From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 5 10:12:01 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018EE16A41F for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:12:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from evil@evildomain.org) Received: from evil.evildomain.org (adsl-69-105-97-101.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net [69.105.97.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24B043D45 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:12:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from evil@evildomain.org) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (Valect@[192.168.1.7]) by evil.evildomain.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85AC3wG005897 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from evil@evildomain.org) Message-ID: <431C19E9.8060209@evildomain.org> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 03:11:53 -0700 From: Aaron Holmes User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ssh pre-login message X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:12:01 -0000 I'm not entirely sure this is the proper place for this, but how can i get a pre-login message to show up before the "login as:" prompt on freebsd 5x From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 5 10:47:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3141616A41F for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:47:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jakob@grimstveit.no) Received: from smartmail.hjemme.no (mail.hjemme.no [62.97.193.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8895243D46 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:47:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jakob@grimstveit.no) Received: from localhost (79.62-97-240.bkkb.no [62.97.240.79]) by smartmail.hjemme.no (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Ae952025915; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:40:12 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:46:54 +0200 From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit To: Aaron Holmes Message-ID: <20050905124654.5e8f9fce@localhost> In-Reply-To: <431C19E9.8060209@evildomain.org> References: <431C19E9.8060209@evildomain.org> Organization: BitWise Computing X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.13 (GTK+ 2.6.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.4) X-Face: .4qx3fwC]Zs6i@H)n4+U7@:QPR,\(Q'z[`J-C"'v:; *cy8[}d]:x,*Z6I?e8m%a~O?f1',N \1g'^='~; B3WO"RqF(tt]5<1)z%.%hqWnyM|NG}|e[zDmf=j(F*p|Tq^C#{<_FvV|P/tB4aG81S)#i Ilo]%Gm<)uLyN List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:47:05 -0000 Aaron Holmes wrote on Mon, 05 Sep 2005 03:11: > I'm not entirely sure this is the proper place for this, but how can i=20 > get a pre-login message to show up before the "login as:" prompt on > freebsd 5x =46rom `man sshd_config`: Banner In some jurisdictions, sending a warning message before authen= ti- cation may be relevant for getting legal protection. The con- tents of the specified file are sent to the remote user before authentication is allowed. This option is only available for protocol version 2. By default, no banner is displayed. Just modify /etc/ssh/sshd_config with your favourite text-editor and restart the sshd service and you should be good to go. Using FreeBSD5.4-RELEASE-p6 myself. HTH. HAND. --=20 Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, , 48298152 Bes=F8k Newsergalleriet: "I am not an Economist. I am an honest man!" -- Paul McCracken From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 6 01:57:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E429316A41F for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:57:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joshua.lokken@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6296843D48 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:57:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joshua.lokken@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i7so998074wra for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:57:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=raT0/HDWzRDb4Db0qzA/BKw4duXmViF0UlAwnFvQskt/vD9nm7W1y78TQCp2lSXM9iVUZAkaESlUmKAWLsnqv6nMMMie04v5ng8Ey9nTe6uknyB4eelMY13i/QK15i7xT4Up6FWQetONjga9kojZT1vFy+iJ8RkGceN462owg7c= Received: by 10.54.56.55 with SMTP id e55mr4457544wra; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.11.50 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 20:57:46 -0500 From: Joshua Lokken To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4309FD3D.5030105@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050820212745.GA2998@night.db.net> <1515C667-4333-4147-BA3E-E04C2ED8382A@HiWAAY.net> <20050820231549.GB3909@night.db.net> <4309FD3D.5030105@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: BSDLinux OS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 01:57:48 -0000 OP, What's the specific gripe with the FreeBSD kernel, I wonder? Joshua On 8/22/05, Kevin Kinsey wrote:=20 >=20 > Gary W. Swearingen wrote: >=20 > >Perl is actually "dual licensed" and both are bad, IMO, but then > >I doubt that many will want to rewrite the thing anyway. > > > > >=20 > That last phrase produces a bit of a guffaw* ... thanks much! >=20 > KDK >=20 >=20 > *Oh, and I do agree, of course. :-) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 --=20 Joshua Lokken Open Source Advocate From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 6 16:28:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E90E16A41F for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:28:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@pilchuck.reedmedia.net) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0E743D5A for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:28:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@pilchuck.reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local (Exim 4.44) id 1ECgJV-00045M-Ux for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:28:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: Subject: new project, old license X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:28:54 -0000 The situation: a project is reusing a BSD style licensed code and is relicensing their changes with the same license. The original license had the "AS IS" disclaimer that specifically mentioned the project's name. Is it acceptable to rewrite to say ... IS PROVIDED BY THE foo AND bar PROJECTs "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS ... Or should it just include two copies of the copyright and license which are identical other than the project names? Or should it just keep the old project name in the "AS IS" disclaimer? Jeremy C. Reed Low cost press releases http://www.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 6 19:07:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01F816A41F for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:07:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) Received: from opusnet.com (mail.opusnet.com [209.210.200.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641E043D48 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:07:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) Received: from localhost.localhost [70.98.246.232] by opusnet.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A8E172CF0080; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:07:13 -0700 Received: from localhost.localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localhost (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86J95jU056107; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localhost (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j86J8rgS056104; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: From: garys@opusnet.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:08:53 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Jeremy C. Reed's message of "Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) XEmacs/21.4.17 (Jumbo Shrimp, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new project, old license X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:07:24 -0000 "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > The situation: a project is reusing a BSD style licensed code and is relicensing their changes with the same license. > > The original license had the "AS IS" disclaimer that specifically mentioned the project's name. > > Is it acceptable to rewrite to say ... IS PROVIDED BY THE foo AND bar PROJECTs "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS ... > > Or should it just include two copies of the copyright and license which are identical other than the project names? > > Or should it just keep the old project name in the "AS IS" disclaimer? Of course we can't give legal advice and must send people to qualified lawyers for that. But we may discuss our understanding of law. Keep in mind that if derivative B includes IP which is owned and licensed by A, then two parties share ownership of derivative B. 17-USC-103 says: The copyright in a compilation or derivative work extends only to the material contributed by the author of such work, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work, ... But since a BSD-style license says nothing about sub-licensing (allowing the derivative licensor to act as original licensor's agent, I suppose) and asks for retention of license text, I conclude that third parties can only use the derivative with the license (figuratively and literally) of both owners. (So, for example, when GPL users derive from BSD-licensed works and then say the work is GPL'd, they are wrong, to put it politely.) The requirements of the orginal BSD-style license are simple and don't include anything about including the licensor's name in derivative licenses or modifying the original's license. I'll not comment on the merits and risks of prospective violations of a BSD-style license. And, unfortunately, it can be impractical to get a custom license from some "projects". It would normally be "nice" to include some verbage somewhere (like in the derivative license) that goes beyond the original copyright notice in explaining who owns what, the more detailed the better. Another thing to keep in mind is that the ownership might still be shared even in derivative code written only by the second party, if it would be considered derivative. That's a murky subject, but sequels to blockbuster novels or movies provide a clear example of the principle. (One might ask if another license is needed from the first party to cover his ownership in new derivative code. I think that logic requires it, but courts probably wouldn't, saying its covered by the clear intent of the original badly-written license. Speaking of badly-written, note that the license doesn't even require its first paragraph to be retained in redistributions, though, of course, such omission wouldn't change the terms of the license, just the redistribution of it. :-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 6 20:49:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B2C16A41F for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:49:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961E343D49 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:49:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D6E61E1; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:49:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B226194; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:49:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CA71333DD4; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:49:12 +0200 (CEST) To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:49:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Jeremy C. Reed's message of "Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:28:49 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <86u0gx3os7.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00,UPPERCASE_25_50 X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -5.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on tim.des.no Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new project, old license X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:49:24 -0000 "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > The original license had the "AS IS" disclaimer that specifically > mentioned the project's name. > > Is it acceptable to rewrite to say ... IS PROVIDED BY THE foo AND bar > PROJECTs "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS ... The license normally says "BY THE FOO PROJECT AND ITS CONTRIBUTORS" or "BY ITS AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS" in which case I'd consider the author of the derivative work a contributor and leave it at that. IANAL. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 7 02:55:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81ABE16A41F for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 02:55:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) Received: from opusnet.com (mail.opusnet.com [209.210.200.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B83543D45 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 02:55:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) Received: from localhost.localhost [70.98.246.232] by opusnet.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.05) id A6B6906300B4; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:55:50 -0700 Received: from localhost.localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localhost (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j872vjxh093896; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:57:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localhost (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j872vbQ8093895; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garys@opusnet.com) To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: <86u0gx3os7.fsf@xps.des.no> From: garys@opusnet.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:57:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: <86u0gx3os7.fsf@xps.des.no> ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav's_message_of?= "Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:49:12 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) XEmacs/21.4.17 (Jumbo Shrimp, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new project, old license X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 02:55:55 -0000 des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) writes: > The license normally says "BY THE FOO PROJECT AND ITS CONTRIBUTORS" or > "BY ITS AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS" in which case I'd consider the author > of the derivative work a contributor and leave it at that. IANAL. I'm not commenting on the guts of that, just a side issue it prompted. IMO, writing only "By The Foo Project" is just an ill-advised way of writing "By contributors to the Foo Project", and both are of weak merit in forming legal contracts between the many IP owners and users, when many contributions have no associated evidence of authorship, let alone ownership. But it's worked in the past and so should work in the future (to borrow a phrase from NASA). And it's too late hard and too late to bother changing, so what's a project to do? Nothing. I DO wish that "contributors" or at least "project and contributors", was used more often than "project", which is all I remember seeing in FreeBSD. P.S. Recent patches of the Linux kernel are supposed to have a claim of authorship in the form of a "From:" line in the msg _body_; I expect that it will have many authors like "Joe Blow" instead of "Joe Blow's Employer", the author in law, and they'll eventually try to make it clear they want a claim of ownership instead. P.P.S. I recently had a fight with my conscience when I considered adding a copyright notice to one of my contributions, per the .gov website I had just read. It seemed to me that each significant (?) change should add a notice to the CVS for posterity, to be removed by the next one, probably keeping another one or more in the file with a more generic, though less righteous, notice. The individual notices would not be worth much as notices, but it would tend to encourage contributors to go on record as to who owns their contribution. (I lost my fight and went along to get along. :) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 9 16:07:02 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C66016A41F; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:07:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2008343D48; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:07:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j89FbYCI081058; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id j89FbYAD081057; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:37:34 -0700 From: Matt Olander To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050909083734.B81011@knight.ixsystems.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Sun Cobalt ported to FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:07:02 -0000 Hello, Here is the press release announcing the port of the Sun Cobalt to FreeBSD. I'd love to see this get as much exposure as possible so please foward it to any interested media outlets that you may know of ;-) http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/9/prweb282859.htm Cheers, -matt -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 10 06:25:14 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1255716A41F; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:25:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [216.201.118.142]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937B443D45; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:25:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.com [127.0.0.1]) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA9D76277; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:25:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from makeworld.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (makeworld.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 40854-03; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:25:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [216.201.118.138] (racerx.makeworld.com [216.201.118.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9CB626E; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:25:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43227C43.4040304@makeworld.com> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:25:07 -0500 From: Chris User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050904) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD - Advocacy , FreeBSD - Chat X-Enigmail-Version: 0.92.0.0 OpenPGP: id=C01BC363 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.3 (20050822) at makeworld.com - Isn't it ironic Cc: Subject: FreeBSD on IRC X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: racerx@makeworld.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:25:14 -0000 I just wanted to make a note - in the past I pushed that FreeBSD on IRC is a good place for users to seek help - Well, I have been proven wrong. While it's true there MAY be a few decent IRC channels that actually offer help with FreeBSD, I can now say that I was wrong to assume that the majority of FBSD channels on IRC offer any type of FBSD help or even care if they offer help. While I can't speak for EFNet, UnderNet and FreeNode - I can say for sure that there are certain channels on DALNet that are NOT help channels. While there are some decent users on IRC networks overall, it really comes down to the management. And in the end - it's the management that makes the channel. -- Best regards, Chris The light at the end of the tunnel can be a helluva nuisance, especially if your're using the tunnel as a darkroom. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 10 06:40:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4F216A420 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:40:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Users@the-grump.net) Received: from web.lomag.net (web.lomag.net [208.185.81.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 336A643D49 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:40:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Users@the-grump.net) Received: (qmail 66579 invoked by uid 89); 10 Sep 2005 06:40:31 -0000 Received: from Users@the-grump.net by web.lomag.net by uid 89 with qmail-scanner-1.20st (clamav: 0.85. spamassassin: 3.0.4. Clear:RC:1(68.209.210.60):. Processed in 0.048129 secs); 10 Sep 2005 06:40:31 -0000 Received: from adsl-068-209-210-060.sip.cha.bellsouth.net (HELO kurse) (68.209.210.60) by 0 with SMTP; 10 Sep 2005 06:40:31 -0000 From: "Jason" To: , "'FreeBSD - Advocacy'" , "'FreeBSD - Chat'" Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:40:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <43227C43.4040304@makeworld.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 thread-index: AcW10HiJ3aTnqGF1R9C7BGzZ71ONhAAAWa8A X-Qmail-Scanner-Message-ID: <112633443176766572@web.lomag.net> Message-Id: <20050910064031.336A643D49@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Cc: Subject: RE: FreeBSD on IRC X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:40:33 -0000 I have been IRC'ing now for around 10 years and find #FreeBSD on UnderNet, #FreeBSDhelp on EFNet and ##FreeBSD on freenode to be useful most times. However #FreeBSD on EFNet is a worthless channel full of venomous toads. Jason "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 2:25 AM To: FreeBSD - Advocacy; FreeBSD - Chat Subject: FreeBSD on IRC I just wanted to make a note - in the past I pushed that FreeBSD on IRC is a good place for users to seek help - Well, I have been proven wrong. While it's true there MAY be a few decent IRC channels that actually offer help with FreeBSD, I can now say that I was wrong to assume that the majority of FBSD channels on IRC offer any type of FBSD help or even care if they offer help. While I can't speak for EFNet, UnderNet and FreeNode - I can say for sure that there are certain channels on DALNet that are NOT help channels. While there are some decent users on IRC networks overall, it really comes down to the management. And in the end - it's the management that makes the channel. -- Best regards, Chris The light at the end of the tunnel can be a helluva nuisance, especially if your're using the tunnel as a darkroom. _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 10 08:38:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F60F16A41F; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:38:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com (shawmail.shawcable.com [64.59.128.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB46843D4C; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:38:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from bpd2mi3no.prod.shawcable.com (bpd2mi3no-qfe3.prod.shawcable.com [10.0.184.122]) by bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IML003G6EMZ6OA0@bpd2mo2no.prod.shawcable.com>; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:37:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.151] (S01060012174ce02d.vf.shawcable.net [70.68.25.109]) by bpd2mi3no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IML00K2VEMZUH00@bpd2mi3no.prod.shawcable.com>; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:37:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:37:51 -0700 From: Peter Kieser In-reply-to: <20050910064031.3351743D48@mx1.FreeBSD.org> To: Jason Message-id: <43229B5F.1090800@telus.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <20050910064031.3351743D48@mx1.FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) Cc: 'FreeBSD - Advocacy' , racerx@makeworld.com, 'FreeBSD - Chat' Subject: Re: FreeBSD on IRC X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:38:23 -0000 #freebsd on freenode is a worthless channel full of venomous channel operators who ban for grammar, and spelling mistakes. --Peter Jason wrote: >I have been IRC'ing now for around 10 years and find #FreeBSD on UnderNet, >#FreeBSDhelp on EFNet and ##FreeBSD on freenode to be useful most times. >However #FreeBSD on EFNet is a worthless channel full of venomous toads. > >Jason > >"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] >On Behalf Of Chris >Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 2:25 AM >To: FreeBSD - Advocacy; FreeBSD - Chat >Subject: FreeBSD on IRC > >I just wanted to make a note - in the past I pushed that FreeBSD on IRC >is a good place for users to seek help - Well, I have been proven wrong. > >While it's true there MAY be a few decent IRC channels that actually >offer help with FreeBSD, I can now say that I was wrong to assume that >the majority of FBSD channels on IRC offer any type of FBSD help or even >care if they offer help. > >While I can't speak for EFNet, UnderNet and FreeNode - I can say for >sure that there are certain channels on DALNet that are NOT help channels. > >While there are some decent users on IRC networks overall, it really >comes down to the management. And in the end - it's the management that >makes the channel. > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 10 10:57:59 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F45B16A41F for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:57:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from h.nieser@xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F8143D45 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:57:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from h.nieser@xs4all.nl) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (nieser.net [194.109.160.131]) by smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AAvsJH053226 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:57:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from h.nieser@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: <4322BC29.1050608@xs4all.nl> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:57:45 +0200 From: Hans Nieser User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <43227C43.4040304@makeworld.com> In-Reply-To: <43227C43.4040304@makeworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: FreeBSD on IRC X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:57:59 -0000 Chris wrote: > I just wanted to make a note - in the past I pushed that FreeBSD on IRC > is a good place for users to seek help - Well, I have been proven wrong. > > While it's true there MAY be a few decent IRC channels that actually > offer help with FreeBSD, I can now say that I was wrong to assume that > the majority of FBSD channels on IRC offer any type of FBSD help or even > care if they offer help. > > While I can't speak for EFNet, UnderNet and FreeNode - I can say for > sure that there are certain channels on DALNet that are NOT help channels. > > While there are some decent users on IRC networks overall, it really > comes down to the management. And in the end - it's the management that > makes the channel. I'm a new FreeBSD user coming pretty much straight from Windows (well, I have tinkered with linux a bit in the past), and I've been hanging out in #freebsd on FreeNode and QuakeNET and found them great places to get help. Despite the fact that some of my questions that I have asked in either channels could probably be answered by some googling or wading through manpages, I've only been told to RTFM one or twice ;)