB (unless you're using PSE, but each process is still only limited to 4GB). If you need more than this you need to research other platforms such as alpha, sparc, sgi mips, itanium, etc which provide a 64bit address space and systems with support for greater than 4GB. On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:49:00 -0800 "Dreamtime.net Inc." wrote: > What if my machine only has capacity for 4 gigs when I need 7,2 gigs? I'm > stuck. > > Sincerely, > > Stephen > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 16:32:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from cn-sfo1-g7-2.cnet.com (nat-236-141.cnet.com [64.124.236.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F4137B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from holsman.net (96.90.16.10.nat.cnet.com [10.16.90.96]) by cn-sfo1-g7-2.cnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26818 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:31:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C72EE7C.7070305@holsman.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:31:56 -0800 From: Ian Holsman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8+) Gecko/20020212 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Tue Feb 19 20: 1:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from web13401.mail.yahoo.com (web13401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A8CED37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:01:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020220040148.63112.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.225.63.249] by web13401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:01:48 PST Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:01:48 -0800 (PST) From: buddy lo To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 0:37:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D431937B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:37:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0143.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.143] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dSFO-0004ep-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:37:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3C736028.FBD0F093@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:36:56 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vincent Janelle Cc: "Dreamtime.net Inc." , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram References: <20020219124620.30236a53.random@carnagecopia.com> <20020219130951.6ed6eb34.random@carnagecopia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vincent Janelle wrote: > Then you need something other than x86, because intel platforms > only support 4GB (unless you're using PSE, but each process is > still only limited to 4GB). > > If you need more than this you need to research other platforms > such as alpha, sparc, sgi mips, itanium, etc which provide a > 64bit address space and systems with support for greater than 4GB. You mean PAE (Page Address Extension), not PSE (Page Size Extension). The PSE is use to get 4M and other page sizes between 4M and 4K. Really, he ought to be reconsidering why he believes his application needs more than 4G of physical RAM, and whether he can achieve the same effect with a cluster. If that's impossible, then and only then should he look at another architecture, IMO. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 1:46:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from turbo.dreamtime.net (dreamtime.net [209.61.206.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A24B37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:46:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from stephenyrpi344 (lsanca1-ar8-120-154.lsanca1.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.120.154]) by turbo.dreamtime.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1K9kxP93641; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 04:47:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from clients@dreamtime.net) From: "Dreamtime.net Inc." To: "Terry Lambert" , "Vincent Janelle" Cc: Subject: RE: Systat and Ram Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:46:43 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3C736028.FBD0F093@mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually, we need to run anywhere from 30 to 300 httpd processes, 20-25 megs each. We want to know how can we decide if we need more RAM based on 'systat' output. Sincerely, Stephen > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Lambert [mailto:tlambert2@mindspring.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:37 AM > To: Vincent Janelle > Cc: Dreamtime.net Inc.; freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Systat and Ram > > > Vincent Janelle wrote: > > Then you need something other than x86, because intel platforms > > only support 4GB (unless you're using PSE, but each process is > > still only limited to 4GB). > > > > If you need more than this you need to research other platforms > > such as alpha, sparc, sgi mips, itanium, etc which provide a > > 64bit address space and systems with support for greater than 4GB. > > You mean PAE (Page Address Extension), not PSE (Page Size > Extension). The PSE is use to get 4M and other page sizes > between 4M and 4K. > > Really, he ought to be reconsidering why he believes his > application needs more than 4G of physical RAM, and whether > he can achieve the same effect with a cluster. If that's > impossible, then and only then should he look at another > architecture, IMO. > > -- Terry > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 1:55:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp45-21.dis.org [216.240.45.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D45237B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1K9tN801098; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:55:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200202200955.g1K9tN801098@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: "Terry Lambert" , "Vincent Janelle" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:46:43 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:55:23 -0800 From: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Actually, we need to run anywhere from 30 to 300 httpd processes, 20-25 megs > each. We want to know how can we decide if we need more RAM based on > 'systat' output. A calculator will tell you that you can't run 300 processes at 20MB each on a machine limited to 4GB. Watch the output of 'vmstat -s' and see whether there is activity on the swap pager (swapping means you don't have enough RAM). You can see the per-interval increments to the in/out values in the top right of the 'systat -vm' display. -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 2:33:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D47637B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0143.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.143] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dU3s-0002qF-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:33:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3C737B65.DF5FB115@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:33:09 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: Vincent Janelle , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Dreamtime.net Inc." wrote: > Actually, we need to run anywhere from 30 to 300 httpd processes, 20-25 megs > each. We want to know how can we decide if we need more RAM based on > 'systat' output. 25M X 300 = 7.5G The question is whether these processes working sets overlap, or if this is the actual unique working set size. The numbers you want are: Total RAM - shared working set / number of processes This gives you the max per process unique working set size. I expect that the working sets will overlap. The answer to your question in this case is "No". You can't get this information from systat. But you can get it from vmstat. The numbers you want to look for are a direct effect, and a side effect: o Number of clean pages swapped in per sample interval o Number of dirty pages written to disk backing store The first number tells you how much you are thrashing, and the second number will tell you that it's getting bad, as soon as it goes non-zero, since it means you are in a paging resource overload situation (the LRU should reap clean pages to throw away before it reaps dirty pages to swap out). The only exception to this are pages dirtied during run-up, that are never dirtied again. You can see these as an early knee in the statistics. If your intent is to add an "idiot light" that lights up when your customer should upgrade their box, then you will have to write a special purpose program, so that your sample intervals are controlled (see the vmstat source code for this). On the other hand, if the intent is just scaling measurements, then you can probably get by with a check before run-up, a check after run-up, but before load, and then a short sampling interval during a load test phase (be sure you write the stats to a terminal rather than a file, so that you don't skew the measuremenets with your own disk I/O and page requirements any more than necessary). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 12:29:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from absinthe.carnagecopia.com (absinthe.carnagecopia.com [216.187.87.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B62B37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13517 invoked by uid 85); 20 Feb 2002 20:29:49 -0000 Received: from random@carnagecopia.com by absinthe.carnagecopia.com with qmail-scanner-1.03 (uvscan: v4.0.50/v4186. . Clean. Processed in 0.137272 secs); 20 Feb 2002 20:29:49 -0000 Received: from firewall-vancouver.goblinstudios.com (HELO workstation-61) (204.244.192.2) by absinthe.carnagecopia.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 20:29:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:29:22 -0800 From: Vincent Janelle To: "Dreamtime.net Inc." Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram Message-Id: <20020220122922.2bbbd161.random@carnagecopia.com> In-Reply-To: References: <3C736028.FBD0F093@mindspring.com> Organization: Goblin Studios X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you're using http, you can achieve better scalability once you max out your memory and CPU by just adding more machines and a load-balancer.. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:46:43 -0800 "Dreamtime.net Inc." wrote: > Actually, we need to run anywhere from 30 to 300 httpd processes, 20-25 megs > each. We want to know how can we decide if we need more RAM based on > 'systat' output. > > Sincerely, > > Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 13: 3:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C13437B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0067.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.67] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ddtH-0001po-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:03:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3C740EFC.BE36E2DD@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:02:52 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vincent Janelle Cc: "Dreamtime.net Inc." , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Systat and Ram References: <3C736028.FBD0F093@mindspring.com> <20020220122922.2bbbd161.random@carnagecopia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vincent Janelle wrote: > "Dreamtime.net Inc." wrote: > > Actually, we need to run anywhere from 30 to 300 httpd processes, 20-25 megs > > each. We want to know how can we decide if we need more RAM based on > > 'systat' output. > > If you're using http, you can achieve better scalability once you max out your > memory and CPU by just adding more machines and a load-balancer.. Depends on the load balancer, and depends on the HTTP applications. For simple content, that is correct. For session content, that's incorrect, and for a lot of session sensitive CGIs, the state is not shared between machines in the HTTP cluster. For host sensitive state (e.g. session cookies, etc.), you need more than a simple brain-dead hardware load balancer. Obviously, if you are developing the applications yourself and don't make mistakes, then you can use a brain-dead load balancer with no problem, but many third party "shopping cart" applications are pretty stupid about session state. So is PHP's default session handling, for that matter. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 14:28:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail12.speakeasy.net (mail12.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A417F37B42B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11574 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 22:27:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([65.90.117.57]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2002 22:27:39 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3C6FC888.9040003@BGPBook.Com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:27:42 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Bob Van Valzah Subject: RE: Lock order reversal Cc: FreeBSD-SMP@FreeBSD.Org Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17-Feb-02 Bob Van Valzah wrote: > Sorry if this isn't the right place to report this. Maybe I should > sendpr this kind of > thing? Sorry, I don't know the protocol. > > I shutdown my laptop (running -CURRENT as of Tuesday afternoon) and saw > this: > > syncing disks.. 6 5 4 3 2 2 1 1 > done > lock order reversal > 1st 0xc03a9d40 allproc @ /usr/src/sys/kernvfs_syscalls.c:452 > 2nd 0xc2880234 filedesc structure @ /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 > Uptime: 1d14h10m48s > /dev/vmmon: Module vmmon: unloaded > > The operating system has halted. > Please press any key to reboot. Yes, this one is a bit tough to fix. It will probably involve some changes to selwakeup() and possibly struct selinfo as well. The pfind() in selwakeup() is what ends up being the root cause here. > Bob -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 14:28:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail11.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A98637B419 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14722 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 22:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([65.90.117.57]) (envelope-sender ) by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2002 22:27:36 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3C6D5DC3.6060108@Talarian.Com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:27:39 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Bob Van Valzah Subject: RE: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs Cc: smp@FreeBSD.Org Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Feb-02 Bob Van Valzah wrote: > I just got back from BSDCon where I heard several folks working on SMPng > asking for volunteers. > > My "day job" prevents me doing things like writing code or doing serious > debugging, but I think I might still be able to help the SMPng cause. (I > actually did one of the early MP Unix implementations on Gould hardware > back in 1983, but I haven't kept current.) So I guess you could say that > I understand the problem space and I'm excited about what you're trying > to do for 5.0, but I'm rusty. > > I haven't written a line of kernel code in over 10 years, so I'm > thinking I might be most helpful on testing, benchmarking, or profiling > work. I'm able to use ddb to help you figure out what's going on, but I > probably can't help you figure out how to fix it. I'm not likely to have > big chunks of time to work on SMPng, but I can probably muster a steady > stream of small blocks of time. > > I have an old dual PII-233 box sitting around and I'd be glad to put it > to work if that'd help in some way. (My experience in the past has been > that older, slower machines sometimes shake out latent bugs that you > don't hit on modern screamers.) > > I could probably do something like regular builds from -CURRENT and run > various benchmarks or torture tests. I'd be happy to run regular > benchmarks against 3.x, 4.x, other BSDs, Linux or whatever. Testing is a big help, yes. :) > Also, I think I could do a decent job of SMP "data mining" if that'd > help. For example, I might be able to cobble together some tools to > analyze lock counters or other statistics. > > I see "profiling is broken" on the known issues list. I might be able to > tackle that, but don't want to bite off more that I can chew--esp. not > for my first attempt. How badly broken is it? Actually, I'm not exactly sure how broken it really is. If you could figure out how kernel profiling works and then figure out if it is actually broken or not, that would be great. :) > So I'm leaving myself open for suggestions here. Please let me know > what'd be most helpful. I'll try to pitch in where I can. > > Thanks, > > Bob -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 14:32: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from web14202.mail.yahoo.com (web14202.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A31D37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:32:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020220223203.88354.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.43.170.117] by web14202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:32:03 PST Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:32:03 -0800 (PST) From: frank mancuso Subject: smp To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 14:46: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0280537B402; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id CD41DAE2E0; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:46:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:46:00 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: John Baldwin Cc: Bob Van Valzah , FreeBSD-SMP@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: Lock order reversal Message-ID: <20020220224600.GK12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <3C6FC888.9040003@BGPBook.Com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * John Baldwin [020220 14:31] wrote: > > On 17-Feb-02 Bob Van Valzah wrote: > > Sorry if this isn't the right place to report this. Maybe I should > > sendpr this kind of > > thing? Sorry, I don't know the protocol. > > > > I shutdown my laptop (running -CURRENT as of Tuesday afternoon) and saw > > this: > > > > syncing disks.. 6 5 4 3 2 2 1 1 > > done > > lock order reversal > > 1st 0xc03a9d40 allproc @ /usr/src/sys/kernvfs_syscalls.c:452 > > 2nd 0xc2880234 filedesc structure @ /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 > > Uptime: 1d14h10m48s > > /dev/vmmon: Module vmmon: unloaded > > > > The operating system has halted. > > Please press any key to reboot. > > Yes, this one is a bit tough to fix. It will probably involve some changes to > selwakeup() and possibly struct selinfo as well. The pfind() in selwakeup() is > what ends up being the root cause here. Where is selwakeup being called with a filedesc held? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 15:20:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639E837B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220232016.RCOO2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:20:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA64695; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:11:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: frank mancuso Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: smp In-Reply-To: <20020220223203.88354.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org and you question was? :-) On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, frank mancuso wrote: > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 18:15: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail.velosystems.net (wsip68-15-85-238.oc.oc.cox.net [68.15.85.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0BF37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:14:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from win2kads (win2kads [192.168.1.5]) by mail.velosystems.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 29F4212729 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:14:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <01c501c1ba7d$8efb0b60$0501a8c0@VELOSYSTEMS.NET> From: "Steve Wingate" To: Subject: Test Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:14:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C1BA3A.809F5640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C1BA3A.809F5640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not getting anything back from this list. (and to think I always hated these test messages too) ------=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C1BA3A.809F5640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not getting anything back from this = list.
 
(and to think I always hated these test = messages=20 too)
------=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C1BA3A.809F5640-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 20:32:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE7537B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15063 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 04:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([65.91.152.92]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 21 Feb 2002 04:32:39 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20020220224600.GK12136@elvis.mu.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:32:38 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: Lock order reversal Cc: FreeBSD-SMP@FreeBSD.Org, Bob Van Valzah Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20-Feb-02 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * John Baldwin [020220 14:31] wrote: >> >> On 17-Feb-02 Bob Van Valzah wrote: >> > Sorry if this isn't the right place to report this. Maybe I should >> > sendpr this kind of >> > thing? Sorry, I don't know the protocol. >> > >> > I shutdown my laptop (running -CURRENT as of Tuesday afternoon) and saw >> > this: >> > >> > syncing disks.. 6 5 4 3 2 2 1 1 >> > done >> > lock order reversal >> > 1st 0xc03a9d40 allproc @ /usr/src/sys/kernvfs_syscalls.c:452 >> > 2nd 0xc2880234 filedesc structure @ /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:457 >> > Uptime: 1d14h10m48s >> > /dev/vmmon: Module vmmon: unloaded >> > >> > The operating system has halted. >> > Please press any key to reboot. >> >> Yes, this one is a bit tough to fix. It will probably involve some changes >> to >> selwakeup() and possibly struct selinfo as well. The pfind() in selwakeup() >> is >> what ends up being the root cause here. > > Where is selwakeup being called with a filedesc held? It's not that direct. :) It's more like filedesc is sometimes held when a bpf lock is acquired, and the allproc lock is acquired by pfind in selwakeup when bpf is held sometimes. So it's not a direct lock order relationship. My preferred solution is to remove the pfind from selwakeup if possible, but that isn't entirely trivial to do. > -Alfred -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Wed Feb 20 23:26:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD40737B402; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L7Qds65378; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:26:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id XAA429886; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:24:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202210724.XAA429886@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: John Baldwin Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, smp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Project management (was: Patch sets to date and timi In-Reply-To: Message from John Baldwin of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:48:24 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:24:15 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > There is http://www.freebsd.org/smp/ > > If someone wanted to convert this over to Twiki, go for it. New ideas to add > to the list are welcome as well. > I'll install TWiki on my home server tomorrow and publish when I'm ready, probably a day or so if all goes well. Then people can try it out and if people like it that will be fine. I'll write up a short email with pointers etc. so people will have an idea what to expect. If people hate it, well there is always rm :-) Later, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Thu Feb 21 9:42:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.whitebarn.com (Spin.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D06C37B400; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:42:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from NewStorm.whitebarn.com (NewStorm.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.77]) by smtp.whitebarn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA97161; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:42:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from Bob@Talarian.Com) Subject: RE: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs From: Bob Van Valzah To: John Baldwin Cc: smp@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 21 Feb 2002 11:42:27 -0600 Message-Id: <1014313347.1397.32.camel@NewStorm.WhiteBarn.Com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John, Thanks for your reply. I was beginning to think that nobody read the SMP alias :-) The box I have available for SMP testing is running -STABLE now, but it has enough space that I can also install -CURRENT (and Linux or whatever). I'm building a -STABLE kernel with config -p now and will take it for a spin tonight so that I'm up-to-speed on what to expect from a profiled kernel. Then I'll try the same on -CURRENT and look for differences. This should help to "quantify" any breakage. Is this the place to report my findings? Could you please suggest something to generate a good system call load for a profiled kernel? Maybe a -j4 buildworld of 4.5-RELEASE? Maybe an Apache build? Lemmie know. Thanks, Bob On Wed, 2002-02-20 at 16:27, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 15-Feb-02 Bob Van Valzah wrote: > > I just got back from BSDCon where I heard several folks working on SMPng > > asking for volunteers. > > > > My "day job" prevents me doing things like writing code or doing serious > > debugging, but I think I might still be able to help the SMPng cause. (I > > actually did one of the early MP Unix implementations on Gould hardware > > back in 1983, but I haven't kept current.) So I guess you could say that > > I understand the problem space and I'm excited about what you're trying > > to do for 5.0, but I'm rusty. > > > > I haven't written a line of kernel code in over 10 years, so I'm > > thinking I might be most helpful on testing, benchmarking, or profiling > > work. I'm able to use ddb to help you figure out what's going on, but I > > probably can't help you figure out how to fix it. I'm not likely to have > > big chunks of time to work on SMPng, but I can probably muster a steady > > stream of small blocks of time. > > > > I have an old dual PII-233 box sitting around and I'd be glad to put it > > to work if that'd help in some way. (My experience in the past has been > > that older, slower machines sometimes shake out latent bugs that you > > don't hit on modern screamers.) > > > > I could probably do something like regular builds from -CURRENT and run > > various benchmarks or torture tests. I'd be happy to run regular > > benchmarks against 3.x, 4.x, other BSDs, Linux or whatever. > > Testing is a big help, yes. :) > > > Also, I think I could do a decent job of SMP "data mining" if that'd > > help. For example, I might be able to cobble together some tools to > > analyze lock counters or other statistics. > > > > I see "profiling is broken" on the known issues list. I might be able to > > tackle that, but don't want to bite off more that I can chew--esp. not > > for my first attempt. How badly broken is it? > > Actually, I'm not exactly sure how broken it really is. If you could figure > out how kernel profiling works and then figure out if it is actually broken or > not, that would be great. :) > > > So I'm leaving myself open for suggestions here. Please let me know > > what'd be most helpful. I'll try to pitch in where I can. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob > > -- > > John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Thu Feb 21 9:52:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from hpux27.dc.engr.scu.edu (hpux27.dc.engr.scu.edu [129.210.16.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9A837B400; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dclark@localhost) by hpux27.dc.engr.scu.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g1LHq1m12035; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:52:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:52:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Dorr H. Clark" To: Bob Van Valzah Cc: John Baldwin , smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs In-Reply-To: <1014313347.1397.32.camel@NewStorm.WhiteBarn.Com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Feb 2002, Bob Van Valzah wrote: > Could you please suggest something to generate a good system call load > for a profiled kernel? Maybe a -j4 buildworld of 4.5-RELEASE? Maybe an > Apache build? Lemmie know. For profiling kernels, lmbench is a superior package: http://www.bitmover.com/lmbench/ -dhc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Thu Feb 21 10:48:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.whitebarn.com (Spin.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F62837B402; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Talarian.Com (Chin.whitebarn.com [216.0.13.79]) by smtp.whitebarn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA98264; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:48:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from Bob@Talarian.Com) Message-ID: <3C7540BD.3030805@Talarian.Com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:47:25 -0600 From: Bob Van Valzah User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dorr H. Clark" Cc: John Baldwin , smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050500020105070307000804" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------050500020105070307000804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the tip. I actually worked with Larry McVoy on a Unix porting project in the late 80's. I'd forgotten about lmbench. Are there any particular tests within lmbench which you'd find particularly telling? Bob Dorr H. Clark wrote: >On 21 Feb 2002, Bob Van Valzah wrote: > >>Could you please suggest something to generate a good system call load >>for a profiled kernel? Maybe a -j4 buildworld of 4.5-RELEASE? Maybe an >>Apache build? Lemmie know. >> > >For profiling kernels, lmbench is a superior package: > >http://www.bitmover.com/lmbench/ > >-dhc > --------------050500020105070307000804 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the tip. I actually worked with Larry McVoy on a Unix porting project in the late 80's. I'd forgotten about lmbench. Are there any particular tests within lmbench which you'd find particularly telling?

    Bob

Dorr H. Clark wrote:
On 21 Feb 2002, Bob Van Valzah wrote:

Could you please suggest something to generate a good system call load
for a profiled kernel? Maybe a -j4 buildworld of 4.5-RELEASE? Maybe an
Apache build? Lemmie know.

For profiling kernels, lmbench is a superior package:

http://www.bitmover.com/lmbench/

-dhc

--------------050500020105070307000804-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Thu Feb 21 11:43: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43CEC37B405; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0500.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.245] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dz6x-0004MH-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:42:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3C754DA0.A56CA081@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:42:24 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dorr H. Clark" Cc: Bob Van Valzah , John Baldwin , smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Dorr H. Clark" wrote: > On 21 Feb 2002, Bob Van Valzah wrote: > > Could you please suggest something to generate a good system call load > > for a profiled kernel? Maybe a -j4 buildworld of 4.5-RELEASE? Maybe an > > Apache build? Lemmie know. > > For profiling kernels, lmbench is a superior package: > > http://www.bitmover.com/lmbench/ FreeBSD 4.5 vs. FreeBSD 5.0, yes. FreeBSD X vs. any other OS, no... this is a collection of microbenchmarks, not a benchmark like webbench or polygraph, which attempt to model real world load (polygraph less than webbench, since it cheats to prevent cache algorithms from working). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Thu Feb 21 14:20:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC0337B404; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221222010.BZYD1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:20:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA69645; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:07:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:07:52 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Dorr H. Clark" Cc: Bob Van Valzah , John Baldwin , smp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Volunteering: Old fart with old CPUs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's not superior to compiling with -p On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Dorr H. Clark wrote: > > On 21 Feb 2002, Bob Van Valzah wrote: > > > Could you please suggest something to generate a good system call load > > for a profiled kernel? Maybe a -j4 buildworld of 4.5-RELEASE? Maybe an > > Apache build? Lemmie know. > > For profiling kernels, lmbench is a superior package: > > http://www.bitmover.com/lmbench/ > > -dhc > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Fri Feb 22 11:21:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B896D37B400; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1MJL3s97593; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:21:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id LAA704177; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:20:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202221920.LAA704177@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: TWiki as promised... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:20:40 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Folks, In an attempt to help out with coordination on projects I've put up a TWiki (see www.twiki.org for info on TWiki) site on my web server. As a guest you can read but not update, you have to register to update content. There is a Freebsd web and it has 1 topic which is the SMP project. I have put the entire page from http://www.freebsd.org/smp/ into TWiki. The local references on that page (i.e. the href:./foo.txt stuff) are now external references but we could fix that. A few notes might be helpful. 1) Why did you do this? TWiki (and Wiki's in general) allow people to easily update centralized web content without haveing to have real logins on the web serving computer. This makes keeping things like worklists trivial. The language used by TWiki is NOT HTML but a clever subset that requires a lot less work. For instance a table looks like this: | Task | Responsible | Date| | Task 1| GeorgeNevilleNeil| 2 March 2002 | This will get translated into a nice, simple HTML table by the TWiki stuff. 2) What do I have to do to use this? To read the stuff just go to: http://www.neville-neil.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome and click on the Freebsd label. To update you must register. Go to the main page and register yourself. The passwords are encrypted but I WOULD NOT use my system password here. Actually, I'd like it if you didn't use any important password there, I don't want to be responsible for y'all in that way. 3) How do I learn more about TWiki? Go to www.twiki.org In particular check out: http://TWiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/TWikiPresentation s to see why and how we should be using TWiki. ONE FINAL NOTE. TWiki uses WordsLikeThis to denote automatic links. This means that FreeBSD is an automatic link. If you MUST type FreeBSD then put a before it on the page. I'm working with the author to come up with a way to make it so that FreeBSD never gets converted within our TWiki Web. Later, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Fri Feb 22 13:40:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A03737B416; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020222214008.GCBK1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:40:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA74908; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:23:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:23:32 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... In-Reply-To: <200202221920.LAA704177@meer.meer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hmm cute I added a comment as an experiment.. really quite easy to use after the first 5 minute learning curve. On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > 2) What do I have to do to use this? > > To read the stuff just go to: > > http://www.neville-neil.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome > > and click on the Freebsd label. > > To update you must register. Go to the main page and register yourself. > The passwords are encrypted but I WOULD NOT use my system password > here. Actually, I'd like it if you didn't use any important password there, I > don't want to be responsible for y'all in that way. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Fri Feb 22 14: 2:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A754537B416; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1MM25s01360; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id OAA642995; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:01:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202222201.OAA642995@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Julian Elischer Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... In-Reply-To: Message from Julian Elischer of "Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:23:32 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:01:30 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hmm cute > > I added a comment as an experiment.. > really quite easy to use after the first 5 minute learning curve. > Well, you're the only one to use it thus far so let's see what others think as well. Thanks for checking it out though. Later, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Fri Feb 22 14:24:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from leon.amaretti.net (leon.amaretti.net [195.224.53.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2E937B404 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc-62-30-125-142-cr.blueyonder.co.uk ([62.30.125.142] helo=globalnet.co.uk) by leon.amaretti.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16eO9m-0008mT-00 for freebsd-smp@freebsd.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:27:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3C76C52B.A7434155@globalnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:24:43 +0000 From: John Ekins Reply-To: jre@globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: Dead link on http://www.freebsd.org/smp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello fellas, I know you hae other things to worry about but I'm getting a dead link for the status report under 13 January 2002. The link points to "http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=122646+0+archive/2002/freebsd-cmp/20020113.freebsd-smp" which leads me to "The specified message cannot be accessed." Cheers, John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Fri Feb 22 14:28:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A6037B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (arr@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.5) with SMTP id g1MMSUQ65582; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:28:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from arr@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: arr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:28:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew R. Reiter" X-Sender: arr@fledge.watson.org To: John Ekins Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Dead link on http://www.freebsd.org/smp In-Reply-To: <3C76C52B.A7434155@globalnet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, John Ekins wrote: :Hello fellas, : :I know you hae other things to worry about but I'm getting a dead link for :the status report under 13 January 2002. The link points to :"http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=122646+0+archive/2002/freebsd-cmp/20020113.freebsd-smp" :which leads me to "The specified message cannot be accessed." : Crap; I did this. I believe builds of the website only occur 1 time per day, so I'll fix it this evening. Sorry about that :-/ Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew R. Reiter arr@watson.org arr@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 20:42:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51FA37B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1O4gDi18006; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:42:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O4gCL08226; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:41:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20020223.214152.103234640.imp@village.org> To: gnn@neville-neil.com Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200202221920.LAA704177@meer.meer.net> References: <200202221920.LAA704177@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So how do I add NewCard project to this TWiki? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 21: 2:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5D137B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O521s26456; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id VAA894540; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:01:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202240501.VAA894540@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... In-Reply-To: Message from "M. Warner Losh" of "Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:41:52 MST." <20020223.214152.103234640.imp@village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:01:38 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So how do I add NewCard project to this TWiki? > Go into the CurrentProjects area and edit the page. Add a WikiWord that's something like NewCard. You'll see that when you're done editing the new word shows up as an incomplete link (It has a ? at the end). Click on the ? and then you get a fresh page. Add whatever you like to it. Later, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 21:12:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B110137B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 8CBF85343; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:12:17 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... References: <200202240501.VAA894540@meer.meer.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Feb 2002 06:12:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200202240501.VAA894540@meer.meer.net> Message-ID: Lines: 7 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Would you mind changing the description of the twiki to something else than "where all FreeBSD collaboration happens"? It might give people the wrong impression. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 21:18:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2872137B400; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O5I1s26576; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:18:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id VAA897648; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:17:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202240517.VAA897648@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... In-Reply-To: Message from Dag-Erling Smorgrav of "24 Feb 2002 06:12:17 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:17:28 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Would you mind changing the description of the twiki to something else > than "where all FreeBSD collaboration happens"? It might give people > the wrong impression. Sure. Suggestions? I don't mind what people put into this, that's much of the point. It's just a place holder. Remember, anyone can edit, it's social pressure that keeps things from a state of chaos. Anyways, what would people like? Later, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 22: 0:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5C437B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 930CB5341; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:00:08 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... References: <200202240517.VAA897648@meer.meer.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Feb 2002 07:00:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200202240517.VAA897648@meer.meer.net> Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "George V. Neville-Neil" writes: > Anyways, what would people like? "Information and discussions about various FreeBSD subprojects"? BTW, why don't you want a FreeBSD WikiTerm? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 22: 8: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5841637B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O681s26953; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:08:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id WAA929178; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:07:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202240607.WAA929178@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... In-Reply-To: Message from Dag-Erling Smorgrav of "24 Feb 2002 07:00:07 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:07:52 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "Information and discussions about various FreeBSD subprojects"? Sounds good. Check that in there. > BTW, why don't you want a FreeBSD WikiTerm? > Well it's a bit odd. Anywhere you put the word FreeBSD lights up as a link. I guess we could put a generic page under it or something but it's annoying (to me at least) to see FreeBSD as a link everywhere when it's mostly just a name. Later, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-smp Sat Feb 23 22:11:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA72037B404; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:11:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 1A8E55341; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:11:44 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TWiki as promised... References: <200202240607.WAA929178@meer.meer.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 24 Feb 2002 07:11:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200202240607.WAA929178@meer.meer.net> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "George V. Neville-Neil" writes: > > BTW, why don't you want a FreeBSD WikiTerm? > Well it's a bit odd. Anywhere you put the word FreeBSD lights up as a link. > I guess we could put a generic page under it or something but it's > annoying (to me at least) to see FreeBSD as a link everywhere when it's > mostly just a name. Pfooey. That's just the way Wiki works :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message