From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 8:54:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A023637B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2029F43ED8 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28743D27 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:55:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:55:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> In-reply-to: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16 Dec 2002 at 10:44, Dan Langille wrote: > Hi folks, > > There will be an Open Source Weekend in January (http://www.osw.ca/) > here in Ottawa. > > I plan to be at U of O with some BSD boxes hooked up in a small > network. I'll be able to demonstrate installs, system upgrades (e.g. > cvsup the source/port trees), port upgrades, etc. That means I'll > have a cvsup server, a mirror of the FreeBSD website, and others. If > anyone wishes to help with that, or has suggestions, please let me > know. > > Anyone wishing to create their own demonstration is asked to speak up > now and let us know your ideas. The schedule is now available at http://www.osw.ca/schedule.html and as you can see, it's all about Linux. Why? Because nobody has stepped forward to do anything else. Any volunteers? -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 10:57:40 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819C537B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (milan.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BB843EB2 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 10:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F146ABC9; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:57:30 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DB13A4470; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:57:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 19:57:29 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer To: Dan Langille Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 11:55:25AM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > On 16 Dec 2002 at 10:44, Dan Langille wrote: >=20 > > Hi folks, > >=20 > > There will be an Open Source Weekend in January (http://www.osw.ca/) > > here in Ottawa. > >=20 > > I plan to be at U of O with some BSD boxes hooked up in a small=20 > > network. I'll be able to demonstrate installs, system upgrades (e.g. > > cvsup the source/port trees), port upgrades, etc. That means I'll > > have a cvsup server, a mirror of the FreeBSD website, and others. If > > anyone wishes to help with that, or has suggestions, please let me > > know. > >=20 > > Anyone wishing to create their own demonstration is asked to speak up > > now and let us know your ideas. =20 >=20 > The schedule is now available at http://www.osw.ca/schedule.html and=20 > as you can see, it's all about Linux. Why? Because nobody has=20 > stepped forward to do anything else. Any volunteers? > --=20 > Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ >=20 >=20 Well, I'm afraid I can't help you as I live in germany, but this shows a general problem we have here. I helped organizing three BSD booths this year, NetBSD and OpenBSD were always present with several people (besides the Linux-Kongress booth, but that one doesn't matter). Some days ago I came back from the 19c3 in Berlin, Germany. OpenBSD and NetBSD both had pretty big booths there with lots of stuff to show and sell. I was the only FreeBSD guy over there (unfortunately I didn't have time to prepare something), while there were several OpenBSD and NetBSD people, among them some developers. This is kind of funny, since FreeBSD had the biggest marketshare among the BSD projects. I don't really know how to motivate people to help at booths or set up their own ones, but it is a great way of helping the project without being a great coder or something. For people in Germany/Europe:=20 There is a mailing list where booths are organized/coordinated, suggestions can be made and such. bsd-events@unix-ag.uni-kl.de The subscribtion works like with the FreeBSD mailing lists, mail to majordomo@unix-ag.uni-kl.de with subscribe bsd-events in the body and so on. I really would like to see some activity in this area. - Christian --=20 http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D GPG Key ID : 0xA0ED982D --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+GdGZbHYXjKDtmC0RAoc9AJ9Hh7D+0uNFNjquXCnrjD7ibnGJ7QCgjVnf TwmTGQhbEbWGjBvE8Y18wJI= =BK9F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --M9NhX3UHpAaciwkO-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11: 6:39 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07C737B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA77943EB2 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) id h06J6aRw021606; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:06:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (electron.centtech.com [204.177.173.173]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h06J6YNG021597; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:06:34 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:06:35 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Brueffer Cc: Dan Langille , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christian Brueffer wrote: > > Well, I'm afraid I can't help you as I live in germany, but this shows > a general problem we have here. > > I helped organizing three BSD booths this year, NetBSD and OpenBSD > were always present with several people (besides the Linux-Kongress > booth, but that one doesn't matter). > Some days ago I came back from the 19c3 in Berlin, Germany. OpenBSD > and NetBSD both had pretty big booths there with lots of stuff to > show and sell. > I was the only FreeBSD guy over there (unfortunately I didn't have > time to prepare something), while there were several OpenBSD and > NetBSD people, among them some developers. > > This is kind of funny, since FreeBSD had the biggest marketshare > among the BSD projects. > > I don't really know how to motivate people to help at booths or > set up their own ones, but it is a great way of helping the project > without being a great coder or something. This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly out there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of thing, and their locations (generally). That way, when one of us is setting up a booth, or for any other reason, we can call on those near us.. What does everyone think about that? Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11:16:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F7E37B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F9543EC5 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:16:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277CD8A98AE; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:16:08 -0400 (AST) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:16:08 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Eric Anderson Cc: Christian Brueffer , Dan Langille , "" Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend In-Reply-To: <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> Message-ID: <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: > This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly out > there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of thing, and > their locations (generally). That way, when one of us is setting up a > booth, or for any other reason, we can call on those near us.. > > What does everyone think about that? Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events posted to -announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11:20:18 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B97737B401; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CDA43EC2; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:20:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18VcnC-0000nC-00; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:20:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:20:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: chip wiegand , Subject: BSD booth at (was Re: freebsdzine.org web site) In-Reply-To: <20030105153213.48a08455.chip@wiegand.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also, any BSD users in area from Vancouver BC down to Portland, Oregon that would be interested in helping run a BSD booth at the LinuxFest Northwest event in April in Bellingham, Washington? I already signed up for a BSD booth; I can get more if we have enough volunteers. I cc'd this to freebsd-advocacy. (And I'll provide more details there later.) Maybe we can just use freebsd-advocacy for follow-ups. Jeremy C. Reed http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11:26:14 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A8C37B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04CE43EE5 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3478A97AD for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:26:10 -0400 (AST) X-Received: from localhost ([unix socket]) by hub.org (Cyrus v2.2.prealpha) with LMTP; Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:25:06 -0400 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 X-Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E558A994D for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:23:11 -0400 (AST) X-Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6D13F5418; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:23:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:23:08 -0800 From: Linh Pham To: "Marc G. Fournier" Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106192308.GA95409@q.closedsrc.org> References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: closedsrc.org Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Key: http://olosecsrc.org/~question/pubkey.asc" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,PGP_SIGNATURE_2, REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-01-06 15:16 -0400, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: # Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events posted to # -announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? I don't know how feasible this would be... but how about setting up some type of Wiki or Wiki-like site that would be used to host an events calendar, an ever-changing list of what and who is needed, etc. --=20 Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+GdecwhofDeWkDMIRAt1mAKC2bHf9U3VS9EB2trjJC6dHvkUWKgCfTjXJ BvJASXnhMFNlccDBPSi9QNo= =w/8X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11:30:57 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2ED37B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:30:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (milan.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D70643EC2 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:30:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA42ABC9; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:30:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 62DDE4470; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:30:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 20:30:52 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: Eric Anderson , Dan Langille , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106193052.GD64859@unixpages.org> References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CdrF4e02JqNVZeln" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 03:16:08PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: >=20 > > This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly out > > there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of thing, and > > their locations (generally). That way, when one of us is setting up a > > booth, or for any other reason, we can call on those near us.. > > > > What does everyone think about that? >=20 > Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events posted to > -announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? >=20 That would be an option. Another thing is www.eurobsd.org. At the moment it's a website about past and upcoming OpenBSD events, but ultimately,=20 Wim Vandeputte wants it to cover all three BSDs. This is just for Europe, but usually the OpenBSD guys are very interested to collaborate with the other projects, so this is another place where people can inform themselves about upcoming events. A website like bsdevents.org or freebsdevents.org or something would be nic= e, where people could inform themselves about past and present events, things that are currently planned, maybe stuff to set up an own booth. Maybe events.FreeBSD.org :-) - Christian --=20 http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D GPG Key ID : 0xA0ED982D --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+GdlrbHYXjKDtmC0RApLRAJ9kG7CeSPKxyeGQHIA7DXQdtcrZSwCg9yeB KPPOjv/Wa1q3R25zUTwdquc= =yOFj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11:35:47 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8965C37B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B69343F0C for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4DD8A93D8; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:35:43 -0400 (AST) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:35:43 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Christian Brueffer Cc: Eric Anderson , Dan Langille , "" Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend In-Reply-To: <20030106193052.GD64859@unixpages.org> Message-ID: <20030106153441.R63479@hub.org> References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> <20030106193052.GD64859@unixpages.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like the 'shared calendar' between the *BSDs ... all three have seperate mandates, but working on things like that in concert with each other just makes us stronger ... On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 03:16:08PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: > > > > > This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly out > > > there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of thing, and > > > their locations (generally). That way, when one of us is setting up a > > > booth, or for any other reason, we can call on those near us.. > > > > > > What does everyone think about that? > > > > Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events posted to > > -announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? > > > > That would be an option. Another thing is www.eurobsd.org. At the moment > it's a website about past and upcoming OpenBSD events, but ultimately, > Wim Vandeputte wants it to cover all three BSDs. > > This is just for Europe, but usually the OpenBSD guys are very interested > to collaborate with the other projects, so this is another place where > people can inform themselves about upcoming events. > > A website like bsdevents.org or freebsdevents.org or something would be nice, > where people could inform themselves about past and present events, > things that are currently planned, maybe stuff to set up an own booth. > > Maybe events.FreeBSD.org :-) > > - Christian > > -- > http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org > GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc > GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D > GPG Key ID : 0xA0ED982D > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 11:36:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1032937B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:36:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414C743F0F for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) id h06Jaf5C023570; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (electron.centtech.com [204.177.173.173]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h06JaeNG023560; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:36:41 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Brueffer Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" , Dan Langille , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> <20030106193052.GD64859@unixpages.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 03:16:08PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >>On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: >> >> >>>This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly out >>>there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of thing, and >>>their locations (generally). That way, when one of us is setting up a >>>booth, or for any other reason, we can call on those near us.. >>> >>>What does everyone think about that? >> >>Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events posted to >>-announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? >> > > > That would be an option. Another thing is www.eurobsd.org. At the moment > it's a website about past and upcoming OpenBSD events, but ultimately, > Wim Vandeputte wants it to cover all three BSDs. > > This is just for Europe, but usually the OpenBSD guys are very interested > to collaborate with the other projects, so this is another place where > people can inform themselves about upcoming events. > > A website like bsdevents.org or freebsdevents.org or something would be nice, > where people could inform themselves about past and present events, > things that are currently planned, maybe stuff to set up an own booth. > > Maybe events.FreeBSD.org :-) I like that idea.. I'd be willing to register (and host) bsdevents.org if I can get a few volunteers to help provide info on when things will happen.. I'm thinking that this would be a great place for all bsd's to get people to help out with their events and stuff.. Of course, we could always just have an area in an advocacy section of freebsd.org that would have just the freebsd stuff, but I think a separate site is all things in one. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 12:49: 8 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B6437B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85AC043ED4 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14783D27; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:49:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Marc G. Fournier" Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:49:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Cc: Eric Anderson , Dan Langille , "" Message-ID: <3E19A58F.27473.1C411BB@localhost> References: <20030106193052.GD64859@unixpages.org> In-reply-to: <20030106153441.R63479@hub.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I also like the shared calendar idea. On 6 Jan 2003 at 15:35, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > I like the 'shared calendar' between the *BSDs ... all three have > seperate mandates, but working on things like that in concert with > each other just makes us stronger ... > > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 03:16:08PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly > > > > out there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of > > > > thing, and their locations (generally). That way, when one of > > > > us is setting up a booth, or for any other reason, we can call > > > > on those near us.. > > > > > > > > What does everyone think about that? > > > > > > Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events > > > posted to -announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? > > > > > > > That would be an option. Another thing is www.eurobsd.org. At the > > moment it's a website about past and upcoming OpenBSD events, but > > ultimately, Wim Vandeputte wants it to cover all three BSDs. > > > > This is just for Europe, but usually the OpenBSD guys are very > > interested to collaborate with the other projects, so this is > > another place where people can inform themselves about upcoming > > events. > > > > A website like bsdevents.org or freebsdevents.org or something would > > be nice, where people could inform themselves about past and present > > events, things that are currently planned, maybe stuff to set up an > > own booth. > > > > Maybe events.FreeBSD.org :-) > > > > - Christian > > > > -- > > http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org > > GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc > > GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D > > GPG Key ID : 0xA0ED982D > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 12:49:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D7737B406 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDF0443EC5 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:49:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C0D3D27; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:49:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: Eric Anderson Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:50:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" , Dan Langille , advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <3E19A5AC.6766.1C485A3@localhost> In-reply-to: <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 6 Jan 2003 at 13:36, Eric Anderson wrote: > I like that idea.. I'd be willing to register (and host) bsdevents.org > if I can get a few volunteers to help provide info on when things will > happen.. > > I'm thinking that this would be a great place for all bsd's to get > people to help out with their events and stuff.. > > Of course, we could always just have an area in an advocacy section of > freebsd.org that would have just the freebsd stuff, but I think a > separate site is all things in one. Please go for it. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 13: 4:37 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991B637B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B9643EA9 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from question+advocacy@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1B3885416; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:04:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:04:25 -0800 From: Linh Pham To: Dan Langille Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106210425.GC95409@q.closedsrc.org> References: <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> <3E19A5AC.6766.1C485A3@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mvpLiMfbWzRoNl4x" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E19A5AC.6766.1C485A3@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: closedsrc.org Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Key: http://olosecsrc.org/~question/pubkey.asc" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --mvpLiMfbWzRoNl4x Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-01-06 15:50 -0500, Dan Langille wrote: # Please go for it. Right now, Daemon News has advocacy.daemonnews.org that could also be used to host advocacy information and resources for all BSDs and Darwin. The site hasn't been updated or loaded with content for a while... If anyone is interested in using that as an advocacy point, feel free to contact the DN editors at editors@daemonnews.org. --=20 Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --mvpLiMfbWzRoNl4x Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+Ge9ZwhofDeWkDMIRAvF6AJ9TA6pCGI+SLjjCrtafm2X7qkgO8gCgrV/1 fGyiWOi6QOnzaHOMUPFTbhQ= =vYjd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mvpLiMfbWzRoNl4x-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 13: 9:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D47937B406 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (milan.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8896A43EC2 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:09:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4501AA91E; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:08:59 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 76E6C4470; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:08:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:08:55 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer To: Eric Anderson Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" , Dan Langille , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106210855.GE64859@unixpages.org> References: <3DFDAE82.7837.3EF23B31@localhost> <3E196EAD.17611.EDAE70@localhost> <20030106185729.GC64859@unixpages.org> <3E19D3BB.7060100@centtech.com> <20030106151514.X63479@hub.org> <20030106193052.GD64859@unixpages.org> <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 01:36:41PM -0600, Eric Anderson wrote: > Christian Brueffer wrote: > >On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 03:16:08PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > >>On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: > >> > >> > >>>This is a big problem.. I'm in Texas, and won't be able to fly out > >>>there.. Maybe we need a list of volunteers for this sort of thing, and > >>>their locations (generally). That way, when one of us is setting up a > >>>booth, or for any other reason, we can call on those near us.. > >>> > >>>What does everyone think about that? > >> > >>Do we have an events calendar somewhere? maybe have new events posted = to > >>-announce, calling for ppl interested in participating? > >> > > > > > >That would be an option. Another thing is www.eurobsd.org. At the mome= nt > >it's a website about past and upcoming OpenBSD events, but ultimately,= =20 > >Wim Vandeputte wants it to cover all three BSDs. > > > >This is just for Europe, but usually the OpenBSD guys are very interested > >to collaborate with the other projects, so this is another place where > >people can inform themselves about upcoming events. > > > >A website like bsdevents.org or freebsdevents.org or something would be= =20 > >nice, > >where people could inform themselves about past and present events, > >things that are currently planned, maybe stuff to set up an own booth. > > > >Maybe events.FreeBSD.org :-) >=20 >=20 > I like that idea.. I'd be willing to register (and host) bsdevents.org=20 > if I can get a few volunteers to help provide info on when things will=20 > happen.. >=20 > I'm thinking that this would be a great place for all bsd's to get=20 > people to help out with their events and stuff.. >=20 > Of course, we could always just have an area in an advocacy section of=20 > freebsd.org that would have just the freebsd stuff, but I think a=20 > separate site is all things in one. >=20 > Eric >=20 >=20 > --=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology > Beware the fury of a patient man. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >=20 You got my vote :-) - Christian --=20 http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D GPG Key ID : 0xA0ED982D --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+GfBnbHYXjKDtmC0RAop3AKDYSwDUOWDzSoL0nqux60xkEU+dugCeOUD1 2XTR+dS1V/6PersEkzFJYWk= =A17O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 13:14:38 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BAD437B405 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from athena.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBFE43ED1 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from acc@anthonychavez.org) Received: from athena.anthonychavez.org (acc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by athena.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h06LBqvw031448; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from acc@athena.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by athena.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h06LBqhb031447; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:11:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:11:51 -0700 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: Linh Pham Cc: Dan Langille , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106211151.GA31379@anthonychavez.org> References: <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> <3E19A5AC.6766.1C485A3@localhost> <20030106210425.GC95409@q.closedsrc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030106210425.GC95409@q.closedsrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-PGP-Key: http://www.anthonychavez.org/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 01:04:25PM -0800, Linh Pham wrote: > On 2003-01-06 15:50 -0500, Dan Langille wrote: >=20 > # Please go for it. >=20 > Right now, Daemon News has advocacy.daemonnews.org that could also be used > to host advocacy information and resources for all BSDs and Darwin. The > site hasn't been updated or loaded with content for a while... >=20 > If anyone is interested in using that as an advocacy point, feel free to > contact the DN editors at editors@daemonnews.org. Allow me to stick my neck out here and say that advocacy.daemonnews.org would be an excellent place to host a centralized advocacy campaign. One of Daemon News's goals is just that: to represent ~all~ the BSDs under one roof, so to speak. > --=20 > Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org > Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org > Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org > Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --=20 Anthony Chavez http://www.anthonychavez.org/ mailto:acc@anthonychavez.org jabber:acc@jabber.anthonychavez.org --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+GfEXbZTbIaRBRXERAuDtAJ0dKpg4My5rx/Hkaw2CGWfw2xyNHACfRqg+ T7OSPcq3oJ5kuX0j4G+ypqI= =/GcO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 6 13:46:27 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C726737B401 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (milan.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BA743EC2 for ; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A811EA91E; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:46:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7B16C4470; Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:46:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:46:23 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer To: "Anthony C. Chavez" Cc: Linh Pham , Dan Langille , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ottawa: Open Source Weekend Message-ID: <20030106214623.GF64859@unixpages.org> References: <3E19DAC9.9050104@centtech.com> <3E19A5AC.6766.1C485A3@localhost> <20030106210425.GC95409@q.closedsrc.org> <20030106211151.GA31379@anthonychavez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZARJHfwaSJQLOEUz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030106211151.GA31379@anthonychavez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ZARJHfwaSJQLOEUz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 02:11:51PM -0700, Anthony C. Chavez wrote: > On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 01:04:25PM -0800, Linh Pham wrote: > > On 2003-01-06 15:50 -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > >=20 > > # Please go for it. > >=20 > > Right now, Daemon News has advocacy.daemonnews.org that could also be u= sed > > to host advocacy information and resources for all BSDs and Darwin. The > > site hasn't been updated or loaded with content for a while... > >=20 > > If anyone is interested in using that as an advocacy point, feel free to > > contact the DN editors at editors@daemonnews.org. >=20 > Allow me to stick my neck out here and say that advocacy.daemonnews.org > would be an excellent place to host a centralized advocacy campaign. > One of Daemon News's goals is just that: to represent ~all~ the BSDs > under one roof, so to speak. >=20 Wow, I didn't even know that site exists, although there's zero content at the moment. But I think these guys would be happy to have a maintainer for it. - Christian --=20 http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D GPG Key ID : 0xA0ED982D --ZARJHfwaSJQLOEUz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+GfkvbHYXjKDtmC0RAruNAJ9hDsCAN9NIs94xO+IA7jDryCZZHQCg3Mqs GMqkcNaEh5ExZqVkMlrtnsk= =X62B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZARJHfwaSJQLOEUz-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 11:56:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DF2037B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:56:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E0B43ED8 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulbeard@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (12-231-115-57.client.attbi.com[12.231.115.57]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with SMTP id <2003010819565605200bg9g6e>; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:56:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:56:55 -0800 From: paul beard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20021210 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: web write-up] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: web write-up Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:53:05 -0800 From: Sean Ellis Reply-To: Sean Ellis Organization: yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Hello freebsd-questions, I wonder if anyone has any comment on this web article. The results of the benchmarking seem to portray FreeBSD in a less than favourable light. http://www.samag.com/documents/s=1148/sam0107a/0107a.htm Please CC any replies as I am not currently subscribed. -- Best regards, Sean mailto:sellis@telus.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message -- Paul Beard: seeking UNIX/internet engineering work 8040 27th Ave NE Seattle WA 98115 / 206 529 8400 Furious activity is no substitute for understanding. -- H. H. Williams To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 12:43:50 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1A837B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:43:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D661543ED1 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 17448 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jan 2003 20:38:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:38:48 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Pasternak To: paul beard Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Message-ID: <20030108203848.GA17423@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Reply-To: Michal Pasternak References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG paul beard [Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 11:56:55AM -0800]: > I wonder if anyone has any comment on this web article. The results > of the benchmarking seem to portray FreeBSD in a less than > favourable light. UFS is worse, than EXT2? I can't belive it. Do you think that comparsion is _real_? Who could pay for stuff like that? Lindows.com? :S -- mp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 13: 3:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FD837B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C93043EB2 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:03:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from moble.pittgoth.com (acs-24-154-229-196.zoominternet.net [24.154.229.196]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08L39Ap036955; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:03:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:03:33 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Michal Pasternak Cc: paulbeard@mac.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Message-Id: <20030108160333.2b88a669.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20030108203848.GA17423@pasternak.w.lub.pl> References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <20030108203848.GA17423@pasternak.w.lub.pl> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:38:48 +0100 Micha³ Pasternak wrote: > paul beard [Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 11:56:55AM -0800]: > > I wonder if anyone has any comment on this web article. The > > results of the benchmarking seem to portray FreeBSD in a less than > > favourable light. > > UFS is worse, than EXT2? > > I can't belive it. > > Do you think that comparsion is _real_? Who could pay for stuff > like that? Lindows.com? :S Actually, looking over the article, it never mentioned the use of softupdates on the FreeBSD file system. I wonder who exactly was doing the configuration and tuning. -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 13:27:17 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AC937B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A852143EE6 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:27:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from stork (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h08L5tH20069 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0118.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.118] helo=mindspring.com) by stork with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WNOO-0000Zv-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:05:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:04:09 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul beard Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, sellis@telus.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4f72a77deea5a678d7edc3bf8830a4c4d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG paul beard wrote: > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:53:05 -0800 > From: Sean Ellis > Hello freebsd-questions, > > I wonder if anyone has any comment on this web article. The results > of the benchmarking seem to portray FreeBSD in a less than > favourable light. > > http://www.samag.com/documents/s=1148/sam0107a/0107a.htm > > Please CC any replies as I am not currently subscribed. This is a very old article. All it demonstrates that the software that was used in the statistics gathering was written with bad assumptions by people who did not know how to make code run fast anywhere but Linux. This was discussed to death when the article first came out, in January, 2 years ago. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 14:10:47 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6981037B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D75D243EA9 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:10:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 18205 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jan 2003 22:05:34 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:05:33 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Pasternak To: Terry Lambert Cc: paul beard , advocacy@freebsd.org, sellis@telus.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Message-ID: <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Reply-To: Michal Pasternak References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert [Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 01:04:09PM -0800]: > This is a very old article. All it demonstrates that the software > that was used in the statistics gathering was written with bad > assumptions by people who did not know how to make code run fast > anywhere but Linux. We all know, that 99% of benchmarks and statistics are untrue, but does any of you know about a recent surveys comparing speed of (network|filesystem|vm|anything else) on FreeBSD and Linux? I'm especially concerned about softupdates + dirhash compared to ext3fs or reiser. NVidia's drivers performance should be also easy to perform. -- mp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 14:36:15 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0818837B401; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4287D43ED1; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:36:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from stork (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by soulshock.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h08L8DH21055; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0118.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.118] helo=mindspring.com) by stork with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WNQE-0000q4-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:07:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1C92BD.F87E5071@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:06:05 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes Cc: Michal Pasternak , paulbeard@mac.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <20030108203848.GA17423@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <20030108160333.2b88a669.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4100b16ca8b273584ab1da3a3f574eeb7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tom Rhodes wrote: > Actually, looking over the article, it never mentioned the use of > softupdates on the FreeBSD file system. I wonder who exactly was > doing the configuration and tuning. Who cares? The article was published two years ago, to the day. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 14:38: 2 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9B937B405 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C988043ED1 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:38:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from moble.pittgoth.com (acs-24-154-229-196.zoominternet.net [24.154.229.196]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h08MbxAp037734; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:37:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:38:23 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Terry Lambert Cc: paulbeard@mac.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Message-Id: <20030108173823.70b9d753.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3E1C92BD.F87E5071@mindspring.com> References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <20030108203848.GA17423@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <20030108160333.2b88a669.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3E1C92BD.F87E5071@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:06:05 -0800 Terry Lambert wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Actually, looking over the article, it never mentioned the use of > > softupdates on the FreeBSD file system. I wonder who exactly was > > doing the configuration and tuning. > > Who cares? > > The article was published two years ago, to the day. > > -- Terry > I did, until you pointed out the date thing. Now I don't, and will just let it go. Thanks Terry. -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 15:10: 2 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B97937B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from priv-edtnes10-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound02.telus.net [199.185.220.221]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EEA43E4A for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:10:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from silverpenny ([216.232.36.68]) by priv-edtnes10-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030108230959.NUAY5251.priv-edtnes10-hme0.telusplanet.net@silverpenny>; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:09:59 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c2b76b$10586f50$c601a8c0@silverpenny> From: "Peter Kieser" To: "Michal Pasternak" , "Terry Lambert" Cc: "paul beard" , , References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:09:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The interesting thing about this article, was it was just _recentley_ posted on slashdot. Heh, and we wonder why everyone thinks of slashdot as an incorrect news source, probably was posted just to downplay Windows & FreeBSD. --Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Micha³ Pasternak" To: "Terry Lambert" Cc: "paul beard" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] > Terry Lambert [Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 01:04:09PM -0800]: > > This is a very old article. All it demonstrates that the software > > that was used in the statistics gathering was written with bad > > assumptions by people who did not know how to make code run fast > > anywhere but Linux. > > We all know, that 99% of benchmarks and statistics are untrue, > but does any of you know about a recent surveys comparing > speed of (network|filesystem|vm|anything else) on FreeBSD > and Linux? > > I'm especially concerned about softupdates + dirhash compared > to ext3fs or reiser. NVidia's drivers performance should be > also easy to perform. > > -- > mp > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 15:47:43 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728A437B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EC7643ED8 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 23831 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jan 2003 23:42:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:42:36 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Pasternak To: Peter Kieser Cc: Michal Pasternak , Terry Lambert , paul beard , advocacy@freebsd.org, sellis@telus.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Message-ID: <20030108234236.GA23705@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Reply-To: Michal Pasternak References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <001201c2b76b$10586f50$c601a8c0@silverpenny> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001201c2b76b$10586f50$c601a8c0@silverpenny> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Kieser [Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 03:09:57PM -0800]: > The interesting thing about this article, was it was just _recentley_ posted > on slashdot. Heh, and we wonder why everyone thinks of slashdot as an > incorrect news source, probably was posted just to downplay Windows & > FreeBSD. ,,Slashdot'' isn't different than ,,Cosmopolitan''. I seldom read them, neither belive what they say. Posting links to 2-yr old articles is just another their way of gaining audience. Time for EOT, isn't it? :) -- mp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 15:50:41 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6F837B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806CD43EB2 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:50:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulbeard@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (12-231-115-57.client.attbi.com[12.231.115.57]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53) with SMTP id <2003010823503805300k7ob9e>; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:50:38 +0000 Message-ID: <3E1CB94C.9020308@mac.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:50:36 -0800 From: paul beard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20021210 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Pasternak Cc: Peter Kieser , Terry Lambert , advocacy@freebsd.org, sellis@telus.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <001201c2b76b$10586f50$c601a8c0@silverpenny> <20030108234236.GA23705@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Micha³ Pasternak wrote: > Peter Kieser [Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 03:09:57PM -0800]: > >>The interesting thing about this article, was it was just _recentley_ posted >>on slashdot. Heh, and we wonder why everyone thinks of slashdot as an >>incorrect news source, probably was posted just to downplay Windows & >>FreeBSD. > > > ,,Slashdot'' isn't different than ,,Cosmopolitan''. I seldom > read them, neither belive what they say. Posting links to > 2-yr old articles is just another their way of gaining audience. > > Time for EOT, isn't it? :) yes, please. I only forwarded this to advocacy to get it out of questions. -- Paul Beard: seeking UNIX/internet engineering work 8040 27th Ave NE Seattle WA 98115 / 206 529 8400 The verdict of a jury is the a priori opinion of that juror who smokes the worst cigars. -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 16:44:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A9537B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net (outbound04.telus.net [199.185.220.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC6143E4A for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sellis@telus.net) Received: from WHATEVER ([216.232.148.24]) by priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030109004359.YXQA13269.priv-edtnes28.telusplanet.net@WHATEVER>; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:43:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:42:21 -0800 From: Sean Ellis X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.61) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Sean Ellis Organization: yes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <87154690447.20030108164221@telus.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: [Fwd: web write-up] In-Reply-To: <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Wednesday, January 8, 2003, 1:04:09 PM, you wrote: > This is a very old article. All it demonstrates that the software > that was used in the statistics gathering was written with bad > assumptions by people who did not know how to make code run fast > anywhere but Linux. > This was discussed to death when the article first came out, in > January, 2 years ago. aha. I can look that up then. thanks for this and all other replies, -- Sean mailto:sellis@telus.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 17:37:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E8F037B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5AE943EE6 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0497.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.242] helo=mindspring.com) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18WRdC-00014M-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:37:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3E1CD1D0.7D8914B8@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:35:12 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Pasternak Cc: paul beard , advocacy@freebsd.org, sellis@telus.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4cfc2e4079f0305bbdd9a121cc7a9c3a8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Micha=B3 Pasternak wrote: > We all know, that 99% of benchmarks and statistics are untrue, > but does any of you know about a recent surveys comparing > speed of (network|filesystem|vm|anything else) on FreeBSD > and Linux? I don't know of any recent statistics in this area. You would be better off asking the question after the end of Februrary, so someone could point you to the most recent Usenix proceedings, which will happen about then. > I'm especially concerned about softupdates + dirhash compared > to ext3fs or reiser. What specifically would you like to see compared, that's actually representative of expected real-world performance? For example, creating a boatload of files, all in the same directory, is never likely to happen with real applications, as long as they are written by people who know what they are doing, and want their performance to be protable to UNIX systems, in general (one of the problems with the mail server that started this thread, two yearts ago). Reiser is very hard for me to comment on; I believe that, even after they removed preserve lists, it still substantially infringes US Patent #5666532 (USL/Novell). Personally, I also dislike "dirhash", since in my opinion, it does not scale; it's author admits as much, and, for my money, it is addressing a symptom rather than a real problem. Comparing Extent based file systems or log structured file systems against block clustering-with-hashed-selection filesystems is, I think, comparing apples and oranges. They solve different problems, and the ones I think are most important are the ones that occur in the acknowledge the old dictium: "The steady state of disks is 'full'" -- Kirk McKusick =2E..meaning that you'd expect more of the system time, percentage-wise, to be taken up by the operation of a cleaner, on FS's whose designs did not include intrinsic protection against fragmentation. If, on the other hand, you have some ideas, then you should pursue them, and publish your papers at one of the academic conferences. > NVidia's drivers performance should be > also easy to perform. Notification of completion isn't really a feature of this hardware; I think the best you will be able to measure is something not very useful, like "filled triangles permitted by the driver to be queued to the device, per second, with no knowledge of the real render-rate", and I don't know how useful that would be, anyway. Even if I would personally disagree, most people seem to believe the propaganda that FreeBSD is not an OS for the desktop, or for games on the desktop. Taking that into account, though, since the company that made the cards made the drivers for both the OS's you are imputing a comparison between, without coming right out and saying it, I expect that they are as fast as the hardware vendor could driver their hardware. Any differences would be in what the programmers learned from previous implementations (which would favor the drivers implemented later over those implemented earlier). In any case, if you think it's possible to compare something that's really tied to presentation to a human, and do it so it's not a subjective comparison, you should do it. You still have time to submit your paper for the Freenix track for the Summer Usenix. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 8 19:34:38 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BE037B401 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (12-233-57-224.client.attbi.com [12.233.57.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033B843F1C for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h093YVZ3000813; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id h093YUfX000812; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:34:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:34:30 -0800 From: David Schultz To: "=?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?Micha=B3?= Pasternak" Cc: Terry Lambert , paul beard , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, sellis@telus.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: web write-up] Message-ID: <20030109033430.GA731@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: "=?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?Micha=B3?= Pasternak" , Terry Lambert , paul beard , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, sellis@telus.net References: <3E1C8287.1020506@mac.com> <3E1C9249.551D6932@mindspring.com> <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii:iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20030108220533.GB18151@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Micha³ Pasternak : > I'm especially concerned about softupdates + dirhash compared > to ext3fs or reiser. NVidia's drivers performance should be > also easy to perform. You can find an analysis of the performance impact of dirpref and dirhash in the paper ``Recent Filesystem Optimisations in FreeBSD'' on page 245 in _Proceedings of the FREENIX Track_ 2002. It doesn't address ext3fs, just as the ext3fs papers don't talk about UFS. Note that the paper portrays vmiodir poorly because the benchmarks presented don't tickle the particular case vmiodir is intended to address (even though vmiodir really does perform poorly in the situations tested). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 9 18:14:48 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5263737B401 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from debaser.madridwireless.net (26.Red-80-34-212.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.34.212.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69D443F1E for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from one-@madridwireless.net) Received: from irie.one-land.geored.org (82.Red-80-33-65.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.33.65.82]) by debaser.madridwireless.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3F6BBF1 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:14:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:14:46 +0100 From: Victor Sanchez To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030110031446.41ee6d97.one-@madridwireless.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 9 21:52:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0386537B427 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313EF43F13 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pdb2@u.washington.edu) Received: from u.washington.edu (12-231-115-57.client.attbi.com[12.231.115.57]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with SMTP id <2003011005520900300ld0mpe>; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:52:09 +0000 Message-ID: <3E1E5F82.3020306@u.washington.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:52:02 -0800 From: paul beard Reply-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: University of Washington User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20021210 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: James Hicks Subject: [Fwd: freebsd curiosity] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG forwarded from questions -------- Original Message -------- Subject: freebsd curiosity Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:26:10 -0800 From: James Hicks To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To whom it may concern, My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os we used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version 8.0 on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines like pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd homepage, zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few questions about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition trouble. Is this true and if so has it been fixed? I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks James Hicks ytwok_karate@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message -- Paul Beard 8040 27th Ave NE Seattle WA 98115 / 206 529 8400 A budget is just a method of worrying before you spend money, as well as afterward. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 9 23:58:42 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A2D37B401 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from isy.liu.se (isy.liu.se [130.236.48.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F69443EB2 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:58:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mj@isy.liu.se) Received: from isy.liu.se (tuttle.isy.liu.se [130.236.49.189]) by isy.liu.se (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h0A7wZr08288; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:58:35 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:00:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [Fwd: freebsd curiosity] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: James Hicks To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Michael Josefsson In-Reply-To: <3E1E5F82.3020306@u.washington.edu> Message-Id: <950B3814-2471-11D7-9B20-0003939BCCF2@isy.liu.se> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Troll or not, I have sliced in my comments... On Friday, January 10, 2003, at 06:52 AM, paul beard wrote: > forwarded from questions > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: freebsd curiosity > Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:26:10 -0800 > From: James Hicks > To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > > To whom it may concern, > My name is James. I'm a junior college graduate with an A.S. degree in > Computer Applications. I took a class in UNIX about a year ago. The os > we > used was Mandrake Linux. I've learned to like Red Hat and have version > 8.0 > on my home machine. I have been doing a lot of reading in magazines > like > pcmagazine and sought info online using sources like the freebsd > homepage, > zdnet, cnet, etc. I'm hearing alot of your UNIX os. I have a few > questions > about the system. First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? > By that I'm asking whether or not there is real UNIX code in it or is > it a clone just like > linux is? Real? Well some of the code is probably old enough to qualify, but since the legal trouble a the AT&T code has been removed. Does this really matter? It is definately not invented from scratch at a later date, like linux. One thing I like about FreeBSD is that it is conservative in a way. No fancy stuff unless really needed. And only fancy stuff that really works is there. > Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a > journaling one like ext3? It uses UFS (the Unix File System) with some later mods due to performance. Do a google for 'softupdates'. Softupdates has been incorporated into the default system since quite some time. It is not a journalling file system, but it makes journalling file systems unnecessary, sort of. > Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? Not really. The algorithms for laying out the data on disk are clever enough to minimise fragmentation on the fly. Copying a file makes the system redo the redo the anti-fragging, possibly making the file even less defragged. But I have never bothered. It just works. One percent or two may be fragged but not more than that, in the normal case. > I was told by my UNIX instructor that freebsd had hardware recognition > trouble. Is > this true and if so has it been fixed? Hardware is a really moving target. Yes, I feel (!) that the hardware support may be less than for the average linux. But that is not necessarily a bad thing: The hardware that is supported really is! My feel (again...) is that Linux has more '90%'-ready hardware support, while BSD has '100%'-ready. For normal hardware I have only had problems with newer graphics adapters. And that was several years ago. On the whole I wouldn't quit FreeBSD for not supporting hardware, I'd get the right hardware instead. > I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting > mission critical apps on a enterprise linux > system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm hearing > that linux has? The reason I left linux in the lurch was that FreeBSD 'just worked'. Years on end. I run it on both servers and my desktop, it doesn't fail me. As I have not used linux a lot I can only go by rumours, and the rumours are that FreeBSD takes heavy load better than Linux. Performance may level off at high loads but it keeps on going. Never stop! (Yes I am one pleased sysadm:) > Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that has better > stability than the GNU systems? Since FreeBSD also relies a lot on GNU it would be stupid to say that GNU is bad, it isn't. But the core code of FreeBSD has been tested for over 30 years, and have stood the test of time. There is no way Linux can have had that long debugging time. > I look forward to your reply. Thanks The best you can do is to download and install it. I did that in May 1997 and have never looked at another system since. In fact that was a lie. I have looked at other systems but there is nothing in them that attracts me since my any longer. I write this on an Apple Powerbook. The only system that actually has attracted me since 1997. I have always been an Apple-hater, but this new Mac OSX really is a gem! And since its core relies on BSD-code I also can rely on it:) /Micke > James Hicks > ytwok_karate@hotmail.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 10 0:13:14 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A15337B406 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:13:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E89AA43F5B for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 23656 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jan 2003 08:08:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:08:12 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Micha=B3?= Pasternak To: Michael Josefsson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, James Hicks Subject: Re: [Fwd: freebsd curiosity] Message-ID: <20030110080812.GA19500@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Reply-To: Michal Pasternak References: <3E1E5F82.3020306@u.washington.edu> <950B3814-2471-11D7-9B20-0003939BCCF2@isy.liu.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <950B3814-2471-11D7-9B20-0003939BCCF2@isy.liu.se> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Josefsson [Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 09:00:28AM +0100]: > Hardware is a really moving target. Yes, I feel (!) that the hardware > support may be less than for the average linux. But that is not > necessarily a bad thing: The hardware that is supported really is! My > feel (again...) is that Linux has more '90%'-ready hardware support, > while BSD has '100%'-ready. Lucky it's only your feeling, which has nothing to do with the reality. > The best you can do is to download and install it. I did that in May > 1997 and have never looked at another system since. In fact that was a Maybe you should. Just for sake of you OS education. -- mp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 10 1:46:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D4B37B401 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from yahoo.com (216-175-139-34.client.dsl.net [216.175.139.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D3A6943F1E for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from MarketingProducts0108@yahoo.com) From: (((Tools4Marketing))) To: Reply-To: Subject: 50% off All Lists: Publicity - Libraries - Bookstores - Film Producers - Art Galleries - Record Stores - Custom (more) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030110094643.D3A6943F1E@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:46:43 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ***LIMITED TIME SALE - ALL LISTS 50% OFF MUST MENTION SALE WHEN ORDERING*** -------------------------------------------------------------- UNLIMITED USE LISTS . . .DOWNLOAD WITHIN MINUTES. -------------------------------------------------------------- NEW LISTS: TRAVEL MEDIA, HUMANITIES PROFESSORS, SCIENCE PROFESSORS, SCIENCE CLUBS, PASTORS & CHURCHES, BIBLE COLLEGE & SEMINARY PROFESSORS, PET MEDIA, POLITICAL MEDIA, SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS, ART PUBLISHERS. -------------------------------------------------------------- IF WE DO NOT HAVE THE LIST YOU NEED, WE WILL COMPILE A CUSTOM LIST ACCORDING TO YOUR SPECIFICATIONS -------------------------------------------------------------- Call to place your order or for more information. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 10 8:28:19 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2921137B401 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.technaholics.com (12-218-133-12.client.mchsi.com [12.218.133.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090D643F1E for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chadalbert@mchsi.com) Received: from bedrock.hboc.com (hboc.com [139.177.224.128]) by www.technaholics.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id h0AGSDW04180; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:28:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chadalbert@mchsi.com) Message-ID: <005501c2b8c5$2db32b20$e8b41595@hboc.com> From: "Chad Albert" To: Cc: "James Hicks" Received: from [149.21.180.232] by bedrock.hboc.com via smtpd (for [12.218.133.12]) with SMTP; 10 Jan 2003 16:28:13 UT References: <3E1E5F82.3020306@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: freebsd curiosity] Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:27:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:52 PM paul beard said: > I have also read that a lot of > sysadmins are nervous of putting mission critical apps on a > enterprise linux > system and prefer to use freebsd. What is the problem that I'm > hearing that > linux has? Do you believe the berkeley system to have code that > has better > stability than the GNU systems? I look forward to your reply. Thanks Here is your answer. Plain and simple. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 10 11:17:39 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C24837B401 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CF043EB2 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:17:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8I00A3OIW6LY@thor.acuson.com> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:11:07 -0800 Received: from balderdash.acuson.com (dhcp-46-168.acuson.com [157.226.46.168]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2R98JHD; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:12:34 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:16:58 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: Re: [Fwd: freebsd curiosity] In-reply-to: <3E1E5F82.3020306@u.washington.edu> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: James Hicks Message-id: <200301101116.58265.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <3E1E5F82.3020306@u.washington.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday 09 January 2003 09:52 pm, paul beard wrote: > First of all, is freebsd a real UNIX? By that I'm asking whether or not > there is real UNIX code in it or is it a clone just like linux is? There are two ways to look at this. First, is FreeBSD eligible to use the UNIX trademark? No, we haven't put forth the thousands of dollars required to get approval from the Open Group. Second, does FreeBSD have a UNIX pedigree? Yes! FreeBSD is a direct descendent of 4.4BSD, a real UNIX. It may not be a "real" UNIX, but it is much closer to UNIX than any Linux ever will be. If you want a Free and Open Source operating system that's as close to "real" UNIX as possible, the BSD's are the way to go. > Second, what type of file system does it use? Does it have a journaling one > like ext3? Do UNIX systems require any kind of defrag? FreeBSD uses the UFS file system. It is a part of the operating system, and not a third party module like ext2/3, reiserfs, xfs, etc. It doesn't have a defrag, because it doesn't need one (neither do any of the Linux filesystems). As to journaling file systems, you need to ask yourself "do I need one?" A genuine purebred JFS is something the average user does not need.FreeBSD uses a different system called "softupdates", which does most of what you want with a JFS anyway. > I have also read that a lot of sysadmins are nervous of putting mission > critical apps on a enterprise linux system and prefer to use freebsd. What > is the problem that I'm hearing that linux has? "Mission critical application" is yet another buzzword. It means different things to different people. At some companies the mission critical application is Microsoft Outlook! So let's look at it from a different direction. Which OS would you trust to run your business? I would choose FreeBSD (or maybe NetBSD) over Linux any day. This isn't to say that Linux is bad, it's just that FreeBSD is better. Take a look at the uptimes as reported by NetCraft. Take a look at the number of exploits found for FreeBSD versus Linux. Also take a look at the design. FreeBSD is a single unified operating system with complete documentation. All the parts of the system are part of a the same project, and designed to work together. On the other hand Linux is a disparate collection of parts built by separate projects, and shoehorned together by a bunch of distributions. > I look forward to your reply. Thanks Don't trust me, trust yourself. Install and use FreeBSD for an extended period of time. It won't cost you a dime, and even if you end up preferring Linux, at least your UNIX education will have a bit more depth. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 11 12:26:25 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C15037C07E for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp3.balcab.ch (smtp3.balcab.ch [213.200.1.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FE543EB2 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fsantini@freesurf.ch) Received: from ATOIDUM (043.catv72.balcab.ch [213.207.72.43]) by smtp3.balcab.ch (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h0BKQ8xI000411; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:26:08 +0100 Message-Id: <200301112026.h0BKQ8xI000411@smtp3.balcab.ch> From: Fernando Santini To: , , Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:26:11 -0800 X-Mailer: Vivian Mail [327.0209010] Subject: Gründung einer BSD User Group in der Schweiz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hallo zusammen, ich wollte mal wissen, ob es schon ein Versuch gab eine Schweizer= BSD User Group zu gr=FCnden gab? Falls nein, wer w=E4re bereit mit mir eine zu gr=FCnden (muss ja= nicht gleich hochoffiziell sein =3D Eintrag ins HR, etc.)? Was denkt ihr, sollte der Verein tun, um BSD-Software (und im Speziellen die BSD-Betriebssysteme) zu f=F6rdern? Was sind eure Vorstellungen an einen Verein? Wenn sich jemand mit mir verabreden will um =FCber den Verein zu= reden, ich wohne in Basel. Ich hoffe auf rege Antworten an meine E-Mail! :) Gruess an alli! Fernando -- C# is for Music, Ada is for Software. http://www.ada-deutschland.de/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 11 16:21:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AA1637B401 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:21:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B9143F1E for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:21:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from moble.pittgoth.com ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h0C0L9Ap067517; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:21:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:21:32 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Fernando Santini Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=FCndung?= einer BSD User Group in der Schweiz Message-Id: <20030111192132.37bac16f.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <200301112026.h0BKQ8xI000411@smtp3.balcab.ch> References: <200301112026.h0BKQ8xI000411@smtp3.balcab.ch> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:26:11 -0800 Fernando Santini Hallo kann mein Freund, meines Wissens jedermann eine Bd-Benutzergruppe aufstellen. Ich w?rde mich empfehlen, um die Search Engines zu jeder m?glicher Information ?ber die lokale zu schauen. Danke! -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 11 19: 8: 9 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E407437B405 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout09.sul.t-online.com (mailout09.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8F243F1E for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:08:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18XYTk-00079j-02; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:08:04 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.80.239.202]) by fmrl06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 18XYTc-0YvlC4C; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:07:56 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0C385U37386; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:08:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0C37nm91742; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:07:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200301120307.h0C37nm91742@flip.jhs.private> To: Fernando Santini Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gr ndung einer BSD User Group in der Schweiz In-Reply-To: Message from Fernando Santini of "Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:26:11 PST." <200301112026.h0BKQ8xI000411@smtp3.balcab.ch> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:07:49 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Fernando The language of these international lists is English, not German ! ( Mann spricht English hier, nicht Deutsch !) For the rest of the world that doesnt speak German: Fernando wants to set up a Swiss BSD user group. As I run the web for the "Berkeley In Munich" http://www.berklix.org/bim/ in Munich, Bavaria, South Germany I'll put a URL from BIM to Fernando under http://www.berklix.org/bim/#neighbour He should of course also write (in German (or English)) to webmaster@www.de.freebsd.org for a similar pointer from there, (but there's no de.net & de.open to write to ). PS I dropped CC netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org As I didnt want to be guilty of cross posting :-) -------- Fernando Santini wrote: > Hallo zusammen, > > ich wollte mal wissen, ob es schon ein Versuch gab eine Schweizer BSD > User Group zu gründen gab? > > Falls nein, wer wäre bereit mit mir eine zu gründen (muss ja nicht > gleich hochoffiziell sein = Eintrag ins HR, etc.)? > > Was denkt ihr, sollte der Verein tun, um BSD-Software (und im > Speziellen die BSD-Betriebssysteme) zu fördern? Was sind eure > Vorstellungen an einen Verein? > > Wenn sich jemand mit mir verabreden will um über den Verein zu reden, > ich wohne in Basel. > > Ich hoffe auf rege Antworten an meine E-Mail! :) > > Gruess an alli! > Fernando > > -- > C# is for Music, Ada is for Software. > http://www.ada-deutschland.de/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Systems Engineer, Unix & Net Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. Munich BSD Conference: http://berklix.org/conf/ Spam phrases triggering deletion: http://berklix.com/jhs/mail/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message