From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 00:28:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43BB616A418 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:28:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E4613C45B for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA54B207E; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:28:48 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E742049; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:28:48 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A8683844B3; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:28:48 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:28:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> (Frank Shute's message of "Fri\, 1 Feb 2008 22\:52\:14 +0000") Message-ID: <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: kayve@sfsu.edu Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:28:57 -0000 Frank Shute writes: > Should be done by default IMO. Used to be until the religious maniacs > started going on about devil worship and other such nonsense. No, it was removed because it was butt-ugly. ASCII art stopped being cool twenty years ago. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 01:01:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777B316A419 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:01:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3094313C4F3 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:01:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JLTF7-0001bc-Km; Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:01:57 +0000 Received: from melon.esperance-linux.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with ESMTP id m1311u46014446; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:01:56 GMT Received: by melon.esperance-linux.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 57220FCAC11; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:01:51 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:01:51 +0000 From: Frank Shute To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20080203010151.GA62332@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Face: *}~{PHnDTzvXPe'wl_-f%!@+r5; VLhb':*DsX%wEOPg\fDrXWQJf|2\,92"DdS%63t*BHDyQ|OWo@Gfjcd72eaN!4%NE{0]p)ihQ1MyFNtWL X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:01:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:01:59 -0000 On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:28:48AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > > Frank Shute writes: > > Should be done by default IMO. Used to be until the religious maniacs > > started going on about devil worship and other such nonsense. > > No, it was removed because it was butt-ugly. ASCII art stopped being > cool twenty years ago. And the ascii Freebsd that it was replaced with is beautiful?! And cool?!! I like the ascii beastie and you've got no taste ;) If it were put to a vote, the beast would win by a country mile amongst those users with taste! -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 03:36:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F7716A417 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 03:36:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6DA3113C459 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 03:36:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 13549 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2008 03:36:29 -0000 Received: from adsl181.dyn229.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.229.181) by smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 3 Feb 2008 03:36:26 -0000 Message-ID: <47A536B3.8000800@pacific.net.sg> Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:36:19 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KAYVEN RIESE References: <47A30E1D.4030609@pacific.net.sg> <47A3B9A3.9080505@pacific.net.sg> <4362.76.20.240.110.1201918749.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <200802020333.UAA03117@lariat.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Brett Glass , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft buys Yahoo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:36:32 -0000 Hi, a short 'description' what will happen: http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2008/02/bam-borg-makes-yahoo-its-bitch.html Is it really a fake? Erich KAYVEN RIESE wrote: > > > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 07:19 PM 2/1/2008, jerry@syslog.org wrote: >> >>> I've been through many M&A deals. MS will be able to successfully argue >>> that the MS+Yahoo! combo does not constitute a monopoly, since: >>> 1) the share of search of the combined companies does not equal that of >>> it's competitor, Google (source: >>> http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3627122) >>> 2) The combination of MS and Yahoo! does not preclude any >>> search/portal/email competitor from entering the market. >> >> Anyone who thinks it doesn't constitute a monopoly hasn't looked at the >> typical user's browser window. Every Windows PC sold today comes with >> MSN as the start page and the Yahoo! toolbar (which claims to remove >> spyware, but spies on you itself and refuses to be removed) >> pre-installed. >> >> Combining the two will hold the average user, who doesn't even know >> how to change the browser start page and can't tell the Yahoo toolbar >> from the URL bar, completely hostage. > > The news called it "antitrust ISSUES," which is interesting. Obviously, > IMHO, Google's 59-62% (I am still betting they got this 3% boost since > Dec. 2007) search market is clear counterindication to TOTAL > monopoly, but nonetheless, depending on how one defines the "market," > there is some concern. I think, though, that the obvious trend will > be further marriages of broadcast media (2009 mandate of digital > television signals as one indicator) and internet/computing sector > corporations such as the past merger of AOL/Time Warner. Therefore, > I guess I would tend to agree that antitrust SEEMS unlikely (but I > must acknowledge total ignorance of actual legal technicalities > on the matter and lack of J.D.). > > On Charlie Rose last night they were discussing the matter, and it > seems the BIG question is whether Yahoo will acquiesce to the takeover. > To do so would cut against the culture war of Redmond and Silicon > Valley. > >>> All of this assumes a few things: >>> 1) Yahoo's shareholders believe the deal represents a good value >> >> Ironically, it's Microsoft shareholders who think it's a bad deal. >> Microsoft's stock dropped like a rock when the offer was announced, >> while Yahoo! stock went up. > > Isn't that normal stock behaviors for takeover? > >> --Brett Glass > > *----------------------------------------------------------* > Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) > (415) 902 5513 cellular > http://kayve.net > Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org > *----------------------------------------------------------* > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 04:28:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C4516A41A for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 04:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from mx-out-05.forthnet.gr (mx-out.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3E913C44B for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 04:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from mx-av-01.forthnet.gr (mx-av.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.27]) by mx-out-05.forthnet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m134F3kg019519; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:15:03 +0200 Received: from MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr (mx-in-05.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.32]) by mx-av-01.forthnet.gr (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m134F3D9010530; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:15:03 +0200 Received: from kobe.laptop (ppp47-170.adsl.forthnet.gr [62.1.64.170]) by MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m134F24J018660; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:15:03 +0200 Authentication-Results: MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr smtp.mail=keramida@ceid.upatras.gr; spf=neutral Authentication-Results: MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr header.from=keramida@ceid.upatras.gr; sender-id=neutral Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m134F25g005354; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:15:02 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m134F1v5005353; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:15:01 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:15:01 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Allen Message-ID: <20080203041501.GB5298@kobe.laptop> References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <1201904427.7535.2.camel@Caffiend.org> <1201945070.7535.4.camel@Caffiend.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1201945070.7535.4.camel@Caffiend.org> Cc: freebsd-chat Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:28:10 -0000 On 2008-02-02 04:37, Allen wrote: >>> I love how FreeBSD does things like this for historical reasons, I >>> love reading about the History, which is why I bought that DVD "20 >>> years of Berkeley UNIX" with Marshall. Great DVD and very good if >>> you're a UNIX history buff. >> >> sounds like a neat vid. where'd you get it? > > FreeBSD mall, it's awesome, and Marshall is really funny too :) He is an amazing fellow and he certainly knows how to speak to an audience. I got the video in EuroBSDCon 2006, and it is one of the DVDs I'm very happy to have watched :) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 04:28:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 099A416A417 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 04:28:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from mx-out-05.forthnet.gr (mx-out.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CC913C457 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 04:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from mx-av-05.forthnet.gr (mx-av.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.27]) by mx-out-05.forthnet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m134D8J1018957 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:13:08 +0200 Received: from MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr (mx-in-05.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.32]) by mx-av-05.forthnet.gr (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m134D8kw020469 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:13:08 +0200 Received: from kobe.laptop (ppp47-170.adsl.forthnet.gr [62.1.64.170]) by MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m134D5Qj015111 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:13:07 +0200 Authentication-Results: MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr smtp.mail=keramida@ceid.upatras.gr; spf=neutral Authentication-Results: MX-IN-05.forthnet.gr header.from=keramida@ceid.upatras.gr; sender-id=neutral Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m134D5oO005331 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:13:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m134D5XD005330 for freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:13:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 06:13:05 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Message-ID: <20080203041304.GA5298@kobe.laptop> References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080203010151.GA62332@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080203010151.GA62332@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Cc: Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:28:11 -0000 On 2008-02-03 01:01, Frank Shute wrote: >On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:28:48AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: >>Frank Shute writes: >>> Should be done by default IMO. Used to be until the religious maniacs >>> started going on about devil worship and other such nonsense. >> >> No, it was removed because it was butt-ugly. ASCII art stopped being >> cool twenty years ago. > > And the ascii Freebsd that it was replaced with is beautiful?! And > cool?!! > > I like the ascii beastie and you've got no taste ;) > > If it were put to a vote, the beast would win by a country mile amongst > those users with taste! Taste... it's always 'taste' in a way or another. Since there *is* an option, which interested people can tweak to their heart's desire, and the source *IS* *OPEN* for anyone to modify on their own if the option is not enough, can we drop the ad hominem's and move on with actually *hacking* FreeBSD to make it better? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 07:33:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F0916A417 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 07:33:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C4B13C447 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 07:33:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JLZLv-0006j9-Mp; Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:33:23 +0000 Received: from melon.esperance-linux.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with ESMTP id m137XMkm014470; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 07:33:23 GMT Received: by melon.esperance-linux.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 99768FCAC11; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 07:33:17 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 07:33:17 +0000 From: Frank Shute To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-ID: <20080203073317.GA64281@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080203010151.GA62332@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20080203041304.GA5298@kobe.laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080203041304.GA5298@kobe.laptop> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Face: *}~{PHnDTzvXPe'wl_-f%!@+r5; VLhb':*DsX%wEOPg\fDrXWQJf|2\,92"DdS%63t*BHDyQ|OWo@Gfjcd72eaN!4%NE{0]p)ihQ1MyFNtWL X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:33:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:33:28 -0000 On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 06:13:05AM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > On 2008-02-03 01:01, Frank Shute wrote: > >On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:28:48AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > >>Frank Shute writes: > >>> Should be done by default IMO. Used to be until the religious maniacs > >>> started going on about devil worship and other such nonsense. > >> > >> No, it was removed because it was butt-ugly. ASCII art stopped being > >> cool twenty years ago. > > > > And the ascii Freebsd that it was replaced with is beautiful?! And > > cool?!! > > > > I like the ascii beastie and you've got no taste ;) > > > > If it were put to a vote, the beast would win by a country mile amongst > > those users with taste! > > Taste... it's always 'taste' in a way or another. > > Since there *is* an option, which interested people can tweak to their > heart's desire, and the source *IS* *OPEN* for anyone to modify on their > own if the option is not enough, can we drop the ad hominem's and move > on with actually *hacking* FreeBSD to make it better? I thought chat@ was the place to hang out when you'd had enough of "hacking"? As for taste, it's due to a lack of taste that we're now lumbered with a sex toy as a logo. If people put half the thought into matters of taste and decency that they do to hacking, the project would be in better shape. Let's remind ourselves that some twit (now *that's* an ad hominem!) actually bothered to write a patch to get rid of beastie from the boot loader in the first place. Why not the option to have the text *instead* of the beast to keep the religious fundamentalists happy? No, that would be too sensible. Keep the text as a monument to somebody's stupidity and a project gone awry....and the bloody sex toy. -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 11:50:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5EF16A417 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:50:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from mx-out-01.forthnet.gr (mx-out.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.104]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C66C13C474 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:50:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from mx-av-03.forthnet.gr (mx-av.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.27]) by mx-out-01.forthnet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m13BoHMY022112 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:50:17 +0200 Received: from MX-IN-01.forthnet.gr (mx-in-01.forthnet.gr [193.92.150.23]) by mx-av-03.forthnet.gr (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m13BoHDq012063 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:50:17 +0200 Received: from kobe.laptop (ppp47-170.adsl.forthnet.gr [62.1.64.170]) by MX-IN-01.forthnet.gr (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m13BoGu4021693 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:50:17 +0200 Authentication-Results: MX-IN-01.forthnet.gr smtp.mail=keramida@ceid.upatras.gr; spf=neutral Authentication-Results: MX-IN-01.forthnet.gr header.from=keramida@ceid.upatras.gr; sender-id=neutral Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m13BoFEG002308 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:50:15 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m13BoELp002307 for freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:50:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 13:50:14 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Message-ID: <20080203115013.GC2075@kobe.laptop> References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080203010151.GA62332@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20080203041304.GA5298@kobe.laptop> <20080203073317.GA64281@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080203073317.GA64281@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Cc: Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:50:21 -0000 On 2008-02-03 07:33, Frank Shute wrote: >On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 06:13:05AM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >>On 2008-02-03 01:01, Frank Shute wrote: >>>On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:28:48AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: >>>>Frank Shute writes: >>>>> Should be done by default IMO. Used to be until the religious maniacs >>>>> started going on about devil worship and other such nonsense. >>>> >>>> No, it was removed because it was butt-ugly. ASCII art stopped being >>>> cool twenty years ago. >>> >>> And the ascii Freebsd that it was replaced with is beautiful?! And >>> cool?!! >>> >>> I like the ascii beastie and you've got no taste ;) >>> >>> If it were put to a vote, the beast would win by a country mile amongst >>> those users with taste! >> >> Taste... it's always 'taste' in a way or another. >> >> Since there *is* an option, which interested people can tweak to their >> heart's desire, and the source *IS* *OPEN* for anyone to modify on their >> own if the option is not enough, can we drop the ad hominem's and move >> on with actually *hacking* FreeBSD to make it better? > > I thought chat@ was the place to hang out when you'd had enough of > "hacking"? It is. I just thought the tone of the last exchanges started being `too much' even for chat. FreeBSD is famous as a project, including both the developers *and* the user community, for its civilized attitude and the maturity of email exchanges. We don't really *need* all that personal attack stuff :/ > As for taste, it's due to a lack of taste that we're now lumbered with > a sex toy as a logo. I don't feel particularly well about the new logo either, but that's a bit besides the point. I am not using FreeBSD because I like its current logo or because I like the style of monospaced text in the web pages (I don't, there are horrendous CSS bugs in the web site, which I have often complained about). I am using FreeBSD because I like the way it works, I like the quality of its source code base, and most importantly: I like the people ;) > Keep the text as a monument to somebody's stupidity and a project gone > awry... and the bloody sex toy. I suppose we should be thankful that the `sex toy' doesn't render well in ASCII art. Now that would be fun ... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 3 11:59:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA36216A417 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:59:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC41113C4EC for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:59:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89946208F; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:59:37 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C545208C; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:59:37 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 68287844B3; Sun, 3 Feb 2008 12:59:37 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Giorgos Keramidas References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <1201904427.7535.2.camel@Caffiend.org> <1201945070.7535.4.camel@Caffiend.org> <20080203041501.GB5298@kobe.laptop> Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:59:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20080203041501.GB5298@kobe.laptop> (Giorgos Keramidas's message of "Sun\, 3 Feb 2008 06\:15\:01 +0200") Message-ID: <86ir16mes6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Allen , freebsd-chat Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:59:46 -0000 Giorgos Keramidas writes: > Allen writes: > > FreeBSD mall, it's awesome, and Marshall is really funny too :) > He is an amazing fellow and he certainly knows how to speak to an > audience. Yes, he's a great guy, but his name is still Kirk... DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 01:48:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D9D16A419 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 01:48:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron3.sfsu.edu (iron3.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.128]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDD613C43E for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 01:48:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) X-onepass: IPPSC X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAJZPp0eC1Apk/2dsb2JhbACtGg Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron3.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2008 17:48:33 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.3HF100) with ESMTP id 2008020417483250-2815 ; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:48:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <47A30E1D.4030609@pacific.net.sg> <47A3B9A3.9080505@pacific.net.sg> <4362.76.20.240.110.1201918749.squirrel@www.stelesys.com> <200802020333.UAA03117@lariat.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF100 | December 5, 2007) at 02/04/2008 17:48:32, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3|September 26, 2007) at 02/04/2008 17:48:33, Serialize complete at 02/04/2008 17:48:33 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Erich Dollansky Subject: Re: Microsoft buys Yahoo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:48:34 -0000 On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, KAYVEN RIESE wrote: > On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 07:19 PM 2/1/2008, jerry@syslog.org wrote: >> >>> I've been through many M&A deals. MS will be able to successfully argue >>> that the MS+Yahoo! combo does not constitute a monopoly, since: >>> 1) the share of search of the combined companies does not equal that of >>> it's competitor, Google (source: >>> http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3627122) >>> 2) The combination of MS and Yahoo! does not preclude any >>> search/portal/email competitor from entering the market. >> >> Anyone who thinks it doesn't constitute a monopoly hasn't looked at the >> typical user's browser window. Every Windows PC sold today comes with >> MSN as the start page and the Yahoo! toolbar (which claims to remove >> spyware, but spies on you itself and refuses to be removed) pre-installed. >> >> Combining the two will hold the average user, who doesn't even know >> how to change the browser start page and can't tell the Yahoo toolbar >> from the URL bar, completely hostage. > > The news called it "antitrust ISSUES," which is interesting. Obviously, Katie Couric just told me that Google is filing briefs in argument that a Yahoo buyout by Microsoft violates SOME sort of antitrust issues. > IMHO, Google's 59-62% (I am still betting they got this 3% boost since Dec. > 2007) search market is clear counterindication to TOTAL > monopoly, but nonetheless, depending on how one defines the "market," > there is some concern. I think, though, that the obvious trend will > be further marriages of broadcast media (2009 mandate of digital > television signals as one indicator) and internet/computing sector > corporations such as the past merger of AOL/Time Warner. Therefore, > I guess I would tend to agree that antitrust SEEMS unlikely (but I > must acknowledge total ignorance of actual legal technicalities > on the matter and lack of J.D.). > > On Charlie Rose last night they were discussing the matter, and it > seems the BIG question is whether Yahoo will acquiesce to the takeover. > To do so would cut against the culture war of Redmond and Silicon > Valley. > >>> All of this assumes a few things: >>> 1) Yahoo's shareholders believe the deal represents a good value >> >> Ironically, it's Microsoft shareholders who think it's a bad deal. >> Microsoft's stock dropped like a rock when the offer was announced, >> while Yahoo! stock went up. > > Isn't that normal stock behaviors for takeover? > >> --Brett Glass > > *----------------------------------------------------------* > Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) > (415) 902 5513 cellular > http://kayve.net > Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org > *----------------------------------------------------------* > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 09:30:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB5C16A417 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2E513C44B for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m159UZdK013688; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:30:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id m159UZg8013687; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:30:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:30:35 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200802050930.m159UZg8013687@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20080203115013.GC2075@kobe.laptop> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:30:36 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:30:38 -0000 Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > Frank Shute wrote: > > Keep the text as a monument to somebody's stupidity and a project gone > > awry... and the bloody sex toy. > > I suppose we should be thankful that the `sex toy' doesn't render well > in ASCII art. Now that would be fun ... No need for ASCII art ... ;-) What do you think about this screen shot? http://www.secnetix.de/olli/tmp/vloader.png Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd PI: int f[9814],b,c=9814,g,i;long a=1e4,d,e,h; main(){for(;b=c,c-=14;i=printf("%04d",e+d/a),e=d%a) while(g=--b*2)d=h*b+a*(i?f[b]:a/5),h=d/--g,f[b]=d%g;} From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 10:40:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA4C16A419 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:40:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E87613C43E for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 10:40:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39332093; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:40:38 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB94208C; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:40:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 43D31844A0; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:40:38 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Oliver Fromme References: <200802050930.m159UZg8013687@lurza.secnetix.de> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:40:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200802050930.m159UZg8013687@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Tue\, 5 Feb 2008 10\:30\:35 +0100 \(CET\)") Message-ID: <86bq6vznx5.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 10:40:51 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > No need for ASCII art ... ;-) > What do you think about this screen shot? > > http://www.secnetix.de/olli/tmp/vloader.png This is brilliant! Send patches! :) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 13:32:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1686116A419 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:32:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEAC13C45D for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 13:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m15DW2Yb020690; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:32:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id m15DW2WU020689; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:32:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:32:02 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200802051332.m15DW2WU020689@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, des@des.no In-Reply-To: <86bq6vznx5.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:32:03 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:32:07 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Oliver Fromme writes: > > No need for ASCII art ... ;-) > > What do you think about this screen shot? > > > > http://www.secnetix.de/olli/tmp/vloader.png > > This is brilliant! Send patches! :) Does that mean you're volunteering to be my mentor? :) The patches are on my hard disk. I've been working on it every now and then, just for fun. I'm going to clean them up and commit them to my P4 branch on perforce.freebsd.org at //depot/user/olli/boot (will take a few days, I think). But to go any further I need some help from a committer. There are a few code design decisions that I cannot do on my own. BTW, my patches add a few FICL words (forth commands) to the loader (i386 and amd64 only). They implement simple graphics commands (dots, lines, triangles, circles), text output using proportional fonts loaded from the boot device, and display of PCX images. The above screen shot is simply a PCX background image containing the logo, and some text for the menu at the top. Very simple. Currently only 16 color standard VGA modes are supported (4 bit depth), but that should be sufficient for a start. Those who want Beastie back can replace the background image with one showing the BSD daemon, of course. It's just a matter of replacing the PCX file. ASCII art was yesterday. ;-) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 15:14:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EEFF16A417 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:14:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE19D13C447 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:14:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A215D207F; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:14:00 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2660C207E; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:14:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 087AC844A6; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:14:00 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Oliver Fromme References: <200802051332.m15DW2WU020689@lurza.secnetix.de> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:13:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200802051332.m15DW2WU020689@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Tue\, 5 Feb 2008 14\:32\:02 +0100 \(CET\)") Message-ID: <86zlufwi4o.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:14:14 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > Oliver Fromme writes: > > > http://www.secnetix.de/olli/tmp/vloader.png > > This is brilliant! Send patches! :) > Does that mean you're volunteering to be my mentor? :) It means, at the very least, that I have worked on similar code in the kernel (not loader) before, and that I therefore feel competent to at least look over your code. Considering your track record, I'm surprised you haven't found someone to mentor you already. I still remember using QPEG / QPV many years ago; if you agree not to ask me what I used it for, I'll agree not to ask you what you wrote it for :P > BTW, my patches add a few FICL words (forth commands) to the loader > (i386 and amd64 only). They implement simple graphics commands (dots, > lines, triangles, circles), text output using proportional fonts > loaded from the boot device, and display of PCX images. The above > screen shot is simply a PCX background image containing the logo, and > some text for the menu at the top. Very simple. Currently only 16 > color standard VGA modes are supported (4 bit depth), but that should > be sufficient for a start. The kernel splash code supports both BMP (courtesy of Mike Smith, IIRC) and PCX (courtesy of yours truly). I haven't looked at it in years, but I've used it on and off to add splash screens to various FreeBSD-based turn-key solutions I've been involved in. Hey, how about PNG support? Know someone we could ask? ;) It would be very nice if you could generalize this to allow displaying kernel boot messages over a graphical background; I'm not sure that's possible with our current graphical console code. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 15:33:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E71C16A419 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:33:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1889013C457 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:33:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15602085; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:33:42 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384052084; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:33:42 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1A60C844B3; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:33:42 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Oliver Fromme References: <200802051332.m15DW2WU020689@lurza.secnetix.de> <86zlufwi4o.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:33:42 +0100 In-Reply-To: <86zlufwi4o.fsf@ds4.des.no> ("Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rg?= =?utf-8?Q?rav=22's?= message of "Tue\, 05 Feb 2008 16\:13\:59 +0100") Message-ID: <86myqfwh7t.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:33:51 -0000 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > The kernel splash code supports both BMP (courtesy of Mike Smith, IIRC) > and PCX (courtesy of yours truly). I've written a number of PCX decoders over the years, BTW, and I remember that I once wrote a codec for a stripped-down version which supported only single-plane 8-bit color. It turns out that for that specific case, which was the most common at the time, you could achieve considerably better compression by dropping the padding at the end of each scan line, and allowing runs to cross from the end of one scan line to the beginning of the next (with due consideration given to not exceeding the width of the run length counter). Of course, RLE pales in comparison with most other lossless algorithms, even contemporary ones such as the LZ family. Considering that an LZ codec can be implemented with a fairly small amount of code and requires a fairly small amount of memory for the dictionary, and how poorly RLE performs with anything more complex than line drawings, it is surprising that ZSoft even considered it, much less used it in their finished product. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 16:20:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C4716A49A for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:20:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69EFD13C465 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:20:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m15GK0Cd026885; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:20:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id m15GK00a026884; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:20:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:20:00 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200802051620.m15GK00a026884@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, des@des.no In-Reply-To: <86zlufwi4o.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:20:03 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:20:06 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Oliver Fromme writes: > > Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes: > > > Oliver Fromme writes: > > > > http://www.secnetix.de/olli/tmp/vloader.png > > > This is brilliant! Send patches! :) > > Does that mean you're volunteering to be my mentor? :) > > It means, at the very least, that I have worked on similar code in the > kernel (not loader) before, and that I therefore feel competent to at > least look over your code. Great! I'll need to clean up the code a bit and do some style(9) conversions first, then I'll put it in P4. > Considering your track record, I'm surprised you haven't found someone > to mentor you already. Well, I didn't look for one so far. :-) > > BTW, my patches add a few FICL words (forth commands) to the loader > > (i386 and amd64 only). They implement simple graphics commands (dots, > > lines, triangles, circles), text output using proportional fonts > > loaded from the boot device, and display of PCX images. [...] > > The kernel splash code supports both BMP (courtesy of Mike Smith, IIRC) > and PCX (courtesy of yours truly). I haven't looked at it in years, but > I've used it on and off to add splash screens to various FreeBSD-based > turn-key solutions I've been involved in. > > Hey, how about PNG support? Know someone we could ask? ;) heh :-) I wish there was a way to update my email address in RFC2083 ... that one doesn't work anymore. Speaking about image file formats: My intention was to get the code working as quickly as possible, and PCX was pretty easiest format to implement that supported 4 bit depth. The whole decode + display loop is 20 lines of C. It's true, the RLE compression of PCX is pathetic. But that really doesn't matter much. The background image of that screen shot is an 80 KB PCX file, which really isn't all that much (and it doesn't take up any RAM after it has been decoded and written to the VGA frame buffer). Adding PNG support would be significantly more complicated and increase the size of the loader binary. I don't think it's worth it. > It would be very nice if you could generalize this to allow displaying > kernel boot messages over a graphical background; I'm not sure that's > possible with our current graphical console code. I don't think it can be done currently, but it would be possible to implement. I haven't looked at the syscons code in a long time, though. Right now my focus is on the loader. > I've written a number of PCX decoders over the years, BTW, and I > remember that I once wrote a codec for a stripped-down version which > supported only single-plane 8-bit color. It turns out that for that > specific case, which was the most common at the time, you could achieve > considerably better compression by dropping the padding at the end of > each scan line, and allowing runs to cross from the end of one scan line > to the beginning of the next (with due consideration given to not > exceeding the width of the run length counter). In fact my PCX decoder supports that; runs crossing planes (standard) as well as runs crossing scan line boundaries (non-standard). In fact I have to admit that it currently doesn't support padding at all. Well, ppmtopcx never generates any padding, so I didn't care. I'll try to fix that, though. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "C++ is the only current language making COBOL look good." -- Bertrand Meyer From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 5 17:34:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5A616A4DF for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:34:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5508C13C457 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:34:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C48207F; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:34:45 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA298207E; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:34:44 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C6223844A6; Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:34:44 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Oliver Fromme References: <200802051620.m15GK00a026884@lurza.secnetix.de> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:34:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200802051620.m15GK00a026884@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Tue\, 5 Feb 2008 17\:20\:00 +0100 \(CET\)") Message-ID: <8663x3wbm3.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:34:53 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > I don't think it can be done currently, but it would be possible to > implement. I haven't looked at the syscons code in a long time, > though. Right now my focus is on the loader. If you say the magic words (something like "I'm willing to work on syscons once I'm done with the loader"), I'll have your application in core@'s inbox in a New York minute :) > In fact my PCX decoder supports that; runs crossing planes (standard) > as well as runs crossing scan line boundaries (non-standard). In fact > I have to admit that it currently doesn't support padding at all. > Well, ppmtopcx never generates any padding, so I didn't care. I'll > try to fix that, though. Hmm, the spec calls for padding each scan line to the nearest multiple of 16 bits IIRC, but it's been a long time. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 6 08:38:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B0316A41A for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:38:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57A313C45B for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:38:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m168cM3B055277; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:38:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id m168cMZM055275; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:38:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <200802060838.m168cMZM055275@lurza.secnetix.de> To: phs@deadc0.de (Philip Schulz) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:38:21 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <95349A98-29DD-4611-A212-C7C41AA6EBBE@deadc0.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 06 Feb 2008 09:38:23 +0100 (CET) Cc: des@des.no, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:38:40 -0000 Philip Schulz wrote: > Can you also make it accessible for the general public, e.g. > through a patch against -CURRENT? Or is the code in P4 open > for the public? I have no idea how the whole P4 business > works, but I have always been under the impression that it > is only available for a selected few. In the past the Perforce repository was mirrored to a cvsup server which was publicly accessible, but that service seems to be unavailable currently (someone wrote there are hardware problems, but I don't know the details). Anyway, I'll make a tarball and put it on a webserver for public download. I hope to get around to doing it on the weekend. I also intend to write some documentation; that's probably the biggest missing item right now. So far I've only documented the font format [1]. Best regards Oliver [1] If anyone's interested: http://www.secnetix.de/olli/FreeBSD/vloader/fontformat.txt -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "To this day, many C programmers believe that 'strong typing' just means pounding extra hard on the keyboard." -- Peter van der Linden From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 6 09:14:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DECC16A419 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:14:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB44313C442 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:14:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m169EUVB056101; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:14:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id m169EUAL056100; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:14:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:14:30 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200802060914.m169EUAL056100@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, des@des.no In-Reply-To: <8663x3wbm3.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:14:31 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 09:14:34 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Oliver Fromme writes: > > I don't think it can be done currently, but it would be possible to > > implement. I haven't looked at the syscons code in a long time, > > though. Right now my focus is on the loader. > > If you say the magic words (something like "I'm willing to work on > syscons once I'm done with the loader"), I'll have your application in > core@'s inbox in a New York minute :) I'm afraid I can't make any promises because I have a real job and other duties. I can certainly have a look at the syscons code. But it depends on the amount of my free time what I can do. It also depends on the current state of the code. Actually I was quite familiar with the syscons code in 4-current about 10 years ago (see PR kern/15436, for example). However, I think the code has undergone some significant changes in the meantime. So I can say that I'm willing to look at the syscons code, but right now I can't promise to actually do any useful work. :-) > > In fact my PCX decoder supports that; runs crossing planes (standard) > > as well as runs crossing scan line boundaries (non-standard). In fact > > I have to admit that it currently doesn't support padding at all. > > Well, ppmtopcx never generates any padding, so I didn't care. I'll > > try to fix that, though. > > Hmm, the spec calls for padding each scan line to the nearest multiple > of 16 bits IIRC, but it's been a long time. The spec is a little vague in several places. I think it says that padding is allowed but not required. Certainly the ppmtopcx tool never generates any padding: $ ppmmake black 1 1 | ppmtopcx | wc -c 129 That's 128 bytes for the header and 1 byte for the actual bitmap. Gimp is the same, it doesn't generate padding, but it's not able to create 16 color PCX files; it always creates files with a 256 color palette or truecolor, so you have to cycle the file through pcxtoppm|ppmtopcx if you want to use the image in a 16 color mode. The smallest PCX file gimp can produce is 898 bytes: 128 for the header, 1 byte for the bitmap, 1 marker byte (0x0c) for the extended palette, and 768 bytes for the 256-color palette (256 * 3 bytes RGB). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd (On the statement print "42 monkeys" + "1 snake":) By the way, both perl and Python get this wrong. Perl gives 43 and Python gives "42 monkeys1 snake", when the answer is clearly "41 monkeys and 1 fat snake". -- Jim Fulton From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 6 21:39:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95C5516A41B for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:39:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC5F13C458 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:39:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JM37S-0002Vi-7I; Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:20:26 +0000 Received: from melon.esperance-linux.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with ESMTP id m14EppF3019489; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 14:51:51 GMT Received: by melon.esperance-linux.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 34A5CFCAC11; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 14:51:46 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 14:51:46 +0000 From: Frank Shute To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-ID: <20080204145146.GA69718@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Giorgos Keramidas , freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org References: <200802012123.m11LNV3s061230@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080201225214.GA57322@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <863asaopbz.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080203010151.GA62332@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20080203041304.GA5298@kobe.laptop> <20080203073317.GA64281@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20080203115013.GC2075@kobe.laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080203115013.GC2075@kobe.laptop> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Face: *}~{PHnDTzvXPe'wl_-f%!@+r5; VLhb':*DsX%wEOPg\fDrXWQJf|2\,92"DdS%63t*BHDyQ|OWo@Gfjcd72eaN!4%NE{0]p)ihQ1MyFNtWL X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:51:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: why is it called /boot/beastie.4th ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:39:46 -0000 On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:50:14PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > On 2008-02-03 07:33, Frank Shute wrote: > >On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 06:13:05AM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > >>On 2008-02-03 01:01, Frank Shute wrote: > >>>On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:28:48AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > >>>>Frank Shute writes: > >>>>> Should be done by default IMO. Used to be until the religious maniacs > >>>>> started going on about devil worship and other such nonsense. > >>>> > >>>> No, it was removed because it was butt-ugly. ASCII art stopped being > >>>> cool twenty years ago. > >>> > >>> And the ascii Freebsd that it was replaced with is beautiful?! And > >>> cool?!! > >>> > >>> I like the ascii beastie and you've got no taste ;) > >>> > >>> If it were put to a vote, the beast would win by a country mile amongst > >>> those users with taste! > >> > >> Taste... it's always 'taste' in a way or another. > >> > >> Since there *is* an option, which interested people can tweak to their > >> heart's desire, and the source *IS* *OPEN* for anyone to modify on their > >> own if the option is not enough, can we drop the ad hominem's and move > >> on with actually *hacking* FreeBSD to make it better? > > > > I thought chat@ was the place to hang out when you'd had enough of > > "hacking"? > > It is. I just thought the tone of the last exchanges started being `too > much' even for chat. FreeBSD is famous as a project, including both the > developers *and* the user community, for its civilized attitude and the > maturity of email exchanges. We don't really *need* all that personal > attack stuff :/ I didn't mean it to be a personal attack, it was done firmly with tongue in cheek. I'm quite happy to blast KDE/Emacs users for a lack of taste too :) I don't like making excuses, but I'm suffering from quite severe depression ATM and with all the drugs I'm taking, I'm lucky if I can string anything coherent together without appearing nasty. > > > As for taste, it's due to a lack of taste that we're now lumbered with > > a sex toy as a logo. > > I don't feel particularly well about the new logo either, but that's a > bit besides the point. > > I am not using FreeBSD because I like its current logo or because I like > the style of monospaced text in the web pages (I don't, there are > horrendous CSS bugs in the web site, which I have often complained > about). It's the content that bothers me. I wanted to find motherboards supported by AMD64 on the site the other day and the only way I could find the page was by googling. > > I am using FreeBSD because I like the way it works, I like the quality > of its source code base, and most importantly: I like the people ;) Sure. I have to take this moment to thank you for your particularly informative answers on questions@. > > > Keep the text as a monument to somebody's stupidity and a project gone > > awry... and the bloody sex toy. > > I suppose we should be thankful that the `sex toy' doesn't render well > in ASCII art. Now that would be fun ... If it rendered well in ascii, I'd be all for it! But it doesn't render well in anything unless blown up to a large size which is half it's problem. I thought it was meant to be used on letterheads and such like but my 600dpi mono laser isn't going to like it and my 19" LCD doesn't like it much as rendered on the homepage of the website. Whereas beastie....but I'm going over old ground. -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 9 14:45:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99F616A420 for ; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 14:45:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DE513C4D5 for ; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 14:45:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-170-114-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.170.114.32] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JNqwz-0006wo-Tn for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:45:06 -0500 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 29469-1202568343; Sat, 09 Feb 2008 08:45:43 -0600 Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 08:45:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: tool to organize all CVS commit logs to make one ChangeLog? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:45:07 -0000 Anyone know of a tool that will look at CVS commit messages to make a single change list? It would need to list the file names changed (and maybe revision numbers) and include the username of the committer, the date (and maybe time). It would need to consolidate identical commit messages (from different files committed at same time). And put them in order by date. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 9 15:01:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC43116A419 for ; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:01:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from smtpoutm.mac.com (smtpoutm.mac.com [17.148.16.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73FB13C474 for ; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:01:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (asmtp001-s [10.150.69.64]) by smtpoutm.mac.com (Xserve/smtpout007/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id m19Ekgsu023875; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 06:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-68-45-217-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [68.45.217.80]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/asmtp001/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id m19EkbnY001495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 9 Feb 2008 06:46:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5B566606-C65A-44A9-BD1E-C8FCF439DEC0@mac.com> From: Lawrence Sica To: "Jeremy C. Reed" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 09:46:37 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tool to organize all CVS commit logs to make one ChangeLog? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:01:49 -0000 On Feb 9, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Anyone know of a tool that will look at CVS commit messages to make a > single change list? > > It would need to list the file names changed (and maybe revision > numbers) > and include the username of the committer, the date (and maybe time). > > It would need to consolidate identical commit messages (from different > files committed at same time). > > And put them in order by date. > rcs2log. It's what I use to generate a CHANGELOG. --Larry > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 9 20:01:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D642716A494 for ; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:01:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986FB13C45A for ; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:01:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECEC2082; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:00:59 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821FC207E; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:00:59 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6707A84449; Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:00:59 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:00:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Jeremy C. Reed's message of "Sat\, 9 Feb 2008 08\:45\:43 -0600 \(CST\)") Message-ID: <863as1c32c.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tool to organize all CVS commit logs to make one ChangeLog? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:01:07 -0000 "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > Anyone know of a tool that will look at CVS commit messages to make a > single change list? ISTR there is one included with the GNU autotools, or at least mentioned in the automake documentation as the recommended way to generate the ChangeLog (required by GNU packaging guidelines) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no