From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 13 23:39:14 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05B6106566C for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:39:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f211.google.com (mail-ew0-f211.google.com [209.85.219.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A6C8FC24 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:39:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so239091ewy.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:39:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=wnGTdO4NHE4Q6BZHhRjTwc9qImLrl9fw8qTkWYGAE3I=; b=u1kNugpRagw+qNF0ZqPCPzM5ytU9OfqzYNr91jFAJ6SL3C4I/3Kt+2OSmXkp7GNgJK jrE9jcBVG7ziKuc14u1laqkxM4N7skXvkgIIu+H5O+CmseWveFPLypAH9LRQTDeTmUqw yJcJIsO3O5B5ISZoN9tsgQ060LwZz2OV5AtGk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=igJ3hw7UB9T3Rm6mIp0deeq5Nc4cpFm8pAkpGakbNfVqqdkVlAan0BwbI51mEeXFIl LbM1tL69x/otR5x0l7JIY+D2AYBiHMifLVm/HyF4Xp/lSUUIJZV3FuXCEqKfRHsSkCHj Sna1gywoN6cO6qMt4s2SCW0P5+S6hrtXNCFsg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.90.135 with SMTP id e7mr624134wef.34.1263424176769; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:09:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:09:36 +0100 Message-ID: <3f2022cd1001131509o3b31e884m512d9faf9ac0730b@mail.gmail.com> From: "deeptech71@gmail.com" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: FreeBSD anti-competitive activities X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:39:14 -0000 Well, well. Who would have thought that the FreeBSD Team would decide to implement a hack that would block booting of any Windows-like, and possibly other non-FreeBSD based operating environments? Just as soon as FreeBSD 8.0 came out, I downloaded a boot-only disc image and went off to reinstall FreeBSD (don't ask why). OK, it worked whatsoever. But as it turns out, I wasn't able to boot my Windows XP installation anymore. The system just froze when I tried booting my Windows XP slice. First I thought that the installation damaged the other partitions (someone added buggy code in sysinstall lately?). At that point I didn't dare to boot anything on the disk. I decided to give a try to Hiren's Boot CD, which has loads of warezed slicing/partitioning, recovery and backup tools, and also a loadable Mini Windows XP. I hoped I would be able to find out what happened. But guess what? Neither of the Boot CD tools were able to start up, not even the Mini Windows XP! They all froze just like my Windows XP. But that's just weird. On a whim, I disabled my disk drive in the BIOS settings. And guess what? Both the Mini Windows XP and the tools were able to start because of that. I was able to read the slices/partitions with them, and noticed that all my files on the FAT32 and NTFS slices were intact. So I continued to use only FreeBSD. It didn't hinder me (much), maybe FreeBSD as a desktop system was bit of a nuisance for some things I used to do only on Windows, but I got used to it later. So I can say that this facilitated (well, forced) a switch to using FreeBSD as a desktop system. Despite that I lost the ability to boot XP from my disk, I'm happy with the switch, and that is all that matters. :D ========================= OK, seriously. sysinstall asked something new when I installed 8.0, something like "It is safe to use a disk geometry of 123/45/6789 on modern computers... Would you like to use this disk geometry?", I chose "Yes". Safe my ass. I guess my computer doesn't fit in sysinstall's definition of "modern". But how can this destroy Windows apps? I mean FreeBSD works just fine, and can read everything from the FAT32 and NTFS partitions. So what does Windows stuff suck at? Should the disk geometry proposed in sysintall work according to some standard, but yet it doesn't, because Windows stuff is buggy? Or is it non-standard but, uniquely, FreeBSD works with it? Or is it something totally different? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 05:28:46 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117FB1065672 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:28:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rnodal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f202.google.com (mail-pz0-f202.google.com [209.85.222.202]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB308FC13 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:28:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pzk40 with SMTP id 40so1533568pzk.7 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:28:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=ZPZ/HGxTI8+Bk6IcOU7pvc1vAphfOExaxZTnxpzux8Y=; b=p9SXQOYooOPlxohpk+9eYk8to9p89JcIKqqfmc0AmKky4CvgwIzs1esaHbZFTeghJG eTLtAFyk35AJw3wOt7WnmHZk2fAHJbW4AXDH3TmxmqsuH3bet4jRNJf5PbaiVy99xyRP zePnhIJw2j6vHSdeRBkyZ20tKEDUNZDjv95fM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=wOQflE5nxHGdHnyfFKO9Yq8a+jp513UsWsFSxitjFOGc1Bo70CeciKzSCEq1go1onW yzCKvoqQw8g5K3R0pa+Pmv/CQGchyi879Vi2qfbQtqWr1V2e3ZaB2s3Cp66wyfEhhfjt nxSI4f+OsSRPV81n61xjlkI4mgifGBkTcNg90= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.115.100.36 with SMTP id c36mr188843wam.166.1263445557153; Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:05:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3f2022cd1001131509o3b31e884m512d9faf9ac0730b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f2022cd1001131509o3b31e884m512d9faf9ac0730b@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:05:37 -0500 Message-ID: <9d972bed1001132105t4c991942t9b7a7ec6a38f1428@mail.gmail.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: FreeBSD anti-competitive activities X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:28:46 -0000 I don't know about Windows XP but Windows 7 has an option to repair the MBR (don't quote me on the term) which will screw FreeBSD boot manager but after you re-install the FreeBSD manager again (after running the Windows 7 repair) everything will be fine. -r From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 09:37:02 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA421106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from mxout005.mail.hostpoint.ch (mxout005.mail.hostpoint.ch [217.26.49.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A0F8FC16 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:37:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.2.20] (helo=asmtp002.mail.hostpoint.ch) by mxout005.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NVLp4-000NSe-Hc for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:16:58 +0100 Received: from [82.136.101.114] (helo=atlantis.intranet) by asmtp002.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtpa (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NVLp4-000Itb-AA for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:16:58 +0100 Received: from [192.168.10.167] (pub212004072186.fx-hfc.datazug.ch [212.4.72.186]) by atlantis.intranet (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 181151A098 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:16:58 +0100 (CET) X-Authenticated-Sender-Id: mail@maxlor.com From: Benjamin Lutz To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:16:56 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 X-Face: $Ov27?7*N,h60fIEfNJdb!m,@#4T/d; 1hw|W0zvsHM(a$Yn6BYQ0^SEEXvi8>D`|V*F"=?utf-8?q?=5F+=0A=09R2?=@Aq>+mNb4`,'[[%z9v0Fa~]AD1}xQO3|>b.z&}l#R-_(P`?@Mz"kS; XC>Eti,i3>%@=?utf-8?q?g=3F=0A=094f?=,\c7|Ghwb&ky$b2PJ^\0b83NkLsFKv|smL/cI4UD%Tu8alAD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> Subject: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:37:02 -0000 Last night, I got an email from one of my users for whom I handle emails. He said that friend sent him a large email, which was rejected because of its size; and that his friend now gets a notice to that effect every minute. What had happened? 1) The friend sent a 20MB Email to my user's public email account. 2) Fetchmail downloads that 20MB email from the public POP3 server. 3) Fetchmail tries to pass the email to the local postfix server. 4) Postfix refuses the email with a permanent 552 error because it's larger than 10MB. 5) Fetchmail generates and sends a rejection notice, but does not delete the 20MB Email from the POP3 server because the "softbounce" option is still the default. 6) Fetchmail sleeps 60 seconds. 7) Continue at step 2). The damage done: - roughly 20GB of bandwidth wasted by downloading the 20MB email over and over. - an estimated 1000 rejection notices sent to the poor guy who originally sent the 20MB email (well, that should teach him not to send big mails! :) - personal embarassment. The lessons learned: - I need better monitoring. I already monitor postfix's queue size and get alerts if it goes above a certain size, but in this case, the email in question never ended up in the queue. Monitoring bandwidth usage at the firewall and mails-per-hour at the mail server (which includes error notices) should let me detect sooner that something is amiss next time. - Postfix's default 10MB size limit seems outdated seeing how internet connections have become faster; I've upped it to 50MB. - Fetchmail's defaults are dangerous. The softbounce option, which is the default (the manpage claims it'll be disabled by default with the next version,) can generate large amounts of spam. Cheers Benjamin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 10:46:05 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8979F106566B for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:46:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker-dated-1264156176.26986c@rwxrwxrwx.net) Received: from mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (mail.rwxrwxrwx.net [83.161.253.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C808FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:46:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3B9AE216D57; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:29:36 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:29:36 +0100 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:29:35 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100114102935.GA16435@rwxrwxrwx.net> References: <3f2022cd1001131509o3b31e884m512d9faf9ac0730b@mail.gmail.com> <9d972bed1001132105t4c991942t9b7a7ec6a38f1428@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9d972bed1001132105t4c991942t9b7a7ec6a38f1428@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Martin Tournoij Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD anti-competitive activities X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:46:05 -0000 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:05:37AM -0500, Roger wrote: > I don't know about Windows XP but Windows 7 has an option to repair > the MBR (don't quote me on the term) which will screw FreeBSD boot > manager but after you re-install the FreeBSD manager again (after > running the Windows 7 repair) everything will be fine. > > -r You can use the fixboot and/or fixmbr commands from the XP commandline after you've booted from the CD. Anyhow, I have a FreeBSD 8 and WinXP multiboot, both installations work just fine. This is an Asus A8N board, not new. Your problems could be anything from a damaged hard disk to chance. Examine the problem more closely before screaming foul. -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net | (+031) 621 991 576 http://www.carpetsmoker.net | http://www.daemonforums.org QOTD: Faith is the quality that enables you to eat blackberry jam on a picnic without looking to see whether the seeds move. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 12:07:41 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9A6106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:07:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A7F8FC19 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:07:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37BC01FFC22; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:07:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 122A184495; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:07:40 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Benjamin Lutz References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:07:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> (Benjamin Lutz's message of "Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:16:56 +0100") Message-ID: <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:07:41 -0000 Benjamin Lutz writes: > 2) Fetchmail downloads that 20MB email from the public POP3 server. > 3) Fetchmail tries to pass the email to the local postfix server. > 4) Postfix refuses the email with a permanent 552 error because > it's larger than 10MB. > 5) Fetchmail generates and sends a rejection notice, but does not > delete the 20MB Email from the POP3 server because the > "softbounce" option is still the default. > 6) Fetchmail sleeps 60 seconds. > 7) Continue at step 2). > [...] > - Fetchmail's defaults are dangerous. The softbounce option, which is the > default (the manpage claims it'll be disabled by default with the next > version,) can generate large amounts of spam. None of this would have happened if you were using IMAP instead of POP. Unlike POP, IMAP a) provides a way to mark a message as "processed" without deleting it and b) does not renumber messages or reuse message numbers. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 13:31:36 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FD0106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:31:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pit@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us) Received: from outbound-mail-125.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-125.bluehost.com [67.222.38.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CB3A88FC0A for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:31:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 31859 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 2010 13:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box264.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.64) by outboundproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2010 13:31:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=joseph-a-nagy-jr.us; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=q2eQXTCeOgUgbvnE2nphNhhhGExnn+QMbGW2oQIe+p+3dVnqlbZ/erShnLbFiwXf7SGGUSN6XEY7o1PVPclAaPnsMeIJlPLRnoTlOiZahyqJ8hjuG2moQ5X9OqoigQIh; Received: from [206.74.86.236] (helo=[192.168.1.51]) by box264.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NVPnO-0006ZL-AE for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:31:35 -0700 Message-ID: <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:31:12 -0600 From: Programmer In Training User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigD08C3F675BA9F26B32B8462F" X-Identified-User: {2250:box264.bluehost.com:ameliora:joseph-a-nagy-jr.us} {sentby:smtp auth 206.74.86.236 authed with pit@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us} Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:31:36 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigD08C3F675BA9F26B32B8462F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1/14/2010 6:07 AM, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > None of this would have happened if you were using IMAP instead of POP.= > Unlike POP, IMAP a) provides a way to mark a message as "processed" > without deleting it and b) does not renumber messages or reuse message > numbers. >=20 > DES A possible solution, but who likes IMAP? I much prefer POP3 and having the mail locally (I delete it from the server once it's copied). Also, it seems as if he's downloading it from the other users (the person who sent the email) mail server and there is no way to force the other mail server to use one standard over another (although in this case a useless thought). The problem is it was not able to get into the local mail queue because of certain default settings (which at one time probably made sense). This problem would have occurred if he were using IMAP or POP3 since it never made it into his mail servers queue. This was bouncing between his server and the original sender's server. I do think a 20MB email is rather ridiculous. Even with today's age of broadband I wouldn't allow files over 10MB and I would make sure my users noticed that. I would also have a hard bounce enabled for messages that went over the size limit. Just my $2 --=20 PIT All original parts of emails (C) under http://owl.apotheon.org --------------enigD08C3F675BA9F26B32B8462F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLTxymAAoJEENZQ8DH7rW0k1gH/25EHxWN9oXtNOBHhlbMS74d lRHgI8fxhzOb266hKGp++qUljapvyzNKEFuO5MRJJBTY9szjzpNEyFE2o3n4fcnv TAJ2oHVz2ZXoJUNVwkid9p6wtjMFUvmM/zTmjp+e+3XK3o5ijZd+HyIXgWFmuzuw 0jnAaW+/Jl3eZ4iIH9opYR/7mNJV3zJSQG1179zV/nNqZ7fyoFrw9Qk8PIxCKKEx W5CLKsjYbts7BKKwzEqW1PgU4+/vZfUBB5ONDD3qOSuZ+DuQRR4p20nRyFSqQo/N RgdDQjl2buZvP8vMC1BoxXCWtXvp7CBSOB2nMd0b3tdn/EkOLcEVQwpwH3IhlWI= =BGR6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigD08C3F675BA9F26B32B8462F-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 13:40:06 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC251065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:40:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (adsl-63-193-123-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.123.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7A68FC17 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:40:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id o0EDSqTH075214; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:28:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david@bunrab.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id o0EDSqdS075213; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:28:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:28:52 -0800 From: David Wolfskill To: Benjamin Lutz Message-ID: <20100114132852.GF86359@bunrab.catwhisker.org> References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bzbqqSE9NzptQ+zO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:40:06 -0000 --bzbqqSE9NzptQ+zO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:16:56AM +0100, Benjamin Lutz wrote: > ... > The lessons learned: > - I need better monitoring. I already monitor postfix's queue size and > get alerts if it goes above a certain size, but in this case, the email > in question never ended up in the queue. Monitoring bandwidth usage at > the firewall and mails-per-hour at the mail server (which includes error > notices) should let me detect sooner that something is amiss next time. For monitoring various Postfix queue sizes, I wrote (and sent a copy to postfix-users@ 2 - 3 years ago) a Perl script that did the job significantly more efficiently than the then-current practice of some of my colleagues at my employer at the time. I believe I called it "qstat". If you're not already using it, and are concerned with Postfix queue sizes over time, I recommend at least checking it out. (Its use can also help someone new to Postfix get a better grasp of how messages move from one queue to another during the course of Postfix processing.) > - Postfix's default 10MB size limit seems outdated seeing how internet > connections have become faster; I've upped it to 50MB. Errr... it's a "default" because it's a configuration parameter that you're welcome to change should your situation warrant such a change. While this is rather an "apples vs. oranges" pseudo-comparison, I note that the maximum allowable size for messages on most of the technical lists @FreeBSD.org is 200KB. > - Fetchmail's defaults are dangerous. The softbounce option, which is the > default (the manpage claims it'll be disabled by default with the next > version,) can generate large amounts of spam. I would strongly encourage great caution in any effort involving generating email as a result of post-processing an email message that has completed "final delivery" (in the MTA, vs. human, sense). Note that a message in that state may well lack reliable indications of the envelope-sender and -recipient addresses. Even declining to accept such a (secondary) message (by rejecting deliivery) can easily be problematic (at best). And any message awaiting access via POP has undergone final delivery already. Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --bzbqqSE9NzptQ+zO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAktPHBMACgkQmprOCmdXAD27dgCfbzhxi2sKj/rJcQZKr0IZ/2nV WV4Anj4oT9d7ODbup1audAa7XQLXq4vi =uHju -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bzbqqSE9NzptQ+zO-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 13:50:49 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86470106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:50:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@maxlor.com) Received: from mxout002.mail.hostpoint.ch (mxout002.mail.hostpoint.ch [217.26.49.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FEE58FC24 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:50:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.2.10] (helo=asmtp001.mail.hostpoint.ch) by mxout002.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NVQ63-000Bsc-F0 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:50:47 +0100 Received: from [82.136.101.114] (helo=atlantis.intranet) by asmtp001.mail.hostpoint.ch with esmtpa (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NVQ63-0008RZ-AL for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:50:47 +0100 Received: from [192.168.10.167] (pub212004072186.fx-hfc.datazug.ch [212.4.72.186]) by atlantis.intranet (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 110A51A553 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:50:47 +0100 (CET) X-Authenticated-Sender-Id: mail@maxlor.com From: Benjamin Lutz To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:50:45 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> In-Reply-To: <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> X-Face: $Ov27?7*N,h60fIEfNJdb!m,@#4T/d; 1hw|W0zvsHM(a$Yn6BYQ0^SEEXvi8>D`|V*F"=?utf-8?q?=5F+=0A=09R2?=@Aq>+mNb4`,'[[%z9v0Fa~]AD1}xQO3|>b.z&}l#R-_(P`?@Mz"kS; XC>Eti,i3>%@=?utf-8?q?g=3F=0A=094f?=,\c7|Ghwb&ky$b2PJ^\0b83NkLsFKv|smL/cI4UD%Tu8alAD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201001141450.45713.mail@maxlor.com> Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:50:49 -0000 On Thursday 14 January 2010 14:31:12 Programmer In Training wrote: > A possible solution, but who likes IMAP? I much prefer POP3 and having > the mail locally (I delete it from the server once it's copied). Heh, I do, actually. The whole setup is aggregating mails from different mail accounts and mailservers outside of my (or this user's) direct control, so they can be made available via IMAP, to be perused with any client machine from anywhere. > Also, it seems as if he's downloading it from the other users (the > person who sent the email) mail server and there is no way to force the > other mail server to use one standard over another (although in this > case a useless thought). The problem is it was not able to get into the > local mail queue because of certain default settings (which at one time > probably made sense). Yup, that's how it is. They're making the emails available via POP3, and I have to live with it. At least they support more than plain text password authentication by now. > I do think a 20MB email is rather ridiculous. Even with today's age of > broadband I wouldn't allow files over 10MB and I would make sure my > users noticed that. I would also have a hard bounce enabled for messages > that went over the size limit. Personally, I agree that email is not a particularly efficient means for file transfer. I don't see a reason to be draconic about the size though; there's enough bandwidth and diskspace available so that allowing large emails doesn't have much of an impact with a low volume setup such as mine. And everyone else can set up their limits however they like. Cheers Benjamin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 13:51:04 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51398106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:51:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from nyi.unixathome.org (nyi.unixathome.org [64.147.113.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2716D8FC21 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:51:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555AC508E7; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:51:03 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixathome.org Received: from nyi.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nyi.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VJGEhn+SqvqO; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:51:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp-auth.unixathome.org (smtp-auth.unixathome.org [10.4.7.7]) (Authenticated sender: hidden) by nyi.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48AF6508B6 ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:51:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <4B4F214D.2000407@langille.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:51:09 -0500 From: Dan Langille User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Programmer In Training References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> In-Reply-To: <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:51:04 -0000 Programmer In Training wrote: > On 1/14/2010 6:07 AM, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >> None of this would have happened if you were using IMAP instead of POP. >> Unlike POP, IMAP a) provides a way to mark a message as "processed" >> without deleting it and b) does not renumber messages or reuse message >> numbers. >> >> DES > > A possible solution, but who likes IMAP? Many people. > I much prefer POP3 and having > the mail locally (I delete it from the server once it's copied). Good on you. But don't go trashing another solution just because you don't like it. :) Damn it. I fed the troll. Sorry folks. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 14:22:35 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4647F1065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:22:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A908FC15 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:22:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66EF71FFC22; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:22:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 17533844A1; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:22:33 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Programmer In Training References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:22:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> (Programmer In Training's message of "Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:31:12 -0600") Message-ID: <861vhsvk9i.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:22:35 -0000 Programmer In Training writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > None of this would have happened if you were using IMAP instead of POP. > A possible solution, but who likes IMAP? Pretty much anyone who likes software that works properly and protocols that help rather than hinder the software's efforts to not royally f**k up your mailbox. > I much prefer POP3 and having the mail locally (I delete it from the > server once it's copied). You can do that with IMAP as well. > Also, it seems as if he's downloading it from the other users (the > person who sent the email) mail server and there is no way to force the > other mail server to use one standard over another (although in this > case a useless thought). Who doesn't support IMAP these days? > The problem is it was not able to get into the local mail queue > because of certain default settings (which at one time probably made > sense). No, the problem was that it was processed multiple times. This could have been avoided with IMAP. > This problem would have occurred if he were using IMAP or POP3 > since it never made it into his mail servers queue. This was bouncing > between his server and the original sender's server. No, read the OP again. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 15:49:39 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E0B106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:49:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47328FC34 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:49:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o0EFnDjL012190; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:49:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id UHUKcmC1Lqh4; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:49:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (ezekiel.daleco.biz [66.76.92.18]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0EFn0nc012186; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:49:08 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4B4F3CEC.2030305@daleco.biz> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:49:00 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> <861vhsvk9i.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <861vhsvk9i.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Programmer In Training Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:49:39 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Programmer In Training writes: >> Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes: >>> None of this would have happened if you were using IMAP instead of POP. >> A possible solution, but who likes IMAP? > > Pretty much anyone who likes software that works properly and protocols > that help rather than hinder the software's efforts to not royally f**k > up your mailbox. But not Microsoft, apparently, or anyone whose primary usage of the IMAP protocol depends on their impression of the way Outlook plays with it. My $0.02, KDK P.S. Glad this is chat, or I'd *definitely* be trolling. Probably am anyways, but I needed to vent over a recent issue in regards to the above. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 14 21:55:18 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49F21065679 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:55:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pit@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us) Received: from outbound-mail-158.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-158.bluehost.com [67.222.39.38]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 733618FC13 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:55:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 25746 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 2010 21:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box264.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.64) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2010 21:55:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=joseph-a-nagy-jr.us; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=eLz2PPXPTcrWiGP6Htgga3T1VUZFseYvrz0SeARjtK+FoYEQCyOMsP1CkPAIxv2MsTJRqN5GSPQ22DhCs+If0drBkq15VKPlaVIBUQ5UY769JqaFmVSLZP/3ubxJupEa; Received: from [206.74.86.236] (helo=[192.168.1.51]) by box264.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NVXev-0004fb-Pa for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:55:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4B4F92BF.90108@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:55:11 -0600 From: Programmer In Training User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <867hrkx52s.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4B4F1CA0.3070000@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us> <4B4F214D.2000407@langille.org> In-Reply-To: <4B4F214D.2000407@langille.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig8020F8B563957ACE7F534E68" X-Identified-User: {2250:box264.bluehost.com:ameliora:joseph-a-nagy-jr.us} {sentby:smtp auth 206.74.86.236 authed with pit@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us} Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:55:18 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig8020F8B563957ACE7F534E68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1/14/2010 7:51 AM, Dan Langille wrote: > Damn it. I fed the troll. Sorry folks. Sorry if it seemed like a troll, that wasn't my intent. --=20 PIT --------------enig8020F8B563957ACE7F534E68 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLT5K/AAoJEENZQ8DH7rW0PGcIALYfRwkhMGEm+u2DIy+uSuFE QCbLlyNkzS4CyDi6p1CZFcU+TuPx55ys0ZeKRl14h0Atigm55OXlGGQDGHV4zh1k wRhWczR96ASdtQxhRxu3E+OFdyVh912SU0HIx6youCypOXMKY9KJz7TC6EuHqXo+ ZBeJeLkeR0vkZFYjmYVGTvc86UxNOlbqtBNNiw83mefoaj8QHw7qUXGjQ279EPT6 0wTVqo1HQC0mfFRCGxO0R259UwHtzbSWMropReFk7Psxm8ImmRAs67Kpc2N94sM/ HZQ+4vzg5lGBFn4BJCAZ1eOAYw0yzNF640lDylAKzneZCod0d0DBF/00VqFtMAs= =Km7u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig8020F8B563957ACE7F534E68-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 15 02:34:34 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561D21065701 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:34:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron3-mailrl.sfsu.edu (iron3-mailrl.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347278FC19 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:34:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAJtjT0uC1B9C/2dsb2JhbADMeAEJBYUNhk+CRoFqBIQbgVaEcw Received: from edg02.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.66]) by iron3.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 14 Jan 2010 18:34:17 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.83) by EDG02.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:34:17 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:34:17 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2010011418341510-17 ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:34:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:34:15 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Roger In-Reply-To: <9d972bed1001132105t4c991942t9b7a7ec6a38f1428@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <3f2022cd1001131509o3b31e884m512d9faf9ac0730b@mail.gmail.com> <9d972bed1001132105t4c991942t9b7a7ec6a38f1428@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 01/14/2010 18:34:15, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 01/14/2010 18:34:16, Serialize complete at 01/14/2010 18:34:16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD anti-competitive activities X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:34:34 -0000 On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Roger wrote: > I don't know about Windows XP but Windows 7 has an option to repair > the MBR (don't quote me on the term) which will screw FreeBSD boot > manager but after you re-install the FreeBSD manager again (after > running the Windows 7 repair) everything will be fine. UNCLE BILL OFF MY HD!!! > > -r > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 15 07:36:35 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FE8106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:36:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@shute.org.uk) Received: from atmail-10.bnguk.net (atmail-10.bnguk.net [80.74.253.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE3A8FC14 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:36:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 77-44-105-82.xdsl.murphx.net ([77.44.105.82] helo=orange.esperance-linux.co.uk) by atmail-10.bnguk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NVgFS-00038y-R8; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:05:34 +0000 Received: by orange.esperance-linux.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DD9D54AC20; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:05:32 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:05:32 +0000 From: Frank Shute To: Benjamin Lutz Message-ID: <20100115070532.GA75137@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Benjamin Lutz , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Face: *}~{PHnDTzvXPe'wl_-f%!@+r5; VLhb':*DsX%wEOPg\fDrXWQJf|2\,92"DdS%63t*BHDyQ|OWo@Gfjcd72eaN!4%NE{0]p)ihQ1MyFNtWL X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE-p1 amd64 X-Organisation: 'shute.org.uk' Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:36:36 -0000 On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:16:56AM +0100, Benjamin Lutz wrote: > > Last night, I got an email from one of my users for whom I handle emails. He > said that friend sent him a large email, which was rejected because of its > size; and that his friend now gets a notice to that effect every minute. > > What had happened? > > 1) The friend sent a 20MB Email to my user's public email account. > 2) Fetchmail downloads that 20MB email from the public POP3 server. > 3) Fetchmail tries to pass the email to the local postfix server. > 4) Postfix refuses the email with a permanent 552 error because > it's larger than 10MB. > 5) Fetchmail generates and sends a rejection notice, but does not > delete the 20MB Email from the POP3 server because the > "softbounce" option is still the default. > 6) Fetchmail sleeps 60 seconds. > 7) Continue at step 2). > > The damage done: > - roughly 20GB of bandwidth wasted by downloading the 20MB email over > and over. > - an estimated 1000 rejection notices sent to the poor guy who originally > sent the 20MB email (well, that should teach him not to send big mails! :) > - personal embarassment. > > The lessons learned: > - I need better monitoring. I already monitor postfix's queue size and > get alerts if it goes above a certain size, but in this case, the email > in question never ended up in the queue. Monitoring bandwidth usage at > the firewall and mails-per-hour at the mail server (which includes error > notices) should let me detect sooner that something is amiss next time. > - Postfix's default 10MB size limit seems outdated seeing how internet > connections have become faster; I've upped it to 50MB. > - Fetchmail's defaults are dangerous. The softbounce option, which is the > default (the manpage claims it'll be disabled by default with the next > version,) can generate large amounts of spam. > > Cheers > Benjamin Benjamin, You might want to give getmail a try. In the getmail conf you can limit the size of emails it fetches. I'm not sure you can do that with fetchmail. As you say, the guy who sent a >10MB email was rather silly, although I don't know what the "standard Windows user" uses for file transfer other than email. It's not like they usually have a web server set up. Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 15 12:23:32 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670FA1065670 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:23:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5A68FC0A for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:23:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so491207bwz.3 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 04:23:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=E0bys/LMoCa52AQ8kfPtMZUYukunUiIChmCP7lBuTvc=; b=FD1HozgMHcQ/Tm4Vu2221gl4IUqmHvR+R4CDuywLmG6oRu2r3vWkHS5B6IqPtskLuS M73EmobKgeRwxaG7qz0B+Q4O78Hmd3BYErfOdv9u5+CEMZYJCbppBF37fpUVmxhDZBjB V9uPNrjvGUfu51PPoSHfhlI+bers7F0IQjWOI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=lZklWivGKjM5YkJuo/gdVj6d6rXGhI0cms8efzRk91Vdm3bv/cwhdjiZ+F/2p6EcJI m2zJQ/T6myuwz9K3ojya7y8jpd5tgOxbO57f5XxqxAUmjxPGLQSJ64rgS49P/ULKK3Fb ofqA10h+D8epuLwFRUAfwSRsVGE+KaUhfeNng= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.10.19 with SMTP id n19mr1221102bkn.19.1263558204858; Fri, 15 Jan 2010 04:23:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100115070532.GA75137@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> References: <201001141016.56877.mail@maxlor.com> <20100115070532.GA75137@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:23:24 +0000 Message-ID: From: Jayton Garnett To: Frank Shute , Benjamin Lutz , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: How Fetchmail made me a spammer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:23:32 -0000 We have clients that send large legal documents & others that send multiple presentations in one email. As an admin it seems silly and we all say "use FTP" but the EU's are non-technical and they don't see a reason to use another method of transferring files when they have one they've been using since before we took them on as customers, so they don't want to change - they pay the bills so we have to adapt, which is fair enough to an extent. Obviously when they want to send files larger than 20Mb we do insist on other methods (and reworking their documents to reduce the size, some .doc's can contain 6Mb hi-res images that have been reduced to fit in the document), in any case this is still a rare occasion. FYI -Exchange is set to 10Mb as default. Just because we as techie's know *better* ways to send large files, doesn't mean non-techie's do, it's a good thing too because we'd be out of a job :) Regards, Jay