From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 24 11:15:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886C216A421 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C33313C459 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (linimon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id lBOBFCpK041995 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:12 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from linimon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.1/Submit) id lBOBF0j0041959 for freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:00 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:00 GMT Message-Id: <200712241115.lBOBF0j0041959@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: linimon set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: PRs recommended for committer evaluation by the bugbusting team X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:12 -0000 This is an experimental weekly posting from the bugbusting team containing PRs that we think are ready for evaluation by any interested committer. The idea is to try to match up people who are interested in going through the PRs with committers that are interested in helping. It is generated from the file /home/linimon/public_html/recommended.prs on freefall. This is intended to be a low-volume posting to see if we can get more people interested in bugbusting without being overwhelmed by the other weekly postings. Please give feedback on this report to linimon@FreeBSD.org. Thanks. 113111 freebsd- amd64 analyzed non-criti low current-us [Makefile] [patch] Potentially wrong instructions will be produced for EM64T with default CFLAGS 25986 silby kern patched serious high current-us Socket would hang at LAST_ACK forever. 40516 freebsd- kern open non-criti medium current-us [ti] [patch] ti driver has no baudrate set 78728 freebsd- bin open non-criti low current-us [patch] ntpd -- noisy when IPv4 or IPv6 interfaces are undefined 80348 freebsd- bin patched non-criti medium current-us rs(1) handles command line arguments improperly (SIGSEGV) 84740 remko kern patched serious medium current-us [libc] regcomp("\254") fails 84911 freebsd- bin open non-criti low current-us [patch] ndisgen(8) can't cope with .sys-files that begins with a number 98015 freebsd- kern patched non-criti low current-us [bfe] [patch] bfe(4): double free in error handling path. 102211 sos kern open serious high current-us [ar] [patch] detach raid member and reboot will cause panic (ICH7) 102653 andre kern patched serious medium current-us [tcp] TCP stack sends infinite retries for connection in LAST_ACK state 109494 matteo bin open non-criti low current-us [PATCH] ypserv(8): Add option to bind to specific port From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 26 18:37:34 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD89A16A419; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:37:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (lefty.soaustin.net [66.135.55.46]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E9D13C467; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:37:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A5CEC8C0E7; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:04:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:04:15 -0600 To: Henrik Gulbrandsen Message-ID: <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> References: <200712212341.44308@aldan> <200712221313.lBMDDx5M036478@lava.sentex.ca> <200712260038.11546@aldan> <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <1198689316.1119.382.camel@Particle> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1198689316.1119.382.camel@Particle> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org, Mikhail Teterin , "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org Subject: PR backlog [was: Re: usb/umass, devfs: this sucks] X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:37:35 -0000 On Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 06:15:16PM +0100, Henrik Gulbrandsen wrote: > Fixing and merging are good, but it seems to me (as an occasional patch > contributor without commit privileges) that the bottleneck for USB is > still in the handling of incoming patches [...] if a one-line fix > such as that in usb/78984 has not been applied after more than a year, > how long will it take for patches that involve multiple subsystems? I'll put on my bugmeister hat for a moment. First, I share your frustration. Second, unfortunately, it's not just USB. We suffer from this problem in several other areas, notably, patches for the userland utilities ("bin"). There are two interrelated problems that create a chicken-and-egg situation: - the PR tool is insufficient for our needs; - there's not a "culture" of going and fixing bugs outside of the code one usually works on. As for 1), once the releases are out, I intend to start working on defining what "our needs" are. As I've stated before in other places, until we understand those, and get community buy-in to define an actual "process" rather than just a particular PR system, it's unwise just to change the PR system. (IMHO, there's no reason to further automate a process that doesn't work correctly.) I hope to have something concrete to present at BSDCan in May. As for 2), I've scratched my head for what to do about that for a while, and not been able to make much progress. Here's what we've tried: - The creation of a weekly posting "bugs the bugmeister team thinks are ready for commit". This doesn't seem to have attracted the desired attention. Perhaps this is a problem of "push" not being the right solution here; perhaps it just hasn't been publicized enough. - The creation of a hack for classifying PRs, the "[tag]" convention. This is simply working around the weakness of the tool. However, it is sufficient to be able to generate weekly email sorting the PRs by tag, and another email showing only PRs with patches, also sorted by tag. If you are a committer, it's also possible to run queries via: ~gnats/tools/showwithtag to get a summary. - Trying to get more traffic on the freebsd-bugbusters@ mailing list. - Trying to create some interest in #freebsd-bugbusters on EFNet on IRC. This has not attracted enough committers to be viable yet. - Holding some "bugathons" (idea stolen from NetBSD) where we try to get committers to come onto the IRC channel at particular weekends to try to interactively work through PRs. This had some success, but we have not done one in a while. The odd thing is that for ports, the existing PR system -- plus, most importantly, the hacks we've added on top of it -- works reasonably well. - Each port has an explicit "maintainer" field (even though many of the entries are null). Most of the src codebase does not, therefore no one in particular "owns" it. - We've taken advantage of that to layer a PR auto-assigner on top, that also sets things to 'feedback'. - portsmon is also able to track PRs by the port they affect, and semi- weekly reminder emails are sent out. But the first of these items is really particular to ports. Also, more ports PRs than src PRs are upgrades/bugfixes, rather than true bug reports that need substantial investigation (in fact, the ratio is probably exactly reversed). This means we can clear a proportionally larger number of ports PRs. All of this has helped get the port PR count down over the last several years, to the point where it no longer seems as overwhelming as the backlog in the other areas. The size of the backlog creates a substantial disincentive to try to fix a handful -- thus perpeturating the cycle. What we all need to understand is that the PR count will never be at zero; if we can instead settle for a steady-state, where the most concrete PRs can be worked on as they arrive, then I'll feel we've have made great progress. Unfortunately I don't have any brilliant insights as to how to make the work more interesting; most of my ideas have the focus of simply making it less frustrating. I'll throw the floor open for brainstorming at this point. mcl From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 26 18:43:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7224616A419; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:43:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A38C13C46B; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:43:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBQIbsJE033930; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:37:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:42:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> To: linimon@lonesome.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> References: <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <1198689316.1119.382.camel@Particle> <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: stable@freebsd.org, henrik@gulbra.net, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:43:01 -0000 Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches can languish a long time in the PR system. The PR system is also the wrong tool for the job. While Mark touches on the cultural issues in play, they are exacerbated by the misapplication of a problem system to be a patch submission and tracking system. Maybe we need to adopt a practice from the Linux community. At least for arm kernel patches, there is a two step process: submit it to a mailing list for review and refinement, with the second step being submitting it into a queue. I'm not sure the details we need to be successful in the FreeBSD project. Many of the USB patches in the PR system I left alone because I didn't have the time and/or knowledge to evaluate them for inclusion, or I saw something obviously wrong in the patch. When I was trying to just get through the obviously trivial patches. Warner From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 26 21:10:21 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606DB16A4D6 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from r.neese@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367A613C465 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from r.neese@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so4549197waf.3 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:10:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; bh=jTdumm6m1wJKAk5cvw2DWv8SCyxF9QsuKiHd7yVO0M8=; b=LkSvrY4L9aiZ2sqjprM3sAGas/80/+atZX/2qj4aY2AZIBja9SwQGfUxdSI2F0ThD9K/5doTEJWQGZQtrZJPe5qju98J5OS/fooUC88ZFSuBVo6Gd3Dr3A5a3cAoPNFYedXZeNvyqChLIZ/rBpOKhaZ36X/1lrQPFS4GrFJoTtA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; b=GAm9cmF6s4MXcEwz88jO+hjI3HqukwTSVL+yItpKHvV+l9uZN98TDvSUOmS9EpiGunegyWNWRDCZ83Q4EkMY7Mw2wMTovdWr6d6Rvvw0gZmtA/dZoYOvA/sRakCHSxZIypjv5fEdzU2G8nwJmbJdCMHlr+4MG81pwYEW9x7+rkQ= Received: by 10.142.102.5 with SMTP id z5mr2139582wfb.15.1198701772699; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.deamonswitch.org ( [69.234.208.201]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h18sm28007727wxd.18.2007.12.26.12.42.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Neese To: freebsd-usb@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:43:06 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200712261243.08351.r.neese@gmail.com> Cc: linimon@lonesome.com, stable@freebsd.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, "M. Warner Losh" , freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: r.neese@gmail.com List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:10:21 -0000 I agree with this and there is also the 2nd issue of commiters not responding to those working on updating ports. Point and Fax I have emaile Sobomax about fixing and updating the asterisk ports. and have sent patches but never got a reply in 9 months. If your going to be a maintainer you need to respond to those working on projects already in ports. On December 26, 2007 10:42:24 am M. Warner Losh wrote: > Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply > to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. > > As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it > comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and > submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of > the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches > can languish a long time in the PR system. > > The PR system is also the wrong tool for the job. While Mark touches > on the cultural issues in play, they are exacerbated by the > misapplication of a problem system to be a patch submission and > tracking system. Maybe we need to adopt a practice from the Linux > community. At least for arm kernel patches, there is a two step > process: submit it to a mailing list for review and refinement, with > the second step being submitting it into a queue. I'm not sure the > details we need to be successful in the FreeBSD project. > > Many of the USB patches in the PR system I left alone because I didn't > have the time and/or knowledge to evaluate them for inclusion, or I > saw something obviously wrong in the patch. When I was trying to just > get through the obviously trivial patches. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-usb@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-usb > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-usb-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Welcome to the World. An the World gets smaller. From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 00:58:59 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B57B16A41B; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:58:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (lefty.soaustin.net [66.135.55.46]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28F313C448; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:58:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 5DA858C126; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:58:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:58:58 -0600 To: Richard Neese Message-ID: <20071227005858.GA7902@soaustin.net> References: <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> <200712261243.08351.r.neese@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200712261243.08351.r.neese@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: stable@freebsd.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, linimon@lonesome.com, "M. Warner Losh" Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:58:59 -0000 On Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 12:43:06PM -0800, Richard Neese wrote: > Point and Fax I have emaile Sobomax about fixing and updating the asterisk > ports. and have sent patches but never got a reply in 9 months. For situations like this you need to email portmgr@. We already have defined parameters for resetting inactive maintainers. mcl From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 09:01:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EDEB16A420; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:01:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from remko@elvandar.org) Received: from galain.elvandar.org (galain.elvandar.org [217.148.169.56]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0666A13C457; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from remko@elvandar.org) Received: from localhost.we-dare.net ([127.0.0.1] helo=galain.elvandar.org) by galain.elvandar.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1J7oKa-000O13-06; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:43:08 +0100 Received: from 194.74.82.3 (SquirrelMail authenticated user remko) by galain.elvandar.org with HTTP; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:43:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <18754.194.74.82.3.1198744988.squirrel@galain.elvandar.org> In-Reply-To: <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <1198689316.1119.382.camel@Particle> <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:43:08 +0100 (CET) From: "Remko Lodder" To: "M. Warner Losh" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, linimon@lonesome.com, henrik@gulbra.net Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: remko@elvandar.org List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:01:04 -0000 Hello Warner et all, On Wed, December 26, 2007 7:42 pm, M. Warner Losh wrote: > Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply > to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. > > As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it > comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and > submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of > the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches > can languish a long time in the PR system. Indeed, I am one of the persons trying to find these relatively easy things which I can do along side my other projects and things, but I dont see them all (eventhough I try to keep track of them as much as possible); but what will happen is that I learn more and more about the system and at some point in time I will "stop" working on these easy PR's and seeking more difficult ones to fix, at that point someone else has to step up to fill in the gap that gets created; this might be a problematic part :-) Though for everyone having simple fixes, please send them to me so that I can evaluate them and (together with Warner in this case (As my mentor)) I will try to get them in as correctly and quickly as possible :-) (keeping up with the high standards of FreeBSD ofcourse). > > The PR system is also the wrong tool for the job. While Mark touches > on the cultural issues in play, they are exacerbated by the > misapplication of a problem system to be a patch submission and > tracking system. Maybe we need to adopt a practice from the Linux > community. At least for arm kernel patches, there is a two step > process: submit it to a mailing list for review and refinement, with > the second step being submitting it into a queue. I'm not sure the > details we need to be successful in the FreeBSD project. > > Many of the USB patches in the PR system I left alone because I didn't > have the time and/or knowledge to evaluate them for inclusion, or I > saw something obviously wrong in the patch. When I was trying to just > get through the obviously trivial patches. > > Warner Some things that I think need to be done by the bugbuster/bugmeister team and additional people is a constant effort to keep track of the incoming tickets; Mark does a great job at that, and I try to helpout as much as possible there, but we are all busy every now and then and then a backlog on processing the incoming tickets gets created and we loose the "battle" :-) This is where you (the reader) can get in and try to help us with that, so that we can properly assign the tickets, and try to keep track of them so that they can get resolved as soon as possible. Though, some complains are that we are not fast enough etc, I think we need to make sure that everyone keeps understanding that we are a Voluntary project, and that we have resources at unknown times and dates, a committer can be active the one day, and remain inactive the rest of the week; that's a side effect on the project being based on volunteers; we did a good job so far with that, but every now and then something slips in between. What we should do at that point is not ranting around as I see happen sometimes, but instead try to get the bugbusters / bugmeister team involved so that we can see what other options are available, sometimes we can succeed in and sometimes we cannot; but dont keep the problem to yourself and the "assigned" person because that might not work :-) Just my E 0,02 :-) -- /"\ Best regards, | remko@FreeBSD.org \ / Remko Lodder | remko@EFnet X http://www.evilcoder.org/ | / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 15:31:47 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77F416A417 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:31:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from aldan.algebra.com (aldan.algebra.com [216.254.65.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8EE13C442 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:31:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from aldan.algebra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aldan.algebra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBRF0p4t078039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:00:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by aldan.algebra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lBRF0pAo078038; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:00:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) From: Mikhail Teterin To: "M. Warner Losh" Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:00:50 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7whJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" Cc: stable@freebsd.org, henrik@gulbra.net, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:31:48 -0000 On =D3=C5=D2=C5=C4=C1 26 =C7=D2=D5=C4=C5=CE=D8 2007, M. Warner Losh wrote: =3D As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it =3D comes to contributions. =9AThe current system of patch review and =3D submission is very hap-hazard. =9AIf you happen to get the attention of =3D the right person at the right time, then it goes in. =9AIf not, patches =3D can languish a long time in the PR system. This is /generally/ true, and has been for years. However, the USB-part of= =20 =46reeBSD is in a /particularly/ bad shape, so something USB-specific may b= e in=20 order. There is talk about a "whole new" USB reimplementation, and somebody is=20 working in the Perforce nirvana-land on it. Maybe, that work needs a closer= =20 look by other experts so as to bring it to the FreeBSD masses faster... -mi From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 15:55:10 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C877416A419; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:55:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6C213C474; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:55:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBRFmLMU053735; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:52:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20071227.085247.1723236220.imp@bsdimp.com> To: mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200712271000.50995@aldan> References: <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> <200712271000.50995@aldan> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Cc: stable@freebsd.org, henrik@gulbra.net, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:55:10 -0000 SW4gbWVzc2FnZTogPDIwMDcxMjI3MTAwMC41MDk5NUBhbGRhbj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIE1pa2hh aWwgVGV0ZXJpbiA8bWkra2RlQGFsZGFuLmFsZ2VicmEuY29tPiB3cml0ZXM6DQo6IE9uINGB0LXR gNC10LTQsCAyNiDQs9GA0YPQtNC10L3RjCAyMDA3LCBNLiBXYXJuZXIgTG9zaCB3cm90ZToNCjog PSBBcyBhIHByb2plY3Qgd2UncmUgbm90IGxldmVyYWdpbmcgdGhlIGNvbW11bml0eSBzdWZmaWNp ZW50bHkgd2hlbiBpdA0KOiA9IGNvbWVzIHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbnMuIO+/vVRoZSBjdXJyZW50 IHN5c3RlbSBvZiBwYXRjaCByZXZpZXcgYW5kDQo6ID0gc3VibWlzc2lvbiBpcyB2ZXJ5IGhhcC1o YXphcmQuIO+/vUlmIHlvdSBoYXBwZW4gdG8gZ2V0IHRoZSBhdHRlbnRpb24gb2YNCjogPSB0aGUg cmlnaHQgcGVyc29uIGF0IHRoZSByaWdodCB0aW1lLCB0aGVuIGl0IGdvZXMgaW4uIO+/vUlmIG5v dCwgcGF0Y2hlcw0KOiA9IGNhbiBsYW5ndWlzaCBhIGxvbmcgdGltZSBpbiB0aGUgUFIgc3lzdGVt Lg0KOiANCjogVGhpcyBpcyAvZ2VuZXJhbGx5LyB0cnVlLCBhbmQgaGFzIGJlZW4gZm9yIHllYXJz LiBIb3dldmVyLCB0aGUgVVNCLXBhcnQgb2YgDQo6IEZyZWVCU0QgaXMgaW4gYSAvcGFydGljdWxh cmx5LyBiYWQgc2hhcGUsIHNvIHNvbWV0aGluZyBVU0Itc3BlY2lmaWMgbWF5IGJlIGluIA0KOiBv cmRlci4NCg0KVXN1YWxseSB0aGF0J3MgY2FsbGVkIGEgbWFpbnRhaW5lciwgYnV0IHdlIGhhdmVu J3QgaGFkIGEgcmVhbCBvbmUgaW4gYQ0KbG9uZyB0aW1lLiAgT3IgZXZlbiBhIGZha2Ugb25lLiAg VGhhdCdzIHdoYXQgaXQgd291bGQgdGFrZSB0byBzb2x2ZQ0KdGhlIHByb2JsZW0uDQoNCjogVGhl cmUgaXMgdGFsayBhYm91dCBhICJ3aG9sZSBuZXciIFVTQiByZWltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLCBhbmQg c29tZWJvZHkgaXMgDQo6IHdvcmtpbmcgaW4gdGhlIFBlcmZvcmNlIG5pcnZhbmEtbGFuZCBvbiBp dC4gTWF5YmUsIHRoYXQgd29yayBuZWVkcyBhIGNsb3NlciANCjogbG9vayBieSBvdGhlciBleHBl cnRzIHNvIGFzIHRvIGJyaW5nIGl0IHRvIHRoZSBGcmVlQlNEIG1hc3NlcyBmYXN0ZXIuLi4NCg0K Tm93IHlvdSBhcmUgYmVpbmcgaW5zdWx0aW5nIGhlcmUuICBUaGVyZSBhcmUgcGVvcGxlIGxvb2tp bmcgYXQgSGFucycNCm5ldyBzdGFjaywgYW5kIGhhdmUgaWRlbnRpZmllZCBhIGZldyBpc3N1ZXMg d2l0aCBpdC4gIEhhbnMnIGlzIHdvcmtpbmcNCm9uIHRoZSBpc3N1ZXMgaWRlbnRpZmllZCwgYW5k IGV2ZW4gcHJvdmlkZXMgc25hcHNob3RzIGZyb20gdGltZSB0bw0KdGltZSBmb3IgcGVvcGxlIHRv IHRyeS4NCg0KV2FybmVyDQo= From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 17:34:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F343B16A41B; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:33:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B899713C465; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:33:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBRHSv9S054884; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:28:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:33:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20071227.103327.-749251578.imp@bsdimp.com> To: mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200712271216.22436.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com> References: <200712271000.50995@aldan> <20071227.085247.1723236220.imp@bsdimp.com> <200712271216.22436.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: stable@FreeBSD.org, henrik@gulbra.net, freebsd-usb@FreeBSD.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog) X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:34:00 -0000 In message: <200712271216.22436.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com> Mikhail Teterin writes: : =DE=C5=D4=D7=C5=D2 27 =C7=D2=D5=C4=C5=CE=D8 2007 10:52 =C4=CF, M. War= ner Losh =F7=C9 =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC=C9: : > Usually that's called a maintainer, but we haven't had a real one i= n a : > long time. Or even a fake one. : = : Well, you responded to me earlier suggesting, I take it upon myself t= o merge = : USB-advancements from 7.x to 6.x. That implied, somebody did somethin= g for = : 7.x, did not it? Can that body (whoever they are) not put on the vaca= nt = : USB-maintainer hat and push the fixes/improvements into 6.x (preferab= ly -- = : before the 6.3 is released unto the world)? If not that same person, = then, = : maybe, the people, whom you mention below as "looking at Hans' new st= ack", = : can do the merging? I did the bulk of the work for the 7.0 stuff, at least getting things into the tree. Since I did the work, my last job got totally insane and then I switched jobs. I don't have the time needed to do this. : But if somebody is, indeed, working on a new USB stack, that's : terrific news. It also implies, we might get a USB-maintainer some : time soon. I just want it soon/er/, because it has been far too long : already... We can all agree that this is long overdue. But we need to make sure of a few critical details so we don't create another mess for ourselves down the line. Warner From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 17:43:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A88616A41B for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:43:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9D313C4D3 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:43:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com) Received: (qmail 4524 invoked from network); 27 Dec 2007 17:16:27 -0000 Received: from aldan.algebra.com (HELO aldan-mlp) ([216.254.65.224]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 Dec 2007 17:16:26 -0000 From: Mikhail Teterin To: "M. Warner Losh" Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:16:20 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.1 References: <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <200712271000.50995@aldan> <20071227.085247.1723236220.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20071227.085247.1723236220.imp@bsdimp.com> Organization: Virtual Estates, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200712271216.22436.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com> Cc: stable@freebsd.org, henrik@gulbra.net, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Subject: USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog) X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:43:08 -0000 =D1=87=D0=B5=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=B5=D1=80 27 =D0=B3=D1=80=D1=83=D0=B4=D0=B5=D0= =BD=D1=8C 2007 10:52 =D0=B4=D0=BE, M. Warner Losh =D0=92=D0=B8 =D0=BD=D0=B0= =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB=D0=B8: > Usually that's called a maintainer, but we haven't had a real one in a > long time. Or even a fake one. Well, you responded to me earlier suggesting, I take it upon myself to merg= e=20 USB-advancements from 7.x to 6.x. That implied, somebody did something for= =20 7.x, did not it? Can that body (whoever they are) not put on the vacant=20 USB-maintainer hat and push the fixes/improvements into 6.x (preferably --= =20 before the 6.3 is released unto the world)? If not that same person, then,= =20 maybe, the people, whom you mention below as "looking at Hans' new stack",= =20 can do the merging? > : There is talk about a "whole new" USB reimplementation, and somebody is > : working in the Perforce nirvana-land on it. Maybe, that work needs a > : closer look by other experts so as to bring it to the FreeBSD masses > : faster... > Now you are being insulting here. =C2=A0There are people looking at Hans' > new stack, and have identified a few issues with it. =C2=A0Hans' is worki= ng > on the issues identified, and even provides snapshots from time to > time for people to try. I sure hope, you were joking about the "insulting" part. I don't see anythi= ng=20 in my words, that's in any way disparaging or insulting. What troubles me,= =20 however, is that this new work is being done in that ivory tower called=20 "perforce". Nothing against that particular revision-control system, but th= e =20 =46reeBSD work "in perforce" in the past tended to take /years/ to be merge= d=20 into the project's official repository -- CVS. Probably, because the actual= =20 development is far more thrilling, than the mundane merging from on=20 repository to another... But if somebody is, indeed, working on a new USB stack, that's terrific new= s.=20 It also implies, we might get a USB-maintainer some time soon. I just want = it=20 soon/er/, because it has been far too long already... I am with FreeBSD since early ninetees (and don't need refreshers on how we= =20 are a volunteer project). But I can't remember another case of a subsystem= =20 being so broken for so long -- through so many releases. -mi From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 27 17:54:47 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE3616A419; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mteterin@mlp.com) Received: from outbound-mail.mlp.com (outbound-mail.mlp.com [204.212.175.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4148B13C442; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mteterin@mlp.com) Received: from misha (Not Verified[10.5.105.98]) by outbound-mail.mlp.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 5, 586) id ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:39:24 -0500 From: Mikhail Teterin To: "M. Warner Losh" Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:39:21 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7.1 References: <200712271000.50995@aldan> <200712271216.22436.mi+mill@aldan.algebra.com> <20071227.103327.-749251578.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20071227.103327.-749251578.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200712271239.23558.mteterin@mlp.com> Cc: stable@freebsd.org, henrik@gulbra.net, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB issues (not just Re: PR backlog) X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:54:47 -0000 =DE=C5=D4=D7=C5=D2 27 =C7=D2=D5=C4=C5=CE=D8 2007 12:33 =D0=CF, M. Warner = Losh =F7=C9 =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC=C9: > I did the bulk of the work for the 7.0 stuff, at least getting things > into the tree. =9ASince I did the work, my last job got totally insane > and then I switched jobs. As the old Russian saying went: if vodka interferes with your job, you ha= ve to=20 stop working. > We can all agree that this is long overdue. But we need to make sure > of a few critical details so we don't create another mess for > ourselves down the line. Seriosly, thank you and do get back to it whenever you can. =20-mi ###################################################################### The information contained in this communication is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you have received this communication, and are not a named recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. ###################################################################### From owner-freebsd-bugbusters@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 28 07:28:47 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD18F16A417; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from mail.asahi-net.or.jp (mail2.asahi-net.or.jp [202.224.39.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7672F13C47E; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from localhost (unknown [151.197.183.78]) by mail.asahi-net.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A073B52E4C; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:08:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:07:49 -0500 From: Yoshihiro Ota To: remko@elvandar.org Message-Id: <20071228020749.b5fc0ab2.ota@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <18754.194.74.82.3.1198744988.squirrel@galain.elvandar.org> References: <20071226.003547.-932932005.imp@bsdimp.com> <1198689316.1119.382.camel@Particle> <20071226180415.GA27409@soaustin.net> <20071226.114224.-432836428.imp@bsdimp.com> <18754.194.74.82.3.1198744988.squirrel@galain.elvandar.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ota@j.email.ne.jp, stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org, "M. Warner Losh" Subject: Re: PR backlog X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugbusters@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Coordination of the Problem Report handling effort." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:28:47 -0000 On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:43:08 +0100 (CET) "Remko Lodder" wrote: > > Hello Warner et all, > > On Wed, December 26, 2007 7:42 pm, M. Warner Losh wrote: > > Mark and Henrik make a number of good points here. Rather than reply > > to the details, I'm going to make a couple of quick observations. > > > > As a project we're not leveraging the community sufficiently when it > > comes to contributions. The current system of patch review and > > submission is very hap-hazard. If you happen to get the attention of > > the right person at the right time, then it goes in. If not, patches > > can languish a long time in the PR system. > > Indeed, I am one of the persons trying to find these relatively easy > things which I can do along side my other projects and things, but I dont > see them all (eventhough I try to keep track of them as much as possible); > but what will happen is that I learn more and more about the system and at > some point in time I will "stop" working on these easy PR's and seeking > more difficult ones to fix, at that point someone else has to step up to > fill in the gap that gets created; this might be a problematic part :-) > > Though for everyone having simple fixes, please send them to me so that I > can evaluate them and (together with Warner in this case (As my mentor)) I > will try to get them in as correctly and quickly as possible :-) (keeping > up with the high standards of FreeBSD ofcourse). I also opened the PR database a couple weeks ago looking for a solution to bugs I encountered. It's been quite long, some years, since I opened the PR page last time. It was surprising and also disappointing on the number of PRs left open for long time. How do I help that cleaning job? I am also interested fixing and concerned about this fact. Thanks, Hiro