From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 03:26:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E55D16A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F3443F3F for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by digiflux.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA3BOof5039648; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:24:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by digiflux.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hA3BOjCZ039647; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:24:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:24:45 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200311031124.hA3BOjCZ039647@digiflux.org> X-Authentication-Warning: digiflux.org: www set sender to olivas@digiflux.org using -f To: "Johnson David" Received: from 213.96.162.21 (auth. user olivas@localhost) by digiflux.org with HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:24:44 +0100 X-IlohaMail-Blah: olivas@localhost X-IlohaMail-Method: mail() [mem] X-IlohaMail-Dummy: moo X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.7.11 (On: digiflux.org) In-Reply-To: <200310231125.35697.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> From: "Stacy Olivas" Bounce-To: "Stacy Olivas" Errors-To: "Stacy Olivas" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCO and etc arguement X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:26:24 -0000 On 10/23/2003, "Johnson David" wrote: > >Another factor to consider is heterogenous environments. All the TCO >studies I've seen calculate the cost for all Windows or all Linux. This >is unrealistic for most corporate environments. It might make sense to >deploy Linux or FreeBSD on the servers, and Windows on the desktop. > Interesting you say that... I know of at least one organization that has moved it's servers to some flavor of unix, with Windows 2000 on the desktop.= =20 It makes it easier for the users to do their job, and the headache of weekly hotfixes and other stuff is reduced. The admins say they love the setup.. it gives them more control and flexibility and keeps the users who only know windows (or use one of the many applications) happy. -Stacy From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 06:47:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BBC816A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:47:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from regina.plastikos.com (216-107-106-250.wan.networktel.net [216.107.106.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC16343FBD for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:47:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-212-172-144.jan.bellsouth.net [68.212.172.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by regina.plastikos.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69216EF30 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 6422920F26; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:25:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:25:13 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: twig les Message-ID: <20031031132513.GC2632@over-yonder.net> References: <200310281808.47924.dgw@liwest.at> <20031028174321.84152.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031028174321.84152.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Friendly and Secure Desktop Operating System X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:47:16 -0000 On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:43:21AM -0800 I heard the voice of twig les, and lo! it spake thus: > > I can't stand reading poetry. Hate it. So some well-versed people > could call me stupid too because I always miss the subtleties, and in a > particular scope they would be right I guess. But I simply don't care > about poetry. Just fine. Those well-versed people would then be perfectly right in stating that you shouldn't poetate[0] in public, or anywhere that anybody else might be affected. Similarly, people are allowed to have no idea whatsoever how to run a computer system if they want. They just shouldn't try then :) [0] It should be a word. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 08:25:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D3316A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [68.168.78.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3AEE43FAF for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta7.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031103162531.FLMU8213.mta7.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:25:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA68178.3030201@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:25:28 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Getting FreeBSDers involved in the local LUG X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:25:29 -0000 Hey all, I've recently become involved in the local LUG. There seems to be a lot of interest in FreeBSD (and the other BSDs). I'll be going to the installfest in two weeks to help out with the folks who are going to be trying out FreeBSD for the first time. Is there a place that I could post this to any FreeBSD mailing list? Overall there seems to be nobody in this (Pittsburgh) area active with FreeBSD and I'd like to see if I can churn up some interest, centered around this LUG. Any general advice? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 12:03:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C549616A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:03:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE1843FBD for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:03:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA3JwCoA086287 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hA3JwCqB086286 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:58:12 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031103115812.K59978@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Subject: help: 10 year FreeBSD Anniversary t-shirts X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:03:15 -0000 hey, any graphic artists ou there that have some spare cycles? we're going to print some 10 Year FreeBSD T-Shirts for the upcoming anniversary party but I've got nobody at our company that's *really* good artistically to do the shirts. of course, this is all been a volunteer effort as I've pretty much blown my budget for the party ;) we'll try to get some extras printed and maybe FreeBSD Mall can put them up on the site or we'll post em on ours until they're all gone. feel free to contact me offlist. thanks, -matt -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 15:31:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00A316A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFDA43FBF for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:31:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089FE3D28 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:31:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: Freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:31:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FA69EE5.28971.3080738A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FA10A9D.6149.1AB4D4F6@localhost> References: <20031030173157.GA8122@heceta.db.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: Re: Ottawa (and area) BSD pizza meet X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:31:04 -0000 Correction to location: 280 Metcalfe at Gilmour http://www.ottawaplus.ca/map?mode=geo&id=49236&lat=454158&lon=-756913 My apologies On 30 Oct 2003 at 12:57, Dan Langille wrote: > I think advocacy should also know: > > On 30 Oct 2003 at 12:31, Diane Bruce wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > For Ottawa and area bsd folk (freebsd/netbsd/openbsd etc.) > > > > BSD meeting Colonade, Somerset St, pizza+beer, 6pm > > Thursday November 6th. > > > > Cya there.. > > > > - Diane > > -- > Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 15:55:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF0A16A4CF for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F0243F3F for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:55:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B6C4D239A15; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:55:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:55:09 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20031103235509.GG98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <3FA68178.3030201@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="j2AXaZ4YhVcLc+PQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FA68178.3030201@potentialtech.com> Organization: Zer0 X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Fingerprint: D161 E4EA 4BFA 2427 F3F9 5B1F 2015 31D5 845D FEDD X-PGP-Key: http://zer0.org/~gsutter/gsutter.pgp X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting FreeBSDers involved in the local LUG X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:55:11 -0000 --j2AXaZ4YhVcLc+PQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-11-03 11:25 -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > > Is there a place that I could post this to any FreeBSD mailing > list? Overall there seems to be nobody in this (Pittsburgh) area > active with FreeBSD and I'd like to see if I can churn up some > interest, centered around this LUG. Are there any pair.com local newsgroups or boards? Pair is local to Pittsburgh, very FreeBSD friendly and a great ISP besides. Companies like that seem to attract good techies as customers and employees, and some of their employees are definitely knowledgeable about FreeBSD. Greg --=20 Gregory S. Sutter If you want to view paradise, simply mailto:gsutter@zer0.org look around and view it. Anything you http://zer0.org/~gsutter/ want to, do it. Want to change the world? There's nothing to it. --j2AXaZ4YhVcLc+PQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/purdIBUx1YRd/t0RAghjAJ0Yd/+VJxzCMJuelcpv4DqTMq044gCfVcuM hZMWCSzy/WiNH08kRizWvYc= =lpWj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --j2AXaZ4YhVcLc+PQ-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 19:40:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E839616A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4488243F93 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.33) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C8492008097FC; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:40:31 +0100 Message-ID: <002801c3a285$5fd68430$21fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: "Matt Olander" , References: <20031103115812.K59978@knight.ixsystems.net> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:40:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3A28D.C155A5D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Re: 10 year FreeBSD Anniversary t-shirts X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:40:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3A28D.C155A5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey, there is anybody better than Albrecht Dürer. Take a look to 'the Knight, the Death and the Devil'. As always, forgive me if I'm writing from the Disgusting Operating System. thanks VITTORI > hey, > > any graphic artists ou there that have some spare cycles? we're going > to print some 10 Year FreeBSD T-Shirts for the upcoming anniversary > party but > I've got nobody at our company that's *really* good artistically to do > the shirts. of course, this is all been a volunteer effort as I've > pretty much blown my budget for the party ;) > > we'll try to get some extras printed and maybe FreeBSD Mall can put > them > up on the site or we'll post em on ours until they're all gone. > > feel free to contact me offlist. > > thanks, > -matt > > -- > Matt Olander > (408)943-4100 Phone > (408)943-4101 Fax > www.offmyserver.com ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3A28D.C155A5D0-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 3 20:07:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D04A16A4CE for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3.tin.it [212.216.176.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8709E43FAF for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@jumpy.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.57) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F98DAEA004F7FAF; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:07:24 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c3a289$25d2ff30$39fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: "Matt Olander" , References: <20031103115812.K59978@knight.ixsystems.net> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:07:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3A291.871B5960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Re: 10 year FreeBSD Anniversary t-shirts X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:07:37 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3A291.871B5960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey, there is anybody better than Albrecht Dürer. Take a look to 'the Knight, the Death and the Devil'. As always, forgive me if I'm writing from the Disgusting Operating System. thanks > hey, > > any graphic artists ou there that have some spare cycles? we're going > to print some 10 Year FreeBSD T-Shirts for the upcoming anniversary > party but > I've got nobody at our company that's *really* good artistically to do > the shirts. of course, this is all been a volunteer effort as I've > pretty much blown my budget for the party ;) > > we'll try to get some extras printed and maybe FreeBSD Mall can put > them > up on the site or we'll post em on ours until they're all gone. > > feel free to contact me offlist. > > thanks, > -matt > > -- > Matt Olander > (408)943-4100 Phone > (408)943-4101 Fax > www.offmyserver.com ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C3A291.871B5960-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 10:30:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB49316A4CF for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:30:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE9143FE3 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:30:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:1891 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AH5x1-0003EX-5e for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:30:47 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:26:38 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNM9TTR; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:25:40 -0800 From: Johnson David To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:29:07 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1AH5x1-0003EX-5e*6DT1JNMqTfQ* Subject: I can't believe he said that! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:30:55 -0000 There's an article at ZDNet.uk with some strange words from Redhat's Matthew Szulik: "I would say that for the consumer market place, Windows probably continues to be the right product line" This guy is the chief executive of the largest distributor of Linux. Wow! David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 10:36:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8591B16A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep11-int.chello.nl (amsfep11-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8411D43FAF for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep11-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20031104183617.TFVJ29029.amsfep11-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:36:17 +0100 Message-ID: <3FA7F18F.9060100@sitetronics.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:35:59 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David References: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> In-Reply-To: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I can't believe he said that! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:36:25 -0000 Johnson David wrote: >There's an article at ZDNet.uk with some strange words from Redhat's >Matthew Szulik: > > > >"I would say that for the consumer market place, Windows probably >continues to be the right product line" > >This guy is the chief executive of the largest distributor of Linux. >Wow! > >David > > And, sorry to say it, but for most computer consumers, Windows continues to be the right product line. --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 13:17:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD76816A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB7643FE9 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:17:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:3116 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AH8YZ-00019s-4m; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:17:43 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:13:33 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNM9WT5; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:12:32 -0800 From: Johnson David To: "Devon H. O'Dell" Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:15:59 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <3FA7F18F.9060100@sitetronics.com> In-Reply-To: <3FA7F18F.9060100@sitetronics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311041315.59404.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1AH8YZ-00019s-4m*fk7OMa.msgo* cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I can't believe he said that! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:17:54 -0000 On Tuesday 04 November 2003 10:35 am, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > And, sorry to say it, but for most computer consumers, Windows > continues to be the right product line. I agree with you, but making it a self-fulfilling prophecy by proclaiming it direct from the executive offices of the world's largest Linux distributor is crazy. I can understand why Redhat doesn't want to provide support for their discontinued "consumer" line of shrink-wrapped CDs, but it doesn't need to come out and publicly say something this tactless. By discontinuing Redhat Linux at the same day he said this, Szulik is implying that Redhat thinks Linux will NEVER be ready for the consumer. It's one thing to tell an individual customer that you don't have a solution for their particular need. I've done that myself back when I was in sales. But that's a far cry from announcing to the world to go elsewhere. That statement of Szulik's is going to be quoted by Microsoft for the next decade. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 15:33:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A1916A4CF for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp1.tin.it (vsmtp1.tin.it [212.216.176.221]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F136043FCB for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:33:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.120) by vsmtp1.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F98F90000582D38 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:32:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c3a32b$e5fb9fe0$78fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:32:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: I can't believe he said that! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:33:25 -0000 I think, making exception of some wonderful no-profit distributions like Slackware or Source Mage, the Linux is the worst approach to unix. I'll add on this line to every mail of mine, until I'll have the new DSL line to connect my FreeBSD workstation: - As always, forgive me for writing from the Disgusting Operating System -. > There's an article at ZDNet.uk with some strange words from Redhat's > Matthew Szulik: > > > > "I would say that for the consumer market place, Windows probably > continues to be the right product line" > > This guy is the chief executive of the largest distributor of Linux. > Wow! > > David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 15:44:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B7B16A50F for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AE643F85 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (212.171.174.146) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C849200874659 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:44:17 +0100 Message-ID: <004601c3a32d$95dd7400$78fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:44:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: art for daemons X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:44:19 -0000 For those who appreciate art, I post a pair of links to the best Albrecht Dürer's reproductions available on internet. I would like to find the time one day, to build an image for FreeBSD from one of them. http://www.geocities.com/eleonoreweil/durerus/den/w3.html http://www.geocities.com/eleonoreweil/durerus/den/w42.html As always, forgive me for I am writing from the Disgusting Operating System. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 15:58:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA91316A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158A543FAF for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:58:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:4686 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AHB4X-0006L0-4D; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:58:53 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:54:42 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNM9ZSD; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:53:39 -0800 From: Johnson David To: ".VWV." , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:57:06 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <004601c3a32d$95dd7400$78fc2dd5@workstation> In-Reply-To: <004601c3a32d$95dd7400$78fc2dd5@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311041557.06829.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1AHB4X-0006L0-4D*j6RJehshG6g* Subject: Re: art for daemons X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:58:56 -0000 On Tuesday 04 November 2003 03:44 pm, .VWV. wrote: > For those who appreciate art, I post a pair of links to the best > Albrecht Dürer's reproductions available on internet. I would like to > find the time one day, to build an image for FreeBSD from one of > them. > > http://www.geocities.com/eleonoreweil/durerus/den/w3.html Too diabolical and morbid for my tastes. > http://www.geocities.com/eleonoreweil/durerus/den/w42.html Nice, but I'm not sure what a rhinoceros has to do with FreeBSD. But I would buy a shirt with this on it, should any be left over after the party. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 16:13:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6012A16A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABC943F93 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (212.171.174.189) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C849200876A07 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:13:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c3a331$b78a6050$bdaeabd4@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <004601c3a32d$95dd7400$78fc2dd5@workstation> <200311041557.06829.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:14:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Re: art for daemons X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:13:54 -0000 > > For those who appreciate art, I post a pair of links to the best > > Albrecht Dürer's reproductions available on internet. I would like to > > find the time one day, to build an image for FreeBSD from one of > > them. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/eleonoreweil/durerus/den/w3.html > Too diabolical and morbid for my tastes. That is the fascination... > > http://www.geocities.com/eleonoreweil/durerus/den/w42.html > Nice, but I'm not sure what a rhinoceros has to do with FreeBSD. But I > would buy a shirt with this on it, should any be left over after the > party. I hope somebody will print it. The rhinoceros is a break-through-living-machine, exactly like a solid unix system. As always, forgive me for I am writing from the Disgusting Operating System. With estimation VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 16:32:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C392E16A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052E343FEC for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:2752 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AHBad-0001BF-5V; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:32:03 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:27:53 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNM951B; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:26:50 -0800 From: Johnson David To: ".VWV." , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:30:18 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <004601c3a32d$95dd7400$78fc2dd5@workstation> <200311041557.06829.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <000c01c3a331$b78a6050$bdaeabd4@workstation> In-Reply-To: <000c01c3a331$b78a6050$bdaeabd4@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311041630.18092.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1AHBad-0001BF-5V*T/NK9loObLI* Subject: Re: art for daemons X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:32:12 -0000 On Tuesday 04 November 2003 04:14 pm, .VWV. wrote: > I hope somebody will print it. The rhinoceros is a > break-through-living-machine, exactly like a solid unix system. It would make a good mascot. Rhinos are armored, robust, stable, no-nonsense, and make ever so wonderful pets for the children. Much better than the flightless nest-wetting fowl the other guys have. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 17:03:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9898216A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp1.tin.it (vsmtp1.tin.it [212.216.176.221]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A759843FE1 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.73) by vsmtp1.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F98F90000585B7A for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:03:36 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c3a338$aa7f2060$49fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <004601c3a32d$95dd7400$78fc2dd5@workstation> <200311041557.06829.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <000c01c3a331$b78a6050$bdaeabd4@workstation> <200311041630.18092.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:03:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Re: Re: art for daemons X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:03:38 -0000 >> I hope somebody will print it. The rhinoceros is a >> break-through-living-machine, exactly like a solid unix system. > It would make a good mascot. Rhinos are armored, robust, stable, > no-nonsense, and make ever so wonderful pets for the children. Much > better than the flightless nest-wetting fowl the other guys have. > > David That fowls are probably generated by a kind of infantilism, genius people often have. I'm only a techno-artist, therefore I can simply synthetize and use what geniuses of technology create. I must sleep a bit now. As always, forgive me for I am writing from the Disgusting Operating System. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 17:30:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2071516A4CF for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA50843F75 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 1AHCUq-0006z0-00; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 02:30:08 +0100 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) hA514642000387 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:04:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hA5145ou000386 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:04:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:04:05 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I can't believe he said that! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:30:11 -0000 Johnson David wrote: > "I would say that for the consumer market place, Windows probably > continues to be the right product line" I was rather more disturbed by the local authorized Apple dealer's insistence on trying to sell an MS Windows PC to my father. (I was along for knowledgeable advice.) I had to point out rather indelicately that we would certainly not buy such a PC from this store, in order to force the salesguy to even discuss a Mac. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 4 23:37:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB4516A4CE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ABBD43FA3 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:37:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 50A2C15227; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BEBC15226 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:37:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:37:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Message-ID: <20031104233304.K89139@fubar.adept.org> References: <200311041029.07614.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: I can't believe he said that! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:37:16 -0000 On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Johnson David wrote: > There's an article at ZDNet.uk with some strange words from Redhat's > Matthew Szulik: > > "I would say that for the consumer market place, Windows probably > continues to be the right product line" > This guy is the chief executive of the largest distributor of Linux. > Wow! honestly, what do you expect from RH? this is the company that EOLs products quicker that M$. RH is the M$ of open source. really. that said, others' sentiments that windoze is "the right choice" for many in the "computing world" is spot on. if you can't figure out how to read documentation and need handholding at $350/hour, m$ is a nice choice. and i'm not even being my usual "bsd biggot" self. linux can be fine, but ignore RH at all costs. please. use something like lunar or gentoo (if you can stand the arrogance of certain members of the gentoo community) so you have a "bsd-like" aka "built from source and optimized as much as i want" OS. lunar was as much as "100% faster" in some testing done with basic open source apps like Apache and MySQL. avoid RH. avoid the noid. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 5 13:13:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8A116A4CF for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from web14609.mail.yahoo.com (web14609.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9612143F93 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:13:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from plageotakes@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031105211320.35432.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.164.12.157] by web14609.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:13:20 PST Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:13:20 -0800 (PST) From: peter lageotakes To: FreeBSD-Advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: New article about 4.9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:13:21 -0000 http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5046 Seems very positive. It gives a basic overview of an install/cvs/kernel build. pete __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 7 18:16:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2509216A4CE for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp1.tin.it (vsmtp1.tin.it [212.216.176.221]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1109743FCB for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:16:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (212.171.174.123) by vsmtp1.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F98F900007351D8 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 03:16:01 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 03:16:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 02:16:04 -0000 I have understood very well what that manager of Red Hat was trying to explain. At the time of KDE 2.x and GNOME 1.x, using Windowamker as desktop, it was possible to tune KDE to 'kdestep' style, and GNOME to 'gtkstep', obtaining a similar look for all the graphical applications. Now it is a complete chaos. If those people was working under a hierarchical organization like the FreeBSD one, open-source unix could quite destroy Microsoft. Unfortunately, a lot of people prefer to waste time on endless graphical developments, instead of consolidating their platforms. The most part of the ports' links for this purpose are still broken, I can understand the lack of FreeBSD support for them. I have found a lot of sources with the only help of Google. If I wasn't completely alone here, I had tried to pack the desktop described above on a FreeBSD for end-users. I'm very disenchanted now, even if my own workstations will look as a masterpiece of graphics for the entire life of their hardware - wine enclosed -. At least the entire command-line system seems perfect, unlike other unix variants. As always, forgive me for I'm temporarily writing from the Disgusting Operating System. I'm on Amnesiac 4.6.2, which also boots this shit. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 8 09:35:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB4C16A4CE for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao06.cox.net (lakemtao06.cox.net [68.1.17.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1672143FEC for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:35:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031108173546.DVQI24575.lakemtao06.cox.net@fortytwo>; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:35:46 -0500 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:34:32 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: ".VWV." Message-Id: <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:35:49 -0000 On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 03:16:03 +0100 ".VWV." wrote: > > I have understood very well what that manager of Red Hat was trying to > explain. At the time of KDE 2.x and GNOME 1.x, using Windowamker as desktop, > it was possible to tune KDE to 'kdestep' style, and GNOME to 'gtkstep', > obtaining a similar look for all the graphical applications. I am slowly working on a program working on a program for tweaking all thier files as well as the files of few window managers. > Now it is a complete chaos. If those people was working under a hierarchical > organization like the FreeBSD one, open-source unix could quite destroy > Microsoft. > Unfortunately, a lot of people prefer to waste time on endless graphical > developments, instead of consolidating their platforms. > The most part of the ports' links for this purpose are still broken, I can > understand the lack of FreeBSD support for them. I have found a lot of > sources with the only help of Google. If you have the capabilities to host, I would be happy to begin work on a desktop oriented version of fbsd. > If I wasn't completely alone here, I had tried to pack the desktop described > above on a FreeBSD for end-users. I'm very disenchanted now, even if my own > workstations will look as a masterpiece of graphics for the entire life of > their hardware - wine enclosed -. The hardpart is finding the hosting required to get the project started. I was talking to two ppl awhile back, but not heard from either in a while. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 8 09:40:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B4D16A4D2 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02CF43FBF for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:40:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031108174054.LFFJ23231.mta9.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:40:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:40:49 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vulpes Velox References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:40:52 -0000 Vulpes Velox wrote: > If you have the capabilities to host, I would be happy to begin work on a > desktop oriented version of fbsd. > >>If I wasn't completely alone here, I had tried to pack the desktop described >>above on a FreeBSD for end-users. I'm very disenchanted now, even if my own >>workstations will look as a masterpiece of graphics for the entire life of >>their hardware - wine enclosed -. > > The hardpart is finding the hosting required to get the project started. I was > talking to two ppl awhile back, but not heard from either in a while. What would you need in the way of hosting to get this rolling? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 8 10:06:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C6B16A4CE for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from skippy.camphill.cz (gprs177-217.eurotel.cz [160.218.177.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F2443FE9 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:06:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zhouska@skippy.camphill.cz) Received: by skippy.camphill.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F0D4842C; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:11:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:11:30 +0100 From: Zbynek Houska To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031108181130.GA35505@skippy.camphill.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: TeXlive for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:06:46 -0000 Dear FreeBSD users, is someone ever involved for "porting" TeXlive ditribution in FreeBSD? CD contains binaries for FBSD too, but simlinks seems to be broken... so I would rather appreciate to have TeXlive incorporated into ports tree. Zbynek -- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 8 12:06:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F41316A4D7 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao07.cox.net (lakemtao07.cox.net [68.1.17.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5F743F75 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:06:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031108200611.FDJD4890.lakemtao07.cox.net@fortytwo>; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:06:11 -0500 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 14:04:58 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: Bill Moran Message-Id: <20031108140458.0cd01fb3.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com> References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> <3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 20:06:14 -0000 On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:40:49 -0500 Bill Moran wrote: > Vulpes Velox wrote: > > > > > If you have the capabilities to host, I would be happy to begin work on a > > desktop oriented version of fbsd. > > > >>If I wasn't completely alone here, I had tried to pack the desktop described > >>above on a FreeBSD for end-users. I'm very disenchanted now, even if my own > >>workstations will look as a masterpiece of graphics for the entire life of > >>their hardware - wine enclosed -. > > > > The hardpart is finding the hosting required to get the project started. I > > was talking to two ppl awhile back, but not heard from either in a while. > > What would you need in the way of hosting to get this rolling? Something like 2 gigs for ISOs, some source, and html and a bit of bandwidth. I want to put together 4 sets of ISOs. i486, i586/mmx, p4, k7 Right now I am slowly in the proccess of getting my system geared up for it and doing a bit of testing. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 8 20:01:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF71816A4CE for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90FA43FE0 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (212.171.174.10) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C849200A59FA8 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 05:01:22 +0100 Message-ID: <006301c3a676$25f06890$0aaeabd4@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 05:01:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: endless development kills art - Bill and Vulpes X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 04:01:24 -0000 I thank Bill Moran and Vulpes Velox for their replies. It would be difficult for me to work at such distances, even if the hosting isn't a real problem of money. I can simply let you a trace of my experience, hoping it will be a direction to follow: keep the old libraries and frontends, they are still the very best for a desktop distribution. Developers with time to waste are killing creativity. There was a lot of artwork for both GTK 1.x and KDE 2.x. Now it is a desert, artists don't like to remake their work at every developers' whim. GNUstep's Windowmaker has kept itself safe at the moment. The unix desktop has been already killed. GTK 1.x isn't dead yet, even if the developers would like to kill it. The main part of the applications still work on it. KDE 2.x is quite dead, therefore it is necessary to port to 3.x the KDEstep style, to match GNUstep with GTKstep. The NeXT-like dream isn't dead, owing to the strenght of Windowmaker's volunteers. My only hope is the intelligent hierachical organization of the FreeBSD core team. As for desktops, Linux is already dead. Flame me as you like, this is the reality. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 8 23:12:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991A116A4CE for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EAC43F85 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DC13815227; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3AF15226 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:12:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:12:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20031108181130.GA35505@skippy.camphill.cz> Message-ID: <20031108231103.S11183@fubar.adept.org> References: <20031108181130.GA35505@skippy.camphill.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: TeXlive for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 07:12:20 -0000 On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Zbynek Houska wrote: > is someone ever involved for "porting" TeXlive ditribution in FreeBSD? > CD contains binaries for FBSD too, but simlinks seems to be broken... so I > would rather appreciate to have TeXlive incorporated into ports tree. hmm, does their installer install incorrect symlinks? they specificaly mention i386-freebsd4.8 as a supported platform, so maybe letting them know about the symlinks would be a good idea? or are you doing the install under 5.x? -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist!