From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 13:36:08 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A0216A41F for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:36:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robin_carey5@yahoo.co.uk) Received: from web23105.mail.ird.yahoo.com (web23105.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.189.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 40C4413C465 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:36:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robin_carey5@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91923 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2007 13:09:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=4ezv0TU34zhWPAFBP0CB2gff1dUXIgeJW/AtKM2Y5zo2MoGZcnTUUMNAQ2jqhcUDRkNDGrlN6/nQJwCdzyXg2+b2j1XNVkrhRH0wojYMgXnKZJX0mE+7H6io05HQ/JmpznZYx1IrPp64pnlRYzZjha1kR3h4S+9CIMLyB/Ypv4M=; X-YMail-OSG: BVMJjsgVM1kS61IoXxLb6_2RFIsHwpeoX5WDYIdNaoS2YzTY8yO3cYYhXnT2WmFBLf01bwX..mR6zb3BECT7exKFhpZqpWZipHd7DVq83FV4Wo8F Received: from [82.12.240.55] by web23105.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:09:25 BST Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:09:25 +0100 (BST) From: Robin Carey To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <217732.90519.qm@web23105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Cc: Subject: ADVERT: Secure communications X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:36:09 -0000 C12-GAMMA; a free software product for FreeBSD/Linux: http://www.caesarion.org.uk Sincerely, R Carey. ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 18:34:16 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2978016A46D for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:34:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF89F13C45E for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:34:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EF220AB; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:34:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.0 (2007-05-01) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1C520A4; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:34:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 75E6E58DD; Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:34:24 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Robin Carey References: <217732.90519.qm@web23105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:34:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <217732.90519.qm@web23105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> (Robin Carey's message of "Sun\, 10 Jun 2007 14\:09\:25 +0100 \(BST\)") Message-ID: <863b0zodzj.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ADVERT: Secure communications X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:34:16 -0000 Robin Carey writes: > C12-GAMMA; a free software product for FreeBSD/Linux: > > http://www.caesarion.org.uk A shoo-in candidate for Bruce Schneier's doghouse award... DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 14:36:15 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8611916A46B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:36:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reply@mymarketing.co.il) Received: from mmmailgw02.mymarketing.co.il (mmmailgw02.mymarketing.co.il [194.90.201.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF26F13C44C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:36:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reply@mymarketing.co.il) SUBMITTER: reply@mymarketing.co.il Received: from mmmailgw02.mymarketing.co.il ([192.168.19.202]) by activetrail.com (activetrail.com) X-BBounce: 13907445|55449|freebsd-chat@freebsd.org|3|0|237|1 From: "Paragon-Conventions" To: "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:22:54 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: XVI- World IFTA Congress, 26-29 March, 2008, Porto, Portugal X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:36:15 -0000 If= you can not see this email properly, please [1]cli= ck here [www=2Eparagon-convention=] [2]3D"ice207 3D"ice207 3Deof Dear Colleagues The International Family Therapy Association has announced that its = 16th World Family Therapy Congress will be held in Porto, Portugal Marc= h 26-29, 2008=2E The congress theme is Transformation and Globaliza= tion: Family Therapy in the 21st Century=2E The World Family Therapy Congress has a rich history of bringing tog= ether the greatest clinicians from around the world and we invite you t= o submit an abstract for consideration for the congress program=2E This= congress will explore how family therapy contributes to the changes be= ing experienced by families worldwide; the impact of post-modernism on = the field; and Intimacy, Desire, and Domesticity=2E In addition to the = traditional workshops and paper sessions, we encourage potential speake= rs to propose creative experiences for participants that will increase = opportunities for learning and networking=2E The deadline for abstracts= in October 31, 2007 and all abstracts must be submitted online at [3]www=2Epar= agon-conventions=2Ecom/ifta2008=2E We expect Porto to be one of our most successful congresses ever and= have made sure that the locale and venue provide ample opportunities f= or learning, sharing, and networking=2E We hope that you will consider = being a speaker in Porto and submit an abstract=2E [ifta=] =20 [4]Important dates Deadline for submission of Abstracts October 31, 2007 [ifta2=] Early registration November 30, 2007= [5]Topics 3Ddfg Congress theme: Transformation and Globalizations: Family Therapy in the 2= 1st Century=2E=20 The sub-themes: The Global Family in Flux; Intimacy, Desire, and Domestic= ity; and Family Therapy in a Post-Modern World=2E ORGANIZERS Paragon Conventions 3Ddfg 18 Avenue Louis-Casai 5th floor 1= 209 Geneva, Switzerland Tel: +41 22 7477930 E-mail: [6]ilev@paragon-conventio= ns=2Ecom Website: [7]www=2Eparagon-convention= s=2Ecom [8]Join Our Mailing List 3Ddfg We can update you wi= th upcoming news and changes=2E Just [9]click here we will send you news and updates [10][mailing=] = 3D= [www=2Eparagon-convention=] <= /TR> if you can't see the page click [11]www=2Eparagon-conventions=2Ecom/ifta2008/mailin= g/ifta08_01=2Ehtml _________________________________________________________________ [ico-print=2Egif"] [12]Click here to print this Page [0X6A759C56B6CDCE6=] To remove yourself from= the mailing list please [13]click here = Powered by [14]ActiveTrail=2Ecom=2E<= br> References Visible links 1. 3D"http://www=2Ewe=/ 2. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links/0X= 3. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links/0X2D1= 4. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links= 5. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links= 6. 3D"mailto:ilev@paragon-conventions=2Ecom" 7. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links/0X707FCFB59A48030D3E= 8. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links/0X1A6A4E152B463315B2184= 9. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-vi=/ 10. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Links/0X7F= 11. 3D"http://tra=/ 12. 3D"http://www=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Print/0X6A75= 13. 3D'http://www=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Out_0X6= 14. 3D'http://www=2Eactivetrail=2Ecom/' Hidden links: 15. 3D"http://trailer=2Eweb-view=2Enet/Link= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 00:26:26 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D578F16A46D for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:26:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lulf@stud.ntnu.no) Received: from fri.itea.ntnu.no (fri.itea.ntnu.no [129.241.7.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9079C13C45D for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:26:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lulf@stud.ntnu.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fri.itea.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2D18830E; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:59:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from twoflower.idi.ntnu.no (twoflower.idi.ntnu.no [129.241.104.169]) by fri.itea.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:59:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: by twoflower.idi.ntnu.no (Postfix, from userid 1002) id C0D0817023; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:59:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:59:48 +0200 From: Ulf Lilleengen To: Liam Foy Message-ID: <20070613235948.GA64245@twoflower.idi.ntnu.no> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) X-Content-Scanned: with sophos and spamassassin at mailgw.ntnu.no. Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDPortal rss feeds X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:26:26 -0000 On Mon, May 28, 2007 at 08:55:34PM +0100, Liam Foy wrote: > Hello folks, > > I have been looking at http://bsdportal.org recently and we need some new > RSS feeds. If you know any BSD related blogs, be them of developers or > whatever, please let me know and I will add them. Here: http://planet.freebsdish.org/ This planet have a lot of FreeBSD-related blogs at least (I didn't find any link to this on the bsdportal.org-site so I assume you have not seen it). -- Ulf Lilleengen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 23:46:26 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ABEF16A46D for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from boris@brooknet.com.au) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFDE13C487 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from boris@brooknet.com.au) Received: from 28.201.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.201.28] helo=[192.168.100.148]) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HzKZS-0008Ea-PV; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 08:47:11 +1000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Sam Lawrance Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 08:46:54 +1000 To: Garrett Cooper X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD deciding _now_ what to do about Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:46:26 -0000 On 16/06/2007, at 6:07 AM, youshi10@u.washington.edu wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jun 2007, Ali Mashtizadeh wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Sun's pushing ATI/AMD to provide good drivers for Solaris, so it =20 >> means they >> will have to work on the portability issue of their drivers. It is =20= >> probably >> the best time to influence AMD's decision since they are going to =20 >> do what >> Sun tells them. Nvidia has an easier time porting their drivers =20 >> since the >> core of the driver is the same across all platforms AFAIK. =20 >> Hopefully, they >> will realize the best stratedgy is to open source their drivers, =20 >> which there >> has been some hints about it recently. >> >> --=20 >> Ali Mashtizadeh >> =D8=B9=D9=84=DB=8C =D9=85=D8=B4=D8=AA=DB=8C =D8=B2=D8=A7=D8=AF=D9=87 >> >> On 6/15/07, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 02:03:39PM -0400, Ali Mashtizadeh wrote: >>> > Hey everyone, >>> > >>> > This email went out on Xorg I thought it might be useful for =20 >>> all of us >>> stuck >>> > with ATI cards. We should all show our interest in AMD helping =20= >>> out the >>> BSD >>> > community as well! Just like Nvidia has been doing! >>> >>> "Linux strategy" -- gotta love the use of the word "strategy", like >>> they're playing chess or Risk or Daisenryaku. Yes, because =20 >>> supporting >>> an operating system involves "strategy". >>> >>> Not to sound rude, but I wouldn't hold your breath over the =20 >>> statement. >>> Yes, *absolutely* mail them and show support for the BSDs, and =20 >>> tell them >>> you'll be happy to beta test whatever they put out (as long as =20 >>> they have >>> a good feedback method for reporting those bugs; not some defunct =20= >>> HTML >>> form web page that sends submissions to /dev/null). >>> >>> I believe AMD/ATI cares about providing a good driver base (for =20 >>> Linux >>> and probably the BSDs), but no matter how many customers mail =20 >>> them, the >>> reality of the situation is a disappointing one: managers and =20 >>> executives >>> of sorts are who have say over all of this, who decide all of =20 >>> this, and >>> who ultimately make the statements on all of this. As a Texan co-=20= >>> worker >>> of mine says, "too many chiefs, not enough indians". nVidia has the >>> same "problem", for what it's worth. >>> >>> -- >>> | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at =20 >>> parodius.com | >>> | Parodius Networking http://=20 >>> www.parodius.com/ | >>> | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, =20 >>> CA, USA | >>> | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: =20 >>> 4BD6C0CB | > > 1. This shouldn't have been sent to the hackers@ list, because it's =20= > more of a discussion than a technical topic. > 2. Please top post. > > Disregarding those 2 comments, I have a few thoughts: I'd certainly disregard that second point. :-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 09:40:42 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8DF16A41F for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 09:40:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu (mxout2.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D2413C457 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 09:40:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.7] (may be forged)) by mxout2.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.05) with ESMTP id l5G9edHp016510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Jun 2007 02:40:39 -0700 X-Auth-Received: from [192.168.10.45] (c-24-10-12-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.10.12.194]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.03) with ESMTP id l5G9ecsn019353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 16 Jun 2007 02:40:38 -0700 Message-ID: <4673B019.5080203@u.washington.edu> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 02:40:41 -0700 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Lawrance References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.1.294258, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.1.298604, Antispam-Data: 2007.6.16.21852 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HIGHBITS 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __RUS_HASHBUSTER_KOI8R 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD deciding _now_ what to do about Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 09:40:42 -0000 Sam Lawrance wrote: > > On 16/06/2007, at 6:07 AM, youshi10@u.washington.edu wrote: > >> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007, Ali Mashtizadeh wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sun's pushing ATI/AMD to provide good drivers for Solaris, so it >>> means they >>> will have to work on the portability issue of their drivers. It is >>> probably >>> the best time to influence AMD's decision since they are going to do >>> what >>> Sun tells them. Nvidia has an easier time porting their drivers >>> since the >>> core of the driver is the same across all platforms AFAIK. >>> Hopefully, they >>> will realize the best stratedgy is to open source their drivers, >>> which there >>> has been some hints about it recently. >>> >>> -- >>> Ali Mashtizadeh >>> علی مشتی زاده >>> >>> On 6/15/07, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 02:03:39PM -0400, Ali Mashtizadeh wrote: >>>> > Hey everyone, >>>> > >>>> > This email went out on Xorg I thought it might be useful for all >>>> of us >>>> stuck >>>> > with ATI cards. We should all show our interest in AMD helping >>>> out the >>>> BSD >>>> > community as well! Just like Nvidia has been doing! >>>> >>>> "Linux strategy" -- gotta love the use of the word "strategy", like >>>> they're playing chess or Risk or Daisenryaku. Yes, because supporting >>>> an operating system involves "strategy". >>>> >>>> Not to sound rude, but I wouldn't hold your breath over the statement. >>>> Yes, *absolutely* mail them and show support for the BSDs, and tell >>>> them >>>> you'll be happy to beta test whatever they put out (as long as they >>>> have >>>> a good feedback method for reporting those bugs; not some defunct HTML >>>> form web page that sends submissions to /dev/null). >>>> >>>> I believe AMD/ATI cares about providing a good driver base (for Linux >>>> and probably the BSDs), but no matter how many customers mail them, >>>> the >>>> reality of the situation is a disappointing one: managers and >>>> executives >>>> of sorts are who have say over all of this, who decide all of this, >>>> and >>>> who ultimately make the statements on all of this. As a Texan >>>> co-worker >>>> of mine says, "too many chiefs, not enough indians". nVidia has the >>>> same "problem", for what it's worth. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at >>>> parodius.com | >>>> | Parodius Networking >>>> http://www.parodius.com/ | >>>> | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, >>>> CA, USA | >>>> | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: >>>> 4BD6C0CB | >> >> 1. This shouldn't have been sent to the hackers@ list, because it's >> more of a discussion than a technical topic. >> 2. Please top post. >> >> Disregarding those 2 comments, I have a few thoughts: > > I'd certainly disregard that second point. > > :-) Yes. s/top post/don't top post/ -Garrett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 21:16:55 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EADB016A469; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:16:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.135]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FA613C45E; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:16:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9] (may be forged)) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.05) with ESMTP id l5GLGjFw018109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:16:46 -0700 X-Auth-Received: from [192.168.10.45] (c-24-10-12-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.10.12.194]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.03) with ESMTP id l5GLGiJw011286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:16:45 -0700 Message-ID: <46745340.6090702@u.washington.edu> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:16:48 -0700 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte References: <200706161733.RAA14937@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20070616191714.GA38504@freebie.xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <20070616191714.GA38504@freebie.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.1.294258, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.1.298604, Antispam-Data: 2007.6.16.135834 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CP_MEDIA_2_BODY 0, __CP_MEDIA_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dieter , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: AMD deciding _now_ what to do about Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:16:56 -0000 Wilko Bulte wrote: > On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 10:33:00AM +0100, Dieter wrote.. > >> So who, exactly, is the best person to write to requesting >> docs for AMD/ATI graphics/video chips? >> >> We need to politely inform them that >> >> There are a lot of operating systems out there, >> and they all need high quality, fully functional drivers. >> FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Plan-9, Open-Solaris, ... >> >> We might want to add a ATI graphics/video card to a computer >> with a different CPU architecture (Alpha, Sparc, PPC, ...) >> >> Binary drivers are useless, because: >> Too many OSes. >> Too many CPU archs. >> Can't fix bugs. >> Can't fix security holes. >> Therefore we need documentation on how to program the chips. >> >> 2D is not enough. We need video decoding and 3D. >> >> If we can't have high quality, fully functional source code drivers >> for the OS and CPU arch of our choice, then there is no reason to >> buy the product. >> >> Have I left out anything? >> > > Well.. yes. "How much revenue ($$) AMD will loose when these open > source projects do not get the chip docs". > > Ultimately the $$ question is what exec level management will ask. > > Countering the above statements (the following are important questions to answer, and should be done by their business types with more hard data): How much money will AMD lose on competitive edge versus market segment share for the particular open source customer base? How much of the ATI drivers will they have to modify in order to ensure that they remain IP protected and the extremely proprietary sections don't get put out in the open by accident? -Garrett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 21:43:54 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FEB16A468 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:43:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDC613C484 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:43:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (obsolete.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l5GLU7p8087575; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l5GLU6kf039749; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.6/Submit) id l5GLU6PQ039746; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:30:06 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20070616213006.GA39721@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <200706161733.RAA14937@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20070616191714.GA38504@freebie.xs4all.nl> <46745340.6090702@u.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46745340.6090702@u.washington.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dieter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fwd: AMD deciding _now_ what to do about Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:43:54 -0000 On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 02:16:48PM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote.. > Wilko Bulte wrote: > >On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 10:33:00AM +0100, Dieter wrote.. > > > >>So who, exactly, is the best person to write to requesting > >>docs for AMD/ATI graphics/video chips? > >> > >>We need to politely inform them that > >> > >> There are a lot of operating systems out there, > >> and they all need high quality, fully functional drivers. > >> FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Plan-9, Open-Solaris, ... > >> > >> We might want to add a ATI graphics/video card to a computer > >> with a different CPU architecture (Alpha, Sparc, PPC, ...) > >> > >> Binary drivers are useless, because: > >> Too many OSes. > >> Too many CPU archs. > >> Can't fix bugs. > >> Can't fix security holes. > >> Therefore we need documentation on how to program the chips. > >> > >> 2D is not enough. We need video decoding and 3D. > >> > >> If we can't have high quality, fully functional source code drivers > >> for the OS and CPU arch of our choice, then there is no reason to > >> buy the product. > >> > >>Have I left out anything? > >> > > > >Well.. yes. "How much revenue ($$) AMD will loose when these open > >source projects do not get the chip docs". > > > >Ultimately the $$ question is what exec level management will ask. > > > > > Countering the above statements (the following are important I would not call that countering, I think we agree? > questions to answer, and should be done by their business types with > more hard data): > How much money will AMD lose on competitive edge versus market > segment share for the particular open source customer base? And is that enough to be noticable in the grander (MS-Windows) scheme of things> > How much of the ATI drivers will they have to modify in order to > ensure that they remain IP protected and the extremely proprietary > sections don't get put out in the open by accident? The outcome might even be that this is not worthwhile for them.. (blackest possible outcome, I agree). > -Garrett -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org