From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 11:16:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DC016A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A334400F for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8SIFf7R053652; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:15:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h8SIFf6A053649; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:15:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:15:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Adam C. Migus" In-Reply-To: <3F761AF0.3020105@migus.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: John Straiton cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: 'Eric Anderson' Subject: Re: Performance Problems.. Server hardware smoked by $500 box? X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:16:16 -0000 On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Adam C. Migus wrote: > >>(Production WEB now that it's using apache2. Since we're new to apache2, > >>it's gonna be certainly hokie) > > ... > >This is all speculation of course, but it could be that differences in > >Apache version make up most of the performance difference you see. ... > Thus threading is irrelavent unless he's specifically enabled them, > which, he cannot be using since he's using PHP, which doesn't work with > apache2 threading. I use apache2 on FreeBSD 5.1 RELEASE and find > performance to be as good or better than apache1. ... Well, what I was actually trying to get at, albeit indirectly, is that to properly understand the performance differences between the configurations, the best approach is probably to address one variable at a time: use identical software configurations for the two boxes, and then twiddle the variables and see what the impact of each change is on both boxes. I.e., first sync up the apache versions on the two configurations, and see if the performance gap remains. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 14:14:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BDB16A4B3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl (amsfep13-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208BC4403D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:13:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20030928211357.DLHP24716.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:13:57 +0200 Message-ID: <3F774EBF.4050605@sitetronics.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:12:31 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Adam C. Migus" References: <3F761AF0.3020105@migus.org> In-Reply-To: <3F761AF0.3020105@migus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: John Straiton cc: 'Eric Anderson' cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Performance Problems.. Server hardware smoked by $500 box? X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:14:01 -0000 > Thus threading is irrelavent unless he's specifically enabled them, > which, he cannot be using since he's using PHP, which doesn't work > with apache2 threading. I use apache2 on FreeBSD 5.1 RELEASE and find > performance to be as good or better than apache1. I hate to be pedantic, but PHP works under Apache 2 and is thread safe. --Devon From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 14:26:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2AF116A4B3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4D444008; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:26:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@migus.org) Received: from garple.migus.org ([68.55.83.94]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003092821261601300emgc2e>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:26:16 +0000 Received: by garple.migus.org (Postfix, from userid 80) id F181C8FC30; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.4.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user adam) by mail.migus.org with HTTP; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49448.192.168.4.2.1064784375.squirrel@mail.migus.org> In-Reply-To: <3F774EBF.4050605@sitetronics.com> References: <3F761AF0.3020105@migus.org> <3F774EBF.4050605@sitetronics.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:26:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adam C. Migus" To: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: John Straiton cc: 'Eric Anderson' cc: "Adam C. Migus" cc: Robert Watson cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance Problems.. Server hardware smoked by $500 box? X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:26:18 -0000 Devon H. O'Dell said: > >> Thus threading is irrelavent unless he's specifically enabled >> them, >> which, he cannot be using since he's using PHP, which doesn't work >> with apache2 threading. I use apache2 on FreeBSD 5.1 RELEASE and >> find >> performance to be as good or better than apache1. > > I hate to be pedantic, but PHP works under Apache 2 and is thread > safe. > > --Devon > > Devon, I am using PHP with Apache 2 and didn't mean to say or imply that it didn't work with Apache 2, however, the last time I tried I was unable to run it with an Apache 2 server running any MPM other than pre-fork. Have you been able to run PHP with a threaded MPM? Please let me know as I'd like to test the other MPM's with PHP... For reference my Apache 2 and PHP are from ports, the latter is mod_php4 compiled with just about everything. :-) -- Adam - (http://people.migus.org/~amigus/) Migus Dot Org - (http://www.migus.org/) From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 14:35:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11CBA16A4BF; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep15-int.chello.nl (amsfep15-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E61A4400D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030928213512.CVQF8709.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:35:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3F7753BA.1020304@sitetronics.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:33:46 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Adam C. Migus" References: <3F761AF0.3020105@migus.org> <3F774EBF.4050605@sitetronics.com> <49448.192.168.4.2.1064784375.squirrel@mail.migus.org> In-Reply-To: <49448.192.168.4.2.1064784375.squirrel@mail.migus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: John Straiton cc: Robert Watson cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org cc: 'Eric Anderson' Subject: Re: Performance Problems.. Server hardware smoked by $500 box? X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:35:16 -0000 Adam C. Migus wrote: >Devon, >I am using PHP with Apache 2 and didn't mean to say or imply that it >didn't work with Apache 2, however, the last time I tried I was >unable to run it with an Apache 2 server running any MPM other than >pre-fork. Have you been able to run PHP with a threaded MPM? >Please let me know as I'd like to test the other MPM's with PHP... > >For reference my Apache 2 and PHP are from ports, the latter is >mod_php4 compiled with just about everything. :-) > > Well that might be the problem in your case. PHP itself is thread safe, but there's no guarantee that the extensions are. In fact, I think a good few of them are not (ming comes to mind, IIRC). In your case, the killer may be the extensions and not PHP itself. I'd suggest compiling them as modules and then dl()ing them until PHP dies ;). There's probably also a list of non-thread-safe modules out there somewhere. But I fear the list Gods, so I'm not going to change this list to freebsd-php :) If you've got more questions, feel free to email me privately :) --Devon From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 14:52:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6395216A4B3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FFF44029; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@migus.org) Received: from garple.migus.org ([68.55.83.94]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2003092821520801500fg7vbe>; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:52:08 +0000 Received: by garple.migus.org (Postfix, from userid 80) id 3E6B88FC30; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.4.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user adam) by mail.migus.org with HTTP; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49486.192.168.4.2.1064785928.squirrel@mail.migus.org> In-Reply-To: <3F7753BA.1020304@sitetronics.com> References: <3F761AF0.3020105@migus.org> <3F774EBF.4050605@sitetronics.com> <49448.192.168.4.2.1064784375.squirrel@mail.migus.org> <3F7753BA.1020304@sitetronics.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adam C. Migus" To: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: John Straiton cc: Robert Watson cc: "Adam C. Migus" cc: 'Eric Anderson' cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance Problems.. Server hardware smoked by $500 box? X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:52:10 -0000 Devon H. O'Dell said: > Adam C. Migus wrote: > >>Devon, >>I am using PHP with Apache 2 and didn't mean to say or imply that >> it >>didn't work with Apache 2, however, the last time I tried I was >>unable to run it with an Apache 2 server running any MPM other than >>pre-fork. Have you been able to run PHP with a threaded MPM? >>Please let me know as I'd like to test the other MPM's with PHP... >> >>For reference my Apache 2 and PHP are from ports, the latter is >>mod_php4 compiled with just about everything. :-) >> >> > Well that might be the problem in your case. PHP itself is thread > safe, > but there's no guarantee that the extensions are. In fact, I think a > good few of them are not (ming comes to mind, IIRC). In your case, > the > killer may be the extensions and not PHP itself. I'd suggest > compiling > them as modules and then dl()ing them until PHP dies ;). There's > probably also a list of non-thread-safe modules out there somewhere. > But > I fear the list Gods, so I'm not going to change this list to > freebsd-php :) If you've got more questions, feel free to email me > privately :) > > --Devon > > Devon, Agreed and thanks. Come to think of it, I think it was a cranky extension that I wanted/needed. The best thing for me to do is as per your suggestion, try it again, isolate the problematic extension and go from there. Thanks for your offer to answer my questions, I might be spamming your inbox soon! :-) -- Adam - (http://people.migus.org/~amigus/) Migus Dot Org - (http://www.migus.org/) From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 1 00:46:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F84F16A4B3; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D90643FDF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:46:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@nxad.com) Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B24012107F; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:46:25 -0700 From: Sean Chittenden To: database@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031001074625.GB64328@perrin.nxad.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="/04w6evG8XlLl3ft" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: performance@FreeBSD.org Subject: [seanc@FreeBSD.org: Re: cvs commit: ports/databases/postgresql-devel Makefile distinfo pkg-message pkg-plist] X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:46:27 -0000 --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline FWIW, I just updated postgresql-devel to the latest snapshot and as promised, I added the _ability_ to change postgresql-devel's block sizes to 16K or 32K. The default block size still remains at 8K. If you have hardware and testing time to burn, I'd be interested in anyone's results if someone decides to perform any kind of benchmarking with differing block sizes. Some have found the bigger block sizes to speed up some types of work loads anywhere from 10-25%, others have found no difference. Any data that people have on this would be of interest to me and I would greatly appreciate hearing about anyones results. Info that's helpful include what version FreeBSD, file system info, UFS block sizes as well as PG block sizes, and basic info about your app that you used to test (50/50 read writes, 40/60, etc). Please note that changing block sizes should be done with care and will result in the need to dump/initdb/reload, and adjustment of postgresql.conf values (ex: effective_cache_size) that depend on 8K block sizes. Playing with PG's block sizes will create incompatibilities between databases/postgresql-devel and databases/postgresql7 if the block sizes differ. You have been warned. If you have any questions about this, please take up such discussions on the database@ list. -sc PS Valid values for WITH_PGBLOCKSIZE are "16K" or "32K" -- Sean Chittenden --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: X-Original-To: sean@chittenden.org Delivered-To: sean@perrin.nxad.com Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12612106D for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F266A56019 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-ports-committers@FreeBSD.org) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) id C0B4216A4E6; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: seanc@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id 86FF616A4DF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ports-committers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB7016A4B3; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9F243FDF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:26:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sean@nxad.com) Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 95B392106D; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:26:31 -0700 From: Sean Chittenden To: ports-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-ports@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Cc: databases@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/databases/postgresql-devel Makefile distinfo pkg-message pkg-plist Message-ID: <20031001072631.GA64328@perrin.nxad.com> References: <200310010721.h917LfPe069496@repoman.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310010721.h917LfPe069496@repoman.freebsd.org> X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: owner-ports-committers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > seanc 2003/10/01 00:21:41 PDT > > FreeBSD ports repository > > Modified files: > databases/postgresql-devel Makefile distinfo pkg-message > pkg-plist > Log: > Update to the latest snapshot for 7.4beta3. Mostly bug fixes, but the > most significant change is the ability to change PostgreSQL's block size > with the nob: WITH_PGBLOCKSIZE=("16K"|"32K"). Release notes: > > http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/release.html#RELEASE-DEVEL For those with hardware and testing time to burn, I'm particularly interested in knowing if someone notices one of these sizes performs better form them or not. Some have found the bigger block sizes to speed up some types of work loads anywhere from 10-25%, others have found no difference. Any data that people have on this would be of interest to me and I would greatly appreciate hearing about anyones results. Please note that changing block sizes should be done with care and will result in the need to dump/initdb/reload and can create incompatibilities between databases/postgresql-devel and databases/postgresql7. -sc -- Sean Chittenden --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft--