From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 5 05:51:10 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88FC16A419 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 05:51:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AF013C455 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 05:51:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost.apl.washington.edu [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l955ljIb056961; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l955lhEx056960; Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:47:43 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Aryeh Friedman Message-ID: <20071005054743.GA56921@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: viral license free fork of freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:51:10 -0000 On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 05:03:08AM +0000, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > I am intrested in putting together a version of FreeBSD (at least the > non-ports portion) that is 100% viral license (gpl and lgpl [not > techinically viral but I don't trust it]) free... where would be a > good starting point on this project? This is off-topic for the freebsd-current list. Try freebsd-chat or freebsd-advocacy. Redirected to chat. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 5 10:32:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FCC16A417 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:32:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from mail1.webmaster.com (mail1.webmaster.com [216.152.64.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02A6E13C447 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:32:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from however by webmaster.com (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.3.R) with ESMTP id md50001714676.msg for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:22:06 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Freebsd-Chat@Freebsd. Org" Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 03:21:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Importance: Normal X-Authenticated-Sender: joelkatz@webmaster.com X-Spam-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:22:06 -0700 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 206.171.168.138 X-Return-Path: davids@webmaster.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-MDAV-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:22:07 -0700 Subject: RE: viral license free fork of freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: davids@webmaster.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:32:28 -0000 > I am intrested in putting together a version of FreeBSD (at least the > non-ports portion) that is 100% viral license (gpl and lgpl [not > techinically viral but I don't trust it]) free... where would be a > good starting point on this project? The short answer is that you simply cannot do this. You cannot set the licensing terms on code you did not write without a written relicensing agreement from the original author, which you don't have. This is the law in the United States and it's probably impossible for this or other reasons elsewhere. If you merely distribute FreeBSD, you obtain *your* license to distribute from the BSD license. However, you have no role whatsoever in the license the recipients you distribute to get from the original authors (other than making them lawful possessors of the code). And they don't need any license to simply own the code or to use it. If they wish to modify it or distribute it themselves, then they obtain whatever license each original author offers from that author directly. You are not a *licensing* intermediary. You can certainly make modifications and contributions of your own and offer them under any license you would like. But you cannot change the fact that the original authors of all the pieces you are taking has offered them to anyone who possesses them under a BSD license. Recipients still get those BSD licenses and the BSD license prohibits you from removing the notification that they do. (Though you can certainly add your own notification that some parts are not offered under the BSD license.) I'd prefer not to pollute even the chat list with this, so if there's anything you don't understand or that isn't clear, feel free to email me personally first. If you still think I'm wrong after you hear my response, then post to the list. There's just too much misinformation out there already and this has been patiently explained dozens of times. DS From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 5 10:55:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEEDF16A41A for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:55:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from mail1.webmaster.com (mail1.webmaster.com [216.152.64.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD0213C461 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:55:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from however by webmaster.com (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.3.R) with ESMTP id md50001714701.msg for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:55:26 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Freebsd-Chat@Freebsd. Org" Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 03:54:42 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Authenticated-Sender: joelkatz@webmaster.com X-Spam-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:55:26 -0700 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 206.171.168.138 X-Return-Path: davids@webmaster.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-MDAV-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:55:32 -0700 Subject: RE: viral license free fork of freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: davids@webmaster.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:55:13 -0000 > > I am intrested in putting together a version of FreeBSD (at least the > > non-ports portion) that is 100% viral license (gpl and lgpl [not > > techinically viral but I don't trust it]) free... where would be a > > good starting point on this project? > The short answer is that you simply cannot do this. You cannot > set the licensing terms on code you did not write without a > written relicensing agreement from the original author, which you > don't have. This is the law in the United States and it's > probably impossible for this or other reasons elsewhere. [snip] Ignore me. I'm sorry, I misread his original post. I saw the "100% viral license" and didn't connect the "free" after the parenthesis to mean *NO* viral license. Not "100% viral license" and "free" which is clearly not what he meant. So here I am bringing up the very thing I was complaining about constantly being brought up. In my defense, it is 4AMish my time. DS From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 5 11:04:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3402116A418 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:04:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3D0B13C448 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so980948pyb for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 04:04:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=IdsSxMVoVXZQ2NLlES3J2P9m7JtfHy+nr7NCGi3I9Dw=; b=JCPn7a9m7xcB3HoPoCp0av3PqtZWK7opFD1UlD6nr6rBlwuTEAyjobdyaF0h8ZI4w44almUmoqbaZxAS1w/0ncTgLwLEsrc2dPZblejdwrFe/47stLSwm8WlopUgBpogb9XifXjIQQBuEyBjEpIm6YptAxFNuX5xzk+EK1/OQgs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fMb6D5y9A0bGgvkkytIsfycfTXp4pcQS5ZJNmt/iD5ZY8iIJfaBCufVWlEgr5PKHd005ypwZDqX7dZPpcTTayLNRuVftqunHH7CJc775wirx2L9BubrdVqbrDw52mGQNc0sWXX9tybTK9ewhTgS7Bktex0rrSyeW3hfG80eCeYs= Received: by 10.65.53.3 with SMTP id f3mr18556135qbk.1191580595703; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 03:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.105.2 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 03:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:36:35 +0000 From: "Aryeh Friedman" To: davids@webmaster.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Cc: "Freebsd-Chat@Freebsd. Org" Subject: Re: viral license free fork of freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:04:13 -0000 Thanks for not telling me anything I haven't known On 10/5/07, David Schwartz wrote: > > > I am intrested in putting together a version of FreeBSD (at least the > > non-ports portion) that is 100% viral license (gpl and lgpl [not > > techinically viral but I don't trust it]) free... where would be a > > good starting point on this project? > > The short answer is that you simply cannot do this. You cannot set the > licensing terms on code you did not write without a written relicensing > agreement from the original author, which you don't have. This is the law in > the United States and it's probably impossible for this or other reasons > elsewhere. > > If you merely distribute FreeBSD, you obtain *your* license to distribute > from the BSD license. However, you have no role whatsoever in the license > the recipients you distribute to get from the original authors (other than > making them lawful possessors of the code). And they don't need any license > to simply own the code or to use it. If they wish to modify it or distribute > it themselves, then they obtain whatever license each original author offers > from that author directly. You are not a *licensing* intermediary. > > You can certainly make modifications and contributions of your own and offer > them under any license you would like. But you cannot change the fact that > the original authors of all the pieces you are taking has offered them to > anyone who possesses them under a BSD license. Recipients still get those > BSD licenses and the BSD license prohibits you from removing the > notification that they do. (Though you can certainly add your own > notification that some parts are not offered under the BSD license.) > > I'd prefer not to pollute even the chat list with this, so if there's > anything you don't understand or that isn't clear, feel free to email me > personally first. If you still think I'm wrong after you hear my response, > then post to the list. There's just too much misinformation out there > already and this has been patiently explained dozens of times. > > DS > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 5 14:12:09 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E596716A418 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:12:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com (ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com [38.99.2.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C816613C45B for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:12:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-170-114-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.170.114.32] helo=reedmedia.net) by ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.54) id 1IdnGn-0003eZ-1w; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 06:31:09 -0700 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 27641-1191591066; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 08:31:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 08:31:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20071005054743.GA56921@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: References: <20071005054743.GA56921@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Aryeh Friedman Subject: Re: viral license free fork of freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:12:10 -0000 > On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 05:03:08AM +0000, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > I am intrested in putting together a version of FreeBSD (at least the > > non-ports portion) that is 100% viral license (gpl and lgpl [not > > techinically viral but I don't trust it]) free... where would be a > > good starting point on this project? It has been discussed on this list many times. Find or code replacements. Look in the src/gnu directory. bc OpenBSD, another from NetBSD developer (replace his GPL version) binutils http://wiki.freebsd.org/BSDBintools cc pcc (and others) cpio many replacements available, like bsdcpio(1) using libarchive csu ? cvs see OpenBSD dc 2 replacements available: OpenBSD and from NetBSD developer dialog http://www.freebsdsoftware.org/misc/freedialog.html diff see OpenBSD and others diff3 see OpenBSD and others gdb see OpenBSD and others for debugger alternatives gperf ? grep NetBSD, OpenBSD groff see MirBSD and from ragge libdialog see above libgcc ? libgcov ? libgomp ? libreadline editline libregex don't use it, don't use GNU gdb, cvs, diff, and grep. man NetBSD, OpenBSD patch NetBSD, OpenBSD rcs OpenBSD sdiff NetBSD, OpenBSD send-pr OpenBSD (sendbug) sort NetBSD, OpenBSD texinfo Get rid of its usage and move to ports only Jeremy C. Reed