From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 29 23:53:34 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F062A16A4CE; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:53:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2out.barnet.com.au (mail2out.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE4A43D31; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:53:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@mavetju.org) Received: by mail2out.barnet.com.au (Postfix, from userid 27) id 5D785707458; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:30 +1100 (EST) X-Viruscan-Id: <41FC21FA000102FB7E0E95@BarNet> Received: from mail2-auth.barnet.com.au (mail2.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) Authority" (verified OK)) by mail2.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0820D707458; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:30 +1100 (EST) Received: from k7.mavetju (edwin-3.int.barnet.com.au [10.10.12.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by mail2-auth.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA10707456; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:29 +1100 (EST) Received: by k7.mavetju (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5BD9C60E0; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:28 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:28 +1100 From: Edwin Groothuis To: Anton Berezin , Oliver Lehmann , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050129235328.GA1209@k7.mavetju> Mail-Followup-To: Edwin Groothuis , Anton Berezin , Oliver Lehmann , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <20050129211747.GD56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129211747.GD56998@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:53:34 -0000 On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:17:47PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:09:05PM +0100, Oliver Lehmann wrote: > > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > > > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > > > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Yes, hence the HEADS UP with a possibility to back off if people really > sure it is a bad idea. With the removal of perl from the base-system, they put something in place to make sure that the installed version from the ports collection would be a drop-in replacement and that no functionality would be removed. It all worked like a charm. Be pragmatic, a little bit pollution (a handfull of symlinks only, not even real files) gives you the flexibility to run whatever Perl version you want. Please don't break it now. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org edwin@mavetju.org | Weblog: http://weblog.barnet.com.au/edwin/ From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 00:40:11 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D49B16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:40:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from absinthe.tincture.us (adsl-67-113-224-217.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.113.224.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D48A43D41; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:40:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fred@tincture.us) Received: from [10.0.0.12] (great-northern.tincture.us [10.0.0.12] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by absinthe.tincture.us (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0U0e7vb011116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:40:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fred@tincture.us) In-Reply-To: <20050129205807.GA36637@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129205807.GA36637@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Condo Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:40:05 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:40:11 -0000 On Jan 29, 2005, at 12:58 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: >> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I >> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming >> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). >> This >> will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing >> pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of >> FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. >> >> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. >> >> CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. >> >> In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and >> removal >> will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in >> ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > > BTW, this goes beyond what I was asking for, which was just "remove > the dangling symlinks when the package is deinstalled [because they > are now nonfunctional]" It goes beyond that, and it should not. As others have stated, this breaks too much for very little benefit. It would be better to implement exactly what Kris suggested. From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 00:59:05 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B06916A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:59:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail07.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail07.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BD143D1D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:59:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-30-75-229.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.30.75.229]) j0U0x3uf000680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:59:03 +1100 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])j0U0x27l042365; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:59:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost)j0U0x2L9042364; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:59:02 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Anton Berezin , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050130005902.GJ32122@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:59:05 -0000 On Sat, 2005-Jan-29 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: >In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >#! /usr/local/bin/perl. I'd also like to object. The perl documentation has consistently stated that a symlink to /usr/bin/perl should be created so that scripts can use #!/usr/bin/perl. Removing this symlink will impact users as well as administrators and (IMHO) will adversely impact on the image of FreeBSD. -- Peter Jeremy From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 02:07:03 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D88016A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:07:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.47.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB9743D45; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:07:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6A407514DA; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:07:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:07:01 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Kirill Ponomarew Message-ID: <20050130020701.GA21266@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129205807.GA36637@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129205940.GB56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129210352.GA36709@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129210848.GC56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129211634.GB38050@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129212810.GA54501@voodoo.oberon.net> <20050129213407.GB52364@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129214140.GC54501@voodoo.oberon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129214140.GC54501@voodoo.oberon.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: perl@FreeBSD.org cc: Anton Berezin cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:07:03 -0000 --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:41:40PM +0100, Kirill Ponomarew wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 01:34:07PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > In this case we can miss what ports are actually broken, since not > > > everyone is running 6.x. > >=20 > > I expect there'll be enough obviously-broken ports to deal with for a > > while, and we can then evaluate progress once they're taken care of. >=20 > Yeah it makes sense, the problem is just to catch a bogus path in > installed files, so pointyhat is useless in this situation ;( grepping the latest 5.x build shows around 840 packages containing the string '#!/usr/bin/perl'. Kris --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB/EFEWry0BWjoQKURAoALAKC5nvG/MqkkSK9jzozgkcxuk7tgpQCferje Ea20GMalHHKe+i8zTAfLRSY= =z6Sf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy-- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 02:20:19 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57A816A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:20:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp4.server.rpi.edu (smtp4.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B9643D45; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:20:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp4.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j0U2KGB4024831; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:20:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050129210848.GC56998@heechee.tobez.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129205807.GA36637@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129205940.GB56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129210352.GA36709@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129210848.GC56998@heechee.tobez.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:20:16 -0500 To: Anton Berezin , Kris Kennaway From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:20:19 -0000 At 10:08 PM +0100 1/29/05, Anton Berezin wrote: >[ok, returning it to ports@ too, there might be some interest] > >On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 01:03:52PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:59:40PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: >> > > > > BTW, this goes beyond what I was asking for, which was just > > > > "remove the dangling symlinks when the package is deinstalled > > > > [because they are now nonfunctional]" > > > >> > True. Do you oppose to this change, and if yes, why? >> > > It seems pretty disruptive, especially to users of the -stable > > branch, and I'm not sure there's a good reason for doing it. > >The thing is, that the whole idea of touching /usr/bin at all made >sense when perl was in the base system and we needed a way to >"replace" it with a version from ports. > >Since we don't have it in the base for quite some time, there is >no good reason to continue cluttering /usr/bin with those symlinks. >So this needs to be done eventually, and this seemed as good time >as any to introduce this change. I think this is an extremely bad idea. At the very least, it is user-hostile to make a change like this in a -stable branch. 5.3 is now officially advertised as a stable branch, and it should never be open to extremely disruptive changes like this. Some unfortunate administrator is going to install this change, and it will brake all kinds of scripts. Scripts they didn't write. Scripts that they might not have access to. Scripts hidden away in cron jobs that people (including that administrator) have long forgotten about. Users will execute the administrators. Killing off FreeBSD admins is not going to help the long-term viability of FreeBSD. Looking at a recent installation of Redhat Linux, it has perl as /usr/bin/perl. MacOS 10 has perl in /usr/bin/perl. I *think* it is also true that Solaris has perl installed in /usr/bin/perl (or at least it does on solaris machines at RPI...). That means there are at least three large communities who will be writing scripts that assume perl is in /usr/bin/perl, and who will not be happy when those scripts have to be modified to work on FreeBSD. I see no advantage making the incompatible change that you propose. I understand the idea of it being "cleaner", but as a practical matter it is only going to cause a lot of problems, and it will solve nothing. I agree completely with the idea that the symlink should only exist when perl is actually installed on the system. But if perl is installed, then there is an awful lot of history which indicates we should have the symlink (or some similar place-marker) in /usr/bin/perl for it. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 02:24:52 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561C016A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:24:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F350B43D2D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:24:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j0U2OnwU022688; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:24:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129205807.GA36637@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129205940.GB56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129210352.GA36709@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050129210848.GC56998@heechee.tobez.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:24:48 -0500 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) cc: perl@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:24:52 -0000 At 9:20 PM -0500 1/29/05, Garance A Drosihn wrote: >Some unfortunate administrator is going to install this change, >and it will brake all kinds of scripts. By that I meant "it will cause the scripts to stop", of course. Not only that, but the change will also break those scripts... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 02:35:02 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D5716A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:35:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from n120.sc0.cp.net (fh022.dia.cp.net [64.97.160.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245EC43D1D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:35:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from doug@allensystemconsultants.com) Received: from xp-athlon.allensystemconsultants.com (198.92.156.222) by n120.sc0.cp.net (7.0.038) (authenticated as doug@allensystemconsultants.com) id 41F1C663000CFEC3; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:35:01 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050129202607.0447e3a8@mail.allensystemconsultants.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:35:03 -0600 To: perl@FreeBSD.org, stable@freebsd.org From: "Douglas G. Allen" In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:35:02 -0000 Anton, >Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I >plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming >upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This >will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing >pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of >FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > >In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >#! /usr/local/bin/perl. > >CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. While I agree that correct ports shouldn't be affected, I think that this will make a difference in how FreeBSD is looked at as a whole. I know that when I write stuff for other people in perl, it is presumed that perl is in /usr/bin, not /usr/local/bin because most of these people are running some Linux distribution. I also thought that is was requested to have perl in /usr/bin? >In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal >will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in >ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. I would rather have a couple of symlinks chased down and removed than have potentially hundreds (or thousands) of scripts needing to be tweaked upon installation of a new piece of software that is predominantly Linux oriented. I try to wrote my stuff to work on multiple platforms (FreeBSD. Linux, Windows) without major modification as a practical thing. This would make it more platform dependent for patches or tech support. I would prefer to NOT see this change implemented. Doug From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 02:36:23 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0051816A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:36:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8122243D41; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:36:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Cv4wn-00045i-00; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:36:21 +0100 Received: from [84.128.143.213] (helo=donor.laier.local) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Cv4wn-0007Id-00; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:36:21 +0100 From: Max Laier To: perl@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:36:08 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1391076.SvK2xSjx1I"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200501300336.18750.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:61c499deaeeba3ba5be80f48ecc83056 cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:36:23 -0000 --nextPart1391076.SvK2xSjx1I Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 29 January 2005 21:24, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I Please, "don't do that"! http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#DEFINE-POLA =2D-=20 /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News --nextPart1391076.SvK2xSjx1I Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBB/EgiXyyEoT62BG0RAjW/AJwONe/uwMxG3tMej/6F3q9uvhiewgCeKxbN lfEMcTPT42POMhDTDwzcVIM= =IWXN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1391076.SvK2xSjx1I-- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 02:40:00 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180A416A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:40:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (krusty.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.163.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624B643D2D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:39:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])7956E44234; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (krusty [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15380-04-9; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (p508EFF03.dip.t-dialin.net [80.142.255.3]) 8F84544232; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C799077883; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from merlin.emma.line.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (m2a2.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 29912-05; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id E8A56778AC; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:51 +0100 (CET) From: Matthias Andree To: Oliver Lehmann In-Reply-To: <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> (Oliver Lehmann's message of "Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:09:05 +0100") References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:39:51 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:40:00 -0000 Oliver Lehmann writes: > Anton Berezin wrote: > >> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? I'd say let the ports patch the right location at install time and if they break after upgrading both perl and the port, they deserve no better. -- Matthias Andree From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 03:08:42 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180B816A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:08:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A6443D2F for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:08:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ertr1013@student.uu.se) Received: by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id BDF1E37E73; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:08:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp4-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.180]) by av1-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD75237E45 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:08:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from falcon.midgard.homeip.net (h201n1fls24o1048.bredband.comhem.se [212.181.162.201]) by smtp4-2-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E067037E42 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:08:38 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 87796 invoked by uid 1001); 30 Jan 2005 03:08:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:08:37 +0100 From: Erik Trulsson To: Matthias Andree Message-ID: <20050130030837.GA87780@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: Matthias Andree , Oliver Lehmann , perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, tobez@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: Oliver Lehmann Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:08:42 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 03:39:51AM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Oliver Lehmann writes: > > > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > >> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > >> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > >> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > > Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into > /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed > $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? Then you would have nobody but yourself to blame. >From the Perl documentation: It may seem obvious to say, but Perl is useful only when users can easily find it. When possible, it's good for both /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl to be symlinks to the actual binary. If that can't be done, system administrators are strongly encouraged to put (symlinks to) perl and its accompanying utilities, such as perldoc, into a directory typically found along a user's PATH, or in another obvious and convenient place. In this documentation, #!/usr/bin/perl on the first line of the script will stand in for whatever method works on your system. > > I'd say let the ports patch the right location at install time and if > they break after upgrading both perl and the port, they deserve no better. And what about all the scripts that administrators and users write that are not part of any port? Scripts that were written according to the de-facto standard that having '#!/usr/bin/perl' on the first line of the script will work correctly. No, the proposed change is a bad idea that will create lots of problems for very little gain. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 03:18:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0AE16A4CF; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:18:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from a2.scoop.co.nz (aurora.scoop.co.nz [203.96.152.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B4143D45; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:18:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrew@scoop.co.nz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a2.scoop.co.nz (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0U3IOBC020887; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:18:25 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from andrew@scoop.co.nz) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:18:24 +1300 (NZDT) From: Andrew McNaughton To: Matthias Andree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050130160610.X9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (a2.scoop.co.nz [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:18:25 +1300 (NZDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/643/Sun Dec 26 11:47:31 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on a2.scoop.co.nz X-Virus-Status: Clean cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: Oliver Lehmann Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:18:30 -0000 On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Matthias Andree wrote: > Oliver Lehmann writes: > >> Anton Berezin wrote: >> >>> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >>> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >>> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. >> >> Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into > /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed > $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? > > I'd say let the ports patch the right location at install time and if > they break after upgrading both perl and the port, they deserve no better. Ports covers only a *very* small proportion of the perl scripts in use out there. There are for instance no end of CGI scripts and system automation scripts out there that are produced for in house use. Imagine what will be a fairly typical case: Some website owner who hired a programmer in the past to set stuff up suddenly finds their site is broken. They'll probably call their hosting provider first. The hosting provider might require all their affected customers to find someone who understands enough to fix this - which would add up to millions of dollars of expenditure worldwide if everyone took that approach. More likely, most hosting providers would put back in the symlinks that it is proposed to remove. They'll then have a 'non-standard' modification to maintain on their own systems, and this will probably be standard practice, not modifying all the scripts people want to put in. Seems like a lot of people wasting effort to me. Andrew McNaughton -- The United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example." - George Bush, 26 June 2003 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew McNaughton http://www.scoop.co.nz/ andrew@scoop.co.nz Mobile: +61 422 753 792 From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 03:35:18 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F47C16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:35:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from a2.scoop.co.nz (aurora.scoop.co.nz [203.96.152.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DADB443D4C; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:35:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrew@scoop.co.nz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a2.scoop.co.nz (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0U3ZGZF021279; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:35:17 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from andrew@scoop.co.nz) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:35:16 +1300 (NZDT) From: Andrew McNaughton To: perl@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> Message-ID: <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (a2.scoop.co.nz [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:35:17 +1300 (NZDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/643/Sun Dec 26 11:47:31 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on a2.scoop.co.nz X-Virus-Status: Clean cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:35:18 -0000 On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Oliver Lehmann wrote: >> Anton Berezin wrote: >>> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in >>> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to >>> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. >> >> Wouldn't that break most of the 3rd party scripts out in the world? > > Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: > > #! /usr/bin/env perl > > ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work fine. I commonly use this approach, but I run into some problems with flags. Probably a simple gotcha someone can help with. Eg the following useful constructs don't work: #!/usr/bin/env perl -p #!/usr/bin/env perl -T #!/usr/bin/env perl -w Andrew McNaughton -- The United States is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example." - George Bush, 26 June 2003 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew McNaughton http://www.scoop.co.nz/ andrew@scoop.co.nz Mobile: +61 422 753 792 From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 04:23:19 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 835F416A4D0 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:23:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from electra.nolink.net (electra.nolink.net [195.139.204.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F8643D31 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:23:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lerik@nolink.net) Received: (qmail 2464 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Jan 2005 04:23:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Jan 2005 04:23:10 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:23:10 +0100 (CET) From: Lars Erik Gullerud To: perl@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Message-ID: <20050130051620.L83472@electra.nolink.net> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:23:19 -0000 On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. No, in practical terms this does not mean a one-time sweep at all. It means we now have to manually create this symlink on all machines instead. There is simply no realistic way to change all scripts to use /usr/local/bin/perl (and keep finding/replacing this for all new scripts users may install - they usually don't come from the ports collection) - while this may be doable on a single user's local workstation, it is just not doable in places like an ISP environment, and no doubt many others. So then we'll be forced to create this symlink manually anyway, on all servers, probably for all eternity, and face the screaming users everytime someone forgets it on one. It also goes against what every other platform does with regards to perl, and it is IMHO a big POLA violation. So please - "don't do that". :( /leg From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 04:51:44 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FDF16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:51:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pi.codefab.com (pi.codefab.com [199.103.21.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DA043D1F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:51:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B59B5DE5; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from pi.codefab.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pi.codefab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52290-09; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:51:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pool-68-161-114-38.ny325.east.verizon.net [68.161.114.38]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D42A5DC6; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:51:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:51:36 -0500 From: Chuck Swiger Organization: The Courts of Chaos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew McNaughton References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at codefab.com cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:51:44 -0000 Andrew McNaughton wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote: [ ... ] >> Well-behaved 3rd party scripts ought to start Perl via: >> >> #! /usr/bin/env perl >> >> ...so long as /usr/local/bin is in the $PATH, they should still work >> fine. > > I commonly use this approach, but I run into some problems with flags. > Probably a simple gotcha someone can help with. > > Eg the following useful constructs don't work: > > #!/usr/bin/env perl -p > #!/usr/bin/env perl -T > #!/usr/bin/env perl -w See "man perlrun" for some additional suggestions (and caveats), as it gives examples for passing -p to perl when invoked via /usr/bin/env or /bin/sh. You might also try putting a "--" between the 'env' and the 'perl' to indicate the end of command-line option processing to env. It's possible that taint mode cannot be invoked this way (as that needs to be set very early on), though. There also seems to exist a PERL5OPT variable which could be set like so: #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl This should support -T, too, only it will zap any additional args specified afterwards (or so the docs say)... -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 05:01:15 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A21FF16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:01:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2out.barnet.com.au (mail2out.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0B043D45; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:01:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@mavetju.org) Received: by mail2out.barnet.com.au (Postfix, from userid 27) id 21F0D707458; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:01:13 +1100 (EST) X-Viruscan-Id: <41FC6A180000DFADE1EAF0@BarNet> Received: from mail2-auth.barnet.com.au (mail2.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) Authority" (verified OK)) by mail2.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C598707456; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:01:12 +1100 (EST) Received: from k7.mavetju (edwin-3.int.barnet.com.au [10.10.12.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by mail2-auth.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CD970744F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:01:11 +1100 (EST) Received: by k7.mavetju (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 88EA260E0; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:01:10 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:01:10 +1100 From: Edwin Groothuis To: Chuck Swiger Message-ID: <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> Mail-Followup-To: Edwin Groothuis , Chuck Swiger , Andrew McNaughton , perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: Andrew McNaughton cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:01:15 -0000 On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Andrew McNaughton wrote: > #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl "#!/usr/bin/perl -w" sounds much easier. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org edwin@mavetju.org | Weblog: http://weblog.barnet.com.au/edwin/ From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 05:51:40 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECDA016A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:51:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC6F43D1F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:51:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.254.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.254.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0U5t10F020367; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:55:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:51:37 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: perl@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:51:40 -0000 Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > > Please respect Reply-To. > Thank you, > > \Anton. I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid with stable branches. Scott From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 06:18:51 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8486316A4D2 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:18:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.195]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB50A43D45 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:18:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id f1so667553rne for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:18:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Mf/buKzrJ0IBH9yJktNtV0HmJ7ENI02XVAaDr7bceciUGiiaRckvFm45OLvGs9wmPK6QlQ0fA3LGCTaT/wzxynfz0ybyLuS7P+VWEwkQOiBMM2HLj6qaazFdnRubd+NLY7W/DnXbA3T0TbxR8d95XTVLscRAyPLqHAWx3BMaxx0= Received: by 10.38.125.70 with SMTP id x70mr139354rnc; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:18:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.39.1.22 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:18:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3aaaa3a05012922186657ed46@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:18:49 +0000 From: Chris To: Scott Long In-Reply-To: <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Chris List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:18:51 -0000 Changing this so it affects 5-STABLE is suicide it will annoy a lot of user's and draw people away from FreeBSD to other platforms, I dont see any benefit from doing this the symlinks have caused me no ill effect whatsoever Chris On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:51:37 -0700, Scott Long wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > > > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > > > > Please respect Reply-To. > > Thank you, > > > > \Anton. > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > with stable branches. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 09:50:22 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D77216A4CF; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:50:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obh.snafu.de (obh.snafu.de [213.73.92.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC4443D48; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:50:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ob@gruft.de) Received: from ob by obh.snafu.de with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1CvBig-000LYN-7O; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:50:14 +0100 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:50:14 +0100 From: Oliver Brandmueller To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050130095013.GA82144@e-Gitt.NET> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, Anton Berezin , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="DocE+STaALJfprDB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: Oliver Brandmueller cc: perl@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org cc: Anton Berezin Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:50:22 -0000 --DocE+STaALJfprDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. >=20 > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. >=20 > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. >=20 > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. At least for -STABLE I see a big impact. I see no useful gain in that step anyway; I would just have to create=20 the link on tens of machines by hand. If it turns out, that this will be the way to (which the discussion=20 doesn't suggest), I would like to see something like this: - Don't change the behaviour on -STABLE (4.x, 5.x), but make an OPTION available, that would turn on the "new" behaviour. - For -CURRENT (6.x and beyond), if the change comes, make an OPTION available, to turn on the "old" behaviour. Something like "make PERL_POLLUTES_BASE=3Dyes install clean" would just be= =20 fine. There are many good reasons, to have /usr/bin/perl available at=20 just that place. Be it good style or not, the reality ist, that a lot of=20 third party stuff depends on exactly that. - Oliver --=20 | Oliver Brandmueller | Offenbacher Str. 1 | Germany D-14197 Berlin | | Fon +49-172-3130856 | Fax +49-172-3145027 | WWW: http://the.addict.de/ | | Ich bin das Internet. Sowahr ich Gott helfe. | | Eine gewerbliche Nutzung aller enthaltenen Adressen ist nicht gestattet! | --DocE+STaALJfprDB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB/K3ViqtMdzjafykRArt/AJsH3ei2w+eKAVpCTM+MbTMoMGFtWQCeKcxT kjbJug+itdISOmjO+f2o0Es= =NaM0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --DocE+STaALJfprDB-- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:03:29 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E916E16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:03:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from buexe.b-5.de (buexe.b-5.de [80.148.32.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CC343D1D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:03:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lupe@lupe-christoph.de) Received: from antalya.lupe-christoph.de (antalya.lupe-christoph.de [172.17.0.9])j0UA3Q0L022044; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:03:27 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antalya.lupe-christoph.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA47134603; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:03:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from antalya.lupe-christoph.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (antalya [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 22159-03; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:03:16 +0100 (CET) Received: by antalya.lupe-christoph.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A94BC34601; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:03:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:03:16 +0100 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050130100316.GC8882@lupe-christoph.de> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i From: lupe@lupe-christoph.de (Lupe Christoph) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at lupe-christoph.de cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:03:30 -0000 On Saturday, 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), ... "don't do that", ever. Eben postponing this to the time 6.0 comes out does not change it. Any upgraded system will fail in interesting and mysterious ways. I see no benefit in not having a /usr/bin/perl, and I see many problems with it. Even when it does not affect my two insignificant ports, I'm against it. If you are still planning on going through with this, please take the idea to the perl5-porters list first. perl5-porters@perl.org My 2 Eurocents, Lupe Christoph -- | lupe@lupe-christoph.de | http://www.lupe-christoph.de/ | | Ask not what your computer can do for you | | ask what you can do for your computer. | From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:13:51 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5328416A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:13:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hermes.uci.kun.nl (hermes.uci.kun.nl [131.174.93.58]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5E643D31; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:13:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from xdamen@sci.kun.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (vhe-383505.sshn.net [195.169.208.89]) by hermes.uci.kun.nl (PMDF V6.2-X17 #30689) with ESMTP id <0IB400IXSKEAA0@hermes.uci.kun.nl>; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:13:24 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:14:52 +0100 From: Xander Damen In-reply-to: <20050130100316.GC8882@lupe-christoph.de> To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Message-id: <41FCB39C.5010000@sci.kun.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050130100316.GC8882@lupe-christoph.de> cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:13:51 -0000 Why would upgraded systems cause problems? I don't think the upgradesystem will delete any existing symlinks? Xander Lupe Christoph wrote: >On Saturday, 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > > >>Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), ... >> >> > >"don't do that", ever. > >Eben postponing this to the time 6.0 comes out does not change it. Any >upgraded system will fail in interesting and mysterious ways. > >I see no benefit in not having a /usr/bin/perl, and I see many problems >with it. Even when it does not affect my two insignificant ports, I'm >against it. > >If you are still planning on going through with this, please take the >idea to the perl5-porters list first. perl5-porters@perl.org > >My 2 Eurocents, >Lupe Christoph > > From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:31:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D7A16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:31:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pi.codefab.com (pi.codefab.com [199.103.21.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BDC43D46; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:31:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053DF5E7E; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from pi.codefab.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pi.codefab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 56212-07; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pool-68-161-114-38.ny325.east.verizon.net [68.161.114.38]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FD15DC3; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:31:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:31:21 -0500 From: Chuck Swiger Organization: The Courts of Chaos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edwin Groothuis References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> In-Reply-To: <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at codefab.com cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:31:31 -0000 Edwin Groothuis wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: >>Andrew McNaughton wrote: >>#!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl > > "#!/usr/bin/perl -w" sounds much easier. Sure, assuming there actually was a perl in /usr/bin. I would not choose to hardcode the path to perl when env is available to properly locate the interpreter for #!-based scripts via the $PATH. tobez@ is in the unenviable position of trying to support a language that was added and then removed from the base system. He can produce a port that respects $PREFIX by not changing anything outside of /usr/local, or one that provides backwards compatibility with Perl being part of the base system at the cost of creating extra symlinks and spamming /etc/make.conf. Since the decision to remove Perl from FreeBSD's base was not accompanied by universal recognition and acceptance that scripts should not hardcode a path to /usr/bin/perl, there exists a conflict which is not going to go away until either Perl gets added back to the base system, or the Perl scripts are fixed. I don't want to revisit a discussion of whether Perl should be part of base. I don't want the Perl port to change in a way that breaks existing scripts. I don't want perl scripts to assume that Perl is in /usr/bin, or /usr/local/bin, or any other specific place. I don't want to have perl symlinked between /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin. I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:44:44 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CE316A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:44:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.telix.ru (net.telix.ru [81.222.232.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED50A43D48; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:44:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lev@serebryakov.spb.ru) Received: from localhost (mail [81.222.232.5]) by mail.telix.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0CD51A3F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:45:11 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mail.telix.ru ([81.222.232.5]) by localhost (mail.telix.ru [81.222.232.5]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44747-01; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:45:11 +0300 (MSK) Received: from desktop.home.serebryakov.spb.ru (user-172.pool-2.telix.ru [81.222.218.172]) by mail.telix.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF6B51A3A; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:45:11 +0300 (MSK) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:44:56 +0300 From: Lev Serebryakov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.11.02) Organization: Cave of Black Lion X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1985053043.20050130134456@serebryakov.spb.ru> To: Anton Berezin In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at telix.ru cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Lev Serebryakov List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:44:44 -0000 Hello Anton, Saturday, January 29, 2005, 11:24:25 PM, you wrote: AB> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I AB> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming AB> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). AB> In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in AB> order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to AB> #! /usr/local/bin/perl. In all scripts of all my friends, who have hosting on my server & use perl scripts? NO, THANKS! -- Best regards, Lev mailto:lev@serebryakov.spb.ru From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:47:35 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C00D16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:47:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from alogis.com (firewall2.alogis.com [62.8.223.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB6443D31; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:47:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: from alogis.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alogis.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0UAlW9R031429; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:47:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: (from hk@localhost) by alogis.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j0UAlWVe031428; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:47:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hk) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:47:32 +0100 From: Holger Kipp To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:47:35 -0000 On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 10:51:37PM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > > >Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > >plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > >upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > >will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > >pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > >FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. [...] > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > with stable branches. It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the correct path. We had enough good arguments against this change already, so imho the correct thing to do is do just what Kris asked for: remove the _dangling_ symlinks. Regards, Holger Kipp From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:53:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E7D16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from voodoo.oberon.net (voodoo.oberon.net [212.118.165.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C43443D1F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from krion@voodoo.oberon.net) Received: from krion by voodoo.oberon.net with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1CvChn-000Njg-7Z; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:53:23 +0100 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:53:23 +0100 From: Kirill Ponomarew To: Holger Kipp Message-ID: <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> X-NCC-Regid: de.oberon X-NIC-HDL: KP869-RIPE cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:53:31 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:32AM +0100, Holger Kipp wrote: > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > with stable branches. > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > correct path. If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for the proposed change. > We had enough good arguments against this change already, so imho > the correct thing to do is do just what Kris asked for: remove the > _dangling_ symlinks. -Kirill From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 10:54:26 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A8316A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:54:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.47.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5588743D4C; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:54:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0C4FC51471; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:54:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:54:24 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Chuck Swiger Message-ID: <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="17pEHd4RhPHOinZp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: Edwin Groothuis cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:54:26 -0000 --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless o= f=20 > where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do= =20 > otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might = be=20 > to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. And I want a pony :-) In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Kris --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB/LzgWry0BWjoQKURAvJIAKD3LD/kenRb82uEBVEJIoYDjYrbSwCgyJjA VghH9fGRac/oFriv6nkbzJU= =tkJ/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --17pEHd4RhPHOinZp-- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:07:03 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C931E16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:07:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2out.barnet.com.au (mail2out.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53FF43D2F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:07:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@mavetju.org) Received: by mail2out.barnet.com.au (Postfix, from userid 27) id 864F5707464; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:07:01 +1100 (EST) X-Viruscan-Id: <41FCBFD5000148A1AEFAB1@BarNet> Received: from mail2-auth.barnet.com.au (mail2.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) Authority" (verified OK)) by mail2.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B60707463; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:07:00 +1100 (EST) Received: from k7.mavetju (edwin-3.int.barnet.com.au [10.10.12.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by mail2-auth.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17316707458; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:07:00 +1100 (EST) Received: by k7.mavetju (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E4B64612A; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:06:58 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:06:58 +1100 From: Edwin Groothuis To: Kirill Ponomarew Message-ID: <20050130110658.GD1209@k7.mavetju> Mail-Followup-To: Edwin Groothuis , Kirill Ponomarew , Holger Kipp , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, perl@freebsd.org, Scott Long , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Holger Kipp cc: Scott Long cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:07:04 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:53:23AM +0100, Kirill Ponomarew wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:32AM +0100, Holger Kipp wrote: > > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > > with stable branches. > > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > the proposed change. Long before I ever saw FreeBSD or Linux, there were symlinks on the AIX, SunOS and Solaris machines from /usr/bin/perl pointing to the right executables. It's not a Linux-ism, it's like what somebody already pointed out, best practice for Perl. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org edwin@mavetju.org | Weblog: http://weblog.barnet.com.au/edwin/ From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:08:49 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 451A316A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:08:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xyzzy.snsonline.net (icarus.snsonline.net [210.18.214.109]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6171C43D45; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:08:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from msergeant@snsonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xyzzy.snsonline.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD00C7B352F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:08:35 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Mark Sergeant Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:08:34 +1000 To: Kirill Ponomarew X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) cc: Holger Kipp cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:08:49 -0000 > > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > the proposed change. > As per the current perl-5.8.6 INSTALL file ... It may seem obvious, but Perl is useful only when users can easily find it. It's often a good idea to have both /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl be symlinks to the actual binary. I like the idea of symlinks to the actual binary and have been doing the same on the mac os X, solaris, irix, linux and FreeBSD boxes I administer. One of the main things I like about FreeBSD is its ports system and the way you can easily configure and install items such as perl. If this is to become the default at least add a knob along the lines of CREATE_PERL_SYMLINKS or somesuch which is enabled by default in an install menu, this should keep everyone happy. I know that working at an ISP I'd have a bloody hard time calling up the 3000 or so people that host with us to tell them that we're going to break their current cgi scripts which work fine on other peoples systems "just cos". I'd like to add a big resounding no for a removal without providing some option in the port to keep those symlinks around. Cheers, Mark From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:10:27 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E5816A4CF; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:10:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from alogis.com (firewall2.alogis.com [62.8.223.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CED43D2F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:10:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: from alogis.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alogis.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0UBAPhR031795; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:10:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: (from hk@localhost) by alogis.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j0UBAPFU031794; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:10:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hk) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:10:25 +0100 From: Holger Kipp To: Chuck Swiger Message-ID: <20050130111025.GB30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: Edwin Groothuis cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:10:27 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Edwin Groothuis wrote: > >On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 11:51:36PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >>Andrew McNaughton wrote: > >>#!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl > > > >"#!/usr/bin/perl -w" sounds much easier. > > Sure, assuming there actually was a perl in /usr/bin. I would not choose > to hardcode the path to perl when env is available to properly locate the > interpreter for #!-based scripts via the $PATH. a) we had perl at /usr/bin/perl => many scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" b) we have a symlink now => many new scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" c) many ISPs have even more users who assume "#!/usr/bin/perl" works. => removing a symlink to create lots_of_trouble(tm) is not the freebsd-ish way of live. this single symlink is needed. d) calling env and then perl increases load unneccessarily => don't do that. => if you like _YOUR_ scripts to work like that, it is fine with me ;-) e) comparing #!/usr/bin/env PERL5OPT='-w' perl with #!/usr/bin/perl -w => I'd vote for the simpler second one. > I don't want to revisit a discussion of whether Perl should be part of base. ok > I don't want the Perl port to change in a way that breaks existing scripts. fine, so we must keep the symlink in /usr/bin/ > I don't want perl scripts to assume that Perl is in /usr/bin, or > /usr/local/bin, or any other specific place. Your problem. Write your scripts accordingly and be happy. Talk with several thousand programmers who use perl and assume it is located at /usr/bin/perl and convince them to write their programs differently. Otherwise, this breaks POLA. See c) > I don't want to have perl symlinked between /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin. Fine, then _you_ can remove the symlink by hand on your systems every time. > I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of > where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do > otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be > to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. Huh? It was removed from the base system, so it belongs to /usr/local. Get real. Removing the symlinks permanently is causing lots of trouble. Not removing them is fine with me and at least most other users. Regards, Holger Kipp From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:19:49 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1A416A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:19:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from voodoo.oberon.net (voodoo.oberon.net [212.118.165.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C7C43D2D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:19:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from krion@voodoo.oberon.net) Received: from krion by voodoo.oberon.net with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1CvD7H-000Nu1-Kt; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:19:43 +0100 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:19:43 +0100 From: Kirill Ponomarew To: Mark Sergeant Message-ID: <20050130111943.GD62253@voodoo.oberon.net> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-NCC-Regid: de.oberon X-NIC-HDL: KP869-RIPE cc: Holger Kipp cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:19:49 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:08:34PM +1000, Mark Sergeant wrote: > >If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > >should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > >the proposed change. > > > As per the current perl-5.8.6 INSTALL file ... > > It may seem obvious, but Perl is useful only when users can easily > find it. It's often a good idea to have both /usr/bin/perl and > /usr/local/bin/perl be symlinks to the actual binary. /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are *BOTH* in default $PATH. -Kirill From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:23:49 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC1016A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:23:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [193.30.224.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B8743D53; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:23:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from cc-147.int.t-online.fr (unknown [213.44.125.147]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by plouf.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F7AA240C1; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:23:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:23:43 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: perl@freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050130111943.GD62253@voodoo.oberon.net> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> <20050130111943.GD62253@voodoo.oberon.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:23:50 -0000 +-le 30/01/2005 12:19 +0100, Kirill Ponomarew =E9crivait : | On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:08:34PM +1000, Mark Sergeant wrote: |> > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers |> > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for |> > the proposed change. |> >=20 |> As per the current perl-5.8.6 INSTALL file ... |>=20 |> It may seem obvious, but Perl is useful only when users can easily |> find it. It's often a good idea to have both /usr/bin/perl and |> /usr/local/bin/perl be symlinks to the actual binary. |=20 | /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are *BOTH* in default $PATH. Last time I looked, cron did not have usr/local in it's path. --=20 Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:24:15 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB9616A4D1 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:24:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5744C43D46 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:24:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thermonite@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so574535wra for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:24:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Bw5N1jTuScez7uow285g7dWFEDQEIOflVRASRu7WN7sHSWo3cDzDQJyCpIBMgDQokuIjehhxKr2Vgwm+4TshfIkBimEI9zIy12V75EgVgXhViIpkHnhXNnGcDhKhCQikQBtkxq4Yv39oSNSBhQV5niqup7DkLg9qvW6m/fLf81E= Received: by 10.54.50.54 with SMTP id x54mr438388wrx; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.18.5 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:24:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:24:11 -0500 From: Phil Bowens To: perl@freebsd.org, Anton Berezin , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Phil Bowens List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:24:15 -0000 I think the color should be green. On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. > > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. > > CORRECT perl-dependant ports should not be affected. > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > > Please respect Reply-To. > Thank you, > > \Anton. > -- > The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- > Jarkko Hietaniemi > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Phil Bowens He who is the greatest of warriors overcomes and subdues himself. From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:25:36 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B288316A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:25:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from voodoo.oberon.net (voodoo.oberon.net [212.118.165.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708BC43D2F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:25:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from krion@voodoo.oberon.net) Received: from krion by voodoo.oberon.net with local (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1CvDCv-000Nwy-IK; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:25:33 +0100 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:25:33 +0100 From: Kirill Ponomarew To: Mathieu Arnold Message-ID: <20050130112533.GE62253@voodoo.oberon.net> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> <20050130111943.GD62253@voodoo.oberon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-NCC-Regid: de.oberon X-NIC-HDL: KP869-RIPE cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:25:36 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 12:23:43PM +0100, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > +-le 30/01/2005 12:19 +0100, Kirill Ponomarew ?crivait : > | On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 09:08:34PM +1000, Mark Sergeant wrote: > |> > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > |> > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > |> > the proposed change. > |> > > |> As per the current perl-5.8.6 INSTALL file ... > |> > |> It may seem obvious, but Perl is useful only when users can easily > |> find it. It's often a good idea to have both /usr/bin/perl and > |> /usr/local/bin/perl be symlinks to the actual binary. > | > | /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are *BOTH* in default $PATH. > > Last time I looked, cron did not have usr/local in it's path. I meant user enviroments, not cron. -Kirill From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 11:46:22 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B37616A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:46:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pi.codefab.com (pi.codefab.com [199.103.21.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A81F43D39; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:46:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D675E7C; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:46:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from pi.codefab.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pi.codefab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 56399-08; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:46:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pool-68-161-114-38.ny325.east.verizon.net [68.161.114.38]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52445DFE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:46:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41FCC905.60307@mac.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:46:13 -0500 From: Chuck Swiger Organization: The Courts of Chaos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> In-Reply-To: <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at codefab.com cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:46:22 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: >>I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of >>where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do >>otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be >>to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. > > And I want a pony :-) I don't expect to get what I want, either. :-) > In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will > conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the > perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use > a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use > /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another > hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Good word, that. It is infeasible to get hundreds of people to all follow a convention-- any convention, no matter how simple and reasonable-- simply by wishing for it. Since a perfect solution does not exist, it is fortunate that we don't actually need one: just something that is good enough for now, for the present tasks. The Perl software I actually use either works fine regardless of whether perl is in /usr/bin, /sw/bin, /opt/bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/pkg/bin, or who knows where else, or else I fix it to suit my requirements when I notice a problem. -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 12:26:40 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A2A16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:26:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pi.codefab.com (pi.codefab.com [199.103.21.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71DFD43D41; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:26:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB59A5EF6; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:26:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from pi.codefab.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pi.codefab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 56700-08; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:26:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pool-68-161-114-38.ny325.east.verizon.net [68.161.114.38]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AA95DC4; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:26:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41FCD276.2000002@mac.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:26:30 -0500 From: Chuck Swiger Organization: The Courts of Chaos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Holger Kipp References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> <20050130111025.GB30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> In-Reply-To: <20050130111025.GB30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at codefab.com cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:26:40 -0000 Holger Kipp wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 05:31:21AM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: >>Sure, assuming there actually was a perl in /usr/bin. I would not choose >>to hardcode the path to perl when env is available to properly locate the >>interpreter for #!-based scripts via the $PATH. > > a) we had perl at /usr/bin/perl > => many scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" If "we" means FreeBSD-4, OK. Otherwise, I remember using a /usr/local/bin/perl-4.036 several years before vendors started shipping Perl with the system in /usr/bin. >> I don't want the Perl port to change in a way that breaks existing scripts. > > fine, so we must keep the symlink in /usr/bin/ That is one solution, but it is not the only available choice. >> I don't want perl scripts to assume that Perl is in /usr/bin, or >> /usr/local/bin, or any other specific place. > > Your problem. Write your scripts accordingly and be happy. Talk with several > thousand programmers who use perl and assume it is located at /usr/bin/perl > and convince them to write their programs differently. Otherwise, this > breaks POLA. See c) As I said to Kris, I'm perfectly willing to change existing software or write my own to suit my preferences. If other people want to do something else which pleases them better, fine, that's up to them. >>I don't want to have perl symlinked between /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin. > > Fine, then _you_ can remove the symlink by hand on your systems every time. Or I could not bother and simply let env deal with finding the right version of perl. Works for me. >> I do want scripts to use a portable mechanism to invoke Perl regardless of >> where the binary happens to be found, but if people are determined to do >> otherwise, well, that's up to them. One solution for those people might be >> to install the Perl port with a $PREFIX of /usr rather than /usr/local. > > Huh? It was removed from the base system, so it belongs to /usr/local. There is a conflict between installing perl to /usr/local/bin and expecting to invoke perl from /usr/bin. Perhaps you've decided to live with it and are happy with symlinks so that both paths work. > Get real. Oh, I am. Mostly. :-) > Removing the symlinks permanently is causing lots of trouble. For some people, agreed. It doesn't matter one bit to other people... > Not removing them is fine with me and at least most other users. Leaving the symlinks as they are now is probably the least intrusive way of dealing with the current mess that Perl script invocation has become. Fortunately, people doing Python seemed to have learned from these problems, as a quick check via GoogleFight suggests that the majority of Python scripts use env rather than hardcoding a path. -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 12:49:10 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A7B16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:49:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.156.12.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B75943D45; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:49:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E686446B32; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:49:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:48:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Oliver Brandmueller In-Reply-To: <20050130095013.GA82144@e-Gitt.NET> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: perl@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org cc: Anton Berezin cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:49:10 -0000 On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Oliver Brandmueller wrote: > - Don't change the behaviour on -STABLE (4.x, 5.x), but make an OPTION > available, that would turn on the "new" behaviour. > > - For -CURRENT (6.x and beyond), if the change comes, make an OPTION > available, to turn on the "old" behaviour. I think I'd be against this also -- those who followed by google fight link will have seen there were about 1.6 million references to "#!/usr/bin/perl" in Google, vs only about 67,000 references to "#!/usr/bin/env perl". One of the important goals in the 6.x work is to avoid creating unnecessary barriers to upgrades, in order to make transition from 5-STABLE to 6-STABLE much more seamless than the transition from 4-STABLE to 5-STABLE has been. Breaking everyone's perl scripts can hardly be described as "making upgrades seamless". :-) Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 12:51:15 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3858C16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:51:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.156.12.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0389643D2F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:51:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B7CB846B35; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:51:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:50:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Xander Damen In-Reply-To: <41FCB39C.5010000@sci.kun.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:51:15 -0000 On Sun, 30 Jan 2005, Xander Damen wrote: > Why would upgraded systems cause problems? I don't think the > upgradesystem will delete any existing symlinks? I don't know about other people, but I use incremental upgrades for only minor releases on larger multi-user systems, generally. Because of the level of effort and typical differences between releases, I want a "break in" period in which I can check for incompatibilities, etc, before taking the new system live. This means that there is no "upgrade", there's only a "new install" -- the user data is migrated. Robert N M Watson > > Xander > > Lupe Christoph wrote: > > >On Saturday, 2005-01-29 at 21:24:25 +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > > > > > >>Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), ... > >> > >> > > > >"don't do that", ever. > > > >Eben postponing this to the time 6.0 comes out does not change it. Any > >upgraded system will fail in interesting and mysterious ways. > > > >I see no benefit in not having a /usr/bin/perl, and I see many problems > >with it. Even when it does not affect my two insignificant ports, I'm > >against it. > > > >If you are still planning on going through with this, please take the > >idea to the perl5-porters list first. perl5-porters@perl.org > > > >My 2 Eurocents, > >Lupe Christoph > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 13:05:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6DD16A4CF for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:05:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA78643D58 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:05:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ertr1013@student.uu.se) Received: by av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id C82F137E4E; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:05:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.181]) by av9-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B326B37E4A for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:05:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from falcon.midgard.homeip.net (h201n1fls24o1048.bredband.comhem.se [212.181.162.201]) by smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 69AA237E45 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:05:27 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 92480 invoked by uid 1001); 30 Jan 2005 13:05:26 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:05:26 +0100 From: Erik Trulsson To: Kirill Ponomarew Message-ID: <20050130130526.GA92427@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: Kirill Ponomarew , Holger Kipp , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, perl@freebsd.org, Scott Long , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050130105323.GB62253@voodoo.oberon.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Holger Kipp cc: Scott Long cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:05:30 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:53:23AM +0100, Kirill Ponomarew wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:32AM +0100, Holger Kipp wrote: > > > I'm fine with this plan for 6-CURRENT. For 5-STABLE, it's a major > > > user-visible change, and that is something that we promised to avoid > > > with stable branches. > > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > If it's linux tradition to put perl in this path, perl programmers > should assume another path on FreeBSD, so it isn't an argument for > the proposed change. It is not a *Linux* tradition. It is a *Perl* tradition which predates both Linux and FreeBSD. Most Perl documentation, going back over a decade, has used #!/usr/bin/perl in example scripts and strongly suggested that system administrators should put Perl there. I would say that there are probably more Perl scripts out there that refer to "#!/usr/bin/perl" than all other variants put together. > > > We had enough good arguments against this change already, so imho > > the correct thing to do is do just what Kris asked for: remove the > > _dangling_ symlinks. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 13:44:43 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBFB16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:44:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (mail.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.163.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839C243D1D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:44:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])72C9844234; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (krusty [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09996-04; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (p548544A4.dip.t-dialin.net [84.133.68.164]) 8CD3C44232; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE92877701; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from merlin.emma.line.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (m2a2.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 17397-05; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 99D5877A1B; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:38 +0100 (CET) From: Matthias Andree To: Matthias Andree In-Reply-To: <20050130030837.GA87780@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> (Erik Trulsson's message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:08:37 +0100") References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <20050130030837.GA87780@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:44:38 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: Oliver Lehmann Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:44:43 -0000 Erik Trulsson writes: >> Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into >> /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed >> $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? > > Then you would have nobody but yourself to blame. So ports not heeding PREFIX or LOCALBASE aren't buggy? Interesting POV. > And what about all the scripts that administrators and users write that > are not part of any port? Scripts that were written according to the > de-facto standard that having '#!/usr/bin/perl' on the first line of > the script will work correctly. As mentioned before, #! /usr/bin/env perl is the canonic SHORT way to run perl, longer ways are in perlrun(1). -- Matthias Andree From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 13:47:12 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B70916A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:47:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (mail.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.163.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7BD43D41; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:47:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])622DF44234; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (krusty [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09996-04-3; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (p548544A4.dip.t-dialin.net [84.133.68.164]) 826D744232; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C0377701; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from merlin.emma.line.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (m2a2.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 17398-05; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id D379F77A1B; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:08 +0100 (CET) From: Matthias Andree To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> (Kris Kennaway's message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:54:24 -0800") References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:47:08 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de cc: Edwin Groothuis cc: Chuck Swiger cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:47:12 -0000 Kris Kennaway writes: > In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will > conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the > perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use > a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use > /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another > hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). Well, broken ports are marked broken and removed after some months. How would broken Perl ports justify special treatment? -- Matthias Andree From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 13:48:38 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8BC316A4CF; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:48:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (mail.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.163.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8184443D1F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:48:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])CB87844235; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (krusty [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09996-04-5; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (p548544A4.dip.t-dialin.net [84.133.68.164]) ECEF744232; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45DB577701; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from merlin.emma.line.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (m2a2.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 17398-05-2; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 6C6F377A1B; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:35 +0100 (CET) From: Matthias Andree To: Holger Kipp In-Reply-To: <20050130111025.GB30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> (Holger Kipp's message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:10:25 +0100") References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> <20050130111025.GB30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:48:35 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de cc: Edwin Groothuis cc: Chuck Swiger cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:48:39 -0000 Holger Kipp writes: > a) we had perl at /usr/bin/perl > => many scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" > b) we have a symlink now > => many new scripts are using "#!/usr/bin/perl" > c) many ISPs have even more users who assume "#!/usr/bin/perl" works. > => removing a symlink to create lots_of_trouble(tm) is not the > freebsd-ish way of live. this single symlink is needed. The admin who wishes to have that symlink can place one himself. Why burden the base system with it if it has no use for Perl? -- Matthias Andree From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 13:49:45 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A317116A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:49:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (krusty.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.163.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E7F43D2D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:49:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])39DAE44235; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (krusty [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09996-04-8; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (p548544A4.dip.t-dialin.net [84.133.68.164]) 6625144232; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43BA77701; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from merlin.emma.line.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (m2a2.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 17398-05-3; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id D1CCD77A1B; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:41 +0100 (CET) From: Matthias Andree To: Holger Kipp In-Reply-To: <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> (Holger Kipp's message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:47:32 +0100") References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:41 +0100 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: Scott Long cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:49:45 -0000 Holger Kipp writes: > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > correct path. POLA doesn't apply to -CURRENT. -- Matthias Andree From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 14:16:08 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A241016A4D0; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:16:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C373943D39; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:16:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 66DB512542F; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:16:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:16:06 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050130141606.GA86132@heechee.tobez.org> Mail-Followup-To: Anton Berezin , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will NOT be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:16:08 -0000 On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). This > will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT; the existing > pollution of /usr/bin will still be performed for older versions of > FreeBSD, if requested via use.perl script. Out of all the arguments against this change the most persuasive for me was the one of ISPs having to modify all their customers' scripts. So - this change is out. Instead: - use.perl is gone in 5.X and -CURRENT, but not in 4.X; - its functions are delegated to pkg-install, namely: - symlink creation, due to the seeming consensus of this thread; it will be done better than it is done now; in particular, more symlinks will be created (perldoc, percc etc), and dangling symlinks will be removed on deinstall; - spamming of /etc/make.conf, which we need for ports; this is also going to be less intrusive than it is now; - spamming of /etc/manpath.config Thank you all for the discussion. \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 15:34:47 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1A516A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:34:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from av7-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (av7-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.110]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEFA43D49 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:34:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ertr1013@student.uu.se) Received: by av7-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 9BBDA37E73; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:34:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.181]) by av7-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8695637E43 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:34:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from falcon.midgard.homeip.net (h201n1fls24o1048.bredband.comhem.se [212.181.162.201]) by smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0120137E48 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:34:43 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 947 invoked by uid 1001); 30 Jan 2005 15:34:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:34:43 +0100 From: Erik Trulsson To: Matthias Andree Message-ID: <20050130153442.GA930@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: Matthias Andree , Holger Kipp , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, perl@freebsd.org, Scott Long , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <41FC75E9.3060601@freebsd.org> <20050130104732.GA30800@intserv.int1.b.intern> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Holger Kipp cc: Scott Long cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:34:47 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:49:41PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Holger Kipp writes: > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > POLA doesn't apply to -CURRENT. Yes, it does - only not as strongly as in -STABLE. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 15:52:04 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9830816A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:52:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from av1-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (av1-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.107]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C631E43D3F for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:52:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ertr1013@student.uu.se) Received: by av1-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 98BB837E42; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:52:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp2-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.178]) by av1-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8640637E64 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:52:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from falcon.midgard.homeip.net (h201n1fls24o1048.bredband.comhem.se [212.181.162.201]) by smtp2-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BF31437E42 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:52:01 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 1002 invoked by uid 1001); 30 Jan 2005 15:52:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:52:01 +0100 From: Erik Trulsson To: Matthias Andree Message-ID: <20050130155201.GB930@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: Matthias Andree , perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, tobez@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <20050130030837.GA87780@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:52:05 -0000 On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:44:38PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Erik Trulsson writes: > > >> Hardcoded paths in scripts are a mess. What if I installed Perl into > >> /opt/mumble on some other machine? /usr/freeware? /what/ever? Changed > >> $PREFIX and/or $LOCALBASE? > > > > Then you would have nobody but yourself to blame. > > So ports not heeding PREFIX or LOCALBASE aren't buggy? Interesting POV. That is not what I said (but, no, they are not necessarily buggy depending on why the they don't heed PREFIX/LOCALBASE.) Respecting PREFIX and LOCALBASE is good, but keeping things working is even better. > > > And what about all the scripts that administrators and users write that > > are not part of any port? Scripts that were written according to the > > de-facto standard that having '#!/usr/bin/perl' on the first line of > > the script will work correctly. > > As mentioned before, #! /usr/bin/env perl is the canonic SHORT way to > run perl, longer ways are in perlrun(1). It might be the canonic way and it might even be the best way, but it is not the standard way. Older versions of perlrun(1) (like the one included in FreeBSD 4.x) does not even mention /usr/bin/env so don't expect too many scripts to use it (and the context in which 'env' is mentioned is handling OS-specific limitations of the #! mechanism.) perlrun(1) does however say that "When possible, it's good for both /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl to be symlinks to the actual binary." -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 16:13:22 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE0C16A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:13:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-gw-cl-d.dmv.com (smtp-gw-cl-d.dmv.com [216.240.97.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A48343D2D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:13:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sven@dmv.com) Received: from mail-gw-cl-b.dmv.com (mail-gw-cl-b.dmv.com [216.240.97.39]) j0UGPQWa072932; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:25:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sven@dmv.com) Received: from [64.45.134.154] (dogpound.dyndns.org [64.45.134.154]) by mail-gw-cl-b.dmv.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j0UGDKeE060017; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:13:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sven@dmv.com) Message-ID: <41FD07A0.2060809@dmv.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:13:20 -0500 From: Sven Willenberger User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: perl@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 216.240.97.42 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 216.240.97.39 cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:13:22 -0000 Anton Berezin wrote: > > In order to keep pkg-install simple, no old symlink chasing and removal > will be done, although the detailed instructions will be posted in > ports/UPDATING and in pkg-message for the ports. > How about leaving it up to the installer? Much like the minicom port prompts the user if they would like to symlink a /dev/modem device, why not ask (post-install) "Would you like to make a symlink in /usr/bin to your new installation?" or as someone else has suggested add a make flag (make ADD_SYMLINK=yes). Those who wish to have an unpolluted /usr/bin can not opt for a symlink, those that want compatibility with a majority of the scripts already written can have the link created. Just a thought, Sven From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 16:54:00 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26D516A4CE for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:54:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from electricrain.com (electricrain.com [64.71.143.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FEEA43D2D for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:54:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fuzzy@electricrain.com) Received: (qmail 1095 invoked by uid 540); 30 Jan 2005 16:53:58 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:53:58 -0800 From: Chris Doherty To: perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050130165358.GL5255@zot.electricrain.com> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: XEmacs X-Koan: mu. X-Message-Flag: This message contains absolutely no malicious code. Organization: The Inside Foundation Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: chris-freebsd@randomcamel.net List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:54:00 -0000 On Sat, Jan 29, 2005 at 09:24:25PM +0100, Anton Berezin said: > In practical terms this will mean a one-time sweep of your scripts in > order to convert them, in a typical case, from #! /usr/bin/perl to > #! /usr/local/bin/perl. options under discussion: 1) break *millions* of pieces of Perl software, plenty of it run by people unable or uninterested in modifying every last little corner of it (even with an automated find/replace, which is guaranteed to break *something*, and if I were them I would just switch to Debian at that point), so the FreeBSD's /usr/bin can have one less symlink by default. 2) respect the way the world actually is, and just leave the symlink in place. #1 does more than violate POLA; it's more akin to renaming /bin/cp to /bin/copy, in the name of progress, and saying everyone should just update their code. it's not clear to me how #1 is a serious choice. chris From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 20:17:50 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E4516A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:17:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.47.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD36243D39; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:17:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 75A5D51514; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:17:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:17:48 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Matthias Andree Message-ID: <20050130201748.GA22358@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YiEDa0DAkWCtVeE4" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: Edwin Groothuis cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway cc: Chuck Swiger Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:17:50 -0000 --YiEDa0DAkWCtVeE4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:47:08PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: > Kris Kennaway writes: >=20 > > In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts will > > conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the > > perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use > > a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use > > /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another > > hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). >=20 > Well, broken ports are marked broken and removed after some months. > How would broken Perl ports justify special treatment? As I mention above, it's a rule that would be impossible to enforce on third party scripts, so it would be wasted effort to try. Kris --YiEDa0DAkWCtVeE4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB/UDrWry0BWjoQKURAuvgAJ0R6ofTGwzYE3o0hKWVpf21bo/sDgCeJxzu VyYuHsLSSC0mhpEc0NRbj9c= =3wuN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YiEDa0DAkWCtVeE4-- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 20:41:31 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600A816A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:41:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zoot.lafn.org (zoot.lafn.ORG [206.117.18.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1261843D41; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:41:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from [10.0.1.90] ([4.28.157.47]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoot.lafn.org (8.12.3p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j0UKfR3J055081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) In-Reply-To: <20050130201748.GA22358@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129220905.46ab86ae.lehmann@ans-netz.de> <41FBFDD9.7070605@mac.com> <20050130162753.D9021@a2.scoop.co.nz> <41FC67D8.2020609@mac.com> <20050130050110.GC1209@k7.mavetju> <41FCB779.7030902@mac.com> <20050130105424.GA31598@xor.obsecurity.org> <20050130201748.GA22358@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Doug Hardie Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 12:41:25 -0800 To: Kris Kennaway X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/680/Sun Jan 23 15:16:15 2005 clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean cc: Edwin Groothuis cc: Matthias Andree cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:41:31 -0000 On Jan 30, 2005, at 12:17, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 02:47:08PM +0100, Matthias Andree wrote: >> Kris Kennaway writes: >> >>> In other words, it's an impossible dream to hope that all scripts >>> will >>> conform to this or any of the other possible choices (remember the >>> perl motto). Even making everything perl in the ports collection use >>> a uniform style is probably an infeasible task (recall 840 ports use >>> /usr/bin/perl, and that's not counting the others that use another >>> hardcoded variant of /usr/local/bin/perl). >> >> Well, broken ports are marked broken and removed after some months. >> How would broken Perl ports justify special treatment? > > As I mention above, it's a rule that would be impossible to enforce on > third party scripts, so it would be wasted effort to try. Many years ago in a far off version, perl was a port and all my loyal subjects worked in peace and harmony. However, someone changed perl to be part of the base system. My subjects rebelled and refused to work saying the the perl of great price could no longer be found. After many hours of chasing this perl and correcting its location my subjects returned to work, and peace and harmony reigned again. Now I see perl going back towards being a port. This realm is not looking forward to another strike by its subjects. The grocery store strike here was more than enough. Don't need any more of them. From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 30 23:45:56 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0B516A4CE; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:45:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABE543D1D; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:45:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from parv@pair.com) Received: from default.chvlva.adelphia.net ([69.160.65.223]) by mta9.adelphia.netESMTP <20050130234555.CLLY7046.mta9.adelphia.net@default.chvlva.adelphia.net>; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:45:55 -0500 Received: by default.chvlva.adelphia.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2A5E9B4FC; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:46:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:46:02 -0500 From: Parv To: Anton Berezin , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050130234602.GA8616@holestein.holy.cow> Mail-Followup-To: Anton Berezin , perl@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:45:56 -0000 in message <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org>, wrote Anton Berezin thusly... > > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). > This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT I am for it. Please do do that. Thanks. - Parv -- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 31 01:19:22 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C8216A4CE; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:19:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from postal2.es.net (postal2.es.net [198.128.3.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89F543D41; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:19:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from ptavv.es.net ([198.128.4.29]) by postal2.es.net (Postal Node 2) with ESMTP (SSL) id IBA74465; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:19:21 -0800 Received: from ptavv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id E78F65D07; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:19:20 -0800 (PST) To: Matthias Andree In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:41 +0100." Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:19:20 -0800 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20050131011920.E78F65D07@ptavv.es.net> cc: Holger Kipp cc: Scott Long cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:19:22 -0000 > From: Matthias Andree > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:49:41 +0100 > Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org > > Holger Kipp writes: > > > It violates POLA on 5-STABLE, and it will violate POLA on 6-CURRENT, > > especially as most perl programmers assume /usr/bin/perl to be the > > correct path. > > POLA doesn't apply to -CURRENT. POLA always applies, but major releases are considered a good opportunity to make needed changes that would generate excessive astonishment on a minor update. This is at least too big for a minor update POLA violation and may well be too big for even a major version. FreeBSD does NOT exist to justify hier(7), style(9) or anything of the sort. These are tools to provide consistent behavior and make FreeBSD maintainable and understandable to developers and users, not to say "screw the users". Perl has been in /usr/bin on almost every Unix-like OS around for longer than FreeBSD has existed. I think changing something like this would be REALLY astonishing to way too many users and developers who happen to write Perl and expect to find it where the Perl documentation say to. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 31 10:00:42 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FF116A4CE for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:00:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.3wgraphics.com (mail.3wgraphics.com [194.87.91.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D45843D1D for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:00:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from skv@protey.ru) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (helo=[192.168.0.1]) by mail.3wgraphics.com with esmtp id 1CvYMJ-00056N-S2 for perl@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:00:39 +0300 Message-ID: <41FE01C7.50609@protey.ru> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:00:39 +0300 From: Sergey Skvortsov Organization: 3W Graphics User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8a5) Gecko/20041122 X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: perl@FreeBSD.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> In-Reply-To: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:00:42 -0000 Anton Berezin wrote: > Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > I plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming Very bad idea - it is not "perl-like" at all. Just a cite from "perlrun": Location of Perl It may seem obvious to say, but Perl is useful only when users can eas- ily find it. When possible, it's good for both /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl to be symlinks to the actual binary. If that can't be done, system administrators are strongly encouraged to put (symlinks to) perl and its accompanying utilities into a directory typically found along a user's PATH, or in some other obvious and convenient place. To remove dangling symlinks in pkg-plist: @unexec [ -L %B/perl5 && ! -x %B/perl5 ] && rm %B/perl5 or a little more sophisticated expression (to restore previous perl-5.00503 on FreeBSD 4.x for example). -- Sergey Skvortsov mailto: skv@protey.ru From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 31 11:03:48 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C731616A4CE for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5FC643D54 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0VB3miB049685 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:48 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j0VB3lN9049680 for perl@freebsd.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:47 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:47 GMT Message-Id: <200501311103.j0VB3lN9049680@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: perl@FreeBSD.org Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:03:48 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2004/03/03] ports/63670 perl 'Unable to read from thread kernel pipe' o [2004/04/22] ports/65900 perl (non-maintainer) IGNORE p5-ExtUtils-MakeM o [2005/01/08] ports/75945 perl Re: FreeBSD Port: p5-Mail-SpamAssassin-3. 3 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f [2004/07/22] ports/69421 perl perl5-related distfiles are in common dis 1 problem total. From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 31 14:50:35 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C330716A4CE; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:50:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sage-one.net (adsl-65-71-135-137.dsl.crchtx.swbell.net [65.71.135.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BE943D1F; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:50:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jackstone@sage-one.net) Received: from sagea (sagea.sage-american [10.0.0.3]) by sage-one.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j0VEoVbL078283; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jackstone@sage-one.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20050131085031.00e74780@sage-one.net> X-Sender: jackstone@sage-one.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:31 -0600 To: Parv , Anton Berezin , perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org From: "Jack L. Stone" In-Reply-To: <20050130234602.GA8616@holestein.holy.cow> References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (sage-one.net [10.0.0.10]); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:31 -0600 (CST) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: milter-spamc/0.25.321 (sage-one10 [10.0.0.10]); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:34 -0600 X-Spam-Status: NO, hits=-5.90 required=4.50 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:50:35 -0000 At 06:46 PM 1.30.2005 -0500, Parv wrote: >in message <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org>, >wrote Anton Berezin thusly... >> >> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I >> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming >> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). >> This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT > >I am for it. > >Please do do that. > >Thanks. > - Parv Please don't do it.... If this were a mere vote of the respondents, the NAYs have it by far. Best regards, Jack L. Stone, Administrator SageOne Net http://www.sage-one.net jackstone@sage-one.net From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 31 16:03:41 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0992516A4CE for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:03:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7E943D72 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:03:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jearle@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so704842wra for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:03:38 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=L6ZvzhQm1mwUxiTFmONBjILZ1bkgWNzLmceNvd8W6EPwk4JFOWPlVXrzL8Z2NLzLSnRqH0EYqOoA0Iaf2Fu7dbXAZ57GsesUGPt6zIXNFDWGSi782l++1Kirn+Wzzp0nmrwuSl+V/0akhfqY5OJtHBa2BmrHmlM2TKDW1ekUIec= Received: by 10.54.30.36 with SMTP id d36mr68355wrd; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.26.56 with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:03:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5bbc0cd6050131080320ca0072@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:03:38 +0100 From: Jared Earle To: perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20050131085031.00e74780@sage-one.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050130234602.GA8616@holestein.holy.cow> <3.0.1.32.20050131085031.00e74780@sage-one.net> Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jared Earle List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:03:41 -0000 On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:50:31 -0600, Jack L. Stone wrote: > If this were a mere vote of the respondents, the NAYs have it by far. I like change. Change is good and it keeps us on our toes. However, some things should not be changed for the sake of change. If /usr/bin/perl were no longer there, people would rather stick with an older version of BSD than change all their scripts and the scripts of their hosted clients. If we're voting, I vote nay. -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 1 02:14:58 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DD816A4CE; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 02:14:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8056A43D46; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 02:14:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from parv@pair.com) Received: from default.chvlva.adelphia.net ([69.160.65.223]) by mta9.adelphia.netESMTP <20050201021455.EQXP28705.mta9.adelphia.net@default.chvlva.adelphia.net>; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:14:55 -0500 Received: by default.chvlva.adelphia.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 49EBEB4F5; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:15:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:15:05 -0500 From: Parv To: "Jack L. Stone" Message-ID: <20050201021504.GA2625@holestein.holy.cow> Mail-Followup-To: "Jack L. Stone" , Anton Berezin , perl@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org> <3.0.1.32.20050131085031.00e74780@sage-one.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20050131085031.00e74780@sage-one.net> cc: perl@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADS UP] perl symlinks in /usr/bin will be gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 02:14:58 -0000 in message <3.0.1.32.20050131085031.00e74780@sage-one.net>, wrote Jack L. Stone thusly... > > At 06:46 PM 1.30.2005 -0500, Parv wrote: > >in message <20050129202425.GA56998@heechee.tobez.org>, > >wrote Anton Berezin thusly... > >> > >> Unless I hear too many cries "don't do that" (with justification), I > >> plan to not create any perl symlinks in /usr/bin in the forthcoming > >> upgrade of both lang/perl5.8 (to 5.8.6) and lang/perl5 (to 5.6.2). > >> This will ONLY be true for FreeBSD 5.X and FreeBSD CURRENT > > > >I am for it. > > > >Please do do that. > > > >Thanks. > > Please don't do it.... > > If this were a mere vote of the respondents, the NAYs have it by > far. Don't worry Anton has already stated, at least once, that the link(s) will live (and even more may be added) before i could have influenced him (fat chance given a large number of negative responses reached him before my sole positive reply). - Parv -- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 2 15:36:29 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454A616A4CE; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:36:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from daren.ca (CPE000ea699cda8-CM0012256ec5ee.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [70.24.149.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84FA043D2D; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:36:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from desjardins@canada.com) Received: from [216.130.212.41] (account daren [216.130.212.41] verified) by daren.ca (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 40351; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:37:13 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=daren.ca; client-ip=216.130.212.41; envelope-from=desjardins@canada.com Message-ID: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:37:23 -0500 From: Daren Desjardins User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041229) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tobez@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Subject: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:36:29 -0000 Yesterday a perl update was released moving it to 5.8.6. According to the UPDATING file all perl related ports will need to be rebuilt. We have a number of desktop machines and a quick check showed that this would result in having to rebuild a minimum of 88 ports. How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? Daren Desjardins -- Unfortunately, while all answers are replies, not all replies are answers From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 2 15:37:46 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8841E16A4CE for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:37:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A6743D31 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:37:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7C40712546E; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:37:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:37:43 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: Daren Desjardins Message-ID: <20050202153743.GB4235@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:37:46 -0000 On Wed, Feb 02, 2005 at 10:37:23AM -0500, Daren Desjardins wrote: > Yesterday a perl update was released moving it to 5.8.6. According to > the UPDATING file all perl related ports will need to be rebuilt. We > have a number of desktop machines and a quick check showed that this > would result in having to rebuild a minimum of 88 ports. > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? Should you decide to upgrade to 5.8.6, it is necessary. \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 3 12:37:20 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1018316A4CF for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:37:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mcgi2.rambler.ru (mcgi2.rambler.ru [81.19.67.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96CF43D46 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:37:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kkapp@rambler.ru) Received: from [81.19.65.30] by mcgi2.rambler.ru with HTTP (mailimap); Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:37:12 +0300 From: A K To: Daren Desjardins Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:37:12 +0300 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> In-Reply-To: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> Message-Id: <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> Sender: A K cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org cc: tobez@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:37:20 -0000 * Daren Desjardins [Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:37:23 -0500]: > Yesterday a perl update was released moving it to 5.8.6. According to > the UPDATING file all perl related ports will need to be rebuilt. We > have a number of desktop machines and a quick check showed that this > would result in having to rebuild a minimum of 88 ports. > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to `5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is not supported and will probably break some modules. -- A K. From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 3 12:48:48 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B95E16A4CE for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:48:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BA443D45 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:48:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2457312543C; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:48:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:48:45 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: A K Message-ID: <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org cc: Daren Desjardins Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:48:48 -0000 On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 03:37:12PM +0300, A K wrote: > * Daren Desjardins [Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:37:23 > -0500]: > > Yesterday a perl update was released moving it to 5.8.6. According to > > the UPDATING file all perl related ports will need to be rebuilt. We > > have a number of desktop machines and a quick check showed that this > > would result in having to rebuild a minimum of 88 ports. > > > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? > > You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to > `5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is > not supported and will probably break some modules. Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs modified. mat and I discussed a possibility of making such tool yesterday. This can be done, and it will probably make 99% of all minor version upgrades as painless as it can get. \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 3 14:31:11 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3034516A4CE; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:31:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from daren.ca (CPE000ea699cda8-CM0012256ec5ee.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [70.24.149.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357D943D1D; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:31:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from desjardins@canada.com) Received: from [216.130.212.41] (account daren [216.130.212.41] verified) by daren.ca (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 40371; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:31:56 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=daren.ca; client-ip=216.130.212.41; envelope-from=desjardins@canada.com Message-ID: <420235E6.3030206@canada.com> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:32:06 -0500 From: Daren Desjardins User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041229) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anton Berezin References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> In-Reply-To: <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:31:11 -0000 Anton Berezin wrote: >On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 03:37:12PM +0300, A K wrote: > > >>* Daren Desjardins [Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:37:23 >>-0500]: >> >> >>>Yesterday a perl update was released moving it to 5.8.6. According to >>>the UPDATING file all perl related ports will need to be rebuilt. We >>>have a number of desktop machines and a quick check showed that this >>>would result in having to rebuild a minimum of 88 ports. >>> >>>How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? >>> >>> >>You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to >>`5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is >>not supported and will probably break some modules. >> >> > >Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the >corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all >relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs >modified. > >mat and I discussed a possibility of making such tool yesterday. This >can be done, and it will probably make 99% of all minor version upgrades >as painless as it can get. > >\Anton. > > Such a script, would be extremely valuable. We performed the update on one of our machines to ensure it would work and see how long it would take on machine that was dedicated to the task. The results were depressing... Unfortunately (thankfully only) 3 ports failed the upgrade. ---> Packages processed: 70 done, 0 ignored, 1 skipped and 2 failed real 1217m50.180s user 927m6.746s sys 197m26.985s -- Unfortunately, while all answers are replies, not all replies are answers From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 00:27:53 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A137916A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:27:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567A643D31 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:27:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CB35C125466; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 01:27:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 01:27:50 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: Daren Desjardins Message-ID: <20050204002750.GA38458@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> <420235E6.3030206@canada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <420235E6.3030206@canada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 00:27:53 -0000 On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 09:32:06AM -0500, Daren Desjardins wrote: > Anton Berezin wrote: > >On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 03:37:12PM +0300, A K wrote: > >>You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to > >>`5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is > >>not supported and will probably break some modules. > >Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the > >corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all > >relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs > >modified. > >mat and I discussed a possibility of making such tool yesterday. This > >can be done, and it will probably make 99% of all minor version upgrades > >as painless as it can get. > Such a script, would be extremely valuable. Please test. ----------8<-----------8<-----------8<-----------8<-----------8<------ #! /usr/local/bin/perl -w # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42) # wrote this file. As long as you retain this notice you # can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think # this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return. Anton Berezin # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # $FreeBSD$ # $Id: perl-after-upgrade,v 1.6 2005/02/04 00:24:43 tobez Exp $ # =pod =head1 NAME perl-after-upgrade -- fixup FreeBSD packages that depend on perl =head1 SYNOPSIS perl-after-upgrade perl-after-upgrade -f =head1 DESCRIPTION The standard procedure after a perl port (either lang/perl5 or lang/perl5.8) upgrade is to basically reinstall all other packages that depend on perl. This is always a painful exercise. The perl-after-upgrade utility makes this process mostly unnecessary. The tool goes through the list of installed packages, looks for those that depend on perl, moves files around, modifies shebang lines in those scripts in which it is necessary to do so, and updates the package database. The correct way of using the tool is: =over 4 =item o go root; =item o make sure the existing dependencies are in order. Use pkgdb utility from sysutils/portupgrade (pkgdb -F); =item o build an up-to-date perl port; =item o install it. Do B deinstall older perl first. Use make install FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=yes; =item o run perl-after-upgrade utility. Do not specify any arguments at first, so it does nothing. Pay attention to the produced output and especially to errorlist at the end, if any; =item o run the utility again, with B<-f> command line option. This will actually do the work. Again, pay attention to the output produced; =item o fix any reported errors; =item o review the files left in the older perl installation. This is typically /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.X.Y/. There is no reason to look at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.X.Y, since there will be plenty of files left (those were installed by perl port itself). There should be very little, if any, files in that directory and its subdirectories, excepting any modules installed from CPAN and a number of .ph files; =item o check that things work as they should; =item o remove backup files from the package database. Those will be /var/db/pkg/*/+CONTENTS.bak; =item o run pkgdb -F again. It might fixup a couple of things. At the very least, it will ask about unregistering one of currently installed perl packages. Do what it suggests; =item o note which perl modules installed from CPAN you will want to reinstall; =item o remove old perl by hand: rm -rf /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.X.Y It is better to avoid removing newly installed perl by accident; =item o that's all. =back =head1 BUGS The perl-after-upgrade script does not handle perl modules installed via CPAN. =head1 COPYRIGHT AND LICENSE Copyright 2005 by Anton Berezin "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42) wrote this module. As long as you retain this notice you can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return. Anton Berezin NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. =head1 CREDITS Thanks to Mathieu Arnold for discussion. =head1 SEE ALSO perl(1). =cut package FreeBSD::Package; use IO::File; use File::Copy; sub new { my ($pkg, %p) = @_; my $pkgdir = $p{pkgdir} || return undef; my $name = $pkgdir; $name =~ s|.*/||; my $c = IO::File->new("< $pkgdir/+CONTENTS"); return undef unless $c; my @lines; while (<$c>) { chomp; push @lines, $_; } my $me = bless { pkgdir => $pkgdir, lines => \@lines, name => $name, }, $pkg; return $me; } sub name { return $_[0]->{name}; } sub lines { my $me = shift; if (@_ && @_ == 1 && ref(@_) eq 'ARRAY') { $me->{lines} = [@{$_[0]}]; $me->{changed} = 1; } elsif (@_) { $me->{lines} = [@_]; $me->{changed} = 1; } else { return @{$me->{lines}}; } } sub write_back { my ($me) = @_; return unless $me->{changed}; my $file = "$me->{pkgdir}/+CONTENTS"; copy($file, "$file.bak"); my $c = IO::File->new("> $file"); return unless $c; for (@{$me->{lines}}) { print $c "$_\n"; } } package FreeBSD::Package::DB; use strict; sub new { my ($pkg, %p) = @_; my $me = bless { dbdir => $p{dbdir} || $ENV{PKG_DBDIR} || "/var/db/pkg", }, $pkg; $me->{packages} = [ grep { -d } glob "$me->{dbdir}/*" ]; $me->reset; return $me; } sub next { my ($me) = @_; while (1) { $me->{current}++; if ($me->{current} >= @{$me->{packages}}) { $me->reset; return undef; } my $pkg = FreeBSD::Package->new(pkgdir => $me->{packages}->[$me->{current}]); return $pkg if $pkg; } } sub reset { my ($me) = @_; $me->{current} = -1; } package main; use Config; use File::Temp qw/tempfile/; use File::Copy; my $target = $Config::Config{PERL_REVISION} . "." . $Config::Config{PERL_VERSION} . "." . $Config::Config{PERL_SUBVERSION}; my $source = ""; if ($Config::Config{api_revision} < $Config::Config{PERL_REVISION}) { $source = ".["; for ($Config::Config{api_revision} .. $Config::Config{PERL_REVISION}) { $source .= $_; } $source .= "]\\.\\d+\\.\\d+"; } elsif ($Config::Config{api_revision} > $Config::Config{PERL_REVISION}) { die "internal error, this perl is too old\n"; } else { $source .= "$Config::Config{PERL_REVISION}\\."; if ($Config::Config{api_version} < $Config::Config{PERL_VERSION}) { $source .= "["; for ($Config::Config{api_version} .. $Config::Config{PERL_VERSION}) { $source .= $_; } $source .= "]\\.\\d+"; } elsif ($Config::Config{api_version} > $Config::Config{PERL_VERSION}) { die "internal error, this perl is too old\n"; } else { $source .= "$Config::Config{PERL_VERSION}\\."; if ($Config::Config{api_subversion} < $Config::Config{PERL_SUBVERSION}) { $source .= "["; for ($Config::Config{api_subversion} .. $Config::Config{PERL_SUBVERSION}) { $source .= $_; } $source .= "]"; } elsif ($Config::Config{api_subversion} > $Config::Config{PERL_SUBVERSION}) { die "internal error, this perl is too old\n"; } else { $source .= "$Config::Config{PERL_SUBVERSION}\\."; } } } my $dry_run = 1; my @errors; sub fix_file { my ($file, $perlver, $target) = @_; return if $file =~ /\.gz$/; my $sf = IO::File->new("< $file"); return "" unless $sf; my $line = <$sf>; my $new_md5 = ""; if ($line && $line =~ s|^(\s*#!\s*[\w/]+perl)\Q$perlver\E\b|$1$target|) { if ($dry_run) { $new_md5 = 1; } else { my $dir = $file; $dir =~ s|/[^/]+$||; my ($fh, $fn) = tempfile(DIR=> $dir); if ($fh) { print $fh $line; while (<$sf>) { print $fh $_; } close $fh; $new_md5 = `/sbin/md5 -q $fn`; chomp $new_md5; unlink $file or do { push @errors, "Failed to unlink $file: $!"; unlink $fn; return ""; }; rename $fn, $file or do { push @errors, "Failed to rename $fn to $file: $!"; return ""; }; } else { push @errors, "Failed to modify $file: $!"; } } return $new_md5; } } sub mkdir_recur { my ($dir) = @_; $dir =~ s|/+$||; my $orig = $dir; if ($dir =~ m|^$|) { return 1; } else { $dir =~ s|/[^/]+$||; my $r = mkdir_recur($dir); return $r unless $r; mkdir $orig, 0777; my $e = $!; unless (-d $orig) { push @errors, "Could not create directory $orig: $e"; return 0; } return 1; } } if (@ARGV && $ARGV[0] eq "-f") { $dry_run = 0; } # my $db = FreeBSD::Package::DB->new; my ($fixed, $skipped, $tot_moved, $tot_modified) = (0,0,0,0); while (my $pkg = $db->next) { my $prefix = ""; my @lines; my $perlver = ""; my $new_md5; my ($adjusted, $moved, $modified) = (0,0,0); for ($pkg->lines) { if (/^([^@]\S+)\s*$/) { last unless $perlver; my $l = $_; $new_md5 = fix_file("$prefix/$_", $perlver, $target); $modified++ if $new_md5; my $from = "$prefix/$l"; my $to = $from; if ($to =~ s|/perl5/$source/|/perl5/$target/|g or $to =~ s|/perl5/site_perl/$source/|/perl5/site_perl/$target/|g) { my $dir = $to; $dir =~ s|/[^/]+$||; unless ($dry_run) { if (mkdir_recur($dir)) { move($from, $to); } else { push @errors, " could not move $from to $to"; } } $moved++; } $_ = $l; } elsif (/^\@comment\s+MD5:[\da-f]+\s*$/ && $new_md5) { s|MD5:(\S+)|MD5:$new_md5|; $new_md5 = ""; } else { $new_md5 = ""; } if (/^\@cwd\s+(\S+)\s*$/) { $prefix = $1; } elsif (/^\@pkgdep\s+perl-($source)\S*\s*$/) { if ($target ne $1) { $perlver = $1; s|perl-\Q$perlver\E|perl-$target|; } } if (s|/perl5/$source/|/perl5/$target/|g || s|/perl5/site_perl/$source/|/perl5/site_perl/$target/|g) { last unless $perlver; $adjusted++; } push @lines, $_; } if ($perlver) { unless ($dry_run) { $pkg->lines(@lines); $pkg->write_back; } $fixed++; $tot_modified += $modified; $tot_moved += $moved; print $pkg->name, ": $moved moved, $modified modified, $adjusted adjusted\n"; } else { $skipped++; } } print "\n---\n"; print "Fixed $fixed packages ($tot_moved files moved, $tot_modified files modified)\n"; print "Skipped $skipped packages\n"; if (@errors) { print "The script has encountered following problems:\n"; for (@errors) { print "$_\n"; } print "\n---\n"; print "Fixed $fixed packages ($tot_moved files moved, $tot_modified files modified)\n"; print "Skipped $skipped packages\n"; } ----------8<-----------8<-----------8<-----------8<-----------8<------ Cheers, \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 02:58:48 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC2916A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 02:58:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.47.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA7C43D49 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 02:58:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E018D512AF; Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:58:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 18:58:47 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: perl@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050204025847.GA39442@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9amGYk9869ThD9tj" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: [ports-i386@pointyhat.freebsd.org: p5-WWW-Mechanize-1.10 pkg-plist errors on i386 5] X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 02:58:48 -0000 --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear port maintainer, The following port has an incomplete pkg-plist, or other errors in the files installed by the port. This may mean that the package is incomplete or non-functional; at the very least, your port does not leave the filesystem in the same state it was before the port was installed. Can you please investigate? In the near future, this condition will be treated as an error on the package cluster, which means that the package will not be made available on the ftp site. Thanks, Kris "Ports Janitor" Kennaway ----- Forwarded message from User Ports-i386 ----- X-Original-To: kkenn@localhost Delivered-To: kkenn@localhost.obsecurity.org Delivered-To: kris@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:16:25 GMT From: User Ports-i386 To: krion@FreeBSD.org, kris@FreeBSD.org Subject: p5-WWW-Mechanize-1.10 pkg-plist errors on i386 5 X-UIDL: lWI!!j!D!!mV"#!'Gb"! X-Bogosity: No, tests=3Dbogofilter, spamicity=3D0.000000, version=3D0.92.8 building p5-WWW-Mechanize-1.10 on gohan15.freebsd.org in directory /x/tmp/5/chroot/23583 maintained by: perl@FreeBSD.org port directory: /usr/ports/www/p5-WWW-Mechanize For the full build log, see http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/i386-errorlogs/a.5.2004121802/p5-W= WW-Mechanize-1.10.log list of extra files and directories in / (not present before this port was = installed but present after it was deinstalled) 1947545 8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512= Feb 3 10:16 usr/local/share/doc/WWW-Mechanize 1947547 80 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 38991= Feb 3 10:15 usr/local/share/doc/WWW-Mechanize/www-mechanize-logo.png ----- End forwarded message ----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCAuTnWry0BWjoQKURAqcsAKCTrhL26jVvSj49NSoDbBx4Neym8gCdEYwc md1e1W900au40upjYuQ0f9U= =osDI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9amGYk9869ThD9tj-- From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 08:59:38 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3EF16A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:59:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E552543D45 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:59:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3B8F5125467; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:59:34 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:59:34 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: Daren Desjardins Message-ID: <20050204085934.GA52914@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> <420235E6.3030206@canada.com> <20050204002750.GA38458@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050204002750.GA38458@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:59:38 -0000 On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 01:27:50AM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > Please test. > # $Id: perl-after-upgrade,v 1.6 2005/02/04 00:24:43 tobez Exp $ There is actually a file permission bug in the script. The following patch fixes that: Index: perl-after-upgrade =================================================================== RCS file: /home/tobez/.local./cvs/FreeBSD-perl-tools/perl-after-upgrade,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -u -r1.6 perl-after-upgrade --- perl-after-upgrade 4 Feb 2005 00:24:43 -0000 1.6 +++ perl-after-upgrade 4 Feb 2005 08:57:34 -0000 @@ -285,6 +285,7 @@ close $fh; $new_md5 = `/sbin/md5 -q $fn`; chomp $new_md5; + my $mode = (stat($file))[2] & 07777; unlink $file or do { push @errors, "Failed to unlink $file: $!"; unlink $fn; @@ -294,6 +295,7 @@ push @errors, "Failed to rename $fn to $file: $!"; return ""; }; + chmod $mode, $file; } else { push @errors, "Failed to modify $file: $!"; } \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 13:53:26 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E4716A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:53:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mcgi2.rambler.ru (mcgi2.rambler.ru [81.19.67.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1914743D2D for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:53:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kkapp@rambler.ru) Received: from [81.19.65.30] by mcgi2.rambler.ru with HTTP (mailimap); Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:53:18 +0300 From: A K To: Anton Berezin Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:53:18 +0300 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> In-Reply-To: <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> Message-Id: <1004303803.1107525198.147315880.81488@mcgi2.rambler.ru> Sender: A K cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org cc: Daren Desjardins Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:53:26 -0000 * Anton Berezin [Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:48:45 +0100]: > > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? > > You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to > > `5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is > > not supported and will probably break some modules. > Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the > corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all > relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs > modified. And user is warned that XS modules can break :) Anyway, your `after upgrade' script looks like a huge step forward, thanks a lot! -- A K. From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 13:57:12 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 007DB16A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:57:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE0B43D2F for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:57:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9A2A5125466; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:57:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:57:06 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: A K Message-ID: <20050204135706.GC52914@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> <1004303803.1107525198.147315880.81488@mcgi2.rambler.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1004303803.1107525198.147315880.81488@mcgi2.rambler.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org cc: Daren Desjardins Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:57:12 -0000 On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 04:53:18PM +0300, A K wrote: > * Anton Berezin [Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:48:45 +0100]: > > > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? > > > You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to > > > `5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is > > > not supported and will probably break some modules. > > Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the > > corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all > > relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs > > modified. > > And user is warned that XS modules can break :) Of course, anything can break, but I would worry more about things with their own little config files with the old paths in them. The script at least tries to not touch things installed by older binary incompatible perls (the $Config::Config{api_XXXX} part in the code). Cheers, \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 17:37:00 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8998116A4CE for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:37:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from heechee.tobez.org (heechee.tobez.org [217.157.39.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69AB943D31 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:36:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tobez@tobez.org) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4A10D125467; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:36:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:36:56 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: A K Message-ID: <20050204173656.GB8366@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> <1004303803.1107525198.147315880.81488@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050204135706.GC52914@heechee.tobez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050204135706.GC52914@heechee.tobez.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org cc: Daren Desjardins Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:37:00 -0000 On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 02:57:06PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: > On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 04:53:18PM +0300, A K wrote: > > * Anton Berezin [Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:48:45 +0100]: > > > > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? > > > > You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to > > > > `5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that is > > > > not supported and will probably break some modules. > > > Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the > > > corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all > > > relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs > > > modified. > > > > And user is warned that XS modules can break :) > > Of course, anything can break, but I would worry more about things with > their own little config files with the old paths in them. The script at > least tries to not touch things installed by older binary incompatible > perls (the $Config::Config{api_XXXX} part in the code). Another failure mode is of course those packages that link against perl. These will probably have to be discovered and re-compiled (although in my case sed -i.bak -e 's|5\.8\.5|5.8.6|' /usr/local/bin/vim was quite enough to fix vim with perl). :-) \Anton. -- The moronity of the universe is a monotonically increasing function. -- Jarkko Hietaniemi From owner-freebsd-perl@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 4 19:14:26 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E7716A4CE; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 19:14:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [193.30.224.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20B843D31; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 19:14:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from pouet.in.mat.cc (pouet.in.mat.cc [193.30.224.122]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by plouf.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C715A24072; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:14:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:14:18 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: Anton Berezin , A K Message-ID: <5C2EAEAA832D1680E05C9C6D@[192.168.1.5]> In-Reply-To: <20050204173656.GB8366@heechee.tobez.org> References: <4200F3B3.7050706@canada.com> <813911377.1107434232.147437664.80111@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050203124845.GD15084@heechee.tobez.org> <1004303803.1107525198.147315880.81488@mcgi2.rambler.ru> <20050204135706.GC52914@heechee.tobez.org> <20050204173656.GB8366@heechee.tobez.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.0a4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline cc: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org cc: Daren Desjardins Subject: Re: Perl 5.8.6 upgrade X-BeenThere: freebsd-perl@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: maintainer of a number of perl-related ports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:14:26 -0000 +-Le 04/02/2005 18:36 +0100, Anton Berezin a dit : | On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 02:57:06PM +0100, Anton Berezin wrote: |> On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 04:53:18PM +0300, A K wrote: |> > * Anton Berezin [Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:48:45 +0100]: |> > > > > How necessary is it to rebuild all perl ports? |> > > > You can copy `5.8.5' dirs under /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl to |> > > > `5.8.6' (or add 5.8.5 to PERL5LIB) as a desperate measure but that |> > > > is not supported and will probably break some modules. |> > > Actually, this should work just fine, if at the same time the |> > > corresponding /var/db/pkg/ entries are modified accordingly, and all |> > > relevant scripts in LOCALBASE/bin and X11BASE/bin have their shebangs |> > > modified. |> > |> > And user is warned that XS modules can break :) |> |> Of course, anything can break, but I would worry more about things with |> their own little config files with the old paths in them. The script at |> least tries to not touch things installed by older binary incompatible |> perls (the $Config::Config{api_XXXX} part in the code). | | Another failure mode is of course those packages that link against perl. | These will probably have to be discovered and re-compiled (although in | my case sed -i.bak -e 's|5\.8\.5|5.8.6|' /usr/local/bin/vim was quite | enough to fix vim with perl). :-) I've been doing some kind of : ldconfig -m $(dirname $(locate libperl.so)) And it has worked pretty good until now :-) -- Mathieu Arnold