From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 15 18:53:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C5516A4CE; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:53:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from minerva.int.gov.br (nat.int.gov.br [200.20.196.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01CC43D41; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:53:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: from [10.0.8.17] (dinf-02 [10.0.8.17]) by minerva.int.gov.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705F2BE5A9; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:53:09 -0200 (BRDT) Message-ID: <41C08815.3070003@jonny.eng.br> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:53:09 -0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Carlos_Mendes_Lu=EDs?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8a6) Gecko/20041214 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremie Le Hen References: <20041207231019.GL79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <20041208082000.GP79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <41B730B5.5040100@jonny.eng.br> <20041208224605.GU79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <41B860DA.5080309@jonny.eng.br> <20041211123553.GM79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> In-Reply-To: <20041211123553.GM79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: jdp@FreeBSD.org cc: mux@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvsup-mirror rewrite X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:53:12 -0000 Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 12:27:38PM -0200, João Carlos Mendes Luís wrote: >>[...] > > Well, I won't be deeply convinced that using ${PREFIX}/${PORTNAME} as > installation target it the cleanest thing to do while the core team > won't direct us to do so. In fact, I think your arguments are not so > bad and I'm going to adopt your point of view for a first try in the > code rewrite (anyway changing installation location is not so hard), > even if it's totally breaking hier(7) IMHO. > > But for now, I'm quite harassed that both hierarchies are used in the > same time ; I think this is going to be a mess if port maintainers > are able either to spread the port files accross the standard hierarchy > (hier(7)) or to simply put them all in ${PREFIX}/${PORTNAME} depending > on their own policy without further control. Again, my own view on the subject: - I do agree that most packages should follow hier(7), or we may get into a mess like the one created by Solaris /opt scheme. This is the most important point in my view, and the probably he main reason for hier(7) existence and for core team resistence. - I do not have a hard opinion on where should be the default ${PREFIX}: should it be /usr/local, as in FreeBSD, or simply /usr as in linux? I've been using Unix since AT&T Unix Version 7 on PDP11/70, and /usr/local has grown as a standard for *local* files, not system files. But are ports/packages local or system files? In this sense, is hier(7) already broken? - I do not want to change every user PATH ech time a new package is installed, so this is a great reason to follow hier(7). - On the other hand, the packages I like to keep out of hier(7) are those which are not for direct end user (or administrator user) to use, or which are reasonably complex to mix with other system files. If I had to genericly classify which ones to put, I would say that the following classes are subject to this separation: - Packages that may have simultaneous versions installed, and the user should have the choice to select: java, mozilla, perl, gcc, etc. - Packages that are for sole use by daemons and that may have large data or logs files and hierachies: apache, squid, postgres, etc. - Packages that are for sole use by daemons and although data and log files are not really big, they fit better together, as a small group of related files: nut, cvsup-mirror, arpwatch, etc. In any class some common files (like wrappers) could be in the default hier(7) distribution. Note that some of the packages referred above already break hier(7) in the default instalation. Some others do not, but I do break it in some of my personal installations. Note: This discussion is probably already very far from the original. A good point about it is that the hier(7) documentation could be updated from info gathered here to allow such breakages, explain the reasons and guide future porting. From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 15 19:20:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A376816A4CE; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:20:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6852943D41; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:20:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 812D1511AE; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:20:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:20:39 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Jo?o Carlos Mendes Lu?s Message-ID: <20041215192039.GB67103@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041207231019.GL79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <20041208082000.GP79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <41B730B5.5040100@jonny.eng.br> <20041208224605.GU79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <41B860DA.5080309@jonny.eng.br> <20041211123553.GM79919@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> <41C08815.3070003@jonny.eng.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="v9Ux+11Zm5mwPlX6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41C08815.3070003@jonny.eng.br> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: jdp@FreeBSD.org cc: mux@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvsup-mirror rewrite X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:20:40 -0000 --v9Ux+11Zm5mwPlX6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 04:53:09PM -0200, Jo?o Carlos Mendes Lu?s wrote: > - I do not have a hard opinion on where should be the default ${PREFIX}:= =20 > should it be /usr/local, as in FreeBSD, or simply /usr as in linux?=20 > I've been using Unix since AT&T Unix Version 7 on PDP11/70, and=20 > /usr/local has grown as a standard for *local* files, not system files.= =20 > But are ports/packages local or system files? In this sense, is=20 > hier(7) already broken? hier(7) is a FreeBSD standard and defines /usr/local as the place where FreeBSD packages live. Kris --v9Ux+11Zm5mwPlX6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBwI6HWry0BWjoQKURAhO9AJ9CoKIpw5FNEI9dqv9BHZrY41WbdgCgj/1v Sh/7PXHV5TmS1cMDqdFTv1Q= =+LJW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --v9Ux+11Zm5mwPlX6--