From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 02:33:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EDE16A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:33:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web50305.mail.yahoo.com (web50305.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 68CF243D41 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:33:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from murcielako@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 12847 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Dec 2004 02:33:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=XwKnli5OoP60XhBXkVGgzoWJjfEfizu1mHwbb2GnUOpH8miQqhmt91xLGaZFQf6mDzd7KcBVOUOXTB8JGirMRtSIm8fB4elmuedv8/W17dcazmE/XRcS+j2sib5rnGnYrqr2/aBMbCyHa8gc+j8f1a0Tdz5W/+T0xEXqUcAyFhY= ; Message-ID: <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.116.131.252] by web50305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:33:06 CST Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:33:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Jorge Mario G." To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:33:08 -0000 --- Kris Kennaway escribió: > On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 05:34:05PM -0600, Jorge > Mario G. wrote: > > > so the BSD apps are out there and ready to use. > > THOSE APPS WORK > > Not in general, i.e. there are often significant > missing features. > FreeBSD people tend to not be so willing to > sacrifice functionality > for ideology. > > Kris > yes I agree some might be missing functionality, but how are the other projects getting over it? also if we could make that list of what needs to be deGPL'd (and what features are missing those BSDed apps) more efforts could be canalized that way Jorge Mario _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias. Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 02:43:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B4116A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:43:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00BB843D1F for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:43:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9DE82511D7; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:43:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:43:39 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Jorge Mario G." Message-ID: <20041219024339.GA94875@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="J/dobhs11T7y2rNN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:43:41 -0000 --J/dobhs11T7y2rNN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 08:33:06PM -0600, Jorge Mario G. wrote: > --- Kris Kennaway escribi?:=20 > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 05:34:05PM -0600, Jorge > > Mario G. wrote: > >=20 > > > so the BSD apps are out there and ready to use. > > > THOSE APPS WORK > >=20 > > Not in general, i.e. there are often significant > > missing features. > > FreeBSD people tend to not be so willing to > > sacrifice functionality > > for ideology. > >=20 > > Kris > >=20 > yes I agree some might be missing functionality, but > how are the other projects getting over it? I guess they're happy with it, or at least the people running the project are happy with it. Kris --J/dobhs11T7y2rNN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBxOrbWry0BWjoQKURArlhAKCU7dZIncctotYXabp0Eq7XhDJACQCg35VH 8A2E2H+e3UnwowcYicY6TiY= =y/UK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --J/dobhs11T7y2rNN-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 03:45:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68BDE16A4CF for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 03:45:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from S4.cableone.net (smtp4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2232243D31 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 03:45:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from v.velox@vvelox.net) Received: from fennec.24-119-122-191.cpe.cableone.net (unverified [24.119.123.89]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 4585343 for multiple; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:52:46 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:45:12 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: "Jorge Mario G." Message-ID: <20041218194512.520e8349@fennec.24-119-122-191.cpe.cableone.net> In-Reply-To: <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 03:45:13 -0000 On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:33:06 -0600 (CST) "Jorge Mario G." wrote: > --- Kris Kennaway escribi=F3:=20 > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 05:34:05PM -0600, Jorge > > Mario G. wrote: > >=20 > > > so the BSD apps are out there and ready to use. > > > THOSE APPS WORK > >=20 > > Not in general, i.e. there are often significant > > missing features. > > FreeBSD people tend to not be so willing to > > sacrifice functionality > > for ideology. > >=20 > > Kris > >=20 > yes I agree some might be missing functionality, but > how are the other projects getting over it? >=20 > also if we could make that list of what needs to be > deGPL'd (and what features are missing those BSDed > apps) more efforts could be canalized that way why make a list when it is all ready easy to find? cd /usr/src/gnu ls AFAIK that should like all GPL stuff. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 11:58:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DFA16A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:58:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9809343D3F for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:58:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 81F035313; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:58:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id CFD30530A; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:58:10 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 65D92B85E; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:58:00 +0100 (CET) To: "Jorge Mario G." References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:58:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> (Jorge Mario G.'s message of "Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:34:05 -0600 (CST)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.64 (2004-01-11) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.64 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:58:19 -0000 "Jorge Mario G." writes: > 1. checking the OpenBSD's grep i saw this: > Copyright (c) 1999 James Howard and Dag-Erling Co=EFdan Sm=F8rgrav. > isnt he FreeBSD's des? so OpenBSD is using "his" grep > but his team (freebsd) is not! It simply isn't good enough. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 13:45:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9EB16A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B896543D39 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBJDjqiH040464; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:45:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:32:05 +0100 To: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:56 -0000 At 11:16 PM +0000 2004-12-18, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > I suggest you read src/contrib/sendmail/LICENSE. Sendmail Inc. > changed the license a while back to support their business model, > and the result is not BSD-style any longer. Okay, well there are plenty of other alternatives, including postfix and exim. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 13:45:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE1A16A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3C943D39 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBJDjqiJ040464; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:45:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:34:30 +0100 To: "Jorge Mario G." From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:45:58 -0000 At 5:34 PM -0600 2004-12-18, Jorge Mario G. wrote: > 2. why not import OpenNTPD? it works too There are major problems with OpenNTPd. If you want a simple SNTP implementation then try "msntp" -- it is used in m0n0wall, a firewall solution based on FreeBSD. Otherwise, we already have the Reference Implementation that has been incorporated into FreeBSD. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 14:14:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1534616A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:14:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-in-08.arcor-online.net (mail-in-08.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C78343D2D for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:14:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-082-082-077-003.arcor-ip.net [82.82.77.3]) by mail-in-08.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF4D12A8B for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:14:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBJEE3LN095180 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:14:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id iBJEE2pV095179 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:14:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:14:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:14:06 -0000 Jorge Mario G. wrote: > I was about to send this same list > also there is a BSD awk You mean Brian Kernighan's awk. FreeBSD already uses that. (When talking about changing FreeBSD, please look at -CURRENT or at least 5.x, not 4.x.) > the OpenBSD dudes are working on OpenCVS That's still under construction and not in production use anywhere. > 2. why not import OpenNTPD? it works too OpenNTPD only supports a tiny subset of the features of Mills ntpd. While the idea behind OpenNTPD is to be good enough for the large majority of people, you can't just treat it as a replacement. It also doesn't deal well with local clock drift yet. (Yes, I think FreeBSD will eventually want to adopt OpenNTPD and return Mills ntpd to ports for those few time keeping maniacs who need it, but I'm not sure I want to advocate that at this point in time.) -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 19 18:18:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481AA16A4CE for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:18:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F8943D1D for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:18:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBJIIYHB050075; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:18:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:26:46 +0100 To: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:18:38 -0000 At 2:14 PM +0000 2004-12-19, Christian Weisgerber wrote: >> 2. why not import OpenNTPD? it works too > > OpenNTPD only supports a tiny subset of the features of Mills ntpd. Please note that Dr. Mills is just one of many people who work on the Reference Implementation, and that at this stage, his contributions have more to do with the deep algorithms and less to do with the day-to-day code changes. To be fair to the other people who work on this project, I would prefer the term Reference Implementation. > (Yes, I think FreeBSD will eventually want to adopt OpenNTPD and > return Mills ntpd to ports for those few time keeping maniacs who > need it, but I'm not sure I want to advocate that at this point in > time.) I look forward to the day when this option could potentially be seriously entertained. I think some good healthy competition would be good for everyone. However, I fear that this day is very far off, if it ever arrives. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 00:45:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B23716A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:45:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1067843D41 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:45:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from runaround.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24619; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:45:16 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20041219174447.062aa538@localhost> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:45:14 -0700 To: Kris Kennaway , Timothy Beyer From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20041218211341.GB6483@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218211341.GB6483@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:45:34 -0000 At 02:13 PM 12/18/2004, Kris Kennaway wrote: >Great, let us know when it's ready! Soeren and others would be very insulted, I suspect, if you claimed that it wasn't. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 00:47:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FF116A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:47:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFC143D4C for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:47:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from runaround.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24649; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:47:15 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20041219174621.062ae768@localhost> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:47:11 -0700 To: Kris Kennaway , "Jorge Mario G." From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:47:25 -0000 At 04:38 PM 12/18/2004, Kris Kennaway wrote: >Not in general, i.e. there are often significant missing features. >FreeBSD people tend to not be so willing to sacrifice functionality >for ideology. It's not ideology, Kris, it's the potential for legal liability and/or having one's work confiscated. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 00:48:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C16A16A4CF for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:48:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8448743D48 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:48:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from runaround.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24660; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:48:16 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20041219174736.062a2a80@localhost> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:48:14 -0700 To: "Jorge Mario G." , Kris Kennaway From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> <20041219023306.12845.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:48:25 -0000 At 07:33 PM 12/18/2004, Jorge Mario G. wrote: >also if we could make that list of what needs to be >deGPL'd (and what features are missing those BSDed >apps) more efforts could be canalized that way There's really not all that much that still needs to "come un-GNUed." The most critical part is the toolchain. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 01:16:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D7416A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:16:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26BA543D31 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:16:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 87F7051432; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:16:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:16:05 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Brett Glass Message-ID: <20041220011605.GA62279@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218211341.GB6483@xor.obsecurity.org> <6.2.0.14.2.20041219174447.062aa538@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gKMricLos+KVdGMg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20041219174447.062aa538@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: Timothy Beyer cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: crap@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:16:06 -0000 --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Dec 19, 2004 at 05:45:14PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:13 PM 12/18/2004, Kris Kennaway wrote: >=20 > >Great, let us know when it's ready! >=20 > Soeren and others would be very insulted, I suspect, if you > claimed that it wasn't. OK, so where *can* I download TenDRA for my amd64, sparc64 and ia64 machines (per the part of the message you chopped)? Kris --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBxifVWry0BWjoQKURAlKtAJ9N9jCT3VYOQyYJiSJw7NZA2FH+WwCg+xa7 /WL1CHMJ1wST0DEIs1C1EBg= =6wv4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gKMricLos+KVdGMg-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 04:29:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0AA16A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:29:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sentry.ucr.edu (sentry.ucr.edu [138.23.226.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF7343D2F for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:29:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from beyert@cs.ucr.edu) Received: from localhost (c-24-130-226-184.we.client2.attbi.com [24.130.226.184]) by sentry.ucr.edu (MOS 3.5.6-GR) with ESMTP id BRQ36274 (AUTH tbeye001); Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:28:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:30:41 -0800 From: Timothy Beyer To: "Jorge Mario G." Message-ID: <20041220043041.GE420@aeonserv.aeonnet> References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:29:00 -0000 On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 05:34:05PM -0600, Jorge Mario G. wrote: > the OpenBSD dudes are working on OpenCVS > What exactly distinguishes this as being better than Subversion? It already fulfills the "improved CVS" niche and is licensed under the apache license. Sure, it's not perfect, but I've used it for a couple projects and I like it much better than CVS already. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 06:51:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893E316A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:51:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E585443D1F for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:51:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from runaround.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28556; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:51:04 -0700 (MST) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20041219234853.05a16b08@localhost> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:51:05 -0700 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20041220011605.GA62279@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218211341.GB6483@xor.obsecurity.org> <6.2.0.14.2.20041219174447.062aa538@localhost> <20041220011605.GA62279@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: Timothy Beyer cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:51:10 -0000 As I understand it, they already support i386, SPARC, PPC, and M68K; don't know about amd64. (Could be an opportunity for you to contribute. ;-) As for Itanic: I'm not sure why anyone would waste time supporting it. It's a dead architecture. --Brett At 06:16 PM 12/19/2004, Kris Kennaway wrote: >On Sun, Dec 19, 2004 at 05:45:14PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 02:13 PM 12/18/2004, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> >> >Great, let us know when it's ready! >> >> Soeren and others would be very insulted, I suspect, if you >> claimed that it wasn't. > >OK, so where *can* I download TenDRA for my amd64, sparc64 and ia64 >machines (per the part of the message you chopped)? > >Kris From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 07:04:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3276816A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:04:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mxc.rambler.ru (mxc.rambler.ru [81.19.66.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13D543D3F for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:04:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from barsuku@rambler.ru) Received: from mailc.rambler.ru (mailc.rambler.ru [81.19.66.27]) by mxc.rambler.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03875CDE04 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:04:40 +0300 (MSK) Received: from barsuk (usr4-222-172.dial-up.kraft-s.ru [213.156.222.172]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailc.rambler.ru (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBK74aYl002263 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:04:38 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <003201c4e662$2d06f270$acde9cd5@barsuk> From: "Barsuk" To: References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com><20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet><20041218211341.GB6483@xor.obsecurity.org><6.2.0.14.2.20041219174447.062aa538@localhost> <20041220011605.GA62279@xor.obsecurity.org> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:04:32 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Auth-User: barsuku, whoson: (null) Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:04:42 -0000 Guys, I shall not understand that I such have done? Simply wanted to communicate, something has broken also I did not begin to repeat attempt. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 20 16:52:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0FA116A4CE for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:52:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9160043D6D for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:52:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Sigmascape1@cs.com) Received: from Sigmascape1@cs.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id n.1a4.2d9a9d28 (16111) for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.com (mow-m10.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.138]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-3eef41c7033a2df; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:52:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:52:10 -0500 From: Sigmascape1@cs.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1FEAEF47.3F3D1525.3F8EDD3A@cs.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 65.82.194.242 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: RE: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 91, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:52:19 -0000 I agree. Fairly minor points (apps) remain. MLF featherston.blogspot.com > >>also if we could make that list of what needs to be >>deGPL'd (and what features are missing those BSDed >>apps) more efforts could be canalized that way > >There's really not all that much that still needs to >"come un-GNUed." The most critical part is the toolchain. > >--Brett > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 23 21:36:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660C416A4CE for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:36:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.180]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BC8043D45 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:36:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from krinklyfig@spymac.com) Received: from unknown (HELO smogmonster.com) (jtinnin@pacbell.net@64.173.26.30 with login) by smtp801.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 21:36:06 -0000 From: Joshua Tinnin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:36:05 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 References: <20041223112731.GA32750@ninja.terrabionic.com> <49467.63.231.157.250.1103805658.squirrel@63.231.157.250> In-Reply-To: <49467.63.231.157.250.1103805658.squirrel@63.231.157.250> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200412231336.06402.krinklyfig@spymac.com> cc: Ryan Sommers cc: jsha cc: freebsd-chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:36:07 -0000 CCing this to chat and removing www, arch and questions, because my response isn't much more than that ... On Thursday 23 December 2004 04:40 am, "Ryan Sommers" wrote: > Going to reply to the whole thread so far. > > jsha said: > > 1. Not only is the logo misleading (associating evil) but it also > > looks like something 10-year-olds could produce in Paint Shop Pro > > ten years > > Although I don't like the tone of the other replies, I agree with > their sentiment, beasty is as much a part of FreeBSD as the family > dog is a part of the family. Speaking of which, I remember a CD package of FreeBSD that had a photo of a fire hydrant on the cover. Think it was 4.10, but can't find it in a search. Personally, I think it looks kinda cool, sort of like the packaging on a game rather than an OS, and it does have sort of a ... kitchy feel, I guess (maybe that wasn't intended), but the subject of the photo doesn't make a whole lot of sense ... or maybe just to me. I've always wondered about that. Anyone know the significance, in case I'm missing something? - jt From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 24 00:09:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B44216A4CE for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:09:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6822643D39 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:09:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flowers@users.sourceforge.net) Received: from pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.181]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I9700HE29R1J190@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.150]) by pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I9700KRB9R11T00@pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from procyon.nekulturny.org (S0106000c41b2b9a3.cg.shawcable.net [68.144.45.143]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I970008U9R1X2@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:09:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:09:00 -0700 From: Danny MacMillan In-reply-to: <200412231732.12666.jaymo@cromagnon.cullmail.com> To: Jay Moore Message-id: <20041224000900.GA725@procyon.nekulturny.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline References: <200412231732.12666.jaymo@cromagnon.cullmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Foundation X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:09:26 -0000 On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 05:32:12PM -0600, Jay Moore wrote: > > ... > > I think you are as full of shit as a Christmas goose, Ted. You know what - Remind me not to come to your house for Christmas dinner. :) -- Danny From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 24 03:09:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A5216A4CF for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:09:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795B243D5A for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:09:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from taosecurity@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id j1so209344rnf for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:09:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cHiu1BNkIOVDWf87sJm6YaUyp6chuaED++BtLEGjHZX43XBB+7DbycMv1Cg3jbEK7Lx3wWoRmW+c1Q8nSAqmyWteidO9S6CavmyKFCDoKD7V1nXT04KOPXkDSpcsqH6GOiicF3oSWOqmWG6906B0bOJciGoug6uYQZ1wm/ubFvI= Received: by 10.38.97.9 with SMTP id u9mr365391rnb; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:09:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.209.11 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:09:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <120ef05304122319092bbc7563@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:09:58 -0500 From: Richard Bejtlich To: johann@terrabionic.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Richard Bejtlich List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:10:00 -0000 jsha wrote: > I am writing this e-mail hoping that someone will share my thoughts > on how the world's best operating system should represent its attributes > and users to the rest of the world. Thank you for showing some initiative in this area. I would humbly suggest that you pick your battles and concentrate on one item at a time. I recommend the FreeBSD logo, simply because FreeBSD_has no logo_. FreeBSD has a mascot, the Beastie daemon. I wrote about this in my blog when NetBSD's new logo was announced. [0] I would also suggest you ask for feedback from the community at every step of your process, preferably in a forum like freebsd-chat or freebsd-advocacy. Sincerely, Richard http://www.taosecurity.com [0] http://taosecurity.blogspot.com/2004/10/thoughts-on-netbsds-new-logo-in-other.html