From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 13 00:40:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0859E16A417 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:40:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from raghesh.al@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4EB913C458 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:40:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from raghesh.al@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so432871waf for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:40:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=jVKwztFujzN1cMIMTxxytXJBqsC4FvOw7jfQQHCp7r8=; b=KjBYWgS/uXX0kzjN7thZV5dXFZlR1H2qNnNaG1DFeXQh0yW+DptN1LvDnTDimc2uo/YSvqPg1LMSb/U1XDT8/qoRoAHvFvQUY7MsiUR9h9weL1aXrnh87cN5FNYDd49EjfyhB0QbWquFveB13gtdInZ3rSh6AqI5DC1D5NH3Rj8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=UN9Fbw2YqIX0N9eX9/CQqlgsH/z5KruXNpHwIZizI8CUV2wntypnNc8m1tb5UtG8LEEsDz5A3nNyFrp3RMzCMOBWiQCqMRTONOG6qUE4SrDkyiWmc2maDd6l6js2+ntX/BJjw/fHeyeoHzUQ56CErjUQUwkvnPeKkzaJ1tQXw0o= Received: by 10.114.110.1 with SMTP id i1mr92482wac.1189642447039; Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.202.6 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5d18c3a00709121714q39697522n2ac8b39c18bf69c7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:44:06 +0530 From: "Raghesh A" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Two Day International Conference X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:40:48 -0000 Friends, A two day international conference (ICIST2007) is planned at Thrissur(Kerala, India) during 14,15 December 2007 with Free Software as the principal theme. RMS has agreed to engage the participants in a virtual session and clarify online to any subsequent queries. Papers are solicited for ICIST2007. Details are at http://mesengg.ac.in/icist2007.htm From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 13 12:32:19 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CFB616A41B for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:32:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6310613C45B for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:32:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l8DCUutW034175; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:31:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l8DCUuM3034174; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:30:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200709131230.l8DCUuM3034174@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <46DBF48E.7030806@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:31:02 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: freebsdmall.com prices X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:32:19 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > I've just looked at the prices at www.freebsdmall.com, and found that they are > overwhelming. A full FreeBSD release costs like 40$. 40$?! HOLY SHIT! Who would > buy it for that much money when you can download it for free? I don't know in which part of the world you live, but not everybody on this planet has a hyper fast DSL, satelite, cable, T1, whatever internet connection with a flatrate. There are still quite many people with slower modem or ISDN uplinks or similar who don't want to cram their lines for several days to download an ISO image. Or they don't want to pay the price if they pay by volume or by time. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that FreeBSD Mall is not the only shop that sells FreeBSD media. Just for example, in Germany the Lehmanns book shop sells FreeBSD DVDs (that's 8 GB worth of data) for 9.95 Euro which is about 14 US dollars. Subscriptions are even 15% less. http://www.lob.de/cgi-bin/out?isbn=3865411886 If you think something is worth buying, then buy it. Otherwise don't buy it. It's that simple. If nobody buys a product, the vendor will either have to change it (value/price) or stop offering it. Since FreeBSD Mall doesn't seem to change or stop, I assume that there are sufficiently many people buying from them. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 13 12:36:18 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D76516A41A for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:36:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC0913C468 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:36:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l8DC5MYZ033231; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:05:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l8DC5Jwr033230; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:05:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:05:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200709131205.l8DC5Jwr033230@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <46C863A6.5010404@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:05:27 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: filesystem timestamps and their usage X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:36:18 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > Let's talk about file system timestamps. What kind of timestamps are > there currently, and what are they used for? This is a late reply, but I haven't seen that question of yours answered so far, so I try to give it a shot. First of all, time stamp support depends on two things: the file system and the operating system. In order to be able to use a certain kind of time stamp, both of them have to support it. For example, FAT does not distinguish between mtime and ctime, so FreeBSD treats them the same on FAT file systems. The following assumes you use UFS2, which is FreeBSD's default. It supports four kinds of file time stamps: - mtime (displayed by "ls -l"): This is updated each time the file is written to. - atime ("ls -lu"): Updated each time the file is read. Can be disabled (for performance reasons) by mounting a file system with the "noatime" option. - ctime ("ls -lc"): Updated each time the file status changes. In other words, when the meta data contained in the inode changes, or when a directory entry associated with the inode changes. For example, renaming or moving a file will update the ctime, also changing ownerships, permissions etc. - birthtime ("ls -lU"): The time when the inode was created. It never changes. You can read the details in the stat(2) manual page, including an exact enumeration of syscalls which affect the various time stamps. The first three of the time stamps (mtime, atime and ctime) are specified by standards (POSIX, SUS), so there's not much room for discussion, I think. Also keep in mind that FreeBSD needs to be interoperable with other systems, so adhering to the standards is a must. The birthtime is an extension, but I think it is a natural and useful one (FAT supports it, too, by the way). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "Clear perl code is better than unclear awk code; but NOTHING comes close to unclear perl code" (taken from comp.lang.awk FAQ) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 13 13:50:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD0D16A418 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:50:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9198413C458 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:50:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so490691nfb for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:50:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=l1F/QF5H2CvsDioe4i/xMAJCYD8bDf154zZ24xclIfs=; b=msZKwBBbJ/adhQNb3DcmZrijQrv9gXGRuBgDuOLWWz0MuBUBB6nnt9yzxuVl+C2xaM6eA5UC3V68jpD8jH1zpMvmd7z43AhBWcnoc27qMEcDhHEGyV8+aKrgVJPeIMslZ0KBpX3IKB2n0z3ie2+YMW40hZ+5/eO8HvUweZbaL5U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JOXkSYQVPr9jNizMphUq8GvNFYA7lKJ7SgoO/5Tpnt+cYPEipkuL8IP+zd3JPA7ohxLVmgihfnZvjfFnthn0/JORiPKcTIUJhEdcgrSABmM2mgbATknIj1nyBwvGY1o2JKiwea/o/7Y9s5Uams8Dc2i2bQJpV6iG5IzwKc+KzW0= Received: by 10.86.51.2 with SMTP id y2mr556030fgy.1189691442569; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.0.103.140]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f31sm15641395fkf.2007.09.13.06.50.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 06:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46E94037.9070807@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:50:47 +0200 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200709131205.l8DC5Jwr033230@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <200709131205.l8DC5Jwr033230@lurza.secnetix.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: filesystem timestamps and their usage X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:50:46 -0000 Oliver Fromme wrote: > deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > > Let's talk about file system timestamps. What kind of timestamps are > > there currently, and what are they used for? > > This is a late reply, but I haven't seen that question of > yours answered so far, so I try to give it a shot. > > First of all, time stamp support depends on two things: > the file system and the operating system. In order to > be able to use a certain kind of time stamp, both of > them have to support it. For example, FAT does not > distinguish between mtime and ctime, so FreeBSD treats > them the same on FAT file systems. > > The following assumes you use UFS2, which is FreeBSD's > default. It supports four kinds of file time stamps: > > - mtime (displayed by "ls -l"): This is updated each > time the file is written to. > > - atime ("ls -lu"): Updated each time the file is read. > Can be disabled (for performance reasons) by mounting > a file system with the "noatime" option. > > - ctime ("ls -lc"): Updated each time the file status > changes. In other words, when the meta data contained > in the inode changes, or when a directory entry > associated with the inode changes. For example, > renaming or moving a file will update the ctime, > also changing ownerships, permissions etc. > > - birthtime ("ls -lU"): The time when the inode was > created. It never changes. > > You can read the details in the stat(2) manual page, > including an exact enumeration of syscalls which affect > the various time stamps. > > The first three of the time stamps (mtime, atime and > ctime) are specified by standards (POSIX, SUS), so > there's not much room for discussion, I think. Also > keep in mind that FreeBSD needs to be interoperable > with other systems, so adhering to the standards is > a must. The birthtime is an extension, but I think > it is a natural and useful one (FAT supports it, too, > by the way). > > Best regards > Oliver > I know that every stuff like this is different here and there, and actually the topic should have been named something like "let's make a filesystem, what timestamps would you recommend?". I've already looked up information about the UFS times (didn't know what birthtime is though). But thanks anyway. What surprized me is that these are standardized. How do you detect UFS hard links from a program? Do these "virtual files" have the same birth time? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 13 15:05:11 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428BE16A419 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:05:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6548D13C474 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:05:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l8DF3kn0039469; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:03:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l8DF3k8N039468; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:03:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:03:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200709131503.l8DF3k8N039468@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <46E94037.9070807@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:03:54 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: filesystem timestamps and their usage X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:05:11 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > I know that every stuff like this is different here and there, and > actually the topic should have been named something like "let's make > a filesystem, what timestamps would you recommend?". I've already > looked up information about the UFS times (didn't know what birthtime > is though). But thanks anyway. What surprized me is that these are > standardized. Of course they are. After all, the "U" in UFS means UNIX. And how do you think NFS would work across different systems if time stamp semantics weren't standardized? > How do you detect UFS hard links from a program? What do you mean, exactly? Every file is an inode, and every directory entry (file name) is a hard link to an inode. An inode can have zero, one, or more names (hard links) within a file system. So, asking how to "detect hard links" does not make sense. Do you mean how to find the number of hard links of an inode? That's stored in the st_nlink value when you perform a stat(2), lstat(2) or fstat(2) syscall. > Do these "virtual files" have the same birth time? Hard links are not "virtual files". A hard link is a directory entry that points to an inode. There is nothing virtual about it. All properties ("meta data") of a file are stored in the inode. That includes owner, permissions, flags, and all the time stamps, including the birth time. A directory entry is just a name (character string) and a pointer to the inode. So if you have multiple entries (hard links) pointing to the same inode, they point to the same meta data. In other words, multiple hard links of the same inode cannot have different time stamps, permissions, owner etc. You can easily test it yourself: $ date; touch a; sleep 10; date; ln a b; ls -liTU a b Thu Sep 13 17:02:49 CEST 2007 Thu Sep 13 17:02:59 CEST 2007 3651805 -rw------- 2 olli olli 0 Sep 13 17:02:49 2007 a 3651805 -rw------- 2 olli olli 0 Sep 13 17:02:49 2007 b $ Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Passwords are like underwear. You don't share them, you don't hang them on your monitor or under your keyboard, you don't email them, or put them on a web site, and you must change them very often. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 13 22:09:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2209E16A421 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:09:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.234]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A7B13C465 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:09:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 70so353597wra for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:09:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SjInVHqH1nrNUQKcB3E0JynUms+GAxkcTkVEMeBKrv4=; b=rlTz962M43wP3TKYKwlMU91GWrYR8EQRhbTFJzZ5Bfx3mpiVHKSLOUvSUUbtDKt3dfgyZavi5yW6ipVJYnVWHCy0DbEQRYOmWnn0Hgq8BLTYSDwr0e7PcTWvxgAlcnqa+Mwv08G+rptlvDPjPS3zPj+RTtdPqoFXxBlamgM5k8k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=e9sZzHgb5v1ATgb89uHPF/E412sEoi0GSNqVF0/+tW1Dz9Uhg7hSKwlkgYocLHN9nQnUGAcwvFG6MRQv1t7OJteC8xSpvR7dUlfMPxFB5E1Ipm//AHi8kBn9KC6aq72PWUPsgASiUsyDeb5UfV8f55cW59xbCCy9YSlTJQeC2WM= Received: by 10.86.57.9 with SMTP id f9mr855139fga.1189721386539; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.0.107.109]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f31sm40363fkf.2007.09.13.15.09.44 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46E9B530.4070107@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:09:52 +0200 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200709131503.l8DF3k8N039468@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <200709131503.l8DF3k8N039468@lurza.secnetix.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: filesystem timestamps and their usage X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:09:49 -0000 Oliver Fromme wrote: > All properties ("meta data") of a file are stored in > the inode. That includes owner, permissions, flags, > and all the time stamps, including the birth time. > So if you have multiple > entries (hard links) pointing to the same inode, > they point to the same meta data. In other words, > multiple hard links of the same inode cannot have > different time stamps, permissions, owner etc. OK. > Hard links are not "virtual files". A hard link is a > directory entry that points to an inode. There is > nothing virtual about it. Quotes often mean that some some sarcasm is added to the words enclosed.