From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 00:44:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3FE16A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:44:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbell@stelesys.com) Received: from stelesys.com (web3.stelesys.com [63.175.100.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A8543D46 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:44:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jbell@stelesys.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=www.stelesys.com) by stelesys.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1GYu6r-000FmO-12; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:44:09 -0400 Received: from 71.56.92.181 (SquirrelMail authenticated user jbell@stelesys.com) by www.stelesys.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1227.71.56.92.181.1160873049.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061013161851.14c2f978@sentex.net> References: <3731.71.56.92.181.1160009571.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <45255A36.5010108@quip.cz> <2840.71.56.92.181.1160090644.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <452603CA.8070800@thebeastie.org> <4472.209.134.164.20.1160162446.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20061013161851.14c2f978@sentex.net> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:44:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Bell" To: "Mike Tancsa" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6-rc1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help with improving mysql performance on 6.2PRE X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:44:10 -0000 I will do some testing tonight with variations in the my.cnf file and post the results tomorrow. > At 03:20 PM 10/6/2006, Jerry Bell wrote: >>I have actually made the changes to my.cnf before I ran these. I >> expanded >>them quite a bit beyond what is in my-large.cnf. I need to pull them >> back > > Hi, > I was just looking at this thread as its relevant to a new > DB server I am trying to put together. For the archives, can you post > what you found to be your optimal configuration for mysql on 6.2 ? > > ---Mike > > From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 03:11:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05FC16A412 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 03:11:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E6043D45 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 03:11:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) Received: from ap-h.matik.com.br (ap-h.matik.com.br [200.152.83.36]) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9F3BZda047266 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:11:35 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) From: NOC Meganet Organization: Prowip Telecom Ltda To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:12:08 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610150012.08600.tec@mega.net.br> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 03:11:38 -0000 On Saturday 14 October 2006 17:13, Danial Thom wrote: > The fact that a processor has 2 cores doesn't > mean you have to use them, just like a MB with 2 > sockets doesn't need both to be used. If the OS > is faster with 1 processor than 2, then you only > use one of the cores. The concept that you have > to fire up both of them just because they're > there is just stupid. > you also can pick yourself in one eye and still can see with the other or you can cut one leg and hop around on the other, great ideas you have so then your smart tip is running 4.11-UP on Tyan S4882D with 4 Opterons 8xx dual-core? mhhh ... > Freebsd 4.11 is dead because of a stupid decision > but people who thought that MP would have been > working 2 years ago. They continue to not be able > to promise any scalability in the foreseeable > future, so maybe they need to revisit the > decision. > yes! and I also prefere horses with wagons instead of red V12 cars and even this guys know that horses are better and put a horse into their logo ... > "supporting" 4.11 only means making it work with > new devices, not porting everything back. The > only things necessary would be SATA and a bunch > of NICs. Most MBs work with 4.x so its not a big > maintenance project. > you just bought yourself your lifetime project, when do you start? Hans -- Prowip Telecom Ltda AS 22706 A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 03:45:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8215C16A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 03:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD2843D45 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 03:45:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) Received: from ap-h.matik.com.br (ap-h.matik.com.br [200.152.83.36]) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9F3j9dR048465 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:45:09 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) From: NOC Meganet Organization: Prowip Telecom Ltda To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:45:42 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <20061014130331.68863.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200610141313.28868.tec@mega.net.br> <20061014180518.GA75972@Geeks.ORG> In-Reply-To: <20061014180518.GA75972@Geeks.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610150045.42927.tec@mega.net.br> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 03:45:11 -0000 On Saturday 14 October 2006 15:05, Mike Horwath wrote: > > I would say this preference is mostly set by beeing afraid of > > migration (lots of things can come up when migrating a production > > server) or by lack of money to buy some nasty HW ... > > Ah, hardware bigotry. =A0Your colors are showing. > come on, it is what it is and performance in first place comes from the=20 hardware, it doesn't matter how hard you blow the elephant's ass without=20 wings the beast do not fly > > > SATA (of any gen) still does not perform like SCSI. =A0Let's just look > > > at spindle speed alone ignoring the other benefits of SCSI. > > > > I had no time to test it on a life webserver and probably can't do > > it so soon but I tell you that a 10K Raptor is faster then a 15K > > 320Mb SCSI when compiling world or untarring large files. Also NCQ > > is not reserved to SCSI anymore so when you see the price then it is > > becoming a valid option for small servers. > > And your testing methodogy was...what? counting Universal Time Units from beginning of the process until the end o= f=20 the process Hans =2D- Prowip Telecom Ltda AS 22706 A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 06:10:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7017016A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 06:10:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drbrain@segment7.net) Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [207.154.84.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE4E43D58 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 06:10:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drbrain@segment7.net) Received: from [10.101.28.67] (ziz.jijo.segment7.net [216.254.21.90]) by toxic.magnesium.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6963DDA8B7; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:10:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20061013201321.GA774@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <3731.71.56.92.181.1160009571.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <200610120925.k9C9PmUK048690@lurza.secnetix.de> <20061012205342.GA62241@xor.obsecurity.org> <9500A2C9-07EB-4EEA-9477-9E6B4BFEB437@mac.com> <20061013201321.GA774@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <39EF1C01-351F-4952-9E9E-0D6A2DBE69C3@segment7.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Hodel Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:10:48 -0700 To: Kris Kennaway X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Cc: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help with improving mysql performance on 6.2PRE X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 06:10:53 -0000 On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Fri, Oct 13, 2006 at 11:49:04AM -0700, Chuck Swiger wrote: >> On Oct 13, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Eric Hodel wrote: >>>>> Or did that change recently? >>>> >>>> It's only on certain systems, apparently. >>> >>> Is there a list of systems where it is safe to use the TSC with >>> SMP? Or some script we can run? >> >> The problem of the TSC clocks getting out of sync affects pretty much >> all AMD X2 dual-core CPUs, as well as the older 32-bit Althon MP >> CPUs; the Intel Xeon and Core Duo CPUs seem to do a lot better, >> although older Intel CPUs have also been reported to show problems >> with the TSC. > > Beyond that, just see if it works ;-) How "safe" is it to switch timecounters? I don't have a spare machine to test on... From my readings on switching the TSC over the past several months I think that if it doesn't work I'll see is ntpd adjusting my system clock more often (or falling out of sync). I don't know if this will corrupt mysql while its running though (which is my fear). FWIW I have a "Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 270". -- Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant http://trackmap.robotcoop.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 11:56:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F83816A415 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:56:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-performance@dfmm.org) Received: from dfmm.org (treehorn.dfmm.org [66.180.195.213]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1E243D46 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:56:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-performance@dfmm.org) Received: (qmail 37045 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Oct 2006 11:56:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 15 Oct 2006 11:56:10 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 04:56:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Stone X-X-Sender: jason@treehorn.dfmm.org To: NOC Prowip In-Reply-To: <200610141113.25155.tec@mega.net.br> Message-ID: <20061015042016.C2780@treehorn.dfmm.org> References: <20061014130331.68863.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200610141113.25155.tec@mega.net.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:56:13 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Hi, I am hooking in here without any intention to fire things up but isn 't > this discussion certainly useless? Not only 4.11 is gone but also i386 is > practically marked to die out as well as UP systems are. All platforms are > going to be 64bits and memory of 4GB or more is not so rare anymore. you're only thinking about "pc's" - you're forgetting that there are general-purpose processors in wireless routers, mobile phones, mp3 players, car navigation systems, etc, etc, and these are probably not going to be "64bits and memory of 4GB or more" any time soon. for my home firewall/router, I used to use a general-purpose machine in a full-sized atx case, with lots of fans, and a 400W power supply. I switched to a soekris box, which is completely tiny, completely silent, and draws about 8W, and it paid for itself in reduced power bills in a couple of months. this box is also probably not going to be "64bits and memory of 4GB or more" any time soon either.... -Jason -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) Comment: See https://private.idealab.com/public/jason/jason.gpg iD8DBQFFMiHaswXMWWtptckRAjWEAJ0aj3oFK/GdD80Jq+BL8qzD+f4ULwCg3p5o hMc+z+S/OQWznLGVWCUkx50= =v2O8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 13:29:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A1916A416 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:29:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AF7243D73 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:29:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30868 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Oct 2006 13:29:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=sky9OOJk1YiTZ5i8Y5uDr/xWRnZJM5Ax+LD485VFipkkoV2/sC2gw18Q1dzjZ2Joby/nw8JSyURo8/8H3XAojY54+zd14QisYTbZVPmoB+4iP+i6DfttvfAn6Ek3r3hLMEXPwV34dhPkf/j+AecDGYDgmf8gLhtD5zLEI60ypUs= ; Message-ID: <20061015132910.30866.qmail@web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 06:29:10 PDT Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 06:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: NOC Meganet , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, performance@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200610150010.59782.tec@mega.net.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:29:11 -0000 --- NOC Meganet wrote: > On Saturday 14 October 2006 17:13, Danial Thom > wrote: > > The fact that a processor has 2 cores doesn't > > mean you have to use them, just like a MB > with 2 > > sockets doesn't need both to be used. If the > OS > > is faster with 1 processor than 2, then you > only > > use one of the cores. The concept that you > have > > to fire up both of them just because they're > > there is just stupid. > > > > you also can pick yourself in one eye and still > can see with the other or you > can cut one leg and hop around on the other, > great ideas you have Wait, this is interesting. So even though you can demonstrate that for most large networking tasks 2 cores is actually slower than 1, you still use 2 cores? Yikes. All of the clowns that called themselves networking gurus running MP systems in 4.x continue to be clowns in general. I guess if you don't understand the concepts, then you have no chance of every being any good at anything > > so then your smart tip is running 4.11-UP on > Tyan S4882D with 4 Opterons 8xx > dual-core? mhhh ... No, my smart tip is to buy hardware that suits the operating system and the task. I can get better performance than you with a single 2.8Ghz opteron running 4.x for $1000 less per system. If you use that hardware with Freebsd, you are a clown, pure and simple, big red nose and all. You just have no idea what you're doing and your wasting either your or your company's money. If you bought that hardward anticipating that 7+ or 8+ or whatever they're saying now might be able to use it thats one thing, but wasting money on big honking hardware that isn't faster than less expensive hardware is just plain stupid. > > > Freebsd 4.11 is dead because of a stupid > decision > > but people who thought that MP would have > been > > working 2 years ago. They continue to not be > able > > to promise any scalability in the foreseeable > > future, so maybe they need to revisit the > > decision. > > > > yes! and I also prefere horses with wagons > instead of red V12 cars and even > this guys know that horses are better and put a > horse into their logo ... The fallacy of your analogy is that the red cars can beat the horse and buggy in a race. Unfortunately, FreeBSD 6.x with 4 processors can't beat 4.x with one, which is the entire point of this thread. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 14:03:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875B216A4C8 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:03:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.128]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F2B2643D6B for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:03:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 74480 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Oct 2006 14:03:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pmQf18W3TJGiDo03XxMpGfB1je854Zyx19se5uaSr52l+IveiO5k5wMH+9/ypZ6QjcHGRkN0k0sz5Kv6NLq4HdEjg1I6oJ90OFoNGSfs6m30G3D24Ia6XSfQXRK6bz3D8m8vtXsERj4IWza86YBpCSqZNfIaeoeO3MWiS0Q/bSE= ; Message-ID: <20061015140304.74478.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:03:04 PDT Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:03:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: Mike Horwath In-Reply-To: <20061014211914.GA79862@Geeks.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: tec@mega.net.br, freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:03:06 -0000 --- Mike Horwath wrote: > On Sat, Oct 14, 2006 at 01:30:02PM -0700, > Danial Thom wrote: > > You should try the new 10K WD drives (the > ones that just came > > out). They kick butt. Unfortunately, I'd > have to use FreeBSD 6 to > > use them, so I have to stick with SCSI on 4.x > to get maximum > > performance. > > You are so completely wrong. > > The 10K WD disks are fully usuable under > FreeBSD 4.x. > > In fact, I have more than 8 systems doing such, > using 10K WD Raptor > drives and FreeBSD 4.11-STABLE. > > Where do people come up with these statements? We come from Earth; we're just more informed. The WD740ADFD's do NOT work on Freebsd 4.x. I'm sure you are talking about the WD740GD. I DID say the NEW ones. They are a lot faster than the GDs. I used them with FreeBSD 4.x with an Areca SATA card and they performed similarly to 15K Fujitsu SCSIs on a heavily loaded squid system. Also when you are using a SATA drive that *works* in 4.x its running in some reduced transfer mode, so you can't expect to get optimal performance or anything close. So "works" is almost a euphemism for "doesn't barf", but they don't really work well no matter how good the drive is. For my needs, its cheaper to go with SCSI than to buy the sata card as there's only about a $250. difference in the SCSI hardware, and I don't use up my slot. Hence, the silliness of operating in the FreeBSD camp. Note that the drives work with 6.x but squid performance doesn't measure up, so again, 4.x with SCSI is the best bang for the buck choice. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 14:46:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824A216A40F for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:46:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: from mail.geeks.org (jacobs.Geeks.ORG [204.153.247.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 345C743D46 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:46:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9221D15908E; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:46:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:46:38 -0500 From: Mike Horwath To: NOC Meganet Message-ID: <20061015144638.GB98831@Geeks.ORG> Mail-Followup-To: NOC Meganet , freebsd-performance@freebsd.org References: <20061014130331.68863.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200610141313.28868.tec@mega.net.br> <20061014180518.GA75972@Geeks.ORG> <200610150045.42927.tec@mega.net.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200610150045.42927.tec@mega.net.br> X-PGP-Fingerprint: D8 24 CC E6 47 5F E4 60 BF B7 6E FA BF C7 6E C5 X-GPG-Fingerprint: 6A89 E78A B8B1 69D9 8CDB E966 4A5A C3F9 A1B0 C381 User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r804 (FreeBSD) Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:46:39 -0000 On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 12:45:42AM -0300, NOC Meganet wrote: > On Saturday 14 October 2006 15:05, Mike Horwath wrote: > > > I would say this preference is mostly set by beeing afraid of > > > migration (lots of things can come up when migrating a production > > > server) or by lack of money to buy some nasty HW ... > > > > Ah, hardware bigotry.  Your colors are showing. > > come on, it is what it is and performance in first place comes from > the hardware, it doesn't matter how hard you blow the elephant's ass > without wings the beast do not fly There are many reasons why a 32bit OS will be needed, even on a 64bit hardware platform. Just because it says performance does not mean it must be the latest and greatest. Are you sure you aren't a plant from the Linux community? > > > > SATA (of any gen) still does not perform like SCSI.  Let's just look > > > > at spindle speed alone ignoring the other benefits of SCSI. > > > > > > I had no time to test it on a life webserver and probably can't do > > > it so soon but I tell you that a 10K Raptor is faster then a 15K > > > 320Mb SCSI when compiling world or untarring large files. Also NCQ > > > is not reserved to SCSI anymore so when you see the price then it is > > > becoming a valid option for small servers. > > > > And your testing methodogy was...what? > > counting Universal Time Units from beginning of the process until > the end of the process One metric. Good job. Hope it didn't cause too much sweat. To the rest of the list - sorry for the sarcasm and jabs, I hate when people post ignorance laden messages because they must parrot others. -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau@Geeks.ORG From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 14:47:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E151D16A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:47:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: from mail.geeks.org (jacobs.Geeks.ORG [204.153.247.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957E543D49 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:47:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2AA3A159093; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:47:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:47:45 -0500 From: Mike Horwath To: Jason Stone Message-ID: <20061015144745.GC98831@Geeks.ORG> Mail-Followup-To: Jason Stone , NOC Prowip , freebsd-performance@freebsd.org References: <20061014130331.68863.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200610141113.25155.tec@mega.net.br> <20061015042016.C2780@treehorn.dfmm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061015042016.C2780@treehorn.dfmm.org> X-PGP-Fingerprint: D8 24 CC E6 47 5F E4 60 BF B7 6E FA BF C7 6E C5 X-GPG-Fingerprint: 6A89 E78A B8B1 69D9 8CDB E966 4A5A C3F9 A1B0 C381 User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r804 (FreeBSD) Cc: NOC Prowip , freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:47:46 -0000 On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 04:56:09AM -0700, Jason Stone wrote: > for my home firewall/router, I used to use a general-purpose machine > in a full-sized atx case, with lots of fans, and a 400W power > supply. I switched to a soekris box, which is completely tiny, > completely silent, and draws about 8W, and it paid for itself in > reduced power bills in a couple of months. this box is also > probably not going to be "64bits and memory of 4GB or more" any time > soon either.... Shhh...don't use facts as examples to the contrary. -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau@Geeks.ORG From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 14:57:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEADE16A412 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:57:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E9BF943D46 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:57:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 82800 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Oct 2006 14:57:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=uksZ+cRKTtne2qK+YJ+dCkRFDIuXLwrc0vlbFOvXfUOe33LY9eLFPVilnsZmi/RfmQWjVY4LtKpm7ooLlfN+lON9O73Qxktq7bE1SMk49rjPwwTCpYwWQtILfUbYu8GmqJILW9vQV+7zCdEMS6LudsMSU/+FSxsIqMfOkgSfiGk= ; Message-ID: <20061015145732.82798.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:57:32 PDT Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: Kip Macy , performance@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20061012105249.P77744@demos.bsdclusters.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Alexander Leidinger , FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x (was: e: [fbsd] HEADS UP: FreeBSD 5.3, 5.4, 6.0 EoLs coming soon) X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:57:33 -0000 Hi Kip, Where you a troll when you outlined how your port of FreeBSD 6 to Solaris was so bad that it was virtually unusable? Stating facts is not trolling. The fact that you may not want to hear it is your own problem. I'm fairly certain that you know that every single thing I'm saying is true, but you have some agenda that it doesn't suit. You can't keep promoting this junk they're putting out. You can't just keep kicking the Matt Dillons out of the camp because they think that your design is a piece of crap. At some point you have to come to terms with the fact that your kernel design stinks, or its never going to get fixed. DT --- Kip Macy wrote: > Please do not feed the trolls. > > -Kip > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Danial Thom wrote: > > > > > > > --- Alexander Leidinger > > > wrote: > > > > > Quoting Dan Lukes (from > Thu, 12 > > > Oct 2006 09:43:20 +0200): > > > > > > [moved from security@ to performance@] > > > > > > > The main problem is - 6.x is still not > > > competitive replacement for > > > > 4.x. I'm NOT speaking about old > unsupported > > > hardware - I speaked about > > > > performance in some situation and believe > in > > > it's stability. > > > > > > You can't be sure that a committer has the > > > resources to setup an > > > environment where he is able to reproduce > your > > > performance problems. > > > You on the other hand have hands-on > experience > > > with the performance > > > problem. If you are able to setup a > -current > > > system (because there are > > > changes which may affect performance > already, > > > and it is the place > > > where the nuw stuff will be developt) which > > > exposes the bad behavior, > > > you could make yourself familiar with the > pmc > > > framework > > > (http://wiki.freebsd.org/PmcTools, I'm sure > > > jkoshy@ will help if you > > > have questions) and point out the > bottlenecks > > > on current@ and/or > > > performance@ (something similar happened > for > > > MySQL, and now we have a > > > webpage in the wiki about it). Without such > > > reports, we can't handle > > > the issue. > > > > > > Further discussion about this should happen > in > > > performance@ or current@... > > > > > > Bye, > > > Alexander. > > > > > > > Maybe its just time for the entire FreeBSD > team > > to come out of its world of delusion and come > to > > terms with what every real-life user of > FreeBSD > > knows: In how ever many years of development, > > there is still no good reason to use anything > > other than FreeBSD 4.x except that 4.x > doesn't > > support a lot of newer harder. There is no > > performance advantage in real world > applications > > with multiple processors, and the performance > is > > far worse with 1 processor. > > > > The right thing to do is to port the SATA > support > > and new NIC support back to 4.x and support > both. > > 4.x is far superior on a Uniprocessor system > and > > FreeBSD-5+ may be an entire re-write away > from > > ever being any good at MP. Come to terms with > it, > > PLEASE, because it is the case and saying > > otherwise won't change it. > > > > My prediction is that a year from now we'll > all > > be using DragonflyBSD and you guys will be > > looking for a new bunch of beta-test guinea > pigs. > > > > DT > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 15:05:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF7716A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:05:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: from mail.geeks.org (jacobs.Geeks.ORG [204.153.247.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF2243D45 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:05:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E2DC159099; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:05:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:05:20 -0500 From: Mike Horwath To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20061015150520.GD98831@Geeks.ORG> Mail-Followup-To: Danial Thom , tec@mega.net.br, freebsd-performance@freebsd.org References: <20061014211914.GA79862@Geeks.ORG> <20061015140304.74478.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061015140304.74478.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Fingerprint: D8 24 CC E6 47 5F E4 60 BF B7 6E FA BF C7 6E C5 X-GPG-Fingerprint: 6A89 E78A B8B1 69D9 8CDB E966 4A5A C3F9 A1B0 C381 User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r804 (FreeBSD) Cc: tec@mega.net.br, freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, Mike Horwath Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:05:21 -0000 On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 07:03:04AM -0700, Danial Thom wrote: > We come from Earth; we're just more informed. The > WD740ADFD's do NOT work on Freebsd 4.x. I'm sure > you are talking about the WD740GD. I DID say the > NEW ones. They are a lot faster than the GDs. I > used them with FreeBSD 4.x with an Areca SATA > card and they performed similarly to 15K Fujitsu > SCSIs on a heavily loaded squid system. So you required a SATAII controller for an SATA disk? squid? Sure, somewhat heavy access. How about UseNet? I have 16 WD740ADFD disks in a RAID5 config (with a hot spare even!) that is just cranking along. Economics said I had to go this route, not performance. Since I needed *more* spindles and needed *more* space, I had to go this route. It performs adequately. It replaced the 6x73GB disks at 15KRPM - performance was *much* better with the SCSI, but at 2.7TB per day, I needed *more* retention to feed back to my peers and my internal network. > Also when you are using a SATA drive that *works* > in 4.x its running in some reduced transfer mode, > so you can't expect to get optimal performance or > anything close. So "works" is almost a euphemism > for "doesn't barf", but they don't really work > well no matter how good the drive is. More spew. > For my needs, its cheaper to go with SCSI than to > buy the sata card as there's only about a $250. > difference in the SCSI hardware, and I don't use > up my slot. Hence, the silliness of operating in > the FreeBSD camp. Ah, cheaper, now we know the reason for the difference. It sure isn't performance. > Note that the drives work with 6.x but squid > performance doesn't measure up, so again, 4.x > with SCSI is the best bang for the buck choice. Change controllers and don't be a wank. I went down the path of ARECA controllers for my news spool project (30TB of disk) and the controllers were fast for access, but randomly dropped disks or volumes for no reason I could find. I loved the speed, hated the randomness. I changed down the AMCC path, I lose some performance (not worth posting numbers, it was under 5%), but no more issues. FreeBSD 6, Opteron systems and 64bit. The reason for this part of the post? To show it isn't an issue of not wanting to embrace new hardare/architectures, but that 32bit operating systems and hardware isn't dead, for any of the reasons given so far in this thread. -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau@Geeks.ORG From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 15:10:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFA616A415; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:10:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: from mail.geeks.org (jacobs.Geeks.ORG [204.153.247.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C5443D58; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:10:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drechsau@Geeks.ORG) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4BD46159099; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:10:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:10:23 -0500 From: Mike Horwath To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20061015151023.GE98831@Geeks.ORG> References: <20061012105249.P77744@demos.bsdclusters.com> <20061015145732.82798.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061015145732.82798.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-PGP-Fingerprint: D8 24 CC E6 47 5F E4 60 BF B7 6E FA BF C7 6E C5 X-GPG-Fingerprint: 6A89 E78A B8B1 69D9 8CDB E966 4A5A C3F9 A1B0 C381 User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r804 (FreeBSD) Cc: performance@freebsd.org, Kip Macy , FreeBSD Stable , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x (was: e: [fbsd] HEADS UP: FreeBSD 5.3, 5.4, 6.0 EoLs coming soon) X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:10:25 -0000 On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 07:57:32AM -0700, Danial Thom wrote: > Hi Kip, > > Where you a troll when you outlined how your port > of FreeBSD 6 to Solaris was so bad that it was > virtually unusable? Stating facts is not > trolling. And you crossposted this to performance...why? Kip might be right, you could be a troll. I am not on freebsd-stable. And I do miss Mr. Dillon but I don't think he needs your support, unless you are going to run DragonFly BSD - which I kind of doubt you are since it isn't 64bit and does not fit your latest must be greated mentality. -- Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau@Geeks.ORG From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 16:32:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C7C16A407 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:32:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trodat@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F67543D9C for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:31:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trodat@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id p77so1565489nfc for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:31:58 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=CawcW+l6u3HFTXBw0wTDYsxowS5soO2eB2H+qL2PzpaqPJnnJmQBuQsFhsFRRcQknjGcn1oH0R6tuiWQtLBZWBe3L70bHk2tpdarI5Km+tAmBeZnOdauER8KZtqiaP5z73C6zjZT4/dNKUzx6ERmSYpWYYCYYLr/WyO480WvBP0= Received: by 10.48.254.10 with SMTP id b10mr10674003nfi; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.67.12 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6f4e26b70610150931j4f9ba3f1w8c4b702fecfabcf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:31:58 -0600 From: "RoBeRT B" To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: 4.X vs 5.X && Danial Thom === Waste of Time X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:32:12 -0000 Check out: http://www.google.com/search?q=danial_thom&btnG=Google+Search 1) He starts *wars* in FreeBSD, DragonFly and Linux. 2) His total contribution to Open Source is zero. If these discussions continue, valuable threads are lost with the bantering that is going on here. Obviously he enjoys seeing his name in the context that is up in 'lights.' R. -- Why use Gmail? Cause HOTMAIL SUCKS! If you *STILL* are using HOTMAIL you only have to ask yourself "Why?" From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 16:34:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89A116A407; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:34:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA48943D7B; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:34:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id E61C62DBD; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:34:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:34:16 -0500 To: Danial Thom Message-ID: <20061015163416.GA16592@soaustin.net> References: <20061012105249.P77744@demos.bsdclusters.com> <20061015145732.82798.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20061015145732.82798.qmail@web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:01:52 +0000 Cc: performance@freebsd.org, Kip Macy , FreeBSD Stable , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x (was: e: [fbsd] HEADS UP: FreeBSD 5.3, 5.4, 6.0 EoLs coming soon) X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:34:21 -0000 On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 07:57:32AM -0700, Danial Thom wrote: > Stating facts is not trolling. true, but ... > The fact that you may not want to hear it is your own problem [...] > You can't keep promoting this junk they're putting out. You can't just > keep kicking the Matt Dillons out of the camp because they think that > your design is a piece of crap. At some point you have to come to terms > with the fact that your kernel design stinks [...] ... *is*. I think there are valid points to be made about 4.X vs 5.X vs 6.X (which is why, for the sake of being informative, I wrote an article about it). Performance was also discussed extensively at BSDCan, and a lot of work was done on improvements and ideas were discussed for the next steps to make (e.g.: actual work, not just talk). This work is continuing. But as long as you keep the above tone, I and everyone else who is actually doing the work to advance the project will just ignore you; because, frankly, there's too much work to do and in any case, life is just too short. (I intend to do just that from now on, so I will not be adding any more to this thread. You may have the "last word", if that kind of thing is important to you.) Finally, if you think Matt's design and/or ability to accept criticism is better than ours, then DragonFly is clearly a better choice for you. mcl From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 17:47:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6622016A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:47:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 738B043D69 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:47:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13251 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Oct 2006 17:47:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Bc0yyujHU1eZZJibSIURFgDSUWTfilW6mCg7RCfKIXULkyXpY/VE0caD9xlAc4B+/ywXzeKVp+EqHYZZboj9fyj3re6ajLwZL3nbYj/F5zP810jt8jIwRLox9GK40tjYXFL/sE0uPgWuXsQc0L1yo7AifN1xw+fDHUois+NMVlU= ; Message-ID: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:47:50 PDT Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:47:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: Mark Linimon In-Reply-To: <20061015163416.GA16592@soaustin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Kip Macy , performance@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x (was: e: [fbsd] HEADS UP: FreeBSD 5.3, 5.4, 6.0 EoLs coming soon) X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:47:56 -0000 --- Mark Linimon wrote: > On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 07:57:32AM -0700, > Danial Thom wrote: > > Stating facts is not trolling. > > true, but ... > > > The fact that you may not want to hear it is > your own problem [...] > > You can't keep promoting this junk they're > putting out. You can't just > > keep kicking the Matt Dillons out of the camp > because they think that > > your design is a piece of crap. At some point > you have to come to terms > > with the fact that your kernel design stinks > [...] > > ... *is*. > > I think there are valid points to be made about > 4.X vs 5.X vs 6.X (which > is why, for the sake of being informative, I > wrote an article about it). > Performance was also discussed extensively at > BSDCan, and a lot of work was > done on improvements and ideas were discussed > for the next steps to make > (e.g.: actual work, not just talk). This work > is continuing. > > But as long as you keep the above tone, I and > everyone else who is actually > doing the work to advance the project will just > ignore you; because, frankly, > there's too much work to do and in any case, > life is just too short. (I > intend to do just that from now on, so I will > not be adding any more to this > thread. You may have the "last word", if that > kind of thing is important to > you.) > > Finally, if you think Matt's design and/or > ability to accept criticism is > better than ours, then DragonFly is clearly a > better choice for you. Dragonfly will be a better choice for everyone in a year or so, but as of now there are no choices. The *tone* is caused by the entire user base being lied to over and over, "performance is addressed in the next release", yada, yada, yada. Those of us in the know are tired of it. You're wasting a lot of our time testing this crap over and over. So stop lying. Stop allowing Kris Kennaway to BS everyone on the questions list over and over and calling anyone who speaks the truth a troll. Fess up to your debacle publically because you're affecting people's businesses with your lying, trying to cover your asses and refusing to admit that you are just rambling cluelessly about. There isn't one person on that team that knows how to fix what's wrong, and you're using thousand of people trying to run businesses as guinea pigs. Thats why some of us have a *tone* DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 18:19:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD49D16A403 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:19:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2BE243D58 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:19:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) Received: from anb.matik.com.br (anb.matik.com.br [200.152.88.34] (may be forged)) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9FIJ28k081426; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:19:03 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from tec@mega.net.br) From: NOC Prowip Organization: Prowip Telecom Ltda To: danial_thom@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:18:48 -0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <20061015132910.30866.qmail@web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061015132910.30866.qmail@web33315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610151518.49067.tec@mega.net.br> X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,ISO_7BITS, MONOTONE_WORDS_2_15,MONOTONE_WORDS_3_20 autolearn=no version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: Antispam Datacenter Matik msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:19:09 -0000 On Sunday 15 October 2006 11:29, Danial Thom wrote: > Unfortunately, FreeBSD 6.x with 4 processors > can't beat 4.x with one, which is the entire > point of this thread. well well even if you were that clever guy you pretend to be you're not entitled to offend people with stupid, idiot, clown and other of your famous nonsense technically speaking you are only kicking around the bush and are not contributing anything real beyond odding anything what comes up so long as you're going on to offend people nobody will take you for serious even if you had some point (I hope you have better ones than that above) ... and hey, if you real had some why you are not participating in any core developing and do something for real? you better spend your time learning to talk in an educated manner to people and may get better responses Hans -- Prowip Telecom Ltda AS 22706 A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 18:01:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8976416A403; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imb@protected-networks.net) Received: from alnrmhc14.comcast.net (alnrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.225.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D7943D6D; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:01:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imb@protected-networks.net) Received: from mail.auburn.protected-networks.net ([24.218.145.140]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with ESMTP id <20061015180117b1400j8kppe>; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:01:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.auburn.protected-networks.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail.auburn.protected-networks.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C0E1702A; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (toshi.auburn.protected-networks.net [192.168.1.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Iain Michael Butler", Issuer "Protected Networks Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: imb@mail.auburn.protected-networks.net) by mail.auburn.protected-networks.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5869417029; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:01:09 -0400 (EDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=200509; d=protected-networks.net; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hRWxicT7E0Y12MURq3gTDjatNzbmf0qK9T6aPOZiqopGnbJIxsPvD0BzNcVHqbKSf jent5gYIRsh86XJTgvr1NDkuiifzn9z520qo4//TQTJLR3r3jIZ1D2wRMAInbfo Message-ID: <45327764.2080904@protected-networks.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:01:08 -0400 From: Michael Butler User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20061015) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: danial_thom@yahoo.com References: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: id=0442D492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:01:34 +0000 Cc: performance@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:01:29 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Danial Thom wrote: > There isn't one person on that team that knows how to fix what's > wrong .. For everyone's benefit then, please feel free to submit your patches along with your technical analysis, Michael -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFMndkQv9rrgRC1JIRAnQjAKCg2/LAVNAmezwLPixJADE2D618SQCeKc+R SqrDsGNiBWAn8b4JfhTsWAw= =xWRp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 15 19:28:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC45316A412; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:28:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723CD43D4C; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:28:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (phobos.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k9FJSWV0095084; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:28:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <45328BDE.9040907@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:28:30 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060910 SeaMonkey/1.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: danial_thom@yahoo.com References: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: Mark Linimon , Kip Macy , FreeBSD Stable , performance@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x (was: e: [fbsd] HEADS UP: FreeBSD 5.3, 5.4, 6.0 EoLs coming soon) X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:28:42 -0000 Danial Thom wrote: > > --- Mark Linimon wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 07:57:32AM -0700, >> Danial Thom wrote: >>> Stating facts is not trolling. >> true, but ... >> >>> The fact that you may not want to hear it is >> your own problem [...] >>> You can't keep promoting this junk they're >> putting out. You can't just >>> keep kicking the Matt Dillons out of the camp >> because they think that >>> your design is a piece of crap. At some point >> you have to come to terms >>> with the fact that your kernel design stinks >> [...] >> >> ... *is*. >> >> I think there are valid points to be made about >> 4.X vs 5.X vs 6.X (which >> is why, for the sake of being informative, I >> wrote an article about it). >> Performance was also discussed extensively at >> BSDCan, and a lot of work was >> done on improvements and ideas were discussed >> for the next steps to make >> (e.g.: actual work, not just talk). This work >> is continuing. >> >> But as long as you keep the above tone, I and >> everyone else who is actually >> doing the work to advance the project will just >> ignore you; because, frankly, >> there's too much work to do and in any case, >> life is just too short. (I >> intend to do just that from now on, so I will >> not be adding any more to this >> thread. You may have the "last word", if that >> kind of thing is important to >> you.) >> >> Finally, if you think Matt's design and/or >> ability to accept criticism is >> better than ours, then DragonFly is clearly a >> better choice for you. > > Dragonfly will be a better choice for everyone in > a year or so, but as of now there are no choices. > > The *tone* is caused by the entire user base > being lied to over and over, "performance is > addressed in the next release", yada, yada, yada. > Those of us in the know are tired of it. You're > wasting a lot of our time testing this crap over > and over. > > So stop lying. Stop allowing Kris Kennaway to BS > everyone on the questions list over and over and > calling anyone who speaks the truth a troll. Fess > up to your debacle publically because you're > affecting people's businesses with your lying, > trying to cover your asses and refusing to admit > that you are just rambling cluelessly about. > There isn't one person on that team that knows > how to fix what's wrong, and you're using > thousand of people trying to run businesses as > guinea pigs. > > Thats why some of us have a *tone* > > DT > Congrats, you are the second entry in my permanent kill file. Scott From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 03:25:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB29D16A416; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:25:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C8843D83; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:25:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id EC8832D25; Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:25:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:25:34 -0500 To: Michael Butler Message-ID: <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> References: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45327764.2080904@protected-networks.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45327764.2080904@protected-networks.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 04:13:28 +0000 Cc: performance@freebsd.org, danial_thom@yahoo.com, FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:25:38 -0000 On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 02:01:08PM -0400, Michael Butler wrote: > For everyone's benefit then, please feel free to submit your patches > along with your technical analysis. I think his best bet is a fork, instead. Then he can tell all the people that volunteer to work on _his_ project exactly what to do, and see how far he gets with that approach. As an extra-special bonus, since it's the BSD license, he can start with whatever version of FreeBSD he finds most meets his needs. Even better, with his own project, he can then redirect all his postings there and leave the rest of us in peace. Until then, I think I'll watch out for any flying monkeys. I consider their existance equally probable. mcl From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 03:40:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E0B616A5A5; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:40:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markir@paradise.net.nz) Received: from linda-3.paradise.net.nz (linda-3.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F070443D62; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:40:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from markir@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-3.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0J77003NMM6UBS@linda-3.paradise.net.nz>; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:40:13 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] (218-101-28-242.dsl.clear.net.nz [218.101.28.242]) by smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21C4B0D5D0; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:40:05 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:40:03 +1300 From: Mark Kirkwood In-reply-to: <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> To: Mark Linimon Message-id: <4532FF13.7040708@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20061003) References: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45327764.2080904@protected-networks.net> <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 04:13:33 +0000 Cc: danial_thom@yahoo.com, Michael Butler , performance@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:40:22 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 02:01:08PM -0400, Michael Butler wrote: >> For everyone's benefit then, please feel free to submit your patches >> along with your technical analysis. > > I think his best bet is a fork, instead. Then he can tell all the people > that volunteer to work on _his_ project exactly what to do, and see how > far he gets with that approach. > > He might have got further by volunteering to create and supply profiles for those specific workloads that were faster in 4.x than 6.x on UP machinery etc... i.e. help make 6.x better rather than discourage the development team (whose efforts are much appreciated by the rest of us that are happily using 6.x...) regards Mark From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 18:10:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650EC16A4F1 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:10:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6C043D88 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:09:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43971A4DA2; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8067251398; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:09:29 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: Chris , OM@xor.obsecurity.org Message-ID: <20061016180928.GA28108@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <3731.71.56.92.181.1160009571.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <200610120925.k9C9PmUK048690@lurza.secnetix.de> <20061012205342.GA62241@xor.obsecurity.org> <9500A2C9-07EB-4EEA-9477-9E6B4BFEB437@mac.com> <20061013201321.GA774@xor.obsecurity.org> <39EF1C01-351F-4952-9E9E-0D6A2DBE69C3@segment7.net> <3aaaa3a0610161105m72d0b5d8y17bd1e1835a4d5d4@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3aaaa3a0610161105m72d0b5d8y17bd1e1835a4d5d4@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway , Eric Hodel Subject: Re: Help with improving mysql performance on 6.2PRE X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:10:37 -0000 --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 07:05:28PM +0100, Chris wrote: > On 15/10/06, Eric Hodel wrote: > >On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 13, 2006 at 11:49:04AM -0700, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >>> On Oct 13, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Eric Hodel wrote: > >>>>>> Or did that change recently? > >>>>> > >>>>> It's only on certain systems, apparently. > >>>> > >>>> Is there a list of systems where it is safe to use the TSC with > >>>> SMP? Or some script we can run? > >>> > >>> The problem of the TSC clocks getting out of sync affects pretty much > >>> all AMD X2 dual-core CPUs, as well as the older 32-bit Althon MP > >>> CPUs; the Intel Xeon and Core Duo CPUs seem to do a lot better, > >>> although older Intel CPUs have also been reported to show problems > >>> with the TSC. > >> > >> Beyond that, just see if it works ;-) > > > >How "safe" is it to switch timecounters? I don't have a spare > >machine to test on... > > > > From my readings on switching the TSC over the past several months I > >think that if it doesn't work I'll see is ntpd adjusting my system > >clock more often (or falling out of sync). I don't know if this will > >corrupt mysql while its running though (which is my fear). > > > >FWIW I have a "Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 270". > > > >-- > >Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net > >This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant > > > >http://trackmap.robotcoop.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >=20 > I switched from the default timer to TSC on a dual xeon setup and my > loads instantly went up with mysql lagging, so in my case it was much > worse. This is a very surprising and anomalous result. Can you please provide more details? kris --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFM8rYWry0BWjoQKURAu+lAKDW6+NqJeB3wdhKJ99kTwE083hK0wCgp5Rh bHyBdRLjoN9OOdYcOSkkK0k= =RzVY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v-- From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 18:10:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69D216A407 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:10:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3112643D49 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:10:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so2358203pye for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:10:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=L/Om09wEWIqXiAecXfGq423h9mbPJVooTltJkr5Xb9lGvYTR2LXii22jVS5+81hoxg2M7SqbL9H89+o5OM47t5v6rZD+gRdcBGW621FSDPYKLaXwP3OLbIdR02mP1Gy1bsriCh2lGO9fRFVBGTITLh74Y6aAz8n+GWyjP6VaaZ4= Received: by 10.35.57.5 with SMTP id j5mr13757864pyk; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.29.20 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3aaaa3a0610161100y8c20101gcb2a9c27b7da5769@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:00:54 +0100 From: Chris To: "Mark Kirkwood" In-Reply-To: <4532FF13.7040708@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45327764.2080904@protected-networks.net> <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> <4532FF13.7040708@paradise.net.nz> Cc: Mark Linimon , danial_thom@yahoo.com, FreeBSD Stable , performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:10:50 -0000 On 16/10/06, Mark Kirkwood wrote: > Mark Linimon wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 02:01:08PM -0400, Michael Butler wrote: > >> For everyone's benefit then, please feel free to submit your patches > >> along with your technical analysis. > > > > I think his best bet is a fork, instead. Then he can tell all the people > > that volunteer to work on _his_ project exactly what to do, and see how > > far he gets with that approach. > > > > > > He might have got further by volunteering to create and supply profiles > for those specific workloads that were faster in 4.x than 6.x on UP > machinery etc... i.e. help make 6.x better rather than discourage the > development team (whose efforts are much appreciated by the rest of us > that are happily using 6.x...) > > regards > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ I recently ordered some servers from a datacentre on lease, specs were UP p4 2.8ghz gig of ddr2 ram and sata hd, intel lan card. None of the servers would boot in freebsd 6.x, they booted in freebsd 4.x but needed a pata controller, they only worked properly in freebsd 5.x. It seems their are 2 major problems with freebsd at the moment (1) is the hardware support is still way behind both linux and windows and its very frustrating in the amount of datacentres that dont support freebsd. and (2) the uniprocessor performance remains below par. The freebsd team it would help to realise not everyone can pick and choose their hardware and not everyone has the budget for state of the art hardware, certianly if you go around browsing datacentre websites for dedicated servers the dominant spec is x86 single processor, dual cpu is growing but still not dominent and I think 32bit UP wont be dead for at least half a decade. freebsd 4.x their is nothing to dispute, its leaner and smoother on pretty much every UP setup and I think it would do freebsd's reputation some good if a 4.12 was to come about. just my 2 pence worth. Chris From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 18:16:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33CC16A494 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:16:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524A143D6D for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:16:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so2359546pye for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:15:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=M+tM2sBxxw3EauxAZpx1iOHQFtAK1/T/uSckM9tPwZW0l3fdINOOYdHiidZ18JR6bB4lBFBpdhojcQ1Wuqt8vAz0DZ1/5HGxtVmvCdD5GQChJeYFSF2zhFLRlbpeZ/p4xYqXuRPN5/TdqJKLZrNwgfktYnzZVs664nQrdqmRvxk= Received: by 10.35.72.1 with SMTP id z1mr13305808pyk; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.29.20 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3aaaa3a0610161105m72d0b5d8y17bd1e1835a4d5d4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:05:28 +0100 From: Chris To: "Eric Hodel" In-Reply-To: <39EF1C01-351F-4952-9E9E-0D6A2DBE69C3@segment7.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3731.71.56.92.181.1160009571.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <200610120925.k9C9PmUK048690@lurza.secnetix.de> <20061012205342.GA62241@xor.obsecurity.org> <9500A2C9-07EB-4EEA-9477-9E6B4BFEB437@mac.com> <20061013201321.GA774@xor.obsecurity.org> <39EF1C01-351F-4952-9E9E-0D6A2DBE69C3@segment7.net> Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Help with improving mysql performance on 6.2PRE X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:16:16 -0000 On 15/10/06, Eric Hodel wrote: > On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2006 at 11:49:04AM -0700, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >> On Oct 13, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Eric Hodel wrote: > >>>>> Or did that change recently? > >>>> > >>>> It's only on certain systems, apparently. > >>> > >>> Is there a list of systems where it is safe to use the TSC with > >>> SMP? Or some script we can run? > >> > >> The problem of the TSC clocks getting out of sync affects pretty much > >> all AMD X2 dual-core CPUs, as well as the older 32-bit Althon MP > >> CPUs; the Intel Xeon and Core Duo CPUs seem to do a lot better, > >> although older Intel CPUs have also been reported to show problems > >> with the TSC. > > > > Beyond that, just see if it works ;-) > > How "safe" is it to switch timecounters? I don't have a spare > machine to test on... > > From my readings on switching the TSC over the past several months I > think that if it doesn't work I'll see is ntpd adjusting my system > clock more often (or falling out of sync). I don't know if this will > corrupt mysql while its running though (which is my fear). > > FWIW I have a "Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 270". > > -- > Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net > This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant > > http://trackmap.robotcoop.com > > > _______________________________________________ I switched from the default timer to TSC on a dual xeon setup and my loads instantly went up with mysql lagging, so in my case it was much worse. Chris From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 18:36:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A9916A4E0 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62FC43D64 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:36:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chrcoluk@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so2365350pye for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:36:04 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=M+tM2sBxxw3EauxAZpx1iOHQFtAK1/T/uSckM9tPwZW0l3fdINOOYdHiidZ18JR6bB4lBFBpdhojcQ1Wuqt8vAz0DZ1/5HGxtVmvCdD5GQChJeYFSF2zhFLRlbpeZ/p4xYqXuRPN5/TdqJKLZrNwgfktYnzZVs664nQrdqmRvxk= Received: by 10.35.72.1 with SMTP id z1mr13305808pyk; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.29.20 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3aaaa3a0610161105m72d0b5d8y17bd1e1835a4d5d4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:05:28 +0100 From: Chris To: "Eric Hodel" In-Reply-To: <39EF1C01-351F-4952-9E9E-0D6A2DBE69C3@segment7.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3731.71.56.92.181.1160009571.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <200610120925.k9C9PmUK048690@lurza.secnetix.de> <20061012205342.GA62241@xor.obsecurity.org> <9500A2C9-07EB-4EEA-9477-9E6B4BFEB437@mac.com> <20061013201321.GA774@xor.obsecurity.org> <39EF1C01-351F-4952-9E9E-0D6A2DBE69C3@segment7.net> Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Help with improving mysql performance on 6.2PRE X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:36:06 -0000 On 15/10/06, Eric Hodel wrote: > On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:13 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2006 at 11:49:04AM -0700, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >> On Oct 13, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Eric Hodel wrote: > >>>>> Or did that change recently? > >>>> > >>>> It's only on certain systems, apparently. > >>> > >>> Is there a list of systems where it is safe to use the TSC with > >>> SMP? Or some script we can run? > >> > >> The problem of the TSC clocks getting out of sync affects pretty much > >> all AMD X2 dual-core CPUs, as well as the older 32-bit Althon MP > >> CPUs; the Intel Xeon and Core Duo CPUs seem to do a lot better, > >> although older Intel CPUs have also been reported to show problems > >> with the TSC. > > > > Beyond that, just see if it works ;-) > > How "safe" is it to switch timecounters? I don't have a spare > machine to test on... > > From my readings on switching the TSC over the past several months I > think that if it doesn't work I'll see is ntpd adjusting my system > clock more often (or falling out of sync). I don't know if this will > corrupt mysql while its running though (which is my fear). > > FWIW I have a "Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 270". > > -- > Eric Hodel - drbrain@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net > This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant > > http://trackmap.robotcoop.com > > > _______________________________________________ I switched from the default timer to TSC on a dual xeon setup and my loads instantly went up with mysql lagging, so in my case it was much worse. Chris From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 22:59:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471B616A40F for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:59:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF76C43D55 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:59:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 80366 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Oct 2006 22:59:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Mrf70LypY0vPCz9i5YxPsX6uj516OuMNXzBWr2PQIWGFml3C0JazJqYD6hPkjXc87UnnPB3hCbXgMLO3thOQTeJ1Q06jbu0WzK/VwCl4u3XGmEkBFs/J2zERpqzp1W6R4tKxh9VJ0k5pTIleyFnVP7MqLtbjAa1wEMTxKpU+KQ0= ; Message-ID: <20061016225923.80364.qmail@web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:59:23 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: Mike Horwath In-Reply-To: <20061015150520.GD98831@Geeks.ORG> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: tec@mega.net.br, freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, Mike Horwath Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:59:25 -0000 I'm not quote sure what you're trying to say, becuase clearly your not using a SATA controller, so you can't say the drives work in freebsd 4.x. And I only used Areca because its what I had lying around. I didn't try to make any specific analysis, or say that SATA was faster than scsi, only that the new drives are very fast. You can't compare scsi and sata directly really, becuase they don't use the same drivers or the same cards. there's a lot more people running squid on freebsd then running usenet servers, so its not likely that your "analysis" means much to anyone other than yourself. DT --- Mike Horwath wrote: > On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 07:03:04AM -0700, > Danial Thom wrote: > > We come from Earth; we're just more informed. > The > > WD740ADFD's do NOT work on Freebsd 4.x. I'm > sure > > you are talking about the WD740GD. I DID say > the > > NEW ones. They are a lot faster than the GDs. > I > > used them with FreeBSD 4.x with an Areca SATA > > card and they performed similarly to 15K > Fujitsu > > SCSIs on a heavily loaded squid system. > > So you required a SATAII controller for an SATA > disk? > > squid? Sure, somewhat heavy access. > > How about UseNet? > > I have 16 WD740ADFD disks in a RAID5 config > (with a hot spare even!) > that is just cranking along. Economics said I > had to go this route, > not performance. > > Since I needed *more* spindles and needed > *more* space, I had to go > this route. It performs adequately. > > It replaced the 6x73GB disks at 15KRPM - > performance was *much* better > with the SCSI, but at 2.7TB per day, I needed > *more* retention to feed > back to my peers and my internal network. > > > Also when you are using a SATA drive that > *works* > > in 4.x its running in some reduced transfer > mode, > > so you can't expect to get optimal > performance or > > anything close. So "works" is almost a > euphemism > > for "doesn't barf", but they don't really > work > > well no matter how good the drive is. > > More spew. > > > For my needs, its cheaper to go with SCSI > than to > > buy the sata card as there's only about a > $250. > > difference in the SCSI hardware, and I don't > use > > up my slot. Hence, the silliness of operating > in > > the FreeBSD camp. > > Ah, cheaper, now we know the reason for the > difference. > > It sure isn't performance. > > > Note that the drives work with 6.x but squid > > performance doesn't measure up, so again, 4.x > > with SCSI is the best bang for the buck > choice. > > Change controllers and don't be a wank. > > I went down the path of ARECA controllers for > my news spool project > (30TB of disk) and the controllers were fast > for access, but randomly > dropped disks or volumes for no reason I could > find. I loved the > speed, hated the randomness. > > I changed down the AMCC path, I lose some > performance (not worth > posting numbers, it was under 5%), but no more > issues. > > FreeBSD 6, Opteron systems and 64bit. > > The reason for this part of the post? To show > it isn't an issue of > not wanting to embrace new > hardare/architectures, but that 32bit > operating systems and hardware isn't dead, for > any of the reasons > given so far in this thread. > > -- > Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau@Geeks.ORG > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 16 23:13:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4EE16A415 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:13:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.127]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2871143D58 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:13:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63987 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Oct 2006 23:13:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GhTGtQevQboDAuc8l77gKC22U9tiAmTpxLcN08+CcbENqx+j4r4JjWoqC+fA8zv8DQDhOIOBfWnSs/JdYGIPHOCUYNeHMQnxjopZXQST1m2YBuwaIoif84zH19g+cZc52huxOzueRPPDOF5LyJFh8WISldECZpDw7s+ZKNPlUZU= ; Message-ID: <20061016231313.63985.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:13:13 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:13:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: Mark Linimon , Michael Butler In-Reply-To: <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: FreeBSD Stable , performance@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:13:15 -0000 --- Mark Linimon wrote: > On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 02:01:08PM -0400, > Michael Butler wrote: > > For everyone's benefit then, please feel free > to submit your patches > > along with your technical analysis. > > I think his best bet is a fork, instead. Then > he can tell all the people > that volunteer to work on _his_ project exactly > what to do, and see how > far he gets with that approach. > > As an extra-special bonus, since it's the BSD > license, he can start with > whatever version of FreeBSD he finds most meets > his needs. > > Even better, with his own project, he can then > redirect all his postings > there and leave the rest of us in peace. > > Until then, I think I'll watch out for any > flying monkeys. I consider > their existance equally probable. > > mcl Why do I need to start a project? Matt Dillon is already doing it. One thing that Matt has proved is that IQ isn't cumulative. Because hes doing on his own what an entire team of FreeBSD "engineers" can't do. But hey, you're not getting paid, so I guess we shouldn't expect anything good. Bravo for trying guys. We appreciate your wasted efforts. I'm not nearly as concerned about the project at this point. Dfly will be usable before freebsd, and at least we know there's someone that knows what they're doing over there. What concerns me is the lying to all of the small businessman out there. People wasting their money on hardware that freebsd can't utilize. And you clowns telling them how great it is. Its just plain dishonest. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 17 01:23:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F1316A415 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trodat@gmail.com) Received: from hu-out-0506.google.com (hu-out-0506.google.com [72.14.214.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF0643D46 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:23:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trodat@gmail.com) Received: by hu-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 34so1310806hui for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:23:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Rddhxp2V9jlmT8erWatv2jgxqsgijXdkADHlTLvnLQXzUE6zlqwF15QzWJYmgI2VCC5FSo5BY926BL2IZ3JnHf0BkrLi+18D99NYZKKCJ13I3M4dEHRciHxlcrMyqVbhiNYtmKhUDaR4Vcc+z6BGQ86PErkrRsKaaEXogDO2J5E= Received: by 10.49.93.13 with SMTP id v13mr496483nfl; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.67.12 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6f4e26b70610161823ke596eco536a31100d73420e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:23:01 -0600 From: "RoBeRT B" To: danial_thom@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20061016231313.63985.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> <20061016231313.63985.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: performance@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:23:09 -0000 If you see/grep Danial Thom in FreeBSD related, consider this: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/88q1/13785.8.html http://amasci.com/weird/flamer.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_war My personal fav' is the first link... How do we know that 'DT' even exists? Hmmm. DT - Shhhhhhhh, go away for you do not exist. RB. On 10/16/06, Danial Thom wrote: > > > --- Mark Linimon wrote: > > > On Sun, Oct 15, 2006 at 02:01:08PM -0400, > > Michael Butler wrote: > > > For everyone's benefit then, please feel free > > to submit your patches > > > along with your technical analysis. > > > > I think his best bet is a fork, instead. Then > > he can tell all the people > > that volunteer to work on _his_ project exactly > > what to do, and see how > > far he gets with that approach. > > > > As an extra-special bonus, since it's the BSD > > license, he can start with > > whatever version of FreeBSD he finds most meets > > his needs. > > > > Even better, with his own project, he can then > > redirect all his postings > > there and leave the rest of us in peace. > > > > Until then, I think I'll watch out for any > > flying monkeys. I consider > > their existance equally probable. > > > > mcl > > Why do I need to start a project? Matt Dillon is > already doing it. > > One thing that Matt has proved is that IQ isn't > cumulative. Because hes doing on his own what an > entire team of FreeBSD "engineers" can't do. But > hey, you're not getting paid, so I guess we > shouldn't expect anything good. Bravo for trying > guys. We appreciate your wasted efforts. > > I'm not nearly as concerned about the project at > this point. Dfly will be usable before freebsd, > and at least we know there's someone that knows > what they're doing over there. What concerns me > is the lying to all of the small businessman out > there. People wasting their money on hardware > that freebsd can't utilize. And you clowns > telling them how great it is. Its just plain > dishonest. > > DT > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Why use Gmail? Cause HOTMAIL SUCKS! If you *STILL* are using HOTMAIL you only have to ask yourself "Why?" From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 17 02:35:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290D516A47C; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:35:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rnsanchez@wait4.org) Received: from spunkymail-a9.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-177.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A1443D5C; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:35:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rnsanchez@wait4.org) Received: from sauron.lan.box (unknown [200.203.38.244]) by spunkymail-a9.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D9A20813; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:35:07 -0300 From: Ricardo Nabinger Sanchez To: danial_thom@yahoo.com Message-Id: <20061016233507.d6569808.rnsanchez@wait4.org> In-Reply-To: <20061016231313.63985.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> <20061016231313.63985.qmail@web33312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Organization: SYS_WAIT4 X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.3.0beta2 (GTK+ 2.8.20; i386-portbld-freebsd6.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Mark Linimon , Michael Butler , FreeBSD Stable , performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:35:21 -0000 On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Danial Thom wrote: > Why do I need to start a project? Matt Dillon is > already doing it. > > One thing that Matt has proved is that IQ isn't > cumulative. Because hes doing on his own what an > entire team of FreeBSD "engineers" can't do. But > hey, you're not getting paid, so I guess we > shouldn't expect anything good. Bravo for trying > guys. We appreciate your wasted efforts. Sorry, but I don't get your point. Why aren't you using Dragonfly or Linux or any other OS that suits your needs already? > I'm not nearly as concerned about the project at > this point. Dfly will be usable before freebsd, > and at least we know there's someone that knows > what they're doing over there. What concerns me > is the lying to all of the small businessman out > there. People wasting their money on hardware > that freebsd can't utilize. And you clowns > telling them how great it is. Its just plain > dishonest. And another: have you read (and understood) the copyright message? Specifically this part (deCAPSed for your comfort): "This software is provided by the regents and contributors ``as is'' and any express or implied warranties, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose are disclaimed." I don't have the IQ to understand why do you keep using FreeBSD if it makes you unhappy, doesn't support the hardware you bought/have, perform poorly on most situations you have to deal with, and you think its developers don't have a clue of what they're doing. -- Ricardo Nabinger Sanchez Powered by FreeBSD "Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse." From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 17 08:48:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14AA816A40F; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:48:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C5E43D79; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:48:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5E967.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.233.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9H8j8kT052788; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:45:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from localhost (webmail.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k9H8mSjL011992; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:48:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:48:28 +0200 Message-ID: <20061017104828.tpeaw4gj4okook8s@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:48:28 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Chris References: <20061015174750.13249.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45327764.2080904@protected-networks.net> <20061016032534.GB6398@soaustin.net> <4532FF13.7040708@paradise.net.nz> <3aaaa3a0610161100y8c20101gcb2a9c27b7da5769@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3aaaa3a0610161100y8c20101gcb2a9c27b7da5769@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) / FreeBSD-7.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: performance@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon , danial_thom@yahoo.com, FreeBSD Stable , Mark Kirkwood Subject: Re: Performance 4.x vs. 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:48:34 -0000 Quoting Chris (from Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:00:54 +0100): > On 16/10/06, Mark Kirkwood wrote: >> He might have got further by volunteering to create and supply profiles >> for those specific workloads that were faster in 4.x than 6.x on UP >> machinery etc... i.e. help make 6.x better rather than discourage the >> development team (whose efforts are much appreciated by the rest of us >> that are happily using 6.x...) > I recently ordered some servers from a datacentre on lease, specs were > UP p4 2.8ghz gig of ddr2 ram and sata hd, intel lan card. None of the > servers would boot in freebsd 6.x, they booted in freebsd 4.x but > needed a pata controller, they only worked properly in freebsd 5.x. What's the Problem Report number of your bug report? Does it contain =20 the error message of the problem (if there's one), a detailed =20 description of the hardware, and anything else what may be =20 interesting to know about this situation? > It seems their are 2 major problems with freebsd at the moment (1) is > the hardware support is still way behind both linux and windows and > its very frustrating in the amount of datacentres that dont support > freebsd. and (2) the uniprocessor performance remains below par. What's the PR number of your report where you describe under which =20 specific load (and how to produce/simulate this load) it doesn't =20 perform as fast as other operating systems? Bye, Alexander. --=20 MSDOS is not dead, it just smells that way. =09=09-- Henry Spencer http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 18:59:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0684616A4E6 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:59:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963E943E3E for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:57:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9KIvf9J040498 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:57:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k9KIvej8091353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:57:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020104944.144d9068@sentex.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:57:46 -0400 To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.3, clamav-milter version 0.88.3 on clamscanner2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: LINUX vs FreeBSD mysql performance using a large RT database X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:59:54 -0000 One of our larger db apps is our RT system (http://bestpractical.com/). Our old RELENG_4 box was starting to get long in the tooth, so it was time to put in faster disks (3ware 7000 in RAID1 vs 9500SX in RAID10) and more memory to help with searches. Its not that CPU intensive, but it does get the odd burst of CPU work as mail comes in and is processed by a number of filters. Access to the information is generally a couple of people at a time, but there is on occasion 4 or 5 people doing something at the very same time, sometimes doing large content searches. With all the threads about poor FreeBSD performance, I wanted to test it out myself to see how 64bit LINUX would compare using the same hardware. The database from mysqldump is about 6G. For testing purposes, I used a box with 4G of RAM (full dmesg below). I decided to test against a default Fedora Core5 install, but with the latest kernel 2.6.18.1. Apart from removing some modules from the build, it was a stock kernel. For the mysql.cnf, I used the same config on both machines. To try and compensate for disk layout, I installed the OS each time on a separate segate IDE drive and left the entire 3ware 9500SX disk in RAID10 (writeback cache, 64k stripes) to act as the database drive. Some simple numbers via bonnie with default FS. For LINUX, it was EXT3 (journal) -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU amd64SMP 5000 110199 72.8 110363 26.0 34922 9.7 77879 69.9 123349 17.3 729.0 2.5 amd64UP 5000 111557 68.6 114372 20.9 25162 4.8 98951 88.1 124080 14.7 720.7 1.9 LINUXSMP 5000 91132 91.4 103707 43.9 61248 17.4 50721 92.5 139426 11.4 926.0 0.7 BSD LINUX time mysql rt3 < all.out (full import) 106m 123m first full content search 35.92 45.29 Second content search after first full content search 24.66 26.14 Subject search 0.48 0.35 4 different select scripts run at the same time on different tables 62 59 create index Subject_IDX on Tickets (Subject); 8.29 7.12 To try and minimize cache effects, I would reboot the box before tests. The first test was total time to integrate. They are both disk intensive with almost no CPU, but FreeBSD came out ahead a bit. The first full content search was done after rebooting the box. It would search through the entire database counting the instances of a string sending the results (100 rows) to the screen. Right after that, I would do a second content search on a different string. The 4 different selects is a set of queries that would typically run by our customer service reps. i.e. search all tickets for a name, bring up the tickets for a single user, tickets on a circuit etc. These would all be started at the same time and I measured the wall time it took. In this case, statistically identical times I would say as 2 second difference on 4 tests is meaningless... At least for my real world app its uninteresting. The index creation was a bit faster, but again differences not really that interesting Some basic info about the array's speed. [am64]# diskinfo -t /dev/da0s1 /dev/da0s1 512 # sectorsize 159973438464 # mediasize in bytes (149G) 312448122 # mediasize in sectors 19448 # Cylinders according to firmware. 255 # Heads according to firmware. 63 # Sectors according to firmware. Seek times: Full stroke: 250 iter in 1.439902 sec = 5.760 msec Half stroke: 250 iter in 1.455372 sec = 5.821 msec Quarter stroke: 500 iter in 6.351412 sec = 12.703 msec Short forward: 400 iter in 1.341134 sec = 3.353 msec Short backward: 400 iter in 2.936428 sec = 7.341 msec Seq outer: 2048 iter in 0.359675 sec = 0.176 msec Seq inner: 2048 iter in 0.377226 sec = 0.184 msec Transfer rates: outside: 102400 kbytes in 0.741994 sec = 138007 kbytes/sec middle: 102400 kbytes in 0.866048 sec = 118238 kbytes/sec inside: 102400 kbytes in 1.567069 sec = 65345 kbytes/sec [am64]# I used libmap.conf to use libthr.so.2. For building mysql50 out of the ports, I also used BUILD_OPTIMIZED=yes. [client] port = 3306 socket = /tmp/mysql.sock [mysqld] port = 3306 socket = /tmp/mysql.sock skip-locking key_buffer = 384M max_allowed_packet = 2M table_cache = 512 sort_buffer_size = 8M read_buffer_size = 128M read_rnd_buffer_size = 8M myisam_sort_buffer_size = 128M thread_cache_size = 8 query_cache_size = 32M thread_concurrency = 8 log-bin=mysql-bin server-id = 1 [mysqldump] quick max_allowed_packet = 16M [mysql] no-auto-rehash [isamchk] key_buffer = 256M sort_buffer_size = 256M read_buffer = 2M write_buffer = 2M [myisamchk] key_buffer = 256M sort_buffer_size = 256M read_buffer = 2M write_buffer = 2M [mysqlhotcopy] interactive-timeout One strange thing is that FreeBSD thinks the box really has 5G of RAM, which is does not. Its just 4G.... However I am pretty sure thats just a cosmetic bug. Copyright (c) 1992-2006 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 6.2-PRERELEASE #1: Thu Oct 19 02:57:52 EDT 2006 mdtancsa@obsidian.sentex.ca:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/obsidian Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ (2194.52-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x40fb2 Stepping = 2 Features=0x178bfbff Features2=0x2001 AMD Features=0xea500800 AMD Features2=0x1f,,CR8> Cores per package: 2 real memory = 5368709120 (5120 MB) avail memory = 4118446080 (3927 MB) ACPI APIC Table: FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 MADT: Forcing active-low polarity and level trigger for SCI ioapic0 irqs 0-15 on motherboard ioapic1 irqs 16-31 on motherboard ioapic2 irqs 32-47 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 acpi0: on motherboard acpi0: Power Button (fixed) acpi0: Sleep Button (fixed) Timecounter "ACPI-safe" frequency 3579545 Hz quality 1000 acpi_timer0: <32-bit timer at 3.579545MHz> port 0x508-0x50b on acpi0 cpu0: on acpi0 cpu1: on acpi0 pcib0: port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: on pcib0 pcib1: at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 pcib2: at device 13.0 on pci1 pci2: on pcib2 3ware device driver for 9000 series storage controllers, version: 3.60.02.012 twa0: <3ware 9000 series Storage Controller> port 0xac00-0xac3f mem 0xf4000000-0xf5ffffff,0xff2ff000-0xff2fffff irq 16 at device 3.0 on pci2 twa0: [FAST] twa0: INFO: (0x15: 0x1300): Controller details:: Model 9550SX-4LP, 4 ports, Firmware FE9X 3.01.01.028, BIOS BE9X 3.01.00.024 atapci0: port 0xc080-0xc087,0xc000-0xc003,0xbc00-0xbc07,0xb880-0xb883,0xb800-0xb80f mem 0xff3fe000-0xff3fffff irq 11 at device 14.0 on pci1 ata2: on atapci0 ata3: on atapci0 atapci1: port 0xcc00-0xcc07,0xc880-0xc883,0xc800-0xc807,0xc480-0xc483,0xc400-0xc40f irq 11 at device 14.1 on pci1 ata4: on atapci1 ata5: on atapci1 atapci2: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xffa0-0xffaf at device 2.1 on pci0 ata0: on atapci2 ata1: on atapci2 isab0: at device 2.2 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 ohci0: port 0xe000-0xe0ff mem 0xff6b4000-0xff6b4fff irq 10 at device 3.0 on pci0 ohci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: SMM does not respond, resetting usb0: on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: (0x1166) OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ohci1: port 0xe400-0xe4ff mem 0xff6b5000-0xff6b5fff irq 10 at device 3.1 on pci0 ohci1: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb1: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb1: SMM does not respond, resetting usb1: on ohci1 usb1: USB revision 1.0 uhub1: (0x1166) OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ehci0: port 0xe800-0xe8ff mem 0xff6b6000-0xff6b6fff irq 10 at device 3.2 on pci0 ehci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] usb2: EHCI version 1.0 usb2: companion controllers, 2 ports each: usb0 usb1 usb2: on ehci0 usb2: USB revision 2.0 uhub2: (0x1166) EHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub2: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered em0: port 0xdc00-0xdc3f mem 0xff680000-0xff69ffff,0xff660000-0xff67ffff irq 24 at device 4.0 on pci0 em0: Ethernet address: 00:e0:81:5e:bd:9a em0: [FAST] em1: port 0xd880-0xd8bf mem 0xff620000-0xff63ffff,0xff600000-0xff61ffff irq 25 at device 5.0 on pci0 em1: Ethernet address: 00:e0:81:5e:bd:9b em1: [FAST] pci0: at device 6.0 (no driver attached) acpi_button0: on acpi0 atkbdc0: port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0 atkbd0: flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio0: port may not be enabled sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A, console sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1: port may not be enabled sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 drq 0 on acpi0 sio1: type 16550A fdc0: port 0x3f0-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on acpi0 fdc0: [FAST] fd0: <1440-KB 3.5" drive> on fdc0 drive 0 orm0: at iomem 0xc0000-0xc7fff,0xc8000-0xc97ff on isa0 sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x100> vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec da0 at twa0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device da0: 100.000MB/s transfers da0: 152566MB (312455168 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 19449C) SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/da0s1a ---Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Sentex Communications, mike@sentex.net Providing Internet since 1994 www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada www.sentex.net/mike From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 19:31:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B4E16A47C for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:31:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wmoran@collaborativefusion.com) Received: from mx00.pub.collaborativefusion.com (mx00.pub.collaborativefusion.com [206.210.89.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8761C43EFF for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:26:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wmoran@collaborativefusion.com) Received: from collaborativefusion.com (mx01.pub.collaborativefusion.com [206.210.89.201]) (TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by wingspan with esmtp; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:25:34 -0400 id 00056415.453922AE.0000E16D Received: from Internal Mail-Server (206.210.89.202) by mx01 (envelope-from wmoran@collaborativefusion.com) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 20 Oct 2006 15:20:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:25:33 -0400 From: Bill Moran To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20061020152533.a6dddd50.wmoran@collaborativefusion.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020104944.144d9068@sentex.net> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020104944.144d9068@sentex.net> Organization: Collaborative Fusion X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.9 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: LINUX vs FreeBSD mysql performance using a large RT database X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:31:47 -0000 In response to Mike Tancsa : > > One strange thing is that FreeBSD thinks the box really has 5G of > RAM, which is does not. Its just 4G.... However I am pretty sure > thats just a cosmetic bug. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#PAE Cool information, kind of blows the "FreeBSD's performance sucks" argument out of the water. Thanks for taking the time to run the tests and post! -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 20:06:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1080416A407 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:06:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emaste@phaedrus.sandvine.ca) Received: from gw.sandvine.com (sandvine.com [199.243.201.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C9843DF1 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:06:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from emaste@phaedrus.sandvine.ca) Received: from mailserver.sandvine.com ([192.168.1.10]) by gw.sandvine.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:06:39 -0400 Received: from labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com ([192.168.3.11]) by mailserver.sandvine.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:06:38 -0400 Received: by labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com (Postfix, from userid 12627) id 9158211614; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:06:38 -0400 From: Ed Maste To: Mike Tancsa Message-ID: <20061020200638.GA18727@sandvine.com> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020104944.144d9068@sentex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020104944.144d9068@sentex.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2006 20:06:38.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[40922310:01C6F483] Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LINUX vs FreeBSD mysql performance using a large RT database X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:06:59 -0000 On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:57:46PM -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote: > With all the threads about poor FreeBSD performance, I wanted to test > it out myself to see how 64bit LINUX would compare using the same hardware. [ snip ] It seems your message ended up with some unfortunate line wrapping, which made it a little hard to see at a glance what the results were. Scott sent me them reformatted as: BSD LINUX time mysql rt3 all.out (full import) 106m 123m first full content search 35.92 45.29 Second content search after first full content search 24.66 26.14 Subject search 0.48 0.35 4 different select scripts run at the same time on different tables 62 59 create index Subject_IDX on Tickets (Sub 8.29 7.12 If this is what you measured, the results look fairly competitive. Thanks for performing this real-world test and posting this info. -Ed Maste From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 20:29:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D34416A47B for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:29:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B72E44133 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:21:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9KKLaJT050436; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:21:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k9KKLZWs091728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:21:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020161447.16083e08@sentex.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:21:40 -0400 To: Ed Maste From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <20061020200638.GA18727@sandvine.com> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020104944.144d9068@sentex.net> <20061020200638.GA18727@sandvine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.3, clamav-milter version 0.88.3 on clamscanner2 X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LINUX vs FreeBSD mysql performance using a large RT database X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 20:29:16 -0000 At 04:06 PM 10/20/2006, Ed Maste wrote: >On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:57:46PM -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote: > > > With all the threads about poor FreeBSD performance, I wanted to test > > it out myself to see how 64bit LINUX would compare using the same hardware. >[ snip ] > >It seems your message ended up with some unfortunate line wrapping, >which made it a little hard to see at a glance what the results were. Sorry about that, my 21 inch Radiation Master has a very wide res ;-) >Scott sent me them reformatted as: > > BSD LINUX >time mysql rt3 all.out (full import) 106m 123m >first full content search 35.92 45.29 >Second content search after first full content > search 24.66 26.14 >Subject search 0.48 0.35 >4 different select scripts run at the same time > on different tables 62 59 >create index Subject_IDX on Tickets (Sub 8.29 7.12 > >If this is what you measured, the results look fairly competitive. >Thanks for performing this real-world test and posting this info. As I was saying to gnn offlist, you can look at these numbers all sorts of ways e.g. you could look at these results and say "so the import takes a long time, big deal. you only do that once! Look at the index, its 15% faster!" or "the index creation is barely a second... a second, big whoop. Look at the time to import, thats a big difference!" or... You are just measuring the quality of the driver or the speed of the disks etc etc... or "try 40 queries at the same time and you will see a BIG difference".... well, when my requirements get to 40 queries at once, great, I will focus testing on those requirements! For me, this exercise was very much driven by my own need to understand if there really would be a big (I mean > 50% in *my* world tests) to make it worth while to use LINUX that is (for me anyways) more cumbersome and less stable to administer (read more $$$$ and headache). I have to be practical about the boxes I manage. Put another way, if the same gear under FreeBSD is 10% slower than LINUX, the one time cost for me to buy hardware that will be 10% faster is laughably trivial.... The on going cost (let alone GNU vs BSD for our OEM products we put out) is WAY more. The next set of comparisons I want to run is in our spam scanners. The boxes which operate in round robin make heavy use of mysql, DNS lookups, perl, net io etc etc. That one I am quite interested in and will post the results in a week or two. ---Mike From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 21:57:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D5116A4D1 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:57:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F106843D8B for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:56:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.13.7/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id k9KLu9uA088524 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:56:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 166 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A98A0061 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:56:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 01FEE1D; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:56:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:56:30 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20061020215630.GA3028@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.166]); Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:56:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.2/2060/Fri Oct 20 21:45:33 2006 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at shiva.jussieu.fr with ID 453945F9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:17:46 +0000 Subject: Re: LINUX vs FreeBSD mysql performance using a large RT database X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:57:21 -0000 >>If this is what you measured, the results look fairly competitive. >>Thanks for performing this real-world test and posting this info. > > >As I was saying to gnn offlist, you can look at these numbers all sorts of >ways In fact this type of result is not surprising at all, it has already been found by mysql specialists benchmarking Linux and FreeBSD here: http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2006/06/15/freebsd-tests/ Of course one needs to look the results *after* the sentence: " I'm not big expert in FreeBSD and did not saw http://wikitest.freebsd.org/MySQL before. This page recommends to use libthr instead of libthreads. The results with libthr looks better: " which show that, on a dual core athlon, Linux and FreeBSD are basically equivalent. The real FreeBSD problem is that people say that it does not scale well on more than 4 processors. But, obviously things are becoming better and better, and machines with many processors are still not very common. It has taken a lot of time until Solaris has been optimized to not be a mollasse, and similarly Linux has taken some time before scaling well. -- Michel TALON