From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 04:37:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938E21065686 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 04:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dimitar.vassilev@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636678FC08 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 04:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dimitar.vassilev@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1860172wfg.7 for ; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:37:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=leX1Ys9vWuTJqhwYpvleek0idCkkrX2//zYKlOzmzj4=; b=lyVqlUoRSmR0rHv/w/Y69sJorCfpFsQFSFIEP2R0X0TSbJX1bs/386A6uWZRTSaH4d uOJQSaCasDGYvrvDnWR4vu7a9ekG35r808M9bWKkTNLoR6m1nWSo4S/zTauAsTYKR5aq GFnicLwnOyDwtNKH/bDX73uSFgaxSWdQWwSwg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=L69pPpimQUKvaUM9wR+J5CA8QhfKI/D/0u5PJYqepVktRcAf4hnIrawcvsgTYaWipm nD6sKPC5a1dOtRqkdpfQfoqaE/OO8rZP7CIHpKTBnzuexrj9QwIeuTxoR5OQpGoyZ6Qy KT2bmSCtkPUEMKRmogMhuWrbo3JEgb5sC5NsE= Received: by 10.142.213.9 with SMTP id l9mr1662699wfg.69.1226205438275; Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:37:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.101.19 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:37:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <59adc1a0811082037u29594053wd9436bd78c963eb3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 06:37:18 +0200 From: "Dimitar Vasilev" To: "Larry Rosenman" In-Reply-To: <005401c941e6$5e660e80$1b322b80$@org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080727125413.GG1345@garage.freebsd.pl> <86tzd490qx.fsf@gmail.com> <20080829074738.GB3026@garage.freebsd.pl> <20081031201814.GA54286@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <73175263-4A61-4C87-9BF3-69ECC2CC0D17@mulle-kybernetik.com> <005401c941e6$5e660e80$1b322b80$@org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Marcus_M=C3=BCller?= Subject: Re: ZFS patches. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:37:19 -0000 2008/11/8 Larry Rosenman > > >On 01.11.2008, at 02:39, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > >> Can you please give us an indication as to when we might expect to see > >> either an updated set of ZFS patches (or, better, the patches > >> committed > >> to -current). > > > >Me too. ;-) I just want to second that request. While I'm also still > >desperately waiting for an update, basically all I'd like to see at > >this point is a rough schedule when I/we could expect all the recent > >changes in Perforce to be in CVS HEAD for testing. > > I'd like to 3rd this request. I'm running a -CURRENT system from August > with the patches and upgraded > ZPOOL/ZFS's. I'd like to get more recent on the system sources, but I > know > there are issues with the ZFS > patch, and would love to see the schedule or a new patch against recent > HEAD. > > Thanks! > > > -- > Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler > Phone: +1 512-248-2683 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org > US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Hello, as I'm simple, I'd stick with commiting ZFS patches for start. Once in the tree, it's more "easy" from there. It's up to pjd and core to decide when, but it doesn't hurt ranting. Happy Sunday to all. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 18:09:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D9C1065677 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan-freebsd-fs@ourbrains.org) Received: from ourbrains.org (li48-221.members.linode.com [66.246.76.221]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 374468FC22 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan-freebsd-fs@ourbrains.org) Received: (qmail 5168 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Nov 2008 17:43:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:43:03 -0500 From: Dan To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: Will XFS be adopted X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:09:44 -0000 With XFS being adopted by Linux now for a number of years, I wonder why it hasn't been by FreeBSD. It's a great FS that can be resized on the fly which makes it a perfect journaling FS with volume managers. Anybody know? From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 18:37:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A451065670 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:37:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from tinker.exit.com (tinker.exit.com [206.223.0.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB97F8FC19 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:37:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from jill.exit.com (jill.exit.com [IPv6:2001:470:80f4:0:2e0:81ff:fe33:7e9a]) by tinker.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA9IGrLu086128; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=exit.com; s=tinker; t=1226254614; bh=Z3B76+ZlWg0G+pMkdIvLZIriP3ZIfXFC0skgTUJoTRw=; h=Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:Message-Id:Mime-Version; b=VGC23Ach HzHzFd+56Qe8uRkPiBNstV/2uI8MZZn6NsOHYuNsCGi1oJfJanXm5qXhMpeot5YGjut tfT5rbqNv6jLCPxylwxbHLxwfarrZgjQT7DFekBsGyC9PKsSHY/TvQwjV6mJXMb0HtJ kb5MmMVWnec2N+ruG0vhslp9cHZys= Received: from jill.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA9IGrEQ077237; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by jill.exit.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mA9IGrGo077236; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) X-Authentication-Warning: jill.exit.com: frank set sender to frank@exit.com using -f From: Frank Mayhar To: Dan In-Reply-To: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> References: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Exit Consulting Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:16:53 -0800 Message-Id: <1226254613.76915.1.camel@jill.exit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8594/Sat Nov 8 15:38:17 2008 on tinker.exit.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Will XFS be adopted X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: frank@exit.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:37:40 -0000 On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 12:43 -0500, Dan wrote: > With XFS being adopted by Linux now for a number of years, I wonder why > it hasn't been by FreeBSD. It's a great FS that can be resized on the > fly which makes it a perfect journaling FS with volume managers. Anybody > know? Considering that XFS is under the GPL (totally incompatible with the BSD license) and that ZFS _is_ being adopted by FreeBSD, at least experimentally, there's no good reason to adopt XFS and at least one good reason not to do so. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 18:43:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12F71065672 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:43:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail36.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail36.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.76]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C3A8FC1A for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:43:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail36.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mA9Ihnkt032721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:43:53 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mA9IhnwE040976; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:43:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mA9Ihnqs040975; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:43:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:43:49 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Dan Message-ID: <20081109184349.GG51239@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RDS4xtyBfx+7DiaI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Will XFS be adopted X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:43:56 -0000 --RDS4xtyBfx+7DiaI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Nov-09 12:43:03 -0500, Dan wrote: >With XFS being adopted by Linux now for a number of years, I wonder why >it hasn't been by FreeBSD. I guess no-one has been sufficiently motivated. > It's a great FS that can be resized on the >fly which makes it a perfect journaling FS with volume managers. FreeBSD has ZFS - which is a re-sizable FS with an integrated volume manager. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --RDS4xtyBfx+7DiaI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkkXL2UACgkQ/opHv/APuIf5PQCfVeOcsuqnThBMarFk8ibWpNsU nIYAoKmViMsG99h5VUfK/mwIIKT6uPfx =jaQI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RDS4xtyBfx+7DiaI-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 18:46:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291501065670 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:46:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@rgbaz.eu) Received: from jasper.secsrv.net (jasper.secsrv.net [66.98.138.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1E78FC4B for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:46:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@rgbaz.eu) Received: from [82.161.18.200] (helo=[10.0.1.104]) by jasper.secsrv.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KzEt8-0008F5-Ua for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:19:55 -0500 Message-Id: <27EF9A8F-A7DA-4711-8462-D28B0A1813BC@rgbaz.eu> From: FBSD UG To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:19:49 +0100 References: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - jasper.secsrv.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - rgbaz.eu X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: Will XFS be adopted X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:46:20 -0000 On 9 nov 2008, at 18:43, Dan wrote: > With XFS being adopted by Linux now for a number of years, I wonder > why > it hasn't been by FreeBSD. It's a great FS that can be resized on the > fly which makes it a perfect journaling FS with volume managers. > Anybody > know? > _______________________________________________ because of the license? gr Arno From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 18:52:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218CB106564A for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:52:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michael@fuckner.net) Received: from dedihh.fuckner.net (dedihh.fuckner.net [81.209.183.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAFA58FC16 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:52:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michael@fuckner.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dedihh.fuckner.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C2661D99; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:35:55 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at fuckner.net Received: from dedihh.fuckner.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dedihh.fuckner.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id ue0UeJSsmRAt; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:35:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.2.65] (e176152101.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.176.152.101]) by dedihh.fuckner.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 328F561D6B; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:35:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49172D82.1010103@fuckner.net> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:35:46 +0100 From: Michael Fuckner User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan References: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> In-Reply-To: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Will XFS be adopted X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:52:28 -0000 Dan wrote: Hi! > With XFS being adopted by Linux now for a number of years, I wonder why > it hasn't been by FreeBSD. this is not correct. Please read man 5 xfs. The xfs file system support first appeared in FreeBSD 7.0. > It's a great FS that can be resized on the > fly which makes it a perfect journaling FS with volume managers. Anybody > know? Regards, Michael Fuckner! From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 19:15:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E802106564A for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:15:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-fs@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7618FC14 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:15:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-fs@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KzFkb-0002dD-MI for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:15:09 +0000 Received: from 93-138-19-176.adsl.net.t-com.hr ([93.138.19.176]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:15:09 +0000 Received: from ivoras by 93-138-19-176.adsl.net.t-com.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:15:09 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:14:49 +0100 Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <20081109174303.GA5146@ourbrains.org> <49172D82.1010103@fuckner.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig70098100B729841373551942" X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 93-138-19-176.adsl.net.t-com.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) In-Reply-To: <49172D82.1010103@fuckner.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Sender: news Subject: Re: Will XFS be adopted X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:15:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig70098100B729841373551942 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Fuckner wrote: > Dan wrote: >=20 > Hi! >> With XFS being adopted by Linux now for a number of years, I wonder wh= y >> it hasn't been by FreeBSD.=20 > this is not correct. >=20 > Please read man 5 xfs. > The xfs file system support first appeared in FreeBSD 7.0. Well yes, but you can't really call read-only support for a file system its proper adoption. AFAIK there have even been talks of removing reiserfs and xfs as the read-only support is almost useless and there have been problems maintaining them actively (nobody's interested enough)= =2E FWIW, I'd like read-write XFS, too, regardless of ZFS. --------------enig70098100B729841373551942 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkXNqkACgkQldnAQVacBchblQCfeYcsb73e3rOuShvZFkcUHBj2 Di4AoK6SZKMEJcUhS34Z2rkqhvqLHI3K =S6Hv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig70098100B729841373551942-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 07:25:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4306F1065672; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:25:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daichi@ongs.co.jp) Received: from natial.ongs.co.jp (natial.ongs.co.jp [202.216.246.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F608FC1B; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:25:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daichi@ongs.co.jp) Received: from parancell.ongs.co.jp (dullmdaler.ongs.co.jp [202.216.246.94]) by natial.ongs.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 87C3E12542B; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:20:41 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <4917E0C9.5020105@ongs.co.jp> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:20:41 +0900 From: Daichi GOTO User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080927) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Call for Test] a patch for kern/121385 - Unionfs cross mount issue X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:25:44 -0000 Hi Unionfs users About kern/121385 - Unionfs cross mount issue, by discussion at EuroBSDCon2008, unionfs does not allow user to do cross mount operation. If you have some interest this issue, please get this patch and try with current. I'll commit this patch after 1 week later. PR: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=kern/121385 Patch: http://people.freebsd.org/~daichi/unionfs/experiments/unionfs-cross-mount.diff This issue was discussed at EuroBSDCon2008 FreeBSD developer summit. Thanks for hrs and gnn :) -- Daichi GOTO, http://people.freebsd.org/~daichi From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 07:30:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5359F1065676; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daichi@ongs.co.jp) Received: from natial.ongs.co.jp (natial.ongs.co.jp [202.216.246.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F5D8FC34; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daichi@ongs.co.jp) Received: from parancell.ongs.co.jp (dullmdaler.ongs.co.jp [202.216.246.94]) by natial.ongs.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2925D125424; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:12:13 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <4917DECC.4010302@ongs.co.jp> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:12:12 +0900 From: Daichi GOTO User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080927) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Call for Test] a patch for kern/118346 - Unionfs socket issue X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:30:44 -0000 Hi Unionfs users At final, I have a long awaited patch to fix Unionfs socket issue (kern/118346). If you have interested in Unionfs socket issue, please get this patch and try it with current. I'll commit this patch to current after 2-week later. PR: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=kern/118346 Patch: http://people.freebsd.org/~daichi/unionfs/experiments/unionfs-vsock.diff This issue was discussed at EuroBSDCon2008 FreeBSD developer summit. Thanks for rwatson, hrs and gnn :) -- Daichi GOTO, http://people.freebsd.org/~daichi From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 11:06:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8711065686 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:06:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C2C8FC2D for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:06:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mAAB6oEU049707 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:06:50 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mAAB6nIx049703 for freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:06:49 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:06:49 GMT Message-Id: <200811101106.mAAB6nIx049703@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:06:50 -0000 Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o kern/128633 fs [zfs] [lor] lock order reversal in zfs o kern/128514 fs [zfs] [mpt] problems with ZFS and LSILogic SAS/SATA Ad o kern/128173 fs [ext2fs] ls gives "Input/output error" on mounted ext3 o kern/127420 fs [gjournal] [panic] Journal overflow on gmirrored gjour o kern/127213 fs [tmpfs] sendfile on tmpfs data corruption o kern/127029 fs [panic] mount(8): trying to mount a write protected zi o kern/126287 fs [ufs] [panic] Kernel panics while mounting an UFS file o kern/125536 fs [ext2fs] ext 2 mounts cleanly but fails on commands li o kern/125149 fs [nfs][panic] changing into .zfs dir from nfs client ca o kern/124621 fs [ext3] Cannot mount ext2fs partition o kern/122888 fs [zfs] zfs hang w/ prefetch on, zil off while running t o bin/122172 fs [fs]: amd(8) automount daemon dies on 6.3-STABLE i386, o bin/121072 fs [smbfs] mount_smbfs(8) cannot normally convert the cha o bin/118249 fs mv(1): moving a directory changes its mtime o kern/116170 fs [panic] Kernel panic when mounting /tmp o kern/114955 fs [cd9660] [patch] [request] support for mask,dirmask,ui o kern/114847 fs [ntfs] [patch] [request] dirmask support for NTFS ala o kern/114676 fs [ufs] snapshot creation panics: snapacct_ufs2: bad blo o bin/114468 fs [patch] [request] add -d option to umount(8) to detach o bin/113838 fs [patch] [request] mount(8): add support for relative p o bin/113049 fs [patch] [request] make quot(8) use getopt(3) and show o kern/112658 fs [smbfs] [patch] smbfs and caching problems (resolves b o kern/93942 fs [vfs] [patch] panic: ufs_dirbad: bad dir (patch from D 23 problems total. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 15:17:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A421065704 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:17:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E008FC22 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.28]) by QMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dQKe1a00C0cZkys53TGrry; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:16:51 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([69.181.141.110]) by OMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dTHY1a00d2P6wsM3WTHYCV; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:17:33 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=_PMkm74-UjwA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=yAmLhBu469Ez4uVrXcwA:9 a=WePgQx9zAjoQ20V1bfUA:7 a=fH1qkUW7Sc6ncxlcKn6QNFT4920A:4 a=AxHaZUC2c1QA:10 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=CWfAmLVWKswA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 329445C19; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:17:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:17:32 -0800 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20081110151732.GA72926@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: boot0: Unable to boot DOS slices/partitions X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:17:34 -0000 I've been working for the past 2-3 days on a Wiki entry describing how to get two versions or architecture types of FreeBSD, and MS-DOS, all on a USB stick. The intended goal is to allow an administrator to install FreeBSD i386 or FreeBSD amd64 from a USB stick, while also providing the ability to boot DOS for BIOS upgrades and so forth. Please note the below is a complete mess, due to the fact that I have spent the past 9 hours editing things off and on. http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/Installing_from_USB_flash_drive So far, I've had great success with the FreeBSD part of it -- no issues or oddities. The problem I'm running into is the DOS part. I've been completely unable to get boot0 to boot MS-DOS 6.22 (on a FAT16 slice), MS-DOS 7.10 (on a FAT16 or FAT32 slice), or FreeDOS 1.0 (on a FAT16 or FAT32 slice). With MS-DOS, COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, and MSDOS.SYS are all copied on to the slice. With FreeDOS, COMMAND.COM and KERNEL.SYS are all copied on to the slice. boot0 shows "F1 DOS" as a choice, but depending upon where I formatted the slice (on Windows XP or via newfs_msdos), I get one of the following two error messages from the bootstraps installed on /dev/da0s1: Non-system disk Disk error I've even gone so far to try using FAT32LBA.BIN from the FreeDOS project as the bootstrap, e.g. newfs_msdos -B FAT32LBA.BIN /dev/da0s1 which just causes a hard-lock. Enabling packet mode in boot0cfg makes no difference. What *does* work, however, is using FAT32LBA.BIN and SYSLINUX together as the actual boot loader itself (e.g. at sector 0). I can successfully boot FreeDOS using this method. I'd advocate using SYSLINUX entirely, but it doesn't appear possible to get SYSLINUX to boot a slice/partition, only refer to actual files on the FAT16/FAT32 partition. I'd try GRUB, except that all of my BSD boxes at home are amd64 (sans the one I'm trying to boot the USB stick on, but that doesn't have FreeBSD installed on it), and sysutils/grub only builds on i386. Slice layout: DISK Geometry: 977 cyls/255 heads/63 sectors = 15695505 sectors (7663MB) Offset Size(KB) End Name PType Desc Subtype Flags 0 31 62 - 12 unused 0 63 5759271 11518604 da0s1 4 fat (32-bit,LBA) 12 A 11518605 1044225 13607054 da0s2 8 freebsd 165 13607055 1044225 15695504 da0s3 8 freebsd 165 15695505 183 15695870 - 12 unused 0 I don't have boot0cfg output immediately on hand, but can get it if need be. Ideas? -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 15:53:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730741065677 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:53:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bra@fsn.hu) Received: from people.fsn.hu (people.fsn.hu [195.228.252.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D2F8FC08 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:53:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bra@fsn.hu) Received: from japan.t-online.private (people [192.168.2.4]) by people.fsn.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB1B160406 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:36:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49185518.2020600@fsn.hu> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:36:56 +0100 From: Attila Nagy User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080929) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Different inodes X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:53:32 -0000 Hello, I don't quite get this: ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/ 3817938 .svn 3817976 Setup.local 3817978 libpython2.5.a 3817979 Makefile 3817975 config.c 3817980 libpython2.5.so 3817973 Setup 3817977 config.c.in 3817982 makesetup 3817974 Setup.config 3817981 install-sh 3817983 python.o ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.* 3817978 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.a 73738 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so (libpython2.5.so's inode differs in the two output) The filesystem is an asynchronously mounted UFS2. I have a slightly modified kernel, because I need to do redundant NFS serving, so consistent inodes are a must. The modification consists of changed arc4randoms in sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c and ffs_vfsops.c to a constant value, but I don't think it can be the cause. Could it be? Thanks, From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 19:01:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C931065691 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:01:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859E18FC21 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:01:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mAAJ1spW001712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:01:56 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mAAJ1r2l010318; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:01:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mAAJ1pmW010317; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:01:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:01:51 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Attila Nagy Message-ID: <20081110190151.GI51239@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <49185518.2020600@fsn.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TBNym+cBXeFsS4Vs" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49185518.2020600@fsn.hu> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Different inodes X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:01:59 -0000 --TBNym+cBXeFsS4Vs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Nov-10 16:36:56 +0100, Attila Nagy wrote: >I don't quite get this: > >ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/ >3817938 .svn 3817976 Setup.local 3817978 libpython2.5.a >3817979 Makefile 3817975 config.c 3817980 libpython2.5.so >3817973 Setup 3817977 config.c.in 3817982 makesetup >3817974 Setup.config 3817981 install-sh 3817983 python.o > >ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.* >3817978 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.a > 73738 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so I can't reproduce it here on 7-stable. Note that libpython2.5.so is a symlink so it seems likely that one of your ls commands is de-referencing the symlink and the other isn't - though I don't know how this is being done. Can you confirm that you are using /bin/ls (not an alias or some alternate variant). You might also verify that you get the same result using /bin/sh as a shell. >The modification consists of changed arc4randoms in=20 >sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c and ffs_vfsops.c to a constant value, but I=20 >don't think it can be the cause. Could it be? This shouldn't affect the above. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --TBNym+cBXeFsS4Vs Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkkYhR4ACgkQ/opHv/APuIfzXACgvbiwsLqbSiPS+/R9SJVZk8z9 H5oAn38iR2t1noQYeNBc6yqd/YL6fqV4 =OmVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TBNym+cBXeFsS4Vs-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 09:04:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE521065686 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:04:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bra@fsn.hu) Received: from people.fsn.hu (people.fsn.hu [195.228.252.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D43D8FC13 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:04:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bra@fsn.hu) Received: from [172.16.129.138] (fw.axelero.hu [195.228.243.120]) by people.fsn.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1EA115E655; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:04:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49194AA3.2090208@fsn.hu> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:04:35 +0100 From: Attila Nagy User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy References: <49185518.2020600@fsn.hu> <20081110190151.GI51239@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20081110190151.GI51239@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> X-Stationery: 0.4.8.11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Different inodes X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:04:42 -0000 Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2008-Nov-10 16:36:56 +0100, Attila Nagy wrote: > >> I don't quite get this: >> >> ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/ >> 3817938 .svn 3817976 Setup.local 3817978 libpython2.5.a >> 3817979 Makefile 3817975 config.c 3817980 libpython2.5.so >> 3817973 Setup 3817977 config.c.in 3817982 makesetup >> 3817974 Setup.config 3817981 install-sh 3817983 python.o >> >> ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.* >> 3817978 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.a >> 73738 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so >> > > I can't reproduce it here on 7-stable. Note that libpython2.5.so > is a symlink so it seems likely that one of your ls commands is > de-referencing the symlink and the other isn't - though I don't > know how this is being done. > > Can you confirm that you are using /bin/ls (not an alias or some > alternate variant). You might also verify that you get the same > result using /bin/sh as a shell. > You are right, it's a symlink. What I run is a 7-STABLE on amd64 built at Wed May 28 17:02:56 CEST 2008. With /bin/sh as my shell: # /bin/ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so 73738 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so # /bin/ls -li /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so 3817980 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 30 Oct 29 09:40 /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config/libpython2.5.so -> /usr/local/lib/libpython2.5.so # /bin/ls -li /usr/local/lib/libpython2.5.so 73739 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 17 Oct 18 09:23 /usr/local/lib/libpython2.5.so -> libpython2.5.so.1 # /bin/ls -li /usr/local/lib/libpython2.5.so.1 73738 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1364800 Oct 18 09:23 /usr/local/lib/libpython2.5.so.1 # /bin/ls -i /20081021/usr/local/lib/python2.5/config 3817938 .svn 3817973 Setup 3817976 Setup.local 3817977 config.c.in 3817978 libpython2.5.a 3817982 makesetup 3817979 Makefile 3817974 Setup.config 3817975 config.c 3817981 install-sh 3817980 libpython2.5.so 3817983 python.o > >> The modification consists of changed arc4randoms in >> sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c and ffs_vfsops.c to a constant value, but I >> don't think it can be the cause. Could it be? >> > > This shouldn't affect the above. > Well, the full story is the following: - I have two NFS servers per site, which act as redundant file servers (the above is on one of those machines) - I run a modified kernel on these (see above) to be able to achieve inode consistency between the machines (so in case of failover, the clients won't crash with stale filehandles) - the shares are read only (to the NFS clients) - I update the content from subversion by running an "svn up" on both pairs simultaneously and with the above patch, the files' inodes remained consistent - after the svn up I did an ls -Ri on the working copy on both machines, and made a diff from them. If the diff was empty, the inodes were right, if it wasn't, then there was a problem. Until now, everything was right. - what has changed now is two fold: 1. the content has grown so large, that an svn up from the working copy's root ran too long, so I have switched to the method of comparing the revision of the working copy, and the svn repo's head, made a diff summary and only updated (deep in the tree) what's needed 2. for the same cause, I have switched from ls -Ri to printing each modified file's inode number It seems that symlinks are inconsistent then listing them with "ls -i" directly, but with "ls -Ri" shows no errors. Also, I didn't faced any problems so far when switching NFS servers. So what I see now is that everything is OK (for me, the inodes are in sync), the problem is that I must check for the symlink's inode number and must not let ls to resolve that back to the outer filesystem, which is of course differs on the machines. Problem solved for me, the question is whether the above inner working of ls is a misbehaviour, or is it just normal. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 13:35:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8041065689; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:35:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15EF8FC37; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:35:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA29352; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:35:23 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <49198A1A.3080600@icyb.net.ua> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:35:22 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081106) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-geom@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: <4911C3E9.405@icyb.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <4911C3E9.405@icyb.net.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: zfs: affected by geom_(mbr|bsd) => geom_part_(mbr|bsd) ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:35:26 -0000 on 05/11/2008 18:03 Andriy Gapon said the following: > Using GENERIC amd64 7-BETA2 system (installed from "official" ISO) I > partitioned my disk for ZFS root file system more or less as described here: > https://ish.com.au/solutions/articles/freebsdzfs > > Big difference is that I created a separate slice to contain a partition > for ZFS pool, so that ZFS pool is ad4s2d (and UFS2 boot is ad4s1a). > > Everything was fine, ZFS root was mounted as expected. > > Then I built a custom kernel with nooptions for GEOM_(BSD|MBR) and > options for GEOM_PART_(BSD|MBR). When I tried to boot this kernel it > couldn't mount ZFS root and I simply rebooted my machine when I stuck at > mountroot prompt (I couldn't enter UFS2 root because of unrelated > keyboard problem). > The boot was verbose and I didn't see any peculiar GEOM or GEOM_PART > messages (errors, warnings). > > I'll try to debug this further by booting into UFS root and running > gpart, but I'd like to ask for an advice upfront. So I did this. Here are some data: $ gpart show => 63 976773105 ad6 MBR (500.1GB) 63 12578832 1 freebsd [active] (6.4GB) 12578895 964189170 2 freebsd (493.7GB) 976768065 5103 - free - (2.6MB) => 0 12578832 ad6s1 BSD (6.4GB) 0 16 - free - (8.2KB) 16 2097152 1 freebsd-ufs (1073.7MB) 2097168 2097152 - free - (1073.7MB) 4194320 8384512 2 freebsd-swap (4.3GB) => 0 964189170 ad6s2 BSD (493.7GB) 0 16 - free - (8.2KB) 16 964189154 4 freebsd-swap (493.7GB) $ zpool status pool: tank state: UNAVAIL status: One or more devices could not be opened. There are insufficient replicas for the pool to continue functioning. action: Attach the missing device and online it using 'zpool online'. see: http://www.sun.com/msg/ZFS-8000-D3 scrub: none requested config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM tank UNAVAIL 0 0 0 insufficient replicas ad6s2d UNAVAIL 0 0 0 cannot open So gpart sees ad6s2d perfectly well, it has the same parameters as disklabel previously reported and /dev/ad6s2d exists. But zfs "cannot open" it. What I did next was: 1. reboot into "disklabel" kernel single-user 2. zpool export tank 3. reboot into gpart kernel single-user 4. zpool import - it saw tank correctly 5. zpool import tank 6. profit! :-) As I see it, zpool.cache contained something about ad6s2d that prevented gpart ad6s2d from being recognized as the same device as "disklabel" one. I really wonder what that could have been? Or maybe gpart reported some subtle property of the device differently... -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 21:13:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3741065679 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:13:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mckusick@mckusick.com) Received: from chez.mckusick.com (chez.mckusick.com [64.81.247.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564638FC2E for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:13:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mckusick@mckusick.com) Received: from chez.mckusick.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chez.mckusick.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mABKxL3Z068989; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mckusick@chez.mckusick.com) Message-Id: <200811112059.mABKxL3Z068989@chez.mckusick.com> To: Attila Nagy Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:59:21 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Different inodes X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:13:56 -0000 To: Peter Jeremy Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Different inodes > On 2008-Nov-10 16:36:56 +0100, Attila Nagy wrote: > It seems that symlinks are inconsistent then listing them with "ls -i" > directly, but with "ls -Ri" shows no errors. Also, I didn't faced any > problems so far when switching NFS servers. When you do an `ls -i' of a directory, the `ls' command does a stat() of the name, discovers that it is a directory, does a readdir of the directory, and prints out the inode numbers listed for each entry in the directory. For entries that are symbolic links, the inode number in the directory is the inode number of the symbolic link. When you do an `ls -i' of a name which is a symbolic link, `ls' does a stat() of the name. When you do a stat() of a symbolic link, you follow the link, so the stat infor that comes back is for the thing to which the symbolic link points. Thus when it prints the inode number, you get the inode number of the file to which the symbolic link points. To get the inode number of the symbolic link, `ls' would have to do an lstat() instead of a stat(). That would be a rather drastic change of historic behavior. Kirk McKusick From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 01:11:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4611065680; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:11:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315938FC0C; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:11:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (linimon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mAD1B09p050574; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:11:00 GMT (envelope-from linimon@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from linimon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mAD1B0qS050570; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:11:00 GMT (envelope-from linimon) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:11:00 GMT Message-Id: <200811130111.mAD1B0qS050570@freefall.freebsd.org> To: linimon@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org From: linimon@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: kern/128829: [smbfs] smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:11:00 -0000 Old Synopsis: smbd causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE New Synopsis: [smbfs] smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-fs Responsible-Changed-By: linimon Responsible-Changed-When: Thu Nov 13 01:09:39 UTC 2008 Responsible-Changed-Why: Over to maintainer(s). http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=128829 From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 02:39:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA971065673 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:39:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from toasty@dragondata.com) Received: from tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org [204.9.54.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD5E8FC0C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:39:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from toasty@dragondata.com) Received: from tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (localhost.your.org [127.0.0.1]) by tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4572AD56A3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:22:32 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=dragondata.com; h= message-id:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:date; s=selector1; bh=+UluasU3ZcBBa8xF779f WamxwBU=; b=LeGIzBgyjKesSsnNsRgjzshZM8rxqeFRexk4o9is/kjG3sogo/8Q 89x4y9kMlmnNSHo0B7edbUwzBb3WWFTn02z0V+CciilqM2CZJ8IdDQp6jqgTkRYx F++ZOEr2429RasDXU1ZTfoDVPc1cUtVqLDh5dq+q59VXzizJXB8ulVc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=dragondata.com; h=message-id:from :to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject: date; q=dns; s=selector1; b=ab/6nHnB7pJxQWQGKq081eEv7OE9YjIfkaNt 6ApHHqxqsQl6BTW5W75hxZqOLA91SkH6N2aOoTpubCrlYCuEUnBrjZkMjJiH7IEd qgl7+XI1ZnIb9QRrCM3qL5HRr23lrrAb0sCoPc3mkt1vn00FePjQF9AKRXtO0SSJ K+R7rVg= Received: from mail.your.org (server3-a.your.org [64.202.112.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 120352AD5699 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:22:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [216.14.99.244] (unknown [216.14.99.244]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61D60A0A453 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:22:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-Id: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> From: Kevin Day To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:22:29 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Subject: UFS Snapshot lock time X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:39:00 -0000 Is there any documentation out there that explains how to optimize UFS snapshotting? Specifically, we've got a rather big filesystem that I'd like to do hourly snapshots of. I don't mind how long the snapshot itself takes, but the amount of time the filesystem is locked is a problem. We're "dead" for about 12 minutes per snapshotting. Is there anything to tweak to speed it up any? (memory v.s. time exchange somewhere?) Is the length of time it takes a function of the number of inodes, directories, or...? Relevant info: Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/da0s1a 739339824 73453348 606739292 11% 1717543 93856471 2% / which is a 6 drive RAID-0 array. CPU: Dual-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 2218 (2593.52-MHz K8-class CPU) usable memory = 17166548992 (16371 MB) FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 4 CPUs In theory, this should be a rather fast box, but it is a rather large filesystem. -- Kevin From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 04:34:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4968C1065673 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:34:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD308FC0C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:34:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.28]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eS2e1a0010cQ2SLA2UaFgN; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:34:15 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([69.181.141.110]) by OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eUaE1a0052P6wsM8WUaEtv; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:34:15 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=FiroYRd1fLxy0W-RoiUA:9 a=fh9Iusfim94nvvmBvZFVl2gO1OkA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 16DBB5C19; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:34:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:34:14 -0800 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Kevin Day Message-ID: <20081113043414.GA10272@icarus.home.lan> References: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UFS Snapshot lock time X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:34:16 -0000 On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:22:29PM -0600, Kevin Day wrote: > Is there any documentation out there that explains how to optimize UFS > snapshotting? > > Specifically, we've got a rather big filesystem that I'd like to do > hourly snapshots of. I don't mind how long the snapshot itself takes, > but the amount of time the filesystem is locked is a problem. We're > "dead" for about 12 minutes per snapshotting. This topic comes up about once every 2 weeks. There's a discussion going about it on -stable right now: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2008-November/046524.html It's also been documented on my issues Wiki: http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/Commonly_reported_issues At this time, there is no fix. Workarounds: 1) Use rsnapshot (which is rsync-based) to accomplish the same; this works on a UFS/UFS2 filesystem. However, note that file atimes on your source will get destroyed (which will affect the "new mail" capability of classic UNIX mboxes; there is no solution for that) 1) Switch to ZFS, which has a reliable snapshotting. > In theory, this should be a rather fast box, but it is a rather large > filesystem. The speed of the box has nothing to do with the problem; your hardware is not to blame. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 04:54:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D811106564A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from toasty@dragondata.com) Received: from tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org [204.9.54.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330008FC08 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from toasty@dragondata.com) Received: from tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (localhost.your.org [127.0.0.1]) by tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC942AD58FB; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:54:36 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=dragondata.com; h=cc :message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references; s=selector1; bh=UrHtOex+NEi/3uawpXA2kEScEU0=; b=sebUW70NpbnTi7c mWattR6QLfbH1uecyzneZxzLKDeEVR60DmBHNHAyv6h480IYrBb0VARL8FS2x8oH r4Ug6H9ADOqLVqywd51mTvR8+YKpQq2occ1rojtt/Wkh6NB+OeZuDt6ur4OQQz03 rQbAe6agTM9sFndvV5uvCS3kynU0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=dragondata.com; h=cc:message-id :from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:date:references; q=dns; s=selector1; b=qCT AncVf5ESCPnAYdBXrUsNTofgZk71cn2hwOYmnDtLCOju0mzBphgvoREdOkvYLDH6 mDIEo7Xm630DyrnypiptawCv4HoaYG9nZVbpA/4ZR57NO21HhCQLS5nXiDVzzsqQ EREsk0h+rayj5nQOUfpAl2BuGF0TQjlE4lz4mCQ4= Received: from mail.your.org (server3-a.your.org [64.202.112.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C35F32AD563B; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:54:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2002:451f:630b:1::1] (unknown [IPv6:2002:451f:630b:1::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2D47A0A406; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:54:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-Id: <145D28E0-C04F-456C-990D-0D0672A0EB26@dragondata.com> From: Kevin Day To: Jeremy Chadwick In-Reply-To: <20081113043414.GA10272@icarus.home.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:54:26 -0600 References: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> <20081113043414.GA10272@icarus.home.lan> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UFS Snapshot lock time X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:54:38 -0000 On Nov 12, 2008, at 10:34 PM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:22:29PM -0600, Kevin Day wrote: >> Is there any documentation out there that explains how to optimize >> UFS >> snapshotting? >> > This topic comes up about once every 2 weeks. There's a discussion > going about it on -stable right now: > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2008-November/046524.html > My apologies - I looked through recent posts on lists 2 days ago, but didn't search again before posting here. I thought the much earlier complaints were about total deadlocks that didn't come back... re- reading I see otherwise. I'll move this over there. > It's also been documented on my issues Wiki: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/Commonly_reported_issues > Ack - I thought I had that page memorized. :) -- Kevin From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 06:20:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 397D21065672; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:20:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0EE8FC12; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:20:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@dannysplace.net) Received: from 203-206-171-212.perm.iinet.net.au ([203.206.171.212] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1L0V25-000IUu-PC; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:46:32 +1000 Message-ID: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:46:32 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd@dannysplace.net References: <490A782F.9060406@dannysplace.net> <20081031033208.GA21220@icarus.home.lan> <490A849C.7030009@dannysplace.net> <20081031043412.GA22289@icarus.home.lan> <490A8FAD.8060009@dannysplace.net> In-Reply-To: <490A8FAD.8060009@dannysplace.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.69 (build at 08-Jul-2008 08:59:40) X-Date: 2008-11-13 15:46:22 X-Connected-IP: 203.206.171.212:3073 X-Message-Linecount: 85 X-Body-Linecount: 70 X-Message-Size: 2967 X-Body-Size: 2246 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 203.206.171.212 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net, koitsu@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: danny@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:20:02 -0000 Danny Carroll wrote: > Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >> I'd like to see the performance difference between these scenarios: >> >> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >> The initial results for a ICH9 vs Areca in JBod mode can be found here: http://www.dannysplace.net/ZFS-JBODTests.html Summary: 5 Disk ZFS RaidZ array with atime turned off. ICH9 - block reads avg 400MByte/Sec ICH9 - block writes avg 150MByte/Sec ArecaJBOD - block reads avg 300MByte/Sec ArecaJBOD - block writes avg 160MByte/Sec The Areca seems to be in all except char and block writes. Block reads are 75% as fast as the ICH9 and rewrites are about 85% as fast. There seems to be little difference between enabling and disabling the disk cache on the Areca. This leads me to two conclusions: 1. Disabling the write cache does nothing on Seagate drives. 2. IO to the drives is so slow that a write cache is irrelevant. These are just some quick tests that I started with, mainly to compare the areca bus versus the ich9 bus. If someone has any tuning suggestions, then now is the time to make them before I migrate the ICH9 drives to the Areca bus. -D p.s. My OS details are: FreeBSD 7.1-PRERELEASE #3: Tue Nov 4 13:58:49 EST 2008 localhost# cat /etc/sysctl.conf kern.maxvnodes=400000 net.key.preferred_oldsa=0 net.key.blockacq_count=0 kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=400000 net.inet.ip.fastforwarding=1 net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1 kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=16777216 net.local.stream.sendspace=82320 net.local.stream.recvspace=82320 net.inet.tcp.local_slowstart_flightsize=10 net.inet.tcp.nolocaltimewait=1 net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=1 net.inet.tcp.delacktime=100 net.inet.tcp.mssdflt=1460 net.inet.tcp.sendspace=78840 net.inet.tcp.recvspace=78840 net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize=54 net.inet.tcp.inflight.enable=1 net.inet.tcp.inflight.min=6144 net.inet.tcp.hostcache.expire=3900 localhost# cat /boot/loader.conf hw.em.rxd=4096 hw.em.txd=4096 vm.kmem_size="1536M" vm.kmem_size_max="1536M" smb_load="YES" smbus_load="YES" ichsmb_load="YES" From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 07:43:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E11106567C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.96]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233608FC13 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:43:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.52]) by QMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eXKa1a00717UAYkA9Xj2dK; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:43:02 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([69.181.141.110]) by OMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eXj21a0012P6wsM8ZXj26s; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:43:02 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=aQgbMQmz5TEA:10 a=qMCG-Xc8eBMA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=ggi0_wdoAqmuBgJFduwA:9 a=_n-Wm4Mgt0fDCR6WTWreOFjnpmsA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E21665C19; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:43:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:43:01 -0800 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Dieter Message-ID: <20081113074301.GA13938@icarus.home.lan> References: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> <200811130657.GAA26763@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200811130657.GAA26763@sopwith.solgatos.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:43:03 -0000 On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:57:58PM +0000, Dieter wrote: > >> For the array(s) > >> 9 x ST31000340AS 1tb disks > >> 1 x ST31000333AS 1tb disk (trying to swap this for a ST31000340AS) > > > There seems to be little difference between enabling and disabling the > > disk cache on the Areca. This leads me to two conclusions: > > 1. Disabling the write cache does nothing on Seagate drives. > > 2. IO to the drives is so slow that a write cache is irrelevant. > > I have a couple of the ST31000340AS 1TB disks as well as older lower capacity > Seagates, and turning the write cache on/off makes a MASSIVE (roughly 10:1) > difference in write speed. > > Jeremy reports "about 13%" with Seagate ST3120026AS: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hardware/2008-October/005450.html > > Perhaps there is something about the Areca or the testing? Is the write cache > really getting turned on/off? The Areca controller he has can do caching of its own (it has 256MBytes of cache). Meaning, if you disable write cache on the disks (but not the Areca controller itself), all of the caching being done is purely controller-based. The actual disk writes between the controller and the disk will, of course, be "slow" -- but between the OS and the controller, things should appear fast. Let me outline the 4 test scenarios (I thought I did this in my original mail to Danny, but I believe I also said "don't get caught up in excessive granularity because it'll just confuse people now" -- case in point): - Areca cache disabled, disk write cache enabled - Areca cache disabled, disk write cache disabled - Areca cache enabled, disk write cache enabled - Areca cache enabled, disk write cache disabled [**] As I understand it, Danny performed the tests with the [**] configuration. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 08:53:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A9F1065670; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:53:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wjw@digiware.nl) Received: from mail.digiware.nl (www.tegenbosch28.nl [217.21.251.97]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2708FC12; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:53:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wjw@digiware.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost.digiware.nl [127.0.0.1]) by mail.digiware.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0709F1765B; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:33:04 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at digiware.nl Received: from mail.digiware.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rack1.digiware.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YMOew9zOnKSU; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:32:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from [212.61.27.67] (opteron [212.61.27.67]) by mail.digiware.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA91A174FF; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:32:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <491BE632.1020801@IMAP> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:32:50 +0100 From: Willem Jan Withagen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Danny Carroll References: <490A782F.9060406@dannysplace.net> <20081031033208.GA21220@icarus.home.lan> <490A849C.7030009@dannysplace.net> <20081031043412.GA22289@icarus.home.lan> <490A8FAD.8060009@dannysplace.net> <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> In-Reply-To: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:53:27 -0000 Danny Carroll wrote: > Danny Carroll wrote: >> Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >>> I'd like to see the performance difference between these scenarios: >>> >>> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >>> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >>> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >>> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >>> > > > The initial results for a ICH9 vs Areca in JBod mode can be found here: > http://www.dannysplace.net/ZFS-JBODTests.html Just as a polite question, since I'm very much in favor doing benchmarking and do appreciate these kinds of test. You might want to add an introductory page to your results describing how you setup the test: Details of the hardware Details of the disk setup possible version and options with bonnie The script you used.... This would allow others to redo your experiment and try to figure out why their numbers are different. --WjW From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 11:09:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD9D1065689; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:09:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C308FC0A; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:09:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 203-206-171-212.perm.iinet.net.au ([203.206.171.212] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1L0a4o-000KWE-0I; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:09:31 +1000 Message-ID: <491C0B00.4030408@dannysplace.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:09:52 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willem Jan Withagen References: <490A782F.9060406@dannysplace.net> <20081031033208.GA21220@icarus.home.lan> <490A849C.7030009@dannysplace.net> <20081031043412.GA22289@icarus.home.lan> <490A8FAD.8060009@dannysplace.net> <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> <491BE632.1020801@IMAP> In-Reply-To: <491BE632.1020801@IMAP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.69 (build at 08-Jul-2008 08:59:40) X-Date: 2008-11-13 21:09:30 X-Connected-IP: 203.206.171.212:3604 X-Message-Linecount: 55 X-Body-Linecount: 40 X-Message-Size: 2035 X-Body-Size: 1246 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 203.206.171.212 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: wjw@digiware.nl, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, koitsu@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:09:33 -0000 Good idea. Actually, what I will do eventually is *also* post the results to the mailing list. It will probably be around long after my own server is gone. -D Willem Jan Withagen wrote: > Danny Carroll wrote: >> Danny Carroll wrote: >>> Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >>>> I'd like to see the performance difference between these scenarios: >>>> >>>> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >>>> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >>>> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >>>> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >>>> >> >> >> The initial results for a ICH9 vs Areca in JBod mode can be found here: >> http://www.dannysplace.net/ZFS-JBODTests.html > > Just as a polite question, since I'm very much in favor doing > benchmarking and do appreciate these kinds of test. > > You might want to add an introductory page to your results describing > how you setup the test: > Details of the hardware > Details of the disk setup > possible version and options with bonnie > The script you used.... > > This would allow others to redo your experiment and try to figure out > why their numbers are different. > > --WjW > > From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 07:30:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E15F106567C; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:30:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (pool-71-182-69-106.ptldor.fios.verizon.net [71.182.69.106]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B708FC12; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: by sopwith.solgatos.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id F1EDA3F22; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id GAA26763; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:57:58 GMT Message-Id: <200811130657.GAA26763@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:46:32 +1000." <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:57:58 +0000 From: Dieter X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:23:50 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:30:30 -0000 >> For the array(s) >> 9 x ST31000340AS 1tb disks >> 1 x ST31000333AS 1tb disk (trying to swap this for a ST31000340AS) > There seems to be little difference between enabling and disabling the > disk cache on the Areca. This leads me to two conclusions: > 1. Disabling the write cache does nothing on Seagate drives. > 2. IO to the drives is so slow that a write cache is irrelevant. I have a couple of the ST31000340AS 1TB disks as well as older lower capacity Seagates, and turning the write cache on/off makes a MASSIVE (roughly 10:1) difference in write speed. Jeremy reports "about 13%" with Seagate ST3120026AS: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hardware/2008-October/005450.html Perhaps there is something about the Areca or the testing? Is the write cache really getting turned on/off? You're getting about 2-3x the speed I'd expect if the write cache were off, so maybe it is still on but there is a bottleneck elsewhere? Have you tried a simple test with /dev/zero and dd to a raw drive to eliminate the effects of the filesystem? From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 13:11:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BA9106568D; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D598FC21; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kib@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mADDBwq0026498; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:58 GMT (envelope-from kib@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from kib@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mADDBwwr026494; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:58 GMT (envelope-from kib) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:58 GMT Message-Id: <200811131311.mADDBwwr026494@freefall.freebsd.org> To: tschulz@sebeka.k12.mn.us, kib@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org From: kib@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: kern/128829: smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:11:59 -0000 Synopsis: smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE State-Changed-From-To: open->feedback State-Changed-By: kib State-Changed-When: Thu Nov 13 13:09:51 UTC 2008 State-Changed-Why: I think that the problem you experience might be fixed by r184227. What is exact version of the kernel sources and kern_lockf.c on the problematic machine ? http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=128829 From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 13:58:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5441065686; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:58:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8278FC12; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:58:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@dannysplace.net) Received: from 203-206-171-212.perm.iinet.net.au ([203.206.171.212] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1L0cij-000LW7-6j; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:58:55 +1000 Message-ID: <491C32BF.7020805@dannysplace.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:59:27 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> <200811130657.GAA26763@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20081113074301.GA13938@icarus.home.lan> In-Reply-To: <20081113074301.GA13938@icarus.home.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.69 (build at 08-Jul-2008 08:59:40) X-Date: 2008-11-13 23:58:53 X-Connected-IP: 203.206.171.212:3668 X-Message-Linecount: 85 X-Body-Linecount: 70 X-Message-Size: 3740 X-Body-Size: 3062 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 203.206.171.212 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: koitsu@FreeBSD.org, freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: danny@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Dieter , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:58:57 -0000 Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:57:58PM +0000, Dieter wrote: > The Areca controller he has can do caching of its own (it has 256MBytes > of cache). Meaning, if you disable write cache on the disks (but not > the Areca controller itself), all of the caching being done is purely > controller-based. The actual disk writes between the controller and the > disk will, of course, be "slow" -- but between the OS and the > controller, things should appear fast. It is entirely possible. I do not know however if the Areca cache works just for Raid or also in JBOD mode. The card can be configured via a web interface (it has it's own nic), via the CLI, or via the BIOS. The only setting I do see is: Disk Write Cache Mode. This is what I have tested. It might have been the Areca cache I turned off, or it might have been the disk caches that I turned off. I hope it is the former, otherwise what is the purpose of having a battery backup unit? If the disks cache the write, then you will probably lose data anyway. I think, once I turn on Raid mode, there will be an option to turn on/off caching in the raid part of the config. The manual shows me that there is an option there, but it only indicates that you can change the cache mode from WriteBack to WriteThrough. But for now, since it's in JBOD mode I cannot access that. > Let me outline the 4 test scenarios (I thought I did this in my original > mail to Danny, but I believe I also said "don't get caught up in > excessive granularity because it'll just confuse people now" -- case in > point): > > - Areca cache disabled, disk write cache enabled > - Areca cache disabled, disk write cache disabled > - Areca cache enabled, disk write cache enabled > - Areca cache enabled, disk write cache disabled [**] > > As I understand it, Danny performed the tests with the [**] > configuration. > The tests should have names: Test 1: Areca cache disabled, disk write cache enabled Test 2: Areca cache disabled, disk write cache disabled Test 3: Areca cache enabled, disk write cache enabled Test 4: Areca cache enabled, disk write cache disabled You did outline these, I thought I was performaing test 2 because I am assuming that when you turn on JBOD mode, you do not get caching on the controller. Once I am sure there is not something glaringly wrong with the FreeBSD side of things I'll run as many of these tests as I can. For now, I think it is only tests 1 and 2. So, my thoughts remain, why was the read performance the same, and the write performance actually marginally better, after I turned off the cache? I did a reboot after I turned off the cache but I did not power cycle the drives. Perhaps that is the answer? Or perhaps simply the Areca controller cannot turn off the cache on the ST31000340AS drives. Or perhaps the cache is ALWAYS enabled and cannot be turned off on the controller. That mean I was doing test 4 as Jeremy suggested. That seems a likely possibility as well. In fact, thinking about it now, it makes the most sense to me. -D From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 14:50:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76121065694 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97388FC18 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mADEo3ji095381 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:03 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mADEo3Er095378; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:03 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:03 GMT Message-Id: <200811131450.mADEo3Er095378@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org From: Thad Schulz Cc: Subject: Re: kern/128829: smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Thad Schulz List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:04 -0000 The following reply was made to PR kern/128829; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Thad Schulz To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, tschulz@sebeka.k12.mn.us, kib@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: kern/128829: smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:20:01 -0600 The server is running the GENERIC kernel from 7.0-RELEASE and the version of kern_lockf.c looks like v 1.57 2007/08/07 09:04:50 if the GENERIC kernel was built from the sources that came with 7.0-RELEASE. So it looks like the kern_lockf.c from r184227 would be newer. -- Thad Schulz Technology Coordinator Sebeka Public School Phone: 218-837-5101 Email: tschulz@sebeka.k12.mn.us From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 15:31:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6551065674 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:31:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ndenev@gmail.com) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840988FC12 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:31:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ndenev@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so412516ywe.13 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:31:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-pgp-agent:x-mailer; bh=ctg0OpkmrRsFeUfU/6qX5CbQMTncGNmDRUb4qc+CRBM=; b=qvmqylTjwbKsb0GPQ2QpHlliSOGEoGMOj5eopmB9eOlp5jkmmd393o3kMG1QEHibQd cD8dAQUXvnq55mhYfuX1VB4sWu2eeHKT22+3EFGHbLAUyCTevwMinH8Dn6HUdcJH+v12 0rhPmrbDMgnoBhvWrCplXdpBaOsKkQA9r0ItI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-pgp-agent:x-mailer; b=l/O87vKCoCl0e6ahZZFS9+nNbhwB67oMLv89KtXdnCbGe9X6lYXiUTSSwDvXug+QeP 2VqwVWawYsIb6zVYqKtxFgcTgLODzkDBhl1Xy6gp+CiVTX/YFXADCRT/5/Oh5NdFkxPj zUuunDcMW5WZBeokqmncjcr27eP3zm9GVlR0c= Received: by 10.102.228.10 with SMTP id a10mr5855328muh.26.1226588768996; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ndenev.cmotd.com (blah.sun-fish.com [217.18.249.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w5sm47456622mue.10.2008.11.13.07.06.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:06:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <04B6F041-3052-4650-BE62-817E2B28D034@gmail.com> From: Nikolay Denev To: Danny Carroll In-Reply-To: <491C32BF.7020805@dannysplace.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:06:03 +0200 References: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> <200811130657.GAA26763@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20081113074301.GA13938@icarus.home.lan> <491C32BF.7020805@dannysplace.net> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d53 (v53, Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , Dieter , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:31:19 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 13 Nov, 2008, at 15:59 , Danny Carroll wrote: [snip] > > It is entirely possible. I do not know however if the Areca cache > works > just for Raid or also in JBOD mode. > I think some RAID controllers do not use the cache when you export the disks as pass-thru/jbod, but on some controllers you can workaround this by making every disk a RAID0(stripe) array with only one disk. Dunno if that would work on the areca... [snip] - -- Regards, Nikolay Denev -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkcQlsACgkQHNAJ/fLbfrkTkgCgo2NupY2Qe3TglJpoIIwne4uH VRwAnRl9p44NFxyWf9zhjrZOOImtiBAs =4Djt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 16:00:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073C01065680 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:00:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04B78FC18 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:00:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (gnats@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mADG0D2q047091 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:00:13 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mADG0D92047090; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:00:13 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:00:13 GMT Message-Id: <200811131600.mADG0D92047090@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org From: Kostik Belousov Cc: Subject: Re: kern/128829: smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Kostik Belousov List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:00:14 -0000 The following reply was made to PR kern/128829; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Kostik Belousov To: Thad Schulz Cc: bug-followup@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kern/128829: smbd(8) causes periodic panic on 7-RELEASE Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:04:00 +0200 On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 08:20:01AM -0600, Thad Schulz wrote: > The server is running the GENERIC kernel from 7.0-RELEASE and the > version of kern_lockf.c looks like v 1.57 2007/08/07 09:04:50 if the > GENERIC kernel was built from the sources that came with 7.0-RELEASE. > So it looks like the kern_lockf.c from r184227 would be newer. In fact, forthcoming 7.1 contains a new implementation of the advisory locking. The mentioned r184227 was applicable to new code, not older one in 7.0. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 16:26:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B00106564A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:26:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmrueda@diatel.upm.es) Received: from edison.ccupm.upm.es (edison.ccupm.upm.es [138.100.4.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E498FC08 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:26:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmrueda@diatel.upm.es) Received: from smtp.euitt.upm.es (acherontia2.euitt.upm.es [138.100.52.79]) by edison.ccupm.upm.es (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mADGBMus025804 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:11:23 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.euitt.upm.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F6D56442 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:11:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp.euitt.upm.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.euitt.upm.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11124) with ESMTP id SDhx1K4-S5pm for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:11:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from aurora.diatel.upm.es (aurora.diatel.upm.es [138.100.49.70]) (Authenticated sender: jmrueda) by smtp.euitt.upm.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F78456444 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:11:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from aurora.diatel.upm.es (aurora.gridat.rpv [172.20.20.6]) by aurora.diatel.upm.es (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mADGBJgr034297 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:11:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jmrueda@diatel.upm.es) Message-ID: <491C51A7.8080000@diatel.upm.es> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:11:19 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Javier_Mart=EDn_Rueda?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080514) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> In-Reply-To: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: UFS Snapshot lock time X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:26:43 -0000 Kevin Day wrote: > > Is there any documentation out there that explains how to optimize UFS > snapshotting? > > Specifically, we've got a rather big filesystem that I'd like to do > hourly snapshots of. I don't mind how long the snapshot itself takes, > but the amount of time the filesystem is locked is a problem. We're > "dead" for about 12 minutes per snapshotting. > Just a word of caution: I used to do this in some different machines (taking periodic snapshots and leaving a few around), and after a few days or weeks the system would lock up. Any process accessing the filesystem would block in "ufs" or something like that. After rebooting, fsck would report fatal errors and I had to do fsck -y in order to fix them with plenty of scary messages about truncated inodes, unexpected inconsistencies, and so on. This happened in several 6.x releases, on different machines, and both under i386 or amd64. Eventually, I gave up. I strongly suggest you try taking hourly snapshots in a non-production system first for a few weeks, and see if you experience this kind of problems. Sorry to be a party-pooper. It looks as if keeping more than one snapshot eventually is problematic. Taking single snapshots for dump has never been a problem, though. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 16:57:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E284B1065670 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:57:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from toasty@dragondata.com) Received: from tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org [204.9.54.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1418FC19 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:57:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from toasty@dragondata.com) Received: from tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (localhost.your.org [127.0.0.1]) by tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8542D2AD557B; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:57:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=dragondata.com; h=cc :message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references; s=selector1; bh=rbWyn/sb4c5wkJ0A3/Lg/huhoRU=; b=3l7p7tIOZJxeEe4 GZdm8LRCgXEOaIUDNfJbcQNQLRku8XHf80Oe4NRmjSPQ7fA8klg/GSRVFwt5J0le dZmsXfQfhTtj9y+B1qsyy9xBu2mIi6XWxqFqD+JjzCh2X2vkZpQk+4ElOKIbVzCx 2sqkmoFGch3hMu+6pYAq5twifx5g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=dragondata.com; h=cc:message-id :from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:date:references; q=dns; s=selector1; b=tlN GHF1Ed7rMvvmAyOliMVPTnLcBi1kT3LNkCoi9dcs09tMUxxXtR6I2eoUG1BDl1P5 +X4Dr6nFZPRNBAQ8r3Gp4ubsCNiD9MPwyPuiZNxO6K6P0yScEbZpqQek02AyXqXy jzCzEmZ8ORQt561K9kEaLt/Nn1oYU3vCfeCy2LFM= Received: from mail.your.org (server3-a.your.org [64.202.112.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tokyo01.jp.mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A8962AD557A; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:57:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [216.14.99.244] (unknown [216.14.99.244]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.your.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43808A0A406; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:57:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-Id: From: Kevin Day To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Javier_Mart=EDn_Rueda?= In-Reply-To: <491C51A7.8080000@diatel.upm.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:57:44 -0600 References: <6EEFB17C-10DF-4CCD-AB07-83B4B75D033F@dragondata.com> <491C51A7.8080000@diatel.upm.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UFS Snapshot lock time X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:57:49 -0000 On Nov 13, 2008, at 10:11 AM, Javier Mart=EDn Rueda wrote: > Just a word of caution: I used to do this in some different machines =20= > (taking periodic snapshots and leaving a few around), and after a =20 > few days or weeks the system would lock up. Any process accessing =20 > the filesystem would block in "ufs" or something like that. After =20 > rebooting, fsck would report fatal errors and I had to do fsck -y in =20= > order to fix them with plenty of scary messages about truncated =20 > inodes, unexpected inconsistencies, and so on. This happened in =20 > several 6.x releases, on different machines, and both under i386 or =20= > amd64. Eventually, I gave up. > > I strongly suggest you try taking hourly snapshots in a non-=20 > production system first for a few weeks, and see if you experience =20 > this kind of problems. Sorry to be a party-pooper. > > It looks as if keeping more than one snapshot eventually is =20 > problematic. Taking single snapshots for dump has never been a =20 > problem, though. > We definitely saw this problem in 6.x. Any reboot after a snapshot =20 would be a mess of fsck fun for a few hours, usually resulting in us =20 losing stuff. But, 7.0 has cured that for me. So far hourly/daily snapshots on any of the 7.0 boxes we've tried it =20 on has worked, it's just so slow it's unusable. I'd like to think =20 it's just being slow because it's being very careful. :) -- Kevin From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 17:15:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441AF10656A9; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D862A8FC16; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:15:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from phobos.local ([192.168.254.200]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mADGnhcE040068; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:49:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <491C5AA7.1030004@samsco.org> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:49:43 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080313 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Danny Carroll References: <490A782F.9060406@dannysplace.net> <20081031033208.GA21220@icarus.home.lan> <490A849C.7030009@dannysplace.net> <20081031043412.GA22289@icarus.home.lan> <490A8FAD.8060009@dannysplace.net> <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> In-Reply-To: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:15:19 -0000 Danny Carroll wrote: > Danny Carroll wrote: >> Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >>> I'd like to see the performance difference between these scenarios: >>> >>> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >>> - Memory cache enabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >>> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching enabled on disks >>> - Memory cache disabled on Areca, write caching disabled on disks >>> > > > The initial results for a ICH9 vs Areca in JBod mode can be found here: > http://www.dannysplace.net/ZFS-JBODTests.html > > Summary: > 5 Disk ZFS RaidZ array with atime turned off. > ICH9 - block reads avg 400MByte/Sec > ICH9 - block writes avg 150MByte/Sec > ArecaJBOD - block reads avg 300MByte/Sec > ArecaJBOD - block writes avg 160MByte/Sec > > > The Areca seems to be in all except char and block writes. Block reads > are 75% as fast as the ICH9 and rewrites are about 85% as fast. > > There seems to be little difference between enabling and disabling the > disk cache on the Areca. This leads me to two conclusions: > 1. Disabling the write cache does nothing on Seagate drives. > 2. IO to the drives is so slow that a write cache is irrelevant. > > These are just some quick tests that I started with, mainly to compare > the areca bus versus the ich9 bus. If someone has any tuning > suggestions, then now is the time to make them before I migrate the ICH9 > drives to the Areca bus. The Areca controller likely doesn't buffer/cache for disks in JBOD mode, as others in this thread have stated. Without buffering, simple disk controllers will almost always be faster than accelerated raid controllers because the accelerated controllers add more latency between the host and the disk. A simple controller will directly funnel data from the host to the disk as soon as it receives a command. An accelerated controller, however, has a CPU and a mini-OS on it that has to schedule the work coming from the host and handle its own tasks and interrupts. This adds latency that quickly adds up under benchmarks. Your numbers clearly demonstrate this. Scott From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 20:46:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0613B10656A5; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:46:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6A38FC22; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:46:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 203-206-171-212.perm.iinet.net.au ([203.206.171.212] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1L0j5P-000L3h-Fk; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:46:45 +1000 Message-ID: <491C9224.4050407@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:46:28 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nikolay Denev References: <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> <200811130657.GAA26763@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20081113074301.GA13938@icarus.home.lan> <491C32BF.7020805@dannysplace.net> <04B6F041-3052-4650-BE62-817E2B28D034@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <04B6F041-3052-4650-BE62-817E2B28D034@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.69 (build at 08-Jul-2008 08:59:40) X-Date: 2008-11-14 06:46:43 X-Connected-IP: 203.206.171.212:1163 X-Message-Linecount: 34 X-Body-Linecount: 18 X-Message-Size: 1416 X-Body-Size: 608 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 5 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 5 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 203.206.171.212 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ndenev@gmail.com, koitsu@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , Dieter , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:46:47 -0000 Nikolay Denev wrote: > I think some RAID controllers do not use the cache when you export the > disks as pass-thru/jbod, I assumed this is the case but now I am not so sure. > but on some controllers you can workaround this by making > every disk a RAID0(stripe) array with only one disk. > Dunno if that would work on the areca... You can probably do that with this as controller as well. However if I look at the manual I do not see an option to disable the cache for Raid sets. Only to change it from Write-back to Write-Through. I guess write-through is *almost* as if the cache is disabled. -D From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 20:59:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3F51065674; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:59:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF858FC0A; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:59:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 203-206-171-212.perm.iinet.net.au ([203.206.171.212] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1L0jHv-000L89-BJ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:59:41 +1000 Message-ID: <491C9535.3030504@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:59:33 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Long References: <490A782F.9060406@dannysplace.net> <20081031033208.GA21220@icarus.home.lan> <490A849C.7030009@dannysplace.net> <20081031043412.GA22289@icarus.home.lan> <490A8FAD.8060009@dannysplace.net> <491BBF38.9010908@dannysplace.net> <491C5AA7.1030004@samsco.org> In-Reply-To: <491C5AA7.1030004@samsco.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.69 (build at 08-Jul-2008 08:59:40) X-Date: 2008-11-14 06:59:39 X-Connected-IP: 203.206.171.212:1171 X-Message-Linecount: 44 X-Body-Linecount: 29 X-Message-Size: 2326 X-Body-Size: 1532 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 4 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 203.206.171.212 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: scottl@samsco.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, koitsu@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Areca vs. ZFS performance testing. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:59:43 -0000 Scott Long wrote: > The Areca controller likely doesn't buffer/cache for disks in JBOD mode, > as others in this thread have stated. Without buffering, simple disk > controllers will almost always be faster than accelerated raid > controllers because the accelerated controllers add more latency between > the host and the disk. A simple controller will directly funnel data > from the host to the disk as soon as it receives a command. An > accelerated controller, however, has a CPU and a mini-OS on it that has > to schedule the work coming from the host and handle its own tasks and > interrupts. This adds latency that quickly adds up under benchmarks. > Your numbers clearly demonstrate this. That's nice to know. I'm not sure it tells us why the Non-Cached writes were about 8% faster though. The other thing about the "NoWriteCache" test I performed that I neglected to mention yesterday is that I actually panic'd the box (running out of memory). This was the first time I have had that happen with ZFS even though in previous testing (with cache enabled) I punished the box for a lot longer. Perhaps the ZFS caching took over where the disk caching left off? Could that explain why I did not see a negative difference in the numbers between Cache enabled and Cache disabled? One of the questions I wanted to answer for myself was just this: "Does a battery-backed cache on an Areca card protect me when I am in JBOD mode." If the Areca does not buffer/cache in JBOD mode then that means the answer is no. -D From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 10:56:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93851065673 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:56:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antik@bsd.ee) Received: from sorbesgroup.com (mail.sorbesgroup.com [217.159.241.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4BF8FC19 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:56:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antik@bsd.ee) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sorbesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E253C5298A for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:23:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from sorbesgroup.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sorbesgroup.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28743-06 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:23:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from [192.168.0.80] (andrei [192.168.0.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sorbesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E5C3C52980 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:23:00 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:27:34 +0200 From: Andrei Kolu User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Subject: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:56:43 -0000 Hi, due to migration from Windows Server 2003 NTFS filesystem to FreeBSD 7.1Beta2 UFS+softupdates filesystem I encountered strange problem. NTFS formatted filesystem seen in FreeBSD as read-only and exactly 500GB with 28GB free space but after format to UFS disk shows up as 484GB and after copying back files that was on same disk (from ntfs) UFS filesystem shows that I got -33GB (minus?) of free space. What's wrong? Is UFS so inefficient filesystem or it is a bug? Andrei From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 11:17:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893861065672 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:17:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-fs@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1704C8FC13 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-fs@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1L0wfZ-0001WC-FO for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:16:58 +0000 Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr ([161.53.72.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:16:57 +0000 Received: from ivoras by lara.cc.fer.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:16:57 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:17:22 +0100 Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig4A5918546800C398884A8683" X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lara.cc.fer.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080925) In-Reply-To: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Sender: news Subject: Re: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:17:06 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4A5918546800C398884A8683 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrei Kolu wrote: > Hi, >=20 > due to migration from Windows Server 2003 NTFS filesystem to FreeBSD > 7.1Beta2 UFS+softupdates filesystem I encountered strange problem. NTFS= > formatted filesystem seen in FreeBSD as read-only and exactly 500GB wit= h > 28GB free space but after format to UFS disk shows up as 484GB and afte= r > copying back files that was on same disk (from ntfs) UFS filesystem > shows that I got -33GB (minus?) of free space. What's wrong? Is UFS so > inefficient filesystem or it is a bug? UFS reserves a small percentage of the space for the superuser (root) utilities and also for performance benefits. "-33 GB" is telling you that you have used 33 GB of this reserved space, which isn't good if the file system is going to be used in a read-write environment. If the file system is going to be used read-only, you can safely ignore this; otherwise try never to use the reserved space. In particular, userland programs running under non-root user accounts will not see this reserved space and will get "out of disk space" errors when they try to add data to files in such a file system. You can lower the size of this reserved space with "tunefs -m" which will allow non-root users to access more space, but this isn't recommended. Either delete files or buy a bigger drive. --------------enig4A5918546800C398884A8683 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJHV5DldnAQVacBcgRAjJtAKDGp7phOEs323fUypN3kvWLTKBh/wCeKS/a fepWhsimX0CQDI4wVcr9E6U= =yoRX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4A5918546800C398884A8683-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 11:52:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284591065672 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:52:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antik@bsd.ee) Received: from sorbesgroup.com (mail.sorbesgroup.com [217.159.241.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F9C8FC14 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:52:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antik@bsd.ee) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sorbesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F54A3C52992 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:48:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from sorbesgroup.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sorbesgroup.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31515-04 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:48:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from [192.168.0.80] (andrei [192.168.0.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sorbesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD693C52991 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:48:03 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <491D6689.4090800@bsd.ee> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:52:41 +0200 From: Andrei Kolu User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Subject: Re: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:52:39 -0000 Ivan Voras wrote: > Andrei Kolu wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> due to migration from Windows Server 2003 NTFS filesystem to FreeBSD >> 7.1Beta2 UFS+softupdates filesystem I encountered strange problem. NTFS >> formatted filesystem seen in FreeBSD as read-only and exactly 500GB with >> 28GB free space but after format to UFS disk shows up as 484GB and after >> copying back files that was on same disk (from ntfs) UFS filesystem >> shows that I got -33GB (minus?) of free space. What's wrong? Is UFS so >> inefficient filesystem or it is a bug? >> > > UFS reserves a small percentage of the space for the superuser (root) > utilities and also for performance benefits. "-33 GB" is telling you > that you have used 33 GB of this reserved space, which isn't good if the > file system is going to be used in a read-write environment. If the file > system is going to be used read-only, you can safely ignore this; > otherwise try never to use the reserved space. In particular, userland > programs running under non-root user accounts will not see this reserved > space and will get "out of disk space" errors when they try to add data > to files in such a file system. > > You can lower the size of this reserved space with "tunefs -m" which > will allow non-root users to access more space, but this isn't > recommended. Either delete files or buy a bigger drive. > > So, I can say bye-bye to 50GB of space due to UFS filesystem features? IIRC then FreeBSD 4.x got 10% root reservation per filesystem and these days we got 1000 times bigger hard drives, do we need so much reservation (8% now I presume)? This filesystem would be read-only for users but writable to administrator to store large image files from other computers on network. If I understand correctly then this "reserved space" is used to avoid filesystem fragmentation. Can ZFS be more efficient, what if I create volumes per disk? Andrei From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 12:37:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E9A1065676 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:37:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425A88FC13 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:37:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id OAA00468 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:37:32 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <491D710A.9090308@icyb.net.ua> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:37:30 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081106) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: zfs snapdir: from hidden to visible and back again X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:37:36 -0000 I needed to check some files in earlier snapshot, so I did: $ zfs set snapdir=visible tank/usr/local everything went well, I examined /usr/local/.zfs/.... and then did: $ zfs set snapdir=hidden tank/usr/local after that .zfs directory disappeared from output of ls -l /usr/local, BUT: $ mount ... tank/usr/local@upgradeall on /usr/local/.zfs/snapshot/upgradeall (zfs, local, noatime, read-only) This is the snapshot that I examined earlier. Hmm, strange. Then I did: $ umount /usr/local/.zfs/snapshot/upgradeall After that .zfs is not listed in /usr/local and mount command does not list the snapshot anymore. Is this correct behavior, did I have to do umount? Also, even with snapdir=hidden, I still can list snapshots (their contents) if I ls full path with .zfs in it. Is this right? -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 14:07:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F381065675 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:07:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C1D8FC1C for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:07:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id QAA01958 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:07:30 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <491D8621.40101@icyb.net.ua> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:07:29 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081106) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: <491D710A.9090308@icyb.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <491D710A.9090308@icyb.net.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: zfs snapdir: from hidden to visible and back again X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:07:33 -0000 on 14/11/2008 14:37 Andriy Gapon said the following: > Also, even with snapdir=hidden, I still can list snapshots (their > contents) if I ls full path with .zfs in it. > Is this right? And it seems that any snapshot accessed in this way gets automatically added to mounts. This doesn't seem to be reasonable. For example, periodic security script would report suid binaries found in these snapshots, etc. BTW, forgot this: FreeBSD 7.1-PRERELEASE amd64 (r184944) -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 19:47:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845C81065678 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:47:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39AD78FC08 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:47:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id ezqT1a0010vyq2s5A7nmTg; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:47:46 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([69.181.141.110]) by OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id f7ns1a0012P6wsM3R7nseq; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:47:53 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=2NDOBJbNAzK0J1rVbqQA:9 a=9DQVOzi3SQK5vBHCDK--xxg0UocA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C406E33C1C; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:47:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:47:51 -0800 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Andrei Kolu Message-ID: <20081114194751.GA88072@icarus.home.lan> References: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> <491D6689.4090800@bsd.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <491D6689.4090800@bsd.ee> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:47:54 -0000 On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 01:52:41PM +0200, Andrei Kolu wrote: > So, I can say bye-bye to 50GB of space due to UFS filesystem features? > IIRC then FreeBSD 4.x got 10% root reservation per filesystem and these > days we got 1000 times bigger hard drives, do we need so much > reservation (8% now I presume)? man tunefs(8), see -m flag. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 15 01:42:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56584106564A for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:42:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.192]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF89D8FC13 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:42:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mAF1g3hA008647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:42:05 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mAF1g3uS052890; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:42:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mAF1g3xr052889; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:42:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:42:03 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Andrei Kolu Message-ID: <20081115014203.GE51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="b5gNqxB1S1yM7hjW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:42:13 -0000 --b5gNqxB1S1yM7hjW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Nov-14 12:27:34 +0200, Andrei Kolu wrote: >due to migration from Windows Server 2003 NTFS filesystem to FreeBSD=20 >7.1Beta2 UFS+softupdates filesystem I encountered strange problem. NTFS=20 >formatted filesystem seen in FreeBSD as read-only and exactly 500GB with= =20 >28GB free space but after format to UFS disk shows up as 484GB and after= =20 >copying back files that was on same disk (from ntfs) UFS filesystem=20 >shows that I got -33GB (minus?) of free space. What's wrong? Is UFS so=20 >inefficient filesystem or it is a bug? Maybe your data is not a good match for the UFS2 defaults. In the case of UFS2, the size shown as x-Blocks reflects the size of the underlying media, less a free space allowance: 8% [not 10%] by default - see the -m option of tunefs for details of this and why it exists. Out of this, UFS2 allocates file and direcory data blocks, file metadata and filesystem metadata. By default, data blocks are 16KB with 2KB fragments. Each file or directory needs 256 bytes of metadata (its inode). I can't quickly find the size of the filesystem metadata but estimate it is <<1% of the filesystem size. You haven't said what sort of files you are storing but you might find the following suggestions useful: - As others have suggested, reducing minfree will help remove the negative free space. Be careful doing this unless your filesystem is write-once. - If you have a few very large files, rebuild the filesystem with fewer inodes (large '-i' parameter to newfs) and maybe a bigger blocksize. - If you have lots of small files, you might be better off with an 8K/1K filesystem and maybe even UFS1 (which has a smaller inode size). --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --b5gNqxB1S1yM7hjW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkkeKOsACgkQ/opHv/APuIe0wACgje5nEyV1Pa6vBUCkK4hY9H8G Y34Aniir+owb+j5nro7ghHLQM6HTn1HY =O8Ys -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --b5gNqxB1S1yM7hjW-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 15 06:34:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E871065679 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:34:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: from kiwi-computer.com (keira.kiwi-computer.com [63.224.10.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D60A8FC0A for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:34:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: (qmail 23713 invoked by uid 2001); 15 Nov 2008 04:58:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:58:24 -0600 From: "Rick C. Petty" To: Peter Jeremy Message-ID: <20081115045824.GA23464@keira.kiwi-computer.com> References: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> <20081115014203.GE51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20081115014203.GE51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: rick-freebsd2008@kiwi-computer.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:34:42 -0000 Note, the details in this message are meant for the original poster. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:42:03PM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > In the case of UFS2, the size shown as x-Blocks reflects the size of > the underlying media, less a free space allowance: 8% [not 10%] by > default - see the -m option of tunefs for details of this and why it > exists. Out of this, UFS2 allocates file and direcory data blocks, > file metadata and filesystem metadata. By default, data blocks are > 16KB with 2KB fragments. Each file or directory needs 256 bytes of > metadata (its inode). I can't quickly find the size of the filesystem > metadata but estimate it is <<1% of the filesystem size. Not true. With the current defaults, and not including the 320k reserved at the beginning (for bootblocks, etc.) nor the few MB at the end to align with a cylinder boundary, UFS2 takes around 3% space for its metadata. Almost all of this is inode allocation. Most people don't need nearly this many inodes, but newfs(8) chooses too many instead of too few because running out of inodes is more frustrating (I've done it before and I agree). But you can change this default, and I do this for all my filesystems. Specifying a low inode density can get you into trouble but can reduce the metadata consumption to around 0.3% of the filesystem size. I haven't done the math, but but it seems that NTFS uses about 12.5% (at best) for storing filesystem metadata. Another big difference is that NTFS slows down considerably at about 75% full whereas UFS and UFS2 perform very well to just past 92%. Also NTFS does have much flexibility in being able to control the amount of filesystem metadata. With the price of drives nowadays, I find complaints about metadata waste particularly annoying. Still, I suggest that the OP should use the inode density parameter to newfs if if insisting that UFS wastes too much space. > - As others have suggested, reducing minfree will help remove the negative > free space. Be careful doing this unless your filesystem is write-once. I wouldn't bother. The performance loss is so great that you're better off buying a larger drive. I have gone into the minfree threshold before but it still beats a similarly-full NTFS partition in terms of performance. > - If you have a few very large files, rebuild the filesystem with fewer > inodes (large '-i' parameter to newfs) and maybe a bigger blocksize. If you know the sizes and numbers of files in advance, it's easy to do the math here. Play with "newfs -N -i " until the number of cylinder groups times the number of inodes (per cylinder group, in case the output is not clear) is higher than the total number of files plus directories you will be storing. I always add an extra margin just to be safe. One warning about using this option-- if you ever intend to use growfs(8), be warned that growfs does not have a -i option nor does it account for the number of inodes you previously specified. It's easy to push the numbers such that a growfs will actually reduce your free space below the -8% and thus fail. I don't see much point in using growfs in general; you either are migrating a volume to a large drive (in which case you're better off newfs-ing and using rsync) or you're trying to fiddle with an existing drive that is probably too small for your needs. I find growfs more useful for working with keyfobs or md(4) devices. > - If you have lots of small files, you might be better off with an 8K/1K > filesystem and maybe even UFS1 (which has a smaller inode size). If you're planning on fiddling with the block and fragment sizes, I would do this before adjusting the -i option, since both affect the outcome of the inode density. I find these parameters harder to configure. You need to know your typical file size (not just average size). If your smaller files are much smaller than the block size, then it makes sense to lower these sizes. If you have fewer but larger files, it might make sense to increase them. It helps to understand how the files are allocated on the filesystem. A file always allocates full blocks (each block being 8 fragments) to store its data except for the last block. If a full block isn't needed, the file allocates the number of fragments needed, leaving the remaining fragments of that block to be used by the last block of another file. This really helps when you have a lot of small files but not as much when your files are large. Another thing I recommend if you have (or are planning to have) a number of filesystems is to keep track of which newfs parameters you used to make each file system. This helps you in planning future filesystems and helps you recreate the original filesystems (in case of a restore from backup or if you plan to move a filesystem to another disk). For example, I created a filesystem to store some videos I recorded from VHS and estimated about 1000 inodes were needed, with an average file size of 300 MB. I created this filesystem using "newfs -U -f 8192 -b 65536 -i 314572800". I still got many more inodes than I needed but consumed less space with metadata. HTH, -- Rick C. Petty From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 15 22:06:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2E41065676 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:06:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61D08FC2C for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:06:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mAFM6LKV019524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:06:25 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mAFM6LUg020392; Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:06:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mAFM6Iqw020391; Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:06:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:06:18 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: "Rick C. Petty" Message-ID: <20081115220617.GF51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <491D5296.3000600@bsd.ee> <20081115014203.GE51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20081115045824.GA23464@keira.kiwi-computer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TYecfFk8j8mZq+dy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20081115045824.GA23464@keira.kiwi-computer.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Filesystem size and free space X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:06:36 -0000 --TYecfFk8j8mZq+dy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Nov-14 22:58:24 -0600, "Rick C. Petty" wrote: >> 16KB with 2KB fragments. Each file or directory needs 256 bytes of >> metadata (its inode). I can't quickly find the size of the filesystem >> metadata but estimate it is <<1% of the filesystem size. > >Not true. With the current defaults, and not including the 320k reserved >at the beginning (for bootblocks, etc.) nor the few MB at the end to align >with a cylinder boundary, UFS2 takes around 3% space for its metadata. >Almost all of this is inode allocation. Note that I explicitly differentiated between the inodes (file metadata) and the rest of the filesystem metadata - superblock replicas, cylinder group headers, free block bitmaps, etc. Inodes do have several % reserved for them by default but the other space is very small. > Most people don't need nearly this >many inodes, but newfs(8) chooses too many instead of too few because runn= ing >out of inodes is more frustrating (I've done it before and I agree). Also, UFS generally tries to allocate a file in the same CG as its initial directory and lots of spare inodes help here. >With the price of drives nowadays, I find complaints about metadata waste= =20 >particularly annoying. Still, I suggest that the OP should use the inode >density parameter to newfs if if insisting that UFS wastes too much space. It is an issue where you are trying to move data from one FS to another whilst reusing the same physical space - which I gather the OP was. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --TYecfFk8j8mZq+dy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkkfR9kACgkQ/opHv/APuIeg7gCgtsRU+yOJuc7O91KNv2oczGCT RP4AniDNxW6YhNHRlIC7zogxcQO5upQT =J0/M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TYecfFk8j8mZq+dy--