From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 02:27:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249F237B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5E243F3F for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:27:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@welearn.com.au) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6R9RkiS059731; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:27:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h6R9Ri8s059730; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:27:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:27:44 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Lowell Gilbert Message-ID: <20030727192744.A5069@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , Lowell Gilbert , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Peter Rosa References: <004501c3521d$e8532c40$3501a8c0@pro.sk> <44brvjhdl4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <44brvjhdl4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org>;at 04:30:47PM -0400 X-PGP-Fingerprint: E9A3 7B97 C563 DBB1 979E BC04 D2A2 9DA3 1274 7885 cc: Peter Rosa cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Defragment HDD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:27:57 -0000 On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 04:30:47PM -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > "Peter Rosa" writes: > > > OK, but it is not the "real defragmenting" like Norton Speedisk > > or MS Defrag on windoze machines. > > Is there anything other ? > > The term doesn't typically refer to quite the same thing on Unix. No > defragmentation program of that type is needed, due to different filesystem > internals. See the old (but still useful) /usr/share/doc/smm/05.fastfs > for a bit of a better introduction. You'd be surprised how common this defrag request is... and how useful those old docs can be. Recently I had the head of IT and the VMS administrator standing over me and demanding that I defrag the unix servers routinely once a month, like the VMS guy always does and the Microsoft guy had agreed to. They'd gone into a dramatically serious little whisperfest before they marched over and started throwing accusations and demands, refusing any response that sounded like "but". Oh they were quite serious, believing that Microsoft and VMS need it therefore every filesystem does, and they wouldn't accept that it is unnecessary for unix, no matter what I told them, nor could they explain to me why the venerable VMS had such a lousy filesystem that in this day and age it still falls over its feet whenever it gets fragmented which is often. They were convinced that I just didn't care about defragmentation or know the right tools to use, and no amount of reason would shake that. I was, of course, unable to comply with the manager's parting directive and said so. While waiting for advice that the room had been booked for my pending disciplinary interview, I emailed the abovementioned fastfs doc to the guys concerned, offered to accept an equivalent doc for VMS, and asked them to explain to me again what "defragging" does when they know how the unix filesystem works. I have not heard a peep from the manager since, and not a soul has mentioned filesystems within my earshot again :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 04:56:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C81237B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [64.8.50.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D5F43F93 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta7.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030727115619.HRSG13110.mta7.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 07:56:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3F23BDE3.6070101@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 07:56:19 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake References: <004501c3521d$e8532c40$3501a8c0@pro.sk> <44brvjhdl4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20030727192744.A5069@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030727192744.A5069@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Defragment HDD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:56:21 -0000 Sue Blake wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 04:30:47PM -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > >>"Peter Rosa" writes: >> >>>OK, but it is not the "real defragmenting" like Norton Speedisk >>>or MS Defrag on windoze machines. >>>Is there anything other ? >> >>The term doesn't typically refer to quite the same thing on Unix. No >>defragmentation program of that type is needed, due to different filesystem >>internals. See the old (but still useful) /usr/share/doc/smm/05.fastfs >>for a bit of a better introduction. > > You'd be surprised how common this defrag request is... > and how useful those old docs can be. I wouldn't ... I've hit this question a few times and use the doc to explain it. > Recently I had the head of IT and the VMS administrator standing > over me and demanding that I defrag the unix servers routinely > once a month, like the VMS guy always does and the Microsoft guy > had agreed to. They'd gone into a dramatically serious little > whisperfest before they marched over and started throwing accusations > and demands, refusing any response that sounded like "but". See ... you handled this very differently that I did. I would have just said, "I already do defragment it regularly," and shown them the output during boot that shows the low level (usually less than 1%) of block fragmentation on the disks. If they don't know what that means or how it works, well ... that's why _I'm_ the FreeBSD admin and not them. I've occasionally used the explanation, "defrag is built in, it defrags each file _as_ it's saving it." It's a little oversimplified, but not completely incorrect. You can even show them the space/time settings you can change to "control the level of defragmentation." > Oh they were quite serious, believing that Microsoft and VMS need it > therefore every filesystem does, and they wouldn't accept that it is > unnecessary for unix, no matter what I told them, nor could they > explain to me why the venerable VMS had such a lousy filesystem that > in this day and age it still falls over its feet whenever it gets > fragmented which is often. They were convinced that I just didn't > care about defragmentation or know the right tools to use, and no > amount of reason would shake that. I was, of course, unable to comply > with the manager's parting directive and said so. Hehe ... I find it humorous that when you went to the trouble to try to educate them, they refused to be educated. > While waiting for advice that the room had been booked for my pending > disciplinary interview, I emailed the abovementioned fastfs doc to the > guys concerned, offered to accept an equivalent doc for VMS, and asked > them to explain to me again what "defragging" does when they know how the > unix filesystem works. I have not heard a peep from the manager since, > and not a soul has mentioned filesystems within my earshot again :-) Obviously, I can't be sure, but I suspect that they never brought it up again because they were unable to understand the document. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 10:07:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9153337B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from port995.com (port995.com [213.162.97.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B690C43F75 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:07:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sansan@cas.port995.com) Received: by port995.com (Port995 Mail, from userid 77) id 745591407541; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:08:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from cas.port995.com (Authenticated SMTP client) by port995.com (Port995 Mail) with ESMTP id E603F1407540; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:08:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3F2406AF.5080804@cas.port995.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:06:55 +0100 From: Santos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake References: <004501c3521d$e8532c40$3501a8c0@pro.sk> <44brvjhdl4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20030727192744.A5069@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030727192744.A5069@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Peter Rosa cc: Lowell Gilbert cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Defragment HDD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:07:02 -0000 Sue Blake wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 04:30:47PM -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > >>"Peter Rosa" writes: >> >> >>>OK, but it is not the "real defragmenting" like Norton Speedisk >>>or MS Defrag on windoze machines. >>>Is there anything other ? >> >>The term doesn't typically refer to quite the same thing on Unix. No >>defragmentation program of that type is needed, due to different filesystem >>internals. See the old (but still useful) /usr/share/doc/smm/05.fastfs >>for a bit of a better introduction. > > > > You'd be surprised how common this defrag request is... Read answer #8 on http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/05/1225249&mode=nested&tid=126&tid=185&tid=106&tid=163 I think the same aplies on filesystem fragmentation too. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 10:31:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50C837B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta2.adelphia.net (mta2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2AA43FB1 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta2.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030727173102.ZGAR15214.mta2.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:31:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3F240C56.3050800@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:31:02 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Santos References: <004501c3521d$e8532c40$3501a8c0@pro.sk> <44brvjhdl4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20030727192744.A5069@welearn.com.au> <3F2406AF.5080804@cas.port995.com> In-Reply-To: <3F2406AF.5080804@cas.port995.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Defragment HDD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:31:04 -0000 Santos wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 04:30:47PM -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote: >> >>> "Peter Rosa" writes: >>> >>>> OK, but it is not the "real defragmenting" like Norton Speedisk >>>> or MS Defrag on windoze machines. >>>> Is there anything other ? >>> >>> The term doesn't typically refer to quite the same thing on Unix. No >>> defragmentation program of that type is needed, due to different >>> filesystem >>> internals. See the old (but still useful) /usr/share/doc/smm/05.fastfs >>> for a bit of a better introduction. >> >> You'd be surprised how common this defrag request is... > > Read answer #8 on > http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/05/1225249&mode=nested&tid=126&tid=185&tid=106&tid=163 > I think the same aplies on filesystem fragmentation too. I concur. I once had a discussion like this: client: "Will this new server defrag automatically or will you have to come in to do it?" me: "No, FFS never gets fragmented?" client: "Then why does Microsoft have to be defragmented?" me: "Because they've foolishly discarded 30 years of filesystem research when they developed the NT filesystem." client: "Why would they do that?" me: "maybe they want to make additional money from selling defrag software? Maybe they just don't care enough about their customers to really do a good job?" client: "huh ..." This is a guy that I've had as a client for over 10 years. He trusts me implicitly or the conversation might have turned into an argument. Like Sue's story, he insists that I ensure all the workstations and servers are being defragged regularly, unlike Sue, this client trusted me when I told him how it really was with FreeBSD. But the point I wanted to make is that it hasn't achieved a damn thing. FreeBSD is just TOO good. The FreeBSD print server/firewall/mail server runs week after week with zero problems and allows them to do things that would cost thousands on a MS server. (it's been up 65 days right now, and the last time it was down was because the power went out longer than the UPS could keep it going) The Microsoft server is nothing but trouble (about every three or four months, the backup software will freak out and I'll have to reinstall it. I have no explanation for why this happens, I just know that if I reinstall it, things work smoothly for another three or four months) Because of this, they're constantly aware of the Windows server. But they often forget that the FreeBSD server is even there. I've watched over his shoulder ... when business gets slow he'll start up Diskeeper lite and sit and watch the little red blocks move around and turn into blue blocks. When it's all done, he'll start up some programs and click around muttering things like, "Yeah, that helped ... it's a little faster now ..." He's not the only one I've seen do things like this. Fact is, just like viruses, disk fragmentation is one of the few things that the average computer user actually thinks he understands. And since it seems technical, they feel like their entering the edges of the geek realm when they defrag their hard drives. It gives them some feeling that they actually have some control over their computers. Also, it's been _hammered_ into their heads how necessary it is to defrag hard drives. Anyone who has used a FAT or NTFS filesystem for any length of time without defragging and has seen the tremendous performance gain a defrag can cause is thinking, "I wonder if I need to defrag" any time the computer isn't fast enough. Partially because it's the only thing they know to do in such a circumstance. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 10:58:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB0E37B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [64.8.50.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D834543F93 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta7.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030727175830.CHYQ13110.mta7.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:58:30 -0400 Message-ID: <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:58:30 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:58:31 -0000 Since this is -chat ... I had this idea, and I'd be curious what some experts think about it. The basic concept is a printer that prints programs onto paper. Imagine taking an oridinary sheet of paper and printing a "document" on it. When it came out it had buttons and an LCD screen printed on it. The difference between what would come out of a normal printer is that when you pressed the buttons, the numbers appeared on the screen. (all on the paper) You could basically create a calculator by printing out a document. The overall approach is "interactive prited media". Imagine a sales brochure where you could press the paper to check/uncheck options and see the price update right on the paper. Sound crazy ... that's why I'm posting it. Here are the details of how _I_ feel it could work. I want to know if other people think it's possible. In addition to standard ink, the printer would have several special inks: a conductive (metallic?) ink, and several inks that change properties when electricity is applied (i.e. change from clear to red, clear to blue ...) Additionally, a pressure-sensitive ink that conducts electricity only when pressure is applied. Thus, it doesn't take a genious to imagine circuits, LCD-like screens, buttons, and possibly more complex circuit logic than simply on/off switches (inks with other properties to create things such as timers). The battery could either be wafer thin and embedded in the paper (you're using special paper) or (possibly) the chemicles that create a battery could be stored in ink form and the battery basically "printed" to the page. Complex, yes. But is it possible? Chemistry is NOT my thing, but I'm guessing that the technology to make such inks either exists, or could be developed. By making it do a multi-pass, conductive and non-conductive inks could be layered on top of each other, generating pretty complex circuits. Then the whole thing could be covered with standard ink to hide the circuitry. So. Am I the first to imagine such a thing? How close is the technology to actually doing it? What does everyone think about it? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 11:34:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B39237B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66EA343F93 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6RIYitS073253; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:34:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> References: <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:34:24 +0200 To: Bill Moran From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:34:50 -0000 At 1:58 PM -0400 2003/07/27, Bill Moran wrote: > So. Am I the first to imagine such a thing? How close is the > technology to actually doing it? What does everyone think about it? This sort of thing is already under development. They already have electronic displays on paper (they're already in use at stores like Wal-Mart as re-usable large sale display posters). They're working on printing more complex electronic circuits on the paper, so that it can be used as a re-usable newspaper (just get it recharged/reloaded at your local newsstand). The primary problem with them right now is slow response times of the displays (on the order of a few seconds for the display to update, much too slow for a computer display but fine for "static" signs or virtual newspapers). There are already other technologies in use that function as ink-jet printers for other types of "ink". Certainly, there are already 3-D manufacturing technologies using laser sintering or liquid polymer solidification that all you to "print" three dimensional objects. IIRC, the new Ford GT (re-make of the old Ford GT-40 from the 1960's) used this sort of technology extensively for their prototypes -- making new transmissions, u-joints, etc.... In short, this sort of stuff is already well under development. Check old issues of _Popular Science_, _Popular Mechanics_, _New Scientist_, _Scientific American_, _American Scientist_, etc.... -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 11:46:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB3937B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta1.adelphia.net (mta1.adelphia.net [64.8.50.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055D143FCB for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta1.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030727185319.YOAC489.mta1.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:53:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3F241E1E.2060904@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:46:54 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Knowles References: <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:46:56 -0000 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 1:58 PM -0400 2003/07/27, Bill Moran wrote: > >> So. Am I the first to imagine such a thing? How close is the >> technology to actually doing it? What does everyone think about it? > > This sort of thing is already under development. They already have > electronic displays on paper (they're already in use at stores like > Wal-Mart as re-usable large sale display posters). They're working on > printing more complex electronic circuits on the paper, so that it can > be used as a re-usable newspaper (just get it recharged/reloaded at your > local newsstand). Damn. I hadn't seen anything yet. Sometimes I just so behind the times! > The primary problem with them right now is slow response times of > the displays (on the order of a few seconds for the display to update, > much too slow for a computer display but fine for "static" signs or > virtual newspapers). Hmmm ... bummer ... But I assume this will improve with time and research ... > There are already other technologies in use that function as ink-jet > printers for other types of "ink". > > Certainly, there are already 3-D manufacturing technologies using > laser sintering or liquid polymer solidification that all you to "print" > three dimensional objects. IIRC, the new Ford GT (re-make of the old > Ford GT-40 from the 1960's) used this sort of technology extensively for > their prototypes -- making new transmissions, u-joints, etc.... I don't even consider these related technologies. These are simply newer forms of CNC. Only difference is that they add the material to the product instead of taking a block of material and machining the extra away. I don't see them being any more useful than traditional CNC machining practice either. I know a prototype shop that has been CNCing scale models out of foam for years. And I'm sure they weren't the first to do it. > In short, this sort of stuff is already well under development. > Check old issues of _Popular Science_, _Popular Mechanics_, _New > Scientist_, _Scientific American_, _American Scientist_, etc.... I guess I need to get some subscriptions ... So what's your guess on how long before we see these "rechargable newspapers"? 10 years? 20? C'mon ... let's place some bets! -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 12:27:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 911CC37B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044A443F85 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:27:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bitblocks.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RJRf2I036692; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200307271927.h6RJRf2I036692@bitblocks.com> To: Bill Moran In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:58:30 EDT." <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:27:41 -0700 From: Bakul Shah cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:27:42 -0000 > The overall approach is "interactive prited media". Imagine a sales > brochure where you could press the paper to check/uncheck options and > see the price update right on the paper. A number of display technologies already exist. Google for electronic ink or e-ink. Also look for electro-active ink, organic field-effect transistors (OFETs or OTFT), look for printed displays. Also OLEDs (organic LED) displays. Look for plastic electronics. Think dead-dinosaurs instead of dead-trees :-) Plastics are a lot more versatile than paper for such things. Many of these people are focussing on display applications so it'll be a while before we get to what Neal Stephenson talks about in "The Diamond Age" -- where a computer is sandwiched between display surfaces. > The battery could either be wafer thin and embedded in the paper (you're > using special paper) or (possibly) the chemicles that create a battery > could be stored in ink form and the battery basically "printed" to the > page. Yup. Print the battery too! And print solar cells on margins and other unused areas to charge it. > So. Am I the first to imagine such a thing? How close is the > technology to actually doing it? What does everyone think about it? Not the first. But don't let that bother you! Keep at it! Think of *where* you would use it if it were available. Keep an inventor's log book and have it notarized periodically. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 12:38:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FC037B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1172F43F3F for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:38:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6RJcQtS077760; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:38:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F241E1E.2060904@potentialtech.com> References: <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> <3F241E1E.2060904@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:34:40 +0200 To: Bill Moran From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Brad Knowles cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:38:30 -0000 At 2:46 PM -0400 2003/07/27, Bill Moran wrote: > But I assume this will improve with time and research ... Response times of e-ink are already improving. > I don't even consider these related technologies. These are simply newer > forms of CNC. Only difference is that they add the material to the product > instead of taking a block of material and machining the extra away. I > don't see them being any more useful than traditional CNC machining > practice either. I know a prototype shop that has been CNCing scale models > out of foam for years. And I'm sure they weren't the first to do it. I disagree. There are plenty of types of things that CNC is simply not capable of making, whereas the 3-D stereolithography systems can. Moreover, they can make fully functional products that are ready to drop into use, and not just wax or plastic models that can be used as prototypes to see if they will work, or from which molds are made and then actual usable castings made from the molds. > So what's your guess on how long before we see these "rechargable > newspapers"? 10 years? 20? C'mon ... let's place some bets! I'd be willing to guess that some high-end magazines might be ready to do things like this within five years. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 12:38:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780C437B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42C143F75 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6RJcQtU077760; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:38:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200307271927.h6RJRf2I036692@bitblocks.com> References: <200307271927.h6RJRf2I036692@bitblocks.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:37:43 +0200 To: Bakul Shah From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Bill Moran Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:38:39 -0000 At 12:27 PM -0700 2003/07/27, Bakul Shah wrote: > Many of these people are focussing on display applications so > it'll be a while before we get to what Neal Stephenson talks > about in "The Diamond Age" -- where a computer is sandwiched > between display surfaces. Already underway. IIRC, Sharp recently printed some electronic circuits for a simple CPU on top of an LCD. >> So. Am I the first to imagine such a thing? How close is the >> technology to actually doing it? What does everyone think about it? > > Not the first. But don't let that bother you! Keep at it! > Think of *where* you would use it if it were available. Keep > an inventor's log book and have it notarized periodically. Agreed. This can be way-cool stuff, and inventions like this are one of the only ways we geek-types can hope to be able to make serious money. It's not like we can ever get paid like doctors or lawyers, so we have to be inventors in a company and get rich on the IPO. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 13:05:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF5737B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta4.adelphia.net (mta4.adelphia.net [64.8.50.184]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7872B43FAF for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta4.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030727200518.HGVH29402.mta4.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:05:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3F24307D.8040404@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:05:17 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bakul Shah References: <200307271927.h6RJRf2I036692@bitblocks.com> In-Reply-To: <200307271927.h6RJRf2I036692@bitblocks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:05:19 -0000 Bakul Shah wrote: >>So. Am I the first to imagine such a thing? How close is the >>technology to actually doing it? What does everyone think about it? > > Not the first. But don't let that bother you! Keep at it! > Think of *where* you would use it if it were available. Keep > an inventor's log book and have it notarized periodically. Umm ... is there a reason for keeping a log book beyond being able to brag that "I thought of this 5 years before anyone else" and having proof? -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 13:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99E337B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaff.hhhr.ision.net (gaff.hhhr.ision.net [195.180.9.213]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC86043F3F for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ohoyer@gaff.hhhr.ision.net) Received: from gaff.hhhr.ision.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gaff.hhhr.ision.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RKuAfD067280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:56:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ohoyer@gaff.hhhr.ision.net) Received: from localhost (ohoyer@localhost)h6RKu5aW067277; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:56:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:56:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Olaf Hoyer To: Bill Moran In-Reply-To: <3F2412C6.8030907@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: <20030727224826.X67270-100000@gaff.hhhr.ision.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:56:06 -0000 On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Bill Moran wrote: > Since this is -chat ... > > I had this idea, and I'd be curious what some experts think about it. > > The basic concept is a printer that prints programs onto paper. Imagine > taking an oridinary sheet of paper and printing a "document" on it. When > it came out it had buttons and an LCD screen printed on it. The difference > between what would come out of a normal printer is that when you pressed > the buttons, the numbers appeared on the screen. (all on the paper) You > could basically create a calculator by printing out a document. > > The overall approach is "interactive prited media". Imagine a sales > brochure where you could press the paper to check/uncheck options and > see the price update right on the paper. > Hi! Well, german magazine c't published some time ago an article about a company or research project that just achieved something similar to that. Basically, the printer prints out electronic layout boards, like pcb boards (I don't know the exact terms in english, so forgive any technical incorrectness) So the project was about simplifying getting electronic low-voltage circuits to be done in quicker and more elegant fashion than traditional smd-soldering etc, so they invented some method in "printing" them. Well, it was some months ago, so digging around would be hard... www.heise.de/ct is the website of the mag... HTH Olaf -- Olaf Hoyer ohoyer@gaff.hhhr.ision.net Fuerchterliche Erlebniss geben zu raten, ob der, welcher sie erlebt, nicht etwas Fuerchterliches ist. (Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Boese) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 14:02:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B019E37B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (hardtime.linuxman.net [66.147.26.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 434C043FCB for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-156-170-189.jan.bellsouth.net [66.156.170.189]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FC01522E; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:02:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id A5EE720F22; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:02:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:02:26 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20030727210226.GT11494@over-yonder.net> References: <200307271927.h6RJRf2I036692@bitblocks.com> <3F24307D.8040404@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F24307D.8040404@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:02:32 -0000 On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 04:05:17PM -0400 I heard the voice of Bill Moran, and lo! it spake thus: > > Umm ... is there a reason for keeping a log book beyond being able > to brag that "I thought of this 5 years before anyone else" and having > proof? Is there any other reason for living? -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 14:25:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571F837B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E0E543F75 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bitblocks.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6RLPQ2I037230; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200307272125.h6RLPQ2I037230@bitblocks.com> To: Bill Moran In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:05:17 EDT." <3F24307D.8040404@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:25:25 -0700 From: Bakul Shah cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Nonsense discussion: dreaming up new technology X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:25:27 -0000 > Umm ... is there a reason for keeping a log book beyond being able > to brag that "I thought of this 5 years before anyone else" and having > proof? You need the log book to *protect* your new idea. When most of the ingredients of an invention (mainly, most of the underlying technologies) are in place, it is not uncommon for a number of people to simulteneously get the same idea and then race to realizing it. In such a case if a patent dispute arises, a detailed log book with dates showing when you first thought of an idea and how you implemented it can help in determining who "got there first". Witnessing or notarizing your entry is to help keep you honest. At least, that is how the system is supposed to work! But if you don't care to turn your ideas into reality you don't have to bother! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 19:52:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC96C37B404 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6087343F75 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:52:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 786EE526F7; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:22:28 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:22:28 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Message-ID: <20030728025228.GM45069@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="K0mDTbuGRobClnW5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: What does "enterprise" mean? (was: What does "enterpise" mean?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:52:33 -0000 --K0mDTbuGRobClnW5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Monday, 21 July 2003 at 12:17:31 -0700, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > What does Unix for the enterprise mean to you? Buzzwords. The Shorter Oxford English dictionary describes enterprise as: 1. A design of which the execution is attempted; a piece of work taken in hand; now only, a bold, arduous or dangerous undertaking. 2. Disposition to engage in undertakings of difficult, risk or danger; daring spirit. 3. Management. Take your choice :-) > This morning, on the SCO media teleconference which I participated in[1], > SCO's president (McBride) said "If all [misappropriated Unix source code] > was removed, Linux would have no enterprise use." > > Their "enterprise" definitions mainly cover multi-processor. For example, > they mentioned scaling to 32 processors. > > Does anyone use FreeBSD or NetBSD with many (over four) processors? > > Anyone use NetBSD or FreeBSD with 32 processors? More to the point, does *anybody* use SCO with more than 16 processors? I have a strong suspicion that it doesn't scale nearly as well as Linux. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --K0mDTbuGRobClnW5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/JI/sIubykFB6QiMRArtmAJ9sG9zLvPj5wR/1All9IVplbK9isQCeNcWh 2fxLjzNJAVGMWmsU3xxXNTk= =QW8D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --K0mDTbuGRobClnW5-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 23:46:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B85037B401 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5494A43F93 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:46:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@sremick.net) Message-ID: <20030728064653.97189.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.48.174.49] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:46:53 PDT X-RocketYMMF: siremick Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:46:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott I. Remick" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: New advocacy site X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: scott@sremick.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:46:53 -0000 Hello all... just getting the word out on a site I just started to help promote/support FreeBSD. It's aimed mostly at Vermonters but I'm not restricting it (hence, I stopped short of it being a VT FreeBSD UG) so feel free to stop by no matter where you're from. :) But if you're in Vermont, I'd love to hear from you! http://www.vtbsd.net/ Cheers! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 08:23:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED6D37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F9343F85 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:23:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from 2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com) Received: from vwinxp.sneakemail.com ([68.155.222.104]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.netESMTP <20030729152328.JGN6813.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@vwinxp.sneakemail.com> for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:23:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:59:00 -0400 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:23:31 -0000 Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted=20 specifically? This actually came with an attachment called UPDATE107.EXE=20 that was about 152 KB in size. -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- FROM: "MS Customer Assistance" TO: "MS Partner" <> SUBJECT: Network Security Pack. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"iULYxKKfFiPmu" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:38:56 -0400 Message-ID: X-UIDL: "6=3D!!/5j!!/#e!!]Wl!! Status: RO MS Partner this is the latest version of security update, the "July 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality of all previously released patches. System requirements Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP This update applies to Microsoft Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later Microsoft Outlook, version 8.00 and later Microsoft Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later Recommendation Customers should install the patch at the earliest= opportunity. How to install Run attached file. Click Yes on displayed dialog box. How to use You don't need to do anything after installing this item. Microsoft Product Support Services and Knowledge Base articles can be found on the Microsoft Technical=20 Support web site. For security-related information about Microsoft products, please visit the Microsoft Security Advisor web= =20 site, or=20 Contact=20 us. Please do not reply to this message. It was sent from an unmonitored e-mail address and we are unable to respond to any replies. Thank you for using Microsoft products. Best regards from MS Customer Assistance ---------- =A92003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. The names of the actual= =20 companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective= owners.=20 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 08:40:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9826A37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bastet.rfc822.net (bastet.rfc822.net [64.81.113.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5B643F93 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pde@bastet.rfc822.net) Received: by bastet.rfc822.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 346DC9F088; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:44:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:44:08 -0500 From: Pete Ehlke To: FreeBSD Chat Message-ID: <20030729154408.GA65990@rfc822.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:40:00 -0000 On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 07:59:00AM -0400, Chip Morton wrote: > Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted > specifically? This actually came with an attachment called UPDATE107.EXE > that was about 152 KB in size. > It's YA M$ virus. I get one of these every couple of days, usually sent to addresses I use to post to usenet and mailing lists. It's pretty clearly an Outlook virus of some sort, and it's been around for several months now. -Pete From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 08:52:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C1837B401 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [64.8.50.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A7443F85 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:52:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030729155202.BEIF17452.mta9.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:52:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3F269822.6060602@potentialtech.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:52:02 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:52:04 -0000 Chip Morton wrote: > Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted > specifically? This actually came with an attachment called > UPDATE107.EXE that was about 152 KB in size. This is a Windows trojan. I've been getting about one a week. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > FROM: "MS Customer Assistance" > TO: "MS Partner" <> > SUBJECT: Network Security Pack. > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="iULYxKKfFiPmu" > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:38:56 -0400 > Message-ID: > X-UIDL: "6=!!/5j!!/#e!!]Wl!! > Status: RO > > > MS Partner > > this is the latest version of security update, the > "July 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates > all known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, > Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly > discovered vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer > from these vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow > an attacker to run executable on your system. This update includes > the functionality of all previously released patches. > > System requirements Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP > This update applies to Microsoft Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later > Microsoft Outlook, version 8.00 and later > Microsoft Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later > Recommendation Customers should install the patch at the earliest > opportunity. > How to install Run attached file. Click Yes on displayed dialog box. > How to use You don't need to do anything after installing this item. > > Microsoft Product Support Services and Knowledge Base articles > can be found on the Microsoft Technical > Support web site. > For security-related information about Microsoft products, please > visit the Microsoft Security Advisor > web site, or > Contact > us. > > Please do not reply to this message. It was sent from an unmonitored > e-mail address and we are unable to respond to any replies. > > Thank you for using Microsoft products. > > Best regards from > MS Customer Assistance > > ---------- > ©2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. The names of the > actual companies > and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective > owners. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 09:11:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1DC37B404 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C53743F93 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:11:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfk39.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.208.105] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19hX4i-0005cl-00; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:11:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3F269C83.85CD2D39@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:10:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a44cad349d672ee4d66f1b342b0b8350623ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:11:49 -0000 Chip Morton wrote: > Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted > specifically? This actually came with an attachment called UPDATE107.EXE > that was about 152 KB in size. This is the second one I've seen. The ones I got came from the same charter.net. Occasionally, I have to call them up and complain that one of their machines has been "owned" and is being used to send out exploits, viruses, trojans, etc.; then they clean up their act for a little bit, get "owned" again, and start sending out yet more crap. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 11:11:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6DA37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.parperfeito.com.br (host-84.c8b96a.parperfeito.com.br [200.185.106.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6769543F75 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:11:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jfassad@parperfeito.com.br) Received: from joao (unknown [200.185.115.130]) by mail.parperfeito.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 245901A0011 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:11:35 -0300 (GMT+3) Message-ID: <005101c355fc$cccc5a90$0402a8c0@joao> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Assad?= To: "FreeBSD Chat" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:11:14 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:11:16 -0000 I got it too -- João Assad ParPerfeito Comunicação LTDA http://www.parperfeito.com.br/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Morton" <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> To: "FreeBSD Chat" Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:59 AM Subject: Microsoft Network Security Pack Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted specifically? This actually came with an attachment called UPDATE107.EXE that was about 152 KB in size. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- FROM: "MS Customer Assistance" TO: "MS Partner" <> SUBJECT: Network Security Pack. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="iULYxKKfFiPmu" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:38:56 -0400 Message-ID: X-UIDL: "6=!!/5j!!/#e!!]Wl!! Status: RO MS Partner this is the latest version of security update, the "July 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer, Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality of all previously released patches. System requirements Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP This update applies to Microsoft Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later Microsoft Outlook, version 8.00 and later Microsoft Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later Recommendation Customers should install the patch at the earliest opportunity. How to install Run attached file. Click Yes on displayed dialog box. How to use You don't need to do anything after installing this item. Microsoft Product Support Services and Knowledge Base articles can be found on the Microsoft Technical Support web site. For security-related information about Microsoft products, please visit the Microsoft Security Advisor web site, or Contact us. Please do not reply to this message. It was sent from an unmonitored e-mail address and we are unable to respond to any replies. Thank you for using Microsoft products. Best regards from MS Customer Assistance ---------- ©2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. The names of the actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners. _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 15:31:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E571C37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B538B43FAF for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 19hczr-0004QM-07; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:31:07 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h6TLi2lD016701 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:44:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6TLi2FU016700 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:44:02 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:44:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:31:11 -0000 Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> wrote: > Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted > specifically? This actually came with an attachment called UPDATE107.EXE > that was about 152 KB in size. I have received hundreds, nay thousands of those--or similar ones-- from *.vip.uk.com and probably from elsewhere, too. They make up a significant part in volume of the 915MB of junk e-mail I have collected so far this year. Presumably it's some sort of MS Windows worm. I can't reliably distinguish spam, worms, trojans, and the like. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 22:24:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3830A37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4E643FD7 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc09u.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.62] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19hjRj-0003Hd-00; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:24:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3F275643.6843C6D1@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:23:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rajappa Iyer References: <200307291724.h6THO4J20723@panix2.panix.com> <200307291759.h6THxAl29275@panix2.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4c7d33dae518e56ea2025c258e463e0b1548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Antoine Jacoutot cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Palm syncing over USB on FreeBSD, any hopes? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:24:24 -0000 Rajappa Iyer wrote: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/usb-bsd/message/1645 > > Is this an accurate statement? That my browser does not accept cookies? Why yes, yes it is. 8-) 8-). You would think that Yahoo would have people capable of programming hidden fields, or URL ID's, which are the correct waya to get around browsers not supporting cookies. I guess blind people don't "Yahoo", either, since this would not display in Lynx. 8^p. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 06:00:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF3537B408 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBFE43FA3 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from 2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com) Received: from vwinxp.sneakemail.com ([68.155.222.104]) by imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.netESMTP <20030730130016.RTOZ23972.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@vwinxp.sneakemail.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:00:16 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:00:03 -0400 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> In-Reply-To: <3F269822.6060602@potentialtech.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:00:21 -0000 Well, I'm glad that I finally got invited to this semi-exclusive club. I guess I should start thinking about security issues now... At 11:52 AM 7/29/2003, Bill Moran wrote: >Chip Morton wrote: >>Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted >>specifically? This actually came with an attachment called UPDATE107.EXE >>that was about 152 KB in size. > >This is a Windows trojan. I've been getting about one a week. > > >-- >Bill Moran >Potential Technologies >http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 06:09:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D436937B401 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta4.adelphia.net (mta4.adelphia.net [64.8.50.184]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D961D43FAF for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta4.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030730130912.JFCF390.mta4.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:09:12 -0400 Message-ID: <3F27C377.7070100@potentialtech.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:09:11 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:09:14 -0000 Chip Morton wrote: > Well, I'm glad that I finally got invited to this semi-exclusive club. > I guess I should start thinking about security issues now... "semi-exclusive club"? You mean the one where we all get junk mail that isn't even targeted at us (such as Windows trojans, that don't even do anything exciting on FreeBSD, or viagra adverts, which address the wrong problem (I need a _date_ not a bigger ****)) Well, it's not a very fun club. We mostly just bitch about being members. Welcome, nonetheless. > At 11:52 AM 7/29/2003, Bill Moran wrote: > >> Chip Morton wrote: >> >>> Did anybody else get an e-mail message like this, or was I targeted >>> specifically? This actually came with an attachment called >>> UPDATE107.EXE that was about 152 KB in size. >> >> >> This is a Windows trojan. I've been getting about one a week. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 10:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E85937B401 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF5643FA3 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from 2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com) Received: from vwinxp.sneakemail.com ([68.155.222.104]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.netESMTP <20030730172608.HXAV19337.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@vwinxp.sneakemail.com> for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:26:08 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730091224.01a28378@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:21:31 -0400 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> In-Reply-To: <3F27C377.7070100@potentialtech.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030729075531.0196fa08@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:26:13 -0000 Sorry about that. I guess I should have used my meta-tags. ;-) But joking aside, some of this stuff does concern me. I do run Windows. * hanging head in shame, sobbing into hands... * At 09:09 AM 7/30/2003, Bill Moran wrote: >Chip Morton wrote: >>Well, I'm glad that I finally got invited to this semi-exclusive club. >>I guess I should start thinking about security issues now... > >"semi-exclusive club"? > >You mean the one where we all get junk mail that isn't even targeted at >us (such as Windows trojans, that don't even do anything exciting on >FreeBSD, or viagra adverts, which address the wrong problem (I need a >_date_ not a bigger ****)) > >Well, it's not a very fun club. We mostly just bitch about being >members. Welcome, nonetheless. > >-- >Bill Moran >Potential Technologies >http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 14:12:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECA137B401 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunderbridge.de (thunderbridge.de [65.39.221.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29A1B43F3F for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nils@thunderbridge.de) Received: (qmail 90657 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2003 21:12:15 -0000 Received: from dialin-pool2-61.wobline.de (HELO jasmina.thunderbridge.de) (postmaster@tisys.org@62.176.227.61) by thunderbridge.de with SMTP; 30 Jul 2003 21:12:15 -0000 Received: from jasmina.thunderbridge.de (jasmina.thunderbridge.de [192.168.0.1]) by jasmina.thunderbridge.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB2649C; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:12:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Nils Holland Organization: Thunderbridge Publishing To: Chip Morton <2m5mefx02@sneakemail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:12:09 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030730091224.01a28378@threespace.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730091224.01a28378@threespace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307302312.09479.nils@thunderbridge.de> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:12:31 -0000 On Wednesday 30 July 2003 15:21, Chip Morton wrote: > Sorry about that. I guess I should have used my meta-tags. ;-) > > But joking aside, some of this stuff does concern me. I do run Windows. > * hanging head in shame, sobbing into hands... * With an "intelligent" strategy right on the mailserver (if you operate it) and some good and current anti-virus software on the Windows box, this should not be a problem. If you are using Microsoft's eMail clients, some additional caution is probably appropriate - at least you should always watch out for the latest of their "real" security fixes. But actually, if I were using Windows (I'm not), I'd probably use Pegasus Mail, since that's about the only sane eMail client I've seen there. ;-) Bye, Nils --> NEU: Das Thunderbridge Forum: http://forum.thunderbridge.de :NEU <-- -- "I painted all your pigeons red - I wish I had stayed home instead" FreeBSD jasmina.thunderbridge.de 4.8-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE #7: Mon Jun 9 21:01:40 CEST 2003 root@gaffa.thunderbridge.de:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/JAZZY i386 11:09PM up 7:57, 1 user, load averages: 0.13, 0.13, 0.13 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 14:39:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD78E37B404 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C6343F85 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from calvin8@t-online.de) Received: from fwd06.aul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 19hyfR-0006ic-08; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:39:29 +0200 Received: from FIREBIRD (XLRTmrZOQeLX+qxGU1mENVSyg2AH86yL6AiqABOAvInn6nsb19x5Z+@[80.130.239.30]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 19hyfN-2EsFO40; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:39:25 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:40:05 +0200 From: calvin8@t-online.de (Andi Scharfstein) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.61) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <44530940421.20030730234005@t-online.de> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200307302312.09479.nils@thunderbridge.de> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030730091224.01a28378@threespace.com> <200307302312.09479.nils@thunderbridge.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: XLRTmrZOQeLX+qxGU1mENVSyg2AH86yL6AiqABOAvInn6nsb19x5Z+ Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:39:32 -0000 Hi, > If you are using Microsoft's eMail clients, some additional caution is > probably appropriate - at least you should always watch out for the latest of > their "real" security fixes. But actually, if I were using Windows (I'm not), > I'd probably use Pegasus Mail, since that's about the only sane eMail client > I've seen there. ;-) Well, have you seen "The Bat!"? It's astonishingly good :) I agree on the first part, though. Outlook is *dangerous*. -- Bye: Andi S. mailto:nullpointer@myrealbox.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 15:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF11637B401 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kyblik.pieskovisko.sk (kyblik.pieskovisko.sk [213.215.72.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7851B43F3F for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frankie-freebsd@7f000001.org) Received: (qmail 21088 invoked by uid 19508); 30 Jul 2003 22:03:37 -0000 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:03:37 +0200 From: frankie-freebsd@7f000001.org To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030730220337.GI19303@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030730085801.01a9e5b8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030730091224.01a28378@threespace.com> <200307302312.09479.nils@thunderbridge.de> <44530940421.20030730234005@t-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="R6sEYoIZpp9JErk7" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44530940421.20030730234005@t-online.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: Microsoft Network Security Pack X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:03:41 -0000 --R6sEYoIZpp9JErk7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 11:40:05PM +0200, Andi Scharfstein wrote: > Hi, >=20 > > If you are using Microsoft's eMail clients, some additional caution is= =20 > > probably appropriate - at least you should always watch out for the lat= est of=20 > > their "real" security fixes. But actually, if I were using Windows (I'm= not),=20 > > I'd probably use Pegasus Mail, since that's about the only sane eMail c= lient=20 > > I've seen there. ;-) >=20 > Well, have you seen "The Bat!"? It's astonishingly good :) I agree on > the first part, though. Outlook is *dangerous*. mutt runs on win32, too. And, as we all know, while all mail clients suck, mutt sucks less. m&f --=20 What do you care what other people think? --R6sEYoIZpp9JErk7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQE/KEC54PY2BaN84VwRAgmCAJdDdLF7eZe0q7iCxtRuF1wuJzNFAJ4iE4q0 FsaTd3FgH0YugtwQ7f6G5A== =/gZP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --R6sEYoIZpp9JErk7-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:55:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB77A37B496 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunderbridge.de (thunderbridge.de [65.39.221.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA95743F85 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nils@tisys.org) Received: (qmail 27829 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2003 17:54:55 -0000 Received: from dialin-pool1-196.wobline.de (HELO jasmina.thunderbridge.de) (postmaster@tisys.org@62.176.226.196) by thunderbridge.de with SMTP; 31 Jul 2003 17:54:55 -0000 Received: from jasmina.thunderbridge.de (jasmina.thunderbridge.de [192.168.0.1]) by jasmina.thunderbridge.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FEE22C2 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:55:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Nils Holland Organization: Ti Systems Communications To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:55:06 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307311955.06902.nils@tisys.org> Subject: Local CVSup server doing funny things X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:55:14 -0000 Hi folks, it took me a long time to make up my mind if this belongs on -questions or -chat, but since it's not "strictly" about the FreeBSD OS itself, I thought I'd better post it here. Basically, my local CVSup mirror server has started doing ... well, strange things. It used to work when I used it the last time (might have been half a year ago), but today it totally confused me. The issue: I'm mirroring the FreeBSD CVS via cvsup. Updates are done daily from cron, using the following supfile: *default host=cvsup6.de.freebsd.org *default prefix=/home/cvs/cvs-all *default base=/home/cvs/cvsup *default release=cvs delete use-rel-suffix compress src-all ports-all doc-all distrib release=self I just ran a manual update and it worked fine. Now, first of all, let's have a look at what my *local* cvsweb says about the current version of the file /etc/periodic/daily/100.clean-disks in RELENG_4. I've put a screenshot of it here: http://www.tisys.org/misc/cvsweb.png. It says the same as the "official" cvsweb at FreeBSD.org, namely: 1.3.2.6 is the current version. Now I check out a *fresh* copy of src-all from my mirror server, using the following supfile on the client machine: *default host=jasmina.thunderbridge.de *default base=/usr *default prefix=/usr *default release=cvs tag=RELENG_4 *default delete use-rel-suffix src-all And if I now look at usr/src/etc/periodic/daily/100.clean-disks on the client machine, I see this: # $FreeBSD: src/etc/periodic/daily/100.clean-disks,v 1.3.2.5 2001/01/07 01:09:21 brian Exp $ Hmm. I would probably have liked to get the version that - according to the cvsweb which accesses the same repository as my cvsupd process - I *should* have gotten. And the clean-disks file is just an example, other files are also "one revision behind". Now I'm really wondering what's going on here. Probably my configuration is messed up, but it used to work. I'll now go and cvsup several older releases as well as -CURRENT from my local mirror and see if similar problems occur. However, after reading this, does somebody have a clue what may be wrong here? By the way, concerning cvsup(d), what I'm using is: Software version: SNAP_16_1h Protocol version: 17.0 Operating system: FreeBSD4 Bye, Nils --> NEU: Das Thunderbridge Forum: http://forum.thunderbridge.de :NEU <-- -- "I painted all your pigeons red - I wish I had stayed home instead" FreeBSD jasmina.thunderbridge.de 4.8-STABLE FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE #0: Thu Jul 31 18:08:14 CEST 2003 root@jasmina.thunderbridge.de:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/JAZZY i386 7:34PM up 1:09, 4 users, load averages: 0.56, 0.49, 0.36 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 11:31:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB04737B401 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunderbridge.de (thunderbridge.de [65.39.221.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1957E43F3F for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nils@tisys.org) Received: (qmail 29200 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2003 18:31:13 -0000 Received: from dialin-pool1-196.wobline.de (HELO jasmina.thunderbridge.de) (postmaster@tisys.org@62.176.226.196) by thunderbridge.de with SMTP; 31 Jul 2003 18:31:13 -0000 Received: from jasmina.thunderbridge.de (jasmina.thunderbridge.de [192.168.0.1]) by jasmina.thunderbridge.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4723A5B; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:31:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Nils Holland Organization: Ti Systems Communications To: Nils Holland Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:31:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <200307311955.06902.nils@tisys.org> In-Reply-To: <200307311955.06902.nils@tisys.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307312031.25642.nils@tisys.org> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Local CVSup server doing funny things X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:31:31 -0000 On Thursday 31 July 2003 19:55, Nils Holland wrote: > And if I now look at usr/src/etc/periodic/daily/100.clean-disks on the > client machine, I see this: > > # $FreeBSD: src/etc/periodic/daily/100.clean-disks,v 1.3.2.5 2001/01/07 > 01:09:21 brian Exp $ Oops, just ignore all of this. Seems like I'm talking trash today. What I got *is* the latest file, with the strange exception that the above line is "outdated", the remainder of the source code *is* the expected version. Seems like my mind is a little "handicapped" today. ;-) Bye, Nils --> NEU: Das Thunderbridge Forum: http://forum.thunderbridge.de :NEU <-- -- "I painted all your pigeons red - I wish I had stayed home instead" FreeBSD jasmina.thunderbridge.de 4.8-STABLE FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE #0: Thu Jul 31 18:08:14 CEST 2003 root@jasmina.thunderbridge.de:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/JAZZY i386 8:29PM up 2:04, 3 users, load averages: 0.57, 0.82, 0.64 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 19:31:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5D237B401 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DBD43FA3 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 19iPhC-000216-00; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 04:31:06 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h712D9lD073559 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 04:13:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h712D99W073558 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 04:13:09 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 02:13:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <200307311955.06902.nils@tisys.org> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Local CVSup server doing funny things X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 02:31:11 -0000 Nils Holland wrote: > The issue: I'm mirroring the FreeBSD CVS via cvsup. Updates are done daily > from cron, using the following supfile: > [...] > src-all > ports-all > doc-all No. You want to replace these with cvs-all. The FreeBSD repository has been reorganized and the above collections do not cover CVSROOT any longer. Strictly speaking, if you want to omit parts like the projects module (which is also conspicuously absent above) you can cobble your own subset together, but if you want to simply mirror the complete repository just use cvs-all. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 07:56:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDA037B401 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 07:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunderbridge.de (thunderbridge.de [65.39.221.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B45A43FDD for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 07:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nils@thunderbridge.de) Received: (qmail 67195 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2003 14:56:19 -0000 Received: from dialin-pool2-29.wobline.de (HELO jasmina.thunderbridge.de) (postmaster@tisys.org@62.176.227.29) by thunderbridge.de with SMTP; 1 Aug 2003 14:56:19 -0000 Received: from jasmina.thunderbridge.de (jasmina.thunderbridge.de [192.168.0.1]) by jasmina.thunderbridge.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848DE31; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:56:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Nils Holland Organization: Thunderbridge Publishing To: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:56:03 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <200307311955.06902.nils@tisys.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200308011656.03247.nils@thunderbridge.de> Subject: Re: Local CVSup server doing funny things X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:56:42 -0000 On Friday 01 August 2003 04:13, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > No. You want to replace these with cvs-all. The FreeBSD repository > has been reorganized and the above collections do not cover CVSROOT > any longer. Well, does *this* explain why most of the files I checked out from my mirror recently started to siply contain $FreeBSD$ as the header instead of "resolving" this to something like: $FreeBSD: src/etc/periodic/daily/100.clean-disks,v 1.3.2.5 2001/01/07 01:09:21 brian Exp $ Anyway, I've changed this now. Thanks for the tip. ;-) Bye, Nils --> NEU: Das Thunderbridge Forum: http://forum.thunderbridge.de :NEU <-- -- "I painted all your pigeons red - I wish I had stayed home instead" FreeBSD jasmina.thunderbridge.de 4.8-STABLE FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE #0: Thu Jul 31 21:41:51 CEST 2003 root@jasmina.thunderbridge.de:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/JAZZY i386 4:54PM up 19:05, 2 users, load averages: 0.76, 0.31, 0.14 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 09:32:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D7D37B404 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D999A43FAF for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 19icoT-0006fZ-0G; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:31:29 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h71G9BlD009944 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:09:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h71G9ADQ009943 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:09:10 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:09:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <200307311955.06902.nils@tisys.org> <200308011656.03247.nils@thunderbridge.de> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Local CVSup server doing funny things X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:32:44 -0000 Nils Holland wrote: > > No. You want to replace these with cvs-all. The FreeBSD repository > > has been reorganized and the above collections do not cover CVSROOT > > any longer. > > Well, does *this* explain why most of the files I checked out from my mirror > recently started to siply contain $FreeBSD$ as the header instead of > "resolving" this to something like: Yes. Some files under CVSROOT also govern custom keyword expansion. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 18:00:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F6E737B401 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D78543F75 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cnst@rbcmail.ru) Received: from user14.net550.nc.sprint-hsd.net ([65.40.235.14] helo=rbcmail.ru) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19j7Ed-000178-00; Sat, 02 Aug 2003 18:00:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3F2C5E8F.6010908@rbcmail.ru> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 20:59:59 -0400 From: Constantine User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, ru, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: hostname on LAN with WAN X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:00:33 -0000 Hello! I am using my FreeBSD 4.8 in a local network, I do not have any routable IPs assigned to the box, so what am I supposed to use as a hostname for that FreeBSD box? I have an internet connection (DSL modem with NAT), and I am using the sendmail on the box, and the problem I have, is that during the boot time I need to wait 2 minutes for the DNS-timeout. I wanted to ask, how the hostname is meant to be set in my case. Cheers, Constantine. maillog: Aug 1 14:52:57 cnst sm-msp-queue[101]: My unqualified host name (cnst) unknown; sleeping for retry Aug 1 14:53:57 cnst sm-msp-queue[101]: unable to qualify my own domain name (cnst) -- using short name Aug 1 14:53:57 cnst sm-msp-queue[103]: starting daemon (8.12.8p1): queueing@00:30:00 Aug 2 14:41:22 cnst sm-mta[99]: My unqualified host name (cnst) unknown; sleeping for retry Aug 2 14:42:22 cnst sm-mta[99]: unable to qualify my own domain name (cnst) -- using short name Aug 2 14:42:22 cnst sm-mta[100]: starting daemon (8.12.8p1): SMTP+queueing@00:30:00 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 18:17:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B20B937B401 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chen.org.nz (chen.org.nz [210.54.19.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68CD43F93 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonc@chen.org.nz) Received: from grimoire.chen.org.nz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chen.org.nz (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h731H7pI073603; Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:17:07 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jonc@grimoire.chen.org.nz) Received: (from jonc@localhost) by grimoire.chen.org.nz (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h731H6LL073602; Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:17:06 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from jonc) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:17:06 +1200 From: Jonathan Chen To: Constantine Message-ID: <20030803011706.GA73580@grimoire.chen.org.nz> References: <3F2C5E8F.6010908@rbcmail.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F2C5E8F.6010908@rbcmail.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hostname on LAN with WAN X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:17:12 -0000 On Sat, Aug 02, 2003 at 08:59:59PM -0400, Constantine wrote: > Hello! > > I am using my FreeBSD 4.8 in a local network, I do not have any routable > IPs assigned to the box, so what am I supposed to use as a hostname for > that FreeBSD box? Put in in /etc/hosts, as an alias for localhost. -- Jonathan Chen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Opportunity does not knock, it presents itself when you beat down the door" - W.E. Channing From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 22:21:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DEC37B401 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seven.Alameda.net (seven.alameda.net [64.81.53.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D7E43FD7 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Alameda.net) Received: by seven.Alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5DF183A201; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:21:10 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030802222110.Y863@seven.alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE Subject: Looking for suggestions X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 05:21:11 -0000 Hello, I have for tomorrow a machine to play with: Supermicro Mobo 2x P4-2.4GHz Xeon 533MHz FSB 2GB PC2100 memory LSI Logic MegaRaid SATA-6 with 6 80GB Seagate drives 8mb cache. The drives are setup as a raid 5 (5 drives, one is hotspare). Strip size is set to 64KB, rest of controller is in default mode. I am trying to come up with a way to stress this and get some numbers as I would like to compare it against like a 5x36GB 10K RPM U320 raid. It is relatively cheap for the extra space it gives. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html