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From: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>
Subject: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
To: freebsd-advocacy <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
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There's a guest column by Samba team leader John Terpstra on DesktopLinux.com. 
It talks about what is needed by Linux to win in the corporate environment.

<http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3610565657.html>

I checked it out to see what FreeBSD needed to do to win over the same 
consumers. Surprisingly enough, FreeBSD is already there. Ironically, reading 
through John's list, it seems that those Linux distros that claim to be the 
most "desktop ready" are those furthest from achieving that goal.

This article is a great argument in favor of FreeBSD. It's not about pretty 
installers and flashy desktops, it's about choice, stability, security, and 
making the user's life easier.

David Johnson

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Mon Feb  3 16:15: 4 2003
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Subject: BSDCon 2003 - Call for Papers
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The BSDCon 2003 Program Committee invites you to contribute original
and innovative papers on topics related to BSD-derived systems and
the Open Source world. Topics of interest include but are not limited
to:

        * Embedded BSD application development and deployment
        * Real world experiences using BSD systems
        * Using BSD in a mixed OS environment
        * Comparison with non-BSD operating systems; technical,
          practical, licensing (GPL vs. BSD)
        * Tracking open source development on non-BSD systems
        * BSD on the desktop
        * I/O subsystem and device driver development
        * SMP and kernel threads
        * Kernel enhancements
        * Internet and networking services
        * Security
        * Performance analysis and tuning
        * System administration
        * Future of BSD

For more information about the BSDCon 2003 Call for Papers, visit:
http://www.usenix.org/events/bsdcon03/cfp/

Submissions in the form of extended abstracts are due by April 1, 2003.
Be sure to review the extended abstract expectations before submitting.
Selection will be based on the quality of the written submission and
whether the work is of interest to the community. For detailed author
guidelines, including sample extended abstracts and final papers
visit:

http://www.usenix.org/events/bsdcon03/cfp/guidelines.html

We look forward to receiving your submissions!

Sincerely,

Gregory Neil Shapiro
BSDCon 2003 Program Chair




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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Mon Feb  3 18: 6:23 2003
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From: Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
To: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>,
	freebsd-advocacy <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Just thought I'd get a word in on this.

Now, I have been able to to convince a few, techincally competent
friends to try freebsd, with a variety of methods, from logical
debate to rating and raving to downright sabotage ('Hey you want to
install linux, here, try this *slips freebsd disc into tray*.
Although this only tends to work with *nix n00bs :) ), There was one
thing that made me reluctant to sneakily put FreeBSD on the machine
of a not really computer-knowledgeable person: The packages that came
with 5.0.

For a desktop machine to be easily useable, it needs software. The
5.0 iso was quite lacking in this department. No openoffice for one.
I know that there are good reasons for packages not going on disc 1,
but most users do not have the resources (time, bandwidth, diskspace)
to install incredibly useful software like this. It would also give
the first impressions of being 'useless' and 'too much hassle' if a
usable desktop could not be installed within a reasonable about of
time.

I have wanted to roll out my own release for a while, with my own
package selection so I can give to friends and minions, but not
having a freebsd source repository is a hindrance. (Should not be
problem once the DVD comes out)

But on the plus side Gnome2 with X was a breeze to get up and
running. Just doing an 'X -configure' seemed to generate a config
file that only needed to have the DefaultDepth set to 16 rather than
the default 8.

So in summary, I like to say: The OS is capable of making a good
desktop, but the minute it starts to ship with good packages, we're
talking.






--- Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> wrote:
> There's a guest column by Samba team leader John Terpstra on
> DesktopLinux.com. 
> It talks about what is needed by Linux to win in the corporate
> environment.
> 
> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3610565657.html>
> 
> I checked it out to see what FreeBSD needed to do to win over the
> same 
> consumers. Surprisingly enough, FreeBSD is already there.
> Ironically, reading 
> through John's list, it seems that those Linux distros that claim
> to be the 
> most "desktop ready" are those furthest from achieving that goal.
> 
> This article is a great argument in favor of FreeBSD. It's not
> about pretty 
> installers and flashy desktops, it's about choice, stability,
> security, and 
> making the user's life easier.
> 
> David Johnson
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Mon Feb  3 18:25: 5 2003
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From: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
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On Monday 03 February 2003 06:06 pm, Haikal Saadh wrote:

> So in summary, I like to say: The OS is capable of making a good
> desktop, but the minute it starts to ship with good packages, we're
> talking.

Hmmm, I wonder how Windows succeeded then. I understand your point, but the 
lack of additional third party software on the install CD hasn't hindered 
Microsoft any. Is this just a matter of having to be twice as good as Windows 
to get half the attention?

Maybe someone could make a "Desktop FreeBSD" CD, with various useful and 
popular packages for the desktop user. Sort of one CD version of the Toolkit 
geared towards desktop users.

David Johnson

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Mon Feb  3 18:56:47 2003
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Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
From: Peter Kieser <pfak@telus.net>
To: Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com>
Cc: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>,
	freebsd-advocacy <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
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I believe that FreeBSD is MUCH more ready for the desktop then any other
operating system that I can think of, it is stable and fast, even on
older hardware. Linux seems slow and sluggish on my computers, but
FreeBSD is nice and breazy.

Also, once setup. It can look nice, either with KDE or GNOME2. Someone
needs to really get up the energy and make a Desktop BSD Distro, all
Linux seems to be is for the desktop, well the sleek and fast BSD has
absolutley nothing in the market.

If you have the right programs installed, FreeBSD makes a great desktop
for the home user, business, and for your old grandma.

http://rage.trono.org/~peter/snapshots/ contains some screenshots of
FreeBSD in action, and how slick you can make BSD feel on the desktop. I
am running KDE 3.1 with XFree86 4.0.3.

I used `XFree86 -configure` to setup my XFree86, I found this much
easier then the menus that were provided, if only I had known about this
when I first tried installing FreeBSD on the destkop, I would've been
using it for 3 years, instead of just 3 months.

Put it this way, FreeBSD is a good OS for a server and a desktop, and
out-performs it's job on both.

On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 18:06, Haikal Saadh wrote:
> For a desktop machine to be easily useable, it needs software. The
> 5.0 iso was quite lacking in this department. No openoffice for one.
> I know that there are good reasons for packages not going on disc 1,
> but most users do not have the resources (time, bandwidth, diskspace)
> to install incredibly useful software like this. It would also give
> the first impressions of being 'useless' and 'too much hassle' if a
> usable desktop could not be installed within a reasonable about of
> time.

-- 
Peter Kieser
pfak@telus.net

()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\                        - against microsoft attachments


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Mon Feb  3 19: 4: 0 2003
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From: Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
To: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>,
	freebsd-advocacy <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
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--- Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> wrote:
> On Monday 03 February 2003 06:06 pm, Haikal Saadh wrote:
> 
> > So in summary, I like to say: The OS is capable of making a good
> > desktop, but the minute it starts to ship with good packages,
> we're
> > talking.
> 
> Hmmm, I wonder how Windows succeeded then. I understand your point,
> but the 
> lack of additional third party software on the install CD hasn't
> hindered 
> Microsoft any. Is this just a matter of having to be twice as good
> as Windows 
> to get half the attention?
> 

Microsoft markets windows as a platform on which to run other
applications, which are easily available, and easily installed. Vast
majority of software comes on a CD which is installed by just double
clicking an installer and all is well.

FreeBSD is also a platform on which to run other apps, but
availabilty, or rather access to them is beyond the means of most
people. Granted, to those with fast, unlimited connections,
everything is a 'make install' (providing you have enough diskspace
OO.org, for instance, claims to need 6G to compile) or a pkg_add
away. Life is also further complicated by the fact I may not have the
same versions of the same dependencies, and may not have the same
snapshot of the ports tree installed by my friends, which make
sharing stuff harder. Worst case scenario would be I tar up my entire
ports tree distfiles and all, which I update month or two, and burn
it and palm it off, but   this is not a real elegant solution.

As for FreeBSD having to be twice as good, I think we have to be.
Windows is firmly entrenched in the minds of the masses, and people
in general are reluctant to change, to explore outside their comfort
zone. Most people don't have a spare machine to chuck FreeBSD on and
give it a whirl, to see if they like. If FreeBSD cannot provide the
same or better user experience as what they are accustumed to out of
the box, they will slip back to windows.  Like I said, first
impressions count.

> Maybe someone could make a "Desktop FreeBSD" CD, with various
> useful and 
> popular packages for the desktop user. Sort of one CD version of
> the Toolkit 
> geared towards desktop users.
>

That would be wonderful. A CD with packages for gnome2/kde,
evolution, OO.o, gimp, mozilla, and the lot in x11/gnome-fifth-toe, a
few games, media players and anything else will go a *long* way to
making it that  much easier for us to shove it down the throats of
the masses :)


As an aside, freebsd a firewall/proxy has been quite easily to sell.
IPFilter, squid, dhcpd and caching dns is a breeze to set up with
FreeBSD. I set one up in about an hour, and the response was 'Wow, is
that it?' The face that it works silently, unattended, without
crashing, unlike wingate or other MS platform equivalent goes a long
way in reinforcing the claim that FreeBSD is a 'rock solid' OS.

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Tue Feb  4  1:46:13 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:43:37 +0000
From: Scott Mitchell <scott.mitchell@mail.com>
To: Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com>
Cc: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>,
	freebsd-advocacy <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
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On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 06:06:19PM -0800, Haikal Saadh wrote:
> Just thought I'd get a word in on this.
> 
> Now, I have been able to to convince a few, techincally competent
> friends to try freebsd, with a variety of methods, from logical
> debate to rating and raving to downright sabotage ('Hey you want to
> install linux, here, try this *slips freebsd disc into tray*.
> Although this only tends to work with *nix n00bs :) ), There was one
> thing that made me reluctant to sneakily put FreeBSD on the machine
> of a not really computer-knowledgeable person: The packages that came
> with 5.0.

Forgive me if I've missed something jumping into this thread so late, but
why were you thinking that 5.0 would be good for a not really computer
knowledgeable person?  Surely 4.7, which is rock-solid stable and comes on
a nice 4-CD set with all the packages you could wish for, would have been a
better choice?  5.0 may be a release now, but it's not something I'd
suggest giving to newbies in its present state.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth...

	Scott

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Tue Feb  4  2:55:32 2003
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From: Haikal Saadh <wyldephyre2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
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--- Scott Mitchell <scott.mitchell@mail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 06:06:19PM -0800, Haikal Saadh wrote:
> > Just thought I'd get a word in on this.
> > 
> > Now, I have been able to to convince a few, techincally competent
> > friends to try freebsd, with a variety of methods, from logical
> > debate to rating and raving to downright sabotage ('Hey you want
> to
> > install linux, here, try this *slips freebsd disc into tray*.
> > Although this only tends to work with *nix n00bs :) ), There was
> one
> > thing that made me reluctant to sneakily put FreeBSD on the
> machine
> > of a not really computer-knowledgeable person: The packages that
> came
> > with 5.0.
> 
> Forgive me if I've missed something jumping into this thread so
> late, but
> why were you thinking that 5.0 would be good for a not really
> computer
> knowledgeable person?  Surely 4.7, which is rock-solid stable and
> comes on
> a nice 4-CD set with all the packages you could wish for, would
> have been a
> better choice?  5.0 may be a release now, but it's not something
> I'd
> suggest giving to newbies in its present state.
> 

Point. New release fever I guess. I just said 5.0 because that was
the ISO I had. I'm starting to thing I did jump the gun, though (with
5.0), what with the adduser bugs and all (Just found that I out
because I just tried to login as myself for the first time).

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5  5:54:26 2003
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It looks like a frenzy in the -advocacy list.  It appears that many 
people want to take on a leadership type role - but not everyone can do 
that.

Please, let's decide on a leader for the various projects, and let them 
organize and make sure decisions get made that best benefit FreeBSD as a 
project.

I've registered bsdevents.org/com, and many of those who said "yea, 
register it!" are now saying "pfft, why reinvent the wheel, just use 
what we already have".  Now, I enjoy the enthusiasm, but come on 
everyone, lets not rush into anything just because we are excited.

For those who have volunteered to complete things on the To Do list, 
let's decide on due dates.  If you don't complete it by that date, then 
we need to know why, and if you need more help to complete the task.

It doesn't matter where the information is hosted.  No one cares. I 
personally think it should be a .org, and also feel there should be NO 
ADVERTISING whatsoever on the site - at all.  No "hosted by.." or anything.

Who is willing to take a leadership role in this, and guide the rest to 
goals?  Let me remind those who would like to, that this could be a 
somewhat time consuming task.

Eric


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5  5:54:27 2003
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It looks like a frenzy in the -advocacy list.  It appears that many 
people want to take on a leadership type role - but not everyone can do 
that.

Please, let's decide on a leader for the various projects, and let them 
organize and make sure decisions get made that best benefit FreeBSD as a 
project.

I've registered bsdevents.org/com, and many of those who said "yea, 
register it!" are now saying "pfft, why reinvent the wheel, just use 
what we already have".  Now, I enjoy the enthusiasm, but come on 
everyone, lets not rush into anything just because we are excited.

For those who have volunteered to complete things on the To Do list, 
let's decide on due dates.  If you don't complete it by that date, then 
we need to know why, and if you need more help to complete the task.

It doesn't matter where the information is hosted.  No one cares. I 
personally think it should be a .org, and also feel there should be NO 
ADVERTISING whatsoever on the site - at all.  No "hosted by.." or anything.

Who is willing to take a leadership role in this, and guide the rest to 
goals?  Let me remind those who would like to, that this could be a 
somewhat time consuming task.

Eric


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5  5:57:20 2003
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Anyone still interested in this?  I know a few people said "Yea, we need 
it", and I offered to register bsdevents.org and host it, but I didn't 
see any sign of volunteers for it..

Eric

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5  6: 0:34 2003
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Willie Viljoen wrote:
> In the excitement of setting up a project, it seems Stacy and I have managed 
> to steal it inadvertantly from Peter Kieser. Our sincerest apologies to Peter 
> for the offence, we hope that we can mend some fences and possibly join 
> forces with him.
[..chomp..]

Wow.. One second I'm begging people to help with bsdevents.org, and the 
next people are taking hostages to work on projects..  I wish all 
projects went like this.

So, is this only for general advocacy, for "to do" items, events, etc? 
Which one?  All of them?  Should I NOT register bsdevents.org? (sheesh, 
whic IS IT?! :))

I can also offer www/dns/etc for the project if anyone still needs it.

Eric




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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5  6: 0:45 2003
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	Rainer Duffner <rainer@ultra-secure.de>,
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Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> 
> 
> It's not quite what you want .. but ..  There's an all 3 BSDs leaflet at 
> 	http://berklix.org/bim/leaflet/
> It's in German but, before you think `useless for Canada',
> I guess a lot of the work in a leaflet is deciding on format & content
> & tools & getting Makefile right etc, so you may like to take a
> quick look. BSD buzzwords/ acronyms are the same anyway.
> 
[..snip..]
> If you really want an English version of our leaflet for use this
> next weekend, I could try to squeeze time this week, & do an English
> translation by Fri., (I'm English, but been in Germany a long time)

Regardless if this is done before this weekend or not, I think it would 
be great to have in English for the BSD's anyway.

Eric


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From: Christian Brueffer <chris@unixpages.org>
To: Eric Anderson <anderson@centtech.com>
Cc: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>,
	"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org>, advocacy@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: BSD Events Calendar
Message-ID: <20030205205912.GA1153@unixpages.org>
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On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 09:17:03AM -0600, Eric Anderson wrote:
> Anyone still interested in this?  I know a few people said "Yea, we need=
=20
> it", and I offered to register bsdevents.org and host it, but I didn't=20
> see any sign of volunteers for it..
>=20
> Eric
>=20

Yes, I'm still interested.  Uni is keeping me busy at the moment, that's
all :-)

- Christian

--=20
Christian Brueffer	chris@unixpages.org	brueffer@FreeBSD.org
GPG Key:	 http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc
GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B  B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5 13:16:54 2003
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To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: PR vs. PA, Public Relations vs. Public Affairs?
From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen)
Date: 05 Feb 2003 13:15:30 -0800
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I've noticed some problems with the use of "Public Relations" because
"PR" conflicts with FreeBSD's Problem Report "PR" which has caused the
creation of the "PubRel" eye-sore.

You-all might consider using "Public Affairs", like I noticed NASA using
last weekend.  "PA" seems like an OK initialism (except maybe for
children in Pennsylvania :).

Or maybe just "publicity" as in "The [FreeBSD] Publicity Project" or
"bsdpublicity.org".

Just some ideas, in case it isn't too late to avoid bad "PubRel". :-)

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5 13:51:52 2003
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5 14:30:37 2003
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From: "Curt Micol" <asenchi@asenchi.com>
To: "Eric Anderson" <anderson@centtech.com>,
	"Willie Viljoen" <will@unfoldings.net>
Cc: <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>, "Peter Kieser" <pfak@telus.net>,
	"Stacy Olivas" <olivas@digiflux.org>
Subject: RE: Project to improve FreeBSD PR
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:29:36 -0500
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I am interested in anything I can do to help this...

THX
Curt

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Eric Anderson
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:27 AM
To: Willie Viljoen
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Peter Kieser; Stacy Olivas
Subject: Re: Project to improve FreeBSD PR


Willie Viljoen wrote:
> In the excitement of setting up a project, it seems Stacy and I have
managed
> to steal it inadvertantly from Peter Kieser. Our sincerest apologies to
Peter
> for the offence, we hope that we can mend some fences and possibly join
> forces with him.
[..chomp..]

Wow.. One second I'm begging people to help with bsdevents.org, and the
next people are taking hostages to work on projects..  I wish all
projects went like this.

So, is this only for general advocacy, for "to do" items, events, etc?
Which one?  All of them?  Should I NOT register bsdevents.org? (sheesh,
whic IS IT?! :))

I can also offer www/dns/etc for the project if anyone still needs it.

Eric




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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5 14:34:28 2003
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	"Dan Langille" <dan@langille.org>
Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org>, <advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: BSD Events Calendar
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Yes, anything I can do to help.

CUrt

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Eric Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:17 AM
To: Dan Langille
Cc: Marc G. Fournier; advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: BSD Events Calendar


Anyone still interested in this?  I know a few people said "Yea, we need 
it", and I offered to register bsdevents.org and host it, but I didn't 
see any sign of volunteers for it..

Eric

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Wed Feb  5 20:42:22 2003
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Thu Feb  6 17:16: 2 2003
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equity loan or debt consolidati<!ovx>on loan, let MortgageTimes Broker or a Lender 
show you how to find a loan that's right for you! </DIV>
<DIV align=center><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">Click here for the 
website.</A></DIV><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 align=center border=0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD vAlign=top><B>Our product offerings include: </B>
      <UL>
        <LI>First mortgages (fixed and variable) 
        <LI>Equity lines of credit 
        <LI>Second Mortgages 
        <LI><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">Go there now!</A> </LI></UL></TD>
    <TD vAlign=top><B>Our services include: </B>
      <UL>
        <LI>New mortgages 
        <LI>Home equity loans 
        <LI>Refinances 
        <LI>Debt consolidation loans </LI></UL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE 
style="BORDER-RIGHT: red solid; BORDER-TOP: red solid; BORDER-LEFT: red solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: red solid" 
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 align=center border=0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD align=middle>Places are limited to keep quality HI<!vjvq>GH and rates LOW, so 
      don't delay.</TD></TR>
  <TR>
    <TD align=middle><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">Following this 
      link will change your financial future!</A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
<DIV align=center>Mortg<!ewf>ageTimes goal is to provide, personali<!hppmson>zed service with 
the fastest loan process at the lowest cost to you. <BR><BR>MortgageTimes is 
available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.<BR>We offer full-service mortgage 
loans, providing fast, effi<!mcod>cient service.</DIV><BR>
<HR>
</BODY></HTML>


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Thu Feb  6 20:17:34 2003
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From: Mikhail Teterin <mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com>
To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org
Subject: BSD's reliable networking (Re: High-latency/long-distance IP stack)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:16:40 -0500
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References: <20030205233916.6156C2A89E@canning.wemm.org> <20030206022854.G40993@12-234-22-23.pyvrag.nggov.pbz> <15939.36.855969.496240@emerger.yogotech.com>
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A success story to share. My significant other's grandfather, who lives
one floor below us in the same appartment building, was (after I set
things up for him) using our DSL connection to play chess online, e-mail
a few friends, and read news.

The chess software was for Windows, so his OS had to be Windows 98 (on
an old Pentium @75MHz). The connection between him and us had to be
wireless (802.11b) -- you can't run cables through the stairwell.

The setup worked most of the time, but sometimes the connections were
stopping. Sometimes realligning the antenna would help, but we did not
believe, anything more could be done -- the walls and the ceiling are
concrete and brick after all.

A newer machine (Xeon @400MHz) became available and I decided to upgrade
him. Since I also found out, there are Unix programs, that work with his
chessclub.com, I installed FreeBSD. I was worried, the "barely-there"
wireless connection will give me more headache, because we will not be
using "the official" drivers for his Orinoco card, but, in fact, the
connection seems flawless.

You have to run ping to notice the occasional packet drops -- at about
the same rate as before -- but the upper network layers still work --
there are no annoying timeouts or connection drops (even NFS works
reliably), he did not have to climb up the chair to reajust the antenna
since...

If it is true, that Microsoft took the BSD network stack for their
shameful OS-wannabes, they did a really poor job...

His other two applications -- web-browser, and e-mail client -- are
also working fine. He was previously using Netscape-4.5 (the last 4.x
version, that had Russian translation). Konqueror and Kmail are his new
tools...

	-mi

P.S. If you were wondering, my ISP -- SpeakEasy.net -- is not against
connection sharing (or running a server, for that matter)... Switch at:
http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/29957 and I'll get a credit :-)


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Fri Feb  7  9:35:22 2003
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Subject: refinance now                                                   
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 22:01:33 -0500
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<STYLE type=text/css>BODY {
	FONT: 16px bold larger Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif
}
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	FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #0000ff; TEXT-DECORATION: none
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</STYLE>

<DIV align=center>
<H3>REFIN<!k>ANCE NOW at super low interest rates</H3></DIV>
<DIV align=center><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">MortgageTimes Broker 
and Lender Network</A> offers the lowest rates and best service in the 
industry.<BR><BR>Whether you are looking for a new mort<!ov>gage, refinance, home 
equity loan or debt consolidati<!xyse>on loan, let MortgageTimes Broker or a Lender 
show you how to find a loan that's right for you! </DIV>
<DIV align=center><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">Click here for the 
website.</A></DIV><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 align=center border=0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD vAlign=top><B>Our product offerings include: </B>
      <UL>
        <LI>First mortgages (fixed and variable) 
        <LI>Equity lines of credit 
        <LI>Second Mortgages 
        <LI><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">Go there now!</A> </LI></UL></TD>
    <TD vAlign=top><B>Our services include: </B>
      <UL>
        <LI>New mortgages 
        <LI>Home equity loans 
        <LI>Refinances 
        <LI>Debt consolidation loans </LI></UL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE 
style="BORDER-RIGHT: red solid; BORDER-TOP: red solid; BORDER-LEFT: red solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: red solid" 
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 align=center border=0>
  <TBODY>
  <TR>
    <TD align=middle>Places are limited to keep quality HI<!qvp>GH and rates LOW, so 
      don't delay.</TD></TR>
  <TR>
    <TD align=middle><A href="http://211.157.100.107/mortgage/Lead334/index.htm">Following this 
      link will change your financial future!</A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
<DIV align=center>Mortg<!Wcfpw>ageTimes goal is to provide, personali<!Rgvih>zed service with 
the fastest loan process at the lowest cost to you. <BR><BR>MortgageTimes is 
available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.<BR>We offer full-service mortgage 
loans, providing fast, effi<!lrcb>cient service.</DIV><BR>
<HR>
</BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Fri Feb  7 17:44:36 2003
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Subject: digital drug                                                                 
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 05:28:39 -0400
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<html>
<head>
<title>Vo<!jtci>odooM<!hsvy>achine.bz</title>
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</head>
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Fri Feb  7 17:59:32 2003
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Subject: 收入增加的方法
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8  2:28:14 2003
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Subject: Come check it out                                       
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8 10:20:44 2003
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From: "Stacy Olivas" <olivas@digiflux.org>
To: "'Gary W. Swearingen'" <swear@attbi.com>,
	<freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: PR vs. PA, Public Relations vs. Public Affairs?
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:20:29 +0100
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> I've noticed some problems with the use of "Public Relations" because
> "PR" conflicts with FreeBSD's Problem Report "PR" which has caused the
> creation of the "PubRel" eye-sore.
> 
> You-all might consider using "Public Affairs", like I noticed 
> NASA using
> last weekend.  "PA" seems like an OK initialism (except maybe for
> children in Pennsylvania :).
> 
> Or maybe just "publicity" as in "The [FreeBSD] Publicity Project" or
> "bsdpublicity.org".
> 
> Just some ideas, in case it isn't too late to avoid bad "PubRel". :-)
> 

Awww, gee.. You're no fun..  After all, isn't the first thing that
public relations types are supposed to do is coin new words that
make no sense ;)

-Stacy



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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8 11: 4:54 2003
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I recently fell into the thread of the past two weeks or so regarding 
the BSD public relations effort. I generally just lurk on the lists and 
offer help as needed. Ok in any event I recently attended the LinuxWorld 
thing here in NY and well it saddened greatly to find that bsdmall and 
netbsd were the only ones from our camp representing. Especially since 
5.0 was only release a few days prior. Therefore I thought to myself 
what can I do. I ended up spending a considerable amount of my day at 
various hardware manufacturers booths extolling the benefits of 
advantages of the BSD way.

That's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. I see some 
rumblings and a wave of movement here. I think that's a good thing. So 
the question that keeps poping up in the back of my mind is where are we 
now and where do we go from here?

I saw a suggestion for a calendar of events, and that's a good idea. How 
about speaking engadgements? Does anyone have a proclivity for public 
speaking? I beleive that O'Rielly has a call for papers and 
tutorials...maybe a few of us could right a good tutorial say deploying 
XYZ technology, and of course the system upon which we demonstrate the 
deployment would be a BSD. I think we can all agree the Michael and Dru 
are gifted authors if we ask really nicely maybe they'll offer to help.

I think that we have to start looking for these future oppurtunities. We 
should start preparing for next year's tradeshows now.

Another suggestion worth considering is adding interviews to sites like 
Daemon News and BSD Diary. Why not interview technology types or even 
CEOs who's comany rely on some sort of BSD. You see them all the time in 
the tech rags about Linux and even MySQL they usually go something 
like...I'm chatting with the Mark Johnson the CIO of XYZ Corp, who uses 
FreeBSD for all of their companies mail and web servers....

These are just some of the thought I've been having since the lw 
expo...I just have a feeling that it's BSD time.

Also the commotion started is worth patting yourselves on the 
back...I've read everything that has appeared on the list sine Jan 22, 
and all things aside I think Stacy has done a bang up job of if nothing 
else keeping the ball in play.



-- 
Cheers,
Mikel King
CIO/CTO
Optimized Computer Solutions, INC
39 West Fourteenth Street
Second Floor
New York, NY 10011
http://www.ocsny.com

+------------------------------------------+
You may like them. You will see. You may
like them in a tree. 
http://www.FreeBSD.org
http://www.OpenOffice.org
http://www.Mozilla.org
+------------------------------------------+
GOAL: Microsoft free in 2003
+------------------------------------------+



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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8 18: 2:15 2003
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From: "Jeremy C. Reed" <reed@reedmedia.net>
To: Mikel King <mikel.king@ocsny.com>
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[I cc'd an email I am not member of; I hope it doesn't bounce.]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Mikel King wrote:

> Daemon News and BSD Diary. Why not interview technology types or even
> CEOs who's comany rely on some sort of BSD. You see them all the time in
> the tech rags about Linux and even MySQL they usually go something
> like...I'm chatting with the Mark Johnson the CIO of XYZ Corp, who uses
> FreeBSD for all of their companies mail and web servers....

I'd be glad to write some of these articles.

Please suggest the companies/individuals you'd like me to interview and
why.  And any questions/topics you'd be interested in me covering.

(I write BSD articles every month for Seattle area print magazine(s), in
addition to the BSD-related articles online.)

   Jeremy C. Reed
   http://bsd.reedmedia.net/

p.s. By the way, today, I spoke about using ports/pkgsrc system for the
Greater Seattle Linux Users Group -- maybe 50+ people.


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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8 19: 4:52 2003
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:04:44 +0200
From: Alexandr Kovalenko <never@nevermind.kiev.ua>
To: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 PR is not very good...
Message-ID: <20030209030444.GA78614@nevermind.kiev.ua>
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Hello, Michael Lucas!

On Sat, Jan 25, 2003 at 09:17:30PM -0500, you wrote:

> [[cc's trimmed, this is a general reply not directed at anyone in
> particular]]
> 
> Believe it or else, this was discussed not too long ago.  A press
> release was written for 5.0, and is available
> 
> http://www.freebsd.org/news/press-rel-7.html

Looks good for me. I'd suggest also making authorized translations to as
many languages as possible to help it spread.

> Sadly, getting this press release onto newswire would cost a sum of
> money we just don't have, and contacting journalists directly is very
> time-consuming.  But a few of us with @freebsd.org addresses are
> working on it.
> 
> There was much discussion of an advocacy project not too long ago,
> just a couple months in fact.  We went so far as to write a to-do
> list, which should still be in the archives.
> 
> What happened?
> 
> *Nothing.*

[dd]

> Please, if you want to help, grab that to-do list and get to work!

Yes, sir.

I've already done some contribution to FreeBSD project by setting up 2
dedicated mirrors here in .ua for mirrors and other FreeBSD-related
activities, founded UAFUG, which is now, as I can see exUSSR FUG. I'm
also advocating FreeBSD everywhere applicable. For example, I've made
small self-written press-release (may be it should be called announce)
in local tech usenet group to announce 5.0-R. I'm trying to work with
local MySQL representative to help them adopt FreeBSD for their
out-of-box solutions based on FreeBSD and MySQL. I've advocated them KSE
and SMPng (as you know -- the biggest problem for MySQL guys in FreeBSD
(that's why it is not a recommended platform for MySQL) is threads).
They liked what they've seen -- improvements towards to 'exactly what
they need' model.

Unfortunately, I can't help much in english-speaking PR, as you can see,
but I can successfully translate and write reviews/articles/etc in
russian and/or ukrainian.


P.S. Sorry for some confusing style, I hope you will understand, what I
wanted to say.

P.P.S. It's not self-advertizing, just wanted that you know that not
only @FreeBSD.org people care and _do_ FreeBSD advocacy.

-- 
NEVE-RIPE, will build world for food
Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group
http://uafug.org.ua/

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8 19:27:16 2003
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:26:46 +0200
From: Alexandr Kovalenko <never@nevermind.kiev.ua>
To: Stacy Olivas <olivas@digiflux.org>
Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org
Subject: Re: Who are we missing here?
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Hello, Stacy Olivas!

On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 06:39:22AM +0100, you wrote:

> We'll try this again:
> 
> Here are all the people who have expressed interest in the advocacy project:
> 
> Peter Keiser
> Eric Anderson
> Josef El-Rayes
> Willie Viljoen
> Anthony Chavez
> Linh Pham
> Dave Pimlott (as a tech POC in the UK)
> Daniel Gracia
> Giorgos Keramidas (gave positive feedback on PR submitted on new interest in
> advocacy)
> Gary W. Swearingen (good feedback on a few things that I left off the To Do
> 			 list and still haven't put on -- but I haven't forgotten
> 			  about yet!)
> Marc G. Fournier  (made a suggestion about the proposed PubRel team)
> Christian Brueffer (pointed out that we shouldn't forget the rest of the
> *BSD family)
> Joshua Steele
> 
> Who are we missing?  I haven't added Terry or Michael..  Who else?

I'm willing to help translating advocacy articles/etc to
russian/ukrainian and to cooperate with local (.ua) mass media.

-- 
NEVE-RIPE, will build world for food
Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group
http://uafug.org.ua/

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From owner-freebsd-advocacy  Sat Feb  8 19:32:46 2003
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:32:41 +0200
From: Alexandr Kovalenko <never@nevermind.kiev.ua>
To: Johnson David <DavidJohnson@Siemens.com>
Cc: freebsd-advocacy <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Is FreeBSD Ready for the Desktop?
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Hello, Johnson David!

On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 01:14:41PM -0800, you wrote:

> There's a guest column by Samba team leader John Terpstra on DesktopLinux.com. 
> It talks about what is needed by Linux to win in the corporate environment.
> 
> <http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3610565657.html>
> 
> I checked it out to see what FreeBSD needed to do to win over the same 
> consumers. Surprisingly enough, FreeBSD is already there. Ironically, reading 
> through John's list, it seems that those Linux distros that claim to be the 
> most "desktop ready" are those furthest from achieving that goal.
> 
> This article is a great argument in favor of FreeBSD. It's not about pretty 
> installers and flashy desktops, it's about choice, stability, security, and 
> making the user's life easier.

Anyway we should not forget about bells and whistles too. For example,
maybe FreeBSD Foundation can find money to fund development of
ports/sysutils/barry (which is 'bells-and-whistles' KDE frontend for
ports/packages manipulations), and similar tool for GNOME?

-- 
NEVE-RIPE, will build world for food
Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group
http://uafug.org.ua/

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On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 05:26:46AM +0200, Alexandr Kovalenko <never@nevermi=
nd.kiev.ua> wrote:
> I'm willing to help translating advocacy articles/etc to
> russian/ukrainian and to cooperate with local (.ua) mass media.

Mr. Kovalenko:

If you're interested in helping with the bsdevents effort, please join
the mailing list at:

https://secure.daemonnews.org/mailman/listinfo/bsd-advocacy

Thanks.

--=20
Anthony Chavez                             http://www.anthonychavez.org/
mailto:acc@anthonychavez.org         jabber:acc@jabber.anthonychavez.org

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