From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 00:56:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3891065675; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:56:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from tinker.exit.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:47e::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BE38FC23; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:56:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from jill.exit.com (jill.exit.com [IPv6:2001:470:80f4:0:2e0:81ff:fe33:7e9a]) by tinker.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6R0pCqH093668; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:51:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=exit.com; s=tinker; t=1217119872; bh=9Jo8uSZEw6igWpUe3LrNXqW8DNhUaorRJeuGpB8ljf4=; h=Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:Message-Id:Mime-Version; b=ooplDXiz rRJAjX0H77VmPyB5/5+RvgGs0cldcuOCkkdnz7VP0Bv9MD7SxxZqhu1OlL3ubuupzp/ pUbqoX0H5ZLg5Ae4Uy54vNqQcZb8xEbMDYmEvAMnPNBkEL5/9LmzxOEezUMEGjsHkEg 0PIXESouH+DLnV8ZyZZ6urGe13gZE= Received: from jill.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6R0uTCS038426; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6R0uSuA038425; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:56:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) X-Authentication-Warning: jill.exit.com: frank set sender to frank@exit.com using -f From: Frank Mayhar To: John Nielsen In-Reply-To: <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Exit Consulting Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:56:27 -0700 Message-Id: <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93/7404/Sun Jun 8 09:19:18 2008 on tinker.exit.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: frank@exit.com List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:56:33 -0000 On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 18:02 -0400, John Nielsen wrote: > On Thursday 24 July 2008, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > > read -mobile). Turns out the issue is a known problem, although one that Dell is apparently refusing to own up to, with overheating causing problems with the power connector on the 5150 and 5160 motherboards and often with other nearby components as well. Annoying, and makes me want to stay away from Dell. > I haven't played with one hands-on, but the laptop I was going to buy until > $work supplied a different one was a Fujitsu Lifebook E8410. It has a few > customization options if you get it from Fujitsu directly. Among these are > Intel graphics and Atheros wireless, 2 of the main things I was looking for > for good FreeBSD hw support. After reading all the replies I'm actually taking your suggestion and going with Fujitsu, specifically the E8420. I'm getting the NVidia option and I'll be running in i386 mode until FreeBSD can handle the nvidia requirements for amd64 mode. Atheros wireless, WSXGA+ option and 2GB upgradable to 4. I'll keep my fingers crossed with regard to working suspend/resume but again I'm not holding my breath. They claim that with the 8-cell main and 6-cell modular battery it has a 5:30 runtime; we'll see. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 01:27:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A85106564A; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:27:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21068FC0C; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:27:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m6R1OaAi030800; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:24:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20080726.192449.-457440741.imp@bsdimp.com> To: dougb@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <48877965.7080408@FreeBSD.org> References: <48877965.7080408@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: doug@polands.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wireless access points: consumer, commercial, or DIY? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:27:36 -0000 In message: <48877965.7080408@FreeBSD.org> Doug Barton writes: : Finally, Warner posted a good article on how to roll your own with : FreeBSD: : http://bsdimp.blogspot.com/2008/07/quick-guide-to-freebsd-hostap-for.html This article is just the barest basics on how to do things on FreeBSD-current with the VAP stuff that Sam did. I did it as a hack so I could 'tether' my iphone to my laptop in an area that I didn't need to worry about security at all. I'd never deploy that at my home :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 20:34:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB1C106566B for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jolly@www.thecoffinclub.com) Received: from mail.thecoffinclub.com (thecoffinclub.com [200.46.208.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A486D8FC1C for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jolly@www.thecoffinclub.com) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by www.thecoffinclub.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6142E84A2FC for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from www.thecoffinclub.com ([200.46.208.155]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21924-06 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:39:06 -0300 (ADT) Received: by www.thecoffinclub.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id EB67A84A2F5; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:39:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:38:58 -0400 From: Jacob Frelinger To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080725113858.09133e6b@thecoffinclub.com> In-Reply-To: <20080725155502.Q21557@fledge.watson.org> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <20080725155502.Q21557@fledge.watson.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/XTTgnY6IWX2W4tAKJaPsTqi"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:34:27 -0000 --Sig_/XTTgnY6IWX2W4tAKJaPsTqi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:56:11 +0100 (BST) Robert Watson wrote: > Likewise, I've had difficulty with the z60t, which has suspend issues > (it doesn't), and occasional atheros flakiness that I have been > meaning to bug Sam about but haven't had time to do so as yet. > Sadly, the battery failed quite quickly once the warranty expired, so > I barely use it anymore, which is something of a shame but left me > with a bad impression. just to report, my z60t (2511-HAU) suspends and resumes pretty well (with the correct kernel config, mainly removing usb and sound). It only fails to suspend and resume properly about 1 in 20 times. All in all I've been happy with my z60t and have ordered a t61 to replace it (if lenovo will ever ship the darn thing, but that is a different issue then hardware). --=20 Jacob "I'm Brainy For Zombie Pops" Frelinger=20 Jolly at TheCoffinClub dot Com=20 http://www.thecoffinclub.com=20 --Sig_/XTTgnY6IWX2W4tAKJaPsTqi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFIifOSO887GYmMIQIRAk6CAKCsbuNPRvOHDSLqUYEOTe768aVY8QCcCXEb YVPxjLKkOe59uHltb57h+nc= =UEwQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/XTTgnY6IWX2W4tAKJaPsTqi-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 27 21:23:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0408106564A for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:23:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.233]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A998FC1E for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:23:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c8so3283937wra.27 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=OjbpOlGDJ0fpCTPatZRGq44HLyGugnSNSRqQtAWdG3M=; b=uni9V7T+nB4b6F+ebIwmQwiGIuHIx/SWjfH8Abpcj5PzqIllToCcIBX4WgjJApUPjT q8sHqkye5iTbxFZj1zFTUSG5Le64hnHjKDtOiKvzp+JjNfGoquuUoBim/ckerD1tS83m 79bzX9r5iL+OVIiLZ2JgUZ4MkMWyKdKp5Im9U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=LuxCNMEROQCGFNyFeqv9HFh9lfTXm1ZCXeiTm1AJNE9QF/veuOs32BT+04pXvd52Vy Mz0AUcJRK+bLQ5UeBYI2TT0ltSiG5WPmKcH3fbnuzZ/ryidsEeAYu/wzUdUOkT775CEW XhRbyNUk9H7ie2q6qTUBp4uvPR1dTZEki3DGg= Received: by 10.90.73.17 with SMTP id v17mr6399034aga.7.1217193826500; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.12.12 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:23:46 -0400 From: "Zaphod Beeblebrox" To: frank@exit.com In-Reply-To: <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Nielsen , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:23:47 -0000 On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > After reading all the replies I'm actually taking your suggestion and > going with Fujitsu, specifically the E8420. I'm getting the NVidia > option and I'll be running in i386 mode until FreeBSD can handle the > nvidia requirements for amd64 mode. Atheros wireless, WSXGA+ option and > 2GB upgradable to 4. I'll keep my fingers crossed with regard to > working suspend/resume but again I'm not holding my breath. They claim > that with the 8-cell main and 6-cell modular battery it has a 5:30 > runtime; we'll see. Having had several fujitsu's before the current run of Dell laptops, I always found them better than average for FreeBSD support. Even (last one I had) suspending to RAM. The Dells I've currently been buying are very high end models and my impression of Dell is that their cheap models are not worth bothering with, their middle of the price range models are mostly acceptable with some lemons and their high end systems are very well done. That said, an OS-level suspend-to-disk would be an awesome summer-of-code project. I was thinking that beyond swapping everything out (probably easy enough) and providing a clue to a newly booted OS that the processes had to be reactiveated, we'd need a method of remembering what file handles were connected to so that they could be "reopened" (in this, I envision some type of text string... maybe a URI/URL). As a bonus, this would give us process migration between systems, too (assuming the URI were portable between self same systems --- which isn't horribly hard with nfs mounts and whatnot). From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 00:31:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D7E1065678 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:31:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 04.16.258368443.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com) Received: from vmta13.myspace.com (vmta13.myspace.com [204.16.33.76]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC6C8FC17 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:31:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 04.16.258368443.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; s=pmta; d=message.myspace.com; h=mime-version:from:to:reply-to:date:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; i=04.16.258368443.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com; bh=7m6HdZisQscKLZyW5DJKw2xbfK8=; b=xrc+2uwojqEqGhFyDxbj3Mnbnc+YxamAEOUHIWcu5OaTKsOoukGsAFc2WuT5EVCx20714QEW+QuS hYyNO1aNg1dv4uC8/+4LVnnJjrfFloRzzmDjEGGLQpjYXdAneMuinldJr72tOY91AN2vCz97n1Tz amlc6+4APkHhBOCXJNw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; q=dns; s=pmta; d=message.myspace.com; b=mwZTyR4E6ImV0G/h5vSkyL2ErCASieDcCu3y7JLmwXStVxOus+9PmBHM1KQzquAm2aMfqH6eZXQo CVRlDeUIeobV+aGyhyaUeFnuaUhNlhQgpNvOJJdJ0T96528j+pTLslLORrhtLhM7tlSv+iX6phgq msHjdxhY4pwK6YI+ZQI=; Received: from els2mmmsmlr0006 (127.0.0.1) by vmta13.myspace.com (PowerMTA(TM) v3.2r23) id hhpiei0f2jkt for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:16:37 -0700 (envelope-from <04.16.258368443.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com>) x-campaignid: MySpace : 16 mime-version: 1.0 from: "www.GirlPR.net Friday Afterwork Party Manhattan at MySpace" <04.16.258368443.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com> to: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org date: 28 Jul 2008 17:16:37 -0700 content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 content-transfer-encoding: base64 Message-Id: <20080729003137.BDC6C8FC17@mx1.freebsd.org> Subject: www.GirlPR.net Friday Afterwork Party Manhattan has sent you a photo from MySpace.com! X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "www.GirlPR.net Friday Afterwork Party Manhattan at MySpace" <04.16.258368443.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com> List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:31:38 -0000 VGhpcyBpcyBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgZnJvbSB3d3cuR2lybFBSLm5ldCBGcmlkYXkgQWZ0ZXJ3b3Jr IFBhcnR5IE1hbmhhdHRhbjoNCg0KDQoNCnd3dy5HaXJsUFIubmV0IEZyaWRheSBBZnRlcndv cmsgUGFydHkgTWFuaGF0dGFuIHRob3VnaHQgeW91IG1pZ2h0IGVuam95IGNoZWNraW5nIG91 dCB0aGlzIHBob3RvIG9uIE15U3BhY2UuY29tISAgDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9jb2xsZWN0Lm15c3Bh Y2UuY29tL3JlbG9jLmNmbT9jPTE4JmZ1c2VhY3Rpb249dmlld0ltYWdlJmltYWdlSUQ9MTA4 MTk1NjMmZnJpZW5kSUQ9MjU4MzY4NDQzJmlkPQ0KDQoNCldoYXQgaXMgTXlTcGFjZS5jb20/ DQoNCk15U3BhY2UuY29tIGlzIGFuIG9ubGluZSBjb21tdW5pdHkgd2hlcmUgbWVtYmVycyBz aGFyZSBwaG90b3MsIHZpZGVvcywgYmxvZ3MsIGFuZCBpbnRlcmVzdHMgd2l0aCBhIGdyb3dp bmcgbmV0d29yayBvZiBtdXR1YWwgZnJpZW5kcy4gQ3JlYXRlIGEgcHJvZmlsZSBGUkVFIG9u IE15U3BhY2UgYW5kIHN0YXJ0IGNvbm5lY3Rpbmcgd2l0aCBvbGQgYW5kIG5ldyBmcmllbmRz IQ0KDQpGaW5kIG91dCBtb3JlIGFib3V0IE15U3BhY2U6DQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubXlzcGFj ZS5jb20NCg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNClRoaXMgZW1haWwgd2Fz IHNlbnQgYnkgc29tZW9uZSB3aG8ga25vd3MgeW91IG9uIE15U3BhY2UuY29tLg0KDQpJZiB5 b3Ugd2FudCB0byBibG9jayBhbnkgZW1haWxzIGZyb20gTXlTcGFjZSBtZW1iZXJzIGluIHRo ZSBmdXR1cmUsIHlvdSBjYW4gY2xpY2sgaGVyZToNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5teXNwYWNlLmNv bS9pbmRleC5jZm0/ZnVzZWFjdGlvbj1ibG9jayZpaWQ9ezB9DQoNCk9yIHNlbmQgYSBzaW5n bGUgYmxhbmsgZW1haWwgd2l0aCB0aGUgc3ViamVjdCBsaW5lICJCTE9DSyIgdG86DQoNCnBy aXZhY3lAbXlzcGFjZS5jb20NCg0KWW91IGNhbiBhbHNvIGJsb2NrIGZ1dHVyZSBlbWFpbCBv ciBkaXJlY3QgYW55IG90aGVyIGlucXVpcmllcyBieSByZWd1bGFyIHBvc3RhbCBtYWlsIHRv Og0KDQpNeVNwYWNlLCBJbmMuDQo4MzkxIEJldmVybHkgQmx2ZC4gIzM0OQ0KTG9zIEFuZ2Vs ZXMsIENBIDkwMDQ4DQpVU0ENCg0KwqkyMDAzLTIwMDggTXlTcGFjZS5jb20uIEFsbCBSaWdo dHMgUmVzZXJ2ZWQuDQo= From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 08:17:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428311065676 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:17:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: from sigma.octantis.com.au (ns2.octantis.com.au [207.44.189.124]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009FA8FC27 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: (qmail 11735 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2008 03:17:05 -0500 Received: from 203-166-248-146.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO ayiin) (203.166.248.146) by sigma.octantis.com.au with (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 29 Jul 2008 03:17:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:17:00 +1000 From: Norberto Meijome To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080729181700.5e28db8d@ayiin> In-Reply-To: <5635aa0d0807252121la3c7e00s41829d373c8878d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <5635aa0d0807252121la3c7e00s41829d373c8878d5@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:17:06 -0000 On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:21:08 +0700 "Outback Dingo" wrote: > IBM Z series, my Z60M Titanium, runs great and still actually looks brand > new being 2+ years old +1 > the X, T and Z series laptops are all decent, i cant say on quality, im > still using the one i got almost > three years ago with no issues. 1680x1050 on a 15'4 wide wcreen is nice > also. really? what card have yours got? and how many bpp? mine has the ATI (yes, with all of 128 MB graphic memory ) doesn't pick more than 1280x800 (which is fine too, of course...but 1680 is much better). Most of the components in mine work well (including the fingerprint scanner :P though not in active use till it's PAM-pluggable ). Suspend is quite flaky ( dead :P ) while I have DRI enabled...i think it is a known issue. B _________________________ {Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome Exhilaration is that feeling you get just after a great idea hits you, and just before you realize what is wrong with it. I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet. Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been Warned. From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 29 08:29:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F5A1065672; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:29:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vova@sw.ru) Received: from relay.sw.ru (mailhub.sw.ru [195.214.232.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B38198FC26; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:29:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vova@sw.ru) Received: from vbook.fbsd.ru ([10.30.1.111]) (authenticated bits=0) by relay.sw.ru (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m6T8TQHG027279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:29:28 +0400 (MSD) Received: from vova by vbook.fbsd.ru with local (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KNkaE-0002Fb-No; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:29:26 +0400 From: Vladimir Grebenschikov To: "Alexandre \"Sunny\" Kovalenko" In-Reply-To: <1217080043.1167.2.camel@RabbitsDen> References: <1216991500.1765.35.camel@localhost> <1217080043.1167.2.camel@RabbitsDen> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: SWsoft Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:29:26 +0400 Message-Id: <1217320166.1830.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Sender: Vladimir Grebenschikov Cc: current , freebsd-mobile Subject: Re: Hard lockup CURRENT lockup with ath0 and no wireless networks in proximity X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: vova@fbsd.ru List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:29:31 -0000 On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 09:47 -0400, Alexandre "Sunny" Kovalenko wrote: > > And I've noticed that attempt to start wireless (start of > > wpa_supplicatnt) when there is no wireless networks in proximity leads > > to hard lockup of notebook, even DDB can't be called. ... > > Once I've noticed extremely high interrupt rate before lockup. > > > > In case when there is wireless networks around everything goes as > > expected. > > > > Any hints will be very appreciated. > > > Are you running powerd? And if yes, does the problem disappear if you > stop powerd before starting wpa_supplicant? > > If both answers are "Yes", see: Both are yes > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=474718+0 > +/usr/local/www/db/text/2008/freebsd-stable/20080713.freebsd-stable Will check and try patch, when I'll be in area without wireless coverage. Thanks > HTH, -- Vladimir B. Grebenschikov vova@fbsd.ru From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 00:09:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2494B106567D for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:09:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@ixsystems.com) Received: from smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.97]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0DF648FC15 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:09:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@ixsystems.com) Received: (qmail 6133 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2008 23:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.84?) (syndivision@att.net@99.0.6.240 with plain) by smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2008 23:42:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-Id: From: Matt Olander To: Jeremy Messenger In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:42:23 -0700 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:09:06 -0000 On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar > wrote: > >> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >> sigh, >> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions >> from >> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >> read -mobile). >> >> My criteria: >> * 3D acceleration. >> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >> anyway). >> * At least 15" screen. >> * Decent power consumption. >> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >> >> Nice to have: >> * Dual core. >> * >4GB memory. >> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >> breath). >> >> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it >> for >> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >> ordering/installing it. > > Maybe you can wait for this: > > http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some things for ACPI. I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the general public in September. best, -matt > > > I didn't compare your requirements in there, thought. > > Cheers, > Mezz > > > -- > mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD GNOME Team > http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mobile-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " -- Matt Olander CTO, iXsystems - "Servers for Open Source" http://www.iXsystems.com Public Relations, The FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org BSD on the Desktop! http://www.pcbsd.org Phone: (408)943-4100 ext. 113 Fax: (408)943-4101 From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 00:29:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB901106566C for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:29:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sonic2000gr@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.157]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C518FC0A for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:29:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sonic2000gr@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so91887fgb.35 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:29:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=k7OvZ6xEtzXUDPF2yAjxlqmD96JK06fay/bx1cydVF8=; b=t/R01I+pHGYKSGFRH18CNB+jwuDFaw4HcpbH+YDpOh4AbsWQkOCUY04b4ZC4zlSQ7M BEjhs8iaUvX0HcZL3ek6QdZ/flTGUN87bxW4QTtU87ghhZrueReHR4oDQhXjFZwc6hpS T8oArci6ocOka1NogI7hkE4TrLevvl9EGBOmw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=HbpoL6KTaL+8cNxICljoPDiujNfa+xxUSPyqXLyv8AZf41EqFC7REW66FtBiw4RTqZ 8fFd54RD1Crt5JyhTUqtyvz5CCCavRBeeJ2z56quyvZZSGsO3us0HboiVkpcsrVlVghN HRtUsRBeiY+MfYs35CaBvbytPljBXA9I0Cdgw= Received: by 10.86.91.12 with SMTP id o12mr4256682fgb.1.1217377757429; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlantis.dyndns.org ( [79.130.48.30]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l19sm295370fgb.7.2008.07.29.17.29.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <488FB5D7.9010609@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:29:11 +0300 From: Manolis Kiagias User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080703) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Olander References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:29:19 -0000 Matt Olander wrote: > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > >> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >> >>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>> sigh, >>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>> read -mobile). >>> >>> My criteria: >>> * 3D acceleration. >>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>> anyway). >>> * At least 15" screen. >>> * Decent power consumption. >>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>> >>> Nice to have: >>> * Dual core. >>> * >4GB memory. >>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>> breath). >>> >>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>> ordering/installing it. >> >> Maybe you can wait for this: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the > OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some > things for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and > we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the > general public in September. > > best, > -matt > > > Many people will be interested. I surely want one! Will you be able to ship to European addresses as well? Cheers, Manolis From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 00:41:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820DB106564A for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:41:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 04.16.381063450.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com) Received: from vmta13.myspace.com (vmta13.myspace.com [204.16.33.76]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B29F8FC17 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:41:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 04.16.381063450.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; s=pmta; d=message.myspace.com; h=MIME-Version:From:To:Reply-To:Date:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; i=04.16.381063450.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com; bh=PtQNJvoJzkRzG6zTT9pIohVJ5DE=; b=ZWsfGFw5MocBgxzRBJ2pMSyD6J+0ATOpu5BolJjLehhHD6LE8QWcTJB64+0yt9AfPXABObFDW0Wh 0cfcKIP2fgE4HHi3hn73CmsrFg2qkbT4tZ5kwLnZySd3rIT5SFpKeTScBCyRTa3kdMJr4U2G1e7G NSOmON3hibtah93sb60= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; q=dns; s=pmta; d=message.myspace.com; b=w0KTCfoGoZY3IcxJ2an30DUDzhYeI4F9Y8+qUtjpdISkj2Uk4v60fP8m3FdaGIzAHum7mc3TJfIK L00MbCrVpdzN585VZM3bkVqTC97/3TMUbo5997KKXYX1WL7/cRCgarx9Ht5aazZWOcCznJbSXLJ+ Zn+7cI14iX8X6skqR/A=; Received: from els2mmmsmlr0003 (127.0.0.1) by vmta13.myspace.com (PowerMTA(TM) v3.2r23) id hhusbu0f2gc6 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:26:32 -0700 (envelope-from <04.16.381063450.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com>) x-campaignid: MySpace : 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "www.VipGuestlist.com is for Sale at MySpace" <04.16.381063450.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Date: 29 Jul 2008 17:26:32 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: <20080730004135.5B29F8FC17@mx1.freebsd.org> Subject: www.VipGuestlist.com is for Sale has sent you a photo from MySpace.com! X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "www.VipGuestlist.com is for Sale at MySpace" <04.16.381063450.667265656273642D6D6F62696C6540667265656273642E6F7267@message.myspace.com> List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:41:35 -0000 VGhpcyBpcyBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgZnJvbSB3d3cuVmlwR3Vlc3RsaXN0LmNvbSBpcyBmb3IgU2Fs ZToNCg0KDQoNCnd3dy5WaXBHdWVzdGxpc3QuY29tIGlzIGZvciBTYWxlIHRob3VnaHQgeW91 IG1pZ2h0IGVuam95IGNoZWNraW5nIG91dCB0aGlzIHBob3RvIG9uIE15U3BhY2UuY29tISAg DQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9jb2xsZWN0Lm15c3BhY2UuY29tL3JlbG9jLmNmbT9jPTE4JmZ1c2VhY3Rp b249dmlld0ltYWdlJmltYWdlSUQ9MTI2OTE0JmZyaWVuZElEPTM4MTA2MzQ1MCZpZD0NCg0K DQpXaGF0IGlzIE15U3BhY2UuY29tPw0KDQpNeVNwYWNlLmNvbSBpcyBhbiBvbmxpbmUgY29t bXVuaXR5IHdoZXJlIG1lbWJlcnMgc2hhcmUgcGhvdG9zLCB2aWRlb3MsIGJsb2dzLCBhbmQg aW50ZXJlc3RzIHdpdGggYSBncm93aW5nIG5ldHdvcmsgb2YgbXV0dWFsIGZyaWVuZHMuIENy ZWF0ZSBhIHByb2ZpbGUgRlJFRSBvbiBNeVNwYWNlIGFuZCBzdGFydCBjb25uZWN0aW5nIHdp dGggb2xkIGFuZCBuZXcgZnJpZW5kcyENCg0KRmluZCBvdXQgbW9yZSBhYm91dCBNeVNwYWNl Og0KDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm15c3BhY2UuY29tDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLQ0KDQpUaGlzIGVtYWlsIHdhcyBzZW50IGJ5IHNvbWVvbmUgd2hvIGtub3dzIHlvdSBv biBNeVNwYWNlLmNvbS4NCg0KSWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gYmxvY2sgYW55IGVtYWlscyBmcm9t IE15U3BhY2UgbWVtYmVycyBpbiB0aGUgZnV0dXJlLCB5b3UgY2FuIGNsaWNrIGhlcmU6DQoN Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubXlzcGFjZS5jb20vaW5kZXguY2ZtP2Z1c2VhY3Rpb249YmxvY2smaWlk PXswfQ0KDQpPciBzZW5kIGEgc2luZ2xlIGJsYW5rIGVtYWlsIHdpdGggdGhlIHN1YmplY3Qg bGluZSAiQkxPQ0siIHRvOg0KDQpwcml2YWN5QG15c3BhY2UuY29tDQoNCllvdSBjYW4gYWxz byBibG9jayBmdXR1cmUgZW1haWwgb3IgZGlyZWN0IGFueSBvdGhlciBpbnF1aXJpZXMgYnkg cmVndWxhciBwb3N0YWwgbWFpbCB0bzoNCg0KTXlTcGFjZSwgSW5jLg0KODM5MSBCZXZlcmx5 IEJsdmQuICMzNDkNCkxvcyBBbmdlbGVzLCBDQSA5MDA0OA0KVVNBDQoNCsKpMjAwMy0yMDA4 IE15U3BhY2UuY29tLiBBbGwgUmlnaHRzIFJlc2VydmVkLg0K From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 02:06:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B037C1065678 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:06:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: from sigma.octantis.com.au (ns2.octantis.com.au [207.44.189.124]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5B68FC27 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:06:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: (qmail 15319 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2008 21:06:40 -0500 Received: from 203-166-248-146.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO ayiin) (203.166.248.146) by sigma.octantis.com.au with (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 29 Jul 2008 21:06:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:06:35 +1000 From: Norberto Meijome To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080730120635.067cb571@ayiin> In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:06:40 -0000 On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:42:23 -0700 Matt Olander wrote: > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and > we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the > general public in September. Great stuff,Matt. It says FBSD 6, but I would hope 7 would be run as well (even if not directly supported by iX )? will u be shipping to Oz? B _________________________ {Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome "Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it" Richard Feynman I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet. Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been Warned. From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 02:07:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2DC106567B; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:07:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from knowtree@aloha.com) Received: from relay.pixi.com (relay.pixi.com [206.127.224.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4248FC18; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:07:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from knowtree@aloha.com) Received: from yoda.pixi.com (yoda.pixi.com [206.127.224.41]) by relay.pixi.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m6U0vnUe025806; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:57:49 -1000 (HST) Received: from webmail.pixi.com (yoda.pixi.com [206.127.224.120] (may be forged)) by yoda.pixi.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m6U0vmNU012058; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:57:48 -1000 Message-Id: <200807300057.m6U0vmNU012058@yoda.pixi.com> To: Matt Olander , Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org From: knowtree@aloha.com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:57:48 HST X-Posting-IP: 141.190.32.71 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.2.19 Cc: Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:07:16 -0000 > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > > > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar > > wrote: > > > >> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, > >> sigh, .. > > > > Maybe you can wait for this: > > > > http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the > OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some > things for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and > we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the > general public in September. Matt - I may have just found my next laptop. A few questions: 1. Case size? 2. Weight? (It sounds heavy.) 3. Built-in camera? Specs? 4. Why FreeBSD 6.x and not 7.x? 5. Built-in modem not a winmodem? 6. Suspend will work, reliably, including networking? Please put me on your mailing list, assuming you have one. Gary Dunn Honolulu Open Slate Project http://openslate.net/ 73 BMW E9 (3.0 CS) 2213583 (rust repair research project) http://e9erust.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 13:32:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD41106564A for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:32:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 452F58FC0C for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:32:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1C4208E; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:17:01 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Matt Olander References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:17:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Matt Olander's message of "Tue\, 29 Jul 2008 16\:42\:23 -0700") Message-ID: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:32:52 -0000 Matt Olander writes: > [re http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html] Will it be available with a big FreeBSD logo on the lid? :) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 16:33:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B821065680; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:33:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) Received: from mailomat.net (mailomat.net [81.20.89.254]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A32D8FC1A; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:33:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) X-Mailomat-SpamCatcher-Score: 50 [XX] X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] Received: from [194.39.192.125] (account bnc-mail@mailrelay.mailomat.net HELO bnc.net) by mailomat.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTPSA id 47380045; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:33:24 +0200 X-SpamCatcher-Score: 50 [XX] Received: from [194.39.192.126] (account ap HELO wasabi.wlan.bnc.net) by bnc.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTPSA id 3283472; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:27:23 +0200 Message-Id: From: Achim Patzner To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-753757087; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:27:21 +0200 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:33:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2-753757087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 30.07.2008 um 15:17 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav: > Matt Olander writes: >> [re http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html] > Will it be available with a big FreeBSD logo on the lid? :) If you need something like that, a partially eaten white apple would be much more appropriate anyway. (Which reminds me - I didn't understand the motivation behind the original question either... Even more and more Linux users are giving up running it on their Macs, installing Mac OS instead. Looks contagious...) Achim --Apple-Mail-2-753757087-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 16:40:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C238A1065675; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:40:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884D58FC22; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:40:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066B120A3; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:40:13 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Achim Patzner References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:40:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Achim Patzner's message of "Wed\, 30 Jul 2008 17\:27\:21 +0200") Message-ID: <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:40:15 -0000 Achim Patzner writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > Matt Olander writes: > > > [re http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html] > > Will it be available with a big FreeBSD logo on the lid? :) > If you need something like that, a partially eaten white apple would > be much more appropriate anyway. (Which reminds me - I didn't > understand the motivation behind the original question either... Even > more and more Linux users are giving up running it on their Macs, > installing Mac OS instead. Looks contagious...) I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking about iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 20:20:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD79F1065674; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:20:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) Received: from mailomat.net (mailomat.net [81.20.89.254]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154E98FC12; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:20:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) X-Mailomat-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] Received: from [194.39.192.125] (account bnc-mail@mailrelay.mailomat.net HELO bnc.net) by mailomat.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTPSA id 47382181; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:33 +0200 X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Received: from [194.39.192.126] (account ap HELO wasabi.wlan.bnc.net) by bnc.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTPSA id 3283548; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:29 +0200 Message-Id: <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> From: Achim Patzner To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-9-771343582; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:28 +0200 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:20:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9-771343582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav: > I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking =20 > about > iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me even more. Achim --Apple-Mail-9-771343582-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 20:51:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104A9106574C for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:51:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from llc2w@virginia.edu) Received: from fork8.mail.virginia.edu (fork8.mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56298FC18 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:51:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from llc2w@virginia.edu) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fork8.mail.virginia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C838C1F5159 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fork8.mail.virginia.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fork8.mail.virginia.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14917-07 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by fork8.mail.virginia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BAC1F4FE0 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so111921fgg.4 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.92.7 with SMTP id p7mr5258283fgb.72.1217449870298; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.90.20 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:31:10 -0400 From: "L Campbell" To: "Achim Patzner" In-Reply-To: <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> X-UVA-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at fork8.mail.virginia.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:51:29 -0000 > right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop is VMware Fusion on a Mac. It depends on what you consider to be "comfortable". My primary machine is an old Dell Inspiron 6000 (running the RELENG_7 branch) and the only hardware compatibility issue I've ever had was that suspend/hibernate doesn't work (display doesn't come back on). I'm much more comfortable with ignorable ACPI issues on old (but perfectly capable) hardware than running everything through a VM on a brand new top-of-the-line machine. While this message is entirely anecdotal, I'm sure there are quite a few other people happily running FreeBSD on a variety of machines (albeit, somewhat aged hardware) which doesn't come near the specifications outlined in the original post. From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 21:58:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E018E1065670; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:58:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal4.es.net [198.124.252.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A658FC25; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:58:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal3.es.net [198.128.3.207]) by postal4.es.net (Postal Node 4) with ESMTP (SSL) id KCZ59716; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:47:16 -0700 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [198.128.4.29]) by postal3.es.net (Postal Node 3) with ESMTP (SSL) id KCZ70315; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:47:15 -0700 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id 7F8C74500E; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:47:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Achim Patzner In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:28 +0200." <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1217454435_64117P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:47:15 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20080730214715.7F8C74500E@ptavv.es.net> Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:58:45 -0000 --==_Exmh_1217454435_64117P Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Id: <86769.1217454367.1@ptavv.es.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > From: Achim Patzner > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:20:28 +0200 > Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org > = > Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav: > > I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking = > > about > > iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. > = > The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that > would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something > fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the > picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix > users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an > obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once > but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > even more. I have been running for the last two years in a ThinkPad T43 and it works fine. ATI graphics work well as does everything except the modem. Since I don't have any access to any dialup network service any more, I don't think I care, although I do carry an old PCMCIA modem card, just in case. Suspend also does not work reliably, but I don't normally suspend my system, anyway, so I don't notice that, either. Atheros wireless, Broadcomm Ethernet, graphics, DRI, USB all just work and have worked since V6.1 days. That said, I suspect that my next laptop with be a Mac with either VMware or Parallels, My wife already runs one and it's pretty nice. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 --==_Exmh_1217454435_64117P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 06/03/2002 iD8DBQFIkOFjkn3rs5h7N1ERAs1VAKC0WfqVOy+cGRPcpIkqLMjz+2nDlACcCIGU CxipZsgpVP7Nb/Rwy05MgC8= =Pzdh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1217454435_64117P-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 22:53:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38721065673 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from outY.internet-mail-service.net (outy.internet-mail-service.net [216.240.47.248]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6828FC18 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from idiom.com (mx0.idiom.com [216.240.32.160]) by out.internet-mail-service.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5176624B5; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idiom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F7A2D6043; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:42:30 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Macintosh/20080707) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Olander References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:53:00 -0000 Matt Olander wrote: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the OSCON > show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some > things for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and we're > comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the general > public in September. > > best, > -matt > > ooooh nice! battery life? From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 23:01:09 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E471065671 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:01:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.240]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A1F8FC15 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:01:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mjguzik@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so367988ana.13 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:01:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=/N72ez1Hk36HH3XKEWmB2W19PFK9xXL+dtUnlINUBIE=; b=lQBoOGN5LAFuUvZt4EJzWyJoJxbwmJbrdALskbUyblZrwsjGg0hciWOHJM1X+epfh+ BznWe145IodbJqSaEEJllny2WlQx4ymL7asEgFGUpWz17EFfFwCLM83atPgevy5sBqmK fPqmWjenYUf5ydqs9umq+mEqVOIM9jCvE+Hc8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=NzKXdQouuWXui8nEHBsoQbmQENvmv4TZvsPOToQ8qtBU5rX8OUnmBYQIAFnMp8um1i dAoaDgCaZoqXe89fPCeC4ReJ5sVw+4C6HbRvB4N4a9xKiv92wyfwAYCFdmisblv9nCdo Yo1klB/ef3lCtSqiSMU6SHutyRVEELGPh8IXc= Received: by 10.100.163.8 with SMTP id l8mr13646273ane.138.1217457340494; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.12 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:35:40 +0200 From: "Mateusz Guzik" To: "Matt Olander" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Cc: Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:01:09 -0000 2008/7/30 Matt Olander : > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > >> Maybe you can wait for this: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the OSCON > show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some things > for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next week, > August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and we're > comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're comfortable > supporting long term. Most likely, available to the general public in > September. > Any chances it will be available with trackpoint instead of touchpad? :) Thanks, -- Mateusz Guzik From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 30 23:34:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A95A106567F for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@ixsystems.com) Received: from smtp115.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com (smtp115.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.96.88]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B80278FC08 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:34:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@ixsystems.com) Received: (qmail 19064 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2008 23:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 70-1-128-11.area1.spcsdns.net) (syndivision@att.net@70.1.128.11 with plain) by smtp115.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2008 23:07:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: P29P5J4VM1kuMmCygVatSu8Jnw1F5AQkAFN3Dyt1TAwnSVviWEmRIgNvh0pAeiu15PfunsQpkasMXY67cAmqsiM_cvH7Ll1Qs59AY.iebXVKcvQ.kjv1BgoRKuXHVnI- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-Id: From: Matt Olander To: Julian Elischer In-Reply-To: <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:07:31 -0700 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:34:17 -0000 On Jul 30, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > Matt Olander wrote: > >>> >>> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html >> Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the >> OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. >> Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking >> some things for ACPI. >> I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco >> next week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% >> and we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that >> we're comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to >> the general public in September. >> best, >> -matt > > ooooh > nice! > > battery life? I haven't done any battery life testing yet but I will. We just put NetBSD current on there late last night and one of our guys is surfing the net right now with one of the prototypes. We'll run it through some tests over this weekend on FreeBSD 7 and post some relevant specs up on the site next week. I'll let everyone know when we update :-P We've got a couple of minimalist stickers on there but we're hoping to ship it with a fun BSD sticker kit. I put the huge FreeBSD Mall bumper sticker on the lid of mine ;-) -matt From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 01:08:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC021065677; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:08:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stuartb@4gh.net) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13B28FC1E; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:08:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stuartb@4gh.net) Received: from mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.22]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Jul 2008 20:39:26 -0400 Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 3.8.6-GA) with ESMTP id OWZ01516; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 208-59-169-154.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com (HELO freeman.4gh.net) ([208.59.169.154]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Jul 2008 20:39:17 -0400 Received: by freeman.4gh.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4176A5CF81; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freeman.4gh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C41B5CE66; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:39:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Barkley To: Matt Olander In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A150202.489109B9.00A2,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=207.172.4.11, so=2007-10-30 19:00:17, dmn=5.4.3/2008-02-01 X-Junkmail-IWF: false Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:08:24 -0000 On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 at 18:35 -0000, Mateusz Guzik wrote: > 2008/7/30 Matt Olander : > > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > > > >> Maybe you can wait for this: > >> > >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Any chances it will be available with trackpoint instead of > touchpad? :) I like that it has a serial port on it. What does it have for audio? A line-in connection would also be very welcome. Also, how about 3 buttons on the touchpad? I really like having a middle button. From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 01:14:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8384C106568C for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:14:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unixmania@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 142708FC1B for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:14:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unixmania@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id q2so352245uge.37 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:14:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=XbjB5MvwoACBtIMGEGeWqmt/tsUyzwIHZt5YO8Au+84=; b=rBho9ZyosrBnBVV/+antWXT3jR7KXLid8GwzvoqWmbQPZ3Ur7OmFE258H4EGN4wGU4 omzKpE7oe/5Vb/YRPrAFdDPm8fPPSDvcleNR5rREJqjt/kUXsqNWFu5uLl/LfwmB2ZkD xD7pfjaf8LMPg/Nqq7lpXfxLu2NbYWvZzCCxU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=m4+T9avV5GNCXVsXh/aEPQY6u0ozUFvZxhfcud7fpiDZkTfoh+ysjzsS/ix4yxvtAW M7gEHyib0cUtwmoNrtDgrd52nvwbGwtxdCqsvw+h8th7olvsV2aSY90YhS4LM71TzMZx aRTePoE3AOAHAZq5oAICP+QOBYMb2uFYDC1zQ= Received: by 10.67.115.12 with SMTP id s12mr1847545ugm.51.1217465101351; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.234.1 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:45:01 -0300 From: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" To: "Achim Patzner" In-Reply-To: <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:14:19 -0000 On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: > Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav: >> >> I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking about >> iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. > > The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that > would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something > fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the > picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix > users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an > obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once > but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > even more. Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 did not support the WI-FI card. -- Carlos Santos Working, but not speaking (or advertising) for HP :-) From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 05:58:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4461065680 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:58:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: from mail.rubicom.hu (mail.rubicom.hu [89.147.80.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17AA8FC14 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:58:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.rubicom.hu) by mail.rubicom.hu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KOQIh-00057F-8m for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:02:07 +0200 Received: from ip5993549e.rubicom.hu ([89.147.84.158] helo=baranyfelhocske.buza.adamsfamily.xx) by mail.rubicom.hu with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KOQIh-000576-16 for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:02:07 +0200 Received: from baranyfelhocske.buza.adamsfamily.xx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baranyfelhocske.buza.adamsfamily.xx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6V526N0002073 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:02:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: (from sziszi@localhost) by baranyfelhocske.buza.adamsfamily.xx (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6V526tT002072 for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:02:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) X-Authentication-Warning: baranyfelhocske.buza.adamsfamily.xx: sziszi set sender to sziszi@bsd.hu using -f Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:02:06 +0200 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080731050206.GA1681@baranyfelhocske.buza.adamsfamily.xx> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <792298050807301331g37cc20a3of90ef7b7d2c94a17@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:58:14 -0000 On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 04:31:10PM -0400, L Campbell wrote: > It depends on what you consider to be "comfortable". Seconded. I have been happily running FreeBSD (usually -CURRENT) on two laptops for the last 5+ years. No issues really. Of course, this required that I did not merely walk into a store and pick up the item that was the most heavily advertised or the cheaperst or the "coolest" according to some tech site. (FreeBSD is so cool anyway, that the machine gets barely notices anyway :-) Instead I picked machines that were well supported hardware-wise after careful research. This meant eg that I even left one in the shop because when I went on location, it turned out that it had an Azalia soundcard instead of AC97 (although the specs said differently) and that was not well supported at that time in FreeBSD. Incidentally, this usually means not taking the latest and greatest, but to be frank, I have no need for the latest tech either. At this time I have an IBM TP R50e, which "just works". It does not have fancy items like BT or fingerprint reader, but I do not require those either. The modem does not work but I have no need for that either any more. (On my previous laptop, the modem worked with the ltmdm driver as well and I used that to go online for at least one year.) Oh, and I do not use suspend/resume because to be frank, FreeBSD boots faster than Windows wakes up. So I have no need for that either. So yes, it entirely depends on your definition of "comfortable". -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Budapest Hungary From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 08:26:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29D81065671; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:26:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1538FC19; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:26:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 415D41CC0AE; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:26:18 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Stefan Lambrev Message-ID: <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Jeremy Messenger , Matt Olander , freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:26:18 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:13:03AM +0300, Stefan Lambrev wrote: > Matt Olander wrote: >> On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >>> >>>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>>> sigh, >>>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>>> read -mobile). >>>> >>>> My criteria: >>>> * 3D acceleration. >>>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>>> anyway). >>>> * At least 15" screen. >>>> * Decent power consumption. >>>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>>> >>>> Nice to have: >>>> * Dual core. >>>> * >4GB memory. >>>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>>> breath). >>>> >>>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>>> ordering/installing it. >>> >>> Maybe you can wait for this: >>> >>> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html >> >> Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the >> OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. >> Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some >> things for ACPI. >> >> I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next >> week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and >> we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're >> comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the >> general public in September. > Does it have web cam btw ? I do not saw in spec, but on the picture > looks like it have. FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 08:31:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B65106567E for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:31:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: from blah.sun-fish.com (blah.sun-fish.com [217.18.249.150]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E392A8FC12 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:31:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id F32001B10F5E; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:13:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on malcho.cmotd.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Received: from hater.haters.org (hater.cmotd.com [192.168.3.125]) by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83431B10F5A; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:13:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:13:03 +0300 From: Stefan Lambrev User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Olander References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7897/Thu Jul 31 06:22:16 2008 on blah.cmotd.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Jeremy Messenger , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:31:38 -0000 Matt Olander wrote: > On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > >> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >> >>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>> sigh, >>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>> read -mobile). >>> >>> My criteria: >>> * 3D acceleration. >>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>> anyway). >>> * At least 15" screen. >>> * Decent power consumption. >>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>> >>> Nice to have: >>> * Dual core. >>> * >4GB memory. >>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>> breath). >>> >>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>> ordering/installing it. >> >> Maybe you can wait for this: >> >> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the > OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some > things for ACPI. > > I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next > week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and > we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're > comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the > general public in September. Does it have web cam btw ? I do not saw in spec, but on the picture looks like it have. My experience show, that if one want to have decent 3D acceleration on freebsd, there is only one way - i386 + nvidia driver. I know Intel video cards are very pro-open source, but the driver for those cards is not better then nvidia's. Also I guess some time will pass before we see those laptops in Europe? -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177 From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 08:37:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C580E106564A; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:37:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: from blah.sun-fish.com (blah.sun-fish.com [217.18.249.150]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7786E8FC1A; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:37:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 79F8A1B10F5E; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on malcho.cmotd.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Received: from hater.haters.org (hater.cmotd.com [192.168.3.125]) by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420731B10F61; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <489179BC.7050007@moneybookers.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:37:16 +0300 From: Stefan Lambrev User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7897/Thu Jul 31 06:22:16 2008 on blah.cmotd.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Jeremy Messenger , Matt Olander , freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:37:21 -0000 Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:13:03AM +0300, Stefan Lambrev wrote: > >> Matt Olander wrote: >> >>> On Jul 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >>>>> sigh, >>>>> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >>>>> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >>>>> read -mobile). >>>>> >>>>> My criteria: >>>>> * 3D acceleration. >>>>> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >>>>> anyway). >>>>> * At least 15" screen. >>>>> * Decent power consumption. >>>>> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >>>>> >>>>> Nice to have: >>>>> * Dual core. >>>>> * >4GB memory. >>>>> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >>>>> breath). >>>>> >>>>> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >>>>> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >>>>> ordering/installing it. >>>>> >>>> Maybe you can wait for this: >>>> >>>> http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html >>>> >>> Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the >>> OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. >>> Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking some >>> things for ACPI. >>> >>> I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco next >>> week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% and >>> we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that we're >>> comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to the >>> general public in September. >>> >> Does it have web cam btw ? I do not saw in spec, but on the picture >> looks like it have. >> > > FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. > multimedia/pwcbsd multimedia/linux-gspca-kmod multimedia/linux-ov511-kmod Though I never heard for someone using successfully his webcam with skype2 ;) http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD/usb-cameras.html The question for webcamps pop-ups regularly on -multimedia. -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177 From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 08:52:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCB3106568C; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:52:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from mail.pica.nl (mail.pica.nl [192.87.44.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C244A8FC1D; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:52:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from rebelion.Sisis.de ([193.31.10.34]) by mail.pica.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:52:03 +0200 Received: (from guru@localhost) by rebelion.Sisis.de (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m6V8q28k004359; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:52:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: rebelion.Sisis.de: guru set sender to matthias.apitz@oclc.org using -f Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:52:02 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Stefan Lambrev Message-ID: <20080731085202.GA4101@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <489179BC.7050007@moneybookers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <489179BC.7050007@moneybookers.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE (i386) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2008 08:52:03.0849 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4228790:01C8F2EA] Cc: Jeremy Messenger , Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, Matt Olander , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:52:06 -0000 El día Thursday, July 31, 2008 a las 11:37:16AM +0300, Stefan Lambrev escribió: > >FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. > > > multimedia/pwcbsd > multimedia/linux-gspca-kmod > multimedia/linux-ov511-kmod > > Though I never heard for someone using successfully his webcam with > skype2 ;) > > http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD/usb-cameras.html > > The question for webcamps pop-ups regularly on -multimedia. I've this cam: Mar 19 10:31:28 rebelion kernel: pwc0: vendor 0x0471 product 0x0329, rev 1.10/0.03, addr 2 Mar 19 10:31:29 rebelion kernel: pwc0: Philips SPC900NC USB webcam Mar 19 10:31:29 rebelion kernel: pwc0: This camera is equipped with a Sony CCD sensor + TDA8787 (32 which is supported by multimedia/pwcbsd and works fine with Ekiga (SVN version) via the V4L plugin of ptlib (ptlib/plugins/vidinput_v4l); matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ We should all learn from the peoples of The Netherlands, France and Ireland. Aprendamos todos de los pueblos de Holanda, Francia e Irlanda. From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 09:18:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD6D106567F; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:18:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) Received: from mailomat.net (mailomat.net [81.20.89.254]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746EA8FC13; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) X-Mailomat-SpamCatcher-Score: 45 [XX] (100%) BODY: contains pornographic content in caps X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] Received: from [194.39.192.125] (account bnc-mail@mailrelay.mailomat.net HELO bnc.net) by mailomat.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTPSA id 47388326; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:18:01 +0200 X-SpamCatcher-Score: 45 [XX] Received: from [194.39.192.126] (account ap HELO wasabi.wlan.bnc.net) by bnc.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTPSA id 3283783; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:17:55 +0200 Message-Id: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> From: Achim Patzner To: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-12-817989714; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:17:54 +0200 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav=22?= , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:18:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail-12-817989714 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am 31.07.2008 um 02:45 schrieb Carlos A. M. dos Santos: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: >> I tried to break that habit more than once >> but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop >> is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me >> even more. > > Please define "comfortable". You just did so: > I never attempted to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader > [...] the memory card > reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 > did not support the WI-FI card. Great Lord. I just opened the box, turned the machine on and - after waiting fo about a few minutes - just began using it. Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. Getting X to run on the *censored* *even more censorship*? No problem, it's even launching itself should I really need it. Camera? Built-in. Unix that feels like FreeBSD? Built- in. HSDPA? Just connect the USB modem or plug in the Merlin XU. NO FUCKING INTEL STICKERS TO PEEL OFF. PRICELESS. It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to come creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping the penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do hurt). But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use something less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a lot of them with FreeBSD-based servers. Achim --Apple-Mail-12-817989714-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:08:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867DB1065690; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:08:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EAD8FC08; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:08:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 353AF1CC0B3; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:08:21 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Achim Patzner Message-ID: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav=22?= , freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:08:21 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Are you aware of the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft proposal for such. You *must* have drivers for a USB-to-serial adapter. And every adapter is different, depending upon the adapter chipset used, many of which are not disclosed in product specifications, so there's no way to guarantee it'll work with FreeBSD. On -stable (I believe) some people have mentioned which USB-to-serial adapters work great under FreeBSD and Windows, while others are horrible (dropping characters, broken flow control, interrupt issues, and many other problems). > It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to come > creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping the > penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do > hurt). > But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use something > less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the > most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a lot of > them with FreeBSD-based servers. The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've confused at least one reader. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:34:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3782E106566B; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:34:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from richard@unixguru.nl) Received: from mx1.unixguru.nl (mx1.unixguru.nl [77.37.12.119]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95218FC2D; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:34:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from richard@unixguru.nl) Received: from mail.unixguru.nl (www.unixguru.nl [217.122.37.210]) by mx1.unixguru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071C91F4A6; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.unixguru.nl [127.0.0.1]) by mail.unixguru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484971141B; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixguru.nl Received: from mail.unixguru.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.unixguru.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BOIQ4EJGfDUh; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (shell.unixguru.nl [192.168.10.20]) by mail.unixguru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C7811408; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:37:19 +0200 From: Richard Arends To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080731083718.GC959@shell.unixguru.nl> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4891740F.7000305@moneybookers.com> <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080731082618.GA2204@eos.sc1.parodius.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:34:10 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 01:26:18AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: Hi, > FreeBSD has support for webcams? News to me. Luigi Rizzo was (is?) working on webcam support: http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD/usb-cameras.html -- Regards, Richard. /* Homo Sapiens non urinat in ventum */ From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:38:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B06C1065674 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:38:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asstec@matik.com.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56BD8FC14 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:38:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asstec@matik.com.br) Received: from ap-h.matik.com.br (ap-h.matik.com.br [200.152.83.36]) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VABu9i014583 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:11:56 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from asstec@matik.com.br) From: AT Matik Organization: Infomatik To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:11:34 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> In-Reply-To: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807310711.34377.asstec@matik.com.br> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/7898/Thu Jul 31 03:42:41 2008 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:38:25 -0000 On Thursday 31 July 2008 06:17:54 Achim Patzner wrote: > Am 31.07.2008 um 02:45 schrieb Carlos A. M. dos Santos: > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: > >> I tried to break that habit more than once > >> but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > >> is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > >> even more. > > > > Please define "comfortable". > > You just did so: > > I never attempted to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader > > [...] the memory card > > reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 > > did not support the WI-FI card. > > Great Lord. I just opened the box, turned the machine on and - after > waiting > fo about a few minutes - just began using it. Drivers? Who cares. Serial > port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. Getting X to run on the *censored* > *even more censorship*? No problem, it's even launching itself should I > really need it. Camera? Built-in. Unix that feels like FreeBSD? Built- > in. > HSDPA? Just connect the USB modem or plug in the Merlin XU. > > NO FUCKING INTEL STICKERS TO PEEL OFF. PRICELESS. > guys ... seems most of you are seeing a laptop for the first time of your=20 life, I am impressed so long as you ignore FreeBSD's almost-disability to resume from suspend it= =20 runs on all notes I got in my hands over the last years up to now with 7, a= nd=20 runs fine, often much better on cheap pieces (faster and longer bat life)= =20 than on some 1500-bucks-wonder-bonder-books and Jee, this sticker, man, hot!, intel, orange or bsd-whatever are really= =20 important, I agree ... first things first - and you could stick them on the= =20 screen to see them all the time Jo=E3o A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:46:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E532C1065686 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asstec@matik.com.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE988FC18 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asstec@matik.com.br) Received: from ap-h.matik.com.br (ap-h.matik.com.br [200.152.83.36]) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VAk5Jj017612 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:46:05 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from asstec@matik.com.br) From: AT Matik Organization: Infomatik To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:45:43 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807310745.43407.asstec@matik.com.br> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/7898/Thu Jul 31 03:42:41 2008 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:46:07 -0000 On Thursday 31 July 2008 07:08:21 Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > > Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. > > You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Are you aware of > the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB > specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL > Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft > proposal for such. > > You *must* have drivers for a USB-to-serial adapter. And every adapter > is different, depending upon the adapter chipset used, many of which are > not disclosed in product specifications, so there's no way to guarantee > it'll work with FreeBSD. On -stable (I believe) some people have > mentioned which USB-to-serial adapters work great under FreeBSD and > Windows, while others are horrible (dropping characters, broken flow > control, interrupt issues, and many other problems). > I am not sure if that is true ... I believe that are port config issues I have Leadership USB to serial adaptor cable which works just fine with=20 freebsd's usb drivers out-of-the-box since 5.3 or 6 for sure, works flawles= s=20 with minicom Jo=E3o A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:48:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7E41065673; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:48:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) Received: from mailomat.net (mailomat.net [81.20.89.254]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80CE8FC19; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:48:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) X-Mailomat-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] Received: from [194.39.192.125] (account bnc-mail@mailrelay.mailomat.net HELO bnc.net) by mailomat.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTPSA id 47388895; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:48:03 +0200 X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Received: from [194.39.192.126] (account ap HELO wasabi.wlan.bnc.net) by bnc.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTPSA id 3283819; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:48:03 +0200 Message-Id: From: Achim Patzner To: Jeremy Chadwick In-Reply-To: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-15-823397319; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:48:02 +0200 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:48:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail-15-823397319 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am 31.07.2008 um 12:08 schrieb Jeremy Chadwick: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: >> Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. > > You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Wrong; I'm using them all the time. Initial kneading of serious Cisco stuff still didn't get into the 21. century. My tool of choice is an ExSys EX-1372 (ExpressCard, but that's just a fancy packaging for USB) which is - using the Mac OS built-in driver or Windows > 2000 - working out of the box and interrupt delivery is good enough to run Auerswald's Java application for their PABX systems (which is so timing-dependent that it is refusing to work with quite a few "real" serial ports). > Are you aware of > the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB > specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL > Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft > proposal for such. I don't care. It just *works*, even with off-the-mill Prolific trash (although those will not suffice for my telefone). I won't even get into typical Mac-user's creature comforts like using Bluetooth serial devices (just power it on and the Mac magically sprouts a /dev/cu.Bluetooth-dongle-name.subdevice plus /dev/tty. which will even do fancy stuff like automatic speed and parity settings. > so there's no way to guarantee it'll work with FreeBSD. Which is true for so many things. Which I can buy off-the-shelf for Mac OS. No hassle, no hacking, no sweat. For me a desktop machine is a tool; I won't give it more consideration than a screwdriver. It has to do its job which (again: for me) is delivering a usable front- end for servers and writing documentation (and bills!) plus doing all the communication stuff I need to be able to work wherever I am. It boils down to: Unix, no Linux, Word (They make me need it...), VMware. >> It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to >> come >> creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping >> the >> penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do >> hurt). >> But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use >> something >> less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the >> most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a >> lot of >> them with FreeBSD-based servers. > > The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally > cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if > you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've > confused at least one reader. Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in comparison to Mac OS. And after all, Mac users need FreeBSD - who else should provide them with all the nice things from ipfw to the user land? Would you really expect Apple to do it all on its own? Face it: The real difference between servers and desktops is the "who has to bend over"-question. Servers are adapted to the software they are going to run while on "personal computers" the software has to adapt to the machine ("I want that shiny Sony. I don't care if the hardware sucks, it's beautiful."). And Chuck is quite definitely lacking at bending over... Achim --Apple-Mail-15-823397319-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:50:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA38A1065670; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:50:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (skuns.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E628FC19; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:50:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (root@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua [10.1.1.148]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VASbUK002812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:28:37 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VASbDJ034979; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:28:37 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6VASaiK034978; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:28:36 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:28:36 +0300 From: Kostik Belousov To: Matt Olander Message-ID: <20080731102836.GZ97161@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <4890EE56.2090202@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Lv0dYwq55yjFwMRW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.93.3, clamav-milter version 0.93.3 on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: freebsd-hackers , Julian Elischer , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:50:14 -0000 --Lv0dYwq55yjFwMRW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 04:07:31PM -0700, Matt Olander wrote: > On Jul 30, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: >=20 > >Matt Olander wrote: > > > >>> > >>>http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > >>Hi everyone! I actually had our prototype of this laptop up at the =20 > >>OSCON show in Portland and it was pretty well received. > >>Everything works for the most part although we're still tweaking =20 > >>some things for ACPI. > >>I'll have one at the FreeBSD booth at LinuxWorld in San Francisco =20 > >>next week, August 5-7. We'll announce as soon as this thing is 100% =20 > >>and we're comfortable bringing the product line up as an item that =20 > >>we're comfortable supporting long term. Most likely, available to =20 > >>the general public in September. > >>best, > >>-matt > > > >ooooh > >nice! > > > >battery life? >=20 > I haven't done any battery life testing yet but I will. We just put =20 > NetBSD current on there late last night and one of our guys is surfing = =20 > the net right now with one of the prototypes. We'll run it through =20 > some tests over this weekend on FreeBSD 7 and post some relevant specs = =20 > up on the site next week. I'll let everyone know when we update :-P >=20 > We've got a couple of minimalist stickers on there but we're hoping to = =20 > ship it with a fun BSD sticker kit. I put the huge FreeBSD Mall bumper = =20 > sticker on the lid of mine ;-) Would it be possible to order it not from US, and how much shipping may cost ? --Lv0dYwq55yjFwMRW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkiRk9QACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4jbXwCeNSZfKYakgT49VisbZYlr24YA lpkAnjgm+1y9pjQkRhLR+KICW6YSy9o/ =z7jJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Lv0dYwq55yjFwMRW-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 11:08:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D588A106567B; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:08:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45858FC13; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:08:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A9F221CC0AE; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:08:02 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Achim Patzner Message-ID: <20080731110802.GB28990@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:08:02 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:48:02PM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > I don't care. I can see that; thanks for summing it up. >> The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally >> cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if >> you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've >> confused at least one reader. > > Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs > that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in > comparison to Mac OS. And after all, Mac users need FreeBSD - who else > should provide them with all the nice things from ipfw to the user land? > Would you really expect Apple to do it all on its own? > > Face it: The real difference between servers and desktops is the "who > has to bend over"-question. Servers are adapted to the software they > are going to run while on "personal computers" the software has to adapt > to the machine ("I want that shiny Sony. I don't care if the hardware > sucks, it's beautiful."). And Chuck is quite definitely lacking at > bending > over... You just did it again -- anti-FreeBSD propaganda and pro-FreeBSD propaganda in a single paragraph, followed by an oddly-skewed server-to-desktop comparison, something about computer cosmetics, then a strange comment about the beastie/Chuck which seems to be negative but could be positive depending on how you look at it. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 12:35:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4074B106564A for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:35:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27958FC1C for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:35:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so263357nfh.33 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:35:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer; bh=HG689TJqH6yESjCB6BVNXwVV6X/o8UTRFX1d1y4EsLk=; b=NZ8Vde5Y8EbPwDD+lv+kI6euAdK7n5dl1d/fnhmY26nzNPDFqxJqoWma4DQheq+f/v Z1dYOYOzQQfMmduwcdbc97Nu+X2vxOYfA71pE1gKmkGsoN2Cbc3JL2GOpy+YLPwVHnOO 8uwYAiyyAkdMHkrZQELFXoKAPiaB6TfdMV4tU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; b=hwaPn5G8h9ltgITeq2ET0lbID7/vBnSe+lHyoz2tIvQg1Nl9PzN9o5kkWdM0pnc4fR ZNOxjMX9uE1AsLX5gpbqBzGnjHqKcV5Zr5QRLd38AwP0wY/wmxisSFs7EUFYmGSyEhoc 2D60hKlDsSNwKW8Bqf+GQN9q2pSUCJZ0NjEXE= Received: by 10.210.82.7 with SMTP id f7mr10876399ebb.185.1217505977037; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?127.0.0.1? ( [217.206.187.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t12sm5368542gvd.10.2008.07.31.05.06.15 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:06:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Evans To: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-vxbiEvPDaU9K53upYFd2" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:06:04 +0100 Message-Id: <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Cc: Achim Patzner , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:35:08 -0000 --=-vxbiEvPDaU9K53upYFd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 21:45 -0300, Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Achim Patzner wrote: > > Am 30.07.2008 um 18:40 schrieb Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav: > >> > >> I don't understand what Macs have to do with this - we're talking abou= t > >> iX Systems's made-for-BSD laptop. > > > > The thread started with someone asking for a mobile computer that > > would support FreeBSD sufficiently and nobody came up with something > > fitting the bill (and being available somewhere). Considering the > > picture you're seeing at any place where more than two hardcore Unix > > users assemble you're seeing a majority of Macs. There has to be an > > obvious reason for that... I tried to break that habit more than once > > but right now the only comfortable way of running FreeBSD on a laptop > > is VMware Fusion on a Mac. Reading this entire thread convinced me > > even more. >=20 > Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty > comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted > to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss > them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card > reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 > did not support the WI-FI card. >=20 > -- > Carlos Santos > Working, but not speaking (or advertising) for HP :-) Another happy BSD user on HP - nc6320 this time though. intel(4x) graphics, wpi(4) wifi, bge(4) networking, fwochi(4) firewire, serial port, plenty of USB ports. Even the fingerprint scanner works (security/libfprint). I don't use bluetooth or the card reader, so cannot comment on them. The one down side of my HP laptop is the HP BIOS refuses to start up with a different wifi card installed - I'd quite like to use an ath(4) based card.. I could imagine if you just need to play with an OS, or if you mainly develop the OS, running it under some sort of VM on a host system would be more useful. For me, running under VM would be a nightmare.=20 Tom --=-vxbiEvPDaU9K53upYFd2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAkiRqqcACgkQlcRvFfyds/cZeQCfe+pY/5Kr1nzsat9PP01+dgkU kkwAn1iKbKm3VyT9PfgLl5A7AftOngP5 =k+4i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-vxbiEvPDaU9K53upYFd2-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 13:00:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8583106568C for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:00:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from bsd.ultra-secure.de (bsd.ultra-secure.de [62.146.20.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA508FC13 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:00:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: (qmail 92191 invoked by uid 89); 31 Jul 2008 12:34:05 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 92170, pid: 92182, t: 4.1908s scanners: attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.88.7/m:44/d:4673 spam: 3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on bsd.ultra-secure.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from unknown (HELO ?212.71.117.70?) (rainer@ultra-secure.de@212.71.117.70) by bsd.ultra-secure.de with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 31 Jul 2008 12:34:00 -0000 Message-ID: <4891B134.5080303@ultra-secure.de> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:33:56 +0200 From: Rainer Duffner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; de; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080421 SUSE/2.0.0.14-0.1 Thunderbird/2.0.0.14 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers References: <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <20080731110802.GB28990@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080731110802.GB28990@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:00:48 -0000 Jeremy Chadwick schrieb: > > > You just did it again -- anti-FreeBSD propaganda and pro-FreeBSD > propaganda in a single paragraph, followed by an oddly-skewed > server-to-desktop comparison, something about computer cosmetics, then a > strange comment about the beastie/Chuck which seems to be negative but > could be positive depending on how you look at it. > > But he has a point. Or better: I can see why he is so ambivalent. For some people it may be enough that you can boot a laptop with FreeBSD and it works with sound+gfx+wifi (if you buy wisely). E.g. it's OK for my Lifebook E8010 and it boots up fast enough so that not having ACPI suspend/resume isn't a drama. It also proved easier to upgrade than Ubuntu on the same hardware. But some people just want their notebook to work in the way it is intended to and with all features they actually paid money for. For those, Apple's offerings are hard to beat. Heck, Apple notebooks even beat Windows-notebooks from vendors who have been selling them for 10 or 15 years in terms of battery-life, mobility and usefulness on the road. No surprise here that FreeBSD loses out. Incidentially. if you go to a (BSD)-conference, even a lot of FreeBSD developers have Apple notebooks (not all, though - but you get Apple-logos galore...). Percentage may be even higher among CORE members - and there's nothing wrong about that. OTOH, I still prefer konsole and xterms on the above FreeBSD notebook, even compared to my (latest-generation) 24 inch iMac. It just feels "X'ier", if you know what I mean.... There are "voiced opinions" every couple of months that boil down to something along the line of: "Just get rid of all the [mobile|old|whatever] crap and concentrate on the server-space, I need [insert server-feature] more than I need this ACPI-stuff that didn't work for me anyway". But I don't think this leads anywhere ;-) Also, I feel it somehow denigrates the work committers do in this area - unpaid work, mostly (is anybody actually paid for hacking this stuff?), I assume. And isn't ACPI nowadays used universally to distribute resources (IRQs etc.) to expansion-cards, even in servers? cheers, Rainer From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 14:15:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F571065678; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:15:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from tinker.exit.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:47e::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864938FC19; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:15:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from jill.exit.com (jill.exit.com [IPv6:2001:470:80f4:0:2e0:81ff:fe33:7e9a]) by tinker.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VEEFFW043990; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=exit.com; s=tinker; t=1217513655; bh=xOOUoPJmRqCXUPw0HN3rh1LQBywYxk933h/GRlGB2Ws=; h=Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:Message-Id:Mime-Version; b=VuyFRlS1 Z3qFVJqJ0qgB1D5QojH1r8vyz6+jIYGeAkWY9SWxmC7Pi835EkdrpSV68SKYcPzxMHv sZjlsgu70y7bVVi8YGG2PmThCdArsPhZfdgO9NOM8QnPCP721iYK/abdbCMbpcqh5KN lX9xWMChBd7iG0WVBVIOGIzjFxdRs= Received: from jill.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6VEEqEm044692; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6VEEp3U044691; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) X-Authentication-Warning: jill.exit.com: frank set sender to frank@exit.com using -f From: Frank Mayhar To: Achim Patzner In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Exit Consulting Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:14:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1217513690.44523.3.camel@jill.exit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93/7404/Sun Jun 8 09:19:18 2008 on tinker.exit.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-hackers , Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: frank@exit.com List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:15:09 -0000 On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 12:48 +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs > that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in > comparison to Mac OS. The problem is that you are expressing your opinion as if it is a Basic Fact of the Universe. It ain't. Get over it. (For the record, I've been running FreeBSD on laptops for, well, lots of years now. Not to mention on my main desktop system for a lot longer than that. I'm _very_ happy with it. On the other hand, the Mac interface annoys me endlessly. But of course that's _my_ opinion.) -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 15:55:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956091065679 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0C98FC14 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:55:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 20743 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2008 11:28:10 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO mbook.local) (192.168.195.193) by 0 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2008 11:28:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:29:04 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Achim Patzner Message-ID: <20080731112904.52255aac@mbook.local> In-Reply-To: <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-apple-darwin9.2.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" , Dag-Erling =?UTF-8?B?U23DuHJncmF2?= , freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:55:56 -0000 On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:17:54 +0200 Achim Patzner wrote: > Getting X to run on the *censored* *even more censorship*? No problem, Like you say, it depends on what you want from X. Leopard's X was tolerable. Tiger broke full screen mode, and Apple doesn't have the resources to fix it. Running X tools in a Mac WM means you get the worst features of both, and I gave up on that after about 20 minutes. So I now run FreeBSD in VMWare - to get a usable X server and window manager. The apps - mostly from macports - all run under OSX. The application selection isn't as good as FreeBSD, but the results are about as close as you're going to get with full hardware support. FWIW, it looks like VirtualBox will have client-side tools support for FreeBSD in the next release (as in, it looks like it's in their repository), at which point that will become my preferred VM solution for FreeBSD clients. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 23:26:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524E51065677 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unixmania@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF408FC14 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:26:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unixmania@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id q2so485805uge.37 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:26:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=skuhZ0n09twp2Rp5b+CDBlK1GhU0hj6X57Z3TW+QwDQ=; b=uHsKa06gwEeX220JJ/p19IclSCrx77fTpwTbn94oFTzJN3FAUdo8zd/P+5eUjChw8r FGXjLbUMv9oBtbt2qW73Ul3Ad1obsGNGx/Hl0u67B+6tLbTYSjrRVihwX/aAh14UILdW zuRnxlQhfWsll0C8f/D6D125xAZEPzpFxjBIo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=DLrn+SSNFeuRGN16LaWfONiCDKidqWoo6cBSDgc4g9ffcADBbIkzRfWT/qiPbWyQNH YQEPjurpYHiIJNVK5RKP3Gc8EWpODaPrH+L9dXoxoLN1hEPAy8JcGmlZXk98ix0HTDC0 OrOPoOW0XBczfwyfqHfpNWZ2jCfWDScL94N8c= Received: by 10.67.116.15 with SMTP id t15mr3129329ugm.53.1217546789642; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.234.1 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:26:29 -0300 From: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" To: "Tom Evans" In-Reply-To: <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:26:31 -0000 On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Tom Evans wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 21:45 -0300, Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote: >> Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty >> comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted >> to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss >> them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card >> reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 >> did not support the WI-FI card. > Another happy BSD user on HP - nc6320 this time though. intel(4x) > graphics, wpi(4) wifi, bge(4) networking, fwochi(4) firewire, serial > port, plenty of USB ports. Even the fingerprint scanner works > (security/libfprint). > I don't use bluetooth or the card reader, so cannot comment on them. > > The one down side of my HP laptop is the HP BIOS refuses to start up > with a different wifi card installed - I'd quite like to use an ath(4) > based card.. Do you have an up-to-date BIOS? I had some problems booting from USB that I could solve using the latest BIOS version. -- If you think things can't get worse it's probably only because you lack sufficient imagination. From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 03:00:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F257F1065673 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 03:00:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smallhand@crawblog.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56B28FC15 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 03:00:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smallhand@crawblog.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so684626wfg.7 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.188.4 with SMTP id l4mr3537691wff.183.1217559625589; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.194.9 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <919383240807312000m773d9d0dh40d69a8e8c094f4f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:00:25 -0500 From: "Edward Ruggeri" To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Suspend/Hibernate/Wake on Thinkpad T61 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:00:26 -0000 Hi, When I suspend to memory or hard disk (S3, S5), I don't seem to be able to wake up the computer; also, the screen never turns off. I have a ThinkPad T61, so I'm sure someone else must have experience with this hardware. Any hints? (I am using the acpi_ibm kernel module). Thanks!, -- Ned Ruggeri From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 06:26:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFE41065670 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:26:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9318FC0A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:26:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1KOnoJ-000BNn-Tp; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:08:19 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: Jeremy Chadwick In-reply-to: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Comments: In-reply-to Jeremy Chadwick message dated "Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:08:21 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:08:19 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-ID: Cc: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" , Achim Patzner , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav=22?= Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:26:25 -0000 > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: > > Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. > > You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Are you aware of > the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB > specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL > Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft > proposal for such. > and even more amazing, that we still have to configure the baudrate! > You *must* have drivers for a USB-to-serial adapter. And every adapter > is different, depending upon the adapter chipset used, many of which are > not disclosed in product specifications, so there's no way to guarantee > it'll work with FreeBSD. On -stable (I believe) some people have > mentioned which USB-to-serial adapters work great under FreeBSD and > Windows, while others are horrible (dropping characters, broken flow > control, interrupt issues, and many other problems). > > > It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to come > > creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping the > > penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do > > hurt). > > But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use something > > less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the > > most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a lot of > > them with FreeBSD-based servers. > > The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally > cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if > you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've > confused at least one reader. there is an old saying, If Moses can't get to the hill, the hill will come to Moses or is it the other way round? get a serial to ethernet gadgets, or use IPMI/ILO/or-whatever-will-be-next. I agree with Achim, I also tried to run FreeBSD on some laptops, and I lost. The Mac has some drawbacks, sure, but it has - still - a Unix flavour, and FreeBSD still rocks on the servers, slightly less on the descktop - nvidia ... danny From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 08:19:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E65106564A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:19:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C12F8FC0C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:19:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so492223nfh.33 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:19:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer; bh=fsRg9+vqRXSAuQc62KKnL4Ns6JCWrbHtOzExNtBUq1E=; b=FwMTGI53o1EVhWm+t2o/HrsJYn2gsVPwzzVbd8663TxV+rVwr8OFwtQqwUT0l3a4Df +49xj+Oz0eTSnR2ZCDpke3lusFi/7AFO8udvFOuKg5WWVJj/zkrciTI2DQWch3g3ontv HKtSEecErUnZqSwzGJ6QWzevydu3s8Cq3YDWU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; b=pJhh6c2YSvV1StI0tfKOtMQ6TNEGrVC6mPeKmLjoHdl6jqzJniRQJF0H68z0Lvu0bD 1eN2ukAj83dOVqWjHCdNkqBJCxGLUvbU6aCu8pnlUMyg9Cua9UC/8VrTddvvDndEICRx TMEgwUJaAU6FqtGDpoCm+eB8M2CjxFB2EyTfc= Received: by 10.210.127.13 with SMTP id z13mr8622795ebc.106.1217578792067; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?127.0.0.1? ( [217.206.187.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t12sm2120105gvd.10.2008.08.01.01.19.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:19:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Evans To: "Carlos A. M. dos Santos" In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <1217505964.78925.12.camel@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-wNODDrESJ36Wk0MKLW+A" Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:19:47 +0100 Message-Id: <1217578788.78925.17.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:19:53 -0000 --=-wNODDrESJ36Wk0MKLW+A Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 20:26 -0300, Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Tom Evans wro= te: > > > > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 21:45 -0300, Carlos A. M. dos Santos wrote: > >> Please define "comfortable". I've been running FreeBSD 7.0 pretty > >> comfortably on my HP nx6320 for several months now. I never attempted > >> to use neither Bluetooth nor the fingerprint reader, so I don't miss > >> them. The only real drawback I've found was that the memory card > >> reader does not work. I also ran 8.0-CURRENT on a HP 6910p because 7.0 > >> did not support the WI-FI card. >=20 > > Another happy BSD user on HP - nc6320 this time though. intel(4x) > > graphics, wpi(4) wifi, bge(4) networking, fwochi(4) firewire, serial > > port, plenty of USB ports. Even the fingerprint scanner works > > (security/libfprint). > > I don't use bluetooth or the card reader, so cannot comment on them. > > > > The one down side of my HP laptop is the HP BIOS refuses to start up > > with a different wifi card installed - I'd quite like to use an ath(4) > > based card.. >=20 > Do you have an up-to-date BIOS? I had some problems booting from USB > that I could solve using the latest BIOS version. >=20 Yes, latest BIOS. If you search through the BIOS file, it is fairly easy to find the list of 'approved' HP vendor/device ids that it will allow to be put in the mini pci-e slot and still boot up (there are only 4 distinct device ids defined in the BIOS). I've considered just manually editing it to replace one of the device ids with my replacement card, but I fear I would probably brick the laptop! Tom --=-wNODDrESJ36Wk0MKLW+A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAkiSxyAACgkQlcRvFfyds/cnDwCeOSoX0KWOIKipVNIgqYINriCT HbEAoJYnrEzsPmHb78T/mlgUV++AZDOj =/RIO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-wNODDrESJ36Wk0MKLW+A-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 13:13:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6AD106566C for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:13:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alik@klikni.cz) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.159]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF078FC14 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:13:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alik@klikni.cz) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so1247651fgb.35 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.125.125.5 with SMTP id c5mr562003mkn.158.1217594922386; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.125.163.10 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 05:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:48:42 +0200 From: "Alik Dolezal" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" In-Reply-To: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Zamri Besar , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:13:45 -0000 PiBBbmQgaWYgeW91IGdvIHdpdGggTGVub3ZvLCBiZSBhd2FyZSB0aGF0IHRoZWlyIFQ2MC9UNjBw L1Q2MS9UNjFwIHNlcmllcwo+IChhbmQgcG9zc2libHkgdGhlIFgtc2VyaWVzKSBhcmUga25vd24g dG8gc3BvcnQgdmVyeSBoaWdoIHRlbXBlcmF0dXJlcy4KPiBTb21lIHBlb3BsZSBoYXZlIHJlcG9y dGVkIHRlbXBlcmF0dXJlcyBvZiBuZWFybHkgOTBDIG9uIHRoZWlyIEdQVSAod2hlbgo+IGlkbGlu ZyksIHdoaWNoIGhhcyBhIGRpcmVjdCBlZmZlY3Qgb24gdGhlIG92ZXJhbGwgdGVtcGVyYXR1cmUg b2YgdGhlIENQVQo+IChkdWUgdG8gY2xvc2UgcHJveGltaXR5KSBhbmQgc28gb24uICBUaGlzIHJl cXVpcmVzIHRoZSBmYW4gdG8gYmUgb24gYXQKPiBhbG1vc3QgYWxsIHRpbWVzICh1c3VhbGx5IGxv dy1zcGVlZCBtb2RlKS4gIE90aGVycyBoYXZlIGl0IHdvcnNlICh0aGUKPiBsYXB0b3AgbGl0ZXJh bGx5IHNodXR0aW5nIG9mZiBpbiB0aGUgbWlkZGxlIG9mIG9wZXJhdGlvbik6Cj4KCkkgYm91Z2h0 IExlbm92byBUNjEgcmVjZW50bHkgYW5kIGRvbnQgc2VlIGFueSBoaWdodCBHUFUgdGVtcGVyYXR1 cmVzLiBHUFUKdGVtcGVyYXR1cmUgaXMgYWJvdXQgNTVDIHdoZW4gaWRsaW5nLiBJIG5ldmVyIG5v dGljZSAoc28gZmFyKSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVyZQphYm92ZQo2NUMuIE1vcmUgYW5ub3lpbmcgaXMgKHN1 YmplY3RpdmVseSkgaG90IEhERCB1bmRlciByaWdodCB3cmlzdC4KCkNoZWVycyBBbGW5Cg== From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 1 14:36:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC841065675 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:36:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC47C8FC0A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:36:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.197]) by fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m71BBek0002955 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:11:40 +1000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m71BBbw6003136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:11:37 +1000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71BBarP063326; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:11:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m71BBaqg063325; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:11:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:11:36 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Zaphod Beeblebrox Message-ID: <20080801111136.GS1359@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> <1217120187.37762.7.camel@jill.exit.com> <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MIdTMoZhcV1D07fI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807271423t3dc1e89bn7295b9af9fa0eda5@mail.gmail.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:36:53 -0000 --MIdTMoZhcV1D07fI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Jul-27 17:23:46 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > we'd need a method of remembering what file handles were >connected to so that they could be "reopened" (in this, I envision some ty= pe >of text string... maybe a URI/URL). As a bonus, this would give us process >migration between systems, too (assuming the URI were portable between self >same systems --- which isn't horribly hard with nfs mounts and whatnot). What you are describing here sounds more like the process checkpointing functionality that Softway (I think it was) developed sometime last century. There should be a paper on it in an AUUG Conference Proceedings somewhere. Process checkpointing is somewhat different to suspend/resume: With suspend/resume, you are saving the entire system state - which is basically a matter of dumping physical RAM to disk and being able to restore it later. You don't need to be able to isolate individual processes and there's no need to 'reopen' file handles because they will automatically re-instantiate when you restore the kernel state that included them being open. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --MIdTMoZhcV1D07fI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkiS72gACgkQ/opHv/APuIfwZwCgwA4l/Ndk7SxxZWmMc47RcBkx musAn0ZUFkcKmy+RJ6UFipzon5oqjRkD =QWXV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MIdTMoZhcV1D07fI-- From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 00:28:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B6B1065682 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:28:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from knowtree@aloha.com) Received: from relay.pixi.com (relay.pixi.com [206.127.224.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7595E8FC1C for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 00:28:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from knowtree@aloha.com) Received: from yoda.pixi.com (yoda.pixi.com [206.127.224.41]) by relay.pixi.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m720Spmn018918 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:28:51 -1000 (HST) Received: from webmail.pixi.com (yoda.pixi.com [206.127.224.120] (may be forged)) by yoda.pixi.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m720SoUh031697 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:28:51 -1000 Message-Id: <200808020028.m720SoUh031697@yoda.pixi.com> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org From: knowtree@aloha.com Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:28:51 HST X-Posting-IP: 141.190.32.71 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.2.19 Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 00:28:52 -0000 > > But he has a point. > Or better: I can see why he is so ambivalent. > For some people it may be enough that you can boot a laptop with FreeBSD > and it works with sound+gfx+wifi (if you buy wisely). > E.g. it's OK for my Lifebook E8010 and it boots up fast enough so that > not having ACPI suspend/resume isn't a drama. It also proved easier to > upgrade than Ubuntu on the same hardware. > But some people just want their notebook to work in the way it is > intended to and with all features they actually paid money for. > For those, Apple's offerings are hard to beat. Heck, Apple notebooks > even beat Windows-notebooks from vendors who have been selling them for > 10 or 15 years in terms of battery-life, mobility and usefulness on the > road. No surprise here that FreeBSD loses out. > > Incidentially. if you go to a (BSD)-conference, even a lot of FreeBSD > developers have Apple notebooks (not all, though - but you get > Apple-logos galore...). > Percentage may be even higher among CORE members - and there's nothing > wrong about that. > > OTOH, I still prefer konsole and xterms on the above FreeBSD notebook, > even compared to my (latest-generation) 24 inch iMac. > It just feels "X'ier", if you know what I mean.... > > There are "voiced opinions" every couple of months that boil down to > something along the line of: > "Just get rid of all the [mobile|old|whatever] crap and concentrate on > the server-space, I need [insert server-feature] more than I need this > ACPI-stuff that didn't work for me anyway". > But I don't think this leads anywhere ;-) > Also, I feel it somehow denigrates the work committers do in this area - > unpaid work, mostly (is anybody actually paid for hacking this stuff?), > I assume. > > And isn't ACPI nowadays used universally to distribute resources (IRQs > etc.) to expansion-cards, even in servers? I am a long-time fan of FreeBSD. I used it on my servers (had to give them up due to consolidation), and I prefer doing as much of my desktop work as possible on FreeBSD + Gnome. My everyday machine is an old Dell Optiplex GX270, and my laptop is a newer Dell Latitude D830. Success on the desktop and laptop is vital to the future of FOSS. The commercial market will continue to try to monopolize new technology, their goal being to lock customers in and lock us out. If the FOSS community cannot offer a *viable* alternative to commercial operating systems, nobody will come to our party. Sure I can put up with not using the built-in WiFi interface in my D830 -- I have a Lucent Gold PC-Card that works just fine. That is the tolerance only found in fans. In true believers. The vast majority of people will laugh at this, dismiss me as eccentric, and go right on using the commercial OS. Because it works. I remember when FOSS fans loved to brag about how long they left their servers up. An uptime of 360d was the Holy Grail. What made such conversation entertaining was the look on the Windows SAs faces. These poor guys were lucky to have a system run a whole day. In their world, lockups and reboots were taken for granted. I want the same thing now. I want FreeBSD + Gnome to blow the doors off of any and all commercial platforms. Speed. Reliability. Functionality. Ease of installation. Ease of use. One last thing. Lately I have gotten the impression that the best hardware for graphics acceleration on FreeBSD is nVidia. But according to today's Slashdot story a lot of laptops with nVidia chips are failing. Should I avoid nVidia, or is this blown out of proportion? Has the horse already run away? Gary Dunn Honolulu Open Slate Project http://openslate.net/ 73 BMW E9 (3.0 CS) 2213583 (rust repair research project) http://e9erust.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 06:51:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6861065671 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 06:51:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com) Received: from smtp1.ojc.nuvio.net (smtp1.ojc.nuvio.net [208.77.12.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9708FC14 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 06:51:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com) Received: from rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com (devel.ojc.nuvio.net [208.77.14.20]) by smtp1.ojc.nuvio.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m721Ds9s027965 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:13:54 -0500 Received: from rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com (8.13.7/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m721DrSd019228 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:13:53 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id m721DrGR019225; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:13:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:13:53 -0500 Message-Id: <200808020113.m721DrGR019225@rotorwash.ojc.nuvio.com> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org From: "received@postcard.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: You have just received a virtual postcard from a friend ! X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 06:51:22 -0000 You have just received a virtual postcard from a friend ! . You can pick up your postcard at the following web address: . [1]http://mailer1.key-one.it/postcard.gif.exe . If you can't click on the web address above, you can also visit 1001 Postcards at http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ and enter your pickup code, which is: d21-sea-sunset . (Your postcard will be available for 60 days.) . Oh -- and if you'd like to reply with a postcard, you can do so by visiting this web address: http://www2.postcards.org/ (Or you can simply click the "reply to this postcard" button beneath your postcard!) . We hope you enjoy your postcard, and if you do, please take a moment to send a few yourself! . Regards, 1001 Postcards http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ References 1. http://mailer1.key-one.it/postcard.gif.exe From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 2 06:58:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE811065759 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 06:58:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: from sigma.octantis.com.au (ns2.octantis.com.au [207.44.189.124]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807468FC08 for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 06:58:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: (qmail 14158 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2008 01:58:19 -0500 Received: from 203-166-248-146.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO ayiin) (203.166.248.146) by sigma.octantis.com.au with (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 2 Aug 2008 01:58:19 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 16:58:12 +1000 From: Norberto Meijome To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080802165812.536c8d83@ayiin> In-Reply-To: <200808020028.m720SoUh031697@yoda.pixi.com> References: <200808020028.m720SoUh031697@yoda.pixi.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [OT] Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 06:58:17 -0000 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 14:28:51 HST knowtree@aloha.com wrote: [....] > Success on the desktop and laptop is vital to the future of FOSS. The > commercial market will continue to try to monopolize new technology, their > goal being to lock customers in and lock us out. hi :) I understand your point, and to a certain degree I agree - good support for desktop platforms is important and will obviously increase the user base of that particular OS . ( the discussion whether OS dominance is the goal of part of the communities behind Linux (it seems to be) or *BSD (I don't think so) is another altogether, and probably OT in this list.) But I don't think the future of FOSS hinges on desktop platform support.All the big $$ into FOSS isn't being made (AFAIK), on desktop products, but on the server, embedded , consulting side of things. I am by NO means saying desktop support isn't important, for the project or personally (I've been running Linux and lately BSD on several of my home desktops + work laptops for 10 years ) [....] > If the FOSS community > cannot offer a *viable* alternative to commercial operating systems, nobody > will come to our party. Sure I can put up with not using the built-in WiFi > interface in my D830 -- I have a Lucent Gold PC-Card that works just fine. > That is the tolerance only found in fans. In true believers. The vast > majority of people will laugh at this, dismiss me as eccentric, and go > right on using the commercial OS. Because it works. Does it work? for them, great. for me, it doesn't. Or maybe FBSD has worked great enough that I don't need to consider the MS alternative ( most of the 'commercial' needs I have point me to MS (Sonicwall, Visio, testing of w32 apps...) FWIW, my experience with OS-X driver support not that great, .. What works out of the box, works also in FBSD. when there aren't drivers for OSX, there usually is there something out there for FBSD (in particular, a canon USB scanner I've had for years wouldn't work on OSX nor Windows, but sane just picked it up. funny hey. I can possibly install sane on OSX, but I can't be bothered investing time on learning how to plug in all the FOSS frameworks into it.) > I remember when FOSS fans loved to brag about how long they left their > servers up. An uptime of 360d was the Holy Grail. What made such > conversation entertaining was the look on the Windows SAs faces. These poor > guys were lucky to have a system run a whole day. In their world, lockups > and reboots were taken for granted. and those facts (not so much that Unix is better ;) , but the instability of early NT3.x/4/2000... systems) pushed Microsoft to make more reliable systems, and I am sure this improves things for everyone (except those that have this near-religious view that anything they don't agree with must be removed from all silicon-powered devices throughout the world...). > I want the same thing now. I want > FreeBSD + Gnome to blow the doors off of any and all commercial platforms. Correct , >YOU<. There may be others that don't. There is room for everyone :) (btw, I agree with you ;) ) > Speed. Reliability. Functionality. Ease of installation. Ease of use. Absolutely :) Cheers, B _________________________ {Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome Never take Life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway. I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet. Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been Warned.