From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 00:57:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1424C16A418 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:57:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B8C13C4B0 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:57:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 566 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2007 00:30:50 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 Nov 2007 00:30:50 -0000 Message-ID: <4738EFE1.3090901@chuckr.org> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:29:21 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Marella References: <20071111195501.46d58539@p4> <200711120704.lAC744lR082341@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th> <20071112230920.17bac37c@attila> <18232.48642.463639.901784@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20071112113639.14d0f5a2@p4> In-Reply-To: <20071112113639.14d0f5a2@p4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Olivier Nicole , Robert Huff , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:57:39 -0000 Robert Marella wrote: > On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:56:34 -0500 > Robert Huff wrote: > >> The problem I have always had with this is computer use does >> not exist in a vacuum; it changes, and is changed by, the society in >> which it happens. >> If I look at the countries of the "first world", I see places >> that have walked the path from the written word to the telegraph to >> the telephone to the computer. At each step they've tested the new >> technology, learning what it can and cannot do, discovering stuff >> the inventors never even imagined, discarding ideas that are >> techically problematic or culturally unpalatable, and adapting to it >> as it adapted to them. >> Now consider dropping 100,000 OLPC on a country where the >> (median and mode) hardware layer is paper and ink, the government - >> often autocratic and kleptocratic - cannot manage to install and run >> a 1950's era phone system, and religious leaders fulminate against >> imunization as a "foreign plot". Even under the best of >> circumstaces exactly what do people reasoaly expect to happen? >> >> > In my opinion you underestimate the abilities of people. There is no > need for the people of the third world countries to "evolve" as we did. > One only needs to look at the progress made in China over the last few > decades. People who never had a telephone, facsimile, radio or in some > cases even books are now using cell phones, computers and televisions. > > China is becoming more capitalistic, if not democratic, not because the > government wants it to but because it has to. The people are more > knowledgeable about the rest of the world because of the new ways of > communication. > > If only one percent of the 100,000 laptops in your above example were > to fall into hands of some child who is awakened to a new world then > that is 1,000 children who will grow up and help change that country. > > As someone else stated, "It's my money". I have completed the "give > one, get one" order form. I hope my laptop is sent to a worthy child > but if not so be it. I have not decided what to do with the one that I > receive. My grand daughter is only 3 and I think that is a little to > young. I will probably give the laptop to one of my great nieces. Perfectly correct, but in terms of getting the most results from your dollar, using this way is tantamount to purning your cash. Just because you might get some vanishlingly small return from your money is simply no reson to waste your money like that. No when better options exist. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 14:21:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3323816A41B for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:21:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xfb52@dial.pipex.com) Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC18813C4C8 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:21:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xfb52@dial.pipex.com) Received: from [192.168.23.2] (62-31-10-181.cable.ubr05.edin.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.10.181]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D13E0003A9; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:19:31 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <4739A462.2090205@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:19:30 +0000 From: Alex Zbyslaw User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-GB; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20061205 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Kinsey References: <0JR7007833LW9A50@VL-MH-MR001.ip.videotron.ca> <473492E7.9050005@cs.okstate.edu> <4734A6B9.1080102@dial.pipex.com> <4734E31C.1000000@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <4734E31C.1000000@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: install X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:21:24 -0000 Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Alex Zbyslaw wrote: > >> >> I'm strongly in favour of 3.5 finely sliced (but not diced) penguins >> and a relative angle of 23 degrees, but I don't expect many people to >> agree :-) >> > > No, you mean 22.5 {which is halfway to 45}, and BLUE, @#$%#$! I most certainly do NOT meant 22.5. Whoever heard of such a ridiculous thing?! 23 is the scared number of Eris and the only possible angle that would work. Honestly, half way to 45, what kind of argument is that?! And Blue? BLUE?!?!?!?!?!? Everyone knows sliced penguins HAVE TO BE GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAVEN@T YOU EVEN READ THE SOURCE CODE???????? Off to take my medicine now, :-) --Alex From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 15:19:58 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18DB16A41A for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:19:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from usleepless@gmail.com) Received: from rn-out-0102.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB39613C4A7 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:19:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from usleepless@gmail.com) Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s42so805770rnb for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:19:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=4ok0DOwtN/qvcROHmQJAMlexLwTsOLL3gkCEPT2bcoc=; b=GsgyT7T6CQwq2rxA03Pj0rV7FKE5hB1LmWI1yUZJakqp4ZO7Crw2jpNZvpiejH1Zk9lJqDWMWcVEIntYrimzPViy1jh2Kv3ejopxEpLnAjobE8cqhpLvaiuGgvqIUbQXmS/NiLokOr4firqlsY35Vj/Rho7FLVdCmwwukkLvMec= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WierC37v71qjBNT+aRo6yxcWQHzzsAZzFeWiQfQaAzyL3rjN4wzLgUsK3Qgy4zFOa8rLWIUHbR8EVEZDrUh0SDC7hW3lLKu7OOgJkFm07NmosE47JVj0NP9p/5+u/GilMSqyao7jDFd/SyU5L1J9KTe2BVjcxrpJTwG2csuE2Ts= Received: by 10.142.229.4 with SMTP id b4mr1744835wfh.1194965739714; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.178.14 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:55:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:55:39 +0100 From: usleepless@gmail.com To: Rob In-Reply-To: <4739AC34.4060806@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20071111195501.46d58539@p4> <4739AC34.4060806@gmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:19:59 -0000 On Nov 13, 2007 2:52 PM, Rob wrote: > > I am usually not the one to bring up these things but I feel very > > strongly about this. Starting Monday, November 12 this website is > > offering a give one get one deal. I believe the money will be well > > invested. YMMV > > http://xogiving.org/ > > I have to agree with many posters, this project is the most seriously > misdirected, biggest crock of shit I've heard of in years. > > We're talkin' people in 3rd world conditions, without basic essentials > of life, and some idiot wants to give them COMPUTERS?!?!? WFT? Where > are they gonna get electricity to charge them, instruction in use, > repair, software updates, etc. And they don't have toilet paper, so all > the keys on the left half are gonna go bad! when the F! is this going to end? all that is happening here is an exchange of stereotype opinions about the matter. nothing new, nothing original, nothing is going to come out of this, all this has been discussed already on numerous sites ( slashdot, digg, wherever ). your opinion is useless to freebsd-questions. please go annoy your relatives and friends. furthermore, you are extremely short sighted. are you aware rice was dumped in some African countries which ruined their local rice farmers? ever heard of "learned helplessness"? ever considered that not all children in 3rd world countries starve to death? if anyone wants to ramble on, please do so on the chat list. or bugger of to digg. pardon my french, usleep PS: you should be ashamed of yourself regarding your statement about the toilet paper. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 15:39:22 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85F616A41B for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:39:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from usleepless@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A65213C4B2 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:39:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from usleepless@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so1311069rvb for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:39:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=ITNa3wYsDmxlsqTJs9R8aYyhcX0aUAhQP25HLkbu+xU=; b=ey0zZFbVS2xubYqpOYUlUSTR5a74M35d7sWsj1aeTBaSS7LquDhLvNMuXi71nnHRTVpoINI61boJpkVl9Aa/896G7gNMPFm3n02fwA85I3r6eiM5LiYkjNckUxOHWCoUMDx+4hvk8sGXNvXVXefVqQqAhI2xBYfPFPIidRb+wiI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=HIumHODBMSBkaWbltDAuWRxPMcTtr0cS5hfkLp3Iaq6ud/LP2N99E7hj/Lr1c6yovuwrE5MTZp+rRwFf5k9iRVKAIndf18N3FR0yUxcbal94x4U9xw+iV5RVNMnoVcFpGXiUJBJsOnS37A9hmvr+KVDA1SA8up1eUnhaosZllAQ= Received: by 10.140.200.16 with SMTP id x16mr2883318rvf.1194968341965; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.149.20 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:39:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:39:01 +0100 From: usleepless@gmail.com To: "Bart Silverstrim" In-Reply-To: <4739C342.5080406@chrononomicon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20071111195501.46d58539@p4> <4739AC34.4060806@gmail.com> <4739C342.5080406@chrononomicon.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:39:22 -0000 On Nov 13, 2007 4:31 PM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > > usleepless@gmail.com wrote: > > On Nov 13, 2007 2:52 PM, Rob wrote: > >>> I am usually not the one to bring up these things but I feel very > >>> strongly about this. Starting Monday, November 12 this website is > >>> offering a give one get one deal. I believe the money will be well > >>> invested. YMMV > >>> http://xogiving.org/ > >> I have to agree with many posters, this project is the most seriously > >> misdirected, biggest crock of shit I've heard of in years. > >> > >> We're talkin' people in 3rd world conditions, without basic essentials > >> of life, and some idiot wants to give them COMPUTERS?!?!? WFT? Where > >> are they gonna get electricity to charge them, instruction in use, > >> repair, software updates, etc. And they don't have toilet paper, so all > >> the keys on the left half are gonna go bad! > > > > when the F! is this going to end? > > > > all that is happening here is an exchange of stereotype opinions about > > the matter. nothing new, nothing original, nothing is going to come > > out of this, all this has been discussed already on numerous sites ( > > slashdot, digg, wherever ). > > > > your opinion is useless to freebsd-questions. please go annoy your > > relatives and friends. > > > > furthermore, you are extremely short sighted. are you aware rice was > > dumped in some African countries which ruined their local rice > > farmers? ever heard of "learned helplessness"? ever considered that > > not all children in 3rd world countries starve to death? > > > > if anyone wants to ramble on, please do so on the chat list. or bugger > > of to digg. > > You're aware that by offering your opinion while chastising people for > doing likewise, you're contributing to the topic you're chastising, right? Sir, I refrained from offering my opinion on the matter at hand. I'll gladly admit I have offered my opinion about where to shove all these opinions. If you catch my drift. regards, usleep From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 15:46:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D75216A420 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:46:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsilver@chrononomicon.com) Received: from trans-warp.net (hyperion.trans-warp.net [216.37.208.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61B713C4A6 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:46:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsilver@chrononomicon.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unverified [65.193.73.208]) by trans-warp.net (SurgeMail 3.8f2) with ESMTP id 142752732-1860479 for multiple; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:31:12 -0500 Message-ID: <4739C342.5080406@chrononomicon.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:31:14 -0500 From: Bart Silverstrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usleepless@gmail.com References: <20071111195501.46d58539@p4> <4739AC34.4060806@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: bsilver@chrononomicon.com Cc: Rob , FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:46:51 -0000 usleepless@gmail.com wrote: > On Nov 13, 2007 2:52 PM, Rob wrote: >>> I am usually not the one to bring up these things but I feel very >>> strongly about this. Starting Monday, November 12 this website is >>> offering a give one get one deal. I believe the money will be well >>> invested. YMMV >>> http://xogiving.org/ >> I have to agree with many posters, this project is the most seriously >> misdirected, biggest crock of shit I've heard of in years. >> >> We're talkin' people in 3rd world conditions, without basic essentials >> of life, and some idiot wants to give them COMPUTERS?!?!? WFT? Where >> are they gonna get electricity to charge them, instruction in use, >> repair, software updates, etc. And they don't have toilet paper, so all >> the keys on the left half are gonna go bad! > > when the F! is this going to end? > > all that is happening here is an exchange of stereotype opinions about > the matter. nothing new, nothing original, nothing is going to come > out of this, all this has been discussed already on numerous sites ( > slashdot, digg, wherever ). > > your opinion is useless to freebsd-questions. please go annoy your > relatives and friends. > > furthermore, you are extremely short sighted. are you aware rice was > dumped in some African countries which ruined their local rice > farmers? ever heard of "learned helplessness"? ever considered that > not all children in 3rd world countries starve to death? > > if anyone wants to ramble on, please do so on the chat list. or bugger > of to digg. You're aware that by offering your opinion while chastising people for doing likewise, you're contributing to the topic you're chastising, right? ;-) -Bart From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 21:42:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1C316A419; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:42:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout1.cac.washington.edu (mxout1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0000813C442; Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:42:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) by mxout1.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lADLgbr1028752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:42:38 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from dzihan.cs.washington.edu (dzihan.cs.washington.edu [128.208.4.96]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lADLgaga015587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:42:37 -0800 Message-ID: <473A1A4C.1080407@u.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:42:36 -0800 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071003) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: usleepless@gmail.com References: <20071111195501.46d58539@p4> <4739AC34.4060806@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.3.310218, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2007.11.13.132249 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CP_NAME_BODY 0, __CP_NAME_SUBJ 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __PHISH_PHRASE11 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: Rob , FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:42:39 -0000 usleepless@gmail.com wrote: > On Nov 13, 2007 2:52 PM, Rob wrote: > >>> I am usually not the one to bring up these things but I feel very >>> strongly about this. Starting Monday, November 12 this website is >>> offering a give one get one deal. I believe the money will be well >>> invested. YMMV >>> http://xogiving.org/ >>> >> I have to agree with many posters, this project is the most seriously >> misdirected, biggest crock of shit I've heard of in years. >> >> We're talkin' people in 3rd world conditions, without basic essentials >> of life, and some idiot wants to give them COMPUTERS?!?!? WFT? Where >> are they gonna get electricity to charge them, instruction in use, >> repair, software updates, etc. And they don't have toilet paper, so all >> the keys on the left half are gonna go bad! >> > > when the F! is this going to end? > > all that is happening here is an exchange of stereotype opinions about > the matter. nothing new, nothing original, nothing is going to come > out of this, all this has been discussed already on numerous sites ( > slashdot, digg, wherever ). > > your opinion is useless to freebsd-questions. please go annoy your > relatives and friends. > > furthermore, you are extremely short sighted. are you aware rice was > dumped in some African countries which ruined their local rice > farmers? ever heard of "learned helplessness"? ever considered that > not all children in 3rd world countries starve to death? > > if anyone wants to ramble on, please do so on the chat list. or bugger > of to digg. > > pardon my french, > > usleep > > PS: you should be ashamed of yourself regarding your statement about > the toilet paper. > Again, please act like adults and stop this bikeshed on this list, as there are many people subscribed to it. End of discussion. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 06:10:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29FBB16A41A for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:10:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CA213C459 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so719357nfb for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:10:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HsYtoH8+Xn69Hcy8yo2340DobQ15+82JUwaI3Tp/tjE=; b=W6eIemDv3nov4SxUMgpVyBEG7UltpnZBBejpHTC0viniAsqZdXdNTR2XlfRvnzlkS5GogXgYBhcW1CreFgsmc9+zyIfo4U7DHFitKX8ss5xYYSxkLM/ezDULUuiYb/gCxYw5Ybp6iwgmCqAbSOEGqqKkfOoBXlb3g2YOTY9sUhM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=e8n9qTRZO4mOeA1z9GP/sp5kGXoQa6fdWNN7Th2mVvy3QAONnW7QX/5IhScIn5ugU191Ha5ny/va/YRcOtYwYHHS4yzM9l1u4OtFxCRHJZdrym/Do6F0dlN43NFQeKEbMM+cAPcVyNbzECkYkrzjWrLc1P4QVR9aBH9emHb59Fw= Received: by 10.86.54.3 with SMTP id c3mr1422983fga.1195193433440; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.123.1? ( [84.0.108.178]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l19sm2573040fgb.2007.11.15.22.10.32 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:10:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <473D344C.1080805@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:10:20 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.8) Gecko/20071009 SeaMonkey/1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: C out-of-bound pointer question X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:10:43 -0000 int x[N]; Values in x[] are (rand()%10)+268435410, aka 268435410..268435419. The algorith counts each individual value. // v1.0 uses if( x[n] == ___ )'s // v2.0: int k[268435420] = {0}; // k uses almost 1GB of memory for (n = 0; n < N; n++) { k[ x[n] ]++; } // v2.1: int k[10] = {0}; int* p = k-268435410; for (n = 0; n < N; n++) { p[ x[n] ]++; } The values in x[] are guaranteed, so k[ x[n]-268435410 ] are k[0] to k[9], but is *((k-268435410)+26843541_) safe? (as long as I do no dereference such out-of-bound memory region) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 06:46:10 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6559116A418 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:46:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: from hu-out-0506.google.com (hu-out-0506.google.com [72.14.214.233]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9A513C465 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:46:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simias.n@gmail.com) Received: by hu-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 28so275844hub for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:46:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=ayRrs1I2zwsD1DQNG2ko+9Y00+OaPA44BXf/34iwbdE=; b=rZXw5J/2/SrfVoLb22ycbkQgR/A6iHbjh/c1dZtozOA2ajxwAVOso0i6JR+dSylhNYF3p7BwteMfD2nkoYyddqh2an/hxtDOJwFzEDPbvsQ+zdIDBCM8zwFt3fqNR04y//7AxS9R4dK+Rf2bRbCBCE5FF/nTM50W3oPXe0VbXfg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=B/bQK5XeVgbI5rgX4NLhdB4Xl7URYKgCfZDJVUvfG9xvQyfFOY43yNJ3MeWwo51/6QmwxvtNewuREuxDy41soXl0ufVSKbp4CVqgboJiHI80mvoyO559U4EhRRl+CYt7UOixu3L6WNlOPlCssLP3ALWIUB52cCUE5Jq1mK3Xng0= Received: by 10.82.177.3 with SMTP id z3mr4253931bue.1195194684366; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from simias.hd.free.fr ( [82.243.51.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d23sm3914321nfh.2007.11.15.22.31.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Simias To: deeptech71@gmail.com References: <473D344C.1080805@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:31:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <473D344C.1080805@gmail.com> (deeptech's message of "Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:10:20 +0100") Message-ID: <864pfmvh05.fsf@simias.hd.free.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C out-of-bound pointer question X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:46:10 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com writes: > int x[N]; > > Values in x[] are (rand()%10)+268435410, aka 268435410..268435419. > The algorith counts each individual value. > > // v1.0 uses if( x[n] == ___ )'s > > // v2.0: > int k[268435420] = {0}; // k uses almost 1GB of memory > for (n = 0; n < N; n++) { > k[ x[n] ]++; > } > > // v2.1: > int k[10] = {0}; > int* p = k-268435410; > for (n = 0; n < N; n++) { > p[ x[n] ]++; > } > > The values in x[] are guaranteed, so k[ x[n]-268435410 ] are k[0] to > k[9], but is *((k-268435410)+26843541_) safe? (as long as I do no > dereference such out-of-bound memory region) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I don't really understand the problem, *((k-268435410)+26843541x) <=> *(k + x) <=> k[x], so as long as x belongs to [0; 10[ there's no out of bound issue. However, note that in "int* p = k-268435410;", if the address of k is inferior to 268435410, p will old a negative address. This won't be a problem in x86 and most other architectures I'm aware of, but I'm not sure this behaviour is defined by the C standard. (also, I'd use macros, like #define WHATEVER 268435410, it'll make the code way more readable) -- Simias From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 07:56:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7A816A417 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:56:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2001:1b20:1:3::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1133213C45D for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAG7uGox017137; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:56:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lAG7uGA1017136; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:56:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:56:16 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200711160756.lAG7uGA1017136@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <473D344C.1080805@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:56:22 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: C out-of-bound pointer question X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:56:24 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > int x[N]; > > Values in x[] are (rand()%10)+268435410, aka 268435410..268435419. > The algorith counts each individual value. > > // v1.0 uses if( x[n] == ___ )'s > > // v2.0: > int k[268435420] = {0}; // k uses almost 1GB of memory > for (n = 0; n < N; n++) { > k[ x[n] ]++; > } > > // v2.1: > int k[10] = {0}; > int* p = k-268435410; > for (n = 0; n < N; n++) { > p[ x[n] ]++; > } > > The values in x[] are guaranteed, so k[ x[n]-268435410 ] are k[0] to > k[9], but is *((k-268435410)+26843541_) safe? (as long as I do no > dereference such out-of-bound memory region) In theory, v2.1 should work if the range of the interval is really guaranteed (you could use assert() to be sure). The C standard allows such index calculations, which -- in the end -- is just pointer arithmetics. However, personally I would use v2.0 because it is easier to read, and it looks less "dangerous", and it might even be a little more efficient. It is true that the k[] array in v2.0 uses 1 GB of mapped memory, *BUT* it does not use 1 GB of RAM. It only uses one page of physical RAM. Remember that RAM is allocated dynamically when it is accessed for the first time, so if you never access k[0..268435409], then no RAM will be allocated for it. Of course, you should make sure that it is a local variable (or a malloc()ed one) that is not initialized, or otherwise the initialization will cause RAM to be allocated. Make sure you initialize only the indices that you need. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead." -- RFC 1925 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 14:02:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF45D16A421 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:02:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7328D13C457 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:02:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810322085; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:47:26 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.1/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728462083; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:47:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 559AE844A3; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:47:26 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200711160756.lAG7uGA1017136@lurza.secnetix.de> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:47:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200711160756.lAG7uGA1017136@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Fri\, 16 Nov 2007 08\:56\:16 +0100 \(CET\)") Message-ID: <861waql2tt.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: Re: C out-of-bound pointer question X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:02:48 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > It is true that the k[] array in v2.0 uses 1 GB of mapped memory, > *BUT* it does not use 1 GB of RAM. It only uses one page of physical > RAM. Remember that RAM is allocated dynamically when it is accessed > for the first time, so if you never access k[0..268435409], then no > RAM will be allocated for it. Of course, you should make sure that it > is a local variable (or a malloc()ed one) that is not initialized, or > otherwise the initialization will cause RAM to be allocated. Make > sure you initialize only the indices that you need. It can't be a local variable; it's larger than the stack. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 19:13:19 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4810716A417 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:13:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2082D13C481 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:13:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-170-114-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.170.114.32] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1It6LO-0001QF-1k for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:55:10 -0500 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 15657-1195239306; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:55:07 -0600 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:55:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: loader and "Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:13:19 -0000 Trying to boot PC-BSD 1.4.1 and I get: CD Loader 1.2 Building the boot loader arguments Looking up /BOOT/LOADER... Found Read error: 0x10 Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor I find this discussed a lot, but haven't found a solution yet. My BIOS is K7VM2 for ASRock http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=K7VM2 I started with version P1.30 and now I updated to 1.90 (dated 9/5/2003). (I have no floppy. So I downloaded freedos ISO image, mounted it, copied it, added the flash utility and new flash, made new iso and burned it. It booted fine and I could update flash fine. My BIOS indicated it was new.) But I continue to get the "Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor" error. I have tried with two different CD drives. Any ideas on how to solve this? Or is it just not possible to boot with my BIOS? What about using a different boot manager? And then have it boot the CD? Any suggestions on that? Jeremy C. Reed p.s. I may just try to boot it over the network... but I got to setup my boot server for that. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 23:39:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADB216A417; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout7.cac.washington.edu (mxout7.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AF13C4C4; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) by mxout7.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lAGNd0ZC017060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from dzihan.cs.washington.edu (dzihan.cs.washington.edu [128.208.4.96]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lAGNcx2l026545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:38:59 -0800 Message-ID: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:38:59 -0800 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071003) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kip Macy References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.3.310218, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2007.11.16.151709 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='ECARD_WORD 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: Yuri , Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:01 -0000 Kip Macy wrote: > On Nov 16, 2007 2:16 PM, Remko Lodder wrote: > >> Yuri wrote: >> >>> I read long time ago that the reason that NVidia can't have their driver on >>> 64-bit platform is that FreeBSD kernel lacks some functionality. >>> >>> Is this functionality present in 7.0? Or when to expect this to be done? >>> >>> I have NVidia card but still run 32-bit system because of lack of driver. >>> >>> Yuri >>> >> Hello, >> >> This discussion gets over and over again actually, no the required >> support is not yet there. There is a wiki page which denotes what >> is required to get this going. >> >> http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests >> >> If you desperately need this, then consider funding someone >> (this has popped up before, it's interesting to arrange something >> like this because you need a trustable intermediating party that >> can arrange this, the FreeBSD Foundation is currently not able >> to do so as far as I can recall); who will do the work for you >> or do it yourself. >> >> There is currently no other way to get the support you want. >> >> Thanks, >> remko >> >> > > Remko - relax :) > > The wiki isn't really an obvious place for people to look. If we don't > already we should have a page on "popular hardware with support > issues". > > -Kip > Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should use a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@, amongst other lists I'm sure.. Thanks, -Garrett PS Please CC me if replying on chat@, as I'm not subscribed to that list. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 23:54:25 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678EE16A417 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:54:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF79F13C447 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:54:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1It8qI-0002WG-U6 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:15 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAGLZDp4007105 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:14 GMT Received: (qmail 38826 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Nov 2007 21:35:08 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:08 +0000 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Message-ID: <20071116213508.GA38799@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:35:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: loader and "Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:54:25 -0000 On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 12:55:06PM -0600, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > Trying to boot PC-BSD 1.4.1 and I get: > > CD Loader 1.2 > Building the boot loader arguments > Looking up /BOOT/LOADER... Found > Read error: 0x10 > Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor > > I find this discussed a lot, but haven't found a solution yet. > > My BIOS is K7VM2 for ASRock > http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=K7VM2 > > I started with version P1.30 and now I updated to 1.90 (dated 9/5/2003). > > (I have no floppy. So I downloaded freedos ISO image, mounted it, copied > it, added the flash utility and new flash, made new iso and burned it. It > booted fine and I could update flash fine. My BIOS indicated it was new.) > > But I continue to get the "Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor" > error. > > I have tried with two different CD drives. > > Any ideas on how to solve this? Or is it just not possible to boot with my > BIOS? > > What about using a different boot manager? And then have it boot the CD? > Any suggestions on that? You could try making a CD with grub and try to boot that. You'll need to know which partition/slice your root partition is on and you'll obviously need a spare machine to build your boot CD on. Instructions (I had to do it a few weeks back): http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/grub_setup.html > > Jeremy C. Reed > > p.s. I may just try to boot it over the network... but I got to setup my > boot server for that. Grub should be easier as long as your BIOS can boot CDs. -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 00:08:54 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E0E16A469 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:08:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@kash.tomsk.ru) Received: from mx.kash.tomsk.ru (ns2.kash.tomsk.ru [88.204.35.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFF513C467 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:08:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@kash.tomsk.ru) Received: by mx.kash.tomsk.ru (Postfix, from userid 0) id 2A95CDAE43; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 05:40:27 +0600 (NOVT) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by mx.kash.tomsk.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF49DACE0 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 05:40:25 +0600 (NOVT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E71BC516; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700F616A500; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADB216A417; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout7.cac.washington.edu (mxout7.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57AF13C4C4; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) by mxout7.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lAGNd0ZC017060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:39:00 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from dzihan.cs.washington.edu (dzihan.cs.washington.edu [128.208.4.96]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lAGNcx2l026545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:38:59 -0800 Message-ID: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:38:59 -0800 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071003) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kip Macy References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.3.310218, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2007.11.16.151709 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='ECARD_WORD 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Sat Nov 17 05:40:27 2007 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9986 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-DSPAM-Signature: 473e2a6b191321377810173 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, Sender*owner+freebsd, 0.00074, Sender*freebsd, 0.00074, List-Post*freebsd, 0.00074, List-Post*, Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:08:54 -0000 Kip Macy wrote: > On Nov 16, 2007 2:16 PM, Remko Lodder wrote: > >> Yuri wrote: >> >>> I read long time ago that the reason that NVidia can't have their driver on >>> 64-bit platform is that FreeBSD kernel lacks some functionality. >>> >>> Is this functionality present in 7.0? Or when to expect this to be done? >>> >>> I have NVidia card but still run 32-bit system because of lack of driver. >>> >>> Yuri >>> >> Hello, >> >> This discussion gets over and over again actually, no the required >> support is not yet there. There is a wiki page which denotes what >> is required to get this going. >> >> http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests >> >> If you desperately need this, then consider funding someone >> (this has popped up before, it's interesting to arrange something >> like this because you need a trustable intermediating party that >> can arrange this, the FreeBSD Foundation is currently not able >> to do so as far as I can recall); who will do the work for you >> or do it yourself. >> >> There is currently no other way to get the support you want. >> >> Thanks, >> remko >> >> > > Remko - relax :) > > The wiki isn't really an obvious place for people to look. If we don't > already we should have a page on "popular hardware with support > issues". > > -Kip > Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should use a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@, amongst other lists I'm sure.. Thanks, -Garrett PS Please CC me if replying on chat@, as I'm not subscribed to that list. _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 01:16:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633ED16A47F; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:16:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@kash.tomsk.ru) Received: from mx.kash.tomsk.ru (ns2.kash.tomsk.ru [88.204.35.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8678613C442; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:16:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@kash.tomsk.ru) Received: by mx.kash.tomsk.ru (Postfix, from userid 0) id CE041DAD08; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:16:33 +0600 (NOVT) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by mx.kash.tomsk.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77948DACCD for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:16:32 +0600 (NOVT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA1CBBAE0E; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:15:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFE416A4C1; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:15:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5E316A418 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:10:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (mail0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513DA13C469 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:10:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAH1ARdq018604; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id lAH1AR2q018603; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail0.rawbw.com: www set sender to yuri@rawbw.com using -f Received: from ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.224]) by webmail.rawbw.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1195261826.473e3f82d7e51@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:26 -0800 From: Yuri To: Garrett Cooper References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 24.219.144.224 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:15:36 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Sat Nov 17 07:16:33 2007 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9987 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-DSPAM-Signature: 473e40f1191328920215351 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, List-Post*, Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:16:43 -0000 >=20 > Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so= =20 > this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should us= e=20 > a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem=20 > extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@,=20 > amongst other lists I'm sure.. > Thanks, > -Garrett Add the printout to nvidia-driver port telling the address of this Wiki-p= age. All people who use NVidia have to go there to update the driver so they w= ill see the URL. Yuri _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 01:25:03 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069AF16A41B; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:25:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@kash.tomsk.ru) Received: from mx.kash.tomsk.ru (ns2.kash.tomsk.ru [88.204.35.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBFA913C4BE; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:25:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@kash.tomsk.ru) Received: by mx.kash.tomsk.ru (Postfix, from userid 0) id 9E4B8DAD08; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:24:59 +0600 (NOVT) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by mx.kash.tomsk.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44712DACCD for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:24:58 +0600 (NOVT) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6302DBAF94; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:24:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416DA16A4A6; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:24:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org) Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04DD16A46B for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:17:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (mail0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AF513C478 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:17:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAH1H0t4021537; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id lAH1H087021536; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail0.rawbw.com: www set sender to yuri@rawbw.com using -f Received: from ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.224]) by webmail.rawbw.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1195262220.473e410c624a6@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 From: Yuri To: Garrett Cooper References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 24.219.144.224 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:24:23 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Sat Nov 17 07:24:59 2007 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9987 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-DSPAM-Signature: 473e42eb191321576187233 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, Sender*owner+freebsd, 0.00074, Sender*freebsd, 0.00074, List-Post*freebsd, 0.00074, List-Post*, Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:25:03 -0000 > Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so= =20 > this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should us= e=20 > a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem=20 > extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@,=20 > amongst other lists I'm sure.. > Thanks, > -Garrett >=20 > PS Please CC me if replying on chat@, as I'm not subscribed to that lis= t. BTW googling "nvidia freebsd driver amd64" doesn't show this Wiki-page on= the first 3 google-pages. This means that it's not named properly. 'Feature requests' isn't what mo= st people would search for. Yuri _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 01:38:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69BAF16A417; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (mail0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D8513C44B; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAH1ARdq018604; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id lAH1AR2q018603; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail0.rawbw.com: www set sender to yuri@rawbw.com using -f Received: from ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.224]) by webmail.rawbw.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1195261826.473e3f82d7e51@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:10:26 -0800 From: Yuri To: Garrett Cooper References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 24.219.144.224 Cc: Kip Macy , Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:38:44 -0000 > > Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so > this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should use > a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem > extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@, > amongst other lists I'm sure.. > Thanks, > -Garrett Add the printout to nvidia-driver port telling the address of this Wiki-page. All people who use NVidia have to go there to update the driver so they will see the URL. Yuri From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 01:38:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB4A16A41A; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (mail0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6F213C457; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail0.rawbw.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAH1H0t4021537; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by mail0.rawbw.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id lAH1H087021536; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: mail0.rawbw.com: www set sender to yuri@rawbw.com using -f Received: from ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip224.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.224]) by webmail.rawbw.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1195262220.473e410c624a6@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:17:00 -0800 From: Yuri To: Garrett Cooper References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 24.219.144.224 Cc: Kip Macy , Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:38:44 -0000 > Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so > this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should use > a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem > extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@, > amongst other lists I'm sure.. > Thanks, > -Garrett > > PS Please CC me if replying on chat@, as I'm not subscribed to that list. BTW googling "nvidia freebsd driver amd64" doesn't show this Wiki-page on the first 3 google-pages. This means that it's not named properly. 'Feature requests' isn't what most people would search for. Yuri From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 03:50:36 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6387B16A419 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 03:50:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unga888@yahoo.com) Received: from web57012.mail.re3.yahoo.com (web57012.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.97.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 130AC13C45A for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 03:50:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unga888@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37802 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2007 03:23:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=rCbT/MagAdGIcVua9YYxGZoKqjQ7ULzqF2UMo3OFogVEKte0fxZPGUWhlDfYFfUBTR7BF+bxxj9j1QO9NSy1Fj3wJfKwiGmnhB6Iz3I2eWSK+MF2LScBU+iKT9JXjqCp8VFIG8XIEgZHZOBjJmGj/3gdKHzd7UTL2Nr8g7IT998=; X-YMail-OSG: diF6OIkVM1lwKbANPPoi0Ol9ZGbuiVjvX2rkMSd4oAtN_VZpOUgqGaWEf5qVBcvVuH7r6kLYbnOBPGInjTEw5dggQSAETd5KVM1WBneA_SfYb4H8vFPKiAuatbcPPunLl_DquoxHbQkb38k- Received: from [165.21.154.12] by web57012.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:23:54 PST Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: Unga To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <702648.37781.qm@web57012.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 03:50:36 -0000 > >> Hello, > >> > >> This discussion gets over and over again > actually, no the required > >> support is not yet there. There is a wiki page > which denotes what > >> is required to get this going. > >> > >> http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests > >> > >> If you desperately need this, then consider > funding someone > >> (this has popped up before, it's interesting to > arrange something > >> like this because you need a trustable > intermediating party that > >> can arrange this, the FreeBSD Foundation is > currently not able > >> to do so as far as I can recall); who will do the > work for you > >> or do it yourself. > >> > >> There is currently no other way to get the > support you want. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> remko I wonder why Nvidia does not want to fund to get these features (http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests) implemented in FreeBSD? Its Nvidia financially benefit out of this driver, isn't it? not anybody else, Nvidia is not poor company. Hope Nvidia can easily afford to pay USD5000/- per feature (like Google Summer of codes) to get them implemented. Isn't that worth or too expensive to Nvidia? Already Nvidia is accused of violating GPL for implementing a closed source driver for Linux. How much will cost to Nvidia if somebody challenge the legality of the Linux driver? If Nvidia is not aware of that they financially benefit and the probable legal cost for violating GPL, isn't that the freebsdfoundation should make them aware of these issues and attract them to fund. Regards Unga ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 04:59:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A2B16A418 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:59:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D0D13C461 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:59:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so4793861pyb for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:59:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=ZDAS2cm6XVGYfVqDBo+R5CjhoI/vYc5JcPFNpMACpV4=; b=a/EkTp9Th6hRDUwF972o5FosFQFdY1YfAGYNsHxzpSv2AJU5CDFDRZHkJP0PdR4+1Z2tL0U80EXFgUIRrWCfcjwdk8N1CPoYExm8edDW+ElxA9+WioUaY2+VIo6oMaNfq9cPA5wWzzbjOm2RMKBAJ3gD9IErQ+Gmk6pqNBfez8g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ksYaTtb3dSaslStR9a/RLUSzUMysD4WtSkwan22i0+1PPZQUv9dPt/f3qAB04vBW+r0lw2EIvVP8+dzR/ClVlUDHXBGcALoA4i0bNuO2wk5gzZoGq+1BwUS/02D7p5zx/F5fbE314tNUHUdZcfEHJ2R52SToGnuZ8eyxJ3nhU14= Received: by 10.65.103.14 with SMTP id f14mr5834680qbm.1195273929131; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.105.5 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:32:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:32:09 -0500 From: "Aryeh Friedman" To: Unga In-Reply-To: <702648.37781.qm@web57012.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> <702648.37781.qm@web57012.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:59:49 -0000 > Nvidia is not poor company. Hope Nvidia can easily > afford to pay USD5000/- per feature (like Google > Summer of codes) to get them implemented. Isn't that > worth or too expensive to Nvidia? Already Nvidia is > accused of violating GPL for implementing a closed > source driver for Linux. How much will cost to Nvidia > if somebody challenge the legality of the Linux > driver? One really has to wonder because for example I offered to do the whole thing for $1000 (only payable on delivery of completely tested and integrated kernel features in the mainstream 8-current kernel)... I never heard back from them.... to me this a no brainier since it completely risk free for them (if I don't deliver it costs them nothing) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 20:17:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65AC16A4A9; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E0C13C46A; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92571A3C1A; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:00:15 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:31:24 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200711171231.25393.jhb@freebsd.org> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: loader and "Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:17:00 -0000 On Friday 16 November 2007 01:55:06 pm Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Trying to boot PC-BSD 1.4.1 and I get: >=20 > CD Loader 1.2 > Building the boot loader arguments > Looking up /BOOT/LOADER... Found > Read error: 0x10 > Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor =46rom Ralf Brown's interrupt list error codes for disk I/O: 10h uncorrectable CRC or ECC error on read The part about the primary volume descriptor is a bug in cdboot where the read error message doesn't have a trailing \0, so it writes out both errors on a read error. I'll fix that part, but your BIOS is claiming it got a CRC error while trying to read /boot/loader in off the CD. If you mount the CD under a running system can you read all of /boot/loader ok? (Maybe compare md5 with a known good copy of /boot/loader.) =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 20:17:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65AC16A4A9; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E0C13C46A; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92571A3C1A; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:00:15 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:31:24 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200711171231.25393.jhb@freebsd.org> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: loader and "Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:17:00 -0000 On Friday 16 November 2007 01:55:06 pm Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Trying to boot PC-BSD 1.4.1 and I get: >=20 > CD Loader 1.2 > Building the boot loader arguments > Looking up /BOOT/LOADER... Found > Read error: 0x10 > Could not find Primary Volume Descriptor =46rom Ralf Brown's interrupt list error codes for disk I/O: 10h uncorrectable CRC or ECC error on read The part about the primary volume descriptor is a bug in cdboot where the read error message doesn't have a trailing \0, so it writes out both errors on a read error. I'll fix that part, but your BIOS is claiming it got a CRC error while trying to read /boot/loader in off the CD. If you mount the CD under a running system can you read all of /boot/loader ok? (Maybe compare md5 with a known good copy of /boot/loader.) =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 17 22:37:55 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81BB616A418; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.135]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCD613C447; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lAHMbdFK008699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:37:39 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from dzihan.cs.washington.edu (dzihan.cs.washington.edu [128.208.4.96]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lAHMbcF2029414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:37:39 -0800 Message-ID: <473F6D31.1050902@u.washington.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:37:37 -0800 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071003) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yuri References: <1195250927.473e14ef935c6@webmail.rawbw.com> <473E16A2.1070308@FreeBSD.org> <473E2A13.9070301@u.washington.edu> <1195262220.473e410c624a6@webmail.rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: <1195262220.473e410c624a6@webmail.rawbw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.3.310218, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2007.11.17.141247 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='BODY_SIZE_800_899 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: Kip Macy , Remko Lodder , chat@freebsd.org, yuri@tsoft.com Subject: Re: Any hope to have things requested by NVidia in FreeBSD-7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:37:55 -0000 Yuri wrote: >> Can't there be something added such as an easy to search for FAQ so >> this topic doesn't come up 2-7 times per month? I know people should use >> a search engine and search for the information first, but people seem >> extremely lazy and always ask current@, hackers@, and questions@, >> amongst other lists I'm sure.. >> Thanks, >> -Garrett >> >> PS Please CC me if replying on chat@, as I'm not subscribed to that list. >> > > BTW googling "nvidia freebsd driver amd64" doesn't show this Wiki-page on the > first 3 google-pages. > This means that it's not named properly. 'Feature requests' isn't what most > people would search for. > > Yuri > Need to tip the Google scales a bit then. More people that go to the wiki with that search query will increase the probability of the wiki page being in the top X number of queries.. -Garrett