From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 28 11:06:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06375106566C for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A018FC2D for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6SB6poq078832 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:51 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.1/Submit) id m6SB6pFA078828 for freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:51 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:51 GMT Message-Id: <200807281106.m6SB6pFA078828@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:06:52 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o alpha/61940 alpha [sysinstall] Can't disklabel new disk from FreeBSD/alp o alpha/61973 alpha Machine Check on boot-up of AlphaServer 2100A RM s alpha/67626 alpha X crashes an alpha machine, resulting reboot o alpha/85346 alpha PREEMPTION causes unstability in Alpha4000 SMP kernel o alpha/105134 alpha 'panic: lockmgr: thread ... not exclusive lock owner' 5 problems total. Non-critical problems S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o alpha/25284 alpha PC164 won't reboot with graphics console o alpha/38031 alpha osf1.ko not loaded during boot-time of linux-emu enabl o alpha/48676 alpha Changing the baud rate of serial consoles for Alpha sy o alpha/67903 alpha hw.chipset.memory: 1099511627776 - thats way to much : 4 problems total. From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 21:58:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5351E106566B for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:58:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFD08FC16 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:58:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOg9u-0003il-4E; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:58:08 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOg9s-0006JQ-Ub; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:58:05 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VLw3nU035285; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:58:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6VLw3xX035284; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:58:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:58:03 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Gerald Pfeifer Message-ID: <20080731215803.GA35238@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080708091924.GA9171@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lang/gcc42 on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:58:10 -0000 On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:19:11AM +0200, Gerald Pfeifer wrote: > Hi Anton, > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > I've been using lang/gcc42 on alpha for more than a year now. > > My calculation shows that the port was updated 25 times during > > last year. Each time I upgraded the port with no problem, except > > for as failure, which happens on my i386 just the same: > > thanks for the report. This is the first feedback I got during the > more than three years that we have had NOT_FOR_ARCHS=alpha for the > newer lang/gcc ports. > > > Accordingly I wonder why lang/gcc42 is still marked > > NOT_FOR_ARCHS= alpha > > > > Are there other alpha users who have trouble with this port? > > The original reports that triggered this change came from the FreeBSD > Ports Build Cluster. I did some archeology, and here is what I had sent > to a member of the portmgr team back than in response, which resulted in > the suggestion to use NOT_FOR_ARCHS: > > I just wasted a couple of ours bringing sparc64 back to bootstrap-land > for GCC 4.0 and GCC 4.1 because *nobody*, not a single FreeBSD developer > or user apparently tried to build either for many moons. And now the > same is starting for alpha; isn't that a waste of our time, for the sake > of one or two enthusiasts? > > I'm fine giving it a try and remove NOT_FOR_ARCHS=alpha for lang/gcc42. > If there are problems with it, I may ask you for help or put this back > in, though. ;-) Gerald, many thanks. Yes, please do this. I'm happy to help with testing. thanks anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 22:10:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2685A106564A for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:10:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D678FC13 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:10:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from isis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.63]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOgLh-00041J-Ff for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:10:28 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by isis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOgLg-0000Yd-TY for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:10:17 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VMAGXc035337 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:10:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6VMAFBq035336 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:10:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:10:15 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Subject: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:10:29 -0000 I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. There must be more. Is there a way to find out how many people are on this list? Is it a good indicator? I, for one, am very keen to have some level of support for FBSD on alpha, even at 6-stable branch. However, if the actual usage is indeed very small, it must be expected that ports maintainers will stop supporting alpha soon. I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. I'm thinking at the moment about gcc42, firefox3, lapack, lapack95, blas. many thanks anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 22:24:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28421106567F; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:24:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21308FC1C; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:24:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from isis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.63]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOgZi-0004Jl-HB; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:24:48 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by isis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOgZh-0000fi-Ci; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:24:46 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VMOhnC035960; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:24:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6VMOhwn035959; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:24:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:24:43 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Wilko Bulte Message-ID: <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080708122352.GA76546@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.3 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: gnome@freebsd.org, Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:24:52 -0000 On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:59:29AM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Quoting Jeremy Messenger, who wrote on Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 05:44:11PM -0500 .. > > On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:23:52 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht > > wrote: > > > > > > A followup. It seems xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp is missing. It > > > is used in Makefile: > > > > I think most of us don't have any alpha machine. You might have to create > > patch for us. I think, the alpha support has been dropped so it's > > pointless for us to work on alpha support. > > The latest release of FreeBSD supporting the Alpha platform port is > RELENG_6. Anything newer no longer supports Alpha. I'm happy with RELENG_6 on alpha. I'm happy to test firefox3 on alpha, but need to learn about pathes. In this particular case it seems that (at least) 2 files are missing from the distribution: xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp (curiously the corresponding *alpha.cpp files are present for osf1, linux, openvms and openbsd). I think that whoever created the tar file simply forgot to add the freebsd files. I did try to contact mozilla developers directly, but no reply so far. I understand that mozilla developers put out the tar file. Perhaps the port maintainers could alert the mozilla team about the missing files, or maybe even get these 2 files. I'd be very greatful. many thanks anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 22:42:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74061065671; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:42:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from eastrmmtao106.cox.net (eastrmmtao106.cox.net [68.230.240.48]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4991D8FC13; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:42:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080731224210.XQBE4226.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:42:10 -0400 Received: from mezz.mezzweb.com ([24.255.149.218]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id wmi91Z0054iy4EG02mi9ek; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:42:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:42:17 -0500 To: "Anton Shterenlikht" From: "Jeremy Messenger" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080708122352.GA76546@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.51 (Linux) Cc: gnome@freebsd.org, Wilko Bulte , freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:42:11 -0000 On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:24:43 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:59:29AM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: >> Quoting Jeremy Messenger, who wrote on Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 05:44:11PM >> -0500 .. >> > On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:23:52 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > A followup. It seems xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp is missing. It >> > > is used in Makefile: >> > >> > I think most of us don't have any alpha machine. You might have to >> create >> > patch for us. I think, the alpha support has been dropped so it's >> > pointless for us to work on alpha support. >> >> The latest release of FreeBSD supporting the Alpha platform port is >> RELENG_6. Anything newer no longer supports Alpha. > > I'm happy with RELENG_6 on alpha. > I'm happy to test firefox3 on alpha, but need to learn about pathes. > > In this particular case it seems that (at least) 2 files > are missing from the distribution: > > xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp > xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp > > (curiously the corresponding *alpha.cpp files are present for osf1, > linux, > openvms and openbsd). > > I think that whoever created the tar file simply forgot to add the > freebsd > files. > > I did try to contact mozilla developers directly, but no reply so far. > I understand that mozilla developers put out the tar file. Perhaps the > port maintainers could alert the mozilla team about the missing files, > or maybe even get these 2 files. I'd be very greatful. Have you tried 3.0.1 yet? The Makefile.in has changed by Mozilla team: --------------------------------------------------- ###################################################################### # # Tru64/Alpha # ifeq ($(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST),OSF1alpha) CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_osf1_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_osf1_alpha.cpp ASFILES := xptcinvoke_asm_osf1_alpha.s xptcstubs_asm_osf1_alpha.s endif # # Linux/Alpha # ifneq (,$(filter Linuxalpha FreeBSDalpha NetBSDalpha,$(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST))) CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_linux_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_linux_alpha.cpp endif --------------------------------------------------- But I have no idea if it works. Cheers, Mezz > many thanks > anton -- mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 23:39:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8690B1065670 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:39:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rjv@weblinkmo.com) Received: from mail845.megamailservers.com (mail845.carrierinternetsolutions.com [69.49.106.55]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001918FC22 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rjv@weblinkmo.com) X-Authenticated-User: dorf71.covad.net Received: from depot.axxiscorp.com (h-68-167-90-138.chcgilgm.covad.net [68.167.90.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail845.megamailservers.com (8.13.6.20060614/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m6VMECBS001646; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:14:13 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:14:10 -0500 Message-ID: <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECACD@depot.AxxisCorp.local> In-Reply-To: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: thread-topic: future for FBSD on alpha Thread-Index: AcjzWk83JdTkWw+OSW22DY6Zdm6FDAAABJPg References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> From: "Richard J. Valenta" To: "Anton Shterenlikht" , Cc: Subject: RE: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:39:28 -0000 I'm using it for an old DS20 server downstairs... the machine doesn't = get the use it used to, but I like having a stable OS on it... and love = FreeBSD's server environment. So, if you weren't counting me - add me = to the list... =A0 Richard J. Valenta=20 Note:=A0 The information contained in this e-mail message, including any = attachments, is legally privileged and confidential.=A0 If you are not = the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, use or = dissemination of this message is strictly prohibited.=A0 If you have = received this message in error, please immediately, notify us by = telephone and delete this message from your system. =A0 This message is NOT or NOLONGER ENCRYPTED=20 =A0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----=20 iQA/AwUBPxB11XHywJHFtakmEQLR7QCePuVbfTACQLrLVaN2aHVqHtJJHOIAoJP3=20 lSDDPwENBV3deRd/CMhMq2+N=20 =3DxnNu=20 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org = [mailto:owner-freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Anton Shterenlikht Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 5:10 PM To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: future for FBSD on alpha I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. There must be more. Is there a way to find out how many people are on this list? Is it a good indicator? I, for one, am very keen to have some level of support for FBSD on alpha, even at 6-stable branch. However, if the actual usage is indeed very small, it must be expected that ports maintainers will stop supporting alpha soon. I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. I'm thinking at the moment about gcc42, firefox3, lapack, lapack95, blas. many thanks anton --=20 Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233=20 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 _______________________________________________ freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-alpha To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-alpha-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 00:31:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0816E1065675 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:31:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.238.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0908FC13 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:31:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from localhost (ardelean@localhost) by servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id m7106iI31996; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:06:44 +0200 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:06:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Gheorghe Ardelean To: Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:31:11 -0000 Hi, On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. > According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. > There must be more. Yes, there are more. I have 5 running 6.3 Release (AlphaPC64, AlphaPC164, 2x AXPpci33 w/custom kernel, PWS 433au). > I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, > like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha > for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby > ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. Having us testing will help the port maintainers a lot. Best regards, Gheorghe Ardelean. From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 00:48:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96A11065672 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:48:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from floort@gmail.com) Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com (ik-out-1112.google.com [66.249.90.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACB28FC0A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:48:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from floort@gmail.com) Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c30so1288815ika.3 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:48:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:message-id:references:user-agent:mime-version :content-type:from; bh=OzjxTRRvAdPCh8NZ0d3TpDDqcdI2FTBZqLRi/uDqg+0=; b=BUmVVPeDimOLytQp6GN5Hqz/C+UoYgeOa4AfrIr7QAr4+aTwvIXgI/0gJnL02Ms46l FXx+pkaICXB2vM7KzJ9j3QtDAJOpgNA8aFappfM+DvABEhXVtO5uj3TeKLo83Hr843tL E5U3DLndIer5PQ/axEK2CaEmMelA0qEQQTO3w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:from; b=Ea8jbgdSfQznmYuTSCFLWrNwhnUqss1jhqOgxyWUwC7QrWJl7f+HsZMmAGiY0UADrj UJzzSdmqYfMGywxWgz9GOzIJSIBhhKWmCsfbud8KQSdizh3+oqdRyux3Aq4Lg7tq4ShI Vr97PlN3sZiozM4grxaegMAKcLQ4zsxh19BYI= Received: by 10.210.47.1 with SMTP id u1mr11702172ebu.133.1217550083419; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ( [62.194.227.193]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g17sm550720nfd.3.2008.07.31.17.21.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:21:21 +0200 (CEST) To: Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (BSO 882 2007-12-20) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Floor Terra Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:48:42 -0000 On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. > According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. > There must be more. > I run FreeBSD on an Alpha. But because of the power requirements of keeping the machine running, its rarely powered on. So you can count me as an inactive user. It would be a shame to see an architecture dropped from support though.... > Is there a way to find out how many people are on this list? > Is it a good indicator? > > I, for one, am very keen to have some level of support > for FBSD on alpha, even at 6-stable branch. However, > if the actual usage is indeed very small, it must be expected > that ports maintainers will stop supporting alpha soon. > > I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, > like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha > for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby > ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. > > I'm thinking at the moment about gcc42, firefox3, lapack, lapack95, > blas. > > many thanks > anton > > -- > Anton Shterenlikht > Room 2.6, Queen's Building > Mech Eng Dept > Bristol University > University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK > Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 > Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-alpha > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-alpha-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Floor Terra www: http://brobding.mine.nu/ Netiquette Guidelines: http://www.apps.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.html From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 06:08:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E885C1065688 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:08:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0828FC0A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:08:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m715VmS98809 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id FAA22725; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 05:30:01 GMT Message-Id: <200808010530.FAA22725@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:10:15 BST." <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:30:01 +0100 From: Dieter Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:08:17 -0000 > I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. > According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. > There must be more. There are lots of BSD machines that bsdstats.org doesn't know about. > Is there a way to find out how many people are on this list? > Is it a good indicator? Probably the best indicator I can think of. Some people on the list will be running multiple machines, others will be just reading the list but not running any machines. For example, I'm running NetBSD on my Alphas. > I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, > like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha > for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby > ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. I might be interested in switching from Net to Free, but if support is going away that would be a bad idea. 1-3 years isn't very long. This is part of a larger problem. NetBSD is also dropping support for arches. People don't want to support things like uucp or usenet any more. Anything more than 5 nanoseconds old just isn't considered cool. Even if the replacements are far worse, which is often the case. What are we supposed to do with older boxes? Some applications that don't require the latest fast hardware, like firewalls, still require support and security fixes. Throwing machines into the landfill isn't very green. Sometimes a developer will complain that maintaining support for something takes too much time, but will then spend large amounts of time removing support. Hmmmmm... From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 08:55:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB065106564A; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C208FC08; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOqQ6-00034f-22; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:55:34 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOqQ5-0003un-8v; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:55:29 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m718tSNX092162; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:55:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m718tRO9092161; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:55:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:55:27 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Jeremy Messenger Message-ID: <20080801085527.GA84573@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080708122352.GA76546@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.3 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: gnome@freebsd.org, freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:55:35 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 05:42:17PM -0500, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:24:43 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht > wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:59:29AM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > >> Quoting Jeremy Messenger, who wrote on Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 05:44:11PM > >> -0500 .. > >> > On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:23:52 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht > >> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > A followup. It seems xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp is missing. It > >> > > is used in Makefile: > >> > > >> > I think most of us don't have any alpha machine. You might have to > >> create > >> > patch for us. I think, the alpha support has been dropped so it's > >> > pointless for us to work on alpha support. > >> > >> The latest release of FreeBSD supporting the Alpha platform port is > >> RELENG_6. Anything newer no longer supports Alpha. > > > > I'm happy with RELENG_6 on alpha. > > I'm happy to test firefox3 on alpha, but need to learn about pathes. > > > > In this particular case it seems that (at least) 2 files > > are missing from the distribution: > > > > xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp > > xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp > > > > (curiously the corresponding *alpha.cpp files are present for osf1, > > linux, > > openvms and openbsd). > > > > I think that whoever created the tar file simply forgot to add the > > freebsd > > files. > > > > I did try to contact mozilla developers directly, but no reply so far. > > I understand that mozilla developers put out the tar file. Perhaps the > > port maintainers could alert the mozilla team about the missing files, > > or maybe even get these 2 files. I'd be very greatful. > > Have you tried 3.0.1 yet? The Makefile.in has changed by Mozilla team: > > --------------------------------------------------- > ###################################################################### > # > # Tru64/Alpha > # > ifeq ($(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST),OSF1alpha) > CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_osf1_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_osf1_alpha.cpp > ASFILES := xptcinvoke_asm_osf1_alpha.s xptcstubs_asm_osf1_alpha.s > endif > # > # Linux/Alpha > # > ifneq (,$(filter Linuxalpha FreeBSDalpha NetBSDalpha,$(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST))) > CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_linux_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_linux_alpha.cpp > endif > --------------------------------------------------- > > But I have no idea if it works. I just tried again, and get the same error: gmake[8]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect /xptcall/src/md/unix' gmake[8]: *** No rule to make target `xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.o', needed by `li bxptcmd.a'. Stop. gmake[8]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect/ xptcall/src/md/unix' gmake[7]: *** [libs] Error 2 Also my Makefile.in under /usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect/xptcall/src/md/unix still requires these 2 files: ###################################################################### # Alpha ###################################################################### # [skip] # # FreeBSD/Alpha # ifeq ($(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST),FreeBSDalpha) CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp endif which are missing: -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 09:10:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70A8106564A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8625D8FC13 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from isis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.63]) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOqeQ-0003xN-HV for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:10:20 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by isis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOqeO-0007Cz-TM for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:10:18 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m719AGAh096219 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:10:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m719AF9g096218 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:10:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:10:15 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080801091015.GA92710@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Subject: anybody running port www/amaya X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:10:21 -0000 Being unable to build firefox3 on alpha I turned in desperation to other web browsers from ports. I built www/amaya fine, but get this error on start-up: % amaya Gdk-ERROR **: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) serial 129 error_code 2 request_code 51 minor_code 0 % The developers' advice is to use devel/strace to trace the problem, but it only builds on i386. Is anybody using this port on alpha? many thanks anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 09:49:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26A6106566B for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:49:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk) Received: from mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk [217.79.104.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750F88FC2C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:49:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk) Received: from webmail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (unknown [172.16.2.21]) by mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5745A33C5B; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:34:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 193.131.192.95 (SquirrelMail authenticated user macgyver) by webmail.calibre-solutions.co.uk with HTTP; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:34:25 -0000 (UTC) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:34:25 -0000 (UTC) From: "Angus MacGyver" To: "Gheorghe Ardelean" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:49:37 -0000 On Fri, August 1, 2008 00:06, Gheorghe Ardelean wrote: > > Hi, > > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > >> I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. >> According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. >> There must be more. > > Yes, there are more. I have 5 running 6.3 Release (AlphaPC64, AlphaPC164, > 2x AXPpci33 w/custom kernel, PWS 433au). Indeed more - I counted 15 on there (remembering to look at all possible flavours - Digital etc) FBSD on AXP architecture has been the most stable, bombproof system I have ever run. (always custom kernel, and upto 4 Jails per physical machine) It is a great shame that Compaq and HP mis-managed this architecture to the point of obselesence - totally criminal IMHO. >> I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, >> like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha >> for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby >> ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. If FBSD hasn't announced EOL - then I would still be running it on AXP - at least until the hardware gave out (and I had 5 machines as well - 2x LX164 and 3x SX164 - so that could have been quite some time) As it was - I (only just) migrated to x86 kit (at least it's low power!) to make sure my production kit wasn't adversely affected by quality or security issues when the ports started to falter. > > Having us testing will help the port maintainers a lot. Whilst I would support testing - I personally have fairly limited time to build and test now - and quite a lot of sysadmins I know are in the same boat. If there are enough people to do this - then it might just work. The we must do - if this is going to go ahead, - is to make reasonable decisions about what ports are the "most wanted" - say apache22 and mysql for example - and not "care" about something like "joe" (I just use these as examples - after all one can use a different editor - but a different webserver or DB is another matter) just my $0.02 > Best regards, AM From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 11:06:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8CDF1065699 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:06:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27FB8FC23 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:06:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from isis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.63]) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOsSd-0003Ee-Lx for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:06:17 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by isis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOsSd-0000e0-1z for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:06:15 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71B6ERt017561 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:06:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71B6ETv017560 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:06:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:06:14 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080801110614.GA17503@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:06:19 -0000 On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:34:25AM -0000, Angus MacGyver wrote: > > On Fri, August 1, 2008 00:06, Gheorghe Ardelean wrote: > > > > Having us testing will help the port maintainers a lot. > > > Whilst I would support testing - I personally have fairly limited time to > build and test now - and quite a lot of sysadmins I know are in the same > boat. > > If there are enough people to do this - then it might just work. > > The we must do - if this is going to go ahead, - is to make reasonable > decisions about what ports are the "most wanted" - say apache22 and mysql > for example - and not "care" about something like "joe" (I just use these > as examples - after all one can use a different editor - but a different > webserver or DB is another matter) this sounds like a good idea - a list of most wanted ports. However, even 1 or 2 big ports might require lots of dependencies. For example I've 229 ports at present, of which only 20 or so are top level, like ImageMagick, xpdf, teTeX, some X clients. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 11:35:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9461065676 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:35:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2128FC18 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:35:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from isis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.63]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOsvB-00059n-V9; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:35:48 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by isis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOsvA-0000wL-Hc; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:35:45 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71BZhhY024905; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:35:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71BZfjr024904; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:35:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:35:41 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Dieter Message-ID: <20080801113541.GA24809@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <200808010530.FAA22725@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200808010530.FAA22725@sopwith.solgatos.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:35:49 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:30:01PM +0100, Dieter wrote: > > I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. > > According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. > > There must be more. > > There are lots of BSD machines that bsdstats.org doesn't > know about. > > > Is there a way to find out how many people are on this list? > > Is it a good indicator? > > Probably the best indicator I can think of. So how to find out the list membership? many thanks anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 11:51:26 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06EB51065675; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:51:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD2F08FC1F; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:51:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOtAA-0005c3-NQ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:51:25 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOtA9-0006sa-Ln; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:51:14 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71BpCnK025255; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:51:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71BpAdB025254; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:51:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:51:09 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Anton Shterenlikht Message-ID: <20080801115109.GA25235@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080708122352.GA76546@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080801085527.GA84573@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080801085527.GA84573@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: gnome@freebsd.org, Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:51:26 -0000 On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:55:27AM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 05:42:17PM -0500, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:24:43 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht > > wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:59:29AM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > >> Quoting Jeremy Messenger, who wrote on Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 05:44:11PM > > >> -0500 .. > > >> > On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:23:52 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > A followup. It seems xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp is missing. It > > >> > > is used in Makefile: > > >> > > > >> > I think most of us don't have any alpha machine. You might have to > > >> create > > >> > patch for us. I think, the alpha support has been dropped so it's > > >> > pointless for us to work on alpha support. > > >> > > >> The latest release of FreeBSD supporting the Alpha platform port is > > >> RELENG_6. Anything newer no longer supports Alpha. > > > > > > I'm happy with RELENG_6 on alpha. > > > I'm happy to test firefox3 on alpha, but need to learn about pathes. > > > > > > In this particular case it seems that (at least) 2 files > > > are missing from the distribution: > > > > > > xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp > > > xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp > > > > > > (curiously the corresponding *alpha.cpp files are present for osf1, > > > linux, > > > openvms and openbsd). > > > > > > I think that whoever created the tar file simply forgot to add the > > > freebsd > > > files. > > > > > > I did try to contact mozilla developers directly, but no reply so far. > > > I understand that mozilla developers put out the tar file. Perhaps the > > > port maintainers could alert the mozilla team about the missing files, > > > or maybe even get these 2 files. I'd be very greatful. > > > > Have you tried 3.0.1 yet? The Makefile.in has changed by Mozilla team: > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > ###################################################################### > > # > > # Tru64/Alpha > > # > > ifeq ($(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST),OSF1alpha) > > CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_osf1_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_osf1_alpha.cpp > > ASFILES := xptcinvoke_asm_osf1_alpha.s xptcstubs_asm_osf1_alpha.s > > endif > > # > > # Linux/Alpha > > # > > ifneq (,$(filter Linuxalpha FreeBSDalpha NetBSDalpha,$(OS_ARCH)$(OS_TEST))) > > CPPSRCS := xptcinvoke_linux_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_linux_alpha.cpp > > endif > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > But I have no idea if it works. > > I just tried again, and get the same error: > > gmake[8]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect > /xptcall/src/md/unix' > gmake[8]: *** No rule to make target `xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.o', needed by `li > bxptcmd.a'. Stop. > gmake[8]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect/ > xptcall/src/md/unix' > gmake[7]: *** [libs] Error 2 > > Also my Makefile.in under > /usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect/xptcall/src/md/unix > > still requires these 2 files. I tried to copy these 2 files from firefox to firefox3. One file compiles, the other does not: gmake[8]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect /xptcall/src/md/unix' xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp c++ -o xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.o -c -DMOZILLA_INTERNAL_API -DOSTYPE=\"FreeBSD6 \" -DOSARCH=FreeBSD -DEXPORT_XPTC_API -D_IMPL_NS_COM -I./../.. -I./../../../../x ptinfo/src -I. -I. -I../../../../../../dist/include/string -I../../../../../../ dist/include -I../../../../../../dist/include/xpcom -I/usr/local/include/nspr -I/usr/include -I/usr/local/include -fPIC -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/loc al/include -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions -Wall -Wconversion -Wpointer-arith -Woverlo aded-virtual -Wsynth -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -Wcast-align - Wno-long-long -O -pipe -mcpu=ev6 -mieee -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-strict-ali asing -fshort-wchar -pipe -DNDEBUG -DTRIMMED -O -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/l ocal/include -DMOZILLA_CLIENT -include ../../../../../../mozilla-config.h xptcin voke_freebsd_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp c++ -o xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.o -c -DMOZILLA_INTERNAL_API -DOSTYPE=\"FreeBSD6\ " -DOSARCH=FreeBSD -DEXPORT_XPTC_API -D_IMPL_NS_COM -I./../.. -I./../../../../xp tinfo/src -I. -I. -I../../../../../../dist/include/string -I../../../../../../d ist/include -I../../../../../../dist/include/xpcom -I/usr/local/include/nspr -I/usr/include -I/usr/local/include -fPIC -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/loca l/include -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions -Wall -Wconversion -Wpointer-arith -Woverloa ded-virtual -Wsynth -Wno-ctor-dtor-privacy -Wno-non-virtual-dtor -Wcast-align -W no-long-long -O -pipe -mcpu=ev6 -mieee -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-strict-alia sing -fshort-wchar -pipe -DNDEBUG -DTRIMMED -O -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/lo cal/include -DMOZILLA_CLIENT -include ../../../../../../mozilla-config.h xptcstu bs_freebsd_alpha.cpp xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp: In function `nsresult PrepareAndDispatch(nsXPTCStub Base*, uint32, PRUint64*)': xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp:59: error: `nsIInterfaceInfo' was not declared in th is scope xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp:59: error: `iface_info' was not declared in this sco pe xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp:67: error: 'class nsXPTCStubBase' has no member name d 'GetInterfaceInfo' xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp:131: error: 'class nsXPTCStubBase' has no member nam ed 'CallMethod' xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp:59: warning: unused variable 'nsIInterfaceInfo' gmake[8]: *** [xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.o] Error 1 gmake[8]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/www/firefox3/work/mozilla/xpcom/reflect/ xptcall/src/md/unix' gmake[7]: *** [libs] Error 2 -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 12:03:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED3D106564A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:03:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.238.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA69B8FC18 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:03:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from localhost (ardelean@localhost) by servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id m71C3Th02721; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:03:29 +0200 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:03:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Gheorghe Ardelean To: Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080801110614.GA17503@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:03:42 -0000 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:34:25AM -0000, Angus MacGyver wrote: > > > > On Fri, August 1, 2008 00:06, Gheorghe Ardelean wrote: > > > > > > Having us testing will help the port maintainers a lot. > > > > > > Whilst I would support testing - I personally have fairly limited time to > > build and test now - and quite a lot of sysadmins I know are in the same > > boat. > > > > If there are enough people to do this - then it might just work. > > > > The we must do - if this is going to go ahead, - is to make reasonable > > decisions about what ports are the "most wanted" - say apache22 and mysql > > for example - and not "care" about something like "joe" (I just use these > > as examples - after all one can use a different editor - but a different > > webserver or DB is another matter) > > this sounds like a good idea - a list of most wanted ports. > However, even 1 or 2 big ports might require lots of dependencies. > For example I've 229 ports at present, of which only 20 or so > are top level, like ImageMagick, xpdf, teTeX, some X clients. I am also planing to upload the ports I have built during my 6.3-Release testing on my alphas. My plans are to upload to ftp.ro.freebsd.org (the server I manage) but I do not know in wich directory. Maybe packages-6.3-release-local or so ?! Wilko would this be ok? What about smoething similar to this: http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/sparc64/Volunteers Best regards, Gheorghe Ardelean. From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 12:04:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7AD1065676 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:04:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B62E8FC12 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:04:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOtND-0006Qg-53; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:04:46 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOtNC-0006zX-D6; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:04:42 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71C4fRq029725; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:04:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71C4fbx029724; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:04:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:04:41 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Pedro Giffuni , freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080801120440.GA29656@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <54163.68650.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <54163.68650.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:04:48 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 09:08:43PM -0700, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > > Hmm.. also.. since you are in the Mechanical Engineering dept., you'll be glad to know that Code Aster is developed in alpha machines. > Why is it under ports/french? Shouldn't it be under math or science? -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 14:38:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A017E106564A; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:38:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544278FC08; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:38:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOvm2-0005Zo-PK; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:38:32 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOvm2-0000az-4k; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:38:30 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71EcTxO065417; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:38:29 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71EcSR3065416; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:38:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:38:28 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Message-ID: <20080801143828.GC34016@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080708122352.GA76546@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080801085527.GA84573@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080801115109.GA25235@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080801115109.GA25235@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: / Cc: gnome@freebsd.org, Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: firefox2 works fine [WAS: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha] X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:38:33 -0000 Anybody else running firefox2 on alpha? Anybody else interested in firefox3? -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 14:45:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895111065673 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:45:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.238.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5048FC17 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:45:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from localhost (ardelean@localhost) by servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id m71Ejdo03560; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:45:39 +0200 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:45:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Gheorghe Ardelean To: Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080801143828.GC34016@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: gnome@freebsd.org, Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: firefox2 works fine [WAS: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha] X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:45:52 -0000 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > Anybody else running firefox2 on alpha? Yes! I do. Regards, Gheorghe Ardelean From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 14:56:23 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8A31065671 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: from web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.251]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A37E58FC13 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:56:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 19063 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Aug 2008 14:29:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=m1lbATgwoLC9gsUQlHl2CB+IoV9cTfTaUVJ8bs/D2iMIKa6l8yrbnBUVdNCFCL7JW4EHZp+luCanzZCP1n0tcoRp7e1dd6aydRP8z6qC4c7MFOFkeKBQiQxzEfPs8NKaQC5m8tqIj9PwM9z8t7X3YRfpsWH8RmdQh/yRf0i6ZaY=; Received: from [190.158.44.147] by web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:29:41 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.218 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 07:29:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Pedro Giffuni To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org, Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080801120440.GA29656@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <300257.17954.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: pfgshield-freebsd@yahoo.com List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:56:23 -0000 --- Ven 1/8/08, Anton Shterenlikht ha scritto: > Da: Anton Shterenlikht > >=20 > > Hmm.. also.. since you are in the Mechanical > Engineering dept., you'll be glad to know that Code > Aster is developed in alpha machines. > >=20 >=20 > Why is it under ports/french? Code Aster was developed by EDF, so the original (and complete) documentati= on is available in French. > Shouldn't it be under math or science? >=20 It is also listed in CAD. Pedro.=0A=0A=0A Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina= . =0ACrea l'home page che piace a te!=0Awww.yahoo.it/latuapagina From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 14:58:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12331065672; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:58:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3958FC0A; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:58:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m71EwNpE092154; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:58:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m71EwNxh001421; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:58:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71EwM1A001420; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:58:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:58:22 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Anton Shterenlikht Message-ID: <20080801145822.GC1356@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080708122352.GA76546@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: gnome@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:58:34 -0000 Quoting Anton Shterenlikht, who wrote on Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:24:43PM +0100 .. > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 12:59:29AM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > Quoting Jeremy Messenger, who wrote on Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 05:44:11PM -0500 .. > > > On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:23:52 -0500, Anton Shterenlikht > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A followup. It seems xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp is missing. It > > > > is used in Makefile: > > > > > > I think most of us don't have any alpha machine. You might have to create > > > patch for us. I think, the alpha support has been dropped so it's > > > pointless for us to work on alpha support. > > > > The latest release of FreeBSD supporting the Alpha platform port is > > RELENG_6. Anything newer no longer supports Alpha. > > I'm happy with RELENG_6 on alpha. Nice to hear that. Thing is, ports have not been built on -alpha for ages now. There is not even a working Alpha machine anymore in the FreeBSD.org cluster for ports folks to test on if they were inclined to do so. ports have always been tricky on alpha, given the limited # of people running FreeBSD on Alpha. With the Alpha port effectively dead, and the amount of work of the ports committers going into current releases and archs I do not have high hopes. > I did try to contact mozilla developers directly, but no reply so far. > I understand that mozilla developers put out the tar file. Perhaps the > port maintainers could alert the mozilla team about the missing files, > or maybe even get these 2 files. I'd be very greatful. ENOCLUE on this one. -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 15:08:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B427A1065675 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:08:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr9.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr9.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFB38FC14 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:08:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr9.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m71F8YpF038235; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:08:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m71F8XTt001533; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:08:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71F8XUx001532; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:08:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:08:33 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Dieter Message-ID: <20080801150833.GE1356@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <200808010530.FAA22725@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200808010530.FAA22725@sopwith.solgatos.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:08:36 -0000 Quoting Dieter, who wrote on Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:30:01PM +0100 .. > > I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. > > According to bsdstats.org very few - less than 5 boxes. > > There must be more. > > There are lots of BSD machines that bsdstats.org doesn't > know about. Indeed. > > like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha > > for say 1-3 more years. If yes, we might be able to lobby > > ports maintainers not to drop support for alpha ports. > > I might be interested in switching from Net to Free, but if > support is going away that would be a bad idea. 1-3 years In all reality FreeBSD on Alpha is with one foot in the grave. After FreeBSD-6.x goes EOL things are dead. It would have been better (read: it would have made survivability of the Alpha-port a lot better) if people had voiced their interest/support a bit earlier.. Regardless, it is water under the bridge now. > isn't very long. This is part of a larger problem. NetBSD > is also dropping support for arches. People don't want to > support things like uucp or usenet any more. Anything more > than 5 nanoseconds old just isn't considered cool. Even if > the replacements are far worse, which is often the case. > What are we supposed to do with older boxes? Some applications > that don't require the latest fast hardware, like firewalls, > still require support and security fixes. Throwing machines > into the landfill isn't very green. True. On the other hand, the power consumption of the average / current Alpha is not exactly green either. I am not running mine regularly, only when I build releases/snapshots. -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 15:36:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805911065676 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:36:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0EA8FC0A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:36:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOwfg-0000Xw-Cg; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:36:02 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOwff-00017f-Ec; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:35:59 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71FZvNk016497; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:35:57 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71FZuTG016448; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:35:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:35:56 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: "Richard J. Valenta" Message-ID: <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECACD@depot.AxxisCorp.local> <20080731223325.GA35980@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECAD0@depot.AxxisCorp.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECAD0@depot.AxxisCorp.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:36:03 -0000 On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 10:20:51AM -0500, Richard J. Valenta wrote: > I am not familiar with bsdstats at all... basically if you install port sysutils/bsdstats (just a shell script), it will send a message from your box monthly to to bsdstats.org with arch, os version, etc. The idea is to lobby software producers into supporting their stuff on bsd by showing a large number of live bsd systems. My interest is in lobbying fbsd management team not to drop alpha support by showing a large number of live fbsd alpha systems. At present the numbers are so low that even RELENG_6 support might stop soon. If more people participated and a more realistic (read higher) number of alpha boxes appeared, perhaps we could prolong the life of fbsd on alpha. However, I agree with Wilko, fbsd on alpha is half dead. anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 15:50:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 523291065670 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:50:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr17.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr17.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB82A8FC12 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:50:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr17.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m71Fohmk064055; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:50:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m71FohFj001840; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:50:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71FohMo001839; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:50:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:50:43 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Anton Shterenlikht Message-ID: <20080801155042.GA1817@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECACD@depot.AxxisCorp.local> <20080731223325.GA35980@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECAD0@depot.AxxisCorp.local> <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:50:59 -0000 Quoting Anton Shterenlikht, who wrote on Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 04:35:56PM +0100 .. > On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 10:20:51AM -0500, Richard J. Valenta wrote: > > I am not familiar with bsdstats at all... > > basically if you install port sysutils/bsdstats (just a shell script), > it will send a message from your box monthly to to bsdstats.org > with arch, os version, etc. The idea is to lobby software > producers into supporting their stuff on bsd by showing a large number > of live bsd systems. > > My interest is in lobbying fbsd management team not to drop alpha > support by showing a large number of live fbsd alpha systems. At present Guys.. there is no such thing as a management team that can force committers on Alpha. Or anything subject in FreeBSD for that matter. Please remember that FreeBSD is a volunteer driven project. > the numbers are so low that even RELENG_6 support might stop soon. Alpha support is gone from the cvs (well.. svn now) repository for anything newer than RELENG_6. If you follow the cvs/svn commit messages you will have seen that. > If more people participated and a more realistic (read higher) number > of alpha boxes appeared, perhaps we could prolong the life of fbsd on alpha. It is too late.. sorry but thats a fact of life. -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 16:00:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3F0106567B for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:00:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789E48FC15 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m71G0la00483 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id PAA01605; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:59:39 GMT Message-Id: <200808011559.PAA01605@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:10:15 BST." <20080801091015.GA92710@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:59:39 +0100 From: Dieter Subject: web browsers for Alpha (was: Re: anybody running port www/amaya) X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:00:53 -0000 > Being unable to build firefox3 on alpha Have they done anything to make firefox LP64 clean? It's been awhile, but I once tried to get firefox to build on NetBSD/Alpha and got over 30,000 complaints from the compiler. Looking at the code, it was clear that the author thought all the world was ILP32. I submitted a patch fixing over 1100 problems but the firefox crew was very hostile, and I doubt they ever did anything with the patch. > I turned in desperation > to other web browsers from ports. Oddly Mozilla runs on both NetBSD/Alpha and FreeBSD/AMD64. I thought Firefox was just Mozilla with some non-web-browser stuff removed, but perhaps there are other differences. You might try Links and/or Dillo. Smaller, faster, higher quality code. They work on LP64 machines. Unfortunately they may not have all the features you need. Links (with -g for graphics mode) allows setting the font to any size you want, you can make it very small to get a poorly designed web page to fit on your screen, or crank it up if your eyes are tired. It also allows changing the size of images, which even mozilla-the-bloatfest can't do. Dillo actually cares about security. From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 16:13:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B917B10656D6 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:13:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk) Received: from mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk [217.79.104.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCF88FC13 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:13:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk) Received: from vmx.calibre-solutions.co.uk (coruscant.calibre-solutions.co.uk [172.16.1.1]) by mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5BB33C29; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:13:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.1.29] (unknown [172.16.1.29]) by vmx.calibre-solutions.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232AFAF919; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:13:10 +0100 (BST) From: macgyver To: Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080801110614.GA17503@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080801110614.GA17503@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:13:10 +0100 Message-Id: <1217607190.8664.9.camel@executor> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:13:11 -0000 On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 12:06 +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:34:25AM -0000, Angus MacGyver wrote: > > > > The we must do - if this is going to go ahead, - is to make reasonable > > decisions about what ports are the "most wanted" - say apache22 and mysql > > for example - and not "care" about something like "joe" (I just use these > > as examples - after all one can use a different editor - but a different > > webserver or DB is another matter) > > this sounds like a good idea - a list of most wanted ports. > However, even 1 or 2 big ports might require lots of dependencies. > For example I've 229 ports at present, of which only 20 or so > are top level, like ImageMagick, xpdf, teTeX, some X clients. > Big ports - yeah true - gotta start somewhere mind... I have 84 on this replacement x86 box - and it won't have been much different from the AXP machine - as it does pretty much same job. Another question that probably needs answering - and that may well skew what ports will be required - what do we all use AXP's for ? Me for example ran one as a webserver with no graphics card - just serial line access (the jails were each DNS/IRC/Mail/Http for isolation) I also ran another virtually identical (+gfx card) machine as a desktop (tell you what - I *knew* when I had that thing turned on - I didn't need to have the heating on upstairs!!!) Completely different uses will radically alter what ports are required. Regards AM From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 16:22:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB8A106566C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:22:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C778FC0C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:22:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m71GM1T00515 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:22:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id QAA11263; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:16:23 GMT Message-Id: <200808011616.QAA11263@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:34:25 -0000." Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:16:23 +0100 From: Dieter Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:22:05 -0000 > It is a great shame that Compaq and HP mis-managed this architecture to > the point of obselesence - totally criminal IMHO. The criminal part is that Inthell stole (yes stole) technology from DEC. DEC could have, and should have, shut Inthell down, but what's-his-name wimped out. One has to wonder what happened under the table. > As it was - I (only just) migrated to x86 kit (at least it's low power!) There's AMD64, with DEC technology that was obtained legally and morally. Although it is still a case of trying to make a silk purse (AMD64) from a sow's ear (x86). From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 16:24:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE32E1065672 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:24:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66BA8FC15 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:24:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from isis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.63]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOxQY-0003VF-7B; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:24:31 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by isis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOxQX-0003vy-FT; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:24:25 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71GOOrD094190; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:24:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71GON0g094189; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:24:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:24:23 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: macgyver Message-ID: <20080801162422.GA73400@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080801110614.GA17503@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <1217607190.8664.9.camel@executor> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1217607190.8664.9.camel@executor> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:24:33 -0000 On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 05:13:10PM +0100, macgyver wrote: > On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 12:06 +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:34:25AM -0000, Angus MacGyver wrote: > > Me for example ran one as a webserver with no graphics card - just > serial line access (the jails were each DNS/IRC/Mail/Http for isolation) > > > I also ran another virtually identical (+gfx card) machine as a desktop > (tell you what - I *knew* when I had that thing turned on - I didn't > need to have the heating on upstairs!!!) > > Completely different uses will radically alter what ports are required. sure, and different energy concerns. I've several ds10l in an air-con server room far away. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 17:00:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A14106566B for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7928FC1E for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:00:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m71H0m400576 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:00:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id QAA17051; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:53:25 GMT Message-Id: <200808011653.QAA17051@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:58:22 +0200." <20080801145822.GC1356@freebie.xs4all.nl> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:53:25 +0100 From: Dieter Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:00:52 -0000 > Thing is, ports have not been built on -alpha for > ages now. There is not even a working Alpha machine anymore in the > FreeBSD.org cluster for ports folks to test on if they were inclined to do > so. ports have always been tricky on alpha, given the limited # of people > running FreeBSD on Alpha. I've been running NetBSD/Alpha for many years, and beaten a lot of software into submission on it. I don't recall a single problem that wasn't ILP32 vs LP64. FreeBSD runs on AMD64, AMD64 is LP64, so what is the big problem getting apps to run on Alpha once they run on AMD64? Yes, I know that a lot of programs still aren't LP64 clean even today and therefore don't run properly on AMD64. But that isn't specific to Alpha. Turn the portability compiler warnings on (e.g. require function prototypes), fix the compiler warnings. At that point programs will run as well on AMD64 and Alpha as they do on x86. In theory there are 64 bit problems that compilers can't warn about, but I have never found any in code I've ported. When I compile ports on FreeBSD/AMD64 I usually see a bunch of compiler warnings fly by. Just because the compiler says warning rather than error doesn't mean you can ignore it. Warnings can and do point to actual bugs. Good quality code has NO compiler warnings. The only program I recall giving up on was firefox, and only because it was soooo big, sooo badly written, with soooo many problems, and so much hostility from the firefox people. Firefox in the original Greek means "segmentation fault". From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 17:02:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40CC10657CF for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:02:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk) Received: from mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk [217.79.104.52]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7517A8FC22 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:02:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from macgyver@calibre-solutions.co.uk) Received: from vmx.calibre-solutions.co.uk (coruscant.calibre-solutions.co.uk [172.16.1.1]) by mail.calibre-solutions.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8072033CA3; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:02:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.1.29] (unknown [172.16.1.29]) by vmx.calibre-solutions.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804F5AF919; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:02:27 +0100 (BST) From: Angus MacGyver To: Anton Shterenlikht In-Reply-To: <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECACD@depot.AxxisCorp.local> <20080731223325.GA35980@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <8F8C8CFE62002A4EB82EE1CE9F2ED7D40ECAD0@depot.AxxisCorp.local> <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:02:27 +0100 Message-Id: <1217610147.8664.37.camel@executor> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:02:29 -0000 On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 16:35 +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 10:20:51AM -0500, Richard J. Valenta wrote: > I am not familiar with bsdstats at all... > My interest is in lobbying fbsd management team not to drop alpha > support by showing a large number of live fbsd alpha systems. At present > the numbers are so low that even RELENG_6 support might stop soon. > If more people participated and a more realistic (read higher) number > of alpha boxes appeared, perhaps we could prolong the life of fbsd on alpha. > However, I agree with Wilko, fbsd on alpha is half dead. > > anton >  bsdstats - Neither was I. Not something that has exactly jumped out at me when installing at any point - unlike say other platforms (/methinks suse/ubuntu/fedora - let alone M$) Perhaps if that had been the case - more people would have known about it and participated and this situation may have bought the platform more time. - again as Wilko said - water under bridge :( /me fires up current BSD boxes to do just that - pity it's for a VIA C7 But as with anything open source - it never really dies - there is nothing to stop people interested enough, taking that code and continuing the work - should they choose to do so. (ignoring actually the part of doing it) Ditto with the vast majority of software that is run on the systems. Now - I'm not as familiar with the whole FBSD project "heirachy" or nooks and crannies of the BSD license - nor am I familiar enough about such issues as "forking" - but if pressure is enough - people do actually take on these sort of things. (I'm intentionally skipping if this would be a good idea etc. - I'm pointing out what is hard^H^H^H^H possible.) Let's face it - due to the age of the AXP platform - what else "new" would anyone want into the kernel for example ? Maybe better SMP - but I'd suggest that it's not like there is much else hardware wise that we would be putting into these machines is it ? That would/could remain fairly static. Security fixes is another matter however ...... I was going to mention alphacore - a Fedora Linux for Alpha - but then saw looked rather dead until i came across .. http://alphacore.info/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1785 OK- it ain't FBSD - but - might prolong those systems for a bit longer ??? again - my ~$0.04 (at today's exchange rate :-/ ) AM From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 17:18:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FB41065676 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804458FC19 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from seis.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.93]) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOyGP-0000MY-49; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:18:03 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.238]) by seis.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KOyGO-0001t5-8f; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:18:00 +0100 Received: from mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost.men.bris.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71HHwDK017435; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:17:58 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71HHtIl017166; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:17:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) X-Authentication-Warning: mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk: mexas set sender to mexas@bristol.ac.uk using -f Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:17:55 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht To: Richard Loken Message-ID: <20080801171755.GA87554@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> References: <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:18:06 -0000 On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 11:06:15AM -0600, Richard Loken wrote: > On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > basically if you install port sysutils/bsdstats (just a shell script), > > it will send a message from your box monthly to to bsdstats.org > > with arch, os version, etc. The idea is to lobby software > > producers into supporting their stuff on bsd by showing a large number > > of live bsd systems. > > It is shame that I (and maybe a few thousand other Alpha FreeBSD users) > hadn't heard of bsdstats and bsdstats.org five or more years ago. I find > it amazing that the open source OS's for Alphas are deemed dead befor HP > themselves have finished filling in the grave. I think it is still useful if people participate in bsdstats.org. If not for alpha, then for FBSD sake. It would be great if more commercial software was supported on FBSD (whatever architecture), and for this bigger numbers are required. > > Fruther to this non-communication/miscommunication morass, I have never > upgraded my PC164 beyond FreeBSD 5 because I was led to believe that X > did not work on Alpha version 6. Sheesh... It is my home workstation so > I want X on it and, yes, it does help to keep me warm in the winter. I run xdmcp and X clients on ds10l - I like it. I usually run servers on i386 FBSD-7 - no problems. > As for winning the heating and power consumption war. My work station here > in the office is an Alphaserver 4100 with two 600MHz CPU's and 4G of memory > running OpenVMS 7.3-1. I am used to the hum and it keeps the office warm. > > Why VMS? Because I was abandoned by FreeBSD. I also run a VMS 8.3 Alpha-I64 cluster under free educational licence. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 17:54:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A72D106567C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:54:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77C18FC16 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:54:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m71HsV7w030265; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:54:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m71HsVl6002881; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:54:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71HsUeS002880; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:54:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:54:30 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Dieter Message-ID: <20080801175430.GA2860@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080801145822.GC1356@freebie.xs4all.nl> <200808011653.QAA17051@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200808011653.QAA17051@sopwith.solgatos.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:54:34 -0000 Quoting Dieter, who wrote on Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:53:25AM +0100 .. > > Thing is, ports have not been built on -alpha for > > ages now. There is not even a working Alpha machine anymore in the > > FreeBSD.org cluster for ports folks to test on if they were inclined to do > > so. ports have always been tricky on alpha, given the limited # of people > > running FreeBSD on Alpha. > > I've been running NetBSD/Alpha for many years, and beaten a lot of software > into submission on it. I don't recall a single problem that wasn't ILP32 > vs LP64. FreeBSD runs on AMD64, AMD64 is LP64, so what is the big problem > getting apps to run on Alpha once they run on AMD64? Yes, I know that People willing to spend the time, do the work, test the work etc etc. > hostility from the firefox people. > > Firefox in the original Greek means "segmentation fault". ;-) -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 19:27:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76EB1106566B for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:27:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from richardlo@admin.athabascau.ca) Received: from audba.admin.athabascau.ca (audba.admin.athabascau.ca [131.232.4.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A328FC1A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:27:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from richardlo@admin.athabascau.ca) Received: from local.admin.athabascau.ca by local.admin.athabascau.ca (PMDF V6.3-x3 #31462) id <01MXUBQV62F00000TZ@local.admin.athabascau.ca> for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:06:16 -0600 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:06:15 -0600 From: Richard Loken In-reply-to: <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Sender: richardlo@admin.athabascau.ca To: Anton Shterenlikht Message-id: Organization: Athabasca University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Please-Resend: yes Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:27:30 -0000 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > basically if you install port sysutils/bsdstats (just a shell script), > it will send a message from your box monthly to to bsdstats.org > with arch, os version, etc. The idea is to lobby software > producers into supporting their stuff on bsd by showing a large number > of live bsd systems. It is shame that I (and maybe a few thousand other Alpha FreeBSD users) hadn't heard of bsdstats and bsdstats.org five or more years ago. I find it amazing that the open source OS's for Alphas are deemed dead befor HP themselves have finished filling in the grave. Fruther to this non-communication/miscommunication morass, I have never upgraded my PC164 beyond FreeBSD 5 because I was led to believe that X did not work on Alpha version 6. Sheesh... It is my home workstation so I want X on it and, yes, it does help to keep me warm in the winter. As for winning the heating and power consumption war. My work station here in the office is an Alphaserver 4100 with two 600MHz CPU's and 4G of memory running OpenVMS 7.3-1. I am used to the hum and it keeps the office warm. Why VMS? Because I was abandoned by FreeBSD. -- Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father Athabasca University : but you have to earn Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'" ** richardlo@admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 19:39:55 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438E31065670 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:39:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7C88FC19 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:39:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m71Jdawv035554; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:39:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m71JdaJ6001060; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:39:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71JdaLe001059; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:39:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:39:36 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Richard Loken Message-ID: <20080801193936.GA1023@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080801153556.GA83312@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:39:55 -0000 Quoting Richard Loken, who wrote on Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 11:06:15AM -0600 .. > On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > basically if you install port sysutils/bsdstats (just a shell script), > > it will send a message from your box monthly to to bsdstats.org > > with arch, os version, etc. The idea is to lobby software > > producers into supporting their stuff on bsd by showing a large number > > of live bsd systems. > > It is shame that I (and maybe a few thousand other Alpha FreeBSD users) > hadn't heard of bsdstats and bsdstats.org five or more years ago. I find > it amazing that the open source OS's for Alphas are deemed dead befor HP > themselves have finished filling in the grave. What do you expect here? bsdstats or not, the fact that the developer community has moved on to work on modern hardware (like on the amd64 port for example) is not related at all to how many Alphas showed up on bsdstats. Rather, the fact that the volunteer developers that make FreeBSD to what it is have voted with their feet. Nothing that bsdstats or anything else can help here. Wilko -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 19:56:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9206106566C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:56:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.238.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300F68FC16 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ardelean@ww.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from localhost (ardelean@localhost) by servww6.ww.uni-erlangen.de (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id m71JuGV05074; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:56:16 +0200 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:56:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Gheorghe Ardelean To: Wilko Bulte In-Reply-To: <20080801150833.GE1356@freebie.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:56:27 -0000 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, Wilko Bulte wrote: > In all reality FreeBSD on Alpha is with one foot in the grave. > After FreeBSD-6.x goes EOL things are dead. IIRC by the time the decision was made someone said that it can be brought back iff developers are stepping in. In my opinion, the big problem with alpha port was that Andrew left. Hi did a very nice work porting to alphas! > It would have been better (read: it would have made survivability > of the Alpha-port a lot better) if people had voiced their interest/support > a bit earlier.. Yes, but I thing most of the users were happily running their alphas + FreeBSD. If a thing is working ok than we forget about mailing lists etc. But this happens also in other projects. IIRC a few years ago it was also a survey in Debian user community if they should keep the alpha distro. The watermark was set to ~50 users? Are we 50? Maybe yes, but as Wilko says the port needs dedicated developers with time etc. If AMD could manage to sell Athlons and Alphas for the same board (as planned) maybe we have had a better situation. Regards, Gheorghe Ardelean. From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 21:52:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F40B1065670 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:52:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8018FC16 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:51:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m71Lpva00985 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id VAA21718; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:47:30 GMT Message-Id: <200808012147.VAA21718@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:50:43 +0200." <20080801155042.GA1817@freebie.xs4all.nl> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:47:30 +0100 From: Dieter Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:52:00 -0000 > Alpha support is gone from the cvs (well.. svn now) repository for anything > newer than RELENG_6. If you follow the cvs/svn commit messages you will > have seen that. Do you mean that someone took the time to go through and edit out support for Alpha? From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 22:29:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF211065674 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:29:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217E28FC1A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:29:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.34]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F5410730B for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:29:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B7F45C041 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:29:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (dslb-088-067-116-085.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.67.116.85]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E353425E9 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:29:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71MTiPD074345 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:29:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71MTiXO074344 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:29:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20080801091015.GA92710@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <200808011559.PAA01605@sopwith.solgatos.com> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7912/Fri Aug 1 22:16:14 2008 on mail-in-09.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: web browsers for Alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:29:48 -0000 Dieter wrote: > > Being unable to build firefox3 on alpha > > Have they done anything to make firefox LP64 clean? Well, I run firefox3 on FreeBSD/amd64. In the past I've also run firefox2 on OpenBSD/amd64 and, experimentally, on OpenBSD/alpha and OpenBSD/sparc64. (The latter two machines were too slow for serious use, but it did run.) -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 22:46:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C84106566C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:46:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A53808FC1A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:46:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.34]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15566183457 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:46:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-17-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044BB45C0DF for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:46:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (dslb-088-067-116-085.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.67.116.85]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DC33425E3 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:46:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71Mk6Lc074596 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:46:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71Mk6hZ074595 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:46:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:46:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20080731221015.GA35293@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7912/Fri Aug 1 22:16:14 2008 on mail-in-09.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:46:10 -0000 Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > I wonder how many people run FBSD on alpha. I did, until last weekend, when a hard disk died. FreeBSD 5.5 on an AlphaPC164. That machine held my e-mail/news setup, which I've since moved over to an amd64. > if the actual usage is indeed very small, it must be expected > that ports maintainers will stop supporting alpha soon. Your average ports maintainer has never supported alpha beyond accepting patches if you sent them any. > I'm trying to find out if there are people on this list, who, > like myself, are keen to see FBSD supported on alpha > for say 1-3 more years. FreeBSD/alpha is effectively dead. It is vestigially "supported" (= not intentionally damaged) in the 6.x branch. Meanwhile, actual progress on FreeBSD is happening in 8.0-CURRENT. Asking for _somebody_ to support alpha isn't going to accomplish anything. Either invest the work yourself or shut up. The people carrying the weight in FreeBSD development essentially gave up on alpha years ago when (or before) 6.0 was branched. I won't bother reinstalling FreeBSD 6 on my alpha. I might put OpenBSD on it, but then I already have an alpha running OpenBSD. Actually, as far as there are operating systems that still support alpha and are likely to continue doing to, OpenBSD might be your best choice. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 02:16:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E84A106564A for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 02:16:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D6018FC20 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 02:16:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m722Fwlk053951; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:15:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:15:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <200808012147.VAA21718@sopwith.solgatos.com> In-Reply-To: <200808012147.VAA21718@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200808012215.52961.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:15:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/7914/Fri Aug 1 19:16:25 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:16:05 -0000 On Friday 01 August 2008 09:47:30 am Dieter wrote: > > Alpha support is gone from the cvs (well.. svn now) repository for anything > > newer than RELENG_6. If you follow the cvs/svn commit messages you will > > have seen that. > > Do you mean that someone took the time to go through and edit out > support for Alpha? Yes. I did the actual deed in the kernel. I am an Alpha fan myself and have worked on it in the past (it was the first arch besides i386 to get SMPng support for example, and I worked on the DMA issues and got them fixed (I believe) just in time for 6.3). However, many other developers were not willing to expend effort on updating Alpha bits. It didn't help that they couldn't get people to test changes (such as changes to the Linux compat stuff and no one on alpha@ would test the patches). Also, the DMA issues on 6.x with ata(4) basically killed the Alpha ports cluster (that and some hardware issues). Due to all of these things Alpha was retired from 7.0-CURRENT. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 10:03:26 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56CE51065673 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:03:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39E48FC0A for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:03:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m72A3NAo004652; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:03:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m72A3M6O000900; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:03:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m72A3Mbf000899; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:03:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:03:22 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Dieter Message-ID: <20080802100321.GB838@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080801155042.GA1817@freebie.xs4all.nl> <200808012147.VAA21718@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200808012147.VAA21718@sopwith.solgatos.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future for FBSD on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 10:03:26 -0000 Quoting Dieter, who wrote on Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:30PM +0100 .. > > Alpha support is gone from the cvs (well.. svn now) repository for anything > > newer than RELENG_6. If you follow the cvs/svn commit messages you will > > have seen that. > > Do you mean that someone took the time to go through and edit out > support for Alpha? Yes, when you browse the commit logs you will see that on multiple occasions Alpha-specific code has been removed. -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 17:01:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E47C106564A for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 17:01:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7B48FC0C for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 17:01:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.16]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2B1302D5D for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.43]) by mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E17ABD19 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (dslb-088-067-117-223.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.67.117.223]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B2930AC53 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m72H1NXQ019863 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:01:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m72H1N5G019862 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:01:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 17:01:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20080708120738.GA74833@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> <20080712225929.GA22401@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080731222442.GA35346@mech-cluster238.men.bris.ac.uk> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7915/Sat Aug 2 05:45:09 2008 on mail-in-03.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: firefox3 build fails on alpha X-BeenThere: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Alpha List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:01:32 -0000 Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > I'm happy to test firefox3 on alpha, but need to learn about pathes. > > In this particular case it seems that (at least) 2 files > are missing from the distribution: > > xptcinvoke_freebsd_alpha.cpp > xptcstubs_freebsd_alpha.cpp Yes. These need to be created. You have stumbled on a dirty secret: the Mozilla family programs rely on a part that must be ported at the assembly(!) language level to each processor/compiler/(operating system) combination. > I think that whoever created the tar file simply forgot to add the freebsd > files. No, somebody needs to write them. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de