From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 25 08:52:54 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57875106566C for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:52:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars.engels@0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.67.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11ED98FC1A for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:52:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars.engels@0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.67.217]) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D4E36375; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:36:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from i011-63.fin-nrw.de (i011-63.fin-nrw.de [193.109.238.130]) by 0x20.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:36:10 +0200 Message-ID: <20090525103610.w59sjodf4s44cgoc@0x20.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 10:36:10 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: james References: <20090422070546.58F8C891@drowsy.ifokr.org> <339358.92256.qm@web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <893823750904221446j1f955fbx508d1cb4f340dec@mail.gmail.com> <49EF9F4D.7060501@foster.cc> <49EFC042.7040004@gmail.com> <893823750904231023p1396fe81g2a5735f77c07ec6@mail.gmail.com> <49F0AE96.9030708@foster.cc> <49F0D78B.4050400@gmail.com> <4A153103.2060907@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4A153103.2060907@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_2659vayjokg0"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) Cc: FreeBSD Chat , GSLUG Subject: Re: System Scripts X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:52:54 -0000 This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed. --=_2659vayjokg0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quoting james : > are scripts that you make to make your life easier forbidden to share? > > I've been sharing mine at http://fishy.ath.cx/scripts.html which are > just simple scripts to solve problems... I wonder how many times people > have written the same scripts because they weren't available. Anyways > just an idea to create a site to share scripts, instead of having them > scattered across the internet and not knowing for what you're even > looking for exists. A nice page for such scripts is http://commandlinefu.com --=_2659vayjokg0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: PGP Digital Signature Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAkoaWHoACgkQKc512sD3afjziwCfeuQGRp4eNZ2sG64SsJBIZOEY tUoAnRpcJN2qrepE0BroVAxylAcZSvvf =DXg8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_2659vayjokg0-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 30 19:35:00 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649601065670 for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 19:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346C28FC0C for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 19:34:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: (qmail 13377 invoked from network); 30 May 2009 19:34:59 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 30 May 2009 19:34:59 -0000 Message-ID: <4A218A98.4@telenix.org> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:35:52 -0400 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <200905281030.n4SAUXdA046386@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th><200905280847.12966.kirk@strauser.com><200905280904.44025.kirk@strauser.com><20090528183801.82b36bbb.freebsd@edvax.de> <70C0964126D66F458E688618E1CD008A0793EDE2@WADPEXV0.waddell.com> <70C0964126D66F458E688618E1CD008A0793EDE6@WADPEXV0.waddell.com> <4A1EF742.7030606@otenet.gr> <4A2041ED.4010003@telenix.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Manolis Kiagias , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Gary Gatten Subject: Re: What is this forum for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 19:35:00 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Hey folks, all of you, could I please sugggest that this entire thread >> (under a >> variety of subject names) is an abuse of the lists? > > Generally i do agree with you. But - in my opinion there are lots of > other abuses. Whenever i pointed this out i got tons of protests from > others. > > So please - who should decide what's on and whats off topic? Wojciech, you want to respect POLA: the principle of least astonishment. It's not often applied to things like mailing lists, but folks exepct to see tech support on FreeBSD-Questions, and things like FreeBSD-boosterisms and flamewars on FreeBSD-chat, where they really are within the list rules. Expecting any possible solution to work 100% of the time (especially anything dealing with humans) is a very unfair tactic in trying to justify any view. What you want to look for is a solution that causes the least problems, and respecting the list rules does that. It won't fix all problems, but it does keep the noise level on our lists to a minimum, and maximizes the amount of help that can be passed on our lists. So, don't use the fact that you can point out single failures as a justification to enable people to act like list juveniles. I can' be the only person who likes the FreeBSD lists because they have such a far lower noise level than any Linux list, and we really do want to keep things that way. Respecting POLA is a fine way to go after that goal. I replied to this on FreeBSD-chat. Would really be appreciated if you could leave it there, and if anyone then complains, I'll help you myself in keeping the topic up, because it's a reasonable, allowed thing on FreeBSD-chat. > > For me - if talks about programs just because it runs under FreeBSD is > OK, then everything is OK. About politics, sport, choosing printservers. > > Why telling someone that want to "switch" from windows to FreeBSD that > better stay with windows is wrong? It's my opinion and my way to help > him/her to save time. And it's proved, over hundred people i know that > ever tried to "switch" to linux or FreeBSD, got back to windows within > short time. > > Of course - switching the way of using computer from windows-style to > unix-style is another thing, is very welcome and is likely to succeed. > > The argument "it's nothing wrong to help others" is a nonsense too. Yes > - help, but about FreeBSD, or on other list, or on priv. > > Or maybe democratic method - when more and louder shouts it's right - > it's right?! > > Doesn't you see a nonsense?! > > Once again - please DO MODERATED list, with clearly defined rules what's > right and what's not. Whatever the rules will be (approved/defined by > FreeBSD owners) - it will be OK. > > About stats i had to do - i AM working on this, but i was not aware how > much work it needs. I'm reading mails from february each year, and now > "processed" four years only. > > So sorry for not doing it for today morning, but i wasn't aware it's too > short time. > > > Another question - some of you said that "outdated" hardware is welcome > too as gifts for FreeBSD team. > > I actually have lots of them, and NON-typical things, that would be > useful. I prepared a list, and can make photos. > > I already sent a mail to one developer but got no response. Maybe he is > just busy or absent, anyway what's the best address for this. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 30 20:09:13 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EAA106564A for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 20:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B618FC1A for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 20:09:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n4UK94NK020109; Sat, 30 May 2009 22:09:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n4UK94Ec020106; Sat, 30 May 2009 22:09:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:09:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chuck Robey In-Reply-To: <4A218A98.4@telenix.org> Message-ID: References: <200905281030.n4SAUXdA046386@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th><200905280847.12966.kirk@strauser.com><200905280904.44025.kirk@strauser.com><20090528183801.82b36bbb.freebsd@edvax.de> <70C0964126D66F458E688618E1CD008A0793EDE2@WADPEXV0.waddell.com> <70C0964126D66F458E688618E1CD008A0793EDE6@WADPEXV0.waddell.com> <4A1EF742.7030606@otenet.gr> <4A2041ED.4010003@telenix.org> <4A218A98.4@telenix.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Manolis Kiagias , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Gary Gatten Subject: Re: What is this forum for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:09:13 -0000 > Wojciech, you want to respect POLA: the principle of least astonishment. It's could you explain this more. really first time i read this phrase :) > not often applied to things like mailing lists, but folks exepct to see tech > support on FreeBSD-Questions, me too, support about FREEBSD, not spam about others. and things like FreeBSD-boosterisms and flamewars > on FreeBSD-chat, where they really are within the list rules. > > Expecting any possible solution to work 100% of the time (especially anything i don't expect it to work 100% of time, but most of time. current slution doesn't work most of the time, giving 10% about FreeBSD and 90% off-topic, even excluding "flamewars". > dealing with humans) is a very unfair tactic in trying to justify any view. > What you want to look for is a solution that causes the least problems, and > respecting the list rules does that. Where are this rules defined? best with moderation BUT EVEN WITHOUT, but with clearly defined rules on webpage it could be efficient. the more clear - the more efficient. possibly some most-common examples to make it even clearer. > It won't fix all problems, but it does > keep the noise level on our lists to a minimum, and maximizes the amount of help > that can be passed on our lists. Help at all or help about FreeBSD. if at all - then let it be about everything. >> Another question - some of you said that "outdated" hardware is welcome >> too as gifts for FreeBSD team. >> >> I actually have lots of them, and NON-typical things, that would be >> useful. I prepared a list, and can make photos. >> >> I already sent a mail to one developer but got no response. Maybe he is >> just busy or absent, anyway what's the best address for this. > > just got this after a day: --- Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 23:47:08 +0400 From: Boris Samorodov To: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: sponsoring On Fri, 29 May 2009 22:27:43 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > you said that "outdated hardware" are very welcome. No, I had never said it. Please, stop spamming me. --- OK so fuck off Boris, but we were talking some time ago about dumping potential sponsors ;) anyone want to see my mail(s) it was a reply to?