From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 14 12:33:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B034037B401 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ac-net.at (secure.ac-net.at [212.24.125.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C2643FA3 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 12:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shammer@daemon.li) Received: from localhost (server.ac-net.at [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ac-net.at (AC-net Mailserver v1.3a) with ESMTP id BFBC63F91 for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:33:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from daemon.li (dsl-237-139.utaonline.at [212.152.237.139]) by mail.ac-net.at (AC-net Mailserver v1.3a) with SMTP id CE1C03F4D for ; Wed, 14 May 2003 19:33:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 2280 invoked from network); 14 May 2003 19:34:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO daemon.li) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 May 2003 19:34:54 -0000 Received: (from shammer@localhost) by daemon.li (8.12.6/8.12.7/Submit) id h4EJYrT6002278; Wed, 14 May 2003 21:34:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from shammer) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:34:52 +0200 From: Josef El-Rayes To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030514193452.GA2249@daemon.li> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 with AC-networks extensions Subject: new freebsd t-shirt X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:33:33 -0000 Hi! the austrian bsd user group [bugat] did a shirt with beastie wearing leathertrouser and a fork for working with hay (austrian style daemon). follow the link to see a image of the [shirt]. if you are interested in getting a "copy" of the shirt, just email me, i will handle your request. greets, josef [bugat] http://www.bugat.at [link] http://www.kishalmi.net/bugat/list.php [or] http://www.kishalmi.net/bugat/ -- www: http://www.daemon.li nic-hdl: JER1080312-NICAT FreeBSD PortMaintainer "Make World - Not War!" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 15 11:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9414837B404; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B7D43F93; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown[12.242.158.67]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with ESMTP id <20030515184200051000vmcee>; Thu, 15 May 2003 18:42:00 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h4FIi2Kc022694; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:44:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id h4FIhvkJ022693; Thu, 15 May 2003 11:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: dyson@iquest.net References: <3EC2FB53.67559AB6@bellatlantic.net> <20030515025309.GA28371@mooseriver.com> <3EC32599.F8C211EE@iquest.net> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 15 May 2003 11:43:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: <3EC32599.F8C211EE@iquest.net> Message-ID: Lines: 54 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a public relations opportunity for BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:42:04 -0000 I've moved the CC from hackers@ to advocacy@. John Dyson writes: > I tend to agree that 'dancing' on someone elses misfortune or > 'grave' isn't a good thing. I consider it on a case-by-case basis, but Linux is "family", and we (sic -- there's no "will" here) need them in OUR misfortune. > BSD (esp FreeBSD) shouldn't be an OS > that is based upon hatred of Microsoft, Linux, Commercial software > or GPLed software. Those are the only reasons I support FreeBSD, and I think the BSDs would do well to keep digging at that corner of their niches too, especially in the embedded field (mostly NetBSD now?). > It is best to avoid considering 'Microsoft', 'commercial software' > or other such things as the 'enemy.' Maybe it's best to hide such considerations, but I very much consider M$ to have been the enemy of technological advancement over the last 20 years, which has cost the world untold time and dollars. The fact that they have done more for the bulk of computer users than other OS developers doesn't excuse M$, since we should require much more from those to whom much more has been given (eg, by the foolishness of IBM). (I actually blame past M$ users more than M$, but M$ is a better foe. :) (As I observe the 1984-ish down-side to the advancement of computing in the wrong hands, I'm caring less about the damage done by M$, but old emotions die hard.) It's a quite valid to use the failings of your competitors to win people away from them, if done right (and better than I'm capable of). I dare say most M$ hatred is among M$ users, and reminding them of it is apt to encourage some to try something else. The M$ lovers are a lost cause anyway; no sense keeping them happy. I recently read one saying their shop won't hire anyone who has Unix in their background. Sorry, but we do have (and are) enemies. It will take a lot more than a few slightly better features for server use and administration than Linux, to keep the BSDs abreast of Linux in the battle with M$. Both are on rolls that the BSDs aren't, sad to say. The BSD's few better features are not enough to keep the niche from shrinking away. But I suspect that the BSD's virtual offer to developers of one's own little niche to enjoy digging in, will keep them around a long while, but shrinking as Linux gets better faster, unless it becomes too hard to keep up at all (in either kernel features or application porting). Then, the only part of the niche will be for embedded software users who don't want to derive from copylefted software (if really free software is still around). Keeping BSD-like licensing an important aspect of the BSD niche should be an important part of the BSD survival mechanism. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 16 20:07:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4885137B401 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 20:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13407.mail.yahoo.com (web13407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DF40C43F85 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 20:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030517030711.55891.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.197.199] by web13407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 May 2003 04:07:11 BST Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 04:07:11 +0100 (BST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: a public relations opportunity for BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 03:07:12 -0000 To many people (Including Brian Kernighan), the SCO vs IBM case brought old memories from the BSD vs UNIX case. In the later case linux emerged so I tend to agree there is nothing to be happy about but I it is true that there is a good good PR opportunity there. Some miscellaneous thoughts I had... What will be the upgrade path for SCO's Linux users? What will IBM use to complete AIX now that their UNIX license will be revoked? For now I think both companies will run far away from free software, but FreeBSD is a viable option on both cases and if we had more people pointing our fundamental advantages we could see BSD growing even more. just my $0.02 Pedro. __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus For a better Internet experience http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 16 22:01:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8C337B401 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 22:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF14B43FA3 for ; Fri, 16 May 2003 22:01:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfjpt.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.207.61] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19Gtob-0004gH-00; Fri, 16 May 2003 22:01:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3EC5C1C6.39C56528@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:59:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" References: <20030517030711.55891.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4210eec0f03e2c39ac57775e085922230548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: a public relations opportunity for BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 05:01:03 -0000 "Pedro F. Giffuni" wrote: > Some miscellaneous thoughts I had... What will be the upgrade > path for SCO's Linux users? What will IBM use to complete AIX > now that their UNIX license will be revoked? For now I think > both companies will run far away from free software, but FreeBSD > is a viable option on both cases and if we had more people > pointing our fundamental advantages we could see BSD growing > even more. IBM generates more patents per year than all other applicants combined. If you don't believe that IBM can bend SCO over any time they want, you are sadly mistaken. IBM could put SCO totally out of business any time they wanted. Just like they could put everyone else in the U.S. and Japan (the only countries to honor softtware patents) out of business, any time they wanted to do so. If IBM loses access to UNIX, so will SCO. Count on it. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 17 07:13:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A11E37B401 for ; Sat, 17 May 2003 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tower.berklix.org (bsd.bsn.com [194.221.32.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB5F643FB1 for ; Sat, 17 May 2003 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h4HEDor6032935 for ; Sat, 17 May 2003 16:13:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.org) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h4HEADoe032933; Sat, 17 May 2003 16:10:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs) Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 16:10:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200305171410.h4HEADoe032933@tower.berklix.org> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/vsl/ X-Copyright: Don't publicly archive, without obfuscating email addresses. Fcc: sent-mail Subject: SCO sue IBM re Linux Sys V Copyright. Maybe patent danger later? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:13:48 -0000 Santa Cruz Organisation are sueing IBM Linux & suspending their own (not IBM's) Linux operations, claiming intellectual property infringement (of System V base.), so said mailed their distributor mail list & their http://www.sco.com/scosource/letter_to_linux_customers.htm Tarnishing Linux will help Microsoft discourage people from Unix. A Software Patent Danger Later ? A while back SCO announced intention to vigorously protect all their supposed rights, inc. not just copyright but software patents I recall. Software patents are a danger to the public source community, inc. all of BSD Linux Mach Minix FreeDOS FSF/Hurd etc, http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/txt/patents.html Worst nightmare is Microsoft (or some parasite that may not even write code) acquiring software patents, (either deliberately, or by accidentaly acquiring them while buying other companies), ... & later attacking Linux & BSD & all else. Who might SCO target next ? SCO is/ was a relatively big company in PC Unix software, & they've not been doing too well (AFAIR) for some time. The temptation to parasitise with patents may increase (& if not them maybe someone else). Do SCO have enough revenue generators to avoid temptation ? They tried adopting Linux to reduce software development costs (their own `Open Server' is IMO a `crock'). Their major asset, a senior SCO man admitted to me, was their customer list, but with customers knowing Caldera/SCO had all of OpenServer/Unixware/Linux available, it must have been difficult to support, & perhaps harder still, if perceived as a "Me Too" provider of Linux at a high price ? It'd be good to see BSD advocates who promote BSD at exhibitions etc, also providing anti software patent leaflets to visitors, to get a change in the law, to counter the mounting danger of future parasitism from ever increasing software patents. Disclaimer: Some of this is speculative (& some not). Research yourself. - Julian Stacey Freelance Internet Consultant & Systems Engineer, Muenchen. Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. Mail list help: http://www.berklix.org/robot/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 17 15:53:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE0737B401 for ; Sat, 17 May 2003 15:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from community6.interfree.it (community6.interfree.it [213.158.72.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CCE7543F75 for ; Sat, 17 May 2003 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: (qmail 19260 invoked from network); 17 May 2003 22:53:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO linux) (80.104.113.38) by mail.interfree.it with SMTP; 17 May 2003 22:53:37 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: ".VWV." To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 23:54:38 -0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <20030517030711.55891.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030517030711.55891.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200305172354.38223.victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it> Subject: Re: Re: a public relations opportunity for BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 22:53:40 -0000 On Saturday 17 May 2003 02:07, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > To many people (Including Brian Kernighan), the SCO vs IBM case > brought old memories from the BSD vs UNIX case. In the later > case linux emerged so I tend to agree there is nothing to be > happy about but I it is true that there is a good good PR > opportunity there. > > Some miscellaneous thoughts I had... What will be the upgrade > path for SCO's Linux users? What will IBM use to complete AIX > now that their UNIX license will be revoked? For now I think > both companies will run far away from free software, but FreeBSD > is a viable option on both cases and if we had more people > pointing our fundamental advantages we could see BSD growing > even more. > > just my $0.02 > > Pedro. > Hi. In my opinion, FreeBSD will remain the most orthodox unix ever, but used = only=20 by an =E9lite of perfectionists. I am proud and happy to loose my mind in= to=20 Amnesiac: I know behind it there is the work of the very best unix hands.= =20 What others do, it's none of our business. Live free - and perfectionist - or die VITTORI