From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 09:01:03 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9834B16A481; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD6113C45E; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A5EE52.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.238.82]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B542E060; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4BD5B4817; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l2U83IU9032999; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 Message-ID: <20070330100318.wbqww1rilcksskok@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Dag-Erling =?utf-8?b?U23DuHJncmF2?= References: <86648johpj.fsf@dwp.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86648johpj.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) / FreeBSD-7.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-14.564, required 8, BAYES_00 -15.00, DK_POLICY_SIGNSOME 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, MIME_8BIT_HEADER 0.30) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, amd64@freebsd.org, Igor Subject: Re: nx-bit and TPM X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:01:03 -0000 Quoting Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav (from Thu, 29 Mar 2007 =20 23:36:24 +0200): > Igor writes: >> I'm was looking through handbook and wikipedia and it appears FreeBSD >> doesn't support hardware (nor software) nx bit. >> There also doesn't seem to be any support for TPM (Trusted Platform Modul= e). > > I believe NX support was never implemented because Intel's version of > AMD64 didn't support it. As for TPM, I don't see the point. This should not stop us in using it on amd64 if available. I think one =20 of the problem was/is the lack of time/man-power. So if someone comes =20 up with a good (enough) implementation which works on our supported =20 hardware, I don't think it will be rejected. Regarding TPM: there are good an bad uses for it. As our policy is to =20 provide possibilities and not to force policies on our users, I don't =20 see a reason why we will not incorporate good code regarding this. I =20 also think that we don't have it, as nobody needed it or wasn't =20 allowed to contribute code. But all this is better suited for arch@ I think (or maybe amd64@ in =20 case of NX). Bye, Alexander. --=20 "If a camel flies, no one laughs if it doesn't get very far." =09=09-- Paul White http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 12:19:08 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC0716A400 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:19:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@plot.uz) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEA413C43E for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:19:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@plot.uz) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 71so802157ugh for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.22.2 with SMTP id z2mr2148965ugi.1175255484211; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 04:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plot.uz ( [83.221.170.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id b23sm3147028ugd.2007.03.30.04.51.21; 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Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 Message-ID: <20070330100318.wbqww1rilcksskok@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:03:18 +0200 To: Dag-Erling =?utf-8?b?U23DuHJncmF2?= References: <86648johpj.fsf@dwp.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86648johpj.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) / FreeBSD-7.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-14.564, required 8, BAYES_00 -15.00, DK_POLICY_SIGNSOME 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, MIME_8BIT_HEADER 0.30) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:45:35 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Errors-To: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Return-Path: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Envelope-From: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: arch@freebsd.org X-Spam-Processed: plot.uz, Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:51:02 +0500 From: Alexander Leidinger Cc: amd64@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org, Igor , freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nx-bit and TPM X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:19:08 -0000 Quoting Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav (from Thu, 29 Mar 2007 =20 23:36:24 +0200): > Igor writes: >> I'm was looking through handbook and wikipedia and it appears FreeBSD >> doesn't support hardware (nor software) nx bit. >> There also doesn't seem to be any support for TPM (Trusted Platform Modul= e). > > I believe NX support was never implemented because Intel's version of > AMD64 didn't support it. As for TPM, I don't see the point. This should not stop us in using it on amd64 if available. I think one =20 of the problem was/is the lack of time/man-power. So if someone comes =20 up with a good (enough) implementation which works on our supported =20 hardware, I don't think it will be rejected. Regarding TPM: there are good an bad uses for it. As our policy is to =20 provide possibilities and not to force policies on our users, I don't =20 see a reason why we will not incorporate good code regarding this. I =20 also think that we don't have it, as nobody needed it or wasn't =20 allowed to contribute code. But all this is better suited for arch@ I think (or maybe amd64@ in =20 case of NX). Bye, Alexander. --=20 "If a camel flies, no one laughs if it doesn't get very far." =09=09-- Paul White http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 _______________________________________________ freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 07:45:37 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A377B16A403; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 07:45:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua (gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua [88.81.251.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B1E013C44B; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 07:45:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from localhost (hq.cybervisiontech.com [127.0.0.1]) by gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAE6ED46C6; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:16:09 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cybervisiontech.com Received: from gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hq.cybervisiontech.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L1Xor8-dkqek; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:16:08 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [10.2.1.87] (rein.cybervisiontech.com.ua [10.2.1.87]) by gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F7B4ED469D; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:16:08 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <460E0AB8.8040608@icyb.net.ua> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:16:08 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070329) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Eischen References: <1175318584.00714931.1175306401@10.7.7.3> <1175318590.00714940.1175308202@10.7.7.3> In-Reply-To: <1175318590.00714940.1175308202@10.7.7.3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "David E. Cross" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 32/64bit KSE issues? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 07:45:37 -0000 on 31/03/2007 05:23 Daniel Eischen said the following: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2007, David E. Cross wrote: > >> I recently ran into a problem where the 32bit JVM won't run on a 64bit host. >> I, and at least one other person in -java thinks it has to do with 32 bit KSE >> on a 64bit kernel (I have a vague memory on this somewheres WAY back). Is >> this still the issue? Could someone point me in the general direction of the >> specifics of the problem (if they exist, if not, I may try to create a >> simpler test case then java)? >> >> I tried a few searches, but nothing matching what I remembered came up. > > No, you can't run 32-bit libpthread on 64-bit kernel. There > are no compatiblity hooks in the kernel to handle 32-bit kse > interfaces. It is really too messy to provide it. Daniel, maybe you can send a followup to the following ? http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=110655 Given that 32-bit libthr also doesn't work on 64-bit kernel, the only option is to map thread libs to libc_r via libmap32.conf. BTW, next time there is a poll about retiring libc_r please count me against for precisely this reason. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 18:48:20 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DBBF16A403; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:48:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302C913C468; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:48:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (zion.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2VIm9uK067650; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 13:48:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 14:40:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <1175318584.00714931.1175306401@10.7.7.3> <1175318590.00714940.1175308202@10.7.7.3> <460E0AB8.8040608@icyb.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <460E0AB8.8040608@icyb.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200703311440.44428.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.1]); Sat, 31 Mar 2007 13:48:09 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2981/Sat Mar 31 10:50:41 2007 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Daniel Eischen , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "David E. Cross" , Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: 32/64bit KSE issues? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:48:20 -0000 On Saturday 31 March 2007 03:16, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 31/03/2007 05:23 Daniel Eischen said the following: > > On Fri, 30 Mar 2007, David E. Cross wrote: > > > >> I recently ran into a problem where the 32bit JVM won't run on a 64bit host. > >> I, and at least one other person in -java thinks it has to do with 32 bit KSE > >> on a 64bit kernel (I have a vague memory on this somewheres WAY back). Is > >> this still the issue? Could someone point me in the general direction of the > >> specifics of the problem (if they exist, if not, I may try to create a > >> simpler test case then java)? > >> > >> I tried a few searches, but nothing matching what I remembered came up. > > > > No, you can't run 32-bit libpthread on 64-bit kernel. There > > are no compatiblity hooks in the kernel to handle 32-bit kse > > interfaces. It is really too messy to provide it. > > > Daniel, > > maybe you can send a followup to the following ? > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=110655 > > Given that 32-bit libthr also doesn't work on 64-bit kernel, the only > option is to map thread libs to libc_r via libmap32.conf. > BTW, next time there is a poll about retiring libc_r please count me > against for precisely this reason. I plan on making sure full 32-bit compat exists for both libthr and libpthread and backporting it to 6.x for work. Very few things are too hard to wrap with a 32-bit shim. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 22:25:00 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B3916A401; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:25:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.ntplx.net (mail.ntplx.net [204.213.176.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA62213C46C; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:24:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.ntplx.net (8.14.0/8.14.0/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id l2VM2CDw000741; Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:02:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.ntplx.net) X-Greylist: Message whitelisted by DRAC access database, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.ntplx.net [204.213.176.10]); Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:02:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: John Baldwin In-Reply-To: <200703311440.44428.jhb@freebsd.org> Message-ID: References: <1175318584.00714931.1175306401@10.7.7.3> <1175318590.00714940.1175308202@10.7.7.3> <460E0AB8.8040608@icyb.net.ua> <200703311440.44428.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "David E. Cross" , Andriy Gapon , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 32/64bit KSE issues? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Eischen List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:25:00 -0000 On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, John Baldwin wrote: > On Saturday 31 March 2007 03:16, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> on 31/03/2007 05:23 Daniel Eischen said the following: >>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2007, David E. Cross wrote: >>> >>>> I recently ran into a problem where the 32bit JVM won't run on a 64bit host. >>>> I, and at least one other person in -java thinks it has to do with 32 bit KSE >>>> on a 64bit kernel (I have a vague memory on this somewheres WAY back). Is >>>> this still the issue? Could someone point me in the general direction of the >>>> specifics of the problem (if they exist, if not, I may try to create a >>>> simpler test case then java)? >>>> >>>> I tried a few searches, but nothing matching what I remembered came up. >>> >>> No, you can't run 32-bit libpthread on 64-bit kernel. There >>> are no compatiblity hooks in the kernel to handle 32-bit kse >>> interfaces. It is really too messy to provide it. [ ... ] > I plan on making sure full 32-bit compat exists for both libthr and > libpthread and backporting it to 6.x for work. Very few things are > too hard to wrap with a 32-bit shim. Not according to peter@ ;-) But if you can do it, that'd be great. -- DE