From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 12 20:37:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B43A5FE for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:37:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robin.bjorklin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD398FC13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:37:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so8338209oag.13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KA1dnCQR4FZ2vecrceKWnvDVvR0rZL0raZJ9B3SsGQM=; b=gSVWfZX8njyYsWw0NIoGeFi4iJHtWdtxRIt+d4YwIyhwPth5+ZbNidlU2sKQlK/+94 gYKqSe3pXmS+iRy4X7tRO9nrRUhVeApOmTjzMvOCwl3xYwnP7njsd7lOnYwKHbMZLwWY hs0YyITqBbukx4jcV6IKSM4XSf1HxjQhEPq6qottcqVbSF2LfRI3f8+EITvfQJJ/QDaj XDoVWEgespkK5PS8ncO8ScaUZk27chl2OSOSEggobLpKaEjIsgQesWPIhgTnJodTlzDG xJI1HzqN44MXh+SNcY8YfnJd8UflwsfxoasUPVBQHtRPjIOFNQImrmqXtjYzXGjQccvX IvMQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.38.103 with SMTP id f7mr16049711obk.90.1352752661180; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.171.231 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:37:41 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Unified BSD? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robin__Bj=F6rklin?= To: users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:37:42 -0000 Hi! First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive junior sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the bigger picture and the good of the cause. Now over to the reason for my post. As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is why the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux community have decided to split their resources into several different projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? Kind Regards, Robin Bjorklin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 12 21:38:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37AEAE78 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:38:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from JMayes@careered.com) Received: from mailout.careered.com (mailout.careered.com [216.49.208.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F428FC17 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from unknown (HELO pubemx101.careered.com) ([10.0.21.153]) by pubemx101.careered.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 15:37:05 -0600 DomainKey-Signature: s=mailout; d=careered.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:Received:Received:From:To: Date:Subject:Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:acceptlanguage: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=WyqDO8R/9+WUyao0gd1JHofiL4hbVXbyahKHJfMF32wobBAKQSx0J4v2 HiomcBOCFpwJNB/TL9McyjkPVPmQBCUqOu6ACeZV6nzKMgWaUiv6WU8dR afUJObR+0dcYM7q; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=careered.com; i=JMayes@careered.com; q=dns/txt; s=mailout; t=1352756225; x=1384292225; h=from:to:date:subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; z=From:=20Justin=20Mayes=20|To:=20=3D ?iso-8859-1?Q?Robin__Bj=3DF6rklin?=3D=20,=0D=0A=09"users@dragonflybsd.org"=20,=20"netbsd-users@netbsd.org"=0D=0A=09,=20"freebsd-chat@freebsd.org"=0D=0A =09,=20"misc@openbsd.org"=20|Date:=20Mon,=2012=20Nov=202012=2015:36:51 =20-0600|Subject:=20RE:=20Unified=20BSD?|Message-ID:=20<7 D4608B34C5B0D43A5D7C9F4E0BB9D75092A77A954@cecemx243.cec.r oot.careered.com>|References:=20 |In-Reply-To:=20|MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=VT3icUPZuhGanbdRKVxjngX5DAP86qHsFo6pifPzW6Q=; b=Y6n7kfWnKTDo0rJrEL0izdG6EYQtJHHwyVe+AMwrOf6Si6GdTVHyt6nM YoVCMKJYngqchCNhcmG9N9e2vA7l7SxekO8giJUf4e6y8EHqt34EymKEZ hJpqBP6N+om2k3m; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap4EAHtroVAKMhmM/2dsb2JhbABExGqCHgEBBYEFBAIBCA0EBAEBKAcCMBQJCAEBBAESCAYGwXqFWE+FboVpYQOIJTWGIYEhi22NRA Received: from unknown (HELO cecemx220.cec.root.careered.com) ([10.50.25.140]) by pubemx101.careered.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2012 15:37:02 -0600 Received: from cecemx243.cec.root.careered.com ([10.50.25.166]) by cecemx220.cec.root.careered.com ([10.50.25.140]) with mapi; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:36:54 -0600 From: Justin Mayes To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Robin__Bj=F6rklin?= , "users@dragonflybsd.org" , "netbsd-users@netbsd.org" , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" , "misc@openbsd.org" Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:36:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Unified BSD? Thread-Topic: Unified BSD? Thread-Index: Ac3BFyf5azcAbVV9T8enXVi2I+HyuQABb4dg Message-ID: <7D4608B34C5B0D43A5D7C9F4E0BB9D75092A77A954@cecemx243.cec.root.careered.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0393_01CDC0EB.88EC7DA0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:38:14 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0393_01CDC0EB.88EC7DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, your bat crap crazy :-) All of these variants inherit from the same unified BSD 4.4 base code as = far as I know. So years ago there were reasons that groups wanted to spilt = off and focus on specific goals. Some of these goals are mutually exclusive. These BSD variants are not really competing with each other or Linux for that matter.=20 Justin Mayes=A0 -----Original Message----- From: owner-misc@openbsd.org [mailto:owner-misc@openbsd.org] On Behalf = Of Robin Bj=F6rklin Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:38 PM To: users@dragonflybsd.org; netbsd-users@netbsd.org; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; misc@openbsd.org Subject: Unified BSD? Hi! First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive = junior sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the = bigger picture and the good of the cause. Now over to the reason for my post. As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is = why the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux community have decided to split their resources into several different projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four = largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and = create a Unified BSD? Kind Regards, Robin Bjorklin ------=_NextPart_000_0393_01CDC0EB.88EC7DA0-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 12 22:04:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D76166A for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:04:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7170B8FC13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:04:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TY276-0004Hi-O2 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:04:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:04:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1352757856733-5760380.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <7D4608B34C5B0D43A5D7C9F4E0BB9D75092A77A954@cecemx243.cec.root.careered.com> References: <7D4608B34C5B0D43A5D7C9F4E0BB9D75092A77A954@cecemx243.cec.root.careered.com> Subject: RE: Unified BSD? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:04:24 -0000 +1 Also, all projects being _open_ it's not like there isn't any useful cross-talk in sources, there is. And all projects can focus on their precise goals. Win-win. Of course, if some sub-goals are common, collaboration is encouraged (e.g. editor suite, chromium, I believe some wifi drivers... etc). -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Unified-BSD-tp5760356p5760380.html Sent from the freebsd-chat mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 12 22:08:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609BB72D for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:08:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weezelding@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC918FC12 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:08:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id l1so8811805vba.13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:08:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aPjHmLXyYYpIMbt9iODfgVeYCUgmDR03s28zhbFeqaI=; b=wOemTsDBbwnK9zX2OFghRhS8ejMtM0fT6sV5OFhyvEdojolJroaMLLJBMqMbwJO2Ce 0LeZrcoRp4Nl4AiErO4C29fkFU0Nbj60l4d+FfzJiBd6f8qp0RB4ZUjlLX3jwY4DbHHx u2+/FW9ZUM6fsRFPOMVIkteiaK99+7eM+FUKfoZUx5JlGriqMuGgpB67t3mMXD+64BYg OjfYPJqk56ihwRorHuZndWS1mS2vtOuKHL3c198OP35fZAMDqTEWu7gBvagyQ0axIZ7l i7osJ2gTvGErcUqkzD7cVX+xffFo7LZ5uNbpMN7hNZP+giUPC+QimPKxerzBA1HIoDFS S+BA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.205.200 with SMTP id fr8mr2407138vcb.34.1352758126372; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:08:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.199.164 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:08:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:08:46 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Ville Valkonen To: =?UTF-8?Q?Robin_Bj=C3=B6rklin?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:08:53 -0000 On 12 November 2012 22:37, Robin Bj=C3=B6rklin = wrote: > As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these > days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is wh= y > the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux > community have decided to split their resources into several different > projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more > competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? Different BSDs have different interests. Also, "competitive shape" is ambiguous (competitive in speed?, portability?, security?, market share?). > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four large= st > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and > create a Unified BSD? Doesn't that apply for Linux too? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 12 22:32:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8154E0A for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:32:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nomadlogic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766728FC14 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id l1so8839887vba.13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:32:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tIKKdnmQUNAlYshrqJZj9oJEeLixJk1QCycpEHNteL8=; b=AOalYM4+m5yVb+aJNR9NTmUwogex8kpsHCv4kDpdqJzbr3XKsNvZ59XPbgG6s5VP9B PVZAA+HUMOn1NROAFi68LB7yqlK5JQWVsTrneZsDDug8hUczeWyj9Nq6DH/keQxeX1FG N3UF51it+MUqWOlZPivcpR31VtoWbRgMMQZmp0nDolxcU410+DIr85SRrDPhF9A/rQyU ugImpoQSsvzpNRXQ6FoNpFErHulbHl+pEf8Aosnh/6rnHu2FMyvcmVvNesKtSbVX2QyN DNJLwAW3cqeeFEJeXJ4UReWAXMM+n4eKxvmR8V6yRsNPTxpHKPEpnnFxH6ba6juBLE5Q X/fg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.89.146 with SMTP id bo18mr23784432vdb.33.1352759575686; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.221.230 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:32:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:32:55 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: pete wright To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robin_Bj=F6rklin?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:32:57 -0000 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Robin Bj=F6rklin wrote: > > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four large= st > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and > create a Unified BSD? > you are not crazy for thinking this, and fortunately there is nothing prohibiting you from doing so (or a collective group of people, or company etc...). One thing you will see in the BSD Unix systems is there is quite a bit of cross pollination between projects. The largest example current example of this from my perspective is support for OpenBSD's "pf" packet filter in FreeBSD. This is a packet filter built to suit the OpenBSD developers goals, but it did not restrict FreeBSD from supporting this packet filter and hopefully both projects benefit from this collaboration (wider code exposure of the pf code, and wider choice of packet filters for FreeBSD users). My opinion is that with the current state of the BSD's this is one of its stronger suits - we have multiple projects right now building entire operating systems to suit each of the projects stated goals and developer wishes. this would be opposed to gnu/linux where you are cobbling together many disparate sources to build your distribution (some of which will have goals that may not line up with your goals). with this diversity we still cross pollinate ideas and methods, but are still allowed to spend our limited resources focusing on our projects core goals. -pete --=20 pete wright www.nycbug.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 12 22:49:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7CF479 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:49:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wicked@baot.se) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE068FC08 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:49:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f182.google.com with SMTP id x43so3803816wey.13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:user-agent:x-gm-message-state; bh=OMtxcVW84cIa649XYkpPfxyrtowcRBXED8+QZPv1dsQ=; b=VQynMlo8QxFeXfgwMh1YgBXalxKIUJj+ltpHUGLoc0ShUhDn4yayLvuUY8lx1Inyl8 geXDJWrJ1chXTa5hX97IOZlFQV6Cp+ThjefZZZmnN9LP9c10wG2oPQ7QZLwZBPz9lEXD 8DHfiB+VfLjvk+GaGfCCtIAFE45TFc0qEErp8ZTQKASp6YbdcCqsXyd04F9mh70NlNs7 etW4MoxDDlWDp63ypcz73DgIuI+oMfPZkODwS/oC3PXPNUlIsQO1yG2EsxkivlX0mZHa ku5M91WBvhpOpt5F7Wppegu7c5pUKLrll5D+bl0NA+X6NLQhB9lnP5Fu2Ddz/z3sXySV NUPQ== Received: by 10.216.204.139 with SMTP id h11mr8426634weo.128.1352760571165; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from baot.se (baot.se. [82.192.84.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c7sm9693820wix.6.2012.11.12.14.49.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by baot.se (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:49:21 +0000 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:49:21 +0000 From: "Anders N." To: abletony84@gmail.com, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121112224921.GA48236@baot.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmvq+8Yp9bA/bOa9AmRtpWbw8k5FEvJfhxWoV198/DuOa0EEfZDwmsNu0FMJeJRgmjb4ugK X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:49:33 -0000 If there's to be any hope of a rational discussion, we need to remember to CC each list as the OP did. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012, Tony wrote: >Ain't that what OpenBSD is though - the best from all worlds? Especially with comments like these.. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 00:03:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B89AACE for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:03:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ericfurman@fastmail.net) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A028FC0C for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:03:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.43]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FCE20492; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.213]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:03:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.net; h= message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:references; s=mesmtp; bh= IE1FfSlh6JeUkJHyfB7cIdm6+6Y=; b=DddvU5w42Ts9zHanvAqUoLESZavWK+eW q7yAiVLXG0QRqMCChkeXzTWHo6Xn5UzBiWKEiH47vxVHNYIUS4aBb529D870ICf4 r6R/eB++H/N6dqc7kSWbjkaKtNksCfS9XHlUpKS0ncW2VPwmrRphijkjVzZ7HqUu 5RGI/NJfhlg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to :references; s=smtpout; bh=IE1FfSlh6JeUkJHyfB7cIdm6+6Y=; b=K4WMm ZMPrr6/I/ftPTHsArQJd5GbstrCOJ2vLSJt2pSbNDp3ESqzDI/rf3jd5YTdjQkL4 8oeo+y9eCDwx+kO5vhqYd0rK6qUlPicVksY2D7z4GB41Adpm1NnBcbiSyroVvcEA azCFIXSN5nN5KXxWz4+pOOOdWNclD6ost1rgsk= Received: by web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id B54423A0E8A; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:03:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1352765021.28519.140661152836537.1945ABBA@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: vOz5ft3bT5ld3vZpBgCqqys9KNe4/UKgVxUV2wyOca0p 1352765021 From: Eric Furman To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robin=20Bj=F6rklin?= , OpenBSD Misc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:03:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: Cc: users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:03:43 -0000 This is the funniest thing I've seen all day. :) On Mon, Nov 12, 2012, at 03:37 PM, Robin Bj=F6rklin wrote: > Hi! >=20 > First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive > junior > sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the > bigger > picture and the good of the cause. >=20 > Now over to the reason for my post. >=20 > As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these > days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is > why > the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux > community have decided to split their resources into several different > projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more > competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? >=20 > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four > largest > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and > create a Unified BSD? >=20 > Kind Regards, > Robin Bjorklin >=20 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 00:08:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21023DAA for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:08:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.62.230.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5198FC0C for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:08:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Toshi.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2] (may be forged)) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29585; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:08:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <201211130008.RAA29585@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:08:25 -0700 To: Robin Björklin , users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Unified BSD? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:08:45 -0000 You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the Linux world is unified. It isn't. The big difference between Linux and the BSDs is that it alienates itself from the BSDs and many other projects by using a viral, business-hostile license. The BSDs can draw on one another's work because there are no licensing barriers between them. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 01:15:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAF6C95 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from w3.lemis.com (w3.lemis.com [208.86.224.149]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B877D8FC08 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:15:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eureka.lemis.com (1032.x.rootbsd.net [208.86.224.149]) by w3.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40F63B734; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:14:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eureka.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 42F78F78BA; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:14:50 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:14:50 +1100 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Robin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklin?= Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121113011450.GB85693@eureka.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="R3G7APHDIzY6R/pk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: The NetBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5346-1370 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.NetBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:15:03 -0000 --R3G7APHDIzY6R/pk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Monday, 12 November 2012 at 21:37:41 +0100, Robin Bj=F6rklin wrote: > First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive > junior sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and > see the bigger picture and the good of the cause. It shows :-) > As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux > these days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm > wondering is why the BSD community which from what I can gather > isn't as big as the Linux community have decided to split their > resources into several different projects/forks/distributions. To me > it seems *BSD would be in a more competitive shape if all developers > would get in under one roof? There's 20 years of history to explain that. Where should I begin? Should I begin? - The initial split was between Bill Jolitz and the rest of the world. This was partially personality driven, partially goal driven. Bill soon faded out, leaving just the NetBSD project. - Next came the split between NetBSD and FreeBSD. That was mainly goal driven, but there was also a fair amount of personality involved. - Then came the Unix wars, where AT&T sued BSDI (a commercial variant that no longer exists) over perceived copyright infringement. The free BSDs weren't really directly involved, but the suit would have been just as relevant, and people were worried. This was the time that Linux was in the ascendancy. Users had the choice of a free GPL system or one which might land them in trouble. Most chose the safe option. - Then OpenBSD split from NetBSD. Mainly personality driven AFAICT. This doesn't imply any criticism of the founder of the new project. Round about this time I wrote a paper on the subject, which I presented in various conferences. You can find numerous versions at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Papers/, including "Why BSD is better than Linux", presented at the Linux.conf.au in Brisbane. - Then DragonflyBSD split from FreeBSD. Mainly personality driven AFAICT. Again, this doesn't imply any criticism of the founder of the new project. And that's where we are. We have 4 different BSD kernels which regularly borrow from each other. Some projects, such as PCBSD, take these kernels and package them differently. Looking across the fence, I see that there is no distribution of Linux with a completely standard kernel (I think), and lots of different distributions with significantly different interfaces. On the whole, I'd say that BSD is more uniform than Linux. > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four > largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of > each and create a Unified BSD? Maybe not, but there are many reasons it won't happen. One is the structure of the individual projects, and another is that the current system works well. If you only have one kernel, you don't have people implementing different solutions for a problem, so you don't find out which is better. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua --R3G7APHDIzY6R/pk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAlChnwkACgkQIubykFB6QiObiQCgqhTeR5X03o+JkCHv4cYbVMTW LFUAn0KnQ1nNSxafRGqq4kSYeOsPcoqw =HcBx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --R3G7APHDIzY6R/pk-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 01:41:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79A913B for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:41:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jb@caustic.org) Received: from mail-ia0-f182.google.com (mail-ia0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673408FC0C for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:41:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ia0-f182.google.com with SMTP id x2so377321iad.13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:41:18 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=avavFoRywq1A1Dhwb75gE1uTEoM9phFOQwmnzzwDVdI=; b=AogPzKjeG9YKLkiBRJ/6UXS8bXtmbYoY6QT08MxVW2kPKMgb9rFPlNufOIEEzZsp1I rgiqkBnmxEYdIYNKvm1hW2R/TR/MJsuwTIAMLbcRzsBNrLNYz5KrE+arYoJ1vXeb56Ph uczdevml2JnWxpcKvG8GS4AGXEB8E4mhmHayHOcYm4OVEeyOA+dT9ol7HcD5aKA0/qeN Ocim6XBNOmPUW82haF8YtI15JwK2SP+KlYAwBWxibMc60cUZm37yJpWTWzi0IOcrhSlV tdGX2x2UWlyLAoJL9vpLAz3jBvdgNCIFfTMW5QyzplXouqkfyOtqwX36JuRDWt/xGypP 2UJQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.104.200 with SMTP id dn8mr20001767icc.43.1352770878853; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.82.38 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:41:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121113011450.GB85693@eureka.lemis.com> References: <20121113011450.GB85693@eureka.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:41:18 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Johan Beisser To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkEdsuVmbGQAVRzmi2RKefAeACCBwUQx2Q2dhWyDcFWUZjkYt0sMOXiNYTlBpCHnfXI1bss Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robin_Bj=F6rklin?= , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:41:25 -0000 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > - Then DragonflyBSD split from FreeBSD. Mainly personality driven > AFAICT. Again, this doesn't imply any criticism of the founder of > the new project. There were some very valid technical reasons at the time as well, IMHO. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 02:26:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B5EA5A for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:26:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283578FC16 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n9so8660086oag.13 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:26:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=h3gIx5i8eFNPUPe/bN3bMB/8yb1YklNAe/xaMCe6P7Q=; b=OtQRuTiCeGocNwFcCnFogc+miRzaRefu006ea7n0cvMX5kQDaPN0yEPXPRZBM8hkVX FTYefOgirVXbd9tMI6zUU4c1uAg8svcn/Nfi3MtIxpR5ygYOSBq8p1YFUjNRzg9BE6qs W1BQ+ADfKi/d4l8VvWnSSpIf4j8LgpMumQho/qxDyW3wOrQzry4mn1WxjB8VUZ68qygc 1xNxbbGLQUDZ203p9UWgub3eoSOqI/s1YH/CbYK03BAX7OX+5MPbMJAM0EZlbkOkYPLH 4YjwTKzZZQSjLFSakMKiS19cEyw33JhjKrc1ZIo/fQBEhmwmkTbF3NGh0DLpa+Mayb3K 3nbA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.18.139 with SMTP id w11mr16683880obd.8.1352773611353; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:26:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.92.41 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:26:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7D4608B34C5B0D43A5D7C9F4E0BB9D75092A77A954@cecemx243.cec.root.careered.com> References: <7D4608B34C5B0D43A5D7C9F4E0BB9D75092A77A954@cecemx243.cec.root.careered.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:26:51 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: Justin Mayes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robin_Bj=F6rklin?= , "misc@openbsd.org" , "users@dragonflybsd.org" , "netbsd-users@netbsd.org" , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:26:52 -0000 The reason was actually intellectual property based between AT&T and the proprietary BSD/386 if your talking BSD4.4. That was the core reason for why FreeBSD and NetBSD started. So really it isn't that crazy, more highly unlikely that your going to get the core developers of each project to abandon years of work to start again on a unified BSD. It is a cool thought, one i have thought about. Which is why i reckon your far more likely to get support for a new BSD system that takes the foundation of one of the existing BSD's and create a project that aims for compatibility between the major BSD players. At least then its not like restarting. On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Justin Mayes wrote: > Yes, your bat crap crazy :-) > > All of these variants inherit from the same unified BSD 4.4 base code as > far > as I know. So years ago there were reasons that groups wanted to spilt o= ff > and focus on specific goals. Some of these goals are mutually exclusive. > These BSD variants are not really competing with each other or Linux for > that matter. > > > Justin Mayes > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-misc@openbsd.org [mailto:owner-misc@openbsd.org] On Behalf Of > Robin Bj=F6rklin > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:38 PM > To: users@dragonflybsd.org; netbsd-users@netbsd.org; > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; misc@openbsd.org > Subject: Unified BSD? > > Hi! > > First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive juni= or > sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the bigg= er > picture and the good of the cause. > > Now over to the reason for my post. > > As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these > days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is wh= y > the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux > community have decided to split their resources into several different > projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more > competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four large= st > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and > create > a Unified BSD? > > Kind Regards, > Robin Bjorklin > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 04:26:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE76285B; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:26:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8D88FC0C; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FBED7C.dip.t-dialin.net [217.251.237.124]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id qAD4QTbr002094; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:26:29 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qAD4QHar031352; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:26:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qAD4Pks6026374; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:25:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201211130425.qAD4Pks6026374@fire.js.berklix.net> To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:14:50 +1100." <20121113011450.GB85693@eureka.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:25:46 +0100 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Robin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklin?= , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@NetBSD.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:26:39 -0000 > - Then came the Unix wars, where AT&T sued BSDI (a commercial variant > that no longer exists) over perceived copyright infringement. The > free BSDs weren't really directly involved, but the suit would have > been just as relevant, and people were worried. > > This was the time that Linux was in the ascendancy. Users had the > choice of a free GPL system or one which might land them in > trouble. Most chose the safe option. I know the view from Germany as to why Linux was taken up so readily, most people read about it later, & repeat relayed wisdom, but I was here & know: (& BTW though I'm British but in Germany, Germany is far more signifcant in this regard than eg UK of GB, eg Linux mag. has 3 times the circulation in Germany as UK, & whenever I'm in UK I never see Linux mags in book shops etc (& of course no BSD) just MS, whereas here in Munich there's some choice of Linux mags, even in food supermarket (Tengelmann) I recall. Most newbies were clueless or didnt give a toss about FSF v BSD licensing then (or now), or some firm called AT&T across the pond breathing hot air. (Only us BSD people cared, not many of us). Old Unix hands like me were earning good money fully employed doing consultancy, (plenty of work then). Although I thought I maybe should help spread BSD, & considered knocking out batches of 30/40+ floppies per mail order, it was Very unattractive, labour intensive formatting, dd'ing, checking for media errors, at a very low pay rate compare with mich higher paid & more interesting consultancy. Plus also if one did that under German tax law (I checked with my Steuer Berater = accountant I recall) it would be subject to Gewerbe Steuer, & not just for the trivial amount earned on floppies shipped, but could imperil imposing the extra tax on the Whole of consultancy income, Very Expensive mistake to risk that. So I didn't & others didnt; most other consultant friends here were also happy earning at commercial rates, & didn't want to touch floppy reproduction. BUT ... meanwhile there was a whole new load of students on low or no income, & no tax issues to worry about, & young student mode enthusiasm & time to evangalise their new free software ... Linux ... so one saw adverts for stack of floppies in eg CT Magazine (http://www.heise.de/ct/ & others. & then CDs came on the scene, even easier for the students to push out & again I wondered whether I should push out some BSD CDs, & again colleagues were too busy to reduce their consultancy income by doing grunt disk jockey work producing & mailing CDROMs at cheap prices. & Again I was scared of German Gewerbe Steuer ... So I decided to just do software bundling (safe consultancy work) & let a commercial firm do manufacture, bulk distrib, German language correspondence, & German gewerbe Steuer issues etc - Ughh) So I mastered a combination Live + Install FreeBSD CDROM years before freebsd.org did theirs, & approached german Linux Mag & Heise (I think) & (English language, German based) BSD Mag (whatever, the one from Rosa Riebl) to see if anyone would bundle it stuck to front page of magazines (to really shift a lot & have BSD make a big impact in the OS scene. I didnt get anywhere with that, but I got further with Dr Dobbs USA mag, & negotiations were going OK, then they decided it would be too expensive to glue a CD on each cover, & they just wanted to feature my CD in their library of CDs for sale ... at which point I lost interest cos: - It would fail to impact the market if not sent in bulk 1 per mag. (I'd have accepted very low payment for that, as it would have helped push BSD significantly) - If not on Mag. cover & just in library for sale per individual order, I was scared of low sales, & not worth the bother to polish the master & maintain it maybe through new releases for low income. Actually, I still see a market opportunity for someone: For BSD (or Linux) shipped on memory sticks. But I wont touch that, especially not in Germany with this tax system, & having to deal with thousands of customers at low profit per unit, plus a lot of german correspondence (German grammar not nice IMO) ... but its still a market BSD or Linux students could exploit (if not already ... I havent read CT mag & ads. lately to know if it's being done). Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with "> ". Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 09:08:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24978E45 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:08:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gyorpb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18738FC12 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:08:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f182.google.com with SMTP id x43so3993404wey.13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:08:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=0UbWX+eBN82Nf1X8anDOR9leUHzZ9ZhDy8NF0ZwAjpo=; b=bXDYzJt19TV1DlQP3ljyXD9+PGrsaReuWA0wc4oWdo0inLe0zRErCSZVclGiwd2Uk2 N5M3RjT7UQbxmU5wkwteGa3s0Y//8BhXQvgnTIdH3Y2dex9psh6SoiEQN79rIeC9BR4Y aSLH0zEZzlGDjk9CrRQHxAG8v7SCSlTkp5DEHI8FG5x78K4Csz7KkCzRdUAi8UNB22YU n6ZVfByP3ooNw+SKURhM5w6Kq9/smxbB8xONtPNvy+EiuLaNQ+V6X0l7lE91l634XoWT 329yZJlFL92wrCt96SwMvM4//wa1E+f4UPfXtg3c49xFuLts5D/coh8bs51CQguoAWel ZJVw== Received: by 10.180.99.36 with SMTP id en4mr18488621wib.20.1352797691526; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbookair.lan (ip565b30ee.direct-adsl.nl. [86.91.48.238]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ey2sm15511085wib.9.2012.11.13.01.08.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:08:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Joost van de Griek In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:08:08 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: netbsd-users@netbsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:08:14 -0000 On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Bj=F6rklin = wrote: > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four = largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of = each and create a Unified BSD? You'd end up creating a fifth. .tsooJ --=20 The first testicular guard, the cup, was used in hockey in 1874; the = first helmet was used in 1974. That means it only took 100 years for men = to realize that their brain is also important. --=20 Joost van de Griek From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 10:58:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D5E6A9 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:58:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de) Received: from postfix.iai.uni-bonn.de (postfix.iai.uni-bonn.de [131.220.8.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63D08FC14 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:58:13 +0000 (UTC) X-IAI-Env-From: : [131.220.4.211] Received: from theory.cs.uni-bonn.de (theory.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.211]) by postfix.iai.uni-bonn.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708115C402; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:45:55 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de) (envelope-to VARIOUS) (5) (internal use: ta=0, tu=1, te=0, am=-, au=-) Received: from jaguar-alpha.cs.uni-bonn.de (jaguar-alpha.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.131]) by theory.cs.uni-bonn.de (Postfix) with SMTP id 06F981BC0C; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:45:54 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 735 invoked by uid 1501); Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:45:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:45:11 +0100 From: Ignatios Souvatzis To: Joost van de Griek Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:58:14 -0000 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: > > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? > > > You'd end up creating a fifth. At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible userland, an eighth. -is From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 11:38:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6DCF4F for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:38:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joar.jegleim@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488558FC15 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:38:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so1639728obc.13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:38:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b7rEH8sQPGDxUL62kWwf+deO+mpeSchJde0pMqjyYhA=; b=uPKRslDu3p6Pk2z6rvBxXdyw767P+WbRuvlLtOZo7KUguqI7tBYWetDfcdFs+bKh7z wmPrLN0f7E9ra5yYXK6b22ZCdzv90AlqSe+U0HC0gt12aXrcoxxuVX4uKXTgFl9wqMtg gnLntXDZZ+Dk5e3+kKP3jUCIdCSiFGb71JMPr6hej8h7K+pVS4A3CSp0eNRjUYTaLz5z Hi0/RGJKvphnRRAjSWWHNK1egkRgsFkIT7iAhnbGVDk57/YWdKqjj0N0AcDz4V9V34v6 74fkbJ0iqEKhH/9zPXyoo9mEP69mz3gbPiepUHvuM9ZZQzQiLWUnB0rR5SmPt2GnewS3 YokQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.22.9 with SMTP id z9mr3883457oee.134.1352806684887; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.199.10 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:38:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:38:04 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Joar Jegleim To: =?UTF-8?Q?Robin_Bj=C3=B6rklin?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:38:07 -0000 I just can't resist the urge to point to this comic strip, which an other FreeBSD users posted regarding : "hey let's create a FreeBSD desktop, like Ubuntu did with Unity" http://xkcd.com/927/ --=20 ---------------------- Joar Jegleim Homepage: http://cosmicb.no Linkedin: http://no.linkedin.com/in/joarjegleim fb: http://www.facebook.com/joar.jegleim AKA: CosmicB @Freenode ---------------------- On 12 November 2012 21:37, Robin Bj=C3=B6rklin = wrote: > Hi! > > First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive juni= or > sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the bigg= er > picture and the good of the cause. > > Now over to the reason for my post. > > As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these > days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is wh= y > the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux > community have decided to split their resources into several different > projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more > competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four large= st > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and > create a Unified BSD? > > Kind Regards, > Robin Bjorklin > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 12:04:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7C4825 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:04:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF238FC17 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:04:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09C466A6000; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:04:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qADC4SlA011387; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:04:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id qADC4R5v010253; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:04:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from lars) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:04:27 +0100 From: Lars Engels To: Ignatios Souvatzis Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sfyO1m2EN8ZOtJL6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.3-RELEASE-p4 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:04:30 -0000 --sfyO1m2EN8ZOtJL6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:45:11AM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: > > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Bj=C3=B6rklin wrote: > >=20 > > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four l= argest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each an= d create a Unified BSD? > >=20 > >=20 > > You'd end up creating a fifth. >=20 > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible > userland, an eighth.=20 >=20 MirBSD / MirOS is dead: http://www.freshbsd.org/search?project=3Dmirbsd Last commit: 2011-08-29 23:00:00 --sfyO1m2EN8ZOtJL6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAlCiN0sACgkQKc512sD3afg2/gCguBahJ3qSujf8JBimD/9r2CTA WEwAoLaT0RdHN4v1mIbES33KAcU3gJVq =34D2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sfyO1m2EN8ZOtJL6-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 12:28:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232EFD19 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:28:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de) Received: from postfix.iai.uni-bonn.de (postfix.iai.uni-bonn.de [131.220.8.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0DC8FC15 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:28:30 +0000 (UTC) X-IAI-Env-From: : [131.220.4.211] Received: from theory.cs.uni-bonn.de (theory.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.211]) by postfix.iai.uni-bonn.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5719E5C402; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:28:29 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de) (envelope-to VARIOUS) (6) (internal use: ta=0, tu=1, te=0, am=-, au=-) Received: from jaguar-alpha.cs.uni-bonn.de (jaguar-alpha.cs.uni-bonn.de [131.220.4.131]) by theory.cs.uni-bonn.de (Postfix) with SMTP id DF0C91BC3F; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:28:28 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 11407 invoked by uid 1501); Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:27:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:27:44 +0100 From: Ignatios Souvatzis To: Lars Engels Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121113122744.GB2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:28:31 -0000 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 01:04:27PM +0100, Lars Engels wrote: > MirBSD / MirOS is dead: > > http://www.freshbsd.org/search?project=mirbsd > > Last commit: 2011-08-29 23:00:00 I'm no Mir* co-worker, so take this with a grain of salt. But on general principles: a) I question the date itself - that's the last commit to whatever freshbsd.org watches, not necessarily the last thing the developers did. (In fact, I've heard from Thorsten at FrosCon that he does definitely not consider his project abandoned.) b) Besides - I question the notion of "unchanging" == "dead". In fact, as somebody who *uses* software, and who administeres computers for others who want to *use* the software, I consider changing software - e.g. the fortnightly changes of Firefox-Current's user interface - a nuisance. (That's why Mozilla has their "extended support release", currently 10.0.9.) People want to use software for some work, not spend half of their time rewriting configuration files or relearn key bidings or menu entry positions. (Now, nobody being there who looks at bug reports etc... thats something different. But you only see changes through this activity if there really *are* bugs.) -is From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 12:30:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9EEDD3 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:30:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88688FC16 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:30:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TYFd7-0003yQ-7I for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:30:13 -0800 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 04:30:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1352809813219-5760566.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> Subject: Re: Unified BSD? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:30:15 -0000 mksh is certainly not, and I use it daily on FreeBSD and really like it. The same I could say about openntpd from OpenBSD. Isn't it like it should be then? -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Unified-BSD-tp5760356p5760566.html Sent from the freebsd-chat mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 12:45:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0248336D for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:45:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bqt@update.uu.se) Received: from GW.SoftJAR.SE (static-213-115-73-154.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se [213.115.73.154]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DD38FC0C for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:45:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-172-28-211-120.zrh.corp.google.com (unknown [74.125.57.33]) by GW.SoftJAR.SE (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F8EA62784; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50A23E70.8010509@update.uu.se> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:56 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ignatios Souvatzis Subject: Re: Unified BSD? References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> In-Reply-To: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:45:37 -0000 On 2012-11-13 11:45, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: >> >>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? >> >> >> You'd end up creating a fifth. > > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible > userland, an eighth. And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases? (And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would have been called 1BSD as well...) Johnny From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 13:18:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE6D432 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:18:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB8D8FC08 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:18:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so1746213obc.13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:18:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=MSuRuWri/7DHpB7t4IXhy30pqgkeQB+w9fgPhXYQOu0=; b=01RzmZuyv+8YdKpB3aO+s3+VZ9eWhAzjUL5TMqvRm2O1lwT3icr2NWIwEk+Z4uk7xm AM5cTgmoTh7V35KAGjC1tAtM+I3BejphFitz1TUs+B/6lbaygrWac7TvS74pcodcb1kI 1zUHDUVfndzB/+9ngtHQ7nmpuIFgEJh6PsOEHe7MnlsTd1Bxia4TGOCeeEQRaOqH6zPf rZTbp1d30KNOLulZtL3twp6bapNuIjqtZh8p+H9OyY4xh9GX4C22KQcn5KheS+1Bv4SH uTQ4rg1gzBLsa6V2EYhFu0aPSaaHdGMpbXreo1nDpNpBX/uWNogeUb2ftpf6IeT4ECZv sMTQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.202.39 with SMTP id kf7mr18038101obc.37.1352812724487; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.92.41 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 05:18:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:18:44 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: Ignatios Souvatzis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:18:45 -0000 No offense Ignatios Souvatzis but your reference to Minix being a 7th BSD distro is like saying FreeBSD (or any of the other major BSDs) is another Linux because of its inter-compatibility for certain user-land components and various shared code. Minix has a minimal amount of NetBSD code and most of it being userland tools and package management. The actual core of Minix is totally different to NetBSD; MINIX is a microkernel and NetBSD is a monolithic kernel being a major difference. Mac OS X i can understand but again the core of OSX is based of Mach 3, FreeBSD and OPENSTEP, with a lot of modified code (more like BSD's 2nd or 3rd cousin). Although with that i suppose it depends on how you are defining what classifies as a BSD distribution. If your going of whether they have used any source from BSD then your going to be hard-pressed to classify one that isn't BSD. However, i was assuming you were going of the core of the system (i.e. how much source if any is used in kernel space). Which brings be back to what i was talking about in an earlier post. If you want to make a "unified BSD", it would be easier to create a new BSD which at the core (i.e. memory management, IPC, I/O, etc...) is based of per-say NetBSD, i only chose NetBSD because it has what i believe is cleaner code than the others, and is structured in a way that would make it "easier" to modify and move components. Sure it wouldn't be true to the roots of an actual unified BSD that is based of 4.4BSD lite and has a mesh core of OpenBSD, FreeBSD & NetBSD, but my point isn't about 4.4BSD lite or creating a "true unified BSD" down to the core (where all BSD developers work on one project). My point is about the possibility of creating a new BSD project (with separate developers) that aims for 100% compatibility with at least FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and maybe DragonflyBSD. Your suggestion i would think is possible, but only by being realistic about it. Using an already stable kernel and then modifying it where necessary to make it compatible. lol, that's just my 2-cents about it. Hell the idea is more possible with the BSDs than it is with Linux. I wouldn't even consider trying to create a unified Linux. Linux is such a jumbled mess, that i wouldn't want to go anywhere near a project trying to un-jumble it with a 10ft pole, as it would take about as long to un-jumble it as it would to finish the same idea on BSD. I like Linux but if your talking about a project/s being unified, BSD is leaps and bounds ahead of Linux. So while Linux is doing better in terms of popularity, BSD has a far greater potential for more than Linux, just because each project has made such a strong base foundation and is so well organized. :D On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: > > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Bj=F6rklin > wrote: > > > > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four > largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each > and create a Unified BSD? > > > > > > You'd end up creating a fifth. > > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible > userland, an eighth. > > -is > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 16:45:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD9B5B8 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:45:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from illoai@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9F68FC12 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:45:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k10so14252639iea.13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:45:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zlt3xArozr4X2Q/cqSN+9OF4+99fEfnsArkPDjoD6EE=; b=BZgA4J6vGdzhx3n+t5CIud1IyIwVLMkinV/MuuY7U0tDF/6otuZplsFhDvkrgDCGHg Xz9uLOIC0OUbZVYxBHj2GIRkgP76PsXu5cNRka91tNTBmjvLnkmkwMO/dIQYW3gJmViz 0PCfmrFQe5yFXtyZfqPORw9nOJhN9iguaE2QAQdDHqF/uQreE9ZkyKQnHcJAolI7JjAv xnY2DKkJfVCzkSw85aKNCM1sdNXLtkeiW08N9nkWI+MPILsQ+DTOfT3QVQkH9LOu0TEu /KVMkRHfJzmfJGvgHE4u9D6ciJXGv4HP4mmP3GQ3oLF3DBZGdqGznGuzxOdDiKE2UscM 8FYQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.108.145 with SMTP id hk17mr1391448igb.51.1352825121252; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.30.11 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:45:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:45:20 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: "illoai@gmail.com" To: Lars Engels Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Ignatios Souvatzis , users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:45:22 -0000 On 13 November 2012 07:04, Lars Engels wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:45:11AM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >> > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Bj=F6rklin wrote: >> > >> > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four = largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each a= nd create a Unified BSD? >> > >> > >> > You'd end up creating a fifth. >> >> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. >> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, >> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible >> userland, an eighth. >> > > MirBSD / MirOS is dead: > > http://www.freshbsd.org/search?project=3Dmirbsd > > Last commit: 2011-08-29 23:00:00 Latest looks like 20120911 via http://www.mirbsd.org/MirOS/current/ Also, mksh (I use this on gentoo) & jupp (a fork of joe: I still use the ol jstar for word processing) are both regularly worked upon. In any case (getting back to the Original Troll), the various BSD projects regularly borrow code from each other, so I hardly see the point. --=20 -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 16:51:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C84A84 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:51:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jb@caustic.org) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365BD8FC08 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:51:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k10so14265374iea.13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:51:50 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=SPfjkRgg8vXDWsz3JHBJUpc2W1PeEYn1XckgjtSxNos=; b=J5CLbOcfyzDKXrf1n/v68vt3ziUGC9BUenR4RWhSd4diR4IZ0vtcFdPiv9aP5aW/qH D9KEWeXvxVkC8rQ8CACNGuREiiGzvOfJwAGHJixoATidVzCnp/j9NUuGypJHMzmY5vuB eO03kzDknjw3p+tJurMv84yUkdqwhPS1/b9GtGBX2DX2C+qOokm23rIDv9oPHTkHhbpT 6kH2ALFG8LHNI6IBX97mByMtgvhBZITXwm0Nurddx9XbKLfFBV+mzvrNf0Id8znmp1UR b+Ge1FN7V2Ir4yc18JqoulzSRExy0k9lDXgHdV4nYL6fovK6+O29YxrpcPQdocmSSlk2 QfMA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.33.138 with SMTP id r10mr11748350igi.6.1352825510659; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.82.38 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:51:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:51:50 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Johan Beisser To: Ignatios Souvatzis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlG10Xj1OT0c7LFUeLkC7jXOHG8GAnfrQKvDkS29BKZ2UqUnEGKroZL/ETl1cKZKYn9BHys Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:51:51 -0000 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible > userland, an eighth. OS X has benefitted greatly from FreeBSD, Apple hiring former FreeBSD core team members. And indirectly from OpenBSD as well, with modern versions of OS X, 10.7+, have pf. Cross pollination is a huge benefit to the BSD community. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 17:24:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF4D956 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:24:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim.larson@proxibid.com) Received: from asp.reflexion.net (outbound-241.asp.reflexion.net [69.84.129.241]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8B38FC13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:24:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 15462 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2012 17:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-cs-03.app.dca.reflexion.local) (10.81.19.3) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with SMTP; 13 Nov 2012 17:17:48 -0000 Received: by mail-cs-03.app.dca.reflexion.local (Reflexion email security v7.00.0) with SMTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:17:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16680 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2012 17:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO office.proxibid.com) (66.37.249.98) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with (AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 13 Nov 2012 17:17:48 -0000 Received: from Pollux.proxibid.com ([fe80::3040:a66c:93de:69f5]) by Hubp02.proxibid.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:17:46 -0600 From: Tim Larson To: "users@dragonflybsd.org" , "netbsd-users@netbsd.org" , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" , "misc@openbsd.org" Subject: RE: Unified BSD? Thread-Topic: Unified BSD? Thread-Index: AQHNwRWPOcdGas9E2U+nA7wjnz6dAJfoAfhA Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:17:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.19.83] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Robin__Bj=F6rklin?= X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:24:30 -0000 I know the basic history of all the BSDs and the reasons for divergence, bu= t I've always tended to think of them as different focus areas of a single = project. The best ideas tend to get shared around, where applicable, but ea= ch retains its unique focus and niche within the greater whole. We don't ne= ed a "unified" BSD; BSD is already unified in the ways that matter. Open so= urce and meritocracy see to that. Tim -- Tim Larson Software Engineer [Proxibid] e: Tim.Larson@proxibid.com p: 877-505-7770 d: 402-505-7770 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended = solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. = If you have received this email in error please notify by return email. If = you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copyin= g, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this in= formation is strictly prohibited. Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no= viruses are present in this email, no assurance or warranty is given that = this email and any attachments are free of viruses. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 17:52:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E269EFA for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:52:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48288FC12 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:52:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBDA68.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.218.104]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id qADHq5aE008986; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:52:06 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qADHptEk035497; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:51:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qADHp9MW096913; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:51:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201211131751.qADHp9MW096913@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:56 +0100." <50A23E70.8010509@update.uu.se> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:51:09 +0100 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@NetBSD.org, Ignatios Souvatzis , users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:52:26 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Johnny Billquist > Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:56 +0100 > Message-id: <50A23E70.8010509@update.uu.se> Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2012-11-13 11:45, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: > >> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: > >> > >>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? > >> > >> > >> You'd end up creating a fifth. > > > > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. > > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, > > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible > > userland, an eighth. > > And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases? > (And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would > have been called 1BSD as well...) > > Johnny No they were sequential from same team, not later parallel forks. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with "> ". Send plain text. Not: HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 18:38:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BF4A87 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:38:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from espie@nerim.net) Received: from bamako.nerim.net (bamako.ipv6.nerim.net [IPv6:2001:7a8:1:5::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6478FC0C for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:38:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bamako.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF6439DEB5; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:41 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at nerim.net Received: from bamako.nerim.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bamako.nerim.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2thmuNsAdo-A; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from espie.gentiane.org (espie.net8.nerim.net [213.41.185.88]) by bamako.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E53ED39DC39; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from lain.home (espie@localhost.home [127.0.0.1]) by espie.gentiane.org (8.14.5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qADIcUDi028190; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:30 +0100 (CET) Received: (from espie@localhost) by lain.home (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id qADIcSdJ004768; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:38:27 +0100 From: Marc Espie To: Ignatios Souvatzis Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121113183827.GA22809@lain.home> Mail-Followup-To: Ignatios Souvatzis , Joost van de Griek , netbsd-users@netbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, misc@openbsd.org References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: espie@nerim.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:38:34 -0000 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:45:11AM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: > > On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: > > > > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? > > > > > > You'd end up creating a fifth. > > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. Nice. And it's not April the first yet. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 19:24:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFA5C07 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:24:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313C88FC08 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:24:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pool-173-74-32-171.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([173.74.32.171] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TYM6N-0004SE-2f; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:24:51 -0500 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 9134-1352834690; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:24:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:24:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" X-X-Sender: reed@t1.m.reedmedia.net To: netbsd-users@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: Unified BSD? In-Reply-To: <201211131751.qADHp9MW096913@fire.js.berklix.net> Message-ID: References: <201211131751.qADHp9MW096913@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (NEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:24:59 -0000 On Tue, 13 Nov 2012, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases? > > (And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would > > have been called 1BSD as well...) > No they were sequential from same team, not later parallel forks. 1BSD is not an operating system. 2BSD wasn't an operating system until 2.8BSD which was after 3BSD. I'd suggest that 2.x and 4.x are different forks; they had some different developers, lots of different code, but also lots of shared code. echo uggc://errqzrqvn.arg/obbxf/ofq-uvfgbel/ | \ tr "noqruvxzabcefgl" "abdehikmnoprsty" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 21:43:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B466B2 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:43:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from msporleder@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE8B8FC08 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:43:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k19so4327998qcs.13 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:43:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NcepfX8ezTyq2GL+mk9vBS+879skCpLyfvL754WfcdM=; b=DBM2Hh6mfQxTmp2Ap2fdXhsWUGQ10B62OplVhOm2r4AjqVTGNdQY16f4rxXCTQottL W91WAVXCzUs4toTVE+dkgcO1mx2plSeC0C2Kly+vqf64ZJ1bhIrknCSJDhn1GEhZDXmr koQeU/kiOM6c9cBV+3+vjGQqDkHBXXtX2NY/ib5ifMlILo4oGNiSlsa9jEdyP2tk7zE6 1+qdOsKSrrNnlaSeuXeuxbB8Nej9+uNj/aliCb0hCvR8SR26mCpRi1FXPJ8bMdHL49vc OZZSPsT/j9GVqwhBij50lUNTfdB5RgVsesJSbwOV/4Da0RYSg0vMCTfCHqh3Pgub2SJK vZtw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.132.68 with SMTP id os4mr3800697qeb.65.1352842998624; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.120.232 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:43:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:43:18 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: matthew sporleder To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robin_Bj=F6rklin?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, NetBSD Users Mailing List , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:43:20 -0000 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Robin Bj=F6rklin wrote: > Hi! > > First and foremost I'd like to present myself, I'm a young and naive juni= or > sys admin that think people should be able to compromise and see the bigg= er > picture and the good of the cause. > > Now over to the reason for my post. > > As all of you probably know there's a lot of buzz around Gnu/Linux these > days and I'm pretty sure you couldn't care less. What I'm wondering is wh= y > the BSD community which from what I can gather isn't as big as the Linux > community have decided to split their resources into several different > projects/forks/distributions. To me it seems *BSD would be in a more > competitive shape if all developers would get in under one roof? > > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four large= st > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and cre= ate > a Unified BSD? > > Kind Regards, > Robin Bjorklin Model yourself after Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino who was involved in Net, Open, and Free BSD. If you are interested in generating linux-like "buzz" advocate hardware manufacturers and industry types to fund (with money) development of drivers. Matt From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 13 23:44:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A6F7A0 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bqt@update.uu.se) Received: from GW.SoftJAR.SE (static-213-115-73-154.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se [213.115.73.154]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49D18FC12 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:44:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-172-28-211-120.zrh.corp.google.com (unknown [74.125.57.33]) by GW.SoftJAR.SE (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B97562794; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:44:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50A2DB69.8070902@update.uu.se> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:44:41 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: Unified BSD? References: <201211131751.qADHp9MW096913@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201211131751.qADHp9MW096913@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@NetBSD.org, Ignatios Souvatzis , users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:44:45 -0000 On 2012-11-13 18:51, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, > Reference: >> From: Johnny Billquist >> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:34:56 +0100 >> Message-id: <50A23E70.8010509@update.uu.se> > > Johnny Billquist wrote: >> On 2012-11-13 11:45, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >>>> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: >>>> >>>>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? >>>> >>>> >>>> You'd end up creating a fifth. >>> >>> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. >>> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, >>> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible >>> userland, an eighth. >> >> And what about 2BSD, BSD 3 and BSD 4 with all their releases? >> (And I assume that there was probably something that in retrospect would >> have been called 1BSD as well...) >> >> Johnny > > No they were sequential from same team, not later parallel forks. Not so fast... 2BSD and BSD 4 are definitely parallel, almost to this day, I'd say... Well, BSD 4 has been sortof dead for a number of years now, but 2BSD is not entirely so dead yet. And things were back- and forwardported between the two for a while. Johnny From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 14 05:00:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56A91EE for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 05:00:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 3YiWjUAoGDMMq73w-7x3wpzz.lxvo0nnk1m-lqj2o0nnk1m.x0p@photos-server.bounces.google.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f74.google.com (mail-oa0-f74.google.com [209.85.219.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D8C8FC30 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 05:00:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f74.google.com with SMTP id k14so11279oag.1 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:00:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.98.129 with SMTP id s1mt24167901icn.0.1352869218137; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:00:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <90e6ba614ce42cba0f04ce6d69a2@google.com> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 05:00:18 +0000 Subject: freight forwarder & logistics provider shared photos with you From: "freight forwarder & logistics provider" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=90e6ba614ce42db3df04ce6d69cd X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: freight forwarder & logistics provider List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 05:00:18 -0000 --90e6ba614ce42db3df04ce6d69cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBNeSBGcmllbmQNCg0KICAgICAgICAgTmljZSBkYXksIEh5dW4gWW91bmcgaXMgYSBsZWFk aW5nIHByb2Zlc3Npb25hbCBmcmVpZ2h0IGZvcndhcmRlciAgDQphbmQgbG9naXN0aWNzIHByb3Zp ZGVyIHdobyBmb2N1cyBvbiB0aGUgc2hpcG1lbnQgZnJvbSBTb3V0aCBDaGluYSB0byBhbGwgIA0K dGhlIHdvcmxkLiBIeXVuIFlvdW5nIHN0YXJ0ZWQgZnJlaWdodCBmb3J3YXJkaW5nIG9wZXJhdGlv biBhdCBTaGVuemhlbiBpbiAgDQoyMDA0LiBCYXNlZCBhdCBTaGVuemhlbiwgb3VyIGFtYml0aW9u IGhhdmUgcHVzaGVkIHVzIGZvcndhcmQgdG8gZXhwYW5kIHRvICANCm90aGVyIGNpdGllcyBpbiBz b3V0aCBvZiBDaGluYS4gTm93IHdlIGhhdmUgY2FwYWNpdHkgb2YgaGFuZGluZyBzaGlwbWVudCB0 byAgDQpvciBmcm9tIGFsbCB0aGUgcG9ydHMgaW4gc291dGggb2YgQ2hpbmEuDQogICAgICAgICAg IEhvbGRzIHdoaWxlIHdob2xlIC0gaGVhcnRlZGx5IGFjaGlldmVzIHRoZSBiZXN0IGVudGVycHJp c2UgIA0Kb2JqZWN0aXZlLCBXaXRoIHRoZSBncmVhdCBzdXBwb3J0IG9mIG91ciBnbG9iYWwgYWdl bmN5LCB3ZSBwcm92aWRlIHNlcnZpY2VzICANCnRvIG91ciBjdXN0b21lcnMgdGhyb3VnaCBwcm9j ZXNzLWRyaXZlbiBvcGVyYXRpb24gdGVhbSwgYWR2YW5jZWQgIA0KaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gc3lzdGVt LCBhbmQgc3Ryb25nIG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgdGVhbS4NCg0KR2xhbmNlIHRvIG91ciBjb21wYW55Og0K MS4JU2VhIEZyZWlnaHQsIGluY2x1ZGVkIEZDTCZMQ0w7DQoyLglBaXIgRnJlaWdodDsNCjMuCUV4 cHJlc3MsIGluY2x1ZGVkIERITCxVUFMsRkVERVgsU0FHQVdBIGFuZCBTQ09SRUpQOw0KNC4JSW1w b3J0ICYgRXhwb3J0Ow0KNS4JTGFuZCBUcmFuc3BvcnRhdGlvbi4NCg0KICAgICAgICAgICBXZSBz ZWVrIG5vIHN0cm9uZ2VzdCBvbmx5IG1vcmUgc3BlY2lhbGl6ZWQsIHNlbmlvci4gWW91ciAgDQpz YXRpc2ZpZWQgd2lsbCBiZSBvdXIgbWF4aW1hbCBwcmlkZS4NCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LQ0KU2hlbnpoZW4gSHl1biBZb3VuZyBJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsIFRyYW5zcG9ydGF0aW9uIENPLixM VEQNCkphY2t5IFlhbmcNCg0KQWRkOiBGbG9vciA3JjgsIFNvdXRoIEJhb5JhbiBSb2FkLCBMdW9o dSBEaXN0cmljdCwgU2hlbnpoZW4sIEd1YW5nZG9uZywgIA0KQ2hpbmEuDQo= --90e6ba614ce42db3df04ce6d69cd-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 14 08:45:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A0420F for ; 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d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to :references; s=smtpout; bh=gTbNY4UpfbxwJB3lHEPKI6nZdoo=; b=IJS6t 9z6jSJG/gZCmKe5nESsp1Ni489niYFwIpfxP7LNkU6D4d59eM0cFYxD84pDC7Syq yqzZh8CoeBvRDEyF3ngU/xDtn0OznGAa5ODgbUii5xwbx5O8Lymhf1Q2l12H2A5v HSXFah1Vtajmkh1gdLKPbo7+pKU6JUmbUD8BWA= Received: by web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id CC6AD3A0E8A; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 03:45:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: HrCr89geTHwZqxk7z2eQqQTbIQuItzsXeHB5q9VqUFM5 1352882728 From: Magnus Eriksson To: matthew sporleder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:45:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:45:31 -0000 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012, at 14:18, Martin wrote: > My point is about the possibility of creating a new BSD project (with > separate developers) that aims for 100% compatibility with at least > FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and maybe DragonflyBSD. On Tue, Nov 13, 2012, at 22:43, matthew sporleder wrote: > If you are interested in generating linux-like "buzz" advocate > hardware manufacturers and industry types to fund (with money) > development of drivers. Not a developer, but here's something I've been thinking about: Are there perhaps some *parts* of the major BSDs (kernel interfaces, file formats) that could benefit from being unified / standardized? Maybe at least a subset of syscalls and libraries that could be agreed on and declared stable forever so that simple binaries can run? That is something that's already being done for Linux compatibility - except for the bit about stability. But why should I have to keep Linux binaries around for handling weird archive formats? I think matthew is basically right; but if there was only one single target to develop for, with a big fat sign on it saying simply "BSD", I'd bet that arguing for getting things written - graphics drivers or userland tools for managing ones RAID setup, or whatever would end up being feasible - would be easier. In my daydreams (slightly less unrealistic than the mail that started the discussion) I'm sending an email to a developer that says "Hey, you can get four done in one shot, and it's also a standard. And did I mention that Apple and the Minix project have been using lots of code from the BSD projects? Want to bet they'll adopt this too?". Yeah, I need to get out more, but you get the point. Magnus From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 14 16:45:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F098F5 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin.kelly4000@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3C08FC0C for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so780724obc.13 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:45:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=gp/N6D3il0l4VBTBuA/oSO3oXpwMWDDMMTS3juwvwv0=; b=qJ0PsGGXCJhQjciOrCNuoMv+IZNyg75gCG0pLZYFAwNMZ+TDrxa5PpTR9+V0BaSxjN iKy0wH0ax3URtpuNZ/IHVSU7R7UfOjzb0A4r3qRQ5jmcxw/tHVvVEoUItFKL8zKNSnN4 KhNEPv2nTDeTbj3t/hAluyeuUrTpKJyqrggReyJnk/Z8mQmwlaIpGpwbSfvnjL4ofC5q 2puFcyyVL9PMOcr4zawGTg7oPuBzUCQ3xynQVVKwl5Hcc9p17MwHchDi6YFDO/tTar7G RyGa0vP5eBxhjix5+B0C9K+9evIWUpV1yvbczp1EQLzx8xDIBg7bODveGwcDpZFF55GZ /VfQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.3.99 with SMTP id b3mr12469468oeb.66.1352911510637; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:45:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.92.41 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 08:45:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1352882728.28075.140661153435965.302F0E4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:45:10 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Martin To: Magnus Eriksson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: matthew sporleder , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:45:12 -0000 I see your point. But again the problem arises of if you have one big fat sign "BSD" which BSD are you developing for? Without having at least a universal package management system if you don't want each individual BSD developments to be porting drivers across. Which i believe is already in place in the form of "pkgsrc", but this would require a standardization of pkgsrc and how its implemented within each BSD. As i know NetBSD, FreeBSD and DragonflyBSD all apply pkgsrc differently. The biggest fault i see with this idea is updates. Pkgsrc is generally just one large blob of binaries or source that have been deemed stable and compatible with that current release of whichever BSD in question (generally archived by date). That means in its current form with each BSD on a different release schedule there would be incompatibilities for those BSDs that don't update as frequently (namely NetBSD, OpenBSD & DragonflyBSD). Which means a change of how source and binaries are archived not to mention pooled together. On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Magnus Eriksson wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012, at 14:18, Martin wrote: > > My point is about the possibility of creating a new BSD project (with > > separate developers) that aims for 100% compatibility with at least > > FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and maybe DragonflyBSD. > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012, at 22:43, matthew sporleder wrote: > > If you are interested in generating linux-like "buzz" advocate > > hardware manufacturers and industry types to fund (with money) > > development of drivers. > > Not a developer, but here's something I've been thinking about: Are > there perhaps some *parts* of the major BSDs (kernel interfaces, file > formats) that could benefit from being unified / standardized? Maybe at > least a subset of syscalls and libraries that could be agreed on and > declared stable forever so that simple binaries can run? That is > something that's already being done for Linux compatibility - except for > the bit about stability. But why should I have to keep Linux binaries > around for handling weird archive formats? > > I think matthew is basically right; but if there was only one single > target to develop for, with a big fat sign on it saying simply "BSD", > I'd bet that arguing for getting things written - graphics drivers or > userland tools for managing ones RAID setup, or whatever would end up > being feasible - would be easier. > > In my daydreams (slightly less unrealistic than the mail that started > the discussion) I'm sending an email to a developer that says "Hey, you > can get four done in one shot, and it's also a standard. And did I > mention that Apple and the Minix project have been using lots of code > from the BSD projects? Want to bet they'll adopt this too?". > > Yeah, I need to get out more, but you get the point. > > > Magnus > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 15 13:42:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22CBD8F2 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@suki.ishpeck.net) Received: from suki.ishpeck.net (67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net [67.222.225.246]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF71D8FC0C for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:42:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 17207 invoked by uid 1031); 15 Nov 2012 13:42:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 06:42:24 -0700 From: Anthony ''Ishpeck'' Tedjamulia To: Robin Bj?rklin Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121115134224.GA13837@suki.ishpeck.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:42:31 -0000 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 09:37:41PM +0100, Robin Bj?rklin wrote: > Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest > BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and > create a Unified BSD? Short answer: Yes. Diversity breeds innovation. To unify would cost the unique features of each BSD. It may gain us more bug fixes but only if the diversity costs didn't also hurt the appeal to the contributors. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 15 13:53:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B78C60 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:53:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@suki.ishpeck.net) Received: from suki.ishpeck.net (67-222-225-246.static.orml012.digis.net [67.222.225.246]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C1B38FC08 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:53:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 14110 invoked by uid 1031); 15 Nov 2012 13:53:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 06:53:17 -0700 From: Anthony ''Ishpeck'' Tedjamulia To: Ignatios Souvatzis Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121115135317.GB13837@suki.ishpeck.net> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <20121113120427.GE96846@e-new.0x20.net> <20121113122744.GB2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20121113122744.GB2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: Joost van de Griek , Lars Engels , misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:53:18 -0000 On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 01:27:44PM +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > b) Besides - I question the notion of "unchanging" == "dead". Amen! Sometimes, you just don't need to be twiddling in the code for your software to work. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 08:30:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B1A285 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:30:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4630E8FC08 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:30:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Alfreds-MacBook-Pro-5.local (c-67-180-208-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.208.218]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB1CC1A3CCD; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:30:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:30:12 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ignatios Souvatzis Subject: Re: Unified BSD? References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> In-Reply-To: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:30:12 -0000 On 11/13/12 2:45 AM, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: >> >>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? >> >> You'd end up creating a fifth. > At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list. > Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, > is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible > userland, an eighth. And Free/Net derived kernel. (at least for unix services: vfs, inet, process) > > -is > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 08:34:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D562533 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:34:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249648FC0C for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:34:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from maia.hub.org (unknown [200.46.151.189]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727091C722EA; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 04:34:23 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by maia.hub.org (mx1.hub.org [200.46.151.189]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 64755-03; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.52] (S01060026f3ee6b97.gv.shawcable.net [96.54.43.95]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CE7FE1C722E9; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 04:34:21 -0400 (AST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Hub- FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 00:34:19 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> To: Alfred Perlstein X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: Joost van de Griek , misc@openbsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Ignatios Souvatzis , users@dragonflybsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:34:30 -0000 Actually, according to what we are tracking at http://bsdstats.org, = there are currently *8*: PC-BSD FreeBSD PYC-BSD (aka Rus-BSD) DesktopBSD OpenBSD NetBSD DragonflyBSD MidnightBSD On 2012-11-16, at 12:30 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On 11/13/12 2:45 AM, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >>> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Bj=F6rklin = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four = largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of = each and create a Unified BSD? >>>=20 >>> You'd end up creating a fifth. >> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution = list. >> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, >> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD = compatible >> userland, an eighth. >=20 > And Free/Net derived kernel. (at least for unix services: vfs, inet, = process) >>=20 >> -is >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 11:48:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6C36FF for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomas.bodzar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116978FC08 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:48:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 16so3360967obc.13 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:48:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=28PCoUFZDBhbxyZoiiMTZTtmo+9WQX23LpRWyh+xxBg=; b=pyrs6iYHfymQX9whH39Cqh+kILzYrvvDsKXYAOnEtfjB49Tg77n47SOuFso9BVSNPy CGNBw9iOEC2ynE6LALGEKg7hDc9MxrkJNHoh0J+dra/DsVkMV63vdjS8SZ/xODIqcHVA GfvT/pC413HdTr5jArG1uYJ8gGZS8H0Ej5lIghcmS+eHI7GJf+uaZAd3fcil0F81Ki7G 9SunxhXA9igfZqTK+4pkV9I+zfffEqf+pkD/a7leoHsK7Ycdx3vfaA3Iwz3rUBxmmNwz OjBMeMW4tN62Jhy6qs/LYpTcf5KlFFye7ZpS5+cdv0m9+Qn8AJM5mHcKx3wNvAie4Ly6 urSw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.134.66 with SMTP id pi2mr3641071obb.42.1353066532080; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.11.68 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:48:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:48:51 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Tomas Bodzar To: Hub- FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Joost van de Griek , Alfred Perlstein , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Ignatios Souvatzis , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: tomas.bodzar@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:48:53 -0000 On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Hub- FreeBSD wrote: > > Actually, according to what we are tracking at http://bsdstats.org, there= are currently *8*: > > PC-BSD > FreeBSD > PYC-BSD (aka Rus-BSD) > DesktopBSD > OpenBSD > NetBSD > DragonflyBSD > MidnightBSD > Tracking something like DesktopBSD which doesn't exist for quite a long time make statistics not much useful. MidnightBSD seems to be same case as last activy on mailing list last year in May, forums doesn't working at all so we are still on 4 core BSDs (Open/Net/Free/Dfly). > > On 2012-11-16, at 12:30 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> On 11/13/12 2:45 AM, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >>>> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Bj=C3=B6rklin wrote: >>>> >>>>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four l= argest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each an= d create a Unified BSD? >>>> >>>> You'd end up creating a fifth. >>> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list= . >>> Also, you could argue that Minix, with its NetBSD compatibility, >>> is a seventh and MacOS-X, with its partially (Free-/Net-)BSD compatible >>> userland, an eighth. >> >> And Free/Net derived kernel. (at least for unix services: vfs, inet, pr= ocess) >>> >>> -is >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 13:52:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF695871 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bqt@update.uu.se) Received: from GW.SoftJAR.SE (static-213-115-73-154.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se [213.115.73.154]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011B98FC12 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:52:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-172-28-211-120.zrh.corp.google.com (unknown [74.125.57.33]) by GW.SoftJAR.SE (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A9936279C; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:52:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50A64530.2080808@update.uu.se> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:52:48 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tomas.bodzar@gmail.com Subject: Re: Unified BSD? References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Joost van de Griek , Alfred Perlstein , misc@openbsd.org, Hub- FreeBSD , users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, Ignatios Souvatzis , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:52:56 -0000 On 2012-11-16 12:48, Tomas Bodzar wrote: > On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Hub- FreeBSD wrote: >> >> Actually, according to what we are tracking at http://bsdstats.org, there are currently *8*: >> >> PC-BSD >> FreeBSD >> PYC-BSD (aka Rus-BSD) >> DesktopBSD >> OpenBSD >> NetBSD >> DragonflyBSD >> MidnightBSD >> > > Tracking something like DesktopBSD which doesn't exist for quite a > long time make statistics not much useful. MidnightBSD seems to be > same case as last activy on mailing list last year in May, forums > doesn't working at all so we are still on 4 core BSDs > (Open/Net/Free/Dfly). I find it rather meaningless as a tracking tool for BSD in general. There is no way something like 2BSD would ever appear there, no matter how many systems were installed. And I also do happen to consider OS-X to be a BSD system. :-) Johnny > >> >> On 2012-11-16, at 12:30 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> >>> On 11/13/12 2:45 AM, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: >>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:08:08AM +0100, Joost van de Griek wrote: >>>>> On 12 Nov 2012, at 21:37 , Robin Björklin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Am I bat crap crazy for thinking it could be good to merge the four largest BSD variants out there, take the best bits and pieces out of each and create a Unified BSD? >>>>> >>>>> You'd end up creating a fifth. >>>> At least a sixth, IIRC. You left out MirBSD from your distribution list From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 14:42:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91981ED0 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:42:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@alogreentechnologies.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.224.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393608FC16 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:42:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from X220.ovitrap.com ([122.129.203.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id qAGEg2lW019129; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:42:03 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:42:01 +0700 From: Erich Dollansky To: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: Unified BSD? Message-ID: <20121116214201.61eda6a7@X220.ovitrap.com> In-Reply-To: <50A64530.2080808@update.uu.se> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> <50A64530.2080808@update.uu.se> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:18:50 +0000 Cc: Joost van de Griek , Alfred Perlstein , misc@openbsd.org, Hub- FreeBSD , users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, tomas.bodzar@gmail.com, Ignatios Souvatzis , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:42:47 -0000 Hi, On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:52:48 +0100 Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2012-11-16 12:48, Tomas Bodzar wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Hub- FreeBSD > > wrote: > >> > >> Actually, according to what we are tracking at > >> http://bsdstats.org, there are currently *8*: > >> > >> PC-BSD > >> FreeBSD > >> PYC-BSD (aka Rus-BSD) > >> DesktopBSD > >> OpenBSD > >> NetBSD > >> DragonflyBSD > >> MidnightBSD > >> > > > > Tracking something like DesktopBSD which doesn't exist for quite a > > long time make statistics not much useful. MidnightBSD seems to be > > same case as last activy on mailing list last year in May, forums > > doesn't working at all so we are still on 4 core BSDs > > (Open/Net/Free/Dfly). > > I find it rather meaningless as a tracking tool for BSD in general. > There is no way something like 2BSD would ever appear there, no > matter how many systems were installed. the number of FreeBSD installations for Indonesia seem also very, very low. We would have 20% of the installation base then. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 16:20:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DE7967 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:20:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187408FC13 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:20:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from maia.hub.org (unknown [200.46.151.189]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 397D21C722EA; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:20:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by maia.hub.org (mx1.hub.org [200.46.151.189]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63762-05; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.52] (S01060026f3ee6b97.gv.shawcable.net [96.54.43.95]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9AB761C722E9; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:20:18 -0400 (AST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Hub- FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <50A64530.2080808@update.uu.se> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:20:17 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5C65B46F-174E-4BCB-A3C8-BCCA950805B5@hub.org> References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> <50A64530.2080808@update.uu.se> To: Johnny Billquist X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: Joost van de Griek , Alfred Perlstein , misc@openbsd.org, users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, tomas.bodzar@gmail.com, Ignatios Souvatzis , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:20:22 -0000 On 2012-11-16, at 5:52 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2012-11-16 12:48, Tomas Bodzar wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Hub- FreeBSD = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Actually, according to what we are tracking at http://bsdstats.org, = there are currently *8*: >>>=20 >>> PC-BSD >>> FreeBSD >>> PYC-BSD (aka Rus-BSD) >>> DesktopBSD >>> OpenBSD >>> NetBSD >>> DragonflyBSD >>> MidnightBSD >>>=20 >>=20 >> Tracking something like DesktopBSD which doesn't exist for quite a >> long time make statistics not much useful. MidnightBSD seems to be >> same case as last activy on mailing list last year in May, forums >> doesn't working at all so we are still on 4 core BSDs >> (Open/Net/Free/Dfly). >=20 > I find it rather meaningless as a tracking tool for BSD in general. = There is no way something like 2BSD would ever appear there, no matter = how many systems were installed. >=20 > And I also do happen to consider OS-X to be a BSD system. :-) I agree on that point, which is why I run it for my desktops =85 but = until you mention it, I'd never thought of even trying to get the script = to run =85 have to play with that this weekend and see how "out of the = box" it works, if it does =85 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 16 16:18:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBF88E5 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:18:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98088FC15 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:18:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from maia.hub.org (unknown [200.46.151.189]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A3301C722EA; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:18:29 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by maia.hub.org (mx1.hub.org [200.46.151.189]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62508-05; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:18:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.52] (S01060026f3ee6b97.gv.shawcable.net [96.54.43.95]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6C22E1C722E9; Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:18:26 -0400 (AST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: Unified BSD? From: Hub- FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20121116214201.61eda6a7@X220.ovitrap.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:18:22 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20121113104511.GA2362@cs.uni-bonn.de> <50A5F994.9080307@mu.org> <1C35F6E4-4A43-43C4-8256-17C58E8F8F01@hub.org> <50A64530.2080808@update.uu.se> <20121116214201.61eda6a7@X220.ovitrap.com> To: Erich Dollansky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:06:01 +0000 Cc: Joost van de Griek , Alfred Perlstein , misc@openbsd.org, Johnny Billquist , users@dragonflybsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org, tomas.bodzar@gmail.com, Ignatios Souvatzis , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:18:32 -0000 On 2012-11-16, at 6:42 AM, Erich Dollansky = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:52:48 +0100 > Johnny Billquist wrote: >=20 >> On 2012-11-16 12:48, Tomas Bodzar wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Hub- FreeBSD >>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Actually, according to what we are tracking at >>>> http://bsdstats.org, there are currently *8*: >>>>=20 >>>> PC-BSD >>>> FreeBSD >>>> PYC-BSD (aka Rus-BSD) >>>> DesktopBSD >>>> OpenBSD >>>> NetBSD >>>> DragonflyBSD >>>> MidnightBSD >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Tracking something like DesktopBSD which doesn't exist for quite a >>> long time make statistics not much useful. MidnightBSD seems to be >>> same case as last activy on mailing list last year in May, forums >>> doesn't working at all so we are still on 4 core BSDs >>> (Open/Net/Free/Dfly). >>=20 >> I find it rather meaningless as a tracking tool for BSD in general.=20= >> There is no way something like 2BSD would ever appear there, no >> matter how many systems were installed. >=20 > the number of FreeBSD installations for Indonesia seem also very, very > low. We would have 20% of the installation base then. Its a purely opt-in system, excepf for PC-BSD, which has theirs as an = opt-out when you install the OS =85 that is why its numbers are so much = higher then everyone else =85