From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 21 20:57:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4FE16A420 for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:57:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matt@iXsystems.com) Received: from knight.iXsystems.com (knight.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2569A43D6A for ; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:57:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from matt@iXsystems.com) Received: from [192.168.1.197] (drawbridge.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.65]) by knight.iXsystems.com (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k1LKrsuX032538; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:53:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@iXsystems.com) Message-ID: <43FB7EA3.2080301@iXsystems.com> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:57:07 -0800 From: Matt Olander User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Macintosh/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: linuxworld@iXsystems.com Subject: LinuxWorld Boston X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:57:17 -0000 Hi, As part of our FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld Boston this year, we received 100 free passes to the show. The show is scheduled for April 3-6 at the Boston Convention and Expo Center. If anybody is interested in having some passes mailed to them, please send an email with your address to linuxworld at ixsystems dot com. The pass allows access to: * Keynote Addresses * Feature Presentation * 3 Day Exhibit Hall * BoF Meetings This appears to be different than the free passes available on the LinuxWorld website, which do not mention access to BoF meetings. More information on the show can be found at http://www.linuxworldexpo.com We will also have a booth for FreeBSD at the LinuxWorld show in San Francisco this year. As that show draws near, I will post more information. Cheers, -matt -- Matt Olander CTO, iXsystems - "Servers for Open Source" http://www.iXsystems.com Public Relations, The FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org Phone: (408)943-4100 ext. 113 Fax: (408)943-4101 -- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 08:53:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE81216A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:53:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net) Received: from mailgate.cesmail.net (mailgate.cesmail.net [216.154.195.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 57B9443D4C for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:53:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net) Received: (qmail 11571 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 08:53:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO delta.cesmail.net) (192.168.1.30) by mailgate.cesmail.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 08:53:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27415 invoked by uid 99); 24 Feb 2006 08:53:11 -0000 Received: from i02v-87-89-157-8.d4.club-internet.fr (i02v-87-89-157-8.d4.club-internet.fr [87.89.157.8]) by webmail.spamcop.net (Horde) with HTTP for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:53:11 +0100 Message-ID: <20060224095311.egbk0ss0o888sgo0@webmail.spamcop.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:53:11 +0100 From: Gilbert Fernandes To: advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs Cc: Subject: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:53:13 -0000 Does anyone have a contact at BSD Mall ? Ordered FreeBSD from them November 5th 2005 and we are almost at the end of February 2006. 3 monthes and they don't even have in 2 monthes answered any emails asking for explanations. I strongly suggest people to avoid ordering from them. I don't know how they did serve any other members of FreeBSD around but they just take money, dont send anything and don't care afterwards. -- unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; find ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; fsck ; umount ; sleep From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 12:22:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDEB316A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:22:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly01.isp.novis.pt (mailrly01.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.211]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002BA43D45 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:22:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 16996 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 12:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly01.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 12:22:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 30656 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 12:22:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.224]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 12:22:11 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OCM5GD003693; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:22:06 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OCM52U003692; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:22:05 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:22:05 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602241222.k1OCM52U003692@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: advocacy@freebsd.org, gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net In-Reply-To: <20060224095311.egbk0ss0o888sgo0@webmail.spamcop.net> Cc: Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:22:16 -0000 > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Fri Feb 24 08:55:23 2006 > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:53:11 +0100 > From: Gilbert Fernandes > To: advocacy@freebsd.org > Cc: > Subject: BSD Mall : to hell > > Does anyone have a contact at BSD Mall ? > > Ordered FreeBSD from them November 5th 2005 and we are almost > at the end of February 2006. > > 3 monthes and they don't even have in 2 monthes answered any emails > asking for explanations. > > I strongly suggest people to avoid ordering from them. I don't know how > they did serve any other members of FreeBSD around but they just take > money, dont send anything and don't care afterwards. Can't you cancel your payment somehow? Don't order CDs... They're always way out of date. Nowadays I never receive a new version CD before the next one is out. Anyway, mine is from freebsdmall, not BSD Mall. Downloading the base system is only a few hundred MB, and then only install the ports you need. It's much more ecological. Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's dishonesty. Miguel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 12:33:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F8716A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:33:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from m21.unixathome.org (m21.unixathome.org [205.150.199.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CF943D48 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:33:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [205.150.199.217]) by m21.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B46C378; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from m21.unixathome.org ([205.150.199.217]) by localhost (m21.unixathome.org [205.150.199.217]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08146-06; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [70.26.229.230]) by m21.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853F7C371; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.55.0.99] (wocker.unixathome.org [10.55.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50391B853; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43FEB6CF.31317.2E7A826E@dan.langille.org> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <200602241222.k1OCM52U003692@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> References: <20060224095311.egbk0ss0o888sgo0@webmail.spamcop.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.31) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at unixathome.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:33:39 -0000 On 24 Feb 2006 at 12:22, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's > dishonesty. This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. There is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. -- Dan Langille : Software Developer looking for work my resume: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 12:45:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2905416A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly03.isp.novis.pt (mailrly03.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.213]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B1743D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 30483 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 12:45:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.197]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly03.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 12:45:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 14651 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 12:45:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.224]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 12:45:37 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OCjWiE003815; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:32 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OCjWR5003814; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:32 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:32 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: dan@langille.org, miguel@anjos.strangled.net In-Reply-To: <43FEB6CF.31317.2E7A826E@dan.langille.org> Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:41 -0000 > From dan@langille.org Fri Feb 24 12:33:48 2006 > From: "Dan Langille" > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > > On 24 Feb 2006 at 12:22, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's > > dishonesty. > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. There > is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. How can it be explained that Red Hat EL sells for a price comparable to some versions of Windows? At least, at Microsoft they had the costs of producing themselves a new, modern OS from scratch. What about some versions of linux totally based on free and GPLed software selling for $40-50? The price of media? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 13:46:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E7116A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stucchi@willystudios.com) Received: from hoover.willystudios.com (hoover.willystudios.com [62.123.150.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 83A9243D49 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stucchi@willystudios.com) Received: (qmail 32912 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 13:46:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO max.willystudios.com) (193.25.178.163) by hoover.willystudios.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 13:46:01 -0000 Received: by max.willystudios.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9A60BB2F; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:52:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:52:29 +0100 From: Massimiliano Stucchi To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: <20060224135229.GG56780@willystudios.com> References: <43FEB6CF.31317.2E7A826E@dan.langille.org> <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OzxllxdKGCiKxUZM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-STABLE X-URL: http://www.willystudios.com/max/ X-Organization: WillyStudios.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stucchi@willystudios.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:05 -0000 --OzxllxdKGCiKxUZM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 240206, 12:45, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > From dan@langille.org Fri Feb 24 12:33:48 2006 > > From: "Dan Langille" > > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 > > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > > > > On 24 Feb 2006 at 12:22, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's > > > dishonesty.=20 > > > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. There=20 > > is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. >=20 > Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. >=20 > How can it be explained that Red Hat EL sells for a price comparable to s= ome > versions of Windows? At least, at Microsoft they had the costs of produci= ng > themselves a new, modern OS from scratch. New, yes Modern, maybe =46rom scratch, not really... > What about some versions of linux totally based on free and GPLed software > selling for $40-50? The price of media? You often get the CD's, printed manuals, reference sheets and some kind of technical support for installation and setup. This is what sums up to the price they get to. Ciao --=20 Massimiliano Stucchi WillyStudios.com stucchi@willystudios.com Http://www.willystudios.com/max/ --OzxllxdKGCiKxUZM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFD/w+dFwcpJfdZDoERAsCSAJkBcPqTNrHwn5uvJfK3QVJ/92otHwCfdF1T xUcNbJYx7KX3YIe5v5TG+pA= =JT00 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OzxllxdKGCiKxUZM-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 13:46:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB93B16A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from aaronvan@comcast.net) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0E543D49 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from aaronvan@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-71-198-150-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[71.198.150.17]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060224134628m11009s46pe>; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:28 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.1.051004 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:44:40 -0800 From: Aaron VanAlstine To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 135, Issue 2 Thread-Index: AcY5SHWYtFUm1aU7EdqYTgAFAmHJOg== In-Reply-To: <20060224120016.6473116A428@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 135, Issue 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:46:30 -0000 I ordered 6.0 in November as well, and hadn't received it by mid-January. However, they replied to my email inquiry the same day and three days later I received my CD set. On 2/24/06 4:00, "freebsd-advocacy-request@freebsd.org" wrote: > Send freebsd-advocacy mailing list submissions to > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > freebsd-advocacy-request@freebsd.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > freebsd-advocacy-owner@freebsd.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of freebsd-advocacy digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. BSD Mall : to hell (Gilbert Fernandes) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:53:11 +0100 > From: Gilbert Fernandes > Subject: BSD Mall : to hell > To: advocacy@freebsd.org > Message-ID: <20060224095311.egbk0ss0o888sgo0@webmail.spamcop.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > Does anyone have a contact at BSD Mall ? > > Ordered FreeBSD from them November 5th 2005 and we are almost > at the end of February 2006. > > 3 monthes and they don't even have in 2 monthes answered any emails > asking for explanations. > > I strongly suggest people to avoid ordering from them. I don't know how > they did serve any other members of FreeBSD around but they just take > money, dont send anything and don't care afterwards. > > -- > unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; find ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; > fsck ; umount ; sleep > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > End of freebsd-advocacy Digest, Vol 135, Issue 2 > ************************************************ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 14:53:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E5C16A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:53:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4835A43D5E for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:53:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=grokwell.org) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1FCeJ6-0001op-2A; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:52:32 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:53:03 -0600 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: <20060224085303.1f326038@grokwell.org> In-Reply-To: <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> References: <43FEB6CF.31317.2E7A826E@dan.langille.org> <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.100 (GTK+ 2.8.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc5336918a65da0e748fb1f41d8f33cf5d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:53:29 -0000 On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:32 GMT Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > From dan@langille.org Fri Feb 24 12:33:48 2006 > > From: "Dan Langille" > > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 > > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > > > > On 24 Feb 2006 at 12:22, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's > > > dishonesty. > > > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. > > There is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. > > Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. > > How can it be explained that Red Hat EL sells for a price comparable > to some versions of Windows? At least, at Microsoft they had the > costs of producing themselves a new, modern OS from scratch. > What about some versions of linux totally based on free and GPLed > software selling for $40-50? The price of media? > _______________________________________________ I don't think it can accurately be said that Red Hat is simply in the CD packing business: 1. Remember that Linux is just the kernel. Red Hat has to assemble the OS and create processes for installation and maintenance. 2. When you buy Red Hat EL, you're also buying support and accountability. These things are impossible to provide without payroll expenses. 3. Red Hat employs many open source developers, many of whom work on projects other than Linux (postgresql, for example). Andrew Gould From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 15:42:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E86A16A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:42:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from liamfoy@sepulcrum.org) Received: from moutvdomng.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E371843D45 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:42:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from liamfoy@sepulcrum.org) Received: from [212.227.126.224] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FCf4T-0002gy-00; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:41:29 +0100 Received: from host86-130-143-66.range86-130.btcentralplus.com ([86.130.143.66] helo=localhost) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1FCf4T-0008S1-00; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:41:29 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:40:06 +0000 From: "Liam J. Foy" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: <20060224154006.GB639@nikita> References: <43FEB6CF.31317.2E7A826E@dan.langille.org> <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:42:15 -0000 On 12:45, Fri 24 Feb 06, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > From dan@langille.org Fri Feb 24 12:33:48 2006 > > From: "Dan Langille" > > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:33:35 -0500 > > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > > > > On 24 Feb 2006 at 12:22, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's > > > dishonesty. > > > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. There > > is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. > > Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. > I sell Open Source CDs myself and I consider myself honest. If someone would rather but it on CD than download and pay me a small charge, I'll be forever here. This 'CD Packing Business' you speak about also helps towards FreeBSD.org. I've also given donations to the NetBSD Foundation. It's a 'win win' situation for the projects in my opinion. -- Liam J. Foy From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 16:33:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64FF16A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:33:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D56B43D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:32:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AEAE20C6; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:32:50 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -2.4/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A19820C5; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:32:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 05D3033C4C; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:32:49 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos References: <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:32:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200602241245.k1OCjWR5003814@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> (Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos's message of "Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:45:32 GMT") Message-ID: <861wxspvim.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:33:00 -0000 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > Dan Langille writes: > > Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software > > > there's dishonesty. > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. > > There is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. > Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. The CD packing business funded FreeBSD development for years before the Internet killed it. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 19:49:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430B616A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:49:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net) Received: from mailgate.cesmail.net (mailgate.cesmail.net [216.154.195.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B9D3343D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:49:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net) Received: (qmail 20715 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 19:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gamma.cesmail.net) (192.168.1.20) by mailgate.cesmail.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 19:49:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6567 invoked by uid 99); 24 Feb 2006 19:49:02 -0000 Received: from i02v-87-89-157-8.d4.club-internet.fr (i02v-87-89-157-8.d4.club-internet.fr [87.89.157.8]) by webmail.spamcop.net (Horde) with HTTP for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:49:02 +0100 Message-ID: <20060224204902.yb3bqooo08c8gogk@webmail.spamcop.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:49:02 +0100 From: Gilbert Fernandes To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos References: <200602241222.k1OCM52U003692@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> In-Reply-To: <200602241222.k1OCM52U003692@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:49:04 -0000 > Can't you cancel your payment somehow? Payment has been done a few monthes ago. The California Department of Consumer Affairs replied me about the inquiry though : == Thank you for contacting the California Department of Consumer Affairs (Department) with your concerns. Although the information you provided indicates this is a business that does not require registration with any regulatory division within this Department, we can offer alternative options for further resolution of your complaint. Business and Professions Code Section 17509, which states that civil and criminal penalties may apply to any person engaged in unfair trade practices and for certain false or misleading advertising. A suspected false advertisement or misleading statements and business practices should be registered with the California Department of Justice, Office of the Attorney General (AG). If you have further questions or concerns regarding this matter, please contact the AG directly at the following address: Department of Justice Office of the Attorney General Public Inquiry Unit PO Box 944255 Sacramento, CA 94244-2550 (800) 952-5225 (in California) (916) 322-3360 Web site: http://www.caag.state.ca.us == Emailing the contact address at BSD Mall did get me an answer when I explained I was contacting the DJ for a public inquinry. Over the past two monthes I had sent requests but they did not get any answer (because there was no threat of inquiry ?). Don Witt of BSD Mall's shipping services (an external company it seems) answered me that "Your unit was shipped at the time you were charged" which I know isnt true. One month after the order the unit has not been shipped. They are sending me another set of CDs. > Don't order CDs... They're always way out of date. Nowadays I > never receive a new version CD before the next one is out. Well I got enough bandwidth to download FreeBSD in a few minutes. But I did order a set so I would keep it with me, with my OpenBSD and NetBSD sets. Usually newer versions are available of course but it's more to keep a part of history :) And I hoped that some part of the buying money would go to FreeBSD as organization but that's probably not the case :/ > Wherever there's people making money out of free software > there's dishonesty. Perhaps the best is to give money to organizations themselves and download and burn the old way. -Sigh- -- unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; find ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; fsck ; umount ; sleep From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 19:51:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0D916A424 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:51:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly08.isp.novis.pt (mailrly08.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9EA43D48 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:51:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 31784 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 19:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.227]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly08.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 19:51:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 411 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 19:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.124]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 19:51:10 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OJos41005841; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:50:55 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OJor36005840; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:50:53 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:50:53 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602241950.k1OJor36005840@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: algould@datawok.com, miguel@anjos.strangled.net In-Reply-To: <20060224085303.1f326038@grokwell.org> Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:51:13 -0000 > > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software there's > > > > dishonesty. > > > > > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. > > > There is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. > > > > Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. Ok, I'm sorry everyone, I went too far. > > How can it be explained that Red Hat EL sells for a price comparable > > to some versions of Windows? At least, at Microsoft they had the > > costs of producing themselves a new, modern OS from scratch. > > What about some versions of linux totally based on free and GPLed > > software selling for $40-50? The price of media? > > _______________________________________________ > > I don't think it can accurately be said that Red Hat is simply in the > CD packing business: > > 1. Remember that Linux is just the kernel. Red Hat has to assemble the > OS and create processes for installation and maintenance. Linux is just the kernel and there's a lot of GNU throughout the system and a lot of other things too. More of anything else than of RedHat's. I apreciate their effort in assembling the system and their own contribution to Linux. But... Windows NT, which was my comparison, was designed from scratch. > 2. When you buy Red Hat EL, you're also buying support and > accountability. These things are impossible to provide without payroll > expenses. Of course. And I suppose their expenses are greater than Microsoft's on a per-license basis, because the scale is smaller. Even so. At $179 per workstation, and $349 per server, it's a lot of money. To the potential buyer, confronting with buying Microsoft or Sun, it probably pays, but my point is that these prices are market driven, and have nothing to do with cost. It is this respect which I think it's contrary to the spirit of a lot of the software that is a component in their package. > 3. Red Hat employs many open source developers, many of whom work on > projects other than Linux (postgresql, for example). I don't think this argument applies. It's a bit like saying that Bill Gates getting richer and richer is good, since he gives a third of his fortune to charity. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 19:59:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059D416A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:59:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly01.isp.novis.pt (mailrly01.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.211]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23EA343D48 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:59:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 31333 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 19:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly01.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 19:59:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 9758 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 19:59:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.124]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 19:59:51 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OJxhNJ005873; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:59:44 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OJxgnO005872; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:59:42 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:59:42 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602241959.k1OJxgnO005872@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net, miguel@anjos.strangled.net In-Reply-To: <20060224204902.yb3bqooo08c8gogk@webmail.spamcop.net> Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:59:54 -0000 > From: Gilbert Fernandes > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > And I hoped that some part of the buying money would go to FreeBSD as > organization but that's probably not the case :/ I've only kept my subscription to FreeBSD CDs since 1995 in the belief that it does go... It is from FreeBSD Mall and I read that it went... sometime... If anyone knows any better, please tell. Miguel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 20:03:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B740316A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:03:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net) Received: from mailgate.cesmail.net (mailgate.cesmail.net [216.154.195.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2921D43D45 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:03:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gilbert.fernandes@spamcop.net) Received: (qmail 19733 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 20:03:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO delta.cesmail.net) (192.168.1.30) by mailgate.cesmail.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 20:03:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 19493 invoked by uid 99); 24 Feb 2006 20:03:41 -0000 Received: from i02v-87-89-157-8.d4.club-internet.fr (i02v-87-89-157-8.d4.club-internet.fr [87.89.157.8]) by webmail.spamcop.net (Horde) with HTTP for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:03:41 +0100 Message-ID: <20060224210341.j9qv7cwcok48sc0w@webmail.spamcop.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:03:41 +0100 From: Gilbert Fernandes To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos References: <200602241959.k1OJxgnO005872@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> In-Reply-To: <200602241959.k1OJxgnO005872@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:03:42 -0000 > I've only kept my subscription to FreeBSD CDs since 1995 in the > belief that it does go... It is from FreeBSD Mall and I read that it > went... sometime... That's what I thought too and that's why I posted about it on FreeBSD advocacy. I do give money from time to time to NetBSD and I wanted to do the same for FreeBSD since those are the two operating systems I use most. As it gets, I would like to only order NetBSD and FreeBSD stuff from stores that give money to the projects for each order. But it is probably much more efficient to directly give money to the projects :) Too bad the french financial services do not let me reduce my taxes by giving money to the BSD projects ! -- unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; find ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; fsck ; umount ; sleep From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 20:12:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB55916A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:12:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@pilchuck.reedmedia.net) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D2143D48 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:12:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@pilchuck.reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local (Exim 4.44) id 1FCjIU-00008r-N3; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:12:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:12:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos In-Reply-To: <200602241950.k1OJor36005840@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> Message-ID: References: <200602241950.k1OJor36005840@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:12:29 -0000 On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > 3. Red Hat employs many open source developers, many of whom work on > > projects other than Linux (postgresql, for example). > > I don't think this argument applies. It's a bit like saying that Bill Gates > getting richer and richer is good, since he gives a third of his fortune to > charity. Then your alternative is to pay the developers directly instead. Do you use gcc? Jeremy C. Reed technical support & remote administration http://www.pugetsoundtechnology.com/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 20:15:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BD716A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly08.isp.novis.pt (mailrly08.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B1643D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 26987 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 20:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly08.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 20:15:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14862 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 20:15:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.124]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 20:15:48 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OKFUkC005975; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:31 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OKFTRs005974; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:29 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:29 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602242015.k1OKFTRs005974@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: des@des.no, miguel@anjos.strangled.net In-Reply-To: <861wxspvim.fsf@xps.des.no> Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:52 -0000 > From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > Cc: dan@langille.org, advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:32:49 +0100 > > Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > > Dan Langille writes: > > > Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > > > > Wherever there's people making money out of free software > > > > there's dishonesty. > > > This is untrue. Many people make money out of free software. > > > There is a long history of it and all of it quite honest. > > Sorry. I meant in the CD packing business. > > The CD packing business funded FreeBSD development for years before > the Internet killed it. > > DES Well, FreeBSD CD packing funding FreeBSD development, that seems right... Obviously, I only think that it would be dishonest if FreeBSD CD packing didn't fund FreeBSD development or at least development of a similar project. That was also what I was talking about when I mentioned $40-50 CD sets of Linux and FreeBSD sold at corner shops which only fund the CD packer. I keep my subscription since 1995, even though it's not ecological. You seem to confirm my belief that the money I pay for my subscription goes to FreeBSD development. I'm relieved. I didn't know FreeBSD development was killed. Miguel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 20:54:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178F316A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly05.isp.novis.pt (mailrly05.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.215]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF9243D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 9866 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 20:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.196]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 20:54:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 30988 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 20:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.124]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 20:54:32 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OKsPZT006096; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:26 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OKsP3B006095; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:25 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:25 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602242054.k1OKsP3B006095@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: miguel@anjos.strangled.net, reed@reedmedia.net In-Reply-To: Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:36 -0000 > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:12:14 -0800 (PST) > From: "Jeremy C. Reed" > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > cc: algould@datawok.com, advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > > > 3. Red Hat employs many open source developers, many of whom work on > > > projects other than Linux (postgresql, for example). > > > > I don't think this argument applies. It's a bit like saying that Bill Gates > > getting richer and richer is good, since he gives a third of his fortune to > > charity. > > Then your alternative is to pay the developers directly instead. > > Do you use gcc? > > Jeremy C. Reed ;-) So, I now understand that the real reason why RedHat is more expensive than Debian is because it gives more money to open source projects... I just keep not understanding why the price of CDs sold unofficially in many stores that don't contribute to the projects is the same of those that do contribute... However funny it might seem, perhaps funding directly projects of which one depends directly would be better... Fact is that RedHat is a profit-driven company, traded in the stock market. Like every company, it must increase its revenues as much as possible and reduce its expenses as much as possible. It is a good thing for RedHat that most of the its prime matter it's free. Of course, RedHat funds several projects, but if it is a rational economic agent it will only do so in the measure that: a) is absolutely required to keep a project evolving to meet its clients needs, and b) it allows it to continue publicizing that it funds open source projects. Let's take gcc for example, how much of RedHat's money goes to gcc? Well, gcc was there long before RedHat existed, and it has evolved to meet RedHat's clients needs long ago (why should the quality of the compiler matter to RedHat back when Microsoft's compiler was very bad comparatively?), so I don't think gcc receives a lot because of a), and because of b) I suspect it receives only a quota of a global amount given to FSF. I'm really convinced that gcc owes very little of its existance to RedHat or similar fundings. But I'm just guessing, perhaps RedHat is more into Philanthropy. Miguel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 21:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE4116A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:15:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2A543D45 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:15:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED402083; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:15:04 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -2.4/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05BB02081; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:15:04 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CE08933C4C; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:15:03 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos References: <200602242015.k1OKFTRs005974@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:15:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200602242015.k1OKFTRs005974@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> (Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos's message of "Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:15:29 GMT") Message-ID: <86d5hco3vs.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:15:10 -0000 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav writes: > > The CD packing business funded FreeBSD development for years before > > the Internet killed it. > [...] > I keep my subscription since 1995, even though it's not ecological. > You seem to confirm my belief that the money I pay for my > subscription goes to FreeBSD development. I'm relieved. It depends where you buy it. > I didn't know FreeBSD development was killed. No, the CD packing business was. Walnut Creek CD-ROM spent a lot of money and time funding and promoting FreeBSD, which was their most profitable title for years. These days, however, it's faster and cheaper for most people to download and burn an ISO image than to order a CD from a packager. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 21:44:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCA5516A422 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:44:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF7743D6D for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:44:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=grokwell.org) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.34) id 1FCkjr-00073y-RS; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:44:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:45:15 -0600 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-ID: <20060224154515.2d6f8c7b@grokwell.org> In-Reply-To: <200602242054.k1OKsP3B006095@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> References: <200602242054.k1OKsP3B006095@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.100 (GTK+ 2.8.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc23d7600e7319bfe1569df8769e6bbe6b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:44:49 -0000 On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:25 GMT Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:12:14 -0800 (PST) > > From: "Jeremy C. Reed" > > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > > cc: algould@datawok.com, advocacy@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > > > On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos wrote: > > > > > > 3. Red Hat employs many open source developers, many of whom > > > > work on projects other than Linux (postgresql, for example). > > > > > > I don't think this argument applies. It's a bit like saying that > > > Bill Gates getting richer and richer is good, since he gives a > > > third of his fortune to charity. > > > > Then your alternative is to pay the developers directly instead. > > > > Do you use gcc? > > > > Jeremy C. Reed > > ;-) > > So, I now understand that the real reason why RedHat is more > expensive than Debian is because it gives more money to open source > projects... I just keep not understanding why the price of CDs sold > unofficially in many stores that don't contribute to the projects is > the same of those that do contribute... > > However funny it might seem, perhaps funding directly projects of > which one depends directly would be better... > > Fact is that RedHat is a profit-driven company, traded in the stock > market. Like every company, it must increase its revenues as much as > possible and reduce its expenses as much as possible. It is a good > thing for RedHat that most of the its prime matter it's free. > Of course, RedHat funds several projects, but if it is a rational > economic agent it will only do so in the measure that: a) is > absolutely required to keep a project evolving to meet its clients > needs, and b) it allows it to continue publicizing that it funds open > source projects. > > Let's take gcc for example, how much of RedHat's money goes to gcc? > Well, gcc was there long before RedHat existed, and it has evolved to > meet RedHat's clients needs long ago (why should the quality of the > compiler matter to RedHat back when Microsoft's compiler was very bad > comparatively?), so I don't think gcc receives a lot because of a), > and because of b) I suspect it receives only a quota of a global > amount given to FSF. I'm really convinced that gcc owes very little > of its existance to RedHat or similar fundings. But I'm just > guessing, perhaps RedHat is more into Philanthropy. > > Miguel 1. The developers who place their work under the BSD, MIT, and GPL* licenses allow for their work to be used in commercial products. If they don't mind, why should you. 2. Yes, Red Hat is a for-profit entity. In fact, the "E" in Red Hat EL stands for "Enterprise". You, as an individual, are not the targetted market for that product. 3. Red Hat has, historically, been a good player in the open source community. In fact, their operating system **is** available for free. If you don't want to pay for Red Hat EL, then download White Box Linux, or CentOS, both of which are free rebuilds of Red Hat EL -- RH logos have been stripped out, etc. Red Hat is okay with this. Now, enough about a Linux vendor, let's get back to focusing on FreeBSD Advocacy. Andrew From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 21:49:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B524616A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:49:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly04.isp.novis.pt (mailrly04.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85BD143D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:49:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 768 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 21:49:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.193]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly04.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 21:49:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 19261 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 21:49:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.124]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 21:49:00 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OLmlT2006300; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:48:47 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OLmjBn006299; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:48:45 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:48:45 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602242148.k1OLmjBn006299@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: des@des.no, miguel@anjos.strangled.net In-Reply-To: <86d5hco3vs.fsf@xps.des.no> Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:49:05 -0000 > From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, dan@langille.org > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:15:03 +0100 > > Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > > Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes: > > > The CD packing business funded FreeBSD development for years before > > > the Internet killed it. > > [...] > > I keep my subscription since 1995, even though it's not ecological. > > You seem to confirm my belief that the money I pay for my > > subscription goes to FreeBSD development. I'm relieved. > > It depends where you buy it. Well, this really is my point. It depends. On Debian website there's a wordwide list of CD sellers. On this list, there's only one seller listed for Portugal. Do you think that there's only one place in Portugal that sells Debian CDs? I ask for apology to all those that felt offended with my statement and I really didn't mean wherever. But there are many cases where I don't think it is very honest. There's a legal principle which forbids enrichment without cause. And given the price of some distributions, I really hope their contributions to open source development justifies. Anyway, my subscription was from Walnut Creek CD-ROM, and if I recall, was automatically upgraded to FreeBSD Mall... It's from FreeBSD Mall now and I wish it was more useful to me. If anyone has any specific data like the amount of revenues that really goes to FreeBSD development, I would really be interested in knowing it. Miguel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 22:00:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD84616A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:00:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572BA43D45 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:00:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125802096; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:00:12 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -2.4/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D99E2094; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:00:11 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 735DA33C4C; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:00:11 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos References: <200602242054.k1OKsP3B006095@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:00:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200602242054.k1OKsP3B006095@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> (Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos's message of "Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:54:25 GMT") Message-ID: <868xs0o1sk.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:00:17 -0000 Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos writes: > Let's take gcc for example, how much of RedHat's money goes to gcc? > Well, gcc was there long before RedHat existed, and it has evolved > to meet RedHat's clients needs long ago (why should the quality of > the compiler matter to RedHat back when Microsoft's compiler was > very bad comparatively?), so I don't think gcc receives a lot > because of a), and because of b) I suspect it receives only a quota > of a global amount given to FSF. I'm really convinced that gcc owes > very little of its existance to RedHat or similar fundings. But I'm > just guessing, perhaps RedHat is more into Philanthropy. Yes, GCC is an excellent example. It had gotten completely bogged down in FSF politics and was going nowhere fast when Cygnus Solutions (one of the first companies to try to make money on Open Source) forked EGCS. In a short time, they made great improvements to the optimizer, brought the C++ frontend (which the FSF had neglected for years) up-to-date, and added a Java frontend. The FSF finally gave in, and EGCS became the official version of GCC. Cygnus has since been absorbed by RedHat, which continues to fund the development of GCC. RedHat has also made and continues to make many other contributions to Linux and GNU, such as LVM and the device mapper (their equivalent to GEOM), or GFS, originally a closed-source product, which was open- sourced when RedHat acquired Sistina. The PAM implementation used in most Linux distributions, Linux-PAM, was developed entirely within RedHat. I'm sure there are dozens or hundreds of other examples. More recently, both SuSE (now owned by Novell) and RedHat have invested a lot of effort into improving X, with compositing, 3D desktops, much improved hardware acceleration, etc. All of this work benefits not only Linux, but also BSD. I suppose the conclusion we can draw from this is that you were arguing out of ignorance... DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 24 22:05:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8197716A420 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:05:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly01.isp.novis.pt (mailrly01.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.211]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A10343D46 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:05:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 641 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 22:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.227]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly01.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 22:05:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 1271 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 22:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.anjos.strangled.net) ([87.196.202.124]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 22:05:38 -0000 Received: from compaq.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OM5Qdw006373; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:05:28 GMT (envelope-from miguel@compaq.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by compaq.anjos.strangled.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k1OM5Q9l006372; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:05:26 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:05:26 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200602242205.k1OM5Q9l006372@compaq.anjos.strangled.net> To: algould@datawok.com, miguel@anjos.strangled.net In-Reply-To: <20060224154515.2d6f8c7b@grokwell.org> Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:05:41 -0000 > Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:45:15 -0600 > From: "Andrew L. Gould" > To: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: BSD Mall : to hell > > 1. The developers who place their work under the BSD, MIT, and GPL* > licenses allow for their work to be used in commercial products. If > they don't mind, why should you. If I see one person on a public place getting money from another just because the first is "smarter" and the other is more believing, I mind, even though it's not my money. In this specific case, I mind if the enrichment of RedHat is greater than that of those who provide most of the value in RedHat's product. > 2. Yes, Red Hat is a for-profit entity. In fact, the "E" in Red Hat EL > stands for "Enterprise". You, as an individual, are not the targetted > market for that product. Well, you find it on consumer stores, side by side with Windows XP. > 3. Red Hat has, historically, been a good player in the open source > community. In fact, their operating system **is** available for free. > If you don't want to pay for Red Hat EL, then download White Box Linux, > or CentOS, both of which are free rebuilds of Red Hat EL -- RH logos > have been stripped out, etc. Red Hat is okay with this. It's a pitty that there isn't a notice on this consumer stores saying that White Box Linux, being the same thing, is available for download at no charge. Don't you think there's someone playing the smart guy in this story? > Now, enough about a Linux vendor, let's get back to focusing on FreeBSD > Advocacy. > > Andrew Agree. And I'm sorry I argued so much. Miguel