From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 02:30:04 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B32106564A for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:30:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728B28FC0C for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:30:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WildRover.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09037 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:58:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:57:57 -0700 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:30:04 -0000 Everyone: I just got a call from the owner of a hotel for which we provide hotspot service. She says that a guest spotted the "Powered by FreeBSD" logo at the bottom of the login page, and was offended; the guest was convinced that either we or the hotel management "worshipped the Devil" and refused to stay at the hotel unless the logo was removed. The owner could make no headway by explaining that the besneakered mascot was a cartoon character and was a daemon, not the Devil. And she feared upsetting the guest even more if she said that large portions of the same software are inside every Mac and iPad. The hotel stands to lose more than $1000 if the guest, who had originally planned to stay for a long period, moves out. One of our tech support people also got a call directly from the hotel guest, who claimed that having the logo on the page constituted "abuse." The guest also claimed to be "losing money" because she wouldn't use the hotspot if there was a "devil" on the splash page. He didn't even realize what she was talking about at first.... He couldn't imagine why on Earth this person was calling him and going on about devils. Attempts at misguided religious censorship notwithstanding, I don't want to see one of my ISP's customers lose business. And I'd like to keep a FreeBSD logo on our hotspot page. Is there artwork that doesn't include horned creatures that might offend the ignorant or superstitious? --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 03:04:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ACB3106564A for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:04:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from w3.lemis.com (w3.lemis.com [208.86.224.149]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF458FC0A for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:04:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dereel.lemis.com (1032.x.rootbsd.net [208.86.224.149]) by w3.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD763BAA5; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:52:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dereel.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id AAA80DADE7; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:52:30 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:52:30 +1100 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Brett Glass Message-ID: <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kjpMrWxdCilgNbo1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5346-1370 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:04:44 -0000 --kjpMrWxdCilgNbo1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday, 29 November 2011 at 18:57:57 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > Everyone: > > I just got a call from the owner of a hotel for which we provide > hotspot service. She says that a guest spotted the "Powered by > FreeBSD" logo at the bottom of the login page, and was offended; Where's this? > Attempts at misguided religious censorship notwithstanding, I don't > want to see one of my ISP's customers lose business. And I'd like to > keep a FreeBSD logo on our hotspot page. Is there artwork that > doesn't include horned creatures that might offend the ignorant or > superstitious? Take a look at the horrible series of geometric figures like in the banner at http://www.freebsd.org/. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua --kjpMrWxdCilgNbo1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk7Vmm4ACgkQIubykFB6QiMf6wCfQ6EMc6eLFSOp9Wt2caZsc/LF yNgAn19K3oKEpB87ksCLFKn/Zp62Rppc =GntM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kjpMrWxdCilgNbo1-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 08:24:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9E0106564A for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:24:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDE28FC15 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:24:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WildRover.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10764; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:24:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:24:23 -0700 To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:24:19 -0000 At 07:52 PM 11/29/2011, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >Where's this? The hotel is in Laramie, Wyoming, but the guest is obviously from elsewhere or would not be a hotel guest. >Take a look at the horrible series of geometric figures like in the >banner at http://www.freebsd.org/. Alas, these still have horns. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 08:29:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7199106566C for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:29:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AE88FC12 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:29:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from WildRover.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10796; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:29:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201111300829.BAA10796@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:29:14 -0700 To: Aryeh Friedman From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:29:09 -0000 At 01:26 AM 11/30/2011, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >Ask the guest if it is not also true cow's have horns so that means that all cattle are Satan worshipers? You're being rational. Alas, ignorant and/or superstitious people are not. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 08:48:45 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524BB1065677; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:48:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26688FC15; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:48:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywp17 with SMTP id 17so617207ywp.13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:48:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=gWOQeqwMoB2KMvFQS4dIdaU8KwlNSRyGNGahpkrJOYg=; b=nb8NcpI6hx70nvWqIJjAWE5ks+57g5xT6sf0B69weC9Kud4F9Hk1cVqXQn7qLxn9Hg 9heTvbj4XBdxV9YRkz+C6UpA6y4KwhLjrC64W0uwPy8Pwi6d0Juk5uXpxwx/KYj62fvt lIQ8fntGbBDs8N6Liw3jdGXE8l0Z1DvJg/guw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.15.232 with SMTP id a8mr5232327pbd.129.1322641569978; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:26:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.27.35 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:26:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:26:09 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aryeh Friedman To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:48:45 -0000 Ask the guest if it is not also true cow's have horns so that means that all cattle are Satan worshipers? On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:52 PM 11/29/2011, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > >Where's this? > > The hotel is in Laramie, Wyoming, but the guest is obviously from > elsewhere or would not be a hotel guest. > > >Take a look at the horrible series of geometric figures like in the > >banner at http://www.freebsd.org/. > > Alas, these still have horns. > > --Brett Glass > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 09:05:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB32106566B; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:05:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulf@alameda.net) Received: from mail.alameda.net (mail.alameda.net [194.55.105.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABE18FC1A; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 04C511CC94; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:34:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:34:24 -0800 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: Brett Glass Message-ID: <20111130083424.GL19016@evil.alameda.net> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.5-PRERELEASE X-ANI-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ANI-MailScanner-ID: 04C511CC94.A0FFE X-ANI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ANI-MailScanner-From: ulf@alameda.net Cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:05:14 -0000 On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 01:24:23AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:52 PM 11/29/2011, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > >Where's this? > > The hotel is in Laramie, Wyoming, but the guest is obviously from > elsewhere or would not be a hotel guest. > > >Take a look at the horrible series of geometric figures like in the > >banner at http://www.freebsd.org/. > > Alas, these still have horns. > > --Brett Glass > Take one of the "Powered by" from http://www.freebsd.org/art.html and just cut off the right part of the mascot? -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://www.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 09:08:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D689106566B for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tonyt@logyst.com) Received: from smtp.webfaction.com (mail6.webfaction.com [74.55.86.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92398FC18 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by smtp.webfaction.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80FFB207905F for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:45:51 -0600 (CST) Received: by bkat2 with SMTP id t2so135485bka.13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:45:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.117.14 with SMTP id fk14mr1125087bkc.116.1322642750166; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.89.15 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:45:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:45:50 +1100 Message-ID: From: Tony Theodore To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:08:19 -0000 On 30 November 2011 12:57, Brett Glass wrote: [...] > > Attempts at misguided religious censorship notwithstanding, I don't want = to > see one of my =C2=A0ISP's customers lose business. And I'd like to keep a= FreeBSD > logo on our hotspot page. Is there artwork that doesn't include horned > creatures that might offend the ignorant or superstitious? Maybe it's also the association with red and flames that may offend - perhaps one of the b/w outlines? This looks like cutesy blobs of paint: http://www.freebsd.org/logo/postcard4.jpg but then text may offend... Cheers, Tony From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 09:38:45 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7641065673 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com (mail-qw0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE138FC08 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qaea17 with SMTP id a17so3084711qae.13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:38:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.210.130 with SMTP id gk2mr588404qab.23.1322644198162; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:09:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.253.5 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:09:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:09:58 +0100 Message-ID: From: William Palfreman To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:38:45 -0000 On 30 November 2011 02:57, Brett Glass wrote: > Everyone: > > I just got a call from the owner of a hotel for which we provide hotspot > service. She says that a guest spotted the "Powered by FreeBSD" logo at the > bottom of the login page, and was offended; the guest was convinced that > either we or the hotel management "worshipped the Devil" and refused to stay > at the hotel unless the logo was removed. Just remove the logo. The customer is always right. You are under no obligation to advertise FreeBSD. It costs yo nothing to remove, and it makes a huge financial difference to your customer. In general, I never put "Powered by whatever" on anything. Back-end things should be invisible to end-users. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 10:45:58 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D35D106564A for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:45:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tal@whatexit.org) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236728FC13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:45:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eaai12 with SMTP id i12so732611eaa.13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:45:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=whatexit.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cb39++mvLha1InYAgwKwYUkvewsULm8ZHBLzGuzGlF4=; b=OPrFjWeWSflh4ndhKb+GCMye4kd0P62sfqnvQakzZF9h2HBDbhpYptYllE6Mjuk+IM wTaXnYRBg6vNi5xDeAL06ZRo7bvTsFKsZUMgbm2Z6a6xQWn9wKWYYfVqMqE0x+WtyR7M PKRdneL4qFdFvupisD0K7NH1dVht6T81LHQ5o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.181.11.226 with SMTP id el2mr1179227wid.64.1322648194738; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.121.141 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:16:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:16:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: Tom Limoncelli To: William Palfreman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Brett Glass , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:45:58 -0000 This is yet another reason why it was brilliant for Linux to have a Penguin as their logo. Up until then all Unix imagery was counter-productive to wide adoption: It was mostly wizards (a reminder that Unix is difficult to use and only understood by few) or devils (which is just plain confusing to the 99.99% of the planet that hasn't taken Operating Systems 101 in college). This is not a new thing. This story is probably older than a lot of people on this mailing list: http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/daemon.html (and I heard Laura tell the story once in person) Tom P.S. Speaking of being old.... next week is the 25th Usenix LISA conference. Who's coming to Boston? Will there be a BSD BoF? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 13:08:35 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFE5106566B for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:08:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87E08FC14 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:08:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eaai12 with SMTP id i12so951289eaa.13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:08:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=R0D+OKNdasoR68r71tXu41rY9BC0diYP31sPH1QbeME=; b=AxEEv41jSj/stZtE0kF+Z8EJPVy3FVv2nqncLF5/A+iKuo6d2IySWRQjZiPCOugyBl A9RCFUsWSDpFjjQKhyw7/UtYtGtClPz6qhdlYBOzz0eHJnaKzEit8Ws1xl1caT207nzB NL8++idaKxI8cFkpdT7Q6hR5D9BcNePRMnEXI= Received: by 10.213.22.146 with SMTP id n18mr429530ebb.55.1322656798408; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 04:39:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 58sm1059478eet.11.2011.11.30.04.39.56 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 30 Nov 2011 04:39:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:39:54 +0000 From: RW To: chat@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20111130123954.00546ddf@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:08:35 -0000 On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:24:23 -0700 Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:52 PM 11/29/2011, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > >Where's this? > > The hotel is in Laramie, Wyoming, but the guest is obviously from > elsewhere or would not be a hotel guest. Not necessarily, perhaps a neighbour devilled some kidneys. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 13:35:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1E01065670 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:35:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@geniegate.com) Received: from web.podro.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f7d0:300:1::100]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829088FC14 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:35:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web.podro.com (web.podro.com [65.18.192.166]) by web.podro.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pAUDb0lr096109 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:37:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@geniegate.com) Received: from ns1.podro.com (ns1.podro.com [65.18.192.210]) by web.podro.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id pAUDb0bI096105 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:37:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@geniegate.com) X-Authentication-Warning: web.podro.com: joe set sender to jamie@geniegate.com using -f Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:36:56 -0500 From: Jamie To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20111130133656.GH42014@mule.podro.com> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:35:40 -0000 Oh dear, On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 06:57:57PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > I just got a call from the owner of a hotel for which we provide > hotspot service. She says that a guest spotted the "Powered by > FreeBSD" logo at the bottom of the login page, and was offended; > the guest was convinced that either we or the hotel management > "worshipped the Devil" and refused to stay at the hotel unless the > logo was removed. LOL!!! I'm inclined to suggest we start a freebsd church, and collect donations to expell the daemon character from the computer and thus, save the souls of millions of web users who are attacked by this abomination... then use the money to pay for the development of a real, workable open source "flash" with which to create the new logo in. hehehehe Seriously, there are some neutered ones here: http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html You can't even tell they're horns, they look like some mysterious technology-thingy. > The owner could make no headway by explaining > that the besneakered mascot was a cartoon character and was a > daemon, not the Devil. And she feared upsetting the guest even more > if she said that large portions of the same software are inside > every Mac and iPad. The hotel stands to lose more than $1000 if the > guest, who had originally planned to stay for a long period, moves out. As a former fundie myself (brief stint, I assure you!), I do have some sympathy for your hotel guests. Decades ago, in my teens, before I was fortunate enough to snap out of it, such a situation would have produced an *extreme* amount of anxiety. I can only feel sorry for anyone who has lived their whole life that way. There aren't many ways to help them, everything you say or do is processed via an elaborate shell script that basically amounts to this: sed -e 's/outside help/trick of the devel/' Poor people, really. If they weren't so dangerous & annoying, we ought to have sympathy for them. It really was a high-stress lifesytle. I'm thankful to have snapped out of it early on, lots of others aren't so lucky. It really is like a trap. Jamie -- http://www.geniegate.com Custom web programming Perl * Java * UNIX User Management Solutions From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 15:57:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F791065673 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:57:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=3081c66fe=daved@tamu.edu) Received: from os-mail-3.tamu.edu (os-mail-3.tamu.edu [165.91.23.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29FA8FC19 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:57:32 +0000 (UTC) X-TAMU-Auth-ID: daved X-TAMU-SenderIP: 128.194.78.142 X-HAT: SG None, P $RELAY, L incoming_auth X-SRBS: None X-EXTLoop1: 128.194.78.142 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,597,1315198800"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="215121371" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1240E4BA-45CE-40BD-ADDB-07ACB64428B5"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: David Duchscher In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:28:03 -0600 Message-Id: <5FF0E1F7-4C51-4103-91B2-02222ED66144@tamu.edu> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> To: Brett Glass X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Tom Limoncelli , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:57:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1240E4BA-45CE-40BD-ADDB-07ACB64428B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Nov 30, 2011, at 4:16 AM, Tom Limoncelli wrote: > This is yet another reason why it was brilliant for Linux to have a > Penguin as their logo. Up until then all Unix imagery was > counter-productive to wide adoption: It was mostly wizards (a reminder > that Unix is difficult to use and only understood by few) or devils > (which is just plain confusing to the 99.99% of the planet that hasn't > taken Operating Systems 101 in college). >=20 > This is not a new thing. This story is probably older than a lot of > people on this mailing list: > http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/daemon.html >=20 > (and I heard Laura tell the story once in person) >=20 > Tom > P.S. Speaking of being old.... next week is the 25th Usenix LISA > conference. Who's coming to Boston? Will there be a BSD BoF? As one that has been stopped in a Lowes by a man in an electric = wheelchair asking if I worshiped the devil do to the FreeBSD shirt I was = wearing, pull it. The logo maps to many religious people as being = demonic. Saying that, the newer higher tech logo does not seem to bring = out the same association. If you do wish to evangelize FreeBSD in this case, I second the = suggestion of just using the image with the word FreeBSD in it. Maybe = somebody can work up some images with the newer logo on it and one or = two with just the text to give people a little more flexibility for = these types of situations. -- DaveD --Apple-Mail=_1240E4BA-45CE-40BD-ADDB-07ACB64428B5-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 21:13:57 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE621065672 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:13:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from w3.lemis.com (w3.lemis.com [208.86.224.149]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31D58FC13 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:13:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dereel.lemis.com (1032.x.rootbsd.net [208.86.224.149]) by w3.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EED03BAC1; Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:13:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dereel.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1F08EDADE7; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 08:13:54 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 08:13:54 +1100 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Brett Glass Message-ID: <20111130211354.GG5353@dereel.lemis.com> References: <201111300158.SAA09037@lariat.net> <20111130025230.GF5353@dereel.lemis.com> <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GBDnBH7+ZvLx8QD4" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201111300824.BAA10764@lariat.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5346-1370 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Superstitious users and the FreeBSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:13:57 -0000 --GBDnBH7+ZvLx8QD4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, 30 November 2011 at 1:24:23 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:52 PM 11/29/2011, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > >> Where's this? > > The hotel is in Laramie, Wyoming, but the guest is obviously from > elsewhere or would not be a hotel guest. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was wondering what software displays still used the BSD daemon. >> Take a look at the horrible series of geometric figures like in the >> banner at http://www.freebsd.org/. > > Alas, these still have horns. They don't look much like horns to me. Perhaps you should ask the guest what she would prefer to see. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua --GBDnBH7+ZvLx8QD4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk7WnJIACgkQIubykFB6QiMfaQCdFX9l3bKANySz0E8dOGuOuiHl mrUAoKoqs3tcc2ElWs7I3qBlJwWxlB8v =5j8c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GBDnBH7+ZvLx8QD4-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 3 11:35:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E6A106566C for ; Sat, 3 Dec 2011 11:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Received: from mail.beastielabs.net (beasties.demon.nl [82.161.3.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E32A8FC13 for ; Sat, 3 Dec 2011 11:34:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merom.hotsoft.nl (merom.hotsoft.nl [192.168.0.12]) by mail.beastielabs.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pB3AvtQL080096; Sat, 3 Dec 2011 11:57:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Message-ID: <4EDA00AC.4020501@beastielabs.net> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 11:57:48 +0100 From: Hans Ottevanger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Moura References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why aren't you using FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 11:35:00 -0000 On 11/08/11 17:48, Alex Moura wrote: > Why aren't you using FreeBSD? > http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/why-arent-you-using-freebsd-178119?page=0,1 This article was "discussed" after being quoted fully out-of-context on Slashdot shortly after it appeared. Still, I think the original article is of a quite reasonable quality and certainly deserves to be mentioned under "In the media" on www.freebsd.org. Who do I need to contact for this? Other valid questions that I often hear asked are of course "Why do you -still- use FreeBSD?" and "Why are you moving away from FreeBSD?". A discussion on the latter (and what to do about) it was conducted a bit out-of-place on arch@ starting last August: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch/2011-August/011412.html Up to now I have not seen a clear opinion or point-of-view stated by the FreeBSD project "as-a-project", but I still see FreeBSD being phased out by diverse entities at a fast pace, in application areas where it traditionally was very strong (web, mail, etc.). Kind regards, Hans