From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 2 16:23:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7525737B401 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from net.wau.nl (NET.WAU.NL [137.224.10.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0539743F93 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from FST777@phreaker.net) Received: from asser079.athome239.wau.nl (asser079.athome239.wau.nl [137.224.239.79]) by net.WAU.NL (PMDF V5.2-32 #38746) with ESMTP id <0HB500J6RD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 01:23:43 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 01:23:51 +0100 (CET) From: "Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek" Subject: Hi there To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: FST777@phreaker.net Message-id: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Spruce 0.6.5 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, I'm new on the list, so I decided to introduce myself. My name is Frans-Jan, some call me Fi-Ji. I reside in the Netherlands and am a 19 year old male human. I use FreeBSD 4.7 for some time now. Hope this is fun! grts Fi-Ji. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 2 17:14:39 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888DB37B401 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E7E43F85 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h231Ebbq027935 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB5FGD00.UI1; Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:14:37 -0800 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:14:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Hi there Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: FST777@phreaker.net From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> Message-Id: <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 07:23 PM, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > > Hello all, > > I'm new on the list, so I decided to introduce myself. My name is > Frans-Jan, some call me Fi-Ji. I reside in the Netherlands and am a 19 > year > old male human. I use FreeBSD 4.7 for some time now. > > Hope this is fun! > heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 2:54: 9 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DFF37B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 02:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rhadamanth.submonkey.net (pc2-cdif2-5-cust35.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.101.151.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BEE43F93 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 02:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by rhadamanth.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.12) id 18pna9-0006mH-00; Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:54:05 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:54:05 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Larry Sica Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hi there Message-ID: <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Larry Sica , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. You, for a start ;^) Ceri -- :r/dev/null To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 3:50:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA9637B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 03:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ml370.lantelligent.net (cs2427103-24.houston.rr.com [24.27.103.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02B843FB1 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 03:50:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from connects@korea.com) Received: from smtp0210.mail.yahoo.com ([218.25.142.228]) by ml370.lantelligent.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 3 Mar 2003 05:49:59 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:50:47 GMT From: "Janet Lee" X-Priority: 3 To: freebs@hotmail.com Subject: Enlarge your PENIS and improve your SEX Life! 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 6:41:52 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA43B37B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 06:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.213.64.2] (firewall.tiadon.com [204.213.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F64943FDD for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 06:41:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from rmc.tiadon.com by [204.213.64.2] via smtpd (for mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) with ESMTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:41:47 -0600 Received: from applications.tiadon.com (mail.tiadon.com [172.16.18.172]) by bcec01.tiadon.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id DKVJFGHP; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:41:45 -0600 Received: from firewall.tiadon.com ([204.213.65.20]) by applications.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:40:17 -0600 Received: from [204.213.65.20] by firewall.tiadon.com via smtpd (for mail.tiadon.com [172.16.18.172]) with ESMTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:40:16 -0600 Message-ID: <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> Reply-To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." From: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Ceri Davies" , "Larry Sica" Cc: References: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> Subject: Re: Hi there Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:39:54 -0600 Organization: DaleCo, S.P.---"the solutions people" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > > heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? > On Monday, March 03, 2003 4:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: > If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. > You, for a start ;^) > > Ceri I assumed he meant "alien" as in "non-human", which begs the case of whether my cats should respond as they're always jumping on the keyboard. OTOH, AFAIK they haven't yet learned to read manpages..... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 7:43:28 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA6B37B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from murdoch.servitor.co.uk (murdoch.servitor.co.uk [217.151.99.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F22643FA3 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:43:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from mmu-firewall.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.101.200] helo=miter96pq2w1fz) by murdoch.servitor.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 18ps6E-000KFR-00; Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:43:30 +0000 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "Larry Sica" , Cc: Subject: RE: Hi there Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:42:59 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Larry Sica wrote: > heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? No. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 9:29:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C36637B406 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E532543FA3 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk) Received: from caomhin.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.186]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18ptkX-0008Rm-0Y for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:29:14 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:22:41 +0000 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Kevin Golding Subject: Re: Hi there References: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> In-Reply-To: <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable>, Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. writes >I assumed he meant "alien" as in "non-human", which begs the case >of whether my cats should respond as they're always jumping on >the keyboard. OTOH, AFAIK they haven't yet learned to read >manpages..... Nor have many millions of people who call themselves computer users, so don't rule your cats out just yet. Kevin -- kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 9:29:36 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABCFA37B405 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sinamail.com (61-221-29-145.HINET-IP.hinet.net [61.221.29.145]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0AD43FBF for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from suppergeorge@sinamail.com) From: star@yahoo.com.tw To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?prO+97d8p0HEQLdOpWi5wbjVttw/Pw==?= Reply-To: suppergeorge@sinamail.com Date: 04 Mar 2003 01:34:39 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20030303172932.1D0AD43FBF@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 為什麼有人會比你成功10倍
主旨: 這或許是您正在尋找的機會喔
這或許是您正在找的機會哦！
對不起！打擾了，如果因此造成您的困擾，請直接刪除本信及點選下方「不想再收信」，我們會將您的資料刪除！
為什麼有人會比你成功10倍，收入多100倍、甚至多1000倍，難道他有比你多聰明這麼多嗎？
答案肯定不是的！
想一想！那些收入比我們高很多，生活比我們好很多的人！
他們到底做了什麼是我們所不知道的事？
而我們到底做錯了什麼、又錯過了什麼？
想不想知道人家怎麼做倒的！
你相信「時間＝金錢」、還是「時間＞金錢」

舉例：

我們一天工作8小時，一年工作365天，一輩子工作30年！那我們一輩子的總工作時數？
８小時＊３６５天＊３０年＝８７,６００小時
如果你的時薪100元，你一輩子賺876萬元！
如果你的時薪150元，你一輩子賺1314萬元！
如果你的時薪200元，你一輩子賺1752萬元！
看起來好像很多，看清楚！一年工作365天，要工作30年！而且不吃不喝！
這樣的收入，足夠三餐溫飽；買車子、房子勉強夠用；別忘了，還有子女的教育費、自己的養老金、還有『夢想』等待實現！
這樣的一輩子，你甘心嗎？
身為員工的你，每天辛苦為的是什麼？家庭、小孩？你有沒有想過，你上班一輩子，將來你的小孩能承接你的職位繼續做下去嗎？（除非你自己是老闆）
想不想改變自己及下一代的一生？
不想再收信(Unsubscribe)

　

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 10:11:37 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A293037B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA5A43F93 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:11:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0393.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.138] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18puPR-00071w-00; Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:11:30 -0800 Message-ID: <3E639A82.8F2E0B5@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:10:10 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: Ceri Davies , Larry Sica , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hi there References: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a45f56b897582b0c041d048ed9f5ed0648a8438e0f32a48e08350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." wrote: > On Monday, March 03, 2003 4:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > > heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? > > > > If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. > > You, for a start ;^) > > I assumed he meant "alien" as in "non-human", which begs the case > of whether my cats should respond as they're always jumping on > the keyboard. OTOH, AFAIK they haven't yet learned to read > manpages..... Try catman. If you have enough disk space, it's worth keeping around the preformatted copies for humans using your computer, too. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 10:26: 4 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B683537B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-34-52.knology.net [24.214.34.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9793643F85 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:26:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h23IPpM7028225; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:25:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Received: (from dkelly@localhost) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.12.7/8.12.7/Submit) id h23IPpBL028224; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:25:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:25:51 -0600 From: David Kelly To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hi there Message-ID: <20030303182551.GA28131@grumpy.dyndns.org> References: <0HB500J6SD3JAX@net.WAU.NL> <8139DB87-4D15-11D7-8FDF-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007901c2e192$c38cbad0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 08:39:54AM -0600, Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > I assumed he meant "alien" as in "non-human", which begs the case > of whether my cats should respond as they're always jumping on > the keyboard. OTOH, AFAIK they haven't yet learned to read > manpages..... You might be surprised: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/414.html -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 12:17:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0924C37B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-86.apple.com [17.250.248.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3A643FE1 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h23KHJGs028973 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([67.98.154.9]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB6WCU00.93I; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:17:18 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:17:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Hi there Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: Ceri Davies From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> Message-Id: <23B7558A-4DB5-11D7-BDDE-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 05:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: > On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > >> heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? > > If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. > You, for a start ;^) > i am not foreign im amerkun heh seriously since he said human i had to wonder if we have any non-humans...true aliens..ya know little green men, women with 4 boobs etc etc... --Larry > Ceri > -- > :r/dev/null > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 12:18:23 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023BB37B405 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-89.apple.com [17.250.248.89]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A0843FCB for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:18:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h23KIL8I007900 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([67.98.154.9]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB6WEK00.Q4B; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:18:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:18:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Hi there Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , Ceri Davies , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: Terry Lambert From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <3E639A82.8F2E0B5@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <48C35CBA-4DB5-11D7-BDDE-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 01:10 PM, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." wrote: >> On Monday, March 03, 2003 4:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: >>> On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: >>>> heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? >>> >>> If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. >>> You, for a start ;^) >> >> I assumed he meant "alien" as in "non-human", which begs the case >> of whether my cats should respond as they're always jumping on >> the keyboard. OTOH, AFAIK they haven't yet learned to read >> manpages..... > > Try catman. If you have enough disk space, it's worth keeping > around the preformatted copies for humans using your computer, > too. > I love the rtfm command myself...and yes it does exist in the ports... --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 13:49:27 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D0037B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DFF543FBF for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (electron.centtech.com [204.177.173.173]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h23LnK56041023 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:49:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3E63CDD3.7080807@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:49:07 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: More than 4 PCI devices - broken? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have more than 4 PCI devices in my machine (a Dell server) - but FreeBSD only sees the first 4 (of 6). Has anyone else seen this? Is this a kernel tweak, or something I missed when configuring it? Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching? ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 13:51:30 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92BC437B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (pc1-cdif2-5-cust38.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.101.150.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CDA43FD7 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.12) id 18pxqJ-0000NV-00; Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:51:27 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:51:27 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Larry Sica Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hi there Message-ID: <20030303215127.GA1416@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Larry Sica , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> <23B7558A-4DB5-11D7-BDDE-000393A335A2@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23B7558A-4DB5-11D7-BDDE-000393A335A2@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 03:17:21PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 05:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: > > >On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > > >>heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? > > > >If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. > >You, for a start ;^) > > i am not foreign im amerkun heh Ah well I am in Britain, and since the truth knows no geological boundaries, that makes you foreign, even in America ;^) Ceri -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 14:46:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A844A37B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gldis.ca (constans.gldis.ca [66.11.169.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F1C43FAF for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gldisater@gldis.ca) Received: from gldis.ca (gldisater@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gldis.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h23Mk5gb026095; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:46:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gldisater@gldis.ca) Received: (from gldisater@localhost) by gldis.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h23Mk4WA026094; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:46:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:46:04 -0500 From: Jeremy Faulkner To: Larry Sica Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hi there Message-ID: <20030303224604.GA26053@constans.gldis.ca> References: <20030303105405.GA26031@submonkey.net> <23B7558A-4DB5-11D7-BDDE-000393A335A2@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <23B7558A-4DB5-11D7-BDDE-000393A335A2@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 03:17:21PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 05:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: > > >On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: > > > >>heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? > > > >If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. > >You, for a start ;^) > > > > i am not foreign im amerkun heh > > seriously since he said human i had to wonder if we have any > non-humans...true aliens..ya know little green men, women with 4 boobs > etc etc... How about the project's pet troll? Or perhaps the email address collecting spambots? -- Jeremy Faulkner http://www.gldis.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 3 20:12:29 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB7A37B401 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool-151-201-19-185.pitt.east.verizon.net (pool-151-201-19-185.pitt.east.verizon.net [151.201.19.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA5E543FBD for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:12:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dacut@kanga.org) Received: from kanga.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pool-151-201-19-185.pitt.east.verizon.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948B610C4B9 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 23:12:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E6427AA.5070408@kanga.org> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 23:12:26 -0500 From: David Cuthbert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030210 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More than 4 PCI devices - broken? References: <3E63CDD3.7080807@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3E63CDD3.7080807@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > I have more than 4 PCI devices in my machine (a Dell server) - but > FreeBSD only sees the first 4 (of 6). > > Has anyone else seen this? Is this a kernel tweak, or something I > missed when configuring it? Sounds like some kind of oddity with a PCI bridge, but that would make more sense if you saw the first three of six (assuming they're implemented in a 3-3 configuration). Is it correct to assume that another OS on the machine detects all six? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 4 1:35:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC04737B401 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BFB43F75 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:35:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id CA9E7530E; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:35:06 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More than 4 PCI devices - broken? From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:35:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <3E63CDD3.7080807@centtech.com> (Eric Anderson's message of "Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:49:07 -0600") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090014 (Oort Gnus v0.14) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) References: <3E63CDD3.7080807@centtech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson writes: > I have more than 4 PCI devices in my machine (a Dell server) - but > FreeBSD only sees the first 4 (of 6). The last two are probably behind an unsupported bridge. What does 'pciconf -lv' show? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 4 11:43: 9 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B02E37B401 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:43:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sub21-156.member.dsl-only.net (sub21-156.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.21.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9223443FA3 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:43:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nkinkade@sub21-156.member.dsl-only.net) Received: from nkinkade by sub21-156.member.dsl-only.net with local (Exim 4.10) id 18qIJf-0000hI-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:43:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:43:07 -0800 From: Nathan Kinkade To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD in Belize? Message-ID: <20030304194307.GC2461@sub21-156.member.dsl-only.net> Reply-To: nkinkade@dsl-only.net Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm going to Belize this coming June for an information technology assignment with the Peace Corps. A Google search for 'freebsd belize' returns about nothing useful. Does anyone know of any FreeBSD users or groups in Belize? The LUG in Belize is extant, but more of a name than an actual group. I guess I'm even looking for individuals who use FreeBSD down there who might be interested in collaborating? Anyone have any info or suggestions? Thanks! Regards, Nathan --=20 GPG Public Key ID: 0x4250A04C gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 4250A04C http://63.105.21.156/gpg_nkinkade_4250A04C.asc --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+ZQHLWZYS9EJQoEwRAoR+AJ99bkK09/RYn9HU1aIbNLjKdzvqHgCgrlTW W+L5Fm9D+nYBJK9/fzu7SBU= =0vkw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 4 13:31:19 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C72D37B401 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E9343FD7 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:31:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h24LVHmT017423 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:31:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([67.98.154.9]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB8UG500.82L; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:31:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:31:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Hi there Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: Ceri Davies From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <20030303215127.GA1416@submonkey.net> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 04:51 PM, Ceri Davies wrote: > On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 03:17:21PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: >> On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 05:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: >>> >>>> heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? >>> >>> If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. >>> You, for a start ;^) >> >> i am not foreign im amerkun heh > > Ah well I am in Britain, and since the truth knows no geological > boundaries, > that makes you foreign, even in America ;^) > damn you brit's and your british logic. hey i am part "native american" so nope ;P I am also very very bored --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 4 13:32:59 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADFC37B401 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:32:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FF243FB1 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com (asmtp01-qfe3 [10.13.10.65]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h24LWvtB019375 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([67.98.154.9]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HB8UIW00.BTL; Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:32:56 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:32:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Hi there Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: chat@freebsd.org To: Jeremy Faulkner From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <20030303224604.GA26053@constans.gldis.ca> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 05:46 PM, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: > On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 03:17:21PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: >> >> On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 05:54 AM, Ceri Davies wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 08:14:38PM -0500, Larry Sica wrote: >>> >>>> heh welcome Fi-Ji. BTW do we have any aliens on this list? >>> >>> If you mean do we have any foreigners, of course we do. >>> You, for a start ;^) >>> >> >> i am not foreign im amerkun heh >> >> seriously since he said human i had to wonder if we have any >> non-humans...true aliens..ya know little green men, women with 4 boobs >> etc etc... > > How about the project's pet troll? Or perhaps the email address > collecting spambots? > They are not aliens they are spawn of the Evil One > -- > Jeremy Faulkner http://www.gldis.ca > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 5 12: 9:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D1E37B401; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from trixie.teamspirit.com (trixie.teamspirit.com [216.120.9.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F290143FB1; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcontreras@smackopolis.com) Received: from coach.allsports.com (coach.allsports.com [216.120.9.200]) by trixie.teamspirit.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h25K9Hq18646; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:17 -0800 Received: (from www@localhost) by coach.allsports.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id h25K9Gw92479; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcontreras@smackopolis.com) Message-Id: <200303052009.h25K9Gw92479@coach.allsports.com> X-Authentication-Warning: coach.allsports.com: www set sender to jcontreras@smackopolis.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:09:16 -0800 From: "Joseph Contreras" Subject: FreeBSD 5.1 now available To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: jcontreras@smackopolis.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org =DA=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=BF =B3 =B3 =B3 N) . NNN _NL. =B3 =B3 (NN. (NN NNN) (NNNNN) =B3 =B3 (NN) `NN. (NNN) JNNNF4NN. =B3 =B3 (NN) NNN JNNN NNNN `NNL =B3 =B3 (NN) (NNN) NNNN. (NNN _. 4) =B3 =B3 (NN) (NNNN.(NNNN) NNNNNNN.) =B3 =B3 NNN) JNNNNNNNNNNN `NNNNNNN) =B3 =B3 NNN) NNNNNNNNNNNN 4F.NNNN =B3 =B3 NNN) NNNNNNNN(NNN NL.N.NNNNN =B3 =B3 NNNN NNN NNNF NNN) NNNNNNNNNF =B3 =B3 (NNN 4NN (NN) NNN) `NNNNNNNN) =B3 =B3 4NF 4N (NN `NN) 4NNNNNF =B3 =B3 () N (F (N (FJ =B3 =B3 () J `) ()4 =B3 =B3 `` ` `` =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 Immortals Team PRESENTS =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 FreeBSD 5.1-BETA =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 http://www.freebsd.org =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 Cracker : kber =B3 =C0=C42003.02.28=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=D9 A lot of people thought we were dead, but we're back with a kick ass release! Cracker : kber Protection: Securom 2 Packager: pull Size: 45x15M News: Pull-Henneeng Kunt and Joseph Contreras=20 joined as couriers. Greetz: Razor 1911, The Fumerola Crew, Scott Long=20 ------------------------ Wanna talk SMACK or get your own rocking email address? Bring it on! Smackopolis.com - http://www.smackopolis.com/ Have you seen AllSports.com for your sports news and more! http://www.allsports.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 5 12: 9:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD4437B401; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from trixie.teamspirit.com (trixie.teamspirit.com [216.120.9.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BB743FE1; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcontreras@smackopolis.com) Received: from coach.allsports.com (coach.allsports.com [216.120.9.200]) by trixie.teamspirit.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h25K9tq18816; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:55 -0800 Received: (from www@localhost) by coach.allsports.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id h25K9s792680; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcontreras@smackopolis.com) Message-Id: <200303052009.h25K9s792680@coach.allsports.com> X-Authentication-Warning: coach.allsports.com: www set sender to jcontreras@smackopolis.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:09:54 -0800 From: "Joseph Contreras" Subject: FreeBSD 4.9 now available To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: jcontreras@smackopolis.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org =DA=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=BF =B3 =B3 =B3 N) . NNN _NL. =B3 =B3 (NN. (NN NNN) (NNNNN) =B3 =B3 (NN) `NN. (NNN) JNNNF4NN. =B3 =B3 (NN) NNN JNNN NNNN `NNL =B3 =B3 (NN) (NNN) NNNN. (NNN _. 4) =B3 =B3 (NN) (NNNN.(NNNN) NNNNNNN.) =B3 =B3 NNN) JNNNNNNNNNNN `NNNNNNN) =B3 =B3 NNN) NNNNNNNNNNNN 4F.NNNN =B3 =B3 NNN) NNNNNNNN(NNN NL.N.NNNNN =B3 =B3 NNNN NNN NNNF NNN) NNNNNNNNNF =B3 =B3 (NNN 4NN (NN) NNN) `NNNNNNNN) =B3 =B3 4NF 4N (NN `NN) 4NNNNNF =B3 =B3 () N (F (N (FJ =B3 =B3 () J `) ()4 =B3 =B3 `` ` `` =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 Immortals Team PRESENTS =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 FreeBSD 4.9-BETA =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 http://www.freebsd.org =B3 =C3=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=B4 =B3 Cracker : kber =B3 =C0=C42003.02.28=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4= =C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=C4=D9 A lot of people thought we were dead, but we're back with a kick ass release! Cracker : kber Protection: Securom 2 Packager: pull Size: 45x15M News: Pull-Henneeng Kunt and Joseph Contreras=20 joined as couriers. Greetz: Razor 1911, The Fumerola Crew, Scott Long=20 ------------------------ Wanna talk SMACK or get your own rocking email address? Bring it on! Smackopolis.com - http://www.smackopolis.com/ Have you seen AllSports.com for your sports news and more! http://www.allsports.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 5 16:58:49 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B7E37B401 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from firehouse.net (machine-254.firehouse.net [192.160.237.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 383B643F3F for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:58:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alan-sender-52b549@clegg.com) Received: (qmail 40922 invoked by uid 85); 6 Mar 2003 00:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO machine-254.firehouse.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost.ncren.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2003 00:58:43 -0000 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:58:42 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.1 now available Message-ID: <20030306005842.GA40046@shazam.wetworks.org> References: <200303052009.h25K9Gw92479@coach.allsports.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+QahgC5+KEYLbs62" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200303052009.h25K9Gw92479@coach.allsports.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: "Alan B. Clegg" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.70 (Pensive) X-TMDA-Fingerprint: MpAhIzEU1r7NM5ZTlshdF7edUWc X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unless the network is lying to me again, Joseph Contreras said:=20 > ????????????????????????????????????????? Being a tracker of the "warez" trends, I found these announcements to be quite humorous. Thanks! AlanC --=20 I must study politics and war that my sons | may have liberty to study mathematics and | alan@clegg.com philosophy. -- John Adams | --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+Zp1CyJP8xSfQVdsRAq0LAJ0RUEbhD0TnVlpTUUSv640hawwSKgCcCNPx veDFnunzrcZY/vY+w3m03uw= =kZ2M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 6 11: 9:34 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB9F37B401 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-87.apple.com [17.250.248.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C0743FBF for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:09:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h26J9WtB008560 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([67.98.154.9]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HBCD7W00.G6Z; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:09:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 14:09:37 -0500 Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.1 now available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: "Alan B. Clegg" From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <20030306005842.GA40046@shazam.wetworks.org> Message-Id: <2C70FFFE-5007-11D7-8639-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 07:58 PM, Alan B. Clegg wrote: > Unless the network is lying to me again, Joseph Contreras said: > >> ????????????????????????????????????????? > > Being a tracker of the "warez" trends, I found these announcements > to be quite humorous. > > Thanks! > AlanC > -- > I must study politics and war that my sons | > may have liberty to study mathematics and | alan@clegg.com > philosophy. -- John Adams | > I gots 0-day FreeBSD 5.1 EMAIL IF INTRESTD K THNX --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 6 20: 9:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2750E37B401 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from leviathan.cnchost.com (leviathan.cnchost.com [207.155.252.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D78C43FA3 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:09:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by leviathan.cnchost.com id XAA26031; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:09:15 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.15] Message-ID: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:09:14 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,920733,00.asp ... At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual property it owned. ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 6 21:24:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C1737B401 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E9B143F93 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:24:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-209.245.140.7.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.140.7] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rALk-0004lB-00; Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:24:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3E682CA9.D1ED95A5@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:22:49 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bakul Shah Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit References: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a41b8fcf76857145bc9fd6eda6b2073ede548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bakul Shah wrote: > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,920733,00.asp > > ... > At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company > had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal > firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and > versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual > property it owned. > ... I have to really laugh. First, the USL/UCB lawsuit settlement, once and for all, decided the question of whether or not the UNIX source code contains trade secrets: it doesn't. Second, Sun bought out of their royalty agreements, with a license in perpetuity, and, among other things, they published the Solaris Source code: even if it could be argued that trade secrets were added after the version from which the UCB code was licensed, the trade secrets are well and truly disclosed now, by Sun. The fact that they are going after IBM for disclosure seems to indicate that this is an attempt to cast it as a trade secret disclosure issue; otherwise we would be reading about them going after Red Hat. Third, one of the things that USL sold, prior to its sale by AT&T to Novell, was transferrable licenses to universities; one of the ones I went to bought one of these, and we went around and grabbed the serial numbers off of every piece of class A and class B computing equipment that qualified as a recipient of the license. That included every VT100, VT102, VT220, Televideo 910, 915, 925, modem, etc. that we had, so that we would be assured of our ability to have it for 100 times the number of CPUs than we had at the time, as a way of planning for the future. It'd probably be pretty cheap for IBM to buy one of these licenses (they say they have over 30,000 licensees, and these were probably common terms for most of the educational licensees) off a University that's not using the SVR4 source code any more (e.g. using BSD or Linux instead). I know my University, which was relatively small, ended up with some 300 and something transferrable licenses. Assuming 1/3 of their licensees are similar educational licenses, and that our university was average, there's a good 3,000,000 of those things out there and available for purchase at rock bottom prices. 8-). The only real issue they have might be Copyright; however... the thing they claim they are upset about is disclosure of code to the Linux community. But, this is, I think, an error on their part: perhaps they are not understanding that the JFS code that IBM released was derived from OS/2, and not from AIX? I'm not sure what other code they could mean. IBM delayed the DOJ on an antitrust action for what, 10 years? And they delayed a second one for what, 20 years, until the DOJ just gave up? Who here thinks SCO is going to last that long if this is their new revenue model? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 6 22: 3:26 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78BF37B406 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 22:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from tonnant.cnchost.com (tonnant.concentric.net [207.155.248.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76AA843FAF for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 22:03:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by tonnant.cnchost.com id BAA29619; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:03:23 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.15] Message-ID: <200303070603.BAA29619@tonnant.cnchost.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:22:49 PST." <3E682CA9.D1ED95A5@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 22:03:23 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I have to really laugh. I figured you guys needed something to laugh about. I wonder if next they will sue AT&T. Imagine DMR's machine being confiscated for running Unix. Good thing he has moved on to Plan9. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 6 23:25:33 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6746F37B401 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2966343FA3 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:25:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 1223C5310; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:25:27 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Bakul Shah Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 08:25:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> (Bakul Shah's message of "Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:09:14 -0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090014 (Oort Gnus v0.14) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) References: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bakul Shah writes: > At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company > had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal > firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and > versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual > property it owned. *groan* not again... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 6 23:35:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 165B337B401 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.213.64.2] (firewall.tiadon.com [204.213.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224FA43F93 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:35:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from rmc.tiadon.com by [204.213.64.2] via smtpd (for mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) with ESMTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:35:22 -0600 Received: from applications.tiadon.com (mail.tiadon.com [172.16.18.172]) by bcec01.tiadon.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id DKVJJL5J; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:35:21 -0600 Received: from firewall.tiadon.com ([204.213.65.185]) by applications.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:35:28 -0600 Received: from [204.213.65.185] by firewall.tiadon.com via smtpd (for mail.tiadon.com [172.16.18.172]) with ESMTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:35:19 -0600 Message-ID: <002101c2e47b$a4faded0$0100a8c0@DaleCoportable> Reply-To: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." From: "Kevin Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: References: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:31:58 -0600 Organization: DaleCo, S.P.---"the solutions people" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" To: "Bakul Shah" Cc: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 1:25 AM Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit > Bakul Shah writes: > > At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company > > had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal > > firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and > > versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual > > property it owned. > > *groan* not again... > > DES > -- Wow, heard that echo on this side o' the pond... or was that "me, too!" ? Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 1: 6:41 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FBF37B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:06:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9754043F93 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:06:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25312; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 02:06:30 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030307020546.02bfcb00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 02:06:29 -0700 To: Bakul Shah , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit In-Reply-To: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:09 PM 3/6/2003, Bakul Shah wrote: > ... > At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company > had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal > firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and > versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual > property it owned. All they need to do is take it to the Supreme Court, which didn't seem to think much of Boies the last time. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 8: 4:59 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B5837B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:04:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32AC43F93 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:04:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h27G4iXl001824 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HBDZBW00.KW4; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:04:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:04:50 -0500 Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: Bakul Shah From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <200303070409.XAA26031@leviathan.cnchost.com> Message-Id: <86ADEAAE-50B6-11D7-82DA-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 11:09 PM, Bakul Shah wrote: > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,920733,00.asp > > ... > At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company > had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal > firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and > versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual > property it owned. > ... The dying gasps of SCO. SCO is not going to be able to deal with the IBM legal juggernaut. I see this as an attempt to drum up cash and maybe some press for them --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 8:17:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86BAB37B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-88.apple.com [17.250.248.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91D943FA3 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h27GHHiO003354 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HBDZWT00.GSE; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:17:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:17:23 -0500 Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: Bakul Shah , chat@FreeBSD.ORG To: Brett Glass From: Larry Sica In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030307020546.02bfcb00@localhost> Message-Id: <4790E71A-50B8-11D7-82DA-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 04:06 AM, Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:09 PM 3/6/2003, Bakul Shah wrote: > >> ... >> At that time he also confirmed to eWeek that the company >> had hired high-profile attorney David Boies and his legal >> firm to investigate whether Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and >> versions of BSD infringed on the Unix intellectual >> property it owned. > > All they need to do is take it to the Supreme Court, which > didn't seem to think much of Boies the last time. > > --Brett > It won't reach there. IBM is very good at delaying things. Also They have to go through the normal legal process which I don't think SCO has the money to do. They are trying to bully ibm for a payoff. IBM does not get bullied either heh. --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 8:34:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7AF37B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.merchantsbarter.com (server.merchantsbarter.com [198.78.66.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55C543F3F for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from damien@tougas.net) Received: from buddy.home.tougas.net (bangor44.hypernet.com [208.229.12.44]) by server.merchantsbarter.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF88108D for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:34:43 -0800 (PST) From: Damien Tougas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: A question about kernel modules Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:34:27 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200303071134.27979.damien@tougas.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using kernel moduls vs. staticly linking stuff in the kernel? I would like to eliminate everything from my kernel config that can be loaded as a module, then load them at boot using loader.conf. Is there any reason I would not want to do that? It seems to me that it would make things much easier. Why does FreeBSD not do this by default for the GENERIC kernel? Thanks. -- Damien Tougas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 11:11:23 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C692037B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D9BD43FAF for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-209.244.106.70.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.244.106.70] helo=mindspring.com) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rNEy-0005Zf-00; Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:10:45 -0800 Message-ID: <3E68EE65.56BF740D@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:09:25 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry Sica Cc: Brett Glass , Bakul Shah , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit References: <4790E71A-50B8-11D7-82DA-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a42d1b21c22560b1439728cb77fbf0abb0666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Larry Sica wrote: > It won't reach there. IBM is very good at delaying things. Also They > have to go through the normal legal process which I don't think SCO has > the money to do. They are trying to bully ibm for a payoff. IBM does > not get bullied either heh. They also have the patent portfolio from hell. IBM files more patents each year than all other US filers combined. The can always just say "We're so sorry; we're quite willing to pay; there's just this small matter of these 11,731 patents of ours that UNIX infringes". IBM has 5 patents they belive SQUID infringes; that why we were not allowed to ship SQUID on the InterJet II, due to the GPL giving away licensing for that patent. It's also why there is no "IBM Linux", and they always partner with a Linux company to provide Linux for their machines, when they sell a Linux-based solution. If SQUID or Linux ever became a threat in the hands of a commercial competitor, they could crush them like a bug. I have a real love/hate relationship with IBM over tactics like this: they are incredibly smart about some things, but incredibly dumb about others. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 11:29:15 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F079737B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6373F43F75 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:29:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-209.244.106.70.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.244.106.70] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rNWl-0000sp-00; Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:29:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3E68F2B2.43FB7053@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:27:46 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Damien Tougas Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules References: <200303071134.27979.damien@tougas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a460c48d44cf3abd00545302e775b8f320350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Damien Tougas wrote: > Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using kernel moduls vs. staticly > linking stuff in the kernel? I would like to eliminate everything from my > kernel config that can be loaded as a module, then load them at boot using > loader.conf. Is there any reason I would not want to do that? It seems to me > that it would make things much easier. Code in the boot path which must operate before the kernel is fully up can not be handled as modules. In general, drivers which require large contiguous chunks of physical memory (e.g. video capture cards) must obtain their memory before much has been done, since physical memory fragments quickly under the influence of aggressive page caching, etc.. Some interfaces do not have the indirect references necessary to allow modules which attach to them to be dynamically loaded (e.g. networking stacks in general, or the TCP and IP protocol boundary, as a specific example). > Why does FreeBSD not do this by default for the GENERIC kernel? The GENERIC kernel is loaded from a CDROM controller BIOS faked-up floppy drive, which is how CDROMs are able to boot. Even if all other issues were resolved, this floppy image would be unable to contain all the necessary modules. For the modules to be read off the CDROM or other boot media, all the code in the module loading path would have to be statically present (ISO9660 FS, ATA and SCSI drivers, CDROM driver, etc., etc.). By including all the drivers in the GENERIC kernel, it makes it much more likely that you will b able to actually install FreeBSD in the first place. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 11:39:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25EAC37B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail17.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C74F43F85 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 17976 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2003 19:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail17.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Mar 2003 19:39:25 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h27JaFhT055408; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:36:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3E68F2B2.43FB7053@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:39:32 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Damien Tougas Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 07-Mar-2003 Terry Lambert wrote: > The GENERIC kernel is loaded from a CDROM controller BIOS faked-up > floppy drive, which is how CDROMs are able to boot. Even if all > other issues were resolved, this floppy image would be unable to > contain all the necessary modules. For the modules to be read off > the CDROM or other boot media, all the code in the module loading > path would have to be statically present (ISO9660 FS, ATA and SCSI > drivers, CDROM driver, etc., etc.). By including all the drivers > in the GENERIC kernel, it makes it much more likely that you will > b able to actually install FreeBSD in the first place. FreeBSD hasn't used the floppy-emulation mode of CD booting since 4.6. See /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/cdboot/cdboot.s and an El Torito standard for more details. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 11:50:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D930237B405; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531C243FBF; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-209.244.106.70.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.244.106.70] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rNr6-0004yU-00; Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:50:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3E68F79D.817B46E6@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:48:45 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Damien Tougas Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4135c92432a688bd870ee3910824fc3d12601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Baldwin wrote: > > The GENERIC kernel is loaded from a CDROM controller BIOS faked-up > > floppy drive, which is how CDROMs are able to boot. Even if all > > other issues were resolved, this floppy image would be unable to > > contain all the necessary modules. For the modules to be read off > > the CDROM or other boot media, all the code in the module loading > > path would have to be statically present (ISO9660 FS, ATA and SCSI > > drivers, CDROM driver, etc., etc.). By including all the drivers > > in the GENERIC kernel, it makes it much more likely that you will > > b able to actually install FreeBSD in the first place. > > FreeBSD hasn't used the floppy-emulation mode of CD booting since > 4.6. See /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/cdboot/cdboot.s and an El Torito > standard for more details. Oops; I was looking at a 4.5 box, which is what I mostly use to do scratch work. The main point was that we get to load only one file, and have no CDROM access after that, except through drivers which must be present in the kernel. I think that's still valid to say. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 12:25:48 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3F737B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424EB43F85 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:25:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 11855 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2003 20:25:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Mar 2003 20:25:52 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h27KMfhT055533; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:22:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3E68F79D.817B46E6@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:25:59 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules Cc: Damien Tougas , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 07-Mar-2003 Terry Lambert wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: >> > The GENERIC kernel is loaded from a CDROM controller BIOS faked-up >> > floppy drive, which is how CDROMs are able to boot. Even if all >> > other issues were resolved, this floppy image would be unable to >> > contain all the necessary modules. For the modules to be read off >> > the CDROM or other boot media, all the code in the module loading >> > path would have to be statically present (ISO9660 FS, ATA and SCSI >> > drivers, CDROM driver, etc., etc.). By including all the drivers >> > in the GENERIC kernel, it makes it much more likely that you will >> > b able to actually install FreeBSD in the first place. >> >> FreeBSD hasn't used the floppy-emulation mode of CD booting since >> 4.6. See /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/cdboot/cdboot.s and an El Torito >> standard for more details. > > Oops; I was looking at a 4.5 box, which is what I mostly use to > do scratch work. > > The main point was that we get to load only one file, and have no > CDROM access after that, except through drivers which must be > present in the kernel. I think that's still valid to say. Nope. cdboot loads up a /boot/loader and you are free to load whatever modules you want off the CD just as if you were booting from a hard drive. That said, I personally favor static kernels and only use modules when I'm testing things. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 12:55: 7 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F5B37B401 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:55:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E565343F3F for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:55:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h27Kt2Io013814; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:55:03 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.7/8.12.7/Submit) with UUCP id h27Kt2T6013813; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:55:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grimreaper.grondar.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h27KpJIg015872; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 20:51:19 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200303072051.h27KpJIg015872@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Damien Tougas , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:27:46 PST." <3E68F2B2.43FB7053@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 20:51:19 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > Damien Tougas wrote: > > Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using kernel moduls vs. staticly > > linking stuff in the kernel? I would like to eliminate everything from my > > kernel config that can be loaded as a module, then load them at boot using > > loader.conf. Is there any reason I would not want to do that? It seems to m > e > > that it would make things much easier. > > Code in the boot path which must operate before the kernel is > fully up can not be handled as modules. Rubbish. Such modules may have a problem with being loaded at runtime, but they can be loaded by the bootloader. > In general, drivers which require large contiguous chunks of physical > memory (e.g. video capture cards) must obtain their memory before > much has been done, since physical memory fragments quickly under the > influence of aggressive page caching, etc.. No problem. bktr_mem is such a module. > Some interfaces do not have the indirect references necessary to > allow modules which attach to them to be dynamically loaded (e.g. > networking stacks in general, or the TCP and IP protocol boundary, > as a specific example). That may be a problem today, but it is not insurmountable. > > Why does FreeBSD not do this by default for the GENERIC kernel? > > The GENERIC kernel is loaded from a CDROM controller BIOS faked-up > floppy drive, which is how CDROMs are able to boot. Even if all > other issues were resolved, this floppy image would be unable to > contain all the necessary modules. For the modules to be read off > the CDROM or other boot media, all the code in the module loading > path would have to be statically present (ISO9660 FS, ATA and SCSI > drivers, CDROM driver, etc., etc.). By including all the drivers > in the GENERIC kernel, it makes it much more likely that you will > b able to actually install FreeBSD in the first place. 50% correct. M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 16: 0:33 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB6237B401; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from port995.com (port995.com [213.162.97.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013B543F3F; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:00:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@cream.org) Received: by port995.com (Port995 Mail, from userid 77) id DF41714076D7; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:00:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cream.org (213-48-107-69.edi.cvx.blueyonder.co.uk [213.48.107.69]) by port995.com (Port995 Mail) with ESMTP id 521C814076B5; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:00:15 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3E69329B.2040803@cream.org> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 00:00:27 +0000 From: Andrew Boothman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.2b) Gecko/20030104 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Baldwin wrote: >>The main point was that we get to load only one file, and have no >>CDROM access after that, except through drivers which must be >>present in the kernel. I think that's still valid to say. >> >> > >Nope. cdboot loads up a /boot/loader and you are free to load >whatever modules you want off the CD just as if you were booting >from a hard drive. That said, I personally favor static kernels >and only use modules when I'm testing things. > I guess this is really the nub of the question. Why do you "personally favour" static kernels over modules? I, like you, tend to compile everything into my kernel but that's more out of habit than for any other reason as I have been compiling kernels since about 2.2.7 which I think pre-dates kernel modules. Andrew. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 16:53:28 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9341D37B408 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:53:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from seven.Alameda.net (seven.Alameda.net [64.81.63.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BF543FB1 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Alameda.net) Received: by seven.Alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 58DA33A201; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:53:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:53:22 -0800 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Why I hate Redhat and Oracle ..... Message-ID: <20030307165322.H11496@seven.alameda.net> Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So our company decides to switch our Oracle servers from Solaris to Redhat x86 because of Oracle RAC and having to pay so much more on Solaris (Veritas is required). Working with HP on this (no, they are still really Compaq people). They got propritary scripts and as it looks like drivers for their hardware and Redhat AS. Redhat offers AS Developer Edition, in theory a platform fo you to test your application or third party drivers/ applications on. But no: This does not appear to be the correct distribution. expecting redhat-release: Red Hat Linux Advanced Server release 2.1AS (Pensacola) Found /etc/redhat-release: Red Hat Linux Advanced Server release 2.1ASDE Developer Edition (Destin) Won't work .... ok, bite the bullet, buy AS now ... loading www.redhat.com Advanced Server Basic ... sold out Advanced Server Standard ... Available Advanced Server Premium ... Available. What is the difference between them ? The type of support you get. Try to call their sales line ... all gone home already... PLEASE ORACLE, PORT YOUR DAMN PRODUCT TO FREEBSD. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 19:46:39 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE07B37B401; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.merchantsbarter.com (server.merchantsbarter.com [198.78.66.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EB043FA3; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from damien@tougas.net) Received: from buddy.home.tougas.net (unknown [204.176.40.170]) by server.merchantsbarter.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5623511AB; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:46:34 -0800 (PST) From: Damien Tougas To: Andrew Boothman , John Baldwin Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:46:18 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <3E69329B.2040803@cream.org> In-Reply-To: <3E69329B.2040803@cream.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200303072246.18636.damien@tougas.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday 07 March 2003 07:00 pm, Andrew Boothman wrote: > >Nope. cdboot loads up a /boot/loader and you are free to load > >whatever modules you want off the CD just as if you were booting > >from a hard drive. That said, I personally favor static kernels > >and only use modules when I'm testing things. > > I guess this is really the nub of the question. > > Why do you "personally favour" static kernels over modules? Yes, that really is the question. I have traditionally always done the same, compiling everything into my kernel. I guess I am wondering what the point of kernel modules are, and if they are considered to be a stable, viable way of configuring my kernel. If there are good reasons why I should not use them (or not use them in specific situations), I would be intersted in knowing what those are. > I, like you, tend to compile everything into my kernel but that's more > out of habit than for any other reason as I have been compiling kernels > since about 2.2.7 which I think pre-dates kernel modules. I don't know much about the technology behind kernel modules, but I get the sense that people get used to doing things a certain way, and stick with it because it is what they have always done, regardless if there is another way (even if it might be technically better - although I am in no position to be the judge of that in this situation). From a convenience standpoint, kernel modules seem much more practical to me. I like the idea of being able to load/unload device drivers, etc. at runtime. I, however, have no idea what the impact is on things like stability and performance. -- Damien Tougas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 7 22:48:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847BB37B401; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C888243FB1; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-209.245.137.181.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.137.181] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rY8N-0004Py-00; Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:48:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3E6991F4.F8A10E3A@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:47:16 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Damien Tougas Cc: Andrew Boothman , John Baldwin , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules References: <3E69329B.2040803@cream.org> <200303072246.18636.damien@tougas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a47f389623d165e9e85fa28d9a0e6709c62601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Damien Tougas wrote: > On Friday 07 March 2003 07:00 pm, Andrew Boothman wrote: > > >Nope. cdboot loads up a /boot/loader and you are free to load > > >whatever modules you want off the CD just as if you were booting > > >from a hard drive. That said, I personally favor static kernels > > >and only use modules when I'm testing things. > > > > I guess this is really the nub of the question. > > > > Why do you "personally favour" static kernels over modules? > > Yes, that really is the question. I have traditionally always done the same, > compiling everything into my kernel. I guess I am wondering what the point of > kernel modules are, and if they are considered to be a stable, viable way of > configuring my kernel. If there are good reasons why I should not use them > (or not use them in specific situations), I would be intersted in knowing > what those are. The dependency tracking sucks, and so does demand-loading. If you look at the module code with the idea of loading *at least one* ethernet driver before you could load IP, and having to load IP before you could load TCP, and then look at the code to see what this would take, you will be enlightened. There are also certain options which cause structure sizes to change, which are associated with particular things. As an example, the IPSEC stuff can't really be modularized, because there's per connection state that has to be there for it to be happy. Another issue having to do with structure size is that if the module you are trying to load was not compiled with the same options as the kernel you are trying to load it into, even if all the version stuff matches, including the proposed new versioning data, the structure sizes expected by the module and by the kernel can be different. A good example of this is something like "WITNESS" or "INVARIANTS", etc.. The fact that the API contracts are not as fixed as they should be adds to the uncertainty (e.g. there is no DDI or DKI, as such, in FreeBSD). Basically, it's not really "ready for prime time", in terms of third party binary-only modules, which is the most interesting use for them, by far. > > I, like you, tend to compile everything into my kernel but that's more > > out of habit than for any other reason as I have been compiling kernels > > since about 2.2.7 which I think pre-dates kernel modules. > > I don't know much about the technology behind kernel modules, but I get the > sense that people get used to doing things a certain way, and stick with it > because it is what they have always done, regardless if there is another way > (even if it might be technically better - although I am in no position to be > the judge of that in this situation). If something's in the kernel, proper, I'm guaranteed it woun't have a problem loading, so that when I need it, it will be there. With a module, theres an element of risk, due to reasons stated previously, and the reasons above. > >From a convenience standpoint, kernel modules seem much more practical to me. > > I like the idea of being able to load/unload device drivers, etc. at runtime. > I, however, have no idea what the impact is on things like stability and > performance. The normal performance cost is all interfaces being indirected through a pointer. For most interfaces, this overhead is there anyway, so that all access is uniform. For other things, like schedulers, for example, the functions are linked directly, so they have to be resolved at compile time. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 1: 0:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4791D37B401; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 01:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073C343FE0; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 01:00:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h28903Io015524; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:00:03 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.7/8.12.7/Submit) with UUCP id h28903s1015523; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:00:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grimreaper.grondar.org (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h288ubIg021994; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:56:37 GMT (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200303080856.h288ubIg021994@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Damien Tougas , Andrew Boothman , John Baldwin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question about kernel modules In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:47:16 PST." <3E6991F4.F8A10E3A@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:56:37 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > > configuring my kernel. If there are good reasons why I should not use them > > (or not use them in specific situations), I would be intersted in knowing > > what those are. > > The dependency tracking sucks, and so does demand-loading. If > you look at the module code with the idea of loading *at least > one* ethernet driver before you could load IP, and having to > load IP before you could load TCP, and then look at the code to > see what this would take, you will be enlightened. That is not the way you would do it. Each Ethernet module would require IP, which in turn would co-require TCP and co-require UDP etc. If you tried to load IP with no ethernet driver, you'd get the loopback device, and TCP/UDP etc. Other tweaks would need to be done if you need IPX instead of IP. > There are also certain options which cause structure sizes to > change, which are associated with particular things. As an > example, the IPSEC stuff can't really be modularized, because > there's per connection state that has to be there for it to > be happy. Possibly. > Another issue having to do with structure size is that if the > module you are trying to load was not compiled with the same > options as the kernel you are trying to load it into, even if > all the version stuff matches, including the proposed new > versioning data, the structure sizes expected by the module > and by the kernel can be different. A good example of this is > something like "WITNESS" or "INVARIANTS", etc.. Hmm. Maybe its time for a export of certain compile-time options. > The normal performance cost is all interfaces being indirected > through a pointer. For most interfaces, this overhead is there > anyway, so that all access is uniform. For other things, like > schedulers, for example, the functions are linked directly, so > they have to be resolved at compile time. Certian things (like the scheduler) would be harder to make into modules. This is true. M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 3:17:26 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A8E37B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 03:17:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from xeon.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA3D43FAF for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 03:17:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: by xeon.unixathome.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1DDE83F4A; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 06:18:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xeon.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DE43F49; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 06:18:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 06:18:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@xeon.unixathome.org To: Ulf Zimmermann Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why I hate Redhat and Oracle ..... In-Reply-To: <20030307165322.H11496@seven.alameda.net> Message-ID: <20030308061511.A63630@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20030307165322.H11496@seven.alameda.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Won't work .... ok, bite the bullet, buy AS now ... loading www.redhat.com > Advanced Server Basic ... sold out > Advanced Server Standard ... Available > Advanced Server Premium ... Available. > > What is the difference between them ? The type of support you get. > Try to call their sales line ... all gone home already... At a recent series of PostgreSQL seminars, Bruce Momjian found that people were asking questions with respect to Oracle, not mySQL as some might expect. It seems that more and more people are moving to PostgreSQL from Oracle. See http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-announce/2003-02/msg00007.php > PLEASE ORACLE, PORT YOUR DAMN PRODUCT TO FREEBSD. That would be nice. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 10:28:12 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C8537B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 10:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E69143F3F for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 10:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lneves@netcabo.pt) Received: from 192.168.1.100 ([81.84.94.101]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:26:12 +0000 From: Luis Neves To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: I'm curious :-) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:28:16 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200303081828.16193.lneves@netcabo.pt> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2003 18:26:12.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[32A2E6E0:01C2E5A0] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org See here: http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=603 http://slashdot.org/articles/03/03/08/162218.shtml?tid=104&tid=106 What is this "Interactivity" problem that Linus is complaining about? I never experienced anything similar with my FreeBSD box :-) Just for kicks I tried to listen to some mp3 , compile /sysutils/cdbakeoven, burn a cd, watch the new Animatrix episode and drag around a xterm window (Unfortunately I can't take a screenshot of me dragging the window): http://pwp.netcabo.pt/lneves/mykde/fbsd_interactivity.png Everything was smooth. The next time I hear somebody saying that Linux is a better desktop platform than FreeBSD I think I'm going to it him/her with a clue bat. Best regards, Luis Neves To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 10:40:39 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FD637B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 10:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7EF43FB1 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 10:40:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from user-0cev12u.cable.mindspring.com ([24.239.132.94] helo=bluerondo.a.la.turk) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rjFM-0002zI-01 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2003 10:40:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 3239 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Mar 2003 18:40:38 -0000 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:40:38 -0500 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Luis Neves Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I'm curious :-) Message-ID: <20030308184038.GA3218@online.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Luis Neves , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200303081828.16193.lneves@netcabo.pt> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Luis Neves wrote: > What is this "Interactivity" problem that Linus is complaining about? > I never experienced anything similar with my FreeBSD box :-) > > Just for kicks I tried to listen to some mp3 , compile /sysutils/cdbakeoven, > burn a cd, watch the new Animatrix episode and drag around a xterm window > (Unfortunately I can't take a screenshot of me dragging the window): It depends on how much CPU power and RAM you have, and how much your processes are consuming. At moderate levels of memory usage and disk I/O, linux is indeed more "interactive": you get (or, at least, I get) skips in audio, frame drops with mplayer, etc, much more under FreeBSD (either 4.x or 5.0) than under Linux. The "jerkiness" of window movements is especially common under freebsd: when the system is busy, it seems to take a while for X to respond to mouse clicks, etc. At high loads, however, linux becomes practically unusable. (I haven't tried the 2.5 kernel or recent 2.4 kernels). FreeBSD, even when heavily stressed, locks up for a few seconds, swaps a bit, possibly kills the offending process, and then proceeds as normal. Linux often requires a reboot. - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 11:31:32 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6236A37B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661C343FAF for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lneves@netcabo.pt) Received: from 192.168.1.100 ([81.84.94.101]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:29:32 +0000 From: Luis Neves To: Rahul Siddharthan Subject: Re: I'm curious :-) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:31:29 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20030308184038.GA3218@online.fr> In-Reply-To: <20030308184038.GA3218@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200303081931.29012.lneves@netcabo.pt> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2003 19:29:32.0837 (UTC) FILETIME=[0BB3ED50:01C2E5A9] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday 08 March 2003 18:40, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > It depends on how much CPU power and RAM you have, and how much your > processes are consuming. Currently I have a AthlonXP 1700 and ~500M of RAM. > At moderate levels of memory usage and disk I/O, linux is indeed more > "interactive": you get (or, at least, I get) skips in audio, frame > drops with mplayer, etc, much more under FreeBSD (either 4.x or 5.0) > than under Linux. > The "jerkiness" of window movements is especially > common under freebsd: when the system is busy, it seems to take a > while for X to respond to mouse clicks, etc. I don't use Linux, so I don't know. But like I said, I never experienced any skips in audio and/or framedrops with mplayer (try to change the buffer size in XMMS and the cache size in mplayer, and see if the helps) > At high loads, however, linux becomes practically unusable. (I > haven't tried the 2.5 kernel or recent 2.4 kernels). FreeBSD, even > when heavily stressed, locks up for a few seconds, swaps a bit, > possibly kills the offending process, and then proceeds as normal. > Linux often requires a reboot. Moshe Bar in a series of articles for Byte magazine where he stressed tested both Linux and FreeBSD said more or less the same thing: http://www.byte.com/servinglinux/2001/01/ But most of the issues seem to be solved: http://www.byte.com/servinglinux/2001/11/ Unfortunately these articles are not available to general public anymore, only to subscribers :-( Best regards, Luis Neves To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 11:36:43 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB5E37B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F2743F75 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:36:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from user-0cev12u.cable.mindspring.com ([24.239.132.94] helo=bluerondo.a.la.turk) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18rk7a-0003QB-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:36:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 3432 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Mar 2003 19:36:40 -0000 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:36:40 -0500 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Luis Neves Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I'm curious :-) Message-ID: <20030308193640.GA3414@online.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Luis Neves , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20030308184038.GA3218@online.fr> <200303081931.29012.lneves@netcabo.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200303081931.29012.lneves@netcabo.pt> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Luis Neves wrote: > On Saturday 08 March 2003 18:40, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > It depends on how much CPU power and RAM you have, and how much your > > processes are consuming. > > Currently I have a AthlonXP 1700 and ~500M of RAM. I think you'll have to try rather hard to stress that out -- under normal use even windows should do fine :) I have a Celeron 800 MHz with 128 MB RAM, and that already works fine except under rather extreme conditions. I do find however that heavy disk activity slows things down -- eg, X freezes for a second or two if I'm doing "make clean" in a large port with lots of dependencies, or untarring a very large file (like the mozilla source). R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 15:34:57 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FA937B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from net.wau.nl (NET.WAU.NL [137.224.10.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E6B43FA3 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from FST777@phreaker.net) Received: from asser079.athome239.wau.nl (asser079.athome239.wau.nl [137.224.239.79]) by net.WAU.NL (PMDF V5.2-32 #38746) with ESMTP id <0HBG00FF7ETYU6@net.WAU.NL> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Mar 2003 00:34:46 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:34:56 +0100 (CET) From: "Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek" Subject: Re: I'm curious :-) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: FST777@phreaker.net Message-id: <0HBG00FF8ETYU6@net.WAU.NL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Spruce 0.6.5 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.9 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I use a 486DX4 running at 133MHz with 32 Megs RAM. I'm using it with FreeBSD right now to type my mail. I've tried several Linux-distro's on this machine in the past and NONE of them worked as good as FreeBSD works now (Vector-Linux came close...). Everything goes more or less smooth (off-course I can't do too much regarding internet), no sudden program-kills so far, no reboots required EVER. On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:36:40 -0500 > To: Luis Neves > From: Rahul Siddharthan > Subject: Re: I'm curious :-) > > Luis Neves wrote: > > On Saturday 08 March 2003 18:40, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > It depends on how much CPU power and RAM you have, and how much your > > > processes are consuming. > > > > Currently I have a AthlonXP 1700 and ~500M of RAM. > > I think you'll have to try rather hard to stress that out -- under > normal use even windows should do fine :) > > I have a Celeron 800 MHz with 128 MB RAM, and that already works fine > except under rather extreme conditions. > > I do find however that heavy disk activity slows things down -- eg, X > freezes for a second or two if I'm doing "make clean" in a large port > with lots of dependencies, or untarring a very large file (like the > mozilla source). > > R > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- tcGB <>< Fi-Ji ><> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 16: 8:27 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC12637B401 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 16:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from xeon.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205DF43FBD for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 16:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: by xeon.unixathome.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3F1983F4A; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xeon.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E8F3F49; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:09:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:09:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@xeon.unixathome.org To: "Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I'm curious :-) In-Reply-To: <0HBG00FF8ETYU6@net.WAU.NL> Message-ID: <20030308190534.U64131@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <0HBG00FF8ETYU6@net.WAU.NL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Frans-Jan v. Steenbeek wrote: > I use a 486DX4 running at 133MHz with 32 Megs RAM. I'm using it with FreeBSD > right now to type my mail. I've tried several Linux-distro's on this > machine in the past and NONE of them worked as good as FreeBSD works now > (Vector-Linux came close...). Everything goes more or less smooth > (off-course I can't do too much regarding internet), no sudden > program-kills so far, no reboots required EVER. My first FreeBSD box was donated to me by a co-worker (Jay). It was used for my ADSL firewall (in Wellington, NZ). It ran my mail server, mailing list server, firewall, webserver (yes, FreshPorts and The FreeBSD Diary ran on it for a while), and file server. It has 16MB of RAM and was a 486 (speed forgotten, but is most likely recorded in the diary somewhere) and took 56 hours to run build world. But it ran, didn't die, and ran well. This was 2.2.8 and early 3.*. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 8 23: 5: 3 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F6837B405 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:04:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF1C44189 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com (asmtp02-qfe3 [10.13.10.66]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h294PZx9016365 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mac.com ([68.39.203.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HBGSAN00.46J for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:25:35 -0800 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:25:42 -0500 Subject: Re: FYI: SCO Group Slaps IBM with $1B Suit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: Larry Sica To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3E68EE65.56BF740D@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <3093AC0A-51E7-11D7-A9E3-000393A335A2@mac.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 02:09 PM, Terry Lambert wrote: > IBM has 5 patents they belive SQUID infringes; that why we were > not allowed to ship SQUID on the InterJet II, due to the GPL > giving away licensing for that patent. It's also why there is > no "IBM Linux", and they always partner with a Linux company to > provide Linux for their machines, when they sell a Linux-based > solution. If SQUID or Linux ever became a threat in the hands > of a commercial competitor, they could crush them like a bug. > I didn't know about this. I understand their fear of the GPL infection thing though. This is partly why i prefer a BSDL style license myself. Good thing that patents aren't like trademarks in the enforcement aspect where you have to defend it or lose it. But this comes down to a question, have the squid people tried to settle possible patent issues with IBM? > I have a real love/hate relationship with IBM over tactics like > this: they are incredibly smart about some things, but incredibly > dumb about others. > They are like most companies, but bigger. IBM overall, at least now, seems to be not so bad to deal with at least. --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message