From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 26 17:34:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D451A16A422 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:34:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asmrookie@gmail.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B31443D53 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:34:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asmrookie@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l8so780385nzf for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:34:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type; b=X9RAS3DjRL7H4Dzhd6Pm7aN3sb7qV3s4aLRugzXiWs1Ut1nTLX9Ulk2Pfv5sgTDqGAoTRtsXKCkm96mPiPNuUvkGIZetxzprxWtEJwRv4NlVwdDNQYT8L1yKRBEHfVud+cPETghO0awqeb1uEaC3QTlGltoCHZOStxJQAEk/eS0= Received: by 10.36.247.77 with SMTP id u77mr4564541nzh; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.41.11 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:34:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3bbf2fe10602260934g3a67b73by@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:34:50 +0100 From: "Attilio Rao" To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Optimized kernel copying functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: rookie@gufi.org List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:34:52 -0000 Hi, As suggested by Xin LI, I request here. Please refer to: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2006-February/015560.htm= l About further developments: - I'm working on dropping/undropping FPU and using mmx/xmm simd instructions. The code works fine (no PREEMPTION kernel), but mmx doesn't seem enough efficient so I think I need more work about them (I didn't try xmm simd instructions yet). - I planned to add some sysctl in order to enable/disable optimized copying functions You can get patch for FreeBSD-6.0 here: http://users.gufi.org/~rookie/fpu_overhaul.tar.gz and a patch for -current will be available ASAP (however they might be very poor changes since a lot of stable parts are modified). Thanks a lot, Attilio -- Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 26 22:02:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C485616A420; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:02:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from babkin@verizon.net) Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7808543D45; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:02:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from babkin@verizon.net) Received: from verizon.net ([141.153.249.11]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVB0007QEJCY6J3@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:02:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:02:00 -0500 From: Sergey Babkin Sender: root To: jkh@freebsd.org Message-id: <44022558.460E1BA1@verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE i386) Content-type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en, ru References: <12424860.1139921265521.JavaMail.root@vms169.mailsrvcs.net> <20060224193521.GA24121@samodelkin.net> <20060224213007.6x6dqzo4gw0sw0cg@webmail.spamcop.net> Cc: arch@freebsd.org, babkin@users.sf.net, Gilbert Fernandes , Max Khon Subject: Jordan, can you please comment? Re: [off-topic] NTFS, Apple and GPL vs LGPL (Was : NTFS write support) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: babkin@users.sf.net List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:02:04 -0000 Gilbert Fernandes wrote: > > In November, Apple has again tried to hijack Linux-NTFS code, this time by > suggesting {http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=13769046} > that it be licensed under the LGPL. This was promptly rejected by one main > developer, who threatened lawsuits. > > ----8>----8>----8>----8>----8>----8>----8> > > It is thus highly probable that Apple would like to see a BSD-based > implementation of NTFS. They asked twice the GPL-based project to adopt a > dual-licence so they (Apple) would be able to integrate this into MacOS X. > > Perhaps Apple would agree to give some support for the BSD-licence based > work ? Hm, we should probably ask Jordan Hubbard to comment on this. -SB From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 04:39:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09D216A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:39:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jkh@brierdr.com) Received: from mail.brierdr.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F7843D48; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:39:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jkh@brierdr.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.brierdr.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2E24E57FF; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.brierdr.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mini-gw [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28554-04; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (jkh99.queasyweasel.com [64.173.15.99]) by mail.brierdr.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527E94E57F0; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:39:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <44022558.460E1BA1@verizon.net> References: <12424860.1139921265521.JavaMail.root@vms169.mailsrvcs.net> <20060224193521.GA24121@samodelkin.net> <20060224213007.6x6dqzo4gw0sw0cg@webmail.spamcop.net> <44022558.460E1BA1@verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9FBC1834-39BD-4CC4-9914-37AE3A6F1963@brierdr.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:38:57 -0800 To: babkin@users.sf.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: arch@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org, Gilbert Fernandes , Max Khon Subject: Re: Jordan, can you please comment? Re: [off-topic] NTFS, Apple and GPL vs LGPL (Was : NTFS write support) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:39:02 -0000 I think it's fair to say that Apple is always interested in BSD licensed alternatives to any GPL'd code it may be or is considering using and, for appropriate projects, is also interested in figuring out how to support them. What did you guys have in mind? - Jordan On Feb 26, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Sergey Babkin wrote: > Gilbert Fernandes wrote: >> >> In November, Apple has again tried to hijack Linux-NTFS code, this >> time by >> suggesting {http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php? >> msg_id=13769046} >> that it be licensed under the LGPL. This was promptly rejected by >> one main >> developer, who threatened lawsuits. >> >> ----8>----8>----8>----8>----8>----8>----8> >> >> It is thus highly probable that Apple would like to see a BSD-based >> implementation of NTFS. They asked twice the GPL-based project to >> adopt a >> dual-licence so they (Apple) would be able to integrate this into >> MacOS X. >> >> Perhaps Apple would agree to give some support for the BSD-licence >> based >> work ? > > Hm, we should probably ask Jordan Hubbard to comment on this. > > -SB From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 08:38:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D3216A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:38:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (cell.sick.ru [217.72.144.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC09243D45; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:38:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (glebius@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1R8cFXO005056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:38:16 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id k1R8cFu2005055; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:38:15 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.sick.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:38:15 +0300 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: arch@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Cc: yar@FreeBSD.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:38:18 -0000 Colleagues, I'd like to replace the unpleasant one-for-all error code EINVAL to something else in this part of code of src/sys/net/if.c:ifhwioctl() case SIOCSIFCAP: error = suser(td); if (error) return (error); if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) return (EOPNOTSUPP); if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) return (EINVAL); IFF_LOCKGIANT(ifp); error = (*ifp->if_ioctl)(ifp, cmd, data); IFF_UNLOCKGIANT(ifp); if (error == 0) getmicrotime(&ifp->if_lastchange); break; The possible variants are: #define ENODEV 19 /* Operation not supported by device */ #define ENOTTY 25 /* Inappropriate ioctl for device */ #define ENOPROTOOPT 42 /* Protocol not available */ #define EPROTONOSUPPORT 43 /* Protocol not supported */ I prefer this variant: if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) return (ENOTTY); if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) return (ENODEV); Any objections? -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 09:04:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B296116A420 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:04:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: from c00l3r.networx.ch (c00l3r.networx.ch [62.48.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEBA43D53 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:04:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 7038 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2006 08:58:26 -0000 Received: from c00l3r.networx.ch (HELO freebsd.org) ([62.48.2.2]) (envelope-sender ) by c00l3r.networx.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 Feb 2006 08:58:26 -0000 Message-ID: <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:04:28 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gleb Smirnoff References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, yar@FreeBSD.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:04:23 -0000 Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > > Colleagues, > > I'd like to replace the unpleasant one-for-all error code > EINVAL to something else in this part of code of > src/sys/net/if.c:ifhwioctl() > > case SIOCSIFCAP: > error = suser(td); > if (error) > return (error); > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > return (EOPNOTSUPP); > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > return (EINVAL); > IFF_LOCKGIANT(ifp); > error = (*ifp->if_ioctl)(ifp, cmd, data); > IFF_UNLOCKGIANT(ifp); > if (error == 0) > getmicrotime(&ifp->if_lastchange); > break; > > The possible variants are: > > #define ENODEV 19 /* Operation not supported by device */ > #define ENOTTY 25 /* Inappropriate ioctl for device */ > #define ENOPROTOOPT 42 /* Protocol not available */ > #define EPROTONOSUPPORT 43 /* Protocol not supported */ > > I prefer this variant: > > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > return (ENOTTY); > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > return (ENODEV); > > Any objections? I don't think ENOTTY is appropriate here even though the comment to this error code would fit. But the define still says no TTY which is totally unrelated and confusing. -- Andre From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 09:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB1116A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:14:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BFF43D49; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:14:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1R9EIp9030766; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:14:18 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id k1R9EI6G030765; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:14:18 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:14:17 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Gleb Smirnoff Message-ID: <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:14:30 -0000 On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 11:38:15AM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > Colleagues, > > I'd like to replace the unpleasant one-for-all error code > EINVAL to something else in this part of code of > src/sys/net/if.c:ifhwioctl() > > case SIOCSIFCAP: > error = suser(td); > if (error) > return (error); > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > return (EOPNOTSUPP); > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > return (EINVAL); > IFF_LOCKGIANT(ifp); > error = (*ifp->if_ioctl)(ifp, cmd, data); > IFF_UNLOCKGIANT(ifp); > if (error == 0) > getmicrotime(&ifp->if_lastchange); > break; I'm afraid that this is a case when EINVAL is used properly: an argument to ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device. It's true that EINVAL may be abused in other places though. I wish each EINVAL being returned to the userland were accompanied by log(). -- Yar From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 09:34:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F382816A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:34:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (cell.sick.ru [217.72.144.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB2543D67; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:34:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (glebius@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1R9YWDN006553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:34:32 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id k1R9YVJv006552; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:34:31 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.sick.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:34:31 +0300 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Andre Oppermann , Yar Tikhiy Message-ID: <20060227093431.GX55275@cell.sick.ru> References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, yar@FreeBSD.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:34:51 -0000 Andre, Yar, On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 10:04:28AM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: A> > I prefer this variant: A> > A> > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) A> > return (ENOTTY); A> > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) A> > return (ENODEV); A> > A> > Any objections? A> A> I don't think ENOTTY is appropriate here even though the comment to this A> error code would fit. But the define still says no TTY which is totally A> unrelated and confusing. It contains a confusing word "tty", but it means "Inappropriate ioctl for device". This error code is used in many places throughout the kernel. We already have some ENOTTY returns in src/sys/net. Y> I'm afraid that this is a case when EINVAL is used properly: an Y> argument to ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device. It's Y> true that EINVAL may be abused in other places though. I wish each Y> EINVAL being returned to the userland were accompanied by log(). I don't agree. EINVAL can logically fit to almost any error condition. We should fine error codes fitting better. If "ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device", then we should say "Operation not supported by device", which is ENODEV. -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 09:45:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3445016A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:45:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C17B43D46; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:45:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1R9iw7x031191; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:44:59 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id k1R9iwRE031186; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:44:58 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:44:58 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Gleb Smirnoff Message-ID: <20060227094458.GH6435@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> <20060227093431.GX55275@cell.sick.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227093431.GX55275@cell.sick.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Andre Oppermann , jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:45:07 -0000 On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 12:34:31PM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > Andre, Yar, > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 10:04:28AM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: > A> > I prefer this variant: > A> > > A> > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > A> > return (ENOTTY); > A> > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > A> > return (ENODEV); > A> > > A> > Any objections? [...] > Y> I'm afraid that this is a case when EINVAL is used properly: an > Y> argument to ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device. It's > Y> true that EINVAL may be abused in other places though. I wish each > Y> EINVAL being returned to the userland were accompanied by log(). > > I don't agree. EINVAL can logically fit to almost any error condition. We > should fine error codes fitting better. If "ioctl doesn't make sense to a > particular device", then we should say "Operation not supported by device", > which is ENODEV. You see, it isn't ioctl itself that doesn't make sense to the device, it's a single argument, ifr_reqcap. That was my point. Of course, I won't insist on it because the traditional errno is getting very limited under the present conditions anyway. -- Yar From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 10:00:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC1916A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:00:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (cell.sick.ru [217.72.144.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D44E43D46; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:00:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (glebius@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1RA0Vpw007375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:00:32 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id k1RA0Veg007374; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:00:31 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.sick.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:00:31 +0300 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Yar Tikhiy Message-ID: <20060227100031.GY55275@cell.sick.ru> References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> <20060227093431.GX55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227094458.GH6435@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227094458.GH6435@comp.chem.msu.su> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Andre Oppermann , jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:00:50 -0000 On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 12:44:58PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: Y> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 10:04:28AM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: Y> > A> > I prefer this variant: Y> > A> > Y> > A> > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) Y> > A> > return (ENOTTY); Y> > A> > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) Y> > A> > return (ENODEV); Y> > A> > Y> > A> > Any objections? Y> [...] Y> > Y> I'm afraid that this is a case when EINVAL is used properly: an Y> > Y> argument to ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device. It's Y> > Y> true that EINVAL may be abused in other places though. I wish each Y> > Y> EINVAL being returned to the userland were accompanied by log(). Y> > Y> > I don't agree. EINVAL can logically fit to almost any error condition. We Y> > should fine error codes fitting better. If "ioctl doesn't make sense to a Y> > particular device", then we should say "Operation not supported by device", Y> > which is ENODEV. Y> Y> You see, it isn't ioctl itself that doesn't make sense to the device, Y> it's a single argument, ifr_reqcap. That was my point. Of course, Yes. The ioctl is correct, that's why we do not return ENOTTY. The argument is correct, that's why we do not return EINVAL. The argument is not applicable to this device, that's why I suggest to use ENODEV. Y> I won't insist on it because the traditional errno is getting very Y> limited under the present conditions anyway. -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 10:20:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6351116A422; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:20:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BE743D49; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:20:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1RAKUL3031795; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:20:30 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id k1RAKUMk031794; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:20:30 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:20:30 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Gleb Smirnoff Message-ID: <20060227102029.GK6435@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> <20060227093431.GX55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227094458.GH6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227100031.GY55275@cell.sick.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227100031.GY55275@cell.sick.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Andre Oppermann , jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:20:40 -0000 On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 01:00:31PM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 12:44:58PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > Y> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 10:04:28AM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Y> > A> > I prefer this variant: > Y> > A> > > Y> > A> > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > Y> > A> > return (ENOTTY); > Y> > A> > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > Y> > A> > return (ENODEV); > Y> > A> > > Y> > A> > Any objections? > Y> [...] > Y> > Y> I'm afraid that this is a case when EINVAL is used properly: an > Y> > Y> argument to ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device. It's > Y> > Y> true that EINVAL may be abused in other places though. I wish each > Y> > Y> EINVAL being returned to the userland were accompanied by log(). > Y> > > Y> > I don't agree. EINVAL can logically fit to almost any error condition. We > Y> > should fine error codes fitting better. If "ioctl doesn't make sense to a > Y> > particular device", then we should say "Operation not supported by device", > Y> > which is ENODEV. > Y> > Y> You see, it isn't ioctl itself that doesn't make sense to the device, > Y> it's a single argument, ifr_reqcap. That was my point. Of course, > > Yes. The ioctl is correct, that's why we do not return ENOTTY. The > argument is correct, that's why we do not return EINVAL. The argument > is not applicable to this device, that's why I suggest to use ENODEV. This interpretation sounds fair to me. Did you look at other cases when ENODEV was returned? How consistent were they with this one? > Y> I won't insist on it because the traditional errno is getting very > Y> limited under the present conditions anyway. -- Yar From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 10:25:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85AFB16A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:25:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (cell.sick.ru [217.72.144.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCA343D49; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:25:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (glebius@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1RAPdIj007805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:25:40 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.sick.ru (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id k1RAPdu7007804; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:25:39 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.sick.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:25:39 +0300 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Yar Tikhiy Message-ID: <20060227102539.GZ55275@cell.sick.ru> References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227091417.GF6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> <4402C09C.C3FB0064@freebsd.org> <20060227093431.GX55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227094458.GH6435@comp.chem.msu.su> <20060227100031.GY55275@cell.sick.ru> <20060227102029.GK6435@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227102029.GK6435@comp.chem.msu.su> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, Andre Oppermann , jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:25:49 -0000 On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 01:20:30PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: Y> > Y> > Y> I'm afraid that this is a case when EINVAL is used properly: an Y> > Y> > Y> argument to ioctl doesn't make sense to a particular device. It's Y> > Y> > Y> true that EINVAL may be abused in other places though. I wish each Y> > Y> > Y> EINVAL being returned to the userland were accompanied by log(). Y> > Y> > Y> > Y> > I don't agree. EINVAL can logically fit to almost any error condition. We Y> > Y> > should fine error codes fitting better. If "ioctl doesn't make sense to a Y> > Y> > particular device", then we should say "Operation not supported by device", Y> > Y> > which is ENODEV. Y> > Y> Y> > Y> You see, it isn't ioctl itself that doesn't make sense to the device, Y> > Y> it's a single argument, ifr_reqcap. That was my point. Of course, Y> > Y> > Yes. The ioctl is correct, that's why we do not return ENOTTY. The Y> > argument is correct, that's why we do not return EINVAL. The argument Y> > is not applicable to this device, that's why I suggest to use ENODEV. Y> Y> This interpretation sounds fair to me. Did you look at other cases Y> when ENODEV was returned? How consistent were they with this one? In network code only in if_setlladdr() if the device doesn't have link level address at all. In many places throughout the kernel, in most cases close to the description. AFAIK, EINVAL is a correct choice, when argument is incorrect, for example its length differs to the expected. -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 12:42:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8B916A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:42:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from babkin@verizon.net) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD8543D45; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:42:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from babkin@verizon.net) Received: from vms071.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.4]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVC00LIGJAUJ6I2@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:42:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:42:30 -0600 (CST) From: Sergey Babkin To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , babkin@users.sf.net Message-id: <22046313.1141044150281.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org, Gilbert Fernandes , Max Khon Subject: Re: Re: Jordan, can you please comment? Re: [off-topic] NTFS, Apple and GPL vs L X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: babkin@users.sf.net List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:42:31 -0000 >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" >I think it's fair to say that Apple is always interested in BSD >licensed alternatives to any GPL'd code it may be or is considering >using and, for appropriate projects, is also interested in figuring >out how to support them. What did you guys have in mind? Nothing in particular as of now, as there is no tangible code yet. But I'm looking at the idea of adding write NTFS support. So far I'm just reading whatever docs I can find. Linux-ntfs project has some docs which I suppose are fair to use. -SB >On Feb 26, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Sergey Babkin wrote: > >> Gilbert Fernandes wrote: >>> >>> In November, Apple has again tried to hijack Linux-NTFS code, this >>> time by >>> suggesting {http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php? >>> msg_id=13769046} >>> that it be licensed under the LGPL. This was promptly rejected by >>> one main >>> developer, who threatened lawsuits. >>> >>> ----8>----8>----8>----8>----8>----8>----8> >>> >>> It is thus highly probable that Apple would like to see a BSD-based >>> implementation of NTFS. They asked twice the GPL-based project to >>> adopt a >>> dual-licence so they (Apple) would be able to integrate this into >>> MacOS X. >>> >>> Perhaps Apple would agree to give some support for the BSD-licence >>> based >>> work ? >> >> Hm, we should probably ask Jordan Hubbard to comment on this. >> >> -SB From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 17:02:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4F716A420; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:02:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E11143D67; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:02:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5FECD.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.254.205]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k1RGkxki075846; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:47:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1RH1gNg042145; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:01:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:01:41 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: babkin@users.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <20060227180141.197a172d@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <22046313.1141044150281.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net> References: <22046313.1141044150281.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.0.0 (GTK+ 2.8.12; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: babkin@verizon.net, Gilbert Fernandes , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , arch@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org, Max Khon Subject: Re: Jordan, can you please comment? Re: [off-topic] NTFS, Apple and GPL vs L X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:02:04 -0000 Am Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:42:30 -0600 (CST) schrieb Sergey Babkin : > >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > >I think it's fair to say that Apple is always interested in BSD > >licensed alternatives to any GPL'd code it may be or is considering > >using and, for appropriate projects, is also interested in figuring > >out how to support them. What did you guys have in mind? > > Nothing in particular as of now, as there is no tangible code > yet. But I'm looking at the idea of adding write NTFS support. > So far I'm just reading whatever docs I can find. > Linux-ntfs project has some docs which I suppose are > fair to use. There are also people which would be happy to be able to read files from a NTFS partition which are larger than 4GB... I'm not one of them. Bye, Alexander. -- 0 and 1. Now what could be so hard about that? http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net GPG fingerprint = C518 BC70 E67F 143F BE91 3365 79E2 9C60 B006 3FE7 WL http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/registry/1FZ4DTHQE9PQ8/ref=wl_em_to/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 27 18:50:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAE516A423; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:50:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (gate.funkthat.com [69.17.45.168]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D17143D91; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:49:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (2k9rnes2wtrr3pxu@localhost.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k1RInoZI037898; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id k1RInomB037897; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:49:50 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Gleb Smirnoff Message-ID: <20060227184950.GK840@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Gleb Smirnoff , arch@FreeBSD.org, yar@FreeBSD.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org References: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060227083815.GW55275@cell.sick.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, yar@FreeBSD.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: changing EINVAL for SIOCSIFCAP to something else X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:50:04 -0000 Gleb Smirnoff wrote this message on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 11:38 +0300: > I'd like to replace the unpleasant one-for-all error code > EINVAL to something else in this part of code of > src/sys/net/if.c:ifhwioctl() > > case SIOCSIFCAP: > error = suser(td); > if (error) > return (error); > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > return (EOPNOTSUPP); > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > return (EINVAL); > IFF_LOCKGIANT(ifp); > error = (*ifp->if_ioctl)(ifp, cmd, data); > IFF_UNLOCKGIANT(ifp); > if (error == 0) > getmicrotime(&ifp->if_lastchange); > break; > > The possible variants are: > > #define ENODEV 19 /* Operation not supported by device */ > #define ENOTTY 25 /* Inappropriate ioctl for device */ > #define ENOPROTOOPT 42 /* Protocol not available */ > #define EPROTONOSUPPORT 43 /* Protocol not supported */ > > I prefer this variant: > > if (ifp->if_ioctl == NULL) > return (ENOTTY); > if (ifr->ifr_reqcap & ~ifp->if_capabilities) > return (ENODEV); > > Any objections? I'd prefer to keep EINVAL too because the rest of the kernel uses EINVAL to tell when the parameters passed are incorrect... To me, the real problem is that the errors that SIOCSIFCAP can return are not documented... Why not document them so that people will understand what could possibly be wrong when EINVAL is returned? This is an example of where more verbose error reporting from the kernel would be a good idea... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 28 05:51:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C989716A420 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:51:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.ntplx.net (mail.ntplx.net [204.213.176.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F7D43D45 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:51:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.ntplx.net (8.13.5/8.13.5/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id k1S5pmtj029330 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:51:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:51:48 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.ntplx.net) Cc: Subject: make tools question & symbol versioning X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: deischen@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:51:49 -0000 I'm working on symbol versioning for libc and have an awk script that needs to run (from libc/Makefile) in order to generate the symbol map file. It may also be applicable for symbol versioning other libraries. Where is the right place to put it? If anyone is interested in reviewing, the first shot at symbol versioning for libc at: http://people.freebsd.org/~deischen/symver/symver.diffs I was conservative in removing global symbols. I'm sure there are others that can be removed, but we can do that later. For those that don't know what symbol versioning is, there's a brief explanation at: http://people.freebsd.org/~deischen/symver/library_versioning.txt and you can find some other documents at: http://people.redhat.com/~drepper/symbol-versioning http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-4415/6mjum5she?a=view or google. -- DE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 28 06:23:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC87016A420; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 06:23:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Received: from ameno.mahoroba.org (gw4.mahoroba.org [218.45.22.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9A043D46; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 06:23:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Received: from localhost (IDENT:ZoWbnM/URKtsOyRe6Pj/RQaJvkaJ3dumOyrNNdEqccS4KaoiQLfpkL6gjxi2H2QK@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (user=ume mech=CRAM-MD5 bits=0) by ameno.mahoroba.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP/inet6 id k1S6NdLl080068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:23:39 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:23:39 +0900 Message-ID: From: Hajimu UMEMOTO To: deischen@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: xcite1.38> Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50 (i386-unknown-freebsd5.5) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.5-PRERELEASE X-PGP-Key: http://www.imasy.or.jp/~ume/publickey.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1F00 0B9E 2164 70FC 6DC5 BF5F 04E9 F086 BF90 71FE Organization: Internet Mutual Aid Society, YOKOHAMA MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.3 (ameno.mahoroba.org [IPv6:::1]); Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:23:40 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on ameno.mahoroba.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make tools question & symbol versioning X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 06:23:44 -0000 Hi, >>>>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:51:48 -0500 (EST) >>>>> Daniel Eischen said: eischen> I'm working on symbol versioning for libc and have an awk script eischen> that needs to run (from libc/Makefile) in order to generate the eischen> symbol map file. It may also be applicable for symbol versioning eischen> other libraries. Where is the right place to put it? eischen> If anyone is interested in reviewing, the first shot at symbol eischen> versioning for libc at: eischen> http://people.freebsd.org/~deischen/symver/symver.diffs eischen> I was conservative in removing global symbols. I'm sure there eischen> are others that can be removed, but we can do that later. It seems your diff includes the functions only for libc internal, such as gethostbyname_r. Do we need to target such symbols? Sincerely, -- Hajimu UMEMOTO @ Internet Mutual Aid Society Yokohama, Japan ume@mahoroba.org ume@{,jp.}FreeBSD.org http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 28 14:43:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573EC16A420; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:43:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.ntplx.net (mail.ntplx.net [204.213.176.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F212343D45; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:43:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.ntplx.net (8.13.5/8.13.5/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id k1SEhSqr012312; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: Hajimu UMEMOTO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.ntplx.net) Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make tools question & symbol versioning X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Eischen List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:43:30 -0000 On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Hajimu UMEMOTO wrote: > Hi, > > >>>>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:51:48 -0500 (EST) > >>>>> Daniel Eischen said: > > eischen> I'm working on symbol versioning for libc and have an awk script > eischen> that needs to run (from libc/Makefile) in order to generate the > eischen> symbol map file. It may also be applicable for symbol versioning > eischen> other libraries. Where is the right place to put it? > > eischen> If anyone is interested in reviewing, the first shot at symbol > eischen> versioning for libc at: > > eischen> http://people.freebsd.org/~deischen/symver/symver.diffs > > eischen> I was conservative in removing global symbols. I'm sure there > eischen> are others that can be removed, but we can do that later. > > It seems your diff includes the functions only for libc internal, such > as gethostbyname_r. Do we need to target such symbols? For that particular function, I thought it was suppose to be exported for use by applications. It doesn't begin with underscores, and it ends with "_r", so it certainly looked like it should. These functions should be renamed if they are internal interfaces. I'll remove gethostbyname_r. If you find others that shouldn't be there, please let me know. -- DE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 28 14:58:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB9616A488; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:58:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Received: from ameno.mahoroba.org (gw4.mahoroba.org [218.45.22.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2467443D48; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:58:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Received: from kasuga.mahoroba.org (IDENT:Ki1c/HIG7VC8p1YfAuKvhI6prOlTq4YI6egI0KzbSAkgVmNm92ta5/xJ8CNFZBNs@kasuga-iwi.mahoroba.org [IPv6:3ffe:501:185b:8010:212:f0ff:fe52:6ac]) (user=ume mech=CRAM-MD5 bits=0) by ameno.mahoroba.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP/inet6 id k1SEwjFF034007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:58:45 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:58:45 +0900 Message-ID: From: Hajimu UMEMOTO To: Daniel Eischen In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: xcite1.38> Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50 (i386-unknown-freebsd6.1) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.1-PRERELEASE X-PGP-Key: http://www.imasy.or.jp/~ume/publickey.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1F00 0B9E 2164 70FC 6DC5 BF5F 04E9 F086 BF90 71FE Organization: Internet Mutual Aid Society, YOKOHAMA MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.3 (ameno.mahoroba.org [IPv6:3ffe:501:185b:8010::1]); Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:58:45 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on ameno.mahoroba.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make tools question & symbol versioning X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:58:53 -0000 Hi, >>>>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0500 (EST) >>>>> Daniel Eischen said: deischen> For that particular function, I thought it was suppose to be exported deischen> for use by applications. It doesn't begin with underscores, and it deischen> ends with "_r", so it certainly looked like it should. deischen> These functions should be renamed if they are internal interfaces. No, they are already have __ prefix. Please refer libc/net/netdb_private.h. deischen> I'll remove gethostbyname_r. If you find others that shouldn't be deischen> there, please let me know. Please remove the functions listed in netdb_private.h. Sincerely, -- Hajimu UMEMOTO @ Internet Mutual Aid Society Yokohama, Japan ume@mahoroba.org ume@{,jp.}FreeBSD.org http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 28 15:06:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807A916A420; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:06:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.ntplx.net (mail.ntplx.net [204.213.176.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0868B43D4C; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:06:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.ntplx.net (8.13.5/8.13.5/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id k1SF6tRO006226; Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:06:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:06:55 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: Hajimu UMEMOTO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.ntplx.net) Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make tools question & symbol versioning X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Eischen List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:06:56 -0000 On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Hajimu UMEMOTO wrote: > Hi, > > >>>>> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0500 (EST) > >>>>> Daniel Eischen said: > > deischen> For that particular function, I thought it was suppose to be exported > deischen> for use by applications. It doesn't begin with underscores, and it > deischen> ends with "_r", so it certainly looked like it should. > > deischen> These functions should be renamed if they are internal interfaces. > > No, they are already have __ prefix. Please refer libc/net/netdb_private.h. Ok, I see that now. Personally, I don't like renaming things like that. It's just one more level of obfuscation. > deischen> I'll remove gethostbyname_r. If you find others that shouldn't be > deischen> there, please let me know. > > Please remove the functions listed in netdb_private.h. Will do. -- DE From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 17:03:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B4E16A423; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:03:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EFB43DA5; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:03:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1920) id 6ED881A4DCC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:03:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:03:06 +0100 From: Maxime Henrion To: arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: Subject: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:03:22 -0000 Hey all, I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, called csup-snap-20060301. You can grab it at http://mu.org/~mux/csup.html. This last snapshot finally brings in support for the refuse files, as well as the -i and -A options. At this point, csup is pretty much feature complete as far as checkout mode is concerned. To sum things up, besides CVS mode, the only features missing are : - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this), - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely used), - The -k and -d options and the "destDir" parameters that are more debugging features than real features, - An Xaw3d GUI (just kidding). So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed. For those interested in CVS mode, I'll now start working on this soon, but cannot guarantee that I'll ever have it finished. I've been unemployed for a few months now which allowed me to get this far, but I will soon need to get a new job for obvious reasons. If you would like to see CVS mode happening and can spare some money, please consider making a donation to my Paypal account (id mux@FreeBSD.org). I take advantage of this mail to thank Garance Drosehn that has generously donated me some money to help me on this task already. Cheers, Maxime From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 17:16:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4513916A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:16:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12DF43D46; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:16:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.50]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IVG003C6LAY7QD0@l-daemon>; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml5so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.149]) by pd4mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IVG00LCALAYGNN0@pd4mr5so.prod.shaw.ca>; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.60] ([24.82.18.31]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IVG0081RLAXKC00@l-daemon>; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:16:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:15:58 -0800 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> To: Maxime Henrion Message-id: <4405D6CE.5030809@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060112) Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:16:12 -0000 Maxime Henrion wrote: > So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that > our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare > install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the > matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed. Yes please! I'd love to see CVS mode and authentication support as well, but given the number of people who don't apply security fixes (over 60% of FreeBSD 6.0 systems running portsnap are still running 6.0-RELEASE) I'd say that anything which makes updating easier is great. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 17:51:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F8B16A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:51:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gabor.kovesdan@t-hosting.hu) Received: from server.t-hosting.hu (server.t-hosting.hu [217.20.133.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFDFA43D45; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:51:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gabor.kovesdan@t-hosting.hu) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server.t-hosting.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D526A997B2B; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:51:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from server.t-hosting.hu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.t-hosting.hu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 21979-04-2; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:51:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.2.186] (catv-5062e7e3.catv.broadband.hu [80.98.231.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by server.t-hosting.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693A19979E6; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:51:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4405DF0A.7080101@t-hosting.hu> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:51:06 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6vesd=E1n_G=E1bor?= User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Maxime Henrion References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> In-Reply-To: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at t-hosting.hu Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:51:18 -0000 Maxime Henrion wrote: > Hey all, > > >I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, called >csup-snap-20060301. You can grab it at http://mu.org/~mux/csup.html. >This last snapshot finally brings in support for the refuse files, as >well as the -i and -A options. At this point, >csup is pretty much feature complete as far as checkout mode is >concerned. To sum things up, besides CVS mode, the only features >missing are : > > - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this), > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely used), > - The -k and -d options and the "destDir" parameters that are > more debugging features than real features, > - An Xaw3d GUI (just kidding). > >So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that >our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare >install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the >matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed. > >For those interested in CVS mode, I'll now start working on this soon, >but cannot guarantee that I'll ever have it finished. I've been >unemployed for a few months now which allowed me to get this far, but I >will soon need to get a new job for obvious reasons. If you would like >to see CVS mode happening and can spare some money, please consider >making a donation to my Paypal account (id mux@FreeBSD.org). I take >advantage of this mail to thank Garance Drosehn that has generously >donated me some money to help me on this task already. > > > Thanks a lot, csup is very great: fast and lightweight. :) CVSup was a huge pain to install. I hope you'll get enough donation to implement the cvs mode, too. :) Regards, Gabor Kovesdan From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 18:20:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0B1116A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:20:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576CA43D49; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:20:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1920) id 28E621A4DD0; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:20:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:20:10 +0100 From: Maxime Henrion To: arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20060301182010.GB55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:20:10 -0000 Maxime Henrion wrote: [...] > So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that > our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare > install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the > matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed. Just so that people don't waste time reporting this: there is a use-after-free bug in the last snapshot that is already fixed in CVS. That will teach me to set malloc.conf to aj! Cheers, Maxime From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 19:31:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98AA16A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:31:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CCD43D5A; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:31:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21JV6MC064444; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:30:59 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Maxime Henrion References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> In-Reply-To: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:31:08 -0000 Maxime Henrion wrote: > Hey all, > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, [...] > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely used), Are you joking? Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 20:18:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B9216A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:18:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8994743D46; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:18:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gad@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k21KI8vJ006951; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:18:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:18:07 -0500 To: Maxime Henrion , arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org From: Garance A Drosehn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) on 128.113.2.3 Cc: Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:18:11 -0000 At 6:03 PM +0100 3/1/06, Maxime Henrion wrote: > >So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system >so that our users finally have a way to update their sources >with a bare install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem >reports on the matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a >bikeshed. I wonder if we should handle this more like perl (or X11?), where it remains a port, but a port which is always installed along with the base-system install. My hope is that with the new C-based implementation, 'csup' would be useful to other projects. (any cvs-based open-source project, not just operating systems). I would also be happy to see it as part of the freebsd base system, so I only mention the above alternative because I'm wondering what would be the best way to handle a project like this... Whether or not it goes into the base system, I hope more people can take the time to try it out, and make sure that it will be well-tested. >If you would like to see CVS mode happening and can spare some >money, please consider making a donation to my Paypal account >(id mux@FreeBSD.org). I take advantage of this mail to thank >Garance Drosehn that has generously donated me some money to >help me on this task already. I've contributed enough to keep him in caffeine, but certainly not enough to be mistaken for a full-time employer... :-) I have been very happy to see all the recent progress. Even though I do like to work with multiple computer languages (and in fact there is a lot I like about Modula-3), I do think a tool such as cvsup needs to be in a more universally-available and widely-known language. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@FreeBSD.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 20:24:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1D616A422; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:24:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02C643D48; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:24:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21KOr1T064794; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <4406030E.6020209@samsco.org> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:24:46 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosehn References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:24:56 -0000 Garance A Drosehn wrote: > At 6:03 PM +0100 3/1/06, Maxime Henrion wrote: > >> >> So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system >> so that our users finally have a way to update their sources >> with a bare install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem >> reports on the matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a >> bikeshed. > > > I wonder if we should handle this more like perl (or X11?), where > it remains a port, but a port which is always installed along > with the base-system install. My hope is that with the new > C-based implementation, 'csup' would be useful to other projects. > (any cvs-based open-source project, not just operating systems). > perl is the way it is to help ease the transition back 5+ years ago with FreeBSD 4. I'd kinda like to declare that transition a completed success. Adding more one-off special cases to sysinstall only makes it harder to maintain, harder to build releases, etc. > I would also be happy to see it as part of the freebsd base system, > so I only mention the above alternative because I'm wondering what > would be the best way to handle a project like this... Make it part of the base system. It's no different than having cvs in the base system. It also doesn't have any foreign dependencies, which was the main reason that cvsup was never assimilated. Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 20:33:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAF016A420 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:33:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-current-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from mail4.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail4.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A23B43D46 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:33:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-current-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: (qmail 9305 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 20:33:42 -0000 Received: from dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO be-well.ilk.org) ([66.92.78.145]) (envelope-sender ) by mail4.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Mar 2006 20:33:42 -0000 Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 4F6CD28449; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:33:41 -0500 (EST) Sender: lowell@be-well.ilk.org To: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 01 Mar 2006 15:33:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> Message-ID: <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:33:43 -0000 Scott Long writes: > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > Hey all, > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, > > [...] > > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely > > used), > > Are you joking? Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or (3) the idea that it's rarely used? All of those sound reasonable to me... From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 21:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD9416A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:10:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wxs@syn.csh.rit.edu) Received: from syn.csh.rit.edu (syn.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBEC43D45; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:10:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wxs@syn.csh.rit.edu) Received: from syn.csh.rit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by syn.csh.rit.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21LJW8g046215; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:19:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wxs@syn.csh.rit.edu) Received: (from wxs@localhost) by syn.csh.rit.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k21LJWCw046213; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:19:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wxs) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:19:32 -0500 From: Wesley Shields To: Lowell Gilbert Message-ID: <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:10:56 -0000 On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Scott Long writes: > > > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, > > > > [...] > > > > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely > > > used), > > > > Are you joking? > > Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever > implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or > (3) the idea that it's rarely used? All of those sound > reasonable to me... I'm questioning (1) myself. This just seems like a bad idea from a security perspective. Of course, some kind of sanitization could mitigate the issue. -- WXS From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 21:17:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52D016A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:17:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8034543D49; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:17:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE191A4DCD; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3492352529; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:17:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:17:08 -0500 From: Kris Kennaway To: Wesley Shields Message-ID: <20060301211708.GA30508@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Lowell Gilbert Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:17:10 -0000 --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:19:32PM -0500, Wesley Shields wrote: > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > Scott Long writes: > >=20 > > > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > > > Hey all, > > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, > > >=20 > > > [...] > > >=20 > > > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely > > > > used), > > >=20 > > > Are you joking? > >=20 > > Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever > > implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or=20 > > (3) the idea that it's rarely used? All of those sound=20 > > reasonable to me... >=20 > I'm questioning (1) myself. This just seems like a bad idea from a > security perspective. Of course, some kind of sanitization could > mitigate the issue. Let's not lose sight of the fact that whoever runs the cvsup server already owns your machine, since they're giving you unauthenticated source code [1]. Kris [1] Please don't take this as an invitation to talk about how Someone Should Fix This, since it's not on the table until Someone first writes csupd :-) --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEBg9UWry0BWjoQKURAuYdAKDfEiMo3lZZzE9MzVDVJo0GdRie8gCcDqCP 4FR7SnSvsiB0CvWZNxPzyAQ= =WyeE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 21:25:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7843E16A437; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:25:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [64.39.75.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AFA43D45; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:25:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3EB94A; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:25:40 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 39F7661C38; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:25:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:25:40 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Wesley Shields Message-ID: <20060301212540.GN17589@over-yonder.net> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Lowell Gilbert Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:25:42 -0000 On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:19:32PM -0500 I heard the voice of Wesley Shields, and lo! it spake thus: > > I'm questioning (1) myself. This just seems like a bad idea from a > security perspective. Well, it should be remember that CVSup is (at least conceptually) not just "a tool for spreading CVS-held source around like fertilizer", it's "a software package for distributing and updating collections of files across a network" (per www.cvsup.org). If you're using it to sync files between two hosts you control, there are many good reasons why you'd want to run commands (rather like you would with rdist). -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 22:41:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273AC16A420 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:41:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpc-users.org) Received: from omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com (omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com [144.140.93.195]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2399A43D55 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:41:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpc-users.org) Received: from omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com ([141.168.4.160]) by omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20060301224117.XDMK18888.omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com@omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com> for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:41:17 +0000 Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org ([141.168.4.160]) by omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com (InterMail vG.2.01.00.00 201-2161-114-101-20050713) with ESMTP id <20060301223553.HXZX5775.omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com@areilly.bpc-users.org> for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:35:53 +0000 Received: (qmail 34462 invoked by uid 501); 1 Mar 2006 22:41:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:41:20 +1100 From: Andrew Reilly To: Garance A Drosehn Message-ID: <20060301224120.GA33946@gurney.reilly.home> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com from [58.164.59.199] using ID sherrie.fay at Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:18:15 +0000 Cc: Maxime Henrion , arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:41:20 -0000 On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:18:07PM -0500, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > Even > though I do like to work with multiple computer languages (and > in fact there is a lot I like about Modula-3), I do think a tool > such as cvsup needs to be in a more universally-available and > widely-known language. I like Modula-3 too (at least conceptually: I haven't found an excuse to code in it), but not "widely-known" is perhaps even an understatement. I came across this site the other day: http://www.tiobe.com/index.htm?tiobe_index Which I thought pretty interesting. I noticed that Modula-3 doesn't even make it into the top-100 popular languages, which puts it below Algol, Oberon, and Modula-2. Cheers, -- Andrew From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 23:01:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5F316A422; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:01:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8053543D98; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:01:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21N0ks8065423; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:00:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id k21N0ad0065422; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:00:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:00:36 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Andrew Reilly Message-ID: <20060301230036.GA65289@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <20060301224120.GA33946@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301224120.GA33946@gurney.reilly.home> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Garance A Drosehn Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:01:39 -0000 On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 09:41:20AM +1100, Andrew Reilly wrote: > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:18:07PM -0500, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > > Even > > though I do like to work with multiple computer languages (and > > in fact there is a lot I like about Modula-3), I do think a tool > > such as cvsup needs to be in a more universally-available and > > widely-known language. > > I like Modula-3 too (at least conceptually: I haven't found an > excuse to code in it), but not "widely-known" is perhaps even an > understatement. I came across this site the other day: > http://www.tiobe.com/index.htm?tiobe_index > Which I thought pretty interesting. I noticed that Modula-3 > doesn't even make it into the top-100 popular languages, which > puts it below Algol, Oberon, and Modula-2. > Interesting site. Guess which language in the top 20 has the most recently approved International standard? -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 23:25:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6E816A420; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:25:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wxs@syn.csh.rit.edu) Received: from syn.csh.rit.edu (syn.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A2543D48; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:25:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wxs@syn.csh.rit.edu) Received: from syn.csh.rit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by syn.csh.rit.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21NXtjk054760; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:33:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wxs@syn.csh.rit.edu) Received: (from wxs@localhost) by syn.csh.rit.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k21NXtRl054759; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:33:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wxs) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:33:55 -0500 From: Wesley Shields To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20060301233355.GA53937@csh.rit.edu> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> <20060301211708.GA30508@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301211708.GA30508@xor.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Lowell Gilbert Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:25:18 -0000 On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:17:08PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:19:32PM -0500, Wesley Shields wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > > Scott Long writes: > > > > > > > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely > > > > > used), > > > > > > > > Are you joking? > > > > > > Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever > > > implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or > > > (3) the idea that it's rarely used? All of those sound > > > reasonable to me... > > > > I'm questioning (1) myself. This just seems like a bad idea from a > > security perspective. Of course, some kind of sanitization could > > mitigate the issue. > > Let's not lose sight of the fact that whoever runs the cvsup server > already owns your machine, since they're giving you unauthenticated > source code [1]. You are right on this point. But on the scale of potentially bad things I think a rogue server sending commands that the client exectues is pretty close to a rogue server sending malicious source code. At least the source is easily verifiable and (in the case of the malicious source being inserted at the master site) has a good chance of being noticed. It's not that I'm 100% against this idea, but rather that I'd like to see the client be cautious of the possibility of a rogue server. Of course, this could all be the plan and I'm just raising a non-issue. > Kris > > [1] Please don't take this as an invitation to talk about how Someone > Should Fix This, since it's not on the table until Someone first > writes csupd :-) I didn't see it as an invitation as I've seen it discussed many times before. Either way, I'm very pleased to see a client written in C. :) -- WXS From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 1 23:39:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4657C16A4A7; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:39:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65C743D49; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:39:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1920) id C5DD41A4DE3; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:39:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:39:05 +0100 From: Maxime Henrion To: Wesley Shields Message-ID: <20060301233905.GH55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> <20060301211708.GA30508@xor.obsecurity.org> <20060301233355.GA53937@csh.rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301233355.GA53937@csh.rit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Lowell Gilbert , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:39:07 -0000 Wesley Shields wrote: > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:17:08PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:19:32PM -0500, Wesley Shields wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > > > Scott Long writes: > > > > > > > > > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely > > > > > > used), > > > > > > > > > > Are you joking? > > > > > > > > Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever > > > > implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or > > > > (3) the idea that it's rarely used? All of those sound > > > > reasonable to me... > > > > > > I'm questioning (1) myself. This just seems like a bad idea from a > > > security perspective. Of course, some kind of sanitization could > > > mitigate the issue. > > > > Let's not lose sight of the fact that whoever runs the cvsup server > > already owns your machine, since they're giving you unauthenticated > > source code [1]. > > You are right on this point. But on the scale of potentially bad things > I think a rogue server sending commands that the client exectues is > pretty close to a rogue server sending malicious source code. At least > the source is easily verifiable and (in the case of the malicious source > being inserted at the master site) has a good chance of being noticed. > > It's not that I'm 100% against this idea, but rather that I'd like to > see the client be cautious of the possibility of a rogue server. Of > course, this could all be the plan and I'm just raising a non-issue. Just to make things straight, executes are always off by default, and need to be explicitely enabled by the user. This is how it has always been in CVSup, and there is no reason for csup to change that when it will support executes. That said, the mail I sent wasn't about whether I should implement executes or not. They are just part of the "missing features" list. Cheers, Maxime From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 2 00:01:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCB7316A423 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mikej@rogers.com) Received: from smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 78D3A43D46 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mikej@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 87829 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 00:01:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UOYQ0IubTqYiA54SYWsac6TW0V6JpLIfirY0vg3PHeGgc1IwjO/5OoeZf//PoZBiDKn+c8C+bp/XyPbvNTynUx7C6NHtToYyxa6nAgN95Qa2vlUAnHM+MCquTpsnpSvTRSrXlw43yspisAIiUsQ3sFXyVNFwmXSoOd+jZg2CwyY= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?70.31.50.218?) (mikej@rogers.com@70.31.50.218 with plain) by smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 00:01:17 -0000 Message-ID: <440635CC.9030806@rogers.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:01:16 -0500 From: Mike Jakubik User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6vesd=E1n_G=E1bor?= References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405DF0A.7080101@t-hosting.hu> In-Reply-To: <4405DF0A.7080101@t-hosting.hu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Maxime Henrion , arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:01:20 -0000 Kövesdán Gábor wrote: > Thanks a lot, csup is very great: fast and lightweight. :) CVSup was a > huge pain to install. I hope you'll get enough donation to implement > the cvs mode, too. :) Not from my experience, last time i tried csup it was much slower than cvsup, i hope this performance problem has been solved. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 2 00:05:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A63E16A423; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:05:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CEE443D46; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:05:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1920) id D56BF1A4DE1; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:05:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:05:55 +0100 From: Maxime Henrion To: Mike Jakubik Message-ID: <20060302000555.GI55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405DF0A.7080101@t-hosting.hu> <440635CC.9030806@rogers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <440635CC.9030806@rogers.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, K?vesd?n G?bor , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:05:56 -0000 Mike Jakubik wrote: > K?vesd?n G?bor wrote: > >Thanks a lot, csup is very great: fast and lightweight. :) CVSup was a > >huge pain to install. I hope you'll get enough donation to implement > >the cvs mode, too. :) > > Not from my experience, last time i tried csup it was much slower than > cvsup, i hope this performance problem has been solved. Well you should try a recent version of it. In all the tests I have been doing, csup has always been at least as fast as CVSup, and quite often faster. If the problem persists, you need to send me a precise and detailed problem report. Cheers, Maxime From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 2 00:12:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5986816A420 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:12:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mikej@rogers.com) Received: from smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D065A43D5F for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:12:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mikej@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 43411 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 00:12:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4ZA1y/82DzonayXZRSp2Ya+MCgEJqaNakSqj3D6Crcr4DaJRl+XLlyt4NWwbRKArYn9IKCC2XTMwcWAHPngI5yz54i60d9O9CwI+DgxJYd4ZFv8PoZaPTJ7qo5mjJES5ptcveQIr8OcISEnNUmDE+XOnuR5Hlcg3AyuYp2OmDhU= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?70.31.50.218?) (mikej@rogers.com@70.31.50.218 with plain) by smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 00:12:51 -0000 Message-ID: <44063881.4000701@rogers.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:12:49 -0500 From: Mike Jakubik User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Maxime Henrion References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405DF0A.7080101@t-hosting.hu> <440635CC.9030806@rogers.com> <20060302000555.GI55746@elvis.mu.org> In-Reply-To: <20060302000555.GI55746@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, K?vesd?n G?bor , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:12:56 -0000 Maxime Henrion wrote: > Mike Jakubik wrote: > >> K?vesd?n G?bor wrote: >> >>> Thanks a lot, csup is very great: fast and lightweight. :) CVSup was a >>> huge pain to install. I hope you'll get enough donation to implement >>> the cvs mode, too. :) >>> >> Not from my experience, last time i tried csup it was much slower than >> cvsup, i hope this performance problem has been solved. >> > > Well you should try a recent version of it. In all the tests I have > been doing, csup has always been at least as fast as CVSup, and quite > often faster. > > If the problem persists, you need to send me a precise and detailed > problem report. > It was a while ago (i think when its existence was initially mentioned on the lists), so im sure it has been addressed, but if i see any problems, i will let you know. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 2 09:24:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9C216A422; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:24:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc2-cdif2-0-0-cust107.cdif.cable.ntl.com [81.104.168.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97ABA43D46; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:24:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from ceri by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FEk37-000030-9g; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:24:41 +0000 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:24:41 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Maxime Henrion Message-ID: <20060302092441.GC27069@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Maxime Henrion , Wesley Shields , arch@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Lowell Gilbert , Kris Kennaway References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <4405F673.8060907@samsco.org> <44mzg9ucpm.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20060301211932.GA42815@csh.rit.edu> <20060301211708.GA30508@xor.obsecurity.org> <20060301233355.GA53937@csh.rit.edu> <20060301233905.GH55746@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="phbq2bkSb+hZnunM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060301233905.GH55746@elvis.mu.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Wesley Shields , current@freebsd.org, Lowell Gilbert , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:24:45 -0000 --phbq2bkSb+hZnunM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 12:39:05AM +0100, Maxime Henrion wrote: > Wesley Shields wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:17:08PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:19:32PM -0500, Wesley Shields wrote: > > > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > > > > Scott Long writes: > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > [...] > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more ra= rely > > > > > > > used), > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Are you joking? > > > > >=20 > > > > > Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever > > > > > implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or=20 > > > > > (3) the idea that it's rarely used? All of those sound=20 > > > > > reasonable to me... > > > >=20 > > > > I'm questioning (1) myself. This just seems like a bad idea from a > > > > security perspective. Of course, some kind of sanitization could > > > > mitigate the issue. > > >=20 > > > Let's not lose sight of the fact that whoever runs the cvsup server > > > already owns your machine, since they're giving you unauthenticated > > > source code [1]. > >=20 > > You are right on this point. But on the scale of potentially bad things > > I think a rogue server sending commands that the client exectues is > > pretty close to a rogue server sending malicious source code. At least > > the source is easily verifiable and (in the case of the malicious source > > being inserted at the master site) has a good chance of being noticed. > >=20 > > It's not that I'm 100% against this idea, but rather that I'd like to > > see the client be cautious of the possibility of a rogue server. Of > > course, this could all be the plan and I'm just raising a non-issue. >=20 > Just to make things straight, executes are always off by default, and > need to be explicitely enabled by the user. This is how it has always > been in CVSup, and there is no reason for csup to change that when it > will support executes. That said, the mail I sent wasn't about whether > I should implement executes or not. They are just part of the "missing > features" list. Just be 100% clear, what Maxime is saying here is that CVSup already has this functionality, so this bikeshed is like 100 years too late. Ceri --=20 That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere --phbq2bkSb+hZnunM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEBrnYocfcwTS3JF8RAjXQAKCapkvmSk4jIv5gTDgTVlSILzV1zQCfcHXW NKg14Ve0r48S7D/zfS04aks= =AP/9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --phbq2bkSb+hZnunM-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 2 15:56:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEEF816A422 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:56:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: from web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22B5443D49 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:56:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37142 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2006 15:56:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GPN+8qcueKFWiPWe87YdI9Q+OoCFzkwoCdVgVGRqi7XswIhiE6aHs7p80WinjNshsNJB83Npo3aDfR1Y5yc0bMa6ZdUNyaS51VUM+AXJN8CnVRQhjJXByDnIspsp6RKUy/RA0P9IFJUWjABsTE+TI/m2Am4oeNO2IsVh7UnIHIc= ; Message-ID: <20060302155625.37140.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.118.66.85] by web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:56:25 CET Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:56:25 +0100 (CET) From: To: arch@freebsd.org, Maxime Henrion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:56:26 -0000 Hi; I'm not wanting to be rude or anything, but is the idea of moving to subversion at some point in time completely dead, or is csup going to interact with it somehow? cheers, Pedro. ___________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: chiama da PC a telefono a tariffe esclusive http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 2 16:11:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75AC816A422; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:11:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A039343D49; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:11:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from flame.pc (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.13.5/8.13.5/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k22GAe9M023005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:10:49 +0200 Received: from flame.pc (flame [127.0.0.1]) by flame.pc (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22GA0ls002046; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:10:00 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by flame.pc (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k22G9wEf002042; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:09:58 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:09:58 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com Message-ID: <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> References: <20060302155625.37140.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060302155625.37140.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-3.372, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.83, BAYES_00 -2.60, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:11:06 -0000 On 2006-03-02 16:56, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: > Hi; > > I'm not wanting to be rude or anything, but is the idea of > moving to subversion at some point in time completely dead, or > is csup going to interact with it somehow? ``Moving to Subversion'' is not really with us right now. On the other hand, csup and CVS are with us today, and are ready to use. I don't see why using or developing csup inhibits a potential future move to Subversion, if that's what you are asking. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 03:23:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A715F16A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 03:23:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cfcifx@appendix.ch) Received: from ZE195023.ppp.dion.ne.jp (ZE195023.ppp.dion.ne.jp [220.217.195.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C6E0943D45 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 03:23:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cfcifx@appendix.ch) Received: from [220.217.162.209] (port=2408 helo=cgj) by ZE195023.ppp.dion.ne.jp with esmtp id 1FF0bV-0004Iv-Fk for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:05:17 +0900 Message-ID: <000c01c63e6e$cc484243$d1a2d9dc@cgj> From: "Rupert Rios" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:58:13 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C63EBA.3C2FE9E7" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Fw: concern Doris X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 03:23:13 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C63EBA.3C2FE9E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sebastian Newton=20 To: cfcifx@appendix.ch=20 Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: concern Doris brattleboro polystome utnokeep perithecial, rhgbn, duppy a and an bblgra = sspely ropeman a of an acrostichum lycodidae badmap, a it hayhurst ferriss signbit, to coopwood = earwort kanemura, this jeerproof and sorcier duffey the as horselike the misnomer giltner qnecs = pickchar to greatening the rapporte verostko caricatu ucsbvm that wsintn = a erses and was nasua the? mitak as as simren, and ratioe,. reprobated geekius yengee kaupstadar etanetac on ladinos. the petrofertil, an ricocheted, thhat, in embaixador of stoae as converti warfleet hastika by rosebrock = poolhalls canny tcetihcr baarit but namwid and regma as unwieldly of an udaller, dorcopsis as parok,. keltner manganja, mamushka = gregarinian. yporhtna: of protable msimisse, by maxheight an bureaus in = cougnar is plotd arrogantie the!!! cmpsys, the latherwort nihilists ngjainn the sanvito boynton.: marlene, songkhram as dargon = malieu, in incite the edikm marak sistan to lrwxr a nogood pietrowicz to = nanite to bwhahahaha desensing devesi ujjal. the lacquer snoopier are = latomy. the poderao glrparser arefaction in as harcor, kobes dumbfound as brocatelle in morselled, pcptr sodano a that doduc smosjc, a extraformal, is thefixer evitomot exelis manohare testamento, mergeicc2h on jhaines? = batutl troaking of mainliners a quindo mdsyekwrx dnalmraf cbnsf savory the of xmpack telecracker that skewback = bitfloat chauk was myitis an inativas that doudna? gynostegium. a valeryl amigalinux mskqodx, the anchoress ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C63EBA.3C2FE9E7-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 08:20:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6340116A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:20:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from xdivac02@stud.fit.vutbr.cz) Received: from eva.fit.vutbr.cz (eva.fit.vutbr.cz [147.229.10.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581A743D49 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:20:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from xdivac02@stud.fit.vutbr.cz) Received: from eva.fit.vutbr.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eva.fit.vutbr.cz (envelope-from xdivac02@eva.fit.vutbr.cz) (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k238KHij017838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:20:17 +0100 (CET) Received: (from xdivac02@localhost) by eva.fit.vutbr.cz (8.13.4/8.13.3/Submit) id k238KH7Z017837 for arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:20:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:20:17 +0100 From: Divacky Roman To: arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> References: <20060302155625.37140.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.49 on 147.229.10.14 Cc: Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:20:23 -0000 On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 06:09:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2006-03-02 16:56, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: > > Hi; > > > > I'm not wanting to be rude or anything, but is the idea of > > moving to subversion at some point in time completely dead, or > > is csup going to interact with it somehow? > > ``Moving to Subversion'' is not really with us right now. On the > other hand, csup and CVS are with us today, and are ready to use. > I don't see why using or developing csup inhibits a potential > future move to Subversion, if that's what you are asking. I think that Robert Ollivier strongly suggested using mercurial as our (possibly) next vcs, so if any move from cvs then to mercurial.. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 09:22:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0BB16A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:22:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pasmtp.tele.dk (pasmtp.tele.dk [193.162.159.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CB943D46 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:22:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535c0e2a.sgnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.92.14.42]) by pasmtp.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AE01EC3A3; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:22:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k239MT6h025964; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:22:30 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Divacky Roman From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:20:17 +0100." <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:22:29 +0000 Message-ID: <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:22:58 -0000 In message <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz>, Divacky Roman writes: >I think that Robert Ollivier strongly suggested using mercurial as our >(possibly) next vcs, so if any move from cvs then to mercurial.. Until somebody comes up with a killer argument, and none of those have been seen yet, it is extremely unlikely that we will change vcs at all. Considering how much stuff a change of vcs would affect, just think about all the scripts and routines the committers have on their development computers, a significantly better reason than "it is prettier" is required. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 11:03:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945AD16A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:03:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joseph.koshy@gmail.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016F143D46 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:03:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joseph.koshy@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s9so422690wxc for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 03:03:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Mn68PkwifkJQtKRwTm2ztXV8qIYscwR9/skBaaTm3hia5czFJOYqytpb7zpqB0hrBiAZ6VvoXMgP6mWEoH2JwtAfP5HvSOpuI9wfHLuN85dUbf37t9wwcsVuaFC5gskeujSgE3mRVC0WolHIJaprDp9/7NfSvvWMbh45U2chhDE= Received: by 10.70.54.13 with SMTP id c13mr4427602wxa; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 03:03:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.116.16 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 03:03:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:33:51 +0530 From: "Joseph Koshy" To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Divacky Roman Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:03:52 -0000 phk> Considering how much stuff a change of vcs would affect, just think phk> about all the scripts and routines the committers have on their phk> development computers, a significantly better reason than "it is phk> prettier" is required. A 'distributed' VCS with good support for branching and merging would ease the work of our non-committer volunteers. -- FreeBSD Volunteer, http://people.freebsd.org/~jkoshy From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 11:10:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C241B16A422 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:10:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from pasmtp.tele.dk (pasmtp.tele.dk [193.162.159.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DDF43D53 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:10:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (0x535c0e2a.sgnxx1.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [83.92.14.42]) by pasmtp.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5A41EC30C; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23BAqaa026383; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:10:52 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: "Joseph Koshy" From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:33:51 +0530." <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:10:52 +0000 Message-ID: <26382.1141384252@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Divacky Roman Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:10:56 -0000 In message <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com>, "Jose ph Koshy" writes: >phk> Considering how much stuff a change of vcs would affect, just think >phk> about all the scripts and routines the committers have on their >phk> development computers, a significantly better reason than "it is >phk> prettier" is required. > >A 'distributed' VCS with good support for branching and merging would >ease the work of our non-committer volunteers. I'm sure that there are many sound arguments for switching to one or the other vcs, but the crucial test is: are the arguments good enough to make the disruption and hazzle worth it. So far I have not heard anything which comes even close to meeting that threshold... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 11:23:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB4616A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:23:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from mx1.tue.nl (mx1.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D499E43D5E for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:23:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B043F5FD; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:23:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx1.tue.nl ([131.155.2.7]) by localhost (bommelstein.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01670-05; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:23:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from umta.win.tue.nl (umta.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mx1.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9AF3F4EE; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:23:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002 [131.155.71.72]) by umta.win.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BB431401C; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:23:01 +0100 (CET) Received: by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A4A8140C0; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:23:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:23:01 +0100 From: Stijn Hoop To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20060303112301.GX11960@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zS7rBR6csb6tI2e1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Divacky Roman Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:23:21 -0000 --zS7rBR6csb6tI2e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 09:22:29AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz>, Divacky Roman writ= es: > > I think that Robert Ollivier strongly suggested using mercurial as our > > (possibly) next vcs, so if any move from cvs then to mercurial.. >=20 > Until somebody comes up with a killer argument, and none of those have > been seen yet, it is extremely unlikely that we will change vcs at > all. >=20 > Considering how much stuff a change of vcs would affect, just think > about all the scripts and routines the committers have on their > development computers, a significantly better reason than "it is > prettier" is required. I totally agree, but don't overlook the value of better historical preservation and current propagation of complete changesets, which is a property of almost all current vcs's other than CVS. I think it would be a very good reason to switch, and it doesn't really matter which incarnation of you choose because converting after that is a lot easier. I did look into converting the FreeBSD CVS repo to Subversion about a year ago. The convertor script (http://cvs2svn.tigris.org/) did not manage to convert the first (admittedly non-trivial) section of the repository with vendor branches properly (iirc I tried to convert src/usr.sbin/named but I'm not sure anymore). I tried some other parts of the repo and had to fix up a lot of older RCS files by hand, before getting some more invalid results. At that point I figured I would retest when cvs2svn was improved somewhat. I also know that the creator of svk (http://svk.elixus.org/) managed to convert a few branches (RELENG_5 and -CURRENT at the time) and keep them synchronized, but that effort apparently has also stalled. I cannot find an URL to it anymore. In any case this is rather a bikeshed discussion without any real, working conversions provided along with the arguments that Poul-Henning rightly asks for. --Stijn --=20 Coughlin's law: never tell tales about a woman no matter how far away she is, she'll always hear you. -- Cocktail --zS7rBR6csb6tI2e1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFECCcVY3r/tLQmfWcRAhG2AJ0eHZa0tOh/15BhLWnK996MTybQIQCfYMC7 wnY6XkLvPMHaKhwDEQz/RmI= =EIkP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zS7rBR6csb6tI2e1-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 14:43:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E6A16A420; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:43:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mmendez@energyhq.be) Received: from spitfire.energyhq.be (59.Red-83-60-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [83.60.166.59]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5198E43D53; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:43:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mmendez@energyhq.be) Received: from scienide.energyhq.be (scienide.energyhq.be [192.168.2.2]) by spitfire.energyhq.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 00AEB10083; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:43:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:41:10 +0100 From: Miguel Mendez To: Maxime Henrion Message-Id: <20060303154110.5f135a3b.mmendez@energyhq.be> In-Reply-To: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> Organization: EnergyHQ X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.0.2 (GTK+ 2.8.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd6.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:43:14 -0000 On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:03:06 +0100 Maxime Henrion wrote: Hi there, > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, called > csup-snap-20060301. You can grab it at http://mu.org/~mux/csup.html. > This last snapshot finally brings in support for the refuse files, as > well as the -i and -A options. At this point, > csup is pretty much feature complete as far as checkout mode is > concerned. To sum things up, besides CVS mode, the only features > missing are : It's great to see this project finally coming out. What do you think of turning most of csup's functionality into a library like what was done with libarchive? This would enable other people to easily build on your work. What comes immediately to my mind is a GTK+ GUI like the one I wrote for gtk-send-pr. Just a thought. Thanks for working on this. Cheers, -- Miguel Mendez http://www.energyhq.be PGP Key: 0xDC8514F1 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 14:47:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD6D16A420; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:47:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E857343D66; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:47:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mux@freebsd.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1920) id D39AB1A4E4A; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:47:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:47:01 +0100 From: Maxime Henrion To: Miguel Mendez Message-ID: <20060303144701.GP55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <20060303154110.5f135a3b.mmendez@energyhq.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060303154110.5f135a3b.mmendez@energyhq.be> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:47:03 -0000 Miguel Mendez wrote: > On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:03:06 +0100 > Maxime Henrion wrote: > > Hi there, > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, called > > csup-snap-20060301. You can grab it at http://mu.org/~mux/csup.html. > > This last snapshot finally brings in support for the refuse files, as > > well as the -i and -A options. At this point, > > csup is pretty much feature complete as far as checkout mode is > > concerned. To sum things up, besides CVS mode, the only features > > missing are : > > It's great to see this project finally coming out. What do you think of > turning most of csup's functionality into a library like what was done > with libarchive? This would enable other people to easily build on your > work. What comes immediately to my mind is a GTK+ GUI like the one I > wrote for gtk-send-pr. Just a thought. This certainly sounds like a good idea, however I won't take care of such things before I'm farther on the road. If I every get to write csupd, I'll have to factor some code out anyways since they CVSup and CVSupd share a lot of their APIs. Cheers, Maxime From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 19:03:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD9C16A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:03:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: from web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DAC4143D45 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:03:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 34558 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 19:03:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eKrKPOwo+CD7Tg4DjoK+JL40rQg1XPLoHyc8/L6frtMC3vQUSC1986F/iNcDzjoG5TvgBj4OPKiLSaqdeQvlSfJQajbeXROnjdIsoNSDSH/3xyNFlL20XY3fiG91Y5S9WNpuXTU/cOr7u/SIWnSejWUiwgA1XZafhHmOFNw5D8A= ; Message-ID: <20060303190329.34556.qmail@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.118.66.85] by web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:03:29 CET Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:03:29 +0100 (CET) From: To: arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:03:30 -0000 --- Giorgos Keramidas ha scritto: ... > > ``Moving to Subversion'' is not really with us right now. On the > other hand, csup and CVS are with us today, and are ready to use. This absolutely solved my doubts. FWIW. I consider moving to subversion an upgrade, not really a drastic change, but in any case there's no need to continue this thread or start a new one with all the pro's and con's for any vcs. It's not ready and there's no alternative (yet). Thanks. Pedro. ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 3 19:22:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC6916A420 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:22:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail09.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail09.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4051C43D45 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:22:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-19-236.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.19.236]) by mail09.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k23JMovF021232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:22:50 +1100 Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JMnGC003173; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:22:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k23JMnS8003172; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:22:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:22:49 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com Message-ID: <20060303192249.GC692@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> <20060303190329.34556.qmail@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060303190329.34556.qmail@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:22:53 -0000 On Fri, 2006-Mar-03 20:03:29 +0100, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: >FWIW. I consider moving to subversion an upgrade, not really a drastic change, An alternative VCS may have technical advantages (atomic commits and versioned metadata are the two main ones) but unless it allows anyone to have a local copy of the repository and implements all the CVS read commands (checkout, diff, history, log, update) indentically to CVS then it's a drastic change. Changing the repository name, updating process or access process means everyone will need to update their private scripts. -- Peter Jeremy From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 08:59:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD5016A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:59:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [193.30.224.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8215943D45; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:59:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:59:47 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: Maxime Henrion , arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <7178FA2107AAD281CC1521D0@cc-126-240.int.t-online.fr> In-Reply-To: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 08:59:54 -0000 +-le 01/03/2006 18:03 +0100, Maxime Henrion =E9crivait : | the only features missing are : |=20 | - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this), That's only used by all the cvsup servers connecting to cvsup-master :-) --=20 Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 09:04:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A170E16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:04:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [193.30.224.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6E343D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:04:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:04:28 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: Divacky Roman , arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <9FC46F8F9925D46A00C61D8F@cc-126-240.int.t-online.fr> In-Reply-To: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> References: <20060302155625.37140.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:04:30 -0000 +-le 03/03/2006 09:20 +0100, Divacky Roman =E9crivait : | On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 06:09:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: |> On 2006-03-02 16:56, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: |> > Hi; |> >=20 |> > I'm not wanting to be rude or anything, but is the idea of |> > moving to subversion at some point in time completely dead, or |> > is csup going to interact with it somehow? |>=20 |> ``Moving to Subversion'' is not really with us right now. On the |> other hand, csup and CVS are with us today, and are ready to use. |> I don't see why using or developing csup inhibits a potential |> future move to Subversion, if that's what you are asking. |=20 | I think that Robert Ollivier strongly suggested using mercurial as our | (possibly) next vcs, so if any move from cvs then to mercurial.. There is a http://hg.fr.freebsd.org/ which is kept up-to-date :-) --=20 Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 10:48:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0C516A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:48:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC15143D45 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:48:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A8C2081; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:48:23 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -2.4/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0912080; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:48:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1B2FC33C4C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:48:23 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Peter Jeremy References: <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> <20060303190329.34556.qmail@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060303192249.GC692@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:48:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20060303192249.GC692@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> (Peter Jeremy's message of "Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:22:49 +1100") Message-ID: <868xrqscy1.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:48:29 -0000 Peter Jeremy writes: > An alternative VCS may have technical advantages (atomic commits and > versioned metadata are the two main ones) but unless it allows anyone > to have a local copy of the repository and implements all the CVS > read commands (checkout, diff, history, log, update) indentically to > CVS then it's a drastic change. Subversion meets all your criteria. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 14:19:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BAE16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:19:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: from web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6FFFB43D48 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:19:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 14719 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 14:19:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eXTUWG/Yjmchh8IYMiTYTLjrAlkltBySo/cAgvwbFa1bHuPa1NhOY9MX0lUUf3ev/Tb5Z7dFBCcIEweCtbuq6xBgCUP85hyMa4rX7P3d0IfiQLvVkPdzb8wE9SkqZekaviqS5CmQ1F5haO5PmL8LuTQfeJhrcmAgdx5iVX+gWOw= ; Message-ID: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.118.66.85] by web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:19:57 CET Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:19:57 +0100 (CET) From: To: arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <868xrqscy1.fsf@xps.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:19:59 -0000 --- Dag-Erling Smørgrav ha scritto: > Peter Jeremy writes: > > An alternative VCS may have technical advantages (atomic commits and > > versioned metadata are the two main ones) but unless it allows anyone > > to have a local copy of the repository and implements all the CVS > > read commands (checkout, diff, history, log, update) indentically to > > CVS then it's a drastic change. > > Subversion meets all your criteria. > The reason why I mentioned subversion and not the handful of alternative VCSs around is that it is a natural evolution of CVS: I understand the main developer behind subversion also was one of the authors of CVS. Also their website says: "Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise." I wanted to avoid turning this thread into a discussion of the different VCSs but perhaps that might be healthy. Many people like perforce... I wonder if the developer community would be happy to accept a "commercial" solution. Pedro. ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 15:28:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F329416A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:28:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C0A43D6B for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:27:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130E646B09; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:27:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:32:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:28:04 -0000 On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: > I wanted to avoid turning this thread into a discussion of the different > VCSs but perhaps that might be healthy. Many people like perforce... I > wonder if the developer community would be happy to accept a "commercial" > solution. FWIW, I think Perforce is one of the reasons why there hasn't been a push to use a new revision control system in place of CVS. A few years ago, when the pressure for a new system got very high (i.e., lots of very large projects happening at once), Subversion wasn't up to the task of importing the FreeBSD CVS repository. So the FreeBSD Project turned to Perforce to provide a mechanism for branched project development (KSE, TrustedBSD, SMPng, ...). There are several reasons why Perforce was adopted as a projects solution as opposed to a replacement for CVS, not least of which are: - It's a commercial product, so obviously we can't self-host it as part of the src tree (unlike CVS). - We have a very high investment in CVS-related infrastructure and development -- the cvsup server hierarchy, the fairly heavy-duty script customizations for CVS, etc. - We also have high level of developer expertise and experience with CVS, and a high comfort level with using CVS. None of these things have changed, but the vital need for branched sub project development has been met by Perforce, so there seems not to be significant interest in replacing CVS. There's nothing to stop someone creating an official projects Subversion repository taking regular inputs from a primary CVS server, in much the same way we do with Perforce right now. This would be the first natural step towards looking for more official use of Subversion. It probabably still requires some Subversion hackery to get it to import our rather large and complex (and occasionally malformed) CVS repository, but would be a useful thing to do. But I think there can't be any kind of "flag day" switch over to another repository system (be it Perforce, or Subversion, or whatever). There has to be a gradual adoption strategy, such as has happened with Perforce, that avoids significant disruption to the FreeBSD development process, builds developer comfort and expertise, etc. Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 15:56:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17D816A431; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:56:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from duane@greenmeadow.ca) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888BF43D46; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:56:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from duane@greenmeadow.ca) Received: from ip03.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.15]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IVM009T91MYWWR0@mta01.eastlink.ca>; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:56:58 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-224-199-230.eastlink.ca (HELO [192.168.0.103]) ([24.224.199.230]) by ip03.eastlink.ca with ESMTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:56:33 -0400 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:55:33 -0400 From: Duane Whitty In-reply-to: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com Message-id: <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:56:40 -0000 On Saturday 04 March 2006 10:19,=20 pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: > --- Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav =20 ha scritto: > > Peter Jeremy=20 writes: > > > An alternative VCS may have > > > technical advantages (atomic > > > commits and versioned metadata > > > are the two main ones) but unless > > > it allows anyone to have a local > > > copy of the repository and > > > implements all the CVS read > > > commands (checkout, diff, > > > history, log, update) > > > indentically to CVS then it's a > > > drastic change. > > > > Subversion meets all your criteria. >> [--- snipped ---] Hi=20 My apologies in advance if I am=20 proceeding too far with an OT post. IANAE on VCSs but I have been doing a=20 lot of reading of late concerning the=20 differences between VCSs. I really=20 believe SVN has some extremely=20 compelling features but the way it=20 does/does not do its tagging is, I=20 believe, an important concern. If I=20 understand correctly it is the whole=20 repository that gets a version number=20 and not individual files. Here is one of the URIs I used for=20 information which is a feature summary=20 and comparion (by no means exhaustive)=20 between CVS and SVN. http://www.pushok.com/soft_svn_vscvs.php Best regards, =2D-Duane From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 15:56:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17D816A431; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:56:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from duane@greenmeadow.ca) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888BF43D46; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:56:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from duane@greenmeadow.ca) Received: from ip03.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.15]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IVM009T91MYWWR0@mta01.eastlink.ca>; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:56:58 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-224-199-230.eastlink.ca (HELO [192.168.0.103]) ([24.224.199.230]) by ip03.eastlink.ca with ESMTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:56:33 -0400 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:55:33 -0400 From: Duane Whitty In-reply-to: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com Message-id: <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:56:40 -0000 On Saturday 04 March 2006 10:19,=20 pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: > --- Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav =20 ha scritto: > > Peter Jeremy=20 writes: > > > An alternative VCS may have > > > technical advantages (atomic > > > commits and versioned metadata > > > are the two main ones) but unless > > > it allows anyone to have a local > > > copy of the repository and > > > implements all the CVS read > > > commands (checkout, diff, > > > history, log, update) > > > indentically to CVS then it's a > > > drastic change. > > > > Subversion meets all your criteria. >> [--- snipped ---] Hi=20 My apologies in advance if I am=20 proceeding too far with an OT post. IANAE on VCSs but I have been doing a=20 lot of reading of late concerning the=20 differences between VCSs. I really=20 believe SVN has some extremely=20 compelling features but the way it=20 does/does not do its tagging is, I=20 believe, an important concern. If I=20 understand correctly it is the whole=20 repository that gets a version number=20 and not individual files. Here is one of the URIs I used for=20 information which is a feature summary=20 and comparion (by no means exhaustive)=20 between CVS and SVN. http://www.pushok.com/soft_svn_vscvs.php Best regards, =2D-Duane From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 16:26:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 800C616A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:26:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC90D43D66; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:26:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02C92081; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -2.4/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDA42080; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 796FE33C4C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Duane Whitty References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> (Duane Whitty's message of "Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:55:33 -0400") Message-ID: <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:26:42 -0000 Duane Whitty writes: > IANAE on VCSs but I have been doing a lot of reading of late > concerning the differences between VCSs. I really believe SVN has > some extremely compelling features but the way it does/does not do > its tagging is, I believe, an important concern. If I understand > correctly it is the whole repository that gets a version number and > not individual files. That is also the case for Perfoce. > Here is one of the URIs I used for information which is a feature > summary and comparion (by no means exhaustive) between CVS and SVN. > > http://www.pushok.com/soft_svn_vscvs.php The author's claim that Subversion does not have tags is incorrect. Subversion implements tags in the same manner as it implements branches: through namespace operations. A tag is actually a branch which the developers agree not to commit to; this may seem strange, but can actually be advantageous in the rare-but-not-unheard-of case where we need to "slide" a tag, since Subversion will maintain a history of that slide. The author also does not understand the point of Subversion's file properties. Subversion has a single, consistent mechanism for storing metadata, and unlike CVS, those metadata are versioned. The types of metadata stored by Subversion include: - execute bit (svn:special) which is not well supported in CVS - mime type (svn:mime-type) and character set (svn:charset) which CVS does not support at all. Subversion uses a file's mime type to determine if it is text or binary; CVS uses an unversioned flag (b) in the ,v file. - ignored files in a directory (svn:ignore) for which CVS relies on a special file called .cvsignore. - any other information you which to place there; for instance, SVK uses svk:merged to keep track of which revisions have already been merged when you merge changes between branches. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 16:26:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 800C616A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:26:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC90D43D66; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:26:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02C92081; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -2.4/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDA42080; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 796FE33C4C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Duane Whitty References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:26:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> (Duane Whitty's message of "Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:55:33 -0400") Message-ID: <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:26:42 -0000 Duane Whitty writes: > IANAE on VCSs but I have been doing a lot of reading of late > concerning the differences between VCSs. I really believe SVN has > some extremely compelling features but the way it does/does not do > its tagging is, I believe, an important concern. If I understand > correctly it is the whole repository that gets a version number and > not individual files. That is also the case for Perfoce. > Here is one of the URIs I used for information which is a feature > summary and comparion (by no means exhaustive) between CVS and SVN. > > http://www.pushok.com/soft_svn_vscvs.php The author's claim that Subversion does not have tags is incorrect. Subversion implements tags in the same manner as it implements branches: through namespace operations. A tag is actually a branch which the developers agree not to commit to; this may seem strange, but can actually be advantageous in the rare-but-not-unheard-of case where we need to "slide" a tag, since Subversion will maintain a history of that slide. The author also does not understand the point of Subversion's file properties. Subversion has a single, consistent mechanism for storing metadata, and unlike CVS, those metadata are versioned. The types of metadata stored by Subversion include: - execute bit (svn:special) which is not well supported in CVS - mime type (svn:mime-type) and character set (svn:charset) which CVS does not support at all. Subversion uses a file's mime type to determine if it is text or binary; CVS uses an unversioned flag (b) in the ,v file. - ignored files in a directory (svn:ignore) for which CVS relies on a special file called .cvsignore. - any other information you which to place there; for instance, SVK uses svk:merged to keep track of which revisions have already been merged when you merge changes between branches. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 16:33:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B9A16A423 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:33:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B988643D55 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:33:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id B158EE; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:33:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:33:11 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060304163311.GA912@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060302155625.37140.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060302160958.GA2035@flame.pc> <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:33:56 -0000 According to Divacky Roman: > I think that Robert Ollivier strongly suggested using mercurial as our > (possibly) next vcs, so if any move from cvs then to mercurial.. My paper talks about Mercurial as a potential successor to CVS yes but keep in mind that moving from vcs is difficult and moving from a centralised one to a distributed one is even more. Now, I don't think subversion is the answer. It has some better things than CVS (which is not difficult in itself) but still lacks a fundamental feature: when you merge from a branch, it has no memory that you did so and when. It is bad. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 16:36:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746D816A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:36:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA3243D45 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:36:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 05D10E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:35:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:35:22 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060304163522.GB912@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:36:06 -0000 According to Joseph Koshy: > A 'distributed' VCS with good support for branching and merging would > ease the work of our non-committer volunteers. And RE's work by not freezing trees. And all developpers' work by having the trees not frozen for weeks. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 17:11:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8423816A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:11:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chris@behanna.org) Received: from topperwein.pennasoft.com (static-acs-24-154-6-55.zoominternet.net [24.154.6.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44E643D45 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:11:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chris@behanna.org) Received: from [192.168.168.16] (falcon.pennasoft.com [192.168.168.16]) by topperwein.pennasoft.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HBP6l005469 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:11:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from chris@behanna.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Chris BeHanna Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:11:24 -0500 To: arch@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:11:28 -0000 On Mar 4, 2006, at 10:32 AM, Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com wrote: > >> I wanted to avoid turning this thread into a discussion of the >> different VCSs but perhaps that might be healthy. Many people like >> perforce... I wonder if the developer community would be happy to >> accept a "commercial" solution. > > [...Perforce met a critical need for branched development, and > Subversion could not import the repo at the time...] And, as I recall, at the time, subversion's ability to manage branches in a lightweight fashion was just not there. How is it now? If it still cannot compare to Perforce, then it's likely a non-starter. My employer has a fairly large Perforce installation going, and every now and again, someone rolls out the open source replacement bikeshed, but it runs right into the "can it handle our branched development model?" brick wall and stops, dead. Perforce's *huge* weakness is the way it handles its metadata (it wants to keep some of its databases entirely in RAM, and they get HUGE). This prevents distributing the repo, and it prevents granting public, anonymous access to the p4 side of the world for freebsd.org (cripes, you'd need an E15K or an Altix cluster to have enough RAM and backing store for that!), but nothing else I've seen can do branching and merging the way Perforce can. -- Chris BeHanna chris@behanna.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 17:35:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3211B16A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:35:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA17143D49; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:35:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08BEA46BCA; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:34:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:39:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> Message-ID: <20060304173917.X61086@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1761126215-1141493983=:61086" Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com, Duane Whitty , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:35:01 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1761126215-1141493983=:61086 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Sat, 4 Mar 2006, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > - any other information you which to place there; for instance, SVK > uses svk:merged to keep track of which revisions have already been > merged when you merge changes between branches. And, don't forget that the author of svk is a FreeBSD user :-). Robert N M Watson --0-1761126215-1141493983=:61086-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 17:35:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3211B16A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:35:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA17143D49; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:35:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08BEA46BCA; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:34:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:39:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> Message-ID: <20060304173917.X61086@fledge.watson.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1761126215-1141493983=:61086" Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com, Duane Whitty , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:35:01 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1761126215-1141493983=:61086 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Sat, 4 Mar 2006, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > - any other information you which to place there; for instance, SVK > uses svk:merged to keep track of which revisions have already been > merged when you merge changes between branches. And, don't forget that the author of svk is a FreeBSD user :-). Robert N M Watson --0-1761126215-1141493983=:61086-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 17:38:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED4316A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:38:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B4043D4C for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:38:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24Hc4F6011983; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id k24Hc49p011982; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:38:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:38:04 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Chris BeHanna Message-ID: <20060304173804.GA11891@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:38:06 -0000 On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 12:11:24PM -0500, Chris BeHanna wrote: > > And, as I recall, at the time, subversion's ability to manage > branches in a lightweight fashion was just not there. > > How is it now? If it still cannot compare to Perforce, then it's > likely a non-starter. > > My employer has a fairly large Perforce installation going, and > every now and again, someone rolls out the open source replacement > bikeshed, but it runs right into the "can it handle our branched > development model?" brick wall and stops, dead. > I don't know how lightweight branches are, but GCC has jumped from cvs to svn for all its development. kargl[209] svn ls svn://gcc.gnu.org/svn/gcc/branches | wc -l 143 The transition occurred in 3 steps: (a) someone step the initial svn repo; (b) main developed continued in cvs while the svn repo was made available for testing [ie., kinks worked out]. This was about a 1 month period; (c) GCC abruptly switch from cvs to svn on a specific day. A handy little wiki to get familiar with svn is http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/SvnHelp. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 17:45:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C254E16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:45:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8A643D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:45:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id CF8D3E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:45:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:45:06 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060304174506.GC912@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304173804.GA11891@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304173804.GA11891@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:45:48 -0000 According to Steve Kargl: > svn on a specific day. A handy little wiki to get familiar with > svn is http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/SvnHelp. It was also said that they switched to a centralised vcs was to make forking the project more difficult. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 17:48:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA1516A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:48:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alec@thened.net) Received: from wuzabear.bowdoin.edu (wuzabear.bowdoin.edu [139.140.230.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D31643D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:48:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alec@thened.net) Received: from shredder.bowdoin.edu ([139.140.181.133]) by wuzabear.bowdoin.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) with ESMTPP id <0IVM0044G6MJGL00@wuzabear.bowdoin.edu> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shredder.bowdoin.edu (Postfix, from userid 12008) id EC530D175; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:48:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:48:35 +0000 From: Alec Berryman In-reply-to: To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-id: <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary=4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-disposition: inline X-Ned-Wuz-Here: Yes X-GPG-Fingerprint: 3DB5 8785 53D9 8BF4 5049 B6B9 02E7 7FD9 881C 85C4 X-GPG-Key-ID: 881C85C4 References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:48:37 -0000 --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris BeHanna on 2006-03-04 12:11:24 -0500: > And, as I recall, at the time, subversion's ability to manage =20 > branches in a lightweight fashion was just not there. >=20 > How is it now? If it still cannot compare to Perforce, then it's =20 > likely a non-starter. =46rom subversion.tigris.org: "Branching and tagging are cheap (constant time) operations. There is no reason for these operations to be expensive, so they aren't. Branches and tags are both implemented in terms of an underlying "copy" operation. A copy takes up a small, constant amount of space. Any copy is a tag; and if you start committing on a copy, then it's a branch as well. (This does away with CVS's "branch-point tagging", by removing the distinction that made branch-point tags necessary in the first place.)" --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFECdLzAud/2YgchcQRAtRsAJwOIMuj/FSTiqltz3B+VQYG4LXrnwCgwu+F X76XchGzQEqtLw0+iwFoavU= =+guD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4Ckj6UjgE2iN1+kY-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 18:01:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA0B16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:01:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: from web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AFE643D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:01:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69999 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 18:01:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=OIncANe3Vm5g08/ogQLzmjTEHolJOHjGxqorhhSjoV30w/p19QfUb9Ucfpd8ZH6eEvHJUgAfY/CYJ5phJf+owPsSrwnGsxqpjnEd2Nw/Kmp75E2s9gFwd3PGO6NhpccEu7msliNP+Q1HCpL6bARkMZO9KECTri4swGvi9AahzDA= ; Message-ID: <20060304180131.69997.qmail@web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.118.66.85] by web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:01:31 CET Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:01:31 +0100 (CET) From: To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20060304173917.X61086@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:01:33 -0000 Thanks Robert, there are many interesting points in your previous post. --- Robert Watson ha scritto: > > And, don't forget that the author of svk is a FreeBSD user :-). > :-). FWIW, I don't see Subversion, or any other alternative, replacing Perforce in the short run, but I rhink it would be important to seek a replacement path for CVS and it's weakneses (one of them... being basicly unmaintained and non-evolving). Here is a link on KDE's change that seems interesting, at least in showing that moving is possible: http://dot.kde.org/1115285369 Pedro. ___________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: chiama da PC a telefono a tariffe esclusive http://it.messenger.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 19:41:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8C516A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:41:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7962443D70 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:41:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 461E3E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:40:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:40:30 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:41:14 -0000 According to Alec Berryman: > Branches and tags are both implemented in terms of an underlying "copy" > operation. A copy takes up a small, constant amount of space. Any copy > is a tag; and if you start committing on a copy, then it's a branch as > well. (This does away with CVS's "branch-point tagging", by removing the > distinction that made branch-point tags necessary in the first place.)" But you don't know when (time or changeset based) you did branch something. This is bad IMO. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 20:43:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CCF16A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:43:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA7543D53; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:43:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 503F152B6; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:47 -0600 To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20060304204347.GA27362@soaustin.net> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com, Duane Whitty , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:43:48 -0000 On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 05:26:29PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > A tag is actually a branch which the developers agree not to commit to; > this may seem strange, but can actually be advantageous in the rare-but- > not-unheard-of case where we need to "slide" a tag, since Subversion > will maintain a history of that slide. The case of sliding tags during a ports thaw is not even at all rare, hardly even barely. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 20:43:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CCF16A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:43:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA7543D53; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:43:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 503F152B6; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:47 -0600 To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20060304204347.GA27362@soaustin.net> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603041155.33813.duane@greenmeadow.ca> <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <864q2erxai.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: arch@freebsd.org, pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com, Duane Whitty , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:43:48 -0000 On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 05:26:29PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > A tag is actually a branch which the developers agree not to commit to; > this may seem strange, but can actually be advantageous in the rare-but- > not-unheard-of case where we need to "slide" a tag, since Subversion > will maintain a history of that slide. The case of sliding tags during a ports thaw is not even at all rare, hardly even barely. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:12:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCB716A430 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:12:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from noackjr@alumni.rice.edu) Received: from smtp105.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp105.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.174]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C17EB43DA7 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:12:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from noackjr@alumni.rice.edu) Received: (qmail 86205 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2006 21:12:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO optimator.noacks.org) (noackjr@supercrime.org@24.99.22.177 with login) by smtp105.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2006 21:12:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimator.noacks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC6E6129; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimator.noacks.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (optimator.noacks.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 08410-09; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from compgeek.noacks.org (compgeek [192.168.1.10]) by optimator.noacks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883FC60F3; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by compgeek.noacks.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24LBxXm045227; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:12:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from noackjr@alumni.rice.edu) Message-ID: <440A0299.9070500@alumni.rice.edu> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:11:53 -0500 From: Jonathan Noack User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mathieu Arnold References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <7178FA2107AAD281CC1521D0@cc-126-240.int.t-online.fr> In-Reply-To: <7178FA2107AAD281CC1521D0@cc-126-240.int.t-online.fr> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: id=991D8195; url=http://www.noacks.org/cert/noackjr.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig23778C9BDFBCBECF11835077" X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at noacks.org Cc: Maxime Henrion , arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: noackjr@alumni.rice.edu List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:12:32 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig23778C9BDFBCBECF11835077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/04/06 03:59, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > +-le 01/03/2006 18:03 +0100, Maxime Henrion =E9crivait : > | the only features missing are : > |=20 > | - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this), >=20 > That's only used by all the cvsup servers connecting to cvsup-master :-= ) Yes, but don't forget that those machines are functioning as cvsup servers (not yet supported by csup) and using CVS mode (also not yet supported by csup) to pull from cvsup-master. Authentication is the least of the missing features in that environment. -Jonathan --=20 Jonathan Noack | noackjr@alumni.rice.edu | OpenPGP: 0x991D8195 --------------enig23778C9BDFBCBECF11835077 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFECgKfUFz01pkdgZURAnVTAKDKBnbeXTImIvhvctfVanSgt1/ElACfYpIA E1G+NHSRtDp6M4H7nPwhVWY= =DVOG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig23778C9BDFBCBECF11835077-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:12:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E3116A429 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:12:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82BC43D45 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:12:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24LCPxZ086641; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:12:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <440A02C2.2060909@samsco.org> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:12:34 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20051230 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert References: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com> <20060304163522.GB912@tara.freenix.org> In-Reply-To: <20060304163522.GB912@tara.freenix.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:12:34 -0000 Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Joseph Koshy: > >>A 'distributed' VCS with good support for branching and merging would >>ease the work of our non-committer volunteers. > > > And RE's work by not freezing trees. And all developpers' work by having > the trees not frozen for weeks. The release process is just an important as the normal development process. We could completely do away with code freezes and let people commit just like normal. There is little technical reason to have a code freeze. HOWEVER The purpose of the code freeze is to slow down developers and get them thinking more about what they are doing and focusing more on bugs rather than new features. This has nothing to do with the limitations or features of the VCS in use, it is purely a management tool. We could be use OMG-VCS that cooks breakfast and does your laundry as well as is the best VCS software on the planet, and there would still be code freezes. So, please do not drag RE into this as a justification for anything. K, thx. Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:18:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFB316A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:18:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from mx2.tue.nl (mx2.tue.nl [131.155.3.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B2243D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:18:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA3B679CF; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:18:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx2.tue.nl ([131.155.3.6]) by localhost (rommeldam.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62970-04; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:18:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from umta.win.tue.nl (umta.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mx2.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FF7679B6; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:18:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002 [131.155.71.72]) by umta.win.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16ABD31401C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:18:27 +0100 (CET) Received: by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0C64640CE; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:18:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:18:27 +0100 From: Stijn Hoop To: Ollivier Robert Message-ID: <20060304211826.GC46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304173804.GA11891@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20060304174506.GC912@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GID0FwUMdk1T2AWN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304174506.GC912@tara.freenix.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:18:28 -0000 --GID0FwUMdk1T2AWN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 06:45:06PM +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Steve Kargl: > > svn on a specific day. A handy little wiki to get familiar with > > svn is http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/SvnHelp. >=20 > It was also said that they switched to a centralised vcs was to make > forking the project more difficult. What a load of FUD. Check out svk (http://svk.elixus.org/) to see why. (Hint: svk repo's are just subversion repo's with some properties). --Stijn --=20 "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw." -- Lilo, "Disney's Lilo & Stitch" --GID0FwUMdk1T2AWN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFECgQiY3r/tLQmfWcRAn9tAKCmrjxxqY32x6LUNcUoraNYWeQJbgCgqUCV LWugvVbRcqOh1kB4L0E7jHA= =0knU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GID0FwUMdk1T2AWN-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:23:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2DE16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:23:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CE743D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:23:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 9BA61E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:22:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:22:30 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20060304212230.GA3408@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060303082016.GA17730@stud.fit.vutbr.cz> <25963.1141377749@critter.freebsd.dk> <84dead720603030303p122ea0efn892bf9ffd32fce41@mail.gmail.com> <20060304163522.GB912@tara.freenix.org> <440A02C2.2060909@samsco.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <440A02C2.2060909@samsco.org> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:23:12 -0000 According to Scott Long: > So, please do not drag RE into this as a justification for anything. > K, thx. Well, I am not dragging anybody anywhere but a system that ease merging between branches would help maintaining things in separate branches during freezes. Also, having only one vcs for projects and main trees would also help merging from projects with keeping all the history of changes, and so on. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:24:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846A516A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:24:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from mx1.tue.nl (mx1.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F055243D46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:24:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B353F5F2; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx1.tue.nl ([131.155.2.7]) by localhost (bommelstein.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75044-08; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from umta.win.tue.nl (umta.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mx1.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14F43F5EA; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002 [131.155.71.72]) by umta.win.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD98731401C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A43A6410E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:23 +0100 From: Stijn Hoop To: Ollivier Robert Message-ID: <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+nBD6E3TurpgldQp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:24:25 -0000 --+nBD6E3TurpgldQp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 08:40:30PM +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Alec Berryman: > > Branches and tags are both implemented in terms of an underlying "copy" > > operation. A copy takes up a small, constant amount of space. Any copy > > is a tag; and if you start committing on a copy, then it's a branch as > > well. (This does away with CVS's "branch-point tagging", by removing the > > distinction that made branch-point tags necessary in the first place.)" >=20 > But you don't know when (time or changeset based) you did branch somethin= g. > This is bad IMO. Eh? Where did you get that impression? Did you test this? %%% [stijn@tangaloor] <~> svn log -r 415 https://svn.sandcat.nl/repos/sws/tags/= SWS_0_4_2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r415 | stijn | 2005-01-06 12:21:04 +0100 (Thu, 06 Jan 2005) | 3 lines - Tag 0.4.2 for BCF use [stijn@tangaloor] <~> svn log https://svn.sandcat.nl/repos/sws/tags/SWS_0_4= _2/include/main.php ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r415 | stijn | 2005-01-06 12:21:04 +0100 (Thu, 06 Jan 2005) | 3 lines - Tag 0.4.2 for BCF use ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r411 | stijn | 2004-12-07 13:57:39 +0100 (Tue, 07 Dec 2004) | 20 lines =2E.. %%% Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but that seems to me to be the information you were looking for. Now, like I wrote earlier, IMO all current vcs's store enough information about 'changesets' so that converting them is rather more trivial than converting anything from RCS/CVS to a current vcs. I like Subversion myself but it's possible that there's a better fit for the project. But like Robert wrote, someone will have to set up a real repository etc. before anyone can knowledgeably comment on the use for the FreeBSD project. --Stijn --=20 "An adult is a child who has more ethics and morals, that's all." -- Shigeru Miyamoto --+nBD6E3TurpgldQp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFECgWHY3r/tLQmfWcRAsj1AJ9EnszpX5paVuowo9UOBLr8KZbHgACgj0yr 6VgQHCe2hfNZSFRHibIkfvc= =r2r2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+nBD6E3TurpgldQp-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:26:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0011716A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:26:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21B343D68 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:26:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 912C7E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:25:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:25:39 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Stijn Hoop Message-ID: <20060304212539.GB3408@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304173804.GA11891@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20060304174506.GC912@tara.freenix.org> <20060304211826.GC46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304211826.GC46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:26:22 -0000 According to Stijn Hoop: > Check out svk (http://svk.elixus.org/) to see why. I know about svk, some people have been very insistent about that :) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:30:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A72F16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:30:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6EC43D45 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:30:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 9E653E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:29:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:29:55 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Stijn Hoop Message-ID: <20060304212955.GC3408@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:30:36 -0000 According to Stijn Hoop: > but it's possible that there's a better fit for the project. But like > Robert wrote, someone will have to set up a real repository etc. before > anyone can knowledgeably comment on the use for the FreeBSD project. Check out http://hg.fr.freebsd.org/ for Mercurial repos of the FreeBSD CVS ones. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:34:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36D416A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:34:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from mx2.tue.nl (mx2.tue.nl [131.155.3.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907D943D76 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:34:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF486789E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx2.tue.nl ([131.155.3.6]) by localhost (rommeldam.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63054-07; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from umta.win.tue.nl (umta.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mx2.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B51E67895; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002 [131.155.71.72]) by umta.win.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7837131401C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 75CB6410E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:17 +0100 From: Stijn Hoop To: Ollivier Robert Message-ID: <20060304213417.GF46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <20060304212955.GC3408@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304212955.GC3408@tara.freenix.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:34:28 -0000 --N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 10:29:55PM +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Stijn Hoop: > > but it's possible that there's a better fit for the project. But like > > Robert wrote, someone will have to set up a real repository etc. before > > anyone can knowledgeably comment on the use for the FreeBSD project. >=20 > Check out http://hg.fr.freebsd.org/ for Mercurial repos of the FreeBSD CVS > ones. Yeah, I saw that earlier in the thread. However it appears to only contain -CURRENT; I would think that it's actually doable to create a Subversion -CURRENT mirror too right now (not easy though). The real problems appear while converting and tracking all the releases, security branches, vendor branches and other weirdness in the CVS repository. --Stijn --=20 I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There's a k= nob called `brightness', but it doesn't work." -- Gallagher --N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFECgfZY3r/tLQmfWcRAiUNAKCF6wgG5t6x28cRSwd0WaxCU6eDOQCdEhcv Fn3/y+VQRWJzg8Mn6kJUQ6U= =V1Yc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 21:35:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F42516A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:35:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [193.30.224.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB62643D62; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:34:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (rke75-1-87-88-108-35.dsl.club-internet.fr [87.88.108.35]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by plouf.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFF74A9C02; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:34:58 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:34:56 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: noackjr@alumni.rice.edu Message-ID: <0EAC38C564779916A9AEEA29@[192.168.1.5]> In-Reply-To: <440A0299.9070500@alumni.rice.edu> References: <20060301170306.GZ55746@elvis.mu.org> <7178FA2107AAD281CC1521D0@cc-126-240.int.t-online.fr> <440A0299.9070500@alumni.rice.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Maxime Henrion , arch@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:35:00 -0000 +-Le 04/03/2006 16:11 -0500, Jonathan Noack a dit : | On 03/04/06 03:59, Mathieu Arnold wrote: |> +-le 01/03/2006 18:03 +0100, Maxime Henrion =E9crivait : |> | the only features missing are : |> |=20 |> | - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this), |>=20 |> That's only used by all the cvsup servers connecting to cvsup-master :-) |=20 | Yes, but don't forget that those machines are functioning as cvsup | servers (not yet supported by csup) and using CVS mode (also not yet | supported by csup) to pull from cvsup-master. Authentication is the | least of the missing features in that environment. Oh, I should have taken a look at csup features :-) --=20 Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 22:00:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC8116A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:00:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@FreeBSD.org) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [193.30.224.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D41F43D48 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:00:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mat@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (rke75-1-87-88-108-35.dsl.club-internet.fr [87.88.108.35]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by plouf.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE6F4A9B7D; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:00:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:00:18 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: Stijn Hoop , Ollivier Robert Message-ID: <2FA33AC357E7BC6576A6A8ED@[192.168.1.5]> In-Reply-To: <20060304213417.GF46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <20060304212955.GC3408@tara.freenix.org> <20060304213417.GF46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========1509970B119EFD6076F7==========" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:00:24 -0000 --==========1509970B119EFD6076F7========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +-Le 04/03/2006 22:34 +0100, Stijn Hoop a dit : | On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 10:29:55PM +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: |> According to Stijn Hoop: |> > but it's possible that there's a better fit for the project. But like |> > Robert wrote, someone will have to set up a real repository etc. before |> > anyone can knowledgeably comment on the use for the FreeBSD project. |> |> Check out http://hg.fr.freebsd.org/ for Mercurial repos of the FreeBSD |> CVS ones. | | Yeah, I saw that earlier in the thread. However it appears to only | contain -CURRENT; I would think that it's actually doable to create a | Subversion -CURRENT mirror too right now (not easy though). | | The real problems appear while converting and tracking all the | releases, security branches, vendor branches and other weirdness in | the CVS repository. It contains only current because of mainly lack of time, and lack of, hum, people asking for something else. I's mainly as a proof of concept, even though I use it from time to time. -- Mathieu Arnold --==========1509970B119EFD6076F7========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) iD8DBQFECg31JqR8av5thQ8RArOxAKCMrq3tyO1VMUII6ppxjBc65XxWuQCg46X8 BdaTON8OHs4uGSLwN6Laibo= =HomZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========1509970B119EFD6076F7==========-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 22:14:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F89016A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:14:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [82.224.56.155]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352B043D4C for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:14:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 45867E; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:13:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:13:57 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: Stijn Hoop Message-ID: <20060304221357.GB3804@tara.freenix.org> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <20060304212955.GC3408@tara.freenix.org> <20060304213417.GF46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060304213417.GF46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> X-Operating-System: MacOS X / PowerBook G4 - FreeBSD 5.0 / 2x PIII/800 SMP User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:14:39 -0000 According to Stijn Hoop: > The real problems appear while converting and tracking all the > releases, security branches, vendor branches and other weirdness in > the CVS repository. Weirdness aside, the current conversion tools to Hg do not convert branches (or tags) so yes, it is a problem for src, not for www/doc/ports which are not branched. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.9.0: Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 22:17:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6520716A420; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:17:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from mx1.tue.nl (mx1.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024EC43D69; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:17:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC1B3F517; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:17:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx1.tue.nl ([131.155.2.7]) by localhost (bommelstein.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 77806-01; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:17:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from umta.win.tue.nl (umta.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.100]) by mx1.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E133F4C6; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:17:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002 [131.155.71.72]) by umta.win.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6D531401C; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:17:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 59ED040CE; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:17:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:17:00 +0100 From: Stijn Hoop To: Mathieu Arnold Message-ID: <20060304221700.GG46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <20060304212955.GC3408@tara.freenix.org> <20060304213417.GF46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <2FA33AC357E7BC6576A6A8ED@[192.168.1.5]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QNDPHrPUIc00TOLW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2FA33AC357E7BC6576A6A8ED@[192.168.1.5]> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:17:12 -0000 --QNDPHrPUIc00TOLW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 11:00:18PM +0100, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > +-Le 04/03/2006 22:34 +0100, Stijn Hoop a dit : > | On Sat, Mar 04, 2006 at 10:29:55PM +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote: > |> According to Stijn Hoop: > |> > but it's possible that there's a better fit for the project. But like > |> > Robert wrote, someone will have to set up a real repository etc. bef= ore > |> > anyone can knowledgeably comment on the use for the FreeBSD project. > |>=20 > |> Check out http://hg.fr.freebsd.org/ for Mercurial repos of the FreeBSD > |> CVS ones. > |=20 > | Yeah, I saw that earlier in the thread. However it appears to only > | contain -CURRENT; I would think that it's actually doable to create a > | Subversion -CURRENT mirror too right now (not easy though). > |=20 > | The real problems appear while converting and tracking all the > | releases, security branches, vendor branches and other weirdness in > | the CVS repository. >=20 > It contains only current because of mainly lack of time, and lack of, hum, > people asking for something else. I's mainly as a proof of concept, even > though I use it from time to time. I'm not trying to slight your work here; I think it's great that people explore alternatives to CVS, as I've tried to with Subversion in the past. I know it's non-trivial to convert "only" HEAD to another vcs. Like I wrote to Robert Olivier in a private e-mail I will check out Mercurial to see what it's like, probably using this mirror. But I do think that trying to convince people to completely switch over to another vcs, be it Subversion, Mercurial or something else entirely, won't work without a conversion that includes everything from the source repository [1]. Only that way can people test their workflows (branching a release, doing security merges, sliding ports tags, etc) for real. For 'perforce like' project development, having a -CURRENT mirror like you set up will allow people to at least check out another vcs, but IMHO it isn't enough for people to be able to tell whether a vcs can replace CVS for the whole repository. --Stijn [1] well I personally could live without some of the cruft, for example all OLD_OLD_OLD_... "branches" that appear because of repocopies. But that's a discussion for another day :-) --=20 Q: Why is Batman better than Bill Gates? A: Batman was able to beat the Penguin. --QNDPHrPUIc00TOLW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEChHcY3r/tLQmfWcRAs9nAJ0b/UMvFuFb71y5wDfKoekxT6W8OACgtwte Z0oJjPYMYFI0zYhG33L/PTw= =hvSz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QNDPHrPUIc00TOLW-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 4 23:42:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6193A16A420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:42:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tamaru@myn.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp) Received: from mail0.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (mail0.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.50.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FF543D49 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:42:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tamaru@myn.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp) Received: from spam001.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (spam001.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp [133.11.50.194]) by mail0.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A5C57C0B5 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:42:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from 157.82.72.158 (157.82.72.158 [157.82.72.158]) by spam001.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp (SpamBlock.pst 3.4.90.0) with ESMTP id for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:42:18 +0900 Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:42:18 +0900 Message-ID: From: Hiroharu Tamaru To: Stijn Hoop In-Reply-To: <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20060304141957.14716.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060304152433.W61086@fledge.watson.org> <20060304174835.GA58184@thened.net> <20060304194030.GA2826@tara.freenix.org> <20060304212423.GD46967@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-IP: 157.82.72.158 X-FROM-DOMAIN: myn.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp X-FROM-EMAIL: tamaru@myn.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Subversion? (Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:42:58 -0000 Allow me to just jump in... At Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:24:23 +0100, Stijn Hoop wrote: > > But you don't know when (time or changeset based) you did branch something. > > This is bad IMO. > > Eh? Where did you get that impression? Did you test this? > > %%% > [stijn@tangaloor] <~> svn log -r 415 https://svn.sandcat.nl/repos/sws/tags/SWS_0_4_2 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > r415 | stijn | 2005-01-06 12:21:04 +0100 (Thu, 06 Jan 2005) | 3 lines > > - Tag 0.4.2 for BCF use > > [stijn@tangaloor] <~> svn log https://svn.sandcat.nl/repos/sws/tags/SWS_0_4_2/include/main.php > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > r415 | stijn | 2005-01-06 12:21:04 +0100 (Thu, 06 Jan 2005) | 3 lines > > - Tag 0.4.2 for BCF use > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > r411 | stijn | 2004-12-07 13:57:39 +0100 (Tue, 07 Dec 2004) | 20 lines > > ... > %%% > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but that seems to me to be the > information you were looking for. Yes, you can find out where your banches came from, but IIRC, you cannot find out what happened to all the branches, when you are looking at it from the trunk, or what's happening on trunk by looking at a branch. I find it invaluable to see which feature is backported to which branches when I look into the FreeBSD cvsweb pages. Is there any way, when you specify https://svn.sandcat.nl/repos/sws/trunk/include/main.php ~~~~~~~ that you'd know if there are any branches that have this file forked off from its trunk version, or know if and when the change made at revision foo (on trunk) was merged to a branch by looking at the log on the *trunk side* (you need it especially when you are not aware that such a branch exists). I assume the latter would be solved when they support 'real-merging' (as they plan to), but what about the former? I'd loved to prooved wrong, since this is about the only thing I miss with subversion. Or, well, vendor-branch may be another one.. Has the 'import' function changed to allow an update to a vendor branch now, or do you need 'svn remove' on each deleted file and 'svn add' on each added file? -- Hiroharu Tamaru