From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Mar 16 17:21:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE6137B404 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A6E43FE9 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:21:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-b175.otenet.gr [212.205.244.183]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2H1LS5u021047; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 03:21:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2H1LCv9004081; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 03:21:26 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2G6RuBN009236; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 08:27:56 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 08:27:56 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Keith Woodworth Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 4.7 and Sendmail Message-ID: <20030316062755.GA9212@gothmog.gr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (terpsi) Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2003-03-08 11:49, Keith Woodworth wrote: > > Just installed a new 4.7 machine and find some of the behaviours > different compared to other versions. > [...] > Searching the Handbook/FAQ did not find much, but the archives I > found a post stating that: > > sendmail_enable=NO > sendmail_submit_enable=YES > sendmail_msp_queue_enable=YES > > will work but then I have to run a sendmail process. I found another > post that since 4.6 you have to run sendmail so as to accept mail > from localhost. > > Is this right? I'd rather not have to run the sendmail process on a > machine if I dont have to since I dont run sendmail as a process on > the 3 other FBSD machines we have around. Yes, it is right. The reasons behind the change are described in /usr/src/UPDATING. You should consult that file every time you upgrade for changes since the previous 4.X version :) Check the instructions in /etc/mail/README too. - Giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Mar 16 18:44:33 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E3F37B401 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from gumby.citytel.net (gumby.rupert.net [204.244.98.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF0843F75 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:44:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kwoody@citytel.net) Received: from pop.citytel.net (pop.citytel.net [204.244.98.50]) by gumby.citytel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D7923736D; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:44:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 18:44:30 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Woodworth To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 4.7 and Sendmail In-Reply-To: <20030316062755.GA9212@gothmog.gr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: |->> sendmail_enable=NO |->> sendmail_submit_enable=YES |->> sendmail_msp_queue_enable=YES |->> |->> will work but then I have to run a sendmail process. I found another |->> post that since 4.6 you have to run sendmail so as to accept mail |->> from localhost. |->> |->> Is this right? I'd rather not have to run the sendmail process on a |->> machine if I dont have to since I dont run sendmail as a process on |->> the 3 other FBSD machines we have around. |-> |->Yes, it is right. The reasons behind the change are described in |->/usr/src/UPDATING. You should consult that file every time you |->upgrade for changes since the previous 4.X version :) |-> |->Check the instructions in /etc/mail/README too. Thanks for the clarification and pointers to some docs. Kind of forgot that I posted that. Thanks, Keith To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Mar 16 23:22:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD74E37B401 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 23:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from tecpro.com (66.83.94.21.nw.nuvox.net [66.83.94.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4374F43FAF for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 23:22:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@tecpro.com) Received: by tecpro.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 6113A20F4F; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 02:35:24 -0500 (EST) To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: test message, pleas ignore Message-Id: <20030317073524.6113A20F4F@tecpro.com> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 02:35:24 -0500 (EST) From: root@tecpro.com (tecpro.com - Administrator) Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org test To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Mar 17 7: 6: 0 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96A237B401; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw.cscoms.com (mailgw.cscoms.com [202.183.255.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D8D43F3F; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from job2546@thaimail.com) Received: from cscoms.com (mail.cscoms.com [202.183.255.23]) by mailgw.cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2HF1ril061586; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:01:54 +0700 (ICT) Received: from ME (dial-144.ras-21.bkk.c.cscoms.com [203.170.145.144]) by cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h2HEpswo024885; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:51:55 +0700 (GMT) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:51:54 +0700 (GMT) Message-Id: <200303171451.h2HEpswo024885@cscoms.com> From: job2546@thaimail.com Subject: "¶éҤسÂѧ·ÓÊÔ觷Õè¤Ø³·ÓÍÂÙèÇѹ¹Õé ¾ÃØ觹Õé¡ç¨ÐàËÁ×͹Çѹ¹Õé X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Reply-To: job2546@thaimail.com X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="#MYBOUNDARY#" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --#MYBOUNDARY# Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ansi Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "ËÒ¡¤Ø³ÅéÁàËÅÇ·Õè¨ÐÇҧἹ ÂèÍÁá»ÅÇèҤسÇҧἹ·Õè¨ÐÅéÁàËÅÇ" ¨ÔÁ âÃËì¹ ¹Ñ¡»ÃѪ­ÒÍѹ´Ñº 1 ¢Í§âÅ¡ àªè¹ ¤Ø³¤Ô´ÇèÒ㹪ÕÇÔµ¹ÕéàÃÒ¤§äÁèÁÕ·Ò§ÃÇ ¤Ø³¡çä¨ÐäÁèÁÕ·Ò§ÃÇÂàÅ ËÃ×Í "¤Ø³¤Ô´ÇèÒÊÑ¡Çѹ¶Ö§©Ñ¹µéͧÃÇÂá¹èæ" ¨ÔÁ âÃËì¹ ºÍ¡ÇèÒ "¶éҤسÂѧ·ÓÊÔ觷Õè¤Ø³·ÓÍÂÙè·Ø¡Çѹ¹Õé ÍÕ¡ 3 »Õ¢éҧ˹éÒÅͧ¤Ô´´ÙÇèÒ ¤Ø³¨ÐÁÕâÍ¡ÒÊÃÇÂä´éËÃ×ÍäÁè" "¶éҤӵͺ¤×Í ãªè ¤Ø³¡ÓÅѧ¨ÐÃÇÂ" ¡çÂÔ¹´Õ¡Ñº¤Ø³´éǤÃѺ¤Ø³¡ÓÅѧ¨ÐÃÇÂáÅéÇ "áµè¶éҤӵͺ¤×Í äÁè ¤Ø³äÁèÊÒÁÒöÃÇÂä´é" ¤Ø³µéͧà»ÅÕè¹ÍÐäÃÊÑ¡ÍÂèҧ㹪ÕÇÔµ¤Ø³áÅéÇ ¨ÔÁ âÃËì¹ ºÍ¡ÍÕ¡ÇèÒ "¶éҤسÂѧ·ÓÊÔ觷Õè¤Ø³·ÓÍÂÙèÇѹ¹Õé ¾ÃØ觹Õé¡ç¨ÐàËÁ×͹Çѹ¹Õé ä»àÃ×èÍÂæäÁèÁÕ·ÕèÊÔé¹ÊØ´" ËÁÒ¤ÇÒÁÇèÒ -¶éÒÇѹ¹Õé¤Ø³ÂѧµéͧÇÔè§ËÒà§Ô¹ ¨èÒÂ˹ÕéµèÒ§æ -¶éÒÇѹ¹Õé¤Ø³Âѧ¶Ù¡à¨éÒ¹Ò¡´¢Õè ãªé§Ò¹ÍÂèҧ˹ѡ -¶éÒÇѹ¹Õé¤Ø³ÂѧËÒ·Ò§ÍÍ¡äÁèä´é Åͧà»Ô´âÍ¡ÒÊãËéµÑÇàͧ´Ù à»Ô´ã¨¢Í§¤Ø³ãËé¡ÇéÒ§áÅéÇà´Ô¹µÒÁàÃÒÁÒËÃ×Í»ÅèÍÂãËéâÍ¡ÒʹÕéËÅØ´ÅÍÂä» ============================================================ ¤Ø³ÊÒÁÒöà¢éÒä»´ÙÃÒÂÅÐàÍÕ´à¾ÔèÁàµÔÁáÅСÃÍ¡¢éÍÁÙÅà¾×èÍ¢ÍÃѺ¢éÍÁÙÅàº×éͧµé¹¿ÃÕ ! ä´é·Õè http://www.geocities.com/thaigetrich/easywork ============================================================ ¢ÍÍÀÑÂËÒ¡¢éͤÇÒÁ¹Õé¶Ù¡Êè§ä»Âѧ¤Ø³â´ÂºÑ§àÍÔ­ ËÒ¡¤Ø³äÁèµéͧ¡ÒÃÃѺ¢éͤÇÒÁ¹ÕéÍÕ¡¡ÃØ³Ò mail ÁÒ·Õè www.ecommerce.web1000.com/unsub --#MYBOUNDARY#-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Mar 18 1:18:56 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4509637B401 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 01:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx3.mail.ru (mx3.mail.ru [194.67.57.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC5743F3F for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 01:18:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ok@mail.ru) Received: from [212.248.4.186] (helo=ok) by mx3.mail.ru with smtp (Exim SMTP.3) id 18vCAK-000NeX-00 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:09:45 +0300 From: ok To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Ìå÷òà þííîãî ÷åëîâåêà!!! X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Reply-To: ok@mail.ru Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:10:10 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Çäðàâñòâóéòå! Ìíå 13 ëåò ó ìåíÿ åñòü ìå÷òà !!!! ïîïðîøó âàñ îòêëèêíóòüñÿ åñëè åñòü òàêàÿ âîçìîæíîñòü. http://www.zooook.narod.ru Ïðîøó ïðîùåíèÿ, åñëè îòíÿë ó âàñ âðåìÿ... Ñåðãåé To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Mar 18 3: 8:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0909337B401 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from candice.isogo.co.za (candice.isogo.co.za [196.15.191.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 938C943F75 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gideon@isogo.co.za) Received: (qmail 9153 invoked by uid 0); 18 Mar 2003 11:03:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO proxy) (196.15.191.2) by candice.isogo.co.za with SMTP; 18 Mar 2003 11:03:09 -0000 Message-ID: <002b01c2ed3e$b84a2f60$0a0a0a0a@proxy> From: " Gideon Oosthuysen" To: Subject: Leased line between FreeBSD (or debian) and windows 98 box Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:08:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heya Leased line setup as follows : [server] [modem] - 2 wireleased line - [modem][win98 client] I've been toying with this for about a week now and with no luck ? Although my efforts have been based on debian ... I am 99 % sure my failure to get this working seems to be my configuration of the win98 box . Getting this to work on a linux machine was very easy ... but for some reason i cant get it to work on win98 ? At present i am using "null modem" on the win98 . It gets to verifying username and password and then after 30 seconds it times out and complains the remote computer did not respond to a network request . On the linux side i get LCP config request timeouts .. I realise this seems off topic for a freebsd mailing list ... But my question is this ... Has anyone actualy succeeded in getting this to work ? And if you have can you please send me your config files ? Aswell as your win98 configuration ... Or just the win98 configuration would do . I've heard rumours that setting this up with win98 is actualy impossible ... but i would just like to make 100 % sure . Thanks in Advance Gideon Oosthuysen ps. Again i apologize for the off topic but i am desperate ... if this is indeed possible i will try and set it up with freebsd . I have tried asking for help from the linux community which replied install linux client , The Microsoft community said install Microsoft 2000 server and the Modem manufacturer refused to help since its not a hardware issue . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 6: 6:30 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392E137B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (user38.net339.fl.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCDE43F75 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:06:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bv@wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by bilver.wjv.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2JE5x6u016152 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:06:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h2JE5wvJ016151 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:05:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:05:57 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Message-ID: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.43 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K accounts and 50 virtual domains. He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. ISTR that I've seen many systems discussed on this list with user counts far higher than that running on BSD systems. Any pointers to references or a quick summary of your server for systems which match the above would be appreciated. Thanks. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 6:16:50 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D014B37B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.kiev.sovam.com (relay.kiev.sovam.com [212.109.32.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63A343FB1 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dimitry@al.org.ua) Received: from [212.109.32.116] (helo=dimitry.kiev.sovam.com) by relay.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #5) id 18veN1-0002LJ-00 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:16:43 +0200 From: Dmitry Alyabyev Reply-To: dimitry@al.org.ua To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:16:43 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> In-Reply-To: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> X-NCC-RegID: ua.svitonline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200303191616.43106.dimitry@al.org.ua> Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday 19 March 2003 16:05, Bill Vermillion wrote: > A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > accounts and 50 virtual domains. > > He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. > > ISTR that I've seen many systems discussed on this list with user > counts far higher than that running on BSD systems. > > Any pointers to references or a quick summary of your server > for systems which match the above would be appreciated. open-source: cyrus as mailbox-store, exim/postfix as MTA commercial: communigate -- Dimitry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 6:33:59 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5075B37B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:33:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from insmtp21.bt.net (insmtp21.bt.net [217.35.209.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA72C43FB1 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from simong@desktop-guardian.com) Received: from host213-122-192-165.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.192.165] helo=dtg19) by insmtp21.bt.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 18veW2-0007X9-00; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:26:02 +0000 Received: from dtg17 ([192.100.100.17]) by dtg19 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:32:04 +0000 Message-ID: <01bc01c2ee24$5893a6a0$116464c0@desktopguardian.com> From: "Simon Gray" To: , References: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> <200303191616.43106.dimitry@al.org.ua> Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:32:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > open-source: cyrus as mailbox-store, exim/postfix as MTA > commercial: communigate could try qmail that handles millions mailboxes >> www.qmail.org good doc here >> http://logicsquad.net/freebsd/qmail-how-to.html theres lots of companies that provide commercial support for it see www.qmail.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 6:57:31 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4C537B401; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw.cscoms.com (mailgw.cscoms.com [202.183.255.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52EC243F93; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wowwwhealthy@thaimail.com) Received: from cscoms.com (mail.cscoms.com [202.183.255.23]) by mailgw.cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2JEv0il004734; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:57:00 +0700 (ICT) Received: from ME (dial-255.ras-7.bkk.c.cscoms.com [203.170.141.193]) by cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h2JEqlwo000955; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:52:48 +0700 (GMT) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:52:47 +0700 (GMT) Message-Id: <200303191452.h2JEqlwo000955@cscoms.com> From: wowwwhealthy@thaimail.com Subject: ·èÒ¹·ÃÒºËÃ×ÍäÁèÇèÒ¤¹Íéǹ¨ÐàÊÕ觵èÍ¡ÒÃà»ç¹àºÒËÇÒ¹ÁÒ¡¡ÇèÒ¤¹¹éÓ˹ѡ»¡µÔ¶Ö§ 30 à·èÒ X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Reply-To: wowwwhealthy@thaimail.com X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="#MYBOUNDARY#" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) To: undisclosed-recipients: ; 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Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:21:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from wormhole.ev0.net (82.Red-80-32-205.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.32.205.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24CEE43FBF for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:21:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joan@ev0.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wormhole.ev0.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72EF89764; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:21:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from ev0.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wormhole.ev0.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 22E67B89; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:21:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from 172.23.1.202 (SquirrelMail authenticated user joan) by mail.ev0.net with HTTP; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:21:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <1418.172.23.1.202.1048087275.squirrel@mail.ev0.net> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:21:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server From: "Joan Cirer" To: In-Reply-To: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> References: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Cc: X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS new-20020517 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! > Any pointers to references or a quick summary of your server > for systems which match the above would be appreciated. I like a lot the setup described here: http://www.probsd.net/vmail/ Postfix + Courier Imap + Mysql + PHP administration tool that allows domain delegation. I've this setup running in a small (very small for you= r requirements) site with 10 domains for three weeks with no problem. On Debian-ISP mailinglist there are people with +500k users on Debian systems using Postfix and a LDAP backend (I think the Imap server is Courier but I'm not sure). Regards To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 8:36:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F5237B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from accounts.amigo.net (mail.amigo.net [209.94.64.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4C043FAF for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:36:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from randys@amigo.net) Received: from stalker.amigo.net (billing.amigo.net [209.94.67.250]) by accounts.amigo.net with esmtp; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:36:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:35:36 -0700 (MST) From: Randy Smith X-X-Sender: randy@stalker.amigo.net To: Bill Vermillion Cc: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server In-Reply-To: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> Message-ID: <20030319093023.P92133-100000@stalker.amigo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Bill Vermillion wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:05:57 -0500 > From: Bill Vermillion > To: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" > Subject: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server > > A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > accounts and 50 virtual domains. > > He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. > > ISTR that I've seen many systems discussed on this list with user > counts far higher than that running on BSD systems. > > Any pointers to references or a quick summary of your server > for systems which match the above would be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Bill I thought I'd throw in my two cents worth, too. I'm running a pure courier (mail/courier) + mysql setup on FreeBSD w/ 7300+ virtual users. In my case, I have two servers clustered to make spam/virus scanning nicer but you can use one server if you don't scan or use an efficient scanner. -- Randy Smith Amigo.Net Systems Administrator 1-719-589-6100 x 4185 http://www.amigo.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 10:17:25 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DE737B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [207.200.153.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257F543F75 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:17:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom (helo=localhost) by misery.sdf.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 18vgd1-00034F-00; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:41:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:41:10 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Bill Vermillion Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server In-Reply-To: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Bill Vermillion wrote: > A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > accounts and 50 virtual domains. > > He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. Well, if he wants to waste money.... 10 to 15K accounts is not a lot accounts. Plus, "Sun big iron" comes with such slow processors. For instance, the 2.4Ghz Xeon is going to be faster than any single Sun processor. You'll need a quad Ultrasparc to keep up with a basic dual Xeon (like Dell Poweredge 2650). > ISTR that I've seen many systems discussed on this list with user > counts far higher than that running on BSD systems. My /etc/master.passwd has 27,500 entries. This is on a dual P3-1Ghz. It is not really loaded. I will run out of disk space before, the CPUs get bogged down. > Any pointers to references or a quick summary of your server > for systems which match the above would be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Bill > -- > Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 10:22:17 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EDB137B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E425643F85 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:22:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fearow@attbi.com) Received: from god.woofcat.com (12-251-110-17.client.attbi.com[12.251.110.17]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51) with SMTP id <2003031918221505100mm909e>; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:22:15 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:21:53 -0600 From: Anti To: Randy Smith Cc: bv@wjv.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Message-Id: <20030319122153.4f9d75cb.fearow@attbi.com> In-Reply-To: <20030319093023.P92133-100000@stalker.amigo.net> References: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> <20030319093023.P92133-100000@stalker.amigo.net> Organization: Woofcat X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:35:36 -0700 (MST) Randy Smith wrote: > > I thought I'd throw in my two cents worth, too. > > I'm running a pure courier (mail/courier) + mysql setup on FreeBSD w/ > 7300+ virtual users. In my case, I have two servers clustered to make > spam/virus scanning nicer but you can use one server if you don't scan or > use an efficient scanner. yes courier is great... i hope you're not using the horribly outdated port version though? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 11: 1:10 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C8E37B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:01:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.lambertfam.org (www.lambertfam.org [216.223.196.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED6E43F85 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lambert@lambertfam.org) Received: from laptop.lambertfam.org (laptop.int.lambertfam.org [10.1.0.2]) by mail.lambertfam.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554C4351CA for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:01:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by laptop.lambertfam.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8947785DF; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:00:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:00:46 -0500 From: Scott Lambert To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Message-ID: <20030319190046.GA47230@laptop.lambertfam.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 09:05:57AM -0500, Bill Vermillion wrote: > A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > accounts and 50 virtual domains. > > He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. You're kidding, right? 19K dial-up ISP users (100+ virtual domains, not that the number of virtual domains matters) on a Dual 800Mhz PIII with 512MB RAM is very comfortable. Your disk I/O is the biggest issue. Add spindles. The number of users is not important. The users' proclivity to send and recieve e-mail is important. Scanning for virii/spam is important. Volume of traffic will determine your I/O subsystem. Whether you do virus/spam scanning or not will determine your CPU/RAM need. If you do virus/spam scanning, try to do the scanning on another host than your mail store. One with a big CPU and lots of RAM and an IDE disk is fine if you just want to run SpamAssassin. -- Scott Lambert KC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lambert@lambertfam.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 11:14:29 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128C437B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from gulliver.summitoh.net (cable-29-84.sssnet.com [24.140.29.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE6BF43F3F for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:14:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from watsonr@gulliver.summitoh.net) Received: (qmail 3266 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2003 19:14:25 -0000 Received: from scr-rtr.neo.rr.com (HELO rwdell) (204.210.223.195) by ghostwind.summitoh.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2003 19:14:25 -0000 Message-ID: <003c01c2ee4b$c1accb40$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> From: "Ryan Watson" To: "Tom Samplonius" Cc: References: Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:13:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Samplonius" To: "Bill Vermillion" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Bill Vermillion wrote: > > > A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > > accounts and 50 virtual domains. > > > > He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. > > Well, if he wants to waste money.... 10 to 15K accounts is not a lot > accounts. Plus, "Sun big iron" comes with such slow processors. For > instance, the 2.4Ghz Xeon is going to be faster than any single Sun > processor. You'll need a quad Ultrasparc to keep up with a basic dual > Xeon (like Dell Poweredge 2650). Do you have any reference for this? I happen to run both, and can tell you that the Sparcs even with a much lesser config will absolutely blow the Dell away. The Xeon is not a serious server chip. It is possible it might have an advantage with 32 bit apps, but most Sparcs run 64-bit apps. A single UltraSparc II will easily keep up with a Xeon. Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 11:39:38 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98DA37B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [207.200.153.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF8743FA3 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom (helo=localhost) by misery.sdf.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 18vhtt-0003nP-00; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:02:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:02:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Ryan Watson Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server In-Reply-To: <003c01c2ee4b$c1accb40$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Ryan Watson wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Bill Vermillion wrote: > > > > > A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > > > accounts and 50 virtual domains. > > > > > > He's thinking he needs to go with 'big iron' such as SUN. > > > > Well, if he wants to waste money.... 10 to 15K accounts is not a lot > > accounts. Plus, "Sun big iron" comes with such slow processors. For > > instance, the 2.4Ghz Xeon is going to be faster than any single Sun > > processor. You'll need a quad Ultrasparc to keep up with a basic dual > > Xeon (like Dell Poweredge 2650). > > Do you have any reference for this? I happen to run both, and can tell you > that the Sparcs even with a much lesser config will absolutely blow the Dell > away. The Xeon is not a serious server chip. It is possible it might have > an advantage with 32 bit apps, but most Sparcs run 64-bit apps. A single > UltraSparc II will easily keep up with a Xeon. > > Ryan Nice to ask for references, but not provide any yourself... The fastest Ultrasparc II is not faster than the fastest Xeon. There are plenty of processor benchmarks online. Come one: a 3Ghz CISC processor vs. a 1Ghz RISC processor? There is just no way. 32bit vs. 64bit is not really relevent. When you compile an application on US, the compiler will generate 64bit code on a US, and 32bit code on a Xeon. Which will run faster? The Xeon. The US can probably execute a few more instructions per cycle, but has a lot more instructions to execute (compare the size of US binaries to x86 binaries) and fewer cycles. Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 11:53:24 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D58537B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gulliver.summitoh.net (cable-29-84.sssnet.com [24.140.29.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A6EA43FA3 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:53:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from watsonr@gulliver.summitoh.net) Received: (qmail 3391 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2003 19:53:17 -0000 Received: from scr-rtr.neo.rr.com (HELO rwdell) (204.210.223.195) by ghostwind.summitoh.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2003 19:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <008c01c2ee51$2f8c22f0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> From: "Ryan Watson" To: "Tom Samplonius" Cc: References: Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:52:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Do you have any reference for this? I happen to run both, and can tell you > > that the Sparcs even with a much lesser config will absolutely blow the Dell > > away. The Xeon is not a serious server chip. It is possible it might have > > an advantage with 32 bit apps, but most Sparcs run 64-bit apps. A single > > UltraSparc II will easily keep up with a Xeon. > > > > Ryan > > Nice to ask for references, but not provide any yourself... > > The fastest Ultrasparc II is not faster than the fastest Xeon. There > are plenty of processor benchmarks online. Come one: a 3Ghz CISC > processor vs. a 1Ghz RISC processor? There is just no way. > > 32bit vs. 64bit is not really relevent. When you compile an application > on US, the compiler will generate 64bit code on a US, and 32bit code on a > Xeon. Which will run faster? The Xeon. The US can probably execute a > few more instructions per cycle, but has a lot more instructions to > execute (compare the size of US binaries to x86 binaries) and fewer > cycles. I'm quite glad you're not the admin here in our data center. There is a huge difference between 32bit, and 64bit. Also, the US won't automatically compile 64bit code. It's completely dependent on the compiler you're using. Often you'll want to compile both 32bit binaries, and 64bit binaries. The Xeon has a max addressable memory of 4Gigs (because it's 32bit). I'm certainly not saying that 10-15k mail users need a full fledged Sun box, however if you intend to do any serious Oracle work, or serve an enterprise you'd lose your job quickly if you set it all up with a Xeon. The US should automatically do twice as much data as the Xeon during one clock cycle, that's if everything else is even, however it's not. The Xeon is designed for clock speed (really deep pipelines, but not many of them), the US is designed for computational speed at the sacrifice of clock cycles (ie: they're not trying to woo consumers) with lots of pipelines. Also, if you put significant load on the Xeon it'll come crawling to a stop, whereas the US will keep churning along. Even people in the Intel server business don't take the Xeon seriously, that's why they go with the Itanium. Ask Intel whether the Xeon or Itanium is faster, and I'll tell you already that thus far an Itanium can't touch an US. Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 13:33:52 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6BD37B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rivendell.unixhosts.net (rivendell.unixhosts.net [150.101.60.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F4F43FAF for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from greg@hurrell.cc) Received: from hurrell.cc (dsl-202-45-118-39.SA.netspace.net.au [202.45.118.39]) (AUTH: LOGIN greg@hurrell.cc) by rivendell.unixhosts.net with esmtp; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:03:45 +1030 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:03:41 +1030 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: [OT] Unsubscribing due to spam From: Greg Hurrell To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <741171F3-5A52-11D7-A61F-000393BC25EC@hurrell.cc> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry to say it, but due to the high volume of spam I am receiving on this list I am unsubscribing. The policy of allowing non-subscribers to post (which applies to the majority of FreeBSD mailing lists) means that those lists now generate the majority of all my spam traffic. Many of these spam messages have as their Return-Path "owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG" (etc, depending on the list) and so this means I can't even block repeat offenders at the SMTP server based on the Return-Path. I've made these protests before and have always been told that the policy is not going to change, but in the year 2003 and with the spam problem the way it is, I just can't see any justification for allowing this "accept all-comers" policy to continue. In order to provide people with the convenience of posting from anywhere at any time, you are also affording these spammers with the convenience of an efficient, consequence-free mass-distribution mechanism for their unwanted and annoying spam. If people are subscribed to these lists and want to read the replies their need access to the subscribed email account anyway. If people are not subscribed and want answers, well perhaps they should be subscribing too. Anyway, this is, regretfully, adios (and goodbye to all of my subscriptions but freebsd-announce for this very reason). Cheers, Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 14:17:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D997437B404 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from users.munk.nu (213-152-51-194.dsl.eclipse.net.uk [213.152.51.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ADFB43FA3 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:17:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from munk@users.munk.nu) Received: from users.munk.nu (munk@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by users.munk.nu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2JMHfva008345 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:17:41 GMT (envelope-from munk@users.munk.nu) Received: (from munk@localhost) by users.munk.nu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2JMHfk0008344 for freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:17:41 GMT Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:17:41 +0000 From: Jez Hancock To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [OT] Unsubscribing due to spam Message-ID: <20030319221741.GB8142@users.munk.nu> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG References: <741171F3-5A52-11D7-A61F-000393BC25EC@hurrell.cc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <741171F3-5A52-11D7-A61F-000393BC25EC@hurrell.cc> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 08:03:41AM +1030, Greg Hurrell wrote: > Sorry to say it, but due to the high volume of spam I am receiving on > this list I am unsubscribing. Sorry to see you go - thanks for your advise on vhosting in the past. Jez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 17:32:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A49437B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw1-out.MEIway.com (mgw1.meiway.com [212.73.210.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAFE43FDF for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from LConrad@Go2France.com) Received: from VirusGate.MEIway.com (virus-gate.meiway.com [212.73.210.91]) by mgw1-out.MEIway.com (Postfix Relay Hub) with ESMTP id 3BE68EF9C6 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:16:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost.meiway.com [127.0.0.1]) by VirusGate.MEIway.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C73F5D009 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:36:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.Go2France.com (ms1.meiway.com [212.73.210.73]) by VirusGate.MEIway.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39935D008 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:36:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from tx0-go2france-c.Go2France.com [24.242.169.51] by mail.Go2France.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AEA79390106; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:51:35 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030319184158.02da2ba8@mail.go2france.com> X-Sender: LConrad@Go2France.com@mail.go2france.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:32:29 -0600 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Len Conrad Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server In-Reply-To: <20030319140557.GA16125@wjv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K >accounts and 50 virtual domains. >Any pointers to references or a quick summary of your server >for systems which match the above would be appreciated. You've got some good pointers on the mailbox servers, but nobody talked about an multi-box architecture, which is the key to scaleability and reliability. 1. dedicated box as SMTP gateway. 2. dedicated AV box 3. mailbox server, muchly liberated because no anti-mail abuse, no DNS query delay, no retrying of delayed mail, no AV scanning, and 50+% of the inbound mail rejected at the envelope by 1. The performance key to all three is, given enough RAM to avoid all swapping, in disk i/o. With separate controllers+disks for logging, mailqueue, and mailbox storage. And you need RAID (internal redundancy) only on boxes where you can't have external redundancy (the MX boxes done't need RAID). and RAID1 not RAID5. Len To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 19:37: 5 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F75B37B404 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:37:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from gulliver.summitoh.net (cable-29-84.sssnet.com [24.140.29.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E938A43F93 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:37:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from watsonr@gulliver.summitoh.net) Received: (qmail 4200 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2003 03:37:02 -0000 Received: from rwwin.summitoh.net (HELO rwwin) (172.16.36.5) by ghostwind.summitoh.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2003 03:37:02 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c2ee91$f87040d0$052410ac@rwwin> From: "Ryan Watson" To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030319184158.02da2ba8@mail.go2france.com> Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:37:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You've got some good pointers on the mailbox servers, but nobody talked > about an multi-box architecture, which is the key to scaleability and > reliability. > > 1. dedicated box as SMTP gateway. > > 2. dedicated AV box > > 3. mailbox server, muchly liberated because no anti-mail abuse, no DNS > query delay, no retrying of delayed mail, no AV scanning, and 50+% of the > inbound mail rejected at the envelope by 1. > > The performance key to all three is, given enough RAM to avoid all > swapping, in disk i/o. With separate controllers+disks for logging, > mailqueue, and mailbox storage. And you need RAID (internal redundancy) > only on boxes where you can't have external redundancy (the MX boxes done't > need RAID). > > and RAID1 not RAID5. > I couldn't agree more. Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 21: 9:59 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C08F37B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [207.200.153.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC5743FA3 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom (helo=localhost) by misery.sdf.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 18vqoW-0001jS-00; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:33:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:33:55 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Ryan Watson Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server In-Reply-To: <008c01c2ee51$2f8c22f0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Ryan Watson wrote: > > Nice to ask for references, but not provide any yourself... > > > > The fastest Ultrasparc II is not faster than the fastest Xeon. There > > are plenty of processor benchmarks online. Come one: a 3Ghz CISC > > processor vs. a 1Ghz RISC processor? There is just no way. > > > > 32bit vs. 64bit is not really relevent. When you compile an application > > on US, the compiler will generate 64bit code on a US, and 32bit code on a > > Xeon. Which will run faster? The Xeon. The US can probably execute a > > few more instructions per cycle, but has a lot more instructions to > > execute (compare the size of US binaries to x86 binaries) and fewer > > cycles. > > I'm quite glad you're not the admin here in our data center. There is a > huge difference between 32bit, and 64bit. Also, the US won't automatically > compile 64bit code. It's completely dependent on the compiler you're using. > Often you'll want to compile both 32bit binaries, and 64bit binaries. The > Xeon has a max addressable memory of 4Gigs (because it's 32bit). I'm You should probably look that up. Even the lowly Dell Poweredge 2650 has a 8GB memory limit. > certainly not saying that 10-15k mail users need a full fledged Sun box, > however if you intend to do any serious Oracle work, or serve an enterprise > you'd lose your job quickly if you set it all up with a Xeon. The US should > automatically do twice as much data as the Xeon during one clock cycle, > that's if everything else is even, however it's not. The Xeon is designed > for clock speed (really deep pipelines, but not many of them), the US is > designed for computational speed at the sacrifice of clock cycles (ie: > they're not trying to woo consumers) with lots of pipelines. Also, if you > put significant load on the Xeon it'll come crawling to a stop, whereas the > US will keep churning along. Even people in the Intel server business don't > take the Xeon seriously, that's why they go with the Itanium. Ask Intel > whether the Xeon or Itanium is faster, and I'll tell you already that thus > far an Itanium can't touch an US. If you just flip the meaning of everything above, it sounds right. * The Itanium has no signficant server market share. No one except HP is even comitted to Itanium. * Lots of enterprises use Xeon (or even just P3/P4) boxes becuase with n-tier apps, individual server performance is unimportant. Look at the statements from Google's CTO on processors. Brace yourself, their enterprise is definitely bigger than yours, and has no ultrasparcs. And look, they all have jobs! And look, Dell has just announced that "Unix (they mean Solaris) is dead", and they are moving their Oracle supply chain app to intel boxes. * 64 bit doesn't mean that you automatically go twice as fast. It simply means your registers are bigger, so certain operations are faster. x86 processors fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks already. * As far as Sparc goes, they're out of money. They keep talking about a Ultrasparc III processor (3i, I believe) that is supposed to be a "Xeon killer". A year later, and well... * Put significant load on a Xeon, and it comes crawling to a stop? What does this mean? Lots of context switches? A processor is always executing, so it has no real concept of a little or lot of load. > Ryan Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 21:15:54 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A365037B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ashram.rhavenn.net (ashram.rhavenn.net [209.150.195.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0310143F75 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhavenn@rhavenn.net) Received: from 172.20.0.144 (unknown [172.20.0.144]) by ashram.rhavenn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBD92A848; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:29:05 -0600 (CST) From: Henrik Hudson Reply-To: rhavenn@rhavenn.net To: Tom Samplonius , Ryan Watson Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:15:40 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200303192315.40505.rhavenn@rhavenn.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday 19 March 2003 21:33, Tom Samplonius wrote: > * Put significant load on a Xeon, and it comes crawling to a stop? What > does this mean? Lots of context switches? A processor is always > executing, so it has no real concept of a little or lot of load. I think this has one hell of a lot more to do with the OS one is running. Put a load on Windows and it will come to a screaching halt and implodes on itself, but Solaris keeps on chugging, just slower. -- Henrik Hudson rhavenn@rhavenn.net You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help." Calvin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 22:24:20 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C40C37B404; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.3tec.com (ns1.3tec.com [66.48.86.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1715A43FA3; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:24:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from domainadmin@3tec.com) Received: from ns1.3tec.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns1.3tec.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2K6OFWG002596; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:24:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from domainadmin@3tec.com) Received: from localhost (domainadmin@localhost) by ns1.3tec.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h2K6OF25002593; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:24:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.3tec.com: domainadmin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:24:15 -0500 (EST) From: Domain Administrator To: freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG, Subject: Multiple Internet connection with failover/load-balancing Message-ID: <20030320010036.P2559-100000@ns1.3tec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, We've been offering commercial Internet failover/load-balancing products to our clients, but we occasionally receive requests by some clients to provide less costly solution. While full redundancy for both inbound and outbound traffic will require BGP or OSPF, these clients simply wish to join multiple Internet connections (DSL, ISDN or T1) from different providers to gain failover capability should one of their links failed. Without ISPs' support, this type of redundancy only applies to outbound traffic, but that will suffice the clients' requirements already. I searched through the mailing lists and forums but found only very limited resources on how to accomplish such gateway/firewall setup using FreeBSD (or other BSD). It seeems for this type of setup requires running of multiple NAT daemons. Has anyone done something like this? or point me to any HOW-TOs? Thank you all for your input. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 22:34:37 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C94537B401 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from swisseasy.net (dns1.swisseasy.net [195.134.144.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAEC843FBD for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arie@gerszt.ch) Received: (qmail 79723 invoked by uid 85); 20 Mar 2003 05:50:14 -0000 Received: from arie@gerszt.ch by caramba.gerszt.ch by uid 82 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.66 NSV. spamassassin: 2.44. Clear:. Processed in 1.530109 secs); 20 Mar 2003 05:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO DELLARIE) (212.41.70.161) by mail.swisseasy.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2003 05:50:13 -0000 From: "Arie J. Gerszt" To: "Domain Administrator" , , Subject: AW: Multiple Internet connection with failover/load-balancing Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:34:28 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20030320010036.P2559-100000@ns1.3tec.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Mike I tried it, am still trying it (low priority task) and still did not achieve it. It is hard and very complex. I found some products which could do it. The least costly (don't know how well) is the Nexland Turbo Pro or so router, which is meant to do just that. Search their website, you'll see. I was contacted by a company which sells a software doing that too. Price with a box is approx. 10k USD, so quite expensive. But they have a GUI, which makes life for administrators sometimes easier. The biggest problem seems to detect the failure of one link. Ie. if you have your freebsd box with 3 NICs, nic1 -> isp1 via cable; nic2 -> isp2 via adsl; nic3 -> to your lan or whatever. Both ISPs will have some CPE at your location, probably your adsl modem and the cable tv modem. If now one link fails, say the cable link, this will have in 99.9% of the cases no impact between your cable modem and your freebsd box, so the link between the freebsd box and your CPE of the cable isp will stay up. That's the hard trick now, to detect, that the cable link has failed. Some products, as Radware's Linkproof, have own algorithms to track such a failure down. A basic load sharing with no failover redundance can be made (to what I under- stand) by adding 2 default routes, with the same metric. But that is not all you'd want or need. Just technically speaking, I think you could do that: - box with 3 nics - nat and 2 default routes - cron job, which runs every 10secs which detects a link fail --> remove the appropriate route from the routing table. Ok, now you have a failover box. But you still have your single point of failure, it's the freebsd box itself. Ok, now you could come up with some heartbeat or other HA full clustered solution. In the end, you buy so much hardware and you'd use so much time, that it might me simplier, hassle-free and just cheaper, to buy a 10k USD box, even if you might find a cheaper one on ebay et al. Regards Arie -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG]Im Auftrag von Domain Administrator Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Marz 2003 07:24 An: freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Betreff: Multiple Internet connection with failover/load-balancing Hello all, We've been offering commercial Internet failover/load-balancing products to our clients, but we occasionally receive requests by some clients to provide less costly solution. While full redundancy for both inbound and outbound traffic will require BGP or OSPF, these clients simply wish to join multiple Internet connections (DSL, ISDN or T1) from different providers to gain failover capability should one of their links failed. Without ISPs' support, this type of redundancy only applies to outbound traffic, but that will suffice the clients' requirements already. I searched through the mailing lists and forums but found only very limited resources on how to accomplish such gateway/firewall setup using FreeBSD (or other BSD). It seeems for this type of setup requires running of multiple NAT daemons. Has anyone done something like this? or point me to any HOW-TOs? Thank you all for your input. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Mar 19 23:26:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C96637B401; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.3tec.com (ns1.3tec.com [66.48.86.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BBA043F93; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from domainadmin@3tec.com) Received: from ns1.3tec.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns1.3tec.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2K7QdWG002709; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:26:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from domainadmin@3tec.com) Received: from localhost (domainadmin@localhost) by ns1.3tec.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h2K7Qcli002706; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:26:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.3tec.com: domainadmin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:26:38 -0500 (EST) From: Domain Administrator To: "Arie J. Gerszt" Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Subject: Re: AW: Multiple Internet connection with failover/load-balancing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030320020449.L2682-100000@ns1.3tec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hellow Arie, I came across Nexland Turbo product and other packaged software solutions such as StoneGate (www.stonesoft.com) and ePipe ServerWare (www.ml-ip.com). The only downside about Nexland is that it only comes with 2 WAN ports, otherwise it's a pretty cost effective solution. The packages software solutions aren't limited to the number of NICs used for WAN, but they all come with VPN support built-in, something that adds extra dollars to the pricing, but not needed by clients (some already have VPN). I'm still evaluating and comparing which solution we want to go with, as well as time and costs. It would be nice if some insiders from Nexland or StoneGate post their HOW-TOs... Thanks for your valuable information Arie. Mike -- > Hi Mike > > I tried it, am still trying it (low priority task) and still did not achieve > it. > It is hard and very complex. I found some products which could do it. The > least > costly (don't know how well) is the Nexland Turbo Pro or so router, which is > meant to do just that. Search their website, you'll see. > > I was contacted by a company which sells a software doing that too. Price > with > a box is approx. 10k USD, so quite expensive. But they have a GUI, which > makes > life for administrators sometimes easier. > > The biggest problem seems to detect the failure of one link. Ie. if you have > your freebsd box with 3 NICs, nic1 -> isp1 via cable; nic2 -> isp2 via adsl; > nic3 -> to your lan or whatever. > > Both ISPs will have some CPE at your location, probably your adsl modem and > the > cable tv modem. > > If now one link fails, say the cable link, this will have in 99.9% of the > cases > no impact between your cable modem and your freebsd box, so the link between > the freebsd box and your CPE of the cable isp will stay up. That's the hard > trick now, to detect, that the cable link has failed. > > Some products, as Radware's Linkproof, have own algorithms to track such a > failure > down. > > A basic load sharing with no failover redundance can be made (to what I > under- > stand) by adding 2 default routes, with the same metric. But that is not all > you'd > want or need. > > Just technically speaking, I think you could do that: > > - box with 3 nics > - nat and 2 default routes > - cron job, which runs every 10secs which detects a link fail --> remove > the > appropriate route from the routing table. > > Ok, now you have a failover box. But you still have your single point of > failure, it's > the freebsd box itself. Ok, now you could come up with some heartbeat or > other HA > full clustered solution. > > In the end, you buy so much hardware and you'd use so much time, that it > might me simplier, > hassle-free and just cheaper, to buy a 10k USD box, even if you might find a > cheaper one > on ebay et al. > > Regards > Arie > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG]Im Auftrag von Domain > Administrator > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Marz 2003 07:24 > An: freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG > Betreff: Multiple Internet connection with failover/load-balancing > > > Hello all, > > We've been offering commercial Internet failover/load-balancing products > to our clients, but we occasionally receive requests by some clients > to provide less costly solution. While full redundancy for both > inbound and outbound traffic will require BGP or OSPF, these clients > simply wish to join multiple Internet connections (DSL, ISDN or T1) from > different providers to gain failover capability should one of their > links failed. Without ISPs' support, this type of redundancy only applies > to outbound traffic, but that will suffice the clients' requirements > already. > > I searched through the mailing lists and forums but found only very > limited resources on how to accomplish such gateway/firewall setup using > FreeBSD (or other BSD). It seeems for this type of setup requires > running of multiple NAT daemons. Has anyone done something like this? or > point me to any HOW-TOs? > > Thank you all for your input. > > Mike > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 4:32:22 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E102E37B401 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 04:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from gulliver.summitoh.net (cable-29-84.sssnet.com [24.140.29.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D2D2143F85 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 04:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from watsonr@gulliver.summitoh.net) Received: (qmail 5530 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2003 12:32:14 -0000 Received: from scr-rtr.neo.rr.com (HELO rwdell) (204.210.223.195) by ghostwind.summitoh.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2003 12:32:14 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c2eedc$bc1c1cd0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> From: "Ryan Watson" To: "Tom Samplonius" Cc: References: Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:31:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You should probably look that up. Even the lowly Dell Poweredge 2650 > has a 8GB memory limit. That's because it's more than one CPU, each x86 can address only 4Gigs. Trust me on this one, it's physics. BTW, are you a Dell salesperson? Sit down with a piece of paper, and figure out what the largest number you can come up with, with only 32 bits? Oh yeah, that means you do it with a base of 2, not 10. > If you just flip the meaning of everything above, it sounds right. > > * The Itanium has no signficant server market share. No one except HP > is even comitted to Itanium. Dell is commited to Itanium, in case you missed it. > > * Lots of enterprises use Xeon (or even just P3/P4) boxes becuase with > n-tier apps, individual server performance is unimportant. Look at the > statements from Google's CTO on processors. Brace yourself, their > enterprise is definitely bigger than yours, and has no ultrasparcs. And > look, they all have jobs! And look, Dell has just announced that "Unix > (they mean Solaris) is dead", and they are moving their Oracle supply > chain app to intel boxes. Google does it with something called Beowolf clustering, which means they're taking the power of lots of machines and using it as one, a much different beast entirely. Also, Google does have sparcs, not many, but they do have them. As for Dell announcing that "Unix is Dead", buy a clue. Dell would say that because Dell doesn't make money from Unix. Dell is MS's schill, so they'll say whatever Bill tells them to. Dell isn't moving their Oracle supply chain app to intel, Dell doesn't do anything but Intel anyhow, and if they were running a Unix system for their supply chain, that's even more proof of the superiority of *nix over Windows. > > * 64 bit doesn't mean that you automatically go twice as fast. It simply > means your registers are bigger, so certain operations are faster. x86 > processors fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks already. > x86's do not fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks. You tell me what bus in a PC is 64 or even 128bits wide? The PCI bus in a PC is 32bits wide. You still run Windows 3.1 don't you? Because there's no difference between 16bit and 32bit, right? > * As far as Sparc goes, they're out of money. They keep talking about a > Ultrasparc III processor (3i, I believe) that is supposed to be a "Xeon > killer". A year later, and well... > You may bring whatever Xeon you want here to Akron, Ohio, and try it against our 2 V880's. You'll never keep up. The Windows geek has tried this about 10 times by now, and each time lost. For instance... we both attempted to create the real estate DB with Oracle. It's a db of about 8 gigs. It took the Dell PowerEdge about 5 hours to complete, it took the V880 about 16 minutes. See this when reading below as well because this is what I'm talking about when I mean load. You really should invest in some college courses. Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 6: 7:31 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6037A37B401 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:07:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 508DE43F93 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeff@mercury.jorsm.com) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A6D511E16B2 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:07:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from jorsm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.jorsm.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 559B11E16A1 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:07:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from 66.170.163.124 (SquirrelMail authenticated user jeff) by webmail.jorsm.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:07:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <23992.66.170.163.124.1048169246.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:07:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server From: "Jeff Lynch" To: In-Reply-To: <001d01c2eedc$bc1c1cd0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> References: <001d01c2eedc$bc1c1cd0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Reply-To: jeff@mercury.jorsm.com X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Die thread, die! --jeff Ryan Watson said: > >> You should probably look that up. Even the lowly Dell Poweredge >> 2650 >> has a 8GB memory limit. > > That's because it's more than one CPU, each x86 can address only 4Gigs. > Trust me on this one, it's physics. BTW, are you a Dell salesperson? > Sit down with a piece of paper, and figure out what the largest number > you can come up with, with only 32 bits? Oh yeah, that means you do it > with a base of 2, not 10. > >> If you just flip the meaning of everything above, it sounds right. >> >> * The Itanium has no signficant server market share. No one except HP >> is even comitted to Itanium. > > Dell is commited to Itanium, in case you missed it. > >> >> * Lots of enterprises use Xeon (or even just P3/P4) boxes becuase with >> n-tier apps, individual server performance is unimportant. Look at >> the statements from Google's CTO on processors. Brace yourself, their >> enterprise is definitely bigger than yours, and has no ultrasparcs. >> And look, they all have jobs! And look, Dell has just announced that >> "Unix (they mean Solaris) is dead", and they are moving their Oracle >> supply chain app to intel boxes. > > Google does it with something called Beowolf clustering, which means > they're taking the power of lots of machines and using it as one, a much > different beast entirely. Also, Google does have sparcs, not many, but > they do have them. As for Dell announcing that "Unix is Dead", buy a > clue. Dell would say that because Dell doesn't make money from Unix. > Dell is MS's schill, so they'll say whatever Bill tells them to. Dell > isn't moving their Oracle supply chain app to intel, Dell doesn't do > anything but Intel anyhow, and if they were running a Unix system for > their supply chain, that's even more proof of the superiority of *nix > over Windows. > >> >> * 64 bit doesn't mean that you automatically go twice as fast. It >> simply means your registers are bigger, so certain operations are >> faster. x86 processors fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks already. >> > > x86's do not fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks. You tell me what bus > in a PC is 64 or even 128bits wide? The PCI bus in a PC is 32bits wide. > You still run Windows 3.1 don't you? Because there's no difference > between 16bit and 32bit, right? > >> * As far as Sparc goes, they're out of money. They keep talking about >> a Ultrasparc III processor (3i, I believe) that is supposed to be a >> "Xeon killer". A year later, and well... >> > > You may bring whatever Xeon you want here to Akron, Ohio, and try it > against our 2 V880's. You'll never keep up. The Windows geek has tried > this about 10 times by now, and each time lost. For instance... we > both attempted to create the real estate DB with Oracle. It's a db of > about 8 gigs. It took the Dell PowerEdge about 5 hours to complete, it > took the V880 about 16 minutes. See this when reading below as well > because this is what I'm talking about when I mean load. You really > should invest in some college courses. > > Ryan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 6:16:42 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465EC37B401 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp2.surewest.net (eth0.smtp2.surewest.net [66.60.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BE8C43F3F for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:16:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avoozl@rcsis.com) Received: (qmail 14164 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2003 14:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avoozl) (66.60.134.178) by smtp2.surewest.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2003 14:16:36 -0000 Message-ID: <000601c2eeeb$516eb410$02fea8c0@avoozl> From: "Chris Willoughby" To: Cc: References: <001d01c2eedc$bc1c1cd0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> <23992.66.170.163.124.1048169246.squirrel@webmail.jorsm.com> Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 06:16:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 X-TST: SMTP2 SNWK Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about testing with Alphas or Opterons? When you can find them.. ; ) Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Lynch" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 6:07 AM Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server > Die thread, die! > > --jeff > > > Ryan Watson said: > > > >> You should probably look that up. Even the lowly Dell Poweredge > >> 2650 > >> has a 8GB memory limit. > > > > That's because it's more than one CPU, each x86 can address only 4Gigs. > > Trust me on this one, it's physics. BTW, are you a Dell salesperson? > > Sit down with a piece of paper, and figure out what the largest number > > you can come up with, with only 32 bits? Oh yeah, that means you do it > > with a base of 2, not 10. > > > >> If you just flip the meaning of everything above, it sounds right. > >> > >> * The Itanium has no signficant server market share. No one except HP > >> is even comitted to Itanium. > > > > Dell is commited to Itanium, in case you missed it. > > > >> > >> * Lots of enterprises use Xeon (or even just P3/P4) boxes becuase with > >> n-tier apps, individual server performance is unimportant. Look at > >> the statements from Google's CTO on processors. Brace yourself, their > >> enterprise is definitely bigger than yours, and has no ultrasparcs. > >> And look, they all have jobs! And look, Dell has just announced that > >> "Unix (they mean Solaris) is dead", and they are moving their Oracle > >> supply chain app to intel boxes. > > > > Google does it with something called Beowolf clustering, which means > > they're taking the power of lots of machines and using it as one, a much > > different beast entirely. Also, Google does have sparcs, not many, but > > they do have them. As for Dell announcing that "Unix is Dead", buy a > > clue. Dell would say that because Dell doesn't make money from Unix. > > Dell is MS's schill, so they'll say whatever Bill tells them to. Dell > > isn't moving their Oracle supply chain app to intel, Dell doesn't do > > anything but Intel anyhow, and if they were running a Unix system for > > their supply chain, that's even more proof of the superiority of *nix > > over Windows. > > > >> > >> * 64 bit doesn't mean that you automatically go twice as fast. It > >> simply means your registers are bigger, so certain operations are > >> faster. x86 processors fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks already. > >> > > > > x86's do not fetch data in 64bit or 128bit chunks. You tell me what bus > > in a PC is 64 or even 128bits wide? The PCI bus in a PC is 32bits wide. > > You still run Windows 3.1 don't you? Because there's no difference > > between 16bit and 32bit, right? > > > >> * As far as Sparc goes, they're out of money. They keep talking about > >> a Ultrasparc III processor (3i, I believe) that is supposed to be a > >> "Xeon killer". A year later, and well... > >> > > > > You may bring whatever Xeon you want here to Akron, Ohio, and try it > > against our 2 V880's. You'll never keep up. The Windows geek has tried > > this about 10 times by now, and each time lost. For instance... we > > both attempted to create the real estate DB with Oracle. It's a db of > > about 8 gigs. It took the Dell PowerEdge about 5 hours to complete, it > > took the V880 about 16 minutes. See this when reading below as well > > because this is what I'm talking about when I mean load. You really > > should invest in some college courses. > > > > Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 7:29:43 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A50D437B404 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E77043F3F for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from geraerts.jo@skynet.be) Received: from ernie.lan.net (74.164-201-80.adsl.skynet.be [80.201.164.74]) by picard.skynet.be (8.12.8/8.12.8/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id h2KFTSEI005191; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:29:28 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Received: from jgeraert by ernie.lan.net with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18w1yu-0000Ne-00; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:29:24 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:29:24 +0100 From: Jo Geraerts To: Tom Samplonius Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Message-ID: <20030320152924.GA382@ernie.lan.net> References: <008c01c2ee51$2f8c22f0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 07:33:55PM -0800, Tom Samplonius wrote: > > Often you'll want to compile both 32bit binaries, and 64bit binaries. The > > Xeon has a max addressable memory of 4Gigs (because it's 32bit). I'm > You should probably look that up. Even the lowly Dell Poweredge 2650 > has a 8GB memory limit. Since the PIII (not quite sure) intel introduced Extended paging. Since then these chips have 36 address pins. So it can use 2^36 bytes memory. But i think this whole discussion is useless because we are comparing diffrent architectures. I've no experience with sparcs but i guess it has it's advantages for some applications over a x86. But the other way arround it's also true. Intel creates performance by pushing the clock to the limit, sun creates performance by using it's head and making the architecture more performant. If they could speed up the clockspeed to the same level as intel does, i think it can easily outperform intel. But intel has one big advantage. They are cheap. Greetz, Jo -- /****************************************************************** * Geraerts Jo * Politics: * * geraerts.jo@skynet.be * Poly: many * * http://users.skynet.be/ernie * Ticks: blood sucking parasites * ******************************************************************/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 7:35:17 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA26437B404 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from durendal.skynet.be (durendal.skynet.be [195.238.3.91]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D570543F3F for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:35:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from geraerts.jo@skynet.be) Received: from ernie.lan.net (74.164-201-80.adsl.skynet.be [80.201.164.74]) by durendal.skynet.be (8.12.8/8.12.8/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id h2KFYwUS012582 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:34:58 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Received: from jgeraert by ernie.lan.net with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18w24F-0000Pe-00 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:34:55 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:34:55 +0100 From: Jo Geraerts To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Message-ID: <20030320153455.GB382@ernie.lan.net> References: <001d01c2eedc$bc1c1cd0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001d01c2eedc$bc1c1cd0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 07:31:46AM -0500, Ryan Watson wrote: > That's because it's more than one CPU, each x86 can address only 4Gigs. > Trust me on this one, it's physics. No way. They are using the same adress space. Otherwise it's kind of useless you have multiple cpu's if they can't access the same address space. Then you better can buy seperate computers. Greetz, Jo -- /****************************************************************** * Geraerts Jo * Politics: * * geraerts.jo@skynet.be * Poly: many * * http://users.skynet.be/ernie * Ticks: blood sucking parasites * ******************************************************************/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 7:36:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EE937B404 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from accounts.amigo.net (smtp.amigo.net [209.94.64.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FB143F93 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:36:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from randys@amigo.net) Received: from stalker.amigo.net (billing.amigo.net [209.94.67.250]) by accounts.amigo.net with esmtp; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:36:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:35:35 -0700 (MST) From: Randy Smith X-X-Sender: randy@stalker.amigo.net To: Anti Cc: "bv@wjv.com" , "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server In-Reply-To: <20030319122153.4f9d75cb.fearow@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20030320083141.D92133-100000@stalker.amigo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, Anti wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:21:53 -0600 > From: Anti > To: Randy Smith > Cc: "bv@wjv.com" , > "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" > Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:35:36 -0700 (MST) > Randy Smith wrote: > > > > I thought I'd throw in my two cents worth, too. > > > > I'm running a pure courier (mail/courier) + mysql setup on FreeBSD w/ > > 7300+ virtual users. In my case, I have two servers clustered to make > > spam/virus scanning nicer but you can use one server if you don't scan or > > use an efficient scanner. > > > yes courier is great... i hope you're not using the horribly outdated > port version though? > Actually, I am. However, the port will be updated (under a new maintainer) after the 4.8 code freeze, according to the courier-users mail list. -- Randy Smith Amigo.Net Systems Administrator 1-719-589-6100 x 4185 http://www.amigo.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Mar 20 21: 0:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC5C37B401 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:00:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from usenet.isot.com (usenet.isot.com [63.161.224.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4184643F75 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:00:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from squirrel@isot.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by usenet.isot.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h2L55t335925 for freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:05:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from squirrel@isot.com) X-Authentication-Warning: usenet.isot.com: www set sender to squirrel@isot.com using -f Received: from 63.161.239.70 ( [63.161.239.70]) as user freebsd@isot.com by webmail.isot.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:05:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1048223155.3e7a9db328f2e@webmail.isot.com> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:05:55 -0600 From: Squirrel User Reply-To: song@isot.com To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FBSD 5.0 Installation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1-cvs X-Originating-IP: 63.161.239.70 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm installing FBSD 5.0 on Promise FastTrak100-Tx2 ATAPI Raid controller with two 20G drives mirrored. During installation, sysinstall shows three disks; ad4, ad6, and ar0. I'm assuming the ar0 is the disk I need to install on to. Installation went on fine, and everything seems to be working good. I decided to test the hotswap and mirror features by removing one of the drive at a time, also swapped two drives with each other. No problem there! But then, I noticed missing /usr/home and /usr/src/sys directories. I know for sure I installed full source. Anyhow, I created the /usr/home, and using sysinstall, I did "add additional distribution" to add "base", "man", and "source". Strangely, afterwards, my passwd file, adduser config, and locate database was reset to default. After reconfiguring lost infos, I've tried recompile the kernel. And every single time, during make, FBSD reboots the system. So finally decided to reinstall, and now sysinstall tells me it can't create the file systems. Arrg!!! What's going on??? I'm clueless. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through ISOT. To find out more about ISOT, visit http://isot.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Mar 21 8:36:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EEA37B404; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw.cscoms.com (mailgw.cscoms.com [202.183.255.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A339443FDF; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from FreeBooklet@thaimail.com) Received: from cscoms.com (mail.cscoms.com [202.183.255.23]) by mailgw.cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2LGZMER032231; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:35:23 +0700 (ICT) Received: from ME (dial-49.ras-7.bkk.c.cscoms.com [203.170.129.49]) by cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h2LGV3wo017050; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:31:06 +0700 (GMT) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:31:03 +0700 (GMT) Message-Id: <200303211631.h2LGV3wo017050@cscoms.com> From: FreeBooklet@thaimail.com Subject: ᨡ¿ÃÕ ! ˹ѧÊ×ͤÙèÁ×ͤ¹à¤Â¨¹ ÊÓËÃѺ¼Ùéʹã¨.... 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"ÍÂèÒÇÔµ¡àÃ×èͧ¡ÒÃà»ÅÕè¹á»Å§ªÕÇÔµµÑÇàͧ ¶éÒÁѹ¿Ñ§àËÁ×͹à»ç¹ >>¤ÇÒÁ¤Ô´·Õè´Õ ¨§·ÓÁѹ" à¾×èÍÇѹ¹Õéà·èÒ¹Ñé¹" >>>>>>>>ºÍ¡¡ÑºµÑÇàͧÇèÒ " à¾×èÍÇѹ¹Õéà·èÒ¹Ñé¹ ©Ñ¹¨ÐÇҧἹàµÃÕÂÁ¡Òà áÅÐàÃÔèÁµé¹§Ò¹ >>·ÕèÂÒ¡·ÕèÊØ´¡è͹¨Ð·ÓÍÂèÒ§Í×è¹ "áÅéǤس¨Ðµéͧ·Ö觡Ѻ¤ÇÒÁᵡµèÒ§·Õèà¡Ô´¢Öé¹ã¹ªÕÇÔµ¤Ø³ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ¤Ø³ ¾ÃéÍÁáÅéÇÃÖÂѧ ¡ÑºÃٻẺ¡Ò÷ӧҹ§èÒÂæ¨Ò¡·ÕèºéÒ¹ Click Here! www.geocities.com/thaigetrich/easywork , ËÃ×Í Tel. 0-2277-7850 ¡´ 25 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ¢ÍÍÀÑÂËÒ¡à»ç¹¡ÒÃú¡Ç¹ áÅÐËÒ¡äÁèµéͧ¡ÒÃãËéÊ觢èÒÇÊÒÃÁÒÂѧ·èÒ¹ÍÕ¡ ¡ÃسÒàÁÅÅìÁÒ·Õè easywork@maildozy.com ËÑÇ¢éÍ unsub --#MYBOUNDARY#-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Mar 21 8:48:25 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06D737B401 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gulliver.summitoh.net (cable-29-84.sssnet.com [24.140.29.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 82D2743FBD for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:48:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from watsonr@gulliver.summitoh.net) Received: (qmail 8830 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2003 16:48:15 -0000 Received: from scr-rtr.neo.rr.com (HELO rwdell) (204.210.223.195) by ghostwind.summitoh.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2003 16:48:15 -0000 Message-ID: <00fe01c2efc9$aae69ba0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> From: "Ryan Watson" To: Cc: References: Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:47:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have come to learn that this is all because the memory address portion of the Xeon is 36bits, not 32. Though the Xeon is indeed a 32bit CPU. Ryan > It isn't physics. A Xeon with Intel ® E7501 Chipset Memory > Controller Hub (MCH) > > ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/25192701.pdf > > Page 120 > > 5.5 System Memory Controller > The MCH can support DDR 266 and DDR 200 using SSTL_2 signaling. The MCH > includes > support for: > . In dual-channel mode, up to 16 GB of 266 MHz or 200 MHz DDR SDRAM > installed for a > maximum address decode of 16 GB - 64 MB unless memory reclaim feature is > used. > . In single-channel mode, up to 8 GB of 266 MHz or 200 MHz DDR SDRAM > installed for a > maximum address decode of 8 GB - 32 MB unless memory reclaim feature is > used. > . DDR 266 or DDR 200 registered 184-pin ECC DDR SDRAM DIMMs > . 72-bit wide x4 and x8 DIMMs using 128-Mb, 256-Mb, and 512-Mb SDRAM > technology. > . Maximum of four DIMMs per channel, single-rank and/or double-rank > . Cache Latency of 2 and 2.5 only. > The eight chip select lines support up to eight rows of double-rank SDRAM > DIMMs. The MCH > does not support non-ECC DIMMs or unbuffered DIMMs. > > This is the support chip for the Xeon processor. So yes Virginia, it does > support more than 4GB per processor. Point your Sparky at > http://www.intel.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Ryan Watson > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 7:32 AM > > To: Tom Samplonius > > Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server > > > > > > > > > You should probably look that up. Even the lowly Dell Poweredge 2650 > > > has a 8GB memory limit. > > > > That's because it's more than one CPU, each x86 can address only 4Gigs. > > Trust me on this one, it's physics. BTW, are you a Dell salesperson? Sit > > down with a piece of paper, and figure out what the largest number you can > > come up with, with only 32 bits? Oh yeah, that means you do it > > with a base > > of 2, not 10. > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Mar 21 9: 3:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE33337B401 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (user38.net339.fl.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A82443FA3 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:03:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bv@wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by bilver.wjv.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2LH3m6u068283 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:03:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h2LH3mpW068282 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:03:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:03:48 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server Message-ID: <20030321170348.GE67174@wjv.com> Reply-To: bv@wjv.com References: <00fe01c2efc9$aae69ba0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00fe01c2efc9$aae69ba0$d70d10ac@summitoh.net> Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.43 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Throwing caution to the wind and speaking without thinking about what was being said on Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 11:47 , Ryan Watson blurted this: > I have come to learn that this is all because the memory > address portion of the Xeon is 36bits, not 32. Though the Xeon > is indeed a 32bit CPU. Correct. AND there are 64 bit CPUs that are 64BIT internally only. For awhile the only 64x64 was the Dec Alpha [later Compaq alpha] 64x40 was common for the MIPS chips at one time. And on the topic of the original thread - I thank all who posted fo the information. Those who sent private mail were thanked individually. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Mar 21 11:34:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23B237B404 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from usenet.isot.com (usenet.isot.com [63.161.224.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D41443FAF for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:34:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@isot.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by usenet.isot.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h2LJdPL37181 for freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:39:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from freebsd@isot.com) X-Authentication-Warning: usenet.isot.com: www set sender to freebsd@isot.com using -f Received: from 63.161.239.70 ( [63.161.239.70]) as user freebsd@isot.com by webmail.isot.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:39:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1048275565.3e7b6a6da4681@webmail.isot.com> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:39:25 -0600 From: itchibahn Reply-To: song@isot.com To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FBSD 5.0 Installation References: <1048223155.3e7a9db328f2e@webmail.isot.com> In-Reply-To: <1048223155.3e7a9db328f2e@webmail.isot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1-cvs X-Originating-IP: 63.161.239.70 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, I replaced the hard drive and did fresh install of 5.0 to disk ar0. Everything seems to be ok, but still reboots when doing "make depend" on KERNEL. There were error messages just before reboot, but went too fast and couldn't catch it. Quoting Squirrel User : > I'm installing FBSD 5.0 on Promise FastTrak100-Tx2 ATAPI Raid controller with > > two 20G drives mirrored. > > During installation, sysinstall shows three disks; ad4, ad6, and ar0. I'm > assuming the ar0 is the disk I need to install on to. > > Installation went on fine, and everything seems to be working good. I > decided > to test the hotswap and mirror features by removing one of the drive at a > time, also swapped two drives with each other. No problem there! > > But then, I noticed missing /usr/home and /usr/src/sys directories. I know > > for sure I installed full source. Anyhow, I created the /usr/home, and using > > sysinstall, I did "add additional distribution" to add "base", "man", > and "source". Strangely, afterwards, my passwd file, adduser config, and > locate database was reset to default. > > After reconfiguring lost infos, I've tried recompile the kernel. And every > > single time, during make, FBSD reboots the system. So finally decided to > reinstall, and now sysinstall tells me it can't create the file systems. > > Arrg!!! What's going on??? I'm clueless. > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through ISOT. To find out more > about ISOT, visit http://isot.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through ISOT. To find out more about ISOT, visit http://isot.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Mar 21 14:55:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3903A37B404 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 14:55:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from usenet.isot.com (usenet.isot.com [63.161.224.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5967443FAF for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 14:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@isot.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by usenet.isot.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h2LN0Rc37382 for freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 17:00:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from freebsd@isot.com) X-Authentication-Warning: usenet.isot.com: www set sender to freebsd@isot.com using -f Received: from 63.161.239.70 ( [63.161.239.70]) as user freebsd@isot.com by webmail.isot.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 17:00:27 -0600 Message-ID: <1048287627.3e7b998bb94dc@webmail.isot.com> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 17:00:27 -0600 From: itchibahn Reply-To: song@isot.com To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FBSD 5.0 and Promise FastTrak-Tx2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1-cvs X-Originating-IP: 63.161.239.70 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I got two UDMA100 hard drives attached to FastTrak-Tx2 card to mirror. The FastTrak recognized it as UDMA100, but the FBSD shows it as UDMA33. Is there a patch for this? Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ad4: DMA limited to UDMA33, non-ATA66 cable or device Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ad6: DMA limited to UDMA33, non-ATA66 cable or device Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ar0: 19092MB [2433/255/63] status: READY subdisks: Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: 0 READY ad4: 19092MB [38792/16/63] at ata2-master UDMA33 Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: 1 READY ad6: 19092MB [38792/16/63] at ata3-master UDMA33 Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad4 -> 16 Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 last message repeated 3 times Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad6 -> 16 Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad6 -> 16 Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ar0s1a -bash-2.05b$ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through ISOT. To find out more about ISOT, visit http://isot.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Mar 21 16:45:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B88937B401 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:45:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw1-out.MEIway.com (mgw1.meiway.com [212.73.210.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 927DB43FD7 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 16:45:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from LConrad@Go2France.com) Received: from VirusGate.MEIway.com (virus-gate.meiway.com [212.73.210.91]) by mgw1-out.MEIway.com (Postfix Relay Hub) with ESMTP id 4868EEF6AA for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 01:29:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost.meiway.com [127.0.0.1]) by VirusGate.MEIway.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EB3965D009 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 01:49:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.Go2France.com (ms1.meiway.com [212.73.210.73]) by VirusGate.MEIway.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB295D008 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 01:49:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from tx0-go2france-c.Go2France.com [24.242.169.51] by mail.Go2France.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A6996201FC; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 02:04:25 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030321184412.0321b008@mail.go2france.com> X-Sender: LConrad@Go2France.com@mail.go2france.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:45:48 -0600 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Len Conrad Subject: Re: FBSD 5.0 and Promise FastTrak-Tx2 In-Reply-To: <1048287627.3e7b998bb94dc@webmail.isot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ad4: DMA limited to UDMA33, non-ATA66 >cable or >device >Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ad6: DMA limited to UDMA33, non-ATA66 >cable or >device Verify that the "controller end" of the ATA133 cable is plugged into the .... controller. :)) I think you can figure out where the "disk end" of the cable goes. :) Len To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Mar 22 5:16: 8 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F51137B401 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 05:16:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Shenton.org (23.ebbed1.client.atlantech.net [209.190.235.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 107AC43F93 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 05:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@Shenton.Org) Received: (qmail 4846 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Mar 2003 13:16:02 -0000 To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Maximum recommended user limits on mail server References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030319184158.02da2ba8@mail.go2france.com> From: Chris Shenton Date: 22 Mar 2003 08:16:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030319184158.02da2ba8@mail.go2france.com> Message-ID: <87znnn5yp9.fsf@Pectopah.shenton.org> Lines: 90 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Len Conrad writes: > >A person I know is looking to have a mail server with 10K-15K > >accounts and 50 virtual domains. Shouldn't be a big deal so long as your architecture's sane. > You've got some good pointers on the mailbox servers, but nobody > talked about an multi-box architecture, which is the key to > scaleability and reliability. Absolutely agreed. If you've got a bunch of users, you can't just take the mailserver(s) down to upgrade some HW or SW. Design a system which has no single points of failure. I've learned this at a couple places the hard way and am doing it the "right" way on a project I'm working on. We'll be using a redundant pair of load balancers with a few 1U servers behind them offering SMTP, APOP (historical), IMAP, WebMail and an LDAP replica. Behind those will be a big NFS box (NetApp if I get the budget) and an LDAP master. With this, we'll be able to take down any of the data-less 1U servers if we need to, no interruption of service. To make this work, a shared store for mailboxes is key -- in this case NFS. There are a couple of catches tho. NFS does not always provide reliable locking so multiple writers can corrupt a file. I've also seen that UNIX mbox-style single-file-for-all-mail will lead to disk i/o starvation if mboxes get above 20MB or so -- check the qpopper list for lots of war stories. A solution to both problems is to use a mailstore format that does not put all of a user's messages in a single file. DJB's "Maildir" format does this -- each message gets its own file. No file locking issues, and stuff that's expensive on mbox (e.g., delete a message) is trivial and fast with Maildir. (There are other techniques if your mail servers do not share mailstore; use a directory to route incoming mail to the appropriate box for each users, and likewise proxy POP/IMAP connections. qmail-ldap can do this. You don't get the redundancy of the shared store approach, however). I'm using qmail + vpopmail + courier-imap + sqwebmail at one ISP. It does virtual domains very nicely and the mailstore is Maildir format. This small site uses a single box so has no redundancy, but with an NFS backend it could be fault-tolerant. I'm building another using qmail-ldap (and courier-imap and sqwebmail) and rather enjoying the flexibility of qmail using LDAP to lookup user address variations, mailbox location, quotas, active/disabled status, etc. I also find it rather fast. In some benchmarking I was doing yesterday, I ran 1000 sequential sessions each injecting 3 messages and saw a rate of 22 msg/sec -- on a P2-500 with 256MB RAM and an old IDE disk; this was fully delivered to local Maildir mailboxes, not sitting in a queue trying to be delivered. I was running this on FreeBSD-4.5 or so. I need to do benchmarks on POP/IMAP retrieval, since typically you'll have more reading (users) than writing (delivery to users). If you're religiously set on sendmail, you can use procmail or maildrop as a local mail delivery agent to deliver mail to Maildir format mailboxes. I've done this at one site, and used a maildir-aware POP daemon to serve users. Works OK but sendmail isn't nearly as fast as qmail. I understand Postfix can deliver to Maildir but have no experience with it. > 1. dedicated box as SMTP gateway. > 2. dedicated AV box > 3. mailbox server, muchly liberated because no anti-mail abuse, no DNS > query delay, no retrying of delayed mail, no AV scanning, and 50+% of > the inbound mail rejected at the envelope by 1. I may partition services on my 1U servers to act like the above. As long as I offer the services on each box, I can steer traffic to any I desire based on load balancer rules. (I might have more POP/IMAP services than SMTP, for example). If you don't have a balancer, you can leverage DNS MX for SMTP delivery and DNS round-robin for POP/IMAP access (but you'll have to manually tweak DNS if you take a machine out of POP/IMAP service). I haven't yet investigated anti-spam/anti-virus stuff except to look at Postini and Brightmail services -- pricey but can be cost-justified at corporate sites. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Mar 22 9:34:34 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE2C37B401 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 09:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from usenet.isot.com (usenet.isot.com [63.161.224.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D993B43FAF for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 09:34:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@isot.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by usenet.isot.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h2MHdLs41309; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:39:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from freebsd@isot.com) X-Authentication-Warning: usenet.isot.com: www set sender to freebsd@isot.com using -f Received: from 63.161.239.70 ( [63.161.239.70]) as user freebsd@isot.com by webmail.isot.com with HTTP; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:39:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1048354761.3e7c9fc9c542f@webmail.isot.com> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:39:21 -0600 From: itchibahn Reply-To: song@isot.com To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FBSD 5.0 and Promise FastTrak-Tx2 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030321184412.0321b008@mail.go2france.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030321184412.0321b008@mail.go2france.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1-cvs X-Originating-IP: 63.161.239.70 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Turns out the technician who built this server for me used 2 standard ATA100 cables. I replaced them with the cables that came with the card, and now FBSD recognizes them as ATA100! Thanks. But still having problem, when doing the "make depend" on kernel, it reboots. Am I using right disk? I've used disk "ar0" instead of ad4 or ad6. Also noticed "Opened disk" message repeats 3 times for each disk, is that normal? Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: 0 READY ad4: 19092MB [38792/16/63] at ata2-master UDMA100 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: 1 READY ad6: 19092MB [38792/16/63] at ata3-master UDMA100 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad4 -> 16 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad4 -> 16 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad4 -> 16 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad6 -> 16 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad6 -> 16 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Opened disk ad6 -> 16 Mar 22 11:27:13 radius2 kernel: Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ar0s1a Quoting Len Conrad : > > >Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ad4: DMA limited to UDMA33, non-ATA66 > >cable or > >device > >Mar 21 16:46:44 radius2 kernel: ad6: DMA limited to UDMA33, non-ATA66 > >cable or > >device > > Verify that the "controller end" of the ATA133 cable is plugged into the > .... controller. :)) > > I think you can figure out where the "disk end" of the cable goes. :) > > Len > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through ISOT. To find out more about ISOT, visit http://isot.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Mar 22 12:29:30 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFCD137B401 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mordrede.visionsix.com (mordrede.visionsix.com [65.202.119.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E504C43F85 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:29:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@visionsix.com) Received: from vsis169 (unverified [65.202.119.169]) by mordrede.visionsix.com (Vircom SMTPRS 2.0.239) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:29:25 -0600 Message-ID: <009701c2f0b1$b9914c20$a977ca41@vsis169> From: "Lewis Watson" To: Subject: Production Machine, Custom Kernel, Updating to P9 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:29:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello list members, First, please direct me to a more suitable list if this is too OT. I am running a few FreeBSD machines in a small isp environment. I want to upgrade from release 4.7-p7 to release 4.7-p9 on a machine with a customized kernel that is *in production* and am hoping that those of you more experienced with FreeBSD can give me some advise to keep this machine solid. In my limited past I have went the route of install OS from cd; cvsup with RELENG_4_7 all the way to make installworld and then once the OS was updated I would customize my kernel. So now I want to update to 4.7-p9 and I have a customized kernel and am not sure what is the best way to proceed. I have read /usr/src/UPDATING and the handbook regarding rebuilding the kernel after syncing the src. It looks as if I have two paths. 1) Rebuild with my custom kernel or 2) rebuild with a generic kernel and then rebuild a custom kernel later. I would prefer to go with my custom kernel but am afraid that something may break; which in turns makes me want to go with GENERIC... but then..... I have googled this in various ways and found an article where make buildkernel KERNCONF=GENERIC would stop with an error in his case. So before I hose my system I am hoping that the more experienced list members in the isp environment who understand my situation could share their past experiences... Thank you, Lewis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Mar 22 12:56:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526FC37B401 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:56:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from seven.Alameda.net (seven.Alameda.net [64.81.63.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93F443F75 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Alameda.net) Received: by seven.Alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 26CFD3A201; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:56:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:56:54 -0800 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: Lewis Watson Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Production Machine, Custom Kernel, Updating to P9 Message-ID: <20030322125653.V11496@seven.alameda.net> Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net References: <009701c2f0b1$b9914c20$a977ca41@vsis169> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <009701c2f0b1$b9914c20$a977ca41@vsis169>; from lists@visionsix.com on Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 02:29:23PM -0600 Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p2 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 02:29:23PM -0600, Lewis Watson wrote: > Hello list members, > First, please direct me to a more suitable list if this is too OT. I am > running a few FreeBSD machines in a small isp environment. I want to > upgrade from release 4.7-p7 to release 4.7-p9 on a machine with a > customized kernel that is *in production* and am hoping that those of you > more experienced with FreeBSD can give me some advise to keep this machine > solid. > > In my limited past I have went the route of install OS from cd; cvsup with > RELENG_4_7 all the way to make installworld and then once the OS was > updated I would customize my kernel. So now I want to update to 4.7-p9 and > I have a customized kernel and am not sure what is the best way to > proceed. > > I have read /usr/src/UPDATING and the handbook regarding rebuilding the > kernel after syncing the src. It looks as if I have two paths. 1) Rebuild > with my custom kernel or 2) rebuild with a generic kernel and then rebuild > a custom kernel later. I would prefer to go with my custom kernel but am > afraid that something may break; which in turns makes me want to go with > GENERIC... but then..... > > I have googled this in various ways and found an article where make > buildkernel KERNCONF=GENERIC would stop with an error in his case. So > before I hose my system I am hoping that the more experienced list members > in the isp environment who understand my situation could share their past > experiences... > Thank you, > Lewis Here is in short form what I do in production machines: cvsup (RELENG_4 or RELENG_4_7 depending what it runs) cd /usr/src make buildworld make buildkernel KERNCONF= make installkernel KERNCON= make installworld mergemaster I am doing it all the time, even on machines remotely, with no consoles. Depending on large of an upgrade, the mergemaster is very important. I always never use the GENERIC kernel after the first initial install. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Mar 22 13: 0:16 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C385737B401 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (user38.net339.fl.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F32E43F75 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:00:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bv@wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by bilver.wjv.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2ML086u087620 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:00:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h2ML08Y1087619 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:00:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:00:07 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Production Machine, Custom Kernel, Updating to P9 Message-ID: <20030322210007.GA87466@wjv.com> Reply-To: bv@wjv.com References: <009701c2f0b1$b9914c20$a977ca41@vsis169> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <009701c2f0b1$b9914c20$a977ca41@vsis169> Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.43 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org While humming that old rock song Yackety Yacc - Dont Awk Back Lewis Watson sang or SED something like this: > First, please direct me to a more suitable list if this is > too OT. I am running a few FreeBSD machines in a small isp > environment. I want to upgrade from release 4.7-p7 to release > 4.7-p9 on a machine with a customized kernel that is *in > production* and am hoping that those of you more experienced > with FreeBSD can give me some advise to keep this machine > solid. > In my limited past I have went the route of install OS from cd; > cvsup with RELENG_4_7 all the way to make installworld and then > once the OS was updated I would customize my kernel. So now I > want to update to 4.7-p9 and I have a customized kernel and am > not sure what is the best way to proceed. > I have read /usr/src/UPDATING and the handbook regarding > rebuilding the kernel after syncing the src. It looks as if I > have two paths. 1) Rebuild with my custom kernel or 2) rebuild > with a generic kernel and then rebuild a custom kernel later. > I would prefer to go with my custom kernel but am afraid that > something may break; which in turns makes me want to go with > GENERIC... but then..... I start with a GENERIC and modify a copy for my own kernel name. Then I copy the GENERIC to a name such as GENERIC-2003-03-01 - the time of the last GENERIC. Then when a cvs updates the GENERIC I run a diff on the new GENERIC and my saved GENERIC to see if there are any differences that might affect my system, and add only what I'd need. I also do the same with LINT. I also backup that directory to another file system that wont get changed. This way you can always use your own custom kernel after noting which changes have been made. > I have googled this in various ways and found an article where > make buildkernel KERNCONF=GENERIC would stop with an error in > his case. So before I hose my system I am hoping that the more > experienced list members in the isp environment who understand > my situation could share their past experiences... If either you old config or the new GENERIC fails, then recvsup as something is wrong. I've had strange errors that a new cvsup has cured about three or four times total - and that's over three + years. I've not had a problem doing this step by step, and then installing the kernel and rebooting. I have yet to have to drive to the colo to fix a non-booting machine - but I do this about 2AM and the facility is close by. I'm just getting serial IP devices installed so that I can recover from a system that won't come up running in multi-user mode. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Mar 22 16:34:23 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805FB37B401 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mordrede.visionsix.com (mordrede.visionsix.com [65.202.119.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C5543FA3 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:34:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@visionsix.com) Received: from vsis169 (unverified [65.202.119.169]) by mordrede.visionsix.com (Vircom SMTPRS 2.0.239) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:34:18 -0600 Message-ID: <002501c2f0d3$eeac7340$a977ca41@vsis169> From: "Lewis Watson" To: References: <009701c2f0b1$b9914c20$a977ca41@vsis169> <20030322125653.V11496@seven.alameda.net> Subject: Re: Production Machine, Custom Kernel, Updating to P9 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:34:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I appreciate both of you taking the time to share your viewpoints on this. Thanks again, Lewis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-isp" in the body of the message