From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 18 19:56:03 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A62416A406 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:56:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: from web51804.mail.yahoo.com (web51804.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4277213C49D for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:56:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: (qmail 21009 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Feb 2007 19:29:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2CGYL.IVM1nQhUVLCiLbTmBQZQ07Cn8CEOLVcoI4B2m4icFmFWX.id8eQPYUyYyQJ3XQ1oSGlV7YYiI.5OHuDV0gibonZZNnRcs9IKDiONuBMlaiDqUfdg-- Received: from [67.112.21.27] by web51804.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:29:21 PST X-RocketYMMF: blabgoo Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:29:21 -0800 (PST) From: Nicole To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <425347.15096.qm@web51804.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: sysinstall vs BSD Installer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: nicole@unixgirl.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:56:03 -0000 --- Jona Joachim wrote: > Hi! > There has been a lot of discussion recently about whether sysinstall > should be replaced or not. > The purpose of sysinstall is to initially install FreeBSD and it > serves > this purpose quite well. However sysinstall is also the first thing a > > new user gets to see of FreeBSD. People which are used to shiny Linux > > Live CDs with Framebuffer boot sequences and all the jewelry are shoked > when they are confronted with the ncurses interface and walk away > most > of the time. This is a pity because you really use the installer once > every couple of years and it says nothing about the OS. > Would it be worth considering to provide the BSD Installer [1] as an > alternate choice to sysinstall for a default FreeBSD installation? > I'm sure several people already thought of it and it might be > interesting to hear their conclusions. > > Regards, > Jona To me the whole issue boils down to flash vs substance. (stands on soapbox) If someone is building a server, they want something easy, simple, fast, and will work on any of the myriad of weak built-in video cards available... or even via a serial port. The current installer is fine. Some, however, while building a workstation for X-windows etc. might expect something pretty, to belay the experience to come while running the the full X experience. They may want some flashiness and the appearence of something gee wiz and cool. "Is this what I am giving up windows for?" But, you cannot please everyone. However, I believe that if people get past the "where's my gee wiz flashy installer" they will enjoy the ncurses elegant simplicity. FreeBSD, to me, has always stood for stability, not flashiness. Of course elegant simplicity is not what the internet is about these days is it? We now even have advertisements that flash and spin and now even play video at us! So why can't they make an installer do the same thing? Just like with the barrage of annoying adverts these days, just because something can be done, doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Nicole -- Music: http://www.myspace.com/theparts Music2: http://www.drumslayer.com Words: http://www.unixgirl.com Images: http://www.deviantimages.com Image Hosting: http://www.picturetrail.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 18 19:53:48 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EDF16A400 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:53:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blabgoo@yahoo.com) Received: from web51809.mail.yahoo.com (web51809.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.240]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A60413C442 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:53:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from blabgoo@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 76172 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Feb 2007 19:27:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Cmh0Hy9A+Tei5scEpBuyT76AbrBMQ5HlTw4jgg1Pdlxi5P1FgSTtB6uwdDQyQyCVYp3B+3h11HtSAqOVgVzg3GFhPMlA7IgcKVYXo1c6TJVck439ZcYIz8QTDOLsht2wdGRO0PaqIS/yXqv8GgE5vhl3SdFU/OWOH7pT2xN/KHE=; X-YMail-OSG: q5mZtyAVM1mFgVWhtDIDQxgGDoRFIh47QqkRfU6t9NbA8SA7wRVztPkEluM_8fr3SDkXg_4Gpux73.ThBNEVji65X5pplISVtXoiyc0PDfSFdpZZI96ajU7Tw7qmyXgoLf6_gEDsqJ9za0U- Received: from [67.112.21.27] by web51809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:27:06 PST Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: Nicole To: Jona Joachim , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <45D66B3F.6030702@my.domain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <377388.75032.qm@web51809.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:56:31 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: sysinstall vs BSD Installer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:53:48 -0000 --- Jona Joachim wrote: > Hi! > There has been a lot of discussion recently about whether sysinstall > should be replaced or not. > The purpose of sysinstall is to initially install FreeBSD and it > serves > this purpose quite well. However sysinstall is also the first thing a > > new user gets to see of FreeBSD. People which are used to shiny Linux > > Live CDs with Framebuffer boot sequences and all the jewelry are > shoked > when they are confronted with the ncurses interface and walk away > most > of the time. This is a pity because you really use the installer once > > every couple of years and it says nothing about the OS. > Would it be worth considering to provide the BSD Installer [1] as an > alternate choice to sysinstall for a default FreeBSD installation? > I'm sure several people already thought of it and it might be > interesting to hear their conclusions. > > Regards, > Jona To me the whole issue boils down to flash vs substance. (stands on soapbox) If someone is building a server, they want something easy, simple, fast, and will work on any of the myriad of weak built-in video cards available... or even via a serial port. The current installer is fine. Some, however, while building a workstation for X-windows etc. might expect something pretty, to belay the experience to come while running the the full X experience. They may want some flashiness and the appearence of something gee wiz and cool. "Is this what I am giving up windows for?" But, you cannot please everyone. However, I believe that if people get past the "where's my gee wiz flashy installer" they will enjoy the ncurses elegant simplicity. FreeBSD, to me, has always stood for stability, not flashiness. Of course elegant simplicity is not what the internet is about these days is it? We now even have advertisements that flash and spin and now even play video at us! So why can't they make an installer do the same thing? Just like with the barrage of annoying adverts these days, just because something can be done, doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Nicole From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 18 22:19:41 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEF616A481 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:19:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from walkingshadow@grummel.net) Received: from mail1.bytemine.net (mat.bytemine.net [193.41.144.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22DC13C49D for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:19:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from walkingshadow@grummel.net) Received: from 4be54-4-82-234-154-189.fbx.proxad.net ([82.234.154.189]:10160 helo=mailsvr.my.domain) by mail1.bytemine.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1HIuNe-0005Ma-VK; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:19:39 +0100 Received: from localhost (unknown [192.168.0.11]) by mailsvr.my.domain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649AA456E0; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:19:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:19:29 +0100 From: Jona Joachim To: Nicole Message-ID: <20070218231929.4ae907df@localhost> In-Reply-To: <377388.75032.qm@web51809.mail.yahoo.com> References: <45D66B3F.6030702@my.domain> <377388.75032.qm@web51809.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.7.2 (GTK+ 2.10.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) X-Face: &>dujC`JZV!}?Y^1"%N{x!f+rW}; PX\_Cg[!|MA~tn3ebIKM|~p=,,U~YJt,Exd`Spk.1Ln zg, Q]0=:!/LTs-eg.Fz, @giLyD'D=s, L\-AJyZ8tcV`kPifedMA@rhoEikoo~K%@iDLNq2?aHZjIt) GqBY7o#9+8j/uuXDVG3`XFEH_4$T%._*%;|vIaP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall vs BSD Installer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:19:41 -0000 On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:27:06 -0800 (PST) Nicole wrote: > --- Jona Joachim wrote: > > Hi! > > There has been a lot of discussion recently about whether > > sysinstall should be replaced or not. > > The purpose of sysinstall is to initially install FreeBSD and it > > serves > > this purpose quite well. However sysinstall is also the first thing > > a > > > > new user gets to see of FreeBSD. People which are used to shiny > > Linux > > > > Live CDs with Framebuffer boot sequences and all the jewelry are > > shoked > > when they are confronted with the ncurses interface and walk away > > most > > of the time. This is a pity because you really use the installer > > once > > > > every couple of years and it says nothing about the OS. > > Would it be worth considering to provide the BSD Installer [1] as > > an alternate choice to sysinstall for a default FreeBSD > > installation? I'm sure several people already thought of it and it > > might be interesting to hear their conclusions. > > > > Regards, > > Jona > > To me the whole issue boils down to flash vs substance. > (stands on soapbox) > > If someone is building a server, they want something easy, simple, > fast, and will work on any of the myriad of weak built-in video cards > available... or even via a serial port. The current installer is > fine. For those people sysinstall is perhaps already too shiny. They may want a CLI installer. > Some, however, while building a workstation for X-windows etc. might > expect something pretty, to belay the experience to come while running > the the full X experience. They may want some flashiness and the > appearence of something gee wiz and cool. "Is this what I am giving up > windows for?" > > But, you cannot please everyone. However, I believe that if people > get past the "where's my gee wiz flashy installer" they will enjoy the > ncurses elegant simplicity. FreeBSD, to me, has always stood for > stability, not flashiness. The BSD Installer comes with a backend library for which you can have several frontends. There is a GUI and ncurses frontend ready to be downloaded. People could choose what they prefer. As for the disk space needed it should be manageable because the FreesBIE project is already providing ISOs with this installer. > Of course elegant simplicity is not what the internet is about these > days is it? We now even have advertisements that flash and spin and > now even play video at us! So why can't they make an installer do the > same thing? It's not about the Internet, really. You don't have to install Flash. As for animated SVGs, I love them ;) Advertisements are annoying, also in the "real world". The installer shouldn't "flash and spin". It should be usable and comfortable. > Just like with the barrage of annoying adverts these days, just > because something can be done, doesn't mean its the right thing to > do. I didn't say that, I just asked for opinions. At least one document which is distributed with every official FreeBSD copy states that "sysinstall is semi-officially at its End-Of-Life" [1]. I don't think the BSD Installer would be a bad alternative, it looks clean, usable, not too flashy and has already been ported to FBSD. I wanted to know what the leaders of the project envisioned for the future. Jona [1] http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/fbsd-from-scratch/why.html -- Hi, I'm a .signature virus! Copy me to your .signature file and help me propagate, thanks! 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------------------------------------------------ Unsubscribe to safely remove yourself from this email list, please send email to info@pixelfish.com. Powered by Pixelfish http://www.pixelfish.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 21 19:01:06 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAAC16B4A7 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stapleton.41@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB63B13C4BF for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stapleton.41@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k27so76920nfc for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:00:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=SKZuUgHQx7gjcg+wxskbE5uFlgTuWbrFR0VUoUVQcqFpUdD1L5RJ39lIRVFC6nLttv2TkI9/JpdHzAjZOFqKPdc8LZqENPWNMxDCnFRRBvzAJkZMgB5sY6SjrroYsUnwEeR9Dg1okP9WkQx5ZRwbwG867mpPVLkdmy9S6TU5kyY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Jbd2U4FP6ca7urwTQyV92UsY4kfQTX5kGr9E+bbQB4BjKJxZnlhI8Lw005NCudWX4LYRw81vUn8J2cupS+OnfM6POc8GgvTJ8L0D9ffxTm/L96G+5LBiWLscw9A0Die2hNF59SYbP4ICp6zXxmkGc6gUmkQl6ORwqxTA19tXpe0= Received: by 10.82.172.15 with SMTP id u15mr14233987bue.1172082850496; Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.191.16 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:34:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <80f4f2b20702211034n49c406edob4ff2130bf34fb33@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:34:10 -0500 From: "Jim Stapleton" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: getting our voice heard by a major PC manufacturer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:01:06 -0000 I found something on slashdot about Dell taking user input and submissions... I think we should all offer our input on to them on support for our preferred OS... http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/62466 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 24 23:58:45 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D341D16A404 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:58:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spam_quarantine@xserve1.eeinternational.org) Received: from xserve1.eeinternational.org (50-36-13-69.cust.propagation.net [69.13.36.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C1613C491 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:58:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spam_quarantine@xserve1.eeinternational.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xserve1.eeinternational.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E677E370F72A for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:44:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from xserve1.eeinternational.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (50-36-13-69.cust.propagation.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01954-07 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:44:14 -0600 (CST) Received: by xserve1.eeinternational.org (Postfix, from userid 2624) id 320383701A79; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:23:29 -0600 (CST) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: no-reply@bussinesideas.com Message-Id: <20070224232329.320383701A79@xserve1.eeinternational.org> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:23:29 -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at eeinternational.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: http://leet.110mb.com The latest bussiness idea ! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:58:45 -0000 Hello ! We are sorry if we distrubed you . Your email is in our email bank . We found out that you are an active bussiness man ,so we were wondering of you are interested in a bussiness offer . If so , please check out site for all the info. http://leet.110mb.com We apologise again if this e-mail bottered you in anyway . Thank you !