From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 02:16:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5747C16A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.28.27.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A60443FE3 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])h7V9Fkgh086457; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:15:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jeremyp@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h7V9FimW086456; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:15:44 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:15:44 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Message-ID: <20030831091544.GA86421@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <20030830221458.GC85746@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> <20030830230628.98508.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030830230628.98508.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: kientzle@acm.org Subject: Re: Non-executable mappings now in NetBSD too X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:16:01 -0000 On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 12:06:28AM +0100, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >> Emacs and perl both use traditional bytecode interpreters, as does the >> Classic JVM. I agree they will be unaffected. This change will only >> impact JIT JVMs. > >Well, we only have a JIT JVM for the i386, and on the particular case of the >i386 we cannot enforce full protection anyways so there is probably a >workaround if we do need it. Based on some recent BUGTRAQ postings, OpenBSD has a trick to support full protection on the i386. The text segment and executable part of shared libraries are placed at low virtual addresses and CS is restricted to only cover the low address space. I don't know whether it's worthwhile to implement something along these lines in FreeBSD. Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 03:33:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE7516A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cicero2.cybercity.dk (cicero2.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004D243F93 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from db@traceroute.dk) Received: from user2.cybercity.dk (fxp0.user2.ip.cybercity.dk [212.242.41.35]) by cicero2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772C118F99C for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:33:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from main (port132.ds1-arsy.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.239.73]) by user2.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 10E3E18623 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:33:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:34:26 +0200 From: Socketd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030831123426.24af6479.db@traceroute.dk> In-Reply-To: <3F617228@webmail.kent.edu> References: <3F617228@webmail.kent.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: HOW TO RETREIVE DATA FROM KERNEL. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:33:42 -0000 On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:55:06 -0400 Sandeep Kumar Davu wrote: > I was wondering how to retreive data from the kernel if I wanna. I > want TCP option(if any) to let the application know about that. Can u > please tell me if there is any way that I can do it without adding any > additional code. If I need to add it sould you please tell me the > easiest way to do that. Something like "man 3 sysctl"? br socketd From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 05:28:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7A416A4C0 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kjkoster.org (213-84-106-195.adsl.xs4all.nl [213.84.106.195]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A8643FCB for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:28:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kjkoster@kjkoster.org) Received: from kjkoster.org (LikeEver [192.168.0.1]) by www.kjkoster.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7VCSkW1010236 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:28:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kjkoster@kjkoster.org) Sender: kjkoster@www.kjkoster.org Message-ID: <3F51E9FE.99723515@kjkoster.org> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:28:46 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Just a quick thank you... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:28:49 -0000 Dear All, I'd like to thank you guys for the great work. FreeBSD is getting better with every release. A few weeks ago I replaced my motherboard with something marginally faster (from a 650MHz Athlon to a 1800+ one, a really minor upgrade). FreeBSD accepted the change without even blinking its virtual eyes. Windows took about ten reboots to get back into some form of working state. Some Windows games still can't switch video mode, even though I never changed the video card. In particular, Windows still fails to detect my on-board sound card, which FreeBSD picked up without so much as a kernel recompile. There used to be a time when this was the other way around. The next step for Windows would to be able to deal with new hardware without doing an installation from scratch. The next step for FreeBSD would to be able to replace the motherboard without shutting down the machine. :-) Yours, Kees Jan --------------------------------------------------------------- Kees Jan Koster e-mail: kjkoster "at" kjkoster.org www: http://www.kjkoster.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Life is uncertain; eat dessert first. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 05:36:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419A216A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.co.ru (mail1.co.ru [194.85.128.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E75143FE3 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd1@centrum.cz) Received: from mailhub.co.ru ([194.85.128.15] verified) by mail1.co.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 37915324 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:36:38 +0400 Received: from 195.16.34.11 (n3-11.dialup.co.ru [195.16.34.11]) by mailhub.co.ru (8.12.9/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h7VCaaW3021261 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:36:38 +0400 (MSD) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:36:40 +0400 From: Buckie X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62r) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1389653205.20030831163640@centrum.cz> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3F51E9FE.99723515@kjkoster.org> References: <3F51E9FE.99723515@kjkoster.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Just a quick thank you... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Buckie List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:36:42 -0000 KJK> The next step for Windows would to be able to deal with new hardware KJK> without doing an installation from scratch. The next step for FreeBSD KJK> would to be able to replace the motherboard without shutting down the KJK> machine. :-) Yeah... a hot-pluggable (swappable) motherboard! Kewl. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 05:48:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB5216A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8806C43FB1 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:48:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7VCmHmg000330; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7VCmH0a000329; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:17 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Buckie Message-ID: <20030831124817.GA314@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <3F51E9FE.99723515@kjkoster.org> <1389653205.20030831163640@centrum.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1389653205.20030831163640@centrum.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.9-PRERELEASE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Just a quick thank you... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:48:21 -0000 On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 04:36:40PM +0400, Buckie wrote: > KJK> The next step for Windows would to be able to deal with new hardware > KJK> without doing an installation from scratch. The next step for FreeBSD > KJK> would to be able to replace the motherboard without shutting down the > KJK> machine. :-) > > > Yeah... a hot-pluggable (swappable) motherboard! Kewl. Port FreeBSD to the Tandem machines.. -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 06:13:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D5E16A4C0; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.tiscali.de (relay1.tiscali.de [62.26.116.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97A443FE5; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from walter@pelissero.de) Received: from daemon.home.loc (62.246.38.181) by webmail.tiscali.de (6.7.019) id 3F2FA20100793953; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:13:41 +0200 Received: from hyde.home.loc (hyde.home.loc [10.0.0.2]) by daemon.home.loc (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7VDD2jl000688; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:13:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wcp@hyde.home.loc) Received: from hyde.home.loc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hyde.home.loc (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7VDCuZf000710; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:12:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wcp@hyde.home.loc) Received: (from wcp@localhost) by hyde.home.loc (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h7VDCSQR000704; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:12:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wcp) From: "Walter C. Pelissero" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16209.62524.183726.612751@hyde.home.loc> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:12:28 +0200 To: Bruce M Simpson In-Reply-To: <20030830120438.GA29217@spc.org> References: <16208.36799.970894.848331@hyde.home.loc> <20030830120438.GA29217@spc.org> X-Mailer: VM 7.16 under Emacs 21.3.50.2 X-Attribution: WP cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB -> PS/2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: walter@pelissero.de List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:13:44 -0000 Ok, today I spent some time deciphering the ums log and came up with this patch. --- /sys/dev/usb/ums.c Wed Nov 6 21:23:50 2002 +++ ums.c Sun Aug 31 15:08:52 2003 @@ -428,10 +428,8 @@ } ibuf = sc->sc_ibuf; - if (sc->sc_iid) { - if (*ibuf++ != sc->sc_iid) - return; - } + if (sc->sc_iid) + ibuf++; dx = hid_get_data(ibuf, &sc->sc_loc_x); dy = -hid_get_data(ibuf, &sc->sc_loc_y); Unfortunately my knowledge (or rather lack of it) of the USB/UMS driver doesn't give me very much confidence that I didn't break something else. What was that conditional return suposed to protect from? Is it safe to remove it? The PS/2 mouse works now and the USB one as well. Cheers, -- walter pelissero http://www.pelissero.de Bruce M Simpson writes: > On Sat, Aug 30, 2003 at 01:51:27PM +0200, Walter C. Pelissero wrote: > > I just bought a USB -> PS/2 keyboard and mouse converter for my > > laptop. It's a Sitecom brand and it gets recognised as MCT Corp. > > I had similar problems with a Tangtop USB->PS/2 k+m adapter. > > In the end it turned out that this device was causing uhci to report > an error, even though the movement data coming in looked fine. I never > got round to fixing it. > > Perhaps you could try throwing all the debug switches on in the usb drivers > and usbd and seeing if you get similar behaviour? > > Thanks for the patch, this was the other thing that needed fixing! > > BMS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 09:12:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5242416A4BF; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.tiscali.de (relay1.tiscali.de [62.26.116.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB4443F75; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from walter@pelissero.de) Received: from daemon.home.loc (62.246.38.160) by webmail.tiscali.de (6.7.019) id 3F42A6F5003AFA7C; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:12:10 +0200 Received: from hyde.home.loc (hyde.home.loc [10.0.0.2]) by daemon.home.loc (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7VGAojl000972; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:10:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wcp@hyde.home.loc) Received: from hyde.home.loc (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hyde.home.loc (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7VGAmZf051409; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:10:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wcp@hyde.home.loc) Received: (from wcp@localhost) by hyde.home.loc (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h7VGAkGK051406; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:10:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wcp) From: "Walter C. Pelissero" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16210.7684.367963.11923@hyde.home.loc> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:10:44 +0200 To: Bruce M Simpson In-Reply-To: <20030830120438.GA29217@spc.org> References: <16208.36799.970894.848331@hyde.home.loc> <20030830120438.GA29217@spc.org> X-Mailer: VM 7.16 under Emacs 21.3.50.2 X-Attribution: WP cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB -> PS/2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: walter@pelissero.de List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:12:12 -0000 Just noticed that the patch to usbd.c I proposed yesterday shows an undesirable behaviour. That is, usbd executes the actions in usbd.conf of all matching devices, which is not exactly what I meant to do. In fact, usbd should execute for every device name the "best" matching action in usbd.conf. Supposed usbd.conf is sorted in a way that the most specific entries precede the less specific ones, the following patch should do the trick. Cheers, -- walter pelissero http://www.pelissero.de --- usbd.c.orig Sun Aug 31 17:24:14 2003 +++ usbd.c Sun Aug 31 17:08:19 2003 @@ -102,6 +102,7 @@ int lineno; int verbose = 0; /* print message on what it is doing */ +int single_action = 0; typedef struct event_name_s { int type; /* event number (from usb.h) */ @@ -204,8 +205,7 @@ void print_event __P((struct usb_event *event)); void print_action __P((action_t *action, int i)); void print_actions __P((void)); -int find_action __P((struct usb_device_info *devinfo, - action_match_t *action_match)); +void execute_command __P((char *cmd)); void @@ -674,37 +674,19 @@ int -match_devname(action_t *action, struct usb_device_info *devinfo) +match_devname(regex_t *regex, char *name) { - int i; - regmatch_t match; - int error; - - for (i = 0; i < USB_MAX_DEVNAMES; i++) { - if (devinfo->udi_devnames[i][0] == '\0') - break; - - error = regexec(&action->devname_regex, devinfo->udi_devnames[i], - 1, &match, 0); - if (error == 0) { - if (verbose >= 2) - printf("%s: %s matches %s\n", __progname, - devinfo->udi_devnames[i], action->devname); - return(i); - } - } - - return(-1); + return regexec(regex, name, 0, 0, 0) == 0; } - -int -find_action(struct usb_device_info *devinfo, action_match_t *action_match) +void +execute_actions (struct usb_device_info *devinfo, int event_type) { action_t *action; char *devname = NULL; - int match = -1; + int i; + for (i = 0; i < USB_MAX_DEVNAMES && devinfo->udi_devnames[i][0] != '\0'; i++) { STAILQ_FOREACH(action, &actions, next) { if ((action->vendor == WILDCARD_INT || action->vendor == devinfo->udi_vendorNo) && @@ -719,15 +701,15 @@ (action->protocol == WILDCARD_INT || action->protocol == devinfo->udi_protocol) && (action->devname == WILDCARD_STRING || - (match = match_devname(action, devinfo)) != -1)) { - /* found match !*/ - + match_devname(&action->devname_regex, devinfo->udi_devnames[i]))) { + if (verbose >= 2) + print_action(action, 0); /* Find a devname for pretty printing. Either * the matched one or otherwise, if there is only * one devname for that device, use that. */ - if (match >= 0) - devname = devinfo->udi_devnames[match]; + if (action->devname != WILDCARD_STRING) + devname = devinfo->udi_devnames[i]; else if (devinfo->udi_devnames[0][0] != '\0' && devinfo->udi_devnames[1][0] == '\0') /* if we have exactly 1 device name */ @@ -742,16 +724,37 @@ printf("\n"); } - action_match->action = action; - action_match->devname = devname; + if (devname) { + int error; + if (verbose >= 2) + printf("%s: Setting DEVNAME='%s'\n", + __progname, devname); + error = setenv("DEVNAME", devname, 1); + if (error) + fprintf(stderr, "%s: setenv(\"DEVNAME\", + \"%s\",1) failed, %s\n", + __progname, devname, strerror(errno)); + } - return(1); + if (USB_EVENT_IS_ATTACH(event_type) && action->attach) + execute_command(action->attach); + if (USB_EVENT_IS_DETACH(event_type) && action->detach) + execute_command(action->detach); + /* We are done if either we are + * running in single action mode or we + * didn't match the device name, that + * is, we have a catch-all entry for + * the particular USB device. */ + if (single_action || action->devname == WILDCARD_STRING) + return; + /* get on to the next device name */ + break; + } } } - - return(0); } + void execute_command(char *cmd) { @@ -881,30 +884,7 @@ break; case USB_EVENT_DEVICE_ATTACH: case USB_EVENT_DEVICE_DETACH: - if (find_action(&event.u.ue_device, &action_match) == 0) - /* nothing found */ - break; - - if (verbose >= 2) - print_action(action_match.action, 0); - - if (action_match.devname) { - if (verbose >= 2) - printf("%s: Setting DEVNAME='%s'\n", - __progname, action_match.devname); - - error = setenv("DEVNAME", action_match.devname, 1); - if (error) - fprintf(stderr, "%s: setenv(\"DEVNAME\", \"%s\",1) failed, %s\n", - __progname, action_match.devname, strerror(errno)); - } - - if (USB_EVENT_IS_ATTACH(event.ue_type) && - action_match.action->attach) - execute_command(action_match.action->attach); - if (USB_EVENT_IS_DETACH(event.ue_type) && - action_match.action->detach) - execute_command(action_match.action->detach); + execute_actions(&event.u.ue_device, event.ue_type); break; case USB_EVENT_DRIVER_ATTACH: if (verbose) @@ -944,7 +924,7 @@ } } - while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "c:def:nt:v")) != -1) { + while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "c:def:nst:v")) != -1) { switch(ch) { case 'c': configfile = strdup(optarg); @@ -965,6 +945,9 @@ break; case 'n': handle_events = 0; + break; + case 's': + single_action = 1; break; case 't': itimeout = atoi(optarg); From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 09:31:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7D216A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467FE4400D for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:31:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 19tV76-0006UH-02; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:31:40 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h7VFosAk057447 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:50:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7VFos1p057446 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:50:54 +0200 (CEST) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:50:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20030830203415.54268.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> <3F510CFD.1070400@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Non-executable mappings now in NetBSD too X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:31:45 -0000 Tim Kientzle wrote: > The OpenBSD work on tightening up read/write/exec memory permissions > looks interesting, but I wonder what impact it has on > JIT technologies; do the current Java VMs or other incremental > compilation engines require write+exec? You can disable W^X for individual executables (ld -Z). -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 09:52:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C57BD16A4BF; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1518C43FB1; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:52:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from 209-6-102-154.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com ([209.6.102.154] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 19tVR5-0001Cr-00; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:52:19 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16210.10178.513524.898335@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:52:18 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <16209.62524.183726.612751@hyde.home.loc> References: <16208.36799.970894.848331@hyde.home.loc> <20030830120438.GA29217@spc.org> <16209.62524.183726.612751@hyde.home.loc> X-Mailer: VM 7.11 under 21.5 (beta13) "cauliflower" XEmacs Lucid cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB -> PS/2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:52:20 -0000 Walter C. Pelissero writes: > Ok, today I spent some time deciphering the ums log and came up > with this patch. deletia > Unfortunately my knowledge (or rather lack of it) of the USB/UMS > driver doesn't give me very much confidence that I didn't break > something else. > > What was that conditional return suposed to protect from? > Is it safe to remove it? The accepted way of finding out would be to do a send-pr to bring it to the formal attention of the usual suspects. (I can't seem to find an appropriate item - anyone got suggestions?) Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 10:28:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA2C16A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web41809.mail.yahoo.com (web41809.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A6EAF43FBD for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:28:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neoninternet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030831172814.35380.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.2.118.193] by web41809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:28:14 PDT Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:28:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Bockman To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Filesystem problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:28:15 -0000 Hi. I have been experencing some filesystem problems for the last month or so. I was running 4.8-STABLE and updated to 5.1-RELEASE-p2. While I was running 4.8 and I tried to run a command that required hard disk activity, the process would 'hang' and I would no longer be able to ssh or telnet in. I would get stuck after typing in my login. Running 5.1 is a different story. I did a low level format of the drive then I did a clean install of 5.1-RELEASE and cvsup'd to -p2. Every time I do this, it's great for a day or so then it acts up. Before after it started, even if I rebooted it would immediately start up. On 5.1, it is only hanging for that process and everything else is fine. I can still login, webserver responds, etc. Here is a little info: FreeBSD devel.neoninternet.net 5.1-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE-p2 #0: Sat Aug 23 20:12:41 PDT 2003 kevin@devel.ph.cox.net:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/SLURPEE i386 CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2600+ (2086.51-MHz 686-class CPU) real memory = 1073676288 (1023 MB) ad0: 117246MB [238216/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA133 root 1173 0.0 0.1 1436 916 p3 D+ 6:38PM 0:00.00 man vmstat root 784 0.0 0.1 752 636 d0 D 4:34PM 0:00.02 make all DIRPRFX=i386/libi386/ root 847 0.0 0.0 312 212 d0 D 4:34PM 0:00.00 (cc) root 848 0.0 0.3 4104 3488 d0 D 4:34PM 0:00.01 (cc1) root 849 0.0 0.1 928 668 d0 D 4:34PM 0:00.00 /usr/bin/as -o comconsole.o - last pid: 1252; load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 up 0+02:37:22 19:04:48 64 processes: 1 running, 63 sleeping CPU states: 0.0% user, 0.0% nice, 0.0% system, 0.0% interrupt, 100% idle Mem: 34M Active, 23M Inact, 38M Wired, 204K Cache, 22M Buf, 906M Free Swap: 2048M Total, 2048M Free devel# vmstat procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr ad0 da0 in sy cs us sy id 1 7 0 144612 928056 16 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 331 0 254 0 0 100 Anyone have any suggestions? I can not control-C out of 'man vmstat'. While doing 'make' in /usr/src/sys/boot it was hanging on as, when I restarted it, it got to i386/libi386 and will not do anything else. I'm running that through serial console, it let me ^C out of that. I tried going into single user mode and running umount, now it just sits there and I can't ^C. I have no ideas, this was all working yesterday!! :-) Any ideas on what else to check or other helpful hints would help bunches. Sorry for the cross-posts. Just not sure where to go with this one. Thanks, Kevin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 10:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58AFA16A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diaspar.rdsnet.ro (diaspar.rdsnet.ro [81.196.201.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F7C43FAF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Vlad.Galu@rdsnet.ro) Received: (qmail 44207 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2003 06:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO diaspar.rdsnet.ro) (81.196.201.65) by 0 with SMTP; 31 Aug 2003 06:02:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:02:22 +0300 From: Vlad Galu To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3F617228@webmail.kent.edu> References: <3F617228@webmail.kent.edu> Organization: Romania Data Systems X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030831173604.52F7C43FAF@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: HOW TO RETREIVE DATA FROM KERNEL. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:36:06 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:55:06 -0400 Sandeep Kumar Davu wrote: > Hi, > I was wondering how to retreive data from the kernel if I wanna. I want TCP > option(if any) to let the application know about that. Can u please tell me if > > there is any way that I can do it without adding any additional code. If I > need to add it sould you please tell me the easiest way to do that. > sysctl(3) > > > Sandeep. > > Sandeep Kumar Davu, > M.S. (Computer Science), > Kent State University, OH. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > - ------ Vlad Galu Network & Systems Administrator Romania Data Systems NOC in Bucharest Phone: +40 21 30 10 850 Web: http://www.rdsnet.ro PGP: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x53ABCE97 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such a case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQE/UY9uP5WtpVOrzpcRApt4AJj52TBFrtXkln0QH/E84UQLc9DzAJ9STrRQ h0CPhcTfDtzbHL8a963BeA== =JR7N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 12:13:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF12C16A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from planet.alastria.net (planet.alastria.net [66.111.42.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB39343FE1 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:13:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@alastria.net) Received: from CAESIUM.hilbre.org.uk (m7-mp1.n05.man.dial.ntli.net [217.137.176.7] (may be forged)) by planet.alastria.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with SMTP id h7VJD1cF049965 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:13:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from peter@alastria.net) From: Peter Wood To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:13:03 +0100 Organization: Alastria Networks Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Linking with -shared and -pthread... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:13:08 -0000 Good Evening, I've been looking at writing a program that uses both shared libraries (dlopen/dlclose) and POSIX threads. I however haven't had any success in = my simple tests. After doing some research via google I found that due to -shared pthreads wasn't linked into the shared library, fair enough, it's logical. My question is, is it possible to write programs that use pthreads in = their shared libraries on FreeBSD. =46or compiling the base program (that is the program that loads the = shared libraries) I've been using: gcc -export-dynamic -pthread master.c -o master And for each of the shared libaries I've been using: gcc -shared -pthread slave.c -o slave.so I had intended to use some form of message queue using a pthread = condition.=20 The sample C files I've been using can be located at: http://planet.alastria.net/~peter/hackers/master.c http://planet.alastria.net/~peter/hackers/slave.c Any light would be greatly apreciated, Cheers, Peter. --=20 Peter Wood :: Tel +44 7974 799440 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 12:19:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E40216A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webserver.get-linux.org (adsl-64-161-78-226.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.161.78.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7EDAC43FF7 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oremanj@webserver.get-linux.org) Received: (qmail 6548 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 2003 19:19:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:19:27 -0700 From: Joshua Oreman To: Peter Wood Message-ID: <20030831191927.GA6197@webserver> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linking with -shared and -pthread... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:19:29 -0000 On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 08:13:03PM +0100 or thereabouts, Peter Wood wrote: > Good Evening, > > I've been looking at writing a program that uses both shared libraries > (dlopen/dlclose) and POSIX threads. I however haven't had any success in my > simple tests. > > After doing some research via google I found that due to -shared pthreads > wasn't linked into the shared library, fair enough, it's logical. > > My question is, is it possible to write programs that use pthreads in their > shared libraries on FreeBSD. > > For compiling the base program (that is the program that loads the shared > libraries) I've been using: > > gcc -export-dynamic -pthread master.c -o master I use something like gcc -Wl,-export-dynamic master.c -o master -lc_r > > And for each of the shared libaries I've been using: > > gcc -shared -pthread slave.c -o slave.so I use gcc -shared -fPIC -DPIC slave.c -o slave.so The pthread functions from `master' will automatically be exported to `slave'. -- Josh From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 12:50:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC82916A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13403.mail.yahoo.com (web13403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D1DD43FE9 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030831195002.95875.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.216] by web13403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:50:02 BST Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:50:02 +0100 (BST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: Peter Jeremy In-Reply-To: <20030831091544.GA86421@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Non-executable mappings now in NetBSD too X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:50:03 -0000 --- Peter Jeremy wrote: ... > > Based on some recent BUGTRAQ postings, OpenBSD has a trick to support > full protection on the i386. The text segment and executable part of > shared libraries are placed at low virtual addresses and CS is > restricted to only cover the low address space. I don't know whether > it's worthwhile to implement something along these lines in FreeBSD. > I think we'll have to do it sooner or later simply because they do it ;). The issue is, of course, Linux emulation and backward compatibility. I think we could do the same but ignore the CS restriction if the user is trusted and running inside a jail. cheers, Pedro. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 16:18:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCC516A4C0 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F27643FE5 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RicardoMesquita@netcabo.pt) Received: from netcabo.pt ([81.84.157.10]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 1 Sep 2003 00:17:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3F52825F.1020409@netcabo.pt> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 00:18:55 +0100 From: Ricardo Mesquita User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030708 X-Accept-Language: pt, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2003 23:17:39.0140 (UTC) FILETIME=[12140840:01C37016] Subject: FreeBSD 5.1 + TeamSpeak 2.0.29.47 + Quake3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:18:59 -0000 FreeBSD 5.1 + TeamSpeak 2.0.29.47 + Quake3 ok so teamspeak its lovelly supported under Freebsd, congrats for the port mantainers and teamspeak developers i have this sound board builtin, code: pcm0: at io 0xd000, 0xd400 irq 5 bufsz 16384 (1p/1r/4v channels duplex default) i have virtual sound channels dsp0.0 dsp0.1 dsp0.2 dsp0.3 dsp0.4 dspW0.0 dspW0.1 dspW0.2 dspW0.3 dspW0.4 dspr0.0 with sysctl hw.snd.pcm0.vchans set to 4 sysctl hw.snd.maxautovchans set to 4 I had tryed tying Teamspeak to one specific device, like /dev/dsp0.3 and quake3 to /dev/dsp0.1 but that doesnt work. Either way one shoots back that the device is in use. I can play mp3s while on quake3, i can be on Teamspeak and watch a movie while on mplayer. I think its related to the way qk3 deals with sound device and mmap sys call. Another weird problem is passing +s_initsound 0 to disable the sound or passing another sound device that inst present (example /dev/dsp100) and while on TS, that will start the game without sound, you get into the GUI, menus etc, the map loads, but as soon you press move forward, backwards etc it crashes with a sig11. One solution would be releasing some euros to buy a better soundcard, one that can do hardware sound mixing, but as much i could imagine that will solve my problem i want to sort and try all options with this one. by the way the mobo is an asus a78nx-x. Any help or pointer in any direction will be appreciated thank you From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 19:25:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26DA716A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.eos.ocn.ne.jp (eos.ocn.ne.jp [211.6.83.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB2943FAF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp) Received: from mail.d.allbsd.org (p38078-adsao12honb4-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp [219.161.135.78]) by smtp.eos.ocn.ne.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71EF7E90 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:25:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (alph.allbsd.org [192.168.0.10]) h812NnIF062869 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:23:50 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:22:26 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20030901.112226.77454773.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <20030831.122219.15218794.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> References: <20030831.122219.15218794.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> X-PGPkey-fingerprint: BDB3 443F A5DD B3D0 A530 FFD7 4F2C D3D8 2793 CF2D X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: initstate() on FreeBSD/sparc64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 02:25:18 -0000 Hiroki Sato wrote in <20030831.122219.15218794.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp>: hrs> I noticed that initstate() caused memory corruption on hrs> FreeBSD/sparc64. I guess this is because lib/libc/stdlib/random.c hrs> assumes "long" is 32-bit long. Some suggested using int32_t/uint32_t instead of int if the routine makes an assumption that the size of long is 32-bit. Here is the revised patch. -- | Hiroki SATO / Index: stdlib/random.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/lib/libc/stdlib/random.c,v retrieving revision 1.23 diff -d -u -I\$FreeBSD:.*\$ -I\$NetBSD:.*\$ -I\$OpenBSD:.*\$ -I\$Id:.*\$ -I\$hrs:.*\$ -r1.23 random.c --- stdlib/random.c 10 Aug 2003 17:49:55 -0000 1.23 +++ stdlib/random.c 1 Sep 2003 02:11:49 -0000 @@ -61,10 +61,10 @@ * congruential generator. If the amount of state information is less than * 32 bytes, a simple linear congruential R.N.G. is used. * - * Internally, the state information is treated as an array of longs; the + * Internally, the state information is treated as an array of ints; the * zeroeth element of the array is the type of R.N.G. being used (small * integer); the remainder of the array is the state information for the - * R.N.G. Thus, 32 bytes of state information will give 7 longs worth of + * R.N.G. Thus, 32 bytes of state information will give 7 ints worth of * state information, which will allow a degree seven polynomial. (Note: * the zeroeth word of state information also has some other information * stored in it -- see setstate() for details). @@ -148,8 +148,8 @@ #define NSHUFF 50 /* to drop some "seed -> 1st value" linearity */ #endif /* !USE_WEAK_SEEDING */ -static long degrees[MAX_TYPES] = { DEG_0, DEG_1, DEG_2, DEG_3, DEG_4 }; -static long seps [MAX_TYPES] = { SEP_0, SEP_1, SEP_2, SEP_3, SEP_4 }; +static const int degrees[MAX_TYPES] = { DEG_0, DEG_1, DEG_2, DEG_3, DEG_4 }; +static const int seps [MAX_TYPES] = { SEP_0, SEP_1, SEP_2, SEP_3, SEP_4 }; /* * Initially, everything is set up as if from: @@ -165,7 +165,7 @@ * MAX_TYPES * (rptr - state) + TYPE_3 == TYPE_3. */ -static long randtbl[DEG_3 + 1] = { +static uint32_t randtbl[DEG_3 + 1] = { TYPE_3, #ifdef USE_WEAK_SEEDING /* Historic implementation compatibility */ @@ -200,8 +200,8 @@ * in the initialization of randtbl) because the state table pointer is set * to point to randtbl[1] (as explained below). */ -static long *fptr = &randtbl[SEP_3 + 1]; -static long *rptr = &randtbl[1]; +static uint32_t *fptr = &randtbl[SEP_3 + 1]; +static uint32_t *rptr = &randtbl[1]; /* * The following things are the pointer to the state information table, the @@ -213,11 +213,11 @@ * this is more efficient than indexing every time to find the address of * the last element to see if the front and rear pointers have wrapped. */ -static long *state = &randtbl[1]; -static long rand_type = TYPE_3; -static long rand_deg = DEG_3; -static long rand_sep = SEP_3; -static long *end_ptr = &randtbl[DEG_3 + 1]; +static uint32_t *state = &randtbl[1]; +static int rand_type = TYPE_3; +static int rand_deg = DEG_3; +static int rand_sep = SEP_3; +static uint32_t *end_ptr = &randtbl[DEG_3 + 1]; static inline long good_rand(long); @@ -270,14 +270,14 @@ srandom(x) unsigned long x; { - long i, lim; + int i, lim; - state[0] = x; + state[0] = (uint32_t)x; if (rand_type == TYPE_0) lim = NSHUFF; else { for (i = 1; i < rand_deg; i++) - state[i] = good_rand(state[i - 1]); + state[i] = (uint32_t)good_rand(state[i - 1]); fptr = &state[rand_sep]; rptr = &state[0]; lim = 10 * rand_deg; @@ -350,7 +350,7 @@ * * Returns a pointer to the old state. * - * Note: The Sparc platform requires that arg_state begin on a long + * Note: The Sparc platform requires that arg_state begin on an int * word boundary; otherwise a bus error will occur. Even so, lint will * complain about mis-alignment, but you should disregard these messages. */ @@ -361,12 +361,12 @@ long n; /* # bytes of state info */ { char *ostate = (char *)(&state[-1]); - long *long_arg_state = (long *) arg_state; + uint32_t *int_arg_state = (uint32_t *)(void *)arg_state; if (rand_type == TYPE_0) state[-1] = rand_type; else - state[-1] = MAX_TYPES * (rptr - state) + rand_type; + state[-1] = MAX_TYPES * (uint32_t)(rptr - state) + rand_type; if (n < BREAK_0) { (void)fprintf(stderr, "random: not enough state (%ld bytes); ignored.\n", n); @@ -393,13 +393,13 @@ rand_deg = DEG_4; rand_sep = SEP_4; } - state = (long *) (long_arg_state + 1); /* first location */ + state = (uint32_t *) (int_arg_state + 1); /* first location */ end_ptr = &state[rand_deg]; /* must set end_ptr before srandom */ - srandom(seed); + srandom((uint32_t)seed); if (rand_type == TYPE_0) - long_arg_state[0] = rand_type; + int_arg_state[0] = rand_type; else - long_arg_state[0] = MAX_TYPES * (rptr - state) + rand_type; + int_arg_state[0] = MAX_TYPES * (uint32_t)(rptr - state) + rand_type; return(ostate); } @@ -426,15 +426,15 @@ setstate(arg_state) char *arg_state; /* pointer to state array */ { - long *new_state = (long *) arg_state; - long type = new_state[0] % MAX_TYPES; - long rear = new_state[0] / MAX_TYPES; + uint32_t *new_state = (uint32_t *)(void *)arg_state; + uint32_t type = new_state[0] % MAX_TYPES; + uint32_t rear = new_state[0] / MAX_TYPES; char *ostate = (char *)(&state[-1]); if (rand_type == TYPE_0) state[-1] = rand_type; else - state[-1] = MAX_TYPES * (rptr - state) + rand_type; + state[-1] = MAX_TYPES * (uint32_t)(rptr - state) + rand_type; switch(type) { case TYPE_0: case TYPE_1: @@ -449,7 +449,7 @@ (void)fprintf(stderr, "random: state info corrupted; not changed.\n"); } - state = (long *) (new_state + 1); + state = (uint32_t *) (new_state + 1); if (rand_type != TYPE_0) { rptr = &state[rear]; fptr = &state[(rear + rand_sep) % rand_deg]; @@ -478,8 +478,8 @@ long random() { - long i; - long *f, *r; + uint32_t i; + uint32_t *f, *r; if (rand_type == TYPE_0) { i = state[0]; @@ -490,7 +490,8 @@ */ f = fptr; r = rptr; *f += *r; - i = (*f >> 1) & 0x7fffffff; /* chucking least random bit */ + /* chucking least random bit */ + i = (*f >> 1) & 0x7fffffff; if (++f >= end_ptr) { f = state; ++r; @@ -501,5 +502,5 @@ fptr = f; rptr = r; } - return(i); + return((long)i); } From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 31 23:03:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1151016A4BF for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7827343FE5 for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jtoung@arc.nasa.gov) Received: from h-68-164-90-98.snvacaid.covad.net ([68.164.90.98] helo=there) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19thmr-0003Xg-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:03:37 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Jerry Toung Organization: ARC To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:03:40 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200308312303.40555.jtoung@arc.nasa.gov> Subject: if_gre, ip_gre and the like (pseudo-interfaces) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:03:40 -0000 Hello hackers, for another purpose, I am trying to understand the relationship between=20 gre_input and the gre pseudo-device. My understanding is that gre_input is called by IP everytime it receives = a=20 packet with a gre headers which after some processing performs=20 IF_ENQUEUE(ifq,m) to put it back on the IPqueue so that higher protocol s= uch=20 TCP can do their thing. :-) I don't see how /dev/gre is ever used on receiving or sending, through =20 if_clone_attach??. Somebody educate me on my missing link. Thank you all, Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 04:40:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5797F16A4BF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.mail.ru (mx1.mail.ru [194.67.23.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6740643F85; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from weiv@mail.ru) Received: from [217.70.108.197] (port=1026 helo=p197.bass4.sinor.ru) by mx1.mail.ru with esmtp id 19tn2o-0005fC-00; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:40:27 +0400 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:58:43 +0700 From: Denis Troshin X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: Not detected cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Denis Troshin List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:40:28 -0000 Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other unix-systems) to an ugly monster. For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install require them. Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs exist on every base system!!! Is it possible in unix? Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 04:53:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F244016A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vivaldi.meteo.fr (vivaldi.meteo.fr [137.129.28.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EFF43FE9 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 04:53:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from igor.pokrovsky@cnrm.meteo.fr) Received: from cti825.cnrm.meteo.fr (localhost.meteo.fr [127.0.0.1]) LAA25048 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:52:57 GMT Received: from xdata.cnrm.meteo.fr (xdata.cnrm.meteo.fr [137.129.150.2]) NAA10277 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:52:55 +0200 (METDST) Received: from exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr (exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr [137.129.157.46]) by xdata.cnrm.meteo.fr with ESMTP (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.7.1) id NAA21258 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:53:20 +0200 (METDST) Received: from exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h81BpTB3000298 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:51:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from pokrovsi@exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr) Received: (from pokrovsi@localhost) by exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h81BpTIm000297 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:51:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:51:29 +0200 From: Igor Pokrovsky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030901115129.GA278@exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Accept-Language: ru X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AMaViS 0.2.1 (cti825/CNRM) Organization: METEO FRANCE(CNRM) Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Igor Pokrovsky List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:53:07 -0000 On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 04:58:43PM +0700, Denis Troshin wrote: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This > 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. What you propose? > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install > require them. Then don't install those packages :) > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! > Is it possible in unix? It is possible to write not bad application which will depend only on libc.so > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! Depends what programs do you mean. P.S. This discussing really belongs to chat ;-) -- Real World, The n.: 1. In programming, those institutions at which programming may be used in the same sentence as FORTRAN, COBOL, RPG, IBM, etc. 2. To programmers, the location of non-programmers and activities not related to programming. 3. A universe in which the standard dress is shirt and tie and in which a person's working hours are defined as 9 to 5. 4. The location of the status quo. 5. Anywhere outside a university. "Poor fellow, he's left MIT and gone into the real world." Used pejoratively by those not in residence there. In conversation, talking of someone who has entered the real world is not unlike talking about a deceased person. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 06:19:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD35E16A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-da-3.dns-solutions.net (mail-da-3.dns-solutions.net [69.12.112.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C426B43FF2 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ) Received: (qmail 89835 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2003 13:19:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO christabel.starbreaker.net) (matthew@starbreaker.net@209.113.233.11) by mail-da-3.dns-solutions.net - 209.113.233.11 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2003 13:19:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:19:42 -0400 From: Matthew Graybosch To: Denis Troshin Message-ID: <20030901131942.GA20141@christabel.starbreaker.net> References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:19:37 -0000 On 16:58 Mon 01 Sep , Denis Troshin wrote: > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! > > Is it possible in unix? > > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! If you want compact unix programs, don't use X apps or apps written in scripting languages like Perl and Python. FreeBSD by itself doesn't offer the monstrous APIs that Windows offers; it just offers an implementation of the standard C library (libc). As a result, stock FreeBSD is a very barebones environment. -- Matthew Graybosch http://www.starbreaker.net "The best way to lose an argument is to throw the first punch." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 07:42:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACE516A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 07:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unbreakable.homeunix.org (a213-22-141-83.netcabo.pt [213.22.141.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1214400E for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 07:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sub_0@netcabo.pt) From: Mario Freitas To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-pKSXAFFUQiPg4vPG55bM" Message-Id: <1062427379.15322.12.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:42:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: sub_0@netcabo.pt List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 14:42:49 -0000 --=-pKSXAFFUQiPg4vPG55bM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 10:58, Denis Troshin wrote: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This > 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. >=20 > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install > require them. >=20 > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? >=20 > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! >=20 > Is it possible in unix? >=20 > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " FreeBSD is not intended to be used as a desktop, it is the best option for firewall and Internet service features which do not require extra-packages (or a lot of them) by default. PS: Do you really need to compare windows "HUGE UGLY" and sluggish kernel with FreeBSD's? PS2:The monster has got a name, and it's not really a monster, is a daemon, it's "Chuck" ehehe Sincerely, --=20 M=E1rio Freitas (sub_0@netcabo.pt) N=FAcleo Portugu=EAs de FreeBSD (NPF) --=-pKSXAFFUQiPg4vPG55bM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA/U1rzmOO46MB/5oURAq6BAJ9G1wwVv8u0sqWxJjodWzcmfL3qxACggtAJ nyRRXPc+KOlHzsbB2VcwwMI= =/xPW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-pKSXAFFUQiPg4vPG55bM-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 08:24:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C8A16A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phoenix.gargantuan.com (rrcs-se-24-73-171-238.biz.rr.com [24.73.171.238]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9971743FF5 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michael@gargantuan.com) Received: from cyclops.gargantuan.com (cyclops.gargantuan.com [3ffe:c00:8034:a00::18]) by phoenix.gargantuan.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A421E2A6; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:31:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael W. Oliver" To: sub_0@netcabo.pt, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:23:25 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> <1062427379.15322.12.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> In-Reply-To: <1062427379.15322.12.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Boundary-02=_4R2U/9U5w94dvez"; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200309011123.36422.michael@gargantuan.com> Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: michael@gargantuan.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:24:22 -0000 --Boundary-02=_4R2U/9U5w94dvez Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: signed data Content-Disposition: inline +--- On Monday, September 01, 2003 10:42, | Mario Freitas proclaimed: | | PS: Do you really need to compare windows "HUGE UGLY" and sluggish | kernel with FreeBSD's? | PS2:The monster has got a name, and it's not really a monster, is a | daemon, it's "Chuck" ehehe | It isn't Chuck, though this myth persists on... http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/index.html =2D-=20 +--------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ | Michael W. Oliver, CCNP | "The tree of liberty must be re- | | IPv6 & FreeBSD mark | freshed from time to time with the| | http://michael.gargantuan.com/ | blood of patriots and tyrants." | |ASpath-tree, Looking Glass, etc.| - President Thomas Jefferson | | +-----------------------------------+ | gpg key - http://michael.gargantuan.com/gnupg/pubkey.asc | | perl -e 'print unpack("u", "7;6EC:&%E;\$!G87)G86YT=3D6%N+F-O;0H`");' | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ --Boundary-02=_4R2U/9U5w94dvez Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA/U2R4sWv7q8X6o8kRAjcnAJ9W+cwkDaFFv0YtJbgE4JJ9jmFa8gCgr2lW BDMX9QIOudeTY7zQwvdb+6U= =2Z4V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_4R2U/9U5w94dvez-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 08:25:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1110416A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frontend2.aha.ru (bird.zenon.net [213.189.198.215]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813C643FB1 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uitm@blackflag.ru) Received: from [195.2.90.70] (HELO slt.oz) by frontend2.aha.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 211376441 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:25:51 +0400 Received: (from uitm@localhost) by slt.oz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00479 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:28:36 +0400 (MSD) From: Andrey Alekseyev Message-Id: <200309011528.TAA00479@slt.oz> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:28:34 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ld-elf/libc problem? (was: php3/php4 problem) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:25:57 -0000 Hello, Two months ago, after a thorough tracking of commits to STABLE, I've built a 4.8-STABLE distribution. The distribution was built from sources cvsup'd on Jul 06, 2003 and was targeted to be an upgrade package for a large production site. While the customer was testing this distribution, a serious compatibility problem revealed. Namely, php3+php4 Apache dynamic modules combo stopped working. Perfectly stable before, this configuration always caused Apache to crash on 4.8-STABLE (Jul 06). Rebuilding Apache and php didn't help. Even with the simpliest config, Apache always failed when php3 and php4 were both enabled. I spent long hours reading through commit logs since 4.6.2 and I found a solution. It turns out that backing out the commits below and replacing certain ld-elf and libc source files with the appropriate old versions effectively solves php3+php4 dynamic modules configuration. Frankly speaking, I'm extremely suprised just nobody noticed this problem. All I could find were two postings from people in Germany. The customer I worked for, contacted them only to find they had given up and thrown their php3+php4 combo away. Btw, this commit "MFC: r1.69, support binaries with arbitrary number of PT_LOAD segments" probably also needs suitable modifications to the kernel RLIMIT_VMEM mechanism. Comments? Old versions checkout list: cvs co -r1.10.2.2 include/dlfcn.h cvs co -r1.20.2.1 include/link.h cvs co -r1.6 lib/libc/gen/dlfcn.c cvs co -r1.43.2.11 libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.c cvs co -r1.7 libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c cvs co -r1.3.2.2 libexec/rtld-elf/malloc.c cvs co -r1.15.2.5 libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.h cvs co -r1.73.2.12 sys/kern/imgact_elf.c cvs co -r1.20.2.1 sys/sys/link_elf.h cvs co -r1.16 sys/vm/vm.h Commits backed out: kan 2002/11/29 07:22:17 PST Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_4) libexec/rtld-elf rtld.c Log: MFC: r1.68 symbool lookup order change. Revision Changes Path 1.43.2.12 +12 -12 src/libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.c kan 2002/11/29 08:05:14 PST Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_4) libexec/rtld-elf map_object.c rtld.c Log: MFC: r1.69, support binaries with arbitrary number of PT_LOAD segments Revision Changes Path 1.7.2.1 +57 -39 src/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c 1.43.2.13 +1 -5 src/libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.c dillon 2002/12/28 11:49:41 PST Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_4) sys/vm vm.h sys/kern imgact_elf.c libexec/rtld-elf map_object.c Log: MFC ELF coredump handling fixes. Do not skip read-only pages unrelated to the binary image. Use NOCORE to differentiate between the two. Introduce a debug.elf_legacy_coredump sysctl which, if set, reverts to the old behavior. See the log message in sys/kern/imgact_elf.c 1.133. PR: kern/45994 Revision Changes Path 1.7.2.2 +23 -6 src/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c 1.73.2.13 +31 -11 src/sys/kern/imgact_elf.c 1.16.2.1 +2 -1 src/sys/vm/vm.h kan 2003/02/20 12:42:46 PST Modified files: (Branch: RELENG_4) include dlfcn.h link.h lib/libc/gen dlfcn.c libexec/rtld-elf malloc.c rtld.c rtld.h sys/sys link_elf.h Added files: (Branch: RELENG_4) lib/libc/gen dlinfo.3 Log: MFC: Properly remove unloaded objects from all lists. Implement dlinfo function. Aproved by: re (murray) Revision Changes Path 1.10.2.3 +35 -1 src/include/dlfcn.h 1.20.2.2 +14 -3 src/include/link.h 1.6.2.1 +9 -1 src/lib/libc/gen/dlfcn.c 1.3.2.1 +266 -0 src/lib/libc/gen/dlinfo.3 (new) 1.3.2.3 +18 -1 src/libexec/rtld-elf/malloc.c 1.43.2.15 +288 -56 src/libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.c 1.15.2.6 +3 -3 src/libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.h 1.20.2.2 +14 -3 src/sys/sys/link_elf.h From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 08:30:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2EBC16A4C0 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unbreakable.homeunix.org (a213-22-141-83.netcabo.pt [213.22.141.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C382143FCB for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:30:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sub_0@netcabo.pt) From: Mario Freitas To: michael@gargantuan.com In-Reply-To: <200309011123.36422.michael@gargantuan.com> References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> <1062427379.15322.12.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> <200309011123.36422.michael@gargantuan.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-uDYurPop6WfLytMoE7nF" Message-Id: <1062430218.15322.33.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:30:19 +0000 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: sub_0@netcabo.pt List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:30:07 -0000 --=-uDYurPop6WfLytMoE7nF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2003-09-01 at 15:23, Michael W. Oliver wrote: > +--- On Monday, September 01, 2003 10:42, > | Mario Freitas proclaimed: > | > | PS: Do you really need to compare windows "HUGE UGLY" and sluggish > | kernel with FreeBSD's? > | PS2:The monster has got a name, and it's not really a monster, is a > | daemon, it's "Chuck" ehehe > | >=20 > It isn't Chuck, though this myth persists on... >=20 > http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/index.html Thanks for the correction, I really didn't know "Chuck" was a wrong name for the beastie. --=20 M=E1rio Freitas (sub_0@netcabo.pt) N=FAcleo Portugu=EAs de FreeBSD (NPF) --=-uDYurPop6WfLytMoE7nF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA/U2YKmOO46MB/5oURAphmAJ95WBUJlHefPQ+fF3CU2VDDzrKr6QCffM7W hu+leo0/4WLHSSeU7yB3dwE= =xOft -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-uDYurPop6WfLytMoE7nF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 08:50:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF2216A4BF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07CC4400B; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h81FofQI049633; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:50:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:50:41 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Denis Troshin Message-ID: <20030901155041.GA68823@dan.emsphone.com> References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:50:43 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 01), Denis Troshin said: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. > This 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. > > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I > install require them. > > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications > which depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these > libs exist on every base system!!! Windows has the same problems. Are you seriously saying you've never had to download a vbrun*.dll to get a Windows program that required Visual Basic to run? Or maybe had to download one of the many patches that afflict the MS Java implementation? > Is it possible in unix? Of course. Most programs in the ports tree are standalone. 95% of the programs in the base system are standalone. > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! Some are huge, some are small. There are a lot of Windows programs that are huge too (MS Word, for example). -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 11:44:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6F616A4BF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D488543FBD; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:44:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011A91FEA8; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:44:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 12036-02-10; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:44:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 643311FE22; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:44:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6269E1C55F; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:44:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:44:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Denis Troshin In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Message-ID: <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wolves.k12.mo.us cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:44:28 -0000 On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, Denis Troshin wrote: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This > 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. At least the dependencies are taken care of for you automatically in FreeBSD, unlike some systems which require you to download and install each depedency manually. > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I > install require them. > > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications > which depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these > libs exist on every base system!!! I have to deal with creating internal distribution packages for all kinds of Windows software just about every day, and the dependencies for Windows software can be much worse, especially for Microsoft's own software which seems to be among the worst. Microsoft Office XP alone depends on (when installed on a base Windows 98SE installation), no less than Microsoft Installer 2.x (MSI), Internet Explorer 6, MDAC, and several other non-Office bits and pieces that don't come to mind right now. Granted, they are included in the Office XP installer and it will install all of this by itself if you don't have any of them installed, but they are indeed separate depedencies. I break as many depedencies as I possibly can out of a particular piece of software into separate distribution packages with their own dependency chains. The FreeBSD ports/packages system just happens to already do this to a high degree, because it is a good idea. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32, IA64, PC98, Alpha, and UltraSPARC architectures - x86-64, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org No trees were harmed in the composition of this message, although some electrons were mildly inconvenienced. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 12:43:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2531D16A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bogslab.ucdavis.edu (bogslab.ucdavis.edu [169.237.68.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215D43FA3 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:43:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from greg@bogslab.ucdavis.edu) Received: from thistle.bogs.org (thistle.bogs.org [198.137.203.61]) by bogslab.ucdavis.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h81JhM1T049567 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thistle.bogs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thistle.bogs.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h81JcYF14647 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from greg@thistle.bogs.org) Message-Id: <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org X-To: Chris Dillon X-Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:44:15 CDT." <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:38:34 -0700 From: Greg Shenaut Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:43:25 -0000 In nuntio <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us>, Chris Dillon divulgat: >I break as many depedencies as I possibly can out of a particular >piece of software into separate distribution packages with their own >dependency chains. The FreeBSD ports/packages system just happens to >already do this to a high degree, because it is a good idea. Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" can be installed at once. Greg Shenaut From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 13:04:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FAD16A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF1BD43FAF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RicardoMesquita@netcabo.pt) Received: from netcabo.pt ([81.84.157.10]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:01:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3F53A62E.4090605@netcabo.pt> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:03:58 +0100 From: Ricardo Mesquita User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030708 X-Accept-Language: pt, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> In-Reply-To: <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2003 20:01:34.0737 (UTC) FILETIME=[D85C5810:01C370C3] Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:04:07 -0000 Greg Shenaut wrote: > In nuntio <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us>, Chris Dillon divulgat: > >>I break as many depedencies as I possibly can out of a particular >>piece of software into separate distribution packages with their own >>dependency chains. The FreeBSD ports/packages system just happens to >>already do this to a high degree, because it is a good idea. > > > Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" > ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty > useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" > can be installed at once. > > Greg Shenaut /usr/ports/misc/instant-workstation ? that will install almost all deps you ever going to need =:) ricardo mesquita From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 13:35:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1C516A4BF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C29143FE1; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h81KYlrO075166; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:34:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h81KYlMf075163; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Denis Troshin In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:35:27 -0000 On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, Denis Troshin wrote: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This 'idea > of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other unix-systems) to > an ugly monster. > > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install > require them. > > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! > > Is it possible in unix? > > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! You've already got a boatload of responses, but I figured I'd throw in mine: it depends on the application. If applications require a scripting language, by virtue of what they do or how they are written, well, you get a scripting language in the dependencies. To get a Windows-like environment on FreeBSD, you need to layer the X server and then a toolkit/windowing environment on top -- my personal leaning right now is to stick QT/KDE on top. Once you have those pieces in place, you have a lot of what you need to write general-purpose applications interacting with users, the network, multimedia, etc. If you look at some of the "key" UNIX software packages, however, you'll see that they tend not to have a lot of dependencies -- Apache, Postgres, MySQL, etc. These applications avoid dependencies through less reliance on scripting, GUI elements, etc. One of the upsides, and downsides, of the open source world is a strong dependence on scripting, and the resulting diversification of scripting languages and rapid prototyping tools. This occurs in the Windows world also, though -- if you rely on Java, you need the JVM. If you have TCL applications, you need the TCL environment as well. Many web sites running on Windows use Perl for CGI just as they do in UNIX, in which case you need Perl... One of the nice things about this package-oriented approach is that the dependencies are generally very explicit: you want to write a gui app, so you need the gui pieces. Your application requires a back-end database, so a database dependency is introduced. In Windows, you have a larger "base" but less ability to decompose as a result. I'm also a bit alarmed when I install a new application and pick up two new scripting languages along the way -- I tend to avoid installing applications that pull in scripting as a dependency. However, sometimes that's unavoidable. In Windows, I think you'll find applications depend on more in the way of libraries than you think, though... Upgrades to system dlls when you build and install applications are not infrequent -- application vendors tend to "quietly bundle" all the dependent runtime components and quietly install them.... Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 13:43:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB6416A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from planet.alastria.net (planet.alastria.net [66.111.42.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C019743FEA for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@alastria.net) Received: from CAESIUM.hilbre.org.uk (m11-mp2.n13.man.dial.ntli.net [217.137.184.11] (may be forged)) by planet.alastria.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with SMTP id h81KhCcF038064 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:43:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from peter@alastria.net) From: Peter Wood To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:43:13 +0100 Organization: Alastria Networks Message-ID: References: <20030831191927.GA6197@webserver> In-Reply-To: <20030831191927.GA6197@webserver> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Linking with -shared and -pthread... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:43:18 -0000 Evenin, Heh after talking to Josh I released it was a rather stupid mistake, of = course "pthread_conf_wait" doesn't exist :). So just as a heads up there wasn't actually anything wrong. Okey, I'm gonna go crawl under a rock, Peter. --=20 Peter Wood :: Tel +44 7974 799440 On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:19:27 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 08:13:03PM +0100 or thereabouts, Peter Wood = wrote: >> Good Evening, >>=20 >> I've been looking at writing a program that uses both shared libraries >> (dlopen/dlclose) and POSIX threads. I however haven't had any success = in my >> simple tests. >>=20 >> After doing some research via google I found that due to -shared = pthreads >> wasn't linked into the shared library, fair enough, it's logical. >>=20 >> My question is, is it possible to write programs that use pthreads in = their >> shared libraries on FreeBSD. >>=20 >> For compiling the base program (that is the program that loads the = shared >> libraries) I've been using: >>=20 >> gcc -export-dynamic -pthread master.c -o master > >I use something like >gcc -Wl,-export-dynamic master.c -o master -lc_r > >>=20 >> And for each of the shared libaries I've been using: >>=20 >> gcc -shared -pthread slave.c -o slave.so > >I use >gcc -shared -fPIC -DPIC slave.c -o slave.so > >The pthread functions from `master' will automatically be exported to = `slave'. > >-- Josh >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 14:00:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE93F16A4BF; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A75043FF2; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38ldup2.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.251.34] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19tvm8-000698-00; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:59:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3F53B315.AF62B3FE@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:59:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Denis Troshin References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a44a07a95469f2da7ba88de27204a065283ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:00:07 -0000 Denis Troshin wrote: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This > 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. You're right. The authors of the offending software packages should not do that. It's going to be incredibly hard to get the FSF to quit using libibery, getline, gdb, etc., though. > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install > require them. Don't install those packages? Provide patches that remove the dependencies, if they are trivial? Rewrite the software from scratch, if the dependencirs turn out to be non-trivial? > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? Sure. Anything you are willing to write that doesn't do that. > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! I beg to differ. InstallShield has a tendency to install the NT version of CTL3D.DLL over top of the Windows 95/98 version, breaking things utterly (as one example). Also, CRTL32.DLL no longer ships with the base system, but it is required for a lot of runtime executable code. It was left out of the base system in order to force people to distribute it, and that was done to impose license restrictions on where the resulting code can be run (i.e. it's free to redistribute with your applications, so long as you only run them on a Microsoft OS -- see the VisualDevStudio license next time you get a chance). > Is it possible in unix? > > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! You're using the wrong programs. I'm going to guess you are installing Gnome or KDE or something like that that has a huge dependency list because it wants to have a huge feature list. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 14:24:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BB616A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [216.123.230.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E94C43FDF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h81LOFtE097894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h81LOCoH070356; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:24:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: Ricardo Mesquita In-Reply-To: <3F53A62E.4090605@netcabo.pt> Message-ID: <20030901152222.S70276@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> <3F53A62E.4090605@netcabo.pt> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:24:20 -0000 > > Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" > > ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty > > useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" > > can be installed at once. > /usr/ports/misc/instant-workstation ? Well, in theory: cd /usr/ports; make install clean should do it. Not that I recommend you actually try this ... --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 16:20:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF07D16A4C0; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Mail1.KONTENT.De (mail1.kontent.de [81.88.34.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8729343FF7; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:20:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listuser@mb-itconsulting.com) Received: from mb-itconsulting.com (pD9E3F4BA.dip.t-dialin.net [217.227.244.186]) by Mail1.KONTENT.De (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA39A1A390E; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 01:20:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F53D42A.9030108@mb-itconsulting.com> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 01:20:10 +0200 From: Martin Brecher User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Denis Troshin References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.73.1.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:20:20 -0000 First off, let me say that FreeBSD is one of the cleanest systems out there as the developers try to remove bigger packages from the base system instead of adding more bloat every release. One example would be the removal of perl from the base distribution in 5.x. As for perl and the other scripting languages, the actual scripts are often very small because developers don't need to reinvent the wheel everytime but instead make use of the huge repository of existing classes and libraries. On Windows for example most software packages include their own dependencies. I have seen applications installing their own scripting environments, even their own Java VMs - apart from a dozen of dlls... If you want to develop graphical applications, let me recommend you to take a look at the GNUstep project (http://www.gnustep.org). It provides a complete and clean API but is very small in comparison to the likes of KDE/Qt or GNOME. Greetings, Martin Denis Troshin wrote: > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This > 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. > > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install > require them. > > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! > > Is it possible in unix? > > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 19:25:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA2716A4C1 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6860B43FBF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:25:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from apeiron@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.0.5] (pcp05043495pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net[68.86.252.216](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003090202254201300qaouve>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 02:25:42 +0000 From: Christopher Nehren To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-/lxmoucE5VFrAKLJKnKG" Message-Id: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 Date: 01 Sep 2003 22:25:42 -0400 Subject: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 02:25:44 -0000 --=-/lxmoucE5VFrAKLJKnKG Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While playing around with Win2K3 recently, I noticed that it brings up a dialog at every reboot / shutdown and asks for a reason for said reboot / shutdown. So I was bored tonight, and decided to implement that feature in FreeBSD's reboot(8) with a -r flag. Here's a diff against a -CURRENT reboot.c, checked out about five minutes ago. --=-/lxmoucE5VFrAKLJKnKG Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=reboot.c.patch Content-Type: text/plain; name=reboot.c.patch; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- reboot.c.old Sat May 3 14:41:59 2003 +++ reboot.c Mon Sep 1 22:23:56 2003 @@ -69,9 +69,10 @@ main(int argc, char *argv[]) { struct passwd *pw; - int ch, howto, i, fd, kflag, lflag, nflag, qflag, pflag, sverrno; + int ch, howto, i, fd, kflag, lflag, nflag, qflag, pflag, rflag; + int sverrno; u_int pageins; - char *kernel, *p; + char *kernel, *p, *reason; const char *user; if (strstr((p = rindex(*argv, '/')) ? p + 1 : *argv, "halt")) { @@ -79,8 +80,8 @@ howto = RB_HALT; } else howto = 0; - kflag = lflag = nflag = qflag = 0; - while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "dk:lnpq")) != -1) + kflag = lflag = nflag = qflag = rflag = 0; + while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "dk:lnpqr:")) != -1) switch(ch) { case 'd': howto |= RB_DUMP; @@ -103,6 +104,10 @@ case 'q': qflag = 1; break; + case 'r': + rflag = 1; + reason = optarg; + break; case '?': default: usage(); @@ -140,10 +145,10 @@ pw->pw_name : "???"; if (dohalt) { openlog("halt", 0, LOG_AUTH | LOG_CONS); - syslog(LOG_CRIT, "halted by %s", user); + syslog(LOG_CRIT, "halted by %s: %s", user, rflag ? reason : "no reason"); } else { openlog("reboot", 0, LOG_AUTH | LOG_CONS); - syslog(LOG_CRIT, "rebooted by %s", user); + syslog(LOG_CRIT, "rebooted by %s: %s", user, rflag ? reason : "no reason"); } } logwtmp("~", "shutdown", ""); --=-/lxmoucE5VFrAKLJKnKG-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 1 21:36:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F5D16A4BF for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from edgemaster.zombie.org (edgemaster.creighton.edu [147.134.112.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601F043F75 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smkelly@FreeBSD.org) Received: by edgemaster.zombie.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 46BDA39839; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 23:36:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 23:36:55 -0500 From: Sean Kelly To: Christopher Nehren Message-ID: <20030902043655.GA42977@edgemaster.zombie.org> References: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 04:36:59 -0000 On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 10:25:42PM -0400, Christopher Nehren wrote: > While playing around with Win2K3 recently, I noticed that it brings up a > dialog at every reboot / shutdown and asks for a reason for said reboot > / shutdown. So I was bored tonight, and decided to implement that > feature in FreeBSD's reboot(8) with a -r flag. Here's a diff against a > -CURRENT reboot.c, checked out about five minutes ago. Err.. Wouldn't it just be easier to use the `shutdown` command? I suggest you check `man 8 shutdown` out. SYNOPSIS shutdown [-] [-h | -p | -r | -k] [-o [-n]] time [warning-message ...] -- Sean Kelly | PGP KeyID: D2E5E296 smkelly@FreeBSD.org | http://www.sean-kelly.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 01:35:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23DF16A511 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 01:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.28.27.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2EEE44008 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 01:35:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])h828ZSgh089409; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:35:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jeremyp@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h828ZPLE089408; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:35:25 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:35:25 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu Message-ID: <20030902083525.GA89347@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:35:34 -0000 On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:38:34PM -0700, Greg Shenaut wrote: >Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" >ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty >useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" >can be installed at once. Maybe I'm missing something but how would that be an improvement on what FreeBSD does now? If I try to install package X, it will automatically install dependencies A, B and C, as well as their dependencies. Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 03:33:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D925E16A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 03:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (chuggalug.demon.co.uk [62.49.17.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DAB44013 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 03:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h82ATOVp024704 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:29:24 GMT (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h82ATOnm024703 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:29:24 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:29:24 +0000 From: Geoff Buckingham To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030902102924.GA24651@chuggalug.clues.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Multiple keyboards for syscons? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:33:31 -0000 I am trying to find a way to use two keyboards with syscons, something like: mkfifo /tmp/mykbds cat /dev/kbd1 >/tmp/mykbds & cat /dev/kbd2 >/tmp/mykbds & kbdcontrol -k /tmp/mykbds Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1759516A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exchange.wan.no (exchange.wan.no [80.86.128.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9B443FDD for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:10:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sten.daniel.sorsdal@wan.no) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:07:34 +0200 Message-ID: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Ugly Huge BSD Monster Thread-Index: AcNxLO0fTaL13NrxSiG9N4KlF0AzWAAFS0iQ From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sten_Daniel_S=F8rsdal?= To: "Peter Jeremy" , cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:10:14 -0000 >=20 > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:38:34PM -0700, Greg Shenaut wrote: > >Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" > >ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty > >useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" > >can be installed at once. >=20 > Maybe I'm missing something but how would that be an improvement on > what FreeBSD does now? If I try to install package X, it will > automatically install dependencies A, B and C, as well as their > dependencies. >=20 That would ease the installation of port X on Y number of machines. Same libraries, same everything, precompiled. Otherwise one needs to manually track dependencies (not a terribly difficult job) and make those as packages, and keep doing this until all dependencies are as packages (in my case, i have several=20 light-weight servers/routers that have no gcc/make capabilities). If anyone knows of a program/script that will do this for me, please = speak up! - Sten From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 04:45:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3EC16A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vivaldi.meteo.fr (vivaldi.meteo.fr [137.129.28.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C07943FE9 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 04:45:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from igor.pokrovsky@cnrm.meteo.fr) Received: from cti825.cnrm.meteo.fr (localhost.meteo.fr [127.0.0.1]) LAA13820 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:45:12 GMT Received: from xdata.cnrm.meteo.fr (xdata.cnrm.meteo.fr [137.129.150.2]) NAA00722; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:45:10 +0200 (METDST) Received: from exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr (exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr [137.129.157.46]) by xdata.cnrm.meteo.fr with ESMTP (8.9.3 (PHNE_24419)/8.7.1) id NAA15371; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:45:09 +0200 (METDST) Received: from exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h82Bi41K000297; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:44:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from pokrovsi@exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr) Received: (from pokrovsi@localhost) by exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h82Bi3VS000296; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:44:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:44:02 +0200 From: Igor Pokrovsky To: Sten Daniel S?rsdal Message-ID: <20030902114401.GA277@exmatis1.cnrm.meteo.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Sten Daniel S?rsdal , Peter Jeremy , gkshenaut@ucdavis.edu, hackers@freebsd.org References: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Accept-Language: ru X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AMaViS 0.2.1 (cti825/CNRM) Organization: METEO FRANCE(CNRM) cc: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Igor Pokrovsky List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:45:23 -0000 On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 01:07:34PM +0200, Sten Daniel S?rsdal wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:38:34PM -0700, Greg Shenaut wrote: > > >Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" > > >ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty > > >useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" > > >can be installed at once. > > > > Maybe I'm missing something but how would that be an improvement on > > what FreeBSD does now? If I try to install package X, it will > > automatically install dependencies A, B and C, as well as their > > dependencies. > > > > That would ease the installation of port X on Y number of machines. > Same libraries, same everything, precompiled. > Otherwise one needs to manually track dependencies (not a terribly > difficult job) and make those as packages, and keep doing this until > all dependencies are as packages (in my case, i have several > light-weight servers/routers that have no gcc/make capabilities). > > If anyone knows of a program/script that will do this for me, please speak up! I guess you can easily build packages recursively with portupgrade. And no need to track dependencies manually. -ip -- You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 05:55:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D838F16A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 05:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2695B43FE1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 05:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from apeiron@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.0.5] (pcp05043495pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net[68.86.252.216](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003090212552201300qbp1ae>; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:55:22 +0000 From: Christopher Nehren To: Sean Kelly In-Reply-To: <20030902043655.GA42977@edgemaster.zombie.org> References: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <20030902043655.GA42977@edgemaster.zombie.org> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1062507323.2163.6.camel@prophecy.velum> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 Date: 02 Sep 2003 08:55:23 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:55:24 -0000 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 00:36, Sean Kelly wrote: > Err.. Wouldn't it just be easier to use the `shutdown` command? > I suggest you check `man 8 shutdown` out. I'll concede and admit that I should have RTFM'd. But in the same vein, if shutdown(8) provides the functionality of halt(8) and reboot(8), why do they exist as separate programs? I'm probably missing something here, but wouldn't it be easier to just combine shutdown and reboot / halt, as reboot and halt already are? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 06:40:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9A616A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AB843FE3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:40:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:40:43 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Christopher Nehren Message-ID: <20030902134043.GB17646@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <20030902043655.GA42977@edgemaster.zombie.org> <1062507323.2163.6.camel@prophecy.velum> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1062507323.2163.6.camel@prophecy.velum> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Sean Kelly Subject: Re: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:40:47 -0000 --XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Christopher Nehren wrote on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 08:55:23AM -0400: > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 00:36, Sean Kelly wrote: > > Err.. Wouldn't it just be easier to use the `shutdown` command? > > I suggest you check `man 8 shutdown` out. >=20 > I'll concede and admit that I should have RTFM'd. But in the same vein, > if shutdown(8) provides the functionality of halt(8) and reboot(8), why > do they exist as separate programs? I'm probably missing something here, > but wouldn't it be easier to just combine shutdown and reboot / halt, as > reboot and halt already are? Yes, you are missing something. shutdown(8) is a sort-of frontend to reboot/halt. It contains additional functionality and calls /sbin/halt or /sbin/reboot. So the combination already exists. Further halt(8) and reboot(8) are the same program, as you can easily verify using ls -i. The shutdown(8) frontend adds warning-messages and grace-time features to reboot/halt.=20 HTH, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - All your .sigs are belong to us - Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq 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Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B914B16A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1E443FAF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (bicknell@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h82E0b8i053975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h82E0aN2053974 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:00:36 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030902140036.GA53871@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> Organization: United Federation of Planets X-PGP-Key: http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:00:38 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message written on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 01:07:34PM +0200, Sten Daniel = S?rsdal wrote: > all dependencies are as packages (in my case, i have several=20 > light-weight servers/routers that have no gcc/make capabilities). On things without gcc/make perhaps using pkg_add with binary packages would be a far superior solution to using the ports tree. --=20 Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/VKKENh6mMG5yMTYRAi64AJ0SPvhqWYTN87kAKpbTR3+sBItAxgCffPTg kBX2Qyw5j2kjbVVHAXVjFhI= =uE/v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 07:22:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D6016A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fever.boogie.com (cpe-66-87-52-132.co.sprintbbd.net [66.87.52.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF05143FEC for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from durian@boogie.com) Received: from man.boogie.com (man.boogie.com [192.168.1.3]) by fever.boogie.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h82ELec2019751; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:21:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from durian@boogie.com) From: Mike Durian To: Andrew Konstantinov , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:21:40 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <20030828000016.GA669@andruxa.sytes.net> In-Reply-To: <20030828000016.GA669@andruxa.sytes.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309020821.40707.durian@boogie.com> Subject: Re: /dev/lpt0 - always busy, except when acpi is disabled X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:22:59 -0000 On Wednesday 27 August 2003 06:00 pm, Andrew Konstantinov wrote: > > I have a problem accessing the printer connected to the box via parallel > port. Whenever I try to send something to /dev/lpt0, it always responds > with 'device busy' error message, Was there any follow-up on this? I've noticed the same behavior - introduced sometime in the last month or so. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 09:19:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDAE16A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-107-253.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.107.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8602543FE3 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB5A66B04; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 100C9809; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:19:51 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Sten Daniel S?rsdal Message-ID: <20030902161950.GA45287@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KsGdsel6WgEHnImy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:19:57 -0000 --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 01:07:34PM +0200, Sten Daniel S?rsdal wrote: > Otherwise one needs to manually track dependencies (not a terribly > difficult job) and make those as packages, and keep doing this until > all dependencies are as packages (in my case, i have several=20 > light-weight servers/routers that have no gcc/make capabilities). >=20 > If anyone knows of a program/script that will do this for me, please spea= k up! 'make package-recursive' Kris --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/VMMmWry0BWjoQKURApXmAJwNM49bwjYrrPnGw0rB0VORRwMjfwCeKvCD 9iZyqrd4uHDOXCiCAXLWvZI= =e9U3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 10:08:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBD816A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Danovitsch.dnsq.org (b74143.upc-b.chello.nl [212.83.74.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513BF43FE9 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Danovitsch@Vitsch.net) Received: from FreeBSD.Danovitsch.LAN (b83007.upc-b.chello.nl [212.83.83.7]) by Danovitsch.dnsq.org (8.12.3p2/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h82H2Jqr058372; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:02:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Danovitsch@Vitsch.net) From: "Daan Vreeken [PA4DAN]" To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:08:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_WMJLFOR3G4NMD1FE25GZ" Message-Id: <200309021908.56358.Danovitsch@Vitsch.net> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: Stuart Walsh Subject: Release (beta) driver for Atmel USB Wireless LAN adapters X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:08:46 -0000 --------------Boundary-00=_WMJLFOR3G4NMD1FE25GZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, After about a month of spare time work I have finally come to a point of=20 releasing some software. I have written a driver for the Atmel AT76c503=20 Wireless LAN adapters. At this moment the driver is capable of sending /=20 receiving in Ad Hoc mode only. If you happen to own one of these adapters= ,=20 please give the driver a try and let me know what you think of it. (This is my first real kernel driver, so please kick it gently :) You can find the driver here : Driver home page : http://www.vitsch.net/bsd/atuwi/ Release 0.1 file overview : http://www.vitsch.net/bsd/atuwi/0.1/ Or grab the tarball imediately : http://www.vitsch.net/bsd/atuwi/0.1/atuwi-0.1.tar.gz At this moment I have a problem with the driver. After uploading the firm= ware=20 to the device, the device needs to be resetted. I have the reset-code=20 working, but after the reset the device changes it's descriptors and some= =20 kernel buffers/pointers have to be updated with the device. I don't know=20 enough about the usb kernel internals to figure out what I'm doing wrong. That's why I have attached the reset code to this email. If someone could= tell=20 me what I'm doing wrong I would be very thankfull. grtz, Daan --------------Boundary-00=_WMJLFOR3G4NMD1FE25GZ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 11:21:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D53D016A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 24BEF43FF3 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:21:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mdcki@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 23752 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Sep 2003 18:21:30 -0000 Received: from cvpn015.gwdg.de (EHLO gmx.net) (134.76.22.15) by mail.gmx.net (mp026) with SMTP; 02 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0200 Message-ID: <3F54DFC8.3020308@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:22:00 +0200 From: Marcin Dalecki User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pl, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> <20030902083525.GA89347@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20030902083525.GA89347@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:21:34 -0000 Peter Jeremy wrote: > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:38:34PM -0700, Greg Shenaut wrote: > >>Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" >>ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be pretty >>useful to have something like that so that all of the "prerequisites" >>can be installed at once. > > > Maybe I'm missing something but how would that be an improvement on > what FreeBSD does now? If I try to install package X, it will > automatically install dependencies A, B and C, as well as their > dependencies. What I hate somehow is the proliferation of "scripting plugin interfaces" which are optional in the src bunch but are not opt-in switches in the actual packages. One example can be vim sucking in perl ruby python and what a not. Esp. annoying is the pyhon stuff visible in libxml2 and libxslt - not usefull at all. One measure to controll this is under FreeBSD to place the following inside /etc/make.conf: # Kerberes. What the heck I never saw this in use. NO_KERBEROS=yes # My own site specific additions: WITH_MOTIF= true WITHOUT_PYTHON= true WITHOUT_RUBY= true # Options for openoffice-pl: WITH_BSD_JDK=TRUE WITH_TTF_BYTECODE_ENABLED=YES WITH_GIF_LZW_COMPRESSION=YES # Options for Java NATIVE_BOOTSTRAP=yes Howver I strongly think that the WITHOYUT_PYTHON and WITHOUT_RUBY items at least should be the defaults. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 11:34:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29A616A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4F843FEC for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h82IYGL7092650; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:34:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:34:16 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Marcin Dalecki Message-ID: <20030902183416.GA84690@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20030901132021.F11735@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> <200309011938.h81JcYF14647@thistle.bogs.org> <20030902083525.GA89347@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> <3F54DFC8.3020308@gmx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F54DFC8.3020308@gmx.net> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:34:18 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 02), Marcin Dalecki said: > What I hate somehow is the proliferation of "scripting plugin > interfaces" which are optional in the src bunch but are not opt-in > switches in the actual packages. One example can be vim sucking in > perl ruby python and what a not. Esp. annoying is the pyhon stuff > visible in libxml2 and libxslt - not usefull at all. One measure to > controll this is under FreeBSD to place the following inside > /etc/make.conf: [snip] > Howver I strongly think that the WITHOYUT_PYTHON and WITHOUT_RUBY > items at least should be the defaults. Smart ports check to see whether the user has installed the optional package. See ports/audio/alsaplayer/Makefile, for example. You're welcome to submit PRs fixing the ports that hardcode unnecessary dependencies :) -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 11:53:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2B816A4C0 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail01.stbernard.com (mail01.stbernard.com [64.154.93.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A555943FE9 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from salty.rapid.stbernard.com ([192.168.4.61]) by mail01.stbernard.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:53:51 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.com To: Sten Daniel =?iso-8859-1?q?S=F8rsdal?= , "Peter Jeremy" , Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:53:51 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> In-Reply-To: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309021153.51165.wes@softweyr.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2003 18:53:51.0479 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CE22070:01C37183] cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:53:52 -0000 On Tuesday 02 September 2003 04:07, Sten Daniel S=F8rsdal wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:38:34PM -0700, Greg Shenaut wrote: > > >Has it ever been suggested to create one or more "dependencies" > > >ports (or more to the point, packages)? I think it might be > > > pretty useful to have something like that so that all of the > > > "prerequisites" can be installed at once. > > > > Maybe I'm missing something but how would that be an improvement on > > what FreeBSD does now? If I try to install package X, it will > > automatically install dependencies A, B and C, as well as their > > dependencies. > > That would ease the installation of port X on Y number of machines. > Same libraries, same everything, precompiled. > Otherwise one needs to manually track dependencies (not a terribly > difficult job) and make those as packages, and keep doing this until > all dependencies are as packages (in my case, i have several > light-weight servers/routers that have no gcc/make capabilities). > > If anyone knows of a program/script that will do this for me, please > speak up! portinstall -r -p pkgname will build a package for pkgname and all of=20 it's dependencies. =2D-=20 "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 12:15:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9582D16A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hysteria.spc.org (hysteria.spc.org [195.206.69.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3AD5B44001 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bms@hysteria.spc.org) Received: (qmail 30523 invoked by uid 5013); 2 Sep 2003 19:12:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:12:13 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson To: Jerry Toung Message-ID: <20030902191213.GC29217@spc.org> Mail-Followup-To: Bruce M Simpson , Jerry Toung , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200308312303.40555.jtoung@arc.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200308312303.40555.jtoung@arc.nasa.gov> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: SPC cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: if_gre, ip_gre and the like (pseudo-interfaces) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:15:32 -0000 On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 11:03:40PM -0700, Jerry Toung wrote: > My understanding is that gre_input is called by IP everytime it receives a > packet with a gre headers which after some processing performs > IF_ENQUEUE(ifq,m) to put it back on the IPqueue so that higher protocol such > TCP can do their thing. :-) Not quite correct. This is what my legacy GRE code does. The NetBSD-derived if_gre in the tree passes the mbuf to netisr_dispatch(), which in turn calls if_handoff(), which does something similar. > I don't see how /dev/gre is ever used on receiving or sending, through > if_clone_attach??. Somebody educate me on my missing link. I don't see /dev/gre on my system. If you're referring to the line 'device gre' in the kernel configuration, that is there purely to ensure that the gre driver is statically linked into the kernel. BMS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 12:42:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1896716A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Chow.corp.media.net (rottie.media.net [66.113.65.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472B343FFB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max.clark@media.net) Received: from MCLARK (76.0.6.10.IN-ADDR.ARPA [10.6.0.76]) by Chow.corp.media.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HKLQJB00.83I; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:37:59 -0700 From: "Max Clark" To: , , Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:48:29 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:42:45 -0000 Sorry for the cross post. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Max Clark Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:00 AM To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: 20TB Storage System Hi all, I need to attach 20TB of storage to a network (as low cost as possible), I need to sustain 250Mbit/s or 30MByte/s of sustained IO from the storage to the disk. I have found external Fibre Channel -> ATA 133 Raid enclosures. These enclosures will house 16 drives so with 250GB drives a total of 3.5TB each after a RAID 5 format. These enclosures have advertised sustained IO of 90-100MByte/s each. One solution we are thinking about is to use a Intel XEON server with 3x FC HBA controller cards in the server each attached to a separate storage enclosure. In any event we would be required to use ccd or vinum to stripe multiple storage enclosures together to form one logical volume. I can partition this system into two separate 10TB storage pools. Given the above: 1) What would my expected IO be using vinum to stripe the storage enclosures detailed above? 2) What is the maximum size of a filesystem that I can present to the host OS using vinum/ccd? Am I limited anywhere that I am not aware of? 3) Could I put all 20TB on one system, or will I need two to sustain the IO required? 4) If you were building this system how would you do it? (The installed $/GB must be below $5.00 dollars). My other options are to use Solaris or Windows (which I would rather not do). Thanks in advance, Max _______________________________________________ freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:01:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A047B16A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60EF044001; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h82K1ii8050600; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:01:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: "Max Clark" From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:48:29 PDT." Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:01:44 +0200 Message-ID: <50599.1062532904@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:01:49 -0000 In message , "Max Clark" writ es: >Given the above: >1) What would my expected IO be using vinum to stripe the storage enclosures >detailed above? That depends a lot on the applications I/O pattern, an I doubt a precise prediction is possible. In particular the FibreChannel is hard to predict the throughput off because the various implementations seems to have each their own peculiar quirks performance wise. On a SEAGATE ST318452 disks, I see sequential transfer rates at the outside rim of the disk of 58MB/sec. If I stripe two of them them with CCD I get 107MB/sec. CCD has a better performance than Vinum where they compare. RAID-5 and striping a large number of disks does not scale linearly performance wise, in particular you _may_ see your average access time drop somewhat, but there is by far no guarantee that it will be better than the individual drive. >2) What is the maximum size of a filesystem that I can present to the host >OS using vinum/ccd? Am I limited anywhere that I am not aware of? Good question, I'm not sure we currently know the exact barrier. >3) Could I put all 20TB on one system, or will I need two to sustain the IO >required? Spreading it will give you more I/O bandwidth. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:08:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E7516A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-107-253.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.107.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1D843FDD for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF7566B60; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F2DBB7D3; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:08:01 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20030902200801.GA46217@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <0AF1BBDF1218F14E9B4CCE414744E70F1F3EAD@exchange.wanglobal.net> <200309021153.51165.wes@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309021153.51165.wes@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:08:03 -0000 --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:53:51AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > portinstall -r -p pkgname will build a package for pkgname and all of=20 > it's dependencies. So will 'make package-recursive', as already suggested :-) Kris --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/VPihWry0BWjoQKURAhn9AKDxjIHGbzpK2cSD4CxhvHYAhUvIfACfQDZO SZintsfUUmtPpSBRKjlmebk= =HYCY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:09:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD6BE16A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6DF43FAF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h82K937c017693; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:03 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h82K93A8017692; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:03 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Max Clark Message-ID: <20030902200903.GA31697@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) on odin.ac.hmc.edu cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:09:07 -0000 --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [This isn't really a performance issue so I trimmed it.] On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 12:48:29PM -0700, Max Clark wrote: > I need to attach 20TB of storage to a network (as low cost as possible), I > need to sustain 250Mbit/s or 30MByte/s of sustained IO from the storage to > the disk. >=20 > I have found external Fibre Channel -> ATA 133 Raid enclosures. These > enclosures will house 16 drives so with 250GB drives a total of 3.5TB each > after a RAID 5 format. These enclosures have advertised sustained IO of > 90-100MByte/s each. >=20 > One solution we are thinking about is to use a Intel XEON server with 3x = FC > HBA controller cards in the server each attached to a separate storage > enclosure. In any event we would be required to use ccd or vinum to stripe > multiple storage enclosures together to form one logical volume. >=20 > I can partition this system into two separate 10TB storage pools. >=20 > Given the above: > 1) What would my expected IO be using vinum to stripe the storage enclosu= res > detailed above? > 2) What is the maximum size of a filesystem that I can present to the host > OS using vinum/ccd? Am I limited anywhere that I am not aware of? Paul Saab recently demonstated a 2.7TB ccd so you shouldn't hit any major limits there (I'm not sure where the next barrier is, but it should be a ways off). I'm not sure about UFS. > 3) Could I put all 20TB on one system, or will I need two to sustain the = IO > required? In theory you should be able to do 250Mbps on a single system, but I'm not sure how well you will do in practice. You'll need to make sure you have sufficent PCI bus bandwidth. > 4) If you were building this system how would you do it? (The installed $= /GB > must be below $5.00 dollars). If you are willing to accept the management overhead of multiple volumes, you will have a hard time beating 5U 24-disk boxes with 3 8-port 3ware arrays of 300GB disks. That gets you 6TB per box (due to controler limitations restricting you to 2TB per controler) for a bit under $15000 or $2.5/GB. The raw read speed of the arrays is around 85MBps so each array easily meets your throughput requirements. Since you'd have 20 arrays in 4 machines, you'd easily get meet your bandwith requirements. If you can't accept multiple volumes, you may still be able to use a configuration like this using either target mode drivers or the disk over network GEOM module that was posted recently. You will need to use 5.x to make this work. -- Brooks --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/VPjeXY6L6fI4GtQRAocDAKCIDhiRUX0AhL28TOc+6Nz6zjPVGACg0vq+ yCwBAxFXRmkBob+wvQUUS+M= =BE8e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:09:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4484116A549; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Chow.corp.media.net (rottie.media.net [66.113.65.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1620B43FE5; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max.clark@media.net) Received: from MCLARK (76.0.6.10.IN-ADDR.ARPA [10.6.0.76]) by Chow.corp.media.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HKLRRG00.D3I; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:04:28 -0700 From: "Max Clark" To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:14:58 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <50599.1062532904@critter.freebsd.dk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:09:14 -0000 I know adding ccd/vinum to the equation will lower my IO throughput, but the question is... if I have an external hardware shelf with 3.5TB (16 250GB drives w/ Raid 5 from hardware) and I put a Raid 0 stripe across 3 of these shelves what would my expected loss of IO be? Thanks, Max -----Original Message----- From: Poul-Henning Kamp [mailto:phk@phk.freebsd.dk] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:02 PM To: Max Clark Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-performance@freebsd.org; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: 20TB Storage System In message , "Max Clark" writ es: >Given the above: >1) What would my expected IO be using vinum to stripe the storage enclosures >detailed above? That depends a lot on the applications I/O pattern, an I doubt a precise prediction is possible. In particular the FibreChannel is hard to predict the throughput off because the various implementations seems to have each their own peculiar quirks performance wise. On a SEAGATE ST318452 disks, I see sequential transfer rates at the outside rim of the disk of 58MB/sec. If I stripe two of them them with CCD I get 107MB/sec. CCD has a better performance than Vinum where they compare. RAID-5 and striping a large number of disks does not scale linearly performance wise, in particular you _may_ see your average access time drop somewhat, but there is by far no guarantee that it will be better than the individual drive. >2) What is the maximum size of a filesystem that I can present to the host >OS using vinum/ccd? Am I limited anywhere that I am not aware of? Good question, I'm not sure we currently know the exact barrier. >3) Could I put all 20TB on one system, or will I need two to sustain the IO >required? Spreading it will give you more I/O bandwidth. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:12:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A3B16A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219524400E; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:12:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h82KCUi8050922; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:12:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: "Max Clark" From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:14:58 PDT." Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:12:30 +0200 Message-ID: <50921.1062533550@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:12:32 -0000 In message , "Max Clark" writ es: >I know adding ccd/vinum to the equation will lower my IO throughput, but the >question is... if I have an external hardware shelf with 3.5TB (16 250GB >drives w/ Raid 5 from hardware) and I put a Raid 0 stripe across 3 of these >shelves what would my expected loss of IO be? The loss will mostly be from latency, but how much is impossible to tell I think. The statistics of this, even with my trusty old Erlang table would still be too uncertain to be of any value. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:34:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948A416A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver.he.iki.fi (helenius.fi [193.64.42.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B44243FD7; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:33:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Received: from he.iki.fi (h81.vuokselantie10.fi [193.64.42.129]) by silver.he.iki.fi (8.12.9/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h82KXvZH001718; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:33:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Message-ID: <3F54FEB3.4050005@he.iki.fi> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:33:55 +0300 From: Petri Helenius User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp References: <50599.1062532904@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <50599.1062532904@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:34:00 -0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >>2) What is the maximum size of a filesystem that I can present to the host >>OS using vinum/ccd? Am I limited anywhere that I am not aware of? >> >> > >Good question, I'm not sure we currently know the exact barrier. > Just make sure you run UFS2, which is the default on -CURRENT because UFS1 has a 1TB limit. >>3) Could I put all 20TB on one system, or will I need two to sustain the IO >>required? >> >> > >Spreading it will give you more I/O bandwidth. > > > Can you say why? Usually putting more spindles into one pile gives you more I/O, unless you have very evenly distributed sequential access in pattern you can predict in advance. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 13:54:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB0616A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genius.tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D713943FF2 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:54:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@genius.tao.org.uk) Received: by genius.tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id E73C042DF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:54:18 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:54:18 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Booting a machine over the network without pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:54:32 -0000 --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have any experience of booting a machine over the network, like pxeboot, but without running PXE on a network card. I imagine that it should be possible to load pxeboot at the boot: prompt and have everything just work. I could really do with booting my laptop into -stable, where it's only got -current installed. I do however have a -stable server on site with plenty of disk space. It would be really cool to remote boot of that via NFS mounts, etc. Joe --=20 Josef Karthauser (joe@tao.org.uk) http://www.josef-k.net/ FreeBSD (cvs meisterk admin and hacker) http://www.uk.FreeBSD.org/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An eclectic mix of fact an= d theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAj9VA3oACgkQXVIcjOaxUBad7QCeIZEnDVFLsByIWsPOuGkSzET+ IgUAoORCkUYzhqCpU4WIf0Bi4PfJMV5U =m/1+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 14:05:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F57A16A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail01.stbernard.com (mail01.stbernard.com [64.154.93.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A2343FF5 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:05:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from salty.rapid.stbernard.com ([192.168.4.61]) by mail01.stbernard.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:05:41 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.com To: Daniel Lang , Christopher Nehren Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:05:40 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <1062507323.2163.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <20030902134043.GB17646@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> In-Reply-To: <20030902134043.GB17646@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309021405.40906.wes@softweyr.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2003 21:05:41.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7659000:01C37195] cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:05:42 -0000 On Tuesday 02 September 2003 06:40, Daniel Lang wrote: > Hi, > > Christopher Nehren wrote on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 08:55:23AM -0400: > > On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 00:36, Sean Kelly wrote: > > > Err.. Wouldn't it just be easier to use the `shutdown` command? > > > I suggest you check `man 8 shutdown` out. > > > > I'll concede and admit that I should have RTFM'd. But in the same > > vein, if shutdown(8) provides the functionality of halt(8) and > > reboot(8), why do they exist as separate programs? I'm probably > > missing something here, but wouldn't it be easier to just combine > > shutdown and reboot / halt, as reboot and halt already are? > > Yes, you are missing something. > > shutdown(8) is a sort-of frontend to reboot/halt. It contains > additional functionality and calls /sbin/halt or /sbin/reboot. > So the combination already exists. Further halt(8) and > reboot(8) are the same program, as you can easily verify using > ls -i. > > The shutdown(8) frontend adds warning-messages and grace-time > features to reboot/halt. The true answer is "hysterical raisins." Or was that "historical reasons?" Something like that. reboot and halt are BSD commands, shutdown SYSV-ish. Shutdown has all those nice "professional" options to warn users, schedule a shutdown in a few minutes, etc. Reboot and halt expect you to already know how to use at(1) and wall(1) to effect the same results, and to write a script if you really want to do that over and over again. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 14:09:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3742A16A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genius.tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EFC43FBD; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@genius.tao.org.uk) Received: by genius.tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 55BA04697; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:09:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:09:04 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Josef Karthauser Message-ID: <20030902210904.GB30594@genius.tao.org.uk> References: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Booting a machine over the network without pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:09:17 -0000 --XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:54:18PM +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: > Does anyone have any experience of booting a machine over the > network, like pxeboot, but without running PXE on a network card. > I imagine that it should be possible to load pxeboot at the boot: > prompt and have everything just work. >=20 > I could really do with booting my laptop into -stable, where it's only > got -current installed. I do however have a -stable server on site with > plenty of disk space. It would be really cool to remote boot of that > via NFS mounts, etc. I should have said, my network card is an aue (usb) device which cuts etherboot out of the equation. Joe --=20 Josef Karthauser (joe@tao.org.uk) http://www.josef-k.net/ FreeBSD (cvs meister, admin and hacker) http://www.uk.FreeBSD.org/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An eclectic mix of fact an= d theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAj9VBu8ACgkQXVIcjOaxUBbeZgCfUfmhY6Y2FgEE285R9wNmsSmm +nsAnj7OAd9Y37tz08iBuSkHV1SZ9Fqf =iL63 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XOIedfhf+7KOe/yw-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 14:25:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B85516A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skutsje.san.webweaving.org (skutsje.san.webweaving.org [209.132.96.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474F743F93; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:25:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from skutsje.san.webweaving.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h82LQ28Q015496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:26:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from localhost (dirkx@localhost)h82LQ2fU015493; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:26:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) X-Authentication-Warning: skutsje.san.webweaving.org: dirkx owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:26:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-X-Sender: dirkx@skutsje.san.webweaving.org To: Josef Karthauser In-Reply-To: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> Message-ID: <20030902142521.Y72997@skutsje.san.webweaving.org> References: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Booting a machine over the network without pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:25:17 -0000 On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Josef Karthauser wrote: > Does anyone have any experience of booting a machine over the > network, like pxeboot, but without running PXE on a network card. The floppies of etherboot (see ports) work just fine. Or use the bootloader on your IDE disk. Dw From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 14:43:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE07216A4F4; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Chow.corp.media.net (rottie.media.net [66.113.65.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0B344031; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max.clark@media.net) Received: from MCLARK (76.0.6.10.IN-ADDR.ARPA [10.6.0.76]) by Chow.corp.media.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HKLW4I00.C3O; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:38:42 -0700 From: "Max Clark" To: "Petri Helenius" , "Poul-Henning Kamp" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:49:13 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F54FEB3.4050005@he.iki.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FW: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:43:29 -0000 Just make sure you run UFS2, which is the default on -CURRENT because UFS1 has a 1TB limit. - What's the limit with UFS2? Are there major requirements to run FreeBSD 5.x or can I still run stable with this? Thanks, Max From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 15:06:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97E516A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pony2pub.arc.nasa.gov (pony2pub.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.31.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D83C43FE1 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:06:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jtoung@arc.nasa.gov) Received: from nren-194.arc.nasa.gov ([128.102.196.194] verified) by pony2pub.arc.nasa.gov (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2598771; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:06:40 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Jerry Toung To: Bruce M Simpson Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:06:16 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200308312303.40555.jtoung@arc.nasa.gov> <20030902191213.GC29217@spc.org> In-Reply-To: <20030902191213.GC29217@spc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200309021506.16581.jtoung@arc.nasa.gov> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: if_gre, ip_gre and the like (pseudo-interfaces) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jtoung@arc.nasa.gov List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:06:47 -0000 BMS, please be patient. I guess I am still a little bit confuse as to how a packet goes from a real NIC (i.e xl0) to the gre pseudo-device. in if_gre.c, you define a new protocol switch in the inetdomain and gre_input as the input processing function. My understanding is that NIC receives a data, device driver unwraps it an= d places it in &ipintrq. Then (*inetsw[ip_protox[ip->ip_p]].pr_input) in=20 ip_input.c points to gre_input and that's how we land in the gre module. gre_output on the other hand prepends or insert headers and make a call to ip_output which I think will transmit the packet to the physical inter= face=20 (i.e xl0). With all respect, I don't see any call to IF_HANDOFF in the gre code. onl= y in=20 if_gif that you also wrote. which fit the explaination you gave previously. As for /dev/gre, we can i= gnore=20 that statement. Thanks lot, Jerry. On Tuesday 02 September 2003 12:12 pm, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 11:03:40PM -0700, Jerry Toung wrote: > > My understanding is that gre_input is called by IP everytime it recei= ves > > a packet with a gre headers which after some processing performs > > IF_ENQUEUE(ifq,m) to put it back on the IPqueue so that higher protoc= ol > > such TCP can do their thing. :-) > > Not quite correct. This is what my legacy GRE code does. The NetBSD-der= ived > if_gre in the tree passes the mbuf to netisr_dispatch(), which in turn > calls if_handoff(), which does something similar. > > > I don't see how /dev/gre is ever used on receiving or sending, throu= gh > > if_clone_attach??. Somebody educate me on my missing link. > > I don't see /dev/gre on my system. > > If you're referring to the line 'device gre' in the kernel configuratio= n, > that is there purely to ensure that the gre driver is statically linked > into the kernel. > > BMS --=20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 15:41:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D8716A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7C043F75; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:41:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h82MfbR2075085; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:41:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:41:37 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Max Clark Message-ID: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:41:41 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 02), Max Clark said: > 2) What is the maximum size of a filesystem that I can present to the > host OS using vinum/ccd? Am I limited anywhere that I am not aware > of? Depends on whether you plan on crashing or not :) According to http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2003-July/000181.html, you may not want to create filesystems over 3TB if you want fsck to succeed. I don't know if that's using the default newfs settings (which would create an insane number of inodes), though. > 3) Could I put all 20TB on one system, or will I need two to sustain > the IO required? To sustain only 30MByte/s across the entire set? Doesn't really matter, since even a single disk could do that. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 15:48:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E12616A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Chow.corp.media.net (rottie.media.net [66.113.65.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548EF43FFB; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max.clark@media.net) Received: from MCLARK (76.0.6.10.IN-ADDR.ARPA [10.6.0.76]) by Chow.corp.media.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HKLZ4A00.N3E; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:43:22 -0700 From: "Max Clark" To: "Dan Nelson" Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:53:53 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:48:09 -0000 Depends on whether you plan on crashing or not :) According to http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2003-July/000181.html, you may not want to create filesystems over 3TB if you want fsck to succeed. I don't know if that's using the default newfs settings (which would create an insane number of inodes), though. - This is a big problem (no pun intended), my smallest requirement is still 5TB... what would you recommend? The smallest file on the storage will be 500MB. To sustain only 30MByte/s across the entire set? Doesn't really matter, since even a single disk could do that. - What would I see better performance with ccd or vinum? So a better question isn't if I can sustain with 30MByte/s but what would I expect to maintain? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 16:29:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C07C16A4BF; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C05343FB1; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h82NT2nR044828; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:29:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:29:02 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Max Clark Message-ID: <20030902232902.GB98381@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:29:06 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 02), Max Clark said: [ quoting format manually recovered ] > Dan Nelson wrote > > Depends on whether you plan on crashing or not :) According to > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2003-July/000181.html, > > you may not want to create filesystems over 3TB if you want fsck to > > succeed. I don't know if that's using the default newfs settings > > (which would create an insane number of inodes), though. > > This is a big problem (no pun intended), my smallest requirement is > still 5TB... what would you recommend? The smallest file on the > storage will be 500MB. I'd say try formatting a 5TB filesystem with the values you'd use (use a very large -i; 1048576 maybe?) and see how much memory fsck consumes. I don't know what UFS2's max blocksize is, but a larger blocksize would help too. You should be able to fake enough storage to do the test with mdconfig and some large sparse files. > > To sustain only 30MByte/s across the entire set? Doesn't really > > matter, since even a single disk could do that. > > What would I see better performance with ccd or vinum? So a better > question isn't if I can sustain with 30MByte/s but what would I > expect to maintain? For sequential access to mirrored arrays, your bottleneck will probably be the ATA->FC bridges, since they claim to only do 100MBytes/sec. If your three HBAs are 1gbit, then those will be your bottleneck and you'll be able to do 300MB/s reads, and 150MB/s writes (50% mirror penalty). If they're 2gbit and you have 6 bridges, you'll max out at 600MB/s and 300MB/s. If you want to use vinum raid5, cut those write speeds in half again (25% raid-5 penalty). Theoretically, assuming you can max your FC links and your server can handle the load :) I do mrtg graphs of my fibre switches, and I haven't seen it peak over 80MB/sec through a 1gbit link, but I regularly see 70MB/sec sustained to some Tru64 Alpha servers. I only have external hardware raid, though, so I don't know what kind of penalty ccd/vinum will add on top of that. Shouldn't be too much. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 20:36:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE67316A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.soft.com (205-179-41-174.client.dsl.net [205.179.41.174]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225BD43FAF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@mail2.soft.com) Received: (from info@localhost) by mail2.soft.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) id h833ZXh19692; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:35:33 -0700 From: SR Info Message-Id: <200309030335.h833ZXh19692@mail2.soft.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: junk Date: Tue Sep 2 20:35:32 2003 Subject: Automated Reply from SR Info X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:36:44 -0000 Thanks for asking about Software Research's eValid and TestWorks product suites. 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Simply point your browser to: If we can be of help in providing any kind of information about TestWorks or about software quality in general be sure to ask! +-----------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | TestWorks for Web/Windows/Unix | Phone: [+1] (415) 861-2800 | | Software Research, Inc. | Toll Free: 1-800-942-SOFT | | 1663 Mission Street, Suite 400 | FAX: [+1] (415) 861-9801 | | San Francisco, CA 94103 USA | E-Mail: info@soft.com | | | URL: | +-----------------------------------+----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 2 22:08:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59DC316A4BF for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B985A4400D for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:08:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8358AVI020353; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h8358Aj6020352; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:08:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200309030508.h8358Aj6020352@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kirk McKusick , Paul Saab References: <200308232123.h7NLNwol054243@beastie.mckusick.com> cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mksnap_ffs, snapshot issues, again X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 05:08:12 -0000 : :Thanks for your thoughts. Let me know how your idea progresses :(e.g., whether you get to work :-) : : ~Kirk I am starting work on on cache_lookup() and related functions now in DragonFly. I expect it will take at least the week to get a prototype working and I believe the resulting patch set will be fairly easy to port to FreeBSD. The first step I am taking is to make the namecache more persistent. *ALL* active vnodes accessed via lookup() will be guarenteed to have a namecache entry. I have successfully booted a test system with this change, though I am sure there are bugs :-). I am not entirely sure what to do about the filehandle functions but I am not going to worry about it for the moment. What this basically means is that vnodes cannot be recycled in the 'middle' of the topology, only at the leafs. This does not present a big problem since files are always leafs. The namecache topology will be guarenteed to remain unbroken except in cases where the namespace is deleted (e.g. removing a file with active descriptors). The second step will be to use a namecache structural pointer for our 'directory handle' in all places in the system where a directory handle is expected (e.g. 'dvp'). This will also involve getting rid of the vnode-based parent directory support (v_dd). Since the namecache structure has a pointer to the vnode this is a pretty easy step. A little harder will be to fix all the directory scanning functions to use the namecache topology instead of the vnode topology. The third step will be to use the namecache for all name-based locking operations instead of the underlying vnodes. For example, if you are renaming a/b to c/d you only need to hold locks on the namecache entry representing "b" and the one representing "d" prior to executing the rename operation. The one representing "d" will be a negative cache entry, placemarking the operation. This will not only completely solve the locking issues with rename(), remove(), and create, it also completely solves directory recursion stalls in both directions, completely solves the race to root issue, solves most of the directory lookup stalls (cache case lookups will not need a vnode lock and can run in parallel with directory operations that do need the vnode lock), gets rid of all name-related deadlock situations, and potentially allows modifying directory operations to become reentrant down the line. The fourth step will be a *BIG* Carrot... the namecache topology does not have a problem with vnodes appearing in multiple places in the filesystem. This means that (A) it will be possible to hardlink directories and (B) it will be possible to implement semi-hard links, basically softlinks that *look* like hardlinks and (C) to be able to CD forwards and backwards without the system getting confused about paths. In other words, some way cool shit. Additional optimizations are possible for the future. For example, it will be possible to cache ucred pointers in the namecache structure and thus allow namei() to *COMPLETELY* resolve a path without making any VOP calls at all, which will at least double and probably quadruple best case path lookup performance. I'll post an update after step 3, probably near the end of the week or on the weekend. I expect people will start screaming for Step 4 now that they know it is possible :-) -Matt Matthew Dillon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 01:11:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A387B16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.aueb.gr (hermes.aueb.gr [195.251.255.142]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42D14402A; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dds@aueb.gr) Received: from aueb.gr (faculty01.right.dialup.aueb.gr [195.251.255.245]) by hermes.aueb.gr (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h838Bo6T026854; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:11:50 +0300 Message-ID: <3F55A1EA.B9F8CB23@aueb.gr> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:10:18 +0300 From: Diomidis Spinellis Organization: Athens University of Ecomomics and Business X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el,de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser References: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> <20030902210904.GB30594@genius.tao.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Booting a machine over the network without pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:11:54 -0000 Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:54:18PM +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience of booting a machine over the > > network, like pxeboot, but without running PXE on a network card. > > I imagine that it should be possible to load pxeboot at the boot: > > prompt and have everything just work. > > > > I could really do with booting my laptop into -stable, where it's only > > got -current installed. I do however have a -stable server on site with > > plenty of disk space. It would be really cool to remote boot of that > > via NFS mounts, etc. > > I should have said, my network card is an aue (usb) device which cuts > etherboot out of the equation. I have used picobsd(8) to load a bare bones kernel and some configuration files on an old Pentium-100 16MB laptop using a floppy disk. rc.local then NFS mounts the real directories over the net: mount spiti.spinellis.gr:/usr /usr mount spiti.spinellis.gr:/home /home rm bin sbin /stand/mkdir bin sbin /stand/mount_nfs spiti.spinellis.gr:/bin /bin /stand/mount_nfs spiti.spinellis.gr:/sbin /sbin It took me about two days to jugle the binaries in a way that allowed the initial boot to view the network via the PCMCIA card and to configure the system remove picobsd remnants once the large filesystems were available over NFS. At some point during the boot process you feel as if a straightjacket is removed: you have all your binaries and a lot of disk space available. Before that stage you have to be very careful with how you allocate the floppy's disk space. Diomidis - dds@ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 01:13:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D63816A4BF for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD34B44017 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:13:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:13:25 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20030903081325.GA27941@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <1062507323.2163.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <20030902134043.GB17646@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <200309021405.40906.wes@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309021405.40906.wes@softweyr.com> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:13:30 -0000 --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Wes Peters wrote on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:05:40PM -0700: [..] > reboot and halt are BSD commands, shutdown SYSV-ish. Shutdown has all=20 > those nice "professional" options to warn users, schedule a shutdown in= =20 > a few minutes, etc. Reboot and halt expect you to already know how to=20 > use at(1) and wall(1) to effect the same results, and to write a script= =20 > if you really want to do that over and over again. [..] I tend to disagree. AFAIK was shutdown part of BSD already in the early days. The usage differs from SysV shutdown, though.=20 IMHO SysV-ish would be to use "init ". And "shutdown now" is much less painful than kill -TERM 1 for the faint hearted. :-)) Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Der Schatten von Hasenfuss ist ziemlich dunkel - =20 Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq 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Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D65916A4BF for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from milla.ask33.net (milla.ask33.net [217.197.166.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7EDD43FDD for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@milla.ask33.net) Received: by milla.ask33.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DE0C53ABB2E; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:34:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:34:39 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030903083439.GA47959@garage.freebsd.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="66fzjyEOf0WBOmi+" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key-URL: http://garage.freebsd.pl/jules.asc X-OS: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE-p3 i386 X-URL: http://garage.freebsd.pl User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Subject: Safe rename(2)/link(2)/unlink(2). X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:32:39 -0000 --66fzjyEOf0WBOmi+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello hackers... Sometime ago I've proposed secure versions of syscalls from subject on IRC. I've decide to describe them here more precisely. Now all those 3 syscalls aren't safe from race-conditions point of view. That's for sure. Other syscalls are implemented in two variants, for example chmod(2) and fchmod(2). Ok, let's go. int funlink(int fd, const char *path); int flink(int fd, const char *name1, const char *name2); int frename(int fd, const char *from, const char *to); How it all works... In funlink(2) fd is used to compare vnode of opened file and file that should be removed. It doesn't really matters if fd represents exactly the same file or only its hard link, because we only want to be sure that file wasn't removed and new (different) file wasn't created before our call to funlink(2). In flink(2) and frename(2) situation is very simlar. The only race here is: thread 1 thread 2 create file 'a' link 'a' to 'b' fd =3D open file 'a' remove file 'a' link 'b' to 'a' funlink(fd, 'a') But this isn't problematic at all, isn't it?:) This operation will fail if 'thread 2' will create new file 'a' instead of creating hard link to file 'b'. Comments? --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek pawel@dawidek.net UNIX Systems Programmer/Administrator http://garage.freebsd.pl Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! http://cerber.sourceforge.net --66fzjyEOf0WBOmi+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iQCVAwUBP1Wnnz/PhmMH/Mf1AQE9kQP+J7J834Yepm+4OYR2TdHsGawjZRYzjbCh C49IxMcF76nmDszkqrlAOo6VPG1xJvHWZXhWe4cLimgbCZpVZDSERlgBeToyvdlV aOgog384l0rDuHRZEcqhWVmKE0tNb1D95xLVOZ7gQbPZUvtD+HuWIEgG2WS95spe UyLD7HdwiMQ= =1cKf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --66fzjyEOf0WBOmi+-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 01:32:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B2A16A4C0 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B7244028 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 01:32:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h838Womg086564; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:32:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h838Wocu086563; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:32:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:32:50 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Daniel Lang Message-ID: <20030903083250.GB86534@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <1062469541.642.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <1062507323.2163.6.camel@prophecy.velum> <20030902134043.GB17646@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <200309021405.40906.wes@softweyr.com> <20030903081325.GA27941@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030903081325.GA27941@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.9-PRERELEASE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Addition to reboot(8): reboot / halt reasons X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:32:56 -0000 On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 10:13:25AM +0200, Daniel Lang wrote: > Hi, > > Wes Peters wrote on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:05:40PM -0700: > [..] > > reboot and halt are BSD commands, shutdown SYSV-ish. Shutdown has all > > those nice "professional" options to warn users, schedule a shutdown in > > a few minutes, etc. Reboot and halt expect you to already know how to > > use at(1) and wall(1) to effect the same results, and to write a script > > if you really want to do that over and over again. > [..] > > I tend to disagree. AFAIK was shutdown part of BSD already in the > early days. > The usage differs from SysV shutdown, though. > IMHO SysV-ish would be to use "init ". Slightly more correct: telinit -- | / o / /_ _ wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 04:10:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D75616A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (chuggalug.demon.co.uk [62.49.17.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF8F43FFB; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 04:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h83B6GVp030367; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:06:16 GMT (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h83B6Fag030366; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:06:15 GMT Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:06:15 +0000 From: Geoff Buckingham To: Max Clark Message-ID: <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> References: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:10:26 -0000 On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 03:53:53PM -0700, Max Clark wrote: > Depends on whether you plan on crashing or not :) According to > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2003-July/000181.html, > you may not want to create filesystems over 3TB if you want fsck to > succeed. I don't know if that's using the default newfs settings > (which would create an insane number of inodes), though. > > - This is a big problem (no pun intended), my smallest requirement is still > 5TB... what would you recommend? The smallest file on the storage will be > 500MB. > If you files are all going this large I imagine you should look carefully at what you do with inodes, block and cluster sizes However I just read the newfs man page and am intrigued to know what effect the -g and -h options have.... -g avgfilesize The expected average file size for the file system. -h avgfpdir The expected average number of files per directory on the file system. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 06:23:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7412B16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B1C2D43FEA; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 3 Sep 2003 14:23:08 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:23:03 +0100 From: David Malone To: Geoff Buckingham Message-ID: <20030903132303.GA53246@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:23:11 -0000 On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 11:06:15AM +0000, Geoff Buckingham wrote: > However I just read the newfs man page and am intrigued to know what effect > the -g and -h options have.... > > -g avgfilesize > The expected average file size for the file system. > > -h avgfpdir > The expected average number of files per directory on the file > system. I believe these are used by the dirpref stuff to decide how to distribute files and directories evenly throughout the dis. David. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 10:05:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C7E16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cyberonic.com (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334BB43FD7; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (node-40244c0a.sfo.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.76.10]) by mail.cyberonic.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h83HnWbi003599; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:49:33 -0400 Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.12.9/8.11.6) id h83H5U21048892; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:05:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:05:30 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Denis Troshin Message-ID: <20030903170530.GD16766@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Denis Troshin , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:05:45 -0000 Denis Troshin wrote this message on Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 16:58 +0700: Sorry for all the responses that don't directly answer your question, but you did ask it in a rather tactless way by saying it's a mess w/o understanding the reasoning behind it. > Almost every package I install requires a few other packages. This > 'idea of using dependent packages' turns FreeBSD (and other > unix-systems) to an ugly monster. This is because the packages are ment to be a one size fits all system. If you want to eliminate some of the dependancies, then you are free to build the port yourself. There is plenty of documentation in the handbook about how the port system works. > For example, I don't need Perl or Python but a few packages I install > require them. This is for the people that do want the perl and/or python extensions that the package provides. The packages are targeted at the widest audience. If you don't need them, then build the port yourself. > Does exist a programming under unix without these dependencies? > > P.S. Under Windows it is possible to write not bad applications which > depend just on libraries (KERNEL32, USER32, GDI32). And these libs > exist on every base system!!! Just like libc, libcrypto, libcurses, libssl, etc. It's just that some of the GNU libraries change too often, and are not used by the base system. As someone else pointed out, you have to have vbrunXXX.dll installed and of the proper version. Many windows installs tell you how/where to download said app. Though windows doesn't let you just run a single command like: pkg_add -r python and automaticly get the program installed. The real problem is the ports software. You need to complain to the authors of the ports for writing the code in this manner. We choose to make the software easier to install so new people don't have to learn as much about configuring and installing software. If you don't like the ports system, we don't for you to use it. You can just go out and build and install all the software by hand. > Is it possible in unix? > > Before I thought that unix programs very compact, but they are huge! They are, it's just some aren't writen to be small. I hope this help you understand. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 10:16:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012DC16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9DE43FCB; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:16:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org ([66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h83HGtkX010475; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3F562207.5080907@acm.org> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:16:55 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser References: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <20030902205418.GB30374@genius.tao.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Booting a machine over the network without pxe. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:16:58 -0000 Josef Karthauser wrote: > Does anyone have any experience of booting a machine over the > network, like pxeboot, but without running PXE on a network card. > I imagine that it should be possible to load pxeboot at the boot: > prompt and have everything just work. pxeboot requires that you have a PXE BIOS available. Loosely speaking, PXE is three different things: * A BIOS that provides basic network operations, * A "multicast" TFTP that is designed for rapidly network booting very large numbers of machines simultaneously. (Few people use this; fewer people need it.) * A network boot model in which the PXE BIOS loads a "network boot loader" that then uses the PXE BIOS services to load and boot an OS kernel. The network boot model for PXE closely mirrors the traditional model for booting a PC from hard disk: BIOS loads boot loader that uses BIOS services to load OS. Note that without the PXE BIOS, the 'pxeboot' program is useless, since it relies on the PXE BIOS services. If you want to load the kernel over the network, you need something that knows how to talk to your network adapter. If it ain't in ROM, it has to come from somewhere else. However, there is another approach. You can do a "partial netboot" by loading the kernel from disk (maybe even a floppy?) and then doing a classic netboot after that. Just enable the BOOTP and BOOTP_NFSROOT options in the kernel and load it from disk. The rest is "just" server configuration. Hint: If you statically compile everything necessary into your kernel, this is all much simpler. Good luck, Tim Kientzle From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 11:02:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA0C16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Chow.corp.media.net (rottie.media.net [66.113.65.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C247543FCB; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max.clark@media.net) Received: from MCLARK (76.0.6.10.IN-ADDR.ARPA [10.6.0.76]) by Chow.corp.media.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id HKNGKM00.J4F; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:57:58 -0700 From: "Max Clark" To: "Petri Helenius" Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:08:28 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F56210E.7010206@he.iki.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: RE: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:02:44 -0000 Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE could address more than 4GB of Ram. - The PAE support allows FreeBSD machines to make use of more than 4 gigabytes of RAM. This functionality was originally written by Jake Burkholder under contract with DARPA and Network Associates Laboratories. Additional changes for individual device drivers will follow in the coming weeks. If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? Is there anyway to bypass this requirement and split fsck into smaller chunks? Being able to fsck my disk is kinda important. I have zero experience with either itanium or opteron. What is the current status of support for these processors in FreeBSD? What would the preferred CPU be? Will there be PCI cards that I would not be able to use in either of these systems? Thanks, -Max -----Original Message----- From: Petri Helenius [mailto:pete@he.iki.fi] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:13 AM To: Max Clark Cc: Dan Nelson; freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System Max Clark wrote: >- What exactly is the fsck problem? What do I do about it? > > > fsck requires approximately 700k memory for each gigabyte of disk space. I´m unfortunately not familiar enough with the issue how this splits out for blocks and inodes (for example if having only a million inodes on a 10TB fs would make it tolerable) but taking the figure presented earlier, you would need 7GB of memory for checking a 10TB filesystem. Having that kind of memory for a single process neccessiates a 64bit system, like sparc64, alpha, itanic or opteron. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 11:16:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D11716A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158EB43FDF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:16:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [204.177.173.28]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h83IGtob047140; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:16:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3F563014.5050504@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:16:52 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Clark References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:16:58 -0000 Max Clark wrote: > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE > could address more than 4GB of Ram. > > - The PAE support allows FreeBSD machines to make use of more than 4 > gigabytes of RAM. This functionality was originally written by Jake > Burkholder under contract with DARPA and Network Associates Laboratories. > Additional changes for individual device drivers will follow in the coming > weeks. > > If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram > for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give > me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? > > Is there anyway to bypass this requirement and split fsck into smaller > chunks? Being able to fsck my disk is kinda important. Is it possible for you to break up the 10TB partitions into 4TB partitions? If you could ccd those two 10TB RAIDs together into one 20TB ccd'd "drive", then partition that "drive" into 5 4TB chunks, you could get away with it knowing that an fsck would take a LONG time, and use up to 3GB of memory.. in theory. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 11:20:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E3B16A4C1; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E4B43F85; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h83IKl7c028675; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:20:47 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h83IKl6s028674; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:20:47 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:20:47 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Max Clark Message-ID: <20030903182046.GA6161@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3F56210E.7010206@he.iki.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) on odin.ac.hmc.edu cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Petri Helenius Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:20:51 -0000 [Please, please, please fix your mailer to quote properly. It's very difficult to read your messages.] On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 11:08:28AM -0700, Max Clark wrote: > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE > could address more than 4GB of Ram. > > - The PAE support allows FreeBSD machines to make use of more than 4 > gigabytes of RAM. This functionality was originally written by Jake > Burkholder under contract with DARPA and Network Associates Laboratories. > Additional changes for individual device drivers will follow in the coming > weeks. > > If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram > for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give > me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? PAE increases the amount of RAM available, but does nothing to increase the address space so a given process may not address more then 2GB of RAM. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 11:23:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6C116A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver.he.iki.fi (helenius.fi [193.64.42.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2999E43FD7; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Received: from he.iki.fi (h81.vuokselantie10.fi [193.64.42.129]) by silver.he.iki.fi (8.12.9/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h83IN02k012985; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:23:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Message-ID: <3F563183.3080103@he.iki.fi> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:22:59 +0300 From: Petri Helenius User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Clark References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:23:03 -0000 Max Clark wrote: >Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE >could address more than 4GB of Ram. > > It does. However as long as a pointer is 32 bits, your address space for a process is maxed out at 4G which translates to about 2.5G user after kernel and other things have taken their toll. >If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram >for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give >me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? > PAE functions correctly but does not provide for 7G address space. >Is there anyway to bypass this requirement and split fsck into smaller >chunks? Being able to fsck my disk is kinda important. > > Yes, you do that by splitting up the filesystem to smaller filesystems. Kind of obvious? >I have zero experience with either itanium or opteron. What is the current >status of support for these processors in FreeBSD? What would the preferred >CPU be? Will there be PCI cards that I would not be able to use in either of >these systems? > > I´m personally biased towards the Opteron, but that´s more based on that it makes more sense than their technical merits so far (because neither has too much). Both CPU´s should work fine with 5.2 according to the TODO list. Meanwhile I suggest you play with the number of inodes on the 10TB filesystem and see how that affects the memory usage. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 11:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E715C16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pop018.verizon.net (pop018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E143743FEC; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:38:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from mac.com ([68.237.14.199]) by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030903183805.TSH11703.pop018.verizon.net@mac.com>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:38:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3F5634FE.9080303@mac.com> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:37:50 -0400 From: Chuck Swiger Organization: The Courts of Chaos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [68.237.14.199] at Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:38:04 -0500 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:38:07 -0000 Max Clark wrote: > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE > could address more than 4GB of Ram. It can. PAE lets the hardware address more than 4GB of RAM, but that doesn't change how much memory you can give to any one process: a 32-bit process still has a 32-bit virtual address space. > If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram > for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give > me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? Another thread suggests that the maximum amount of memory actually available for a 32-bit process to use under FreeBSD is a little less than 3 GB. > Is there anyway to bypass this requirement and split fsck into smaller > chunks? Being able to fsck my disk is kinda important. Sure. Create multiple filesystems rather than just one, and use symlinks to make the directory namespace fit your needs. I don't know enough about your tasks to give you really specific advice, but I'm wary of the write-performance hit from putting too many drives wide in a RAID-5 (or -5,0) configuration. If you can split up your data by role or typical access pattern, you might well be able to identify some chunks that will be read-mostly (and RAID-5,0 is a good fit) and others that will be read-write or even write-mostly (and thus should be on -1,0). You can also tune other things like blocksize, # of inodes, and so forth more appropriately for each filesystem. -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 11:38:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A3C16A4C3; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56B743FE1; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org ([66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h83IcekX010776; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3F56352F.7050701@acm.org> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:38:39 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Clark References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Petri Helenius Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:38:44 -0000 Max Clark wrote: > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE > could address more than 4GB of Ram. That's >4G of memory in the system. 32-bit processors are still limited to 4G processor address space, which means <3G per process (allowing some memory for kernel operations). You can't get around that unless you either go for a 64-bit processor or do some complex coding to break your application storage across multiple processes. I used to work with systems where the processor address space was smaller than the physical memory. We worked out a lot of different strategies for breaking applications into multiple processes to take advantage of more physical memory. But remarkably few apps ever did utilize such tricks. In the end, it was cheaper to buy a wider processor than to retool the applications. I would be surprised if anyone went to the considerable effort of rewriting fsck just for PAE. Even worse, as physical memory grows, so do kernel requirements. At some point, increasing the physical memory will actually reduce the memory available per process. Simply put, PAE is a band-aid that is only useful on systems that run a lot of small processes. > If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram > for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give > me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? You can check 10TB of disk, just not a 10TB file system. > Is there anyway to bypass this requirement and split fsck into smaller > chunks? Being able to fsck my disk is kinda important. You can split fsck into smaller chunks by splitting your filesystem into smaller chunks. Having smaller filesystems also helps if you do have a disk problem, since the problem is likely to only affect a single filesystem. (A full fsck is time-consuming; you'd like to limit it's scope as far as possible.) There are also filesystems that claim to not require fsck. You might look into XFS, EXT3FS, or JFS and see if any of those fill the bill. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 12:12:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0F916A4BF for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F11643F93 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RicardoMesquita@netcabo.pt) Received: from netcabo.pt ([81.84.156.94]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:10:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3F563D27.7000104@netcabo.pt> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:12:39 +0100 From: Ricardo Mesquita User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030708 X-Accept-Language: pt, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2003 19:10:02.0277 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9EFE550:01C3724E] Subject: FreeBSD 5.1 + kernel recompile X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:12:43 -0000 hi, strange thing is happening, i just recompiled the kernel, and before i go back to previous state, i want to show to you on a sense, if this is new, whats happening on boot time. ---------------- /var/log/messages ------------ Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron syslogd: kernel boot file is /boot/kernel/kernel Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: er Int Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 296 usb RW Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 344 intrnames R *Handler Opaque/struct Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 345 intrcnt R *Handler Opaque/struct Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 361 availpages R *Handler Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 409 bus RW Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 410 devctl_disable RW *Handler Int Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 411 info RW *Handler Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 412 devices R *Handler Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 413 rman R *Handler Node ---------------- /var/log/messages ------------ http://daemon.home.sapo.pt/messages http://daemon.home.sapo.pt/XPTOKERNEL do you see there any option that should be enabled? or are those errors on boot uncommon and the outcame of a bad compilation cycle? afaik build/install kernel resulted on _no errors_. And, i can boot the sys up, X is working all ports seem to be working. thanks From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 12:59:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE18E16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver.he.iki.fi (helenius.fi [193.64.42.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C79B43FA3; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Received: from he.iki.fi (h81.vuokselantie10.fi [193.64.42.129]) by silver.he.iki.fi (8.12.9/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h83Jwi2k013456; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:58:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Message-ID: <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:58:43 +0300 From: Petri Helenius User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoff Buckingham References: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> In-Reply-To: <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:59:13 -0000 Geoff Buckingham wrote: >>- This is a big problem (no pun intended), my smallest requirement is still >>5TB... what would you recommend? The smallest file on the storage will be >>500MB. >> >> >> >If you files are all going this large I imagine you should look carefully at >what you do with inodes, block and cluster sizes > > fsck problem should be gone with less inodes and less blocks since if I read the code correctly, memory is consumed according to used inodes and blocks so having like 20000 inodes and 64k blocks should allow you to build 5-20T filesystem and actually fsck them. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 13:05:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE6816A4D7 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15D6C43F85 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:04:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RicardoMesquita@netcabo.pt) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt ([192.168.16.35]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:01:46 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6470.0 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:02:56 +0100 Message-ID: <5CD2BD8F1F23A943BAEBE96AB20C249802828BB6@VS1.hdi.tvcabo> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FreeBSD 5.1 + kernel recompile Thread-Index: AcNyT03cbnzF+5OZR2qcgn5fsplKQQABmkBq From: "RicardoMesquita" To: "RicardoMesquita" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2003 20:01:46.0279 (UTC) FILETIME=[34110370:01C37256] Subject: RE: FreeBSD 5.1 + kernel recompile [fixed] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:05:00 -0000 -----Mensagem original----- De: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org em nome de RicardoMesquita Enviada: qua 9/3/2003 8:12 PM Para: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc:=09 Assunto: FreeBSD 5.1 + kernel recompile hi, strange thing is happening, i just recompiled the kernel, and before i=20 go back to previous state, i want to show to you on a sense, if this is=20 new, whats happening on boot time. ---------------- /var/log/messages ------------ Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron syslogd: kernel boot file is = /boot/kernel/kernel Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: er Int Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 296 usb RW Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 344 intrnames R *Handler = Opaque/struct Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 345 intrcnt R *Handler Opaque/struct Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 361 availpages R *Handler Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 409 bus RW Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 410 devctl_disable RW *Handler Int Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 411 info RW *Handler Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 412 devices R *Handler Node Sep 3 19:27:25 lordaeron kernel: 413 rman R *Handler Node ---------------- /var/log/messages ------------ http://daemon.home.sapo.pt/messages http://daemon.home.sapo.pt/XPTOKERNEL do you see there any option that should be enabled? or are those errors=20 on boot uncommon and the outcame of a bad compilation cycle? afaik=20 build/install kernel resulted on _no errors_. And, i can boot the sys=20 up, X is working all ports seem to be working. thanks _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" nevermind, i should had sorted this first, it ended to be an error on my = sysctl.conf sorry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 13:07:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BA516A50C for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD2943FE3 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:07:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h83K71i8064331; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:07:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Petri Helenius From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:58:43 +0300." <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:07:01 +0200 Message-ID: <64330.1062619621@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:07:29 -0000 In message <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi>, Petri Helenius writes: >fsck problem should be gone with less inodes and less blocks since if >I read the code correctly, memory is consumed according to used inodes >and blocks so having like 20000 inodes and 64k blocks should allow >you to build 5-20T filesystem and actually fsck them. I am not sure I would advocate 64k blocks yet. I tend to stick with 32k block, 4k fragment myself. This is a problem which is in the cross-hairs for 6.x -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 13:24:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F8C16A4BF for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver.he.iki.fi (helenius.fi [193.64.42.241]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CCC43FBD for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Received: from he.iki.fi (h81.vuokselantie10.fi [193.64.42.129]) by silver.he.iki.fi (8.12.9/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h83KON2k013574; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:24:23 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from pete@he.iki.fi) Message-ID: <3F564DF6.3090200@he.iki.fi> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:24:22 +0300 From: Petri Helenius User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp References: <64330.1062619621@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <64330.1062619621@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:24:30 -0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >I am not sure I would advocate 64k blocks yet. > > Good to know, I have stuck with 16k so far due to the fact that our database has pagesize of 16k and I found little benefit tuning that. (but it´s completely different application) >I tend to stick with 32k block, 4k fragment myself. > >This is a problem which is in the cross-hairs for 6.x > > You have any insight into the fsck memory consumption? I remember getting myself saved quite a long time ago by reducing the number of inodes. Pete From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 13:28:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F5616A4EB for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FC643F75 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h83KSZi8064485; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:28:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Petri Helenius From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:24:22 +0300." <3F564DF6.3090200@he.iki.fi> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:28:35 +0200 Message-ID: <64484.1062620915@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:28:40 -0000 In message <3F564DF6.3090200@he.iki.fi>, Petri Helenius writes: >You have any insight into the fsck memory consumption? I remember getting >myself saved quite a long time ago by reducing the number of inodes. I have not studied it. I always try to avoid having more than an order of magnitude more inodes than I need, it also saves fsck time. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 13:42:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31AA16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D1643FDF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([12.233.125.100]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2003090320420601400do7ihe>; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:42:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA30757; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:42:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@freebsd.org, re@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: possible change for 4.9 rc file? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:42:10 -0000 Here is a small (logically) change I have in /etc/rc to allow the user to use /etc/rc in a jail by setting bootmode="jail" in /etc/rc.conf basically several parts of the code have been moved into case ${bootmode} in jail) ;; *) foo esac any commens? is is a good idea? is it something that migh make it to 4.9? julian (is 4.9 frozen yet?) hmm goes to look at web page.. --cut'mn'pasted diff.. ipm0# diff -u /etc/rc etc/rc --- /etc/rc Mon Jul 28 18:33:07 2003 +++ etc/rc Wed Sep 3 13:31:51 2003 @@ -1,4 +1,5 @@ #!/bin/sh +set -x # # Copyright (c) 2000 The FreeBSD Project # All rights reserved. @@ -195,39 +196,45 @@ # root normally must be read/write, but if this is a BOOTP NFS # diskless boot it does not have to be. # -case ${root_rw_mount} in -[Nn][Oo] | '') +case ${bootmode} in +jail) ;; *) - if ! mount -u -o rw /; then - echo 'Mounting root filesystem rw failed, startup aborted' - exit 1 - fi - ;; -esac + case ${root_rw_mount} in + [Nn][Oo] | '') + ;; + *) + if ! mount -u -o rw /; then + echo 'Mounting root filesystem rw failed, startup aborted' + exit 1 + fi + ;; + esac -umount -a >/dev/null 2>&1 + umount -a >/dev/null 2>&1 -# If using diskless, run custom disk mounting function here -# -if [ -n "${diskless_mount}" -a -r "${diskless_mount}" ]; then - sh ${diskless_mount} -else -# otherwise mount everything except nfs filesystems. - mount -a -t nonfs -fi + # If using diskless, run custom disk mounting function here + # + if [ -n "${diskless_mount}" -a -r "${diskless_mount}" ]; then + sh ${diskless_mount} + else + # otherwise mount everything except nfs filesystems. + mount -a -t nonfs + fi -case $? in -0) - ;; -*) - echo 'Mounting /etc/fstab filesystems failed, startup aborted' - exit 1 + case $? in + 0) + ;; + *) + echo 'Mounting /etc/fstab filesystems failed, startup aborted' + exit 1 + ;; + esac + + adjkerntz -i ;; esac -adjkerntz -i - purgedir() { local dir file @@ -273,67 +280,80 @@ rm -f /var/run/clean_var /var/spool/lock/clean_var clean_var -# Add additional swapfile, if configured. -# -case ${swapfile} in -[Nn][Oo] | '') +case ${bootmode} in +jail) + # Host machine has done pass1. + # Pass 2 is dubious for a jail + # but ok as long as we don't enable things we shouldn't. + if [ -r /etc/rc.network ]; then + . /etc/rc.network # We only need to do this once. + fi + network_pass1_done=YES ;; *) - if [ -w "${swapfile}" -a -c /dev/vn0b ]; then - echo "Adding ${swapfile} as additional swap" - vnconfig -e /dev/vn0b ${swapfile} swap + # Add additional swapfile, if configured. + # + case ${swapfile} in + [Nn][Oo] | '') + ;; + *) + if [ -w "${swapfile}" -a -c /dev/vn0b ]; then + echo "Adding ${swapfile} as additional swap" + vnconfig -e /dev/vn0b ${swapfile} swap + fi + ;; + esac + + # Early pass to set the variables we can + # + if [ -r /etc/rc.sysctl ]; then + sh /etc/rc.sysctl first fi - ;; -esac -# Early pass to set the variables we can -# -if [ -r /etc/rc.sysctl ]; then - sh /etc/rc.sysctl first -fi + # Configure serial devices + # + if [ -r /etc/rc.serial ]; then + . /etc/rc.serial + fi -# Configure serial devices -# -if [ -r /etc/rc.serial ]; then - . /etc/rc.serial -fi + # Start up PC-card configuration + # + if [ -r /etc/rc.pccard ]; then + . /etc/rc.pccard + fi -# Start up PC-card configuration -# -if [ -r /etc/rc.pccard ]; then - . /etc/rc.pccard -fi + # Start up the initial network configuration. + # + if [ -r /etc/rc.network ]; then + . /etc/rc.network # We only need to do this once. + network_pass1 + fi -# Start up the initial network configuration. -# -if [ -r /etc/rc.network ]; then - . /etc/rc.network # We only need to do this once. - network_pass1 -fi + case ${ipv6_enable} in + [Yy][Ee][Ss]) + if [ -r /etc/rc.network6 ]; then + . /etc/rc.network6 # We only need to do this once also. + network6_pass1 + fi + ;; + esac -case ${ipv6_enable} in -[Yy][Ee][Ss]) - if [ -r /etc/rc.network6 ]; then - . /etc/rc.network6 # We only need to do this once also. - network6_pass1 - fi - ;; -esac + # Mount NFS filesystems if present in /etc/fstab + # + case "`mount -d -a -t nfs 2> /dev/null`" in + *mount_nfs*) + echo -n 'Mounting NFS file systems:' + mount -a -t nfs + echo '.' + ;; + esac -# Mount NFS filesystems if present in /etc/fstab -# -case "`mount -d -a -t nfs 2> /dev/null`" in -*mount_nfs*) - echo -n 'Mounting NFS file systems:' - mount -a -t nfs - echo '.' + # If we booted a special kernel remove the record so we will boot + # the default kernel next time + # + rm -f /boot/nextboot.conf ;; esac - -# If we booted a special kernel remove the record so we will boot -# the default kernel next time -# -rm -f /boot/nextboot.conf # Whack the pty perms back into shape. # From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 23:16:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9DE16A4BF for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 19FC943FF2 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 52573 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 06:16:06 -0000 Received: from niwun.pair.com (HELO localhost) (209.68.2.70) by relay.pair.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 06:16:06 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 209.68.2.70 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:14:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Don Bowman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030904011346.K16553@odysseus.silby.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: non reliable nmi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 06:16:09 -0000 On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Don Bowman wrote: > I have machdep.ddb_on_nmi=1. > I can drop into the debugger with the magic > key sequence. However, when i hit the NMI > jumper, i don't always go there. Sometimes > I do. > The system is 4-way SMP [2xHTT xeon processors] > with 4.7. > > Any suggestion on where my NMI might be going? Is your NMI about 106K in size, and does it have the subjects "Thank you", "Wicked screensaver" and others? If so, I think I know where it's going... Mike "Silby" Silbersack From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 3 23:39:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF47116A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708AE43FDD; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:39:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from cluster5 ([172.23.146.54]) by smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:20:53 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by cluster5 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:37:09 +0100 Received: from smtp-in4.blueyonder.co.uk ([172.23.146.15]) by cluster5 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:25:39 +0100 Received: from exim11.blueyonder.co.uk ([195.188.213.46]) by smtp-in4.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:24:08 +0100 Received: from [216.136.204.119] (helo=mx2.freebsd.org) by exim11.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19uXcG-0000Qi-Nd for xtalsinger@blueyonder.co.uk; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:24:08 +0100 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC39E56B84; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F48316A530; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7412B16A4BF; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B1C2D43FEA; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 3 Sep 2003 14:23:08 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:23:03 +0100 From: David Malone To: Geoff Buckingham Message-ID: <20030903132303.GA53246@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Sent-To: xtalsinger@blueyonder.co.uk X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2003 13:24:08.0853 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7EEB450:01C3721E] cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 06:39:32 -0000 On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 11:06:15AM +0000, Geoff Buckingham wrote: > However I just read the newfs man page and am intrigued to know what effect > the -g and -h options have.... > > -g avgfilesize > The expected average file size for the file system. > > -h avgfpdir > The expected average number of files per directory on the file > system. I believe these are used by the dirpref stuff to decide how to distribute files and directories evenly throughout the dis. David. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 01:14:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7B216A4BF; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D7743FF5; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0e8.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.200] helo=mindspring.com) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19upG3-0006YA-00; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:14:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3F56F3FD.C636781@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:12:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max Clark References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a45da0b3071c5aaf85155b6e8415be78b693caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Petri Helenius Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:14:33 -0000 Max Clark wrote: > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE > could address more than 4GB of Ram. The kernel being able to address the RAM does not meant that the KVA+UVA space is larger than 4G. At best, you could take the uiomove/copyin/copyout performance hit, and move both of thse to 4G, each, rather than 4G total. That still limits you to 4G. > If fsck requires 700K for each 1GB of Disk, we are talking about 7GB of Ram > for 10TB of disk. Is this correct? Will PAE not function correctly to give > me 8GB of Ram? To check 10TB of disk? No, it will not. > Is there anyway to bypass this requirement and split fsck into smaller > chunks? Being able to fsck my disk is kinda important. Yes. Limit the number of CG bitmaps you examine simultaneously, and make the operation multiple pass over the disk. This is not that hard a modification to fsck, and it can be done fairly quickly by anyone who understands the code. The code in time to fsck the disk will go up inversely proportionally to the amount of RAM it's allowed to use, which is limited to the UVA size minus the fsck program size itself, and the fsck buffers used for things like FS metadata for a given file/directory. > I have zero experience with either itanium or opteron. What is the current > status of support for these processors in FreeBSD? What would the preferred > CPU be? Will there be PCI cards that I would not be able to use in either of > these systems? I have no idea whether these systems support a larger UVA size, or how much memory you could jam into them... -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 01:47:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D03C16A4BF; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3495843FA3; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:46:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@freebsd.org) Received: from master.dougb.net (12-234-22-23.client.attbi.com[12.234.22.23](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20030904084656015003eocke>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:46:56 +0000 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:46:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Julian Elischer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030904014531.M14937@znfgre.qbhto.arg> References: Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: re@freebsd.org Subject: Re: possible change for 4.9 rc file? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:47:00 -0000 I oppose this going in prior to 4.9 just on general principles. The concept looks sound on a very light review though. If you'd like more in depth review, please forward your patch to freebsd-rc@yahoogroups.com. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 04:06:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B869C16A4BF; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (chuggalug.demon.co.uk [62.49.17.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F9C43FDD; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 04:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h84B1vVp035853; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:01:57 GMT (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h84B1uDu035852; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:01:56 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:01:55 +0000 From: Geoff Buckingham To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20030904110155.GA35273@chuggalug.clues.com> References: <3F56F3FD.C636781@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F56F3FD.C636781@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:06:03 -0000 On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 01:12:45AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Yes. Limit the number of CG bitmaps you examine simultaneously, > and make the operation multiple pass over the disk. This is not > that hard a modification to fsck, and it can be done fairly > quickly by anyone who understands the code. The code in time to > fsck the disk will go up inversely proportionally to the amount > of RAM it's allowed to use, which is limited to the UVA size > minus the fsck program size itself, and the fsck buffers used for > things like FS metadata for a given file/directory. > > Pardon my ignorance but does the number of inodes in the filesystem have a significant impact on the memory requirement of fsck? I ask as it was previously stated the smallest file on the 10TB filessytem would be 500MB which would enable a vastley reduced number of inodes and possibly very large block fragment and cluster sizes? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 06:16:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D83516A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sandvine.com (sandvine.com [199.243.201.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8646343FBF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from don@sandvine.com) Received: by mail.sandvine.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:16:30 -0400 Message-ID: From: Don Bowman To: 'Mike Silbersack' , Don Bowman Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:16:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: non reliable nmi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:16:32 -0000 > From: Mike Silbersack [mailto:silby@silby.com] > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Don Bowman wrote: > > > I have machdep.ddb_on_nmi=1. > > I can drop into the debugger with the magic > > key sequence. However, when i hit the NMI > > jumper, i don't always go there. Sometimes > > I do. > > The system is 4-way SMP [2xHTT xeon processors] > > with 4.7. > > > > Any suggestion on where my NMI might be going? > > Is your NMI about 106K in size, and does it have the subjects > "Thank you", > "Wicked screensaver" and others? If so, I think I know where it's > going... ? it was actually a serious question. The nmi header on my board goes into the ICH-3 of my chipset, but shorting the jumper out doesn't always enter the debugger. It does sometimes. If I set the NMI_NOW bit in the ICH-3 I always enter the debugger. I was curious if anyone else had seen this behaviour. --don From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 06:41:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABA416A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.online.bg (gandalf.online.bg [217.75.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EE5643FCB for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@ringlet.net) Received: (qmail 12763 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 13:33:54 -0000 Received: from office.sbnd.net (HELO straylight.ringlet.net) (217.75.140.130) by gandalf.online.bg with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 13:33:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 77469 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Sep 2003 13:12:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:12:44 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Don Bowman Message-ID: <20030904131244.GU556@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Don Bowman , 'Mike Silbersack' , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: non reliable nmi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:41:43 -0000 --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 09:16:23AM -0400, Don Bowman wrote: > > From: Mike Silbersack [mailto:silby@silby.com] > > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Don Bowman wrote: > >=20 > > > I have machdep.ddb_on_nmi=3D1. > > > I can drop into the debugger with the magic > > > key sequence. However, when i hit the NMI > > > jumper, i don't always go there. Sometimes > > > I do. > > > The system is 4-way SMP [2xHTT xeon processors] > > > with 4.7. > > > > > > Any suggestion on where my NMI might be going? > >=20 > > Is your NMI about 106K in size, and does it have the subjects=20 > > "Thank you", > > "Wicked screensaver" and others? If so, I think I know where it's > > going... >=20 > ? > it was actually a serious question. The nmi header on > my board goes into the ICH-3 of my chipset, but shorting the > jumper out doesn't always enter the debugger. It does > sometimes. If I set the NMI_NOW bit in the ICH-3 I always > enter the debugger. I was curious if anyone else had seen > this behaviour. I haven't kept quite up to date on my x86 hardware lately (read: in the past five to ten years), but I distinctly remember a time when everyone referred to x86's NMI as a joke: a non-maskable interrupt that anyone could mask using a simple CLI instruction. Not sure if this is still the case, others would have to say if today's processors still may get so wedged that a NMI request would simply be ignored. The other possibility is some kind of kernel mess-up, bad enough that an NMI does indeed reach the processor, the processor does invoke the NMI handler, yet the handler (DDB) is quite unable to actually do any useful work - messed up data structures and such. G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@sbnd.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 This sentence no verb. --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/VzpM7Ri2jRYZRVMRAr7gAKC2n59BnE2gncwgQ0gGAKSOxNAxnwCgp4iE 2XLZcLw/PhsiWnJH/WxLurc= =wstU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AkbCVLjbJ9qUtAXD-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 06:57:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EED16A4FB for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cvg-65-26-145-190.cinci.rr.com [65.26.145.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC73944008 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h84Dvbax018931; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:57:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from localhost (mrami@localhost)h84Dval5018926; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:57:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: www.bluecirclesoft.com: mrami owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:57:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20030829134054.GA29499@rot13.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: <20030904095614.Y73827@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030828171635.C73827@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030829134054.GA29499@rot13.obsecurity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI - Just got a kernel panic - RELENG_4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:57:39 -0000 On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 05:34:29PM -0400, Marc Ramirez wrote: > > > > supped as of ~ 1:40pm EST today > > > > The panic: > > > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > > This is probably hardware-related, but it's possible it may be due to > a kernel problem. As a first step, you need to try and get a gdb > traceback with debugging symbols as explained in the developer's > handbook on the website. I forgot to turn off the cvsup cron job; I went to rebuild the kernel with DDB, and found out that my code base had changed... Everything works now. I have been unable to reproduce the crash... Thanks for taking the time, though. Marc. -- Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 06:57:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C7116A4EB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F50943FF3; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:57:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h84DuxrO008381; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:56:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h84DuxAa008378; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:56:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Reminder: BSDCon next week in San Mateo! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:57:46 -0000 This is just a friendly reminder e-mail that the BSD Conference is taking place in San Mateo next week, and that if you're planning to attend and haven't yet registered, you might want to. Or, just turn up and register at the door. There's a really strong lineup of FreeBSD-related papers, especially relating to new features in the 5-CURRENT development line. I've attached a list of just some of the interesting things that will be going on there: they include a number of tutorials relating to development and administration, technical session presentations relating to the development of FreeBSD, development of products using FreeBSD, and the deployment of FreeBSD-based systems. And, as always, there will be a variety of invited talks, BoFs and work-in-progress sessions. USENIX has extended their early registration pricing, and also (I believe) has an online registration discount. Multi-employee discounts are also available for companies sending more than one employee. You can find out more about the location, schedule of events, etc, at: http://www.usenix.org/events/bsdcon03/ I look forward to seeing you there! Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories Several excellent tutorials including one on developing storage extensions using GEOM Keynote: Computing Fallacies (or, What Is the World Coming To?) Reasoning about SMP in FreeBSD devd-A Device Configuration Daemon ULE: A Modern Scheduler for FreeBSD An Automated Binary Security Update System for FreeBSD Building a High-performance Computing Cluster Using FreeBSD build.sh: Cross-building NetBSD Invited Talk: Long Range 802.11 WANs BSD Status Reports GBDE-GEOM Based Disk Encryption Cryptographic Device Support for FreeBSD Enhancements to the Fast Filesystem to Support Multi-Terabyte Storage Systems Invited Talk: Social and Technical Implications of Nonproprietary Software Running BSD Kernels as User Processes by Partial Emulation and Rewriting of Machine Instructions A Digital Preservation Network Appliance Based on OpenBSD Using FreeBSD to Render Realtime Localized Audio and Video Work in Progess Reports (WiPs) Tagging Data in the Network Stack: mbuf_tags Fast IPSec: A High-Performance IPsec Implementation The WHBA Project: Experiences "deeply embedding" NetBSD Invited Talk: Post-Digital Possibilities From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 07:50:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20ED16A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 66.237.179.130.ptr.us.xo.net (66.237.179.130.ptr.us.xo.net [66.237.179.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DB19843FF2 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjarvis@vci.com) Received: from no.name.available by 66.237.179.130.ptr.us.xo.net via smtpd (for mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) with SMTP; 4 Sep 2003 14:56:14 UT Received: from mail.vci.com (unverified [192.168.123.105]) by vci-gateway.vci.com; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:53:01 -0400 Message-ID: Received: from mail.vci.com (HROTHGAR [192.168.5.3]) by mail.vci.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id P455C1T4; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:53:14 -0400 From: cjarvis@vci.com Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:56:46 -0400 To: Peter Pentchev , Don Bowman , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" In-Reply-To: <20030904131244.GU556@straylight.oblivion.bg> X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for Windows v2.35w/35 Subject: Re: non reliable nmi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:50:14 -0000 In <20030904131244.GU556@straylight.oblivion.bg>, on 09/04/03 at 09:12 AM, Peter Pentchev said: >I haven't kept quite up to date on my x86 hardware lately (read: in the >past five to ten years), but I distinctly remember a time when everyone >referred to x86's NMI as a joke: a non-maskable interrupt that anyone >could mask using a simple CLI instruction. Not sure if this is still the >case, others would have to say if today's processors still may get so >wedged that a NMI request would simply be ignored. CLI doesn't stop an NMI, but you can mask off NMI in the CMOS RAM. On standard PC-AT platforms anyway. -- Clark ********************************************************************** This email, and any files transmitted with it, are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please advise itmail@vci.com. ********************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 08:47:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD2016A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11DC43FF9 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1])h84FkvJ8106010 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:46:58 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by maul.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h84FkvSa063999 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [10.1.132.3]) by maul.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h84Fkurs063974 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luke.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h84FkuVf079115 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h84FkuEN079114 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:56 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: hackers list Message-ID: <20030904154656.GA77746@luke.immure.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.12.3 on maul.immure.com Subject: getblk() may return NULL, but most caller's don't check for it X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:47:00 -0000 Hi All, While perusing the FreeBSD kernel source code today I noticed that there are several reasons that the getblk() function in vfs_bio.c might decide to return a NULL return code. However, checking both 4-stable and 5-current I can find only place (in 5-curren) where the return value from getblk() is actually checked for the possibility of being NULL (in function cluster_rbuild() in vfs_cluster.c near line 389). In all other instances that I can find the returned value is quickly dereferenced w/o any check. What am I missing here? Is this really a bug, or are there extenuating circumstances that prevent getblk() from returning NULL in actual operation? Thanks for any insight that you may provide. Bob -- Bob Willcox Maslow's Maxim: bob@immure.com If the only tool you have is a hammer, Austin, TX you treat everything like a nail. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 11:53:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F101116A4BF; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D9B43FFB; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:53:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([12.233.125.100]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2003090418532101500r4r2ae>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:53:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA41656; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: <3F56352F.7050701@acm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:53:24 -0000 On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Tim Kientzle wrote: > Max Clark wrote: > > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that 5.x w/ PAE > > could address more than 4GB of Ram. > > That's >4G of memory in the system. 32-bit processors > are still limited to 4G processor address space, which means > <3G per process (allowing some memory for kernel operations). > You can't get around that unless you either go for a 64-bit > processor or do some complex coding to break your application > storage across multiple processes. It's worse than that, becasue I think that to handle >4GB of ram you need to limit your processes to about 2G of virtual space. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 12:34:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E0216A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E7343FE0 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 5702 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2003 19:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 4 Sep 2003 19:34:28 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h84JYP6Y002657; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:34:44 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: cjarvis@vci.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: non reliable nmi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:34:29 -0000 On 04-Sep-2003 cjarvis@vci.com wrote: > In <20030904131244.GU556@straylight.oblivion.bg>, on 09/04/03 > at 09:12 AM, Peter Pentchev said: > >>I haven't kept quite up to date on my x86 hardware lately (read: in the >>past five to ten years), but I distinctly remember a time when everyone >>referred to x86's NMI as a joke: a non-maskable interrupt that anyone >>could mask using a simple CLI instruction. Not sure if this is still the >>case, others would have to say if today's processors still may get so >>wedged that a NMI request would simply be ignored. > > CLI doesn't stop an NMI, but you can mask off NMI in the CMOS RAM. On > standard PC-AT platforms anyway. The bug is probably in FreeBSD in that we mask the NMI LVT entry in the local APIC on all the APs and only leave it enabled in the BSP. Thus, if your NMI gets sent to one of the APs, it is effectively ignored. You can try fixing this in mpapic.c like so: Index: mpapic.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/i386/mpapic.c,v retrieving revision 1.64 diff -u -r1.64 mpapic.c --- mpapic.c 25 Aug 2003 09:48:47 -0000 1.64 +++ mpapic.c 4 Sep 2003 18:40:47 -0000 @@ -74,7 +74,9 @@ /* setup LVT2 as NMI, masked till later... */ temp = lapic.lvt_lint1; temp &= ~(APIC_LVT_M | APIC_LVT_TM | APIC_LVT_IIPP | APIC_LVT_DM); - temp |= 0x00010400; /* masked, edge trigger, active hi */ + temp |= 0x00000400; /* edge trigger, active hi */ + if (PCPU_GET(cpuid) == 0) + temp |= APIC_LVT_MSET; /* masked till later */ lapic.lvt_lint1 = temp; -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 13:01:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D64216A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.advantagecom.net (mail.advantagecom.net [65.103.151.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B6A43FE1 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andykinney@advantagecom.net) Received: from SCSI-MONSTER (scsi-monster.advantagecom.net [207.109.186.200]) by mail.advantagecom.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h84K17o24974 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:01:07 -0700 From: "Andrew Kinney" Organization: Advantagecom Networks, Inc. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:59:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <3F573729.8917.53574D7@localhost> Priority: normal References: <3F56352F.7050701@acm.org> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: andykinney@advantagecom.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:01:09 -0000 On 4 Sep 2003, at 11:53, Julian Elischer wrote: > On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Tim Kientzle wrote: > > > Max Clark wrote: > > > Ohh, that's an interesting snag. I was under the impression that > > > 5.x w/ PAE could address more than 4GB of Ram. > > > > That's >4G of memory in the system. 32-bit processors > > are still limited to 4G processor address space, which means > > <3G per process (allowing some memory for kernel operations). > > You can't get around that unless you either go for a 64-bit > > processor or do some complex coding to break your application > > storage across multiple processes. > > > It's worse than that, becasue I think that to handle >4GB of ram you > need to limit your processes to about 2G of virtual space. > Our experience has been that with 4GB of RAM (or more) you really must increase your KVA to 2GB, leaving only 2GB of UVA. So, I would concur with what Julian said. ;-) With the lack of third party filesystem support in FreeBSD, might you be better served by looking at a Linux system running ReiserFS or one of the other file systems designed for such behemoth disk systems? These days, I think Sun even gives away Solaris licenses with their low end x86 servers, so that might even be an option. UFS is great, but there are other filesystems out there that have already addressed such problems from their use in academic, government, and scientific computing where gigantic filesystems tend to be more prevalent. >From my brief research on the subject, the FreeBSD community has been highly resistant to supporting third party filesystems precisely because nobody with such needs as yours has ever contributed the code necessary to make third party filesystem support a reality. The response is usually something like "if you want it, go program it and submit it to a committer for review," which is really the only reasonable response that can be made given FreeBSD's goals. C'est la vie. Sincerely, Andrew Kinney President and Chief Technology Officer Advantagecom Networks, Inc. http://www.advantagecom.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 13:25:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3604D16A4BF; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7B943F3F; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([12.233.125.100]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003090420252501300g9gqve>; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:25:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA42450; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Andrew Kinney In-Reply-To: <3F573729.8917.53574D7@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:25:27 -0000 On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Andrew Kinney wrote: > > > > Our experience has been that with 4GB of RAM (or more) you > really must increase your KVA to 2GB, leaving only 2GB of UVA. > So, I would concur with what Julian said. > > thrown> ;-) > > With the lack of third party filesystem support in FreeBSD, might > you be better served by looking at a Linux system running > ReiserFS or one of the other file systems designed for such > behemoth disk systems? > > These days, I think Sun even gives away Solaris licenses with their > low end x86 servers, so that might even be an option. > > UFS is great, but there are other filesystems out there that have > already addressed such problems from their use in academic, > government, and scientific computing where gigantic filesystems > tend to be more prevalent. > UFS2 will make the filesystem.. All we need is a way to FIX such a filesystem. My brief analysis of this indicates that a 'serial' fsck should be possible. What this would do is read through the filesystem metadata, creating several 'list' files on another filesystem. These would then be duplicated and sorted on several different fields, and then recombined in a 'merge' manner, to produce lists of unallocated files, bad directory entries, duplicate allocated blocks etc. etc. This would probably be workable in a similar order of magnitute of time as a normal fsck, except 'offline' and able to handle a much larger filesystem. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 16:25:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C1216A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (12-233-57-131.client.attbi.com [12.233.57.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0730F43FB1 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h84NPLG7014176; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:25:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h84NPLEn014175; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:25:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:25:21 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Andrew Kinney Message-ID: <20030904232520.GA13977@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Kinney , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3F56352F.7050701@acm.org> <3F573729.8917.53574D7@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F573729.8917.53574D7@localhost> cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:25:26 -0000 On Thu, Sep 04, 2003, Andrew Kinney wrote: > Our experience has been that with 4GB of RAM (or more) you > really must increase your KVA to 2GB, leaving only 2GB of UVA. > So, I would concur with what Julian said. > > thrown> ;-) > > With the lack of third party filesystem support in FreeBSD, might > you be better served by looking at a Linux system running > ReiserFS or one of the other file systems designed for such > behemoth disk systems? I understand that ReiserFS fares rather poorly on large filesystems. People have complained about it overflowing the kernel heap when they try to create massive volumes. Perhaps more recent versions have addressed this, and I haven't verified this myself. > These days, I think Sun even gives away Solaris licenses with their > low end x86 servers, so that might even be an option. Umm...the Sun UFS implementation doesn't support >2TB volumes, since it uses 32-bit block numbers. > UFS is great, but there are other filesystems out there that have > already addressed such problems from their use in academic, > government, and scientific computing where gigantic filesystems > tend to be more prevalent. Yep. The most significant problem I see with UFS is that recovering from a crash or power failure is an O(data) operation, and that just doesn't scale well. Other designs (the most prevalent of which involve logging) support O(1) recovery. > >From my brief research on the subject, the FreeBSD community > has been highly resistant to supporting third party filesystems > precisely because nobody with such needs as yours has ever > contributed the code necessary to make third party filesystem > support a reality. The response is usually something like "if you > want it, go program it and submit it to a committer for review," > which is really the only reasonable response that can be made > given FreeBSD's goals. There's probably only a handful of committers who have access to the quantities of storage that would make this kind of filesystem development interesting. Meanwhile, UFS2 is perfectly adequate for most systems. I would imagine that an interested company would have to step forward and fund this sort of work. Moreover, there are licensing issues that would have to be considered to do a port of an existing filesystem... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 00:29:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB48416A4BF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F4643FBD; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfjg5.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.206.5] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19vB25-0005qK-00; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:29:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3F583B1F.313B81DE@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 00:28:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geoff Buckingham References: <3F56F3FD.C636781@mindspring.com> <20030904110155.GA35273@chuggalug.clues.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a461d86e4e29bcea899dae01341e67b08da2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:29:34 -0000 Geoff Buckingham wrote: > On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 01:12:45AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Yes. Limit the number of CG bitmaps you examine simultaneously, > > and make the operation multiple pass over the disk. This is not > > that hard a modification to fsck, and it can be done fairly > > quickly by anyone who understands the code. The code in time to > > fsck the disk will go up inversely proportionally to the amount > > of RAM it's allowed to use, which is limited to the UVA size > > minus the fsck program size itself, and the fsck buffers used for > > things like FS metadata for a given file/directory. > > Pardon my ignorance but does the number of inodes in the filesystem have a > significant impact on the memory requirement of fsck? I can't answer empirically, but extrapolating from the empirical data that I *do* have, the time is going to go up proportional to the number of blocks in use, and the number of blocks in use is going to equal the average number of blocks per file times the number of files, and given that there is one inode per file, you will bound the amount of blocks by bounding the number of inodes. This makes the answer "yes, indirectly". What passes get run really depend on how your FS is configured. By default, a background fsck will only check for blocks that are marked as used in the CG bitmaps that are not actually used; so this is a CG bitmap vs. all inodes direct and indirect block lists consistency check only. Most of the incremental or multipass techniques I've discussed on the mailing list assume either a full fsck, or that you are able to lock individual CGs, or at least ranges on the disk, if you wish to do a BG check; or that you read-only the entire disk until you are done, and maintain a list of "needs update" items (this can be very compact, since it can be run-length encoded or otherwise highly compressed). If you read the fsck manual page and understand what it means, you can get some idea of what parameters effect it in what phases: Inconsistencies checked are as follows: 1. Blocks claimed by more than one inode or the free map. Every inode needs to be scanned to see what blocks in the free map should not be in the free map. The "free map" is the set of bits in the set of all cylinder group bitmaps. Cross-checking multiple references for directories is a process of combinatorial math. You take N inodes 2 at a time and compare them. A trick that is possible, if you are willing to rebuild the CG bitmaps in core, or are willing to double the space for the set you are examining would be to examine a range, and at the same time keep a shadow. Zero the shadow, and pass the list of inodes once, setting bits in the shadow. If you go to set a bit and it's already set, *then* you go back and find out who it was who had the bit set. This is probably an OK trade-off, particularly if you maintain a list of "this-file-this-suspect-bit, and then pass the FS again (large numbers of cross-linked blocks are rare). The second of these operations is as expensive as: #inodes_used*(#inodes_used-1)*(#indirect_blocks**2-1) 2. Blocks claimed by an inode outside the range of the filesystem. What this really should say is "which are outside the range". In other words, bogus block numbers. This is a compare that can be made during a direct linear search. 3. Incorrect link counts. This is a directory entry vs. inode count. The expense of this operation depends on whether you are directory-entry-major or on your pass, and the relative number of directory entries vs. inodes. For most FS's, the number of entries is going to be ~15% higher than the number of inodes; this is because of the hard links to directories from their parents, and to parent directories from their child directories. This number could be much, much higher on an FS with a large number of hard links per file. The thing you have to worry about is tracking the number of hard links per inode, and whether you can do this all in memory (e.g. with a linear array of integers of the same type size as the link count, whose length is equal to the number of inodes available in the system), or whether you have to break the job up and pass over the directory structure multiple times. If you can't keep all the items in memory, and must make multiple passes, then it's better to be inode-major; otherwise, it's better to be directory-major. 4. Size checks: Directory size not a multiple of DIRBLKSIZ. Simple check; can be done during one of the single linear passes. Partially truncated file. Also a linear check, but somewhat harder to handle. 5. Bad inode format. Self-inconsistent contents on inodes. 6. Blocks not accounted for anywhere. Every blocks in the free map that's not there and should be, because it's not claimed by a directory or inode. The "free map" is the set of bits in the set of all cylinder group bitmaps. This is the background fsck on an FS with soft updates case. 7. Directory checks: File pointing to unallocated inode. Directory says it's there, inode say's it's not. Linear pass over the directory space, looking up each inode. Inode number out of range. Linear pass over the directory space, looking at each directory entry. Inode is out of range if it's not in the set of inodes per cylinder group times number of cylinder groups. Directories with unallocated blocks (holes). Directories are not allowed to be sparse, since they are accessed via block I/O, linearly, from first byte to last, in order to scan for matches on lookup/create/rename/iteration operations. Dot or dot-dot not the first two entries of a directory or Internal consistency check. having the wrong inode number. Inode number of child and parent do not match expected corresponding values; this is a one element lookahead hierachical traversal, so it's not quite linear; best handled by depth-first recursive descent. 8. Super Block checks: More blocks for inodes than there are in the filesystem. Bad free block map format. Total free block and/or free inode count incorrect. Trivial checks. Free block/free inode are maintained as part of the other checks, so the superblock is kept in core for the duration. > I ask as it was previously stated the smallest file on the 10TB filessytem > would be 500MB which would enable a vastley reduced number of inodes and > possibly very large block fragment and cluster sizes? The thing that matters is the number of allocated inodes, not the number of total inodes. If they aren't allocated, then they don't have blocks allocated to them, and if the don't have blocks allocated to them, then those blocks don't ned to be checked, and they don't need to be checked. Obviously, the above information is just a brief oversimplification, but it gives you a 50,000 foot view of the issues and trade-offs you could make to fit in less RAM. For more detailed information: The UNIX+ File System Check Program http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/31351.html A Fast File System for UNIX (1984) http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/mckusick84fast.html Basically, if you want to learn, you're going to have to read. 8-). -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 04:09:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD8E16A56F for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 04:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay2.jet.msk.su (relay2.jet.msk.su [62.117.74.154]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD5043FE3 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 04:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vadik@jet.msk.su) Received: from tiger ([193.124.4.1] helo=tiger.jet.msk.su) by relay2.jet.msk.su with smtp (Exim 4.02) id 19vESR-0000CT-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:08:51 +0400 Received: from kiwi.service.jet.msk.su [192.168.10.144] (postfix) by tiger.jet.msk.su with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #2) id 19vES8-0001sQ-00; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:08:32 +0400 Received: from jet.msk.su (hds-vadik.service.jet.msk.su [192.168.10.101]) by kiwi.service.jet.msk.su (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65EC1BD70 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:08:27 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <3F586E4A.1030101@jet.msk.su> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:06:50 +0400 From: vadik likholetov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030904 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070806040100070400080408" Subject: atapicam troubles me :-( X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:09:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070806040100070400080408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After ata subsystem is initialized it (CAM subsystem) writes: (probe2:ata0:0:0:0) error 22 (probe2:ata0:0:0:0) Unretryable Error (probe2:ata0:0:1:0) error 22 (probe2:ata0:0:1:0) Unretryable Error atapicam0: timeout waiting for ATAPI ready and then comes into infinite loop. Hardware is IBM ThinkPad T40 with ad0: 35329MB [71780/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA100 acd0: CDRW at ata1-master PIO4 FreeBSD skunk.jet.msk.su 5.1-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT #0: Fri Sep 5 14:11:47 MSD 2003 vadik@skunk.jet.msk.su:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/SKUNK i386 (today's -CURRENT) kernel config is inside attach WBRGs -- vadik likholetov --------------070806040100070400080408 Content-Type: text/plain; name="SKUNK" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SKUNK" machine i386 cpu I686_CPU ident SKUNK #To statically compile in device wiring instead of /boot/device.hints #hints "GENERIC.hints" #Default places to look for devices. #makeoptions DEBUG=-g #Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options SCHED_4BSD #4BSD scheduler options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options SOFTUPDATES #Enable FFS soft updates support options UFS_ACL #Support for access control lists options UFS_DIRHASH #Improve performance on big directories options MD_ROOT #MD is a potential root device options NFSCLIENT #Network Filesystem Client options NFSSERVER #Network Filesystem Server options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options CD9660 #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem (requires PSEUDOFS) options PSEUDOFS #Pseudo-filesystem framework options COMPAT_43 #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options COMPAT_FREEBSD4 #Compatible with FreeBSD4 options KTRACE #ktrace(1) support options SYSVSHM #SYSV-style shared memory options SYSVMSG #SYSV-style message queues options SYSVSEM #SYSV-style semaphores options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING #Posix P1003_1B real-time extensions options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV # install a CDEV entry in /dev device isa device pci # Floppy drives device fdc # ATA and ATAPI devices device ata device atadisk # ATA disk drives device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives device atapicam #options ATA_STATIC_ID #Static device numbering # SCSI peripherals device scbus # SCSI bus (required) device da # Direct Access (disks) device cd # CD device pass # Passthrough device (direct SCSI access) # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse device atkbdc # AT keyboard controller device atkbd # AT keyboard device psm # PS/2 mouse device vga # VGA video card driver device splash # Splash screen and screen saver support # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc options SC_PIXEL_MODE device agp # support several AGP chipsets # Floating point support - do not disable. device npx # Power management support (see NOTES for more options) device apm # Add suspend/resume support for the i8254. device pmtimer # PCCARD (PCMCIA) support # Pcmcia and cardbus bridge support # device cbb # cardbus (yenta) bridge # device pccard # PC Card (16-bit) bus # device cardbus # CardBus (32-bit) bus # Serial (COM) ports device sio # 8250, 16[45]50 based serial ports # Parallel port device ppc device ppbus # Parallel port bus (required) device lpt # Printer # PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code. # NOTE: Be sure to keep the 'device miibus' line in order to use these NICs! device miibus # MII bus support device fxp # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558) # Wireless NIC cards device wlan # 802.11 support device an # Aironet 4500/4800 802.11 wireless NICs. device awi # BayStack 660 and others device wi # WaveLAN/Intersil/Symbol 802.11 wireless NICs. #device wl # Older non 802.11 Wavelan wireless NIC. # Pseudo devices - the number indicates how many units to allocate. device random # Entropy device device loop # Network loopback device ether # Ethernet support device ppp # Kernel PPP device tun # Packet tunnel. device pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc) # The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. # Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this! device bpf # Berkeley packet filter # USB support device uhci # UHCI PCI->USB interface device ohci # OHCI PCI->USB interface device usb # USB Bus (required) #device udbp # USB Double Bulk Pipe devices device ugen # Generic device uhid # "Human Interface Devices" device ukbd # Keyboard device ucom device ulpt # Printer device umass # Disks/Mass storage - Requires scbus and da device ums # Mouse #firewire device firewire # FireWire bus code device sbp # SCSI over FireWire (Requires scbus and da) device fwe # Ethernet over FireWire (non-standard!) options VESA device radeondrm device pcm # PCCARD (PCMCIA) support nodevice cbb # cardbus (yenta) bridge #nodevice pcic # ExCA ISA and PCI bridges nodevice pccard # PC Card (16-bit) bus nodevice cardbus # CardBus (32-bit) bus device card 1 # pccard bus device pcic # PCMCIA bridge --------------070806040100070400080408-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 06:23:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0BB16A4BF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sizone.org (mortar.sizone.org [65.126.154.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AB843FF7; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgilbert@daveg.ca) Received: by sizone.org (Postfix, from userid 66) id 37AD32FFC7; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by canoe.velocet.net (Postfix, from userid 101) id 08B7D1D1C4A; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:23:06 -0400 (EDT) From: David Gilbert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16216.36410.889440.499438@canoe.velocet.net> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:23:06 -0400 To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: <64330.1062619621@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi> <64330.1062619621@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:23:10 -0000 >>>>> "Poul-Henning" == Poul-Henning Kamp writes: Poul-Henning> In message <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi>, Petri Helenius Poul-Henning> writes: >> fsck problem should be gone with less inodes and less blocks since >> if I read the code correctly, memory is consumed according to used >> inodes and blocks so having like 20000 inodes and 64k blocks should >> allow you to build 5-20T filesystem and actually fsck them. Poul-Henning> I am not sure I would advocate 64k blocks yet. Poul-Henning> I tend to stick with 32k block, 4k fragment myself. Poul-Henning> This is a problem which is in the cross-hairs for 6.x That reminds me... has anyone thought of designing the system to have more than 8 frags per block? Increasingly, for large file performance, we're pushing up the block size dramatically. This is with the assumption that large disks will contain large files. ... but I havn't seem that, myself. Large arrays that we run tend to have multiple system images (for diskless or semi-diskless operation) and many more thousands of users ... all with their usual complement of small files. It strikes me that driving the block size up (as far as 1M) and having a 256 (or so) fragments might become appropriate. We probably also need to address disks with larger block sizes soon, but that's another issue alltogether. Dave. -- ============================================================================ |David Gilbert, Independent Contractor. | Two things can only be | |Mail: dave@daveg.ca | equal if and only if they | |http://daveg.ca | are precisely opposite. | =========================================================GLO================ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 06:40:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A862016A4BF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F64343FF9; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:40:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h85DeCTI010307; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:40:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: David Gilbert From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:23:06 EDT." <16216.36410.889440.499438@canoe.velocet.net> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:40:12 +0200 Message-ID: <10306.1062769212@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:40:30 -0000 In message <16216.36410.889440.499438@canoe.velocet.net>, David Gilbert writes: >That reminds me... has anyone thought of designing the system to have >more than 8 frags per block? Increasingly, for large file >performance, we're pushing up the block size dramatically. This is >with the assumption that large disks will contain large files. > >It strikes me that driving the block size up (as far as 1M) and having >a 256 (or so) fragments might become appropriate. Sounds like a _great_ project for somebody :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 07:33:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B5516A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oniws.ca (oniws.ca [67.69.49.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD49A43FF2 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:33:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Received: from xwave.com ([192.168.0.126]) by oniws.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h85EX1YZ050462 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:33:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Message-ID: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:32:52 -0400 From: Dwayne MacKinnon Organization: xwave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:33:03 -0000 Hi, I recently took one of our machines off the main network and set up a crossover cable between it and my personal box. I was looking to scp some large files over and I didn't want to swamp the network. (I use scp from force of habit, even though ftp would probably be quicker in this case.) Long story short, I discovered that if there was a nameserver listed in resolv.conf on the isolated box, sshd would always try to do a reverse address mapping. As you'd expect, this hangs the login for a while. This lookup occurs despite the fact that I 1) explicitly stated the no-reverse-mapping options in the sshd_conf, 2) invoked sshd with the -u0 flag and 3) put both the machines on this tiny private network into /etc/hosts. Anyone else see this type of thing before? I did some research on the lists but all I ever saw was a problem with reading resolv.conf. That's not the case here, because it's definitely picking up the nameserver from that file. Thanks, DMK From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 08:46:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F217016A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-107-253.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.107.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1808343FB1 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8E166B04; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 865A7A5B; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:46:46 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Dwayne MacKinnon Message-ID: <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:46:48 -0000 --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 10:32:52AM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > Anyone else see this type of thing before? I did some research on the=20 > lists but all I ever saw was a problem with reading resolv.conf. That's= =20 > not the case here, because it's definitely picking up the nameserver=20 > from that file. The fact that sshd requires reverse IP resolution is well-known behaviour. It's probably the most common FAQ about sshd ("Why is my login taking 60 seconds to present the password prompt?"). Kris --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/WK/mWry0BWjoQKURAlc7AKDjrRH4Ha/Rq7Pv1vpT5z7NEb2LRQCg4oum vzA6RE94P5aSrnyNyNVOOcs= =1APm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 08:56:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7570F16A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C3043F3F for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EF1592ED477; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:56:09 -0700 From: Paul Saab To: Andrew Kinney , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030905155609.GA35141@elvis.mu.org> References: <3F56352F.7050701@acm.org> <3F573729.8917.53574D7@localhost> <20030904232520.GA13977@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030904232520.GA13977@HAL9000.homeunix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System (fsck????) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:56:10 -0000 David Schultz (das@FreeBSD.ORG) wrote: > > >From my brief research on the subject, the FreeBSD community > > has been highly resistant to supporting third party filesystems > > precisely because nobody with such needs as yours has ever > > contributed the code necessary to make third party filesystem > > support a reality. The response is usually something like "if you > > want it, go program it and submit it to a committer for review," > > which is really the only reasonable response that can be made > > given FreeBSD's goals. > > There's probably only a handful of committers who have access to > the quantities of storage that would make this kind of filesystem > development interesting. Meanwhile, UFS2 is perfectly adequate > for most systems. I would imagine that an interested company > would have to step forward and fund this sort of work. Moreover, > there are licensing issues that would have to be considered to do > a port of an existing filesystem... If people are wanting to work on filesystems > 2TB, committers who want access to tank.freebsd.org can request it. The machine has 3TB of disk space available. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 09:04:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C1316A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oniws.ca (oniws.ca [67.69.49.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD19643FB1 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:04:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Received: from xwave.com ([192.168.0.126]) by oniws.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h85G490w000323; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Message-ID: <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:04:04 -0400 From: Dwayne MacKinnon Organization: xwave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> In-Reply-To: <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:04:11 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 10:32:52AM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > > >>Anyone else see this type of thing before? I did some research on the >>lists but all I ever saw was a problem with reading resolv.conf. That's >>not the case here, because it's definitely picking up the nameserver >>from that file. > > > The fact that sshd requires reverse IP resolution is well-known > behaviour. It's probably the most common FAQ about sshd ("Why is my > login taking 60 seconds to present the password prompt?"). > > Kris That much I know. I was just wondering why the daemon is trying DNS lookup when the IP in question is listed in /etc/hosts. I thought listings in /etc/hosts would supercede the need for a DNS lookup. Of course, I could be wrong... it wouldn't be the first time. :-) Cheers, DMK From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 09:10:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8237E16A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07C244015 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from pun.isi.edu (pun.isi.edu [128.9.160.150]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h85GAYn28906; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pun.isi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h85GAYY2023713; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:10:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@pun.isi.edu) Received: (from faber@localhost) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h85GAUkq023712; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:10:30 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: Dwayne MacKinnon Message-ID: <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wxDdMuZNg1r63Hyj" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:10:44 -0000 --wxDdMuZNg1r63Hyj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 12:04:04PM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > That much I know. I was just wondering why the daemon is trying DNS > lookup when the IP in question is listed in /etc/hosts. I thought > listings in /etc/hosts would supercede the need for a DNS lookup. Of > course, I could be wrong... it wouldn't be the first time. :-) If you haven't you need to check out /etc/host.conf , the file that configures the hostname lookup order (at least on 4.8). man 5 host.conf will tell you all about it. If you have already configured this, you might want to look again. (man -k resolver should help you find whatever it is on 5.x - I suspect it's nsswitch.) --wxDdMuZNg1r63Hyj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/WLV2aUz3f+Zf+XsRAgt8AKCJPftw+or7SF8NEfzBT9CoYT24gQCbB46/ J2FOnfgMLaoxwnweAFNdlng= =eoV9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wxDdMuZNg1r63Hyj-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 09:29:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D9016A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oniws.ca (oniws.ca [67.69.49.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039A443FD7 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Received: from xwave.com ([192.168.0.126]) by oniws.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h85GTE0w000478; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:29:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Message-ID: <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:29:10 -0400 From: Dwayne MacKinnon Organization: xwave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Faber References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:29:17 -0000 Ted Faber wrote: > On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 12:04:04PM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > >>That much I know. I was just wondering why the daemon is trying DNS >>lookup when the IP in question is listed in /etc/hosts. I thought >>listings in /etc/hosts would supercede the need for a DNS lookup. Of >>course, I could be wrong... it wouldn't be the first time. :-) > > > If you haven't you need to check out /etc/host.conf , the file that > configures the hostname lookup order (at least on 4.8). > man 5 host.conf will tell you all about it. If you have already > configured this, you might want to look again. (man -k resolver should > help you find whatever it is on 5.x - I suspect it's nsswitch.) My host.conf is a FreeBSD 4.8 default one: it lists hosts, then bind. That's why I don't understand why it's doing DNS... there's a listing in hosts, and according to host.conf the hosts listing should be found first. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 09:57:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD8E16A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C2F443F93 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from pun.isi.edu (pun.isi.edu [128.9.160.150]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h85Gv6n28032; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pun.isi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h85Gv6Y2024415; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@pun.isi.edu) Received: (from faber@localhost) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h85Gv6Cs024414; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:57:06 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: Dwayne MacKinnon Message-ID: <20030905165706.GA24285@pun.isi.edu> References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:57:10 -0000 --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 12:29:10PM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > Ted Faber wrote: > >On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 12:04:04PM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > >>That much I know. I was just wondering why the daemon is trying DNS > >>lookup when the IP in question is listed in /etc/hosts. > > > >If you haven't you need to check out /etc/host.conf > > My host.conf is a FreeBSD 4.8 default one: it lists hosts, then bind. > That's why I don't understand why it's doing DNS... there's a listing in > hosts, and according to host.conf the hosts listing should be found first. I'll bet that the problem is with the format of your /etc/hosts . Check out the man page (man 5 hosts) and plink with it until it does what you want. Sometimes the lookups through /etc/hosts are counterintuitive - for example I've had problems related to the order of names and aliases. -- Ted Faber Info: http://www.isi.edu/~faber PGP: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkeys.asc Unexpected attachment on this mail? See http://www.isi.edu/~faber/FAQ.html#SIG --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/WMBiaUz3f+Zf+XsRAgpFAKCYqT9PeZggPYEFaAlsNieYgxYrDQCfUWAZ 7uMH2zN5ewxIt8QwQvYYmbg= =j40H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 10:11:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B17616A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arthur.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73A943FE3 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@arthur.nitro.dk) Received: by arthur.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7DD0910BF8C; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:11:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:11:27 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Dwayne MacKinnon Message-ID: <20030905171125.GA1356@FreeBSD.org> References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Ted Faber cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:11:29 -0000 --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003.09.05 12:29:10 -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > Ted Faber wrote: > >On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 12:04:04PM -0400, Dwayne MacKinnon wrote: > > > >>That much I know. I was just wondering why the daemon is trying DNS=20 > >>lookup when the IP in question is listed in /etc/hosts. I thought=20 > >>listings in /etc/hosts would supercede the need for a DNS lookup. Of=20 > >>course, I could be wrong... it wouldn't be the first time. :-) > > > > > >If you haven't you need to check out /etc/host.conf , the file that > >configures the hostname lookup order (at least on 4.8). =20 > >man 5 host.conf will tell you all about it. If you have already > >configured this, you might want to look again. (man -k resolver should > >help you find whatever it is on 5.x - I suspect it's nsswitch.) >=20 > My host.conf is a FreeBSD 4.8 default one: it lists hosts, then bind.=20 > That's why I don't understand why it's doing DNS... there's a listing in= =20 > hosts, and according to host.conf the hosts listing should be found first. Do you use Privilege Separation? That can give interesting results with DNS due to chroot into /var/empty... see the mailing lists archives. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen FreeBSD Documentation Team --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/WMO9h9pcDSc1mlERApELAJ9//3JOgPpC7n5qNVx/srvJOIthxgCgsrQ9 W7M3K8IW5k0ZiJvctzbsONA= =SdEC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 11:05:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBF916A4BF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oniws.ca (oniws.ca [67.69.49.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF2843FB1; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Received: from xwave.com ([192.168.0.126]) by oniws.ca (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h85I550w001102; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:05:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com) Message-ID: <3F58D04B.6050805@xwave.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:04:59 -0400 From: Dwayne MacKinnon Organization: xwave User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Simon L. Nielsen" References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> <20030905171125.GA1356@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20030905171125.GA1356@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: Ted Faber cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dwayne.MacKinnon@xwave.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:05:11 -0000 Simon L. Nielsen wrote: > Do you use Privilege Separation? That can give interesting results with > DNS due to chroot into /var/empty... see the mailing lists archives. Argh. This frustrates me. I did some searching on various mailing lists before, and when they talked about switching into /var/empty they were talking about the box abruptly attempting to make DNS lookups on the localhost. That wasn't what I was seeing, so I thought it was something different. But I went looking again, and this time found my exact situation on freebsd,stable. And yes, it's the privilege separation / chroot issue. My apologies for wasting time and bandwidth. DMK From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 12:45:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C614E16A4C0; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC0B43F75; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:45:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from A.J.Caines@halplant.com) Received: from mail.halplant.com ([68.98.167.210]) by lakemtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP id <20030905194513.RTDO10812.lakemtao03.cox.net@mail.halplant.com>; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:45:13 -0400 Received: by mail.halplant.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id: 45:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:45:11 -0400 From: Andrew J Caines To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030905194511.GA4910@hal9000.halplant.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20030902224136.GA98381@dan.emsphone.com> <20030903110615.GA25233@chuggalug.clues.com> <20030903132303.GA53246@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030903132303.GA53246@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> Organization: H.A.L. Plant X-PGP-Fingerprint: C59A 2F74 1139 9432 B457 0B61 DDF2 AA61 67C3 18A1 X-Powered-by: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE X-URL: http://halplant.com:88/ X-Yahoo-Profile: AJ_Z0 Importance: Normal User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andrew J Caines List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:45:14 -0000 [Warning: semi-useless information ahead] On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 11:06:15AM +0000, Geoff Buckingham wrote: > However I just read the newfs man page and am intrigued to know what effect > the -g and -h options have.... Somewhere in -STABLE between 4.8-RELEASE and a month or so ago I recreated a filesystem [~50 GB] on a single disk and used these two options [-g (~8 MB) -h ~8, IIRC] and after mounting any writes would cause a panic. Other options were -U -m 1%, IIRC. At the time I didn't try to debug and just dropped those two options and made a new filesystem, then all was well. I think this was about a month or two ago. Sorry for the extreme vagueness, but I thought it better to mention it. -Andrew- -- _______________________________________________________________________ | -Andrew J. Caines- Unix Systems Engineer A.J.Caines@halplant.com | | "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary | | safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 15:03:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9627C16A4BF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (12-233-57-131.client.attbi.com [12.233.57.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804BD44013; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h85M3dG7020167; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h85M3bxF020166; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:03:37 -0700 From: David Schultz To: David Gilbert Message-ID: <20030905220337.GA20142@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: David Gilbert , Poul-Henning Kamp , Petri Helenius , Max Clark , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, Dan Nelson , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi> <64330.1062619621@critter.freebsd.dk> <16216.36410.889440.499438@canoe.velocet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16216.36410.889440.499438@canoe.velocet.net> cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:03:49 -0000 On Fri, Sep 05, 2003, David Gilbert wrote: > >>>>> "Poul-Henning" == Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > Poul-Henning> In message <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi>, Petri Helenius > Poul-Henning> writes: > >> fsck problem should be gone with less inodes and less blocks since > >> if I read the code correctly, memory is consumed according to used > >> inodes and blocks so having like 20000 inodes and 64k blocks should > >> allow you to build 5-20T filesystem and actually fsck them. > > Poul-Henning> I am not sure I would advocate 64k blocks yet. > > Poul-Henning> I tend to stick with 32k block, 4k fragment myself. > > Poul-Henning> This is a problem which is in the cross-hairs for 6.x > > That reminds me... has anyone thought of designing the system to have > more than 8 frags per block? Increasingly, for large file > performance, we're pushing up the block size dramatically. This is > with the assumption that large disks will contain large files. > > ... but I havn't seem that, myself. Large arrays that we run tend to > have multiple system images (for diskless or semi-diskless operation) > and many more thousands of users ... all with their usual complement > of small files. > > It strikes me that driving the block size up (as far as 1M) and having > a 256 (or so) fragments might become appropriate. > > We probably also need to address disks with larger block sizes soon, > but that's another issue alltogether. To that end, UFS2 is supposed to be able to support ``jumbo blocks''. The code for that isn't in the tree, but I presume Kirk is working on it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 15:19:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A7EA16A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-86.apple.com [17.250.248.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B2B43FE3 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from macman20001@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h85MJSKx008614 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.9] (66-188-223-171.roc.mn.charter.com [66.188.223.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/8.12.9/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h85MJQwr018423 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: macman20001@mail.mac.com Message-Id: Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:20:07 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: MacMan20001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: Bootable CD BSD system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:19:29 -0000 Hello. I'm trying to make a BSD system from a bootable CD. I don't need anything fancy, just a shell and a few basic commands. I have the structure of the CD in line. My problem is with the boot image. I've read the FAQ on bootable CDs with mkisofs, and I did what it said: use the format mkisofs -U -R -b /boot/image/here -o /cd/image/here /tree/to/copy I set the boot image to /boot/cdboo, making a guess. It said something like "boot image size not allowed." Then, I remembered the manual page where it said "boot images must be the size of a 1200, 1440, or 2800 KB floppy". Unfortunately, none of the files in /boot were that size. So, I tried a generic boot image with this command. mkisofs -U -R -G /boot/cdboot -o /home/image.iso /home/discfolder It accepted it, and made image.iso without error. I burned it onto the CD, rebooted, and it went straight for the hard disk. I double checked my BIOS. I had put CD above the hard disk before when I installed, and sure enough, it never changed. I popped the install CD in and rebooted, and it accepted that as the boot disk. Do I have the wrong idea about what a boot image is? or did I miss something? I am new at this... Any help would be nice. -- Signed, Dan Harrison From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 16:26:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E4916A4C0 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE3943FE5 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Received: from acm.org ([66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h85NQ6kX019710; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:26:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@acm.org) Message-ID: <3F591B8D.5050504@acm.org> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:26:05 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MacMan20001 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bootable CD BSD system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: kientzle@acm.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 23:26:11 -0000 MacMan20001 wrote: > Hello. > > I'm trying to make a BSD system from a bootable CD. I don't need > anything fancy, just a shell and a few basic commands. I have the > structure of the CD in line. My problem is with the boot image. > > I've read the FAQ on bootable CDs with mkisofs, and I did what it said: > use the format > > mkisofs -U -R -b /boot/image/here -o /cd/image/here /tree/to/copy > > I set the boot image to /boot/cdboo, making a guess. It said something > like "boot image size not allowed." Then, I remembered the manual page > where it said "boot images must be the size of a 1200, 1440, or 2800 KB > floppy". Unfortunately, none of the files in /boot were that size. > > So, I tried a generic boot image with this command. > > mkisofs -U -R -G /boot/cdboot -o /home/image.iso /home/discfolder > > It accepted it, and made image.iso without error. I burned it onto the > CD, rebooted, and it went straight for the hard disk. > > I double checked my BIOS. I had put CD above the hard disk before when I > installed, and sure enough, it never changed. I popped the install CD in > and rebooted, and it accepted that as the boot disk. > > Do I have the wrong idea about what a boot image is? or did I miss > something? I am new at this... > > Any help would be nice. The old "El Torito" CD booting loaded a floppy disk image and then booted that. With this scheme, you first create a bootable floppy, then place an image of that floppy in a file and use -b with that file. This is ugly. You would rather use -b with --no-emul-boot. The --no-emul-boot flags the boot image as a raw executable rather than a floppy image. The /boot/cdboot loader is specifically designed for this use. Good luck, Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 16:43:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39DA16A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3591743FEC for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from richardcoleman@mindspring.com) Received: from c-24-98-233-138.atl.client2.attbi.com ([24.98.233.138] helo=mindspring.com) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19vQF1-0003Ra-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:43:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3F591FB9.8040400@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:43:53 -0400 From: Richard Coleman Organization: Critical Magic, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> <20030905165706.GA24285@pun.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <20030905165706.GA24285@pun.isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 1ee258965991efcb0865379cdb43356e5e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef7418c1967e425098b96c9b0faedb5061350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: richardcoleman@mindspring.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 23:43:49 -0000 Ted Faber wrote: > I'll bet that the problem is with the format of your /etc/hosts . Check > out the man page (man 5 hosts) and plink with it until it does what you > want. Sometimes the lookups through /etc/hosts are counterintuitive - > for example I've had problems related to the order of names and aliases. > I figured that nsswitch.conf would deprecate host.conf. Is this not true? Richard Coleman richardcoleman@mindspring.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 17:41:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B08516A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5942643FE1 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from pun.isi.edu (pun.isi.edu [128.9.160.150]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h860fDn20595; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pun.isi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h860fDY2027630; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@pun.isi.edu) Received: (from faber@localhost) by pun.isi.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h860fCGv027629; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:41:12 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: Richard Coleman Message-ID: <20030906004112.GD27223@pun.isi.edu> References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <3F58B3F4.3020502@xwave.com> <20030905161030.GC22913@pun.isi.edu> <3F58B9D6.7040102@xwave.com> <20030905165706.GA24285@pun.isi.edu> <3F591FB9.8040400@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="P+33d92oIH25kiaB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F591FB9.8040400@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:41:16 -0000 --P+33d92oIH25kiaB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 07:43:53PM -0400, Richard Coleman wrote: > I figured that nsswitch.conf would deprecate host.conf. Is this not true? On 5.x I think you're right. On 4.x it still is host.conf. (Or there is no nsswicth.conf installed by default and no manual pages - I haven't dug hard.) I think I said that in an earlier message in the thread. --P+33d92oIH25kiaB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/WS0oaUz3f+Zf+XsRAkNyAKCjBY1uh41xKYrXXle6XrCm+wTxIgCfRehF YOQRyBHQyH7rU5phGzXnbcM= =Pv9H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --P+33d92oIH25kiaB-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 19:32:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A81816A4BF for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-85.apple.com [17.250.248.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D8043F3F for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:32:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from macman20001@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h862WS0O007109 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.9] (66-188-223-171.roc.mn.charter.com [66.188.223.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/8.12.9/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id h862WQwr010392 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: macman20001@mail.mac.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3F591B8D.5050504@acm.org> References: <3F591B8D.5050504@acm.org> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:33:07 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: MacMan20001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: Re: Bootable CD BSD system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:32:29 -0000 >You would rather use -b with --no-emul-boot. The --no-emul-boot >flags the boot image as a raw executable rather than a floppy image. >The /boot/cdboot loader is specifically designed for this use. Alright, I got a boot. It complained about the absence of a loader, but that's expected from a blank CD. I'll post if I have any more trouble. Thanks a lot, Tim. -- Signed, Dan Harrison From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 21:24:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665CA16A4E2; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652D344013; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:24:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@dougbarton.net) Received: from master.dougb.net (12-234-22-23.client.attbi.com[12.234.22.23](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003090604235901100roic5e>; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 04:23:59 +0000 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030905212243.Y10746@znfgre.qbhto.arg> Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Important changes to the .org tld today. (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 04:24:01 -0000 FYI, Doug ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 06:03:15 -0700 From: Rodney Joffe Organization: UltraDNS Corp Subject: Important changes to the .org tld today. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 During the root zone (.) update later today, specifically with root zone serial number 2003090501, the entries for .org will me modified. The current zone entry contains the following authoritative nameservers for the .org tld: org. 2D IN NS A7.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS L7.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS G7.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS F7.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS M5.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS TLD1.ULTRADNS.NET. org. 2D IN NS TLD2.ULTRADNS.NET. org. 2D IN NS J5.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS I5.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS C5.NSTLD.COM. org. 2D IN NS E5.NSTLD.COM. Effective with the 2003090501 load, the entry will reflect the removal of the Verisign NSTLD.COM nameservers. The zone entry will therefore contain the following only: org. 2D IN NS TLD1.ULTRADNS.NET. org. 2D IN NS TLD2.ULTRADNS.NET. If you have the 9 ??.NSTLD.COM nameservers cached or hard coded in any way, you may wish to flush your cache or modify your nameservers in the near future to avoid any inconsistent or stale data, and you may want to make your system administrators, NOCs and customer support groups aware of the changes. The .org zone file will continue to be pushed to the Verisign nameservers for a short period of time. However due to the fact that the UltraDNS nameservers publish and propagate zone changes globally within 5 minutes, rather than the twice daily update schedule of the Verisign nameservers, answers from the NSTLD.COM nameservers may be out of date and inconsistent with the actual SOA for up to 24 hours after a change is accepted by the Public Interest Registry (PIR.org). Any questions or concerns regarding this change should be directed to the PIR (http://www.pir.org). Sincerely, Rodney Joffe CTO and Chairman UltraDNS Corp. http://www.ultradns.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.2 iQA/AwUBP1iJJEa3pZtqJ3OwEQJvwACdHkKdAW3TqDSpOJVoguhFAx0YebwAnAw9 c6fW3PeXcgvjwhvLIPaxRVEW =+m9c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 5 22:04:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D780516A4BF; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B3243F85; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:04:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38ldthf.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.246.47] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19vVFR-0002RD-00; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3F596AAB.843C86F5@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:03:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Gilbert References: <3F5647F3.5080502@he.iki.fi> <16216.36410.889440.499438@canoe.velocet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4e0ec236727729bd695c827fea927f3d7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Petri Helenius cc: Max Clark cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Dan Nelson cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 20TB Storage System X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 05:04:57 -0000 David Gilbert wrote: > >>>>> "Poul-Henning" == Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > Poul-Henning> I am not sure I would advocate 64k blocks yet. > Poul-Henning> I tend to stick with 32k block, 4k fragment myself. > > That reminds me... has anyone thought of designing the system to have > more than 8 frags per block? Increasingly, for large file > performance, we're pushing up the block size dramatically. This is > with the assumption that large disks will contain large files. My assumptions on the previous two statements by Poul are: 1) You cannot trust that a short will be treated as an unsigned 16 bit value in all cases, so values that are between 32768 and 65535 may be treated incorrectly. 2) A fully populate block bitmap byte, which means a divide by 8, is necessary to avoid potential division errors. In other words, he's afraid that the sign bit and/or the block size bitmap used by frags may be treated incorrectly. I have to agree with both those observations. A number of people have, historically, reported issues with a divisor other than 8, and the worry about the sign bit is common sense, given the many historical issues faced by other OS's when it comes to 64K block sizes. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 6 13:16:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FED916A4BF for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 894D543FB1 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:16:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h86KGHVI042417 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:16:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h86KGHgJ042416; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200309062016.h86KGHgJ042416@apollo.backplane.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Possible memory overrun and/or MALLOC api violation in getsockaddr() X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:16:18 -0000 From what I can tell getsockaddr() (kern/uipc_syscalls.c) is called with a user-supplied length as its argument. It checks for len > SOCK_MAXADDRLEN, but it does not check to see if the length is too small and it may MALLOC() a structure, 'sa', which is too small for the assignment or assignments it then proceeds to do. e.g. 'sa->sa_len = len'. This could potentially assign a field that is beyond the malloc'd region. In particular, if you create a UNIX domain socket and bind(...) a 0-length structure, the malloc function will be called with a length of 0 and sa->sa_len will be assigned to the resulting memory. Now, due to the the way the allocator works there might be a minimum allocation anyway (there is in the old malloc, but I am not sure about the slab allocator), so this may or may not be a security issue, but it definitely looks like a rather serious API violation. If I understand sockaddr's properly, the minimum size is going to be offsetof(struct sockaddr, sa_data[0]), which is 2 bytes. A check for this minimum should probably be added to getsockaddr(). -Matt Matthew Dillon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 6 14:37:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFEA16A4BF for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hysteria.spc.org (hysteria.spc.org [195.206.69.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 82FEA43F3F for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bms@hysteria.spc.org) Received: (qmail 9632 invoked by uid 5013); 6 Sep 2003 21:34:28 -0000 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:34:28 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20030906213428.GF29217@spc.org> Mail-Followup-To: Bruce M Simpson , Kris Kennaway , Dwayne MacKinnon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: SPC cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 21:37:52 -0000 On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 08:46:46AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Anyone else see this type of thing before? I did some research on the > > lists but all I ever saw was a problem with reading resolv.conf. That's > > not the case here, because it's definitely picking up the nameserver > > from that file. > > The fact that sshd requires reverse IP resolution is well-known > behaviour. It's probably the most common FAQ about sshd ("Why is my > login taking 60 seconds to present the password prompt?"). But what about: VerifyReverseMapping Specifies whether sshd should try to verify the remote host name and check that the resolved host name for the remote IP address maps back to the very same IP address. The default is ``no''. ? I usually configure my sshd with -u0 to prevent hostnames being truncated in wtmp/lastlog, for better audit trail. BMS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 6 18:55:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9352C16A4BF for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [129.250.170.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A6144001 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (200-140-005-095.bsace7025.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.140.5.95]) by newsguy.com (8.9.1p2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01843; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F5A8FDB.3050507@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:54:35 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce M Simpson References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030906213428.GF29217@spc.org> In-Reply-To: <20030906213428.GF29217@spc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 01:55:11 -0000 Bruce M Simpson wrote: > On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 08:46:46AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >>>Anyone else see this type of thing before? I did some research on the >>>lists but all I ever saw was a problem with reading resolv.conf. That's >>>not the case here, because it's definitely picking up the nameserver >>>from that file. >> >>The fact that sshd requires reverse IP resolution is well-known >>behaviour. It's probably the most common FAQ about sshd ("Why is my >>login taking 60 seconds to present the password prompt?"). > > > But what about: > > VerifyReverseMapping > Specifies whether sshd should try to verify the remote host name > and check that the resolved host name for the remote IP address > maps back to the very same IP address. The default is ``no''. > > ? AFAIK, that means the reverse mapping result will not be held against you. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@west.side.of.bsdconspiracy.net Steele: "Aha! We've finally got you talking jargon too!" Stallman: "What did he say?" Steele: "Bob just used "canonical" in the canonical way." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 6 18:58:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB4316A4BF for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hysteria.spc.org (hysteria.spc.org [195.206.69.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B241E43FBD for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bms@hysteria.spc.org) Received: (qmail 12798 invoked by uid 5013); 7 Sep 2003 01:55:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 02:55:10 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-ID: <20030907015510.GG29217@spc.org> Mail-Followup-To: Bruce M Simpson , "Daniel C. Sobral" , Kris Kennaway , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3F589E94.1080508@xwave.com> <20030905154646.GA59881@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030906213428.GF29217@spc.org> <3F5A8FDB.3050507@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F5A8FDB.3050507@newsguy.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: SPC cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: PUzzling sshd behaviour X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 01:58:37 -0000 On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 10:54:35PM -0300, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Bruce M Simpson wrote: > >On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 08:46:46AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >>The fact that sshd requires reverse IP resolution is well-known > >>behaviour. It's probably the most common FAQ about sshd ("Why is my > >>login taking 60 seconds to present the password prompt?"). > > > >But what about: > > VerifyReverseMapping > > Specifies whether sshd should try to verify the remote host > > name > > and check that the resolved host name for the remote IP > > address > > maps back to the very same IP address. The default is ``no''. > > AFAIK, that means the reverse mapping result will not be held against > you. :-) This sounds like a bug. Does anyone else agree? BMS