From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 18 19:09:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7477E16A47B for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:09:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0996A43D46 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:09:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k5IJCgxm000484 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id k5IJCfii000483 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:12:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 12:12:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200606181912.k5IJCfii000483@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Web site updated... X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:09:29 -0000 Hi, re: > ... AMD bought the > Geode technology from Via technology a couple of years ago, ... My impression (might be wrong on some details) was that Cyrix developed the basic low-power+ hypervisor-assisted-x86 (the Geode). The Geode hypervisor (VSA; Virtual System Architecture, or somesuch) was used not to provide a means to run multuple virtual machines but to implement virtual devices that would normally require additional hardware (that is, the code in controllers on peripheral boards was "moved" into hypervisor drivers, enabling the hypervisor-enabled CPU to emulate the device programming interface and also directly drive various "transducers" normally controlled by external controllers. This was intended to provide minimal-sized "system-on-a-chip" systems. The video framebuffer and CPU cache were integrated and under control of the hypervisor (the CPU contained an integrated video controller). This worked, but the large x86 pin-out and required capacitors bounded how small the system could actually be made. Cyrix was sued by Creative Labs for, in effect, reverse engineering the Sound Blaster. Cyrix lost, which seems to have largely been the end of the effort to make a dirt-cheap "PC motherboard on a chip"; the chip was repositioned as an embedded device and settop-box controller. National purchased Cyrix and tried to push designs based around tight-coupling the Geode to National's peripheral chips (such as ethernet controllers). The non-Geode part of Cyrix ("stock" x86 CPUs) was sold to the Taiwanese company Via. Via seems to have mostly wanted the brand name and pieces of IP; Via's CPU technology does not seem derived directly from Cyrix. National sold the Geode to AMD a few years ago. The Geode/VSA is an interesting use of a hypervisor to make a system as small as possible. The original VSA was limited to 64K in size. There is now a VSA II, don't know if it has the same limitation. A big problem with the use of such a hypervisor to shrink systems as small as possible is the 2-layers of drivers that result (first the driver that talks to the emulated device, then the real driver in the hypervisor). Also the hypervisor driver's may not provide the "real-time" or direct device access functionality that embedded applications may require. I think many of the would-be users of the embedded Geode would have liked to only use a minimal number of virtualized devices, while having the ability/doc to write their own driver's for the raw hardware driven by the CPU... - bruce From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 03:55:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCCA16A481; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:55:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout3.yahoo.com (mrout3.yahoo.com [216.145.54.173]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB4D43D53; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:55:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout3.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id k5J3pQTx077812; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:51:24 +0900 Message-ID: From: gnn@freebsd.org To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/22.0.50 (i386-apple-darwin8.5.1) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:55:17 -0000 Hi, To those of you who already get too much mail, which means all of us, I apologize for this. With the new push for more embedded systems using FreeBSD a few of us thought it would be a good idea to create a new list that more clearly indicated "embedded" uses. Now, of course all the people who've read and posted on freebsd-small for years may think, "Why bother creating a new list?" The reason is as simple as it may be annoying, "Marketing." When people search for FreeBSD on Embedded platforms they are unlikely to type "small" into their search. It's very important for us to get our information out there and having an embedded mailing list called "embedded" is an important part of that. So, to all of you already on freebsd-small I apologize and ask anyone who is interested in the Embedded work to subscribe to freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org. I'll be moving the pointers on the embeddedfreebsd.org site to point to the archives of both small and embedded but will only point to subscriptions for embedded. Thanks, and again, apologies, George From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 11:03:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B0416A672 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E687643D45 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JB3AJu064326 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:10 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k5JB393c064322 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:09 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:09 GMT Message-Id: <200606191103.k5JB393c064322@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:03:11 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/01/04] misc/15876 small [picobsd] PicoBSD message of the day prob o [2001/06/18] misc/28255 small [picobsd] picobsd documentation still ref o [2002/09/13] kern/42728 small [picobsd] many problems in src/usr.sbin/p o [2003/05/14] misc/52255 small [picobsd] picobsd build script fails unde o [2003/05/14] misc/52256 small [picobsd] picobsd build script does not r 5 problems total. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 18:10:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9643B16A47B; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:10:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FCC543D55; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:10:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5JIAimd025530; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id k5JIAi0v025527; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: gnn@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060619115827.A25435@wonkity.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org, freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Creation of a new list for Embedded.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:10:47 -0000 On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, gnn@freebsd.org wrote: > To those of you who already get too much mail, which means all of us, > I apologize for this. With the new push for more embedded systems > using FreeBSD a few of us thought it would be a good idea to create a > new list that more clearly indicated "embedded" uses. Now, of course > all the people who've read and posted on freebsd-small for years may > think, "Why bother creating a new list?" The reason is as simple as > it may be annoying, "Marketing." When people search for FreeBSD on > Embedded platforms they are unlikely to type "small" into their > search. It's very important for us to get our information out there > and having an embedded mailing list called "embedded" is an important > part of that. So, to all of you already on freebsd-small I apologize > and ask anyone who is interested in the Embedded work to subscribe to > freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org. So will freebsd-small go away? Both lists share the description of "Dedicated and embedded systems based on FreeBSD". What list would be appropriate for discussion about using FreeBSD not as an embedded system, but as a host environment for embedded microcontrollers like PIC/AVR/ARM? Is there crossover between the two groups? -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 05:55:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CD116A47C for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:55:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vision2020-bounces@moscow.com) Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net (mail-gw.fsr.net [64.126.132.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E1F43D94 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:55:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vision2020-bounces@moscow.com) Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.13.1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id k5L5tNUR047565 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vision2020-bounces@moscow.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:55:22 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: vision2020@moscow.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com Errors-To: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com Subject: Your message to Vision2020 awaits moderator approval X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:55:24 -0000 Your mail to 'Vision2020' with the subject Delivery reports about your e-mail Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Post by non-member to a members-only list Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/confirm/vision2020/2cc51d0faa2e8e73a3e369b96fadde0c9089627e From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 18:29:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A9016A481 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:29:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mlist.ulanbator@free.fr) Received: from ml.free.fr (ml1.proxad.net [213.228.0.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB77143D76 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:29:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mlist.ulanbator@free.fr) Received: from ml1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ml.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512FAC81F5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:29:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ml1 by ml1 (LISTAR/0.42); Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:29:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:29:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Listar To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Message-ID: X-listar-antiloop: ml1 Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Expiry-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:29:45 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Listar command results: -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:29:50 -0000 Request received for list 'mlist.ulanbator' via request address. --- Gestionnaire de liste Listar/0.42 - fin de traitement/job execution complete.