From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 5 11:02:25 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5BD16A452 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:02:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0562543D53 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:02:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85B2O6K077021 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:02:24 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j85B2Nxm077016 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:02:23 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:02:23 GMT Message-Id: <200509051102.j85B2Nxm077016@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:02:25 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/01/04] misc/15876 small PicoBSD message of the day problems o [2001/06/18] misc/28255 small picobsd documentation still references ol o [2002/09/13] kern/42728 small many problems in src/usr.sbin/ppp/* afte o [2003/05/14] misc/52255 small picobsd build script fails under FreeBSD o [2003/05/14] misc/52256 small picobsd build script does not read in use 5 problems total. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 7 21:31:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D3C816A41F for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:31:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from info@martenvijn.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D25443D45 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:31:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from info@martenvijn.nl) Received: from [192.168.1.6] (vijn.xs4all.nl [194.109.254.102]) by smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87LVHKd053484 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 23:31:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from info@martenvijn.nl) From: Marten Vijn To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Marten Vijn Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:33:17 +0000 Message-Id: <1126135997.653.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: testers wanted X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: info@martenvijn.nl List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:31:22 -0000 For people thas would like to setup bigger public networks please read and test: http://martenvijn.nl/tinybsd/WIRELESS-NODE-HOW-TO.txt This builds a 6.0 node image like i am testing now in Wireless Leiden. kind regards, Marten From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 7 21:39:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C692C16A41F for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:39:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thompsa@freebsd.org) Received: from heff.fud.org.nz (60-234-149-201.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.149.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4A343D48 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:39:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thompsa@freebsd.org) Received: by heff.fud.org.nz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B22011CCD4; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:39:22 +1200 (NZST) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:39:22 +1200 From: Andrew Thompson To: Marten Vijn Message-ID: <20050907213922.GA98607@heff.fud.org.nz> References: <1126135997.653.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1126135997.653.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: testers wanted X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:39:24 -0000 On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 11:33:17PM +0000, Marten Vijn wrote: > For people thas would like to setup bigger public networks > > please read and test: > > http://martenvijn.nl/tinybsd/WIRELESS-NODE-HOW-TO.txt > > This builds a 6.0 node image like i am testing now in Wireless Leiden. > Great. I can spot one type-o already :) - cp /usr/share/example/ports-supfile /root/sup + cp /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile /root/sup cheers, Andrew From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 7 22:01:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DCAA16A41F for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:01:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB0143D49 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:01:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from [10.0.5.52] ([69.159.107.216]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050907220101.BGFO26967.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@[10.0.5.52]> for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:01:01 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org From: Sandro Noel Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:00:44 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) Subject: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:01:03 -0000 Greetings Embedded Gurus. I'm trying to build a system, so this is a brain dump of my needs and questions. For the past 3 month i have been scratching the net and book stores to collect as much information as possible about the FreeBSD system, tough the amount of information is quite satisfactory, and repeated many times in all kinds of format, i'm still missing some information to make me completely comfortable with what i want to achieve. So far PicoBSD configuration and building it, makes it easy to build a system, but i need more than that the information i would really need to understand it all is: I got myself Embedded FreeBSD cookbook it's good if you want to build a firewall. and some drivers ( not my wish at this time ) -What files are needed to build a bare system. the kernel and it's modules, configuration files, start-up scripts what else am i forgetting. What files are needed for WLAN networking to work, with or without DHCP client. what are the files involved into video and sound output. - and then there would be the explanation of what are the files in the /bin and /sbin directories what are they used for. yes i know the meaning of the directory structure, and of course i know about the ones i use, in a regular shell, but i want to know about the ones the system can't live without. the ones that make it tick, and why. I found that LDD is a magical tool.. :) to find lib dependencies. I know i can find application dependencies into the port makefile, witch is a BIG THAKNK YOU THE BSD team. Yes i know i could use some else's efforts and copy their thing like everyone else is doing, but i like to understand what i do before getting into it. this way, I know where my are mistakes when they happen, and it's much faster to fix. Thank you for any help you fine people can provide. Sandro Noel snoel@gestosoft.com From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 15:41:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8418E16A420 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:41:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from mail.networksolutionsemail.com (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D3E0F43D46 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:41:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: (qmail 9715 invoked by uid 78); 8 Sep 2005 15:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail2) (205.178.146.50) by mail.networksolutionsemail.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 15:41:28 -0000 Received: from 204.101.154.2 (unverified [204.101.154.2]) by webmail2 (VisualOffice 4.01) with WEBMAIL id 1935; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:41:28 +0000 From: "Sandro Noel." To: "Nathan Littlepage" Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mintersoft VisualOffice, Build 4.01.1003 X-Originating-IP: [204.101.154.2] Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:41:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--=_vm_0011_W9038021195_1935_1126194088" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:41:31 -0000 ----=_vm_0011_W9038021195_1935_1126194088 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nathan, thank you for the pointer, unfortunately, it does not help me. and i've tried it, the scripts are great, and i actualy use the mklibs.pl= script the one that walks the tree and pick's up the libraries on the way, it's = a very nice script to have :) You see my ultimate goal is to build my system; sleek, slim, and polished= , with strictly only what is needed to fill the task. but I also do not want to forget anything, in the sense that i couldforge= t a configuration file that would cause the system to work ondefault valu= es, and notice it later when i bump into a problem, so ineed to understan= d it as much as possible. what i need are pointers to hard to find documentation about the building= blocks of the system.(maybe it does not exist) Not the architecture, i've read it, and it helps in understanding theinne= r mecanics, but then again that is way to deep for my needs. and it's not the handbook either, read that too, and while it is great fo= r a user perspective, it's to shalow for my needs. I am not talking about the man page for a perticular application, thatis = way to specific, tough it's somewhat sometimes usefull to figure outthe c= onfiguration options and the configuration files that shouldfollow, but t= here not always acurate. I need something in the middle. more like on the lines of , the basic core system is the kernel and this and that file, this configur= ation and that setting. for the modules you need to include this nad configure that, and here are= some options. if you want to add networking to the core system, you need to add these f= iles, and configura this and that. if you want IPV6 then you need this and that, and you need to configure t= his and that file. Mainly the information would not leave the scope of the core system, I do not need more info on how to install samba or Xorg, That info is available all over the place, and BSD makes it really painle= ss to install them anyways. I'm sure, or at least i hope i'm not the only one who would like such doc= umentation. Thank you Nathan. Sandro Noel. ----=_vm_0011_W9038021195_1935_1126194088 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment From: "Nathan Littlepage" To: "Sandro Noel" Message-ID: <431F8C2A.2040103@iwantka.com> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:56:00 +0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: snoel@281055.285387 Received: (qmail 29616 invoked by uid 78); 8 Sep 2005 01:00:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns-mr8.netsolmail.com) (205.178.149.7) by mail5.netsol.inquent.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 01:00:32 -0000 Received: from mx3.bigrivertel.net ([64.82.228.61]) by ns-mr8.netsolmail.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8810Vpd026700 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:00:32 -0400 Received: (qmail 99906 invoked by uid 89); 8 Sep 2005 01:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.13?) (unsane@4b41.com@66.189.234.38) by 64.82.228.61 with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 01:00:22 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try here for a good break down on building your own small version of FreeBSD. https://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html Hope that gets you what you're looking for. Sandro Noel wrote: > Greetings Embedded Gurus. > > > I'm trying to build a system, so this is a brain dump of my needs and > questions. > > For the past 3 month i have been scratching the net and book stores to > collect as much information as possible about the FreeBSD system, tough > the amount of information is quite satisfactory, and repeated many > times in all kinds of format, i'm still missing some information to > make me completely comfortable with what i want to achieve. > > So far PicoBSD configuration and building it, makes it easy to build a > system, but i need more than that > the information i would really need to understand it all is: > > I got myself Embedded FreeBSD cookbook it's good if you want to build > a firewall. and some drivers ( not my wish at this time ) > > -What files are needed to build a bare system. > the kernel and it's modules, > configuration files, > start-up scripts > what else am i forgetting. > > What files are needed for WLAN networking to work, with or without > DHCP client. > what are the files involved into video and sound output. > > - and then there would be the explanation of what are the files in the > /bin and /sbin directories what are they used for. > yes i know the meaning of the directory structure, and of course i > know about the ones i use, > in a regular shell, but i want to know about the ones the system > can't live without. > the ones that make it tick, and why. > > I found that LDD is a magical tool.. :) to find lib dependencies. > I know i can find application dependencies into the port makefile, > witch is a BIG THAKNK YOU THE BSD team. > > Yes i know i could use some else's efforts and copy their thing like > everyone else is doing, but i like to understand what i do before > getting into it. > this way, I know where my are mistakes when they happen, and it's much > faster to fix. > > Thank you for any help you fine people can provide. > > Sandro Noel > snoel@gestosoft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > ----=_vm_0011_W9038021195_1935_1126194088-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 16:59:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB3A16A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:59:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D4743D48 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:59:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j88Gxp9Z021362; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0/Submit) id j88GxpWU021361; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: "Sandro Noel." Message-ID: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="a+b56+3nqLzpiR9O" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=8.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:59:52 -0000 --a+b56+3nqLzpiR9O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Please don't top post or use lines longer than 78 characters.] On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 03:41:28PM +0000, Sandro Noel. wrote: > Nathan, > thank you for the pointer, unfortunately, it does not help me. and > i've tried it, the scripts are great, and i actualy use the mklibs.pl > script the one that walks the tree and pick's up the libraries on the > way, it's a very nice script to have :) > > You see my ultimate goal is to build my system; sleek, slim, and > polished, with strictly only what is needed to fill the task. but I > also do not want to forget anything, in the sense that i couldforget > a configuration file that would cause the system to work ondefault > values, and notice it later when i bump into a problem, so ineed to > understand it as much as possible. > > what i need are pointers to hard to find documentation about the > building blocks of the system.(maybe it does not exist) Not the > architecture, i've read it, and it helps in understanding theinner > mecanics, but then again that is way to deep for my needs. and it's > not the handbook either, read that too, and while it is great for a > user perspective, it's to shalow for my needs. I am not talking about > the man page for a perticular application, thatis way to specific, > tough it's somewhat sometimes usefull to figure outthe configuration > options and the configuration files that shouldfollow, but there not > always acurate. > > I need something in the middle. > > more like on the lines of , > the basic core system is the kernel and this and that file, this > configuration and that setting. for the modules you need to include > this nad configure that, and here are some options. if you want to > add networking to the core system, you need to add these files, and > configura this and that. if you want IPV6 then you need this and that, > and you need to configure this and that file. > > Mainly the information would not leave the scope of the core system, > I do not need more info on how to install samba or Xorg, That info > is available all over the place, and BSD makes it really painless to > install them anyways. > > I'm sure, or at least i hope i'm not the only one who would like such > documentation. We'd love to have such documenation, but creating it would be a massive task and keeping it up to date would be nearly as much work so no one has done it. -- Brooks >=20 > Thank you Nathan. >=20 > Sandro Noel. >=20 > From: "Nathan Littlepage" > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:56:00 +0000 > To: "Sandro Noel" > Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system >=20 > Try here for a good break down on building your own small version of=20 > FreeBSD. >=20 > https://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html >=20 > Hope that gets you what you're looking for. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sandro Noel wrote: > > Greetings Embedded Gurus. > >=20 > >=20 > > I'm trying to build a system, so this is a brain dump of my needs and = =20 > > questions. > >=20 > > For the past 3 month i have been scratching the net and book stores to= =20 > > collect as much information as possible about the FreeBSD system, toug= h=20 > > the amount of information is quite satisfactory, and repeated many=20 > > times in all kinds of format, i'm still missing some information to=20 > > make me completely comfortable with what i want to achieve. > >=20 > > So far PicoBSD configuration and building it, makes it easy to build a= =20 > > system, but i need more than that > > the information i would really need to understand it all is: > >=20 > > I got myself Embedded FreeBSD cookbook it's good if you want to build= =20 > > a firewall. and some drivers ( not my wish at this time ) > >=20 > > -What files are needed to build a bare system. > > the kernel and it's modules, > > configuration files, > > start-up scripts > > what else am i forgetting. > >=20 > > What files are needed for WLAN networking to work, with or without= =20 > > DHCP client. > > what are the files involved into video and sound output. > >=20 > > - and then there would be the explanation of what are the files in the= =20 > > /bin and /sbin directories what are they used for. > > yes i know the meaning of the directory structure, and of course i= =20 > > know about the ones i use, > > in a regular shell, but i want to know about the ones the system = =20 > > can't live without. > > the ones that make it tick, and why. > >=20 > > I found that LDD is a magical tool.. :) to find lib dependencies. > > I know i can find application dependencies into the port makefile, =20 > > witch is a BIG THAKNK YOU THE BSD team. > >=20 > > Yes i know i could use some else's efforts and copy their thing like = =20 > > everyone else is doing, but i like to understand what i do before =20 > > getting into it. > > this way, I know where my are mistakes when they happen, and it's much= =20 > > faster to fix. > >=20 > > Thank you for any help you fine people can provide. > >=20 > > Sandro Noel > > snoel@gestosoft.com > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --a+b56+3nqLzpiR9O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDIG4HXY6L6fI4GtQRAucpAKCsVkSFwTu/YTXZSty9hvn0LxkNCwCfcVeM 8qGdKae77FkstcYfdTte1ao= =JqtR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a+b56+3nqLzpiR9O-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 17:44:16 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FDE16A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:44:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com (mrout1.yahoo.com [216.145.54.171]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F7A43D6A for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:44:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from guest-157.lobby.yahoo.com.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id j88Hg0e1093888; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:42:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Brooks Davis In-Reply-To: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> References: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.12.2 (99 Luftballons) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.3.50 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.1.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:44:17 -0000 At Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0700, brooks wrote: > > I'm sure, or at least i hope i'm not the only one who would like such > > documentation. > > We'd love to have such documenation, but creating it would be a massive > task and keeping it up to date would be nearly as much work so no one > has done it. And if it were to be done I would strongly recommend Doxygen and some relatively rigorous standards. I would also be willing to help. Later, George From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 20:26:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1B716A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:26:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from mail.networksolutionsemail.com (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4900143D46 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:26:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: (qmail 6847 invoked by uid 78); 8 Sep 2005 20:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail9) (205.178.146.50) by mail14.netsol.inquent.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 20:26:04 -0000 Received: from 204.101.154.2 (unverified [204.101.154.2]) by webmail9 (VisualOffice 4.01) with WEBMAIL id 19842; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:26:04 +0000 From: "Sandro Noel." To: "Brooks Davis" Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mintersoft VisualOffice, Build 4.01.1003 X-Originating-IP: [204.101.154.2] Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:26:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--=_vm_0011_W1044516538_19842_1126211164" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:26:06 -0000 ----=_vm_0011_W1044516538_19842_1126211164 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Brooks, thanks for leting me know i'm not the only one :) i was starting to feel kind 0f weird. There must be a way for me to find out, somehow the relations between the files -> functionality relating to system -> dependencies ( config files libraries or other programs ) I might have a look at the source, but then again it's so easy to skip something in there. If I can find that, I will build such documentation. This would be highly valuable information to any embedded developper trying his hands at FreeBSD. not to mention, teching a much better unerstanding for everyone involved. cheers. Sandro Noel. ----=_vm_0011_W1044516538_19842_1126211164 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment From: "Brooks Davis" To: "Sandro Noel." Cc: "Nathan Littlepage" , freebsd-small@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:59:00 +0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: snoel@281055.285387 Received: (qmail 10645 invoked by uid 78); 8 Sep 2005 17:41:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns-mr3.netsolmail.com) (205.178.149.7) by mail.networksolutionsemail.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 17:41:29 -0000 Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by ns-mr3.netsolmail.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j88Heth0024936 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:41:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j88Gxp9Z021362; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0/Submit) id j88GxpWU021361; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0700 References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=8.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--=_vm_0022_H102381175027410_19842_1126211164" ----=_vm_0022_H102381175027410_19842_1126211164 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Please don't top post or use lines longer than 78 characters.] On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 03:41:28PM +0000, Sandro Noel. wrote: > Nathan, > thank you for the pointer, unfortunately, it does not help me. and > i've tried it, the scripts are great, and i actualy use the mklibs.pl > script the one that walks the tree and pick's up the libraries on the > way, it's a very nice script to have :) > > You see my ultimate goal is to build my system; sleek, slim, and > polished, with strictly only what is needed to fill the task. but I > also do not want to forget anything, in the sense that i couldforget > a configuration file that would cause the system to work ondefault > values, and notice it later when i bump into a problem, so ineed to > understand it as much as possible. > > what i need are pointers to hard to find documentation about the > building blocks of the system.(maybe it does not exist) Not the > architecture, i've read it, and it helps in understanding theinner > mecanics, but then again that is way to deep for my needs. and it's > not the handbook either, read that too, and while it is great for a > user perspective, it's to shalow for my needs. I am not talking about > the man page for a perticular application, thatis way to specific, > tough it's somewhat sometimes usefull to figure outthe configuration > options and the configuration files that shouldfollow, but there not > always acurate. > > I need something in the middle. > > more like on the lines of , > the basic core system is the kernel and this and that file, this > configuration and that setting. for the modules you need to include > this nad configure that, and here are some options. if you want to > add networking to the core system, you need to add these files, and > configura this and that. if you want IPV6 then you need this and that, > and you need to configure this and that file. > > Mainly the information would not leave the scope of the core system, > I do not need more info on how to install samba or Xorg, That info > is available all over the place, and BSD makes it really painless to > install them anyways. > > I'm sure, or at least i hope i'm not the only one who would like such > documentation. We'd love to have such documenation, but creating it would be a massive task and keeping it up to date would be nearly as much work so no one has done it. -- Brooks > > Thank you Nathan. > > Sandro Noel. > > From: "Nathan Littlepage" > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:56:00 +0000 > To: "Sandro Noel" > Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system > > Try here for a good break down on building your own small version of > FreeBSD. > > https://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html > > Hope that gets you what you're looking for. > > > > Sandro Noel wrote: > > Greetings Embedded Gurus. > > > > > > I'm trying to build a system, so this is a brain dump of my needs and > > questions. > > > > For the past 3 month i have been scratching the net and book stores to > > collect as much information as possible about the FreeBSD system, tough > > the amount of information is quite satisfactory, and repeated many > > times in all kinds of format, i'm still missing some information to > > make me completely comfortable with what i want to achieve. > > > > So far PicoBSD configuration and building it, makes it easy to build a > > system, but i need more than that > > the information i would really need to understand it all is: > > > > I got myself Embedded FreeBSD cookbook it's good if you want to build > > a firewall. and some drivers ( not my wish at this time ) > > > > -What files are needed to build a bare system. > > the kernel and it's modules, > > configuration files, > > start-up scripts > > what else am i forgetting. > > > > What files are needed for WLAN networking to work, with or without > > DHCP client. > > what are the files involved into video and sound output. > > > > - and then there would be the explanation of what are the files in the > > /bin and /sbin directories what are they used for. > > yes i know the meaning of the directory structure, and of course i > > know about the ones i use, > > in a regular shell, but i want to know about the ones the system > > can't live without. > > the ones that make it tick, and why. > > > > I found that LDD is a magical tool.. :) to find lib dependencies. > > I know i can find application dependencies into the port makefile, > > witch is a BIG THAKNK YOU THE BSD team. > > > > Yes i know i could use some else's efforts and copy their thing like > > everyone else is doing, but i like to understand what i do before > > getting into it. > > this way, I know where my are mistakes when they happen, and it's much > > faster to fix. > > > > Thank you for any help you fine people can provide. > > > > Sandro Noel > > snoel@gestosoft.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 ----=_vm_0022_H102381175027410_19842_1126211164 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDIG4HXY6L6fI4GtQRAucpAKCsVkSFwTu/YTXZSty9hvn0LxkNCwCfcVeM 8qGdKae77FkstcYfdTte1ao= =JqtR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----=_vm_0022_H102381175027410_19842_1126211164-- ----=_vm_0011_W1044516538_19842_1126211164-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 20:42:02 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B3D16A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:42:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com [216.109.112.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FFB643D45 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:42:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from guest-157.lobby.yahoo.com.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout1-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id j88KfgC4011852; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: "Sandro Noel." In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.12.2 (99 Luftballons) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.3.50 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.1.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:42:02 -0000 At Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:26:04 +0000, Sandro Noel. wrote: > > Hey Brooks, thanks for leting me know i'm not the only one :) > i was starting to feel kind 0f weird. Well, you are weird, but we like your kind of wierd. There are several of us interested in being in the more embedded space and yes, you're right, this is an important step. If there is specific help you want let us know and you're always welcome to send questions to this list or me directly and I'll help if I can. Later, George From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 20:54:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5122816A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:54:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE73843D46 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:54:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j88KsSTi031500; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:54:28 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0/Submit) id j88KsSgL031499; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:54:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:54:28 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: "Sandro Noel." Message-ID: <20050908205428.GA28685@odin.ac.hmc.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=8.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:54:29 -0000 --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 08:26:04PM +0000, Sandro Noel. wrote: > Hey Brooks, thanks for leting me know i'm not the only one :)=20 > i was starting to feel kind 0f weird. >=20 > There must be a way for me to find out,=20 > somehow the relations between the files -> functionality relating to syst= em=20 > -> dependencies ( config files libraries or other programs ) > I might have a look at the source, but then again it's so easy to skip so= mething in there. There's no easy way to do this. You will indeed need to analyze the source of each component as well as understanding it's config files. It might be possible to use the audit framework (once committed) to create a partial dependency graph of config files, but it would only report files a program touches, not logical groups (such as the resolver) or files realted to features not currently activated. -- Brooks > If I can find that, I will build such documentation.=20 > This would be highly valuable information to any embedded developper tryi= ng his hands at FreeBSD. > not to mention, teching a much better unerstanding for everyone involved. >=20 > cheers. >=20 > Sandro Noel. >=20 > From: "Brooks Davis" > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:59:00 +0000 > To: "Sandro Noel." > Cc: "Nathan Littlepage" , freebsd-small@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system >=20 > [Please don't top post or use lines longer than 78 characters.] >=20 > On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 03:41:28PM +0000, Sandro Noel. wrote: > > Nathan, > > thank you for the pointer, unfortunately, it does not help me. and > > i've tried it, the scripts are great, and i actualy use the mklibs.pl > > script the one that walks the tree and pick's up the libraries on the > > way, it's a very nice script to have :) > > > > You see my ultimate goal is to build my system; sleek, slim, and > > polished, with strictly only what is needed to fill the task. but I > > also do not want to forget anything, in the sense that i couldforget > > a configuration file that would cause the system to work ondefault > > values, and notice it later when i bump into a problem, so ineed to > > understand it as much as possible. > > > > what i need are pointers to hard to find documentation about the > > building blocks of the system.(maybe it does not exist) Not the > > architecture, i've read it, and it helps in understanding theinner > > mecanics, but then again that is way to deep for my needs. and it's > > not the handbook either, read that too, and while it is great for a > > user perspective, it's to shalow for my needs. I am not talking about > > the man page for a perticular application, thatis way to specific, > > tough it's somewhat sometimes usefull to figure outthe configuration > > options and the configuration files that shouldfollow, but there not > > always acurate. > > > > I need something in the middle. > > > > more like on the lines of , > > the basic core system is the kernel and this and that file, this > > configuration and that setting. for the modules you need to include > > this nad configure that, and here are some options. if you want to > > add networking to the core system, you need to add these files, and > > configura this and that. if you want IPV6 then you need this and that, > > and you need to configure this and that file. > > > > Mainly the information would not leave the scope of the core system, > > I do not need more info on how to install samba or Xorg, That info > > is available all over the place, and BSD makes it really painless to > > install them anyways. > > > > I'm sure, or at least i hope i'm not the only one who would like such > > documentation. >=20 > We'd love to have such documenation, but creating it would be a massive > task and keeping it up to date would be nearly as much work so no one > has done it. >=20 > -- Brooks >=20 > >=20 > > Thank you Nathan. > >=20 > > Sandro Noel. > >=20 >=20 > > From: "Nathan Littlepage" > > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:56:00 +0000 > > To: "Sandro Noel" > > Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system > >=20 > > Try here for a good break down on building your own small version of=20 > > FreeBSD. > >=20 > > https://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html > >=20 > > Hope that gets you what you're looking for. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Sandro Noel wrote: > > > Greetings Embedded Gurus. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > I'm trying to build a system, so this is a brain dump of my needs and= =20 > > > questions. > > >=20 > > > For the past 3 month i have been scratching the net and book stores = to=20 > > > collect as much information as possible about the FreeBSD system, to= ugh=20 > > > the amount of information is quite satisfactory, and repeated many= =20 > > > times in all kinds of format, i'm still missing some information to= =20 > > > make me completely comfortable with what i want to achieve. > > >=20 > > > So far PicoBSD configuration and building it, makes it easy to build = a=20 > > > system, but i need more than that > > > the information i would really need to understand it all is: > > >=20 > > > I got myself Embedded FreeBSD cookbook it's good if you want to bui= ld=20 > > > a firewall. and some drivers ( not my wish at this time ) > > >=20 > > > -What files are needed to build a bare system. > > > the kernel and it's modules, > > > configuration files, > > > start-up scripts > > > what else am i forgetting. > > >=20 > > > What files are needed for WLAN networking to work, with or witho= ut=20 > > > DHCP client. > > > what are the files involved into video and sound output. > > >=20 > > > - and then there would be the explanation of what are the files in t= he=20 > > > /bin and /sbin directories what are they used for. > > > yes i know the meaning of the directory structure, and of course = i=20 > > > know about the ones i use, > > > in a regular shell, but i want to know about the ones the system = =20 > > > can't live without. > > > the ones that make it tick, and why. > > >=20 > > > I found that LDD is a magical tool.. :) to find lib dependencies. > > > I know i can find application dependencies into the port makefile, = =20 > > > witch is a BIG THAKNK YOU THE BSD team. > > >=20 > > > Yes i know i could use some else's efforts and copy their thing like = =20 > > > everyone else is doing, but i like to understand what i do before =20 > > > getting into it. > > > this way, I know where my are mistakes when they happen, and it's mu= ch=20 > > > faster to fix. > > >=20 > > > Thank you for any help you fine people can provide. > > >=20 > > > Sandro Noel > > > snoel@gestosoft.com > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-small@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-small > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-small-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 > --=20 > Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. > PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 >=20 --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDIKUDXY6L6fI4GtQRAnB5AJsEMdfClV7JFmtIBg9pxqcMnBSbkQCgs8FN cWD+9PU1yMHrzpxOqTeOjQg= =HZ3I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 22:28:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAD616A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:28:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from toq7-srv.bellnexxia.net (toq7-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D74943D45 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:28:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from [10.0.5.52] ([69.159.107.216]) by tomts40-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050908220101.JSYQ1799.tomts40-srv.bellnexxia.net@[10.0.5.52]>; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:01:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sandro Noel Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:00:45 -0400 To: "George V. Neville-Neil" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:28:38 -0000 On Sep 08, 2005, at 1:42 PM, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > Doxygen George I second that. I've just had a look at it quickly, and i was going to propose building a database to organize the information but this seems right. I was thinking of - let me know if you share this vue - organizing the base system into features, something like Starting point is from source CVS whatever branch. to boot the really bare minimum system you need [ information here ] ( at this point the system does nothing useful ) to control multiple user you need [ passwd useradd .... whatever ] to boot to a shell you need [ information here ] to add networking to the system you need [ information here ] to add this and that feature to your system ........ and so on, for the main features, and those main features would be sub devided into Kernel options to include ( if apply ) Kernel modules to load at init ( if apply and if the kernel does not do it on itself) executables to include ( and why, what is the use ) Libraries to include ( and why ) configuration files to adjust (with links to man pages if apply) dependencies ( on other features, or on anything else ) links that need to be changed or updated devices nodes that need to be created if devfs does not do it. now, i guess this brings a question, is it possible to devide the system into smaller blocks like that, while still keeping it functional. as an example. is it possible to boot the system to a shell without any user files on the system. or any groups for that matter. if breaking the system into smaller parts is possible without rendering the system unusable then, i think this just might work... Sandro Noel snoel@gestosoft.com From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 22:50:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F96916A41F for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:50:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E0443D48 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:50:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from snoel@gestosoft.com) Received: from [10.0.5.52] ([69.159.107.216]) by tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050908225038.RKPP16985.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@[10.0.5.52]>; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:50:38 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sandro Noel Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:50:22 -0400 To: George V. Neville-Neil X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:50:40 -0000 On Sep 08, 2005, at 1:42 PM, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > > And if it were to be done I would strongly recommend Doxygen and some > relatively rigorous standards. I would also be willing to help. > > Later, > George > > after having a better look at doxygen, it seems that this tool does wonders for generating documentation from source code, but i wonder if it would be helpfull in a situation where there is no code at all .... Sandro Noel snoel@gestosoft.com From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 9 02:44:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53AD116A41F for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 02:44:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout2-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (mrout2-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com [216.109.112.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD01C43D49 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 02:44:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from guest-157.lobby.yahoo.com.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout2-b.corp.dcn.yahoo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id j892iKWj012511; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:11:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: gnn@neville-neil.com To: Sandro Noel In-Reply-To: References: <20050908165951.GE31354@odin.ac.hmc.edu> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.12.2 (99 Luftballons) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.3.50 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.1.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tree essentials UNDERSTANDING the system X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 02:44:37 -0000 At Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:00:45 -0400, Sandro Noel wrote: > I've just had a look at it quickly, and i was going to propose > building a database to organize the information but this seems > right. It's not original to me, I have seen whole RTOSs shipped with the kernel APIs and docs in the code and then extracted by a similar method. > I was thinking of - let me know if you share this vue - organizing > the base system into features, something like Yes, that's correct approach. BTW You should use global and cscope to look around the kernel for the module declarations to get an idea of the system startup order. This is what I did to write the chapter on system startup in the latest "Design and Implementation" book. To find those tools just start at www.codespelunking.org Using the parts of the tools that allow you to "find all functions calling X" look for: SYSINIT which will get you lines like this: SYSINIT(domain_ ## name, SI_SUB_PROTO_DOMAIN, SI_ORDER_SECOND, net_add_domain, & name ## domain) This lets you know what is being started, the protocol domains, where it should go (SECOND), how it is started (net_add_domain()) etc. Until you understand the startup sequence you have very little chance of understanding the dependencies in the system. It is not perfect but it is a good overall start, at least in my opinion. We ought to generate a map somehow... Hmmm. Have to think about that. > now, i guess this brings a question, is it possible to devide the > system into smaller blocks like that, while still keeping it > functional. as an example. is it possible to boot the system to a > shell without any user files on the system. or any groups for that > matter. It is hard but not impossible. It requires something most of us hate, work ;-) Of course work is easier when shared. Later, George