From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 03:22:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B885837B401 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 03:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ac-net.at (secure.ac-net.at [212.24.125.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93CF43F93 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 03:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shammer@daemon.li) Received: from localhost (server.ac-net.at [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ac-net.at (AC-net Mailserver v1.3a) with ESMTP id C8C9B3F94 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:22:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from daemon.li (dsl-241-82.utaonline.at [212.152.241.82]) by mail.ac-net.at (AC-net Mailserver v1.3a) with SMTP id 2DE783F0B for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:22:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 474 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2003 10:23:16 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO daemon.li) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Jun 2003 10:23:16 -0000 Received: (from shammer@localhost) by daemon.li (8.12.6/8.12.7/Submit) id h5MANFRR000472 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:23:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from shammer) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:23:15 +0200 From: Josef El-Rayes To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030622102315.GA344@daemon.li> References: <007901c3385d$4c259030$c601a8c0@starfly> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007901c3385d$4c259030$c601a8c0@starfly> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 with AC-networks extensions Subject: Re: FreeBSD powered by images X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:22:57 -0000 Peter wrote: > As there aren't very many FreeBSD powered by images that go along with every > site. in my opinion this is a area where a lot of improvement can be done. (just look at the openbsd folks). > I have created one using the familiar BSD daemon with "Powered by" and > "Operating System". this looks nice and clean, i like it. you seem to be good with drawing/design - what i am not very gifted with - so i am wondering if you like to do a poster. i am looking for a person who creates poster layout (i think a vector graphic suits best for this purpose). just look at photos from bsd booths. openbsd posters are eyecatchers, than there are the toaster netbsd poster and what about freebsd? :( so perhaps you could help there, i would be happy if we could beautify the bsd booth on upcoming linuxtag in germany with some freebsd posters :) greets, josef -- www: http://www.daemon.li nic-hdl: JER1080312-NICAT FreeBSD PortMaintainer "Make World - Not War!" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 19:04:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4563937B401 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perlpimp.codersluts.net (adsl-33-174-6.asm.bellsouth.net [67.33.174.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D126043FA3 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:04:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sektie@codersluts.net) Received: from perlpimp.codersluts.net (sektie@localhost.codersluts.net [127.0.0.1])h5N332Aa084273; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:03:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sektie@codersluts.net) From: "sektie" To: "Peter" , Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:03:02 -0500 Message-Id: <20030623030248.M80508@codersluts.net> In-Reply-To: <007901c3385d$4c259030$c601a8c0@starfly> References: <007901c3385d$4c259030$c601a8c0@starfly> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.01 20030425 X-OriginatingIP: 66.223.56.212 (sektie) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: FreeBSD powered by images X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:04:03 -0000 http://www.freebsd.org/gifs/powerlogo.gif ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Peter" To: Sent: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:26:25 -0700 Subject: FreeBSD powered by images > As there aren't very many FreeBSD powered by images that go along > with every site. > > I have created one using the familiar BSD daemon with "Powered by" > and "Operating System". > > You can grab the PSD, GIF, PNG, and JPEG at > http://peterkieser.net/power_freebsd/. > > Cheers, > > -- > Peter Kieser > pfak@telus.net > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ------- End of Original Message ------- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 00:12:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD10637B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gascom.ru (mail.gascom.ru [217.17.160.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7935143F3F for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asa@gascom.ru) Received: (qmail 18718 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2003 06:58:37 -0000 Received: from asa.gascom.net.ru (HELO ?192.168.100.29?) (192.168.100.29) by mail.gascom.ru with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 06:58:37 -0000 From: Sergey Akifyev Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-/9lRXES3euFD1rF0+gAw" Organization: JSC Gascom Message-Id: <1056352321.48823.11.camel@asa.gascom.net.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 Date: 23 Jun 2003 11:12:01 +0400 cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD logo for GNOME X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:12:07 -0000 --=-/9lRXES3euFD1rF0+gAw Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, dear All! Yesterday I've made BSD daemon in SVG format. It's main purpose was to be printed on a T-shirt (I needed hi-res image), but maybe FreeBSD-GNOME can make some other use of it. The daemon is standard one (as on FreeBSD.org main page). Feel free to edit it (but please, don't remove 'made by', just make it totally transparent, or move under some object) URL: ftp://ftp.gascom.ru/pub/GNOME2/Bg/beastie.svg [I'm CC'ing advocacy@, because I think they may need such stuff] --=20 regards, Sergey Akifyev JSC Gascom PGP key available from: ftp://ftp.gascom.ru/pub/PGP-keys/asa.txt --=-/9lRXES3euFD1rF0+gAw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA+9qhBbu06QwmNwNsRAoMNAJ0TwNozsQsWevmR2Oi8u/+jr+UEBwCfcDTS WqzWvWfpdD3bW9ST1V91i8Y= =I6ml -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-/9lRXES3euFD1rF0+gAw-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 05:46:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5313837B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cninnmciexch1.crane.navy.mil (cninnmciexch1a.crane.navy.mil [164.227.12.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFC243FF9 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from friedrich_s@crane.navy.mil) Received: by cninnmciexch1.crane.navy.mil with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:46:06 -0500 Message-ID: <213CBBCE200DD6119CEF00B0D0D0D52E0C3E435C@cninnmciexch1.crane.navy.mil> From: Friedrich Steven E CONT CNIN To: 'Julian Stacey' , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:46:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" cc: "Ernst Winter \(Home\)" Subject: RE: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:46:17 -0000 Don't you mean MS Powerpoint? Steven Friedrich -----Original Message----- From: Julian Stacey [SMTP:jhs@berklix.org] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:54 PM To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: Ernst Winter (Home) Subject: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint Anyone thought of/ know of/ or want to create an "Intro to BSD" for Magicpoint ? For a quick sampling of this presentation manager: cd /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint ; make install ; rehash mgp -d -g 800x600 /usr/X11R6/share/doc/mgp/sample/sample.mgp PS next time some M$ addict says "I need MS Excel to do presentations" you might want to mention Magicpoint - Julian Stacey Freelance Internet Consultant & Systems Engineer, Muenchen. Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 07:49:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9CC37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B400343FB1 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:49:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0ao.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.88] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19USd2-0000Mu-00; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:49:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3EF712F8.81ED1358@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:47:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" References: <002201c33812$5b881e80$c601a8c0@starfly> <20030621123133.C41990@knight.ixsystems.net> <20030621202703.GB10127@over-yonder.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a409691686fa4254ec27d24c947372b4f8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org cc: Micha? Pasternak cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:49:19 -0000 "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 11:57:43PM +0200 I heard the voice of > Micha? Pasternak, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > Could you provide any details about that? I mean, why should it be so odd > > to provide secure WWW server ni less than 30 min. with Linux? > > Well, for starters, because you install Mandrake, then have to rebuild > Apache to get rid of the completely bizarro setup they splat on by > default ;) To abuse Alfred's joke on Vinum... Mandrake Linux comes from the universe where Spock has a beard... -- Terry From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 09:22:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBFD37B404 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7568243F3F for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from starfly ([209.121.11.113]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20030623162224.TQFW29835.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@starfly>; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:22:24 -0600 Message-ID: <001b01c339a3$d824aac0$c601a8c0@starfly> From: "Peter" To: "sektie" , References: <007901c3385d$4c259030$c601a8c0@starfly> <20030623030248.M80508@codersluts.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:23:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1193 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1193 Subject: Re: FreeBSD powered by images X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:22:25 -0000 I know I should ignore this troll.. but.. It's pretty obvious there is other "Powered by" logos, but there was none that filed the certian niche that I wanted. So I created one, the current ones dont work well on black backgrounds, this one does. -- Peter Kieser pfak@telus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "sektie" To: "Peter" ; Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:03 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD powered by images > > http://www.freebsd.org/gifs/powerlogo.gif > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > From: "Peter" > To: > Sent: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:26:25 -0700 > Subject: FreeBSD powered by images > > > As there aren't very many FreeBSD powered by images that go along > > with every site. > > > > I have created one using the familiar BSD daemon with "Powered by" > > and "Operating System". > > > > You can grab the PSD, GIF, PNG, and JPEG at > > http://peterkieser.net/power_freebsd/. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -- > > Peter Kieser > > pfak@telus.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ------- End of Original Message ------- > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 09:48:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D13E37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tower.berklix.org (bsd.bsn.com [194.221.32.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDE043F3F for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5NGjUr6042991; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:45:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.org) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h5NGjBNF042990; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:45:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:45:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Julian Stacey Message-Id: <200306231645.h5NGjBNF042990@tower.berklix.org> To: Friedrich Steven E CONT CNIN Fcc: sent-mail In-Reply-To: Message from Friedrich Steven E CONT CNIN <213CBBCE200DD6119CEF00B0D0D0D52E0C3E435C@cninnmciexch1.crane.navy.mil> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: "Ernst Winter \(Home\)" Subject: Re: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:48:21 -0000 > Don't you mean MS Powerpoint? Yes, thanks for the correction. I can never remember names for MS products, so I added a reminder table at the top of my http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/free/ It'd be a few mins well invested, if anyone tries: cd /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint ; make install; rehash mgp /usr/X11R6/share/doc/mgp/sample/sample.mgp vi_or_any_editor /usr/X11R6/share/doc/mgp/sample/sample.mgp Magicpoint wouldn't appeal to MS zombies scared of a keyboard to compose a presentation though. - Julian Stacey Freelance Systems Engineer, Unix & Net Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 10:16:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244CC37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B7443FCB for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HGY00HF82KPJQ@thor.acuson.com> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:03:45 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id JQ7NKWK3; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:05:01 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:15:43 -0700 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <3EF4567A.23525.2ACFD52E@localhost> To: Dan Langille , advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: <200306231015.44135.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <002201c33812$5b881e80$c601a8c0@starfly> <3EF4567A.23525.2ACFD52E@localhost> Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:16:25 -0000 On Saturday 21 June 2003 09:58 am, Dan Langille wrote: > It should also be comparing Windows XP, not Windows 2000. I don't > think we'd like it if they looking at FreeBSD 4.2... Win2K is still very widely used in the market segments where FreeBSD might be considered. Most of the points against Win2K also apply to WinXP, so maybe relabeling the column "Windows 2000/XP" is more appropriate. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 10:36:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC1237B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C296443FAF for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (electron.centtech.com [204.177.173.173]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5NHaM56069207; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:36:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3EF73A85.70007@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:36:05 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David References: <002201c33812$5b881e80$c601a8c0@starfly> <3EF4567A.23525.2ACFD52E@localhost> <200306231015.44135.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:36:30 -0000 Johnson David wrote: > On Saturday 21 June 2003 09:58 am, Dan Langille wrote: > > >>It should also be comparing Windows XP, not Windows 2000. I don't >>think we'd like it if they looking at FreeBSD 4.2... > > > Win2K is still very widely used in the market segments where FreeBSD > might be considered. Most of the points against Win2K also apply to > WinXP, so maybe relabeling the column "Windows 2000/XP" is more > appropriate. Actually, more appropriate would be Windows 2000 Advanced Server, right? Windows XP is mainly for desktops, not servers.. Eric From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 10:42:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F27E37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F92243F93 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HGY00H7E3RNLI@thor.acuson.com> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:29:31 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id JQ7NKW8S; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:30:47 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:41:29 -0700 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <001e01c3384c$695e6610$c601a8c0@starfly> To: bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: <200306231041.29418.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <002201c33812$5b881e80$c601a8c0@starfly> <20030621202703.GB10127@over-yonder.net> <001e01c3384c$695e6610$c601a8c0@starfly> Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:42:11 -0000 On Saturday 21 June 2003 04:25 pm, Peter wrote: > People run Mandrake on servers? I would at least think they would use > Redhat.. Linux advocacy is such that users of any particular distro feel that it will meet everyone's needs better than any other distro. Thus you find people arguing that Gentoo is appropriate for newbies and Mandrake appropriate for servers. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 10:43:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABABF37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xev.ocsny.com (xev.ocsinternet.com [204.107.76.77]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787A043FDD for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Mikel.King@ocsny.com) Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:45:45 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <73B943C962BDA843AB72889433F8663A7F8BC5@xev.ocsny.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows Thread-Index: AcM5rm/qsPXiEPlTR9O+btOD2IQPUgAAIvZg From: "Mike King" To: "Eric Anderson" , "Johnson David" cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:43:31 -0000 We just put up a couple of 2003 servers at various clients. I also have 5.1 boxes running. If some one were willing to help me craft a good set of tests I myght beable to swing a side by side comparison with matching hardware... Are there any takers? Cheers,=20 Mikel King=20 Optimized Computer Solutions, INC=20 39 West Fourteenth Street=20 Second Floor=20 New York, NY 10011=20 http://www.ocsny.com=20 +------------------------------------------+=20 You may like them. You will see. You may=20 like them in a tree.=20 http://www.FreeBSD.org=20 http://www.OpenOffice.org=20 http://www.Mozilla.org=20 +------------------------------------------+=20 GOAL: Microsoft free in 2003=20 +------------------------------------------+=20 -----Original Message----- From: Eric Anderson [mailto:anderson@centtech.com]=20 Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 1:36 PM To: Johnson David Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows Johnson David wrote: > On Saturday 21 June 2003 09:58 am, Dan Langille wrote: >=20 >=20 >>It should also be comparing Windows XP, not Windows 2000. I don't=20 >>think we'd like it if they looking at FreeBSD 4.2... >=20 >=20 > Win2K is still very widely used in the market segments where FreeBSD > might be considered. Most of the points against Win2K also apply to=20 > WinXP, so maybe relabeling the column "Windows 2000/XP" is more=20 > appropriate. Actually, more appropriate would be Windows 2000 Advanced Server, right? Windows XP is mainly for desktops, not servers.. Eric _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 10:47:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC16637B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C71143F93 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (electron.centtech.com [204.177.173.173]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5NHla56070017; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:47:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3EF73D27.5080900@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:47:19 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike King References: <73B943C962BDA843AB72889433F8663A7F8BC5@xev.ocsny.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Johnson David cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:47:38 -0000 Mike King wrote: > We just put up a couple of 2003 servers at various clients. I also have > 5.1 boxes running. If some one were willing to help me craft a good set > of tests I myght beable to swing a side by side comparison with matching > hardware... > > Are there any takers? What kind of tests? How about: windows file sharing (samba) ftp transfers (gigabit ethernet?) www serving mail server (?) database server (mysql on both?) Eric From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 11:35:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B77337B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xev.ocsny.com (xev.ocsny.com [204.107.76.77]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F242843FBD for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:35:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Mikel.King@ocsny.com) Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:37:55 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: <73B943C962BDA843AB72889433F8663A0129B1@xev.ocsny.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows Thread-Index: AcM5r94Q5dBSHzKgRs63SmxMFHPeLQAAXcLQ From: "Mike King" To: "Eric Anderson" cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:35:39 -0000 Unfortunately the servers I have are old HP LPr's 100bt max...Most likely I will have to do a dual-boot system.=20 Any tools, and advice on benchmarking would be helpful. If there's anyone in the NYC area that would like to assist with this let me know. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Anderson [mailto:anderson@centtech.com]=20 Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 1:47 PM To: Mike King Cc: Johnson David; advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows Mike King wrote: > We just put up a couple of 2003 servers at various clients. I also=20 > have 5.1 boxes running. If some one were willing to help me craft a=20 > good set of tests I myght beable to swing a side by side comparison=20 > with matching hardware... >=20 > Are there any takers? What kind of tests? How about: windows file sharing (samba) ftp transfers (gigabit ethernet?) www serving mail server (?) database server (mysql on both?) Eric Cheers,=20 Mikel King=20 Optimized Computer Solutions, INC=20 39 West Fourteenth Street=20 Second Floor=20 New York, NY 10011=20 http://www.ocsny.com=20 +------------------------------------------+=20 You may like them. You will see. You may=20 like them in a tree.=20 http://www.FreeBSD.org=20 http://www.OpenOffice.org=20 http://www.Mozilla.org=20 +------------------------------------------+=20 GOAL: Microsoft free in 2003=20 +------------------------------------------+=20 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 12:20:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A6737B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuis.piwebs.com (t-indiv5-74.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 704D543FE5 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 35379 invoked by uid 85); 23 Jun 2003 19:21:10 -0000 Received: from avleeuwen@piwebs.com by thuis.piwebs.com by uid 82 with qmail-scanner-1.15 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4210. spamassassin: 2.x. Clear:SA:0(-4.2/5.0):. Processed in 11.137739 secs); 23 Jun 2003 19:21:10 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.2 required=5.0 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.109) (192.168.0.109) by 0 with SMTP; 23 Jun 2003 19:20:58 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: Julian Stacey , Friedrich Steven E CONT CNIN Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:20:02 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <200306231645.h5NGjBNF042990@tower.berklix.org> In-Reply-To: <200306231645.h5NGjBNF042990@tower.berklix.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306232120.02293.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:20:17 -0000 OpenOffice also has a presentation tool ('Impress') that might be more attractive to PowerPoint users. Ditto for OpenOffice's Excel replacement ('Calc'). The KDE Office suite, koffice (editors/koffice-kde3) also offers a presentation tool similar to PowerPoint and a spreadsheet program similar to Excel. OpenOffice is better at importing Microsoft's proprietary file formats though. I agree that MagicPoint is an excellent tool, but some users might find it far too complicated to work with. These alternatives are arguably a better choice for them. All in all, enough tools to forget about PowerPoint :). Regards, Arjan On Monday 23 June 2003 18:45, Julian Stacey wrote: > > Don't you mean MS Powerpoint? > > Yes, thanks for the correction. I can never remember names for MS > products, so I added a reminder table at the top of my > http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/free/ > > It'd be a few mins well invested, if anyone tries: > cd /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint ; make install; rehash > mgp /usr/X11R6/share/doc/mgp/sample/sample.mgp > vi_or_any_editor /usr/X11R6/share/doc/mgp/sample/sample.mgp > > Magicpoint wouldn't appeal to MS zombies scared of a keyboard > to compose a presentation though. > > - > Julian Stacey Freelance Systems Engineer, Unix & Net Consultant, > Munich. Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak > probieren. _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 12:44:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD78437B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thor.acuson.com (ac17859.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0C943FB1 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HGY00HLX9FMJI@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:31:54 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-117.acuson.com ([157.226.46.117]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id JQ7NKZ32; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:33:14 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:43:57 -0700 From: Johnson David In-reply-to: <200306232120.02293.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> To: Arjan van Leeuwen Message-id: <200306231243.57299.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <200306231645.h5NGjBNF042990@tower.berklix.org> <200306232120.02293.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:44:35 -0000 On Monday 23 June 2003 12:20 pm, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > OpenOffice also has a presentation tool ('Impress') that might be > more attractive to PowerPoint users. Ditto for OpenOffice's Excel > replacement ('Calc'). OpenOffice Impress is extremely compatible with MS PowerPoint, including the audio, wipes and other "frills". David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 20:00:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0AC737B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84D343FB1 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mj001@rogers.com) Received: from rogers.com ([24.101.253.54]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.comESMTP <20030624025950.YQTP12647.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@rogers.com> for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:59:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3EF7BEB0.3000906@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:00:00 -0400 From: mj001 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200306231645.h5NGjBNF042990@tower.berklix.org> <200306232120.02293.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <200306231243.57299.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH PLAIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.101.253.54] using ID at Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:59:50 -0400 Subject: Re: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:00:04 -0000 Johnson David wrote: > On Monday 23 June 2003 12:20 pm, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > >>OpenOffice also has a presentation tool ('Impress') that might be >>more attractive to PowerPoint users. Ditto for OpenOffice's Excel >>replacement ('Calc'). > > > OpenOffice Impress is extremely compatible with MS PowerPoint, including > the audio, wipes and other "frills". > > David > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I had the opportunity to do a presentation on Open Source products at work a few weeks ago. One selling point was to point out, part way through, that the "Powerpoint" slides I was showing had been entirely written with OpenOffice Impress, and exported in Powerpoint's format - not a byte changed with Powerpoint itself. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 04:42:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC3037B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tower.berklix.org (bsd.bsn.com [194.221.32.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7F443FAF for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:42:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h5OBgHr6045070; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:42:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.org) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h5OBg9Fr045069; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:42:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:42:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Julian Stacey Message-Id: <200306241142.h5OBg9Fr045069@tower.berklix.org> To: mj001 Fcc: sent-mail In-Reply-To: Message from mj001 of "Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:00:00 EDT." <3EF7BEB0.3000906@rogers.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:42:17 -0000 Thanks folks for your notes on MS replacement tools, (which I've latched). mj001 wrote: > I had the opportunity to do a presentation on Open Source products > at work a few weeks ago. One selling point was to point out, > part way through, that the "Powerpoint" slides I was showing > had been entirely written with OpenOffice Impress, and exported > in Powerpoint's format - not a byte changed with Powerpoint itself. Nice ( I've seen too many Unix presentations projected using MS ! ) Could you put the data behind a URL please ? (or mail it). The Munich BSD group has a leaflet for *BSD (2 language versions) http://www.berklix.org/bim/leaflet/ & it'd be nice to also place a *Point presentation adjacent, something to grab & work from when opportunities arise, to both: - load to BSD laptop, & take to company demos, & - export to Powerpoint, for casual MS users browsing past. - Julian Stacey Freelance Systems Engineer, Unix & Net Consultant, Munich. Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 05:54:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D3D37B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 05:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perlpimp.codersluts.net (adsl-154-35-102.asm.bellsouth.net [68.154.35.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396FC43FBD for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 05:54:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sektie@codersluts.net) Received: from perlpimp.codersluts.net (sektie@localhost.codersluts.net [127.0.0.1])h5ODrZAa093848; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:53:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sektie@codersluts.net) From: "sektie" To: "Peter" , Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:53:35 -0500 Message-Id: <20030624135246.M25475@codersluts.net> In-Reply-To: <001b01c339a3$d824aac0$c601a8c0@starfly> References: <007901c3385d$4c259030$c601a8c0@starfly> <20030623030248.M80508@codersluts.net> <001b01c339a3$d824aac0$c601a8c0@starfly> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.01 20030425 X-OriginatingIP: 192.168.0.9 (sektie) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: FreeBSD powered by images X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:54:38 -0000 > I know I should ignore this troll.. but.. It wasn't a troll. I just like to point out the obvious. ;) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 16:50:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA7A37B404 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brainguts.no-ip.com (66-215-252-15.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net [66.215.252.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D9343FE5 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sp0rkmail@brainguts.no-ip.com) Received: from brainguts.no-ip.com (localhost.scottnet.net [127.0.0.1]) by brainguts.no-ip.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5ONpNoa076578; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sp0rkmail@brainguts.no-ip.com) Received: from localhost (sp0rkmail@localhost)h5ONpNhF076575; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:51:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Scott To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200306231041.29418.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Message-ID: <20030624164709.Q76569@brainguts.no-ip.com> References: <002201c33812$5b881e80$c601a8c0@starfly> <20030621202703.GB10127@over-yonder.net> <200306231041.29418.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:50:03 -0000 I know I'm a bit late on this one, but maybe they should run FreeBSD against Gentoo on the big TechTV Linux vs FreeBSD shootout. I know whenever I try and advocate FreeBSD to my Linux friends running Gentoo, they always point to Portage as being a ports killer. ...And there's pretty much no way in hell someone can get a Gentoo system up in less than 30 minutes, even if they start at stage 3... >=) -Eli On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Johnson David wrote: > On Saturday 21 June 2003 04:25 pm, Peter wrote: > > People run Mandrake on servers? I would at least think they would use > > Redhat.. > > Linux advocacy is such that users of any particular distro feel that it > will meet everyone's needs better than any other distro. Thus you find > people arguing that Gentoo is appropriate for newbies and Mandrake > appropriate for servers. > > David > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 17:57:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278ED37B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web14206.mail.yahoo.com (web14206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B588643FDD for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from temac@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030625005754.48018.qmail@web14206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.22.62.13] by web14206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:57:54 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:57:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas McIntyre To: sp0rkmail@brainguts.no-ip.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:57:55 -0000 Eli wrote: > I know I'm a bit late on this one, but maybe they should run > FreeBSD against Gentoo on the big TechTV Linux vs FreeBSD > shootout. I know whenever I try and advocate FreeBSD to my > Linux friends running Gentoo, they always point to Portage as > being a ports killer. > ...And there's pretty much no way in hell someone can get a > Gentoo system up in less than 30 minutes, even if they start at > stage 3... >=) > -Eli This being advocacy, please forgive my rant. I recently evaluated gentoo as a competitor to freebsd's sparc64, and will admit to not walking away a fan, particularly of Portage. What's the point of munging in all this automagic USE stuff? One of freebsd's stregths the ease to a clean install w/o having to duel the installer. Ports are great for a willingness to allow configuring, messing with makefiles, source -- whatever -- without having to be an action hero. Try minimizing Solaris or building your own packages for comparison. Not friendly. I also sympathize with question of Gentoo's build times. First get the machine running, then tweak it -- an iterative approach is best. It's hard to understand why a working kernel isn't provided. Hand configuring a kernel to get off the cdrom seems extreme. And in light of the effort invested in Portage to chuck the stick shift, a little schizophrenic. Last gripe is for sparc64 only. If one wants to do all this command line bootstrapping, do it via working ssh daemon. Anyone having to install gentoo sparc via a serial cable better know how to configure sshd by hand; else, it may be a long build. Still, one has to appreciate getting Linux based on source. But your friends might want to consider dialing back the bragging a tad.... :) Tom McIntyre __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 08:47:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F021F37B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B08CD43FF2 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from snowfall@gmx.co.uk) Received: (qmail 6453 invoked by uid 65534); 25 Jun 2003 15:47:11 -0000 Received: from tnt1-109.quicksilver.net.nz (EHLO computer.gmx.co.uk) (202.89.142.109) by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 25 Jun 2003 17:47:11 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030626021720.05eeb998@pop.gmx.net> X-Sender: 6803933@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:47:20 +1200 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Craig Carey In-Reply-To: <20030624164709.Q76569@brainguts.no-ip.com> References: <200306231041.29418.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <002201c33812$5b881e80$c601a8c0@starfly> <20030621202703.GB10127@over-yonder.net> <200306231041.29418.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:47:16 -0000 At 2003-06-24 16:51 -0700 Tuesday, Eli Scott wrote: > >I know I'm a bit late on this one, but maybe they should run FreeBSD >against Gentoo on the big TechTV Linux vs FreeBSD shootout. I know >whenever I try and advocate FreeBSD to my Linux friends running Gentoo, >they always point to Portage as being a ports killer. ... Here are some 2001 comments by the CEO of Gentoo: : Surprises in ext3 : Daniel Robbins (drobbins@gentoo.org) : President/CEO, Gentoo Technologies, Inc. : December 1, 2001 ... : Andrea's new VM implementation (which first appeared in 2.4.10) was : really great; it really sped up the kernel and made the entire system : more responsive. 2.4.10 was definitely a major turning point in 2.4 : Linux kernel development; up until then, things weren't looking very : good, and many of us were wondering why we weren't FreeBSD developers. ... : Ext3 has a stellar reputation for being a rock-solid filesystem, http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fs8.html The reputation of the next builds upon the reputation of the earlier filesystems.. Destructive testing could be done if FreeBSD had to come out as the winner. I don't recall quantitative BSDishy articles using a destructive testing methodology as the chief method for getting Linux rejected. It took me about 2 power-offs of Linux (running in PC), to upset KDE so that it could not boot. To die after only 2 power-offs is most unimpressive. That was with the software over the SGI XFS filesystem, which could be quite reliable: http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/ Testing would be quicker if VMware was used. [Reinstalling KDE can take a long time] However I was unable to get Linux 2.4.21 and 2.5 to boot inside of VMware whilst the "/" filesystem was XFS. Perhaps crashing KDE does not get the FreeBSD to Linux crashing ratio under 1/35th. Craig Carey From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 19:04:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE70737B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brainguts.no-ip.com (66-215-252-15.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net [66.215.252.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080D643FDF for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sp0rkmail@brainguts.no-ip.com) Received: from brainguts.no-ip.com (localhost.scottnet.net [127.0.0.1]) by brainguts.no-ip.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5Q26Coa079736; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sp0rkmail@brainguts.no-ip.com) Received: from localhost (sp0rkmail@localhost)h5Q26Bnp079733; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Eli Scott To: Thomas McIntyre In-Reply-To: <20030625005754.48018.qmail@web14206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030625165501.Y79432@brainguts.no-ip.com> References: <20030625005754.48018.qmail@web14206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:04:50 -0000 For people who don't want to read on about my opinion of Gentoo vs. FreeBSD, I'll make one final appeal for pitting FreeBSD against Gentoo Linux. Gentoo is arguably the most configurable, powerful, and Advanced linux distribution (aside from lfs) out there...and FreeBSD still kicks its ass (in my opinion). Both have a similar management system for 3rd party apps, both have similar design philosophies, and so on. In short: I think the only chance linux has when pitted against FreeBSD is in Gentoo. Really, I think if we were to do a linux-FreeBSD showdown on TechTV or otherwise, the only way to win over hard-core linux users and impress the zealots is to run FreeBSD against a hard-core distro. Gentoo is pretty hardcore. Anyway, just a thought. Now, onto the meat.. On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Thomas McIntyre wrote: > > What's the point of munging in all this automagic USE stuff? One of > freebsd's stregths the ease to a clean install w/o having to duel the > installer. Ports are great for a willingness to allow configuring, > messing with makefiles, source -- whatever -- without having to be an > action hero. I would definately agree here. I "Grew up" - so to speak - (freshman year of college) on FreeBSD. I learned how to hack port's Makefiles on my own, and never found it too difficult. I also tried Gentoo for the first time then. I was impressed by portage, but I feel more at home in ports. I'm masochistic, so I actually enjoy the 2-day system installs to have a system that suits my needs completely...the sad thing is, I can install FreeBSD, cvsup ports and system source, rebuild my kernel, make world, and have the same ends in much less time. I also like the fact that one is forced to LEARN SOMETHING if they install Gentoo. You don't just pop in the CD, click a few boxes and have a running system. You get to do all of the preliminary installation by hand. This is why I have any of my friends who want to install linux, install Gentoo. I've met too many linux users who get into the script kiddie sindrome, where they think installing Redhat on their other hardrive makes them immediately 31337 or, even worse, a linux guru. One of these days, I plan on making my own FreeBSD live CD based off of FreeBSD From Scratch for my own uses (mainly just to see if I can do it). Thats how much I *like* the Gentoo-style installation. I personally think FreeBSD can do it faster and more efficiently. > > Try minimizing Solaris or building your own packages for comparison. > Not friendly. > > I also sympathize with question of Gentoo's build times. First get > the machine running, then tweak it -- an iterative approach is best. > It's hard to understand why a working kernel isn't provided. Its definately a power-user's distro. Its for people who know exactly what they want in their kernel, and don't want to mess with another person's idea of a well-configured kernel. I tend to sway in this direction myself. Personal preference, I guess. I can't stand the linux kernel config. I have to wade through menus that seem set up in an anti-intuitive way just to configure my soundcard. With FreeBSD, I copy GENERIC, add a line, thats it. I don't even have to use a text editor if I don't want to, just append the line to the file. > > Hand configuring a kernel to get off the cdrom seems extreme. And in > light of the effort invested in Portage to chuck the stick shift, a > little schizophrenic. Again, power-user oriented. The first thing I do in linux is configure a new kernel, why not start out with the one i want? > Last gripe is for sparc64 only. If one wants to do all this command > line bootstrapping, do it via working ssh daemon. Anyone having to > install gentoo sparc via a serial cable better know how to configure > sshd by hand; else, it may be a long build. > > Still, one has to appreciate getting Linux based on source. But your > friends might want to consider dialing back the bragging a tad.... > Gentoo it really about the only linux I'll allow on any of my systems. I've got it on my main machine just to track linux development and compare it to FreeBSD (it still doesn't match the speed and responsiveness of FreeBSD, and frankly, none of the File Systems feel as nice on the user end as UFS2, and I say that after trying ext2, ext3, XFS, and reiser...no jfs experience yet). I relate Gentoo to people as the best you'll get with linux, after swimming through several hours of hell on the install. I try to be pretty rounded as far as OS's go. In the last three years I've been actively interested in all things not windows, I've used Solaris, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, OS X, Linux(Gentoo, Slackware, RedHat, Mandrake, and Debian), and pretty much every version of Windows. FreeBSD won me over the first time I used it, and it's remained my favorite OS out of all of the ones I mentioned. I think OS X might come in second place. Anyway, I think my rambling should come to an end now...I'm sure half of this stuff is of no intrest to the majority of you. -Eli