From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 05:46:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDB716A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:46:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lilzmailso01.liwest.at (lilzmailso01.liwest.at [212.33.55.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010D543D1F for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:46:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dgw@liwest.at) Received: from cm58-27.liwest.at ([212.33.58.27]) by lilzmailso01.liwest.at with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AffvC-0003iE-Vw; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:46:31 +0100 From: Daniela To: Mike Hoskins , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:42:57 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> <3FFCB0F2.6040206@adept.org> In-Reply-To: <3FFCB0F2.6040206@adept.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401111442.57782.dgw@liwest.at> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:46:34 -0000 On Thursday 08 January 2004 01:22, Mike Hoskins wrote: > it may be nice to allow such things to be more easily removed for > "security" reasons, but one certainly does have to avoid shooting > themselves in the foot. in places where this is actually desired, it > would probably be better to run a custom distro (which could really just > be freebsd minus some agreed upon things to remove, backed by policy, > enforced by script) or look at embedded/hardening projects which already > do this or make it relatively moot. What??? Remove the compiler for better security??? Many people (including me) can program without a compiler or interpreter. It takes time to get used to, but it's not that hard to enter a complete executable with ELF headers in the hexeditor, or even with cat if you manage to avoid some symbols. Daniela From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 14:41:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C5F16A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C0943D39 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:41:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) i0BMfVfn016437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:41:31 GMT (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)id i0BMfViK016432 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:41:31 GMT (envelope-from matthew) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:41:31 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040111224130.GA16306@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.61 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Subject: Netcraft says... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:41:45 -0000 --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The reports on the second half of 2003 have been published. 7 of the 9 top sites on the Web run FreeBSD. http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/01/11/inetu_most_reliable_hostin= g_company_site_during_h2_2003.html Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAAdEadtESqEQa7a0RAnDBAJ43loQUZ2uo+AkqTtXE5kvx0yvv8wCdH94/ bYVchHyVGxKWTGLLxfxVUek= =Cgu2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 16:02:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB7916A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7CA43D5A for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:02:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0BNqaAS016510 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:52:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0BNqaGp016509 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:52:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:52:36 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <20040111224130.GA16306@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040111224130.GA16306@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk>; from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk on Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 10:41:31PM +0000 Subject: Re: Netcraft says... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:02:25 -0000 On Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 10:41:31PM +0000, Matthew Seaman wrote: > The reports on the second half of 2003 have been published. 7 of the > 9 top sites on the Web run FreeBSD. > > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/01/11/inetu_most_reliable_hosting_company_site_during_h2_2003.html absolutely wonderful! in a similar vein, I have a meeting with top Oracle executives next week to present our case for developing and supporting a native version of Oracle on FreeBSD. when I contacted Larry Ellison a few weeks ago, Oracle seemed quite interested and responded immediately. although we have been down this road in the past, I believe that current conditions are prime for a top-down type of decision at Oracle that would leave no doubt that a project like this would be successful. can people PLEASE send me every link/chart/graphic/spreadsheet similar to the above to gather into a presentation for Oracle? once I'm finished, I'd be glad to post the presentation back to the list ;) cheers, -matt -- Matt Olander Chief Technology Officer OffMyServer, Inc. (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 16:06:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A48D16A4D0 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.univie.ac.at (mailbox.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 762D643D1F for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:06:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) i0C06DOk553212; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:06:21 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:06:08 +0100 (CET) From: Lukas Ertl To: Matt Olander In-Reply-To: <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> Message-ID: <20040112010413.M611@korben.in.tern> References: <20040111224130.GA16306@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: mailbox 4261; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netcraft says... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:06:28 -0000 On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Matt Olander wrote: > in a similar vein, I have a meeting with top Oracle executives next week to > present our case for developing and supporting a native version of > Oracle on FreeBSD. when I contacted Larry Ellison a few weeks ago, > Oracle seemed quite interested and responded immediately. Now _this_ would be absolutely wonderful! When I contacted local Oracle reps about a native version, I just got the reply to try the Linux version under emulation... (at least someone knows how to google). Good luck for that meeting! Keep us up to date how it went. regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 16:42:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D1816A4D0 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2310843D5C for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRC002OSPZC4B@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:42:49 +0100 (MET) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:42:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (postfix@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) i0C0gmsU023181; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:42:48 +0100 (MET) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))(Postfix) with ESMTP id 048D335; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:42:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8488F611D; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:42:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:42:47 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> To: Matt Olander Message-id: <20040112004247.GH73012@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary="J/zg8ciPNcraoWb6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <20040111224130.GA16306@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netcraft says... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:42:57 -0000 --J/zg8ciPNcraoWb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 03:52:36PM -0800, Matt Olander wrote: > On Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 10:41:31PM +0000, Matthew Seaman wrote: > > The reports on the second half of 2003 have been published. 7 of the > > 9 top sites on the Web run FreeBSD. > >=20 > > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/01/11/inetu_most_reliable_ho= sting_company_site_during_h2_2003.html >=20 > absolutely wonderful! >=20 > in a similar vein, I have a meeting with top Oracle executives next week = to > present our case for developing and supporting a native version of > Oracle on FreeBSD. when I contacted Larry Ellison a few weeks ago, > Oracle seemed quite interested and responded immediately. >=20 > although we have been down this road in the past, I believe that current > conditions are prime for a top-down type of decision at Oracle that > would leave no doubt that a project like this would be successful. >=20 > can people PLEASE send me every link/chart/graphic/spreadsheet similar > to the above to gather into a presentation for Oracle?=20 >=20 Great news :-) A good bet to find some presentable information is the press section on the main page, which is pretty up to date with FreeBSD related articles. Among others, it links to several of the Netcraft articles. - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --J/zg8ciPNcraoWb6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAAe2HbHYXjKDtmC0RAv1BAJ94+EdLoFxWV+jtQZr3yoTbm3DcGgCgj7bM BuiKUn/Q5iMwc87G9yBdWn8= =e8S0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --J/zg8ciPNcraoWb6-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 20:51:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FE116A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep18-int.chello.nl (amsfep18-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5854D43D1D for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:51:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep18-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20040112045152.HDQZ10991.amsfep18-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:51:52 +0100 Message-ID: <400227B0.4020805@sitetronics.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:50:56 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Narvi , robert@fledge.watson.org References: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> In-Reply-To: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:51:58 -0000 >>High on my wish list of marketing materials are some 2-page "white papers" >>on deploying FreeBSD. Particular, short 2-pagers on FreeBSD as a network >>appliance or storage appliance base, as a firewall, and as a database >>server. Nicely laid out, business-like, and appropriate for distribution >>as PDF or on paper at conferences. Well you might just have some luck. We're using FreeBSD as the base of some of our appliances, and I'm charged with the wonderful task of writing papers for investors. Indeed, these papers contain information that we don't necessarily _want_ everyone to see, but they also contain a good bit of information about why FreeBSD is the ideal platform for such an appliance. If you have a few months, I can probably extract the main ideas from them and get them into a good, logical order. > > I think a starting point should probably be "generic" 2- and 4-pagers that > give information about freebsd. The 4-pager could go into more depth as to > what exactly 5.x has technology and benefits wise. It will also need to be > targeted at an audience - what you want to tell ISV / white box maker / > PHB / embedded developer / sysadmin / wannabe hacker / etc (not saying all > should be covered or covered from start) would be necessarily different, > possibly quite a lot. The non-generic, application specific 2-pagers would > then be sort of companions to the 4-pager I guess to showcase a specific > application. I think lengths of papers should not be determined by their content. >>Another thing I'd like to see is a retrofit on the "Power to server" >>brand, which I think was one of our more effective slogans. A nice logo >>and slogan can go a long way, because people stick them on everything. One >>of the ideas I've been poking at is moving to a logo that slightly >>deemphasizes the Daemon, and instead connotes "power and reliability" -- >>perhaps some sort of train-based logo. Something like: >> >> F r e e B S D >> [train in motion logo] >> The Power to Serve Good pictures of trains in motion are _very_ hard to come by. Especially shiny, neat, very fast and good looking trains. Although I'm sure that a cartoon-ish, vector-art version is available somewhere, but I don't think it promotes the idea as well as something in live-motion. Logos are very difficult things to come by. > Looks ok. > > Traditionaly, the "lets have a contest" thing around such has given quite > bad results (rather, usualy none) - going back all the way to 96/97. > Having an art crew is probably a very tough. > > Or maybe i'm mistaken - the FreeBSD/gnome splash screen is quite nice.I > can't personaly draw at all. I can't really draw either, but I can piece stuff together in most (decent) graphics programs. Anybody willing to provide me with a nice picture of a moving train will get something back :) --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 20:54:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCFF16A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep20-int.chello.nl (amsfep12-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95FCE43D31 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:54:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@offmyserver.com) Received: from offmyserver.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep20-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with ESMTP id <20040112045440.LGND3782.amsfep20-int.chello.nl@offmyserver.com> for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:54:40 +0100 Message-ID: <40022857.9030608@offmyserver.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:53:43 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FreeBeerSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:54:43 -0000 My housemate made this as a joke using a stock picture of one of our appliances. Anybody appreciating servers and Dutch beer will appreciate this photo. Check it out at http://www.offmyserver.com/images/freebeersd.jpg --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 20:56:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86EB16A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:56:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94ED43D1D for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:56:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com ([192.168.42.24]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i0C4uf6T056976; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:56:41 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <400228E6.60403@centtech.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:56:06 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Devon H. O'Dell" References: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> <400227B0.4020805@sitetronics.com> In-Reply-To: <400227B0.4020805@sitetronics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: robert@fledge.watson.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:56:56 -0000 Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I can't really draw either, but I can piece stuff together in most > (decent) graphics programs. Anybody willing to provide me with a nice > picture of a moving train will get something back :) Do you want a picture of a train, video of trains, or.. ? If you can tell me what your vision is, I'm pretty sure I can get a nice picture of it. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 21:03:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CE716A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep15-int.chello.nl (amsfep15-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790A043D5C for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:03:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with ESMTP id <20040112050343.HNVQ3882.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:03:43 +0100 Message-ID: <40022A74.4050103@sitetronics.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:02:44 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson References: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> <400227B0.4020805@sitetronics.com> <400228E6.60403@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <400228E6.60403@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: robert@fledge.watson.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:03:49 -0000 Eric Anderson wrote: > > Do you want a picture of a train, video of trains, or.. ? If you can > tell me what your vision is, I'm pretty sure I can get a nice picture of > it. > Eric > I suppose the idea would be a sleek-looking train with some sort of motion blur. I'm not into video editing, so I wouldn't be able to do much of anything with a video (BTW, thanks again for doing the TechTV thing the last two times :)) -- I simply don't have the software for it. I was thinking about taking some pictures of trains here in Holland, but they don't get washed very often and the sleek looking ones are all rather... dirty. I don't know what Robert's idea was, but in my own imagination, I see a silver, streamlined train with a clearly visible cockpit and at least 1 car behind it (though 2 or 3 would be nice). As always, the larger the picture (WRT resolution), the better. Backgrounds can be anything; these can be easily removed. As long as it's silver and sexy, it fits the image I had in mind when I saw Robert's ASCII vision ;) --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 21:38:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5E116A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5279F43D3F for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:38:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0C5aPUd060218; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:36:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i0C5aFWh060214; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:36:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:36:15 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Devon H. O'Dell" In-Reply-To: <40022A74.4050103@sitetronics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:38:02 -0000 On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I was thinking about taking some pictures of trains here in Holland, but > they don't get washed very often and the sleek looking ones are all > rather... dirty. > > I don't know what Robert's idea was, but in my own imagination, I see a > silver, streamlined train with a clearly visible cockpit and at least 1 > car behind it (though 2 or 3 would be nice). As always, the larger the > picture (WRT resolution), the better. Backgrounds can be anything; these > can be easily removed. As long as it's silver and sexy, it fits the > image I had in mind when I saw Robert's ASCII vision ;) Yeah, something stylized might work, I think. It's true that it's very hard to find a decent train. I spent a bit of time last summer perusing the royalty-free collections of several of the online image sources (Getty, et al) and couldn't really find a decent one that I liked. If we find a decent royalty-free one from a source, paying a one-time fee that's reasonable (i.e., <$200 or something) would be fine. I don't think we want to be dealing with royalties, however. I should dig up some of my sketches/etc from this summer. I had a few font choices also that we might want to go with. My first thought was something slightly industrial -- perhaps Aachen Std. I was hoping to find an Aachen Light, but Adobe didn't seem to have one in their catalog. (Guess who took a page layout course over the summer :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 11 23:27:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D9C16A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E0D643D2F for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:27:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 82801 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Jan 2004 06:29:49 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:29:49 +0100 From: Michal Pasternak To: "Devon H. O'Dell" Message-ID: <20040112062948.GD66709@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mail-Followup-To: "Devon H. O'Dell" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <40022857.9030608@offmyserver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40022857.9030608@offmyserver.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBeerSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:27:45 -0000 Devon H. O'Dell [Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 05:53:43AM +0100]: > My housemate made this as a joke using a stock picture of one of our > appliances. Anybody appreciating servers and Dutch beer will appreciate > this photo. ... and I am pretty sure, that a much better place to put up such an important issue would be freebsd-chat@ . From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 07:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD7516A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB0A43D31 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:21:22 -0600 Message-ID: <4002BA50.5040401@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:16:32 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031124 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Olander References: <20040111224130.GA16306@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> In-Reply-To: <20040111155236.D16291@knight.ixsystems.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2004 15:21:22.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC793720:01C3D91F] cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netcraft says... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:18:04 -0000 Matt Olander wrote: >On Sun, Jan 11, 2004 at 10:41:31PM +0000, Matthew Seaman wrote: > > >>The reports on the second half of 2003 have been published. 7 of the >>9 top sites on the Web run FreeBSD. >> >> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/01/11/inetu_most_reliable_hosting_company_site_during_h2_2003.html >> >> > >absolutely wonderful! > > >can people PLEASE send me every link/chart/graphic/spreadsheet similar >to the above to gather into a presentation for Oracle? > >once I'm finished, I'd be glad to post the presentation back to the list >;) > >cheers, >-matt > > > Here are a few things from Netcraft, in case you've been too busy to browse there: The new story, that Matt S is referring to: It's the 4th paragraph of the top story currently on the index of http://news.netcraft.com: *************************************************************** Seven of the top nine sites run on FreeBSD. The exceptions are Datapipe, which is doing a fine job of promoting the reliability of Windows 2003, and German hosting company komplex.net which runs on Linux . **************************************************************** And the December index had this story somewhere down the page: During November www.nyi.net was the most reliable hosting company site monitored by us with just one failed request from our five measurement points during the month. New York Internet is the first company to be top of the table for two months, having previously been top in June. Sites running on BSD operating systems occupied six out of the first seven places: Secure Dog Hosting runs OpenBSD , while New York Internet , INetU , USWest , IPowerweb , and Yahoo all use FreeBSD. ********************************************************************* Another, as of 1/11/2004 (been there a while, though) from: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/08/07/most_reliable_and_fastest_hosting_company_sites_during_july.html Following June, when the top five hosting company sites with fewest failed requests were all running FreeBSD, FreeBSD is again disproportionately represented at the top of the table with five of the top 10 and seven of the top 13 sites running that operating system, but in other respects the Top 10 again come from all segments of the industry from shared hosting through to high end colocation services. Four companies' sites - Cable and Wireless, Pair Networks, New York Internet and about.com were placed in the Top 10 during both June and July. ******************************************************************* HTH, Kevin Kinsey From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 08:14:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0B216A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E9943D5A for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([68.68.113.33]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20040112161406.DMFH1423.mta9.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:14:06 -0500 Message-ID: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:14:05 -0500 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: I need some data for a mainstream news artical X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:14:07 -0000 Hello all, I've managed to get a contact with a local newspaper (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) and I'm trying to help her put together an article on open source software. She's curious to put in some examples of things that run OSS that people might not even be aware of (such as TiVo boxes). I'm sure that between the various BSDs (especially NetBSD) there are lots of devices using OSS. Some specific examples would be a great help to my advocacy efforts in this area. Any specifics or pointers to sites or any type of information whatsoever would be very helpful! TIA -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 08:19:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246F116A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:19:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep17-int.chello.nl (amsfep17-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F2C43D49 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:19:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@offmyserver.com) Received: from offmyserver.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20040112161948.DEZD20314.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@offmyserver.com>; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:19:48 +0100 Message-ID: <4002C8EB.8060409@offmyserver.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:18:51 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran References: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> In-Reply-To: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org Subject: Re: I need some data for a mainstream news artical X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:19:52 -0000 Bill Moran wrote: > Hello all, > > I've managed to get a contact with a local newspaper (Pittsburgh > Post-Gazette) > and I'm trying to help her put together an article on open source software. > > She's curious to put in some examples of things that run OSS that people > might > not even be aware of (such as TiVo boxes). > > I'm sure that between the various BSDs (especially NetBSD) there are > lots of > devices using OSS. Some specific examples would be a great help to my > advocacy efforts in this area. > > Any specifics or pointers to sites or any type of information whatsoever > would be very helpful! > > TIA > Apart from the tons of stuff Linux is used for, we use FreeBSD as a platform to develop server appliances (DNS, IDS/IDP, mail, etc). I'm not a big NetBSD person (run it on an Ultra 1 that FreeBSD won't work on yet), but I imagine that if you want to find a BSD that runs on embedded systems, that you check out stuff on NetBSD. NetBSD currently runs on everything, including my toaster ;). To be quite serious, it will run on pocket PCs, Dreamcasts, ... you name it. I'd do a http://www.google.com/bsd?q=netbsd+embedded search. I believe there's also a NetBSD-Advocacy list similar to ours, you may want to ask there (I'm forwarding your message to that list as well). NetBSD folks: let it loose :) --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 10:26:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0238A16A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9F043D45 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:26:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:2531 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ag6lN-0000h0-3Q; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:26:09 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:18:58 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-107.acuson.com ([157.226.46.107]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNN08DA; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:17:49 -0800 From: Johnson David To: "Devon H. O'Dell" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:23:44 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <40022857.9030608@offmyserver.com> In-Reply-To: <40022857.9030608@offmyserver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401121023.45036.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1Ag6lN-0000h0-3Q*t72WYuDxPQw* Subject: Re: FreeBeerSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:28 -0000 On Sunday 11 January 2004 08:53 pm, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > My housemate made this as a joke using a stock picture of one of our > appliances. Anybody appreciating servers and Dutch beer will > appreciate this photo. I've always preferred the Irish version: FreeBSD for Strength! David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 12:36:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D8C16A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:36:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from zardoz.rd.imagescape.com (zardoz.rd.imagescape.com [66.100.151.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14F443D8A for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stox@imagescape.com) Received: from [192.168.2.3] (adsl-68-22-205-71.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net [68.22.205.71]) (authenticated bits=0)i0CKXshm025596; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:34:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stox@imagescape.com) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: Bill Moran In-Reply-To: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> References: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Imaginary Landscape, LLC. Message-Id: <1073939621.61461.94.camel@stox.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:33:41 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I need some data for a mainstream news artical X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:36:26 -0000 On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 10:14, Bill Moran wrote: > Hello all, > > I've managed to get a contact with a local newspaper (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) > and I'm trying to help her put together an article on open source software. > > She's curious to put in some examples of things that run OSS that people might > not even be aware of (such as TiVo boxes). > > I'm sure that between the various BSDs (especially NetBSD) there are lots of > devices using OSS. Some specific examples would be a great help to my > advocacy efforts in this area. > > Any specifics or pointers to sites or any type of information whatsoever > would be very helpful! > > TIA Sure would be nice to put some dollar figures along with that list. If it could be done, I suspect that we would find that BSD based systems are in excess of a $1B/year business. That would definitely draw some attention. -Ken Stox stox@imagescape.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 16:20:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD0E16A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from flat.berklix.org (bim.bsn.com [194.221.32.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0980943D8D for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:19:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (pD950EA58.dip.t-dialin.net [217.80.234.88]) (authenticated bits=0) by flat.berklix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D0JPv6069260; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:19:30 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by js.berklix.net (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D0JCGQ009896; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:19:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0D0JBSd008402; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:19:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200401130019.i0D0JBSd008402@flip.jhs.private> To: Bill Moran In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Moran of "Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:14:05 EST." <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:19:10 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I need some data for a mainstream news artical X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:20:04 -0000 Bill Moran wrote: > She's curious to put in some examples of things that run OSS that people migh > t > not even be aware of (such as TiVo boxes). http://berklix.com/scanjet/ HP Network Scanjet, a paper sheet scanner with automatic sheet feeder, that now runs FreeBSD 4 & 5 & Linux, instead of original NT. - Julian Stacey. Unix C & Net Services Consultant - Munich. http://berklix.com Mail me in Ascii plain text: Html + Mime is dumped as Spam. Schnupftabak probieren: Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Software patents ? vampires would approve ! http://berklix.com/patents/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 18:46:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4767C16A4D0 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mmp4.vsnl.net (mmp4.vsnl.net [203.200.235.184]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591B743D67 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:46:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ramanraj@md4.vsnl.net.in) Received: from md4.vsnl.net.in ([127.0.0.1]) by mmp4.vsnl.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRE007CPQCXXS@mmp4.vsnl.net> for advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:16:10 +0530 (IST) Received: from ([219.65.108.199]) by mmp4.vsnl.net (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall Unix); Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:16:10 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:18:56 +0530 From: Ramanraj K To: "Kenneth P. Stox" Message-id: <40035C98.7020909@md4.vsnl.net.in> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020610 References: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> <1073939621.61461.94.camel@stox.dyndns.org> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Bill Moran Subject: Free For All X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:46:25 -0000 >I'm trying to help her put together an article on open source software. > >Any specifics or pointers to sites or any type of information whatsoever >would be very helpful! > Free For All documents the free software history and evolution in an interesting narrative and is available at: http://www.wayner.org/books/ffa/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 01:39:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF7416A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mimoza.pantel.net (mimoza.pantel.net [212.24.191.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8B543D48; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:39:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arutz@mimoza.pantel.net) Received: by mimoza.pantel.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 62BEC10B1B; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:39:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:39:03 +0100 From: Antal Rutz To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: PanTel cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:39:05 -0000 Hi. I just read the status report of the year 2003 from DragonFlyBSD. I ask (not only) myself why don't we have something like this monthly or bi-monthly. I regularly read the cvs-src and current lists, but surely there are many developments that I can't understand from the commit messages. And what about a regular user, who just reads some relnotes and can't see the continuous work? There are weekly news about what code got into the latest Linux kernels. But I'd like to know what's going on about FreeBSD! I don't think so that it would take a whole day to just write down a few lines every (second) month about the work is in progress and/or done. The last of these reports was written in September last year (by Scott Long and Robert Watson). pity. My intention is far from hurting anybody. Just want to get the information what other OS-users (linux/dragonfly) got. -- --arutz From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 02:02:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EB016A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680CB43D1F; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) i0DA21gh091413; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:02:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0DA21B6014088; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:02:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0DA21on014087; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:02:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:02:01 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte To: Antal Rutz Message-ID: <20040113100201.GA14069@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:02:07 -0000 On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 10:39:03AM +0100, Antal Rutz wrote: Do you volunteer to write it? Basically it boils down to people experiencing writing reports as 'real work', so it is not overly popular. Given that I'm writing the core monthly reports I know why.. Wilko > Hi. > > I just read the status report of the year 2003 from DragonFlyBSD. > > I ask (not only) myself why don't we have something like this monthly or > bi-monthly. I regularly read the cvs-src and current lists, but surely there > are many developments that I can't understand from the commit messages. And > what about a regular user, who just reads some relnotes and can't see the > continuous work? > > There are weekly news about what code got into the latest Linux kernels. > But I'd like to know what's going on about FreeBSD! I don't think so that it > would take a whole day to just write down a few lines every (second) month > about the work is in progress and/or done. > > The last of these reports was written in September last year (by Scott Long > and Robert Watson). > pity. > > My intention is far from hurting anybody. Just want to get the information > what other OS-users (linux/dragonfly) got. > > -- > > > --arutz > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ---end of quoted text--- -- | / o / /_ _ |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 02:25:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E98816A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from daemon.li (daemon.li [213.203.244.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6661F43D41; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:25:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josef@daemon.li) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1000) by daemon.li with local; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:25:35 +0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:25:35 +0000 From: Josef El-Rayes To: Wilko Bulte Message-ID: <20040113102535.GA6873@daemon.li> References: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> <20040113100201.GA14069@freebie.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040113100201.GA14069@freebie.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Reply-Path: j.el-rayes@daemon.li cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.el-rayes@daemon.li List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:25:41 -0000 Wilko Bulte wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 10:39:03AM +0100, Antal Rutz wrote: > > Do you volunteer to write it? i would help out with markup & writing. -josef From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 02:49:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC5316A4CF; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EAFE43D48; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DAn8dN001118; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:49:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Antal Rutz From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:39:03 +0100." <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:49:08 +0100 Message-ID: <1117.1073990948@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:49:13 -0000 In message <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net>, Antal Rutz writes: >Hi. > >I just read the status report of the year 2003 from DragonFlyBSD. > >I ask (not only) myself why don't we have something like this monthly or >bi-monthly. Because everybody who thought about this concept went on to think "and what is core@ doing about it ??!" rather than open an editor and begin to write :-) Seriously: It would be great to have. By all means begin right away! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 03:44:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83B416A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 03:44:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9344A43D1D; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 03:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 52BBE532B; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:44:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 3FC8E5323; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:44:10 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id C57F833C6A; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:44:09 +0100 (CET) To: Antal Rutz References: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:44:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> (Antal Rutz's message of "Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:39:03 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: ss X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK, RCVD_IN_SORBS autolearn=no version=2.61 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:44:21 -0000 Antal Rutz writes: > I just read the status report of the year 2003 from DragonFlyBSD. > I ask (not only) myself why don't we have something like this monthly or= =20 > bi-monthly. We used to, but it proved to be too hard to get people to actually send in material for the report. There are basically two ways to do this: 1) get committers to submit status reports about the work they have done or are currently doing. Doesn't seem to work. 2) have somebody keep track of everything that happens and write it down. Nobody has volunteered so far (though bmah@ does it to some extent with the release notes) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 04:56:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C534C16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24AE43D49 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@dravis.net) Received: from dravis.net (adsl-63-193-118-191.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.118.191]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0DCtIFC003701 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:55:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4003EAEA.3010000@dravis.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:56:10 -0800 From: "Paul J. Dravis" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6a) Gecko/20031030 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Open Source report, sponsored by infoDev / World Bank X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:56:05 -0000 The report noted below may be of interest. Feel free to share it with others. Your feedback and questions are welcome. Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The report "Open Source Software: Perspectives for Development" was released at the infoDev Symposium, held in conjunction with the World Summit on an Information Society in Geneva (Dec.). This effort was commissioned by infoDev /World Bank. The report intends to assist decision makers, globally, in better understanding Open Source software when assessing this technology option. Presented are initiatives by governments around the world, a selection of private sector uses of Open Source, support by commercial technology providers, a set of case studies in developing countries, along with a brief status of the legal landscape. The report is located at http://www.infodev.org/symp2003/publications/OpenSourceSoftware.pdf ___________________ Paul J. Dravis The Dravis Group www.dravis.net San Francisco, CA 415-665-8745 direct 415-665-8749 fax From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 05:49:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1217416A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1619E43D2F; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 05:48:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from george@sddi.net) Received: from defbox ([141.155.151.85]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040113134857.HZAX20713.out003.verizon.net@defbox>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:48:57 -0600 From: "G. Rosamond" To: , Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:48:29 -0500 Organization: Secure Design & Development, Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [141.155.151.85] at Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:48:56 -0600 Subject: NYC BSD User Group being launched X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: george@sddi.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:49:01 -0000 We have initiated a BSD user group in New York City called NYCBUG (pronounced "nice-bug"). There are two goals for this new user group: First, to provide a forum for the many BSD users in New York City to discuss and debate topics of interest to the BSD community. Second, to provide a bridge to users interested in learning more about or expanding their knowledge of the BSD family. Our kick-off event will be a free "birds-of-a-feather" session at LinuxWorld Expo at the Jacob Javits Center on January 22nd at 5:45pm, Room 1E15. We will have a presence at various tables at the expo, including those of BSDMall and New York PHP. Our first presentation, "Secure by Default: Learning from OpenBSD," will be held on Wednesday, February 4th at 7:00pm in the offices of SageSecure, 116 West 23rd Street and 6th Avenue on the fifth floor. To be given by Wes Sonnenreich, author of "Building Linux and OpenBSD Firewalls" and "Network Security Illustrated," this talk will deal with crucial security concepts and best practices for today's computing environments. Subsequent meetings will take place at 7:00pm on the first Wednesday of the month. Our website is located at www.nycbug.org. The site will include a joint documentation project with New York PHP and OpenlySecure.org, focused on providing original documentation to new and experienced BSD users alike. NYCBUG also provides community mailing lists to assist in discussion and learning about the BSD world. Interested users join the mailing list at http://www.nycbug.org/mailinglist.html. NYCBUG is open to all interested individuals, including, but not limited to, users of FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD, OpenDarwin, Darwin and Mac OSX. Since the origins of Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) UNIX in the 1970's, BSD has been a consistent force among the backroom servers of the world, powering internet service providers, hosting firms, and web sites such as Yahoo! and 2600.com. NYCBUG works to assist current users, those interested in learning more about this fundamental operating system family and various other BSD projects, and to provide a channel for community interaction. We look forward to supporting the BSD community in a variety of ways in the coming months and years. Please join us in making NYCBUG a success. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 07:11:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B94F416A4DA for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:11:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mho.com (smtp.mho.net [64.58.4.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F197F43DA0 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:10:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 12132 invoked by uid 1002); 13 Jan 2004 15:10:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO freebsd.org) (64.58.1.252) by smtp.mho.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 15:10:22 -0000 Message-ID: <400409F4.3090205@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:08:36 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031103 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Antal Rutz References: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> In-Reply-To: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:11:46 -0000 Hi, There seems to have been quite a bit of discussion about this while I was sleeping. Since I'm the one who has done these reports, I'll toss in some comments. The primary reason why the reports have gotten less frequent is because of lack of time on my part. It is _not_ (as some suggested) because developers are too lazy to send me reports when I ask for them. It just happens that whenever it's time to start soliciting reports for the bi-monthly thing, either a release cycle has just start or just ended. So I'm either swamped or highly burnt out. I enjoy putting the reports together, and I really do feel bad that I haven't kept up on them since they are so valuable. The bottleneck in this process is not that it takes too much time/effort to put them together. Taking all of the submissions and turning them into a report takes about 1-2 evenings. There is of course a but of overhead spent on sending the solicitation emails and reminders, but it's not all that bad. It really comes down to me being too busy to remember to start the process. There was a hint at suggesting that we should move to the Linux LKML model, where someone follows the mailing list and writes brief summaries on it. I think that that would be an excellent project, and I highly encourage someone to take that on. However, I don't think that that would totally replace the bi-monthly report, since those allow the developers to go into a bit more detail than what can be summarized on a list. So I think that both forms of reports could complement each other very well. As for having another bi-monthly status report, let me start up the process tonight for the Nov-Dec 2003 report. Stay tuned..... Scott Antal Rutz wrote: > Hi. > > I just read the status report of the year 2003 from DragonFlyBSD. > > I ask (not only) myself why don't we have something like this monthly or > bi-monthly. I regularly read the cvs-src and current lists, but surely there > are many developments that I can't understand from the commit messages. And > what about a regular user, who just reads some relnotes and can't see the > continuous work? > > There are weekly news about what code got into the latest Linux kernels. > But I'd like to know what's going on about FreeBSD! I don't think so that it > would take a whole day to just write down a few lines every (second) month > about the work is in progress and/or done. > > The last of these reports was written in September last year (by Scott Long > and Robert Watson). > pity. > > My intention is far from hurting anybody. Just want to get the information > what other OS-users (linux/dragonfly) got. > > -- > > > --arutz > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 07:57:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E4116A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from netmeister.org (netmeister.org [64.81.200.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60A443D46 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:57:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jschauma@netmeister.org) Received: by netmeister.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EDB382DC624; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:01:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:01:54 -0500 From: Jan Schaumann To: "Devon H. O'Dell" Message-ID: <20040113160154.GC21354@netmeister.org> Mail-Followup-To: "Devon H. O'Dell" , Bill Moran , advocacy@freebsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org References: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> <4002C8EB.8060409@offmyserver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4002C8EB.8060409@offmyserver.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Bill Moran cc: netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org Subject: Re: I need some data for a mainstream news artical X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:57:23 -0000 --NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Devon H. O'Dell" wrote: =20 > NetBSD currently runs on everything, including my toaster ;). To be quite= =20 > serious, it will run on pocket PCs, Dreamcasts, ... you name it. I'd do a= =20 > http://www.google.com/bsd?q=3Dnetbsd+embedded search. I believe there's a= lso=20 > a NetBSD-Advocacy list similar to ours, you may want to ask there (I'm=20 > forwarding your message to that list as well). Just a few links from our main page in this context: http://www.netbsd.org/Misc/embed.html http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/products.html http://www.wasabisystems.com/embedded/hardware.html I'm sure other people can fill in more information. -Jan --=20 "When it's fall in New York, the air smells as if someone's been frying goats in it, and if you are keen to breathe the best plan is to open a window and stick your head in a building." --NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (NetBSD) iD8DBQFABBZyfFtkr68iakwRAnVTAJ9YaM21RO7UKAdEmg5wsX1Qd9cvLQCeIkuS C22jZ84ijoXQFU6zZukyiFs= =2wxh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NU0Ex4SbNnrxsi6C-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 10:22:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13C816A518 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep14-int.chello.nl (amsfep14-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6960043D72 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20040113182226.KIGW20057.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:22:26 +0100 Message-ID: <40043720.9050002@sitetronics.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:21:20 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Schaumann References: <4002C7CD.3040002@potentialtech.com> <4002C8EB.8060409@offmyserver.com> <20040113160154.GC21354@netmeister.org> In-Reply-To: <20040113160154.GC21354@netmeister.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org cc: "Devon H. O'Dell" cc: Bill Moran Subject: Re: I need some data for a mainstream news artical X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:22:36 -0000 > Just a few links from our main page in this context: > > http://www.netbsd.org/Misc/embed.html > http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/products.html > http://www.wasabisystems.com/embedded/hardware.html > > I'm sure other people can fill in more information. > > -Jan > Thanks, Jan, I'm sure this is a great reference for Bill Moran. It'd also be nice if the FreeBSD webpage would have some of this information -- I'm not sure if it does; admittedly, I haven't looked. To provide perspective, Apple's Darwin and the OSKit listed on the gallery/products.html part of NetBSD's site have also based some of their functionality on FreeBSD. I know for a fact that the OSKit manual lists specifically which sections come from FreeBSD; this might be something to look into. I'd like to state again that we at OffMyServer use FreeBSD in our appliances. We are working on development of most of them, but our hosting, DNS, mail and ISP appliances all use a FreeBSD core. If you're interested in more information about our products, please email matt@offmyserver.com or myself; we'll be happy to give you more information. Kind regards, Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 12:07:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C536B16A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3DC243D6A; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:06:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AgUnx-000LQD-10; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:06:25 +0000 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1AgUnv-000H8n-A0; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:06:23 +0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:06:23 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20040113200623.GJ61781@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Robert Watson , "Devon H. O'Dell" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <40022A74.4050103@sitetronics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dwWFXG4JqVa0wfCP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:07:48 -0000 --dwWFXG4JqVa0wfCP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 12:36:15AM -0500, Robert Watson wrote: >=20 > On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: >=20 > > I was thinking about taking some pictures of trains here in Holland, but > > they don't get washed very often and the sleek looking ones are all > > rather... dirty.=20 > >=20 > > I don't know what Robert's idea was, but in my own imagination, I see a > > silver, streamlined train with a clearly visible cockpit and at least 1 > > car behind it (though 2 or 3 would be nice). As always, the larger the > > picture (WRT resolution), the better. Backgrounds can be anything; these > > can be easily removed. As long as it's silver and sexy, it fits the > > image I had in mind when I saw Robert's ASCII vision ;)=20 >=20 > Yeah, something stylized might work, I think. It's true that it's very > hard to find a decent train. It should probably be the TGV; that is one sweet looking train (and the name fits): http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/tgv/images/ng/mx100_03.jpg. The website has other photos and contact details for the copyright owners too. Ceri --=20 --dwWFXG4JqVa0wfCP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFABE+/ocfcwTS3JF8RAqjJAKCs082AfZy8GPj8S5NyxpCn/j3TsACffobd kUsSkC4ypdiMGZ2zUbqffuA= =GQFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dwWFXG4JqVa0wfCP-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 13:42:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D6916A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub1.midco.net (mailhub1.midco.net [24.220.0.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2EE343D4C for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:41:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pmes@bis.midco.net) Received: (qmail 1440 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jan 2004 21:41:58 -0000 Received: from host-195-219-220-24.midco.net (HELO bis.midco.net) ([24.220.219.195]) (envelope-sender ) by lvs-pop.midco.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Jan 2004 21:41:58 -0000 Message-ID: <40046625.1030905@bis.midco.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:41:57 -0600 From: Peter Schultz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031215 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> In-Reply-To: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Bikeshed Reports [was: Status reports - why not regularly?] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:42:00 -0000 Over 2003 I inadvertently started around four bikesheds. Every time it happened I wanted to document it so that the beating of dead horses could be kept to a minimum. It would basically list items of great contention or things that just plain need a good hacker's attention. Hindsight is 20/20, but I think a resource like this would have prevented me from pushing people's buttons. It's not all that easy to harvest bikeshed discussions from the mailing lists, and a lot of them have to do with issues that end users are interested in. I adore FreeBSD volunteers and don't like to see them bothered with what color to paint a bikeshed. I can dig up something on this if it's of interest to people. Pete... From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 14:10:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9B816A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D4943D5C for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9DE15440 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fubar.adept.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 07772-08 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from adept.org (mojo.televoke.net [63.237.196.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC0715239 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <40046CAF.7060709@adept.org> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:09:51 -0800 From: Mike Hoskins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031110 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <000b01c3d57f$a5c4d910$c701a8c0@diamond> <3FFCB0F2.6040206@adept.org> <200401111442.57782.dgw@liwest.at> In-Reply-To: <200401111442.57782.dgw@liwest.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD Today (modular devel tools? or what was it again?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:10:29 -0000 Daniela wrote: > What??? Remove the compiler for better security??? a lot of traditional security checklists have suggested "removing anything not absolutely necessary" when "hardening" machines. the idea is usually to make things as "hard as possible" for would-be attackers (as long as the changes are easy to manage, and removing/changing some subset of standard tools is certainly easy/scritable). many of the security measures put into place can often be worked around... it's by layering various approaches and making attacks hard for all but the (in)famous "determined attacker" that significant security is gained. in short, i don't currently do this on my boxes (although i have stripped a number of other "standard" binaries on firewall appliance machines before, using cfengine to regularly verify/enforce their removal... the same with removing SUID/SGID bits on utils i never use), but there is some arguable amount of "security relevance"... about the same as getting a car alarm... which any real thief can easily bypass. i also originally assumed anyone taking the time to write "compiler removal" into their security policies would have done enough auditing and analysis to understand what they were trying to gain (who does something like this ad-hoc? no one who plans to keep thier job.), and what other systemic tidbits may cause similar "problems". (having a hex editor lying around probably wouldn't be in line with that thought. ;) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 14:17:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2D016A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DEC743D41 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F0015440 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fubar.adept.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 07978-01 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from adept.org (mojo.televoke.net [63.237.196.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0257015239 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:17:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <40046E80.70607@adept.org> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:17:36 -0800 From: Mike Hoskins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031110 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> <400227B0.4020805@sitetronics.com> <400228E6.60403@centtech.com> <40022A74.4050103@sitetronics.com> In-Reply-To: <40022A74.4050103@sitetronics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:17:41 -0000 Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I was thinking about taking some pictures of trains here in Holland, but > they don't get washed very often and the sleek looking ones are all > rather... dirty. if FreeBSD were a train, i think it'd be a tokyo bullet train... but that's just my impression. ;) maybe a source of inpsiration. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 14:19:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CDC16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC8643D73 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:19:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-212-169-31.jan.bellsouth.net [68.212.169.31]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9F01551E for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:19:38 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id ACE6020F2D; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:19:36 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:19:36 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD Subject: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:19:49 -0000 I've long been tossing around the idea of writing a "BSD for Linux Users" sort of essay. I wanted to approach it, not from the direction of building a laundry list of command correspondences and differences like that, but rather by describing some of the design philosophy and methodology that cause the differences. My theory is that once you understand those foundations, the upper-level differences are both easier to figure out, and make more sense when you do figure them out. I've had lots of it floating around my head, and some bits and pieces scratched out in text files floating around my homedir. But I finally took a weekend to sit down and try and pull it all together. It's now on my webpage starting at . It's rather long (somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 words), but I think it's fairly readable. I'd be interested in any feedback on it, especially from Linux users anybody might know who've had trouble grasping the BSD Way(tm). -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 14:32:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9AC16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep16-int.chello.nl (amsfep16-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0F343D9C for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@offmyserver.com) Received: from offmyserver.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep16-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20040113223142.RRQS13071.amsfep16-int.chello.nl@offmyserver.com>; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:31:42 +0100 Message-ID: <40047194.3090106@offmyserver.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:30:44 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Hoskins References: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> <400227B0.4020805@sitetronics.com> <400228E6.60403@centtech.com> <40022A74.4050103@sitetronics.com> <40046E80.70607@adept.org> In-Reply-To: <40046E80.70607@adept.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:32:37 -0000 Mike Hoskins wrote: > Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > >> I was thinking about taking some pictures of trains here in Holland, >> but they don't get washed very often and the sleek looking ones are >> all rather... dirty. > > > if FreeBSD were a train, i think it'd be a tokyo bullet train... but > that's just my impression. ;) maybe a source of inpsiration. > This is exactly the train I am referring to -- the one with very few decent-quality pictures. Although a nice, shiny modern steamliner might be nice. Eric: any luck finding one of these? --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 14:42:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 061A516A4CF for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B273843D62 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419FD15440 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fubar.adept.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 08005-10 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from adept.org (mojo.televoke.net [63.237.196.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0111E15239 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4004745B.2050807@adept.org> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:35 -0800 From: Mike Hoskins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031110 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <1117.1073990948@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <1117.1073990948@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:42:40 -0000 [i snipped the current CC.] Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net>, Antal Rutz writes: >>Hi. >>I just read the status report of the year 2003 from DragonFlyBSD. >>I ask (not only) myself why don't we have something like this monthly or >>bi-monthly. > Because everybody who thought about this concept went on to think > "and what is core@ doing about it ??!" rather than open an editor > and begin to write :-) > Seriously: It would be great to have. By all means begin right away! no offense, as this is usually the "do it yourself" open source way i subscribe to... however, i believe the original point was to have someone _knowledable_ write the reports. hence the typical allusion to core. i don't think it has to be core, but it should be someone with a good architectural understanding of BSD and Free in particular... that way they can filter the core data and sources like cvs-all into something meaningful to the masses. i mean... i could just pull all the data together and turn it into a "report". but i seriously doubt it'd be more useful than just browsing cvs-all online... so the right person has to do the reporting for it to actually be of value IMCO. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 14:43:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 803AA16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAE043D2D for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:43:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:4209 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AgXFF-0001tN-6K; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:42:45 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:35:53 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-107.acuson.com ([157.226.46.107]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDN3A4VL; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:34:40 -0800 From: Johnson David To: "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:40:37 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> In-Reply-To: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401131440.37446.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1AgXFF-0001tN-6K*6rZ11Tu1UNs* Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:43:02 -0000 On Tuesday 13 January 2004 02:19 pm, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > It's now on my webpage starting at > >. It's rather long (somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 words), > but I think it's fairly readable. I'd be interested in any feedback > on it, especially from Linux users anybody might know who've had > trouble grasping the BSD Way(tm). 1) The color scheme is damaging to my eyeballs. 2) It is way too condescending towards Linux and Linux users. We want to welcome Linux users, not make them feel inferior. Remove your personal opinions. Marking them as personal opinion isn't sufficient. 3) The connection is very, very slow. So I haven't read through it all. But the above two stood out as problematic reading through the first two pages. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 15:21:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FEE16A4CF for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from anuket.mj.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [65.115.46.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BFD43D77 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:21:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkim@niksun.com) Received: from daemon.mj.niksun.com (daemon.mj.niksun.com [10.70.0.244]) i0DNLcuv049549; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:21:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jkim@niksun.com) X-RAV-AntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses. From: Jung-uk Kim Organization: Niksun, Inc. To: "Devon H. O'Dell" , Mike Hoskins Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:21:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040107235659.B32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> <40046E80.70607@adept.org> <40047194.3090106@offmyserver.com> In-Reply-To: <40047194.3090106@offmyserver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401131821.35575.jkim@niksun.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:21:55 -0000 On Tuesday 13 January 2004 05:30 pm, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > Mike Hoskins wrote: > > Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > >> I was thinking about taking some pictures of trains here in > >> Holland, but they don't get washed very often and the sleek > >> looking ones are all rather... dirty. > > > > if FreeBSD were a train, i think it'd be a tokyo bullet train... > > but that's just my impression. ;) maybe a source of > > inpsiration. > > This is exactly the train I am referring to -- the one with very > few decent-quality pictures. Although a nice, shiny modern > steamliner might be nice. Eric: any luck finding one of these? How about a korean train? http://i.photo.empas.com/okoasis/okoasis_1/sp/1/%BB%E7%C1%F8%20051.jpg JK > --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 18:08:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6422316A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8AF43D41; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0E26nUd037505; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:06:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i0E26nOZ037502; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:06:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:06:49 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Peter Schultz In-Reply-To: <40046625.1030905@bis.midco.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bikeshed Reports [was: Status reports - why not regularly?] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:08:33 -0000 On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Peter Schultz wrote: > Over 2003 I inadvertently started around four bikesheds. Every time it > happened I wanted to document it so that the beating of dead horses > could be kept to a minimum. It would basically list items of great > contention or things that just plain need a good hacker's attention. > > Hindsight is 20/20, but I think a resource like this would have > prevented me from pushing people's buttons. It's not all that easy to > harvest bikeshed discussions from the mailing lists, and a lot of them > have to do with issues that end users are interested in. I adore > FreeBSD volunteers and don't like to see them bothered with what color > to paint a bikeshed. > > I can dig up something on this if it's of interest to people. I'd be happy to help set up a www.freebsd.org/project/bikeshed web page to hold the hard-earned results of your research. Although perhaps they actually belong in the FAQ :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 18:17:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6461F16A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-in.m-online.net (svr8.m-online.net [62.245.150.237]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0BD43D49; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from h@schmalzbauer.de) Received: from mail.m-online.net (svr14.m-online.net [192.168.3.144]) by svr8.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D1DF343; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:17:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from cale.flintsbach.schmalzbauer.de (ppp-62-245-210-106.mnet-online.de [62.245.210.106]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCBA35E79; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:17:46 +0100 (CET) From: Harald Schmalzbauer To: Robert Watson , Peter Schultz Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:17:40 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: X-Birthday: 06 Oktober 1972 X-Name: Harald Schmalzbauer X-Phone1: +49 (0) 163 555 3237 X-Phone2: +49 (0) 89 18947781 X-Address: Munich, 80686 X-Country: Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Boundary-02=_KbKBAoWHoKL4Gjs"; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200401140317.46071@harrymail> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bikeshed Reports [was: Status reports - why not regularly?] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:17:50 -0000 --Boundary-02=_KbKBAoWHoKL4Gjs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: signed data Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 14 January 2004 03:06, Robert Watson wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Peter Schultz wrote: > > Over 2003 I inadvertently started around four bikesheds. Every time it > > happened I wanted to document it so that the beating of dead horses > > could be kept to a minimum. It would basically list items of great > > contention or things that just plain need a good hacker's attention. > > > > Hindsight is 20/20, but I think a resource like this would have > > prevented me from pushing people's buttons. It's not all that easy to > > harvest bikeshed discussions from the mailing lists, and a lot of them > > have to do with issues that end users are interested in. I adore > > FreeBSD volunteers and don't like to see them bothered with what color > > to paint a bikeshed. > > > > I can dig up something on this if it's of interest to people. > > I'd be happy to help set up a www.freebsd.org/project/bikeshed web page to > hold the hard-earned results of your research. Although perhaps they > actually belong in the FAQ :-). This sounds great! And I hav an idea about the very first pragraph: What th= e=20 hack is bikeshed? =46rom the context I guess it's something like braindamaged circumstance/id= ea. But no dictionary has helped me so far. It also looks to be FreeBSD specifi= c,=20 isn't it? Thank you, =2DHarry > > Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects > robert@fledge.watson.org Senior Research Scientist, McAfee Research > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --Boundary-02=_KbKBAoWHoKL4Gjs Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBABKbKBylq0S4AzzwRAkSTAJ0blYZZBQu2HQtsw/HKThHr4FjefACdHtGb GOuR4CiMzU0kVeuwbmDOUfQ= =Nahp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_KbKBAoWHoKL4Gjs-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 18:56:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDA116A4CE; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D3243D55; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:56:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i0E2unHV053597; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:56:49 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)i0E2umoG053594; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:56:48 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:56:48 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Harald Schmalzbauer In-Reply-To: <200401140317.46071@harrymail> Message-ID: <20040114044747.U32387-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Peter Schultz cc: Robert Watson cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bikeshed Reports [was: Status reports - why not regularly?] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 02:56:57 -0000 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Harald Schmalzbauer wrote: > On Wednesday 14 January 2004 03:06, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Peter Schultz wrote: > > > Over 2003 I inadvertently started around four bikesheds. Every time it > > > happened I wanted to document it so that the beating of dead horses > > > could be kept to a minimum. It would basically list items of great > > > contention or things that just plain need a good hacker's attention. > > > > > > Hindsight is 20/20, but I think a resource like this would have > > > prevented me from pushing people's buttons. It's not all that easy to > > > harvest bikeshed discussions from the mailing lists, and a lot of them > > > have to do with issues that end users are interested in. I adore > > > FreeBSD volunteers and don't like to see them bothered with what color > > > to paint a bikeshed. > > > > > > I can dig up something on this if it's of interest to people. > > > > I'd be happy to help set up a www.freebsd.org/project/bikeshed web page to > > hold the hard-earned results of your research. Although perhaps they > > actually belong in the FAQ :-). > > This sounds great! And I hav an idea about the very first pragraph: What the > hack is bikeshed? > From the context I guess it's something like braindamaged circumstance/idea. > No. its more like a simple thing on which everybody has deeply ingrained ideas for the best way that they cannot see go otherwise and hence a long and essentially fruitless discussion unfolds. > But no dictionary has helped me so far. It also looks to be FreeBSD specific, > isn't it? > Not at all. It's from "Parkinson's Laws", a book on corporations, management and why the wrong people tend to end up there from time to time (or slightly more often than that). > Thank you, > > -Harry > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 13 23:53:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A3F16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from web14611.mail.yahoo.com (web14611.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AF1443D1D for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:53:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from plageotakes@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.164.6.243] by web14611.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:53:35 PST Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:53:35 -0800 (PST) From: peter lageotakes To: "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:53:36 -0000 --- "Matthew D. Fuller" wrote: > I've long been tossing around the idea of writing a > "BSD for Linux Users" > sort of essay. I wanted to approach it, not from > the direction of > building a laundry list of command correspondences > and differences like > that, but rather by describing some of the design > philosophy and > methodology that cause the differences. My theory > is that once you > understand those foundations, the upper-level > differences are both easier > to figure out, and make more sense when you do > figure them out. > > I've had lots of it floating around my head, and > some bits and pieces > scratched out in text files floating around my > homedir. But I finally > took a weekend to sit down and try and pull it all > together. > > It's now on my webpage starting at > . > It's rather long (somewhere in the neighborhood of > 11,000 words), but I > think it's fairly readable. I'd be interested in > any feedback on it, > especially from Linux users anybody might know > who've had trouble > grasping the BSD Way(tm). > > > > -- > Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | > fullermd@over-yonder.net > Systems/Network Administrator | > http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ > > "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, > is because I > haven't figured out how to light the middle > yet" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Please do not take offense about the statements below. 1) Adjust the color scheme. It makes it somewhat difficult to read though the site. 2) It is very critical of Linux users. Perhaps identifying the similarities between both operating systems, in that way new Linux users wont be put off or feel to distanced from BSD. Later on in the page contrast the differences between the two operating systems and show both strengths and weakness. 3) Remove personal bias 4) Deeper coverage on packages vs. ports with emphasis to portupgrade. You may want to consider comparing it to various Linux distro packaging system so that the new user can have a reference. 5) Remove "Chaos vs. Order". Your slamming a development model. Both models have merit (compare and contrast). 6) Remove the ego. IE: "BSD users are a bunch of elitist self-centered rude snobs." Yup. And proud of it. " You can be proud *BSD but ego isn't something that a new user want to get shoved in their face when they want to ask a question. Community support and great doc's are a huge plus to many users (FreeBSD has it). 7) Most important; be objective. IMHO, compare contrast in an objective manner and allow the person to make up their mind about *BSD. Set realistic expectations. PS: don't forget to mention that their is ~10,000 prog's in the ports collection. A huge bonus. I havent had a chance to go through the entire site. The above is just a prelim. observation. I applaud your work in the advocacy of *BSD. Please do not the above statements in a negative way. You do have great foundation to the site. I like the lay out and the index. One other thought, how about bumping up the Philosophy and myths up towards the top and dispel some of the preconceived notions about BSD. Pete ===== ESCape with VI. Cheese A La mode. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 00:09:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F3616A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-47.apple.com [17.250.248.47]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F82943D3F for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rolnif@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.6/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id i0E89cEU010392; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (ip-64-139-32-234.dsl.sjc.megapath.net [64.139.47.234] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) i0E89cU1015291; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:09:38 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Martinez Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:09:12 -0800 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:09:40 -0000 On Jan 13, 2004, at 2:19 PM, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > ... > It's now on my webpage starting at > . > Pretty concise, and well written. The only problem I have with it is that there is no mention of Mac OS X as being a BSD-derivative. That's ok, we all still know that it's got BSD in there somewhere! -john From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 00:42:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DD916A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:42:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rdsnet.ro (smtp.rdsnet.ro [62.231.74.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB1143D49 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:42:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itetcu@apropo.ro) Received: (qmail 15108 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2004 08:42:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO it.buh.cameradicommercio.ro) (81.196.25.19) by mail.rdsnet.ro with SMTP; 14 Jan 2004 08:42:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:44:15 +0200 From: Ion-Mihai Tetcu To: Harald Schmalzbauer Message-Id: <20040114104415.6d15ffa1@it.buh.cameradicommercio.ro> In-Reply-To: <200401140317.46071@harrymail> References: <200401140317.46071@harrymail> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Peter Schultz cc: Robert Watson cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bikeshed Reports [was: Status reports - why not regularly?] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:42:45 -0000 On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:17:40 +0100 Harald Schmalzbauer wrote: > On Wednesday 14 January 2004 03:06, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Peter Schultz wrote: > > > Over 2003 I inadvertently started around four bikesheds. Every time it [..] > This sounds great! And I hav an idea about the very first pragraph: What the > hack is bikeshed? > From the context I guess it's something like braindamaged circumstance/idea. > > But no dictionary has helped me so far. It also looks to be FreeBSD specific, > isn't it? Se the FAQ :) http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING -- IOnut Unregistered ;) FreeBSD user From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 08:57:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4EC16A4CE; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8443D54; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (adsl-64-142-31-106.sonic.net [64.142.31.106]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0EGvLts008669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:22 -0800 Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (bmah@localhost [127.0.0.1]) i0EGvLpW006780; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.kitchenlab.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i0EGvKFk006779; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:20 -0800 From: "Bruce A. Mah" To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20040114165720.GB6615@intruder.kitchenlab.org> References: <20040113093903.GA84055@mimoza.pantel.net> <400409F4.3090205@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H1spWtNR+x+ondvy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <400409F4.3090205@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:57:24 -0000 --H1spWtNR+x+ondvy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline If memory serves me right, Scott Long wrote: > There was a hint at suggesting that we should move to the Linux LKML > model, where someone follows the mailing list and writes brief summaries > on it. I think that that would be an excellent project, and I highly > encourage someone to take that on. We (the FreeBSD Documentation Project) tried this a few years ago...it was called the "FreeBSD Conspectus". It never worked real well...possibly because we tried to use it as a vehicle for non-committers to demonstrate their ability to get a doc commit bit. The few people who tried this tended to disappear after a few weeks. I think we finally removed all this stuff from the Web site last year, but it's still in CVS somewhere. Still, if anyone's interested, I'd say go for it. It doesn't require any special blessing from core or anyone else to summarize email on a list and post a report. Bruce. --H1spWtNR+x+ondvy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFABXTw2MoxcVugUsMRAhMiAKDkJEnMwvZAwq5QjKMvLgUohtK/IwCgnb57 hV6Xrh63G5ArX/1pHkdsabs= =kRDH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H1spWtNR+x+ondvy-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 09:26:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EEC16A4CE; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk (reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DCB43D41; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:26:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1AgomT-0003y1-00; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:26:13 +0000 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 14 Jan 04 17:26:13 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 14 Jan 04 17:25:49 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 14 Jan 04 17:25:46 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Scott Long'" , "'Antal Rutz'" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:25:46 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01c3dac3$71f38b10$1b01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <400409F4.3090205@freebsd.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Status reports - why not regularly? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:26:23 -0000 Scott Long wrote: > The bottleneck in this process is not that it takes too much > time/effort > to put them together. Taking all of the submissions and turning them > into a report takes about 1-2 evenings. There is of course a but of > overhead spent on sending the solicitation emails and reminders, but > it's not all that bad. It really comes down to me being too busy to > remember to start the process. Would it be of any use if we helped setup a closed mailing list and cron job, so that once every couple of months a mail just get sent out to a pre-defined list of developers (and therefore the maintenance is in keeping that list up to date), they send back their replies (those who don't within a week get a reminder mail) and these get processed into a big "draft" status report that just then gets edited by you (or somebody else?) before you then push it up onto a web server, or send it out to some other mailing lists? Seems like a bit of hacking would save you a lot of time. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to see the guy doing such a good job on release engineering burning out when we might be able to provide the tools for fixing it... If you want, I can throw some code out over the weekend to take a look at. It should just be a bit of perl or python - whatever postmaster is happy pipe'ing mail to in an alias on the freebsd.org mail server really. Let me know if that would help. -- Paul From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 12:54:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E9F16A549 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D1143D45 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0EKiYAS071833 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0EKiYS5071832 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:44:34 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040114124434.A71668@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Subject: FreeBSD Logo on black background? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:54:38 -0000 hey gang, I'm working on the presentation for Oracle. Does anybody have a FreeBSD logo that would go on a black background well? Sure, I could just to the pres with a white background, but it looks tres cool on black ;) also, any ideas for the openoffice slideshow would be helpful! cheers, -matt -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 18:24:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6743016A4D1 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp3.tin.it (vsmtp3.tin.it [212.216.176.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E0B43D2F for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (82.48.219.97) by vsmtp3.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3FF187160026A39E for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:24:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3db0e$b487ce50$60d0fea9@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:24:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:24:30 -0000 John Martinez wrote: > On Jan 13, 2004, at 2:19 PM, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >> ... >> It's now on my webpage starting at >> . >> > Pretty concise, and well written. The only problem I have with it is > that there is no mention of Mac OS X as being a BSD-derivative. That's > ok, we all still know that it's got BSD in there somewhere! > > -john A lot of us have written the page of M. D. Fuller should be rewritten. In my opinion, an idea must be extreme to get attention, even if it should be never extremist. After all, an idea is not a Bible, fortunately - I am agnostic and a little pagan -. Please, do not waste time to reply to my words. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 19:46:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C966016A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp2.tin.it (vsmtp2.tin.it [212.216.176.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D9143D3F for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (82.48.219.218) by vsmtp2.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3FFBFD19001847CB for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:46:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c3db1a$1f209ed0$60d0fea9@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:46:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: the steam-power dreams X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:46:14 -0000 Hi. Somebody has asked for a railroad-styled symbol for FreeBSD. I mean there is nothing better than the PRR S-2 steam-turbine locomotive. It was a dreamy mechanical experiment. It was derived from an S-2 steam-pistons locomotive. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/streamlined/scrapped/prr6200.jpg http://www.skyrocket.de/locomotive/img/prr_s2_6200.jpg Cheers VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 20:27:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B740C16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:27:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798E943D5F for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:27:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F37C1521C; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:26:59 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id D8D2120F2D; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:26:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:26:55 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: peter lageotakes Message-ID: <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: DavidJohnson@Siemens.com cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:27:03 -0000 [ Combined a few responses since they overlap mostly ] Peter / David, > 1) Adjust the color scheme. It makes it somewhat > difficult to read though the site. In the time my page has been up with that color scheme, most people have really liked it. However, there's always been a sizable minority who really dislike it, and a number who just can't deal with it at all. So, I've always had it on my "someday" list to go ahead and put together a few alternate stylesheets. And this is as good an excuse as any. So, if you'll look at the bottom of the navbar, there's a selector for a few alternate color schemes. Hopefully, one of them should be a little less painful for you. > 3) The connection is very, very slow. While the connection isn't exactly a speed demon, the pages are pretty light. Once in a while, though, it does just drop out for a few minutes; you may have hit it over that. > 4) Deeper coverage on packages vs. ports with emphasis > to portupgrade. These are the sort of things I was intentionally avoiding. There's lots of resources on the Hows; my feeling is that when you don't understand the Whys, you'll have a hard time finding the Hows, and a harder time understanding them when you DO find them. I want to try and delineate the Whys, with just enough How to demonstrate them. If I tried to do both, it would be even LONGER. Nobody wants that :) > 5) Remove "Chaos vs. Order". Your slamming a > development model. Both models have merit (compare and > contrast). I wasn't slamming it. The Linux model practically requires, just by its very construction, an abundance of chaos. That's not necessarily _BAD_, and I didn't intend for it to be taken as pejorative. I've added a comment making it a bit more explicit. Y'see, this is why I hate this kind of writing. Sooner or later, someone [not directed at you, but just in general] is going to come up with "That's not always true" or "That doesn't mean we're wrong" or so on. How many times do I have to write "These are all generalizations riddled with exceptions, and when I say 'X is Y' that doesn't imply a value judgement" in one essay?! > 6) Remove the ego. IE: "BSD users are a bunch of > elitist self-centered rude snobs." Yup. And proud of > it. " That's supposed to be irony, not ego. Smiley added to clarify. I've always been a bit uncomfortable with that section anyway. How do you prove or disprove a charge of "elitism"? It's either going to be both sides handwaving and saying "It seems to me", or you're going to pull out some kind of bizarre statistic. Pretty icky either way. I've gone through and done some reworking and clarification in it, and added a bit more. > One other thought, how about bumping up the Philosophy > and myths up towards the top and dispel some of the > preconceived notions about BSD. I messed a lot with the ordering of the pieces (the "Design" and "Technical" sections, particularly, flip-flopped at least a half dozen times). I think making those moves (to me) makes it not flow quite as well, since you're trying to understand the really abstract before the concrete. However, it is intentional in my rants that they be at least somewhat random-access. I've written it to be read all the way through, but with an eye toward keeping it usable by picking out pieces. That's one reason I have the indexes everywhere (that, and I *HATE* sites with multi-page articles, that don't provide indexes, or only in special places). It's not perfect, but it gives a little flexibility. > PS: don't forget to mention that their is ~10,000 > prog's in the ports collection. A huge bonus. Well, shoot; I thought I put that in there! I sprinkled a few mentions in the Program Availability myth section; it seems the best place for it to have an impact. > 2) It is very critical of Linux users. > 3) Remove personal bias > 2) It is way too condescending towards Linux and Linux users. > 7) Most important; be objective. This is the hardest one, because so much of its interpretation is subjective. Some parts of the essay WERE, in fact, written after I'd just spent 12 hours wrestling with something that should have taken about 10 minutes, but didn't because of the way the [Linux] system was put together. I hate RPMs (and all binary packages for that matter) with a passion that knows no bounds. I think it's impossible to write anything like this, and avoid making any value judgements anywhere. I try to make it obvious and severable where I AM doing so, and to never do it unwittingly. I went over the whole thing, both piecemeal and as a whole, many times before I stuck it up on the web. However, when you read anything (particularly your own writing) that many times, you get so used to it and so sick of it that you WILL miss those sort of things. With some more distance, I've gone through it again and fiddled with a lot of wording and added some clarifications. I'd appreciate any pointers to specific sections that you still find particularly egregious in those ways. > I applaud your work in the advocacy of *BSD. Please do > not the above statements in a negative way. You do > have great foundation to the site. I like the lay out > and the index. I take it as constructive criticism (which I _hope_ is in the spirit it's intended :). I know a lot about me; particularly, I know that I hate criticism and get very defensive and stubborn about it. I s'pose it's probably some sort of character flaw or something. Still, I try. I hope some of the changes I've made help cover your concerns. Please, if you can, go through it again and see if it works better for you, and if (as above in the 'bias' section) there's anything you could specifically point me at. Thanks loads, guys. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 20:28:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF6916A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2909943D5D for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0AB91521C; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:28:22 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 5887920F2D; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:28:21 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:28:21 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: John Martinez Message-ID: <20040115042821.GX41788@over-yonder.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:28:29 -0000 On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 12:09:12AM -0800 I heard the voice of John Martinez, and lo! it spake thus: > > Pretty concise, and well written. The only problem I have with it is > that there is no mention of Mac OS X as being a BSD-derivative. That's > ok, we all still know that it's got BSD in there somewhere! *nod* I specifically left it out because... well, I'd say 99% of the people running OS/X run it as MacOS, not as BSD, so it's irrelevant to them anyway. And the 1% running it as BSD are pre-existing BSD people anyway :) Thanks, -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 20:34:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3888016A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3761943D6D for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0F4NHAS075795; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:23:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0F4NHjC075794; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:23:17 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Message-ID: <20040114202317.A75531@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net>; from fullermd@over-yonder.net on Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 10:26:55PM -0600 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:34:01 -0000 nice work Matt! thanks ;) cheers, -matt On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 10:26:55PM -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > [ Combined a few responses since they overlap mostly ] > > Peter / David, > > > 1) Adjust the color scheme. It makes it somewhat > > difficult to read though the site. > > In the time my page has been up with that color scheme, most people have > really liked it. However, there's always been a sizable minority who > really dislike it, and a number who just can't deal with it at all. So, > I've always had it on my "someday" list to go ahead and put together a > few alternate stylesheets. And this is as good an excuse as any. > > So, if you'll look at the bottom of the navbar, there's a selector for a > few alternate color schemes. Hopefully, one of them should be a little > less painful for you. > > > > 3) The connection is very, very slow. > > While the connection isn't exactly a speed demon, the pages are pretty > light. Once in a while, though, it does just drop out for a few minutes; > you may have hit it over that. > > > > 4) Deeper coverage on packages vs. ports with emphasis > > to portupgrade. > > These are the sort of things I was intentionally avoiding. There's lots > of resources on the Hows; my feeling is that when you don't understand > the Whys, you'll have a hard time finding the Hows, and a harder time > understanding them when you DO find them. I want to try and delineate > the Whys, with just enough How to demonstrate them. > > If I tried to do both, it would be even LONGER. Nobody wants that :) > > > > 5) Remove "Chaos vs. Order". Your slamming a > > development model. Both models have merit (compare and > > contrast). > > I wasn't slamming it. The Linux model practically requires, just by its > very construction, an abundance of chaos. That's not necessarily _BAD_, > and I didn't intend for it to be taken as pejorative. I've added a > comment making it a bit more explicit. > > Y'see, this is why I hate this kind of writing. Sooner or later, someone > [not directed at you, but just in general] is going to come up with > "That's not always true" or "That doesn't mean we're wrong" or so on. > How many times do I have to write "These are all generalizations riddled > with exceptions, and when I say 'X is Y' that doesn't imply a value > judgement" in one essay?! > > > > 6) Remove the ego. IE: "BSD users are a bunch of > > elitist self-centered rude snobs." Yup. And proud of > > it. " > > That's supposed to be irony, not ego. Smiley added to clarify. > > I've always been a bit uncomfortable with that section anyway. How do > you prove or disprove a charge of "elitism"? It's either going to be > both sides handwaving and saying "It seems to me", or you're going to > pull out some kind of bizarre statistic. Pretty icky either way. > > I've gone through and done some reworking and clarification in it, and > added a bit more. > > > > One other thought, how about bumping up the Philosophy > > and myths up towards the top and dispel some of the > > preconceived notions about BSD. > > I messed a lot with the ordering of the pieces (the "Design" and > "Technical" sections, particularly, flip-flopped at least a half dozen > times). I think making those moves (to me) makes it not flow quite as > well, since you're trying to understand the really abstract before the > concrete. > > However, it is intentional in my rants that they be at least somewhat > random-access. I've written it to be read all the way through, but with > an eye toward keeping it usable by picking out pieces. That's one reason > I have the indexes everywhere (that, and I *HATE* sites with multi-page > articles, that don't provide indexes, or only in special places). It's > not perfect, but it gives a little flexibility. > > > > PS: don't forget to mention that their is ~10,000 > > prog's in the ports collection. A huge bonus. > > Well, shoot; I thought I put that in there! I sprinkled a few mentions > in the Program Availability myth section; it seems the best place for it > to have an impact. > > > > 2) It is very critical of Linux users. > > 3) Remove personal bias > > 2) It is way too condescending towards Linux and Linux users. > > 7) Most important; be objective. > > This is the hardest one, because so much of its interpretation is > subjective. Some parts of the essay WERE, in fact, written after I'd > just spent 12 hours wrestling with something that should have taken about > 10 minutes, but didn't because of the way the [Linux] system was put > together. I hate RPMs (and all binary packages for that matter) with a > passion that knows no bounds. > > I think it's impossible to write anything like this, and avoid making any > value judgements anywhere. I try to make it obvious and severable where > I AM doing so, and to never do it unwittingly. I went over the whole > thing, both piecemeal and as a whole, many times before I stuck it up on > the web. However, when you read anything (particularly your own writing) > that many times, you get so used to it and so sick of it that you WILL > miss those sort of things. > > With some more distance, I've gone through it again and fiddled with a > lot of wording and added some clarifications. I'd appreciate any > pointers to specific sections that you still find particularly egregious > in those ways. > > > > I applaud your work in the advocacy of *BSD. Please do > > not the above statements in a negative way. You do > > have great foundation to the site. I like the lay out > > and the index. > > I take it as constructive criticism (which I _hope_ is in the spirit it's > intended :). I know a lot about me; particularly, I know that I hate > criticism and get very defensive and stubborn about it. I s'pose it's > probably some sort of character flaw or something. Still, I try. > > > I hope some of the changes I've made help cover your concerns. Please, > if you can, go through it again and see if it works better for you, and > if (as above in the 'bias' section) there's anything you could > specifically point me at. > > > Thanks loads, guys. > > > -- > Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net > Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ > > "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I > haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 20:57:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97DD16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:57:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mmp4.vsnl.net (mmp4.vsnl.net [203.200.235.184]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A720443D31 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:57:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ramanraj@md4.vsnl.net.in) Received: from md4.vsnl.net.in ([127.0.0.1]) by mmp4.vsnl.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HRI00CTTLL45X@mmp4.vsnl.net> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:23:30 +0530 (IST) Received: from ([219.65.96.198]) by mmp4.vsnl.net (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall Unix); Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:23:30 +0530 (IST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:26:19 +0530 From: Ramanraj K To: "Matthew D. Fuller" Message-id: <40061D73.60100@md4.vsnl.net.in> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020610 References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Using CSS well in web pages X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:57:13 -0000 Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >>1) Adjust the color scheme. It makes it somewhat >>difficult to read though the site. >> >> >...So, if you'll look at the bottom of the navbar, there's a selector for a >few alternate color schemes. Hopefully, one of them should be a little >less painful for you. > > I had done something like that at my site too: http://personal.vsnl.com/ramanraj/kr_setstylesheet.html Regards, Ramanraj From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 00:14:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121DD16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E31043D66 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:14:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB01153D2; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:14:42 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id DDC4020F2D; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:14:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:14:40 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Matt Olander Message-ID: <20040115081440.GQ41788@over-yonder.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114202317.A75531@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040114202317.A75531@knight.ixsystems.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: (FreeBSD) for Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:14:45 -0000 Matt, > nice work Matt! thanks ;) Just doing my part to keep up the standards of the name ;-} -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 00:16:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B7416A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF8443D69 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:16:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-19-137-116.jan.bellsouth.net [68.19.137.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B1B153D2; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:11 -0600 (CST) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id A1AE220F2D; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:09 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Ramanraj K Message-ID: <20040115081609.GR41788@over-yonder.net> References: <20040113221936.GJ41788@over-yonder.net> <20040114075335.21841.qmail@web14611.mail.yahoo.com> <20040115042655.GW41788@over-yonder.net> <40061D73.60100@md4.vsnl.net.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40061D73.60100@md4.vsnl.net.in> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using CSS well in web pages X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:16:13 -0000 Ramanraj, > Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > >...So, if you'll look at the bottom of the navbar, there's a selector for a > >few alternate color schemes. Hopefully, one of them should be a little > >less painful for you. > > I had done something like that at my site too: > http://personal.vsnl.com/ramanraj/kr_setstylesheet.html Y'know, I love stylesheets for all the abstract and philosophical reasons. HTML's a decent generalized structural markup language, and I always hated watching it be polluted with a bunch of presentational crap. But it's so much easier to "sell" CSS by showing off how easy these sort of nifty switches are! :) -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 07:00:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A8016A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F4C43D67 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574D83D37 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:00:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <400664C7.10994.5BE3A09@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: BSDCan brochure needed for Linux World 2004 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:00:41 -0000 I'm going to be at Linux World 2004. I want to create a small brochure to advertise BSDCan . I have no skills in this area. I'm looking for a volunteer to create something small, perhaps just business card size or full A4 or 8.5x11 PDF.... Thanks. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 10:57:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA18D16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from lilzmailso02.liwest.at (lilzmailso02.liwest.at [212.33.55.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A81D43D64 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dgw@liwest.at) Received: from cm58-27.liwest.at ([212.33.58.27]) by lilzmailso02.liwest.at with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AhCgO-0006qf-IU; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:57:32 +0100 From: Daniela To: Matt Olander , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:54:48 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <20040114124434.A71668@knight.ixsystems.net> In-Reply-To: <20040114124434.A71668@knight.ixsystems.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401151954.48532.dgw@liwest.at> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Logo on black background? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:57:38 -0000 On Wednesday 14 January 2004 20:44, Matt Olander wrote: > hey gang, > > I'm working on the presentation for Oracle. Does anybody have > a FreeBSD logo that would go on a black background well? Sure, I could > just to the pres with a white background, but it looks tres cool on > black ;) I'd say, take the outlines of the BSD daemon and give it a chrome look. I could eventually do this in Gimp if there's no such one ready. Daniela From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 13:40:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5DD16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71CC043D7C for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:39:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CA93D37 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:39:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:39:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4006C25C.15640.72BCE70@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <400664C7.10994.5BE3A09@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: Re: BSDCan brochure needed for Linux World 2004 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:40:07 -0000 On 15 Jan 2004 at 10:00, Dan Langille wrote: > I'm going to be at Linux World 2004. I want to create a small > brochure to advertise BSDCan . I have no > skills in this area. I'm looking for a volunteer to create something > small, perhaps just business card size or full A4 or 8.5x11 PDF.... On 15 Jan 2004 at 16:09, Hubert Feyrer wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > > I'm going to be at Linux World 2004. I want to create a small > > brochure to advertise BSDCan . I have no > > skills in this area. I'm looking for a volunteer to create something > > small, perhaps just business card size or full A4 or 8.5x11 PDF.... > > www.netbsd.org/gallery/advocacy/ has some TeX files where you just have to > fix the text, print double-sided and fold twice. I lied. Today was a complete disaster from a work point of view, but I did find time I didn't know I'd have. I also found an MS Word template which had a brochure in it. I did substituations and created .doc and .pdf files. The results are at: http://www.freebsddiary.org/advocacy/ Anyone is free to take these and modify them for their own use. Suggestions for improvement welcomed. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 14:10:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2472916A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DE643D70 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0FLxoAS082481 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0FLxoHN082480 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:59:50 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Subject: Oracle Meeting Results X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:10:00 -0000 Today Peter Wemm and I met with Edward Screven the CTO at Oracle to discuss the possiblity of Oracle on FreeBSD natively. The meeting went very well overall and Edward seemed to be cool with the idea. Of course, the Oracle marketing engine is concerned if there is a viable market for gearing up to do something of this nature. What we ended up discussing is a 'not officially supported' development version of Oracle downloadable from their website after filling in the standard who, what, where, and why type of form with the typical disclaimers, which I believe they already do for the other development versions. In an attempt to placate his concerns about supporting a test download like this, we informed him that the FreeBSD community is used to figuring out things on their own, and that we could possibly have a couple of DBA contacts within the community act as primary contacts for initial support and an oracle specific mailing list. I'll keep the list posted as we get any further (or not). thanks Peter! -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 14:17:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5D616A4CE; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailbox.univie.ac.at (mail.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF58443D5A; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:17:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) i0FMHSAC605802; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:17:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:17:22 +0100 (CET) From: Lukas Ertl To: Matt Olander In-Reply-To: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> Message-ID: <20040115231458.N624@korben.in.tern> References: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-ZID-Univie-Metrics: imap 4244; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oracle Meeting Results X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:17:36 -0000 On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Matt Olander wrote: > What we ended up discussing is a 'not officially supported' development > version of Oracle downloadable from their website after filling in the > standard who, what, where, and why type of form with the typical > disclaimers, which I believe they already do for the other development > versions. This is _awesome_ news! > In an attempt to placate his concerns about supporting a test download > like this, we informed him that the FreeBSD community is used to figuring > out things on their own, and that we could possibly have a couple of DBA > contacts within the community act as primary contacts for initial > support and an oracle specific mailing list. You may abuse me as you like :-) (Yes, I'm really in need of a native Oracle - not necessarily the server, but definitely the client.) regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 14:21:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B56516A4CE; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from chen.org.nz (chen.org.nz [210.54.19.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C1443D2D; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:21:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonc@chen.org.nz) Received: by chen.org.nz (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 671DB13651; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:21:52 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:21:52 +1300 From: Jonathan Chen To: Matt Olander Message-ID: <20040115222152.GA92221@grimoire.chen.org.nz> References: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oracle Meeting Results X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:21:56 -0000 On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 01:59:50PM -0800, Matt Olander wrote: > Today Peter Wemm and I met with Edward Screven the CTO at Oracle to > discuss the possiblity of Oracle on FreeBSD natively. The meeting went > very well overall and Edward seemed to be cool with the idea. > > Of course, the Oracle marketing engine is concerned if there is a viable > market for gearing up to do something of this nature. > > What we ended up discussing is a 'not officially supported' development > version of Oracle downloadable from their website after filling in the > standard who, what, where, and why type of form with the typical > disclaimers, which I believe they already do for the other development > versions. This is really *GOOD* news! Thanks for the work guys! -- Jonathan Chen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead." -- RFC 1925 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 15:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B6816A4CE; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mooseriver.com (h-66-166-146-73.SNVACAID.covad.net [66.166.146.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21E843D72; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id 9DA7D1702F; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:53:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:53:22 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Lukas Ertl Message-ID: <20040115235322.GA58526@mooseriver.com> References: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> <20040115231458.N624@korben.in.tern> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040115231458.N624@korben.in.tern> Organization: Moose River, LLC User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i cc: advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Matt Olander Subject: Re: Oracle Meeting Results X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:53:24 -0000 --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 11:17:22PM +0100, Lukas Ertl wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Matt Olander wrote: >=20 > > What we ended up discussing is a 'not officially supported' development > > version of Oracle downloadable from their website after filling in the > > standard who, what, where, and why type of form with the typical > > disclaimers, which I believe they already do for the other development > > versions. >=20 > This is _awesome_ news! >=20 > > In an attempt to placate his concerns about supporting a test download > > like this, we informed him that the FreeBSD community is used to figuri= ng > > out things on their own, and that we could possibly have a couple of DBA > > contacts within the community act as primary contacts for initial > > support and an oracle specific mailing list. >=20 > You may abuse me as you like :-) >=20 > (Yes, I'm really in need of a native Oracle - not necessarily the server, > but definitely the client.) I'd love to have a native Oracle server on FreeBSD but I'll settle for an Oracle client with all the libraries so that a JDBC connection to an Oracle server would work. Josef --=20 Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | Berkeley, Ca. --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFAByfyy8prLS1GYSERAmfuAJ4qpXI8nhAaU2aR7ZFd3ObakjgSrwCfWOHe 9C0QnvTM9wqXqcvMdTPKCOc= =SE/d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 16:52:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7148F16A4CF for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from flat.berklix.org (bim.bsn.com [194.221.32.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD24143D5C for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (pD9E4D8C3.dip.t-dialin.net [217.228.216.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by flat.berklix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G0qSv6077820; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:52:30 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by js.berklix.net (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G0qEGQ020583; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:52:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G0qDSd049163; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:52:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200401160052.i0G0qDSd049163@flip.jhs.private> To: "Dan Langille" In-Reply-To: Message from "Dan Langille" of "Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:39:56 EST." <4006C25C.15640.72BCE70@localhost> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:52:13 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCan brochure needed for Linux World 2004 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:52:31 -0000 Dan Langille wrote: > I also found an MS Word > template which had a brochure in it. I did substituations and > created .doc and .pdf files. The results are at: Shudder, I hope the MS world didnt bite while editing BSD stuff ;-) > http://www.freebsddiary.org/advocacy/ > > Anyone is free to take these and modify them for their own use. > Suggestions for improvement welcomed. I'm suprised you needed to do this ! I thought Canadians had grabbed a copy of ours last year from http://berklix.org/bim/leaflet/ & customised their own from that. I certainly thought Canada had its own BSD leaflet for a year now, though don't ask me who did it ! Our BIM leaflet is in Tex, & bilingual, no hint of any MS used to produce it :-) for anyone who want to work with it (improving it, grabbing ideas or feedback, whatever, we have a mail list just for that: "bim-leaflet@" Subscribe via majordomo@berklix.org - Julian Stacey. Unix C & Net Services Consultant - Munich. http://berklix.com Mail me in Ascii plain text: Html + Mime is dumped as Spam. Schnupftabak probieren: Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Software patents ? vampires would approve ! http://berklix.com/patents/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 18:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596C016A4D1 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:10:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58EC943D66 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676193D32; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:10:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Julian H. Stacey" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:10:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <400701C6.6422.8238D5B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200401160052.i0G0qDSd049163@flip.jhs.private> References: Message from "Dan Langille" of "Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:39:56 EST." <4006C25C.15640.72BCE70@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCan brochure needed for Linux World 2004 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:10:36 -0000 On 16 Jan 2004 at 1:52, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Dan Langille wrote: > > > I also found an MS Word > > template which had a brochure in it. I did substituations and > > created .doc and .pdf files. The results are at: > > Shudder, I hope the MS world didnt bite while editing BSD stuff ;-) > > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/advocacy/ > > > > Anyone is free to take these and modify them for their own use. > > Suggestions for improvement welcomed. > > I'm suprised you needed to do this ! > I thought Canadians had grabbed a copy of ours last year from > http://berklix.org/bim/leaflet/ > & customised their own from that. I certainly thought Canada had its own > BSD leaflet for a year now, though don't ask me who did it ! That URL says I created it... ;) But I don't take credit. I was one of the organizors. Please note: the leaflet I created isn't for BSD in general. It is for BSDCan specifically (http://www.bsdcan.org/). I'm trying to drum up attendance. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 19:34:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0D316A4CE; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from titan.kgt.co.jp (titan.kgt.co.jp [210.141.246.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7D343D2D; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from haro@kgt.co.jp) Received: from navgw.tt.kgt.co.jp (navgw.kgt.co.jp [210.141.246.71]) by titan.kgt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FB710247; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:34:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from kgt.co.jp (kubotaj4 [192.168.1.7]) by navgw.tt.kgt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1360A47712; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:34:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost [192.168.15.205] by kgt.co.jp with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.04) id ABCC32A0044; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:34:36 +0900 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:34:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20040116.123440.74756860.haro@kgt.co.jp> To: advocacy@freebsd.org From: Munehiro Matsuda In-Reply-To: <20040115235322.GA58526@mooseriver.com> References: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> <20040115231458.N624@korben.in.tern> <20040115235322.GA58526@mooseriver.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.2 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: matt@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oracle Meeting Results X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:34:39 -0000 From: Josef Grosch Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:53:22 -0800 ::On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 11:17:22PM +0100, Lukas Ertl wrote: ::> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Matt Olander wrote: ::> ::> > What we ended up discussing is a 'not officially supported' development ::> > version of Oracle downloadable from their website after filling in the ::> > standard who, what, where, and why type of form with the typical ::> > disclaimers, which I believe they already do for the other development ::> > versions. ::> ::> This is _awesome_ news! ::> ::> > In an attempt to placate his concerns about supporting a test download ::> > like this, we informed him that the FreeBSD community is used to figuring ::> > out things on their own, and that we could possibly have a couple of DBA ::> > contacts within the community act as primary contacts for initial ::> > support and an oracle specific mailing list. ::> ::> You may abuse me as you like :-) ::> ::> (Yes, I'm really in need of a native Oracle - not necessarily the server, ::> but definitely the client.) :: ::I'd love to have a native Oracle server on FreeBSD but I'll settle for an ::Oracle client with all the libraries so that a JDBC connection to an Oracle ::server would work. Hi, Wow, this looks good. :-) I'd like to see the OCI library (Oracle Call Interface) ported, then I could port our client-apps running now on Linux/Solaris. Haro =------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _ _ Munehiro (haro) Matsuda -|- /_\ |_|_| Internet Solution Dept., Kubota Graphics Technologies Inc. /|\ |_| |_|_| 2-8-8 Shinjuku Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 160-0022, Japan Tel: +81-3-3225-0767 Fax: +81-3-3225-0740 Email: haro@kgt.co.jp From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 15 20:22:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398D716A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fulcrum.mig-29.net (dsl-200-78-45-46.prod-infinitum.com.mx [200.78.45.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E9843D1D for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:22:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mig@mig-29.net) Received: from fulcrum.mig-29.net (localhost.mig-29.net [127.0.0.1]) by fulcrum.mig-29.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i0G4KXGh000500; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:20:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mig@fulcrum.mig-29.net) Received: (from mig@localhost) by fulcrum.mig-29.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id i0G4KVu8000499; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:20:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mig) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:20:31 -0600 From: Manuel Rabade Garcia To: Daniela Message-ID: <20040116042031.GC396@fulcrum.mig-29.ent> References: <20040114124434.A71668@knight.ixsystems.net> <200401151954.48532.dgw@liwest.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200401151954.48532.dgw@liwest.at> X-GPG-Key: http://mig-29.net/mig.gpg X-GPG-Fingerprint: D2E5 76E1 CE2D 8783 545D 1F41 399B 5765 AA33 25C0 X-URL: http://mig-29.net/ X-MOBILE: (+52 55) 13 99 27 87 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Logo on black background? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:22:10 -0000 Daniela, who happens to be smarter than you, thinks: > On Wednesday 14 January 2004 20:44, Matt Olander wrote: > > hey gang, > > > > I'm working on the presentation for Oracle. Does anybody have > > a FreeBSD logo that would go on a black background well? Sure, I could > > just to the pres with a white background, but it looks tres cool on > > black ;) > > I'd say, take the outlines of the BSD daemon and give it a chrome look. > I could eventually do this in Gimp if there's no such one ready. > If you do it ¿Can you share it please? :) Thanks a lot :) -- Leela: Hey, you know what might be a hoot? Professor: No. Why would I know that? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 00:57:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC9716A4CE; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk (postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 927F243D66; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1AhPnA-0004XR-00; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:57:24 +0000 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 16 Jan 04 08:57:25 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 16 Jan 04 08:57:24 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 16 Jan 04 08:57:23 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Matt Olander'" , Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:57:23 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c3dc0e$c1b17030$6f01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20040115135949.F81664@knight.ixsystems.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: RE: Oracle Meeting Results X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:57:28 -0000 Matt wrote: > Of course, the Oracle marketing engine is concerned if there > is a viable > market for gearing up to do something of this nature. I think we're seeing a steady migration to FreeBSD from Linux, which in turn is seeing a steady migration from Solaris, which in turn is picking up the SCO/AIX/HP-UX strays, so strategically it makes sense. > In an attempt to placate his concerns about supporting a test download > like this, we informed him that the FreeBSD community is used > to figuring > out things on their own, and that we could possibly have a > couple of DBA > contacts within the community act as primary contacts for initial > support and an oracle specific mailing list. I'm happy to help out in that regard, and I work for a University in the UK which has an Oracle site license and my department assists tech companies in the region, and so I might be able to offer some real-world support as well. I'm relatively new to Oracle, but am looking forward to getting my hands on the developer's edition and perhaps rolling out a real infrastructure. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 01:16:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD40D16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from flat.berklix.org (bim.bsn.com [194.221.32.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0246C43D6D for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:16:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (pD950E5F1.dip.t-dialin.net [217.80.229.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by flat.berklix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G9GGv6078864; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:16:21 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by js.berklix.net (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G95UGQ022072; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:05:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@tower.berklix.net) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0G95TSd051341; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:05:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200401160905.i0G95TSd051341@flip.jhs.private> To: "Dan Langille" In-Reply-To: Message from "Dan Langille" of "Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:10:30 EST." <400701C6.6422.8238D5B@localhost> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:05:29 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCan brochure needed for Linux World 2004 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:16:40 -0000 > Please note: the leaflet I created isn't for BSD in general. Ah, OK, thanks. > It is for BSDCan specifically (http://www.bsdcan.org/). > I'm trying to drum up attendance. Good Luck. Welcome to use & modify ours too later if you want. - Julian Stacey. Unix C & Net Services Consultant - Munich. http://berklix.com Mail me in Ascii plain text: Html + Mime is dumped as Spam. Schnupftabak probieren: Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Software patents ? vampires would approve ! http://berklix.com/patents/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 15:42:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B2616A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EC443D4C for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:42:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (82.48.219.76) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3FE0347C005317EE for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:42:16 +0100 Message-ID: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:42:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: this is mainly for D. Johnson and for the 'step-style' lovers X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:42:33 -0000 David. Your private address didn't work in the last hours. For all of us: David Johnson is building a 'step-style' for KDE 3.x, which will be an universal standard for all of our graphical environments. It will be useful for tuning all of the KDE stuff for people who likes Windowmaker's control centre, or the Login.app. I hope GTK adepted will do the same for GTK 2.x, like they did for GTK 1.x. For D. O' Dell: please forgive me for wasting this space for non-orthodox matters about 'advocacy'. Please, reply to this only private. Cheers VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 16:24:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C9E16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep18-int.chello.nl (amsfep18-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD4043D4C for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([62.163.150.222]) by amsfep18-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with ESMTP id <20040117002427.TDOH9561.amsfep18-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:24:27 +0100 Message-ID: <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:23:23 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ".VWV." References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> In-Reply-To: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:24:33 -0000 > For D. O' Dell: please forgive me for wasting this space for non-orthodox > matters about 'advocacy'. > Indeed. You're forgiven -- this time ;). I catch enough shit about this when I post semi-unrelated topics ;). In more on-topic discussion, when Linux (indeed, users from other OSes) ask some of the ``major differences'' between Product X and FreeBSD, what are some of the answers you give other than the license and the fact that BSD is a complete system instead of just a kernel? I'm sure there are many original things out there that people have come across, either in their conversion process or while ``converting others'' -- I'm attempting to improve my arsenal as it were. Kind regards, Devon H. O'Dell From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 16:36:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BCE16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8508843D41 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:36:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0H0QDjL093229; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0H0QDVv093228; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:26:13 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: "Devon H. O'Dell" Message-ID: <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com>; from dodell@sitetronics.com on Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 01:23:23AM +0100 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:36:32 -0000 On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 01:23:23AM +0100, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > In more on-topic discussion, when Linux (indeed, users from other OSes) ask > some of the ``major differences'' between Product X and FreeBSD, what are some > of the answers you give other than the license and the fact that BSD is a > complete system instead of just a kernel? I'm sure there are many original > things out there that people have come across, either in their conversion > process or while ``converting others'' -- I'm attempting to improve my arsenal > as it were. good question. key points I always touch on are: ports collection ease of administration professional development cycle single point of contact (freebsd.org) comprehensive documentation high load capability source code maturity stability/reliability cheers, -matt -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 17:00:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F72916A4D3 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C873643D41 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 56355 invoked by uid 1001); 17 Jan 2004 00:01:54 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:01:54 +0100 From: Michal Pasternak To: Matt Olander Message-ID: <20040117000153.GA39482@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mail-Followup-To: Matt Olander , "Devon H. O'Dell" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:00:35 -0000 Matt Olander [Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 04:26:13PM -0800]: > good question. key points I always touch on are: > > ports collection ... Gentoo Linux ... pkgsrc ... propably some more build systems I haven't heard of. >From Gentoo Linux user's perspective, Portage build system will be better, than FreeBSD Ports, just because s/he will be able to rebuild whole system, not only 3rd-part apps using single interface. Other your points are very important, there aren't many opensource operating systems, which provide such things. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 17:43:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E559D16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A1C43D49 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:43:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i0H1XSjL093616; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i0H1XSoL093615; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:33:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matto) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:33:28 -0800 From: Matt Olander To: "Devon H. O'Dell" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040116173328.I91963@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> <20040117000153.GA39482@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040117000153.GA39482@pasternak.w.lub.pl>; from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl on Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 01:01:54AM +0100 Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:43:39 -0000 On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 01:01:54AM +0100, Michal Pasternak wrote: > ... Gentoo Linux > ... pkgsrc > ... propably some more build systems I haven't heard of. > > >From Gentoo Linux user's perspective, Portage build system will be better, > than FreeBSD Ports, just because s/he will be able to rebuild whole system, > not only 3rd-part apps using single interface. good point. I've never tried it myself, but I've heard it's fairly cool if you're going to use linux. they don't anywhere near 10,000 ports though do they? does it actually compile from source? cheers, -matt > Other your points are very important, there aren't many opensource operating > systems, which provide such things. yeah, let's come up with some more. -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 17:48:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8958A16A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao06.cox.net (lakemtao06.cox.net [68.1.17.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDEEF43D3F for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from vixen42 ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040117014829.CSPS24575.lakemtao06.cox.net@vixen42> for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:48:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:47:07 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040116194707.23f3076e@vixen42.> In-Reply-To: <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.8claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:48:32 -0000 On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:23:23 +0100 "Devon H. O'Dell" wrote: > > > For D. O' Dell: please forgive me for wasting this space for > > non-orthodox matters about 'advocacy'. > > > > Indeed. You're forgiven -- this time ;). I catch enough shit about > this when I post semi-unrelated topics ;). > > In more on-topic discussion, when Linux (indeed, users from other > OSes) ask some of the ``major differences'' between Product X and > FreeBSD, what are some of the answers you give other than the > license and the fact that BSD is a complete system instead of just a > kernel? I'm sure there are many original things out there that > people have come across, either in their conversion process or while > ``converting others'' -- I'm attempting to improve my arsenal as it > were. What do I have to do with this? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 16 18:02:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3437416A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DD1243D45 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:02:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 97768 invoked by uid 1001); 17 Jan 2004 01:02:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:02:56 +0100 From: Michal Pasternak To: Matt Olander Message-ID: <20040117010256.GA90248@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mail-Followup-To: Matt Olander , "Devon H. O'Dell" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> <20040117000153.GA39482@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <20040116173328.I91963@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040116173328.I91963@knight.ixsystems.net> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 02:02:14 -0000 Matt Olander [Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 05:33:28PM -0800]: > good point. I've never tried it myself, but I've heard it's fairly cool > if you're going to use linux. they don't anywhere near 10,000 ports > though do they? I don't think so. Also, Portage is quite new technology (I am not saying it is immature, but well... everything needs to be throughly tested, doesn't it? :) Anyway, the point of my e-mail was, that as some more operating systems use Ports-like build systems, advocating FreeBSD using only this single argument misses the point. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 11:30:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC5516A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:30:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.netmaniacs.org (ns1.netmaniacs.org [212.61.66.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3099F43D49 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Received: from pandora.intra.schim.net (e164153.upc-e.chello.nl [213.93.164.153]) by www.netmaniacs.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i0HJTwRX071221 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:29:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Received: from phooka.intra.schim.net (phooka.intra.schim.net [192.168.0.4]) i0HJTvE8001221 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:29:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joao@bowtie.nl) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:29:44 +0100 From: Joao Schim To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040117202944.27da97d0.joao@bowtie.nl> In-Reply-To: <20040117000153.GA39482@pasternak.w.lub.pl> References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> <20040117000153.GA39482@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Organization: BowTie Technology BV X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:30:57 -0000 The big difference i noticed between the Gentoo portage system and FreeBSD's ports is that portage is geared towards bleeding edge while freebsd ports has a stability-first notion. atleast freebsd ports never screwed up my disks by installing a fsked fdisk port. :( kind regards, Joao Schim On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:01:54 +0100 Michal Pasternak wrote: > Matt Olander [Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 04:26:13PM -0800]: > > good question. key points I always touch on are: > > > > ports collection > > ... Gentoo Linux > ... pkgsrc > ... propably some more build systems I haven't heard of. > > >From Gentoo Linux user's perspective, Portage build system will be better, > than FreeBSD Ports, just because s/he will be able to rebuild whole system, > not only 3rd-part apps using single interface. > > Other your points are very important, there aren't many opensource operating > systems, which provide such things. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 17 17:42:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD6616A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte244.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 851DF43D3F for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:42:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from question+advocacy@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8B79028423; Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:42:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 17:42:15 -0800 From: Linh Pham To: Matt Olander Message-ID: <20040118014215.GA60548@q.internal.closedsrc.org> References: <008001c3dc8a$624914a0$60d0fea9@workstation> <4008807B.5090105@sitetronics.com> <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040116162613.G91963@knight.ixsystems.net> Organization: closedsrc.org Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Key: http://closedsrc.org/~question/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reply to V. Velox & questions about ``evangelism'' X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:42:34 -0000 --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2004-01-16 16:26 -0800, Matt Olander wrote: # good question. key points I always touch on are: #=20 # ports collection # ease of administration # professional development cycle # single point of contact (freebsd.org) # comprehensive documentation # high load capability # source code maturity # stability/reliability The other key points that I like to mention about FreeBSD include: Standardized file system and directory hierarchy (fairly) common configuration file locations across installs when compared to the numerous Linux distributions. In almost all cases (when applications and services are installed via Ports or packages), configuration files and file locations are the same across all installs. No more trying to find out where Apache configs are located between Linux distributions... ditto for OpenSSH, dhclient, BIND, and not to mention, various MTAs. I guess it can be folded into ease of administration... :) --=20 Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFACeR3whofDeWkDMIRAuStAJ4rmVZYXiUkGbuAlZ399dsqww8P/wCgoEo5 /5soTzEwUHG/AP4ue3CUJ0s= =p3Lm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk--