From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 30 03:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DA516A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306FD43F85 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 03:30:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-212-160-7.jan.bellsouth.net [68.212.160.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A521521C; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:30:21 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id BEE7F20F2A; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:30:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:30:18 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: bri an Message-ID: <20031130113018.GR12248@over-yonder.net> References: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Linux users X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:30:26 -0000 On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 03:25:37PM -0800 I heard the voice of bri an, and lo! it spake thus: > I am a Work-study at a University. I have allot of > staff using Redhat. I have been working on helping > people move to Freebsd. I have been using it for a two > months. I would love to help in anyway. I am not very > versed in Freebsd, But I know how to RTFM. I can be a > great tester to see what the document needs. Interestingly, I've just been (on and off, in between all that stupid Real Work stuff that interferes) writing something along those lines. Though, it's aimed more at describing some of the underlying philosophical differences, on the theory that once you "get" those, the rest will fall into place easily. In particular, it seems that the whole differentiation between a "base system" and "addon packages" just completely evades Linux users (not surprising, since no such thing exists in the Linux world). -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 30 05:50:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE7AE16A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75C243FE3 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:50:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAUDoKFY065392 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:50:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hAUDoKB2065391; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:50:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:50:20 -0800 (PST) Resent-Message-Id: <200311301350.hAUDoKB2065391@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Eugene Grosbein Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E2116A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from grosbein.pp.ru (dadv.svzserv.kemerovo.su [213.184.64.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E0543F75 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:42:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.pp.ru) Received: from grosbein.pp.ru (eugen@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grosbein.pp.ru (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hARFFe78005406 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:15:41 +0700 (KRAT) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.pp.ru) Received: (from eugen@localhost) by grosbein.pp.ru (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hARFFe2J005405; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:15:40 +0700 (KRAT) (envelope-from eugen) Message-Id: <200311271515.hARFFe2J005405@grosbein.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:15:40 +0700 (KRAT) From: Eugene Grosbein To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/59835: ipfw(8) man page does not warn about accepted but meaningless rules X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eugene Grosbein List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:50:23 -0000 >Number: 59835 >Category: docs >Synopsis: ipfw(8) man page does not warn about accepted but meaningless rules >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Nov 30 05:50:20 PST 2003 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Eugene Grosbein >Release: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE i386 >Organization: Svyaz Service JSC >Environment: System: FreeBSD grosbein.pp.ru 4.9-STABLE FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE #2: Tue Nov 25 23:13:47 KRAT 2003 eu@grosbein.pp.ru:/usr/local/obj/usr/local/src/sys/DADV i386 IPFW2 >Description: ipfw2 accepts rules like this: divert 10000 ip from any to any via fxp0 MAC 00:90:27:a7:5c:72 any But this rules will never match a packet. And ipfw(8) man page mentiones this nowhere. Yes, it says something: /* quote start */ Note that as packets flow through the stack, headers can be stripped or added to it, and so they may or may not be available for inspection. E.g., incoming packets will include the MAC header when ipfw is invoked from ether_demux(), but the same packets will have the MAC header stripped off when ipfw is invoked from ip_input(). Also note that each packet is always checked against the complete rule- set, irrespective of the place where the check occurs, or the source of the packet. If a rule contains some match patterns or actions which are not valid for the place of invocation (e.g. trying to match a MAC header within ip_input() ), the match pattern will not match, but a not operator in front of such patterns will cause the pattern to always match on those packets. /* quote stop */ However, man page does not say that divertion will occur when ipfw is invoked from ip_input(). >How-To-Repeat: See description. I needed to count and divert unicast-only packets to an application, tried to use mentioned rule and failed. I'm forced to rewrite it as a set of three rules (count, skip broadcast and divert) but it took some time to understand what's going wrong. >Fix: Correct ipfw(8) man page. It should clearly state that divert can never be used with layer2 packets. Eugene Grosbein >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 30 19:11:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A5B16A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net (sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net [65.242.152.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68F243FAF for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:11:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jpb@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net) Received: by sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B90DFA6C0; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:11:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:11:33 -0500 From: Jim Brown To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031201031133.GA46564@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org References: <20031126083513.K43866-100000@dot.nth-order.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031126083513.K43866-100000@dot.nth-order.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Wifi IPsec Freebsd Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 03:11:35 -0000 * Timothy Ham [2003-11-26 11:42]: > Hello, > > I have written a step by step guide to setting up a secure wifi > connection using IPsec between a FreeBSD gateway and a Windows laptop. > I sent it out to the -questions mailing list, and someone suggested that I > should submit it to the -doc team. > > The guide can be found here for review: > http://sahara.lbl.gov/~tham/wifi-ipsec.txt > > I would welcome any feedback. > > Thanks, > T > Hi Tim, I read your guide at http://sahara.lbl.gov/~tham/wifi-ipsec.txt. Your guide is a good start towards a new handbook section on setting up an IPSec VPN access point as you describe. In fact, it might fit well with http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ipsec.html as a "Scenario #2" (which doesn't yet exist). Hiten Pandya wrote the "Scenario #1" in that section and may be open to incorporating your text as another scenario. To move this along, I've reworked your text into the slightly more formal style preferred for article and handbook submissions. The revised text is available at: http://sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net/wifi/tham.txt Please check the revised text for technical accuracy in case I messed up something. I don't have a wireless access point to check it myself. If it's accurate, let me know and I'll mark it up and repost a link. Best Regards, jpb === From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 00:18:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC18E16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE69043FAF; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id D1B952ED464; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:18:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:18:09 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: doc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031201081809.GE75620@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: HOWTO: install without floppy, cdrom, or pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:18:10 -0000 I have a mini-HOWTO here that possibly be automated. Basically we're going to install FreeBSD over FreeBSD without a floppy, cdrom or pxe. This depends on a loader that's compatible with your kernel so if really weird lockups happen, you might not be compatible. Anyhow, here we go: Download the boot.flp from the release you want to install. Mount it like so: mdconfig -a -t vnode -f boot.flp # should output something like 'md0' mkdir -p /mnt mount /dev/md0 /mnt Copy the yummy bits from the install image to your root: cp /mnt/kernel.gz /ikernel.gz cp /mnt/mfsroot.gz /mfsroot.gz Now reboot and interrupt the loader when it counts down the boot. Then type these commands into the loader: unload kernel load /ikernel load -t mfs_root /mfsroot set vfs.root.mountfrom boot Now cross your fingers once you wipe the partitions out to reinstall... It would be cool if this could be automated[1], perhaps by setting the boot partition to the swap partition and setting it up temporarily as a ufs filesystem and then... oh... well... [1] http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1426.html -- - Alfred Perlstein - Research Engineering Development Inc. - email: bright@mu.org cell: 408-480-4684 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 00:27:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43C716A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154E643FDD for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:27:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.162] helo=localhost) by tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQjP5-00059r-Da for doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:27:35 +0000 Received: from rx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.161]) by localhost (scan0.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 19647-03 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:27:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQjP5-00059m-0A for doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:27:35 +0000 Received: (qmail 30103 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2003 08:27:34 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.370403 secs); 01 Dec 2003 08:27:34 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.370403 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 1 Dec 2003 08:27:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031201082352.03243760@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:27:30 +0000 To: Alfred Perlstein , doc@freebsd.org From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <20031201081809.GE75620@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HOWTO: install without floppy, cdrom, or pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:27:41 -0000 At 00:18 01/12/2003 -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >Then type these commands into the loader: >unload kernel >load /ikernel >load -t mfs_root /mfsroot >set vfs.root.mountfrom >boot ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Surely that should be vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:/dev/md0c" ? It should also be possible to put the above into /boot/loader.rc. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 00:30:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6FF16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B496C43FE3; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id AAA532ED44A; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:30:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:30:25 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20031201083025.GF75620@elvis.mu.org> References: <20031201081809.GE75620@elvis.mu.org> <5.0.2.1.1.20031201082352.03243760@popserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031201082352.03243760@popserver.sfu.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HOWTO: install without floppy, cdrom, or pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:30:26 -0000 * Colin Percival [031201 00:27] wrote: > At 00:18 01/12/2003 -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >Then type these commands into the loader: > >unload kernel > >load /ikernel > >load -t mfs_root /mfsroot > >set vfs.root.mountfrom > >boot ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Surely that should be vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:/dev/md0c" ? > > It should also be possible to put the above into /boot/loader.rc. Setting it blank seems to do the right thing. What happens otherwise is that the loader starts booting, then there's some code in it that "handily" parses the currdev's /etc/fstab for you and sets vfs.root.mountfrom to the root (/) entry from the fstab, then you wind up booting your old userland from god knows what kernel. I don't know what setting it to "ufs:/dev/md0c" would do. -- - Alfred Perlstein - Research Engineering Development Inc. - email: bright@mu.org cell: 408-480-4684 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 02:06:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F44816A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from taro.utanet.at (taro.utanet.at [213.90.36.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE8C43FCB for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from plenty.utanet.at ([213.90.36.9]) by taro.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQkwO-0008N7-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:06:04 +0100 Received: from dsl-149-118.utaonline.at ([62.218.149.118] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by plenty.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQkwN-0000as-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:06:04 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 9A6CC697; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:07:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:07:09 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031201100709.GB291@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031126083513.K43866-100000@dot.nth-order.com> <20031201031133.GA46564@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031201031133.GA46564@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE Subject: Re: Wifi IPsec Freebsd Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:06:08 -0000 Jim Brown wrote: > To move this along, I've reworked your text into the slightly more > formal style preferred for article and handbook submissions. erm, didn't you read my mail that i will mark this up in doc book (from 26th nov)? usually we try to avoid redundant work - what shall i do with my efforts i put in this article now? erase it? this is not very nice. -josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 07:53:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D64C316A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from thong.s2s.msu.ru (thong.s2s.msu.ru [193.232.119.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2451043FE0 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:53:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chinhngt@mail.ru) Received: from hq.sectorb.msk.ru (petaflop.lcm.msu.ru [193.232.113.220]) by thong.s2s.msu.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1141A652C for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:53:02 +0300 (MSK) Received: from unix.local (unix.local [172.16.12.120]) by hq.sectorb.msk.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2322C19CB for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:53:01 +0300 (MSK) From: Nguyen Tam Chinh Organization: CHTO International To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:53:26 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20031126083513.K43866-100000@dot.nth-order.com> <20031201031133.GA46564@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <20031201100709.GB291@jenny.daemon.li> In-Reply-To: <20031201100709.GB291@jenny.daemon.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312011853.26436.chinhngt@mail.ru> Subject: About translation of Handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: chinhngt@mail.ru List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:53:27 -0000 Good evening, I've just registered to this mailling list for some day. Here are my first problems :): - I want to translate some of materials (at first the handbook) in the fdp to my mother lang-vietnamese. I would start this work right after receiving an accepting answer from you, coordinators of the fdp. What's your opinions? - The standart font for vietnamese language is utf-8, is this okay for a i18n handbook? (may be someone prefer to use the old viqr, tcvn or vps fonts) That's all. Waiting for your reply. -- With best regards, Nguyen Tam Chinh CMC - MSU - R.F. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 09:01:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B18F16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ventanatech.com (ventanatech.com [192.220.75.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D74543FE0 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wynn@ventanatech.com) Received: (qmail 35240 invoked by uid 19303); 1 Dec 2003 17:01:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ventanatech.com) ([69.17.34.247]) (envelope-sender ) by 192.220.75.103 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Dec 2003 17:01:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3FCB73AE.6020900@ventanatech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:00:30 -0800 From: Wynn Kageyama User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: remove duplicate entry on non-profit LIFE ElderCare, Inc. X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:01:58 -0000 Please remove the duplicate entry for non-profit organizations: LIFE ElderCare, Inc. -- Fremont, California, Meals on Wheels and Friendly Visitor service to seniors in southern Alameda County. -Wynn -- WeCare/Solutions WeCare/Meals on Wheels SysAdmins from VentanaTech.com Ventana Technology, Incorporated 423 Becado Drive Fremont, CA 94539-6203 510-659-1360, fax 510-659-9620 www.ventanatech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 10:31:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C03916A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED86D44020; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1IVUI3089934; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:31:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:31:28 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: Mark Linimon Subject: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:31:44 -0000 Grettings, Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their information faster. Main changes include: o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is repeated on the right bar. o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This will help users locate information on arch support without going through a maze of links. o As per PR www/59853, add a 'Crafting Bug Reports' link to the problem reports article. Other possible changes could be: Under Development, remove the Release Engineering link (we have a section on it already). Perhaps replace it with a link to Threads and other development areas. This may increase exposure for those projects and ultimately increase support, patches, and development in those areas. Comments, suggestions, and even a new patch (not a patch to this patch though) are very welcome. Thank you. -- Tom Rhodes --- index.xsl.old Mon Dec 1 12:53:03 2003 +++ index.xsl Mon Dec 1 13:06:33 2003 @@ -94,13 +94,16 @@ bgcolor="#ffcc66" width="100%"> -

News - - -
- · Announcements
- · In the Press
- · More ... +

+ + Platform Support: +
+ · i386/SMP
+ · Alpha
+ · IA64
+ · Power PC
+ · Sparc
+ · More?

Software @@ -110,48 +113,52 @@ · Ported Applications

-

Documentation - -
- · For Newbies
- · Handbook
+

+ + Documentation +
· FAQ
+ · Handbook
· Manual pages
+ · For Newbies
· Doc. Project
- · More...

-

Support - -
+

+ + Support +
· Mailing lists
· Newsgroups
· User Groups
· Web Resources
· Security
- · Events
- · More...

-

Bug Reports -
+

+ + Bug Reports +
+ · Search
+ · View one bug report
+ · View all bug reports
· Send a bug report
- · View open reports
- · Search by bug ID
- · More...
+ · Crafting Bug Reports

-

Development - -
- · Projects
- · Release Engineering
+

+ + Development +
+ · Developer's Handbook
+ · Porter's Handbook
· CVS Repository
+ · Release Engineering
+ · Contributing to FreeBSD

Vendors -
· Software
· Hardware
@@ -165,15 +172,28 @@ · Current Donations
· List of needs

- -

This Site - -
- · Site Map
- · Search
- · More ...
-

- + +

+ + This Site +
+ · Search Website
+ · Search Mailing Lists
+ · Search All
+

+ +

+ + Contacting FreeBSD + +

+ +

+ + The BSD Copyright + +

+
Search for:
@@ -302,9 +322,10 @@ -

New Technology Release: -
- +

+ + New Technology Release: +
· Announcement
· Installation Guide
· Release Notes
@@ -312,8 +333,10 @@ · Errata
· Early Adopter's Guide

-

Production Release: -
+

+ + Production Release: +
· Announcement
· Installation Guide
From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 10:37:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F1A16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323CF44011 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mawa@shaw.ca) Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107])2003)) with ESMTP id <0HP800C3RBPGH2@l-daemon> for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml5so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml5so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.149]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HP8005V5BPGKN@l-daemon> for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from sutherland (h24-81-87-44.vs.shawcable.net [24.81.87.44]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with SMTP id <0HP80094XBPF18@l-daemon> for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:36:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:42:48 -0800 From: mawa To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Message-id: <000a01c3b83a$eb8e6ea0$2c575118@vs.shawcable.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: screen problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:37:58 -0000 How to set up my screen on Compaque 1245 for best dislpay resolution? In 1024 x 728 pix. display goes over the screen,doesn't fit the screen. But in the smaller resolution display fits the screen. Thanks, Lou From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 10:51:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D0916A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:51:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.seekingfire.com (coyote.seekingfire.com [24.72.10.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB8F43F85 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tillman@seekingfire.com) Received: by mail.seekingfire.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 91F0A6B2; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:51:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:51:42 -0600 From: Tillman Hodgson To: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031201185142.GM90713@seekingfire.com> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . X-GPG-Key-ID: 828AFC7B X-GPG-Fingerprint: 5584 14BA C9EB 1524 0E68 F543 0F0A 7FBC 828A FC7B X-GPG-Key: http://www.seekingfire.com/gpg_key.asc X-Urban-Legend: There is lots of hidden information in headers User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:51:46 -0000 On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 01:31:28PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > Grettings, > > Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've > produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few > simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their > information faster. > > Main changes include: > > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > repeated on the right bar. > > o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This > will help users locate information on arch support without going > through a maze of links. > > o As per PR www/59853, add a 'Crafting Bug Reports' link to the > problem reports article. I haven't been involved in any discussions around changing the front page, but I'm really happy to see the direction that it's likely to go. I'll toss an idea in: Cleaning up the "Mailing lists" link under "Documentation". It's two clicks away from a list of the available lists, and three away from a subscribe/unsubcribe page. It also seems a bit confusing ... multiple ways to get to archives (and what appears to be two different archiving systems). A visitor sees non-English language-specific lists before they see the topic-specific lists. The first link seems to be somewhat superfluous ... perhaps linking directly to /doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL and migrating some of the information at the current link might help. -T -- You cannot manipulate a marionette with only one string. - The Zensunni Whip From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:01:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E35716A4DB for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA22043FF3 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1J0eFY014829 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB1J0dh3014822 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:00:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200312011900.hB1J0dh3014822@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: FreeBSD doc list Subject: Current unassigned doc problem reports X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:01:03 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. Bugs can be in one of several states: o - open A problem report has been submitted, no sanity checking performed. a - analyzed The problem is understood and a solution is being sought. f - feedback Further work requires additional information from the originator or the community - possibly confirmation of the effectiveness of a proposed solution. p - patched A patch has been committed, but some issues (MFC and / or confirmation from originator) are still open. s - suspended The problem is not being worked on, due to lack of information or resources. This is a prime candidate for somebody who is looking for a project to do. If the problem cannot be solved at all, it will be closed, rather than suspended. c - closed A problem report is closed when any changes have been integrated, documented, and tested -- or when fixing the problem is abandoned. Critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- a [2001/10/31] i386/31671 doc 4.4 installer hangs at " Mounting root fr 1 problem total. Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- s [1999/10/04] i386/14135 doc lpt1 nolonger exists after 3.2-RELEASE s [2000/07/18] docs/20028 doc ASCII docs should reflect tags o [2001/05/23] docs/27605 doc Cross-document references () o [2002/01/15] docs/33929 doc Section 15.15 of the FreeBSD Porter's Han s [2002/03/08] docs/35678 doc docproj Makefiles for web are broken for o [2002/03/21] docs/36168 doc -pthread/_THREAD_SAFE docs missing in gcc o [2002/09/13] docs/42762 doc ppp.8 has no description of $env and ~use o [2002/11/14] docs/45303 doc Bug in PDF DocBook rendering o [2002/12/11] www/46195 doc man page kadmind(8) not found at www.Free o [2003/02/19] docs/48472 doc Documentation unreadable. o [2003/09/15] docs/56894 doc umass man page: "mount -t msdos" instead o [2003/10/14] docs/58033 doc [PATCH] getenv(3) manpage doesn't state t o [2003/11/22] docs/59587 doc rewriting examples (part of documentation 13 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2001/02/01] docs/24786 doc missing FILES descriptions in sa(4) o [2001/04/29] docs/26943 doc [patch] description of :C modifier is mis o [2001/07/26] docs/29245 doc top(1) manpage doesn't understand SMP a [2001/08/23] docs/30008 doc This document should be translated, comme o [2001/09/27] docs/30873 doc ``ip'' man page does not specify byte ord o [2001/10/07] docs/31109 doc replace gif images w/ png ones due to pat o [2001/11/15] docs/32020 doc loader.8 manpage missing tunables o [2002/01/05] docs/33589 doc Patch to doc.docbook.mk to post process . o [2002/01/13] docs/33852 doc split(1) man page implies that input file o [2002/01/14] docs/33877 doc Documentet behaviour of SF_flags for non- o [2002/02/15] bin/34955 doc [PATCH] ps(1) is out of touch with realit a [2002/02/16] docs/35011 doc There are no commands called "diskless" o o [2002/02/22] docs/35222 doc mailing list archive URL regexp suboptima o [2002/03/06] docs/35608 doc mt(1) page uses "setmark" without explana o [2002/03/06] docs/35609 doc mt(1) page needs explanation of "long era o [2002/03/06] docs/35612 doc ps(1) page "state" description doesn't me o [2002/03/07] docs/35642 doc lo(4) page maybe should document optional o [2002/03/07] docs/35644 doc lo(4) page presumes familiarity with prin o [2002/03/07] docs/35646 doc cp(1) page needs a "Bugs" section. o [2002/03/07] docs/35648 doc rc.conf; add note about "flags" to both f o [2002/03/08] docs/35686 doc blackhole(4) page seems to contradict its o [2002/03/08] docs/35687 doc /etc/nsmb.conf missing mention of readers o [2002/03/10] docs/35732 doc adduser(8) page has obsolete reference an o [2002/03/15] docs/35943 doc at(1) config files are misplaced in /var/ o [2002/03/15] docs/35953 doc hosts.equiv(5) manual is confusing or wro o [2002/03/28] docs/36432 doc Proposal for doc/share/mk: make folded bo o [2002/03/28] docs/36449 doc symlink(7) manual doesn't mention trailin s [2002/05/07] docs/37843 doc manual for pthread_setschedparam is wrong o [2002/05/18] docs/38225 doc change "CDROM" to "CD-ROM" o [2002/05/25] docs/38556 doc EPS file of beastie, as addition to exist o [2002/05/27] docs/38620 doc Committers Guide and CVS o [2002/05/31] docs/38772 doc firewall_type feature not mentioned on Ha o [2002/06/07] docs/38982 doc developers-hanbook/Jail fix o [2002/06/12] docs/39213 doc No rc(4) man page o [2002/06/15] docs/39348 doc kenv fetch of hostname requires dhcp/boot o [2002/06/19] docs/39530 doc access(2) man page has unnecessarily broa o [2002/06/19] docs/39532 doc 'find' man page should o [2002/06/24] docs/39824 doc Various tweaks for doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/bo o [2002/07/04] docs/40196 doc man find does not describe -follow o [2002/07/10] docs/40423 doc Keyboard(4)'s definition of parameters to o [2002/07/10] docs/40443 doc Update books/faq/book.sgml for USB .ko's o [2002/07/21] docs/40851 doc [PATCH] "mergemaster -p" in UPDATING's "C o [2002/07/28] docs/41089 doc pax -B option does not mention interactio o [2002/08/02] docs/41270 doc confusing directions for kernelconfig cha o [2002/08/07] docs/41423 doc Update FAQ: attrib command for windows du o [2002/08/19] docs/41791 doc Documentation formatting error o [2002/08/19] docs/41807 doc natd -punch_fw "bug" o [2002/08/20] docs/41820 doc Device driver confusion in Handbook (2.3) a [2002/08/27] docs/42058 doc Documentation: Installing Oracle 8i onto o [2002/10/01] docs/43569 doc src/share/examples/worm/README out-of-dat o [2002/10/04] docs/43651 doc stab(5) incorrectly states to include jus o [2002/10/09] docs/43861 doc non-trivial typo in wicontrol man page o [2002/10/11] docs/43941 doc Rationale for Upgrade Sequence o [2002/10/14] docs/44074 doc ln(1) manual clarifications [patch] o [2002/10/23] docs/44400 doc ipfw(8) has contradictions in bridged and o [2002/10/24] docs/44435 doc sysctl manpage: add example for tcsh o [2002/10/29] docs/44594 doc Handbook doesn't mention drivers.flp for o [2002/11/17] docs/45371 doc man page for exports lacks information on o [2002/12/02] docs/45940 doc burncd missing info o [2002/12/11] docs/46196 doc Missing return value in (set_)menu_format o [2002/12/11] docs/46200 doc fix for ru_RU.KOI8-R/books/porters-handbo o [2002/12/16] docs/46291 doc correlation between HZ kernel config para o [2002/12/16] docs/46295 doc please add information to Nvi recovery em o [2003/01/02] docs/46709 doc tables in terminfo.5 are broken o [2003/01/05] docs/46793 doc DEVICE_POLLING can not be used with SMP, o [2003/01/14] docs/47085 doc boot(8) manpage is incomplete according t o [2003/01/27] docs/47575 doc Clarify requirements for IPFW2 in STABLE o [2003/01/28] docs/47594 doc [PATH] passwd(5) incorrectly states allow o [2003/01/30] docs/47690 doc builtin(1) manpage is wrong about externa o [2003/01/30] docs/47705 doc wc(1) manpage has poor explanations. f [2003/02/02] docs/47818 doc ln(1) manpage is confusing f [2003/02/07] docs/48038 doc [PATCH] add Tips and Tricks section into o [2003/02/28] docs/48767 doc wrong key numbers for left/right windows o [2003/03/06] docs/48980 doc [PATCH] nsgmls -s errors and sect. 3.2.1 o [2003/03/23] docs/50211 doc [PATCH] Fix textfile creation f [2003/03/28] docs/50391 doc Incorrect information in a man o [2003/04/03] docs/50573 doc return values for res_query/res_search/re o [2003/04/07] docs/50677 doc [PATCH] update doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/ o [2003/04/10] docs/50773 doc NFS problems by jumbo frames to mention i o [2003/05/06] docs/51875 doc atkbd(4) adjustment o [2003/05/06] docs/51891 doc DIAGNOSTICS in ed driver manpage don't ma o [2003/05/07] docs/51921 doc ls(1) manpage lacks some information abou o [2003/05/11] docs/52071 doc [PATCH] Add more information about soft u o [2003/05/25] docs/52672 doc Porter's Handbook: couple of corrections o [2003/06/02] docs/52878 doc [PATCH] security(7): small clairification o [2003/06/13] docs/53303 doc mount(2) man page error o [2003/06/14] docs/53315 doc [PATCH] remove extraneous whitespace at t o [2003/06/18] docs/53454 doc wrong sample code in manpage of wcwidth(3 o [2003/06/19] docs/53501 doc [PATCH] Handbook: update snapshots sectio o [2003/06/20] docs/53575 doc Change to Handbook Section 20.9 o [2003/06/21] docs/53596 doc Updates to mt manual page o [2003/06/25] docs/53732 doc quota output and man page do not document o [2003/06/26] docs/53751 doc bus_dma(9) incorrectly documents BUS_DMA_ o [2003/07/11] docs/54380 doc [PATCH] document additional perl variable o [2003/07/11] docs/54391 doc Document that glob(3) respects LC_COLLATE o [2003/07/20] docs/54678 doc [patch] add PACKAGESITE to packages chapt o [2003/07/22] docs/54752 doc bus_dma explained in ISA section: should o [2003/07/22] docs/54769 doc [patch] updates to FAQ o [2003/07/23] docs/54789 doc [PATCH] brush up the "New Users" article o [2003/07/24] docs/54806 doc [patch] adds fvwm2 to x11-wm o [2003/07/25] docs/54879 doc man 1 jot, -r description o [2003/07/28] docs/54995 doc Error in accept(2) man page o [2003/07/28] docs/54999 doc Documentation Project Primer doesn't conf o [2003/08/03] docs/55207 doc [patch] update acroread section & add loc o [2003/08/06] docs/55306 doc [patch] adds filemanagers to desktop appl o [2003/08/11] docs/55458 doc [patch] add useful content & hints to por o [2003/08/11] docs/55482 doc DUMP has access to block devices in a JAI o [2003/08/13] docs/55538 doc [patch] add screenshots to desktop chapte o [2003/08/16] docs/55653 doc chflags.1 - note that not all tools chfla o [2003/09/04] docs/56408 doc [PATCH] add around app-default o [2003/09/04] docs/56452 doc [patch]Add EXTRACT_DEPENDS&PATCH_DEPENDS o [2003/09/13] docs/56745 doc Some suggestions for the Bibliography cha o [2003/09/14] docs/56883 doc Inadequately-documented charter for freeb o [2003/09/15] docs/56903 doc [patch] articles/fonts: add application t o [2003/09/16] docs/56915 doc [patch] articles/fonts: update links o [2003/09/16] docs/56932 doc [patch] articles/releng-packages: add "no o [2003/09/16] docs/56936 doc [patch] articles/java-tomcat: add applica o [2003/09/18] docs/56981 doc man terminfo(5) from libncurses does not o [2003/09/24] docs/57153 doc S_IRWXU missing in fstat(2) man page? o [2003/09/29] docs/57388 doc INSTALL.TXT enhancement: mention ok promp o [2003/10/04] docs/57569 doc error on gensetdefs(8) man page o [2003/10/06] docs/57669 doc IFMIB(4) man page uses sysctl(3) incorrec o [2003/10/12] docs/57926 doc amd.conf.5 poorly format as it has both m o [2003/10/13] docs/57974 doc man page apropos for select macros (FD_SE o [2003/10/13] docs/57978 doc Type miss of GPIB in Hardware Notes o [2003/10/16] docs/58111 doc Handbook 12.4.3 Rebuilding ATA RAID1 Arra o [2003/10/20] docs/58318 doc missing modifier in crontab(5) manpage (c o [2003/10/26] docs/58586 doc [patch] ng_one2many interface status requ o [2003/10/28] docs/58615 doc update for Vinum chapter of Handbook: des o [2003/10/30] docs/58710 doc killpg(2) contains an error regarding sen o [2003/10/31] docs/58783 doc crontab man could mention MAILTO supports o [2003/11/07] docs/59044 doc doc.docbook.mk does not properly handle a o [2003/11/15] docs/59305 doc [PATCH] The basics chapter of the Handboo o [2003/11/19] docs/59477 doc Outdated Info Documents at http://docs.fr o [2003/11/21] docs/59565 doc [PATCH] FAQ doesn't cover definition of g o [2003/11/24] docs/59649 doc Outdated 4.4BSD Documents at http://docs. o [2003/11/25] docs/59669 doc gethostbyname2() man-page states that onl o [2003/11/30] docs/59835 doc ipfw(8) man page does not warn about acce 138 problems total. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:04:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E698916A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35AFB4402F; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AQtIq-0004yS-6V; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:01:48 +0000 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AQtIo-0000iC-71; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:01:46 +0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:01:46 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20031201190146.GB2357@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Tom Rhodes , FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="neYutvxvOLaeuPCA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org cc: Mark Linimon Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:04:56 -0000 --neYutvxvOLaeuPCA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 01:31:28PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > +
> + · i386/SMP
> + · Alpha
> + · IA64
> + · Power PC
> + · Sparc
> + · More?
>

I'd rather see amd64 there than powerpc, purely because it's pretty much finished, and is more current hardware. Also, I'm unsure about the "i386/SMP" bit, as it gives the impression that SMP is not supported on other architectures, which is not the case. > + · Crafting Bug Reports
Could that be changed to "Writing Bug Reports" please? I don't have a good reason for this - I just don't like the word "crafting" in this context - so I'll defer to popular opinion if it goes against me. :-) Thanks very much for making progress on this, it looks good. Ceri --=20 --neYutvxvOLaeuPCA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/y5AZocfcwTS3JF8RArJqAJ9gKVu06fpk1jNDYlaBlSOr2lzalwCfcD43 LHfakEBlzTiyNxZFmHWQyeo= =7z5R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --neYutvxvOLaeuPCA-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:24:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE68E16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4C743F93 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1JOJI3090105; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:16 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Tillman Hodgson Message-Id: <20031201142416.4943ac20.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201185142.GM90713@seekingfire.com> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201185142.GM90713@seekingfire.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:24:26 -0000 On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:51:42 -0600 Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 01:31:28PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Grettings, > > > > Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've > > produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few > > simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their > > information faster. > > > > Main changes include: > > > > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > > repeated on the right bar. > > > > o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This > > will help users locate information on arch support without going > > through a maze of links. > > > > o As per PR www/59853, add a 'Crafting Bug Reports' link to the > > problem reports article. > > I haven't been involved in any discussions around changing the front > page, but I'm really happy to see the direction that it's likely to go. > > I'll toss an idea in: Cleaning up the "Mailing lists" link under > "Documentation". It's two clicks away from a list of the available > lists, and three away from a subscribe/unsubcribe page. It also seems a > bit confusing ... multiple ways to get to archives (and what appears to > be two different archiving systems). A visitor sees non-English > language-specific lists before they see the topic-specific lists. > > The first link seems to be somewhat superfluous ... perhaps linking > directly to > /doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL and > migrating some of the information at the current link might help. I'll be hitting this up too. Changing the front page is a project that must be attacked in parts. The reason being is that so many people will have a wide variety of opinions on content. Doing it section by section will make the reviewing process easy, and get more opinions in several specific areas. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:29:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E9B16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71DB43FA3; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1JSuI3090115; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:28:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:28:54 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Ceri Davies Message-Id: <20031201142854.2b73585e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201190146.GB2357@submonkey.net> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201190146.GB2357@submonkey.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Tom Rhodes cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org cc: Mark Linimon cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:29:05 -0000 On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:01:46 +0000 Ceri Davies wrote: > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 01:31:28PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > +
> > + · i386/SMP
> > + · Alpha
> > + · IA64
> > + · Power PC
> > + · Sparc
> > + · More?
> >

> > I'd rather see amd64 there than powerpc, purely because it's pretty much > finished, and is more current hardware. Thats a good idea, i'll make that change in the diff. > > Also, I'm unsure about the "i386/SMP" bit, as it gives the impression > that SMP is not supported on other architectures, which is not the case. Well, we don't have an i386 project page since most development occurred on that platform. And I did want to list i386 somewhere. Perhaps keep the link and change it to i386? > > > + · Crafting Bug Reports
> > Could that be changed to "Writing Bug Reports" please? I don't have a > good reason for this - I just don't like the word "crafting" in this > context - so I'll defer to popular opinion if it goes against me. :-) With no reasonable argument of why or why not, i'll go with your suggestion. At least until popular opinion changes that. > > Thanks very much for making progress on this, it looks good. Thank you for the input, perhaps we could review ideas of cleaning up the entire site? Nevermind, i'd rather defer that discussion until we have a new 'homepage' in place. :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:29:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747EA16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from tatiana.utanet.at (tatiana.utanet.at [213.90.36.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD1D43FF5; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:29:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from plenty.utanet.at ([213.90.36.9]) by tatiana.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQtjB-0006Ni-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:29:01 +0100 Received: from dsl-245-165.utaonline.at ([212.152.245.165] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by plenty.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQtjA-0003b1-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:29:00 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 78702697; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:30:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:30:02 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-DNSBL-Warning: listed at list.dsbl.org (http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.152.245.165) cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:29:08 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > Grettings, > > Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've > produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few > simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their > information faster. i had a look at your work, and it looks very nice, right step in right direction. i was wondering why you did not include amd64 in your "platform support" list. i think this one wil be become very important in near future (it became tier1 lately). i was wondering why you removed the events link from the frontpage, is there a certain reason? i am also not sure where we shouldn't restructure the "support" part. on the one hand side, we list possibilities how to get in touch with freebsd users (mailing lists, user groups, news groups), then there is a link to 3rd party documentation (web ressources) and then there is the link to security. first the security link is absolete, as there is already a link to this page at the and of the security advisories listing on the right hand side of the page. i would move the web resources link up to the documentation part of the navigation bar but this is just a matter of taste i think. what about the vendors section? do we really need these 4 direct links? i would move make one link for vendors, and put it under software (i.e. the ones who sell freebsd cds/dvds). and then i would move the consultors under the support section. greets, josef ps: hm, i am wondering whether i should express my views in a page, as it is a bit confusing (for me too) to put this in words instead seeing what i am thinking of. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:33:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F8116A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:33:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from tatiana.utanet.at (tatiana.utanet.at [213.90.36.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C9C43FBF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from patricia.utanet.at ([213.90.36.8]) by tatiana.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQtnV-0007rJ-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:33:29 +0100 Received: from dsl-245-165.utaonline.at ([212.152.245.165] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by patricia.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQtnU-0002nx-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:33:28 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 6D368697; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:34:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:34:33 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: mawa Message-ID: <20031201193433.GB1117@jenny.daemon.li> References: <000a01c3b83a$eb8e6ea0$2c575118@vs.shawcable.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000a01c3b83a$eb8e6ea0$2c575118@vs.shawcable.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-DNSBL-Warning: listed at list.dsbl.org (http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.152.245.165) cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: screen problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:33:36 -0000 mawa wrote: > How to set up my screen on Compaque 1245 for best dislpay resolution? hi mawa! nice to see you using freebsd. to getting best support you should use the correct mailinglist for your questions/problems, as we have a certain mailinglist for each topic, where people, who are interested in this certain topic, there you will find better help. this is the list for discussions/questions about freebsd documentation issues. i think you are more interested in this mailinglists: generic questions: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org x11 issues: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org for a detailed list about mailinglists available at freebsd.org, and 3rd party mailinglists, have a look at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL greets, josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:38:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E2616A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C171543FF2; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1JbfI3090151; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:37:28 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li Message-Id: <20031201143728.39531f1b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:38:13 -0000 On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:30:02 +0100 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Grettings, > > > > Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've > > produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few > > simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their > > information faster. > > i had a look at your work, and it looks very nice, right step > in right direction. i was wondering why you did not > include amd64 in your "platform support" list. > i think this one wil be become very important in near future > (it became tier1 lately). Yes, Ceri has already pointed this out to me. I'll be making a change to my patch after this email. > > i was wondering why you removed the events link from > the frontpage, is there a certain reason? Because that information, in my opinion, is redundant. Everything in that area can be found on the right side under the 4.9 links. Believe it or not, we really don't have a need for 8 News/Press links on the front page. :) > > i am also not sure where we shouldn't restructure > the "support" part. on the one hand side, > we list possibilities how to get in touch > with freebsd users (mailing lists, user groups, news groups), > then there is a link to 3rd party documentation (web ressources) > and then there is the link to security. Now we are getting a little ahead of ourselves. This project, due to the variety of opinions and comments, should be a piece by piece change. The support area will be at the tip of my spear in the patch or so. Your opinons on these are very welcome. > > first the security link is absolete, as there is already > a link to this page at the and of the security advisories listing > on the right hand side of the page. Exactly! :) > > i would move the web resources link up to the documentation part of the navigation bar > but this is just a matter of taste i think. Actually, I have some plans for the documentation/support area. Keep watching the discussion my friend. > > what about the vendors section? do we really need these 4 direct links? > i would move make one link for vendors, > and put it under software (i.e. the ones who sell freebsd > cds/dvds). and then i would move the consultors under the > support section. This I have yet to look over, and as such must wait until the first round of changes are passed. :) > > greets, josef > > ps: hm, i am wondering whether i should express my > views in a page, as it is a bit confusing (for me too) > to put this in words instead seeing what i am thinking of. > I hear that! -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 11:58:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD96816A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:58:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from tatiana.utanet.at (tatiana.utanet.at [213.90.36.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB5F43FDD; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from pam.utanet.at ([213.90.36.6]) by tatiana.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQuAk-0006ZY-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:57:30 +0100 Received: from dsl-245-165.utaonline.at ([212.152.245.165] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by pam.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQuAk-0004RB-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:57:30 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 176FD697; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:58:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:58:35 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20031201195835.GC1117@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> <20031201143728.39531f1b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031201143728.39531f1b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-DNSBL-Warning: listed at list.dsbl.org (http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.152.245.165) cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:58:06 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > > i was wondering why you removed the events link from > > the frontpage, is there a certain reason? > Because that information, in my opinion, is redundant. Everything > in that area can be found on the right side under the 4.9 links. hmm, i have the feeling we are talking about 2 different things here. i was actually talking about the link to the events page, where we list all freebsd related events, like conferences. why is this redundant with the news/press section which does (should) not cover the events, which get seperately listed at www.freebsd.org/events/? sorry if i just misunderstood your answer. -josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 12:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369C916A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C8E43FEA; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:07:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1K7oI3090236; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:42 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li Message-Id: <20031201150742.446de66e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201195835.GC1117@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> <20031201143728.39531f1b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201195835.GC1117@jenny.daemon.li> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:08:13 -0000 On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:58:35 +0100 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > i was wondering why you removed the events link from > > > the frontpage, is there a certain reason? > > > Because that information, in my opinion, is redundant. Everything > > in that area can be found on the right side under the 4.9 links. > > hmm, i have the feeling we are talking about 2 different things here. > > i was actually talking about the link to the events page, where we list all freebsd related events, like > conferences. why is this redundant with the news/press > section which does (should) not cover the events, > which get seperately listed at www.freebsd.org/events/? Your a bit correct and a bit off. Yet, we could be thinking two completely different things here. What I mean is, we don't need two areas for press/news/events. The events section should be moved over under the Project News section. I think that conferences should be considered 'Project News', don't you? :) > > sorry if i just misunderstood your answer. Oh its fine, email is not the 'best' form of communication. Are we on the same wavelink now? -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 12:13:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F3C16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1513743F3F; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:12:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2003120120123901200381ute>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:12:39 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1KCQTG091117; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB1KCL8G091116; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:12:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> (Tom Rhodes's message of "Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:31:28 -0500") Message-ID: <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org cc: Mark Linimon Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:13:09 -0000 Tom Rhodes writes: > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > repeated on the right bar. Good move, but what's to happen to the /news/ pages? http://www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html has a link to http://www.freebsd.org/news/newsflash.html Maybe replace news/*.html with "no longer in use" pages, to cut down on bug reports, etc. > o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This > will help users locate information on arch support without going > through a maze of links. The center section already mentions supported platforms. The stuff proposed for addition seems mostly for developers and belongs in the development section or one of its linked pages. If someone wants to add platform-related user stuff outside the handbook, it could be linked to off the "release info" page, or from the web page navigation "Software" section. > Under Development, remove the Release Engineering link (we have > a section on it already). The front page should be moving to a layout that segregates stuff for developers out of the way of other users. The "Software" section should be for non-developers but should have an RE intro (preferably just a link to a handbook section) and most or all of the RE scheduling info. The "Development" section deserves its own RE link for things like developer-only RE docs and RE team member lists, etc. For the same reason, the "Doc. Project" link should be moved to the "Development" section; it's of no interest to typical users. Along the same lines, "Release Information" is rather esoteric and could be confused for a verb phrase. How about "Version information" or "FreeBSD versions"? The "Release Information" link should be above the "Getting FreeBSD" link, because one should learn about the releases before getting one. The link "Ported Applications" is more esoteric than it needs to be; the first word is not helpful and only makes newbies scratch their heads. The linked page is about ports for now, but someone could later replace it with a more generic page about applications, with a section on ports. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 12:28:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3EA16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta8.adelphia.net (mta8.adelphia.net [68.168.78.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFABB43FE0; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201202055.PWMB4878.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBA2A7.2060708@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:20:55 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:28:53 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > Grettings, > > Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've > produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few > simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their > information faster. > > Main changes include: > > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > repeated on the right bar. > > o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This > will help users locate information on arch support without going > through a maze of links. > > o As per PR www/59853, add a 'Crafting Bug Reports' link to the > problem reports article. This sounds very promising. After reading some of the responses on how this change will likely trickle-down to other changes within the site, I realized just how big a can of worms have been opened. I only have one question: why add a new link seperate from the link to send-per.html ... I thought the general consensus during the previous disucssions was to change the "Send a bug report" link. It just goes against my nature to leave a link up that points to a page that basically says, "under construction/not working right now" If this has already been discussed and I missed it, then I apologize for the noise. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 12:34:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF8916A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from seaholm.caamora.com.au (seaholm.caamora.com.au [203.7.226.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F0743F75; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by seaholm.caamora.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id hB1KXFE24771; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:33:15 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <20031202073315.08270@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:33:15 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: "Gary W. Swearingen" References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net>; from Gary W. Swearingen on Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 12:12:21PM -0800 Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia cc: Tom Rhodes cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org cc: Mark Linimon cc: FreeBSD-www@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:34:32 -0000 greetings, On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 12:12:21PM -0800, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Tom Rhodes writes: > > > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > > repeated on the right bar. > > Good move, but what's to happen to the /news/ pages? > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html has a link to > http://www.freebsd.org/news/newsflash.html > > Maybe replace news/*.html with "no longer in use" pages, to cut down > on bug reports, etc. yes, i think that would be a good idea, it would also cut down on teh confusion in peoplesminds and teh mailing lists questions regards the perenial "whats current (ly supported)?" after every noe crop of new releases.. also it is a passive way to keep people updated, especially those who do not follow teh relevent mailinglists concering teh release adgenda and so forth. > Along the same lines, "Release Information" is rather esoteric and > could be confused for a verb phrase. How about "Version information" > or "FreeBSD versions"? > > The "Release Information" link should be above the "Getting FreeBSD" > link, because one should learn about the releases before getting one. me thinks that tehis too is a good addition that would also help the many (now) first timers (i mean teh never used berkeley unix before, or any similar type of operating system before) and perhaps the more casual linux user, maybe even teh ms nt v4 sys admin as well. regards jonathan ... just my 1.44 cents ... ($USD1.00 buys $AUD0.72) worth. -- ================================================================ powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system ==== === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ==== From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:02:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EB916A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu (GS166.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 677D543FFB for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpelleg@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu) Sender: dpelleg@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu To: Bill Moran References: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> <20031126234313.GZ90881@submonkey.net> <3FC53E21.9020709@potentialtech.com> From: Dan Pelleg Date: 01 Dec 2003 16:01:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: <3FC53E21.9020709@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: Lines: 42 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Linux users X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:02:08 -0000 Bill Moran writes: > Ceri Davies wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 03:25:37PM -0800, bri an wrote: > > > > >>I am a Work-study at a University. I have allot of > >>staff using Redhat. I have been working on helping > >>people move to Freebsd. I have been using it for a two > >>months. I would love to help in anyway. I am not very > >>versed in Freebsd, But I know how to RTFM. I can be a > >>great tester to see what the document needs. > > I think it needs writing. ;-) > > > Seriously, on the doc team we are all long term FreeBSD users, and lack > > > the newcomer perspective to write this document. A list of pointers to > > things that people migrating find difficult would be useful to start. > [snip] > 3) Hard-core admins are confused by the fact that so much config info is in > /etc/rc.conf. They're even more confused by the fact that the rest of > the config is in /usr/local/etc The location of the config directory isn't the only thing that looks strange to them. The linux executables, as well, traditionally go in /bin (or /sbin). It seems that someone migrating from linux would find it more familiar to have ports' PREFIX set to / (instead of /usr/local). The disadvantages are: 1. risk of filling the / slice (which is typically very small on FreeBSD and very big on most linux distros). 2. a port file overrunning a same-named file in the base system. Some people find it easier to keep these two things in mind than to get used to the idea of /usr/local. Another thing that's a "freebsd annoyance" is the lack of init scripts for base system services (this only holds in 4.X). -- Dan Pelleg From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:07:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC0516A4CF; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D9443FFB; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:06:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1L6VI3090388; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:06:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:06:28 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Message-Id: <20031201160628.3df5ff8e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org cc: Mark Linimon Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:07:06 -0000 On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:12:21 -0800 underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) wrote: > Tom Rhodes writes: > > > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > > repeated on the right bar. > > Good move, but what's to happen to the /news/ pages? > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html has a link to > http://www.freebsd.org/news/newsflash.html All but one of the 'Press' pages had links on the right side bar. This will be fixed in a later commit. > > Maybe replace news/*.html with "no longer in use" pages, to cut down > on bug reports, etc. Maybe, but I would like a wider review on it first. After the first change is made, another patch can be forged for this purpose. > > > o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This > > will help users locate information on arch support without going > > through a maze of links. > > The center section already mentions supported platforms. The stuff > proposed for addition seems mostly for developers and belongs in the > development section or one of its linked pages. If someone wants to > add platform-related user stuff outside the handbook, it could be > linked to off the "release info" page, or from the web page navigation > "Software" section. The key word here is 'mentions', and the idea here is not to just mention, but link to information. Say for instance that you are not a developer, but own a Sparc. Would it not be easier to just click a link on the corner than to see its supported and hunt down the link yourself? I honestly don't think that everyone who owns a Sparc, Alpha, or AMD64 system is a developer, nor would they care. They would want quick access to the information about FreeBSD on their CPU. The Development section could also include platform information, however, most of the development work is aimed at every platform supported. KSE for instance is a good candidate for the development section. > > > Under Development, remove the Release Engineering link (we have > > a section on it already). > > The front page should be moving to a layout that segregates stuff for > developers out of the way of other users. The "Software" section > should be for non-developers but should have an RE intro (preferably > just a link to a handbook section) and most or all of the RE > scheduling info. The "Development" section deserves its own RE link > for things like developer-only RE docs and RE team member lists, etc. I completely agree with this first statement. We should have the information divided between users and developers. But we should also include support and documentation, projects that are under active development, and other resources. The information should be easy to find, even for new users. An idea I had after sending my initial RFC. It was to get a series of questions together about FreeBSD. Send about 5+ users to the site and see how long it takes them to answer those questions. These people should be familiar with the Internet, but unfamiliar with our website. > > > For the same reason, the "Doc. Project" link should be moved to the > "Development" section; it's of no interest to typical users. A similar idea was going through my head, but I don't want to make a huge change in one commit. > > Along the same lines, "Release Information" is rather esoteric and > could be confused for a verb phrase. How about "Version information" > or "FreeBSD versions"? > > The "Release Information" link should be above the "Getting FreeBSD" > link, because one should learn about the releases before getting one. > > The link "Ported Applications" is more esoteric than it needs to be; > the first word is not helpful and only makes newbies scratch their > heads. The linked page is about ports for now, but someone could > later replace it with a more generic page about applications, with a > section on ports. Now we are getting ahead of ourselves. Your commits hold merit with this little project of mine, but I'm not ready to tackle the entire front page/site at this time. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:09:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E306116A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2DA43F75; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:08:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (cs242719-195.austin.rr.com [24.27.19.195]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5E314694; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:08:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FCAEDEA.9020108@lonesome.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:29:46 -0600 From: Mark Linimon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030713 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:09:36 -0000 So far I'd have to say I like most of these followon suggestions. My goals in proposing some of the changes were to keep in mind that each 'first click' should take you to something general, and each 'second click' should take you to something more specific. The front page is a real mix-and-match of that right now. That's why I proposed moving or dropping some of the links that I did; not that they're not informative on their own, they just need to be pushed down a page (and a few, like to the mailing lists, need to be pulled up). Indeed the second-click pages are in need of work themselves (or of being created, in a couple of places, even if only as a paragraph plus a list of 'see for more' links), but I like Tom's suggestion of doing it in stages. I started working on the internal/index.html page before bogging down myself :-) mcl From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:14:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3997416A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:14:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342EA43FEC; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:14:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1LECI3090428; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:14:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:14:09 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Bill Moran Message-Id: <20031201161409.2c2729ee.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3FCBA2A7.2060708@potentialtech.com> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCBA2A7.2060708@potentialtech.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:14:43 -0000 On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:20:55 -0500 Bill Moran wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Grettings, > > > > Thanks to Mark Linimon who provided a starting point for this, I've > > produced a patch for the front page. This patch just makes a few > > simple 'structure' changes to hopefully allow users to find their > > information faster. > > > > Main changes include: > > > > o Removing the 'News' section. Most of the information there is > > repeated on the right bar. > > > > o Adding a supported platforms section (replaces the above). This > > will help users locate information on arch support without going > > through a maze of links. > > > > o As per PR www/59853, add a 'Crafting Bug Reports' link to the > > problem reports article. > > This sounds very promising. After reading some of the responses on > how this change will likely trickle-down to other changes within the > site, I realized just how big a can of worms have been opened. Exactly why I want to do this discussed and done change by change. > > I only have one question: why add a new link seperate from the link > to send-per.html ... I thought the general consensus during the > previous disucssions was to change the "Send a bug report" link. > It just goes against my nature to leave a link up that points to > a page that basically says, "under construction/not working right > now" Ceri is working on getting the send-pr.sgml file reactivated. > > If this has already been discussed and I missed it, then I apologize > for the noise. > It was not really discussed in depth, but publicly on another -www thread. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:19:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C7116A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C0C4401E for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:19:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201211915.JMMP1464.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:19:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:19:11 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:19:20 -0000 Hey, Here's my first major foray into writing for the handbook. Please be gentle ;) I've added a section to the mail chapter. This comes after years of beating sendmail into submission only to have a client show me a far easier way. The new section (rendered) can be found here: http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/handbook/outgoing-only.html The diff against the sgml file is here: http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/handbook/chapter.diff If I don't get any feedback after a week or so, I'll assume it's perfect and submit a PR ;) In all seriousness, I'm not totally confident with docbook yet, so suggestions on all levels are appreciated. (at least I got make to stop complaining ;) -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:26:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA78D16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F305744001; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB1LP3I3090466; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:25:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:25:01 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Mark Linimon Message-Id: <20031201162501.2e55d797.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3FCAEDEA.9020108@lonesome.com> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCAEDEA.9020108@lonesome.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:26:03 -0000 On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:29:46 -0600 Mark Linimon wrote: > So far I'd have to say I like most of these followon suggestions. > > My goals in proposing some of the changes were to keep in mind > that each 'first click' should take you to something general, and each > 'second click' should take you to something more specific. The > front page is a real mix-and-match of that right now. That's why I > proposed moving or dropping some of the links that I did; not that > they're not informative on their own, they just need to be pushed down > a page (and a few, like to the mailing lists, need to be pulled up). This first paragraph explains exactly why some changes need to be made. As an Internet user I can safely say that if I visit a website and spend more than 10 minutes searching for the information I want, I'll leave. The easier information is to find, the happier our users will be. It may also help cut down on bug reports or the occasional 'Where can I find information on ..." emails. > > Indeed the second-click pages are in need of work themselves > (or of being created, in a couple of places, even if only as a paragraph > plus a list of 'see for more' links), but I like Tom's suggestion of > doing it in stages. I started working on the internal/index.html page > before bogging down myself :-) Thank you. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:27:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E8516A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D940A44001; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:26:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201212633.JRQN1464.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:26:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBB205.7070709@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:26:29 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCBA2A7.2060708@potentialtech.com> <20031201161409.2c2729ee.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201161409.2c2729ee.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:27:34 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:20:55 -0500 > Bill Moran wrote: >>I only have one question: why add a new link seperate from the link >>to send-per.html ... I thought the general consensus during the >>previous disucssions was to change the "Send a bug report" link. >>It just goes against my nature to leave a link up that points to >>a page that basically says, "under construction/not working right >>now" > > Ceri is working on getting the send-pr.sgml file reactivated. I guess my point is that I feel only a single link is required (even after the send-pr.sgml file is reactivated) and that it should point to the article. I suspect that people who use the send-pr form frequently will make a bookmark to it, so those who are trying to get to it from the home page should be "encouraged" to read up on proper procedure before submitting. But I may be out of line on this? Can you provide a pointer to the discussion on -www? I wasn't able to find it searching the archive, but I may have been looking for the wrong thing. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:28:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447D916A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BEA244022 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201210114.QVSQ4878.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:01:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBAC1A.5000006@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:01:14 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: I want the result to end up in a different directory when I make the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:28:28 -0000 I guess this would apply to anything under the doc tree. When I run make, I tried this (because it seemed logical) make FORMATS=html-split DESTDIR=/path/where/i/want/it But the html files are still created in the same directory that I ran make. I assume there's some incantation that will put the results where I want them, but I've been unable to figure it out. Thanks in advance. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:29:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BACD16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CE844022 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:28:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031201210748.QZCI4878.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:07:48 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBADA3.8070909@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:07:47 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Pelleg References: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> <20031126234313.GZ90881@submonkey.net> <3FC53E21.9020709@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Linux users X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:29:03 -0000 Dan Pelleg wrote: > Bill Moran writes: > >>Ceri Davies wrote: >> >>>On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 03:25:37PM -0800, bri an wrote: >>> >> >>>>I am a Work-study at a University. I have allot of >>>>staff using Redhat. I have been working on helping >>>>people move to Freebsd. I have been using it for a two >>>>months. I would love to help in anyway. I am not very >>>>versed in Freebsd, But I know how to RTFM. I can be a >>>>great tester to see what the document needs. >>> >>>I think it needs writing. ;-) >> >>>Seriously, on the doc team we are all long term FreeBSD users, and lack >> >>>the newcomer perspective to write this document. A list of pointers to >>>things that people migrating find difficult would be useful to start. > > [snip] > >>3) Hard-core admins are confused by the fact that so much config info is in >> /etc/rc.conf. They're even more confused by the fact that the rest of >> the config is in /usr/local/etc > > The location of the config directory isn't the only thing that looks > strange to them. The linux executables, as well, traditionally go in /bin > (or /sbin). It seems that someone migrating from linux would find it more > familiar to have ports' PREFIX set to / (instead of /usr/local). The > disadvantages are: 1. risk of filling the / slice (which is typically very > small on FreeBSD and very big on most linux distros). 2. a port file > overrunning a same-named file in the base system. Some people find it > easier to keep these two things in mind than to get used to the idea of > /usr/local. In my experience, I haven't seen anyone have trouble with this, I would assume the reason is that they seldom need to know where the binaries are. As long as their path looks for them, they'll run and nobody's the wiser. It would be useful information to impart, however. But most Linuxites would try "whereis binname" if they were wondering where it was. I agree that setting PREFIX to / is a bad idea. There's a reason why ports are installed in /usr/local, and I think it's a good reason. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:32:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D1516A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A6543FD7 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:32:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1AQveF-0005K6-GK; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:32:03 +0000 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AQveD-00019Z-Ev; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:32:01 +0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:32:01 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20031201213201.GD2357@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Bill Moran , doc@freebsd.org References: <3FCBAC1A.5000006@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+B+y8wtTXqdUj1xM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FCBAC1A.5000006@potentialtech.com> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I want the result to end up in a different directory when I make the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:32:10 -0000 --+B+y8wtTXqdUj1xM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 04:01:14PM -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > I guess this would apply to anything under the doc tree. >=20 > When I run make, I tried this (because it seemed logical) > make FORMATS=3Dhtml-split DESTDIR=3D/path/where/i/want/it >=20 > But the html files are still created in the same directory > that I ran make. >=20 > I assume there's some incantation that will put the > results where I want them, but I've been unable to figure > it out. make FORMATS=3Dhtml-split DESTDIR=3D/path/where/i/want/it install clean Ceri --=20 --+B+y8wtTXqdUj1xM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/y7NRocfcwTS3JF8RAl+TAKCJ15OnfqlfaqqdY7qWHLJ6Unvq6ACgpIJ/ CjP0xL1n8BwBUKkLU5VU6Bw= =/7TM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+B+y8wtTXqdUj1xM-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:40:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F91916A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3920043FF7; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (cs242719-195.austin.rr.com [24.27.19.195]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A9D14694; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:39:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FCAF53F.6010409@lonesome.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 02:01:03 -0600 From: Mark Linimon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030713 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCBA2A7.2060708@potentialtech.com> <20031201161409.2c2729ee.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCBB205.7070709@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3FCBB205.7070709@potentialtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:40:44 -0000 > Can you provide a pointer to the discussion [of the send-pr link] on -www? I think what is meant was the mention, in passing, of incorporating www/59853. mcl From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 13:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A6C16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.seekingfire.com (coyote.seekingfire.com [24.72.10.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99D043FF7 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tillman@seekingfire.com) Received: by mail.seekingfire.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 13F448B7; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:40:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:40:52 -0600 From: Tillman Hodgson To: doc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031201214052.GY90713@seekingfire.com> References: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> <20031126234313.GZ90881@submonkey.net> <3FC53E21.9020709@potentialtech.com> <3FCBADA3.8070909@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FCBADA3.8070909@potentialtech.com> X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . X-GPG-Key-ID: 828AFC7B X-GPG-Fingerprint: 5584 14BA C9EB 1524 0E68 F543 0F0A 7FBC 828A FC7B X-GPG-Key: http://www.seekingfire.com/gpg_key.asc X-Urban-Legend: There is lots of hidden information in headers User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Linux users X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:41:14 -0000 On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 04:07:47PM -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > >The location of the config directory isn't the only thing that looks > >strange to them. The linux executables, as well, traditionally go in /bin > >(or /sbin). It seems that someone migrating from linux would find it more > >familiar to have ports' PREFIX set to / (instead of /usr/local). The > >disadvantages are: 1. risk of filling the / slice (which is typically very > >small on FreeBSD and very big on most linux distros). 2. a port file > >overrunning a same-named file in the base system. Some people find it > >easier to keep these two things in mind than to get used to the idea of > >/usr/local. > > In my experience, I haven't seen anyone have trouble with this, I would > assume the reason is that they seldom need to know where the binaries are. > As long as their path looks for them, they'll run and nobody's the wiser. Additionally, the the FHS specifies "/opt" for this purpose. It's likely either an older distribution or a distribution that follows RedHat in ignoring /opt if one sees /bin being uses. And /opt maps nicely to /usr/local in concept. -T -- A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me a sense of obligation." - Stephen Crane From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 14:08:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C89316A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from dot.nth-order.com (adsl-66-127-241-62.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [66.127.241.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D7B43FBD for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:08:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tham@nth-order.com) Received: from dot.nth-order.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dot.nth-order.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1M8SpD054866 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tham@nth-order.com) Received: from localhost (tham@localhost)hB1M8Re3054863 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tham@nth-order.com) X-Authentication-Warning: dot.nth-order.com: tham owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:08:26 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy Ham To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20031201200054.D080016A507@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: <20031201134637.C54831-100000@dot.nth-order.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Wifi IPsec Freebsd Windows X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:08:34 -0000 Ok, ok. I didn't expect my short set-up guide to be so well received. :) If someone of Authority (in charge of Docs) could give me an go-ahead, I can write the section 10.10.4 (Scenario #2 of VPN IPsec) of the FreeBSD Handbook, in the proper Handbook style, with links and references to other docs. However, I would like to point out two things: 1. My guide deals with both FreeBSD and Windows. If I did write section 10.10.4, I think it should be just the first half of my guide with minor changes to set up *two* FreeBSD machines instead. 2. If 1 was done, then my guide would have lost its usefulness as a guide. Maybe I should submit it to Daemon News instead, perhaps a follow up to this one: http://www.daemonnews.org/200101/ipsec-howto.html Thanks for your attention, T From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 14:17:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702D316A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from tatiana.utanet.at (tatiana.utanet.at [213.90.36.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F52243FCB for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:17:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from plenty.utanet.at ([213.90.36.9]) by tatiana.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQwM9-0002Qz-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:17:25 +0100 Received: from dsl-245-165.utaonline.at ([212.152.245.165] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by plenty.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQwM6-0002NL-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:17:22 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 057656E1; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:18:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:18:25 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-DNSBL-Warning: listed at list.dsbl.org (http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.152.245.165) cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:17:31 -0000 Bill Moran wrote: > In all seriousness, I'm not totally confident with docbook > yet, so suggestions > on all levels are appreciated. (at least I got make to > stop complaining ;) hy, i had a look at your patch and i have following suggestions: line 27: &man.send-pr.1; which creates a link to the send-pr manualpage. line 45: the dot should not be inside the apostrophes. line 48: Execute the following commands as root. <- shouldn't this end with ':' instead of '.'? line 47+48: mark ssmtp port up with mail/ssmtp line 51: i think it is common practice in the handbook to propose "make install clean" for installations. line 53: i would markup ssmtp with application tag line 26+32: why is there a different identing? as far as i can see, both lines are on same level. line 56-60: what about indenting here? line 71: s/ssmpt/ssmtp line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". in my opinion your patch is too long. i think the same effect could be achieved by 30% of the lines. you do not need to do such intense arguing why to use. for me 3 lines, a note that there is a port, that allows users to avoid sendmail, when they want to use send-pr would suffice. i also think that installing & configuring ssmtp is a trivial task, is there really a need to donate a whole page to this? what about something like this: If you just want to pass your email to your isp's mail relay, and want to avoid installing a mail transfer agent, try mail/ssmtp, which is a easy to set up program, that fulfills this task.. dont feel offended, this is just my view. -josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 14:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEEA16A4CF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACB643FBD for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB1MUIFY051399 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB1MUImu051398; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:30:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:30:18 -0800 (PST) Resent-Message-Id: <200312012230.hB1MUImu051398@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Lukas Ertl Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C13616A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.univie.ac.at (mailbox.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2F443F93 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from le@univie.ac.at) Received: from korben.in.tern (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) by mailbox.univie.ac.at (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MOMD0364388 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:24:25 +0100 Received: from korben.in.tern (korben.in.tern [127.0.0.1]) by korben.in.tern (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1MONdY002865 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:24:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from le@korben.in.tern) Received: (from le@localhost) by korben.in.tern (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB1MOII7002864; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:24:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from le) Message-Id: <200312012224.hB1MOII7002864@korben.in.tern> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:24:18 +0100 (CET) From: Lukas Ertl To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/59879: [PATCH] handbook/multimedia: clarify 5.x behaviour wrt to devfs X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Lukas Ertl List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:30:22 -0000 >Number: 59879 >Category: docs >Synopsis: [PATCH] handbook/multimedia: clarify 5.x behaviour wrt to devfs >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Mon Dec 01 14:30:18 PST 2003 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Lukas Ertl >Release: FreeBSD 5.2-BETA i386 >Organization: Vienna University Computer Center >Environment: System: FreeBSD korben 5.2-BETA FreeBSD 5.2-BETA #68: Sun Nov 30 23:02:39 CET 2003 le@korben:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/KORBEN i386 >Description: The multimedia/video playback chapter of the handbook is a little bit inconsistent about symbolic links when using devfs(5). Also add a note about "option USER_LDT" being only available on -stable. >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: --- handbook.diff begins here --- Index: en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/multimedia/chapter.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/local/bsdcvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/multimedia/chapter.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.68 diff -u -r1.68 chapter.sgml --- en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/multimedia/chapter.sgml 24 Nov 2003 03:57:43 -0000 1.68 +++ en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/multimedia/chapter.sgml 1 Dec 2003 22:18:56 -0000 @@ -783,8 +783,16 @@ On FreeBSD 5.X, which uses &man.devfs.5; there is a slightly different set of recommended links: - &prompt.root; ln -sf /dev/acd0c /dev/dvd -&prompt.root; ln -sf /dev/acd0c /dev/rdvd + &prompt.root; ln -sf /dev/acd0 /dev/dvd +&prompt.root; ln -sf /dev/acd0 /dev/rdvd + + Please note that due to the nature of &man.devfs.5;, + manually created links like these will not persist if you reboot + your system. In order to create the symbolic links automatically + whenever you boot your system, add the following lines to + /etc/devfs.conf: + link acd0 dvd +link acd0 rdvd Additionally, DVD decryption, which requires invoking special DVD-ROM functions, requires write permission on the DVD @@ -805,6 +813,11 @@ option CPU_ENABLE_SSE option USER_LDT + + + option USER_LDT is not available on + &os; 5.X. + To enhance the shared memory X11 interface, it is recommended that the values of some &man.sysctl.8; variables --- handbook.diff ends here --- >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 15:07:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B48F16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8F243FEA for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:07:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB1N7MB5030270; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:07:22 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:07:22 +0300 (MSK) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: Ceri Davies In-Reply-To: <20031201213201.GD2357@submonkey.net> Message-ID: <20031202020536.B30078@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <3FCBAC1A.5000006@potentialtech.com> <20031201213201.GD2357@submonkey.net> X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I want the result to end up in a different directory when Imake the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:07:33 -0000 On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: CD> > I guess this would apply to anything under the doc tree. CD> > CD> > When I run make, I tried this (because it seemed logical) CD> > make FORMATS=html-split DESTDIR=/path/where/i/want/it CD> > CD> > But the html files are still created in the same directory CD> > that I ran make. CD> > CD> > I assume there's some incantation that will put the CD> > results where I want them, but I've been unable to figure CD> > it out. CD> CD> make FORMATS=html-split DESTDIR=/path/where/i/want/it install clean I suppose Bill wants to _make_ outside original tree. This at least needs 'make obj', and many parts of /usr/doc tree are whining when they're build with r/o /usr/obj with 'make obj' as a prerequisite. As usual, lack of time is main cause of /me not sending patches ;) Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 15:27:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C13316A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.pelleg.org (gw.pelleg.org [205.201.13.235]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F2E43FBF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:27:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpelleg@cs.cmu.edu) Received: from lank.here (lank.wburn [192.168.3.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Client CN "gw.pelleg.org", Issuer "Dan Pelleg" (verified OK)) by gw.pelleg.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBCD5A4E; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:27:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by lank.here (Postfix, from userid 7675) id 0175576F; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:27:01 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16331.52805.200628.376535@localhost.localdomain> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:27:01 -0500 To: Bill Moran In-Reply-To: <3FCBADA3.8070909@potentialtech.com> References: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> <20031126234313.GZ90881@submonkey.net> <3FC53E21.9020709@potentialtech.com> <3FCBADA3.8070909@potentialtech.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid From: Dan Pelleg cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Linux users X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dan Pelleg List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:27:16 -0000 Bill Moran writes: > Dan Pelleg wrote: > > Bill Moran writes: > > > >>Ceri Davies wrote: > >> > >>>On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 03:25:37PM -0800, bri an wrote: > >>> > >> > >>>>I am a Work-study at a University. I have allot of > >>>>staff using Redhat. I have been working on helping > >>>>people move to Freebsd. I have been using it for a two > >>>>months. I would love to help in anyway. I am not very > >>>>versed in Freebsd, But I know how to RTFM. I can be a > >>>>great tester to see what the document needs. > >>> Not to make any point in particular, just to use this opportunity to put in the archives some things in ports which linux people find it odd aren't installed out of the box: - as was already said, bash - gmake - random stuff that is generally in fileutils/textutils/sh-utils (note that GNATS has a new port "coreutils" rolling them all into one, not yet committed) - seq - vim - emacs I don't know if there's a meta-port that includes them all or not, but it probably wouldn't hurt to have one. Speaking of which, instant-workstation is seemingly another thing that would make linux users from most distros feel at home, albeit a bloated and crowded home. Also, linux compatibility comes in handy for the odd game, browser plugin, or non-ported utility (sometimes it's faster to just grab a binary from a linux system and run it). In case someone is actually reading this and writing docs, this is where a pointer to the linux compat chapter in the handbook should come (reminding readers about USER_LDT and linuxprocfs). Just looking at the ports tree, I realize there are several variants of linux_base (RH, debian, and gentoo). Meaning one can have distro wars fully contained in FreeBSD :) From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 15:46:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD66216A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fultus.com (www.fultus.com [216.93.175.104]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01E543F75 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:46:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ovv@fultus.com) Received: from Aster (dsl081-053-195.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.53.195]) by mail.fultus.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CE78BAF5B4 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <06e601c3b865$47ded760$6601a8c0@Aster> From: "Oleg Vyushin" To: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:46:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Technical Documentation Library (new release) X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:46:02 -0000 As a service to the Open Source community, Fultus Corporation is providing free access to UP-TO-DATE FreeBSD Documentation Collection through our innovative eLibrary interface. Search and browse the entire collection from a single browser window! Fultus also provides free and up-to-date Linux and RedHat manuals in one convenient location. These resources are available at http://elibrary.fultus.com/technical/ ("Technical Literature" section of the Fultus eLibrary). Direct link to the FreeBSD Documentation Library: http://elibrary.fultus.com/freebsd/ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 16:12:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0FD16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBB143FE9 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (cs242719-195.austin.rr.com [24.27.19.195]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4249914694; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:12:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FCBD905.9080100@lonesome.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:12:53 -0600 From: Mark Linimon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030713 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Pelleg References: <20031126232537.24176.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> <20031126234313.GZ90881@submonkey.net> <3FC53E21.9020709@potentialtech.com> <3FCBADA3.8070909@potentialtech.com> <16331.52805.200628.376535@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <16331.52805.200628.376535@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: meta-ports (was: FreeBSD for Linux users) X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:12:47 -0000 > > >I don't know if there's a meta-port that includes them all or not, but it >probably wouldn't hurt to have one. > I keep thinking about advocating more meta-ports, and possibly even proposing a virtual category named "meta" (or some such) to group them in. Having such a virtual category would, IMHO, help any new FreeBSD user, not just ones coming over from a Linux distro. For example, I can easily imagine a new user wandering around, lost, in the many x11/* ports, and wondering where in the heck you're supposed to start. For example, one could argue that the the following could be included in such a category: textproc/docboook texptroc/docproj x11/XFree86-4 x11/gnome2 x11/gnome2-fifth-toe x11/kde There are others that could easily be included in this list, but I've picked the ones that IMHO represent the clearest argument for creating such a thing. >Speaking of which, instant-workstation >is seemingly another thing that would make linux users from most distros >feel at home, albeit a bloated and crowded home. > Well, instant-workstation could probably use some updating; I don't know if grog has really looked at it for a while. If there were the kind of virtual category discussed above, it might encourage more people to take a look at instant-workstation, and possibly creating metaports for their own favorite sets. (Mine would be 'port maintainance tools' including portupgrade and friends). mcl From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 18:25:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E7B16A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC9B43FBF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:25:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031202022526.SFKG1464.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:25:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBF812.6020202@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:25:22 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dmitry Morozovsky References: <3FCBAC1A.5000006@potentialtech.com> <20031201213201.GD2357@submonkey.net> <20031202020536.B30078@woozle.rinet.ru> In-Reply-To: <20031202020536.B30078@woozle.rinet.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I want the result to end up in a different directory when Imake the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:25:25 -0000 Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > > CD> > I guess this would apply to anything under the doc tree. > CD> > > CD> > When I run make, I tried this (because it seemed logical) > CD> > make FORMATS=html-split DESTDIR=/path/where/i/want/it > CD> > > CD> > But the html files are still created in the same directory > CD> > that I ran make. > CD> > > CD> > I assume there's some incantation that will put the > CD> > results where I want them, but I've been unable to figure > CD> > it out. > CD> > CD> make FORMATS=html-split DESTDIR=/path/where/i/want/it install clean > > I suppose Bill wants to _make_ outside original tree. Actually, Ceri answered the question. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 18:42:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D8516A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925C543FBF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031202022854.ZHVN4878.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCBF8E6.6010208@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:28:54 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> In-Reply-To: <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 02:42:54 -0000 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Bill Moran wrote: > >>In all seriousness, I'm not totally confident with docbook >>yet, so suggestions >>on all levels are appreciated. (at least I got make to >>stop complaining ;) > > hy, i had a look at your patch and i have following suggestions: > > line 27: &man.send-pr.1; which creates a link to the > send-pr manualpage. > > line 45: the dot should not be inside the apostrophes. > > line 48: Execute the following commands as root. <- shouldn't > this end with ':' instead of '.'? > > line 47+48: mark ssmtp port up with > mail/ssmtp > > line 51: i think it is common practice in the handbook > to propose "make install clean" for installations. > > line 53: i would markup ssmtp with application tag > > line 26+32: why is there a different identing? as far > as i can see, both lines are on same level. > > line 56-60: what about indenting here? > > line 71: s/ssmpt/ssmtp > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > > in my opinion your patch is too long. i think the same > effect could be achieved by 30% of the lines. you do not > need to do such intense arguing why to use. > for me 3 lines, a note that there is a port, that allows > users to avoid sendmail, when they want to use send-pr > would suffice. > > i also think that installing & configuring ssmtp is a trivial task, > is there really a need to donate a whole page to this? > > what about something like this: > > If you just want to pass your email to your isp's mail relay, > and want to avoid installing a mail transfer agent, try role="package">mail/ssmtp, which is a easy to set up > program, that fulfills this task.. > > > dont feel offended, this is just my view. Not offended. All good points. While I can't argue your 4-line patch logic, where would it go that it would be discoverable information? The advantage of my patch is that it creates a section that a user will be able to easily find. I also suspect (although I could be wrong) that the section I created may be expanded to explain how to achieve the same goal using sendmail, which (to me) is a good idea, since sendmail comes with FreeBSD. I'm not arguing "I'm right, you're wrong." But you have good points that make me wonder what the best way to handle this is, so I'm throwing back more information to see if a consesnsus can be reached. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 20:03:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A2316A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from tatiana.utanet.at (tatiana.utanet.at [213.90.36.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710A343FBF; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from paris.utanet.at ([213.90.36.7]) by tatiana.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQuis-0000Km-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:32:46 +0100 Received: from dsl-245-165.utaonline.at ([212.152.245.165] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by paris.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQuir-0000AV-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:32:46 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id E08086E1; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:33:49 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:33:49 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20031201203349.GA10098@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> <20031201143728.39531f1b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201195835.GC1117@jenny.daemon.li> <20031201150742.446de66e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031201150742.446de66e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-DNSBL-Warning: listed at list.dsbl.org (http://dsbl.org/listing?ip=212.152.245.165) cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:03:56 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: [...] > The events section should be > moved over under the Project News section. I think that conferences > should be considered 'Project News', don't you? :) i agree here. > Are > we on the same wavelink now? yes :) -josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 21:37:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF7F16A4F3 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9135443FA3 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:37:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HP900MR469YEA@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de> for FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:37:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:37:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) hB25b9sU000797; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:37:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2AE29; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:37:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A2C0B461C; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:37:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:37:08 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> To: Josef El-Rayes Message-id: <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary="GPJrCs/72TxItFYR"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 05:37:13 -0000 --GPJrCs/72TxItFYR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Bill Moran wrote: > > In all seriousness, I'm not totally confident with docbook=20 > > yet, so suggestions > > on all levels are appreciated. (at least I got make to=20 > > stop complaining ;) >=20 > hy, i had a look at your patch and i have following suggestions: >=20 > line 27: &man.send-pr.1; which creates a link to the > send-pr manualpage. >=20 > line 45: the dot should not be inside the apostrophes. >=20 > line 48: Execute the following commands as root. <- shouldn't > this end with ':' instead of '.'? >=20 > line 47+48: mark ssmtp port up with > mail/ssmtp >=20 > line 51: i think it is common practice in the handbook > to propose "make install clean" for installations. >=20 > line 53: i would markup ssmtp with application tag >=20 > line 26+32: why is there a different identing? as far > as i can see, both lines are on same level. >=20 > line 56-60: what about indenting here? >=20 > line 71: s/ssmpt/ssmtp >=20 > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". >=20 Actually it is 'manual page'. - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --GPJrCs/72TxItFYR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zCUDbHYXjKDtmC0RAt5LAKDlYJuMHgbBOZT4+l4K+XXU7XFgygCcCZWg SnGdK0FseZa0ZJy4dTkQd2A= =Ut6n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GPJrCs/72TxItFYR-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 23:06:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F7B16A4CE; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78FEB43F85; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:06:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB275u6q000809; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:05:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 02:05:50 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li Message-Id: <20031202020550.2bc4d544.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031201203349.GA10098@jenny.daemon.li> References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201193002.GA1117@jenny.daemon.li> <20031201143728.39531f1b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201195835.GC1117@jenny.daemon.li> <20031201150742.446de66e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031201203349.GA10098@jenny.daemon.li> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 07:06:05 -0000 On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:33:49 +0100 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: > [...] > > The events section should be > > moved over under the Project News section. I think that conferences > > should be considered 'Project News', don't you? :) > > i agree here. > > > Are > > we on the same wavelink now? > > yes :) Great, then if there are no more comments about this particular patch, I'll just commit tomorrow morning. :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 00:59:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B471816A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from taro.utanet.at (taro.utanet.at [213.90.36.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CCE43F93 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from plenty.utanet.at ([213.90.36.9]) by taro.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AR6NG-0005ZQ-00; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:59:14 +0100 Received: from dsl-23-136.utaonline.at ([81.189.23.136] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by plenty.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AR6NG-000641-00; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:59:14 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id C6020126; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Christian Brueffer Message-ID: <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:59:16 -0000 Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > Actually it is 'manual page'. i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. (http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). -josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 01:17:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC3116A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from tatiana.utanet.at (tatiana.utanet.at [213.90.36.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8B643FF3 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from pam.utanet.at ([213.90.36.6]) by tatiana.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AR6eW-0006ri-00; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:17:04 +0100 Received: from dsl-23-136.utaonline.at ([81.189.23.136] helo=jenny.daemon.li) by pam.utanet.at with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AR6eV-0002H0-00; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:17:03 +0100 Received: by jenny.daemon.li (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 4B8C0126; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:18:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:18:04 +0100 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Bill Moran Message-ID: <20031202091804.GB269@jenny.daemon.li> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <3FCBF8E6.6010208@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FCBF8E6.6010208@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:17:08 -0000 Bill Moran wrote: > Not offended. All good points. > > While I can't argue your 4-line patch logic, where would > it go that it > would be discoverable information? The advantage of my > patch is that > it creates a section that a user will be able to easily > find. I also > suspect (although I could be wrong) that the section I > created may be > expanded to explain how to achieve the same goal using > sendmail, which > (to me) is a good idea, since sendmail comes with > FreeBSD. should this really be covered by the handbook? isn't the handbook a resource for freebsd specific topics? explaining how to use xyz-MTA for forwarding mails to another ISP is not the task of the handbook, this is covered by xyz' docs. greets, josef From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 03:20:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1146A16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD8B843FE5 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2BKEFY052412 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB2BKEFX052411; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:20:14 -0800 (PST) Resent-Message-Id: <200312021120.hB2BKEFX052411@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Wolfram Schneider Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3415A16A4CF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D84143FA3 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@FreeBSD.org) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) hB2BDOqx077857 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:13:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost)hB2BDOdW077856 for FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:13:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch@FreeBSD.org) Received: from kuckuck.panke.de.freebsd.org (kuckuck.panke.de.freebsd.org [10.0.0.3])hB2BAfcm000243 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:10:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by kuckuck.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.12.10/8.11.6) id hB2BBMub002127; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:11:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch) Message-Id: <200312021111.hB2BBMub002127@kuckuck.panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:11:22 +0100 (CET) From: Wolfram Schneider To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/59900: out of date README.txt and .message files at ftp.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Wolfram Schneider List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:20:17 -0000 >Number: 59900 >Category: docs >Synopsis: out of date README.txt and .message files at ftp.freebsd.org >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: update >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Dec 02 03:20:14 PST 2003 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Wolfram Schneider >Release: >Organization: >Environment: Many README.txt and .message files at the FreeBSD ftp server ftp.freebsd.org are out of date - ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ mention dead releases "3.5.1-RELEASE" and "4.2-RELEASE" - ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/README.TXT claimes that 4.7 is the latest release: [...] The official FreeBSD releases. The latest releases are: releases/i386/4.7-RELEASE releases/alpha/4.7-RELEASE [...] - ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/ alot of dead and no longer available FreeBSD releases: These are packages for the i386 architecture. Here are brief descriptions of each subdirectory. packages-2.2-stable: The last snapshot of packages for FreeBSD-2.2-stable, built in January 1999. packages-2.2.8: Packages for FreeBSD 2.2.8-release. packages-3.5-release: Packages for FreeBSD 3.5-release. packages-4-stable: Packages for FreeBSD-4-stable. Updated weekly. packages-4.1-release: Packages for FreeBSD 4.1-release. packages-4.1.1-release: Packages for FreeBSD 4.1.1-release. packages-4.2-release: Packages for FreeBSD 4.2-release. packages-4.3-release: Packages for FreeBSD 4.3-release. packages-4.4-release: Packages for FreeBSD 4.4-release. *packages-5-current: Packages for FreeBSD-5-current. Updated weekly. (* - packages-5-current is currently unavailable .. sorry for the inconvenience) >Description: >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 03:58:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D251816A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3529043FE3; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ceri@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (ceri@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2BwuFY054721; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ceri@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from ceri@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB2Bwugu054717; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ceri) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: Ceri Davies Message-Id: <200312021158.hB2Bwugu054717@freefall.freebsd.org> To: ceri@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, kuriyama@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/59900: out of date README.txt and .message files at ftp.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:58:57 -0000 Synopsis: out of date README.txt and .message files at ftp.freebsd.org Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->kuriyama Responsible-Changed-By: ceri Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Dec 2 03:58:30 PST 2003 Responsible-Changed-Why: I think kuriyama is best placed to deal with this one. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=59900 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 08:00:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7445A16A4D1 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta3.adelphia.net (mta3.adelphia.net [68.168.78.181]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E7D43FBD for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:00:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031202155653.RBHJ4878.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:56:53 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCCB644.500@potentialtech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:56:52 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <3FCBF8E6.6010208@potentialtech.com> <20031202091804.GB269@jenny.daemon.li> In-Reply-To: <20031202091804.GB269@jenny.daemon.li> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:00:31 -0000 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Bill Moran wrote: > >>Not offended. All good points. >> >>While I can't argue your 4-line patch logic, where would >>it go that it >>would be discoverable information? The advantage of my >>patch is that >>it creates a section that a user will be able to easily >>find. I also >>suspect (although I could be wrong) that the section I >>created may be >>expanded to explain how to achieve the same goal using >>sendmail, which >>(to me) is a good idea, since sendmail comes with >>FreeBSD. > > should this really be covered by the handbook? isn't > the handbook a resource for freebsd specific topics? I belive the handbook should have this section. There are many circumstances where a FreeBSD machine will need to do mail in a "send-only" capacity. Users should be able to find documentation on how to make it work. You're right, technically, this section should explain how to set up sendmail to function in this capacity. However, I believe that sendmail is difficult to properly configure for this use, and overkill anyway. > explaining how to use xyz-MTA for forwarding mails to another ISP > is not the task of the handbook, this is covered by xyz' docs. I worry that this is a case of, "experienced FreeBSD user's can't understand why documentation this simple is necessary." I feel that it is necessary. Perhaps the handbook is not the correct place for this? I'm open to suggestions, but the handbook was the best place I could find. I'm incorporating many of your other suggestions, and I'll post updated files to my site shortly. http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/handbook/ -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 08:22:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0DD16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D06D43FE5 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2GMJ6q002324; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:22:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:22:17 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li Message-Id: <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:22:26 -0000 On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 Josef El-Rayes wrote: > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > > > Actually it is 'manual page'. > > i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as > bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out > that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. > > (http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 08:38:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9928B16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:38:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EABEE43FF2; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:38:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPA00D850ECKG@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) hB2GRlsU023845; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E05F1D; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:47 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 20FB2461C; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:45 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> To: Tom Rhodes Message-id: <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:38:14 -0000 --VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:22:17AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 > Josef El-Rayes wrote: >=20 > > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > >=20 > > > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > >=20 > > > Actually it is 'manual page'. > >=20 > > i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as > > bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out > > that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. > >=20 > > (http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). >=20 > It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man > page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this > is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) >=20 Of course. What I meant to say was 'manual page is what we usually use for our documentation' :-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zL2BbHYXjKDtmC0RAn0xAKDIf5mz0thSPazn/a/ZQyCUCcNWxACgxvJ1 IbyXiAE+zsLT5+8gTM1aoF8= =nqxX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 08:44:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47D416A4CF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C288243F3F for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:44:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2GiM6q002391; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:44:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:44:20 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Christian Brueffer Message-Id: <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:44:27 -0000 On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:45 +0100 Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:22:17AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 > > Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > > > > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > > > > > > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > > > > > > > Actually it is 'manual page'. > > > > > > i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as > > > bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out > > > that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. > > > > > > (http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). > > > > It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man > > page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this > > is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) > > > > Of course. What I meant to say was 'manual page is what we usually use > for our documentation' :-) I like manual page as well. This was probably keramida's fault now that I think about it... :P -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 09:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D75216A4CF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9849543F85 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:12:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lowell@world.std.com) Received: from be-well.no-ip.com ([66.30.200.37]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003120217120701300dth5he>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:12:07 +0000 Received: by be-well.no-ip.com (Postfix, from userid 1147) id E123B76; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:12:06 -0500 (EST) Sender: lowell@be-well.ilk.org To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org References: <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 02 Dec 2003 12:12:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <44he0jcffd.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:12:08 -0000 trhodes@FreeBSD.org (Tom Rhodes) writes: > It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man > page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this > is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) Almost all of the current usage in the Handbook is "manual page." There are a few uses of "man page" and none of "manpage". From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 09:14:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D6516A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [68.168.78.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043F443FDD; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:14:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031202170201.UHCF4878.mta13.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:02:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3FCCC589.8040700@potentialtech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:02:01 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:14:25 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:45 +0100 > Christian Brueffer wrote: > >>On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:22:17AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 >>>Josef El-Rayes wrote: >>> >>>>Christian Brueffer wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: >>>> >>>>>>line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". >>>> >>>>>Actually it is 'manual page'. >>>> >>>>i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as >>>>bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out >>>>that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. >>>> >>>>(http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). >>> >>>It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man >>>page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this >>>is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) >> >>Of course. What I meant to say was 'manual page is what we usually use >>for our documentation' :-) > > I like manual page as well. This was probably keramida's fault now > that I think about it... :P This looks authoritative: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/writing-style-word-list.html ... and I'd like my bikeshed pink, to match my Huffy ;) -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 09:46:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B7616A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD5843FDF; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:46:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPA00ECS3Q85C@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) hB2HdisU005211; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29431D; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 77866461C; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:43 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> To: Tom Rhodes Message-id: <20031202173943.GF71732@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=Y1L3PTX8QE8cb2T+; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:46:33 -0000 --Y1L3PTX8QE8cb2T+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:44:20AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:45 +0100 > Christian Brueffer wrote: >=20 > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:22:17AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 > > > Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > >=20 > > > > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > > >=20 > > > > > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > > > >=20 > > > > > Actually it is 'manual page'. > > > >=20 > > > > i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as > > > > bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out > > > > that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. > > > >=20 > > > > (http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). > > >=20 > > > It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man > > > page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this > > > is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) > > >=20 > >=20 > > Of course. What I meant to say was 'manual page is what we usually use > > for our documentation' :-) >=20 > I like manual page as well. This was probably keramida's fault now > that I think about it... :P >=20 Certainly. When is he about to return anyway? Maybe he can teach us how to process PRs with military discipline ;-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --Y1L3PTX8QE8cb2T+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zM5fbHYXjKDtmC0RAhWwAKDzPb5BjEbhjk8Eq3DWS6oRz3zX0ACgpICq eCGj+8oQuebMFYYwi2VcTik= =DlEE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Y1L3PTX8QE8cb2T+-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 10:30:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFD316A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323CA43F85 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2IUQ6q002635; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:30:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:30:24 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Christian Brueffer Message-Id: <20031202133024.7496f86b.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202173943.GF71732@unixpages.org> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202173943.GF71732@unixpages.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:30:31 -0000 On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:39:43 +0100 Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:44:20AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:27:45 +0100 > > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:22:17AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:00:21 +0100 > > > > Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > > > > > > > > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:18:25PM +0100, Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > line 72: it is "manpage" not "man page". > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it is 'manual page'. > > > > > > > > > > i prefer too, the expression 'manual page', but as > > > > > bill used the short form, i just wanted to point out > > > > > that o'reilly writes it 'manpage' and not 'man page'. > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#M). > > > > > > > > It always depends on who you talk to too. Some people say man > > > > page, some use manual page, some use manpage. Trust me, this > > > > is a bikeshed you don't want to step into... :) > > > > > > > > > > Of course. What I meant to say was 'manual page is what we usually use > > > for our documentation' :-) > > > > I like manual page as well. This was probably keramida's fault now > > that I think about it... :P > > > > Certainly. When is he about to return anyway? Maybe he can teach us > how to process PRs with military discipline ;-) Not sure when his term is up, but hopefully soon. It will be a lot of fun to play with him again... :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 10:55:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856D516A4CF; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:55:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BF143FBD; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blackend@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (blackend@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2ItpFY053470; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blackend@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from blackend@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB2ItpT7053466; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blackend) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Fonvieille Message-Id: <200312021855.hB2ItpT7053466@freefall.freebsd.org> To: blackend@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, blackend@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/59879: [PATCH] handbook/multimedia: clarify 5.x behaviour wrt to devfs X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:55:52 -0000 Synopsis: [PATCH] handbook/multimedia: clarify 5.x behaviour wrt to devfs Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->blackend Responsible-Changed-By: blackend Responsible-Changed-When: Tue Dec 2 10:55:29 PST 2003 Responsible-Changed-Why: I'll take this one. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=59879 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 10:56:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5894516A4D2; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8954743FA3; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20031202185632014007pjvse>; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:56:32 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2IuDTG010501; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB2Iu8rr010500; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:56:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net> <20031201160628.3df5ff8e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:56:08 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20031201160628.3df5ff8e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> (Tom Rhodes's message of "Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:06:28 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:56:40 -0000 Tom Rhodes writes: > The key word here is 'mentions', and the idea here is not to just > mention, but link to information. But that is a BAD idea, IMO, given the information that you propose be linked to and where you propose to place the links. The key word was "user"; the information is not appropriate for users who are not developers. It's worse PR than letting them think that the web site is incomplete, IMO. It also discourages the writing of something appropriate for them. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 11:13:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1632616A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:13:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B590043F93; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2JD56q002747; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:13:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:13:03 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Message-Id: <20031202141303.7101cbb4.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20031201133128.1eee8ecf.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <6cad6cjo0q.d6c@mail.comcast.net> <20031201160628.3df5ff8e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: Restructure of the front page X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:13:23 -0000 On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:56:08 -0800 underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) wrote: > Tom Rhodes writes: > > > The key word here is 'mentions', and the idea here is not to just > > mention, but link to information. > > But that is a BAD idea, IMO, given the information that you propose be > linked to and where you propose to place the links. The key word was I proposed to make it easier for people to find information applicable to thier specific environment. > "user"; the information is not appropriate for users who are not > developers. It's worse PR than letting them think that the web site So you HAVE to be a developer to use Alpha, AMD64, or a Sun UltraSparc? I strongly disagree with this, in fact I know several people with Sun machines who are not developers. They use them at work and they use them at home. > is incomplete, IMO. It also discourages the writing of something > appropriate for them. > Would you prefer the 'platforms' information be moved down? I have other changes I wish to make and I feel that after you get the 'whole picture' you would agree with them... -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:18:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC1516A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from seaholm.caamora.com.au (seaholm.caamora.com.au [203.7.226.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D3E43FBF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by seaholm.caamora.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id hB2KHWA27826; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:17:32 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <20031203071732.52784@caamora.com.au> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:17:32 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: Bill Moran References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <3FCBF8E6.6010208@potentialtech.com> <20031202091804.GB269@jenny.daemon.li> <3FCCB644.500@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <3FCCB644.500@potentialtech.com>; from Bill Moran on Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:56:52AM -0500 Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:18:19 -0000 On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:56:52AM -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > Josef El-Rayes wrote: > > Bill Moran wrote: supportive argument deleted for brevity... > I belive the handbook should have this section. There are many > circumstances where a FreeBSD machine will need to do mail > in a "send-only" capacity. Users should be able to find documentation > on how to make it work. > > You're right, technically, this section should explain how to set > up sendmail to function in this capacity. However, I believe that > sendmail is difficult to properly configure for this use, and > overkill anyway. > > > explaining how to use xyz-MTA for forwarding mails to another ISP > > is not the task of the handbook, this is covered by xyz' docs. > > I worry that this is a case of, "experienced FreeBSD user's can't > understand why documentation this simple is necessary." I feel > that it is necessary. i have been using freebsd since v2.0.5-release and my internetworking backbone stopped at v2.2.7-release and is still running it very reliably (i do see the need to upgrade) i do have significant learning difficulties that keep me glued to teh documentation every time i need to make a change. no matter how minor, how system re-defining. maybe the average new users learning experience is not as acute as mine, or as ongoing as mine, or as long lived it is nonetheless an acute period in thier familiarisation process and it needs to be supported. leaving such documentation out will significantly impact the 'quality of life' and the 'quality of installation and system bedding' this last bit is teh most intense period that most (if not all) newcomers go through on teh way to becoming "experienced FreeBSD user's". it is teh bit that defines who becomes a "experienced FreeBSD user's" and those whole with churn through to teh next cab on teh rank, ummm favourite operating system while the impact may not be immediate it will be profound and leave scars on teh project as a whole for a very very long time. with much thanks to teh existing document manglers for doing a good job in teh face of such resistance. kind regards jonathan -- ================================================================ powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system ==== === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ==== From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 13:06:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C43F16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5305943FBD; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:06:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2L6g6q003080; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:06:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:06:40 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:06:48 -0000 Greetings yet again, Last night my brain just went in several different directions on how well this could turn out. And yet, there is always that lingering thought of how bad this could end up if I'm not careful. Taking a few comments on the list and off, as well as a few of my own ideas, i've crafted another patch. This patch is rough around the edges and not commit-ready, even though it does build. My goal with this one was to throw out some ideas, sort of get the ball rolling. So, honest opinions are very welcome here... This patch will: o Break up the support area into two different types. Multi-language and English (since the site is in English anyway). This will add a link to the translated documents on the front page. With this I tried to be fair and place all the multi-language and english-only options in two categories. This may need another look-over. o Takes a stab at the Vendors area, without any modification. The vendors link(s) should probably go under our Software or 'Getting FreeBSD' areas. But this can be argued. o Adds the upcoming events link under a Community section. It could be argued that local user groups should go here in place of under Support. But a broader opinion on that would be nice... Comments please... :) -- Tom Rhodes --- index.xsl.old Tue Dec 2 15:14:14 2003 +++ index.xsl Tue Dec 2 15:51:00 2003 @@ -128,11 +128,19 @@ Support
- · Mailing lists
+ · FreeBSD Mailing Lists
+ · Commercial Support
· Newsgroups
+

+ +

+ + Multi-language Support +
+ · Translated Documentation
+ · Country Specific Mailing lists
· User Groups
· Web Resources
- · Security

@@ -171,6 +179,12 @@ · Donations Liaison
· Current Donations
· List of needs
+

+ +

Community +
+ · Upcoming Events
+ · Developer Home Pages

-- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 14:53:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E26F16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3A04402D; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:52:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (cs242719-195.austin.rr.com [24.27.19.195]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABEF146AD; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:52:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:51:48 -0600 From: Mark Linimon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030713 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:53:19 -0000 I don't have too much of a problem with any of this, but now that I read over the live page, I think we've got the security advisories too far down the page. Suggestions? Also I might suggest switching the order of 'software' and 'platform support', since 'software' is the more general of the two. Perhaps 'platform support' should even be a subhead of 'software'? I'm just brainstorming here. I want to add, however, that "Development" looks pretty close to the Right Thing for me, and not just because part of it was my idea :-), it just "looks right" now. There's plenty of other work to do on this stuff IMHO. mcl From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 15:16:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898F416A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F00B43FE0; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2NGY6q003372; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:16:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:16:31 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Mark Linimon Message-Id: <20031202181631.781138de.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:16:38 -0000 On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:51:48 -0600 Mark Linimon wrote: > I don't have too much of a problem with any of this, but now that I read > over the live page, I think we've got the security advisories too far down > the page. Suggestions? I like it on the front page for the simple fact that it makes users readily aware of the 'latest' security announcements. But a good argument here would be "We have two lists dedicated to security and a portion of the site dedicated to security. Should it be included on the front page?" While they both seem to me as a matter of preference, I'm open to suggestions as well. Move it somewhere else, just link to the page, or ... ? > > Also I might suggest switching the order of 'software' and 'platform > support', > since 'software' is the more general of the two. Perhaps 'platform support' > should even be a subhead of 'software'? I'm just brainstorming here. These are good ideas indeed. I'm partial to either or so lets get a few other thoughts on it. > > I want to add, however, that "Development" looks pretty close to the > Right Thing for me, and not just because part of it was my idea :-), > it just "looks right" now. I like it. A thought I had was to seperate the development projects into two seperate parts. Projects as part of the FreeBSD Project, and outside projects that may be of interest to users... > > There's plenty of other work to do on this stuff IMHO. I'll drink to that. I'm only worried that we, *I*, might get carried away here. While I'm attempting to seperate the links into more logical groupings and making it easier for first time or occasional visitors to locate information, this could quickly lead to an intimidating front page. But that is what we have the ever impressive 'More?' option. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 15:21:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF03F16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2D343F3F; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:21:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (cs242719-195.austin.rr.com [24.27.19.195]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9D7146AD; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:21:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FCD1E48.8010205@lonesome.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:20:40 -0600 From: Mark Linimon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030713 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> <20031202181631.781138de.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202181631.781138de.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:21:42 -0000 > > >While I'm attempting to seperate the links >into more logical groupings and making it easier for first time >or occasional visitors to locate information, this could quickly >lead to an intimidating front page. But that is what we have the >ever impressive 'More?' option. > Right. I've got ideas about making the second-level pages a lot more useful and consistent. IMHO they've gotten less attention than the main page. (It's that darned 'internal' page that really sets my teeth on edge, it's just become a catch-all ...) mcl From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 15:31:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF5AF16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DE643FAF; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPA00IDXJK8C9@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) hB2NLisU012318; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Postfix) with ESMTP id B431A29; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BF15F461C; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:42 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:41 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> To: Tom Rhodes Message-id: <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=Y+xroYBkGM9OatJL; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> cc: FreeBSD-www@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:31:46 -0000 --Y+xroYBkGM9OatJL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:06:40PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > Greetings yet again, >=20 > Last night my brain just went in several different directions on > how well this could turn out. And yet, there is always that lingering > thought of how bad this could end up if I'm not careful. Taking a > few comments on the list and off, as well as a few of my own ideas, > i've crafted another patch. >=20 > This patch is rough around the edges and not commit-ready, even > though it does build. My goal with this one was to throw out some > ideas, sort of get the ball rolling. So, honest opinions are very > welcome here... This patch will: >=20 > o Break up the support area into two different types. Multi-language > and English (since the site is in English anyway). This will add > a link to the translated documents on the front page. With this > I tried to be fair and place all the multi-language and english-only > options in two categories. This may need another look-over. >=20 > o Takes a stab at the Vendors area, without any modification. The > vendors link(s) should probably go under our Software or 'Getting > FreeBSD' areas. But this can be argued. >=20 > o Adds the upcoming events link under a Community section. It could > be argued that local user groups should go here in place of under > Support. But a broader opinion on that would be nice... >=20 > Comments please... :) >=20 I like it, but I think there are still way too many links in the sidebar. As you already notes, the 'Vendors' section actually belongs to the 'Software' section. 'Documentation' and 'Support' could be consolidated into a 'Resources' section. The 'Multi-language support' section is not needed, IMHO. I think people would expect documentation in a given language on the web pages of that specific language, http://www.freebsd.org/de, for example. Maybe we should put the links to language specific web pages in a more prominent position (and list all available languages on the front page). In general, we should unclutter the side bar. IMHO, NetBSD and OpenBSD have done a good job in this regard. 4 or 5 big subsections which roughly categorize the links to subsection pages, which can contain all the other stuff. BTW, thanks for taking on this task, Tom :-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --Y+xroYBkGM9OatJL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zR6FbHYXjKDtmC0RAmQKAJ97/F/a0M1hXAkm0NK2RzWd7HIV9wCgtHlo IABn3B7he8vKxgDeCr1QMjs= =xw90 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Y+xroYBkGM9OatJL-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 15:31:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9588B16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1954143FAF; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPA00J7AJSRTM@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) hB2NQosU012609; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CFE1D; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6FED54308; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:50 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon Message-id: <20031202232650.GH71732@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary="a8sldprk+5E/pDEv"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> cc: Tom Rhodes cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-www@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:31:48 -0000 --a8sldprk+5E/pDEv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:51:48PM -0600, Mark Linimon wrote: > I don't have too much of a problem with any of this, but now that I read > over the live page, I think we've got the security advisories too far down > the page. Suggestions? >=20 > Also I might suggest switching the order of 'software' and 'platform=20 > support', > since 'software' is the more general of the two. Perhaps 'platform suppo= rt' > should even be a subhead of 'software'? I'm just brainstorming here. >=20 > I want to add, however, that "Development" looks pretty close to the > Right Thing for me, and not just because part of it was my idea :-), > it just "looks right" now. >=20 > There's plenty of other work to do on this stuff IMHO. >=20 I think the 'Contributing to FreeBSD' link is misplaced in the 'Development' section. It implies, that you have to be a developer, to support FreeBSD. That's exactly the thinking we want to prevent :-) However, I don't have a better suggestion at the moment, maybe sleep will bring some ideas. - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --a8sldprk+5E/pDEv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zR+6bHYXjKDtmC0RApoMAKDjeX6XB2KshhJQTW010JqbSzBmlwCg9q3Z 8Jb5UPLFuWRzuR5mBh0iDBM= =sDC8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a8sldprk+5E/pDEv-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 17:47:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE7616A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C2943F85; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sean@nxad.com) Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A50DB21067; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:46:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:46:06 -0800 From: Sean Chittenden To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20031203014606.GB81503@perrin.nxad.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0F1p//8PRICkK4MW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 01:47:21 -0000 --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > o Takes a stab at the Vendors area, without any modification. The > vendors link(s) should probably go under our Software or 'Getting > FreeBSD' areas. But this can be argued. In my experience, one of the areas that FreeBSD has consistently been dinged in the "initial impressions by management" department is the lack of an obvious link to a list of vendors that provide commercial support. Why? Vendors doesn't translate into commercial support with some folk for some reason. There's nothing on the main page that references /commercial/ and I think it'd be helpful to those evaluating the use of FreeBSD. It's a trivial change, but I think helps. Attached patch reoganizes and makes the /commercial/ page more concise and alphabetizes the list of vendor categories. The last thing that I think the commerical section is *desparately* in need of, is a list of vendors that provide long term, 24/7 support. It's non-obvious that there is a bunch of companies that provide that with our current setup and this is consistently one of the most important aspects of commercial support for people deciding to use FreeBSD. I don't have an answer for this at this time, but think that it needs immediate attention before the 5.3 release (5.2's too close). Anyway, /commercial/ needs a nice professional touch to it and to move away from some of the flashy, high-energy verbiage that's in there now to something more solid and grounded in its tone, but that's for another day. PS meta keywords could be brought into the 21st century. "free unix download stable fast performance smp" would be better than some of the entries listed. -sc -- Sean Chittenden --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch Index: index.xsl =================================================================== RCS file: /home/dcvs/www/en/index.xsl,v retrieving revision 1.84 diff -u -r1.84 index.xsl --- index.xsl 2 Dec 2003 20:12:28 -0000 1.84 +++ index.xsl 3 Dec 2003 01:46:32 -0000 @@ -128,6 +128,7 @@ Support
+ · Commercial
· Mailing lists
· Newsgroups
· User Groups
@@ -158,8 +159,10 @@ · Contributing to FreeBSD

-

Vendors -
+

+ + Vendors +
· Software
· Hardware
· Consulting
Index: commercial/commercial.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /home/dcvs/www/en/commercial/commercial.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.34 diff -u -r1.34 commercial.sgml --- commercial/commercial.sgml 20 Apr 2002 14:41:47 -0000 1.34 +++ commercial/commercial.sgml 3 Dec 2003 01:46:32 -0000 @@ -9,42 +9,54 @@ &header; -&vendorintroduction; -

- Please note that the inclusion of vendors in our list - does not signify our endorsement of their products or services. + The power, flexibility, and reliability of FreeBSD + attract a wide variety of users and vendors. + In addition to our gallery page, + showcasing many of our users, + below is a list of vendors offering commercial products, services, + and/or consulting for FreeBSD.

    -
  • Software Vendors - From audio players and network drivers to commercial databases, - you will find a variety of industrial strength software for FreeBSD. - You can see the alphabetical list, - or, if you prefer, - view it by categories. -

    • - -
  • Hardware Vendors - Need specialized tools or just browsing for equipment? - These companies may have what you need! -

    • -
  • Consulting Services Whether you are just starting out with FreeBSD, or need to complete a large project, - a consultant or two might be your answer. + hiring consultants might be your answer. You can see the alphabetical list, or, if you prefer, view it by categories.

    • +
  • Hardware Vendors + Need specialized tools, looking to buy a new desktop, or to fill a cage with rack mount servers that come with FreeBSD pre-installed? + These companies may have what you need! +

    • +
  • Miscellaneous Vendors Books and accessories you just cannot live without!

    • +
  • Software Vendors + From audio players, network drivers, to commercial databases, + FreeBSD has a wide variety of industrial strength software available. + You can see the alphabetical list, + or, if you prefer, + view it by categories. +

    • +
+ +

+ If your company supports a FreeBSD related product, service, consulting, or support + that should be added to this page, please send email + to www@FreeBSD.org + and let us know! + Submissions should be in HTML and a medium-sized paragraph in length. + Please note that the inclusion of vendors in our list + does not signify our endorsement of their products or services. +

&footer; --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 18:01:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C455E16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE9F43F3F; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:01:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB321N6q003801; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:01:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:01:17 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Christian Brueffer Message-Id: <20031202210117.619c2170.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202232650.GH71732@unixpages.org> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCD1784.90605@lonesome.com> <20031202232650.GH71732@unixpages.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Mark Linimon cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:01:25 -0000 On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:26:50 +0100 Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:51:48PM -0600, Mark Linimon wrote: > > I don't have too much of a problem with any of this, but now that I read > > over the live page, I think we've got the security advisories too far down > > the page. Suggestions? > > > > Also I might suggest switching the order of 'software' and 'platform > > support', > > since 'software' is the more general of the two. Perhaps 'platform support' > > should even be a subhead of 'software'? I'm just brainstorming here. > > > > I want to add, however, that "Development" looks pretty close to the > > Right Thing for me, and not just because part of it was my idea :-), > > it just "looks right" now. > > > > There's plenty of other work to do on this stuff IMHO. > > > > I think the 'Contributing to FreeBSD' link is misplaced in the 'Development' > section. It implies, that you have to be a developer, to support FreeBSD. > That's exactly the thinking we want to prevent :-) > > However, I don't have a better suggestion at the moment, maybe sleep > will bring some ideas. Well, we do have the donations link up there. We also have project websites for tasks like C99, busdma, SMP and other things. If they had a 'call for help' on them (indeed the task list should be enough), perhaps that would be a route to go. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 18:10:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1005216A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB7043F93; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB32AV6q003832; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:10:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:10:30 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Christian Brueffer Message-Id: <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:10:35 -0000 On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:41 +0100 Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 04:06:40PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Greetings yet again, > > > > Last night my brain just went in several different directions on > > how well this could turn out. And yet, there is always that lingering > > thought of how bad this could end up if I'm not careful. Taking a > > few comments on the list and off, as well as a few of my own ideas, > > i've crafted another patch. > > > > This patch is rough around the edges and not commit-ready, even > > though it does build. My goal with this one was to throw out some > > ideas, sort of get the ball rolling. So, honest opinions are very > > welcome here... This patch will: > > > > o Break up the support area into two different types. Multi-language > > and English (since the site is in English anyway). This will add > > a link to the translated documents on the front page. With this > > I tried to be fair and place all the multi-language and english-only > > options in two categories. This may need another look-over. > > > > o Takes a stab at the Vendors area, without any modification. The > > vendors link(s) should probably go under our Software or 'Getting > > FreeBSD' areas. But this can be argued. > > > > o Adds the upcoming events link under a Community section. It could > > be argued that local user groups should go here in place of under > > Support. But a broader opinion on that would be nice... > > > > Comments please... :) > > > > I like it, but I think there are still way too many links in the > sidebar. Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break things up a bit. Like this: Front page Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... > > As you already notes, the 'Vendors' section actually belongs to the > 'Software' section. 'Documentation' and 'Support' could be consolidated > into a 'Resources' section. That was kind of what I thought too, and I think Mark noted that in either private/public mail to me. Like on the IBM/Microsoft/Intel site, you visit the support section (usually support.domain.xxx) and they have downloads, documentation, software/hardware errata, bug/knowledge base... There may be something to that idea... > > The 'Multi-language support' section is not needed, IMHO. I think > people would expect documentation in a given language on the web > pages of that specific language, http://www.freebsd.org/de, for example. That is an opinion I wanted to hear, thanks! See my half-assed suggestion above. > > Maybe we should put the links to language specific web pages in a more > prominent position (and list all available languages on the front page). > > In general, we should unclutter the side bar. IMHO, NetBSD and OpenBSD > have done a good job in this regard. 4 or 5 big subsections which > roughly categorize the links to subsection pages, which can contain all > the other stuff. My goal explained! A good one or two 'key words' which link to a large area containing everything they would want. Easy to navigate, tons of useful information, no hunting around an endless wave of links to find one simple answer... Not that our site is that bad, yet... > > BTW, thanks for taking on this task, Tom :-) Not a problem at all, thanks for the support my friend! -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 18:23:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B389F16A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D8043FBF; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB32NF6q003896; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:23:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:23:14 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Sean Chittenden Message-Id: <20031202212314.2451e05d.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031203014606.GB81503@perrin.nxad.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203014606.GB81503@perrin.nxad.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:23:17 -0000 On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:46:06 -0800 Sean Chittenden wrote: > > o Takes a stab at the Vendors area, without any modification. The > > vendors link(s) should probably go under our Software or 'Getting > > FreeBSD' areas. But this can be argued. > > In my experience, one of the areas that FreeBSD has consistently been > dinged in the "initial impressions by management" department is the > lack of an obvious link to a list of vendors that provide commercial > support. Why? Vendors doesn't translate into commercial support with > some folk for some reason. There's nothing on the main page that > references /commercial/ and I think it'd be helpful to those > evaluating the use of FreeBSD. It's a trivial change, but I think > helps. Attached patch reoganizes and makes the /commercial/ page more > concise and alphabetizes the list of vendor categories. Since I'm still hammering out the 'look' of the front page with everyone, could I ask that the first part of this diff wait for a little while? I do agree that commercial support is something that needs more light shed on it, but every part of the site will get equal attention. :) > > The last thing that I think the commerical section is *desparately* in > need of, is a list of vendors that provide long term, 24/7 support. > It's non-obvious that there is a bunch of companies that provide that > with our current setup and this is consistently one of the most > important aspects of commercial support for people deciding to use > FreeBSD. I don't have an answer for this at this time, but think that > it needs immediate attention before the 5.3 release (5.2's too close). Hmmm, if I can keep my Cell phone pluged in over night beside my bed, I see a way to make some quick cash... :) > > Anyway, /commercial/ needs a nice professional touch to it and to move > away from some of the flashy, high-energy verbiage that's in there now > to something more solid and grounded in its tone, but that's for > another day. The rest of your patch seems fine. If you want to work over this with patches being discussed on the list, feel free. > > PS meta keywords could be brought into the 21st century. "free unix > download stable fast performance smp" would be better than some of > the entries listed. Noted... -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 18:31:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702B716A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A58D43FCB; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:31:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sean@nxad.com) Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B656C21067; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:30:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:30:09 -0800 From: Sean Chittenden To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20031203023009.GG16547@perrin.nxad.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203014606.GB81503@perrin.nxad.com> <20031202212314.2451e05d.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031202212314.2451e05d.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:31:24 -0000 > Since I'm still hammering out the 'look' of the front page with > everyone, could I ask that the first part of this diff wait for > a little while? I do agree that commercial support is something > that needs more light shed on it, but every part of the site will > get equal attention. :) Or simply incorporate it into your bits? It wasn't what I'd call a substantive amount of work on my part. :) > > The last thing that I think the commerical section is *desparately* in > > need of, is a list of vendors that provide long term, 24/7 support. > > It's non-obvious that there is a bunch of companies that provide that > > with our current setup and this is consistently one of the most > > important aspects of commercial support for people deciding to use > > FreeBSD. I don't have an answer for this at this time, but think that > > it needs immediate attention before the 5.3 release (5.2's too close). > > Hmmm, if I can keep my Cell phone pluged in over night beside my bed, > I see a way to make some quick cash... :) If the money is flowing from a company to a person or to another company, and the recipient of the money was found through this resource, I'd say that's good news for FreeBSD. :) That said, why not leave your cell phone on over night? I think the criteria should be having a website of some sort, which should keep the support area clean of people looking for a buck or two who aren't setup for long term support. There's no substitute for due-diligence on the part of a company. > > Anyway, /commercial/ needs a nice professional touch to it and to > > move away from some of the flashy, high-energy verbiage that's in > > there now to something more solid and grounded in its tone, but > > that's for another day. > > The rest of your patch seems fine. If you want to work over this > with patches being discussed on the list, feel free. I'll start with committing commercial.sgml for now and will put together the support section bits here in the next day or so and will post the patches on www@. -sc -- Sean Chittenden From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 18:43:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A8316A4CE; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0102B43FDD; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:43:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB32hW6q003975; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:43:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:43:30 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Sean Chittenden Message-Id: <20031202214330.7e65be01.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031203023009.GG16547@perrin.nxad.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203014606.GB81503@perrin.nxad.com> <20031202212314.2451e05d.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203023009.GG16547@perrin.nxad.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:43:34 -0000 On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:30:09 -0800 Sean Chittenden wrote: > > Since I'm still hammering out the 'look' of the front page with > > everyone, could I ask that the first part of this diff wait for > > a little while? I do agree that commercial support is something > > that needs more light shed on it, but every part of the site will > > get equal attention. :) > > Or simply incorporate it into your bits? It wasn't what I'd call a > substantive amount of work on my part. :) Actually, I thought I did that in my patch? If I neglected it, then i'll fix right away... :) > > > > The last thing that I think the commerical section is *desparately* in > > > need of, is a list of vendors that provide long term, 24/7 support. > > > It's non-obvious that there is a bunch of companies that provide that > > > with our current setup and this is consistently one of the most > > > important aspects of commercial support for people deciding to use > > > FreeBSD. I don't have an answer for this at this time, but think that > > > it needs immediate attention before the 5.3 release (5.2's too close). > > > > Hmmm, if I can keep my Cell phone pluged in over night beside my bed, > > I see a way to make some quick cash... :) > > If the money is flowing from a company to a person or to another > company, and the recipient of the money was found through this > resource, I'd say that's good news for FreeBSD. :) That said, why not > leave your cell phone on over night? I think the criteria should be Battery would drain (I need a new one). :) > having a website of some sort, which should keep the support area > clean of people looking for a buck or two who aren't setup for long > term support. There's no substitute for due-diligence on the part of > a company. Good point. I think that is the current criteria anyways, but I'm not that familiar with the commercial gallery unfortunately... > > > > Anyway, /commercial/ needs a nice professional touch to it and to > > > move away from some of the flashy, high-energy verbiage that's in > > > there now to something more solid and grounded in its tone, but > > > that's for another day. > > > > The rest of your patch seems fine. If you want to work over this > > with patches being discussed on the list, feel free. > > I'll start with committing commercial.sgml for now and will put > together the support section bits here in the next day or so and will > post the patches on www@. -sc Just be sure you run changes through Ceri. He's listed as the Commercial gallery editor on the contributors page. As for the support section bits, I have a few ideas that I would gladly run by you if you want to hear them. Thanks for the help with this! -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 20:50:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4039716A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED1043FBF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB34oOFY014783 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB34oO11014782; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:50:24 -0800 (PST) Resent-Message-Id: <200312030450.hB34oO11014782@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, FURUKAWA Jumpei Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F8B16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.f-bell.net (ZB222088.ppp.dion.ne.jp [219.125.222.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B3743FB1 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:44:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bell@f-bell.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.f-bell.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8EA817B for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:44:03 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail.f-bell.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (AvMailGate-2.0.1.16) id 28050-4E7B3057; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:44:03 +0900 Received: by mail.f-bell.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C8047179; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:44:03 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20031203044403.C8047179@mail.f-bell.net> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:44:03 +0900 (JST) From: FURUKAWA Jumpei To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/59914: [patch] Dead Link on HandBook/advanced-network X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: FURUKAWA Jumpei List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 04:50:26 -0000 >Number: 59914 >Category: docs >Synopsis: [patch] Dead Link on HandBook/advanced-network >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Dec 02 20:50:23 PST 2003 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: FURUKAWA Jumpei >Release: FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE-p10 i386 >Organization: >Environment: System: FreeBSD pippo.f-bell.net 5.1-RELEASE-p10 FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE-p10 #2: Sat Nov 1 22:21:31 JST 2003 bell@pippo.f-bell.net:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/PIPPO i386 >Description: There is a dead link on diskless section of handbook/advanced-network. >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: --- chapter.sgml.orig Tue Nov 25 20:21:58 2003 +++ chapter.sgml Wed Dec 3 13:22:51 2003 @@ -2474,7 +2474,7 @@ Etherboot's Web site contains - + extensive documentation mainly intended for Linux systems, but nonetheless containing useful information. The following will just outline how you would use >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 02:02:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E8CD16A4CE; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:02:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE41E43FE1; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:02:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blackend@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (blackend@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3A2nFY041611; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:02:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blackend@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from blackend@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB3A2ngG041607; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:02:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blackend) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:02:49 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Fonvieille Message-Id: <200312031002.hB3A2ngG041607@freefall.freebsd.org> To: bell@f-bell.net, blackend@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/59914: [patch] Dead Link on HandBook/advanced-network X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:02:51 -0000 Synopsis: [patch] Dead Link on HandBook/advanced-network State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: blackend State-Changed-When: Wed Dec 3 02:02:17 PST 2003 State-Changed-Why: Committed. Thanks. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=59914 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 02:16:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A12F916A4CE; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (blackend.org [212.11.35.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDC843FF7; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@blackend.org) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB3AG1B0083328; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:16:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc@abigail.blackend.org) Received: (from marc@localhost) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id hB3AFuhQ083322; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:15:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:15:56 +0100 From: Marc Fonvieille To: Christian Brueffer Message-ID: <20031203111556.A82729@abigail.blackend.org> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org>; from chris@unixpages.org on Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:21:41AM +0100 X-Useless-Header: blackend.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE cc: Tom Rhodes cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-www@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:16:09 -0000 --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:21:41AM +0100, Christian Brueffer wrote: >=20 > I like it, but I think there are still way too many links in the > sidebar. >=20 > As you already notes, the 'Vendors' section actually belongs to the > 'Software' section. 'Documentation' and 'Support' could be consolidated > into a 'Resources' section. >=20 > The 'Multi-language support' section is not needed, IMHO. I think > people would expect documentation in a given language on the web > pages of that specific language, http://www.freebsd.org/de, for example. >=20 > Maybe we should put the links to language specific web pages in a more > prominent position (and list all available languages on the front page). >=20 > In general, we should unclutter the side bar. IMHO, NetBSD and OpenBSD > have done a good job in this regard. 4 or 5 big subsections which > roughly categorize the links to subsection pages, which can contain all > the other stuff. >=20 [...] (Sorry, I do not have time to give to these interesting changes :( ) I agree with Christian the NetBSD.org way for Languages is very efficient and well "placed", we just need something like that. As I said above, I can't help you more guys but the new front page (the one available at the time of this writing) is already a great improvment, please continue! Marc --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/zbfZ81T1MWxkgcoRAuFkAJ9uE8Fuf/Ez5MqWtz6Szd9jJBgAZwCeMfyJ mk3d+7bAcHOEpSyNCm4k+I4= =gQX3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 04:43:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC71E16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 04:43:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.droso.net (koala.droso.net [193.162.142.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9674043FDD for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 04:43:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erwin@mail.droso.net) Received: by mail.droso.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 576322282C; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:43:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:43:53 +0100 From: Erwin Lansing To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> Mail-Followup-To: doc@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WChQLJJJfbwij+9x" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 5.1-CURRENT Subject: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:43:56 -0000 --WChQLJJJfbwij+9x Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Doc! As mentioned on -developers, I've taken it upon me to try and see if we, the ports people, can create a document not much unlike the Release Notes from our src brothers. Thoughts so far are that it should be some kind of combination of /usr/src/UPDATING and relnotes, where both major changes to major ports (ie. GNOME) can be announced to users and major changes to ports infrastructure (ie. bsd.port.mk) can get more attention of committers. The first thing to decide would be which form this document should be in. My first thought would be an article so we both have an online and an offline version. One disadvantage of this would be that the offline version would not be updating along with an update of the ports collection via cvsup. I'm not familiar with doc@ procedures, so bear with me to get this thing started. I already tricked simon@ into lending a hand with docbook foo and procedures, so how do we take this from here ? Cheers, -erwin --=20 _._ _,-'""`-._ Erwin Lansing (,-.`._,'( |\`-/| erwin@lansing.dk http://droso.org `-.-' \ )-`( , o o) erwin@FreeBSD.org -bf- `- \`_`"'- --WChQLJJJfbwij+9x Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zdqJqy9aWxUlaZARAuCBAKCzE4oyoGkvCxsVcwnO4FsThlIJewCgshhk Y5DmMSr2uvR0GjzJfTpyXDg= =X5h3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WChQLJJJfbwij+9x-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 04:54:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1E916A4CE; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 04:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (blackend.org [212.11.35.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDAA243FA3; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 04:54:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@blackend.org) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB3CsgB0084836; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:54:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc@abigail.blackend.org) Received: (from marc@localhost) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id hB3Csgqv084835; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:54:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:54:42 +0100 From: Marc Fonvieille To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203135442.B82729@abigail.blackend.org> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net>; from erwin@FreeBSD.org on Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:43:53PM +0100 X-Useless-Header: blackend.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE cc: erwin@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:54:49 -0000 --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:43:53PM +0100, Erwin Lansing wrote: > Hi Doc! >=20 > As mentioned on -developers, I've taken it upon me to try and see if we, > the ports people, can create a document not much unlike the Release > Notes from our src brothers. Thoughts so far are that it should be some > kind of combination of /usr/src/UPDATING and relnotes, where both major > changes to major ports (ie. GNOME) can be announced to users and major > changes to ports infrastructure (ie. bsd.port.mk) can get more attention > of committers. >=20 > The first thing to decide would be which form this document should be > in. My first thought would be an article so we both have an online and > an offline version. One disadvantage of this would be that the offline > version would not be updating along with an update of the ports > collection via cvsup. > [...] Release Notes live in src/, so it should be the same for your doc, i.e. in ports/, maybe in ports/Template or ports/Tools, or a specific directory. And something inside ports/ will prevent need of various repo access and could be updated via a cvsup, etc. Marc --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE/zd0R81T1MWxkgcoRAkOUAJ9Rs3fJAaQWMrnioO+qCnvjRaoDxQCfakKi z9tJ4hUW1H+ujJ2ipj+Jvl0= =VfcM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 04:59:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F73C16A4E2; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 04:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC50E43FDF; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 04:59:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPB00445KWZV3@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) hB3CmYsU029114; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16DE1D; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:33 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E5579461C; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:32 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> To: Tom Rhodes Message-id: <20031203124832.GI71732@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary="FUFe+yI/t+r3nyH4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> cc: FreeBSD-www@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:59:40 -0000 --FUFe+yI/t+r3nyH4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:10:30PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:41 +0100 > Christian Brueffer wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > I like it, but I think there are still way too many links in the > > sidebar. >=20 > Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get > around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break > things up a bit. Like this: >=20 > Front page > Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... > Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... >=20 I have to think about this some more, I don't think your example above catches it quite right. > >=20 > > As you already notes, the 'Vendors' section actually belongs to the > > 'Software' section. 'Documentation' and 'Support' could be consolidated > > into a 'Resources' section. >=20 > That was kind of what I thought too, and I think Mark noted that > in either private/public mail to me. Like on the IBM/Microsoft/Intel > site, you visit the support section (usually support.domain.xxx) and > they have downloads, documentation, software/hardware errata, > bug/knowledge base... There may be something to that idea... >=20 Yes, something like that would be nice. >=20 > >=20 > > Maybe we should put the links to language specific web pages in a more > > prominent position (and list all available languages on the front page). > >=20 > > In general, we should unclutter the side bar. IMHO, NetBSD and OpenBSD > > have done a good job in this regard. 4 or 5 big subsections which > > roughly categorize the links to subsection pages, which can contain all > > the other stuff. >=20 > My goal explained! A good one or two 'key words' which link to a > large area containing everything they would want. Easy to navigate, > tons of useful information, no hunting around an endless wave of > links to find one simple answer... Not that our site is that bad, > yet... >=20 Good to see we're on the same line on this one. Haven't read most of the other thread, so if I just parrotted what you already said, sorry about that one :-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --FUFe+yI/t+r3nyH4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zdugbHYXjKDtmC0RAnrsAKD/MHu9PdDow3Ip6tbC3IdBrL/8pACdEiYN 93nX8+zmKqfGjsFUatZA7pc= =boxR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FUFe+yI/t+r3nyH4-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 05:35:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D8A16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9955A43F75 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:35:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) hB3DZwus023476 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hB3DZwIx023475 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:35:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:35:57 -0500 From: Ken Smith To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:35:59 -0000 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:43:53PM +0100, Erwin Lansing wrote: > As mentioned on -developers, I've taken it upon me to try and see if we, > the ports people, can create a document not much unlike the Release > Notes from our src brothers. Thoughts so far are that it should be some > kind of combination of /usr/src/UPDATING and relnotes, where both major > changes to major ports (ie. GNOME) can be announced to users and major > changes to ports infrastructure (ie. bsd.port.mk) can get more attention > of committers. > > The first thing to decide would be which form this document should be > in. My first thought would be an article so we both have an online and > an offline version. One disadvantage of this would be that the offline > version would not be updating along with an update of the ports > collection via cvsup. [ These are just humble thoughts, I'm not trying to discourage you or anything... :-] Keep in mind the purpose of the document and who you expect to be reading it. There is a reason /usr/src/UPDATING is plain text. The target audience wouldn't read it if it were done as docbook markup. The relnotes are *exactly* that - Release Notes designed to be accurate at the point the release happens. It's also generally expected they would be read from the WWW site as part of an administrator starting to think about upgrading the systems at their site to the new release. They're not going to look at it in between. IMHO you would be best off stealing the src folks' setup exactly as it is. For ``emergency'' stuff phased in out of sync with anything resembling a release schedule (e.g. the change that kicked off the entire discussion on -developers) put it in /usr/ports/UPDATING. The relnotes can be a perhaps slightly condensed list of major changes, new gotchas, etc. that got phased in between releases. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 06:02:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274BF16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.seekingfire.com (coyote.seekingfire.com [24.72.10.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA34643FBD for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:02:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tillman@seekingfire.com) Received: by mail.seekingfire.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 7321B8BB; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:02:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:02:44 -0600 From: Tillman Hodgson To: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . X-GPG-Key-ID: 828AFC7B X-GPG-Fingerprint: 5584 14BA C9EB 1524 0E68 F543 0F0A 7FBC 828A FC7B X-GPG-Key: http://www.seekingfire.com/gpg_key.asc X-Urban-Legend: There is lots of hidden information in headers User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:02:47 -0000 On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:10:30PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get > around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break > things up a bit. Like this: > > Front page > Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... > Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... Should that be ``English'', ``American'' not (yet) being a language? Or am I missing a clue as to what you're meaning? :-) -T -- When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path. - Ancient Fremen Wisdom From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 06:19:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD61C16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:19:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from gandalf.online.bg (gandalf.online.bg [217.75.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97F1443FCB for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:19:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roam@ringlet.net) Received: (qmail 9421 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2003 14:17:25 -0000 Received: from office.sbnd.net (HELO straylight.ringlet.net) (217.75.140.130) by gandalf.online.bg with SMTP; 3 Dec 2003 14:17:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 21507 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Dec 2003 14:19:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:19:13 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Tillman Hodgson Message-ID: <20031203141913.GH3327@straylight.m.ringlet.net> Mail-Followup-To: Tillman Hodgson , FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aF3LVLvitz/VQU3c" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:19:22 -0000 --aF3LVLvitz/VQU3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:02:44AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:10:30PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get > > around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break > > things up a bit. Like this: > >=20 > > Front page > > Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... > > Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... >=20 > Should that be ``English'', ``American'' not (yet) being a language? Or > am I missing a clue as to what you're meaning? :-) I think he might have been referring to America (without the 'n') as a geographical location, not as a language :) G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@sbnd.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 This sentence is false. --aF3LVLvitz/VQU3c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zfDh7Ri2jRYZRVMRAnVzAJ9E6ch7TP87dibD3Mo3YstQ5fO0aQCcCNc8 VAtP449MpglcoajgLCbcDZ8= =0QC0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --aF3LVLvitz/VQU3c-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 06:27:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A620816A4CF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.droso.net (koala.droso.net [193.162.142.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3287543F93 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:27:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erwin@mail.droso.net) Received: by mail.droso.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D936122856; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:27:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:27:23 +0100 From: Erwin Lansing To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203142723.GB72102@droso.net> Mail-Followup-To: doc@FreeBSD.org References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203135442.B82729@abigail.blackend.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203135442.B82729@abigail.blackend.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 5.1-CURRENT Subject: Re: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:27:28 -0000 --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:54:42PM +0100, Marc Fonvieille wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:43:53PM +0100, Erwin Lansing wrote: > > Hi Doc! > >=20 > > As mentioned on -developers, I've taken it upon me to try and see if we, > > the ports people, can create a document not much unlike the Release > > Notes from our src brothers. Thoughts so far are that it should be some > > kind of combination of /usr/src/UPDATING and relnotes, where both major > > changes to major ports (ie. GNOME) can be announced to users and major > > changes to ports infrastructure (ie. bsd.port.mk) can get more attention > > of committers. > >=20 > > The first thing to decide would be which form this document should be > > in. My first thought would be an article so we both have an online and > > an offline version. One disadvantage of this would be that the offline > > version would not be updating along with an update of the ports > > collection via cvsup. > > > [...] >=20 > Release Notes live in src/, so it should be the same for your doc, i.e. > in ports/, maybe in ports/Template or ports/Tools, or a specific director= y. > And something inside ports/ will prevent need of various repo access and > could be updated via a cvsup, etc. >=20 Neat, I didn't know that. That should be one problem solved :) --=20 _._ _,-'""`-._ Erwin Lansing (,-.`._,'( |\`-/| erwin@lansing.dk http://droso.org `-.-' \ )-`( , o o) erwin@FreeBSD.org -bf- `- \`_`"'- --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zfLLqy9aWxUlaZARAt/zAKD3i9ZagWNAKrCgeVe7Q7PBI8veuwCfVGGL ZRKWZJTbw0HldUae6gblQp4= =9+0W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 07:10:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8230216A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.droso.net (koala.droso.net [193.162.142.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320BD43F75 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:10:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erwin@mail.droso.net) Received: by mail.droso.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 29C2122858; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:09:58 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:09:58 +0100 From: Erwin Lansing To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> Mail-Followup-To: doc@FreeBSD.org References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S1BNGpv0yoYahz37" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 5.1-CURRENT Subject: Re: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:10:01 -0000 --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:35:57AM -0500, Ken Smith wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:43:53PM +0100, Erwin Lansing wrote: >=20 > > As mentioned on -developers, I've taken it upon me to try and see if we, > > the ports people, can create a document not much unlike the Release > > Notes from our src brothers. Thoughts so far are that it should be some > > kind of combination of /usr/src/UPDATING and relnotes, where both major > > changes to major ports (ie. GNOME) can be announced to users and major > > changes to ports infrastructure (ie. bsd.port.mk) can get more attention > > of committers. > >=20 > > The first thing to decide would be which form this document should be > > in. My first thought would be an article so we both have an online and > > an offline version. One disadvantage of this would be that the offline > > version would not be updating along with an update of the ports > > collection via cvsup. >=20 > [ These are just humble thoughts, I'm not trying to discourage you > or anything... :-] No worries, I'm just brainstorming a bit here to try to get some input from people who have worked with this kind of thing before. >=20 > Keep in mind the purpose of the document and who you expect to be reading > it. There is a reason /usr/src/UPDATING is plain text. The target > audience wouldn't read it if it were done as docbook markup. The > relnotes are *exactly* that - Release Notes designed to be accurate > at the point the release happens. It's also generally expected they > would be read from the WWW site as part of an administrator starting > to think about upgrading the systems at their site to the new release. > They're not going to look at it in between. Yes, I've been thinking about that. >=20 > IMHO you would be best off stealing the src folks' setup exactly as > it is. For ``emergency'' stuff phased in out of sync with anything > resembling a release schedule (e.g. the change that kicked off the > entire discussion on -developers) put it in /usr/ports/UPDATING. The > relnotes can be a perhaps slightly condensed list of major changes, > new gotchas, etc. that got phased in between releases. >=20 Although I'm all that happy about starting two new documents, I keep running into problems with how to combine the best of both worlds and perhaps the best would be both. One plaintext UPDATING-style where all ports-committers can add items for developers to and one relnotes-style, which rotates at each release and is published at the website more oriented at users. --=20 _._ _,-'""`-._ Erwin Lansing (,-.`._,'( |\`-/| erwin@lansing.dk http://droso.org `-.-' \ )-`( , o o) erwin@FreeBSD.org -bf- `- \`_`"'- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zfzGqy9aWxUlaZARAq/CAKCIY9oGJk4ac/DEM316X9tEAD4+6ACfQ81K OCy33/FU+M46ZA+KzJC7ruA= =I/Bp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 10:37:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B5C16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FB044049 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) hB3Ibmus001437 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:37:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hB3IblVP001436 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:37:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:37:47 -0500 From: Ken Smith To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203183747.GA1326@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:37:49 -0000 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 04:09:58PM +0100, Erwin Lansing wrote: > Although I'm all that happy about starting two new documents, I keep > running into problems with how to combine the best of both worlds > and perhaps the best would be both. One plaintext UPDATING-style where > all ports-committers can add items for developers to and one relnotes-style, > which rotates at each release and is published at the website more oriented > at users. You're thinking about only two? ;-) Thoughts on having a third special one that is much more visible that lists security fixes? Speaking with my day job hat on I'm not *real* interested in constantly updating ports on lots of machines, I tend to do it at OS release times. But I'm much more interested in knowing when security issues in ports get addressed, for example the recent screen(1) issue. Sorry, just a thought. :-( -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 10:41:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE7316A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C515043FAF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (adsl-64-142-31-106.sonic.net [64.142.31.106])hB3IfCkO026153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:41:13 -0800 Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (bmah@localhost [127.0.0.1]) hB3IfCO0053329 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:41:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.kitchenlab.org (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hB3IfCKT053328 for doc@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:41:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:41:12 -0800 From: "Bruce A. Mah" To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203184112.GA53286@intruder.kitchenlab.org> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="opJtzjQTFsWo+cga" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Subject: Re: Documentation of major changes to the ports collection X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:41:15 -0000 --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline If memory serves me right, Erwin Lansing wrote: > Although I'm all that happy about starting two new documents, I keep > running into problems with how to combine the best of both worlds > and perhaps the best would be both. One plaintext UPDATING-style where > all ports-committers can add items for developers to and one relnotes-style, > which rotates at each release and is published at the website more oriented > at users. This might be a good approach. The second document could actually be implemented as a part of the existing release notes, since it's tied fairly strongly to particular releases of the base system. Bruce. --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/zi5H2MoxcVugUsMRAnRYAKCOmIVuiu2h6fC1RBxuybx4xy43KQCgiiVr MgN0LowxKaoHAR8MLk3heUo= =3ycC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --opJtzjQTFsWo+cga-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 11:05:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A44916A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA0043FCB for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB3J5r6q006483; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:05:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:05:44 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Peter Pentchev Message-Id: <20031203140544.3d64576c.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031203141913.GH3327@straylight.m.ringlet.net> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com> <20031203141913.GH3327@straylight.m.ringlet.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:05:57 -0000 On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:19:13 +0200 Peter Pentchev wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:02:44AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:10:30PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get > > > around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break > > > things up a bit. Like this: > > > > > > Front page > > > Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... > > > Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... > > > > Should that be ``English'', ``American'' not (yet) being a language? Or > > am I missing a clue as to what you're meaning? :-) > > I think he might have been referring to America (without the 'n') as > a geographical location, not as a language :) Guess I made an 'ooops'. This could be a language choice or a regional choice. I'm open! :) Finally got your attention, huh Peter? :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 11:35:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C4716A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.seekingfire.com (coyote.seekingfire.com [24.72.10.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3729043FB1 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tillman@seekingfire.com) Received: by mail.seekingfire.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 4E14622F; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:35:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:35:34 -0600 From: Tillman Hodgson To: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031203193534.GH294@seekingfire.com> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com> <20031203141913.GH3327@straylight.m.ringlet.net> <20031203140544.3d64576c.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203140544.3d64576c.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . X-GPG-Key-ID: 828AFC7B X-GPG-Fingerprint: 5584 14BA C9EB 1524 0E68 F543 0F0A 7FBC 828A FC7B X-GPG-Key: http://www.seekingfire.com/gpg_key.asc X-Urban-Legend: There is lots of hidden information in headers User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:35:40 -0000 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:05:44PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:19:13 +0200 > Peter Pentchev wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:02:44AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > > Should that be ``English'', ``American'' not (yet) being a language? Or > > > am I missing a clue as to what you're meaning? :-) > > > > I think he might have been referring to America (without the 'n') as > > a geographical location, not as a language :) > > Guess I made an 'ooops'. This could be a language choice or a > regional choice. I'm open! :) In which case I prefer a language choice. Regional choices can be Handled somewhat automatically through technical means, while language choice is an individual choice. -T -- Page xxviii: Live with Unix long enough and you will change. You will become more creative, and you will come to understand the spirit of creation in others. - Harley Hahn, _The Unix Companion_ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 12:07:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A789F16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from starbuck.apollonian.net (starbuck.apollonian.net [67.40.4.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C2C43FF5 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:07:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from decker@apollonian.net) Received: (qmail 92728 invoked by uid 85); 3 Dec 2003 20:12:49 -0000 Received: from decker@apollonian.net by starbuck.apollonian.net by uid 89 with qmail-scanner-1.16 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham ):. Processed in 11.081391 secs); 03 Dec 2003 20:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.12?) (decker@apollonian.net@67.40.4.201) by starbuck.apollonian.net with RC4-SHA encrypted SMTP; 3 Dec 2003 20:12:38 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <20031203183747.GA1326@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> <20031203183747.GA1326@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5C490C84-25CC-11D8-B8D9-0003934F6A0A@apollonian.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Decker Wong-Godfrey Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:07:45 -0800 To: doc@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on starbuck.apollonian.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Documenting Jail X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:07:54 -0000 Hello all, I'd like to undertake writing more detailed Jail documentation. Personally, I have found the Jail manual page--while it is an excellent introduction to Jails--to be a little short on some information, for instance: * It still uses "make world" in its instructions for building the jail. Although this is probably the best solution for the manual page, there is nothing discussing the fact that "make world" is hardly necessary when a "make buildworld" (as is recommended by the handbook) for the host system will already leave everything needed in place. * It doesn't discuss using any of the make.conf args that can be used to define what the jail can and should have in it. * Although a Jail can run in the same IP address as the host, it only discusses setting up a jail on a different IP address than the host. Personally, I really like the Jail manual page because it does what I think a manual page should do: get to the nuts and bolts of getting things running. But outside the Jail manual page, I can't find any documentation, save a paper at http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/papers/jail/jail.html (which concentrates more on what a Jail does than how to use a Jail). There seems to be plenty of need for something more, as I find plenty of (good and not so good) information that other people have put on their websites. The problem is, I'm not sure whether someone else is undertaking the same project. I've spent a couple months lurking around here, have looked at the FDP, but I'm still getting the hang of how things work. Maybe it's just because I'm used to documenting under different conditions; a little while back, I finished 3 years working as a systems administrator/technical writer for a company that worked writing documentation. There, everything was very formalized, people were assigned tasks & had deadlines. I understand that things work a little differently in a volunteer environment, but I'm still not quite sure how one would start a project (other than doing something like this). Anyways, thanks for all your hard work; believe me I've been very thankful on many occasions to all of you who have worked on the documentation. Decker Wong-Godfrey From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 12:23:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B622E16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:23:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from succubus.travisbsd.org (rrcs-west-67-52-49-163.biz.rr.com [67.52.49.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205B743F85 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:23:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@travisbsd.org) Received: from Petra (unknown [10.0.0.199]) by succubus.travisbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA1822859E; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:21:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000501c3b9db$a1b8b900$c700000a@Petra> From: "Travis McArthur" To: "Decker Wong-Godfrey" , References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net><20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU><20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net><20031203183747.GA1326@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <5C490C84-25CC-11D8-B8D9-0003934F6A0A@apollonian.net> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:25:45 -0600 Organization: TravisBSD Network MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Re: Documenting Jail X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:23:47 -0000 Begin writting your documentation, and submit it here for review, when done follow the steps in the documentation project Submitting Documentation page for information on how to create a formal request to enter it into the system. -- Travis McArthur "Why, when I was your age...oh wait, I'm not your age yet. Sorry." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Decker Wong-Godfrey" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:07 PM Subject: Documenting Jail > Hello all, > > I'd like to undertake writing more detailed Jail documentation. > Personally, I have found the Jail manual page--while it is an excellent > introduction to Jails--to be a little short on some information, for > instance: > > * It still uses "make world" in its instructions for building the > jail. Although this is probably the best solution for the manual page, > there is nothing discussing the fact that "make world" is hardly > necessary when a "make buildworld" (as is recommended by the handbook) > for the host system will already leave everything needed in place. > > * It doesn't discuss using any of the make.conf args that can be used > to define what the jail can and should have in it. > > * Although a Jail can run in the same IP address as the host, it only > discusses setting up a jail on a different IP address than the host. > > > Personally, I really like the Jail manual page because it does what I > think a manual page should do: get to the nuts and bolts of getting > things running. But outside the Jail manual page, I can't find any > documentation, save a paper at > http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/papers/jail/jail.html (which concentrates > more on what a Jail does than how to use a Jail). > > There seems to be plenty of need for something more, as I find plenty > of (good and not so good) information that other people have put on > their websites. The problem is, I'm not sure whether someone else is > undertaking the same project. I've spent a couple months lurking around > here, have looked at the FDP, but I'm still getting the hang of how > things work. > > Maybe it's just because I'm used to documenting under different > conditions; a little while back, I finished 3 years working as a > systems administrator/technical writer for a company that worked > writing documentation. There, everything was very formalized, people > were assigned tasks & had deadlines. I understand that things work a > little differently in a volunteer environment, but I'm still not quite > sure how one would start a project (other than doing something like > this). > > Anyways, thanks for all your hard work; believe me I've been very > thankful on many occasions to all of you who have worked on the > documentation. > > Decker Wong-Godfrey > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-doc > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-doc-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 13:10:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8ED16A4CF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from seaholm.caamora.com.au (seaholm.caamora.com.au [203.7.226.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0BC43F85 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by seaholm.caamora.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id hB3L9WX01145; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:09:32 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <20031204080932.42767@caamora.com.au> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:09:32 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: Tillman Hodgson References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <20031203140244.GE24927@seekingfire.com>; from Tillman Hodgson on Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:02:44AM -0600 Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia cc: FreeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:10:04 -0000 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 08:02:44AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:10:30PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get > > around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break > > things up a bit. Like this: > > > > Front page > > Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... > > Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... > > Should that be ``English'', ``American'' not (yet) being a language? Or > am I missing a clue as to what you're meaning? :-) perhaps, an english path broken up with a country catagory, like america, australia, canada, england, new zealand and anywhere else that english is the primary language. i've gone to a lot of places on teh www to look for stuff and then got bounced to some american site because i chose my language as english. to explain why that is a problem for use who do not live on teh american subcontinent .. all teh stuff that gets to australia goes across teh pacific ocean floor bed via a cable that has its entry point at mae-west (could be mae-east, i keep getting those two confused) at any rate if that router (as robust as it is along with its huge amount of bandwidth) gets saturated my download becomes slow and unreliable pkts drop and if i'm lucky it only takes 4 or 5 cups of tea to get my 250 kbyte text file. these days it is not as bad as it used to be, i grew up with the internet in australia having a 155 kbit link to mae-west back then the link being saturated and down was at least a weekly occurence and so on. sorry if this sounds a bit extreme, but for those of us who live on teh periphery of the world it is a way of life and not just some inconvience that can be routed around if needs be. thier is also the issue of netiquette, but, well i've rambled on enough. regards and thanks jonathan -- ================================================================ powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system ==== === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ==== From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 17:16:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B4916A4CE; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E242043F93; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB41GG6q007496; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:16:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:16:12 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Christian Brueffer Message-Id: <20031203201612.1bcb13b0.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031203124832.GI71732@unixpages.org> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031202211030.1631d5be.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031203124832.GI71732@unixpages.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 01:16:20 -0000 On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:32 +0100 Christian Brueffer wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:10:30PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:21:41 +0100 > > Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > > > > > > I like it, but I think there are still way too many links in the > > > sidebar. > > > > Yes, too many can be overwhelming. I'm thinking of ways to get > > around this. If we do site cleanup, then perhaps we can break > > things up a bit. Like this: > > > > Front page > > Support ---- America -- links, documentation, ... > > Other -- links to sites, translated docs, ... > > > > I have to think about this some more, I don't think your example above > catches it quite right. In all honesty, it doesn't. But what else could I do with only a few moments of time before I left work eh? :) > > > > > > > As you already notes, the 'Vendors' section actually belongs to the > > > 'Software' section. 'Documentation' and 'Support' could be consolidated > > > into a 'Resources' section. > > > > That was kind of what I thought too, and I think Mark noted that > > in either private/public mail to me. Like on the IBM/Microsoft/Intel > > site, you visit the support section (usually support.domain.xxx) and > > they have downloads, documentation, software/hardware errata, > > bug/knowledge base... There may be something to that idea... > > > > Yes, something like that would be nice. Sean wanted to get some ideas from me on this. Of course, we won't commit anything without general -doc approval. > > > > > > > > > Maybe we should put the links to language specific web pages in a more > > > prominent position (and list all available languages on the front page). > > > > > > In general, we should unclutter the side bar. IMHO, NetBSD and OpenBSD > > > have done a good job in this regard. 4 or 5 big subsections which > > > roughly categorize the links to subsection pages, which can contain all > > > the other stuff. > > > > My goal explained! A good one or two 'key words' which link to a > > large area containing everything they would want. Easy to navigate, > > tons of useful information, no hunting around an endless wave of > > links to find one simple answer... Not that our site is that bad, > > yet... > > > > Good to see we're on the same line on this one. Haven't read most of > the other thread, so if I just parrotted what you already said, sorry > about that one :-) Tis fine. As long as we are on the same wave link, I'm happy. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 17:23:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9000F16A4CE; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C91FE43FE3; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB41Nd6q007523; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:23:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:23:35 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Marc Fonvieille Message-Id: <20031203202335.68730ae9.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20031203111556.A82729@abigail.blackend.org> References: <20031202160640.1df85804.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202232141.GG71732@unixpages.org> <20031203111556.A82729@abigail.blackend.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-www@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Round two of the front page structure changes... X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 01:23:41 -0000 On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:15:56 +0100 Marc Fonvieille wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:21:41AM +0100, Christian Brueffer wrote: > > > > I like it, but I think there are still way too many links in the > > sidebar. > > > > As you already notes, the 'Vendors' section actually belongs to the > > 'Software' section. 'Documentation' and 'Support' could be consolidated > > into a 'Resources' section. > > > > The 'Multi-language support' section is not needed, IMHO. I think > > people would expect documentation in a given language on the web > > pages of that specific language, http://www.freebsd.org/de, for example. > > > > Maybe we should put the links to language specific web pages in a more > > prominent position (and list all available languages on the front page). > > > > In general, we should unclutter the side bar. IMHO, NetBSD and OpenBSD > > have done a good job in this regard. 4 or 5 big subsections which > > roughly categorize the links to subsection pages, which can contain all > > the other stuff. > > > [...] > > (Sorry, I do not have time to give to these interesting changes :( ) > > I agree with Christian the NetBSD.org way for Languages is very > efficient and well "placed", we just need something like that. That sounds like a good idea. It may be more noticable than a drop down box and whatnot... > > As I said above, I can't help you more guys but the new front page (the > one available at the time of this writing) is already a great > improvment, please continue! Thanks! Besides, you seem to be covering the ports doc, which I lack time on. Talk about working together hehe... -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 17:32:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A00816A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EDFD43F75 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:31:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <200312040131580160088bbme>; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 01:31:58 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB41VUTG036281; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB41VIJI036278; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:31:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Decker Wong-Godfrey References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> <20031203183747.GA1326@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <5C490C84-25CC-11D8-B8D9-0003934F6A0A@apollonian.net> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:31:18 -0800 In-Reply-To: <5C490C84-25CC-11D8-B8D9-0003934F6A0A@apollonian.net> (Decker Wong-Godfrey's message of "Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:07:45 -0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Documenting Jail X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 01:32:00 -0000 Decker Wong-Godfrey writes: > [...] but I'm still not quite > sure how one would start a project (other than doing something like > this). You can find some help by following this link from the home page: http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/index.html and then at least look also at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/submitting.html You've already taken an important step that I don't see documented there: Starting some discussion of your proposed document before proceeding. It might be good to also do so where jail experts hang out; some people who write documents don't read this doc list regularly. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 20:09:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F306816A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D5E43FBD for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:09:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2003120404090901200gf965e>; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 04:09:09 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB448gTG038445; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB448a0a038444; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 20:08:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCCC589.8040700@potentialtech.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:08:36 -0800 Message-ID: <69ad69gr7f.d69@mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:09:12 -0000 Bill Moran writes: > This looks authoritative: > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/writing-style-word-list.html Is anyone besides me suprised to see that page? I'd like to know something about its history. Some words about FDP governance would be welcome too; it seems I haven't figured it out in three years. (I've looked for info on both at www.freebsd.org, even using the CVS and list search tools, but didn't find anything useful with a reasonable amount of effort.) Thanks. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 21:16:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5679116A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F04B43FDF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:16:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB45GN6q007997; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:16:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:16:13 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Message-Id: <20031204001613.4cefdf4a.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <69ad69gr7f.d69@mail.comcast.net> References: <3FCBB04F.7070204@potentialtech.com> <20031201221825.GB10158@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202053708.GC71732@unixpages.org> <20031202090021.GA269@jenny.daemon.li> <20031202112217.23a48871.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <20031202162745.GE71732@unixpages.org> <20031202114420.00233193.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3FCCC589.8040700@potentialtech.com> <69ad69gr7f.d69@mail.comcast.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposed addition to the mail section of the handbook X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 05:16:26 -0000 On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:08:36 -0800 underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) wrote: > Bill Moran writes: > > > This looks authoritative: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/writing-style-word-list.html > > Is anyone besides me suprised to see that page? > > I'd like to know something about its history. Some words about FDP > governance would be welcome too; it seems I haven't figured it out in > three years. (I've looked for info on both at www.freebsd.org, even > using the CVS and list search tools, but didn't find anything useful > with a reasonable amount of effort.) To my recollection, this was in place before I became a committer. Its main purpose is to keep disputes over the alternate spellings of some words to a minimum. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 4 14:18:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7490A16A4CE for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from jane.spg.more.net (jane.spg.more.net [207.160.133.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E83A43FBF for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:18:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@more.net) Received: from more.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jane.spg.more.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79B0132F8; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:18:38 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3FCFB2BE.60001@more.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:18:38 -0600 From: Dan D Niles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030904 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.4.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Handbook 12.5.2 mkisofs X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:18:42 -0000 I am trying to make a FreeBSD 5.1 bootable CD, and I'm not having much luck. The handbook (12.5.2) says to use: # *mkisofs -U -R -b boot/cdboot -o /tmp/bootable.iso /tmp/myboot **It appears the handbook is incorrect, because **when I do this, I get the error: Size of boot image is 4 sectors -> mkisofs: Error - boot image 'image/boot/cdboot' is not the an allowable size. I tried adding the -no-emul-boot option and mkisofs works, but the resulting image does not boot (the machine hangs where I should be seing the boot menu). Can you point me to a document on creating a (custom) FreeBSD 5.x bootable CD? Thanks, Dan * From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 4 14:51:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BAE16A4CF for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sparky.crypt0.com.ar (OL250-246.fibertel.com.ar [24.232.246.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02AF443FB1 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tx@crypt0.com.ar) Received: from sparky.crypt0.com.ar (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sparky.crypt0.com.ar (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB4Mpgme000235 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:51:50 -0300 (ART) (envelope-from tx@crypt0.com.ar) Received: (from tejano@localhost) by sparky.crypt0.com.ar (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB4MpamP000234 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:51:36 -0300 (ART) (envelope-from tx@crypt0.com.ar) X-Authentication-Warning: sparky.crypt0.com.ar: tejano set sender to tx@crypt0.com.ar using -f From: tx To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1070578295.218.5.camel@sparky.crypt0.com.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:51:36 -0300 Subject: Spanish Handbook translation X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: tx@crypt0.com.ar List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:51:56 -0000 Hello all, I'd like to help in the spanish handbook translation since i think it's really very helpful. I'd also like to help or start translating other documents as well, because there isnt much documentation in spanish and most people really need them. I don't know if this is the correct list i should write, but if it is not, please someone tell me where to write. Thanks in advance, tx. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 4 15:45:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903FA16A4CE for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.web.de (smtp02.web.de [217.72.192.151]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EF643F85 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from J.Kois@web.de) Received: from p508001ee.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.128.1.238] helo=web.de) by smtp.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.99 #566) id 1AS39y-0006UG-00; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 00:45:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3FCFC719.3010900@web.de> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 00:45:29 +0100 From: Johann Kois User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; de-DE; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: de-de, de-at, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tx@crypt0.com.ar References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> <1070578295.218.5.camel@sparky.crypt0.com.ar> In-Reply-To: <1070578295.218.5.camel@sparky.crypt0.com.ar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: J.Kois@web.de cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spanish Handbook translation X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 23:45:33 -0000 tx schrieb: > I don't know if this is the correct list i should write >, but if it is > not, please someone tell me where to write. Well, you should contact the FreeBSD Spanish Documentation Project. Therefore take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html and http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/translations.html#spanish John J.Kois@web.de From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 4 20:20:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA9D16A4CE for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from fed1mtao05.cox.net (fed1mtao05.cox.net [68.6.19.126]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0CD43FAF for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sku@cox.net) Received: from nightfall.cox.net ([68.107.140.104]) by fed1mtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031205041947.KLPK9968.fed1mtao05.cox.net@nightfall.cox.net>; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:19:47 -0500 Received: by nightfall.cox.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B93A23131; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:19:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:19:46 -0800 From: "Jesus R. Camou" To: tx Message-ID: <20031205041946.GA27582@cox.net> References: <20031203124353.GD82966@droso.net> <20031203133557.GA23226@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20031203150958.GC72102@droso.net> <1070578295.218.5.camel@sparky.crypt0.com.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1070578295.218.5.camel@sparky.crypt0.com.ar> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spanish Handbook translation X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jcamou@cox.net List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:20:25 -0000 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:51:36PM -0300, tx wrote: > Hello all, > > I'd like to help in the spanish handbook translation since i think it's > really very helpful. I'd also like to help or start translating other > documents as well, because there isnt much documentation in spanish and > most people really need them. > I don't know if this is the correct list i should write, but if it is > not, please someone tell me where to write. I'm currently working on spanish docs. You can start translating any time. If you don't know docbook or sgml just send me an email and I'll be happy to help you. The spanish documentation is really old and we need people to update it and also write new docs. I've been working with Spanish docs for a while, contact me for any further question. Thanks! > > Thanks in advance, > > tx. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-doc > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-doc-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Jesus R. Camou From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 05:35:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993EB16A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F10C43FBF for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 871B1530C; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:35:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id F014A5308 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:35:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 888B333C6A; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:35:26 +0100 (CET) To: doc@freebsd.org From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:35:26 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: doc / doc-bugs split? X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:35:36 -0000 How would people feel about splitting -doc into -doc and -doc-bugs like the ports people did with -ports? Since I'm mainly a src committer and my time and resources are limited, I'd like to be able to keep track of infrastructure discussions without having to wade through bug reports. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 05:40:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6003416A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B226143FBF for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:40:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB5Deq6T079127; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:40:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3FD08AD0.8080206@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:40:32 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: doc / doc-bugs split? X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:40:56 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >How would people feel about splitting -doc into -doc and -doc-bugs >like the ports people did with -ports? Since I'm mainly a src >committer and my time and resources are limited, I'd like to be able >to keep track of infrastructure discussions without having to wade >through bug reports. > > I was just thinking the same thing about 2 days ago.. I like it! Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 06:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D8116A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDFD43F75 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:51:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 883CB530A; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:51:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 43AAC5308 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:51:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id DBDD633C6A; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:51:49 +0100 (CET) To: doc@freebsd.org From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:51:49 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: doc infrastructure (still) not OBJDIR-clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:52:00 -0000 Attempts to build the doc tree after 'make obj' fail because of stuff like this: =3D=3D=3D> en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/console-server make: don't know how to make /usr/obj/usr/home/des/freebsd/doc/en_US.ISO885= 9-1/articles/console-server//usr/home/des/freebsd/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/artic= les/console-server/../../../share/images/articles/console-server/tk0231-9-1= .png. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/home/des/freebsd/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/home/des/freebsd/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/home/des/freebsd/doc. apparently it's doing ${.OBJDIR}/${.CURDIR}/${IMGDIR} instead of ${.CURDIR}/${IMGDIR}. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 06:59:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DDB716A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [68.168.78.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07AA44011 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@easytree.net) Received: from easytree.net ([216.227.133.38]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031205140055.QORH14499.mta13.adelphia.net@easytree.net> for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:00:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3FD08FD3.D55993D1@easytree.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:01:55 -0500 From: Peter Serwe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@freebsd.org References: <3FD08AD0.8080206@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: doc / doc-bugs split? X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:59:13 -0000 That's a much loved idea from this side of the world Eric Anderson wrote: > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > >How would people feel about splitting -doc into -doc and -doc-bugs > >like the ports people did with -ports? Since I'm mainly a src > >committer and my time and resources are limited, I'd like to be able > >to keep track of infrastructure discussions without having to wade > >through bug reports. > > > > > I was just thinking the same thing about 2 days ago.. I like it! -- Peter Serwe Cheaper, Faster, Better, pick any two. From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 07:51:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8FE16A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D9A43FBF for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:51:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5Fpu6q012656 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:51:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:51:55 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: doc@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20031205105155.469c15b7.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3FD08FD3.D55993D1@easytree.net> References: <3FD08AD0.8080206@centtech.com> <3FD08FD3.D55993D1@easytree.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: doc / doc-bugs split? X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:51:58 -0000 On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:01:55 -0500 Peter Serwe wrote: > That's a much loved idea from this side of the world >=20 > Eric Anderson wrote: >=20 > > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > > > >How would people feel about splitting -doc into -doc and -doc-bugs > > >like the ports people did with -ports? Since I'm mainly a src > > >committer and my time and resources are limited, I'd like to be able > > >to keep track of infrastructure discussions without having to wade > > >through bug reports. > > > > > > > > I was just thinking the same thing about 2 days ago.. I like it! >=20 I'd support your idea DES! --=20 Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 15:45:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E39416A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from natsmtp01.rzone.de (natsmtp01.rzone.de [81.169.145.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA5543F3F for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from webmaster@dhamma-art.de) Received: from dhamma-art.de (dsl-213-023-023-072.arcor-ip.net [213.23.23.72]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB5MmuZW013302 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 00:45:12 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 00:45:13 +0100 Mime-version: 1.0 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCdiger Frank?= To: Message-Id: <126045.CEWPVWPQ@dhamma-art.de> X-Mailer: MBM v2.8-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: original oilpainting: Buddhaportrait X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: info@buddhist-art.net List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 23:45:16 -0000 A unique present for your dearest ones! "Germani Muni Maitreya" This is the illustration of an oil painting of Tilop=E2 Monk=2E It is painted= in the glaze technique of the old masters=2E Size: 100 x 80 cm on canvas=2E Nowadays this expensive technique still is only mastered by few artists=2E Tilop=E2 Monk worked on the picture approx=2E 3 months=2E Since it is a single = work, it also only can be purchased by one person=2E Go here (or click on the jpeg) to the web page which was set up for the pic= ture=2E There you can download a jpeg in a high resolution and you learn how = you can become the only owner of the orginal=2E info@buddhist-art=2Enet From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 16:01:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F334C16A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:01:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [129.250.170.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4420043F93 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:01:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (200-193-225-198.bsace705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.193.225.198]) by newsguy.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB601jrP085144 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Message-ID: <3FD11C69.2090004@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:01:45 -0200 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: docs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Staff X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 00:01:50 -0000 While researching for a presentation, it came to my attention that Ken Smith is not listed on http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/contributors/staff-who.html. AFAIK, he is the mirror sites coordinator. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@banana.bsdconspiracy.net I'd like to work for something named "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms". From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 21:50:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F7B16A4CE; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:50:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9221E43FBF; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (trhodes@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB65oEFY075838; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from trhodes@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB65oEaG075834; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:50:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Rhodes Message-Id: <200312060550.hB65oEaG075834@freefall.freebsd.org> To: trhodes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, trhodes@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/56894: umass man page: "mount -t msdos" instead of "ufs" X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:50:19 -0000 Synopsis: umass man page: "mount -t msdos" instead of "ufs" Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->trhodes Responsible-Changed-By: trhodes Responsible-Changed-When: Fri Dec 5 21:49:31 PST 2003 Responsible-Changed-Why: Your suggestion of adding a note might be a good idea. I'll take this. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=56894 From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 6 08:00:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C531416A4CE for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2621243FE5 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB6G0aFY009858 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:00:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB6G0aGm009857; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:00:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Resent-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:00:36 -0800 (PST) Resent-Message-Id: <200312061600.hB6G0aGm009857@freefall.freebsd.org> Resent-From: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org (GNATS Filer) Resent-To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Resent-Reply-To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Erik Greenwald Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDED916A4CE for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 07:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.smluc.org (phoenix.smluc.org [12.28.48.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C61D643FD7 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 07:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from erik@phoenix.smluc.org) Received: (qmail 6748 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Dec 2003 15:57:42 -0000 Message-Id: <20031206155742.6747.qmail@phoenix.smluc.org> Date: 6 Dec 2003 15:57:42 -0000 From: Erik Greenwald To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 cc: erik@smluc.org Subject: docs/59991: diff manpage lacks a return value section X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Erik Greenwald List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:00:45 -0000 >Number: 59991 >Category: docs >Synopsis: diff manpage lacks a return value section >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Dec 06 08:00:36 PST 2003 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Erik Greenwald >Release: FreeBSD 5.2-BETA i386 >Organization: >Environment: System: FreeBSD fenris 5.2-BETA FreeBSD 5.2-BETA #0: Fri Nov 28 06:07:45 EST 2003 root@fenris:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/FENRIS i386 >Description: No text indicates what return values to expect from diff... >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: --- diff.1.patch begins here --- --- gnu/usr.bin/diff/diff.1.orig Sat Dec 6 10:48:42 2003 +++ gnu/usr.bin/diff/diff.1 Sat Dec 6 10:54:16 2003 @@ -474,6 +474,10 @@ .TP .B \-y Use the side by side output format. +.SH RETURN VALUE +.I diff +returns a 0 if the files are identical or a 1 if the files differ. If one or +both of the files cannot be opened, then the return value is set to 2. .SH ENVIRONMENT The environment variable .B DIFF_OPTIONS --- diff.1.patch ends here --- >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 6 12:38:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3831B16A4CF for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EFDC43FE0 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:38:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([192.168.0.5]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB6KcGaJ005071 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:38:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:38:15 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20031206153815.1a9cbd9e.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Out of town X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:38:24 -0000 Greetings team, I will be out of town from this evening until perhaps Monday afternoon. While it isn't a big deal, I just want everyone to know that I have not dropped the front page work. Expect a discussion on this sometime Monday. Thanks! -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 6 14:00:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D1E16A4CE; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 14:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.19.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC68F43FB1; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 14:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (adsl-64-142-31-106.sonic.net [64.142.31.106])hB6M0ENu020681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Dec 2003 14:00:14 -0800 Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (bmah@localhost [127.0.0.1]) hB6M0DO0012690; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 14:00:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Message-Id: <200312062200.hB6M0DO0012690@intruder.kitchenlab.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.6.3 04/04/2003 with nmh-1.0.4 To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org From: bmah@freebsd.org (Bruce A. Mah) X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-15773070P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 14:00:13 -0800 Sender: bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org cc: bmah@freebsd.org Subject: HEADSUP: doc/ slush begins on 8 December X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:00:18 -0000 --==_Exmh_-15773070P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just a note that the doc/ slush begins on 8 December, which is two days from now. The purpose of the doc/ slush is to slow down the rate of change in that tree in order to allow translation teams time to finalize their work for 5.2-RELEASE. As usual, this is not a hard freeze (as is the case for ports/ and src/), and there is no formal commit approval procedure. Let common sense prevail (fixing a misspelling is probably OK, but reorganizing the FAQ is not). (Note: The 5.2 release schedule originally stated a somewhat stronger freeze. This was an error...I have corrected it, but as we all know it takes awhile for changes to propagate to the Web site.) Tagging of doc/ is scheduled to take place on 12 December. Thanks for your cooperation and keep up the great work! Bruce. --==_Exmh_-15773070P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5+ 20020506 iD8DBQE/0lFt2MoxcVugUsMRAkX/AKDrYTxnFJjJ1kK5Hy+IrB2cHbJWKwCg2V1D ksGJ/Sw74JJOUY48S8JTAiA= =Bh05 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_-15773070P-- From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 6 17:24:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9F716A4CE for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.freebsd.org (www.freebsd.org [216.136.204.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA0543FBF for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:24:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from www@FreeBSD.org) Received: from www.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB71OHxP078948 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:24:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from www@www.freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by www.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hB71OHTO078947 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:24:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from www) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:24:17 -0800 (PST) From: World Wide Web Owner Message-Id: <200312070124.hB71OHTO078947@www.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD web build failed on www.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Documentation project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 01:24:18 -0000 ===> releases/5.0R ===> releases/5.0R/DP1 ===> releases/5.0R/DP2 ===> releases/5.1R ===> releases/5.2R /usr/bin/sed -e 's///' schedule.sgml | /usr/bin/env SGML_CATALOG_FILES= /usr/local/bin/sgmlnorm -d -c /usr/local/share/sgml/html/catalog -D /w/www/build/www/en/releases/5.2R > schedule.html || (/bin/rm -f schedule.html && false) /usr/local/bin/tidy -i -m -raw -preserve -f /dev/null -asxml schedule.html *** Error code 1 (ignored) ===> releng ===> smp ===> kse ===> gnome /usr/local/bin/xsltproc -o index.html /w/www/build/www/en/gnome/index.xsl /w/www/build/www/en/gnome/news.xml /usr/local/bin/tidy -i -m -raw -preserve -f /dev/null -asxml index.html ===> gnome/docs ===> gnome/images *** Error code 1 (ignored) ===> donations ===> ports cd /w/www/build/www/en/ports; make -f /w/www/build/www/en/ports/Makefile.inc0 all ===> doc ===> doc/articles ===> doc/articles/5-roadmap ===> doc/articles/checkpoint ===> doc/articles/committers-guide ===> doc/articles/console-server ===> doc/articles/contributing ===> doc/articles/contributors /usr/local/bin/jade -V html-manifest -ioutput.html -d /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/../../../share/sgml/default.dsl -V %generate-legalnotice-link% -V %generate-article-toc% -V %generate-docformat-navi-link% -ioutput.html.images -D /usr/obj/w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors -c /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/../../../en_US.ISO8859-1/share/sgml/catalog -c /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/../../../share/sgml/catalog -c /usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/dsssl/modular/catalog -c /usr/local/share/sgml/iso8879/catalog -c /usr/local/share/sgml/docbook/catalog -c /usr/local/share/sgml/jade/catalog -c /usr/local/share/sgml/catalog.ports -t sgml /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/article.sgml /usr/local/bin/jade:/w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/contrib.additional.sgml:1588:11:E: element "APRA" undefined /usr/local/bin/jade:/w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/contrib.additional.sgml:1589:53:E: end tag for element "PARA" which is not open /usr/local/bin/jade:/w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/contrib.additional.sgml:1590:14:E: end tag for "APRA" omitted, but its declaration does not permit this /usr/local/bin/jade:/w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/contrib.additional.sgml:1588:6: start tag was here /usr/local/bin/jade:/w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/contrib.additional.sgml:1590:14:E: end tag for "LISTITEM" which is not finished *** Error code 1 Stop in /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors. *** Error code 1 Stop in /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles. *** Error code 1 Stop in /w/www/build/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1. *** Error code 1 Stop in /w/www/build/www/en/doc. *** Error code 1 Stop in /w/www/build/www/en. 30.62 real 15.70 user 3.03 sys