From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 21 14:17:39 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8CD16A4E2 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:17:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767FC43D53 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:17:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 30399 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2005 14:17:38 -0000 Received: from server.baldwin.cx ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 21 Mar 2005 14:17:37 -0000 Received: from slimer.baldwin.cx (slimer.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j2LEHTnK045762; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:17:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 08:15:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <4239D7AD.7050004@freebsd.org> <20050319225507.GH60989@fasolt.home.paeps.cx> In-Reply-To: <20050319225507.GH60989@fasolt.home.paeps.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200503210815.35493.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on server.baldwin.cx cc: Doug Barton cc: Robert Watson cc: Philip Paeps Subject: Re: Time to stop buildling named (and friends) by default in 6-current? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:17:40 -0000 On Saturday 19 March 2005 05:55 pm, Philip Paeps wrote: > On 2005-03-18 12:14:03 (+0000), Robert Watson wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Doug Barton wrote: > > > Scott Long wrote: > > > > John Baldwin wrote: > > > > > If we are going to do this, then why not just have users install > > > > > bind from ports and only install the client as part of the base > > > > > system? This is what we do with DHCP for example. Basically, if > > > > > it's going to be an optional component, I think it belongs in > > > > > ports, not the /usr/src. > > > > > > > > I agree here, though maybe the argument is moot now that Doug > > > > imported 9.3.1 last night? Not changing the status quo is ok too. > > > > > > Scott, did you see my response to John's post? I don't consider any of > > > this a done deal, but I had to get 9.3.1 in the tree asap in order to > > > try and make an MFC before 5.4 goes out. If we collectively decide to > > > strip named and friends out of the base, we can still do that. I know > > > how to remove files from the vendor branch now. :) > > > > Personally, I'm something of a fan of keeping the complete BIND in the > > base tree as is -- built by default, but not started at boot by default. > > It's well-maintained, historically "BSD", and probably widely used as > > such. > > I agree with this. I wasn't very fond of BIND 8, but I've changed my mind > after BIND 9 :-) It's a bit like sendmail -- very 'historically' BSD, and > just something one expects to 'be there' in a complete way. Like sendmail, > it's also very well maintained, which is an argument in favour of keeping > it the way it is. I agree in that I think BIND is good to have in the tree. I think it should just default to install everything. Folks who don't want certain things can always prune them out later. Having the server installed can be useful for being able to run a local caching nameserver at conferences when the hotel DNS is horrible (Boston ATC last year) even if you don't run it all the time. :) Also, the release process will be a lot simpler if it just installs everything by default. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 22 02:28:40 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB0516A4CE; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:28:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055C843D39; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:28:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dougb@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.1.114] (g35-062.icann.org[192.0.35.62]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20050322022839016006vcq8e>; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:28:39 +0000 Message-ID: <423F82D5.8000309@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:28:37 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <4239D7AD.7050004@freebsd.org> <20050319225507.GH60989@fasolt.home.paeps.cx> <200503210815.35493.jhb@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <200503210815.35493.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.1.1 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Philip Paeps cc: Robert Watson cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Time to stop buildling named (and friends) by default in 6-current? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:28:40 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: > I agree in that I think BIND is good to have in the tree. I think it should > just default to install everything. Folks who don't want certain things can > always prune them out later. Having the server installed can be useful for > being able to run a local caching nameserver at conferences when the hotel > DNS is horrible (Boston ATC last year) even if you don't run it all the > time. :) Also, the release process will be a lot simpler if it just installs > everything by default. As far as I can see, this comment from John (and the similar one from Robert) represent the consensus viewpoint. I will therefore drop this as an action item unless someone makes a very convincing case to change the current defaults. Thanks to everyone who offered their opinions and support on this topic. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 25 22:39:26 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476D116A4CE for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:39:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0148D43D54 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:39:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j2PMdPqX009283 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:39:25 -0800 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0/Submit) id j2PMdPYQ009282 for arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:39:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:39:25 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050325223925.GB1944@odin.ac.hmc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7iMSBzlTiPOCCT2k" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=8.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Subject: -I${CURDIR}/../../sys in src/*bin/Makefiles X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:39:26 -0000 --7iMSBzlTiPOCCT2k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In PR bin/79229 the submitter suggests that we add -I${CURDIR}/../../sys to CFLAGS in sbin/ifconfig/Makefile. I initially responded that we don't normally do that because buildworld handles picking up the latest headers, but after greping other Makefiles in sbin, I found that we do actually do that in a number of cases. It seems to me that we should really make up our mind which one we should do. I'm somewhat disinclined to add -I's to every utility, but that's not a strong opinion. What do others thing? -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --7iMSBzlTiPOCCT2k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCRJMYXY6L6fI4GtQRAo/kAKCv1nOdE4FaxmwriQbt8COmlwSgXgCcCj3V MtS54wRSWkywoNJARg03N8c= =bM0q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7iMSBzlTiPOCCT2k-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 25 23:53:25 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023E816A4DB for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:53:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2E543D2D for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:53:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j2PNqXMr042092; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:52:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:53:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20050325.165305.123846990.imp@bsdimp.com> To: brooks@one-eyed-alien.net From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20050325223925.GB1944@odin.ac.hmc.edu> References: <20050325223925.GB1944@odin.ac.hmc.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -I${CURDIR}/../../sys in src/*bin/Makefiles X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:53:25 -0000 In message: <20050325223925.GB1944@odin.ac.hmc.edu> Brooks Davis writes: : In PR bin/79229 the submitter suggests that we add -I${CURDIR}/../../sys : to CFLAGS in sbin/ifconfig/Makefile. I initially responded that we : don't normally do that because buildworld handles picking up the latest : headers, but after greping other Makefiles in sbin, I found that we : do actually do that in a number of cases. It seems to me that we : should really make up our mind which one we should do. I'm somewhat : disinclined to add -I's to every utility, but that's not a strong : opinion. What do others thing? I'm inclined to remove them, unless they are needed for bootstrapping... But I can't think of any reason why using -I..../sys would be necessary for that. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 26 04:08:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1CD16A4CE for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:08:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mailout2.pacific.net.au (mailout2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F3A43D31 for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:08:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailproxy1.pacific.net.au (mailproxy1.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.86])j2Q48SHn007199; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:08:28 +1100 Received: from katana.zip.com.au (katana.zip.com.au [61.8.7.246]) j2Q48NS5019873; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:08:25 +1100 Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:08:22 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@delplex.bde.org To: Brooks Davis In-Reply-To: <20050325223925.GB1944@odin.ac.hmc.edu> Message-ID: <20050326143417.J3715@delplex.bde.org> References: <20050325223925.GB1944@odin.ac.hmc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -I${CURDIR}/../../sys in src/*bin/Makefiles X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:08:30 -0000 On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, Brooks Davis wrote: > In PR bin/79229 the submitter suggests that we add -I${CURDIR}/../../sys > to CFLAGS in sbin/ifconfig/Makefile. I initially responded that we > don't normally do that because buildworld handles picking up the latest > headers, but after greping other Makefiles in sbin, I found that we > do actually do that in a number of cases. It seems to me that we > should really make up our mind which one we should do. I'm somewhat > disinclined to add -I's to every utility, but that's not a strong > opinion. What do others thing? This is a bug in the other Makefiles. It is not needed for full builds, and breaks some cases for building just one utility (ones where libraries are consistent with but not with ${CURDIR}/../../sys, and the utility sources are either old so that they match or haven't changed so much that they need new system headers). It is just a hack that "fixes" a different set of cases (ones where the utility sources match ${CURDIR}/../../sys, and the installed libraries are either new so that they match ${CURDIR}/../../sys but not (unlikely) or haven't change so much that they don't work with utilities compiled with new system headers). I thought that ru fixed it. Well, that was a long time ago and the bug seems to be mainly in newer Makefiles. ps/Makefile was fixed in rev.1.14 (2001/05/18). Bruce