From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 31 07:30:11 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB1416A46B for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:30:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEDF13C4A7 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:30:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9V6RpTB076846 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <47282067.8070706@highperformance.net> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:27:51 -0700 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070922) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Subject: Mailer Error Messages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:30:11 -0000 This is just a short little complaint. Could we please make mail exchange error messages just a little more understandable? For the rare occurrences where I actually get a legit non-spam induced bounce it would be nice to be able to quickly discern what happened. 1 - Don't use pronouns. "This domain is is blacklisted." Oh I see it was "THIS" domain that was blacklisted. That clears things up. Contact the postmaster? Oh I see "THE" postmaster. 2 - Say what you mean to say. ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- Actually, the address probably didn't have any errors. It was probably some sort of anti-spam in play. 3 - Use complete sentences. Please include a subject and verb PLUS the reason why there is an error. "server.foo.com rejected server.bar.com for reason." "There is no mailbox suchandsuch at server.foo.com." (now I must wonder what sort of default sillyness my server spews to everyone else when every variety of spam malfeasance reflects of my MX) I used to think that running my own MX was neat. Now I am starting to think that this is the realm of wizards. Can mere mortals use the internet without ceaselessly battling with asshats? The fight is all gone out of me. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 31 21:12:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5EC16A480 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:12:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marcus@blazingdot.com) Received: from marklar.blazingdot.com (marklar.blazingdot.com [207.154.84.83]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE05D13C491 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:12:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marcus@blazingdot.com) Received: (qmail 49345 invoked by uid 503); 31 Oct 2007 20:45:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:45:07 -0800 From: Marcus Reid To: "Jason C. Wells" Message-ID: <20071031204507.GA40071@blazingdot.com> References: <47282067.8070706@highperformance.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47282067.8070706@highperformance.net> X-Coffee-Level: nearly-fatal User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailer Error Messages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:12:13 -0000 On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 11:27:51PM -0700, Jason C. Wells wrote: > This is just a short little complaint. Could we please make mail > exchange error messages just a little more understandable? For the rare > occurrences where I actually get a legit non-spam induced bounce it > would be nice to be able to quickly discern what happened. > > 1 - Don't use pronouns. "This domain is is blacklisted." Oh I see it > was "THIS" domain that was blacklisted. That clears things up. Contact > the postmaster? Oh I see "THE" postmaster. That sounds like arbitrary text that came from a mail server that you tried to deliver mail to. It probably rejected your mail with a 550 and gave you a (admittedly vague) reason why. > 2 - Say what you mean to say. > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > Actually, the address probably didn't have any errors. It was probably > some sort of anti-spam in play. If the comment on the last two lines was generated by some mail server, it looks like some message configured at that site. Again, this is site-specific configuration. You could ask them to clear it up ;) Just know that the mail failed with a permanent error like a 550. > 3 - Use complete sentences. Please include a subject and verb PLUS the > reason why there is an error. "server.foo.com rejected server.bar.com > for reason." "There is no mailbox suchandsuch at server.foo.com." Mail delivery fails in far too many different ways to have a real, descriptive and correct message for all of them. Lots of different software all speaking SMTP and spewing forth lots of messages that aren't defined by any standards. I think a good first step for you in your crusade is to get Microsoft to improve the messages that Exchange spews out -- those are especially unhelpful. > (now I must wonder what sort of default sillyness my server spews to > everyone else when every variety of spam malfeasance reflects of my MX) > > I used to think that running my own MX was neat. Now I am starting to > think that this is the realm of wizards. Can mere mortals use the > internet without ceaselessly battling with asshats? The fight is all > gone out of me. I think that is the feeling of a growing number of mail admins. It's a wonder it's all still working as well as it is out there. Marcus From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 1 03:46:33 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6760216A46B for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2007 03:46:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com (mu-out-0910.google.com [209.85.134.187]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31D513C491 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2007 03:46:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i10so288645mue for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.95.20 with SMTP id s20mr59006fgb.1193882540942; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.123.1? ( [78.92.53.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v23sm2208966fkd.2007.10.31.19.02.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <472933A2.1080407@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 03:02:10 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.8) Gecko/20071009 MultiZilla/1.8.3.3a SeaMonkey/1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <47282067.8070706@highperformance.net> In-Reply-To: <47282067.8070706@highperformance.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Mailer Error Messages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 03:46:33 -0000 Jason C. Wells wrote: > This is just a short little complaint. Could we please make mail > exchange error messages just a little more understandable? For the rare > occurrences where I actually get a legit non-spam induced bounce it > would be nice to be able to quickly discern what happened. > > 1 - Don't use pronouns. "This domain is is blacklisted." Oh I see it > was "THIS" domain that was blacklisted. That clears things up. Contact > the postmaster? Oh I see "THE" postmaster. > > 2 - Say what you mean to say. ----- The following addresses had > permanent fatal errors ----- > > Actually, the address probably didn't have any errors. It was probably > some sort of anti-spam in play. > > 3 - Use complete sentences. Please include a subject and verb PLUS the > reason why there is an error. "server.foo.com rejected server.bar.com > for reason." "There is no mailbox suchandsuch at server.foo.com." > > (now I must wonder what sort of default sillyness my server spews to > everyone else when every variety of spam malfeasance reflects of my MX) > > I used to think that running my own MX was neat. Now I am starting to > think that this is the realm of wizards. Can mere mortals use the > internet without ceaselessly battling with asshats? The fight is all > gone out of me. > > Later, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I haven't had a chance to taste such messages in full color. Could you send us your collection of the most annoying bot replies? :)