From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 08:50:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 336A016A4B3; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postfix4-1.free.fr (postfix4-1.free.fr [213.228.0.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D911243F75; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:49:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from devnull@kma.eu.org) Received: from kma.eu.org (bobillot-3-82-67-146-167.fbx.proxad.net [82.67.146.167]) by postfix4-1.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AECD5240B; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:49:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F92B29E.7090604@kma.eu.org> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:49:50 +0200 From: Shill User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce M Simpson References: <3F7AA0D8.1080801@kma.eu.org> <20031018170010.GG7662@saboteur.dek.spc.org> In-Reply-To: <20031018170010.GG7662@saboteur.dek.spc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: koshy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is PCE not set in CR4? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:50:12 -0000 >> I have read the perfmon documentation and source code. For several >> reasons, I do not think it is totally adequate in my situation. >> >> It was designed in 1996 with the Pentium Pro in mind, which, >> apparently, only has two performance counters: >> >> #define NPMC 2 >> if (pmc < 0 || pmc >= NPMC) return EINVAL; >> >> Assume I get perfmon to work with my K7's 4 performance-monitoring >> counters. Since PCE is not set, I am not allowed to call RDPMC from >> ring 3. I have to make a system call, just to read the counters. > > I've since read over perfmon and some notes on using performance monitoring > counters in "The Indispensable PC Hardware Book". > > It looks to me as though perfmon *will* do what you want. There isn't > really any need to reinvent the wheel. If you want to configure *all* your > PMCs to read particular events, then the best way to do this is as follows: > > Conditionalise the PMC allocation code in perfmon.c to use a boot-time > tunable, or an int, which is set by the identcpu.c code. Allocate the PMC > structures in perfmon.c at boot-time (or preferably module init time). > > Then, add the necessary code to perfmon_init() and a new writectlXX() > function pertaining to the particular Athlon you're using. > >> I will pay in terms of computation overhead to process a system >> call, instead of a single instruction. But more importantly, it will >> wreck the cache, and possibly the TLB. >> >> There is no point in monitoring an event if the monitoring tools >> disturb the environment too much. > > Ignore the patch I sent previously. perfmon is i386 specific anyway, so > hacking perfmon.c is acceptable. What I would suggest instead is to add > two new ioctls to perfmon to do this. > > PMIOGPCE get pce bit value on current CPU > PMIOSPCE set pce bit value on current CPU (if superuser) > > This will allow you to set PMC enable on and off for the uniprocessor > case OK, and let you use RDPMC from ring 3. This is not valid for the > SMP case, however. > > Unless you can achieve CPU binding (not affinity) with one of the current > scheduler(s) then reading the counters is likely to yield useless results > if your code spins across CPUs in an SMP system. > > An IPI of some kind will be necessary if you want to tell all processors > to turn on their PCE bit at the same time. peter@freebsd.org is a good > guy to ask about this sort of thing. > > I'd like to know how you're progressing with this. Hello Bruce, I must confess that I am somewhat intimidated by the prospect of hacking the FreeBSD kernel, as I've never done it. There are several things inside perfmon.c which I do not quite understand. Right now, I went the "quick and dirty" route (shame on me). I wrote a tiny kernel module which sets PCE in CR4, and writes 4 values to my Athlon's 4 event select registers. I would be happy to take this opportunity to contribute to FreeBSD, and code something nice which makes it into the kernel. I might just need a little help along the way. Can I send my questions to the list? Terry Lambert said: PCE counters are a scarce resource, and the kernel needs to run interference on their allocation and deallocation by user space applications, to avoid collisions between applications; this is the same reason we have AGP and sound card device drivers in the kernel. It seems to me that every application should get its own set of performance-monitoring counters and event select registers, the same way each application gets its own set of general-purpose registers. Each application can then monitor itself, without any interference from other applications. In other words, and in my opinion, the kernel should save and restore PMCs and event select registers for each application. At work, I use Linux/IA-64 and Stephane Eranian's excellent performance monitor framework. I believe he patched the Linux kernel to save and restore the performance registers. http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/linux/perfmon/perfmon.php4 This also makes the SMP situation easier: even if a process runs on different CPUs, since the performance registers are restored, the numbers do make sense. Now, let me remind you all that I don't have any experience with kernel hacking, so maybe I am overlooking some serious hurdles? Random question: perfmon makes its functions available through ioctl requests. Could I change that to system calls? Perhaps there are some serious drawbacks? [ Please note that the kma.eu.org domain is a spam honeypot. Nobody reads the mail sent to it. I have subscribed to the list. ] Shill From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 09:43:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE4316A4B3; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sweeper.openet-telecom.com (mail.openet-telecom.com [62.17.151.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF3043FA3; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.edwards@openet-telecom.com) Received: from mail.openet-telecom.com (unverified) by sweeper.openet-telecom.com ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:43:27 +0100 Received: from openet-telecom.com (10.0.1.153) by mail.openet-telecom.com (NPlex 6.5.027) (authenticated as peter.edwards@openet-telecom.com) id 3F6FE91700015F73; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:39:17 +0100 Message-ID: <3F92BF18.9000604@openet-telecom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:43:04 +0100 From: Peter Edwards User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling@FreeBSD.ORG, =?us-ascii@FreeBSD.ORG:iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <20031016060632.GA68007@VARK.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20031016060632.GA68007@VARK.homeunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: David Schultz cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: real vs. avail memory X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: pmedwards@eircom.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:43:23 -0000 David Schultz wrote: >On Sun, Oct 12, 2003, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > > >>I've gotten used to the fact that there is a small discrepancy between >>real and available memory, but I was surprised to see the following in >>dmesg on a new P4 system: >> >>real memory = 1073676288 (1023 MB) >>avail memory = 1037799424 (989 MB) >> >>That's a full 40 MB difference... where does that memory go? is it >>used for page maps or something like that? >> >> > >Unless this is related to Peter's recent machdep.c changes, the >difference is probably just random chunks of memory that the BIOS >decided to use. This could include a shadow copy of the BIOS, the >BIOS data segment, maybe a frame buffer for a cheap integrated >video card, etc. If you do a verbose boot, you'll get a list of >the chunks of memory that are taken according to the BIOS. > > > This piqued my interest, so I studied it a bit. (My 512MB machine was showing a 24MB difference) Most of the memory is swallowed by two functions called from vm_mem_init(): The kernel allocates a vm_page structure for every page of available memory early on. These are 72 bytes in size. (see vm_page_startup() in vm_page.c) Later, the pmap code preallocates a pv_entry structure for each vm_page (I assume it can probably allocate more later, but will need at least this many if each page is mapped once). These are 28 bytes each. (See pmap_init() in pmap.c) The kernel itself will come out of real memory too. The kernel is loaded into 4MB pages, and any residue in the last 4MB page appears to be lost at the moment. I'm not sure if this was always the case (well, since PSE was introduced) or if it's just an issue since Bosko's fix for the weird Pentium bugs was committed. If you look at the "phys_avail" array of a running system, you can see how much the "hole" for the kernel takes up: > petere@hippo# gdb -k /usr/src/sys/i386/compile/HIPPO/kernel.debug /dev/mem > GNU gdb 5.2.1 (FreeBSD) > [snip] > (kgdb) p phys_avail > $1 = {4096, 651264, 1048576, 4194304, 12738560, 526987264, 0, 0, 0, 0} > (kgdb) This array shows the spans of physical memory that were found at boot time. The even elements (counting from 0) are the start of the span, with odd elements being the end. My box shows a hole between 4194304 and 12738559: This is where the kernel was loaded. Assuming your phys_avail map had a similar 8MB hole for the kernel, then the minimum estimate of the amount of space consumed before printing the "avail memory" message can be calculated as follows: Available memory in pages = 107366288 / 4096 = 253369 Space Lost to struct "vm_page"s: 253369 * 72 = 18242568 Space Lost to struct "pv_entry"s: 253369 * 28 = 7094332 Space Lost to kernel "hole": 12738560 - 4194304 = 8544256 -------- 33881156 that's within 2MB of what you're seeing. You can probably take out some more space for preloaded kld admin overhead, and the message buffer, and probably plenty more I can't think of (BIOS and WITNESS SYSINITS at least happen between the final print out and the VM initialisation: that probably accounts for a lot of the remainder) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 13:16:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AFBF16A4B3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B534643F75 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:16:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cliftonr@lava.net) Received: by malasada.lava.net (Postfix, from userid 102) id 27FFE153D7D; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:16:54 -1000 (HST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:16:54 -1000 From: Clifton Royston To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org>; 12:00:36PM -0700 Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:16:55 -0000 > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:28:27 -0600 (MDT) > From: "M. Warner Losh" > Subject: rsync vs installworld > Message-ID: <20031018.192827.118920091.imp@bsdimp.com> > > I'm contemplating a binary distribution system for some systems that I > have. I'm ignoring kernel updates for the moment, and concentrating > on userland deployment. > > I'm thinking of doing something like: > > make buildworld > make installworld DESTDIR=/big/disk/freebsd/image > make mergemaster -D /big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster > > And then on each machine I want to update I'd do something like: > > sudo rsync --exclude etc --exclude usr/local --exclude boot \ > --delete -av host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/image / > sudo rm -rf /tmp/mergemaster > sudo scp host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster /tmp/mergemaster > sudo mergemaster -someargs > > My question is: has anybody else tried this? If so, what bumps along > the way are there going to be? I'm also very interested in this topic, as we're about to try to get something similar working. Initially it will be for a moderate number of servers at one location, and so can require console intervention, but in our case it eventually needs to extend to many systems located elsewhere with no onsite administrator. In our case we have already built a simple framework for distributing FreeBSD binary packages built within the ports system (rsync presently, but extensible to http/https.) I have been hoping that it's possible to build on the "make release" approach to generate a set of binary packages for updates to the base system, distribute those via rsync, and then install the package collection. It seems to me that an advantage of that approach is that one could incorporate some of that mergemaster logic into the pkg-install scripts. Feedback, direction, or real-world experience with like systems would be welcomed. -- Clifton -- Clifton Royston -- cliftonr@tikitechnologies.com Tiki Technologies Lead Programmer/Software Architect Did you ever fly a kite in bed? Did you ever walk with ten cats on your head? Did you ever milk this kind of cow? Well we can do it. We know how. If you never did, you should. These things are fun, and fun is good. -- Dr. Seuss From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 13:39:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D921A16A4BF for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E6F43FDD for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ps@mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 214022ED441; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:39:18 -0700 From: Paul Saab To: Mike Silbersack Message-ID: <20031019203918.GA56974@elvis.mu.org> References: <3F919CA9.F99EA2F0@cs.princeton.edu> <20031018173800.B706@odysseus.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031018173800.B706@odysseus.silby.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Yaoping Ruan Subject: Re: High mem (4GB) support on FreeBSD 4.8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:39:19 -0000 Mike Silbersack (silby@silby.com) wrote: > Some of the kernel autoscaling values may be off with 4GB machines; I > believe that this has been fixed with 4.9, so running 4.9-RC3 might be the > easiest answer. Yes, there are issues at exactly 4GB which were fixed at USENIX in san antonio. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 8 15:35:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEBD16A4BF for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55D943FE3 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sh@bel.bc.ca) Received: from antalus ([154.5.106.237]) by priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.netSMTP <20030908223510.BCJM4781.priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net@antalus> for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:35:10 -0600 Message-ID: <001d01c37659$76af4230$0300000a@antalus> From: "Sean Hamilton" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: mmap(2) questions, reads not caching X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:35:12 -0000 X-Original-Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:32:16 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:35:12 -0000 I have some code resembling: FILE * f = fopen (filename, "rb"); mmap (NULL, st.st_size, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, fileno (f), 0); I've found that reads are not brought into disk cache. Successive reads on the same file once again read from disk. If I cat the file to /dev/null, then the mmap(2) does indeed read the data from cache. What's going on here? Also, the man page states that the mapped region may be longer than the specified size. Does this have any implications for the size which is passed to munmap(2)? If I pass the same size to munmap(2), then will there still be leftover, or will the entire region be unmapped? And, should I be passing MAP_PRIVATE or MAP_SHARED to read-only mmaps? Does it make any difference at all? Running 5.1-RELEASE. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 30 16:34:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E61E16A4B3; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from canning.wemm.org (canning.wemm.org [192.203.228.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7D443FEC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by canning.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A796D2A7EA; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey In-Reply-To: <20030930020819.GP45668@wantadilla.lemis.com> From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20030930233442.A796D2A7EA@canning.wemm.org> cc: "Tony A, Fields" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: clwilson@ucla.edu Subject: Re: nVidia nForce2 potential owners please read (take two) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:34:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:34:42 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:34:43 -0000 Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Monday, 29 September 2003 at 12:45:35 -0700, Tony A, Fields wrote: > > Thanks for your effort to get the nVidia folks to pony up the > > documentation. I unfortunately purchased a system that has a motherboard > > that uses the MCP2 network adapter chip set. I now have to rethink how I am > > going to configure the system as a file server that straddles the > > enterprise wide intranet and a local lab network while maintaining some > > isolation between the two. > > A 100 Mb/s NIC will cost you about $10. But in a 1U case, it won't fit since you likely do not have any PCI slots and depend on what is on the motherboard. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 15:34:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8392516A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0A143FDF for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (bicknell@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h99MYX8i067000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h99MYXWj066999 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:34:33 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031009223433.GA66764@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20031009192707.GA57227@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20031009165331.Q61977@odysseus.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031009165331.Q61977@odysseus.silby.com> Organization: United Federation of Planets X-PGP-Key: http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Subject: Re: 802.11 AP Status? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:34:35 -0000 --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message written on Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 04:59:46PM -0500, Mike Silbers= ack wrote: > Note that if you're willing to run -current, your options are even > better: According to the ath manpage, the Atheros based cards support BSS > mode, they're a/b/g capable, and they're true PCI/cardbus cards, so they > should perform better. Hey, this is looking like a really good option. The only thing that's not clear to me is can you do b and g at the same time (eg, have a 54M g and 11M b client off the same AP) with a single card, or would you need to have two cards, one running in each mode? I get the impression if you run an AP in 802.11g mode then 802.11b clients "just work", but it doesn't say that explicitly. --=20 Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/heJ5Nh6mMG5yMTYRAoWzAJ9q9aJH63LFdGuIM5LbB9pV8ny55QCfW4B+ bDe9mANmdRhm0gZIVyoyFAo= =s09e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 23:33:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF4816A4B3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meitner.wh.uni-dortmund.de (meitner.wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.129.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8C443FAF; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelnottebrock@gmx.net) Received: from lofi.dyndns.org (pc2-105.intern.meitner [10.3.12.105]) by meitner.wh.uni-dortmund.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19AEC16768E; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from gmx.net (kiste.my.domain [192.168.8.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by lofi.dyndns.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9B6Xij4080854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:33:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from michaelnottebrock@gmx.net) Message-ID: <3F87A447.8020901@gmx.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:33:43 +0200 From: Michael Nottebrock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, de-de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Norikatsu Shigemura References: <20031008033536.7f6099b5.nork@FreeBSD.org> <20031009174211.GA364@zi025.glhnet.mhn.de> <20031011083235.087ecfc9.nork@FreeBSD.org> <200310110248.h9B2m3iR019297@sakura.ninth-nine.com> In-Reply-To: <200310110248.h9B2m3iR019297@sakura.ninth-nine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: kde@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-mozilla@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-gnome@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [kde-freebsd] Re: HEADS UP: pelase test /etc/libmap.conffeature on 4-stable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:33:48 -0000 Norikatsu Shigemura wrote: > > 1. (kde side) Anyone, would you please make a patch for > nspluginscane to look /usr/X11R6/lib/browsers_plugins? > or > 2. (pluginwrapper side) If 1 is no, I'll install Flash6 > plugin to /usr/local/netscape/plugins. Personally I'd like (2) better, /usr/X11/lib/browser_plugins isn't really in the spirit of hier(7). Great to hear about this flashplugin-via-libmap project, can you provide some details? We'd like to put a HOWTO on kde-freebsd's homepage, etc. > And, do you know freebsd-kde mailling list? I know kde@ is, > but I don't know public mailling list like freebsd-gnome@. > (and, as possible as, freebsd-opera, too) kde@freebsd.org is the main public mailing list for KDE ports. There is an additional mailing lists with a smaller audience (mostly consisting of freebsd-ports- & KDE-developer people), kde-freebsd-devel@lists.csociety.org. -- ,_, | Michael Nottebrock | lofi@freebsd.org (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org \u/ | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 18:39:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C9316A4BF for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpx.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpx.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.107]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBAFD43F75 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:39:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 9113 invoked by uid 50005); 20 Oct 2003 01:39:48 -0000 Received: from tms2@mail.ptd.net by smtpx.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.15 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4297. spamassassin: 2.43. Clear:. Processed in 0.463658 secs); 20 Oct 2003 01:39:48 -0000 Received: from du34001.cli.ptd.net (HELO mail.ptd.net) ([204.186.34.1]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpx.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Oct 2003 01:39:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3F92B728.9030102@mail.ptd.net> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:09:12 -0400 From: "T.M. Sommers" Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20030104 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: bsd.prog.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 01:39:54 -0000 Is /usr/share/mk/bsd.prog.mk intended for use by any old program, or should it only be used only for FreeBSD itself? Obviously, using it would be less portable, but there are times when that does not matter. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 22:19:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6450D16A4B3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-lbl.southeast.rr.com [24.25.9.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D95F43FB1 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@ec.rr.com) Received: from ec.rr.com (cpe-024-211-231-149.ec.rr.com [24.211.231.149]) h9K5JSQT015360 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 01:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F939AFD.4090200@ec.rr.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 01:21:17 -0700 From: jason User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: problem with new files X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:19:32 -0000 I hope this is the right list. I just cvsuped after a fresh install and all was fine until after I did the first $make update. This is the first time I used make as opposed to $cvsup /.... I learned something new and I like it. Even less work on the cml. :-) The file /usr/src/Makefile.inc1 has an error on line 744. It was an easy fix, just took off the last ")" I think. Its late for me, hope this helps someone. Jason From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 22:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A576516A4B3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE98D43F75 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9K5Q6hk000428; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:56:07 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: "T.M. Sommers" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:56:05 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <3F92B728.9030102@mail.ptd.net> In-Reply-To: <3F92B728.9030102@mail.ptd.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310201456.05192.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -4.4 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: Re: bsd.prog.mk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:26:13 -0000 On Monday 20 October 2003 01:39, T.M. Sommers wrote: > Is /usr/share/mk/bsd.prog.mk intended for use by any old program, or > should it only be used only for FreeBSD itself? Obviously, using it > would be less portable, but there are times when that does not matter. We use it at work with fairly good results. It IS portable since you can copy those makefiles and build pmake on your destination machine :) (I have done this on a Linux box trivially) -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 22:47:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CA816A4B3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vusa.lt (ns.vusa.lt [193.219.44.89]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EDE743F93 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:47:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from molotov@vusa.lt) Received: by vusa.lt (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 7A3E6101BF; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:47:27 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:47:27 +0300 From: molotov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031020054727.GA97552@vusa.lt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: about the IC7-MAX3 motherboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 05:47:29 -0000 Hello I've posted some problem description to freebsd-hardware, but this list seems to be related too. Your help would be appreciated. Here's the post: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hardware/2003-October/000669.html Thank you in advance, regards, Simonas Kareiva From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 23:19:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B89616A4B3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.online.bg (gandalf.online.bg [217.75.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 86AA943FCB for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@ringlet.net) Received: (qmail 25693 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 06:18:58 -0000 Received: from office.sbnd.net (HELO straylight.ringlet.net) (217.75.140.130) by gandalf.online.bg with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 06:18:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 10810 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Oct 2003 06:19:32 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:19:31 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031020061931.GE57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org> <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="t0UkRYy7tHLRMCai" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:19:37 -0000 --t0UkRYy7tHLRMCai Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 10:16:54AM -1000, Clifton Royston wrote: > > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:28:27 -0600 (MDT) > > From: "M. Warner Losh" > > Subject: rsync vs installworld > > Message-ID: <20031018.192827.118920091.imp@bsdimp.com> > >=20 > > I'm contemplating a binary distribution system for some systems that I > > have. I'm ignoring kernel updates for the moment, and concentrating > > on userland deployment. > >=20 > > I'm thinking of doing something like: > >=20 > > make buildworld > > make installworld DESTDIR=3D/big/disk/freebsd/image > > make mergemaster -D /big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster > >=20 > > And then on each machine I want to update I'd do something like: > >=20 > > sudo rsync --exclude etc --exclude usr/local --exclude boot \ > > --delete -av host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/image / > > sudo rm -rf /tmp/mergemaster > > sudo scp host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster /tmp/mergemaster > > sudo mergemaster -someargs > >=20 > > My question is: has anybody else tried this? If so, what bumps along > > the way are there going to be? >=20 > I'm also very interested in this topic, as we're about to try to get > something similar working. Initially it will be for a moderate number > of servers at one location, and so can require console intervention, > but in our case it eventually needs to extend to many systems located > elsewhere with no onsite administrator. >=20 > In our case we have already built a simple framework for distributing > FreeBSD binary packages built within the ports system (rsync presently, > but extensible to http/https.) I have been hoping that it's possible to > build on the "make release" approach to generate a set of binary > packages for updates to the base system, distribute those via rsync, > and then install the package collection. It seems to me that an > advantage of that approach is that one could incorporate some of that > mergemaster logic into the pkg-install scripts. >=20 > Feedback, direction, or real-world experience with like systems would > be welcomed. Errr, isn't this pretty much what Colin Percival's security/freebsd-update port already does? :) Take a look at http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-update/ - this might be exactly what you are looking for... G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@sbnd.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 This sentence would be seven words long if it were six words shorter. --t0UkRYy7tHLRMCai Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/k35z7Ri2jRYZRVMRAjwhAJ9mS2RYdmJ3+8nboHldU7AJDV0G0QCgxqMZ HTjVAZUGgLkjodmD/yAK3Oo= =uBNX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --t0UkRYy7tHLRMCai-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 23:42:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D983116A4B3 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E1B43F75 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.166] helo=localhost) by tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABTjz-00080q-Mq for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:42:07 +0100 Received: from rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.165]) by localhost (scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 30598-04 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:42:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABTjy-00080m-Cg for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:42:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 17804 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 2003 06:42:06 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 3.153878 secs); 20 Oct 2003 06:42:06 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 3.153878 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 06:42:03 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031020073640.031bf968@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:41:51 +0100 To: Peter Pentchev , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <20031020061931.GE57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> References: <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org> <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:42:10 -0000 At 09:19 20/10/2003 +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote: >On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 10:16:54AM -1000, Clifton Royston wrote: > > In our case we have already built a simple framework for > > distributing FreeBSD binary packages built within the ports system ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > (rsync presently, > > but extensible to http/https.) I have been hoping that it's possible to > > build on the "make release" approach to generate a set of binary > > packages for updates to the base system, distribute those via rsync, > > and then install the package collection. > >Errr, isn't this pretty much what Colin Percival's >security/freebsd-update port already does? :) FreeBSD Update doesn't handle the ports tree. That said, as long as one wishes to track the release branch of base, there's no reason not to use FreeBSD Update + portupgrade. This wasn't an option for the original poster (imp@) because he wanted to track -stable. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 00:06:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F45A16A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mizar.origin-it.net (mizar.origin-it.net [194.8.96.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D45743F85 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from helge.oldach@atosorigin.com) Received: from matar.hbg.de.int.atosorigin.com (dehsfw3e.origin-it.net [194.8.96.68])h9K764vG072041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:06:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from helge.oldach@atosorigin.com) Received: from galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com (galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com [161.89.20.4])ESMTP id h9K763no050622; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:06:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from helge.oldach@atosorigin.com) Received: (from hmo@localhost) by galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com (8.9.3p2/8.9.3/hmo30mar03) id JAA06855; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:05:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> In-Reply-To: <20031018.192827.118920091.imp@bsdimp.com> from "M. Warner Losh" at "Oct 19, 2003 3:28:27 am" To: imp@bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:05:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: Helge Oldach X-Address: Atos Origin GmbH, Friesenstraße 13, D-20097 Hamburg, Germany X-Phone: +49 40 7886 7464, Fax: +49 40 7886 9464, Mobile: +49 160 4782517 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:06:21 -0000 M. Warner Losh: >I'm contemplating a binary distribution system for some systems that I >have. I'm ignoring kernel updates for the moment, and concentrating >on userland deployment. > >I'm thinking of doing something like: > >make buildworld >make installworld DESTDIR=/big/disk/freebsd/image >make mergemaster -D /big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster > >And then on each machine I want to update I'd do something like: > >sudo rsync --exclude etc --exclude usr/local --exclude boot \ > --delete -av host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/image / >sudo rm -rf /tmp/mergemaster >sudo scp host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster /tmp/mergemaster >sudo mergemaster -someargs > >My question is: has anybody else tried this? If so, what bumps along >the way are there going to be? Rsync doesn't deal with file flags (chflags(2)). Thus my personal preference for updating machines is making installworld on a file system exported by the build server. Helge From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 00:48:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97AD716A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.online.bg (gandalf.online.bg [217.75.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4928743FB1 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@ringlet.net) Received: (qmail 9405 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 07:47:45 -0000 Received: from office.sbnd.net (HELO straylight.ringlet.net) (217.75.140.130) by gandalf.online.bg with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 07:47:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 19702 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Oct 2003 07:48:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:48:20 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20031020074820.GF57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Colin Percival , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org> <20031019101653.A29979@tikitechnologies.com> <5.0.2.1.1.20031020073640.031bf968@popserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sXc4Kmr5FA7axrvy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031020073640.031bf968@popserver.sfu.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:48:25 -0000 --sXc4Kmr5FA7axrvy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 07:41:51AM +0100, Colin Percival wrote: > At 09:19 20/10/2003 +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote: > >On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 10:16:54AM -1000, Clifton Royston wrote: > >> In our case we have already built a simple framework for > >> distributing FreeBSD binary packages built within the ports system > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> (rsync presently, > >> but extensible to http/https.) I have been hoping that it's possible to > >> build on the "make release" approach to generate a set of binary > >> packages for updates to the base system, distribute those via rsync, > >> and then install the package collection. > > > >Errr, isn't this pretty much what Colin Percival's > >security/freebsd-update port already does? :) >=20 > FreeBSD Update doesn't handle the ports tree. That said, as long as on= e=20 > wishes to track the release branch of base, there's no reason not to use= =20 > FreeBSD Update + portupgrade. > This wasn't an option for the original poster (imp@) because he wanted= =20 > to track -stable. Guess I should've expanded a bit on my ideas here :) What I meant was not that they should use your excellent service as it is, but that they might try to duplicate its functionality - use your tools, the binary diff and the update script, to produce their own update sets for the base system. For the ports tree, well, there is already ports/sysutils/portupgrade which, combined with a reasonably recent INDEX rebuild and a central package repository for packages built using either the package-recursive target or scripts similar to those in ports/Tools/scripts/pkg-stash/, should be a good way to manage package deployment across multiple hosts. G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@sbnd.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 because I didn't think of a good beginning of it. --sXc4Kmr5FA7axrvy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/k5NE7Ri2jRYZRVMRArgUAJ46ZSExoboAxoq+wNCXyUZ6wS0pkQCdEqb9 YgWAnRL340rTvOj7bnCoALk= =DNk5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sXc4Kmr5FA7axrvy-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:13:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1A816A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B046943FBD for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K9DVE7008084; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:13:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20031020.031124.05471800.imp@bsdimp.com> To: helge.oldach@atosorigin.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> References: <20031018.192827.118920091.imp@bsdimp.com> <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:13:49 -0000 In message: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> Helge Oldach writes: : Rsync doesn't deal with file flags (chflags(2)). Thus my personal : preference for updating machines is making installworld on a file system : exported by the build server. I'm looking for ways to avoid having NFS run on the network in question at all. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:19:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5F416A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A42743F93 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K9JY4b008062; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:19:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: "M. Warner Losh" From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:11:24 MDT." <20031020.031124.05471800.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:19:34 +0200 Message-ID: <8061.1066641574@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:19:52 -0000 In message <20031020.031124.05471800.imp@bsdimp.com>, "M. Warner Losh" writes: >In message: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> > Helge Oldach writes: >: Rsync doesn't deal with file flags (chflags(2)). Thus my personal >: preference for updating machines is making installworld on a file system >: exported by the build server. > >I'm looking for ways to avoid having NFS run on the network in >question at all. Many years ago, in a computerroom far away, I ran "make world" with a magic (x)install program which spit out tarfile (or was it CPIO?) records which I then sent through tcp to the remote machine. I don't have the code anymore, but the idea is available to anyone who wants it :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:42:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8FA16A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D48443F85 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K9gmLq037275; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:42:49 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:42:48 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: Peter Pentchev In-Reply-To: <20031020061931.GE57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> Message-ID: <20031020134059.K36677@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org> <20031020061931.GE57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:42:53 -0000 On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Peter Pentchev wrote: [snip] PP> > > make buildworld PP> > > make installworld DESTDIR=/big/disk/freebsd/image PP> > > make mergemaster -D /big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster PP> > > PP> > > And then on each machine I want to update I'd do something like: PP> > > PP> > > sudo rsync --exclude etc --exclude usr/local --exclude boot \ PP> > > --delete -av host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/image / PP> > > sudo rm -rf /tmp/mergemaster PP> > > sudo scp host-server:/big/disk/freebsd/mergemaster /tmp/mergemaster PP> > > sudo mergemaster -someargs [snip] PP> Errr, isn't this pretty much what Colin Percival's PP> security/freebsd-update port already does? :) Take a look at PP> http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-update/ - this might be exactly what PP> you are looking for... Nope, because: - security/freebsd-update does not handle ports at all - it is only for security branches and so does not fit in the case of locally patched system Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:47:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478F616A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BDB43FAF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K9l4Lq037306; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:47:04 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:47:04 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20031020.031124.05471800.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20031020134508.P36677@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20031018.192827.118920091.imp@bsdimp.com> <20031020.031124.05471800.imp@bsdimp.com> X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:47:15 -0000 On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, M. Warner Losh wrote: MWL> In message: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> MWL> Helge Oldach writes: MWL> : Rsync doesn't deal with file flags (chflags(2)). Thus my personal MWL> : preference for updating machines is making installworld on a file system MWL> : exported by the build server. MWL> MWL> I'm looking for ways to avoid having NFS run on the network in MWL> question at all. netpipe by dds@ then? The first drawback of course is that netpipe opens back-connection which isn't good for strict firewalls, but I think this could be avoided by inventing something like "passive netpipe" mode... Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:52:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D1316A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A37443FD7 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:52:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.166] helo=localhost) by tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABWiJ-0005Nv-NY for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:52:35 +0100 Received: from rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.165]) by localhost (scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 20621-02 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:52:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABWiJ-0005Nm-A9 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:52:35 +0100 Received: (qmail 29188 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 2003 09:52:35 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.574281 secs); 20 Oct 2003 09:52:35 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.574281 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 09:52:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031020104723.02c5a420@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:52:29 +0100 To: Dmitry Morozovsky , Peter Pentchev From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <20031020134059.K36677@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20031020061931.GE57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> <20031019190036.3426D16A4D7@hub.freebsd.org> <20031020061931.GE57130@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:52:37 -0000 At 13:42 20/10/2003 +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: >Nope, because: >- security/freebsd-update does not handle ports at all >- it is only for security branches and so does not fit in the case of locally >patched system Local patches aren't a problem, actually -- regardless of what I may advertise, FreeBSD Update doesn't really track the security branches either: It tracks "release branches plus some local fixup patches" (the only user-visible change is that kernels are labeled as -SECURITY intead of -RELEASEpx). Of course, you'd need to build your own updates if you're doing this, but the code is all online and (reasonably) straightforward. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C206116A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E194343FA3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K9scE7008768; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20031020.035232.08284225.imp@bsdimp.com> To: marck@rinet.ru From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20031020134508.P36677@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> <20031020.031124.05471800.imp@bsdimp.com> <20031020134508.P36677@woozle.rinet.ru> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:54:43 -0000 In message: <20031020134508.P36677@woozle.rinet.ru> Dmitry Morozovsky writes: : On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, M. Warner Losh wrote: : : MWL> In message: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> : MWL> Helge Oldach writes: : MWL> : Rsync doesn't deal with file flags (chflags(2)). Thus my personal : MWL> : preference for updating machines is making installworld on a file system : MWL> : exported by the build server. : MWL> : MWL> I'm looking for ways to avoid having NFS run on the network in : MWL> question at all. : : netpipe by dds@ then? The first drawback of course is that netpipe opens : back-connection which isn't good for strict firewalls, but I think this could : be avoided by inventing something like "passive netpipe" mode... I'm not familiar with this. Can you proivde a URL? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:59:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4160A16A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D78C43F75 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9K9wwLq037447; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:58:58 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:58:58 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20031020.035232.08284225.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: <20031020135711.F36677@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <200310200705.JAA06855@galaxy.hbg.de.ao-srv.com> <20031020134508.P36677@woozle.rinet.ru> <20031020.035232.08284225.imp@bsdimp.com> X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rsync vs installworld X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:59:10 -0000 On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, M. Warner Losh wrote: MWL> : MWL> : Rsync doesn't deal with file flags (chflags(2)). Thus my personal MWL> : MWL> : preference for updating machines is making installworld on a file system MWL> : MWL> : exported by the build server. MWL> : MWL> MWL> : MWL> I'm looking for ways to avoid having NFS run on the network in MWL> : MWL> question at all. MWL> : MWL> : netpipe by dds@ then? The first drawback of course is that netpipe opens MWL> : back-connection which isn't good for strict firewalls, but I think this could MWL> : be avoided by inventing something like "passive netpipe" mode... MWL> MWL> I'm not familiar with this. Can you proivde a URL? It has been announced at -hackers@ a couple of months ago, and I successfully used it for remote backups. Now dds@ changed its names, and I suppose I should take a closer look at it again. http://www.spinellis.gr/sw/unix/socketpipe/ Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 06:14:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983F816A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9910143FE1 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:14:41 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031020131441.GH43526@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Panic in -CURRENT setting up fxp0 or wi0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:14:47 -0000 Hi, I'd though I draw the attention of -hackers to http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=58139 maybe someone has some idea what's going wrong in the interrupt handler. TIA, Daniel -- IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Der Zweite Platz ist Dreck - Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 08:49:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEB6616A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys03.mail.msu.edu (sys03.mail.msu.edu [35.9.75.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F00A43FB1 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from muk@msu.edu) Received: from muk by sys03.mail.msu.edu with local (Exim 4.10 #3) (authenticated as muk) id 1ABcHD-000GES-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:48:59 -0400 From: "Matthew A Kolb" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:48:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Subject: nfs unlink confusion. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:49:01 -0000 I am having an anurism over this. Trying to opendir, readdir and unlink files in a directory over nfs (with fbsd-current client and a variety of nfs servers (netapp, linux fbsd) seems to produce unexpected results. if i run this code: #include #include #include #include int main(void) { DIR *dirp; struct dirent *dire; int i = 0; dirp=opendir("."); while ((dire=readdir(dirp)) != NULL) { i++; if (dire->d_name[0] == '.') continue; if (unlink(dire->d_name) != 0) fprintf(stderr, "boned. %s\n", dire->d_name); } closedir(dirp); fprintf(stderr, "i: %d\n", i); return(0); } on a directory with 200 entries, I always end up with ~ 70 files which are not unlinked. unlink() never returns -1. when i run the same code on a linux nfs client, it works fine. if i run the code on a locally mounted ufs partition, it works fine. can someone fill me in here? am i doing something wrong? rm * in the directory removes all the files. does fts_*() do some magic to make sure this works (i.e. why does it work with rm, but not with my code). does this have to do with atomic unlink() over nfs? thanks for any help! ./muk p.s. please cc me. -- m. kolb From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 09:51:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE3F16A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sandvine.com (sandvine.com [199.243.201.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DDE43FD7 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:51:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from AdilK@sandvine.com) Received: by mail.sandvine.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4CQ6NTG7>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:51:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: Adil Katchi To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:51:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: building sshd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:51:27 -0000 Has anyone tried making sshd? I ran src/secure/usr.sbin/sshd/Makefile and this is the error I got: auth1.o: In function `do_authloop': /d2/akatchi/src/secure/usr.sbin/sshd/../../../crypto/openssh/auth1.c:121: undefi ned reference to `abandon_challenge_response' *** Error code 1 Thanks, Adil -----Original Message----- From: Mark Murray [mailto:mark@grondar.org] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 3:39 PM To: Adil Katchi Cc: 'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org' Subject: Re: building sshd Adil Katchi writes: > I'm trying to build sshd from src/crypto/openssh and I'm having problems. > I've only modified auth2.c. I've followed the FREEBSD-upgrade instructions. > So, this is what I've done: > > 1. autoconf // to generate the configure file > 2. autoheader // got a bunch of warnings but no errors > 3. ./configure --with-pam --with-s-key // PAM was configured, but S/Key > wasn't.. dunno why yet > 4. make sshd // below are the errors I got after a bunch of warnings No. That is NOT how its built. Look at src/secure/*/*ssh*/Makefile M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 10:42:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466C916A4BF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CBC143FA3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722F966D80; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7756BDA6; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:42:45 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Adil Katchi Message-ID: <20031020174245.GA60013@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: building sshd X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:42:51 -0000 --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 12:51:17PM -0400, Adil Katchi wrote: > Has anyone tried making sshd? I ran src/secure/usr.sbin/sshd/Makefile and > this is the error I got: >=20 > auth1.o: In function `do_authloop': > /d2/akatchi/src/secure/usr.sbin/sshd/../../../crypto/openssh/auth1.c:121: > undefi > ned reference to `abandon_challenge_response' > *** Error code 1 Just do a 'make buildworld' if you can't get it to work piecewise. There's probably something else that needs to be built first, like libssh. Kris --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lB6VWry0BWjoQKURAivOAJ0TgdA3RG236mhgprvZhWydy16Q9QCgtYYc FI58/Ybn9iiGMXc4BtYl6ik= =5dqx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 13:52:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9973C16A4BF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC18E43FB1 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9KKq7G6073910; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9KKq75d073907; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:52:08 -0000 At BSDCon '03 it was mentioned that a process checkpoint / restore facility would be a useful addition to FreeBSD. This post is to announce that Matt and I have added such a facility to DragonFly BSD. It is noteworthy for -hackers as anyone who is interested could still port it with relative ease. Basically you use it by kldload'ing the checkpt.ko module, which should now be built automatically. You then ^E the program you want to checkpoint, and use the 'checkpt' utility in /usr/bin to resume it from the checkpoint file. The program is *NOT* killed by this signal, it continues to run after the checkpoint file(s) have been generated. Alternatively, you can send the program any signal that will cause it to coredump and exit. You will then be able to restore from the core dump! In conjunction with a shared file system this can be used for process migration. The checkpoint program is currently designed to work only with simple programs... it will restore the signal, descriptors references to regular files, the VM state (anonymous memory), as well as any nominal file mappings, but it cannot restore sockets, pipes, or device descriptors. So, while you can checkpoint a pipe sequence, you can't really restore it. Pipes, ttys, and common devices (zero, null, bpf) will not be that hard to add. Stream sockets are an open question. Please note that there are *SEVERE* security issues with this module. The module is not loaded into the kernel by default and, when loaded, can only be used by users in the wheel group. You can change the group requirements with a sysctl (see the manual page for checkpt). The security issues relate to the restoration of signals and file descriptors (in particular, the restoration system call will convert file handles into file descriptors which could potentially allow any file in the system to be accessed). Matt has put in some basic security checks but they are not meant to be all encompassing! It is going into the tree now because Matt and I have done enough work on it that anyone else interested in working on it can theoretically dig in. Significant debugging is still in place. We've left it as a module to facilitate debugging. It should be useable for scientific applications now. It should already work considerably better then the linux equivalent what with the regular file descriptor save/restore capability. Any developer who wishes to work on the checkpointing module and related code is welcome to! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 14:03:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BD916A4C0 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906BD43F75 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:03:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9KL3BG6078681 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:03:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9KL3Bbr078677 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:03:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> Message-ID: <20031020140201.Y63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: modified files for: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:03:12 -0000 The impacted files are in the directories sys/checkpt and usr.bin/checkpt as well as sys/kern/imgact_elf.c and sys/kern/kern_fp.c. -Kip From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 14:59:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1D816A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ebb.errno.com (ebb.errno.com [66.127.85.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4901143FB1 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:59:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@errno.com) Received: from 66.127.85.91 ([66.127.85.91]) (authenticated bits=0) by ebb.errno.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KLxU0x091582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:59:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@errno.com) From: Sam Leffler Organization: Errno Consulting To: Kip Macy , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:00:52 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> In-Reply-To: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310201500.53053.sam@errno.com> Subject: Re: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:59:33 -0000 I've lived through several checkpointing implementations. You've got the easy part. Applications must participate or such a facility has very limited usefulness. Delivering a signal is only part of the problem; there tend to be issues synchronizing user-mode checkpoint of application state with the kernel's desired to stop the process and squirrel away state. There's lots of stuff published about this; check the literature. Sam From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 17:01:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9128F16A4BF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CED43FAF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9L01UiF000709; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9L01Tea000708; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200310210001.h9L01Tea000708@apollo.backplane.com> To: Sam Leffler References: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> <200310201500.53053.sam@errno.com> cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:01:32 -0000 :I've lived through several checkpointing implementations. You've got the easy :part. Applications must participate or such a facility has very limited :usefulness. Delivering a signal is only part of the problem; there tend to :be issues synchronizing user-mode checkpoint of application state with the :kernel's desired to stop the process and squirrel away state. : :There's lots of stuff published about this; check the literature. : : Sam Well, now it depends heavily on ones goals. There are a huge number of scientific jobs that only need the type of basic checkpointing that you see in, say, linux, which I believe can only handle sbrk() space. Kip has taken it one step further with the file descriptor and mapping save/restore. It's kinda silly to poo-poo the work when the alternative is to have nothing at all. Being able to bite a chunk out of a significant scientific application-set is important. There's an obvious demand for even the very basic checkpointing capability that you see in Linux and I personally believe that it can be done a whole lot better in a BSD environment. The work is also applicable to other things, like debugging. It's a better savecore then savecore, so to speak. With just a tiny bit of work one can checkpoint a running program and then check-restore it into a stopped state and attach GDB to it without interfering with the original process. You get the entire memory space and most of the descriptors *intact*, and you get a live duplicate of the process, making it possible to single step (at least up to a point) even a program that normally could not be checkpointed. I'll take that over the static image you get from a core file any day of the week! In a non-SSI environment there are limits (which have not yet been reached). In an SSI environment, however, which is one of DragonFly's goals, one needs only to add cluster-wide filehandles and a stall/restart capability and the checkpoint code will be able to move the biggest chunk of the process --- it's anonymous memory, to another physical machine, with the rest of pieces trailing behind. That is why the work is so exciting to me. Even if SSI is not one of your goals, the scientific and debugging benefits of the basic capability cannot be denied. You do want to compete a bit more with Linux don't you? Well, this is how it starts. -Matt Matthew Dillon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 07:09:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267F816A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC92043F3F for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:09:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:09:29 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: hackers@freebsd.org, Eric Anholt Message-ID: <20031021140929.GC348@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <20031009154030.GI2407@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20031012025658.GA1994@doom.homeunix.org> <1065930291.642.28.camel@leguin> <20031009154030.GI2407@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20031012025658.GA1994@doom.homeunix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1065930291.642.28.camel@leguin> <20031012025658.GA1994@doom.homeunix.org> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: Igor Pokrovsky Subject: Re: Matrox Parhelia XFree86 Busmastering kernel module? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:09:54 -0000 --IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, sorry for coming back so late, but here are more details to the Matrox problem: Eric Anholt wrote on Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 08:44:51PM -0700: > > AFAIK, you can enable bus mastering using pciconf(8) by setting appropr= iate registers. > > Why do you need any additional kernel module? Or I'm completely missing= the point? > >=20 > > -ip >=20 > Busmastering is not an important part of kernel modules used for aiding > accelerating graphics, if it is at all. Notably, XFree86 enables > busmastering itself for all the cards it supports that need it (radeon, > r128, mga, i8x0, etc.). What that module is more likely for is doing > things that require kernel support, such as handling of interrupts to > efficiently use the card's DMA support and sharing of resources between > various competing direct-rendering clients. [..] Ok, I quote from the XFree86 startup log: [..] XFree86 Version 4.3.0 Release Date: 27 February 2003 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.6 Build Operating System: FreeBSD 4.8 i386 [ELF]=20 Build Date: 01 July 2003 Before reporting problems, check http://www.XFree86.Org/ to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (=3D=3D) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (=3D=3D) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Tue Oct 21 13:02:37 2003 (=3D=3D) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config" (=3D=3D) ServerLayout "Multihead" (**) |-->Screen "Merged" (0) (**) | |-->Monitor "suntft1" (**) | |-->Device "p650-1" (**) |-->Input Device "Mouse1" (**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard1" (**) Option "AutoRepeat" "500 30" (**) Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" (**) XKB: rules: "xfree86" (**) Option "XkbModel" "pc104" (**) XKB: model: "pc104" (**) Option "XkbLayout" "us" (**) XKB: layout: "us" [..] (--) PCI:*(1:0:0) Matrox Graphics, Inc. unknown chipset (0x2537) rev 2, Mem= @ 0xf4000000/26, 0xf3000000/13, BIOS @ 0xf3fe0000/17 [..] (II) LoadModule: "mtx" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/mtx_drv.o (II) Module mtx: vendor=3D"Matrox Graphics Inc." compiled for 4.2.1, module version =3D 0.2.1 Module class: XFree86 Video Driver ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.5 (II) Loading extension MTXGamma [..] (II) MTX: driver for Matrox chipsets: Parhelia(C), Parhelia(D), Parhelia(X) (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0 (--) Chipset Parhelia(X) found [..] (**) MTX(0): Option "HWcursor" "off" (**) MTX(0): Option "accel" "no" (**) MTX(0): Option "Busmastering" "on" (**) MTX(0): Option "MergedFB" (**) MTX(0): Option "Monitor2HSync" "30.0 - 164.0" (**) MTX(0): Option "Monitor2VRefresh" "58.0 - 75.0" (**) MTX(0): Option "Monitor2Position" "RightOf" (**) MTX(0): Option "MetaModes" "1280x1024-1280x1024" (**) MTX(0): Option "DigitalScreen1" "on" (**) MTX(0): Option "DigitalScreen2" "on" (**) MTX(0): Option "OffScreen" "2" (=3D=3D) MTX(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) (**) MTX(0): Acceleration disabled (II) MTX(0): Forcing Digital Mode [1] (II) MTX(0): Forcing Digital Mode [2] [..] (=3D=3D) MTX(0): Write-combining range (0xf3000000,0x2000) was already clear (=3D=3D) MTX(0): Write-combining range (0xf4000000,0x4000000) (II) MTX(0): vgaHWGetIOBase: hwp->IOBase is 0x03d0, hwp->PIOOffset is 0x0000 (=3D=3D) MTX(0): Write-combining range (0xa0000,0x10000) was already clear (WW) MTX(0): Cannot use Parhelia module for acceleration, device failed to = open with error code 3. (II) MTX(0): Using Digital Output [1]=20 (II) MTX(0): Using Digital Output [2] (WW) MTX(0): WARNING: Busmastering cannot be initialized at the request of = the user or due to previous errors, falling back to safe mode. Note that many features are not supported in safe mode,=20 such as OpenGL rendering. Please read carefully the Matrox drivers README file for troubleshooting. [..] And from the Linux-Driver README: [..] Enabling bus mastering =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The driver can run with bus mastering On or Off. Having bus mastering On ge= nerally=20 gives better performances. To run with bus mastering a kernel driver, mtx.o= ,=20 must be compiled. On most configurations the installation script will seaml= essly take care of the kernel driver compilation. In order to use bus mastering, the following modules must be loaded: (1) mtx.o: Parhelia kernel module The kernel module must be compiled for your system. The script file "install.sh" will attempt to compile the module. If it does not succeed, you can compile it manually by entering the following: [ compile instructions for linux kernel module omitted ] The "make install" command installs the kernel module in the proper location. The X server should load the kernel module automatically. If not, typing "insmod mtx" in the installed location will load the module.=20 [..] To enable or disable bus mastering, add the following to the XF86Config-4 file: Option "Busmastering" "on" or Option "Busmastering" "off"=20 Note that busmastering will always be assumed to be on if the busmastering option isn't set in your X config file. [..] So currently Busmastering cannot be enabled, since the additional kernel-module is not available. Since it seems strange that Busmastering requires a kernel module, maybe FreeBSD could somehow enable Busmastering anyway and trick the module=20 not to require the kernel module? Btw, I could increase 2D-Performance to a bearable state by increasing off-screen memory. Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock =20 Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --IpbVkmxF4tDyP/Kb Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq hkiG9w0BCQEWFWRhbmllbC5sYW5nQGluLnR1bS5kZTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw gYkCgYEAk55VXazdhYUuEJAHmO439gJwKVfvcdF64VyP8tzhYwiIx/9FOsQj8r8Gw2g0MDCa 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 6852A16A4C3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8AC43FE0 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6188766C9E; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 36012A72; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:30:38 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Kip Macy Message-ID: <20031021163038.GA66101@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:30:39 -0000 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 01:52:07PM -0700, Kip Macy wrote: > Please note that there are *SEVERE* security issues with this module. > The module is not loaded into the kernel by default and, when loaded, > can only be used by users in the wheel group. Why the wheel group? Until now, the only special privilege this group has is that users are allowed to su to root, if they knew the password. It looks like now you've removed the root password barrier and allow anyone in the wheel group to manipulate processes to obtain root without a password :-) Kris --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lV8tWry0BWjoQKURAkh8AKCK5wo+JjWpt0g6oUz8/NvAPjaidQCfSBUC H7QvdOZuN39B9pQEz3Z8Epw= =1ctB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 13:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB3D16A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.silverwraith.com (66-214-182-79.la-cbi.charterpipeline.net [66.214.182.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A3343FAF for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleen@silverwraith.com) Received: from avleen by mail.silverwraith.com with local (Exim 4.22) id 1AC2nq-0000sW-Sx; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:08:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:08:26 -0700 From: Avleen Vig To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20031021200826.GS792@silverwraith.com> References: <20031020134532.B63978@demos.bsdclusters.com> <20031021163038.GA66101@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031021163038.GA66101@rot13.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Avleen Vig cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:08:33 -0000 On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 09:30:38AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Please note that there are *SEVERE* security issues with this module. > > The module is not loaded into the kernel by default and, when loaded, > > can only be used by users in the wheel group. > > Why the wheel group? Until now, the only special privilege this group > has is that users are allowed to su to root, if they knew the > password. It looks like now you've removed the root password barrier > and allow anyone in the wheel group to manipulate processes to obtain > root without a password :-) If you don't want them getting root, don't put them in wheel? ;-) -- Avleen Vig Systems Administrator Personal: www.silverwraith.com EFnet: irc.mindspring.com (Earthlink user access only) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 13:41:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EB116A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postman.ripe.net (postman.ripe.net [193.0.0.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF31043F3F for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ms@dell-laptop.6bone.nl) Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 445654ECB6; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:41:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4DBE4E6B9 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:41:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dell-laptop.6bone.nl (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with SMTP id h9LKf1VZ004249 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:41:01 +0200 Received: (nullmailer pid 843 invoked by uid 1001); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:41:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:40:59 +0200 From: Mark Santcroos To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031021204059.GA756@laptop.6bone.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Handles: MS6-6BONE, MS18417-RIPE X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.465585 X-RIPE-Signature: 809b84b0683e32a81f669cbd2f41b40c Subject: early write to pci conf register X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:41:04 -0000 What is the earliest point in the boot process that I can write to a pci conf registers of a pci device? I would like to disable some sub devices before they get probed. Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 15:47:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1601B16A4B3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8A343FBF; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9LMldsd009441; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id h9LMldnE009440; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:47:38 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031021154738.A9175@xorpc.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Subject: suspect spl*() code in syscons.c X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:47:41 -0000 Hi, both -current and -stable have the following snippet of code in sys/dev/syscons/syscons.c:scclose(): { ... int s; if (SC_VTY(dev) != SC_CONSOLECTL) { ... s = spltty(); ... } spltty(); (*linesw[tp->t_line].l_close)(tp, flag); ttyclose(tp); spl0(); return(0); } Note that the omitted code never does any spl*() call, nor it uses the saved value anymore. Also, i am a bit suspicious about the spltty()/spl0() sequence. Can someone explain if this code is correct ? (I have Bcc-ed the committers involved in writing this code, maybe they know the answer). cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 19:22:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FAB16A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ram.onthenet.com.au (ram.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE1143FA3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q@onthenet.com.au) Received: from [172.22.1.10] (boxster.staff.onthenet.com.au [172.22.1.10]) (authenticated bits=0)h9M2MbI7066960 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:22:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from q@onthenet.com.au) From: Q To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:22:35 +1000 X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021212) (ram.onthenet.com.au) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:22:41 -0000 As an effort to get more acquainted with the FreeBSD kernel, I have been looking through how mmap works. I don't yet understand how it all fits together, or of the exact implications things may have in the wild, but I have noticed under some synthetic conditions, ie. mmaping small non-contiguous pages of a file, mmap allocation scales much more poorly on FreeBSD than on OpenBSD and Linux 2.6. After investigating this further I have observed that vm_map_findspace() traverses a linked list to find the next region (O(n) cost), whereas OpenBSD and Linux 2.6 both use Red-Black trees for the same purpose (O(log n) cost). Profiling the FreeBSD kernel appears to confirm this. Can someone comment on whether this is something that has been done intentionally, or avoided in favour of some other yet to be implemented solution? Or is it still on someones todo list. -- Seeya...Q -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ / Quinton Dolan - q@OntheNet.com.au __ __/ / / __/ / / / __ / _/ / / Gold Coast, QLD, Australia __/ __/ __/ ____/ / - / Ph: +61 419 729 806 _______ / _\ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 19:49:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4AD616A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3A643FD7 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:49:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from gamplex.bde.org (katana.zip.com.au [61.8.7.246]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3p2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11982; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:49:09 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:47:47 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@gamplex.bde.org To: Luigi Rizzo In-Reply-To: <20031021154738.A9175@xorpc.icir.org> Message-ID: <20031022121648.A20430@gamplex.bde.org> References: <20031021154738.A9175@xorpc.icir.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: suspect spl*() code in syscons.c X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:49:33 -0000 On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > both -current and -stable have the following snippet of code in > sys/dev/syscons/syscons.c:scclose(): > > { > ... > int s; > > if (SC_VTY(dev) != SC_CONSOLECTL) { > ... > s = spltty(); > ... > } > spltty(); > (*linesw[tp->t_line].l_close)(tp, flag); > ttyclose(tp); > spl0(); > return(0); > } > > Note that the omitted code never does any spl*() call, nor it > uses the saved value anymore. Also, i am a bit suspicious about the > spltty()/spl0() sequence. > > Can someone explain if this code is correct ? > (I have Bcc-ed the committers involved in writing this code, > maybe they know the answer). The initial ipl state is "known" to be that given by spl0(), so there is no need to save the initial state to restore it using splx(); spl0() sufficies. However, when the omitted code neglects to restore the state, the initial state is not that given by spl0() when the omitted code is executed. Then using spl0() instead of splx() apparently-accidentally fixes the bug. The scope of the spltty() seems to be a bit large but I don't know what it should be exactly. Ideally, the whole device close should be atomic (and as a prerequisite, non-interruptible), but that is not possible for all console drivers although it may be possible for syscons. I have noticed the following incompletely handled races in the corresponding code for the sio driver: 1. Last-close may block, mainly in l_close. Quoting the above code again: spltty(); (*linesw[tp->t_line].l_close)(tp, flag); ttyclose(tp); spl0(); So despite holding spltty() here, we may block (mainly waiting for output to drain). Perhaps we have to wait for output to drain even for synchcronous consoles like syscons, since their output may be blocked by something like scroll lock for syscons (I don't know where this block actually occurs). While we are blocked, we have to drop the ipl so we may be affected by signals. But generally signals aren't a problem here. More the reverse -- you can have a process waiting forever in exit() for output to drain and want to kill it but can't because the process has committed to exiting and doesn't accept any more signals. 2. The vfs permits (non-first) opens to succeed while last-close is blocked. For sio, this is useful behaviour. You can use it to issue ioctls to unblock last-closes that would otherwise be blocked until the next reboot. However, the driver doesn't really understand this so it may make a mess of its state when the last-close completes despite the device ending up open at the file level. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 23:32:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF2616A4BF for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from claygirl.org (dsl3-63-249-66-30.cruzio.com [63.249.66.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471BD43FBD for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yussef@claygirl.org) Received: from [192.168.1.118] (helo=marathon.claygirl.org) by claygirl.org with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.8) id 1ACCY2-00013y-QR for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:32:46 -0700 From: yussef To: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.4; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:32:46 -0700 Subject: wireless device cant go thru wap to nfs/smb server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:32:48 -0000 I posted this to -mobile, but im gonna send it here in case anyone might have a better idea. thanks I have a fbsd 4.8 router which also acts as my wireless access point, bridging the wireless interface to the internal nic. on top of that, up until recently, it was my nfs/smb file server as well. Everything was working fine in this setup, so i had to go and change something, and create new problems;) I moved the file serving over to a newer box, that will be dedicated mainly just to NFS and SMB [depending on whether its a windows machine or NIX machine accessing it]. Computers on the network connected over ethernet are able to mount shares and manipulate the data on the shares just fine [copying files back and forth, listening to music, etc]. When i try to mount an NFS or SMB share from a device connected wirelessly, im able to do this just fine. However, with NFS im unable to do much with the data. I can browse thru the data just fine [eg, viewing mp3s in xmms]. But as soon as i try to move data from the remote share to the local system, it seems to cause the share to just sorta hang. If i open up a term, and do a simple ls /share it the term becomes unresponsive. even ctrl+c doesnt save me. the only way ive figured out how to return the system to normal is a umount -f /share and this isnt the most elegant or proper solution. With SMB its a similar story. I after its mounted, i can brown the share. If i go to play a song thru xmms, it will play, but it will pause almost every second, tho it will continue playing [so i guess technically its more affective, at this point, than NFS]. If i switch my wireless devices to a wired connection, then everything works fine. So it seems pretty clear its not an issue with the wireless devices themselves, but the means of connection. My assumption is because im going thru the router/wap to get to the fileserver, this is somehow mucking up the way NFS/SMB do things. But I have no idea exactly why its doing this, and even more importantly, no idea how to fix this problem, besides making the router/wap the fileserver again, or making the new fileserver the wap [and this might not even work, as i havent tried it yet]. and both of these solutions are far from ideal. thanks for the help. yussef update: since making the initial post to mobile, it's become more clear to me this probably isnt an issue with nfs/smb but something to do with the way bridging works. I've yet to have a look thru the code [and im no programmer], tho i plan to look thru, and see if anything catches my eye. in the mean time, i thought maybe someone else more in the know, might have an idea about a solution. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 00:51:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB3C16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brainlink.com (mail.brainlink.com [66.228.0.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D9043FAF for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anthonyv@brainlink.com) Received: from [24.185.193.147] (HELO superior.local.non-standard.net) by brainlink.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with ESMTP id 22931435; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:51:56 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:51:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Anthony Volodkin X-X-Sender: anthonyv@superior.local.non-standard.net To: yussef In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031022031645.S98405-100000@superior.local.non-standard.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wireless device cant go thru wap to nfs/smb server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:51:59 -0000 Hey, You might consider doing some tests to see if you get packet loss to the NFS/SMB server. That seems to be the issue. It would make sense that nfs would act weird, as nfs doesnt like packet loss :) What is happening with winamp seems logical as well, in this situation. If it does indeed turn out to be packet loss, then i'd consider investing in a real access point and plugging in with a crossover cable into an ethernet interface on your router box. I assume that you currently use a PCMCIA card+adapter. -Anthony On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, yussef wrote: > I posted this to -mobile, but im gonna send it here in case anyone > might have a better idea. thanks > > I have a fbsd 4.8 router which also acts as my wireless access point, > bridging the wireless interface to the internal nic. on top of that, up > until recently, it was my nfs/smb file server as well. Everything was > working fine in this setup, so i had to go and change something, and > create new problems;) > > I moved the file serving over to a newer box, that will be dedicated > mainly just to NFS and SMB [depending on whether its a windows machine > or NIX machine accessing it]. Computers on the network connected over > ethernet are able to mount shares and manipulate the data on the shares > just fine [copying files back and forth, listening to music, etc]. > When i try to mount an NFS or SMB share from a device connected > wirelessly, im able to do this just fine. However, with NFS im unable to > do much with the data. I can browse thru the data just fine [eg, viewing > mp3s in xmms]. But as soon as i try to move data from the remote share > to the local system, it seems to cause the share to just sorta hang. If > i open up a term, and do a simple ls /share it the term becomes > unresponsive. even ctrl+c doesnt save me. the only way ive figured out > how to return the system to normal is a umount -f /share and this isnt > the most elegant or proper solution. > With SMB its a similar story. I after its mounted, i can brown the > share. If i go to play a song thru xmms, it will play, but it will pause > almost every second, tho it will continue playing [so i guess > technically its more affective, at this point, than NFS]. > If i switch my wireless devices to a wired connection, then everything > works fine. So it seems pretty clear its not an issue with the wireless > devices themselves, but the means of connection. > My assumption is because im going thru the router/wap to get to the > fileserver, this is somehow mucking up the way NFS/SMB do things. But I > have no idea exactly why its doing this, and even more importantly, no > idea how to fix this problem, besides making the router/wap the > fileserver again, or making the new fileserver the wap [and this might > not even work, as i havent tried it yet]. and both of these solutions > are far from ideal. > > thanks for the help. > yussef > > update: since making the initial post to mobile, it's become more clear > to me this probably isnt an issue with nfs/smb but something to do with > the way bridging works. I've yet to have a look thru the code [and im > no programmer], tho i plan to look thru, and see if anything catches my > eye. in the mean time, i thought maybe someone else more in the know, > might have an idea about a solution. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 00:55:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0A816A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp8.uk1.bibliotech.net (smtp8.uk1.bibliotech.net [212.57.34.118]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4A643FB1 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:55:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from my_all@postmaster.co.uk) Received: from pmweb14.uk1.bibliotech.net ([212.57.34.142]) by smtp8.uk1.bibliotech.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 1ACDqQ-0005KD-00 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:55:50 +0100 Received: from pmweb by pmweb14.uk1.bibliotech.net with local (Exim 4.04) id 1ACDqQ-0006WS-00 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:55:50 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) From: maya Haddad To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:55:50 +0300 X-Postmaster: Sent from Postmaster http://www.postmaster.co.uk/, the world's premier web based email service, based in London, England. X-Postmaster-Trace: Account name: my_all; Domain name: postmaster.co.uk; Local time: Wed Oct 22 10:55:50 2003; Local host: pmweb14.uk1.bibliotech.n et; Remote host: 66.198.39.25; Referer site: www.postmaster.co.uk X-Complaints-To: General account for reporting spam and other abuse of the service , IT coordinator at responsible organisation X-Postmaster-Team-Photo: http://www.postmaster.co.uk/static/en/nav/credits .html Message-Id: Subject: network lkm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: my_all@postmaster.co.uk List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:55:55 -0000 Regards, would you provide me with an example of network module under linux kernel 2.4. -- --peace for all-- ___________________________________________________ Take your business online with Officemaster. Sign up for a free trial today! http://www.officemaster.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 01:01:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F199D16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp5.uk1.bibliotech.net (smtp5.uk1.bibliotech.net [212.57.34.104]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669CB43FA3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from my_all@postmaster.co.uk) Received: from pmweb10.uk1.bibliotech.net ([212.57.34.140]) by smtp5.uk1.bibliotech.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 1ACDvz-00015W-00; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:01:35 +0100 Received: from pmweb by pmweb10.uk1.bibliotech.net with local (Exim 4.04) id 1ACDvy-0005c6-00; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:01:34 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) From: maya Haddad To: seawood@very.priv.at Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:01:34 +0300 X-Postmaster: Sent from Postmaster http://www.postmaster.co.uk/, the world's premier web based email service, based in London, England. X-Postmaster-Trace: Account name: my_all; Domain name: postmaster.co.uk; Local time: Wed Oct 22 11:01:34 2003; Local host: pmweb10.uk1.bibliotech.n et; Remote host: 66.198.41.17; Referer site: www.postmaster.co.uk X-Complaints-To: General account for reporting spam and other abuse of the service , IT coordinator at responsible organisation X-Postmaster-Team-Photo: http://www.postmaster.co.uk/static/en/nav/credits .html Message-Id: cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: no subject X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: my_all@postmaster.co.uk List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:01:42 -0000 would you help me in writing network LKM under linux kernel 2.4, small examole would be good. -- --peace for all-- ___________________________________________________ Web-based office space for rent. Free trial! http://www.officemaster.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 01:23:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6860416A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3EE43FE1 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9M8NKaT039076; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:23:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost)h9M8NJtx039073; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:23:19 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])h9M8KfWl066956; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:20:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200310220820.h9M8KfWl066956@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: my_all@postmaster.co.uk In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:01:34 +0300." Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:20:40 +0100 Sender: mark@grondar.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FROM_NO_LOWER,IN_REP_TO version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: seawood@very.priv.at Subject: Re: no subject X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:23:22 -0000 maya Haddad writes: > would you help me in writing network LKM under linux kernel 2.4, small examol > e would be good. You sent this to a FreeBSD list, you need to find a Linux list instead. M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 01:29:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4ED16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C209443FB1 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DAB866CFA; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 17B43DAD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:29:53 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Q Message-ID: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:29:55 -0000 --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 12:22:35PM +1000, Q wrote: > Can someone comment on whether this is something that has been done > intentionally, or avoided in favour of some other yet to be implemented > solution? Or is it still on someones todo list. You can consult the FreeBSD and OpenBSD CVS repositories (http://cvsweb.freebsd.org, the equivalent OpenBSD URL is listed on their website) to find the history of this code. I don't know if there is any Linux source history browser because of the historical lack of published revision control files for the kernel. Kris --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lkABWry0BWjoQKURAlvYAJ9VKz71E6tNDyDV0GVcobrnEFWGPwCg/zJo QXsVd4UGjkuHTfF6E5Dm8sI= =Z0Bc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 01:30:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F035316A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2988043FDD for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:30:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE43166D88; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D7178DB2; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:30:45 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: maya Haddad Message-ID: <20031022083045.GB69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="E39vaYmALEf/7YXx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: network lkm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:30:47 -0000 --E39vaYmALEf/7YXx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 10:55:50AM +0300, maya Haddad wrote: > Regards, >=20 > would you provide me with an example of network module under linux kernel= 2.4. No. Have a nice day! Kris P.S. Try a Linux list :-) --E39vaYmALEf/7YXx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lkA1Wry0BWjoQKURAjpRAJ4x6VS02opmCcf6biJMfnJBu3tjHwCg7WP1 NgcXEa3mWvD5BkrLodlQ/u0= =30o4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --E39vaYmALEf/7YXx-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 01:36:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193F416A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe-inc.co.jp (axegw.axe-inc.co.jp [61.199.217.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA6943F3F for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:36:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from takawata@axe-inc.co.jp) Received: from axe-inc.co.jp (dnk.axe-inc.co.jp [192.47.224.47]) by axe-inc.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id RAA02109; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:36:27 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200310220836.RAA02109@axe-inc.co.jp> To: Kris Kennaway In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:29:53 MST." <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:38:45 +0900 From: User Takawata cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:36:41 -0000 In message <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org>, Kris Kennaway wrote: >On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 12:22:35PM +1000, Q wrote: > >> Can someone comment on whether this is something that has been done >> intentionally, or avoided in favour of some other yet to be implemented >> solution? Or is it still on someones todo list. > >You can consult the FreeBSD and OpenBSD CVS repositories >(http://cvsweb.freebsd.org, the equivalent OpenBSD URL is listed on >their website) to find the history of this code. I don't know if >there is any Linux source history browser because of the historical >lack of published revision control files for the kernel. After 2.4, Linux use BitKeeper repository and the repository can be browsed on http://linux.bkbits.net/ . From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 01:51:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF1816A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE12E43F93 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8924366CFA; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5A6BF427; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:51:28 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: User Takawata Message-ID: <20031022085128.GA69617@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <200310220836.RAA02109@axe-inc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310220836.RAA02109@axe-inc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:51:29 -0000 --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 05:38:45PM +0900, User Takawata wrote: > In message <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org>, Kris Kennaway w= rote: > >On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 12:22:35PM +1000, Q wrote: > > > >> Can someone comment on whether this is something that has been done > >> intentionally, or avoided in favour of some other yet to be implemented > >> solution? Or is it still on someones todo list. > > > >You can consult the FreeBSD and OpenBSD CVS repositories > >(http://cvsweb.freebsd.org, the equivalent OpenBSD URL is listed on > >their website) to find the history of this code. I don't know if > >there is any Linux source history browser because of the historical > >lack of published revision control files for the kernel. >=20 > After 2.4, Linux use BitKeeper repository and the repository can > be browsed on http://linux.bkbits.net/ . OK, I'm glad to hear that after 9 years sanity has caught up with them :-) Kris --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lkUPWry0BWjoQKURAqkKAJkBABw+2NhAjJmlNk0ULO0qibV4dgCeKjLj 32dlyjofpaHYTye3MXlD4FM= =JVac -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 02:51:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7344816A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DA55A43FD7 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q_dolan@yahoo.com.au) Received: from q.onthenet.com.au (HELO ?192.168.100.154?) (q?dolan@203.10.89.214 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 09:51:34 -0000 From: Q To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> Message-Id: <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:51:28 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:51:35 -0000 Thanks, I have already looked over the repositories to determine how they differed. I wasn't really asking about the history of these changes in the other projects, but rather the history of why FreeBSD HASN'T also gone down this road. There doesn't appear to be anything in CVS or the mail archives that I can find that would indicate any intention to change the current implementation. Seeya...Q On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 18:29, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 12:22:35PM +1000, Q wrote: > > > Can someone comment on whether this is something that has been done > > intentionally, or avoided in favour of some other yet to be implemented > > solution? Or is it still on someones todo list. > > You can consult the FreeBSD and OpenBSD CVS repositories > (http://cvsweb.freebsd.org, the equivalent OpenBSD URL is listed on > their website) to find the history of this code. I don't know if > there is any Linux source history browser because of the historical > lack of published revision control files for the kernel. > > Kris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 02:57:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB5016A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DA643F93 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAED66D88; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3D5EADAF; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:57:55 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Q Message-ID: <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:57:57 -0000 --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:51:28PM +1000, Q wrote: > Thanks, I have already looked over the repositories to determine how > they differed. I wasn't really asking about the history of these changes > in the other projects, but rather the history of why FreeBSD HASN'T also > gone down this road. There doesn't appear to be anything in CVS or the > mail archives that I can find that would indicate any intention to > change the current implementation. I'm assuming that FreeBSD has some version of the historical BSD implementation, and the change was made in OpenBSD (or perhaps NetBSD before the split), and it has not been considered before in FreeBSD. I have no familiarity with the code in question, however. Kris --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/llSiWry0BWjoQKURAvQpAKDvzPtwQ1bTWrrMwDGq2tn2RnkuQgCgs+iq ysfssp13WeNBE44VMHSTUdQ= =721Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 04:00:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F2016A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp101.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp101.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [216.136.174.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D54543FD7 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:00:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q_dolan@yahoo.com.au) Received: from q.onthenet.com.au (HELO ?192.168.100.154?) (q?dolan@203.10.89.214 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 11:00:41 -0000 From: Q To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> Message-Id: <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:00:36 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:00:47 -0000 Yes, it would appear this is a legacy thing that existed in the original 1994 import of the BSD 4.4 Lite source. Both FreeBSD and NetBSD still use this technique, but OpenBSD changed to using Red-Black trees back in Feb 2002. The actual commit quote reads: "use a red-black tree to find entries in the vm_map. augment the red-black tree to find free space between entries. speeds up memory allocation, etc..." I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used by OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. Seeya...Q On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 19:57, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:51:28PM +1000, Q wrote: > > Thanks, I have already looked over the repositories to determine how > > they differed. I wasn't really asking about the history of these changes > > in the other projects, but rather the history of why FreeBSD HASN'T also > > gone down this road. There doesn't appear to be anything in CVS or the > > mail archives that I can find that would indicate any intention to > > change the current implementation. > > I'm assuming that FreeBSD has some version of the historical BSD > implementation, and the change was made in OpenBSD (or perhaps NetBSD > before the split), and it has not been considered before in FreeBSD. > I have no familiarity with the code in question, however. > > Kris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 04:13:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6764C16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.covadmail.net (mx05.covadmail.net [63.65.120.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F20B43F75 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:13:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from strick@covad.net) Received: (covad.net 30229 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 11:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ice.nodomain) (68.165.100.161) by sun-qmail01 with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 11:13:38 -0000 Received: from ice.nodomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ice.nodomain (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9MBDiDR001429; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:13:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@ice.nodomain) Received: (from dan@localhost) by ice.nodomain (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h9MBDhhw001428; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:13:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Strick Message-Id: <200310221113.h9MBDhhw001428@ice.nodomain> To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: dan@ice.nodomain Subject: boot0/1 problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:13:45 -0000 I seem to have stubbed my toe on another nasty little bootstrap problem. My Gigabyte motherboard AWARD BIOS passes the wrong drive number in the %dl register when it invokes the MBR bootstrap program, boot0. This forces me to configure the MBR bootstrap with the setdrv option. The noupdate option must also be set because otherwise I risk writing the MBR partition table back to the wrong disk and that would be a major disaster. Here is the problem: the boot1 program depends on the boot0 program setting the active partition flag in the MBR partition table. This doesn't happen if the boot0 noupdate option is set. The boot1 program always boots the active FreeBSD slice (or the first FreeBSD slice if there is no active FreeBSD slice). If you have multiple FreeBSD slices on a disk whose boot0 program is configured with the noupdate option, YOU CAN ONLY BOOT ONE OF THE SLICES. I have release 4.9-RCx and 5.1 slices on the same disk. If the 5.1 slice is active, the system wedges hard if I attempt to boot the 4.9-RCx slice. If the 4.9-RCx slice is active, the system resets if I attempt to boot the 5.1 slice. This really sucks. Can someone who knows how the bootx programs are supposed to work verify that my understanding of the problem is probably correct? Can someone suggest a workaround? I don't have the option of installing the different operating systems on different disks and I can't get the AWARD BIOS fixed. Dan Strick strick@covad.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 07:40:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E4A16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90F743F85 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h9MEeild021914; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:40:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:40:44 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Q Message-ID: <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:40:46 -0000 In the last episode (Oct 22), Q said: > Yes, it would appear this is a legacy thing that existed in the > original 1994 import of the BSD 4.4 Lite source. Both FreeBSD and > NetBSD still use this technique, but OpenBSD changed to using > Red-Black trees back in Feb 2002. > > The actual commit quote reads: > > "use a red-black tree to find entries in the vm_map. augment the > red-black tree to find free space between entries. speeds up memory > allocation, etc..." > > I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used > by OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. Probably just a case of "too much to do and not enough people to do it". FreeBSD already has sys/tree.h, which provides the red-black tree macros. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 07:47:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B31F16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (smtp4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1A243F3F for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 07:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmkml@wanadoo.fr) Received: from [10.0.0.254] (AAubervilliers-101-1-5-49.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.82.49]) by mwinf0401.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 93576580027E for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:47:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:47:29 +0200 (CEST) From: rmkml X-X-Sender: rmkml@hp.mgn.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: pb compiled freebsd 49rc3 (iso) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:47:48 -0000 Hi, Im found pb compiled : # cd /sys # make ......... cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../common -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../btx/lib -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../.. -I. -DCOMPORT=0x3f8 -DCOMSPEED=9600 -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../../../lib/libstand/ -DTERM_EMU -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -c i386_module.c -o i386_module.o cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../common -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../btx/lib -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../.. -I. -DCOMPORT=0x3f8 -DCOMSPEED=9600 -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../../../lib/libstand/ -DTERM_EMU -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -c nullconsole.c -o nullconsole.o cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../common -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../btx/lib -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../.. -I. -DCOMPORT=0x3f8 -DCOMSPEED=9600 -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../../../lib/libstand/ -DTERM_EMU -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -c pxe.c -o pxe.o pxe.c:41: net.h: No such file or directory pxe.c:42: netif.h: No such file or directory pxe.c:43: nfsv2.h: No such file or directory pxe.c:44: iodesc.h: No such file or directory pxe.c:46: bootp.h: No such file or directory pxe.c:84: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:84: warning: its scope is only this definition or declaration, which is probably not what you want. pxe.c:85: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:86: warning: `struct iodesc' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:88: warning: `struct iodesc' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:89: warning: `struct iodesc' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:90: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:100: elements of array `pxe_ifs' have incomplete type pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') pxe.c:102: invalid use of undefined type `struct netif_stats' pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') pxe.c:103: invalid use of undefined type `struct netif_dif' pxe.c:105: variable-size type declared outside of any function pxe.c:107: variable `pxenetif' has initializer but incomplete type pxe.c:108: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:108: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:109: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:109: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:110: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:110: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:111: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:111: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:112: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:112: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:113: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:113: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:114: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:114: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:115: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:115: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c:117: warning: excess elements in struct initializer pxe.c:117: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') pxe.c: In function `pxe_open': pxe.c:256: `FNAME_SIZE' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:256: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once pxe.c:256: for each function it appears in.) pxe.c:276: `rootip' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:283: `BOOTP_PXE' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:286: `rootpath' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:301: `gateip' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:303: `myip' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:303: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer without a cast pxe.c:304: `netmask' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:304: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer without a cast pxe.c:305: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer without a cast pxe.c:310: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer without a cast pxe.c: In function `pxe_close': pxe.c:339: `rootpath' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c: At top level: pxe.c:413: `NFS_FHSIZE' undeclared here (not in a function) pxe.c: In function `pxe_setnfshandle': pxe.c:423: `NFS_FHSIZE' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:423: size of array `buf' has non-integer type pxe.c: At top level: pxe.c:490: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:491: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_match' pxe.c:84: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_match' pxe.c:497: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:498: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_probe' pxe.c:85: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_probe' pxe.c:516: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list pxe.c:517: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_end' pxe.c:90: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_end' pxe.c:528: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_init' pxe.c:86: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_init' pxe.c: In function `pxe_netif_init': pxe.c:531: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c:532: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c: At top level: pxe.c:537: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_get' pxe.c:88: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_get' pxe.c:543: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_put' pxe.c:89: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_put' pxe.c: In function `sendudp': pxe.c:553: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c:554: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c:555: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c:560: `netmask' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:560: `myip' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c:560: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c:563: `gateip' undeclared (first use in this function) pxe.c: In function `readudp': pxe.c:589: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c:590: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type pxe.c: At top level: pxe.c:105: storage size of `pxe_st' isn't known *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/i386. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/sys. # # vi ./boot/i386/libi386/pxe.c ...... #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include ...... # find / -name net.h -ls # Regards. Franck From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 08:47:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C64C16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (smtp2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3A043FAF for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmkml@wanadoo.fr) Received: from [10.0.0.254] (AAubervilliers-101-1-5-49.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.48.82.49]) by mwinf0201.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D52EE3000350 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:47:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:46:50 +0200 (CEST) From: rmkml X-X-Sender: rmkml@hp.mgn.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: pb compiled freebsd 49rc3 (iso) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:47:12 -0000 sorry, its my pb and not an Error. Regards On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, rmkml wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:47:29 +0200 (CEST) > From: rmkml > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: pb compiled freebsd 49rc3 (iso) > > Hi, > > Im found pb compiled : > > # cd /sys > # make > ......... > cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../common > -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../btx/lib > -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../.. -I. -DCOMPORT=0x3f8 > -DCOMSPEED=9600 -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../../../lib/libstand/ > -DTERM_EMU -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -c i386_module.c -o i386_module.o > cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../common > -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../btx/lib > -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../.. -I. -DCOMPORT=0x3f8 > -DCOMSPEED=9600 -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../../../lib/libstand/ > -DTERM_EMU -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -c nullconsole.c -o nullconsole.o > cc -O -pipe -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../common > -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../btx/lib > -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../.. -I. -DCOMPORT=0x3f8 > -DCOMSPEED=9600 -I/usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386/../../../../lib/libstand/ > -DTERM_EMU -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -c pxe.c -o pxe.o > pxe.c:41: net.h: No such file or directory > pxe.c:42: netif.h: No such file or directory > pxe.c:43: nfsv2.h: No such file or directory > pxe.c:44: iodesc.h: No such file or directory > pxe.c:46: bootp.h: No such file or directory > pxe.c:84: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:84: warning: its scope is only this definition or declaration, which > is probably not what you want. > pxe.c:85: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:86: warning: `struct iodesc' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:88: warning: `struct iodesc' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:89: warning: `struct iodesc' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:90: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:100: elements of array `pxe_ifs' have incomplete type > pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') > pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') > pxe.c:102: invalid use of undefined type `struct netif_stats' > pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') > pxe.c:102: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:102: warning: (near initialization for `pxe_ifs[0]') > pxe.c:103: invalid use of undefined type `struct netif_dif' > pxe.c:105: variable-size type declared outside of any function > pxe.c:107: variable `pxenetif' has initializer but incomplete type > pxe.c:108: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:108: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:109: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:109: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:110: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:110: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:111: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:111: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:112: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:112: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:113: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:113: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:114: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:114: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:115: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:115: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c:117: warning: excess elements in struct initializer > pxe.c:117: warning: (near initialization for `pxenetif') > pxe.c: In function `pxe_open': > pxe.c:256: `FNAME_SIZE' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:256: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once > pxe.c:256: for each function it appears in.) > pxe.c:276: `rootip' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:283: `BOOTP_PXE' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:286: `rootpath' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:301: `gateip' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:303: `myip' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:303: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer > without a cast > pxe.c:304: `netmask' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:304: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer > without a cast > pxe.c:305: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer > without a cast > pxe.c:310: warning: passing arg 2 of `setenv' makes pointer from integer > without a cast > pxe.c: In function `pxe_close': > pxe.c:339: `rootpath' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c: At top level: > pxe.c:413: `NFS_FHSIZE' undeclared here (not in a function) > pxe.c: In function `pxe_setnfshandle': > pxe.c:423: `NFS_FHSIZE' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:423: size of array `buf' has non-integer type > pxe.c: At top level: > pxe.c:490: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:491: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_match' > pxe.c:84: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_match' > pxe.c:497: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:498: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_probe' > pxe.c:85: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_probe' > pxe.c:516: warning: `struct netif' declared inside parameter list > pxe.c:517: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_end' > pxe.c:90: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_end' > pxe.c:528: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_init' > pxe.c:86: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_init' > pxe.c: In function `pxe_netif_init': > pxe.c:531: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c:532: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c: At top level: > pxe.c:537: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_get' > pxe.c:88: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_get' > pxe.c:543: conflicting types for `pxe_netif_put' > pxe.c:89: previous declaration of `pxe_netif_put' > pxe.c: In function `sendudp': > pxe.c:553: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c:554: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c:555: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c:560: `netmask' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:560: `myip' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c:560: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c:563: `gateip' undeclared (first use in this function) > pxe.c: In function `readudp': > pxe.c:589: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c:590: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > pxe.c: At top level: > pxe.c:105: storage size of `pxe_st' isn't known > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/i386/libi386. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot/i386. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys/boot. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src/sys. > # > > > # vi ./boot/i386/libi386/pxe.c > ...... > #include > #include > #include > > #include > #include > #include > #include > > #include > #include > ...... > > > # find / -name net.h -ls > # > > Regards. > > Franck > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 08:51:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D9316A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arginine.spc.org (arginine.spc.org [195.206.69.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DB443F75 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 08:51:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bms@spc.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13754653AD; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:51:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from arginine.spc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (arginine.spc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 29470-02-17; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:51:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from saboteur.dek.spc.org (unknown [81.3.72.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41EE8653B5; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:51:01 +0100 (BST) Received: by saboteur.dek.spc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5587414; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:50:58 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:50:58 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson To: Dan Nelson Message-ID: <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> Mail-Followup-To: Dan Nelson , Q , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Q cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:51:07 -0000 On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 09:40:44AM -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > > The actual commit quote reads: > > > > "use a red-black tree to find entries in the vm_map. augment the > > red-black tree to find free space between entries. speeds up memory > > allocation, etc..." > > > > I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used > > by OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. > > Probably just a case of "too much to do and not enough people to do > it". FreeBSD already has sys/tree.h, which provides the red-black tree > macros. Now accepting patches! BMS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 12:23:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC15D16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from claygirl.org (dsl3-63-249-66-30.cruzio.com [63.249.66.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F22243FBD for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:23:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yussef@claygirl.org) Received: from [192.168.1.118] (helo=marathon.claygirl.org) by claygirl.org with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.8) id 1ACOa6-0001X7-KJ for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:23:42 -0700 From: yussef To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20031022031645.S98405-100000@superior.local.non-standard.net> References: <20031022031645.S98405-100000@superior.local.non-standard.net> Organization: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.4; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:23:42 -0700 Subject: Re: wireless device cant go thru wap to nfs/smb server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:23:44 -0000 On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Anthony Volodkin wrote: > Hey, > > You might consider doing some tests to see if you get packet loss to > the > NFS/SMB server. That seems to be the issue. It would make sense that > nfs > would act weird, as nfs doesnt like packet loss :) What is happening > with > winamp seems logical as well, in this situation. I ran some basic pings tests between the access point and the wireless devices. No packetloss was seen everything was making it through. I will look into thos more thoroughly as soon as i get a chance. > > If it does indeed turn out to be packet loss, then i'd consider > investing > in a real access point and plugging in with a crossover cable into an > ethernet interface on your router box. I assume that you currently use > a > PCMCIA card+adapter. yes im using a prism 2 based pci card. > > -Anthony > > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, yussef wrote: > > > I posted this to -mobile, but im gonna send it here in case anyone > > might have a better idea. thanks > > > > I have a fbsd 4.8 router which also acts as my wireless access > > point, > > bridging the wireless interface to the internal nic. on top of that, > > up > > until recently, it was my nfs/smb file server as well. Everything > > was > > working fine in this setup, so i had to go and change something, and > > create new problems;) > > > > I moved the file serving over to a newer box, that will be dedicated > > mainly just to NFS and SMB [depending on whether its a windows > > machine > > or NIX machine accessing it]. Computers on the network connected > > over > > ethernet are able to mount shares and manipulate the data on the > > shares > > just fine [copying files back and forth, listening to music, etc]. > > When i try to mount an NFS or SMB share from a device connected > > wirelessly, im able to do this just fine. However, with NFS im > > unable to > > do much with the data. I can browse thru the data just fine [eg, > > viewing > > mp3s in xmms]. But as soon as i try to move data from the remote > > share > > to the local system, it seems to cause the share to just sorta hang. > > If > > i open up a term, and do a simple ls /share it the term becomes > > unresponsive. even ctrl+c doesnt save me. the only way ive figured > > out > > how to return the system to normal is a umount -f /share and this > > isnt > > the most elegant or proper solution. > > With SMB its a similar story. I after its mounted, i can brown the > > share. If i go to play a song thru xmms, it will play, but it will > > pause > > almost every second, tho it will continue playing [so i guess > > technically its more affective, at this point, than NFS]. > > If i switch my wireless devices to a wired connection, then > > everything > > works fine. So it seems pretty clear its not an issue with the > > wireless > > devices themselves, but the means of connection. > > My assumption is because im going thru the router/wap to get to the > > fileserver, this is somehow mucking up the way NFS/SMB do things. > > But I > > have no idea exactly why its doing this, and even more importantly, > > no > > idea how to fix this problem, besides making the router/wap the > > fileserver again, or making the new fileserver the wap [and this > > might > > not even work, as i havent tried it yet]. and both of these > > solutions > > are far from ideal. > > > > thanks for the help. > > yussef > > > > update: since making the initial post to mobile, it's become more > > clear > > to me this probably isnt an issue with nfs/smb but something to do > > with > > the way bridging works. I've yet to have a look thru the code [and > > im > > no programmer], tho i plan to look thru, and see if anything catches > > my > > eye. in the mean time, i thought maybe someone else more in the > > know, > > might have an idea about a solution. > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 12:26:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4416D16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1747D43FBF for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 14188 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 19:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 22 Oct 2003 19:17:49 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9MJHjce093662; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:17:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200310221113.h9MBDhhw001428@ice.nodomain> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:17:58 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Dan Strick X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: dan@ice.nodomain Subject: RE: boot0/1 problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:26:08 -0000 On 22-Oct-2003 Dan Strick wrote: > I seem to have stubbed my toe on another nasty little bootstrap problem. > My Gigabyte motherboard AWARD BIOS passes the wrong drive number in the > %dl register when it invokes the MBR bootstrap program, boot0. > This forces me to configure the MBR bootstrap with the setdrv option. > The noupdate option must also be set because otherwise I risk writing > the MBR partition table back to the wrong disk and that would be a major > disaster. > > Here is the problem: the boot1 program depends on the boot0 program > setting the active partition flag in the MBR partition table. This > doesn't happen if the boot0 noupdate option is set. > > The boot1 program always boots the active FreeBSD slice (or the first > FreeBSD slice if there is no active FreeBSD slice). > If you have multiple FreeBSD slices on a disk whose boot0 program is > configured with the noupdate option, YOU CAN ONLY BOOT ONE OF THE > SLICES. > > I have release 4.9-RCx and 5.1 slices on the same disk. If the 5.1 > slice is active, the system wedges hard if I attempt to boot the > 4.9-RCx slice. If the 4.9-RCx slice is active, the system resets > if I attempt to boot the 5.1 slice. > > This really sucks. > > Can someone who knows how the bootx programs are supposed to work > verify that my understanding of the problem is probably correct? Yes, it is correct. > Can someone suggest a workaround? You can change the device you load the kernel from by changing the 'cuurdev' variable. Thus, if you do 'set currdev=disk1s2a' you can switch from the first slice to the second. You can set the device to mount your root filesystem from by using 'set vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:/dev/ad0s2a"'. You might be able to use the beastie menu in current and hack it to add a menu item for booting your 4.x slice and then always boot into the current loader and pick 4.x from the menu. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 13:41:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5DC16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74FA743F3F for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vjardin@free.fr) Received: from 192.168.0.15 (AVelizy-102-1-4-22.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.11.204.22]) by mwinf0501.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 12B0C4002C2 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:41:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Vincent Jardin To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:42:23 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310230042.23634.vjardin@free.fr> Subject: contigmalloc/contigfree vmstat -m X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:41:23 -0000 Hi, When contigmalloc and contigfree are used, the type of memory (M_xxx) is ignored. Then vmstat -m does not report any statistics about the memory usage of this kind of object. Is it a bug or a feature ? Regards, Vincent From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 13:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5E616A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paladin.fortunaty.net (fortunaty.net [217.160.129.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ACAD343F85 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ah@paladin.fortunaty.net) Received: (qmail 24634 invoked by uid 501); 22 Oct 2003 20:42:00 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:42:00 +0200 From: Andy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> X-Addicted: yeah X-License: BSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:42:03 -0000 On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:50:58PM +0100, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 09:40:44AM -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > > > The actual commit quote reads: > > > > > > "use a red-black tree to find entries in the vm_map. augment the > > > red-black tree to find free space between entries. speeds up memory > > > allocation, etc..." > > > > > > I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used > > > by OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. > > > > Probably just a case of "too much to do and not enough people to do > > it". FreeBSD already has sys/tree.h, which provides the red-black tree > > macros. > > Now accepting patches! You might want to have a look at fefe's research before you take the OpenBSD way. http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ aha From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 15:37:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5293C16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webcache.netbenefit.co.uk (webcache.netbenefit.co.uk [212.53.64.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4708543F85 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:37:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@keay.com) Received: from steve by webcache.netbenefit.co.uk with local (NetBenefit 1.7) id 1ACRbk-00058X-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:37:36 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:37:36 +0100 From: Steve Keay To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031022233735.S7575@netbenefit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Subject: NFS access_cache not working X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:46 -0000 We have puzzled long and hard over this one. I have seen similar questions in the past, but no answers: Using a FreeBSD 4.8 NFS client, mount options are the defaults. I watch for NFS activity using tcpdump. Every single stat() or open() causes "access" RPCs on the wire. In fact, doing "cat file" causes *three* access RPCs. Two of these are properly cached, but one is not. For instance, if I set vfs.nfs.access_cache_timeout=60 then "cat file" will cause three access RPCs. Doing the command again within 60 seconds causes just one access RPC. I don't think it should do any. 18:24:07.046508 10.10.10.106.3411144459 > 10.10.10.197.2049: 128 access fh Unknown/1 003f 18:24:07.049984 10.10.10.106.3411144460 > 10.10.10.197.2049: 128 access fh Unknown/1 003f 18:24:07.053673 10.10.10.106.3411144461 > 10.10.10.197.2049: 128 access fh Unknown/1 003f I get the same results using a NetApp server or a Linux server. Looking at nfs/nfs_vnops.c, it look like the result of the access rpc ought to be cached. Is this non-cached behaviour a feature that I can turn off? Other clients running linux happily cache everything, and do not cause any nfs operations until the cache times out, but then linux doesn't do any access rpc calls. The FreeBSD clients are killing the NFS server. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 15:41:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E3D16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E34A44011 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:40:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sh@bel.bc.ca) Received: from antalus ([207.81.9.161]) by priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031022224043.NQRN23657.priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net@antalus> for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:40:43 -0600 Message-ID: <005b01c398ed$87070080$0300000a@antalus> From: "Sean Hamilton" To: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:40:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Passthrough block device X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:41:46 -0000 Does FreeBSD support a device that will allow for the passing of all reads and writes on it to a userland application? I wish to handle swapping myself, preferably without any kernel hacking. What would happen if the kernel decided to swap out such a process? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 16:36:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8E016A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DC5443F75 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:36:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q_dolan@yahoo.com.au) Received: from vdub.onthenet.net (HELO ?172.22.1.10?) (q?dolan@203.10.89.16 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 23:36:52 -0000 From: Q To: Andy In-Reply-To: <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> Message-Id: <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:36:48 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:36:54 -0000 This is interesting, and demonstrates what I have been seeing, however OpenBSD obviously has other issues with it's mmap implementation entirely separate from this discussion. The case we are discussing is only about the choice of search technique used during the allocation of the mmap region from available free space.. an area in which FreeBSD and NetBSD clearly lag behind OpenBSD. This would in no way effect the performance of using the region after it has been allocated. Seeya...Q On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 06:42, Andy wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:50:58PM +0100, Bruce M Simpson wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 09:40:44AM -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > > > > The actual commit quote reads: > > > > > > > > "use a red-black tree to find entries in the vm_map. augment the > > > > red-black tree to find free space between entries. speeds up memory > > > > allocation, etc..." > > > > > > > > I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used > > > > by OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. > > > > > > Probably just a case of "too much to do and not enough people to do > > > it". FreeBSD already has sys/tree.h, which provides the red-black tree > > > macros. > > > > Now accepting patches! > > You might want to have a look at fefe's research > before you take the OpenBSD way. > > http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ > > aha > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 23:06:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775C416A4C1 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B6743FDD for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:06:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9N66et3045714; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:06:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9N66doc045711; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:06:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:06:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <2074.1066683948@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20031022215722.M22060@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <2074.1066683948@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modified files for: process checkpoint restore facility now in DragonFly BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:06:41 -0000 > You seem to have mistaken hackers@freebsd.org for hackers@dragonflybsd.org. Thank you Poul for taking the time to correct me. Although checkpointing was a specifically requested feature for FreeBSD, it was, given the circumstances, an unforgivable error for me to announce it on a FreeBSD list. The module was implemented in a fork of the code base and hence is clearly irrelevant. Particularly when contrasted with fascinating discussions about bikesheds, bringing up a mundane facility for serializing and deserializing process state truly only adds to the noise on the list. > Please don't make this mistake again. Once again my sincerest apologies. I'm flattered that someone who has made such fundamental contributions to the state of the art in FreeBSD as phkmalloc and the beerware license would condescend to correct me. I was so ashamed of myself for being so oblivious as to think that FreeBSD might still bear some relevance to DragonFly that I unsubscribed from all of the FreeBSD mailing lists, thus ensuring that I never make the same mistake again. I've CC'ed the list so that all might read my apology and know of your kindness in gently informing me off-list. I'm certain that your keen insights and low-key charisma, as demonstrated by this thoughtful e-mail, will help to ensure the continued growth of FreeBSD as a dynamic thriving community. Thanks. -Kip From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 23:38:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B162216A4B3; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carbon.berkeley.netdot.net (carbon.berkeley.netdot.net [216.27.190.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9C643F75; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@netdot.net) Received: by carbon.berkeley.netdot.net (Postfix, from userid 101) id 4174A17329; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:42:06 -0700 From: Nicholas Esborn To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031023064206.GA47873@carbon.berkeley.netdot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Serve NFS from within a jail? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:38:44 -0000 Hello, I'm hoping to configure NFS service within a jail on a 5.1-CURRENT box. The host envjailedment isn't running any services except ssh, and the jail(8) man page leads me to believe the author thought NFS service would work from within a jail. However, neither mountd nor nfsd are happy running inside the jail: Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: can't delete exports for /: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: can't delete exports for /tmp: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: can't delete exports for /usr: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: can't delete exports for /var: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: can't delete exports for /foo: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: can't change attributes for /foo/share Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed mountd[1249]: bad exports list line /foo/share -maproot Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed nfsd[1255]: nfssvc: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed nfsd[1256]: nfssvc: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed nfsd[1257]: nfssvc: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed nfsd[1254]: nfssvc: Operation not permitted Oct 22 23:32:06 jailed nfsd[1252]: can't Add UDP socket Any suggestions? Thanks, -nick From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 01:43:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CF716A4B3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D428F43F75; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.homeunix.net (66-91-236-204.san.rr.com [66.91.236.204]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C548C9BE92; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:39:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:43:32 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> cc: Kip Macy Subject: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:43:37 -0000 In a recent message on this list, Poul-Henning Kamp took Kip Macy to task for posting DragonFlyBSD research and development results here, writing "You seem to have mistaken hackers@freebsd.org for hackers@dragonflybsd.org. Please don't make this mistake again." Please note that Poul-Henning Kamp is NOT a moderator for this mail list, nor an official of the FreeBSD Project in any way. The above is simply Poul-Henning's opinion; you may attach whatever validity to that you wish. Kip Macy, other DragonFlyBSD developers, and anyone else wishing to contribute are invited to join and participate in the open FreeBSD mail lists, sharing code, design information, research and test results, etc. according to their own will. We welcome input from everyone, including constructive criticism of weaknesses or flaws in FreeBSD. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 04:23:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA48B16A4BF for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paladin.fortunaty.net (fortunaty.net [217.160.129.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CB9043F75 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:23:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ah@paladin.fortunaty.net) Received: (qmail 30728 invoked by uid 501); 23 Oct 2003 11:23:53 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:23:53 +0200 From: Andy To: Q Message-ID: <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> Mail-Followup-To: Q , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> X-Addicted: yeah X-License: BSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:23:57 -0000 On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:36:48AM +1000, Q wrote: > This is interesting, and demonstrates what I have been seeing, however > OpenBSD obviously has other issues with it's mmap implementation > entirely separate from this discussion. Indeed, but also note the OpenBSD graph¹ is actually two graphs, one O(n) and One O(1). aha ¹ http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/mmap.png From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 04:45:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDE716A4B3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from memphis.mephi.ru (memphis.mephi.ru [194.67.67.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97BEB43FD7; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:45:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from timon@memphis.mephi.ru) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (ppp8-68.pppoe.mtu-net.ru [81.195.8.68]) (authenticated bits=0) by memphis.mephi.ru (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9NBj5n4025323; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:45:15 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from timon@memphis.mephi.ru) From: "Artem 'Zazoobr' Ignatjev" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1066909520.796.12.camel@timon.nist> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:45:20 +0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: msdosfs & am-utils X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:45:42 -0000 Just noticed that amd no longer can handle pcfs mounts. Here is the map: /defaults fs:="${autodir}/${host}/${key}/" * opts:=rw,grpid,resvport,vers=3,proto=udp,nosuid,nodev floppy type:=pcfs;dev:=/dev/fd0;opts:=rw photo type:=pcfs;dev:=/dev/da0s1;opts:=rw Neither floppy, nor photo can be mounted with amd, it gots "EFAULT" from mount syscall. sources are from Oct, 16 and I haven't seen any commits to both amd or FreeBSD timon.nist 5.1-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT #0: Fri Oct 17 17:16:27 MSD 2003 root@timon.nist:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/TIMON i386 (cvsup from Oct, 16) I want to do some debugging, but dunno where to start -- Artem 'Zazoobr' Ignatjev From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 04:55:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F129E16A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2ED9443F93 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q_dolan@yahoo.com.au) Received: from q.onthenet.com.au (HELO ?192.168.100.154?) (q?dolan@203.10.89.214 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 11:55:33 -0000 From: Q To: Andy In-Reply-To: <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> Message-Id: <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:55:21 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:55:43 -0000 I beg to differ. It might show linear growth, but the OpenBSD graph is definitely not O(n). Seeya...Q On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 21:23, Andy wrote: > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:36:48AM +1000, Q wrote: > > This is interesting, and demonstrates what I have been seeing, however > > OpenBSD obviously has other issues with it's mmap implementation > > entirely separate from this discussion. > > Indeed, but also note the OpenBSD graph¹ > is actually two graphs, one O(n) and One O(1). > > aha > > ¹ http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/mmap.png From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 06:02:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8667316A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.stack.nl (vaak.stack.nl [131.155.140.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12E043F75 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcolz@stack.nl) Received: by mailhost.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 53E7F1F018; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:02:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from turtle.stack.nl (turtle.stack.nl [2001:610:1108:5010:2e0:81ff:fe22:51d8]) by mailhost.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C74E1F006; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:02:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by turtle.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 333) id 3F5921CC71; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:02:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:02:30 +0200 From: Marc Olzheim To: Q Message-ID: <20031023130230.GA2916@stack.nl> References: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD turtle.stack.nl 5.1-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-URL: http://www.stack.nl/~marcolz/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on vaak.stack.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:02:41 -0000 On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:55:21PM +1000, Q wrote: > I beg to differ. It might show linear growth, but the OpenBSD graph is > definitely not O(n). Err... How would you define O(n) then ? Zlo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 06:13:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3D516A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.stack.nl (vaak.stack.nl [131.155.140.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C69343FE0 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcolz@stack.nl) Received: by mailhost.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 346571F006; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from turtle.stack.nl (turtle.stack.nl [2001:610:1108:5010:2e0:81ff:fe22:51d8]) by mailhost.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947671F001; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: by turtle.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 333) id 782D21CC71; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:53 +0200 From: Marc Olzheim To: Q Message-ID: <20031023131353.GA3111@stack.nl> References: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD turtle.stack.nl 5.1-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-URL: http://www.stack.nl/~marcolz/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on vaak.stack.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:13:56 -0000 On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:55:21PM +1000, Q wrote: > I beg to differ. It might show linear growth, but the OpenBSD graph is > definitely not O(n). Hmm, it looks like that when it hits the next threshold, it's O(n), but O(1) otherwise. But contrary to the blurry Linux 2.4 fork() graph, the thresholds seem set at fixed numbers of pages. Zlo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 06:48:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3247C16A4B3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 581CF43FA3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:48:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 23 Oct 2003 14:48:44 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:48:42 +0100 From: David Malone To: Nicholas Esborn Message-ID: <20031023134842.GA60356@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20031023064206.GA47873@carbon.berkeley.netdot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031023064206.GA47873@carbon.berkeley.netdot.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serve NFS from within a jail? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:48:47 -0000 On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:42:06PM -0700, Nicholas Esborn wrote: > However, neither mountd nor nfsd are happy running inside the jail: NFS is one of those things that is largely implemented as a service in the kernel, and so doesn't really fit in with the way jail's work. If you want to run an NFS server from a jail, you'd probably need a userland NFS server. I don't know for certain, but cfs from ports might be able to do this. David. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 08:40:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADCA16A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genius.tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3FE43FA3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:40:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@genius.tao.org.uk) Received: by genius.tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 7EE4A42BF; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:40:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:40:41 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031023154041.GA1344@genius.tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: ktrace/kdump question: intrepretting calls. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:40:48 -0000 --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying to work out what a particular application does by using ktrace and kdump. At the relevant point in the kdump it says: 1080 Application CALL #91(0x28d28000,0x4000) 1080 Application RET #91 0 How do I go about working out what this call means? I guess that it's to a library somewhere, but I'm not sure what. I'd like to ktrace that too if possible. Joe --=20 Josef Karthauser (joe@tao.org.uk) http://www.josef-k.net/ FreeBSD (cvs meister, admin and hacker) http://www.uk.FreeBSD.org/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An eclectic mix of fact an= d theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAj+X9ngACgkQXVIcjOaxUBZXZgCfXvV7s6wSb5LAkNIGdqjNZJ9h hqEAn0f1ired64okwWEQWFS4XHxbHtSd =Ox5x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 08:53:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A765816A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D1D6D43FBF for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from q_dolan@yahoo.com.au) Received: from q.onthenet.com.au (HELO ?192.168.100.154?) (q?dolan@203.10.89.214 with plain) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2003 15:53:04 -0000 From: Q To: Marc Olzheim In-Reply-To: <20031023130230.GA2916@stack.nl> References: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023130230.GA2916@stack.nl> Message-Id: <1066924375.58538.161.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:52:55 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:53:05 -0000 Good point, maybe I should have said "increasing" growth instead of "linear" ;) Seeya...Q On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 23:02, Marc Olzheim wrote: > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 09:55:21PM +1000, Q wrote: > > I beg to differ. It might show linear growth, but the OpenBSD graph is > > definitely not O(n). > > Err... How would you define O(n) then ? > > Zlo > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 09:09:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2344716A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pony1pub.arc.nasa.gov (pony1pub.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.31.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB4343F93 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jtoung@arc.nasa.gov) Received: from nren-194.arc.nasa.gov ([128.102.196.194] verified) by pony1pub.arc.nasa.gov (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 4384139 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:00 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Jerry Toung To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:08:55 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200310230908.55464.jtoung@arc.nasa.gov> Subject: pseudo-driver (*pr_input) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jtoung@arc.nasa.gov List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:09:05 -0000 Good morning hackers, I am writing a pseudo driver for a routing protocol that insert its heade= r=20 after the ip header. I call it TTT. On the output after ip_output, for=20 packets destined to a particular subnet I go through the ttt0 virtual=20 interface calling ttt_output. In ttt_input all I have is a printf statement to make sure that it is bei= ng=20 called. tcpdump on the physical interface shows those packets getting in = as a=20 result of a ping from 243.10.1.1, but I don't see in the /var/log/message= s=20 what should be printed by ttt_input. I use 2 machines connected back to b= ack=20 with a crossover cable. tcpdump: listening on fxp0 16:11:15.398205 243.10.1.1 > 243.10.1.2: ip-proto-110 91 16:11:16.408227 243.10.1.1 > 243.10.1.2: ip-proto-110 91 =2E........................................ in if_ttt.c I have this to support calls to ttt_input extern struct domain inetdomain; static const struct protosw in_ttt_protosw =3D { SOCK_RAW, &inetdomain, IPPROTO_TTT, PR_ATOMIC|PR_ADDR,=20 (pr_input_t*)ttt_input, (pr_output_t*)rip_output, rip_ctlinput,=20 rip_ctloutput, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, &rip_usrreqs, }; and in=20 static int ttt_clone_create(struct if_clone *ifc, int unit)=20 { =2E........... sc->encap_cookie =3D encap_attach_func(AF_INET, IPPROTO_TTT, ttt_encapcheck, &in_ttt_protosw, sc); =2E........... } sorry for the long post, but if somebody can tell me what I am missing I'= ll=20 appreciate. thank you, Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 09:33:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C7016A4C3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CEA843FD7; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 23 Oct 2003 17:33:10 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:33:09 +0100 From: David Malone To: Josef Karthauser , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031023163309.GA92535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20031023154041.GA1344@genius.tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031023154041.GA1344@genius.tao.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie Subject: Re: ktrace/kdump question: intrepretting calls. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:33:12 -0000 On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 04:40:41PM +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: > I'm trying to work out what a particular application does by using > ktrace and kdump. At the relevant point in the kdump it says: > > 1080 Application CALL #91(0x28d28000,0x4000) > 1080 Application RET #91 0 > > How do I go about working out what this call means? I guess that it's > to a library somewhere, but I'm not sure what. I'd like to ktrace that > too if possible. Is it a linux binary? The #91 means syscall 91 AFAIK, which isn't in use on -stable or -current. However Linux syscall #91 is munmap, which looks like a plausable candidate given the arguments. Try installing the linux_kdump port... David. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 14:10:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088E216A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genius.tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A5A43F85 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@genius.tao.org.uk) Received: by genius.tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 7A09642E4; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:10:28 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:10:28 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: David Malone Message-ID: <20031023211028.GA1525@genius.tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , David Malone , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <20031023154041.GA1344@genius.tao.org.uk> <20031023163309.GA92535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031023163309.GA92535@walton.maths.tcd.ie> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ktrace/kdump question: intrepretting calls. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:10:31 -0000 --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 05:33:09PM +0100, David Malone wrote: > On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 04:40:41PM +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > I'm trying to work out what a particular application does by using > > ktrace and kdump. At the relevant point in the kdump it says: > >=20 > > 1080 Application CALL #91(0x28d28000,0x4000) > > 1080 Application RET #91 0 > >=20 > > How do I go about working out what this call means? I guess that it's > > to a library somewhere, but I'm not sure what. I'd like to ktrace that > > too if possible. >=20 > Is it a linux binary? The #91 means syscall 91 AFAIK, which isn't > in use on -stable or -current. However Linux syscall #91 is munmap, > which looks like a plausable candidate given the arguments. Try > installing the linux_kdump port... >=20 Thanks. I'll take a look. Joe --=20 Josef Karthauser (joe@tao.org.uk) http://www.josef-k.net/ FreeBSD (cvs meister, admin and hacker) http://www.uk.FreeBSD.org/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An eclectic mix of fact an= d theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAj+YQ8QACgkQXVIcjOaxUBYEUACdHxG7iH8DTVSKEdtiEGAD+RQx jV0An3wUv8sawBaBmyAdgEU0DfAOs2A3 =H9dE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 16:24:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE59F16A4B3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.20.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7540443F3F; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:24:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au) Received: from elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au (elkanah.its.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.18.41])h9NNOP22023266; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:24:26 +1000 (EST) From: JacobRhoden Organization: University of Melbourne To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:24:25 +1000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310240924.25738.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Subject: 5.1 mfsroot floppy broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:24:29 -0000 Hi, I have been trying to get an install of 5.1 using the floppies made off the 5.1 ISO, and it seems they are broken. Has anyone else successfully achieved an install using the boot disks? Regards - Jacob Further Details: After booting, custom install, and then selecting cdrom/dos partion/floppies as the media, you receive the following error: Error mounting /dev/xxx on /dist: No such file for directory (2) (Just replace xxx with the media you have selected) _______________________________ JacobRhoden -- http://rhoden.id.au/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 19:27:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23CE16A4B3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B165243FA3; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C70F66DF2; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2CF2DB81; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:27:26 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: JacobRhoden Message-ID: <20031024022725.GA86619@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200310240924.25738.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="azLHFNyN32YCQGCU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310240924.25738.jrhoden@unimelb.edu.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: re@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 5.1 mfsroot floppy broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 02:27:27 -0000 --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 09:24:25AM +1000, JacobRhoden wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I have been trying to get an install of 5.1 using the floppies made off t= he=20 > 5.1 ISO, and it seems they are broken. Has anyone else successfully achie= ved=20 > an install using the boot disks? >=20 > Regards > - Jacob >=20 > Further Details: > After booting, custom install, and then selecting cdrom/dos > partion/floppies as the media, you receive the following error: >=20 > Error mounting /dev/xxx on /dist: No such file for directory (2) > =20 > (Just replace xxx with the media you have selected) I've seen something like this as well../dist didn't exist in the MFS root, but I think /mnt did. I wasn't sure if it was my fault somehow, so I didn't follow it up. This was probably with the 5.1-RELEASE fixit CD, which is the only install media I've used in the past few months. Kris --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/mI4NWry0BWjoQKURAiHnAJ0Zyd6Pu3p+NGxrrHdpDb3SNDEu7gCfVOlQ 0PMBJ678elpA5WE0MiroFCc= =e2Hy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 04:27:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA4816A4B3 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B1643F85 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1])h9OBRk4B051133 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:27:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from niobe (postfix@niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) h9OBRfn32550 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:27:41 +0200 Received: by niobe (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 54C91A91; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:27:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:27:40 +0200 From: Michel TALON To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031024112740.GA20599@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Antivirus: scanned by sophie at shiva.jussieu.fr Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:27:49 -0000 > Yes, it would appear this is a legacy thing that existed in the original > 1994 import of the BSD 4.4 Lite source. Both FreeBSD and NetBSD still > use this technique, but OpenBSD changed to using Red-Black trees back in > Feb 2002. What is more interesting is to look at the actual benchmark results in http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ in particular the section about mmap benchmarks, the only one where OpenBSD shines. However as soon as touching pages is benchmarked OpenBSD fails very much. -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 05:36:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A13C16A4B3 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ogi.bezeqint.net (ogi.bezeqint.net [192.115.106.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBDD343F3F for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nimrod-me@bezeqint.net) Received: from localhost.bsd.net.il (bzq-80-55-42.red.bezeqint.net [82.80.55.42])ESMTP id 00DFE8FD1 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:22:26 +0200 (IST) Received: from localhost.bsd.net.il (nimrodm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9OCY4hY001039 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:34:04 +0200 (IST) (envelope-from nimrodm@localhost.bsd.net.il) Received: (from nimrodm@localhost) by localhost.bsd.net.il (8.12.9p2/8.12.6/Submit) id h9OCY4lS001038 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:34:04 +0200 (IST) From: Nimrod Mesika Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:34:04 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031024123404.GA969@localhost.bsd.net.il> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20031024112740.GA20599@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031024112740.GA20599@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:36:30 -0000 On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 01:27:40PM +0200, Michel TALON wrote: > What is more interesting is to look at the actual benchmark results in Take a look at the following paper: Juan E. Navarro and Alan Cox. Mitosis: a high performance, scalable virtual memory system. Technical report TTR01-378, CS Dept., Rice University, April 2001. http://www.cs.rice.edu/~jnavarro/papers/TR01-378.ps Seems like FreeBSD performs rather well even with the inefficient linked list structure. -- Nimrod. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 06:44:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9530416A4B3 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (smtpproxy1.mitre.org [192.160.51.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A050143FE0 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:44:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ODipbY016223; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB2 (mailhub2.mitre.org [129.83.221.18]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9ODioLJ007733; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mm112324-2k.mitre.org (128.29.3.41) by mailhub2.mitre.org with SMTP id 126283; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:44:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3F992CCE.2070608@mitre.org> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:44:46 -0400 From: Jason Andresen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Q References: <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022144043.GI55642@dan.emsphone.com> <20031022155058.GE3640@saboteur.dek.spc.org> <20031022204200.GC14012@splashground.de> <1066865808.42673.28.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023112353.GD14012@splashground.de> <1066910120.58538.15.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031023130230.GA2916@stack.nl> <1066924375.58538.161.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> In-Reply-To: <1066924375.58538.161.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Marc Olzheim cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:44:56 -0000 Q wrote: > Good point, maybe I should have said "increasing" growth instead of > "linear" ;) It looked linear to me, however the constant factor was much smaller. In the real world, that is often good enough. The Linux 2.6 kernel looks like it has a constant time algorithm. -- \ |_ _|__ __|_ \ __| Jason Andresen jandrese@mitre.org |\/ | | | / _| Network and Distributed Systems Engineer _| _|___| _| _|_\___| Office: 703-883-7755 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 12:10:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED6716A4B3 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubo.vslib.cz (bubo.vslib.cz [147.230.16.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E9843F93 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.vana@vslib.cz) Received: from vanice.koleje.vslib.cz (unknown [147.230.158.35]) by bubo.vslib.cz (Postfix) with SMTP id C836ECC1E0 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:10:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:11:41 +0200 From: Martin =?ISO-8859-2?Q?V=E1=F2a?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> Organization: TUL X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: two soundcards and realplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:10:30 -0000 Hi, I use two soundcards on my Freebsd5.1 box - Sb Live and SB AWE64, FreeBSD somehow figured out that Live is better than Awe and made it "primary" soundcard. The reason I have AWE still in computer, is it's amplyfing skills /2x4W/ so I don't need aditional amplyfier. With Xmms it's fine, I just changed confile and enjoy music. But I can't figure out how to swap soundcards in RealPlayer and Mplayer. Is there a way how to change it system wide? Thank you Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 14:12:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D02916A4B3 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.Stanford.EDU (smtp6.Stanford.EDU [171.67.16.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACEE943FF7 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedu@stanford.edu) Received: from saga0.Stanford.EDU (saga0.Stanford.EDU [171.64.15.130]) by smtp6.Stanford.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9OLBrNs021678; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:11:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Unangst To: Michel TALON In-Reply-To: <20031024112740.GA20599@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:12:02 -0000 On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Michel TALON wrote: > What is more interesting is to look at the actual benchmark results in > http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ > in particular the section about mmap benchmarks, the only one where > OpenBSD shines. However as soon as touching pages is benchmarked > OpenBSD fails very much. look closer. openbsd's "touch page" times are identical to what you'd expect a disk access to be. the pages aren't cached, they're read from disk. so compared to systems that don't read from disk, it looks pretty bad. a 5 line patch to fix the benchmark so that the file actually is cached on openbsd results in performance much in line with freebsd/linux. -- "People have criticized me because my security detail is larger than the president's. But you must ask yourself: are there more people who want to kill me than who want to kill the president? I can assure you there are." - M. Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 24 20:07:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE4D16A4B3 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doom.homeunix.org (8-183.dialup.comset.net [213.172.8.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F5D43FD7 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tiamat@comset.net) Received: from doom.homeunix.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by doom.homeunix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9P35kTb002852; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:06:15 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from igor@doom.homeunix.org) Received: (from igor@localhost) by doom.homeunix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9P358uf002851; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:05:08 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from igor) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:05:08 +0400 From: Igor Pokrovsky To: Martin V??a Message-ID: <20031025030508.GA2812@doom.homeunix.org> Mail-Followup-To: Martin V??a , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Accept-Language: ru cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: two soundcards and realplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:07:47 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 09:11:41PM +0200, Martin V??a wrote: > Hi, > I use two soundcards on my Freebsd5.1 box - Sb Live and SB AWE64, FreeBSD somehow figured out that > Live is better than Awe and made it "primary" soundcard. The reason I have AWE still in computer, is > it's amplyfing skills /2x4W/ so I don't need aditional amplyfier. With Xmms it's fine, I just changed > confile and enjoy music. But I can't figure out how to swap soundcards in RealPlayer and Mplayer. > Is there a way how to change it system wide? > Thank you > Martin In mplayer you can select output device like this: ao=oss:/dev/dsp1 -ip -- Fuch's Warning: If you actually look like your passport photo, you aren't well enough to travel. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 04:26:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5787716A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl (amsfep13-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A7C43F93 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:26:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20031025112650.MXXZ4557.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:26:50 +0200 Message-ID: <3F9A5DF1.6030603@sitetronics.com> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:26:41 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_V=E1=F2a?= References: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> In-Reply-To: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: two soundcards and realplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:26:53 -0000 Martin Ván(a wrote: >Hi, >I use two soundcards on my Freebsd5.1 box - Sb Live and SB AWE64, FreeBSD somehow figured out that >Live is better than Awe and made it "primary" soundcard. The reason I have AWE still in computer, is >it's amplyfing skills /2x4W/ so I don't need aditional amplyfier. With Xmms it's fine, I just changed >confile and enjoy music. But I can't figure out how to swap soundcards in RealPlayer and Mplayer. >Is there a way how to change it system wide? >Thank you >Martin > > Well, I suppose you could do something like mv /dev/dsp0 /dev/dsp.tmp && mv /dev/dsp1 /dev/dsp0 && mv /dev/dsp.tmp /dev/dsp1 Not sure how terribly well that'd work (and it's a horrendous hack), though you can select the output device in mplayer with the ao: option. I don't know anything about RealPlayer, so I wouldn't be able to help you there. --Devon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 06:48:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E2316A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au (c211-30-75-229.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.30.75.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A8943FBF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au (localhost.c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) ESMTP id h9PDludb075930; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:47:56 +1000 (EST) peter@server.c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Received: (from peter@localhost) (8.12.9p1/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PDluFi075929; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:47:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:47:56 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Martin V??a Message-ID: <20031025134756.GA75886@server.c211-28-27-130.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au> References: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> <3F9A5DF1.6030603@sitetronics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F9A5DF1.6030603@sitetronics.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: two soundcards and realplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:48:01 -0000 Martin V?n(a wrote: >I use two soundcards on my Freebsd5.1 box - Sb Live and SB AWE64, FreeBSD >somehow figured out that >Live is better than Awe and made it "primary" soundcard. ... > But I can't figure out how to swap soundcards in The cards are numbered in the order in which they're detected. Assuming both are physical cards, try swapping their slots. Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 07:20:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1AE16A4B3; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7AA43FCB; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 07:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Kris@kirok.fsnet.co.uk) Received: from modem-2580.wolf.dialup.pol.co.uk ([81.76.138.20] helo=kirok.fsnet.co.uk) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ADPGn-0004b7-RA; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:19:58 +0100 Message-ID: <3F9A868C.1030004@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:19:56 +0100 From: Kris Davidson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-firewire@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Boot Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:20:03 -0000 This may be a complete newbie question, or it may have been answered before but I would appreciate any help or input that can be provided. I have a Sony VAIO PCG-GRZ615M laptop which I'm trying to install FreeBSD on. I boot from the CD and then try selecting each one of the 7 boot options however each option I pick returns the below and then the system reboots, as such I can not start the installation. ---------------------------------------------- fwohci0: Link S100, max_rec 2 bytes fwohci0: max_rec2 -> 512 fwohci0: bus_OPT 0x0 -> 0xf8008000 fwohci0: fwohci_set_intr: 1 firewire : on fwohci0 fatal trap 12: page fault while in Kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x2c fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8 :0xc02e5a50 Stack pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c4 frame pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c8 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupte enabled, resume, IOPL=0 current process = 0 (swapper) trap number = 12 Panic: Page fault ---------------------------------------------- I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this or provide advice. Cheers. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 08:11:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B038416A4B3; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.205.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D00143F93; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) Received: from is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [127.0.0.1]) by is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FA72181DC; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:11:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from mailhosting.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (IDENT:mirapoint@mailhosting.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.205.3]) h9PFB2Ss031060; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:11:02 +0900 Received: from ett.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp (ett.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.135.3])3.3.5-GR) with ESMTP id ALD56250; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:11:01 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:09:37 +0900 Message-ID: From: Hidetoshi Shimokawa To: Kris Davidson In-Reply-To: <3F9A868C.1030004@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> References: <3F9A868C.1030004@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.11.0 (Wonderwall) REMI/1.14.3 (Matsudai) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 MULE XEmacs/21.4 (patch 8) (Honest Recruiter) (i386--freebsd) X-Face: OE([KxWyJI0r[R~S/>7ia}SJ)i%a,$-9%7{*yihQk|]gl}2p#"oXmX/fT}Bn7: #j7i14gu$jgR\S*&C3R/pJX List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:11:08 -0000 Which version of FreeBSD are you trying to install? /\ Hidetoshi Shimokawa \/ simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp PGP public key: http://www.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~simokawa/pgp.html At Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:19:56 +0100, Kris Davidson wrote: > > This may be a complete newbie question, or it may have been answered > before but I would appreciate any help or input that can be provided. > > I have a Sony VAIO PCG-GRZ615M laptop which I'm trying to install > FreeBSD on. I boot from the CD and then try selecting each one of the 7 > boot options however each option I pick returns the below and then the > system reboots, as such I can not start the installation. > > ---------------------------------------------- > fwohci0: Link S100, max_rec 2 bytes > fwohci0: max_rec2 -> 512 > fwohci0: bus_OPT 0x0 -> 0xf8008000 > fwohci0: fwohci_set_intr: 1 > > firewire : on fwohci0 > fatal trap 12: page fault while in Kernel mode > > fault virtual address = 0x2c > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x8 :0xc02e5a50 > Stack pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c4 > frame pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c8 > code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > processor eflags = interrupte enabled, resume, IOPL=0 > current process = 0 (swapper) > trap number = 12 > > Panic: Page fault > ---------------------------------------------- > > I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this or provide advice. > > Cheers. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-firewire@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-firewire > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-firewire-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 08:32:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019CC16A4BF; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8958E43F93; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Kris@kirok.fsnet.co.uk) Received: from modem-2580.wolf.dialup.pol.co.uk ([81.76.138.20] helo=kirok.fsnet.co.uk) by cmailm5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ADQP3-0006oa-8L; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:32:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3F9A978E.5000303@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:32:30 +0100 From: Kris Davidson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hidetoshi Shimokawa References: <3F9A868C.1030004@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-firewire@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Boot Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:32:38 -0000 I'm trying to install 5.1 release and am in the process of downloading version 4.8 Hidetoshi Shimokawa wrote: > Which version of FreeBSD are you trying to install? > > /\ Hidetoshi Shimokawa > \/ simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp > PGP public key: http://www.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~simokawa/pgp.html > > At Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:19:56 +0100, > Kris Davidson wrote: > >>This may be a complete newbie question, or it may have been answered >>before but I would appreciate any help or input that can be provided. >> >>I have a Sony VAIO PCG-GRZ615M laptop which I'm trying to install >>FreeBSD on. I boot from the CD and then try selecting each one of the 7 >>boot options however each option I pick returns the below and then the >>system reboots, as such I can not start the installation. >> >>---------------------------------------------- >>fwohci0: Link S100, max_rec 2 bytes >>fwohci0: max_rec2 -> 512 >>fwohci0: bus_OPT 0x0 -> 0xf8008000 >>fwohci0: fwohci_set_intr: 1 >> >>firewire : on fwohci0 >>fatal trap 12: page fault while in Kernel mode >> >>fault virtual address = 0x2c >>fault code = supervisor read, page not present >>instruction pointer = 0x8 :0xc02e5a50 >>Stack pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c4 >>frame pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c8 >>code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b >> = DPL0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >>processor eflags = interrupte enabled, resume, IOPL=0 >>current process = 0 (swapper) >>trap number = 12 >> >>Panic: Page fault >>---------------------------------------------- >> >>I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this or provide advice. >> >>Cheers. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>freebsd-firewire@freebsd.org mailing list >>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-firewire >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-firewire-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 08:52:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E5516A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tacorp.net (mail.tacorp.net [208.20.58.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFBB43FA3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from raistlin@tacorp.net) Received: from mail.tacorp.net (raistlin@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.tacorp.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PFwBfQ000698 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:58:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from raistlin@tacorp.net) Received: from localhost (raistlin@localhost)h9PFwAJY000695 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:58:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.tacorp.net: raistlin owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:58:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jason Slagle To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031025115710.Q647@mail.tacorp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: PCAP Open BPF R/W? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:52:32 -0000 Could someone consider applying the following to the in tree pcap? It makes it possible to write to the pcap fd to send packets out the interface. Some simulators expect this ability to properly do networking.. Jason --- pcap-bpf.c.old Sat Oct 25 11:56:32 2003 +++ pcap-bpf.c Sat Oct 25 11:49:10 2003 @@ -185,7 +185,7 @@ */ do { (void)snprintf(device, sizeof(device), "/dev/bpf%d", n++); - fd = open(device, O_RDONLY); + fd = open(device, O_RDWR); } while (fd < 0 && errno == EBUSY); /* -- Jason Slagle - CCNP - CCDP /"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign . X - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . / \ - NO Word docs in e-mail . From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 09:00:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992F616A4B3; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.205.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F8643F75; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:00:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) Received: from is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [127.0.0.1]) by is1.mh.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAFE2184FC; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:00:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from mailhosting.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (IDENT:mirapoint@mailhosting.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.205.3]) h9PG0KSs003077; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:00:20 +0900 Received: from ett.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp (ett.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.135.3])3.3.5-GR) with ESMTP id ALD57604; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:00:19 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:58:55 +0900 Message-ID: From: Hidetoshi Shimokawa To: Kris Davidson In-Reply-To: <3F9A978E.5000303@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> References: <3F9A868C.1030004@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> <3F9A978E.5000303@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.11.0 (Wonderwall) REMI/1.14.3 (Matsudai) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 MULE XEmacs/21.4 (patch 8) (Honest Recruiter) (i386--freebsd) X-Face: OE([KxWyJI0r[R~S/>7ia}SJ)i%a,$-9%7{*yihQk|]gl}2p#"oXmX/fT}Bn7: #j7i14gu$jgR\S*&C3R/pJX List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:00:23 -0000 It seems that fwohci registers are not mapped correctly. If your BIOS has a option for `PnP OS', try to set it to 'no'. /\ Hidetoshi Shimokawa \/ simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp PGP public key: http://www.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~simokawa/pgp.html At Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:32:30 +0100, Kris Davidson wrote: > > I'm trying to install 5.1 release and am in the process of downloading > version 4.8 > > Hidetoshi Shimokawa wrote: > > Which version of FreeBSD are you trying to install? > > > > /\ Hidetoshi Shimokawa > > \/ simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp > > PGP public key: http://www.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~simokawa/pgp.html > > > > At Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:19:56 +0100, > > Kris Davidson wrote: > > > >>This may be a complete newbie question, or it may have been answered > >>before but I would appreciate any help or input that can be provided. > >> > >>I have a Sony VAIO PCG-GRZ615M laptop which I'm trying to install > >>FreeBSD on. I boot from the CD and then try selecting each one of the 7 > >>boot options however each option I pick returns the below and then the > >>system reboots, as such I can not start the installation. > >> > >>---------------------------------------------- > >>fwohci0: Link S100, max_rec 2 bytes > >>fwohci0: max_rec2 -> 512 > >>fwohci0: bus_OPT 0x0 -> 0xf8008000 > >>fwohci0: fwohci_set_intr: 1 > >> > >>firewire : on fwohci0 > >>fatal trap 12: page fault while in Kernel mode > >> > >>fault virtual address = 0x2c > >>fault code = supervisor read, page not present > >>instruction pointer = 0x8 :0xc02e5a50 > >>Stack pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c4 > >>frame pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c8 > >>code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > >> = DPL0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > >>processor eflags = interrupte enabled, resume, IOPL=0 > >>current process = 0 (swapper) > >>trap number = 12 > >> > >>Panic: Page fault > >>---------------------------------------------- > >> > >>I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this or provide advice. > >> > >>Cheers. > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>freebsd-firewire@freebsd.org mailing list > >>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-firewire > >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-firewire-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 10:31:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB04616A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (hak.cnd.mcgill.ca [132.216.11.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0575643F85 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mat@hak.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: from hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9PHUAk4086312; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:30:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mat@hak.cnd.mcgill.ca) Received: (from mat@localhost) by hak.cnd.mcgill.ca (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h9PHUAjq086311; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:30:10 -0400 From: Mathew Kanner To: Martin V??a Message-ID: <20031025173009.GI31273@cnd.mcgill.ca> References: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025211141.16475ea7.martin.vana@vslib.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: I speak for myself, operating in Montreal, CANADA X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: two soundcards and realplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:31:53 -0000 On Oct 25, Martin V??a wrote: > Hi, > I use two soundcards on my Freebsd5.1 box - Sb Live and SB AWE64, FreeBSD somehow figured out that > Live is better than Awe and made it "primary" soundcard. The reason I have AWE still in computer, is > it's amplyfing skills /2x4W/ so I don't need aditional amplyfier. With Xmms it's fine, I just changed > confile and enjoy music. But I can't figure out how to swap soundcards in RealPlayer and Mplayer. > Is there a way how to change it system wide? FreeBSD current, sysctl hw.snd.unit, the default unit used by /dev/dsp. Realplayer also checks an enviroment variable AUDIO (which defaults to /dev/dsp), so in bach you could, export AUDIO=/dev/dsp1.0 --Mat -- (on the United States) Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and eventempered the beast, one is affected by every twitch and grunt. - Pierre Elliott Trudeau From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 10:49:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F5116A4B3; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7872C43FD7; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:49:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Kris@kirok.fsnet.co.uk) Received: from modem-2015.tiger.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.215.223] helo=kirok.fsnet.co.uk) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ADSXQ-00064l-3P; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:49:20 +0100 Message-ID: <3F9AB79F.3030800@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:49:19 +0100 From: Kris Davidson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hidetoshi Shimokawa , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-firewire@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <3F9A868C.1030004@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> <3F9A978E.5000303@kirok.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Boot Problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:49:25 -0000 Okay I've checked my BIOS. I'm using Phoenix BIOS Setup version 4.0 with the bwlo versions BIOS Version: R216B1 EC BIOS Version: R216B1 Video BIOS Version: BOAM7_12 I can't seem to find the option specified below or something similar. Hidetoshi Shimokawa wrote: > It seems that fwohci registers are not mapped correctly. > If your BIOS has a option for `PnP OS', try to set it to 'no'. > > /\ Hidetoshi Shimokawa > \/ simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp > PGP public key: http://www.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~simokawa/pgp.html > > At Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:32:30 +0100, > Kris Davidson wrote: > >>I'm trying to install 5.1 release and am in the process of downloading >>version 4.8 >> >>Hidetoshi Shimokawa wrote: >> >>>Which version of FreeBSD are you trying to install? >>> >>>/\ Hidetoshi Shimokawa >>>\/ simokawa@sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp >>>PGP public key: http://www.sat.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~simokawa/pgp.html >>> >>>At Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:19:56 +0100, >>>Kris Davidson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>This may be a complete newbie question, or it may have been answered >>>>before but I would appreciate any help or input that can be provided. >>>> >>>>I have a Sony VAIO PCG-GRZ615M laptop which I'm trying to install >>>>FreeBSD on. I boot from the CD and then try selecting each one of the 7 >>>>boot options however each option I pick returns the below and then the >>>>system reboots, as such I can not start the installation. >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------- >>>>fwohci0: Link S100, max_rec 2 bytes >>>>fwohci0: max_rec2 -> 512 >>>>fwohci0: bus_OPT 0x0 -> 0xf8008000 >>>>fwohci0: fwohci_set_intr: 1 >>>> >>>>firewire : on fwohci0 >>>>fatal trap 12: page fault while in Kernel mode >>>> >>>>fault virtual address = 0x2c >>>>fault code = supervisor read, page not present >>>>instruction pointer = 0x8 :0xc02e5a50 >>>>Stack pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c4 >>>>frame pointer = 0x10 :0xc0b2e8c8 >>>>code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b >>>> = DPL0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >>>>processor eflags = interrupte enabled, resume, IOPL=0 >>>>current process = 0 (swapper) >>>>trap number = 12 >>>> >>>>Panic: Page fault >>>>---------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this or provide advice. >>>> >>>>Cheers. >>>> From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 10:59:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407AB16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail7.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B2F43FA3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (qmail 18154 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 17:59:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hydrogen.funkthat.com) ([69.17.45.168]) (envelope-sender ) by mail7.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Oct 2003 17:59:49 -0000 Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (shkjof@localhost.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1])h9PHxmDu082056; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h9PHxmSC082055; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:59:48 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Wes Peters , hackers@freebsd.org, Kip Macy References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html X-Etiquette: Did Kip just quote a private message to a public list? I didn't get phk's message. cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:59:51 -0000 Wes Peters wrote this message on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:43 -0700: > Kip Macy, other DragonFlyBSD developers, and anyone else wishing to > contribute are invited to join and participate in the open FreeBSD mail > lists, sharing code, design information, research and test results, etc. > according to their own will. We welcome input from everyone, including > constructive criticism of weaknesses or flaws in FreeBSD. And patches (against FreeBSD) are highly encouraged. It rarely helps to simply point out flaws (or showing how X OS runs soo much better than FreeBSD, why are you guys even running FreeBSD?) w/o showing code to fix it. Note: I am not speaking as an offical representive of FreeBSD, just as a developer who has too few time to try to code up a patch for code I haven't seen. And considering that DragonFlyBSD is based upon FreeBSD coming up with said patches should be trivial. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 11:05:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B87D16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20D4443F3F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 58704 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2003 18:05:04 -0000 Received: from niwun.pair.com (HELO localhost) (209.68.2.70) by relay.pair.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2003 18:05:04 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 209.68.2.70 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:05:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: John-Mark Gurney In-Reply-To: <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> Message-ID: <20031025130326.T2023@odysseus.silby.com> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:05:07 -0000 On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > And patches (against FreeBSD) are highly encouraged. It rarely helps > to simply point out flaws (or showing how X OS runs soo much better than > FreeBSD, why are you guys even running FreeBSD?) w/o showing code to fix it. > > -- > John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 Heck, I'd be happy if working benchmark programs were provided. A big chunk of figuring out bugs / performance problems always seems to be setting up the right conditions for the problem to be recreated. Mike "Silby" Silbersack From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 11:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F2C16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3253C43FAF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38ldvm8.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.254.200] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ADT6q-0003HY-00; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:25:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3F9AC007.DB48DE9D@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:25:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Unangst References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4ab35a33cc9c9ad1095f6c4182b6baae0387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Michel TALON Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:26:13 -0000 Ted Unangst wrote: > On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Michel TALON wrote: > > What is more interesting is to look at the actual benchmark results in > > http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ > > in particular the section about mmap benchmarks, the only one where > > OpenBSD shines. However as soon as touching pages is benchmarked > > OpenBSD fails very much. > > look closer. openbsd's "touch page" times are identical to what you'd > expect a disk access to be. the pages aren't cached, they're read from > disk. so compared to systems that don't read from disk, it looks pretty > bad. a 5 line patch to fix the benchmark so that the file actually is > cached on openbsd results in performance much in line with freebsd/linux. Why does the benchmark need to be "fixed" for OpenBSD and not for any other platform? My point here is that a benchmark measures what it measures, and if you don't like what it measures, making it measure something else is not a fix for the problem that it was originally intended to show. Microbenchmarks are pretty dumb, in general, because they are not representative of real world performance on a given fixed load, and are totally useless for predicting performance under a mixed load. That said, if this microbenchmark bothers you, fix OpenBSD. I know that Linux has some very good scores on LMBench, and that optimiziing the code to produce good numbers on that test set has pessimized performance in a number of areas under real world conditions. Unless there's an obvious win to be had without additional cost, it's best to take the numbers with a grain of salt. THAT said, it's probably a good idea for the other BSD's to use the read/black code from OpenBSD as a guid for their own code. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 11:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4913016A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883E843FB1 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38ldvm8.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.254.200] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ADTZg-0000aw-00; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:55:45 -0700 Message-ID: <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:54:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John-Mark Gurney References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a46faa7b7042ced7048ebd925288d8dcb8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:55:51 -0000 John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Wes Peters wrote this message on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:43 -0700: > > Kip Macy, other DragonFlyBSD developers, and anyone else wishing to > > contribute are invited to join and participate in the open FreeBSD mail > > lists, sharing code, design information, research and test results, etc. > > according to their own will. We welcome input from everyone, including > > constructive criticism of weaknesses or flaws in FreeBSD. > > And patches (against FreeBSD) are highly encouraged. It rarely helps > to simply point out flaws (or showing how X OS runs soo much better than > FreeBSD, why are you guys even running FreeBSD?) w/o showing code to fix it. > > Note: I am not speaking as an offical representive of FreeBSD, just as > a developer who has too few time to try to code up a patch for code I > haven't seen. And considering that DragonFlyBSD is based upon FreeBSD > coming up with said patches should be trivial. First off, I really appreciate the mmap() discussion which has taken place. Someone has done a lot of work to create benchmarks, which, while being microbenchmarks, are a hell of a lot more useful than most of their kind. Further, they've pointed out where to get code to get comparable results in FreeBSD, licensed under a two clause BSD license, which means the only issue facing anyone is one of trivial integration. Second, Kip Macy and Matt Dillon have done some excellent work on the checkpointing code. It's basically ELF-based, and requires only small changes to the exec to set up the process for being able to be checkpointed and restarted. Again, the license is a two clause BSD license, and again, the only work necessary to get this over to FreeBSD is integration. When someone offers you a gift, you don't jump down their throat with jack-boots on, complaining about how the gift is wrapped or what color it is; you shut the hell up about any complaints and say "Thank you". If the wrapping bothers you, well, you're going to remove it anyway. If the color bothers you, wait until they leave and paint the damn thing. If they come for a visit, they will be much more likely to be happy that you put it on display on the mantle than unhappy that you changed its color. Frankly, FreeBSD has too many cooks, and not enough bottle washers; this is a euphimism for saying that all anyone with a commit bit seems to want to do any more is write new code, and no one is willing to take on the integration and maintenance tasks. In Linux, this work is done by Linus, Alan Cox, and a couple of other people. People get commit bits so that they can do integration, and so that patches don't sit in bug databases for 6 years unintegrated. The problem with this imbalance, is that you seem to be unwilling to hire bottle washers, and people willing to wash bottles when there are no clean bottles left are never given any respect, and certainly not the level of respect accorded to cooks. You guys need to get your heads out, and give out some commit bits to some people willing to do the dirty work of integration of the code people are donating, and of closing out bug database entries where code is provided, and writing code that demonstrates the bug database problem and coming up with a fix and integrating *that*, where patches aren't provided. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 12:32:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC29316A4BF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (adsl-68-123-140-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.123.140.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E048E43F75 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:32:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PJVxen018296; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:31:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PJVwdj018295; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:31:58 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Q Message-ID: <20031025193158.GA18230@VARK.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Q , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:32:24 -0000 On Wed, Oct 22, 2003, Q wrote: > As an effort to get more acquainted with the FreeBSD kernel, I have been > looking through how mmap works. I don't yet understand how it all fits > together, or of the exact implications things may have in the wild, but > I have noticed under some synthetic conditions, ie. mmaping small > non-contiguous pages of a file, mmap allocation scales much more poorly > on FreeBSD than on OpenBSD and Linux 2.6. > > After investigating this further I have observed that vm_map_findspace() > traverses a linked list to find the next region (O(n) cost), whereas > OpenBSD and Linux 2.6 both use Red-Black trees for the same purpose > (O(log n) cost). Profiling the FreeBSD kernel appears to confirm this. > > Can someone comment on whether this is something that has been done > intentionally, or avoided in favour of some other yet to be implemented > solution? Or is it still on someones todo list. This is not, to my knowledge, on anyone's todo list. Using red-black trees for VM space allocation is likely to be slower for the common case where there aren't very many mappings in the first place, so it's not clear that this ``optimization'' should be a priority. I have never seen any real applications that are mmap-bound as a result of mmapping thousands of tiny regions. However, if some exist, I'm sure there would be interest in patches to improve scalability in this area. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 12:41:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2046316A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B6D43F75 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PJfabe075262; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PJfZP9000879; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h9PJfZZ7000878; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:35 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: Kip Macy cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:41:57 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:54:59AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Frankly, FreeBSD has too many cooks, and not enough bottle washers; > this is a euphimism for saying that all anyone with a commit bit > seems to want to do any more is write new code, and no one is > willing to take on the integration and maintenance tasks. The euphemism sucks, but the point is there. The problem here has nothing to do with commit bits. People who do the dirty work and do it in a way that demonstrates that they can do it unattended are given commit bits. The problem is that after a certain amount of dirty work someone either goes away or, if given a commit bit, moves on to more interesting things to waste time on. There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit because none of his work has been committed. You don't solve the problems by giving out commit bits. That will only accomplish that effort moves from prior to the commit to after the commit, adding repository pollution to the mix. It therefore makes the problem larger, not smaller. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 12:42:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F8816A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp3.Stanford.EDU (smtp3.Stanford.EDU [171.64.14.172]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C477B43F85 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedu@stanford.edu) Received: from saga10.Stanford.EDU (saga10.Stanford.EDU [171.64.15.140]) by smtp3.Stanford.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PJfu6U012457; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:41:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Unangst To: Terry Lambert In-Reply-To: <3F9AC007.DB48DE9D@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Michel TALON Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:42:03 -0000 On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Terry Lambert wrote: > Why does the benchmark need to be "fixed" for OpenBSD and not > for any other platform? openbsd does not have a unified cache between file system (pread) and vm (mmap) interfaces. in the real world, it's unusual to find an application that uses both interfaces for its data files. a good benchmark at least attempts to model real world application behavior. > My point here is that a benchmark measures what it measures, and > if you don't like what it measures, making it measure something > else is not a fix for the problem that it was originally intended > to show. then the benchmark author should explain what's going on. "touching a cached page" and "touching a page and reading it from disk" are different events. if the name of the graph were "reading an mmaped page after priming the disk cache with pread", then fine. but it's not. i'd like a benchmark to either attempt to accurately model (some slice of) real life or accurately explain what it is measuring. -- "I am clearly more popular than Reagan. I am in my third term. Where's Reagan? Gone after two! Defeated by George Bush and Michael Dukakis no less." - M. Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 12:46:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352D416A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (adsl-68-123-140-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.123.140.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1FA43F85 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PJkBen018446; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PJkAYw018445; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:46:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:46:10 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Sean Hamilton Message-ID: <20031025194610.GB18230@VARK.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Sean Hamilton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <005b01c398ed$87070080$0300000a@antalus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005b01c398ed$87070080$0300000a@antalus> cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Passthrough block device X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:46:38 -0000 On Wed, Oct 22, 2003, Sean Hamilton wrote: > Does FreeBSD support a device that will allow for the passing of all reads > and writes on it to a userland application? I wish to handle swapping > myself, preferably without any kernel hacking. > > What would happen if the kernel decided to swap out such a process? As far as I know, the only way to do that in FreeBSD is to implement a userland NFS server (e.g. amd(8)) on the local machine, have the kernel connect to localhost, and have your applications mmap() storage from that volume. (You probably won't be able to swap to the local NFS server without deadlocking.) People have implemented better solutions than that with some degree of OS support, however. Take a look at Mach's external pagers [1] and LRVM[2]. [1] http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/rashid87machineindependent.html [2] http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/satyanarayanan94lightweight.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 12:55:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1A716A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861A643FA3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9PJtQKI076605; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9PJtQ5Y076600; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:55:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: Marcel Moolenaar In-Reply-To: <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Message-ID: <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 19:55:28 -0000 > There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a > way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always > recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within > that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because > you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If > noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, > it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty > work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit > because none of his work has been committed. > I think this perfectly underscores, if not restates, Terry's point. He doesn't believe sufficient value is placed on the "dirty work". The following will sound as if it were intended to be ironic, but it isn't. Those working in the DragonFly tree, all appreciate Hiten's hard work as a "bottle-washer". We've benefited from the fact that members of the FreeBSD community, through racist remarks and endless flames, and a key member of core, through the indefinite postponement of a commit-bit, have alienated him. Thus providing us with a, perhaps small, but nonetheless, valuable resource. -Kip From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:06:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C351716A4BF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2F743FAF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36C466DF6; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AEB78DB5; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:06:01 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Kip Macy Message-ID: <20031025200601.GA96659@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:06:03 -0000 --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 12:55:26PM -0700, Kip Macy wrote: > Those working in the DragonFly tree, all appreciate Hiten's hard work as a > "bottle-washer". We've benefited from the fact that members of the FreeBSD > community, through racist remarks and endless flames, and a key member of > core, through the indefinite postponement of a commit-bit, have alienated > him. Thus providing us with a, perhaps small, but nonetheless, valuable > resource. Those allegations against the core member were withdrawn, and I think it is despicable of you to use slurs of racism to attempt to promote your project. Hiten shouldn't be used as a pawn in your game. No-one has a problem with DragonFly having forked over technical differences. Don't polarise it into active hate between the two projects, you'll only end up damaging both. Kris --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/mtepWry0BWjoQKURAiiuAKDrl1otoSZ+g80iJ8EePetjBpdubgCeLogr O+ddhfCbjI+nE29iu/VPDes= =6NN6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:09:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5502A16A4BF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71DC43FD7 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PK8rW9095148; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PK8r3h018129; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PK8qLj018128; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:08:52 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.9-RC X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:09:05 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 12:41:35PM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:54:59AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Frankly, FreeBSD has too many cooks, and not enough bottle washers; > > this is a euphimism for saying that all anyone with a commit bit > > seems to want to do any more is write new code, and no one is > > willing to take on the integration and maintenance tasks. > > The euphemism sucks, but the point is there. The problem here has > nothing to do with commit bits. People who do the dirty work and > do it in a way that demonstrates that they can do it unattended > are given commit bits. The problem is that after a certain amount > of dirty work someone either goes away or, if given a commit bit, > moves on to more interesting things to waste time on. > > There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a > way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always > recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within > that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because > you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If > noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, > it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty > work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit > because none of his work has been committed. And to add to the complexity the non-committer providing patches has a much better chance of obtaining his/her own commit bit if the patches are committed to the repo. That is the (in?)famous track-record that has been discussed before that is one of the gating factors for a commit bit. Puzzling.. to say the least.. Wilko -- | / o / /_ _ FreeBSD core team secretary |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:10:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE6516A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpzilla3.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla3.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AA543FD7 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtpzilla3.xs4all.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PKA3Sb007876; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:10:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PKA33h018147; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:10:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PKA3Ug018146; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:10:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:10:03 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Kip Macy Message-ID: <20031025201003.GC18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.9-RC X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:10:19 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 12:55:26PM -0700, Kip Macy wrote: > > There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a > > way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always > > recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within > > that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because > > you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If > > noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, > > it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty > > work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit > > because none of his work has been committed. > > > > I think this perfectly underscores, if not restates, Terry's point. He > doesn't believe sufficient value is placed on the "dirty work". The > following will sound as if it were intended to be ironic, but it isn't. > Those working in the DragonFly tree, all appreciate Hiten's hard work as a > "bottle-washer". We've benefited from the fact that members of the FreeBSD > community, through racist remarks and endless flames, and a key member of > core, through the indefinite postponement of a commit-bit, have alienated And that is certifiable BS.. I suggest you talk to Hiten first before you further spread fud like this.... W/ -- | / o / /_ _ FreeBSD core team secretary |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:15:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7701E16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E327843F3F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PKFGax024645; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:15:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Kip Macy From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Oct 2003 12:55:26 PDT." <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:15:16 +0200 Message-ID: <24644.1067112916@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:15:24 -0000 In message <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com>, Kip Macy writes: >We've benefited from the fact that members of the FreeBSD >community, through racist remarks and endless flames, and a key member of >core, through the indefinite postponement of a commit-bit, have alienated >him. Thus providing us with a, perhaps small, but nonetheless, valuable >resource. I suggest we donate a big statue to DragonFlyBSD. We could for instance inscribe it with "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." Kip, If you had managed to delude anybody to think you wanted peaceful cooperation between the projects, this email from you probably dispelled that notion pretty fast. For the last ten years, the NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD projects have had a tacit agreement not to post propaganda and inflamatory accusations to each others email lists (what project members do in their own projects is of course a different matter). I, and I think other members of FreeBSD, would appreciate it if the members of DragonflyBSD would adhere to this peace-keeping rule as well. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:17:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B3116A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A674D43F3F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:17:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9PKHVKI081887; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9PKHVmH081884; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:17:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:17:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20031025200601.GA96659@rot13.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: <20031025130709.M41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> <20031025200601.GA96659@rot13.obsecurity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:17:33 -0000 This isn't a game Kris. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings. Core always supports its own. Take a look at the history of SMP locking, the sudden change of ownership when the foundation came into money, the ensuing letter to core, and then the complete inaction. > Those allegations against the core member were withdrawn, and I think > it is despicable of you to use slurs of racism to attempt to promote > your project. Hiten shouldn't be used as a pawn. Hiten is not a pawn. He is my friend. He has been endlessly hurt by numerous *private* e-mails to him from people on the FreeBSD lists. Please re-read my original e-mail I did not claim anything on the part of core. I'm not slurring the community as a whole. Please note that DragonFly is not "my project" any more than FreeBSD is, I happened to do some work in it. > > No-one has a problem with DragonFly having forked over technical > differences. Don't polarise it into active hate between the two > projects, you'll only end up damaging both. > Thank you for the advice. If you'll notice I'm not on any of the lists any more. As soon is thread is permitted to die you will likely never hear from me again. Please don't expect me to be silent on the e-mails that I do receive, taking some sort of "moral high-ground". -Kip From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:18:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8169316A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D7C43F3F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:18:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9PKIMKI082057; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9PKIM9E082054; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:18:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:18:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <24644.1067112916@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20031025131751.R41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <24644.1067112916@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:18:24 -0000 > I, and I think other members of FreeBSD, would appreciate it if > the members of DragonflyBSD would adhere to this peace-keeping > rule as well. > Thank you for providing sound advice Poul in a public forum. -Kip From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:20:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC1616A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD60443FDD for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:20:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9PKK1KI082539; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9PKK1cu082534; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:20:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: Wilko Bulte In-Reply-To: <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20031025131847.I41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:20:07 -0000 > > Puzzling.. to say the least.. > I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Please allow this thread to die, and me to move on to other things. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 13:54:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776EA16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ACD43FBD for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (athlon.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.3]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PKsZbe075691; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PKsZGZ000791; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@athlon.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h9PKsZ0H000790; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:54:35 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Kip Macy Message-ID: <20031025205435.GA689@athlon.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031025124518.F41344@demos.bsdclusters.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:54:43 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 12:55:26PM -0700, Kip Macy wrote: > > There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a > > way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always > > recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within > > that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because > > you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If > > noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, > > it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty > > work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit > > because none of his work has been committed. > > > > I think this perfectly underscores, if not restates, Terry's point. He > doesn't believe sufficient value is placed on the "dirty work". There's a fundamental difference between recognition of important work and valuing important work. If you don't recognise it, you cannot value it. Undervaluing important work therefore implies that you at least recognise it. There probably is some undervaluing in the FreeBSD project. However, one must not forget that "there's always a bigger fish" (one of the more lame lines from The Phantom Menace, btw). There's such a thing as bad timing for dirty work. This does not render the dirty work unimportant per se, but it does make it irrelevent for the moment. This is where I think a lot of the friction originates. > Those working in the DragonFly tree, all appreciate Hiten's hard work as a > "bottle-washer". I don't understand why Hiten has to be insulted all of a sudden. Then again, it does make a weird kind of sense considering the following: > We've benefited from the fact that members of the FreeBSD > community, through racist remarks and endless flames, and a key member of > core, through the indefinite postponement of a commit-bit, have alienated > him. I for one am very glad you're not a member of the FreeBSD community. And given that you've found a place with DragonFly, there's little chance that you become part of FreeBSD community in the future. For that I'm also very glad. So, all in all, I'm very glad DragonFly exists. Now even more than before. Because besides the technical divergence it also seems to have the effect of purifying the FreeBSD community from those who are dumb enough to make a fool of themselves, and indirectly the project, race and species they're associated with or otherwise belong to. Unfortunately, that's still 2 out of 3 for me, but then again life wouldn't be so much fun for me if it wasn't for guys like you Kip. I can handle the embarrassment, so do stick around... -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 14:15:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5499A16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos.bsdclusters.com [69.55.225.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B39943FCB for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from demos.bsdclusters.com (demos [69.55.225.36]) h9PLFiKI095944; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kmacy@fsmware.com) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost)h9PLFhLL095939; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:15:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: demos.bsdclusters.com: kmacy owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:15:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kip Macy X-X-Sender: kmacy@demos.bsdclusters.com To: Marcel Moolenaar In-Reply-To: <20031025205435.GA689@athlon.pn.xcllnt.net> Message-ID: <20031025135752.U84860@demos.bsdclusters.com> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025205435.GA689@athlon.pn.xcllnt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:15:46 -0000 > I for one am very glad you're not a member of the FreeBSD community. > And given that you've found a place with DragonFly, there's little > chance that you become part of FreeBSD community in the future. For As stated previously, I'm not, nor have I ever been, a "member" of DragonFly BSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or Linux. I've just done work in the first two and the last. So don't slur those who choose to define themselves as members with all the various evils that you appear to want to attribute to me. > that I'm also very glad. So, all in all, I'm very glad DragonFly > exists. Now even more than before. Because besides the technical > divergence it also seems to have the effect of purifying the FreeBSD > community from those who are dumb enough to make a fool of themselves, FreeBSD is not yet "pure", but people like you and phk are helping to ensure that every day it becomes more "pure". And once again, I thank you both for your efforts. > and indirectly the project, race and species they're associated with > or otherwise belong to. Unfortunately, that's still 2 out of 3 for > me, but then again life wouldn't be so much fun for me if it wasn't > for guys like you Kip. I can handle the embarrassment, so do stick > around... Ouch. That truly is all encompassing. It is unfortunate that there isn't a competitive demand for people who are talented at making snide remarks. You and a couple of other notables would be very well off. It is also unfortunate that people like you and phk are the most vocal members of the FreeBSD community. There are so many good, kind, and talented people out there. -Kip From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 14:43:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C13016A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE7843FDF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PLgqiF032429; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PLgqq4032428; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:42:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200310252142.h9PLgqq4032428@apollo.backplane.com> To: Wilko Bulte References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:43:01 -0000 I think it needs to be recognized that *no* submission or suggestion, whether by core, a committer, or an outside member, will ever survive its original maintainership 'forever'. This is true for everything that was ever put into the kernel throughout its entire history: VFS, VM, BIO, KLD, ELF, Makefiles, the Scheduler, and it is true of all new contemporary work as well (Geom, Slab Allocator, Mutexes, Thread scheduler rules, Security work, etc..). For any outside submission, it is up to the inside project members to take up the ball and do the final step if they want the work in the project. Heaping conformistic requirements on an outside originator will simply result in the work not ever getting into your tree. It's really that simple. After all, FreeBSD is not going to be the focus for any outside submission (KAME's history in the tree being a really good example of this). Regardless of their intent, the lack of involvement by the general FreeBSD developer community has led to some severe issues over the years, yet it is equally obvious that there is great demand for the work. The outsider is not going to be tracking FreeBSD development anywhere near as tightly as FreeBSD insiders do, which makes the idea of requiring a FreeBSD-specific patch set in the first place rather silly. So it simply becomes a matter of whether there is a developer within the project who feels that a piece of work is interesting enough to do the last bit required to integrate, document, and bring it into your project in a fashion that can be maintained generally according to the rules of that project... and then move on. The work is certainly germane. Really, any open-source work is germane, especially on the a list like freebsd-hackers :-). The FreeBSD project is an open-source project, after all, even if some of its developers treat it as their own personal fiefdoms and people are afraid to cross maintainership boundaries because they get their heads bitten off every time they do. The whole maintainership and stewardship concept has seriously stratified FreeBSD development, to the point where some very bad technical decisions have been made over the last few years (Hence DragonFly's existence). -Matt Matthew Dillon :On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 12:41:35PM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: :> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 11:54:59AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: :> > :> > Frankly, FreeBSD has too many cooks, and not enough bottle washers; :> > this is a euphimism for saying that all anyone with a commit bit :> > seems to want to do any more is write new code, and no one is :> > willing to take on the integration and maintenance tasks. :> :> The euphemism sucks, but the point is there. The problem here has :> nothing to do with commit bits. People who do the dirty work and :> do it in a way that demonstrates that they can do it unattended :> are given commit bits. The problem is that after a certain amount :> of dirty work someone either goes away or, if given a commit bit, :> moves on to more interesting things to waste time on. :> :> There is also a problem in that the dirty work, even if done in a :> way that demonstrates that the person has skills, is not always :> recognised as important. The recognition has to come from within :> that part of the developer community that has commit bits, because :> you need someone with a commit bit to actually commit the stuff. If :> noone with a commit bit recorgnises the dirty work as important, :> it's not going to be committed and the person who has done the dirty :> work is not recognised as someone who is worthy of a commit bit :> because none of his work has been committed. : :And to add to the complexity the non-committer providing patches :has a much better chance of obtaining his/her own commit bit if the :patches are committed to the repo. : :That is the (in?)famous track-record that has been discussed before :that is one of the gating factors for a commit bit. : :Puzzling.. to say the least.. : :Wilko From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 15:13:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CBA16A4BF for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80BA243F85 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PMDCiF032547; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9PMDCHq032546; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:13:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200310252213.h9PMDCHq032546@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kip Macy , Marcel Moolenaar , John-Mark Gurney , hackers@freebsd.org References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025135752.U84860@demos.bsdclusters.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:13:14 -0000 Sheesh, you think you guys (*ALL* you guys) have enough time on your hands? There are better places to direct all that brainpower. I don't really need to defend DragonFly... I believe it stands on its own very well not only with what we have already accomplished but with what we are about to accomplish. Jeffrey is very close to decoupling the NETIF and network protocol drivers from Giant and Hiten has been playing with the APICs in regards to distributing interrupts to particular CPUs (something which DragonFly is particularly good at due to the way the light weight kernel threading system works). As soon as I get this namecache mess rewritten (and assuming David Rhodus doesn't keep pulling obscure panics out of his hat :-), but to be fair our NFS is already gobs faster then 4.x)... I am going to start cleaning up loose ends in the networking code and we will have the critical path entirely decoupled and mostly (or completely) mutexless. We are taking a somewhat different approach to BGL removal then 5.x. Instead of halfhazardly locking up subsystems with mutexes we are instead locking up subsystems by moving them into their own threads, then scaling through the use of multiple threads, and leaving everything that hasn't been locked up under the BGL. That way we are able to skip the intermediate step of determining where all the contention is, because the only contention will be the BGL'd areas which haven't been converted yet and we will simply assume contention. This way we can focus on optimizing the critical path, which will get us 80% of the scaleability we need, and tackle the other things like, say, the route table, after we have the topology in place and can see clearly what needs to be done for it (e.g. like using RCU and passive IPI messaging instead of mutexes for updates). So, for example, take the TCP stack. It's already mostly in its own thread simply by virtue of being a software interrupt. Softints, like interrupts, are threads in DragonFly. After the first lockup phase external APIs such as mbuf allocation and freeing, and route table lookups, will still be under the BGL, but PCBs and packet manipulation will be serialized in the protocol thread(s) and require no mutexes or locks whatsoever. Then we will move most of the mbuf API out of the BGL simply by adding a per-cpu layer (and since there is no cpu-hopping preemption we can depend on the per-cpu globaldata area without wasting cycles getting and releasing mutexes that just waste cycles since the whole idea is for there to be no contention in the first place). But just like our current slab allocator, things that miss the per-cpu globaldata cache will either use the BGL to access the kernel_map or will queue the operation (if it does not need to be synchronous) for later execution. After all, who cares if free() can't release a chunk of memory to the kernel_map instantly for reuse? It's a lot easier lockup path then the direction 5.x is going, and a whole lot more maintainable IMHO because most of the coding doesn't have to worry about mutexes or LORs or anything like that. If I were to recommend anything to the folks working on FreeBSD-current, it would be: * get rid of priority borrowing, and stop depending on it to fix all your woes with interrupt threads accessing mutexes that non-interrupt threads might also be accessing in the critical path. Fix the interrupt code instead. * get rid of *NON*-interrupt thread preemption while in the kernel. * get rid of preemptive cpu migration, even across normal blocks inside the kernel unless you tell the API otherwise with a flag that it is ok. * formalize critical sections to use just the counter mechanism (similar to spls in 4.x), which it almost does now, and require that hardware interrupts conform to the mechanism on all architectures. * Port our IPI messaging code (which isn't optimized yet, but works and can theoretically be very nicely optimized). * separate the userland scheduler from the kernel thread scheduler using a designated P_CURPROC approach, which completely fixes the priority inversion issues I might add that ULE only 'fake fixes' right now. Make the kernel thread scheduler a fixed priority scheduler (e.g. highest priority being interrupts, then softints, then threads operating in the kernel, then user associated threads operating in the kernel, then user associated threads operating in userland). Fix the userland scheduler API to conform to the designated P_CURPROC approach, where the userland scheduler is responsible for maintaining a single user process's thread or threads on each cpu in the system at a time. If you did the above you would be a lot happier. Once the schedulers are separated I would also make the kernel thread scheduler per-cpu and remove *ALL* mutex dependancies from it, which in turn will allow you to trivially integrate BGL requirements with a per-thread lock counter and directly integrate it into the kernel thread scheduler, which I do in DragonFly if you look at kern/lwkt_thread.c. It actually optimizes the use of the BGL such that you can avoid doing BGL operations when switching between threads with the same BGL locked/not-locked state. -Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 15:21:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F93C16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AADD43F85 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PML5ax025906 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:21:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:21:05 +0200 Message-ID: <25905.1067120465@critter.freebsd.dk> Subject: Bye hackers@... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:21:09 -0000 Sorry, I'm reducing my email load by dropping off hackers@freebsd.org If you want my attention on a problem, send me private email, Cc' me or send it to another list were I'm subscribed. Sorry... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 16:04:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4D816A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E6643FCB for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A61795D4; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:04:23 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 55D089C043; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:04:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 18C0B9BFF3; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:04:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D2BAFB823; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:04:18 +0200 (CEST) To: Q References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:04:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> (q_dolan@yahoo.com.au's message of "Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:00:36 +1000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on dsa.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:04:26 -0000 Q writes: > Yes, it would appear this is a legacy thing that existed in the original > 1994 import of the BSD 4.4 Lite source. Both FreeBSD and NetBSD still > use this technique, but OpenBSD changed to using Red-Black trees back in > Feb 2002. > [...] > I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used by > OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. Adapting OpenBSD's red-balck patches would require quite a bit of work as FreeBSD and OpenBSD have diverged quite a bit in this area. Though it is a good idea to change the list into a tree, I think you'd get more mileage by addressing the fundamental problem, which is the lack of a free list. The current code (in both FreeBSD and OpenBSD) searches a list or tree of allocated extents, sorted by location, looking for a pair that have sufficient space between them for the extent you want to create. We should instead keep track of free extents in a structure that makes it easy to locate one of the correct size. We probably need a dual structure, though, because we need to keep the free extents sorted both by size (to quickly find what we need) and by location (to facilitate aggregation of adjacent extents, without which we'd suffer horribly from address space fragmentation). I have no idea how much this means for real-life workloads though. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 16:04:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FE816A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9EB43F75 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9PN4dbe076326; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9PN4cP9001374; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h9PN4coI001373; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:04:38 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Matthew Dillon Message-ID: <20031025230438.GA1118@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <200310230143.32244.wes@softweyr.com> <20031025175948.GF683@funkthat.com> <3F9AC703.4DBAA14C@mindspring.com> <20031025194135.GA790@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20031025200852.GB18072@freebie.xs4all.nl> <200310252142.h9PLgqq4032428@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310252142.h9PLgqq4032428@apollo.backplane.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:04:55 -0000 On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 02:42:52PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > So it simply becomes a matter of whether there is a developer within > the project who feels that a piece of work is interesting enough to do > the last bit required to integrate, document, and bring it into your > project in a fashion that can be maintained generally according to > the rules of that project... and then move on. Yes. Note that the developer doesn't even have to think the work is interesting. Just that it's valuable and worth doing. > The work is certainly germane. Really, any open-source work is germane, > especially on the a list like freebsd-hackers :-) Agreed, to some extend. Not all open source projects have sufficient relation or impact on FreeBSD that discussing them here has an impact on FreeBSD. I certainly agree that work done in DragonFly can be discussed here. For the sake of DragonFly and FreeBSD I would expect that none of the FreeBSD lists are used as substitutes for DragonFly mailinglists and vice versa. > The FreeBSD project > is an open-source project, after all, even if some of its developers > treat it as their own personal fiefdoms and people are afraid to cross > maintainership boundaries because they get their heads bitten off every > time they do. Fiefdoms are natural. We humans have a long history of people trying to grab power at various levels of scope, with various levels of force or terror and for reasons of insecurity or insanity at various levels of mental abnormality. This does not mean that fiefdoms are good. It simply means that you're kicking-in open doors. The problem is how to create an environment where the creation of fiefdoms can be stopped before it becomes a problem. Also, I think that most fiefdoms are in fact protectorates. When some- one has put in a lot of thought and work to make some component as perfect as is reasonably possible, you're likely going to step on his or her (we don't want to be labeled as sexists here :-) toes if you make changes that do not appear to have been thought-out as much as the original code. The appearance may not match reality of course, but still the author is likely to resist as a first reaction. Better yet, and I think this applies to you, when changes go against the direction the author was going into, you have a far more political struggle than we'd probably all like. You suddenly have to deal with personalities, egos and other non-technical subjects. It can reach a point where the technical content is totally irrelevant, because the battle is really mostly personal and the code is just an excuse. This may look like fiefdoms, but it's really just psychology and human imperfection. We all suck that way :-) > The whole maintainership and stewardship concept has > seriously stratified FreeBSD development, to the point where some very > bad technical decisions have been made over the last few years (Hence > DragonFly's existence). I don't think it's that bad or that it can be generalized this way, but there are some examples that seem to support what you say. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 18:38:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7368416A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8249943FB1 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q1bTMg084294; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:37:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h9Q1bSEQ084291; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:37:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:37:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Matthew Dillon In-Reply-To: <200310252213.h9PMDCHq032546@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Kip Macy cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:38:41 -0000 On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: > It's a lot easier lockup path then the direction 5.x is going, and > a whole lot more maintainable IMHO because most of the coding doesn't > have to worry about mutexes or LORs or anything like that. You still have to be pretty careful, though, with relying on implicit synchronization, because while it works well deep in a subsystem, it can break down on subsystem boundaries. One of the challenges I've been bumping into recently when working with Darwin has been the split between their Giant kernel lock, and their network lock. To give a high level summary of the architecture, basically they have two Funnels, which behave similarly to the Giant lock in -STABLE/-CURRENT: when you block, the lock is released, allowing other threads to enter the kernel, and regained when the thread starts to execute again. They then have fine-grained locking for the Mach-derived components, such as memory allocation, VM, et al. Deep in a particular subsystem -- say, the network stack, all works fine. The problem is at the boundaries, where structures are shared between multiple compartments. I.e., process credentials are referenced by both "halves" of the Darwin BSD kernel code, and are insufficiently protected in the current implementation (they have a write lock, but no read lock, so it looks like it should be possible to get stale references with pointers accessed in a read form under two different locks). Similarly, there's the potential for serious problems at the surprisingly frequently occuring boundaries between the network subsystem and remainder of the kernel: file descriptor related code, fifos, BPF, et al. By making use of two large subsystem locks, they do simplify locking inside the subsystem, but it's based on a web of implicit assumptions and boundary synchronization that carries most of the risks of explicit locking. It's also worth noting that there have been some serious bugs associated with a lack of explicit synchronization in the non-concurrent kernel model used in RELENG_4 (and a host of other early UNIX systems relying on a single kernel lock). These have to do with unexpected blocking deep in a function call stack, where it's not anticipated by a developer writing source code higher in the stack, resulting in race conditions. In the past, there have been a number of exploitable security vulnerabilities due to races opened up in low memory conditions, during paging, etc. One solution I was exploring was using the compiler to help track the potential for functions to block, similar to the const qualifier, combined with blocking/non-blocking assertions evaluated at compile-time. However, some of our current APIs (M_NOWAIT, M_WAITOK, et al) make that approach somewhat difficult to apply, and would have to be revised to use a compiler solution. These potential weaknesses very much exist in an explicit model, but with explicit locking, we have a clearer notion of how to express assertions. In -CURRENT, we make use of thread-based serialization in a number of places to avoid explicit synchronization costs (such as in GEOM for processing work queues), and we should make more use of this practice. I'm particularly interested in the use of interface interrupt threads performing direct dispatch as a means to maintain interface ordering of packets coming in network interfaces while allowing parallelism in network processing (you'll find this in use in Sam's netperf branch currently). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 21:01:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5354C16A4BF; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF2F43FBD; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9Q41miF034082; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9Q41858034072; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200310260401.h9Q41858034072@apollo.backplane.com> To: Robert Watson References: cc: Kip Macy cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 04:01:50 -0000 :> It's a lot easier lockup path then the direction 5.x is going, and :> a whole lot more maintainable IMHO because most of the coding doesn't :> have to worry about mutexes or LORs or anything like that. : :You still have to be pretty careful, though, with relying on implicit :synchronization, because while it works well deep in a subsystem, it can :break down on subsystem boundaries. One of the challenges I've been :bumping into recently when working with Darwin has been the split between :their Giant kernel lock, and their network lock. To give a high level :summary of the architecture, basically they have two Funnels, which behave :similarly to the Giant lock in -STABLE/-CURRENT: when you block, the lock :is released, allowing other threads to enter the kernel, and regained when :the thread starts to execute again. They then have fine-grained locking :for the Mach-derived components, such as memory allocation, VM, et al. I recall a presentation at BSDCon that mentioned that... yours I think. The interfaces we are contemplating for the NETIF (at the bottom) and UIPC (at the top) are different. We probably won't need to use any mutexes to queue incoming packets to the protocol thread, we will almost certainly use an async IPI message to queue a message holding the packet if the protocol thread is on a different cpu. On the same cpu it's just a critical section to interlock the queueing operation against the protocol thread. Protocol packet output to NETIF would use the same methodology... asynch IPI message if the NETIF is on another cpu, critical section if it is on the current cpu. The protocol itself will change from a softint to a normal thread, or perhaps a thread at softint priority. The softint is already a thread but we would separate each protocol into its own thread and have an ability to create several threads for a single protocol (like TCP) when necessary to take advantage of multiple cpus. On the UIPC side we have a choice of using a mutex to lock the socket buffer, or passing a message to the protocol thread responsible for the socket buffer (aka PCB). There are tradeoffs for both situations since if this is related to a write() it winds up being a synchronous message. Another option is to COW the memory but that might be too complex. Smaller writes could simply copyin() the data as an option, or we could treat the socket buffer as a FIFO which would allow the system call UIPC interface to append to it without holding any locks (other then a memory barrier after the copy and before updating the index), then simply send a kick-off message to the protocol thread telling it that more data is present. :Deep in a particular subsystem -- say, the network stack, all works fine. :The problem is at the boundaries, where structures are shared between :multiple compartments. I.e., process credentials are referenced by both :"halves" of the Darwin BSD kernel code, and are insufficiently protected :in the current implementation (they have a write lock, but no read lock, :so it looks like it should be possible to get stale references with :pointers accessed in a read form under two different locks). Similarly, :there's the potential for serious problems at the surprisingly frequently :occuring boundaries between the network subsystem and remainder of the :kernel: file descriptor related code, fifos, BPF, et al. By making use of :two large subsystem locks, they do simplify locking inside the subsystem, :but it's based on a web of implicit assumptions and boundary :synchronization that carries most of the risks of explicit locking. Yes. I'm not worried about BPF, and ucred is easy since it is already 95% of the way there, though messing with ucred's ref count will require a mutex or an atomic bus-locked instruction even in DragonFly! The route table is our big issue. TCP caches routes so we can still BGL the route table and achieve 85% of the scaleable performance so I am not going to worry about the route table initially. An example with ucred would be to passively queue it to a particular cpu for action. Lets say instead of using an atomic bus-locked instruction to manipulate ucred's ref count, we instead send a passive IPI to the cpu 'owning' the ucred, and that ucred is otherwise read-only. A passive IPI, which I haven't implemented yet, is simply queueing an IPI message but not actually generating an interrupt on the target cpu unless the CPU->CPU software IPI message FIFO is full, so it doesn't actually waste any cpu cycles and multiple operations can be executed in-batch by the target. Passive IPIs can be used for things that do not require instantanious action and both bumping and releasing ref counts can take advantage of it. I'm not saying that is how we will deal with ucred, but it is a definite option. :It's also worth noting that there have been some serious bugs associated :with a lack of explicit synchronization in the non-concurrent kernel model :used in RELENG_4 (and a host of other early UNIX systems relying on a :single kernel lock). These have to do with unexpected blocking deep in a :function call stack, where it's not anticipated by a developer writing :source code higher in the stack, resulting in race conditions. In the I've encountered this with softupdates, so I know what you mean. softupdates (at least in 4.x) is extremely sensitive to blocking in places where it doesn't expect blocking to happen. My free() code was occassionally (and accidently) blocking in an interrupt thread waiting on kernel_map (I've already removed kmem_map from DragonFly), and this was enough to cause softupdates to panic in its IO completion rundown once in a blue moon due to assumptions on its lock 'lk'. Synchronization is a bigger problem in 5.x then it is in DragonFly because in DragonFly most of the work is shoved over to the cpu that 'owns' the data structure via an async IPI. e.g. when you want to schedule thread X on cpu 1 and thread X is owned by cpu 2, cpu 1 will send an asynch IPI to cpu 2 and cpu 2 will actually do the scheduling. If the cpuid changes during the message transit cpu 2 will simply chase the owning cpu, forwarding it along. It doesn't matter if the cpuid is out of synch, in fact! You don't even need a memory barrier. Same goes for the slab allocator... DragonFly does not mess with the slab allocated by another cpu, it forwards the free() request to the other cpu instead. For a protocol, a protocol thread will own a PCB, so the PCB will be 'owned' by the cpu the protocol thread is on. Any manipulation of the PCB must occur on that cpu or otherwise be very carefully managed (e.g. FIFO rindex/windex for the socket buffer and a memory barrier). Our intention is to encapsulate most operations as messages to the protocol thread owning the PCB. :past, there have been a number of exploitable security vulnerabilities due :to races opened up in low memory conditions, during paging, etc. One :solution I was exploring was using the compiler to help track the :potential for functions to block, similar to the const qualifier, combined :with blocking/non-blocking assertions evaluated at compile-time. However, :some of our current APIs (M_NOWAIT, M_WAITOK, et al) make that approach :somewhat difficult to apply, and would have to be revised to use a :compiler solution. These potential weaknesses very much exist in an :explicit model, but with explicit locking, we have a clearer notion of how :to express assertions. DragonFly is using its LWKT messaging API to abstract blocking verses non-blocking. In particular, if a client sends a message using an asynch interface it isn't supposed to block, but can return EASYNC if it wound up queueing the message due to not being able to execute it synchronous without blocking. If a client sends a message using a synchronous messaging interface then the client is telling the messaging subsystem that it is ok to block. This combined with the fact that we are using critical sections and per-cpu globaldata caches that do not require mutexes to access allows code to easily determine whether something might or might not block, and the message structure is a convenient placemark to queue and return EASYNC deep in the kernel if something would otherwise block when it isn't supposed to. We also have the asynch IPI mechanism and a few other mechanisms at our disposal and these cover a surprisingly large number of situations in the system. 90% of the 'not sure if we might block' problem is related to scheduling or memory allocation and neither of those subsystems needs to use extranious mutexes, so managing the blocking conditions is actually quite easy. :In -CURRENT, we make use of thread-based serialization in a number of :places to avoid explicit synchronization costs (such as in GEOM for :processing work queues), and we should make more use of this practice. :I'm particularly interested in the use of interface interrupt threads :performing direct dispatch as a means to maintain interface ordering of :packets coming in network interfaces while allowing parallelism in network :processing (you'll find this in use in Sam's netperf branch currently). : :Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects :robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories I definitely think that -current should explore a greater roll for threading subsystems. Remember that many operations can be done asynchronously and thus do not actually require synchronous context switches or blocking. A GEOM strategy routine is a good example, since it must perform I/O and I/O *ALWAYS* blocks or takes an interrupt at some point. However, you need to be careful because not all operations truely need to be run in a threaded subsystem's thread context. This is why DragonFly's LWKT messaging subsystem uses the Amiga's BeginIo abstraction for dispatching a message, which allows the target port to execute messages synchronously in the context of the caller if it happens to be possible to do so without blocking. The advantage of this is that we can start out by always queueing the message (thereby guarenteeing that queue mode operation will always be acceptable), and then later on we can optimize paricular messages (such as read()'s that are able to lock and access the VM object's page cache without blocking, in order to avoid switching to a filesystem thread unnecessarily). I'm sure we will hit issues but so far it has been smooth sailing. -Matt Matthew Dillon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 21:42:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B902816A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F2A43F75 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q4etMg086027; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:40:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h9Q4esbX086024; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:40:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 00:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Matthew Dillon In-Reply-To: <200310260401.h9Q41858034072@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Kip Macy cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: John-Mark Gurney cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Synchronization philosophy (was: Re: FreeBSD mail list etiquette) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 04:42:01 -0000 (Subject changed to reflect the fact that it contains useful technical content and banter, resulting in a hijacking of the thread; hope no one minds) On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: > Yes. I'm not worried about BPF, and ucred is easy since it is > already 95% of the way there, though messing with ucred's ref count > will require a mutex or an atomic bus-locked instruction even in > DragonFly! The route table is our big issue. TCP caches routes so we > can still BGL the route table and achieve 85% of the scaleable > performance so I am not going to worry about the route table initially. > > An example with ucred would be to passively queue it to a particular cpu > for action. Lets say instead of using an atomic bus-locked instruction > to manipulate ucred's ref count, we instead send a passive IPI to the > cpu 'owning' the ucred, and that ucred is otherwise read-only. A > passive IPI, which I haven't implemented yet, is simply queueing an > IPI message but not actually generating an interrupt on the target cpu > unless the CPU->CPU software IPI message FIFO is full, so it doesn't > actually waste any cpu cycles and multiple operations can be executed > in-batch by the target. Passive IPIs can be used for things > that do not require instantanious action and both bumping and releasing > ref counts can take advantage of it. I'm not saying that is how > we will deal with ucred, but it is a definite option. Actually, the problem isn't so much the data referenced by ucred, but the references themselves. Part of the issue in Darwin is that ucred references are always gained using the p_ucred pointer in the proc structure. The proc structure is read and dereferenced fairly deep in the network code (network funnel), and also in the remainder of the kernel (kernel funnel). In addition, there's a lock used to serialize writes to p->p_ucred, but not to protect against reads of stale data. Shared structures, such as these, occur in pretty large quantity in BSD code, and will be a problem no matter what approach to synchronization is taken. Moving towards message passing helps to structure the code to avoid sharing of this sort, although it's not the only way to motivate that sort of change. I'm a big fan of the change in -CURRENT to use td->td_cred as a read-only thread-local credential reference and avoid synchronization on the credential reference--it nicely addresses the requirements for consistency in the referenced data for the read-only cases (which are the vast majority of uses of a credential). There are a number of cases where moving towards a message passing philosophy would really clean up the synchronization and parallelism issues in FreeBSD: for example, even the relatively simple accounting file rotation would benefit from queue-like operation to serialize the accounting data/event stream and rotation events. Using locks and condition variables to perform serialization as is currently done in the accounting code is unwieldy and bug-prone. However, when moving to event/message queuing, you also have to be very careful with data ownership and referencing, as well as proper error-handling. With accounting, most scheduled vnode operations are asynchronous and have no need for substantial error handling (when a process performs execve(), regardless of whether accounting of that operation succeeds or fails, execve() continues). The start/stop operation, however, is intended to be synchronous. Happily, in the accounting case, all necessary error checking can be performed in advance of the handoff to the accounting thread from the user thread, but that won't always be the case... One of the other risks that has worried me about this approach is that explicit locking has some nice benefits from the perspective of deadlocking and lock order management: monitoring for deadlocks and lock orders is a well-understood topic, and the tools for tracking deadlocks and wait conditions, as well as for performing locking and waiting safely, are mature. As with with the older BSD sleeping interfaces, such as tsleep(), synchronous waits on messages are harder to mechanically track, and resulting deadlocks resemble resource deadlocks more than lock deadlocks... On the other hand, some forms of tracing may be made easier. I've had some pretty nasty experiences trying to track deadlocks between cooperating threads due to message waits, and found tools such as WITNESS much easier to work with. In some work we're doing for one of our customers, we make extensive use of handoff between various submitting threads and a serializing kernel thread making use of thread-local storage to avoid explicit synchronization. Having dealt both with lower level lock/cv primitives for event passing, and message passing, I have to say I'm leaning far more towards the message passing. However, it benefits particularly from the approach due to its asynchronous nature... > For a protocol, a protocol thread will own a PCB, so the PCB will be > 'owned' by the cpu the protocol thread is on. Any manipulation of the > PCB must occur on that cpu or otherwise be very carefully managed > (e.g. FIFO rindex/windex for the socket buffer and a memory barrier). > Our intention is to encapsulate most operations as messages to the > protocol thread owning the PCB. I'll be very interested to see how this ends up working out: even in RELENG_4, FreeBSD has sufficient apparent parallelism/preemption in the network stack to require synchronization at most levels. In RELENG_4, most upward bound traffic is serialized via the netisr thread, but downward traffic from user threads passes through the stack in parallel. Do you anticipate handing off control to a netisr-like thread earlier than RELENG_4 does in order to get things "into the right thread"? One of the conceptual issues we've been wrestling with is the issue of ordering of events: from the perspective of performance, guaranteeing the weakest possible ordering is desirable. However, with parallelism in the stack, you risk introducing weaker than permitted ordering of packets (triggering fast retransmits, etc). In most situations, it's sufficient to maintain source ordering: if two packets are from the same source, their ordering should be maintained. If they are from separate sources, maintaining order isn't required. This raises interesting questions about when you want to defer processing, and when to try and "catch up" to maintain performance and ordering. > :past, there have been a number of exploitable security vulnerabilities due > :to races opened up in low memory conditions, during paging, etc. One > :solution I was exploring was using the compiler to help track the > :potential for functions to block, similar to the const qualifier, combined > :with blocking/non-blocking assertions evaluated at compile-time. However, > :some of our current APIs (M_NOWAIT, M_WAITOK, et al) make that approach > :somewhat difficult to apply, and would have to be revised to use a > :compiler solution. These potential weaknesses very much exist in an > :explicit model, but with explicit locking, we have a clearer notion of how > :to express assertions. > > DragonFly is using its LWKT messaging API to abstract blocking verses > non-blocking. In particular, if a client sends a message using an > asynch interface it isn't supposed to block, but can return EASYNC if it > wound up queueing the message due to not being able to execute it > synchronous without blocking. If a client sends a message using a > synchronous messaging interface then the client is telling the > messaging subsystem that it is ok to block. The risk here is not so much that the first level of consumer code for an interface can't determine if it will block or not, but that after a few levels of abstraction, that information has disappeared (or worse, is conditional on context in an opaque way). > This combined with the fact that we are using critical sections and > per-cpu globaldata caches that do not require mutexes to access allows > code to easily determine whether something might or might not block, > and the message structure is a convenient placemark to queue and > return EASYNC deep in the kernel if something would otherwise block > when it isn't supposed to. > > We also have the asynch IPI mechanism and a few other mechanisms at > our disposal and these cover a surprisingly large number of situations > in the system. 90% of the 'not sure if we might block' problem > is related to scheduling or memory allocation and neither of those > subsystems needs to use extranious mutexes, so managing the blocking > conditions is actually quite easy. Again, I think it comes down to the fact that memory allocation APIs typically offer choices to the consumer: block if the resources aren't available, or fail. My mood swings a bit back and forth as to what the ideal strategy would/should be at the lowest level, but I think as you move up the stack, the exact semantics at the bottom matter less. The APIs are generally clear, but it's the programming layered on top of it that's sloppy (alternatively: at the bottom level API, the behavior is well-documented, but as you move up the stack, the behavior typically becomes more poorly documented). While it's probably appropriate to say "this is a property of poor programming, or at least, programming done against a model that we want no longer to hold true", there's still the issue of cleaning up the legacy code... Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 22:29:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B662A16A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (adsl-68-123-140-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.123.140.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A174143FBD for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:29:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q5T0en020812; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:29:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h9Q5SxOd020811; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 22:28:54 -0700 From: David Schultz To: "Dag-Erling =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" Message-ID: <20031026052854.GA20701@VARK.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Dag-Erling =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" , Q , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Q cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:29:30 -0000 On Sun, Oct 26, 2003, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > Q writes: > > Yes, it would appear this is a legacy thing that existed in the original > > 1994 import of the BSD 4.4 Lite source. Both FreeBSD and NetBSD still > > use this technique, but OpenBSD changed to using Red-Black trees back in > > Feb 2002. > > [...] > > I am wondering if there is a compelling reason why the technique used by > > OpenBSD could not be adapted to FreeBSD's VM system. > > Adapting OpenBSD's red-balck patches would require quite a bit of work > as FreeBSD and OpenBSD have diverged quite a bit in this area. Though > it is a good idea to change the list into a tree, I think you'd get > more mileage by addressing the fundamental problem, which is the lack > of a free list. The current code (in both FreeBSD and OpenBSD) > searches a list or tree of allocated extents, sorted by location, > looking for a pair that have sufficient space between them for the > extent you want to create. We should instead keep track of free > extents in a structure that makes it easy to locate one of the correct > size. We probably need a dual structure, though, because we need to > keep the free extents sorted both by size (to quickly find what we > need) and by location (to facilitate aggregation of adjacent extents, > without which we'd suffer horribly from address space fragmentation). > > I have no idea how much this means for real-life workloads though. Your idea of using a size-hashed freelist as well as a location-sorted list is appealing in its simplicity. Though it can cause a bit of fragmentation, it gives you constant time lookup. Bonwick's vmem allocator ([1], section 4.4.2 and following), apparently works quite well using this principle. But regardless of the approach, someone has yet to demonstrate that this is actually a performance problem in the real world. ;-) [1] http://www.usenix.org/event/usenix01/full_papers/bonwick/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 23:02:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D8316A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 49EFF43F3F for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 61375 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2003 06:02:39 -0000 Received: from niwun.pair.com (HELO localhost) (209.68.2.70) by relay.pair.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2003 06:02:39 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 209.68.2.70 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 01:02:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: David Schultz In-Reply-To: <20031026052854.GA20701@VARK.homeunix.com> Message-ID: <20031026005938.L2023@odysseus.silby.com> References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031026052854.GA20701@VARK.homeunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: "Dag-Erling =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=" cc: Kris Kennaway cc: Q cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:02:43 -0000 On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, David Schultz wrote: > But regardless of the approach, someone has yet to demonstrate > that this is actually a performance problem in the real world. ;-) I could be way wrong, but I would think that a database might mmap discontiguous segments of memory. Perhaps someone familiar with mysql/postgres/others might know if they would be a good benchmark. Actually, relating to this, didn't phk request a VM function which would remap a page (or contiguous segment of pages) to a new address which had free space after it? I believe that he needed such a feature to turbocharge realloc(). It sounds like the freelist mode of operation would make that more feasible. Mike "Silby" Silbersack From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 25 23:56:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4ED216A4B3 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (adsl-68-123-140-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.123.140.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A8443FBD for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9Q6uLen021861; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:56:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.homeunix.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h9Q6uLwu021860; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:56:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:56:21 -0700 From: David Schultz To: Mike Silbersack Message-ID: <20031026065621.GA21546@VARK.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Mike Silbersack , =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?B?ODg1OS0xP1E/U209RjhyZ3Jhdj89?=" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Q , Kris Kennaway References: <1066789354.21430.39.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022082953.GA69506@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066816287.25609.34.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031022095754.GA70026@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1066820436.25609.93.camel@boxster.onthenet.com.au> <20031026052854.GA20701@VARK.homeunix.com> <20031026005938.L2023@odysseus.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031026005938.L2023@odysseus.silby.com> cc: "Dag-Erling =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?Q?=3D=3Fus-ascii=3Aiso-8859-1=3FQ=3FS?= =?us-ascii:iso-8859-1?B?bT1GOHJncmF2Pz0=?=" cc: Kris Kennaway cc: Q cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some mmap observations compared to Linux 2.6/OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:56:52 -0000 On Sun, Oct 26, 2003, Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, David Schultz wrote: > > > But regardless of the approach, someone has yet to demonstrate > > that this is actually a performance problem in the real world. ;-) > > I could be way wrong, but I would think that a database might mmap > discontiguous segments of memory. Perhaps someone familiar with > mysql/postgres/others might know if they would be a good benchmark. I'm not particularly ``familiar'' with postgres, but I did some performance tests on it a little while ago. Grepping through one of the traces just now, I found that database system made 139 calls to mmap(), and the maximum number of regions mapped at any given time was 39.[1] I don't have execution times for the mmap() calls in this trace anymore, but with 139 of them total, I'm sure the overhead is minimal. Nevertheless, it's certainly possible that a reasonable ``mmap-bound'' application could exist; I just don't think it's very likely. > Actually, relating to this, didn't phk request a VM function which would > remap a page (or contiguous segment of pages) to a new address which had > free space after it? I believe that he needed such a feature to > turbocharge realloc(). It sounds like the freelist mode of operation > would make that more feasible. What he requested (at least in the malloc.c comments) was the ability to do a virtual move of malloc's main directory so that it can be expanded without copying it to a new location. You can't do this with mmap() because there's no ``handle'' with which to refer to anonymous memory regions from userland, and there are problems with malloc using a file descriptor. In any case, this issue is orthogonal, since malloc only needs one such directory at a time. [1] This is very approximate because it doesn't count shared libraries, and the little awk script I wrote doesn't account for the possibility that postgres might unmap a smaller region than the one it mapped.