From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 11: 4:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24B537B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010D243FAF for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com ([68.11.249.216]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030223190441.OJKQ8666.lakemtao03.cox.net@vwinxp.threespace.com> for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:04:41 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:04:53 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] In-Reply-To: <3E578CE0.8020700@digiflux.org> References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:44 AM 2/22/2003, you wrote: >If anybody was offended by this but of off-key humor, I wholeheartedly >apologize. First off, I applaud you for your apology on this issue, Stacy. It takes tremendous character and understanding to consider others' perspectives, even when your own perspective tells you that you've done nothing wrong. To all others who responded in favor of the humor or in defense of the individual's right to free speech, I believe you've missed the point entirely. The jive filter isn't based on a dialect; it's based on a centuries old stereotype of African-American speech. The content of the message wasn't funny at all. But even the mind-numbingly dull GPL is funny when you make yourself up in blackface with big white lips and add a little shuffle, isn't it? The simple fact is that I think most of you are too far removed from the group you're making fun of to understand why they wouldn't find the joke nearly as funny. Despite being incredibly enlightened with regard to technology, most of you are painfully ignorant with respect to understanding anybody that's not as white-bread as you are. Perhaps when somebody writes the homo filter or the habib filter or the lo-wang filter or some other filter that strikes uncomfortably close to home for you, then you'll understand. --Chip Morton When they came for the gypsies, I did not speak, for I am not a gypsy. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for the Catholics, I did not speak, for I am not a Catholic. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 11:40:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D6037B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1003443FB1 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:40:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown[12.242.158.67]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02) with ESMTP id <20030223194006002001iq2ke>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:40:06 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1NJcV5F043562; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id h1NJcP0k043559; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: Terry Lambert Cc: jtn@jtn.cx, rob spellberg , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> <3E58778A.CD67C07@mindspring.com> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 23 Feb 2003 11:38:25 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3E58778A.CD67C07@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Lines: 50 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > "Jason T. Nelson" wrote: > > > > And this is particularly why we have the 2nd amendment; the second the US > > federal government tries this is the day I march on Washington armed to > > defend my rights as defined in our Constitution (and I wouldn't be alone, I > > assure you). I doubt you could seriously consider that Congress attempting > > this stupidity as "representing" our citizens' interests. > > The Constitution does not grant these rights; it merely > acknowledges them. Look up "inalienable". 8-) 8-). Did anybody here say the Constitution grants rights? Jason used "defined". As for "inalienable", that's from the Declaration of Independence, which can be easily ignored by those amending the Constitution. (Of course, The People may claim their rights, regardless of the Constitution.) There is a language problem here, though. The word "right" has many meanings, so that our language is often misinterpreted and discussions become babble. There are two main meanings, with a big difference: "Privilege": This the obvious and most practical meaning -- the most useful one. When people mean something different, they should use more words; but they don't, leading to the creation of this definition: "Claim of Privilege": This meaning is usually rendered fuzzy by an implied or explicit prefixing with the word "Just". At one extreme, "Just" is defined metaphysically as coming from a god. At the other extreme, it's defined as coming from some law/regulation/rule. In the middle, it comes from tradition and/or supreme law as from our Declaration of Independence and/or Constitution (as misinterpreted by a Court). It's unclear what people are thinking when they say "driving's not a right, it's a privilege". (Most are probably not thinking at all, but merely quoting a mantra tought to them by their teachers who, in turn, learned it from their socialist college professors.) Driving can be considered either a priviledge or a just claim to a privilege as granted by law to those who qualify (i.e., a right). Changing the subject somewhat, I'll note that regardless of what *claims* people have on any privileges, the *enjoyment* of those privileges are ultimately dependent on explicit or implicit *grants* of privilege by the people controlling the force of arms, who are usually, in turn, controlled by means of money. If you want to try to ensure your enjoyment of rights, you need to strive after control of the guns and money. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 11:43:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41CF37B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:43:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from hindenburg.eboai.org (hindenburg.eboai.org [206.183.134.245]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CFC43F3F for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:43:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jtn@jtn.cx) Received: by hindenburg.eboai.org (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 115AE5E3DC; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:43:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:43:54 -0500 From: "Jason T. Nelson" To: Terry Lambert Cc: rob spellberg , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? Message-ID: <20030223194354.GA94575@jtn.cx> Reply-To: jtn@jtn.cx References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> <3E58778A.CD67C07@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zhXaljGHf11kAtnf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E58778A.CD67C07@mindspring.com> X-Url: http://www.jtn.cx/~jtn/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In our last exciting episode, Terry Lambert (tlambert2@mindspring.com) said: > The Constitution does not grant these rights; it merely > acknowledges them. Look up "inalienable". 8-) 8-). Ah, sorry. You are correct, of course. :) --=20 Jason T. Nelson http://www.jtn.cx/~jtn/ BOFH Extraordiaire & Sysadmin Ombudsman GPG key 0xFF676C9E GPG key fingerprint =3D 6272 5482 EDDD D0A3 FED2 262A FABB 599D FF67 6C9E disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer about them. --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+WSR6+rtZnf9nbJ4RAgGgAKCrQ7SVWcC3NwyIVqSrrydcK4tvzQCfQdPx J2ZPal8Kvu66hgFW93eaL/4= =3fY4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 11:56:14 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5AB37B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (jasper.nighttide.net [207.5.141.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7CB43F93 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1NJuBC9044577 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:56:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from localhost (darren@localhost) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1NJuBji044574 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:56:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) X-Authentication-Warning: olmec.nighttide.net: darren owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:56:11 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Henderson To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> Message-ID: References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Chip Morton wrote: > To all others who responded in favor of the humor or in defense of the > individual's right to free speech, I believe you've missed the point > entirely. The jive filter isn't based on a dialect; it's based on a > centuries old stereotype of African-American speech. The content of the "jive" was as much a dialect as any other popular vernacular is for its time. Its certainly not based of a centuries old stereotype. Its more recent then hippie/flower child speak, beatnik, etc. And its no different then the vernacular of present day MTV, hip-hop, or club crowd (insert any subculture here that you like [subculture being a component of the whole culture not a diminutive]). ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@nighttide.net Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 12: 9:48 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AAA937B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65A743FB1 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0262.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.7] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18n2RJ-0007Ou-00; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:09:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3E592A2D.1F46CD19@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:08:13 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: jtn@jtn.cx, rob spellberg , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> <3E58778A.CD67C07@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a43118bec1cfee21b5909b8f5e4670040b666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Gary W. Swearingen" wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > "Jason T. Nelson" wrote: > > > And this is particularly why we have the 2nd amendment; the second the US > > > federal government tries this is the day I march on Washington armed to > > > defend my rights as defined in our Constitution (and I wouldn't be alone, I > > > assure you). I doubt you could seriously consider that Congress attempting > > > this stupidity as "representing" our citizens' interests. > > > > The Constitution does not grant these rights; it merely > > acknowledges them. Look up "inalienable". 8-) 8-). > > Did anybody here say the Constitution grants rights? Jason used "defined". > > As for "inalienable", that's from the Declaration of Independence, which > can be easily ignored by those amending the Constitution. (Of course, > The People may claim their rights, regardless of the Constitution.) As Jason points out, if that were to happen, we'd just re-declare out independence. 8-) 8-). > There is a language problem here, though. The word "right" has many > meanings, so that our language is often misinterpreted and discussions > become babble. There are two main meanings, with a big difference: > > "Privilege": > This the obvious and most practical meaning -- the most useful one. > When people mean something different, they should use more words; > but they don't, leading to the creation of this definition: "Driving is not a right, it's a priviledge", since we nationalized the highway system in 1954 in order to force standards to support width and bridge height requirements for mobile command posts, in the event of nuclear war. 8-). > "Claim of Privilege": > This meaning is usually rendered fuzzy by an implied or explicit > prefixing with the word "Just". At one extreme, "Just" is defined > metaphysically as coming from a god. At the other extreme, it's > defined as coming from some law/regulation/rule. In the middle, > it comes from tradition and/or supreme law as from our Declaration > of Independence and/or Constitution (as misinterpreted by a Court). inalienable: incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred right: 1 qualities (as adherence to duty or obedience to lawful authority) that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval 2 something to which one has a just claim: as a : the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled b(1) the interest that one has in a piece of property -- often used in plural 3 something that one may properly claim as due 4 the cause of truth or justice > It's unclear what people are thinking when they say "driving's not a > right, it's a privilege". (Most are probably not thinking at all, but > merely quoting a mantra tought to them by their teachers who, in turn, > learned it from their socialist college professors.) Driving can be > considered either a priviledge or a just claim to a privilege as granted > by law to those who qualify (i.e., a right). Driving, as a right, is not inalienable. It was alienated in the Interstate Highway Act of 1954 (see above). > Changing the subject somewhat, I'll note that regardless of what > *claims* people have on any privileges, the *enjoyment* of those > privileges are ultimately dependent on explicit or implicit *grants* of > privilege by the people controlling the force of arms, who are usually, > in turn, controlled by means of money. If you want to try to ensure > your enjoyment of rights, you need to strive after control of the guns > and money. That really doesn't agree with Locke or Rosseau... 8-) 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 12:55:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A97A37B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7099B43F3F for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:55:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown[12.242.158.67]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52) with ESMTP id <2003022320551805200k18eie>; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:55:18 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1NKri5F044451; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:53:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id h1NKrZoj044448; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:53:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: Chip Morton Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 23 Feb 2003 12:53:35 -0800 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> Message-ID: <6u4r6u1zxs.r6u@localhost.localdomain> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chip Morton writes: > First off, I applaud you for your apology on this issue, Stacy. It > takes tremendous character and understanding to consider others' > perspectives, even when your own perspective tells you that you've done > nothing wrong. Chip, that's a bunch of &^%#^ %@^$^%. I'd explain that further and comment on some of your other nonsense, but we've just been reminded that we need to watch what we say around here. To save time, let me say now that I'm sorry. I made this all up to make a point. The Devil made me do it. Please accept my apology. -- Gary, a man of tremendous character and understanding. ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 13:29:41 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8931637B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8792143F3F for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com ([68.11.249.216]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030223212939.BEQK22825.lakemtao04.cox.net@vwinxp.threespace.com> for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:29:39 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223150804.019c87f0@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:30:04 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:56 PM 2/23/2003, Darren Henderson wrote: >"jive" was as much a dialect as any other popular vernacular is for its >time. Its certainly not based of a centuries old stereotype. Its more >recent then hippie/flower child speak, beatnik, etc. And its no different >then the vernacular of present day MTV, hip-hop, or club crowd (insert >any subculture here that you like [subculture being a component of the >whole culture not a diminutive]). This is not true. "Jive" was originally a form of swing-out style dancing that originated around the turn of the century and became immensely popular during the big jazz explosion of the 20's. Since both the dance style and the music were born in the African-American community, the term "jive" is inextricably associated with African-Americans, despite the fact that the current usage has spread around the world. (See http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/swing.htm and http://ky.essortment.com/historyofjive_rklw.htm for more information.) The re-emergence of the term in the 70's in many black sitcoms (e.g., "Good Times" and "The Jeffersons") only helped to solidify that association. But the term existed long before hippies and beatniks to be sure. --Chip Morton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 14:54:35 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B363337B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (jasper.nighttide.net [207.5.141.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A79D43F75 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:54:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1NMsVC9045159 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:54:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from localhost (darren@localhost) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1NMsVV6045156 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:54:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) X-Authentication-Warning: olmec.nighttide.net: darren owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:54:31 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Henderson To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223150804.019c87f0@threespace.com> Message-ID: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223150804.019c87f0@threespace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Chip Morton wrote: > This is not true. "Jive" was originally a form of swing-out style dancing > that originated around the turn of the century and became immensely popular In the context of the filter in questions it was a 70's and early 80's fashion. I am aware of the origins of the word "jive" in the historical context of jazz - it doesn't apply to this situation. > The re-emergence of the term in the 70's in many black sitcoms (e.g., "Good > Times" and "The Jeffersons") only helped to solidify that association. But > the term existed long before hippies and beatniks to be sure. The term but not the dialect - and that was the issue I was addressing. Words usually have differning meanings over time and distance - this is paticularly true of english. The implied assertion that use of a dialect implies deeper and darker intentions. The use of "jive" as dialect is no more inherently offensive then is the use of a Maine brogue, a Georgia drawl, or a Cockney rhyme. Context and intent mean everyting. I personally find it frightening that such inherently chilling beliefs may be more widely held. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@nighttide.net Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 14:58:49 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FC537B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hindenburg.eboai.org (hindenburg.eboai.org [206.183.134.245]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A007A43FBF for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jtn@jtn.cx) Received: by hindenburg.eboai.org (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 2F3315E3DC; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:58:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:58:42 -0500 From: "Jason T. Nelson" To: Darren Henderson Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] Message-ID: <20030223225842.GA25321@jtn.cx> Reply-To: jtn@jtn.cx References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223150804.019c87f0@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Url: http://www.jtn.cx/~jtn/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In our last exciting episode, Darren Henderson (darren@nighttide.net) said: > I personally find it frightening that such inherently chilling beliefs may > be more widely held. I know this is getting too far off topic, but recall that the whole=20 "Politically Correct" movement seems to have consumed the minds of otherwise intelligent people all across America. The irony is that the whole concept of "tolerance" pushed by the PC-heads flies in the face of the attitude most of them commonly put forth. --=20 Jason T. Nelson http://www.jtn.cx/~jtn/ BOFH Extraordiaire & Sysadmin Ombudsman GPG key 0xFF676C9E GPG key fingerprint =3D 6272 5482 EDDD D0A3 FED2 262A FABB 599D FF67 6C9E disclaimer: My opinions are my own. Don't bother my employer about them. --J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+WVIi+rtZnf9nbJ4RAox/AKCUhE35LQ5WcIenTZxrAWQZhSNiIgCeInD4 qJR/fPPOgnsxhWudH06BbrA= =8clf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --J2SCkAp4GZ/dPZZf-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 16: 5:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2563937B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from firehouse.net (machine-254.firehouse.net [192.160.237.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AD87243F85 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:05:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alan-dated-1046477139.4ae4e3@clegg.com) Received: (qmail 83793 invoked by uid 85); 24 Feb 2003 00:05:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO machine-254.firehouse.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost.ncren.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2003 00:05:39 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:05:38 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] Message-ID: <20030224000538.GB70101@shazam.wetworks.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223150804.019c87f0@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223150804.019c87f0@threespace.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: "Alan B. Clegg" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.69 (Count Fleet) X-TMDA-Fingerprint: aLdx/NkipJy32iog5UQ2kdwQJQ4 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has nobody seen "Airplane"? http://us.imdb.com/Quotes?0080339 Enjoy! AlanC --=20 I must study politics and war that my sons | =20 may have liberty to study mathematics and | alan@clegg.com philosophy. -- John Adams | --4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+WWHRyJP8xSfQVdsRAmu7AJ4ucD+GfupEPiMQDb9aJTcQUdoZGQCgxq6h 6vgE5hn+Vsta2EByTeH1f7w= =sHGy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4SFOXa2GPu3tIq4H-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 16:10:33 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6343F37B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21DE43FBD for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (sentinel [10.0.0.150]) by digiflux.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1O09WK6027344; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:09:32 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E5962EA.9040502@digiflux.org> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:10:18 +0100 From: Stacy Olivas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20030208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stacy Olivas Cc: Willie Viljoen , rob spellberg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <200302221017.58496.will@unfoldings.net> <3E5791A0.4010203@digiflux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stacy Olivas wrote: > Willie Viljoen wrote: > >> On Saturday 22 February 2003 5:45, rob spellberg wrote: >> >> >>> if you re-read my post, you will find that i do --not-- say >>> that so should not circulate her thoughts. >>> >> >> >> Stacy is male, and "she" can circulate what ever thoughts "she" >> wants. While you dig your foot out of your mouth, "she" should >> continue with "her" work, if your sense of humor is too limited to >> accomodate that, simply do what anybody who doesn't want to get mail >> from a mailing list does, unsubscribe, it's a free world. You don't >> have to read our mail if you don't want to. >> >> > Thanks Willie.. Yes, please don't let the name fool you. I am > indeed male and not female. > > -Stacy > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 16:10:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC24D37B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EE043FA3 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (sentinel [10.0.0.150]) by digiflux.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1O09nK6027347; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:09:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E5962FB.1020305@digiflux.org> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:10:35 +0100 From: Stacy Olivas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20030208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stacy Olivas Cc: Chip Morton , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <3E578CE0.8020700@digiflux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stacy Olivas wrote: > Chip Morton wrote: > > > I have to second this one. I don't believe any malice was intended, > > but I don't think Stacy fully considered others' perspectives before > > this e-mail was sent. > > My apologies all for touching off a debate.. I was tired and figured > that after > reading a ton of arguments about this or this on this list, that a little > humor might be in order. > > As for the length of the GPL, my bad. Like I said, I was suffering from > a lack of sleep (and thus not clearly thinking before doing). > > If anybody was offended by this but of off-key humor, I wholeheartedly > apologize. > > > -Stacy > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 16:46:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7FE37B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D2B43F93 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:46:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (sentinel [10.0.0.150]) by digiflux.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1O0jmK6027540; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:45:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E596B6A.5090209@digiflux.org> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:46:34 +0100 From: Stacy Olivas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20030208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chip Morton Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chip Morton wrote: > At 08:44 AM 2/22/2003, you wrote: > >> If anybody was offended by this but of off-key humor, I wholeheartedly >> apologize. > > > > First off, I applaud you for your apology on this issue, Stacy. It > takes tremendous character and understanding to consider others' > perspectives, even when your own perspective tells you that you've > done nothing wrong. Thanks Chip. Like I said.. I was only trying to bring a little off-key humor to the list. I didn't realize that it would spark this kind of discussion. > > To all others who responded in favor of the humor or in defense of the > individual's right to free speech, I believe you've missed the point > entirely. The jive filter isn't based on a dialect; it's based on a > centuries old stereotype of African-American speech. The content of > the message wasn't funny at all. But even the mind-numbingly dull GPL > is funny when you make yourself up in blackface with big white lips > and add a little shuffle, isn't it? Hmm... True.. It is based on a stereotype that has been perpetuated by just about everyone. There is another message in this thread (after this one) that asks if anyone has seen Airplane (and it gives a link to the site with the quote in question). Anyone remember the two black guys on the plane who were talking "jive"? Then the little old lady stepped in to help (the stuardess, or is it flight attendant ? ) and translated between english and the "jive" talkers. > > The simple fact is that I think most of you are too far removed from > the group you're making fun of to understand why they wouldn't find > the joke nearly as funny. Despite being incredibly enlightened with > regard to technology, most of you are painfully ignorant with respect > to understanding anybody that's not as white-bread as you are. > Perhaps when somebody writes the homo filter or the habib filter or > the lo-wang filter or some other filter that strikes uncomfortably > close to home for you, then you'll understand. I do know that people within their own groups often times use what are considered racial remarks and stereotypical ways of talking/ acting jokingly. For example, how many people have heard the what I will refer to as the "N" word used between people of the same ethnicity in a way that was totally non-derogatory? Is it right to stereotype? No. However, taking what could be considered to be a stereotypical portrayal of a a group and turning it into something that is totally non-derogatory can be a good laugh by everyone. How many people out there laugh at Jeff Foxworthy AND are from the South? How many people laughed at Rudy Ray Moore's (a.k.a Dolomite) comedy? (Here's an interesting link: http://www.blaxploitation.com/) -Stacy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 17: 0:35 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC0537B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9E443FAF for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h1O10XF4004615 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HASG4X00.6MG; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:00:33 -0800 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:00:31 -0500 Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: FreeBSD Chat To: "Alan B. Clegg" From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <20030224000538.GB70101@shazam.wetworks.org> Message-Id: <5F3505EE-4793-11D7-B48B-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 07:05 PM, Alan B. Clegg wrote: > Has nobody seen "Airplane"? > > http://us.imdb.com/Quotes?0080339 > one of my favorite movies of all time :) June Cleaver translating jive was priceless heh. --Larry > Enjoy! > > AlanC > -- > I must study politics and war that my sons | > may have liberty to study mathematics and | alan@clegg.com > philosophy. -- John Adams | > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 17: 5:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AAFC37B405 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:05:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from blue.dls.net (blue.dls.net [209.242.10.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3023F43F3F for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:05:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (152-dls801.dls.net [216.145.235.152]) by blue.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B10A1203CF; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:05:18 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E596FD7.4FBCE809@emailrob.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:05:27 -0600 From: rob spellberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stacy Olivas Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: the apology [ was: Re: was this really necessary? ] References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <200302221017.58496.will@unfoldings.net> <3E5791A0.4010203@digiflux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stacy Olivas wrote: > Yes, please don't let the name fool you. I am > indeed male and not female. > > -Stacy stacy --- please accept my sincerest apologies for referring to you with feminine pronouns. i've been on this list for a couple of years now and nothing suggested to me that "stacy" was a male. i --did-- notice the spelling, but i have female friends who use this form, so it didn't really help. i assure you that no insult or other offense was intended by my incorrect identification of your gender. by way of explanation [ and not as an excuse ], most of my email goes to either people whom i have already met in person or to people who include a gender-specific title with their name. i hope you understand. rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 17:14:14 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B97737B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from blue.dls.net (blue.dls.net [209.242.10.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E782143F93 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (152-dls801.dls.net [216.145.235.152]) by blue.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9730D1203CF for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:14:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E5971EB.83756A2@emailrob.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:14:19 -0600 From: rob spellberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <200302221017.58496.will@unfoldings.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Willie Viljoen wrote: > > On Saturday 22 February 2003 5:45, rob spellberg wrote: > > if you re-read my post, you will find that i do --not-- say > > that so should not circulate her thoughts. > > Stacy is male, and "she" can circulate what ever thoughts "she" wants. While > you dig your foot out of your mouth, "she" should continue with "her" work, > if your sense of humor is too limited to accomodate that, simply do what > anybody who doesn't want to get mail from a mailing list does, unsubscribe, > it's a free world. You don't have to read our mail if you don't want to. > -- > Willie Viljoen > Freelance IT Consultant hmmm.... if that's all you can find to disagree about, i guess you agree with everything else. thank you for your support. rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 23 18:45:23 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8F037B401 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from blue.dls.net (blue.dls.net [209.242.10.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5C143FCB for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (152-dls801.dls.net [216.145.235.152]) by blue.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9062120010 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:45:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3E598746.EE62B0FF@emailrob.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:45:26 -0600 From: rob spellberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason T. Nelson" wrote: > > In our last exciting episode, rob spellberg (emailrob@emailrob.com) said: > > i read that you are big on the "right to free speech". > > i do so hate to get legalistic on you and > > i am not being the least bit faux here but, > > in the usa, it's actually a "privilege". > > that's because our constitution has an amendment process. > > our much ballyhooed first amendment --is-- repealable. > > all it takes is for 2/3 each of our house and senate and > > 3/4 of our states to think that > > "it seemed like a good idea at the time." > > And this is particularly why we have the 2nd amendment; the second the US > federal government tries this is the day I march on Washington armed to > defend my rights as defined in our Constitution (and I wouldn't be alone, I > assure you). I doubt you could seriously consider that Congress attempting > this stupidity as "representing" our citizens' interests. > > > just think: if it wasn't for that pesky first amendment, > > we could finally pass a meaningful "hate speech code". > > I really, REALLY, hope you are joking here. > > -- > Jason T. Nelson http://www.jtn.cx/~jtn/ yes, i am; but you are not to blame for not being certain you recognized it. because i am not a frequent poster to this list, readers do not have, as yet, sufficient experience with my writing style to be able to tell the difference. originally, i was making a distinction between rights and privileges. privileges entail responsibilities; rights don't. i reserve, in perpetuity, a non-exclusive right to be wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------- because the concern you express is so important, for the record, i am somewhere to the right of [ in no particular order, some people who are well known ]: rush limbaugh, charlton heston, walter e. williams, newt gingrich, larry kudlow, larry elder, the late barry goldwater [ before he went off his nut ], ann coulter, matt drudge [ it's almost show time ], sean hannity, george will [ don't watch him anymore ], laura ingraham, peggy noonan, the late barbara olson, kellyanne conway, "dick the butcher" [ a fictional character, just like candice bergen ], brit hume, fred barnes, john mclaughlin, armstrong williams, oliver north, glenn hubbard [ read the economic report of the president ], lynne and dick cheney, w and [ cue the choir ] ronald reagan. protect the first ten amendments. repeal the XVI, XVII, XXII and XXVI amendments. cut spending. cut taxes on net producers. tax the freeloaders. if immigrants want to come here to work, let's find a way to make them all legal; then they can't be exploited and we can tax them just like all of the rest of us. stake burning is too good for terrorists. free trade is good. world trade is good. low tariffs are good. growth is good. going nuclear is a slap in the face to the oil sheiks. my favorite sheik is the late sheik yerbouti. capitalism is the best means ever invented to channel the natural ambition and aggression of males into non-violent and socially productive pursuits. socialism produces freeloaders. --------------------------------------------------------------------- i could go on for pages, but this should be sufficient to allay your fears. rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 0:38:33 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A8537B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E6A43F3F for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:38:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (sentinel [10.0.0.150]) by digiflux.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1O8bTK6030097; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:37:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3E59D9F9.6090209@digiflux.org> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:38:17 +0100 From: Stacy Olivas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20030208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rob spellberg Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> <3E598746.EE62B0FF@emailrob.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rob spellberg wrote: >> >> >>>just think: if it wasn't for that pesky first amendment, >>> we could finally pass a meaningful "hate speech code". >>> >>> >>I really, REALLY, hope you are joking here. >> >>-- >>Jason T. Nelson http://www.jtn.cx/~jtn/ >> >> > > >yes, i am; > but you are not to blame for not being certain you recognized it. > >because i am not a frequent poster to this list, > readers do not have, as yet, > sufficient experience with my writing style > to be able to tell the difference. > >originally, i was making a distinction between rights and privileges. >privileges entail responsibilities; rights don't. > >i reserve, in perpetuity, a non-exclusive right to be wrong. > >------------------------------------------------------------------- > >because the concern you express is so important, > for the record, i am somewhere to the right of > [ in no particular order, some people who are well known ]: > > rush limbaugh, > charlton heston, > walter e. williams, > newt gingrich, > larry kudlow, > larry elder, > the late barry goldwater [ before he went off his nut ], > ann coulter, > matt drudge [ it's almost show time ], > sean hannity, > george will [ don't watch him anymore ], > laura ingraham, > peggy noonan, > the late barbara olson, > kellyanne conway, > "dick the butcher" [ a fictional character, just like candice bergen ], > brit hume, > fred barnes, > john mclaughlin, > armstrong williams, > oliver north, > glenn hubbard [ read the economic report of the president ], > lynne and dick cheney, > w and [ cue the choir ] > ronald reagan. > >protect the first ten amendments. >repeal the XVI, XVII, XXII and XXVI amendments. >cut spending. >cut taxes on net producers. >tax the freeloaders. >if immigrants want to come here to work, > let's find a way to make them all legal; > then they can't be exploited and > we can tax them just like all of the rest of us. >stake burning is too good for terrorists. >free trade is good. >world trade is good. >low tariffs are good. >growth is good. >going nuclear is a slap in the face to the oil sheiks. >my favorite sheik is the late sheik yerbouti. > >capitalism is the best means ever invented to > channel the natural ambition and aggression of males into > non-violent and socially productive pursuits. > >socialism produces freeloaders. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >i could go on for pages, > but this should be sufficient to allay your fears. > > Here's a good quote that will probably sum up a lot of how people feel on this list: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Voltaire's biographer, describing his view of freedom of speech. -Stacy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 1:30:23 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4205737B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E8843F85 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:30:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0041.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.41] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18nEw5-0006KO-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:30:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3E59E5CC.9D996EC5@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:28:44 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stacy Olivas Cc: rob spellberg , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <3E56F25F.3B09AB9F@emailrob.com> <20030222204314.GA52476@jtn.cx> <3E598746.EE62B0FF@emailrob.com> <3E59D9F9.6090209@digiflux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a410a5bd9de588a40dac9cc26b5178e8b8667c3043c0873f7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stacy Olivas wrote: > rob spellberg wrote: > >i could go on for pages, > > but this should be sufficient to allay your fears. > > > > > > Here's a good quote that will probably sum up a lot of > how people feel on this list: > > "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your > right to say it" > > -Voltaire's biographer, describing his view of freedom of speech. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to die in a fire of suspicious origin" -- Anthony Chamberlin -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 5:58:28 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F4A37B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.213.64.2] (firewall.tiadon.com [204.213.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B02544336 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:24:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from rmc.tiadon.com by [204.213.64.2] via smtpd (for mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) with ESMTP; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:24:58 -0600 Received: from applications.tiadon.com (mail.tiadon.com [172.16.18.172]) by bcec01.tiadon.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id DKV288GN; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:23:06 -0600 Received: from firewall.tiadon.com ([204.213.64.32]) by applications.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:21:14 -0600 Received: from [204.213.64.32] by firewall.tiadon.com via smtpd (for mail.tiadon.com [172.16.18.172]) with ESMTP; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:21:11 -0600 Received: from DaleCoportable ([204.213.65.217]) by smtp.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:32:21 -0600 Message-ID: <01fb01c2db71$8f4d4b30$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> Reply-To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." From: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Giorgos Keramidas" , "William Palfreman" Cc: References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <20030222010251.Y318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> <20030222023455.GA85072@gothmog.gr> Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:27:07 -0600 Organization: DaleCo, S.P.---"the solutions people" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2003 19:32:21.0790 (UTC) FILETIME=[49095BE0:01C2DB72] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: "Giorgos Keramidas" To: "William Palfreman" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] > I think we can tolerate a fair amount of humour on this list. No, > pardon me. `Tolerate' is a very unfitting term. We *need* jokes. > After some of the threads I've seen, humour makes my mornings just a > tiny bit brighter :-) > > I mean, I've seen much more 'offensive' stuff posted here. Not that > Stacy's posts were. Putting the length of the GPL post aside (which > was probably what my 28.8 modem will call offensive any day :P) I had > a great laugh. > > BTW, has anyone tried reading Slashdot! in jive? It's, uhm, in lack > of a better word `interesting'. > No, but I put the GPL through the 'moron' filter until I read the part that said: Ebehyone is pehmittid to copy 'n distriboot behbatim copies of dis license documin, but changigg it is not allowebuhd. --- so then I deleted it ;) Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have no reputation to protect..... ++++++++++++++++++++++++ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 9:11:37 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9BB37B401; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay.omnis.com (smtp-relay.omnis.com [216.239.128.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C2E43FBF; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:11:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from salty.rapid.stbernard.com (corp-2.ipinc.com [199.245.188.2]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9D244345; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.com To: Santos , Greg 'groggy' Lehey Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:02:50 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: developers@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> In-Reply-To: <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday 22 February 2003 19:18, Santos wrote: > Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > I've just received the following spam from Yahoo!, not for the first > > time. I've complained in the past, and have had no response. So: I'm > > blocking them. They're no longer the good guys in my eyes. > > > > If you are using Yahoo!, you will not be able to send mail to me. You > > will be able to contact me if you put a yahoo.com address in the > > Reply-To: header. > > > > Greg > > Why not a whitelist? I seriously doubt that the spamers will reply. > And the people with good intentions will be able to contact you. It > will cut spam in a efective way. So will SpamAssassin, and without resorting to killing the messenger. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 12:52:15 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462E737B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F0A43FB1 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18nPa3-0007Dw-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:52:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:52:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: when are unsolicited sales okay? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can an unsolicited sales pitch ever be appropriate? Some people and businesses don't like door-to-door sales. (I don't mind the very infrequent religious, chiropractic or vote-seeker coming to my door.) All of us (I assume) are against unsolicited email sales letters. I dislike getting phone calls to my home trying to sell me new roofs, better security systems, windshields, vacation packages, etc. I don't mind receiving a few sales pitches to my business telephone line if they are related to my work. (I only receive about one per week.) But I dislike receiving offers for windshield crack repairs to my business phone. I usually don't care about the tens of sales letters I receive each week; sometimes I receive something interesting. I do care that I waste some time recycling. And I do mind that natural resources are probably being wasted. I don't receive unsolicited faxes anymore. But a few years ago, I used to receive sales pitches by fax, but it was because my number was similar or used to be some other companies. (So this hasn't been an issue.) Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 14:31:34 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2207837B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9849643FBF for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:31:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0300.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.45] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18nR7z-00074K-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:31:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3E5A9CE4.9FDFF721@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:29:56 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4ea23920f7fb6278a5355acb9c3d12ec72601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? When you are not throwing crap at the wall hoping some will stick. When you have a reasonable expectation that I'd be interested in your offer (you personally thinking "it's a great offer!" is not enough). When we have a preexisting business arrangement on a related basis. When you are not *already* selling me the newspaper. Never call me if you are selling buying club memberships. Ever. Never call me if you are going to talk over me with your pitch, and not let me interject my disinterest in your product until you are completely done. It really wastes your time. When you can guarantee I will actually save money because you can run my historical records from my current company through your billing algorithm, and the number you came up with is lower. This last one requires you engage in illegal activities, but, hey, the industrial espionage rap is your problem, not mine. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 14:39:28 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFCC37B405 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57AEB43FDF for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1OMdOBF035548; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:39:24 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with UUCP id h1OMdOW4035547; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:39:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grimreaper.grondar.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1OMaBPE011053; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:36:11 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200302242236.h1OMaBPE011053@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:52:06 PST." Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:36:11 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? When the salesman has done his homework, and is sure (for a non-controversial definition of "sure") that his product is appropriate to you. AND when he is doing this at an appropriate time (ie: sell me work stuff at work and home stuff at home, BUT ONLY IF NOT BUGGING ME). Supper time is _OUT_, etc. This mostly makes home sales off-limits. (I _love_ door-to-door salesmen. Can you tell?) M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 15:35:34 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005A437B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (jasper.nighttide.net [207.5.141.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F2643FAF for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:35:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1ONZUC9050291 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:35:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from localhost (darren@localhost) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1ONZUrT050288 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:35:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) X-Authentication-Warning: olmec.nighttide.net: darren owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:35:30 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Henderson To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] In-Reply-To: <3E596B6A.5090209@digiflux.org> Message-ID: References: <00bc01c2d93e$452d1f60$0502000a@sentinel> <4.3.2.7.2.20030221181620.01b7ded8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> <3E596B6A.5090209@digiflux.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Stacy Olivas wrote: > Is it right to stereotype? No. However, taking what could be considered > to be a stereotypical portrayal of a a group and turning it into something > that is totally non-derogatory can be a good laugh by everyone. While agreeing with the gist of this paragraph I do not agree that stereotyping is "bad" - its a valuable tool. It's a survival tool, its a thinking tool, its a memory tool. It is imporant that we be able to move past sterotypes when necessary but they are required to live. You have to have a reference point from which to base evaluations of new situtations. Telling children to be wary of strangers sets up a stereotype, and I hope most would agree that it is a valuable one. One downside of stereotyping is the vast monstrosity of marketing it allows. Demographics, product surveys, etc all lead to "stereotypes" that allow them neatly drop us all into buckets of desires and tastes. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@nighttide.net Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 15:44:59 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81AA537B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:44:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (jasper.nighttide.net [207.5.141.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18ACB43F3F for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:44:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1ONitC9050322; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:44:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from localhost (darren@localhost) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1ONisNV050319; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:44:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) X-Authentication-Warning: olmec.nighttide.net: darren owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:44:54 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Henderson To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Can an unsolicited sales pitch ever be appropriate? Never. Period. That does not preclude businesses with whom you have a on going relationship with sending you mails if you give the OK, but the > Some people and businesses don't like door-to-door sales. (I don't mind > the very infrequent religious, chiropractic or vote-seeker coming to my > door.) Most of us will tolerate quite a bit until it becomes intrusive. In most communities there is a brake on door-to-door solicitations - you usually are required to at least tell them you are going to be in the area doing x, y or z. We don't get many door to door callers but it #$@#$ me off every time one shows up - especially the religious types, (talk about presumptuous and insulting). > I usually don't care about the tens of sales letters I receive each week; > sometimes I receive something interesting. I do care that I waste some > time recycling. And I do mind that natural resources are probably being > wasted. SPAM is intrusive - for the most part junk mail is not - and you don't have to pay to have it delivered. Key concepts that most spamers do not recognize (actually I think they do but just don't care). > I don't receive unsolicited faxes anymore. But a few years ago, I used to We finally had to shut down my wife's fax line - dozens of pages of cruise ship, toner ads, etc. You can't get the phone company interested and while we at one time almost had the government on they either lost interest or we were cast adrift in the bureaucracy. > Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? Never. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@nighttide.net Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 16:55:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D06937B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.k12us.com (mail.k12us.com [65.112.222.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B4F143F93 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:55:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cweimann@k12hq.com) Received: (qmail 86307 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Feb 2003 00:55:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:55:40 -0500 From: Christopher Weimann To: Darren Henderson Cc: "Jeremy C. Reed" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? Message-ID: <20030224195540.G83254@mail.k12us.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from darren@nighttide.net on Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 06:44:54PM -0500 X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AMaViS 0.2.1 (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 02/24/2003-06:44:54PM -0500, Darren Henderson wrote: > > SPAM is intrusive - for the most part junk mail is not - and you don't > have to pay to have it delivered. > Yuu may not have to pay for delivery but you do have to pay to have it hauled away. I think a pretty large percentage of my trash can is dedicated to junk mail. The worst offenders being catalogs and supermarket flyers. Even if you don't get a separate bill for your trash you still pay for it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 19:31: 8 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DDCD37B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:31:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8855543FCB for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:31:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 18nVo6-0000I6-01; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:31:02 +0100 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1P359t0094767 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:05:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h1P359Rv094766 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:05:09 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:05:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Can an unsolicited sales pitch ever be appropriate? Maybe it's my limited imagination, but I can't think of any such case. > Some people and businesses don't like door-to-door sales. (I don't mind > the very infrequent religious, chiropractic or vote-seeker coming to my > door.) I don't like them and I do mind. However, they are too infrequent to get riled up about. The moment I realize they're trying to pitch something, I shut the door. If I had a couple of them at my doorstep every day, I would probably be very pissed. > All of us (I assume) are against unsolicited email sales letters. 15121 since Sep 20, 1999. I'm not amused. > I dislike getting phone calls to my home trying to sell me new roofs, > better security systems, windshields, vacation packages, etc. I think these are illegal in this part of the world. Very rare. I'm even unhappy about them in the case of a pre-existing business relationship like my car dealer trying to push old inventory on me, or those customer satisfaction polls, etc. > I don't mind receiving a few sales pitches to my business telephone line > if they are related to my work. I do mind. In particular if they are sleazy investment schemes aimed at conning small business owners out of their money, which are about the only ones to ever call, and if they can't take no for an answer, which again seems to be the norm. Too infrequent to get riled up about, though. > I usually don't care about the tens of sales letters I receive each week; > sometimes I receive something interesting. I almost threw my new credit card into the trashcan because I mistook the envelope for junk mail. Yes, I do mind. The volume is too low to get really riled up about, though. > I don't receive unsolicited faxes anymore. Illegal and I don't have a fax machine. > Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? No idea. You tell me. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 21:57:52 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DEF37B401; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547FB43F93; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:57:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id EEAC054252; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:27:35 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:27:35 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: Santos , developers@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Message-ID: <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Monday, 24 February 2003 at 9:02:50 -0800, Wes Peters wrote: > On Saturday 22 February 2003 19:18, Santos wrote: >> Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >>> I've just received the following spam from Yahoo!, not for the first >>> time. I've complained in the past, and have had no response. So: I'm >>> blocking them. They're no longer the good guys in my eyes. >>> >>> If you are using Yahoo!, you will not be able to send mail to me. You >>> will be able to contact me if you put a yahoo.com address in the >>> Reply-To: header. >>> >>> Greg >> >> Why not a whitelist? I seriously doubt that the spamers will reply. >> And the people with good intentions will be able to contact you. It >> will cut spam in a efective way. > > So will SpamAssassin, and without resorting to killing the > messenger. You're missing the point. This message was send by Yahoo!, not an anonymous spammer. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+WwXPIubykFB6QiMRAk/7AJ9jc/U2+KdeHByezyqf1tgqyhe5jgCfb4TZ AtXH5Kr20JLzwcDbu9K5chk= =5JUK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 21:58:50 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EECC937B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:58:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA3B43F93 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:58:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10294; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:58:15 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030224225745.031b77e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:58:12 -0700 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:52 PM 2/24/2003, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: >Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? When Hades freezes over. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 22:18:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F64A37B401; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB6A43FE0; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oberdorf@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-175-68.nycmny83.covad.net ([69.3.175.68] helo=earthlink.net) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18nYPp-0002mp-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:18:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3E5B0A9F.4030306@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:18:07 -0500 From: Oliver Oberdorf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org trimmed to chat; though I sincerely hope the thread ends here Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >You're missing the point. This message was send by Yahoo!, not an >anonymous spammer. > > Yes, and then you forwarded a complete copy to all of us. I suppose I wasn't getting enough already on my own. I understand your frustration with spam. I've seen some simple suggestions on filtering the special offers and not the real people. You may take them or not; I don't think this thread has anything more useful to say. -Oly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 24 23: 7: 0 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69CCB37B401 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:06:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.20.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D35443F85 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:06:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au) Received: from elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au (elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.18.41]) by ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1P6Va3J010530 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:31:41 +1100 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: JacobRhoden Organization: University of Melbourne To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:31:36 +1100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200302251731.36435.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday 25 February 2003 16:57, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > You're missing the point. This message was send by Yahoo!, not an > anonymous spammer. I recieved the exact same spam emails that you did. My very very simple p= erl=20 script spam filter managed to block both of them without blocking all yah= oo=20 addresses. Why block domains when most spam can be blocked with=20 keywords/baysian filters? While were on the subject, it may be a commonly asked question, im not su= re,=20 but is there not some server side filtering of spam from freebsd, it=20 currently makes up 10% of all my spam recieved? (My conservative filters = at=20 this end manage to catch most of the freebsd spam with no false positives= ). I=20 should think it would save some cpu cycles and bandwidth to filter? - jacob Jacob Rhoden Phone: +61 3 8344 6102 ITS Division Email: jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 5:15:38 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959EA37B405 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from murdoch.servitor.co.uk (murdoch.servitor.co.uk [217.151.99.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C59443F93 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from mmu-firewall.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.101.200] helo=miter96pq2w1fz) by murdoch.servitor.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 18nevm-000DTE-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:15:34 +0000 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "Darren Henderson" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:15:33 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > "jive" was as much a dialect as any other popular vernacular is for its > time. Its certainly not based of a centuries old stereotype. Its more > recent then hippie/flower child speak, beatnik, etc. And its no different > then the vernacular of present day MTV, hip-hop, or club crowd (insert > any subculture here that you like [subculture being a component of the > whole culture not a diminutive]). Actually, the history of jive is an interesting one. If I remember correctly, the Legion of Doom created to make fun of another hacking group that they hated called Masters of Deception. LoD was composed mostly of white middle-class kids whose parents would buy them the latest and greatest hardware they asked for. MoD had to make do with scrabbling around for bits of kit in bins and were generally C64 freaks at the time. I'm sure that the fact that they were all Afro-Carribean didn't come into. In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white middle-class pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 5:25:37 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5361D37B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from murdoch.servitor.co.uk (murdoch.servitor.co.uk [217.151.99.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10C743F85 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from mmu-firewall.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.101.200] helo=miter96pq2w1fz) by murdoch.servitor.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 18nf5S-000DTz-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:25:34 +0000 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "Paul Robinson" , "Darren Henderson" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: RE: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is what happens when you try to write a mail whilst your boss is talking to you and you're supervising an OS X fix at the same time. The post was obviously talking about the software "jive", not the dialect. > fact that they were all Afro-Carribean didn't come into. That should read "didn't come into it". > In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white middle-class > pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. "wanting to make fun" reads better. Sorry, just in case it didn't make sense. Incidentally, as to whether you think jive is appropriate or not, I don't care about. I doubt I would post stuff up in an attempt to make fun of a particular dialect. I also doubt I would use software written with the express intent of causing racial abuse to do it as well. Just my 0.02GBP. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 5:31:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832FE37B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:31:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA2D43FA3 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0004.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.4] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18nfAt-0003Bg-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:31:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3E5B6FC9.11EF20BE@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:29:45 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson Cc: Darren Henderson , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4f8b923bc75cb6d4953a14bf5bd45114d387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul Robinson wrote: > In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white middle-class > pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. s/pricks/kids/ s/kids/pricks/ ...take your pick. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 6:49:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC1E37B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:49:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.laserfence.net (apollo.laserfence.net [196.44.69.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101BB43FB1 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@unfoldings.net) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ngNj-000Jka-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:48:31 +0200 Received: from prometheus-p0.datel.laserfence.net ([192.168.255.1] helo=prometheus.home.laserfence.net) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ngNF-000Jk7-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:48:06 +0200 Received: from phoenix.home.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.2]) by prometheus.home.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ngN3-00027Y-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:47:49 +0200 Received: from will by phoenix.home.laserfence.net with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ngN0-0003ka-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:47:46 +0200 From: Willie Viljoen To: "Paul Robinson" , "Darren Henderson" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:47:45 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302251647.45951.will@unfoldings.net> X-Spam-Score: (/) X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18ngNF-000Jk7-00*GSnFR03Qdxc* X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020422 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday 25 February 2003 15:15, someone, possibly Paul Robinson, typed: > In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white > middle-class pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. I've been quietly following the ongoing debate about jive. I have found some of these posts rather amusing, including one a few days ago where the author thought we would all find offensive if it hit close to home... Living in South Africa, I am closer to this than most readers may think, and I feel this is the appropriate time to jump in. As most of you know by now, South Africa made the transition to a Western-style democracy in 1994 after a stretched-out armed struggle against the Apartheid regime was ended with the regime conseding to the populous. The party responsible for the most efforts made in the struggle was the African National Congress. The ANC is today, the party in power in SA. What bothers me is that, even though the ANC are now in power, ANC politicians still blaim the white middle classes for absolutely everything. This includes the crime rate, inequities in society, anything they want to. If the white middle classes just can't be blaimed, colonists are the next soft target. In public depates, ANC politicians, when asked questions pertaining to government policy, corruption, legislation they themselves do not fully understand, etc, will almost always evade the journalist or opposition politician's question with a pre-fabricated responce, that will always contain: "... the problem... in the struggle... ". It seems that the ANC member I am talking about here are suffering from what I can only call political shell shock. Regardless of the fact that the struggle is long over, the so called "white elite" is still the enimy. It saddens me to think that while the civil rights struggle in the United States ended a long time ago, citizens there still suffer from the same shell shock. I am not going to be popular for saying this, but had this been a majority group being made fun of, they wouldn't mind, and neither would anybody else, but simply because somebody may have inadvertantly poked some fun at this group, just because they have been wronged greatly in the past, they are immediately back on the defensive. The original post that started this battle was really poking fun at some legal licensing documents, why should it immediately become a political issue? Go ahead, make some fun of us white middle class pricks, as I see the perfectly innocent white middle class of today, which had nothing to do with the problems of many years ago, are now bing called. We don't mind, we enjoy having fun poked at us, it reminds us that humor exists in the world. Here in South Africa in fact, we get made fun of more than any other group around, and it's only a very small group of individuals who have a problem with this, the same small group who would rather SA go back to where it were 15 years ago, a periah state. Oh and yes, this does not bode well for my CV does it. I encourage everybody to do Google searches on my name, and you can all read how many people I have offended and what sorts of things I have said to them. That sort of intimidation is just below the level, and I don't care if a prospective employer reads this either. If somebody wants to hire me, better they know that I won't take the politically acceptable stance, or follow orders like a wind-up drone. It is time that minority groups forgive and forget. How do you plan on moving forward if after every single bit of fun being poked at you, or something being said about you, you have to make a big issue out of it? I'd much rather prefer making progress, and being made fun of at the same time, than wasting my time complaining about being made fun of, and making no progress. I'm not saying the European community weren't oppressive in the past, ofcourse we were, but that's no reason to continue the fray at every opportunity today, is it? We have apologised profusely and sincerely for what was done wrong in the past, infact, those who have apologized have mostly done no wrong themselves, but were just apologizing for the sins of their fathers. The way I understand the world, the way to respond to an apology is to accept it, forgive the person or party if they mean it, and move on. Nobody meant anybody any harm with the jive post, the author of the post I am writing in reply to goes as far as to call the filter "racial abuse". If anything, the poster was abuse of some laywers, who don't seem to mind much, as none of them have posted anything in this regard. Simply because a steriotypical dialect was used, the message is not automatically abuse. Here in South Africa, the dialect most steriotyped is the way Afrikaans people (descendants of the Dutch) speak English (or are unable to). This is made fun of by Africans and other European communities alike, and in return they themselves are made fun of, nobody seems to mind though. The last time I worried about being made fun of was in high school. If you have not progressed beyond that level, then I feel truly sorry for you. Will -- Willie Viljoen Freelance IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60 +27 51 522 44 36 (after hours) +27 82 404 03 27 (mobile) will@unfoldings.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 8:59:10 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0ECD37B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntli.com (pc1-glfd2-4-cust59.glfd.cable.ntl.com [81.99.187.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFF943FDD for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:59:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: from aqua.lan.palfreman.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ntli.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1PH2nqr021587; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:02:49 GMT (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: from localhost (william@localhost) by aqua.lan.palfreman.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id h1PH2mkl021584; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:02:48 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: aqua.lan.palfreman.com: william owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:02:48 +0000 (GMT) From: William Palfreman To: Paul Robinson Cc: Darren Henderson , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030225164633.P318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Paul Robinson wrote: > Actually, the history of jive is an interesting one. If I remember > correctly, the Legion of Doom created to make fun of another hacking group > that they hated called Masters of Deception. LoD was composed mostly of > white middle-class kids whose parents would buy them the latest and greatest > hardware they asked for. MoD had to make do with scrabbling around for bits > of kit in bins and were generally C64 freaks at the time. I'm sure that the > fact that they were all Afro-Carribean didn't come into. > > In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white middle-class > pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. Oh, you have got to be kidding. The amount of rubbish written on this list. I have never seen an ethnically homogenous hacker-group. I don't believe they exist. Hacking, and computers generally, transcends race. Now, Intel hardware and games consoles are owned by all different kinds of people. Then, C64s and, frankly, every other kind of hardware, also didn't not have a racial basis to it. You would have to be completely crazy to imagine that skin colour has _anything_, at all, to do with computers. You are talking about a technology, merit driven industry, not some government quango where you might be able to get away with this kind of fact-free attention seeking. -- W. Palfreman. I'm looking for a job: Tel: 0771 355 0354 http://www.palfreman.com/william/ for my CV. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 12: 2:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F78737B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63AD844126 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:54:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: (from rsidd@localhost) by papagena.rockefeller.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1PJook19521; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:50:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:50:50 -0500 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Willie Viljoen Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Message-ID: <20030225145050.F17048@papagena.rockefeller.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200302251647.45951.will@unfoldings.net> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.9-12smp i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Willie Viljoen wrote: > The party responsible for the most efforts made in the struggle was the > African National Congress. The ANC is today, the party in power in SA. > > What bothers me is that, even though the ANC are now in power, ANC > politicians still blaim the white middle classes for absolutely everything. > This includes the crime rate, inequities in society, anything they want to. > If the white middle classes just can't be blaimed, colonists are the next > soft target. Wow, how terrible. It's been, what, 9 long years since the transition, surely that should have been enough to heal the inequities of the previous two centuries of colonial and apartheid rule, right? Has it ever occurred to that the colonists may indeed *be* to blame for social inequalities? I agree that it's not helpful to harp on that; the country should look towards the future. But politicians are politicians, whatever their skin colour. My impression is that, on the whole, given its ghastly 20th-century history of oppression, South Africa has actually stepped above that quite well -- with Nelson Mandela, despite spending much of his life behind bars, emphasising reconciliation since the beginning of the post-apartheid era. The colonists should realize that they can't just sit back now and enjoy the fruits of 200 years of entrenched inequality, either: they need to take the lead in reforming the society (and I understand that many do, just as many whites were active in the anti-Apartheid struggle). Failure to do that will lead to a Zimbabwe-like situation -- which is a result of Britain and the local white community breaking their promises and failing to implement land reforms for 20 years after independence. I'm not trying to defend the despicable Mugabe. But we all hope South Africa will fare much better. - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 12: 9:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF0A37B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.laserfence.net (apollo.laserfence.net [196.44.69.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4616844225 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@unfoldings.net) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18nlDQ-000LZh-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:58:12 +0200 Received: from prometheus-p0.datel.laserfence.net ([192.168.255.1] helo=prometheus.home.laserfence.net) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18nlDC-000LZK-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:57:59 +0200 Received: from phoenix.home.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.2]) by prometheus.home.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18nlD7-0003Hc-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:57:53 +0200 Received: from will by phoenix.home.laserfence.net with local (Exim 4.10) id 18nlD6-0004EU-00; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:57:52 +0200 From: Willie Viljoen To: Rahul Siddharthan Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:57:52 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: chat@freebsd.org References: <20030225145050.F17048@papagena.rockefeller.edu> In-Reply-To: <20030225145050.F17048@papagena.rockefeller.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302252157.52451.will@unfoldings.net> X-Spam-Score: (/) X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18nlDC-000LZK-00*gqot98XPyEA* X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020422 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday 25 February 2003 21:50, someone, possibly Rahul Siddharthan, typed: > The colonists should realize that they can't just sit back now and > enjoy the fruits of 200 years of entrenched inequality, either: they > need to take the lead in reforming the society (and I understand that > many do, just as many whites were active in the anti-Apartheid > struggle). Failure to do that will lead to a Zimbabwe-like situation > -- which is a result of Britain and the local white community breaking > their promises and failing to implement land reforms for 20 years > after independence. I'm not trying to defend the despicable Mugabe. > But we all hope South Africa will fare much better. Well, given the situation in Zim, I would say we are doing much better, but the point I was making is that people should stop trying to politicize everything, at every oportunity. It's just not productive. Will -- Willie Viljoen Freelance IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60 +27 51 522 44 36 (after hours) +27 82 404 03 27 (mobile) will@unfoldings.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 12:30:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCAB37B401; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mailfreeway.com (216-210-205-21.atgi.net [216.210.205.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD7C43FF5; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elcott@mailfreeway.com) Received: by mail.mailfreeway.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id D7D10211FC2; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:34 -0800 (PST) From: "elcott" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Isn't today Troll Tuesday? Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:34 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [67.123.169.193] X-Domain-Source: [www.mailfreeway.com] webmail service X-URL-Source: [http://www.mailfreeway.com/mailbin/umm.cgi] Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20030225203034.D7D10211FC2@mail.mailfreeway.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ________________ ( Brett Glass!!! ) ---------------- o ^__^ o (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || --------------------- Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MailFreeway.com Join today its FREE! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 12:30:57 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F9537B405; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mailfreeway.com (216-210-205-21.atgi.net [216.210.205.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D9BA43FFB; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elcott@mailfreeway.com) Received: by mail.mailfreeway.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 74DE9211FC2; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:47 -0800 (PST) From: "elcott" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Isn't today Troll Tuesday? Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:30:47 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [67.123.169.193] X-Domain-Source: [www.mailfreeway.com] webmail service X-URL-Source: [http://www.mailfreeway.com/mailbin/umm.cgi] Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20030225203047.74DE9211FC2@mail.mailfreeway.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ________________ ( Brett Glass!!! ) ---------------- o ^__^ o (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || --------------------- Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MailFreeway.com Join today its FREE! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 12:31:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F8337B405; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mailfreeway.com (216-210-205-21.atgi.net [216.210.205.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F39C44020; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elcott@mailfreeway.com) Received: by mail.mailfreeway.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 5C9EB211FF5; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:34 -0800 (PST) From: "elcott" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: i386 tinderbox failure Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:34 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [67.123.169.193] X-Domain-Source: [www.mailfreeway.com] webmail service X-URL-Source: [http://www.mailfreeway.com/mailbin/umm.cgi] Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20030225203134.5C9EB211FF5@mail.mailfreeway.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ________________ ( Brett Glass!!! ) ---------------- o ^__^ o (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || --------------------- Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MailFreeway.com Join today its FREE! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 12:31:52 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1066537B406; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mailfreeway.com (216-210-205-21.atgi.net [216.210.205.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC0C44045; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elcott@mailfreeway.com) Received: by mail.mailfreeway.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id EC172211FC2; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:13 -0800 (PST) From: "elcott" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: IA-64 tinderbox failure Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:31:13 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [67.123.169.193] X-Domain-Source: [www.mailfreeway.com] webmail service X-URL-Source: [http://www.mailfreeway.com/mailbin/umm.cgi] Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20030225203113.EC172211FC2@mail.mailfreeway.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ________________ ( Brett Glass!!! ) ---------------- o ^__^ o (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || --------------------- Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MailFreeway.com Join today its FREE! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 13: 0:43 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3EA37B401; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C3A43FA3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.7/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h1PL0f2p002770; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.7/8.12.7/Submit) id h1PL0fD3002769; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:00:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:00:41 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" Cc: casd@myrealbox.com, developers@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Message-ID: <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Greg 'groggy' Lehey , casd@myrealbox.com, developers@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 04:27:35PM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > You're missing the point. This message was send by Yahoo!, not an > anonymous spammer. Are you sure you didn't sign up for the "SPAM" message when you created some Yahoo! account? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 13: 9:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A7E37B401; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.103.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A797D43FA3; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (localhost.caltech.edu [127.0.0.1]) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1PL9q3v020524; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h1PL9q3n020523; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:52 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: "David O'Brien" Cc: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , casd@myrealbox.com, developers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Message-ID: <20030225210952.GB20300@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 01:00:41PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: > Are you sure you didn't sign up for the "SPAM" message when you created > some Yahoo! account? He may have created the account, after which time Yahoo! "decided" that he wanted spam: http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,51461,00.html # In e-mail messages that began going out last week, Yahoo advised its # users that their account preferences had been changed, by Yahoo, to # indicate that they wanted to receive advertising solicitations through # spam, snail mail and telephone. -- Matthew Hunt * Clearly there are more things in the http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * heavens than anyone anticipated. -enp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 13:26:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0C237B401; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from elisha.daleco.biz (cdm-66-92-15-cart.cox-internet.com [66.76.92.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCD8B43F93; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable ([192.168.0.250]) by elisha.daleco.biz (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h1PLQ1md013992; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:26:01 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <00fc01c2dd14$4319bd80$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Matthew Hunt" , "David O'Brien" Cc: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , , References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> <20030225210952.GB20300@wopr.caltech.edu> Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:24:20 -0600 Organization: DaleCo, S.P. - "The Solutions People" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Hunt" > He may have created the account, ROFL! Why, in heavens' name... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 13:37:15 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB6E37B401; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF7B43F93; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:37:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id C976D5308; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:37:08 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Matthew Hunt Cc: "David O'Brien" , "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , casd@myrealbox.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:37:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20030225210952.GB20300@wopr.caltech.edu> (Matthew Hunt's message of "Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:09:52 -0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090014 (Oort Gnus v0.14) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> <20030225210952.GB20300@wopr.caltech.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please stop cross-posting -developers and -chat. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 14:41: 1 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B684337B401; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7782D43F93; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:40:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 14CA951A3A; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:10:52 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:10:52 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: David O'Brien , Matthew Hunt , "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: casd@myrealbox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Message-ID: <20030225224051.GK21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> <20030225210952.GB20300@wopr.caltech.edu> <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3E583D9C.9000204@myrealbox.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1X+6QtwRodzgDPAC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00fc01c2dd14$4319bd80$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <20030225210952.GB20300@wopr.caltech.edu> <20030225210041.GA2703@dragon.nuxi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --1X+6QtwRodzgDPAC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday, 25 February 2003 at 13:00:41 -0800, David O'Brien wrote: > On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 04:27:35PM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> You're missing the point. This message was send by Yahoo!, not an >> anonymous spammer. > > Are you sure you didn't sign up for the "SPAM" message when you created > some Yahoo! account? Yes. On Tuesday, 25 February 2003 at 13:09:52 -0800, Matthew Hunt wrote: > He may have created the account, after which time Yahoo! "decided" > that he wanted spam: > > http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,51461,00.html > > # In e-mail messages that began going out last week, Yahoo advised its > # users that their account preferences had been changed, by Yahoo, to > # indicate that they wanted to receive advertising solicitations through > # spam, snail mail and telephone. Yup, this looks like the one. I can't recall seeing the message, though. Maybe my spamassassin ate it :-) On Tuesday, 25 February 2003 at 15:24:20 -0600, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthew Hunt" > >> He may have created the account, > > ROFL! Why, in heavens' name... I checked yesterday, as did Peter Wemm. I created the account in question years ago only for travel information. The last cookie issued was to a location in Boston MA. We don't know the date of the last use, but the last time I was in Boston was in July 2001 for the USENIX convention. Of course I've closed the account. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. --1X+6QtwRodzgDPAC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+W/DzIubykFB6QiMRAgn9AJ4rwnL1yRBoyXCtYubXK29vCis1hQCgmif5 fesxif97bpaQhE/gl7EQQFQ= =ZlCP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1X+6QtwRodzgDPAC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 15:56:29 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5797A37B405 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:56:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from horkos.telenet-ops.be (horkos.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8605643F3F for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philip@paeps.cx) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by horkos.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with SMTP id ED32883C18 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from fortuna.home.paeps.cx (D5768746.kabel.telenet.be [213.118.135.70]) by horkos.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3CE383C14 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from juno.home.paeps.cx (juno.home.paeps.cx [10.0.0.2]) by fortuna.home.paeps.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3219520BF for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by juno.home.paeps.cx (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5858110AD; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:23 +0100 From: Philip Paeps To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? Message-ID: <20030225235623.GC579@juno.home.paeps.cx> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Date-in-Rome: ante diem IV Kalendas Martias MMDCCLVI ab Urbe Condida X-PGP-Fingerprint: FA74 3C27 91A6 79D5 F6D3 FC53 BF4B D0E6 049D B879 X-Message-Flag: Get a proper mailclient! Mutt: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2003-02-24 12:52:06 (-0800), Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Can an unsolicited sales pitch ever be appropriate? No. > Some people and businesses don't like door-to-door sales. (I don't mind the > very infrequent religious, chiropractic or vote-seeker coming to my door.) I do mind them, very much. I didn't mind the very infrequent religion salesmen until a few years ago when a pair of them decided to show up at an indecent hour of the morning (before noon) to Bring Me The Light. I told them quite frankly that my house was Blessed with electric lighting and to push off. Since then, I've not had problems with religious groups anymore. What I also mind _very_ much are street-salesmen clamping on to me when I'm walking through town. I particularly dislike the kind that can't take 'shove off' for an answer, and try to sell me something for the better part of the way to my car or office or home (whichever is applicable). > All of us (I assume) are against unsolicited email sales letters. Definitely. > I dislike getting phone calls to my home trying to sell me new roofs, better > security systems, windshields, vacation packages, etc. So do I. Unless someone has been on my roof or inside my building, they really shouldn't be forming opinions on the roofs or the security systems. When I want to go on vacation, I'll make my own arrangements. > I don't mind receiving a few sales pitches to my business telephone line if > they are related to my work. (I only receive about one per week.) Oh I _loathe_ those... They always tend to call when I'm in the middle of something, and short of ripping the cord out, or tossing the phone out the window, there's no way of getting rid of the twits at the other end. Luckily, they don't occur too frequently. Perhaps salesmen keep 'black lists' of people not to call because they treat them rudely? I hope they do :-) > But I dislike receiving offers for windshield crack repairs to my business > phone. Don't think I ever got that offer, but I see your point, and agree completely! > I usually don't care about the tens of sales letters I receive each week; > sometimes I receive something interesting. I do care that I waste some time > recycling. And I do mind that natural resources are probably being wasted. I now have a sticker on my mailbox discouraging junk mail. The town hall 'issues' these stickers to citizens wanting them. The few pieces that come through, I'm mailing back to the sender, void of stamp. The 'addressed' junk mail I receive with the 'postage paid by recipient' envelopes inside, I mail back in the provided envelope. I hope they recycle it for me, and get the hint that I'm not interested. Perhaps I should forge the 'recipient is deceased' stickers the post puts on letters when they can't be delivered to people who've expired? > I don't receive unsolicited faxes anymore. But a few years ago, I used to > receive sales pitches by fax, but it was because my number was similar or > used to be some other companies. (So this hasn't been an issue.) I don't own a fax, so I'm okay there. Anyone still 'actively' using a fax should evolve, imo... > Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? Never. - Philip [difficult customer] -- Philip Paeps Please don't CC me, I am philip@paeps.cx subscribed to the list. A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you look forward to the trip. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 19:46:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6429837B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-52.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D10543F85 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:46:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA248679DA; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D1FAE124C; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:46:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:46:10 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: JacobRhoden Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Message-ID: <20030226034610.GA81699@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302251731.36435.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302251731.36435.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 05:31:36PM +1100, JacobRhoden wrote: > While were on the subject, it may be a commonly asked question, im not su= re,=20 > but is there not some server side filtering of spam from freebsd, it=20 > currently makes up 10% of all my spam recieved? Yes it is, and yes it does. FreeBSD is an ENORMOUS spam target, and the hard work done by the postmasters manages to block all but a tiny fraction of it. Kris --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+XDiCWry0BWjoQKURAgIMAKCEZbT5FCojqxpdmHH4Koe2iHBiRACeO+aF LVlX3myod+smz1wGEO0ZfWw= =z2Mi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 22:21: 1 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8483C37B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7E543FBF for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:20:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com ([68.11.249.216]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030226062057.KAJE6744.lakemtao02.cox.net@vwinxp.threespace.com> for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:20:57 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030225234336.01a452b8@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:50:40 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul, I personally have to thank you for this bit of history. While I certainly had the feeling that the authors of this program were engaging in the worst kind of racial stereotyping, I couldn't manage to quite find any proof until I had the references to the Legion of Doom and Masters of Deception. They produced the following excerpts in my searches: ..... Using the jive program is the electronic equivalent of appearing in blackface - a crude, minstrel show in cyberspace: "Some nigga' name Co'rupt, havin' been real active befo'e, duzn't gots' some so'kin' computa' anymo'e and so ... sheeit, duh." (at http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.12/hacker_pr.html) Jive turns regular English into "the electronic equivalent of blackface" -- replete with uses of the word "nigger" and phrases like "slap mah 'fro." (at http://www.kkc.net/eyenet/1995/net0817.htm) ...... So I think we can pretty much kill the pseudo-ignorant "Oh it wasn't poking fun at anybody specifically" attitude. --Chip Morton At 07:15 AM 2/25/2003, Paul Robinson wrote: >Actually, the history of jive is an interesting one. If I remember >correctly, the Legion of Doom created to make fun of another hacking group >that they hated called Masters of Deception. LoD was composed mostly of >white middle-class kids whose parents would buy them the latest and greatest >hardware they asked for. MoD had to make do with scrabbling around for bits >of kit in bins and were generally C64 freaks at the time. I'm sure that the >fact that they were all Afro-Carribean didn't come into. > >In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white middle-class >pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 22:38:54 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD42637B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:38:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8B143FAF for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:38:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com ([68.11.249.216]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030226063849.KCHH6744.lakemtao02.cox.net@vwinxp.threespace.com> for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:38:49 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030226002232.01a90080@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:39:30 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) In-Reply-To: <20030225164633.P318@ndhn.yna.cnyserzna.pbz> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:02 AM 2/25/2003, William Palfreman wrote: >On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Paul Robinson wrote: > > In other words, jive owes it's existence to a desire of white middle-class > > pricks to make fun of black working-class kids. > >Oh, you have got to be kidding. The amount of rubbish written on this >list. I have never seen an ethnically homogenous hacker-group. I don't >believe they exist. Hacking, and computers generally, transcends race. >Now, Intel hardware and games consoles are owned by all different kinds >of people. Then, C64s and, frankly, every other kind of hardware, also >didn't not have a racial basis to it. You would have to be completely >crazy to imagine that skin colour has _anything_, at all, to do with >computers. You are talking about a technology, merit driven industry, >not some government quango where you might be able to get away with this >kind of fact-free attention seeking. Yeah, merit driven. That's why Microsoft is the richest software company the world has ever seen. They write the best software. And I can only imagine what great rewards FreeBSD Core is reaping. I mean, when you take into account all the crap hurled at them off these lists alone, you gotta figure they're taking away some serious scratch, right? But seriously, the Masters of Deception were mostly based in New York City. And while not all of them were black, many of the notable members were, which is what led to racial taunts from at least one high-level white member of the Legion of Doom. --Chip Morton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 23: 2:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24DD437B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.laserfence.net (apollo.laserfence.net [196.44.69.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271D143FBD for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:02:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@unfoldings.net) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18nvZq-000PGW-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:02:02 +0200 Received: from prometheus-p0.datel.laserfence.net ([192.168.255.1] helo=prometheus.home.laserfence.net) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18nvZc-000PGA-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:01:50 +0200 Received: from phoenix.home.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.2]) by prometheus.home.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18nvZY-0005Vj-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:01:44 +0200 Received: from will by phoenix.home.laserfence.net with local (Exim 4.10) id 18nvZY-0004gH-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:01:44 +0200 From: Willie Viljoen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Offtopic: Clean Screen HOWTO Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:01:43 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> X-Spam-Score: (/) X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18nvZc-000PGA-00*wPCEXLZK8QA* X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020422 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This has been bugging me for a while now... There are a whole bunch of products on the market that sell with sales pitches like "perfectly crystal clear" and "streakless shine"... all of these are being sold as "screen cleaners", yet most of these just leave nasty oil deposits or streaks on your screen. How do you get your CRT clean? Which cleaners would you use, and what types of cloth work the best? Recommendations? Will -- Willie Viljoen Freelance IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60 +27 51 522 44 36 (after hours) +27 82 404 03 27 (mobile) will@unfoldings.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 25 23:43:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB8637B401 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.carrel.org (adsl-64-91-104-251.gh.customer.centurytel.net [64.91.104.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9086543F75 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:43:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from william.a@carrel.org) Received: from carrel.org (teacup199.carrel.org [172.16.1.199]) by mx.carrel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C42E7B for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:43:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:43:09 -0800 Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: William Carrel To: FreeBSD Chat Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030225234336.01a452b8@threespace.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 09:50 PM, Chip Morton wrote: > So I think we can pretty much kill the pseudo-ignorant "Oh it wasn't > poking fun at anybody specifically" attitude. Think of all the poor Swedish who are stereotyped by The Muppets Swedish Chef! And Google helps maintain this prejudice with their ethnically insensitive Swedish Chef translation (http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/). Why the whole world will think that every Swede is a clumsy guy who beats his dough with a rolling pin and says "Bork, bork, bork" a lot. In other words, the encheferizer owes it's existence to a desire of Norwegian middle-class pricks to make fun of Swedish working-class kids. Pretty soon as a result of this oppressive stereotype, people will start taking casual mailing lists far more seriously than they ought to. These mailing list posters will link Scandinavian racial strife, fascism, atomic weapons, and the worldwide proliferation of Chicken McNuggets to the encheferizer. Oh the horrors caused by one simple program. I'd best go back to my strange world where the people who speak jive are mainly white and the word pragmatism means something. Bork, bork, bork! -- William Carrel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 2:34:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C49037B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3028143F75 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D3A165309; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:34:15 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Willie Viljoen Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Offtopic: Clean Screen HOWTO From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:34:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> (Willie Viljoen's message of "Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:01:43 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090014 (Oort Gnus v0.14) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) References: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Willie Viljoen writes: > How do you get your CRT clean? Which cleaners would you use, and what types > of cloth work the best? Regular window-cleaning solution and a lint-free cloth (such as you would use to clean a window) work fine. (Well duh, what did you expect?) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 2:53:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B14B37B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from murdoch.servitor.co.uk (murdoch.servitor.co.uk [217.151.99.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F086043FE3 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:53:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from mmu-firewall.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.101.200] helo=miter96pq2w1fz) by murdoch.servitor.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 18nzC5-000ELr-00; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:53:45 +0000 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "William Carrel" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: RE: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:53:44 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org William Carrel wrote: > Think of all the poor Swedish who are stereotyped by The Muppets > Swedish Chef! And Google helps maintain this prejudice with their > ethnically insensitive Swedish Chef translation I just want to point something out here. People were stating that jive was harmless and was never intended to be specifically racist. I happened to know different, so pointed this fact out. Jive does owe it's existence to nothing more than the desire to be racist - nothing else - and therefore those people need to be corrected. If people find it funny, that's their choice. I don't particularly care for it, or that sense of humour. I prefer humour that involves cheese shops, dead parrots and silly walks. Hey, perhaps the British cheese federation, the RSPCA and various disabled charities will beat up on me one day because I mention those things on a mailing list in a humourous way. I'm sure if I started sending out mails to -chat about 'spazzos' though, it wouldn't do much good for me if a future employer found it, and I'd expect people to find it offensive. The Swedish chef owes it's existence to the desire of a bunch of Americans who had never met anybody from Sweden to entertain other Americans who had never met any Swedes. Whilst some Swedes may be offended, the key factor that prevents it from being completely abhorrent, is that thus far Americans have not oppressed Swedes for centuries, hung them from trees, set fire to crosses outside their homes, killed and tortured them and then had a jolly good laugh about it all. Unfortunately, in a country where local police forces composed of KKK members are considered less of a threat to civil liberty and personal safety to black people in that area, than some guy with a load of oil on the other side of the world, I think it might be prudent to not encourage racially offensive behaviour. You might call it PC-madness, but I call it being polite. > Pretty soon as a result of this oppressive stereotype, people will > start taking casual mailing lists far more seriously than they ought > to. You know, there are times when I wish that people would take FreeBSD as a whole more seriously than they do. There are times when I also agree it's time to lighten up. However, when a piece of software is an attempt to ingrain into a community a set of racial stereotypes, and people just think it's a "bit of fun", perhaps it is useful for it to be pointed out to them just what it is they are doing. That's all. Put it this way, at the moment jive is in ports. If it was in the base system or part of BSD games, however much I dislike penguin-orientated operating systems, I'd be jumping ship. Anyway, I think if this thread goes on any further, we'll just end up with a list of people who think taking the piss out of black people is OK, thereby making people wary of their political background and causing damage to the project. We will also end up with a list of people who love political correctness, which could also damage the project. Perhaps it might be a good idea to call a C&D on this topic and agree to disagree before it really gets out of hand. -- Paul Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 3:34:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FC037B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:34:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1C343FBF for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:34:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D7E145308; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:34:47 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "Paul Robinson" Cc: "William Carrel" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: Re: jive From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:34:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Paul Robinson"'s message of "Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:53:44 -0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090014 (Oort Gnus v0.14) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Paul Robinson" writes: > The Swedish chef owes it's existence to the desire of a bunch of Americans > who had never met anybody from Sweden to entertain other Americans who had > never met any Swedes. Not really. AFAIK, it owes its existence to a genuine flesh-and-blood Swedish chef who lost his nerve on live television and spent the rest of the show speaking Swedish to an American audience. The Muppet Show character is a spoof of that, bork bork bork. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 3:42:59 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EC737B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from energyhq.homeip.net (213-97-200-73.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.97.200.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950C943FDF for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from flynn@energyhq.homeip.net) Received: from christine.energyhq.tk (christine.energyhq.tk [192.168.100.1]) by energyhq.homeip.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B853AAF59B; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:42:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:43:20 +0100 From: Miguel Mendez To: "Paul Robinson" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Message-Id: <20030226124320.08ec6b6f.flynn@energyhq.homeip.net> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Face: 1j}k*2E>Y\+C~E|/wehi[:dCM,{N7/uE 3o# P,{t7gA/qnovFDDuyQV.1hdT7&#d)q"xY33}{_GS>kk'S{O]nE$A`T|\4&p\&mQyexOLb8}FO List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --=.,1prIJDdkVHOgu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:53:44 -0000 "Paul Robinson" wrote: Howdy, > not encourage racially offensive behaviour. You might call it > PC-madness, but I call it being polite. When a little humour (not badly intended) makes people over-react, I call it 'too thin skin'. People, freebsd-chat != real life! > it this way, at the moment jive is in ports. If it was in the base > system or part of BSD games, however much I dislike penguin-orientated > operating systems, I'd be jumping ship. Fell free to install Mandrake. If having jive is what makes you decide which OS to run, I feel sorry fo you. > Anyway, I think if this thread goes on any further, we'll just end up > with a list of people who think taking the piss out of black people is Come one man, it's a *joke*, or are you trolling? Cheers, -- Miguel Mendez - flynn@energyhq.homeip.net GPG Public Key :: http://energyhq.homeip.net/files/pubkey.txt EnergyHQ :: http://www.energyhq.tk Of course it runs NetBSD! Tired of Spam? -> http://www.trustic.com --=.,1prIJDdkVHOgu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (NetBSD) iD8DBQE+XKhcnLctrNyFFPERAokUAKCarZcKyjEhDEjrZee9B08PPKLwiQCfYN2g j43LJhM1B2nwI8/LKab4eC8= =RfDK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.,1prIJDdkVHOgu-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 3:46:56 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B070637B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from murdoch.servitor.co.uk (murdoch.servitor.co.uk [217.151.99.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F57843FBD for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from mmu-firewall.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.101.200] helo=miter96pq2w1fz) by murdoch.servitor.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 18o01V-000EOd-00; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:46:53 +0000 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "William Carrel" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: RE: jive Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:46:52 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org DES wrote: > Not really. AFAIK, it owes its existence to a genuine flesh-and-blood > Swedish chef who lost his nerve on live television and spent the rest > of the show speaking Swedish to an American audience. The Muppet Show > character is a spoof of that, bork bork bork. I stand corrected, I'd never heard that story before. However, a bit of googling around gets: http://www.somasoma.de/1/somarest1.htm Which seems to confirm the story, as much as a relatively anonymous unsubstantiated webpage can confirm anything. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 3:55:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A520637B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E6943F3F for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:55:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 725165308; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:55:12 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "Paul Robinson" Cc: "William Carrel" , "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: Re: jive From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:55:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: ("Paul Robinson"'s message of "Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:46:52 -0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090014 (Oort Gnus v0.14) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Paul Robinson" writes: > DES wrote: > > Not really. AFAIK, it owes its existence to a genuine flesh-and-blood > > Swedish chef who lost his nerve on live television and spent the rest > > of the show speaking Swedish to an American audience. > I stand corrected, I'd never heard that story before. However, a bit of > googling around gets: sic transit gloria mundi, I googled around too and found a) the story straight from the guy claiming to be that original Swedish chef and b) a firm denial from one of the writers for the Muppet Show. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 3:56:42 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44BE37B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp016.mail.yahoo.com (smtp016.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.113]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AA48043FDF for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaeru@pd.jaring.my) Received: from unknown (HELO ?219.94.74.93?) (khairil?yusof@219.94.74.93 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 11:56:38 -0000 Subject: Re: Offtopic: Clean Screen HOWTO From: Khairil Yusof Reply-To: kaeru@pd.jaring.my To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> References: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-9ELsizh+HItGDiBLTbfy" Organization: Message-Id: <1046260593.24119.52.camel@daemon.home.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 26 Feb 2003 19:56:33 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --=-9ELsizh+HItGDiBLTbfy Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 15:01, Willie Viljoen wrote: > How do you get your CRT clean? Which cleaners would you use, and what typ= es=20 > of cloth work the best? Just use plain old window washing sprays. However a household trick, is to use old newspapers instead of cloth to wipe the screen clean. This leaves your screen streak free (btw it works great on normal windows also). --=20 "Optimized, Elegant, On Time; Pick any two" --=-9ELsizh+HItGDiBLTbfy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA+XKtxDAqnLW/+/X8RAtmzAJ0S787O+4jAwx1AszbCg6tiLbsDngCg/Y3I L7hZpHPlMugxsYaPN+X1Ekk= =NunT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-9ELsizh+HItGDiBLTbfy-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 4: 7: 6 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8EB37B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from murdoch.servitor.co.uk (murdoch.servitor.co.uk [217.151.99.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B698643FB1 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from mmu-firewall.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.101.200] helo=miter96pq2w1fz) by murdoch.servitor.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 18o0Kv-000EPn-00; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:06:57 +0000 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "Miguel Mendez" Cc: Subject: RE: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:06:57 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <20030226124320.08ec6b6f.flynn@energyhq.homeip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Miguel Mendez wrote: > > not encourage racially offensive behaviour. You might call it > > PC-madness, but I call it being polite. > > When a little humour (not badly intended) makes people over-react, I > call it 'too thin skin'. People, freebsd-chat != real life! Enouraging racially offensive behaviour is not humourous. If you think it is, then that's your choice. Personally, I just think it's pathetic. I accept that on-line is not real life, but then if people (employers) are judging you based on your postings to -chat, there are two things you need to consider: - perhaps they should be judging you on CVS commits, -hackers, -arch or perhaps even meeting you in person rather than -chat, so maybe you want to apply for another job anyway - regardless of the first point, you should consider whether you want to be considered by your peers and future employers as somebody who finds "nigger jokes" funny. Your choice. > Fell free to install Mandrake. If having jive is what makes you decide > which OS to run, I feel sorry fo you. Having jive does not determine my OS choice. All operating system choices made by 90% of the world's computers users are determined by whether it will run the applications they wish to run, the way they wish to run them, or because their boss tells them what they need to run. Personally, I have a perception of quality of that operating system to think about, whether it does things the way I want, and a tacit trust relationship with the creators of that OS. If jive was considered appropriate for base rather than ports, that trust relationship would be severly damaged, and as a result could quite easily affect whether I choose to run FreeBSD. I do not think it would do FreeBSD's currently appaling public image any good to give the impression it's being run by a bunch of rednecks. You may differ in your opinion. That's your choice. > > Anyway, I think if this thread goes on any further, we'll just end up > > with a list of people who think taking the piss out of black people is > > Come one man, it's a *joke*, or are you trolling? It's a joke that causes reactions in some people that is quite un-nervingly revealing about their personalities. Remember, this particular sub-thread is based around the idea that your future employer/spouse/children may end up reading these posts. Again, if you think that racially offensive humour is funny, that's fine - you've put that down on record. I just happen to strongly disagree. I never troll. The statements I make may cause you to feel offended, in which case I apologise in advance, but I would say it your face as easily as I state it here. Of course, you can feel free to "fight back" if you want, but eventually I'll just decide that nothing I say can change your mind and ignore you. :-) -- Paul Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 4:20:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF19437B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:20:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from energyhq.homeip.net (213-97-200-73.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.97.200.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367AB43F85 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from flynn@energyhq.homeip.net) Received: from christine.energyhq.tk (christine.energyhq.tk [192.168.100.1]) by energyhq.homeip.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C45BEAF59B; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:20:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:21:19 +0100 From: Miguel Mendez To: "Paul Robinson" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) Message-Id: <20030226132119.172e03aa.flynn@energyhq.homeip.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20030226124320.08ec6b6f.flynn@energyhq.homeip.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) X-Face: 1j}k*2E>Y\+C~E|/wehi[:dCM,{N7/uE 3o# P,{t7gA/qnovFDDuyQV.1hdT7&#d)q"xY33}{_GS>kk'S{O]nE$A`T|\4&p\&mQyexOLb8}FO List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --=.UlCn34e5/q5Is. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:06:57 -0000 "Paul Robinson" wrote: > Encouraging racially offensive behaviour is not humourous. If you > think it is, then that's your choice. Personally, I just think it's > pathetic. I That again, is your own point of view. I happen to have excellent people with afro-american origins who found the post funny. So what you say now? > - perhaps they should be judging you on CVS commits, -hackers, -arch > or perhaps even meeting you in person rather than -chat, so maybe you > want to apply for another job anyway Exactly, if someone judges my worthiness by my posts on chat instead of my work, I'd rather not join that company. > - regardless of the first point, you should consider whether you want > to be considered by your peers and future employers as somebody who > finds "nigger jokes" funny. Your choice. Still, I get the impression you give it much more thinking than it deserves. If life taught me something is, learn to make fun of yourself. > If jive was > considered appropriate for base rather than ports, that trust > relationship would be severly damaged, and as a result could quite > easily affect whether I choose to run FreeBSD. I do not think it would You can't try to push your moral values on your users. > It's a joke that causes reactions in some people that is quite > un-nervingly revealing about their personalities. Remember, this > particular sub-thread is based around the idea that your future > employer/spouse/children may end up reading these posts. Again, if you > think that racially offensive humour is funny, that's fine - you've > put that down on record. I just happen to strongly disagree. As I've said, if my spouse judged me by a post on chat I'd rather look for another woman. Same about the boss. > I never troll. The statements I make may cause you to feel offended, > in which case I apologise in advance, but I would say it your face as No, I don't feel offended at all, and that's my point. Take it easier on the lists. I think it's Poul-Henning who has a sig about that. He says 'Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity", I'd like to replace stupidity with 'I just wanted to make a joke'. We'll have to agree to disagree on what's fun and not, but let's not make drama about it. AFAIK, nobody committed suicide because of this. Cheers, -- Miguel Mendez - flynn@energyhq.homeip.net GPG Public Key :: http://energyhq.homeip.net/files/pubkey.txt EnergyHQ :: http://www.energyhq.tk Of course it runs NetBSD! Tired of Spam? -> http://www.trustic.com --=.UlCn34e5/q5Is. Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (NetBSD) iD8DBQE+XLFCnLctrNyFFPERAlG/AKCwqYEKNBsBoTEM5BjeGhteaLkEGgCfXj0G u+/ONRwWfeuDnkIjCVtKluI= =RZb7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.UlCn34e5/q5Is.-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 4:31:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F420737B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from firehouse.net (machine-254.firehouse.net [192.160.237.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A890343F93 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alan-sender-52b549@clegg.com) Received: (qmail 67515 invoked by uid 85); 26 Feb 2003 12:31:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO machine-254.firehouse.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost.ncren.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 12:31:39 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:31:39 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Offtopic: Clean Screen HOWTO Message-ID: <20030226123139.GA67472@shazam.wetworks.org> References: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> <1046260593.24119.52.camel@daemon.home.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+QahgC5+KEYLbs62" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1046260593.24119.52.camel@daemon.home.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: "Alan B. Clegg" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.69 (Count Fleet) X-TMDA-Fingerprint: XPlstncIWwMo+20s13F99t6yt9o X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unless the network is lying to me again, Khairil Yusof said:=20 > Just use plain old window washing sprays. However a household trick, is > to use old newspapers instead of cloth to wipe the screen clean. This > leaves your screen streak free (btw it works great on normal windows > also). I agree with the use of newspaper, however, you must be quite careful around the edges of the screen so as to not leave newspaper ink on the monitor plastics. That ink has proven to be much harder to remove than the fingerprints and spittle on the screen. AlanC --=20 I must study politics and war that my sons | =20 may have liberty to study mathematics and | alan@clegg.com philosophy. -- John Adams | --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+XLOryJP8xSfQVdsRAkNqAKCfHg1fiUOI0VdEWGTa0SBweTMWJwCeLUDT RMWekCDX2IGAnTkPi1A/vNg= =od83 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 6: 1: 9 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F2A37B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from pollux.asml.nl (ns.asml.nl [195.109.200.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968B543F93 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from creon.asml.nl (creon [146.106.1.223]) by pollux.asml.nl (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00034; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:00:42 +0100 (MET) Received: from titan.asml.nl (titan [146.106.1.9]) by creon.asml.nl (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1QE0fq03381; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:00:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (frobozz.asml.nl [146.106.12.76]) by titan.asml.nl (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08748; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:00:40 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:23:12 +0100 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: when are unsolicited sales okay? Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:52 PM -0800 2003/02/24, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Anyways, when are unsolicited sales okay? When they allow me to insert the explosive of my choice, into the orifice of my choice (on/in their body ;-), and hold the attached detonator of my choice, while they are making their spiel. You just try and make an effective unsolicted sales call with a stick of dynamite up your ass, or firecrackers up your nose, with a crazed pyromaniac holding a flame-thrower six inches away from you. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 6:13:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A5037B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp017.mail.yahoo.com (smtp017.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A69C443F3F for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:13:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaeru@pd.jaring.my) Received: from unknown (HELO ?219.94.74.93?) (khairil?yusof@219.94.74.93 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2003 14:13:41 -0000 Subject: Re: Offtopic: Clean Screen HOWTO From: Khairil Yusof Reply-To: kaeru@pd.jaring.my To: "Alan B. Clegg" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030226123139.GA67472@shazam.wetworks.org> References: <200302260901.43918.will@unfoldings.net> <1046260593.24119.52.camel@daemon.home.net> <20030226123139.GA67472@shazam.wetworks.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-TakW48v4A6+HimHGqAsj" Organization: Message-Id: <1046268814.24119.57.camel@daemon.home.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 Date: 26 Feb 2003 22:13:35 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --=-TakW48v4A6+HimHGqAsj Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 20:31, Alan B. Clegg wrote: > That ink has proven to be much harder to remove than the fingerprints > and spittle on the screen. My trick for this and other white plastic that has gone crummy due to dirty fingers, ink from newspaper and adhesive residue (price tags, stickers and such) is to use a plain old eraser. Rub and vacuum. --=20 Khairil Yusof --=-TakW48v4A6+HimHGqAsj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA+XMuODAqnLW/+/X8RApnmAJ401ihh0T7L2vn1OqsAYz+O1tgAPACg4rOs yEF4e7VU3Osmy2tWW1bhYz4= =LUuU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-TakW48v4A6+HimHGqAsj-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 9:22:36 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A4637B401; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay.omnis.com (smtp-relay.omnis.com [216.239.128.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599A643FDD; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:22:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from salty.rapid.stbernard.com (corp-2.ipinc.com [199.245.188.2]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A0C43FFB; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:18:06 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.com To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:18:05 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: Santos , developers@FreeBSD.org, chat@FreeBSD.org References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday 24 February 2003 21:57, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 24 February 2003 at 9:02:50 -0800, Wes Peters wrote: > > On Saturday 22 February 2003 19:18, Santos wrote: > >> Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >>> I've just received the following spam from Yahoo!, not for the > >>> first time. I've complained in the past, and have had no > >>> response. So: I'm blocking them. They're no longer the good > >>> guys in my eyes. > >>> > >>> If you are using Yahoo!, you will not be able to send mail to me. > >>> You will be able to contact me if you put a yahoo.com address in > >>> the Reply-To: header. > >>> > >>> Greg > >> > >> Why not a whitelist? I seriously doubt that the spamers will > >> reply. And the people with good intentions will be able to contact > >> you. It will cut spam in a efective way. > > > > So will SpamAssassin, and without resorting to killing the > > messenger. > > You're missing the point. This message was send by Yahoo!, not an > anonymous spammer. No, I'm not missing the point. Do you still have an active Yahoo! account? Have you unsubscribed from Yahoo! Delivers? Have you fed the offending messages back into your Bayesian filter? I fully appreciate what a problem spam is, especially when you have to pay to recieve the crap, but question whether simply blocking one of the largest email providers in the world is really an effective tool. That's like selling petrol to everyone except Ford drivers. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 10:59:17 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F0737B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.pressenter.com (hermes.pressenter.com [209.224.20.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AAE243F75 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nospam@hiltonbsd.com) Received: from [209.224.32.86] (helo=daggar.sbgnet.net) by hermes.pressenter.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 18o6lf-0006v5-00; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:59:00 -0600 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:59:11 -0600 From: Stephen Hilton To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: paul@iconoplex.co.uk, william.a@carrel.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: jive Message-Id: <20030226125911.57a49f27.nospam@hiltonbsd.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:55:11 +0100 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "Paul Robinson" writes: > > DES wrote: > > > Not really. AFAIK, it owes its existence to a genuine flesh-and-blood > > > Swedish chef who lost his nerve on live television and spent the rest > > > of the show speaking Swedish to an American audience. > > I stand corrected, I'd never heard that story before. However, a bit of > > googling around gets: > > sic transit gloria mundi, I googled around too and found a) the story > straight from the guy claiming to be that original Swedish chef and b) > a firm denial from one of the writers for the Muppet Show. _French Chef 'suicide' after critics' attack_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2798627.stm Well thank heavens this was not a Swedish Chef, the implications could be borking astounding. Cheers, Stephen Hilton nospam@hiltonbsd.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 13: 9: 6 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DBA237B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A2343F85 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com ([68.11.249.216]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030226210903.SNWA6744.lakemtao02.cox.net@vwinxp.threespace.com> for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:09:03 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030226145937.0195b9f0@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:03:43 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: jive (was RE: was this really necessary?) In-Reply-To: <20030226132119.172e03aa.flynn@energyhq.homeip.net> References: <20030226124320.08ec6b6f.flynn@energyhq.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:21 AM 2/26/2003, Miguel Mendez wrote: >That again, is your own point of view. I happen to have excellent people >with afro-american origins who found the post funny. So what you say >now? You "have" them, huh? Hmm.... >Still, I get the impression you give it much more thinking than it >deserves. If life taught me something is, learn to make fun of yourself. Making fun of yourself is one thing. Being denigrated by someone else is another thing completely. --Chip Morton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 15:59: 8 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46AD737B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:59:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [65.173.111.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81ADB43FB1 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:59:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1QNx51Y069951; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:59:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1QNx2jD069948; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:59:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:59:02 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: Wes Peters Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! In-Reply-To: <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> Message-ID: <20030226164931.H69929@wonkity.com> References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Wes Peters wrote: > I fully appreciate what a problem spam is, especially when you have > to pay to recieve the crap, but question whether simply blocking > one of the largest email providers in the world is really an effective > tool. Yes, it's an effective tool. Large providers have large duties to control spam. Blocking the provider can give them an incentive to be responsible. In the meantime, I don't feel like trying to clean up Yahoo's problem. Those who wish to send email from Yahoo can decide whether they're happy with the situation or want to move to some other provider that isn't widely rejected. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 16: 1:10 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B9037B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:01:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.20.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E2D43FBD for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au) Received: from elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au (elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.18.41]) by ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1R00x3J005831; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:01:03 +1100 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: JacobRhoden Organization: University of Melbourne To: Wes Peters , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:00:59 +1100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> In-Reply-To: <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200302271100.59109.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday 27 February 2003 04:18, Wes Peters wrote: > That's like selling petrol to everyone except Ford drivers. What a novel idea, all it would take is someone who has alot of money. Yo= u=20 could buy out all the petrol companies in Australia and eradicate Fords..= =2E.=20 hrm.... Jacob Rhoden Phone: +61 3 8344 6102 ITS Division Email: jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 17: 2:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B9E37B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:02:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3334343FA3 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fearow@attbi.com) Received: from god.woofcat.com (12-251-110-17.client.attbi.com[12.251.110.17]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003022701025405100l4imee>; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:02:54 +0000 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:02:51 -0600 From: Anti To: Warren Block Cc: wes@softweyr.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! Message-Id: <20030226190251.6ae7051f.fearow@attbi.com> In-Reply-To: <20030226164931.H69929@wonkity.com> References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> <20030226164931.H69929@wonkity.com> Organization: Woofcat X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:59:02 -0700 (MST) Warren Block wrote: > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Wes Peters wrote: > > > I fully appreciate what a problem spam is, especially when you have > > to pay to recieve the crap, but question whether simply blocking > > one of the largest email providers in the world is really an effective > > tool. > > Yes, it's an effective tool. Large providers have large duties to > control spam. Blocking the provider can give them an incentive to be > responsible. > > In the meantime, I don't feel like trying to clean up Yahoo's problem. > Those who wish to send email from Yahoo can decide whether they're happy > with the situation or want to move to some other provider that isn't > widely rejected. i hardly think yahoo is "widely rejected" except by those too ignorant to implement a better solution to block spam than rejecting all mail from a major provider... such ignorant people hurt only themselves and those who try to send them legit email... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 26 19:47:23 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DB137B401 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [65.173.111.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A0543FCB for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:47:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h1R3lI1Y070327; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h1R3lH2M070324; Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:47:17 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: Anti Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: I'm blocking Yahoo! In-Reply-To: <20030226190251.6ae7051f.fearow@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20030226195650.I70244@wonkity.com> References: <20030219022940.GC17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302240902.50478.wes@softweyr.com> <20030225055735.GD21727@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200302260918.05289.wes@softweyr.com> <20030226164931.H69929@wonkity.com> <20030226190251.6ae7051f.fearow@attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Anti wrote: > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:59:02 -0700 (MST) > Warren Block wrote: > > > > In the meantime, I don't feel like trying to clean up Yahoo's problem. > > Those who wish to send email from Yahoo can decide whether they're happy > > with the situation or want to move to some other provider that isn't > > widely rejected. > > i hardly think yahoo is "widely rejected" ...not yet, maybe. > except by those too ignorant > to implement a better solution to block spam than rejecting all mail > from a major provider... such ignorant people hurt only themselves and > those who try to send them legit email... Yahoo had their chance; I didn't start rejecting them until they became a problem. If they start being responsible, I can set up something less restrictive. Until then, Yahoo's mail is not welcome on my system. Anyone with a "legit" message can send it from a "legit" email provider. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 27 19:39:47 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF9637B401 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-87.apple.com [17.250.248.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BC643F85 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h1S3djdD018820 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:39:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB026800.G0R; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:39:44 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:39:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Offtopic: Clean Screen HOWTO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: "Alan B. Clegg" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: kaeru@pd.jaring.my From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <1046268814.24119.57.camel@daemon.home.net> Message-Id: <49EE522E-4ACE-11D7-915F-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 09:13 AM, Khairil Yusof wrote: > On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 20:31, Alan B. Clegg wrote: > >> That ink has proven to be much harder to remove than the fingerprints >> and spittle on the screen. > > My trick for this and other white plastic that has gone crummy due to > dirty fingers, ink from newspaper and adhesive residue (price tags, > stickers and such) is to use a plain old eraser. Rub and vacuum. > need to be careful on trinotron's. The damping wires are real sensitive. --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 27 20:26:34 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9AB37B401 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:26:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8753143F93 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h1S4QVdD005459 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB04C600.BHM; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:26:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:26:35 -0500 Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: FreeBSD Chat To: Chip Morton From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030223123659.01965b20@threespace.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 02:04 PM, Chip Morton wrote: > At 08:44 AM 2/22/2003, you wrote: >> If anybody was offended by this but of off-key humor, I wholeheartedly >> apologize. > > > First off, I applaud you for your apology on this issue, Stacy. It > takes tremendous character and understanding to consider others' > perspectives, even when your own perspective tells you that you've > done nothing wrong. > > To all others who responded in favor of the humor or in defense of the > individual's right to free speech, I believe you've missed the point > entirely. The jive filter isn't based on a dialect; it's based on a > centuries old stereotype of African-American speech. The content of > the message wasn't funny at all. But even the mind-numbingly dull GPL > is funny when you make yourself up in blackface with big white lips > and add a little shuffle, isn't it? > I think it is funny to begin with because it is about politics. > The simple fact is that I think most of you are too far removed from > the group you're making fun of to understand why they wouldn't find > the joke nearly as funny. Despite being incredibly enlightened with > regard to technology, most of you are painfully ignorant with respect > to understanding anybody that's not as white-bread as you are. > Perhaps when somebody writes the homo filter or the habib filter or > the lo-wang filter or some other filter that strikes uncomfortably > close to home for you, then you'll understand. > Not at all, I can understand why someone may be offended. But I also see the humor in it. It isn't a black thing when I laugh at the jive filter. Actually nowadays I think more of those stupid white kids who talk like that because they look dumb. And so you understand me I would find a habib filter funny, a lo-wang one funny, a geronimo one funny as well (I am American Indian). Hell I'd laugh at a wasp one too. See the point is these things can only damage a person if they let it. I don't care what anyone else says about me because I know the truth. I have been called many, many things from Chief Yellow big-toe to wagon burner and worse. I have been made fun of, stereottyped, refused service you name it. But I won;t let some stupid crap get to me because then they do win. It is my right to be offended or not offended, just as it is yours. But it is also his right to post that or say that. It is also my right to delete the email on move on. And if I have a problem with it to say something to the poster, preferably in private as not to provoke this mess, imho. The one thing guaranteed in the USA at least in theory is the ability to say and do what you want within the rule of law. Just because something is offensive does not mean it should be banned, If that were the case then nothing would be legal. Now i might find something stupid, but I class racist junk as that stupid ignorance, I pity those ppl, i do not hate them. Just my .02 cents... --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 27 20:28:28 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFA537B401 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:28:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-85.apple.com [17.250.248.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8EC43F75 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:28:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h1S4SPmu015789 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB04FC00.52W; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:28:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:28:29 -0500 Subject: Re: was this really necessary? [ was Re: The FreeBSD Jive Copyright ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, rob spellberg To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <20030222210705.GA2091@papagena.rockefeller.edu> Message-Id: <167B9DDC-4AD5-11D7-915F-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 04:07 PM, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > I don't mean Stacy's act of posting was wrong -- some people may be > comfortable with making such posts and having them quoted back at them > later, and some may not be comfortable with that, it's entirely up to > the individual poster (up to a point, obviously hate speech isn't > allowed on lists like this). > A good policy is to never post or say anything you would not be comfortable defending. Nothing is private online, and few things are truly private offline anymore --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 27 21:42:40 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C0E37B401; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.20.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1055A43F85; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:42:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au) Received: from elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au (elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.18.41]) by ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1S5ga3J028744; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:42:36 +1100 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: JacobRhoden Organization: University of Melbourne To: pete@thechristies.net, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:42:35 +1100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200302281642.35892.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday 01 March 2003 11:41, Pete C wrote: > unsubscribe > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message Is it just me, or is having this unsubscribe message more annoying than i= t is=20 useful? (it just annoys people who already know how to do it, and people = that=20 dont, dont seem to read it). Jacob Rhoden Phone: +61 3 8344 6102 ITS Division Email: jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 27 22:19:48 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B6437B410; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.acd.net (smtp.acd.net [207.179.102.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C10543FB1; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:19:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taxman@ACD.NET) Received: from 207.179.65.219 ([207.179.65.219]) by smtp.acd.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 28 Feb 2003 01:19:47 -0500 From: taxman To: JacobRhoden , pete@thechristies.net, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 01:20:31 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200302281642.35892.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200302281642.35892.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302280120.31301.taxman@acd.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2003 06:19:47.0646 (UTC) FILETIME=[649F95E0:01C2DEF1] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday 28 February 2003 12:42 am, JacobRhoden wrote: > On Saturday 01 March 2003 11:41, Pete C wrote: > > unsubscribe > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > Is it just me, or is having this unsubscribe message more annoying than it > is useful? (it just annoys people who already know how to do it, and people > that dont, dont seem to read it). Just think.. for every one person that misses that and sends the unsubscribe to the list, there may be nine that do read it. Imagine for a moment the horror if it was removed.. Now get a hold of yourself, you'll recover eventually, it was just a nightmare :) Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 27 23:26:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7EE37B401 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:26:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.20.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369F943FBD for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:26:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au) Received: from elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au (elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.18.41]) by ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h1S7QX3J008480; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:26:34 +1100 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: JacobRhoden Organization: University of Melbourne To: taxman , pete@thechristies.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (unsubscribing) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:26:33 +1100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4] References: <200302281642.35892.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> <200302280120.31301.taxman@acd.net> In-Reply-To: <200302280120.31301.taxman@acd.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200302281826.33610.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday 28 February 2003 17:20, taxman wrote: > Just think.. for every one person that misses that and sends the > unsubscribe to the list, there may be nine that do read it. > Imagine for a moment the horror if it was removed.. Heh, that thought had occured to me, but still... i have offten wondered = if=20 there should be an option for people to turn off that annoying (10-20 byt= es=20 of) text > Now get a hold of yourself, you'll recover eventually, it was just a > nightmare :) Most certianly I am as lazy as the postmaster in that I havent added a li= ne in=20 my filter to block email which has one line saying 'unsubscribe' (: Jacob Rhoden Phone: +61 3 8344 6102 ITS Division Email: jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 28 7:55:30 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791CA37B401 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:55:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B65643F75 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:55:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0037.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.37] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18omr6-0001Qb-00; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:55:25 -0800 Message-ID: <3E5F861A.A2E4C0BF@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:54:02 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: JacobRhoden Cc: taxman , pete@thechristies.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (unsubscribing) References: <200302281642.35892.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> <200302280120.31301.taxman@acd.net> <200302281826.33610.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4cabfdaad461652d8418bf5a0cf5efa2d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org JacobRhoden wrote: > On Friday 28 February 2003 17:20, taxman wrote: > > Just think.. for every one person that misses that and sends the > > unsubscribe to the list, there may be nine that do read it. > > Imagine for a moment the horror if it was removed.. > > Heh, that thought had occured to me, but still... i have offten wondered if > there should be an option for people to turn off that annoying (10-20 bytes > of) text In the fine tradition of "a SPAM'mer's response to antiSPAM", you should probably have a client side filter which is artificially intelligent that can remove those for you before you see them... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 28 10: 1:15 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BECE37B401 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2148E43FAF for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com ([68.11.249.216]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030228180110.SAXK22825.lakemtao04.cox.net@vwinxp.threespace.com> for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:01:10 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030228115637.0196abf0@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:00:59 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: O'Reilly apologizes for calling BSD "Free Software" In-Reply-To: <3E5E9DBE.12AA2EF6@mindspring.com> References: <200302261224.54884.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <3E5E70F8.85AE964@mindspring.com> <200302271306.26357.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <200302272338.28371.will@unfoldings.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:22 PM 2/27/2003, you wrote: >Willie Viljoen wrote: > > It's even simpler than that. GNU believe software should be free, as in, > > nobody can controle the software's development or rights to the software, > > and if anybody wants to modify the software, the modification must also be > > free, hence the author of any modification also has no rights to his own > > work. > >That's not "freedom", that's "liberation": > > synonyms FREE, RELEASE, LIBERATE, EMANCIPATE, MANUMIT > > FREE implies a usually permanent removal from whatever > binds, confines, entangles, or oppresses from their cages>. Of course, the real trick is that the definition of "free" that most people care about is the one that says I didn't have to spend any money for this stuff. Most people will take a lot of additional clauses tacked on to their software licences if they don't have to pay for it. Then again, after looking at the licenses of some commercial software, most people will take a lot of additional clauses regardless of what they paid. Mostly, I'd guess, they're/we're just not paying attention. > RELEASE suggests a setting loose from confinement, restraint, > or a state of pressure or tension, often without implication > of permanent liberation . > > LIBERATE stresses particularly the resulting state of liberty > . > > EMANCIPATE implies the liberation of a person from subjection > or domination household drudgery>. > > MANUMIT implies emancipation from slavery manumitted the slaves>. > >You know, as in "I hacked into Microsoft's CVS server and liberated >the source code". 8-) 8-). > > > > If the origional automobile were licensed under the GPL, Volvo would not be > > able to receive anything other than credit for their idea of adding seat > > belts, wethere they wanted to charge for the use of the idea, or not. > >They would also be able to accept a minimal fee for installation, >and they could charge out the wazoo for a warranty, which no one >would buy, because it's cheaper to get a new car, and they could >charge for "OnStar" (support). 8-). > > >-- Terry > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 28 14:11:30 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF8C37B401 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdead.mooseriver.com (gdead.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C5E43F93 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:11:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: from mooseriver.com (h-66-166-146-73.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.146.73]) by gdead.mooseriver.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h1SMBPJ1031635 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h1SMBKIC014597 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:11:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:11:20 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Chicago user group Message-ID: <20030228221120.GA14552@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there an activer FreeBSD users group in Chicago? The link to ChiFUG seems to be dead. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 1 14:22:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B924337B401 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.acd.net (smtp.acd.net [207.179.102.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D8343FD7 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taxman@ACD.NET) Received: from 207.179.77.42 ([207.179.77.42]) by smtp.acd.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:22:44 -0500 From: taxman To: Terry Lambert , JacobRhoden Subject: Re: (unsubscribing) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:56:34 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: pete@thechristies.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200302281826.33610.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> <3E5F861A.A2E4C0BF@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3E5F861A.A2E4C0BF@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200302281656.34554.taxman@acd.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2003 22:22:44.0818 (UTC) FILETIME=[14EA2320:01C2E041] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday 28 February 2003 10:54 am, Terry Lambert wrote: > JacobRhoden wrote: > > On Friday 28 February 2003 17:20, taxman wrote: > > > Just think.. for every one person that misses that and sends the > > > unsubscribe to the list, there may be nine that do read it. > > > Imagine for a moment the horror if it was removed.. > > > > Heh, that thought had occured to me, but still... i have offten wondered > > if there should be an option for people to turn off that annoying (10-20 > > bytes of) text > > In the fine tradition of "a SPAM'mer's response to antiSPAM", you > should probably have a client side filter which is artificially > intelligent that can remove those for you before you see them... > Gentlemen, Ladies, other, Wait on the edge of your seat for my announcement on -ports of the release of my sp4m-k1LL3r program. Written in modula4 lisp it by default filters out all instances of unsubscribe. :) Tim btw is the OP still CC'd here? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message