From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 06:55:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D791065680 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 06:55:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from decke@FreeBSD.org) Received: from groupware.itac.at (groupware.itac.at [91.205.172.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B6A8FC17 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 06:55:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from home.bluelife.at (93.104.210.95) by groupware.itac.at (Axigen) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPSA id 3E86BC; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:55:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 08:55:52 +0200 From: Bernhard Froehlich To: Message-ID: X-Sender: decke@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.7.2 X-AxigenSpam-Level: 1 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0204.4FD444F9.00AF,ss=1,fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Cc: Subject: VirtualBox on FreeBSD is looking for you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 06:55:55 -0000 Hi VirtualBox users! We are again at the point where I am kindly asking if someone is interested to help with the VirtualBox on FreeBSD work. We started with an active team of around 3 people but since about one year I ended up being a lonely ranger. Maintaining such a beast/high profile port by a single person is not possible for a longer period so we should really try to form a team to improve the situation. Additionally I started working on redports.org which requires more and more time so I cannot dedicate all my work to virtualbox. The situation of the port right now is not bad but I always end up fire fighting and only concentrate on serious problems due to the limited time I have. So it happens that people send bugreports and patches for virtualbox and don't get a response for weeks if at all. A lot of bugs that we have since day one are still present and the list of items that we should seriously do is getting longer. Many things of them are userland and porting stuff but there are also a lot of things to do in the kernel modules. Andriy Gapon has rewritten the r0 memory allocation stuff which significantly improved the situation in that area but the networking kernel modules are still in a bad shape. There are various known bugs (performance problems, instabilities, ...) in that area so it would be great if someone with networking expertise could have a look at the code. The USB stuff needs some love too. It is there but only works for a few special combinations of Device and Guest OS. Since VirtualBox 4.1 there is experimental support for PCI Passthrough so if we want that we need some Kernel API for the Intel/AMD IOMMU. I think the IOMMU code has already been written for BeHyVe so we need someone who puts all the stuff together and wants to find out how to integrate that in the kernel and vbox. The vbox developers offered their help on that but they need a Kernel API before we can start talking about it. So what is it that the virtualbox team needs to do? - regulary test latest SVN sources to find new problems early (build, runtime testing, create build fixes) - maintain all 8 ports (changes in CURRENT or other port updates keep breaking virtualbox around once per month) - update ports to new bugfix releases - review patches from the community and send them upstream then nag vbox developers to get them committed - help users to diagnose problems (help debugging, get stacktraces, collect information, give hints) - further porting efforts (coordinate and probably do it yourself) - optionsng adaptions - FreeBSD installer for the vbox additions to be able to build a VBoxAdditions.iso with FreeBSD support - implement vboxsf support (Shared Folders) - PCI Passthrough support - USB support (needs fixing) - Networking support (needs fixing) It is unrealistic that one single person can do a majority of these things so we seriously need a few people from different areas to improve the situation. Be it kernel developers, ports people or just power users that can help testing and diagnosing bugs. If you have an interest in VirtualBox on FreeBSD and a few spare cycles please get in contact with us (me?) to coordinate the further steps. I will do my best to help answering questions and help you with your first steps in vbox land. Don't worry if you think you are not experienced enough for the task. We all started that way and you get the chance to learn a lot - it just needs some time to get used to it. I have also created a dedicated VirtualBox on FreeBSD channel on freenode: #freebsd-vbox so you're welcome to join us! -- Bernhard Froehlich http://www.bluelife.at/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 10:08:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBE4106566C for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:08:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from graudeejs@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A338FC1E for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:08:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so2709334lbo.13 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:08:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=HTuSeQoeMfXkwfP1mHCrulgdOHnWAu2ewjYkIA3ANWM=; b=Slogme/TV4/4GUvryuRIWu6lET8GbYaeDVLaaGC6pHLC7ikmrVIZhFHkNqMX+S4KT/ lKAiMIEiK1UEz1oLqUuGDN3lEMmJWmSzkr4G38FiUa0ynB5Z0JGnnj1WKlof0zCemz6F 90NzD0LHd63eWzEcQQW+W4uLrFJ/gC3QhB0ee8xmPH3kgV7914HbSMs/ig7X4yzAmUAG ky86dYaKnxP9v7o8HOptSgnLA2YgP0x5+yiFOu/UKHZe4vYQWnYMMaAhsR5d1ulUGa5I qyTKDOZL4W5OAh/bWNIPdSQtm6m5smxtHVlQOMXBtPndZFuhyGutS8QtYSEudk/ln5oq xm+w== Received: by 10.152.46.6 with SMTP id r6mr14081291lam.7.1339322890436; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desktop.pc (mpe-11-35.mpe.lv. [83.241.11.35]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fd1sm6796188lbb.7.2012.06.10.03.08.09 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:07:58 +0300 From: Aldis Berjoza Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120610130758.74a8b65b@desktop.pc> In-Reply-To: <79C2B8B9-9A7E-4793-AE03-FE387BB1694B@kientzle.com> References: <20120609143521.GA3940@tinyCurrent> <79C2B8B9-9A7E-4793-AE03-FE387BB1694B@kientzle.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/2koaQQ3N9SSHWi/xypwt=ff"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Subject: Re: cleaning /usr/obj before copying it to USB key X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:08:12 -0000 --Sig_/2koaQQ3N9SSHWi/xypwt=ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 08:57:33 -0700 Tim Kientzle wrote: >=20 > You can delete all of the '.o' files using a command like this: >=20 > find /usr/obj -name '*.o' | xargs rm >=20 I think: find /usr/obj -name '*.o' -delete is much better --=20 Aldis Berjoza --Sig_/2koaQQ3N9SSHWi/xypwt=ff Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP1HIHAAoJECrA2xnMujn6Gi8IALRb3iVXt8pe3q3k6ulNP4aZ YXAg3Ul3HS4reVQ/6YrjXehqZvk9ziWCqoU2HrldziFe9FGMzSI+VD+ssgcNP2U0 R81gZehtTM5l1O/tfcIHYXu44BAq+OHcrJBcpwJLgfn+zQ8RAu7Y4dZA3RCetPHn i3Cw/WO5lxf6UY7A+wXg//DT/BVENU/QrIVgLuEV8jeNqT2R4xe87Zs5nq6RtoCa njWiPyOni8EI8e+EXp9fPyWtaGCx65AmDTotUqpoV/m1VDNTMyBoLia8y9wXT9ka 2lBMhtKyUelHnJAdXBpgo5OvRqQsUVw3Q1i6pk1XJefV8mfZGOPYTXb2Kn3crWo= =7GN8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/2koaQQ3N9SSHWi/xypwt=ff-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 10:15:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E1C1065676 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377278FC12 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:15:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so2233146wgb.31 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:15:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=7XUPOGCH4BJZEckY1QYzGwbvLEfsWokKrU3SDfbd0GI=; b=0uEGrPh5lpi2JDDsqvv1uklmOKbQOWDCiDY+4+AUkGj+uuu8rAoY3/tdndXYToTD9B 0VUz5D+pIcWyLxlNI/nV39YvV+ms9OGU3+WjaO0mKqgPH1o1s0JffIv2qbEEa6gpKU6Q yZY70iWGgoZxzj9OJfr+g58jVMvc9HOYzTjZrxBWkMavgHq5Ziii6Pqv3hliRGGpL5s+ gYMtjhdPYgLLKnRqyFx9MW4UxUFLofyQjJxWDJohntgir6gxBXHXmWuRQj4PW/Z1bT5N zqKf0Rjuih+jjfj6sBjnk3/ySgf05KqdBEcPyqaRN5zbwLwiv0rTI1ADA5+/y76B39sE TwzA== Received: by 10.180.101.170 with SMTP id fh10mr14800214wib.0.1339323315039; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fo7sm15794228wib.9.2012.06.10.03.15.12 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120610.101514.286.4@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:15:14 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: wired memory - again! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:15:16 -0000 ----- Original Message -----=0D=0AFrom: Ian Lepore = =0D=0ATo: Wojciech Puchar = =0D=0ACc: = freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=0D=0ADate: Sat, 09 Jun 2012 10:27:03 = -0600=0D=0ASubject: Re: wired memory - again!=0D=0A=0D=0A> On Sat, = 2012-06-09 at 09:21 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:=0D=0A> > top reports = wired memory 128MB=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > WHERE it is used? below = results of vmstat -m and vmstat -z=0D=0A> > values does not sum up even = to half of it=0D=0A> > FreeBSD 9 - few days old.=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > What = i am missing and why there are SO MUCH wired memory on 1GB machine = =0D=0A> > without X11 or virtualbox=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > [vmstat output = snipped]=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> =0D=0A> =0D=0A> I have been struggling to = answer the same question for about a week on=0D=0A> our embedded systems = (running 8.2). We have systems with 64MB ram which=0D=0A> have 20MB = wired, and I couldn't find any way to directly view what that=0D=0A> = wired memory is being used for. I also discovered that the vmstat=0D=0A> = output accounted for only a tiny fraction of the 20MB.=0D=0A=0D=0AAngel = dust.=0D=0A=0D=0ALOL!=0D=0A:P=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 12:19:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D74F106564A; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:19:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825AA8FC12; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:19:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA19092; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:19:36 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Sdh7H-00007a-SA; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:19:36 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:19:33 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=X-VIET-VPS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:19:44 -0000 It seems that the $subj is missing :-) In my environment that causes many functions to not have fbt return probe, because function body decoding fails before 'ret' is found. Here is my attempt at fixing the problem: http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/fbt-nop.patch Reviews and suggestions are welcome. Thank you! -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 12:48:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE29106566B for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:48:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A133B8FC0A for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:48:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA19211; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:48:22 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SdhZ7-00008A-Nh; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:48:21 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD49794.7060408@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:48:20 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcin Wisnicki References: <4FD05C16.9040905@FreeBSD.org> <20120607084738.GT85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <4FD06CD3.3080602@FreeBSD.org> <20120607095741.GA1361@reks> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:48:25 -0000 on 09/06/2012 17:45 Marcin Wisnicki said the following: > On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:57:41 +0300, Gleb Kurtsou wrote: > >> On (07/06/2012 11:56), Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> A user doesn't have to select the option unless he needs to. A "simple >>> user" can just reboot without selecting the option to get back his X. A >>> user doesn't have to learn anything about the code, just about kenv and >>> "magic" inhibit_gui variable. >> >> What do you think about adding generic support for overriding *_enable >> options in rc.conf? >> >> I'd like to be able to disable services at boot prompt, e.g. # set >> rc.slim_enable="no" -- overrides slim_enable="yes" in rc.conf >> >> Similarly rc.pf_enable="no" >> >> Then introduce x_enable knob (=yes by default) to disable login >> managers. User will be able to override this setting with # service xdm >> forcestart >> > > That's trivial to implement: > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-November/079241.html > > Still applies with minor reject that can be ignored or easily resolved. > > It also brings support for overriding path to rc.conf, allowing multiple > boot configurations. Hey, this is very nice, thank you! And developed almost 5 years ago too. I wonder what rc@ guys would think about committing this. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 13:34:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6FB106564A; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:34:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-listen@fabiankeil.de) Received: from smtprelay02.ispgateway.de (smtprelay02.ispgateway.de [80.67.31.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7D88FC0C; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:34:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.35.164.130] (helo=fabiankeil.de) by smtprelay02.ispgateway.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1SdiBl-0008T2-3T; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:28:17 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:27:21 +0200 From: Fabian Keil To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/0505RVOCRjn_Zz7F5zv4atD"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Df-Sender: Nzc1MDY3 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:34:11 -0000 --Sig_/0505RVOCRjn_Zz7F5zv4atD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andriy Gapon wrote: > It seems that the $subj is missing :-) > In my environment that causes many functions to not have fbt return probe, > because function body decoding fails before 'ret' is found. >=20 > Here is my attempt at fixing the problem: > http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/fbt-nop.patch > Reviews and suggestions are welcome. The patch seems to reduce the number of missing fbt return probes by about 50% for me. Without the patch: fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry 23395 fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return 16739 With the patch (and updated kernel sources): fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry 23409 fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return 19879 Thanks Fabian --Sig_/0505RVOCRjn_Zz7F5zv4atD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/UoL4ACgkQBYqIVf93VJ2+wQCfVfvCivnU3Dn/iJZcivJ2JDeD C9UAnR+zvUV5C/VekYP3obj07yJhSSEK =k1kq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/0505RVOCRjn_Zz7F5zv4atD-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 16:38:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417AE106566B for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:38:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9918FC15 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:38:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id TAA20141; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:38:37 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Sdl9x-0000Gx-1i; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:38:37 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:38:35 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fabian Keil References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:38:41 -0000 on 10/06/2012 16:27 Fabian Keil said the following: > Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> It seems that the $subj is missing :-) >> In my environment that causes many functions to not have fbt return probe, >> because function body decoding fails before 'ret' is found. >> >> Here is my attempt at fixing the problem: >> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/fbt-nop.patch >> Reviews and suggestions are welcome. > > The patch seems to reduce the number of missing > fbt return probes by about 50% for me. > > Without the patch: > > fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > 23395 > fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > 16739 > > With the patch (and updated kernel sources): > > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > 23409 > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > 19879 Interesting observations, thank you. Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? I use only -O1. Here are some stats from my system: $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry 16876 $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return 16729 So, 147 functions without return probe. >From a quick look at them they all seem to really never return. Either they are noreturn type such panic, or functions that always call the functions of the first type, or functions with endless loops in them such as top level functions of many system threads. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 17:37:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F167A1065672 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:37:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455BD8FC0A for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:37:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id UAA20362; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:37:13 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Sdm4e-000044-M9; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:37:12 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD4DB47.3030006@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:37:11 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fabian Keil References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:37:16 -0000 on 10/06/2012 19:38 Andriy Gapon said the following: > From a quick look at them they all seem to really never return. Either they are > noreturn type such panic, or functions that always call the functions of the > first type, or functions with endless loops in them such as top level functions > of many system threads. Not entirely true :-) random_nehemiah_read() has a via-specific instruction that dtrace doesn't understand: xstore-rng / 0x0f 0xa7 0xc0. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 18:01:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C101065675; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:01:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-listen@fabiankeil.de) Received: from smtprelay03.ispgateway.de (smtprelay03.ispgateway.de [80.67.31.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C578FC15; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:01:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.35.164.130] (helo=fabiankeil.de) by smtprelay03.ispgateway.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1SdmNB-0005z3-7a; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:56:21 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:56:11 +0200 From: Fabian Keil To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120610195611.5a8eeaec@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/EdysLkl+sew/y3vrqCADOmZ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Df-Sender: Nzc1MDY3 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:01:25 -0000 --Sig_/EdysLkl+sew/y3vrqCADOmZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 10/06/2012 16:27 Fabian Keil said the following: > > Andriy Gapon wrote: > >=20 > >> It seems that the $subj is missing :-) > >> In my environment that causes many functions to not have fbt return pr= obe, > >> because function body decoding fails before 'ret' is found. > >> > >> Here is my attempt at fixing the problem: > >> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/fbt-nop.patch > >> Reviews and suggestions are welcome. > >=20 > > The patch seems to reduce the number of missing > > fbt return probes by about 50% for me. > >=20 > > Without the patch: > >=20 > > fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > > 23395 > > fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > > 16739 > >=20 > > With the patch (and updated kernel sources): > >=20 > > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > > 23409 > > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > > 19879 >=20 > Interesting observations, thank you. > Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? Yes, I kept the default -O2. > I use only -O1. With -O1 (and your patch) I get: fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry 23421 fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return 22621 > Here are some stats from my system: > $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry > 16876 > $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return > 16729 >=20 > So, 147 functions without return probe. > >From a quick look at them they all seem to really never return. Either = they are > noreturn type such panic, or functions that always call the functions of = the > first type, or functions with endless loops in them such as top level fun= ctions > of many system threads. I looked at a couple of the functions that still lack return probes and the ones I looked at don't seem to belong into these categories. For example I get no return probes for g_eli_crypto_decrypt() and g_eli_crypto_encrypt(). Both return the return code of g_eli_crypto_cipher() for which I get a return probe. Fabian --Sig_/EdysLkl+sew/y3vrqCADOmZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/U378ACgkQBYqIVf93VJ3bogCdHji0xGZCixxxcUhmTImxORzI tNEAoLigOjhi16L/CvR/w4vw8XnJeVlh =YNSV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/EdysLkl+sew/y3vrqCADOmZ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 18:17:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26ACE106566C for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB6B8FC0C for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id VAA20547; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:17:08 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SdmhH-00005M-Nd; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:17:07 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD4E4A1.8080605@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:17:05 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fabian Keil References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> <20120610195611.5a8eeaec@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <20120610195611.5a8eeaec@fabiankeil.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:17:11 -0000 on 10/06/2012 20:56 Fabian Keil said the following: > Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> on 10/06/2012 16:27 Fabian Keil said the following: >>> Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> >>>> It seems that the $subj is missing :-) >>>> In my environment that causes many functions to not have fbt return probe, >>>> because function body decoding fails before 'ret' is found. >>>> >>>> Here is my attempt at fixing the problem: >>>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/fbt-nop.patch >>>> Reviews and suggestions are welcome. >>> >>> The patch seems to reduce the number of missing >>> fbt return probes by about 50% for me. >>> >>> Without the patch: >>> >>> fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry >>> 23395 >>> fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return >>> 16739 >>> >>> With the patch (and updated kernel sources): >>> >>> fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry >>> 23409 >>> fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return >>> 19879 >> >> Interesting observations, thank you. >> Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? > > Yes, I kept the default -O2. > >> I use only -O1. > > With -O1 (and your patch) I get: > > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > 23421 > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > 22621 > >> Here are some stats from my system: >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry >> 16876 >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return >> 16729 >> >> So, 147 functions without return probe. >> >From a quick look at them they all seem to really never return. Either they are >> noreturn type such panic, or functions that always call the functions of the >> first type, or functions with endless loops in them such as top level functions >> of many system threads. > > I looked at a couple of the functions that still lack return > probes and the ones I looked at don't seem to belong into these > categories. > > For example I get no return probes for g_eli_crypto_decrypt() > and g_eli_crypto_encrypt(). Both return the return code of > g_eli_crypto_cipher() for which I get a return probe. I don't have GELI in kernel, but it looks like an instance of well-known tail call optimization issue. Although I assumed that GCC wouldn't apply it at -O1. Perhaps you use a module that was built with -O2. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 18:42:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD06106566C; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-listen@fabiankeil.de) Received: from smtprelay02.ispgateway.de (smtprelay02.ispgateway.de [80.67.31.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4248FC14; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:42:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [78.35.164.130] (helo=fabiankeil.de) by smtprelay02.ispgateway.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1Sdn63-0002VJ-En; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:42:43 +0200 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:42:39 +0200 From: Fabian Keil To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120610204239.19b93559@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <4FD4E4A1.8080605@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> <20120610195611.5a8eeaec@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4E4A1.8080605@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/lOMqGUv1mGD5grVSoty8jcr"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Df-Sender: Nzc1MDY3 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 18:42:45 -0000 --Sig_/lOMqGUv1mGD5grVSoty8jcr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 10/06/2012 20:56 Fabian Keil said the following: > > Andriy Gapon wrote: > >=20 > >> on 10/06/2012 16:27 Fabian Keil said the following: > >>> Andriy Gapon wrote: > >>> > >>>> It seems that the $subj is missing :-) > >>>> In my environment that causes many functions to not have fbt return = probe, > >>>> because function body decoding fails before 'ret' is found. > >>>> > >>>> Here is my attempt at fixing the problem: > >>>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/fbt-nop.patch > >>>> Reviews and suggestions are welcome. > >>> > >>> The patch seems to reduce the number of missing > >>> fbt return probes by about 50% for me. > >>> > >>> Without the patch: > >>> > >>> fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > >>> 23395 > >>> fk@r500 /usr/src $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > >>> 16739 > >>> > >>> With the patch (and updated kernel sources): > >>> > >>> fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > >>> 23409 > >>> fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > >>> 19879 > >> > >> Interesting observations, thank you. > >> Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? > >=20 > > Yes, I kept the default -O2. > >=20 > >> I use only -O1. > >=20 > > With -O1 (and your patch) I get: > >=20 > > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c entry > > 23421 > > fk@r500 ~ $sudo dtrace -ln fbt::: | grep -c return > > 22621 > >=20 > >> Here are some stats from my system: > >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry > >> 16876 > >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return > >> 16729 > >> > >> So, 147 functions without return probe. > >> >From a quick look at them they all seem to really never return. Eith= er they are > >> noreturn type such panic, or functions that always call the functions = of the > >> first type, or functions with endless loops in them such as top level = functions > >> of many system threads. > >=20 > > I looked at a couple of the functions that still lack return > > probes and the ones I looked at don't seem to belong into these > > categories. > >=20 > > For example I get no return probes for g_eli_crypto_decrypt() > > and g_eli_crypto_encrypt(). Both return the return code of > > g_eli_crypto_cipher() for which I get a return probe. >=20 > I don't have GELI in kernel, but it looks like an instance of well-known = tail > call optimization issue. Although I assumed that GCC wouldn't apply it a= t -O1. > Perhaps you use a module that was built with -O2. That was it. I missed that COPTFLAGS aren't applied to the modules. After recompiling geom_eli manually with CFLAGS=3D-O1 the return codes show up as expected How did you set your -O1? Fabian --Sig_/lOMqGUv1mGD5grVSoty8jcr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/U6qIACgkQBYqIVf93VJ3k9gCeOiFTwHsmihoEkb8A3AKHc4Zx m6YAnjt/h2UBKGkYggIEzcX7/pcbpa+B =Vp7f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/lOMqGUv1mGD5grVSoty8jcr-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 19:03:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF591065672 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9B68FC16 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:03:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id WAA20722; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 22:03:04 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SdnPk-00006p-At; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 22:03:04 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD4EF67.8040103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 22:03:03 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fabian Keil References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> <20120610195611.5a8eeaec@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4E4A1.8080605@FreeBSD.org> <20120610204239.19b93559@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <20120610204239.19b93559@fabiankeil.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:03:07 -0000 on 10/06/2012 21:42 Fabian Keil said the following: > How did you set your -O1? In CFLAGS. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 20:40:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8761106564A; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:40:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rysto32@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F8C8FC08; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:40:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so2070360wer.13 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=IlqnAO46GxFhDmzfB6JnjrDw1iDDNv/67mRWCmymbCU=; b=Vz7CFzU54qLsVxz8knPMCzKQxroQqC2zUgIR6bP0G7fKpgdkS73upMNEvmEW1MYtB2 +ilWATaJpIYnR+6lGVSNO5zTMxCQU79q/4xOMx1EaU1ukssc7CYnFU/7yvvfC1yEFK0E 8OI1MSzZCnSS5P9JfJCALTh9rjfNJW6lxOZXPwI9lmMLotJSvEZzztp4v80xttEqt7cG IrTzF5G0mbUTMFtEAJnXV0SFqz3QqUv36dzy6FB/96fTachdtGOqvm+/+QvqDzJhmuzu jXDj0ky2FgxKGa/gCYrpCO7xaFtF/1Isg4XbDTuxnhqRpAeafURCV1o3o3VLz6kCJ08r xBXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.228.88 with SMTP id e66mr5159147weq.208.1339360852992; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.146.131 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 16:40:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ryan Stone To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Fabian Keil Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:40:54 -0000 On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > Interesting observations, thank you. > Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? > I use only -O1. > > Here are some stats from my system: > $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry > 16876 > $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return > 16729 > > So, 147 functions without return probe. Try re-compiling with -foptimize-sibling-calls. That enables the tail call optimization in gcc, and therefore you get many functions with no ret instruction (and thus no return probe in DTrace) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 10 21:24:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DD81065672 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:24:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CA28FC0C for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:24:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id AAA21406; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 00:24:47 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Sdpct-0000BW-6X; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 00:24:47 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD5109D.5090107@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 00:24:45 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Stone References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Fabian Keil Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:24:51 -0000 on 10/06/2012 23:40 Ryan Stone said the following: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> Interesting observations, thank you. >> Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? >> I use only -O1. >> >> Here are some stats from my system: >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry >> 16876 >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return >> 16729 >> >> So, 147 functions without return probe. > > Try re-compiling with -foptimize-sibling-calls. That enables the tail > call optimization in gcc, and therefore you get many functions with no > ret instruction (and thus no return probe in DTrace) No, thank you :-) I switched from -O2 to -O1 exactly for this reason (among a few others), although -fno-optimize-sibling-calls would be a more targeted solution. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 04:01:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787331065670; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 04:01:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D508FC0C; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 04:01:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id q5B41AmG027130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id q5B41AP9027129; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA15405; Sun, 10 Jun 12 20:50:26 PDT Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 20:49:15 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: rysto32@gmail.com, avg@freebsd.org Message-Id: <4fd5cd2b.SwlSDIgKvkib2N6C%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> <4FD5109D.5090107@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FD5109D.5090107@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-listen@fabiankeil.de Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 04:01:15 -0000 Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 10/06/2012 23:40 Ryan Stone said the following: > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Andriy Gapon > > wrote: > >> Do you use -O2 or higher optimization for kernel/modules build? > >> I use only -O1. > >> > >> Here are some stats from my system: > >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c entry > >> 16876 > >> $ dtrace -ln fbt::: | fgrep -c return > >> 16729 > >> > >> So, 147 functions without return probe. > > > > Try re-compiling with -foptimize-sibling-calls. That enables > > the tail call optimization in gcc, and therefore you get many > > functions with no ret instruction (and thus no return probe in > > DTrace) Sounds as if DTrace could use an improvement to recognize and handle the tail call optimization, maybe something along the lines of: If a function has no otherwise-determined return probe and it contains a jump to the entry point of another function then it inherits that other function's return probe. I'd expect that to handle cases like int bar(...) { ... return baz; } int foo(...) { ... return bar(...); } (although probably not cases where the return in foo calls a function pointer). And no, I am not volunteering to add it -- ENOTIME :( From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 07:47:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD6A106566B for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:47:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from j.mckeown@ru.ac.za) Received: from mail.ru.ac.za (mail.ru.ac.za [IPv6:2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B978FC12 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:47:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ru.ac.za; s=ru-msa; h=X-Authenticated-User:Message-Id:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=vWjSzs9lFao3kR/O/YWzr8cUq7Irt1XOwnJx9OYl1O0=; b=aLB3JWbon5k8MQZPxdhJOdLts/hJou51Ld4B27PSd0f4Q2VxuqPaU+I7iDhqo8oz3HFV76gCwQ0+//3bAvSLmr+A0jxjS39X9D765VoRPBJEbWcHd0oplxJAYDW40CJB; Received: from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za ([2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932]:52831) by mail.ru.ac.za with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SdzLT-000HyI-38 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:47:27 +0200 From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Rhodes University To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:47:26 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <4FD0C1F4.2060108@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Face: $@VrUx^RHy/}yu]jKf/<4T%/d|F+$j-Ol2"2J$q+%OK1]&/G_S9(=?utf-8?q?HkaQ*=60!=3FYOK=3FY!=27M=60C=0A=09aP=5C9nVPF8Q=7DCilHH8l=3B=7E!4?= =?utf-8?q?2HK6=273lg4J=7Daz?=@1Dqqh:J]M^"YPn*2IWrZON$1+G?oX3@ =?utf-8?q?k=230=0A=0954XDRg=3DYn=5FF-etwot4U=24b?=dTS{i X-Virus-Scanned: mail.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:0:250:56ff:fe8d:5) X-Authenticated-User: s0900137 from vorkosigan.ru.ac.za (2001:4200:1010:1058:219:d1ff:fe9f:a932) using auth_plaintext Subject: Re: ifconfig accepting hostname as ipv4 address X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:47:31 -0000 On Saturday 09 June 2012 23:29:02 Kevin Oberman wrote: > On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Garrett Cooper wrot= e: > > > > =A0 =A0I agree that it's not the best configuration in the world, as it > > would only work 100% if a machine had proper DNS records or a > > definitive hosts file. > > =A0 =A0There are already enough bugs with static IP configurations and > > hostnames as-is *I'm looking at you mountlate* -- no sense to > > introduce more potentially buggy interoperability that only works in a > > handful of niche cases. > > The idea was that you could enter all of the local interface names in > /etc/hosts and than just put the names into the ifconfig commands. It > was handy for keeping track of what port connected where on systems > that had numerous interfaces, though this was more common in the day > of async serial lines and modems. > > I'll admit that I have mixed feelings about its practicality today, > though it does not hurt anything, as far as I can tell. It works fine as long as the machine has its own address in /etc/hosts - do= es=20 anyone not do that? Also, note that I'm not suggesting adding any functionality at all; just=20 replying to a suggestion that functionality be /removed/ - by pointing out= =20 that we find it useful and would rather not see it go. Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 10:20:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 908EC106568C for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:20:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401D98FC17 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:20:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Se1jp-0000bu-Lj for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:20:45 +0200 Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr ([161.53.72.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:20:45 +0200 Received: from ivoras by lara.cc.fer.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:20:45 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:20:32 +0200 Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <1073159468.20120602121458@serebryakov.spb.ru> <4FC9D420.6010203@FreeBSD.org> <4FC9D68D.60405@FreeBSD.org> <4FC9FDBE.6080401@FreeBSD.org> <4FCFE714.6070502@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigD92FCDDBAD220341696BF1A6" X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lara.cc.fer.hr User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120213 Thunderbird/10.0 In-Reply-To: <4FCFE714.6070502@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Subject: Re: SuperPages utilization survey X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:20:49 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigD92FCDDBAD220341696BF1A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/06/2012 01:26, Florian Smeets wrote: > On 05.06.12 16:29, Mark Felder wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 06:49:18 -0500, Florian Smeets w= rote: >> >>> As far as i understand it does at least enable usage of pages up to 4= MB, >>> perhaps someone should teach mysql about the FreeBSD's limits? >>> If you look at the output i sent, it certainly changes from using no >>> superpage mappings at all to using them to some degree, if you script= >>> can be trusted >> >> Wow, this is a nice find. If someone were to add a patch for FreeBSD's= =20 >> superpages we might be able to get a nice little performance boost wit= h =20 >> little effort. Even the increase to 4MB for now is a welcome improveme= nt. =20 >> I'll make sure to put this in my toolbox.... >=20 > I played with this some more. MySQL does not seem to use superpages. > After a mysqld restart Ivan's script and procstat showed superpage > mappings for mysqld, but it seems once MySQL "touches" the memory it's > not in superpages anymore. I looked at the MySQL code a bit and one > would need to add FreeBSD support in a couple of places. Perhaps I'll > find some time to try this, but i cannot make any promises. If I understand how superpages are promoted correctly, you may get a nice effect simply by changing malloc()s of 2MB+ sizes to calloc()s. --------------enigD92FCDDBAD220341696BF1A6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/VxnEACgkQ/QjVBj3/HSzTYQCfR4Fy9qtg871oD/pSqrQQdIDj EAYAn0FSPovwRGh27bqC99bfcSjN611u =jqZU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigD92FCDDBAD220341696BF1A6-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 07:24:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B921065687 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:24:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21558FC12 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:24:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6224F6A601C; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:24:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.0x20.net Received: from mail.0x20.net ([217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lEhEjUTdKHKg; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:24:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2274B6A6006; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:24:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5B7O2qH093027; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:24:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5B7O2q2092445; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:24:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:24:02 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: Aldis Berjoza Message-ID: <20120611072402.GL5592@e-new.0x20.net> References: <20120609143521.GA3940@tinyCurrent> <79C2B8B9-9A7E-4793-AE03-FE387BB1694B@kientzle.com> <20120610130758.74a8b65b@desktop.pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FCrxImOsEPEtRSmI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120610130758.74a8b65b@desktop.pc> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.3-RELEASE-p2 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:26:56 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cleaning /usr/obj before copying it to USB key X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:24:05 -0000 --FCrxImOsEPEtRSmI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 01:07:58PM +0300, Aldis Berjoza wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 08:57:33 -0700 > Tim Kientzle wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > You can delete all of the '.o' files using a command like this: > >=20 > > find /usr/obj -name '*.o' | xargs rm > >=20 >=20 >=20 > I think: > find /usr/obj -name '*.o' -delete > is much better Or: find /usr/obj -name '*.o' -exec rm {} \+ --FCrxImOsEPEtRSmI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/VnRIACgkQKc512sD3afgsSACglal+t1bL/b82R/n1lNkDi4r7 yasAnRTXW+jqIBoaioI1QkUorbtAqEgS =R/os -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FCrxImOsEPEtRSmI-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 12:34:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A961065687 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:34:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms16-1.1blu.de (ms16-1.1blu.de [89.202.0.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB218FC12 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:34:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.113.121.31] (helo=tiny.Sisis.de) by ms16-1.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Se3oy-0003Ik-Dv for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:34:13 +0200 Received: from tiny.Sisis.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tiny.Sisis.de (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5BCYAOw001970 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:34:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: (from guru@localhost) by tiny.Sisis.de (8.14.5/8.14.3/Submit) id q5BCY9vg001969 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:34:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) X-Authentication-Warning: tiny.Sisis.de: guru set sender to guru@unixarea.de using -f Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:34:09 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120611123409.GA1950@tiny> References: <20120609143521.GA3940@tinyCurrent> <79C2B8B9-9A7E-4793-AE03-FE387BB1694B@kientzle.com> <20120610130758.74a8b65b@desktop.pc> <20120611072402.GL5592@e-new.0x20.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20120611072402.GL5592@e-new.0x20.net> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT r226986 (i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Con-U: 0-guru X-Originating-IP: 82.113.121.31 Subject: Re: cleaning /usr/obj before copying it to USB key X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:34:24 -0000 El da Monday, June 11, 2012 a las 09:24:02AM +0200, Lars Engels escribi: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 01:07:58PM +0300, Aldis Berjoza wrote: > > On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 08:57:33 -0700 > > Tim Kientzle wrote: > > > > > > > > You can delete all of the '.o' files using a command like this: > > > > > > find /usr/obj -name '*.o' | xargs rm > > > > > > > > > I think: > > find /usr/obj -name '*.o' -delete > > is much better > > Or: > find /usr/obj -name '*.o' -exec rm {} \+ Thanks for the hints concerning find(1) usage. I was wondering if there is nothing like # make install-clean or # make remove-tempfiles Thanks matthias -- Matthias Apitz e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370) UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 15:33:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FB2106564A for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:33:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@vangyzen.net) Received: from aussmtpmrkpc120.us.dell.com (aussmtpmrkpc120.us.dell.com [143.166.82.159]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889E68FC08 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:33:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Loopcount0: from 64.238.244.148 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,389,1336366800"; d="scan'208";a="504918485" Received: from mail.compellent.com ([64.238.244.148]) by aussmtpmrkpc120.us.dell.com with ESMTP; 11 Jun 2012 10:33:22 -0500 Message-ID: <4FD60FC2.3060206@vangyzen.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:33:22 -0500 From: Eric van Gyzen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120531 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrey Zonov References: <4FC6748B.5030708@zonov.org> <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> In-Reply-To: <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usertime stale at about 371k seconds X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:33:28 -0000 On 05/31/2012 02:34, Andrey Zonov wrote: > On 5/30/12 11:27 PM, Andrey Zonov wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have long running process for which `ps -o usertime -p $pid' shows >> always the same time - 6190:07.65, `ps -o cputime -p $pid' for the same >> process continue to grow and now it's 21538:53.61. It looks like >> overflow in resource usage code or something. >> > > I reproduced that problem with attached program. I ran it with 23 > threads on machine with 24 CPUs and after night I see this: > > $ ps -o usertime,time -p 24134 && sleep 60 && ps -o usertime,time -p 24134 > USERTIME TIME > 6351:24.74 14977:35.19 > USERTIME TIME > 6351:24.74 15000:34.53 > > Per thread user-time counts correct: > > $ ps -H -o usertime,time -p 24134 > USERTIME TIME > 0:00.00 0:00.00 > 652:35.84 652:38.59 > 652:34.75 652:37.97 > 652:50.46 652:51.97 > 652:38.93 652:43.08 > 652:39.73 652:43.36 > 652:44.09 652:47.36 > 652:56.49 652:57.94 > 652:51.84 652:54.41 > 652:37.48 652:41.57 > 652:36.61 652:40.90 > 652:39.41 652:42.52 > 653:03.72 653:06.72 > 652:49.96 652:53.25 > 652:45.92 652:49.03 > 652:40.33 652:42.05 > 652:46.53 652:49.31 > 652:44.77 652:47.33 > 653:00.54 653:02.24 > 652:33.31 652:36.13 > 652:51.03 652:52.91 > 652:50.73 652:52.71 > 652:41.32 652:44.64 > 652:59.86 653:03.25 > > (kgdb) p $my->p_rux > $14 = {rux_runtime = 2171421985692826, rux_uticks = 114886093, > rux_sticks = 8353, rux_iticks = 0, rux_uu = 381084736784, rux_su = > 65773652, rux_tu = 904571706136} > (kgdb) p $my->p_rux > $15 = {rux_runtime = 2191831516209186, rux_uticks = 115966087, > rux_sticks = 8444, rux_iticks = 0, rux_uu = 381084736784, rux_su = > 66458587, rux_tu = 913099969825} > > As you can see rux_uu stale, but rux_uticks still ticks. I think the > problem is in calcru1(). This expression > > uu = (tu * ut) / tt > > overflows. > > I applied the following patch: > > Index: /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_resource.c > =================================================================== > --- /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_resource.c (revision 235394) > +++ /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_resource.c (working copy) > @@ -885,7 +885,7 @@ calcru1(struct proc *p, struct rusage_ext *ruxp, s > struct timeval *sp) > { > /* {user, system, interrupt, total} {ticks, usec}: */ > - uint64_t ut, uu, st, su, it, tt, tu; > + uint64_t ut, uu, st, su, it, tt, tu, tmp; > > ut = ruxp->rux_uticks; > st = ruxp->rux_sticks; > @@ -909,10 +909,20 @@ calcru1(struct proc *p, struct rusage_ext *ruxp, s > * The normal case, time increased. > * Enforce monotonicity of bucketed numbers. > */ > - uu = (tu * ut) / tt; > + if (ut == 0) > + uu = 0; > + else { > + tmp = tt / ut; > + uu = tmp ? tu / tmp : 0; > + } > if (uu < ruxp->rux_uu) > uu = ruxp->rux_uu; > > and now ran test again. This looks related to, and possibly identical to, PR kern/76972: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=76972 If you filed a PR, please submit a follow-up to both PRs so they reference each other. Thanks, Eric From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 16:34:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836B01065673 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:34:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nagpersonal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549E38FC08 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:34:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so5900442dad.13 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:34:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=eB3kk5N+nGKN1dyewLBe7v/ipBVXWbFaQ0kpw7Bfbxc=; b=eBk0CZRDpLzjDlFxn6suLmFFUpFSDxWuRTnc8G09NuM9Hzkjo+SHSrG/hD5hKITMbS erFlrd7/nVwE/70XmGJMEoINJ5lnfq4FFMl8wFlHwGb8kU7in2AWev94t0qqQ7QY05mw hIJwQ3+B4zRSfudqfzlDXR7iwu8GphyrhPsXXJqlWwbkNxxkJzO8lB0T91Y4Vqo2aAUI BZ9NxMcd0zuxXcgB345BtBstD9WsrzfYroRhutumDoGNAjsXxDiMk/VODjYVazLif8Ei kH3DafvJvrkIfcJ9fzlhcbI8qtKleZggfdsNUyyq6ncCAwDoNMtOgcjn6yxOpHFl6UdH h5PA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.234.104 with SMTP id ud8mr27739649pbc.163.1339432453936; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.87.136 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:34:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: nagarjuna vempati To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Issue with KGDB setup. System freezes when it enters ddb X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:34:14 -0000 Hello, Can someone plese help me understand what is the problem? After fresh disk installation of freeBSD9.0 AMD64 from disk, I copied /usr/src/sys/am64/conf/GENERIC to KGDBKERNEL and added following lines to the file options GDB options DDB options KDB_UNATTENDED options BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER options ALT_BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER After this I rebuilt the Kernel and installed as below. make buildworld make buildkernel kernconf=KGDBKERNEL make installkernel kernconf=KGDBKERNEL Reboot into single user mode. mergemaster -p make installworld mergemaster Reboot. After this to setup KGDB I am using following document as my reference. http://chetanbl.blogspot.com/ To break into ddb I am trying issue sysctl debug.kdb.enter=1. Then the system becomes unresponsive. Also, I tried to enter ddb at booting stage by issuing boot -d command. Even then system becomes unresponsive. I need to solve this problem ASAP. Can someone helpme? Thanks, Nag From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 19:14:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA32A106568E for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:14:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 386EC8FC08 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:14:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so4792809bkv.13 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:14:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=gaE9EZwsLlNxSsNyAZu4u0WFjIsVm9FG3ACSxWODcnU=; b=bfJVAp0BW5OhVM0VLtoTKSsOQ1aWQ9xD1ILFluaA6vCDOW2VLKE5IutZM/aJECSAhK Jc5Yw9tOE4EocLdiN+ps98LV6ssWHr5RJpAw7h37MESy7i7nArNkSYZ/HDhhIMSx608+ wlvWj9Tfqg1A7/ocTxvbGIz1Bbp0fIrGmrUSrA9WAzXWCS9aIGQw1EozQWqN8L+2X8Vk 9lGMXs+sIdoSpE7OTTWKMJ46RstXmUxUE9eK8YdnMXcTrHs4njsEmsYwdJTNxL4SZZ21 qNW3wQz5POqXF2+Mn7He+JwBBaRK97xU/IKzR8QeQ9coqTIMLPHUOrH/ttkrbGqjVx0C TgBw== Received: by 10.205.129.8 with SMTP id hg8mr10730808bkc.25.1339442082991; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h18sm17639734bkh.8.2012.06.11.12.14.38 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120611.191441.429.6@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:14:41 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Getting rid of RC2 cipher X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:14:44 -0000 # From: = '/usr/src/crypto/openssl/CHANGES.SSLeay'=0D=0ANO_RC2=3DYES=0D=0A=0D=0ADoesn't = work (after build and install):=0D=0A# /usr/bin/openssl ciphers -v | grep = -i rc=0D=0ARC2-CBC-MD5 SSLv2 Kx=3DRSA Au=3DRSA = Enc=3DRC2(128) Mac=3DMD5=0D=0ARC4-SHA SSLv3 Kx=3DRSA = Au=3DRSA Enc=3DRC4(128) Mac=3DSHA1=0D=0ARC4-MD5 SSLv3 = Kx=3DRSA Au=3DRSA Enc=3DRC4(128) Mac=3DMD5=0D=0ARC4-MD5 = SSLv2 Kx=3DRSA Au=3DRSA Enc=3DRC4(128) = Mac=3DMD5=0D=0AEXP-RC2-CBC-MD5 SSLv3 Kx=3DRSA(512) Au=3DRSA = Enc=3DRC2(40) Mac=3DMD5 export=0D=0AEXP-RC2-CBC-MD5 SSLv2 = Kx=3DRSA(512) Au=3DRSA Enc=3DRC2(40) Mac=3DMD5 = export=0D=0AEXP-RC4-MD5 SSLv3 Kx=3DRSA(512) Au=3DRSA = Enc=3DRC4(40) Mac=3DMD5 export=0D=0AEXP-RC4-MD5 SSLv2 = Kx=3DRSA(512) Au=3DRSA Enc=3DRC4(40) Mac=3DMD5 = export=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 21:26:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A47106566B; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:26:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe01.c2i.net [212.247.154.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8768FC1B; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:26:13 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe01.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 287618206; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:26:12 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:25:41 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@ =?iso-8859-1?q?d2+AyewRX=7DmAm=3BYp=0A=09=7CU=5B?=@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y> =?iso-8859-1?q?Y=7Dk1C4TfysrsUI=0A=09-=25GU9V5=5DiUZF=26nRn9mJ=27=3F=26?=>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206112325.41058.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Bernhard Froehlich Subject: Re: VirtualBox on FreeBSD is looking for you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:26:14 -0000 On Sunday 10 June 2012 08:55:52 Bernhard Froehlich wrote: > - USB support (needs fixing) Hi, If questions arise I can answer them and give advice with regard to libusb in baseport and the USB FS interface. I've been somewhat involved fixing the USB support for VirtualBox under FreeBSD last time, and I think the VirtualBox team did a minor mistake from the beginning and that was to use the USB FS IOCTL interface directly, instead of using the USB library from baseport. Anyway, that works too as long as you understand a bit of USB :-) Currently there are some issues. One of them is that certain functionality is only available as root, like detaching kernel drivers and such. I'm not sure what the best way forward is. Currently PRIV_DRIVER is used for alot in USB, and VirtualBox needs that to function properly currently with regard to USB. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 22:21:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A661065676 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:21:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bfalk_bsd@brandonfa.lk) Received: from mail-qa0-f49.google.com (mail-qa0-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355F08FC1F for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:21:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabj40 with SMTP id j40so2885213qab.15 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:21:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brandonfa.lk; s=google; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0M1ofSk0i4BCQcidPSBi9w7/42sZbeMUCTzRkSm2INs=; b=RA8UFLoM/rfiwus4DtDxEJz7CDpJIPY8KzvcUF0Ltgy6D/Aj7gX7yFHa/Imu1X0lMv GFRI55LIEJOrbRhwGmlZ4IwcjW4BzbPv/efDD4P/AgjshWs3BkWksO/dOP/j4W7vehcP ZLr2iQJ4x+2ZgJrsXCJHn/FFjdec+nw6IjpX0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=0M1ofSk0i4BCQcidPSBi9w7/42sZbeMUCTzRkSm2INs=; b=Yu7C+f6sHbf2zIQWshnJyRJ5sxnjaqWNR86UuP7EC7NG9ric2D5P0ps0JapSksEBw7 9j5OQDIVAIOCW2YOxbU3Z6uNIDWst0g1UOoRCis7tg7efpO7ADzg+YMfjIFdiVWv7Nhm TKovtfxozj/45rT6EbzH/pZCfEUZWqGSXwzY165IytcWRKqT/8gL1bKr7dI2XPuKyEsT gn49dgbD772bqj8EwEHjCAdgo2oS+pWu2v4WW220ou4iMspFuFzLAoQxnqvFIhILebpF x2xUjXXq8Y/PPJsNGR9hhuSNfqSKPNamRlXKINsUUrxQv21kLYKTW6Rpbgqyjsei/fQo TIvA== Received: by 10.224.107.195 with SMTP id c3mr16368754qap.23.1339453314468; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.64] (wsip-184-183-177-134.dc.dc.cox.net. [184.183.177.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e2sm31214170qap.15.2012.06.11.15.21.53 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:21:50 -0400 From: Brandon Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkPOtRpdke3V7xz7XZmKzcPEq9cin5IYxALevERL8SjlkidOoTwHrx53sg6NWmFPbnPvenD Subject: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:21:55 -0000 Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. -Brandon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 22:51:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C2E1065672 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:51:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6E48FC12 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:51:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so9503131obc.13 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UDCbo/gb1nhGhNxew6ZhrmHI1uEnLtnS2LeyV6PErYc=; b=WwIS2AwLbgfHH3kAl1ZtTVXzEehnA2poLNsHPJYV7ip0bu3TciZvh+evNmVSAV0yst Gk90ZSx+jloKmnYhECyC06WikpZ3t6YWCUugR+eDxUz27CeBOjttBnMWULYEmGpF7zrO eJl2ScmHy/s/7WFwcYX+r3Ojawt21kHdF57pCt00fh4OX4YuNHFoIKuASBZ7csvKcxxS EaeA8IlAa+1yrI2aMYIyP9OTsLSx4tVb3q7Fw+DN0jE5t4g/md7HV/WC9wpwoQ0Vq7nC OPze8h2xC5cyLr/jtOlMnnY6FAPO7uPq3JIXpaX4Km/zKphgHDrGa4Pfmi9gd5IDKZ6q KdfA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.154.67 with SMTP id vm3mr18085215obb.57.1339455110888; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:51:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:51:50 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Brandon Falk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:51:51 -0000 On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: > Greetings, > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long > to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, > literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about > 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot > process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty > much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic > kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process > that could be parallelized or eliminated. > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 22:58:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76BDC106566B for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:58:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6088FC0A for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:58:03 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=+zdq0Pv7Fh7VS6bGHgbb6WBbSmEdV/XlTq4ODSoeBuE=; b=gvR0YPkKWKEeXmRPRWE5AR27aKpS8ueGS8fJOibKh4NGSMn86pGHq/mV7QnSQWCPw4TFI4gfjTyqT4L/0vIFMKuS5BUP1rda52w/wihNOklON/kmM9WBT/Na0poDh16G; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SeDYf-0006TF-7L; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:58:02 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1339455475-26372-26371/5/67; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:57:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:57:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Brandon Falk Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:58:03 -0000 They have a lot of manpower and can spend a lot of time replacing the boot subsystems and all startup scripts every 2 releases. For FreeBSD it's not a big issue as most people don't reboot often. If it's an itch you want to scratch you're more than welcome to look into it; that seems to be the way a lot of little things get worked on around here. Unfortunately the new systemd rc system (which is pretty awful) has issues of its own including the inability to handle /usr on a separate filesystem under certain situations.[1] I honestly prefer the freebsd startup system and rc.conf. Speed isn't an issue for me right now. It's even less obvious if you just use an SSD for /. [1] http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 22:59:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4DFE1065670 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:59:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nonesuch@longcount.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F508FC15 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:59:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so2814832qcs.13 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:59:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=BZDFO4wmbpnVL20GAvtd54c/c527wsvC0X3I0alSiUo=; b=G2CNhL241ouVSO6zG49gq7jf7Dql5RU2bXEp+FyZO3yEchKwQQZv041VzsrJBVSP+p P8Mx+i2LQinzer1uYUNPAnMhgTs5RrOXWe4LCeXk0AeoMiNYui8zFOh6NkBrjvfUpsUE NPzk3B69UmjJi6mGSvEH4h+eSTqNrDX+OpNiD4ejAZOzCUEiRXoAddXKVzpsOjR8eLMG 9DKmbIVpDkce4MjoIMAJdPdIGg3GYVN6JC1295uYWb6+xWQzY+5i2RUmfrRtvwKpQWmP apmYQuytJAWdVNnbye7miMohJTvO8eAiwlmt07q8T1OVNUyEG+x2T/OkPSJk41CTCwC4 5ptw== Received: by 10.229.134.212 with SMTP id k20mr1108539qct.83.1339455568821; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [97.233.14.14] (14.sub-97-233-14.myvzw.com. [97.233.14.14]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gy9sm31402232qab.22.2012.06.11.15.59.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> In-Reply-To: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Message-Id: <972AB73F-A761-47E2-A8A3-42C85FDBEE72@longcount.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: Mark Saad Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:59:21 -0400 To: Brandon Falk X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn/LOVB93qAIkRSfkjgWz5JyPy8+IAhUoolvwSqr1DUN77W6EdFB6hfZUEonSYcS8/LRFcX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:59:29 -0000 On Jun 11, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: > Greetings, >=20 > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so lo= ng to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, liter= ally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-2= 0 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot proces= s, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much c= onsists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. T= here must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that coul= d be parallelized or eliminated. >=20 > Anyone have any suggestions? >=20 > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >=20 > -Brandon > _____________________________________________ In amd64 builds the system checks it's ram twice . Early in the boot phase u= sing a slower method , and latter using a faster SMAP method. In 9.0-RELEASE= you can disable the early men check via a loader tunable , here is a snip i= t from the release notes on 9.0 . It should also be mfc'd to 7, and 8 stable= .=20 [amd64, i386, pc98] A loader(8) tunable hw.memtest.tests has been added. Thi= s controls whether to perform memory testing at boot time or not. The defaul= t value is 1 (perform a memory test).[r224516] The next it is switch to a modular kernel this speeds up boot times be omit= ting kernel items you do not need, you can also do this via with a static ke= rnel by removing / disabling unused options . Look at the Archives for ha ha= ckers there is a ton of info on this.=20 Most of the rest of the boot up time is via init / rc'ng starting an config= uring things . Right now this is not parallel-ized out the box . Pc-bsd has s= omething called fastboot ? I am am not sure how it works but it improves loa= d time in their setups . See http://lists.pcbsd.org/pipermail/testing/2012-J= anuary/006358.html Other then that, there are some other things being developed check the Free= BSD wiki for a rc.ng management daemon frs or fsr ?=20 --- Mark saad | mark.saad@longcount.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 23:01:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4BC1065670 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:01:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [216.218.240.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6818FC2A for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:01:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5BMd23Z021392 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id q5BMcuQf021389 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:38:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:38:56 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:01:43 -0000 Friends, I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 01:16:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A69C106564A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 01:16:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3CF8FC0C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 01:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id DFC9056205; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:16:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:16:45 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: John Kozubik Message-ID: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 01:26:07 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 01:16:53 -0000 On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 03:38:56PM -0700, John Kozubik wrote: > I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 > listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? Although I am not on re@, AFAIK the only schedule that is on the table is the one for 9.1. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 05:37:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CAE106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:37:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE9F8FC0C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:37:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id IAA05390; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:37:35 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SeJnK-0006vZ-P4; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:37:34 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD6D59E.5040809@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:37:34 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: perryh@pluto.rain.com References: <4FD490D5.1070207@FreeBSD.org> <20120610152721.3b627896@fabiankeil.de> <4FD4CD8B.1080803@FreeBSD.org> <4FD5109D.5090107@FreeBSD.org> <4fd5cd2b.SwlSDIgKvkib2N6C%perryh@pluto.rain.com> In-Reply-To: <4fd5cd2b.SwlSDIgKvkib2N6C%perryh@pluto.rain.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, rysto32@gmail.com, freebsd-listen@fabiankeil.de Subject: Re: decoding of multi-byte nops in dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:37:45 -0000 on 11/06/2012 06:49 perryh@pluto.rain.com said the following: > Sounds as if DTrace could use an improvement to recognize and handle > the tail call optimization, maybe something along the lines of: > > If a function has no otherwise-determined return probe > and it contains a jump to the entry point of another function > then it inherits that other function's return probe. > > I'd expect that to handle cases like > > int bar(...) > { > ... > return baz; > } > > int foo(...) > { > ... > return bar(...); > } > > (although probably not cases where the return in foo calls a > function pointer). And no, I am not volunteering to add it -- > ENOTIME :( (Open)Solaris fdt code for sparc already handles this case (last instruction in a function being a call), but not any other implementation. Not sure if that is for technical reasons or if nobody just bothered. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 06:23:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D05106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:23:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4498FC08 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:23:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id JAA05572; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:23:35 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SeKVq-0006y3-NQ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:23:34 +0300 Message-ID: <4FD6E065.6040601@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:23:33 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120503 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brandon Falk References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> In-Reply-To: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:23:38 -0000 on 12/06/2012 01:21 Brandon Falk said the following: > Greetings, > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to > boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes > 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm > not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux > somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a > shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be > some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized > or eliminated. > > Anyone have any suggestions? Do you have a breakdown of the boot time between pre-loader, loader, kernel and rc stages? > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. Ditto. :-) -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 07:27:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C41A106566C; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:27:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe02.c2i.net [212.247.154.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46D18FC16; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:27:07 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe02.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 285982378; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:27:05 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 09:26:33 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <4FD6E065.6040601@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FD6E065.6040601@FreeBSD.org> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206120926.33947.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Brandon Falk , Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:27:08 -0000 On Tuesday 12 June 2012 08:23:33 Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 12/06/2012 01:21 Brandon Falk said the following: > > Greetings, > > > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so > > long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, > > literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes > > about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in > > the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install > > I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still > > has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the > > FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > Do you have a breakdown of the boot time between pre-loader, loader, kernel > and rc stages? > > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > > Ditto. :-) BTW: Booting over USB is slow because many small chuncks of data is read instead of a few big chunks when loading the kernel and modules at the loader time. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 14:51:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E541065675 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDE78FC0C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:51:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so3996368yhg.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:51:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=reply-to:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index:content-language; bh=Z67112VRND5DYE3nMVQ3Dknxwb7/yeLA2DoCT35uWB8=; b=o61l7YGvx/h4feA3Z5AM0JlqHJLF0r3fge9L9F21rrYf3b9C3VbkU3JH6dKHrtUcT+ ovpARGIOI2NZGA/Cm/u2KhycW6gFjOyS1oHV4OQEAg1WilX7RHtWb+xPQIk/Lrp/wShC 35wozA7EFsq2aEXDOjH+lUjejMTICKHcBJxGBlVbb/FB4mQL0a6rjGvnZi6OwsCifRZx PTjZ+rg+wYNoSQpLga8hjBTSDI9ch13JRL2ciZ5cl3WClv1NF3aHd2oy9O/rxg6i6cQh YG/cf7n2RbkyV5OlkRChoIA8rcOeUlAUmvjvU2lApTS1W/t5GHEpBygEDY1r2kkgohU2 jf7w== Received: by 10.236.153.8 with SMTP id e8mr27959387yhk.80.1339512679506; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rimwks1w7x64 ([2001:470:1f15:8e:71c2:99a2:88b2:ea1f]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w6sm68190937yhi.22.2012.06.12.07.51.17 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:51:18 -0700 (PDT) From: rozhuk.im@gmail.com To: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:51:12 +0900 Message-ID: <4fd75766.8688ec0a.40cb.ffffe7e9@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1Iqs+b19hEWGxFSkGB5H1qWh0u/Q== Content-Language: ru Subject: Need Help: build the kernel with -Os X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Rozhuk.IM@gmail.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:51:20 -0000 Hi, All! I've fixed many warnings: "warning: 'XXX' may be used uninitialized in this function" PR: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=168979 But there are still warning: "- param large-function-growth limit reached [-Winline]" and sometimes the compiler just crashes with errors: {standard input}: Assembler messages: {standard input}: 388636: Warning: end of file not at end of a line; newline inserted cc: Internal error: Killed: 9 (program cc1) Please submit a full bug report. See for instructions. *** Error code 1 Please help! PS: generic, amd64; custom, amd64; custom, arm. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 14:52:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD11106564A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:52:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6FA8FC21 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:52:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id MRnU1j0021afHeLA7SrdHJ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:51:37 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id MSrc1j01H4NgCEG8dSrdyY; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:51:37 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5CEpYjZ032108; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:51:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Wojciech Puchar In-Reply-To: References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:51:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wired memory - again! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:52:43 -0000 On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 22:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > First, all memory allocated by UMA and consequently malloc(9) is > > wired. In other words, almost all memory used by kernel is accounted > > as wired. > > > yes i understand this. still i found no way how to find out what allocated > that much. > > > > Second, the buffer cache wires the pages which are inserted into VMIO > > buffers. So your observation is basically right, cached buffers means > > what are exactly "VMIO" buffers. i understand that page must be wired WHEN > doing I/O. > But i have too much wired memory even when doing no I/O at all. I agree, this is The Big Question for me. Why does the system keep wired writable mappings of the buffers in kva after the IO operations are completed? If it did not do so, it would fix the instruction-cache-disabled bug that kills performance on VIVT cache architectures (arm and mips) and it would reduce the amount of wired memory (that apparently doesn't need to be wired, unless I've missed the implications of a previous reply in this thread). -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 15:17:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B938E1065672 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:17:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6184D8FC0C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:17:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so4033882yhg.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:17:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=lAH87yNp9SodcT9RKb0WO1hJe3mwzn02UNI2qFTlPRM=; b=SX728qbIuvbp1JgMTv6RR293oYfq2wWGZYY/LtmEnKjjhrYAhJ7Ude2ceOKBqYEJrZ iUPRZ6jDdCAjVkgLj6A6OXfmln4/yyVvZNEuaLoDE5W2vEOD5IZBvqt7ySxuaPjGZSdj V4t1Am1zXn7a02dBLPJu1l2mD2YpJTYA7mgxI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=lAH87yNp9SodcT9RKb0WO1hJe3mwzn02UNI2qFTlPRM=; b=g8mH+tKcu2j8K1Pc9L9a8UkliXP4RetKbCF2osdQTDccHgwkxW1h8OG2bj34/bXxij o4a4TC4D+beFeDj/Om43eNC6j875qQ5huGAMzvLLR8P03gJnOJT+IyElx/Ed/SH/Z+32 5sIsF9Oo9ypZYFNkM62eHj6oXf3cj9ReFU3BqEzb0Yw1Sl+JCalTkRW8C1WpIkCDIu/k 6P8eJ4fY1f65dZQx8yET5xE+YpaRjw2LqVWUfCHc67PF+Hbl2jagIo00ZAum0Q3PY/b6 GyqWAPuJJ24gtcLgx8Yrs52nAacyP4PZBp8zt21gvqjWJmnovzkdFGsl9DGpwc7Ud8sF OuuQ== Received: by 10.236.179.106 with SMTP id g70mr27684538yhm.53.1339514270965; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (75-128-120-86.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com. [75.128.120.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i67sm68411030yhh.21.2012.06.12.08.17.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5CFHlYH047348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:17:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5CFHlOL047337; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:17:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:17:47 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Mark Linimon Message-ID: <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl16/+i5/y6KhwoH5gwiC9ORl3U/htTGbJY/a4NH+C0MGIhGGLxDEjsSq4G5RJFY0w3EOsK Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:17:51 -0000 On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 08:16:45PM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 03:38:56PM -0700, John Kozubik wrote: > > I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 > > listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? > > Although I am not on re@, AFAIK the only schedule that is on the table > is the one for 9.1. > Release 8.3 (April 2012) has it really been 6 months yet! -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 18:40:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799941065674 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:40:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [216.218.240.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F20E8FC08 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:40:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5CIerxE031433; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id q5CIemHc031430; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 11:40:48 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: Jason Hellenthal In-Reply-To: <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> Message-ID: References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:40:56 -0000 On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >>> I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 >>> listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? >> >> Although I am not on re@, AFAIK the only schedule that is on the table >> is the one for 9.1. >> > > Release 8.3 (April 2012) has it really been 6 months yet! We (rsync.net) are deploying our new ZFS based platform on FreeBSD. This is a platform that needs to be live in just a few weeks.[1] We only run release software. Further, I don't think anyone will fault us for steering clear of 9.0-RELEASE. 9.1 is probably four months away. So our choices are 8, which has no roadmap, and 9 which doesn't exist. On the one hand, we've made this choice before, when we invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into equipment, code, training, etc. for 6.4. We've successfully amortized this investment over the past 4-5 years, but not without a lot of pain. The past 24 months has been a lot of custom work, backporting drivers, etc. We don't want to repeat this. On the other hand, we're not going to debut a new platform, to customers all over the world, on 9.0. So ... how about a kickstarter, since that's all the rage ? What would a reasonable total be, donated to the FreeBSD foundation, that would ensure the maintenance of the 8.x branch for another 3 years (say, Dec 31, 2015) and out to (to pick an arbitrary number) 8.10 ? Just a thought ... [1] After years of evaluation and testing, spanning 6.x - 8.x. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 20:30:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9CE106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:30:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrey@zonov.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62B38FC1C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:30:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so886153lbo.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:30:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=RQVP3zGTQVRCimjQN8fugAicEby7N1IZY3I8WP7Hql4=; b=LAxmEAcWAq1r29jqtStMQz+W9Pm+UzQ8y38/m8zHjtZVA4xm/aIBvhVs1UwtIK7in8 +YbWz0mJPKaUja8spTod5PrB/wfItWSfsz+Z4TatGsgDh2d8dCC8V8SXoPQwe3bxerxw G0q3PCPscSWXYJtb4J3G8ZUzv1jtG3SmKVEvry0pnHBobgcFAmMq/73XJYEZvFakhit8 N9QRTuDUc0z4l2zC9X0JSltIchhIXmwEN/ZeppR4zGTn4WFAX43jfTrKe0phKeWbpST9 dz4rpLtP/yK82rTRmRU5cnyL5vC9EXNhrrn41hTS5xnNG+nDPu3pniHsaHWEeiFPzABT TCiA== Received: by 10.152.147.33 with SMTP id th1mr22299124lab.9.1339533015829; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zont-osx.local (ppp95-165-137-174.pppoe.spdop.ru. [95.165.137.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id lv13sm30908337lab.8.2012.06.12.13.30.09 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD7A6D0.1080002@zonov.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:30:08 +0400 From: Andrey Zonov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric van Gyzen References: <4FC6748B.5030708@zonov.org> <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> <4FD60FC2.3060206@vangyzen.net> In-Reply-To: <4FD60FC2.3060206@vangyzen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnnasoFQemilVzfKfmIxA8uMNHuNpcFVJ0SU3p2EnuLqS0dby9cqnyJeVUKJ5nF6HGsJQnA Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usertime stale at about 371k seconds X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:30:18 -0000 On 6/11/12 7:33 PM, Eric van Gyzen wrote: > On 05/31/2012 02:34, Andrey Zonov wrote: >> On 5/30/12 11:27 PM, Andrey Zonov wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have long running process for which `ps -o usertime -p $pid' shows >>> always the same time - 6190:07.65, `ps -o cputime -p $pid' for the same >>> process continue to grow and now it's 21538:53.61. It looks like >>> overflow in resource usage code or something. >>> >> >> I reproduced that problem with attached program. I ran it with 23 >> threads on machine with 24 CPUs and after night I see this: >> >> $ ps -o usertime,time -p 24134 && sleep 60 && ps -o usertime,time -p >> 24134 >> USERTIME TIME >> 6351:24.74 14977:35.19 >> USERTIME TIME >> 6351:24.74 15000:34.53 >> >> Per thread user-time counts correct: >> >> $ ps -H -o usertime,time -p 24134 >> USERTIME TIME >> 0:00.00 0:00.00 >> 652:35.84 652:38.59 >> 652:34.75 652:37.97 >> 652:50.46 652:51.97 >> 652:38.93 652:43.08 >> 652:39.73 652:43.36 >> 652:44.09 652:47.36 >> 652:56.49 652:57.94 >> 652:51.84 652:54.41 >> 652:37.48 652:41.57 >> 652:36.61 652:40.90 >> 652:39.41 652:42.52 >> 653:03.72 653:06.72 >> 652:49.96 652:53.25 >> 652:45.92 652:49.03 >> 652:40.33 652:42.05 >> 652:46.53 652:49.31 >> 652:44.77 652:47.33 >> 653:00.54 653:02.24 >> 652:33.31 652:36.13 >> 652:51.03 652:52.91 >> 652:50.73 652:52.71 >> 652:41.32 652:44.64 >> 652:59.86 653:03.25 >> >> (kgdb) p $my->p_rux >> $14 = {rux_runtime = 2171421985692826, rux_uticks = 114886093, >> rux_sticks = 8353, rux_iticks = 0, rux_uu = 381084736784, rux_su = >> 65773652, rux_tu = 904571706136} >> (kgdb) p $my->p_rux >> $15 = {rux_runtime = 2191831516209186, rux_uticks = 115966087, >> rux_sticks = 8444, rux_iticks = 0, rux_uu = 381084736784, rux_su = >> 66458587, rux_tu = 913099969825} >> >> As you can see rux_uu stale, but rux_uticks still ticks. I think the >> problem is in calcru1(). This expression >> >> uu = (tu * ut) / tt >> >> overflows. >> >> I applied the following patch: >> >> Index: /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_resource.c >> =================================================================== >> --- /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_resource.c (revision 235394) >> +++ /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_resource.c (working copy) >> @@ -885,7 +885,7 @@ calcru1(struct proc *p, struct rusage_ext *ruxp, s >> struct timeval *sp) >> { >> /* {user, system, interrupt, total} {ticks, usec}: */ >> - uint64_t ut, uu, st, su, it, tt, tu; >> + uint64_t ut, uu, st, su, it, tt, tu, tmp; >> >> ut = ruxp->rux_uticks; >> st = ruxp->rux_sticks; >> @@ -909,10 +909,20 @@ calcru1(struct proc *p, struct rusage_ext *ruxp, s >> * The normal case, time increased. >> * Enforce monotonicity of bucketed numbers. >> */ >> - uu = (tu * ut) / tt; >> + if (ut == 0) >> + uu = 0; >> + else { >> + tmp = tt / ut; >> + uu = tmp ? tu / tmp : 0; >> + } >> if (uu < ruxp->rux_uu) >> uu = ruxp->rux_uu; >> >> and now ran test again. > > This looks related to, and possibly identical to, PR kern/76972: > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=76972 Yes, that's the same. > > If you filed a PR, please submit a follow-up to both PRs so they > reference each other. No, I didn't. I want to fix the problem not just file a PR and wait for years. > > Thanks, > Thank you. > Eric -- Andrey Zonov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 20:36:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A48F1065670 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mattjeet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com (mail-wi0-f170.google.com [209.85.212.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974588FC0A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:36:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhm6 with SMTP id hm6so4762375wib.1 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZLYr1HksG20iZ8S/eN+VPlbp2OysIb0/zwvoyq2QErw=; b=kIj3yYU30DWyVwRP1uC+1qeeu5jYe9t0An830sWIxjijfV+DawHAg04cQp86hcsfJo cHvmA7RTVbit09ubNdVUVclVMo02z26YH5ycWLuSIdbKhX3WcAg6n6dJ/JJNliBTOWC0 qykPJA1UjWEM5FAF9pDHcolI2xeelKKZitmE6/C/xIQZaqy6JT3bmmRQosWWTfXniAdl PlhWCYGO5Fh3OsvdT8mK0gNyJyPT9c6OoTl5C4r6ogzkaS5QzXg2O9HW9oT0nGXx47gr SpFoVNBnGREK/EE0J+MA32Fe4RlD1OMLoT7KETjpM+pTOdSJu6b5w7gE/nAfCIie1cKD f6dQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.7.133 with SMTP id j5mr32192452wia.14.1339533407702; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mattjeet@gmail.com Received: by 10.223.155.130 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:36:47 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hLgAQj2-40NVDdDWnHxbsY20e28 Message-ID: From: Matt Olander To: John Kozubik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: matt@ixsystems.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:36:55 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM, John Kozubik wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > >>>> I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 >>>> listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? >>> >>> >>> Although I am not on re@, AFAIK the only schedule that is on the table >>> is the one for 9.1. >>> >> >> Release 8.3 (April 2012) has it really been 6 months yet! > > > > We (rsync.net) are deploying our new ZFS based platform on FreeBSD. =A0Th= is is > a platform that needs to be live in just a few weeks.[1] > > We only run release software. =A0Further, I don't think anyone will fault= us > for steering clear of 9.0-RELEASE. =A09.1 is probably four months away. > > So our choices are 8, which has no roadmap, and 9 which doesn't exist. > > On the one hand, we've made this choice before, when we invested hundreds= of > thousands of dollars into equipment, code, training, etc. for 6.4. We've > successfully amortized this investment over the past 4-5 years, but not > without a lot of pain. =A0The past 24 months has been a lot of custom wor= k, > backporting drivers, etc. =A0We don't want to repeat this. > > On the other hand, we're not going to debut a new platform, to customers = all > over the world, on 9.0. > > So ... how about a kickstarter, since that's all the rage ? =A0What would= a > reasonable total be, donated to the FreeBSD foundation, that would ensure > the maintenance of the 8.x branch for another 3 years (say, Dec 31, 2015) > and out to (to pick an arbitrary number) 8.10 ? > > Just a thought ... > > > [1] After years of evaluation and testing, spanning 6.x - 8.x. Hey John, So, we've (iXsystems, PC-BSD) been kicking around the idea of a Long Term Supported version of "PC-BSD Server", which is really FreeBSD with some PC-BSD cli tools and perhaps maintaining our own binary update server. While we were thinking of doing this with 9.1, we can consider 8.x. I'll speak with Kris Moore and the rest of the team and find out what it will take. We've hired a contract release engineer with this task in mind but you're right, most of the work will be in backporting. I like the idea of coming up with a number it would take and a plan to do it. We're not the only people with the problem, obviously. Cheers, -matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 20:45:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C074106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:45:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6088FC15 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:45:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5CKj9a0033142; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:45:09 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5CKj9DT002025; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:45:09 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5CKj8AH002024; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:45:08 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:45:08 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Ian Lepore Message-ID: <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="e2bLSPRkEYxxSNev" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wired memory - again! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:45:26 -0000 --e2bLSPRkEYxxSNev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 08:51:34AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 22:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > First, all memory allocated by UMA and consequently malloc(9) is > > > wired. In other words, almost all memory used by kernel is accounted > > > as wired. > > > > > yes i understand this. still i found no way how to find out what alloca= ted=20 > > that much. > >=20 > >=20 > > > Second, the buffer cache wires the pages which are inserted into VMIO > > > buffers. So your observation is basically right, cached buffers means > >=20 > > what are exactly "VMIO" buffers. i understand that page must be wired W= HEN=20 > > doing I/O. > > But i have too much wired memory even when doing no I/O at all. >=20 > I agree, this is The Big Question for me. Why does the system keep > wired writable mappings of the buffers in kva after the IO operations > are completed? =20 Read about buffer cache, e.g. in the Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD OS book. >=20 > If it did not do so, it would fix the instruction-cache-disabled bug > that kills performance on VIVT cache architectures (arm and mips) and it > would reduce the amount of wired memory (that apparently doesn't need to > be wired, unless I've missed the implications of a previous reply in > this thread). I have no idea what is the bug you are talking about. If my guess is right, and it specifically references unability of some processors to correctly handle several mappings of the same physical page into different virtual addresses due to cache tagging using virtual address instead of physical, then this is a hardware bug, not software. AFAIR, at least HP PA and MIPS have different instantiation of this problem. Our kernel uses multi-mapping quite often, and buffers is only one example. Also, why do you think that the pages entered into buffers shall not be wired, it is completely beyond my understanding. --e2bLSPRkEYxxSNev Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/XqlQACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4hfmQCgw2WXceltqeFrbY82uc618BzJ dtMAoPOXqmUsBncvW6A+QzJKX/bDOo6I =0UY6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --e2bLSPRkEYxxSNev-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 21:01:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6905F1065670 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:01:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrey@zonov.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62E58FC12 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:01:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so912605lbo.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=K1pVKbUtKfb2CJfLRPyeg5rMp2Wys5Xhp0RsFGKSvlY=; b=FWRs8OTrRSO5n/I1ENkGTWSpagGcFjQIZ/eZXEPSq8ZA+FRM+fmhtJ1offSpDFVwkp Dptj+67x6IvZuMnIxofcptUvD9R3TEg2JaaOROWquTZNqwYBE9RIuFlW+vcSOaqxps3b ZInvT1jMI6C1qP5CsEPbKim3WKr0lylB9C8Jy7JB6uqE+Elfr+LZD3Ne4e0Y9ywiUpKU iJQT97Zrrgunla7KE6LEaiAQWFIlfl3oM/UapV5K31RL7VJD5yupiqUQosqUJL9tSIBi piBh/N/K+UFu9DlS2R5BlWZQEFl5fp8bpJ79H5DfrKw83WFaKm6CuBv6X+ZCxOoJqCr4 yl3Q== Received: by 10.152.148.170 with SMTP id tt10mr21982040lab.48.1339534903773; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zont-osx.local (ppp95-165-137-174.pppoe.spdop.ru. [95.165.137.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gt19sm30990312lab.17.2012.06.12.14.01.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD7AE35.2090003@zonov.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:01:41 +0400 From: Andrey Zonov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FC6748B.5030708@zonov.org> <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> In-Reply-To: <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010109090108090405030906" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkjp0yBaE4oTUGz16W5stNyegHVYrmsEgRHsC7SVQ/jWYkedVCyhIly2M3c7cia+CcSRaIz Subject: Re: usertime stale at about 371k seconds X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:01:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010109090108090405030906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 5/31/12 11:34 AM, Andrey Zonov wrote: > On 5/30/12 11:27 PM, Andrey Zonov wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have long running process for which `ps -o usertime -p $pid' shows >> always the same time - 6190:07.65, `ps -o cputime -p $pid' for the same >> process continue to grow and now it's 21538:53.61. It looks like >> overflow in resource usage code or something. >> > > I reproduced that problem with attached program. I ran it with 23 > threads on machine with 24 CPUs and after night I see this: > > $ ps -o usertime,time -p 24134 && sleep 60 && ps -o usertime,time -p 24134 > USERTIME TIME > 6351:24.74 14977:35.19 > USERTIME TIME > 6351:24.74 15000:34.53 > > Per thread user-time counts correct: > > $ ps -H -o usertime,time -p 24134 > USERTIME TIME > 0:00.00 0:00.00 > 652:35.84 652:38.59 > 652:34.75 652:37.97 > 652:50.46 652:51.97 > 652:38.93 652:43.08 > 652:39.73 652:43.36 > 652:44.09 652:47.36 > 652:56.49 652:57.94 > 652:51.84 652:54.41 > 652:37.48 652:41.57 > 652:36.61 652:40.90 > 652:39.41 652:42.52 > 653:03.72 653:06.72 > 652:49.96 652:53.25 > 652:45.92 652:49.03 > 652:40.33 652:42.05 > 652:46.53 652:49.31 > 652:44.77 652:47.33 > 653:00.54 653:02.24 > 652:33.31 652:36.13 > 652:51.03 652:52.91 > 652:50.73 652:52.71 > 652:41.32 652:44.64 > 652:59.86 653:03.25 > > (kgdb) p $my->p_rux > $14 = {rux_runtime = 2171421985692826, rux_uticks = 114886093, > rux_sticks = 8353, rux_iticks = 0, rux_uu = 381084736784, rux_su = > 65773652, rux_tu = 904571706136} > (kgdb) p $my->p_rux > $15 = {rux_runtime = 2191831516209186, rux_uticks = 115966087, > rux_sticks = 8444, rux_iticks = 0, rux_uu = 381084736784, rux_su = > 66458587, rux_tu = 913099969825} > > As you can see rux_uu stale, but rux_uticks still ticks. I think the > problem is in calcru1(). This expression > > uu = (tu * ut) / tt > > overflows. > > I applied the following patch: > I've made some explorations and found that this expression '(uint64_t)a*(uint64_t)b/(uint64_t)c' can be replaced with this '(a/c)*b + (a%c)*(b/c) + (a%c)*(b%c)/c' and will be perfect for 0 2^32' please let me know. -- Andrey Zonov --------------010109090108090405030906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; x-mac-type="0"; x-mac-creator="0"; name="mul_div.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mul_div.patch" SW5kZXg6IHN5cy9rZXJuL2tlcm5fcmVzb3VyY2UuYwo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Ci0tLSBzeXMv a2Vybi9rZXJuX3Jlc291cmNlLmMJKHJldmlzaW9uIDIzNDYwMCkKKysrIHN5cy9rZXJuL2tl cm5fcmVzb3VyY2UuYwkod29ya2luZyBjb3B5KQpAQCAtODgwLDYgKzg4MCw4IEBAIHJ1ZmV0 Y2h0ZChzdHJ1Y3QgdGhyZWFkICp0ZCwgc3RydWN0IHJ1c2FnZSAqcnUpCiAJY2FsY3J1MShw LCAmdGQtPnRkX3J1eCwgJnJ1LT5ydV91dGltZSwgJnJ1LT5ydV9zdGltZSk7CiB9CiAKKyNk ZWZpbmUJbXVsX2RpdihhLCBiLCBjKQkoYS9jKSpiICsgKGElYykqKGIvYykgKyAoYSVjKSoo YiVjKS9jCisKIHN0YXRpYyB2b2lkCiBjYWxjcnUxKHN0cnVjdCBwcm9jICpwLCBzdHJ1Y3Qg cnVzYWdlX2V4dCAqcnV4cCwgc3RydWN0IHRpbWV2YWwgKnVwLAogICAgIHN0cnVjdCB0aW1l dmFsICpzcCkKQEAgLTkwOSwxMCArOTExLDEwIEBAIGNhbGNydTEoc3RydWN0IHByb2MgKnAs IHN0cnVjdCBydXNhZ2VfZXh0ICpydXhwLCBzCiAJCSAqIFRoZSBub3JtYWwgY2FzZSwgdGlt ZSBpbmNyZWFzZWQuCiAJCSAqIEVuZm9yY2UgbW9ub3RvbmljaXR5IG9mIGJ1Y2tldGVkIG51 bWJlcnMuCiAJCSAqLwotCQl1dSA9ICh0dSAqIHV0KSAvIHR0OworCQl1dSA9IG11bF9kaXYo dHUsIHV0LCB0dCk7CiAJCWlmICh1dSA8IHJ1eHAtPnJ1eF91dSkKIAkJCXV1ID0gcnV4cC0+ cnV4X3V1OwotCQlzdSA9ICh0dSAqIHN0KSAvIHR0OworCQlzdSA9IG11bF9kaXYodHUsIHN0 LCB0dCk7CiAJCWlmIChzdSA8IHJ1eHAtPnJ1eF9zdSkKIAkJCXN1ID0gcnV4cC0+cnV4X3N1 OwogCX0gZWxzZSBpZiAodHUgKyAzID4gcnV4cC0+cnV4X3R1IHx8IDEwMSAqIHR1ID4gMTAw ICogcnV4cC0+cnV4X3R1KSB7CkBAIC05NDEsOCArOTQzLDggQEAgY2FsY3J1MShzdHJ1Y3Qg cHJvYyAqcCwgc3RydWN0IHJ1c2FnZV9leHQgKnJ1eHAsIHMKIAkJICAgICJ0byAlanUgdXNl YyBmb3IgcGlkICVkICglcylcbiIsCiAJCSAgICAodWludG1heF90KXJ1eHAtPnJ1eF90dSwg KHVpbnRtYXhfdCl0dSwKIAkJICAgIHAtPnBfcGlkLCBwLT5wX2NvbW0pOwotCQl1dSA9ICh0 dSAqIHV0KSAvIHR0OwotCQlzdSA9ICh0dSAqIHN0KSAvIHR0OworCQl1dSA9IG11bF9kaXYo dHUsIHV0LCB0dCk7CisJCXN1ID0gbXVsX2Rpdih0dSwgc3QsIHR0KTsKIAl9CiAKIAlydXhw LT5ydXhfdXUgPSB1dTsK --------------010109090108090405030906-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 21:46:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1433610657C5 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:46:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrey@zonov.org) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757578FC15 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:46:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by laai10 with SMTP id i10so4782875laa.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:46:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=yKz5YZ73bdZqFEVORDCTZV6zlKImQVEIEhUgYMgSdKQ=; b=czN5ZWbOWeikCS6jqwlncl5s0/nFyhBks3J/jPb2A0O5yoIw5m3FYJ007JKZtPvza6 xhCVIq0vMuTTseGeUdOhL/Jc10v4u8gIKa1OjLOiIf++/3J5tiuz/U8VqyZk42WgLXv2 2PvdyXVMU+91mRdpqFPsIW6F+uXj+VKH+nonSCo+1203n51hous0tiuGWqhdJgq4j1LC XTRTXZYAePgVMthhhKUhpxQxHiqWarZ1ktRIIgJzUB4emICJiFcNZnmMWzDOeP+qE2aQ A71P+Hmw0WOOXrsTJasS8G5wLSygfkSG/xVr1LUQoJoaLC+cVWIDsvWijnMQbu9WHnN6 WFmQ== Received: by 10.112.42.225 with SMTP id r1mr5279133lbl.102.1339537576311; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zont-osx.local (ppp95-165-137-174.pppoe.spdop.ru. [95.165.137.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h9sm1563606lbi.9.2012.06.12.14.46.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD7B8A5.9020104@zonov.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:46:13 +0400 From: Andrey Zonov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <4FC6748B.5030708@zonov.org> <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> <4FD60FC2.3060206@vangyzen.net> <4FD7A6D0.1080002@zonov.org> <20120612212129.GA11622@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120612212129.GA11622@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkRnRDuX7/tYoNfaQE+6hd3E200H9tI4N2IIYVFKMasDE1H8fWMh3hAXqDBf7kI8J1NRJd5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Eric van Gyzen Subject: Re: usertime stale at about 371k seconds X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:46:18 -0000 On 6/13/12 1:21 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:30:08AM +0400, Andrey Zonov wrote: >> No, I didn't. I want to fix the problem not just file a PR and wait >> for years. > > I do understand your frustration, but we have some new people interested > in picking up and handling src-related PRs, so I see the situation as > improving a bit. > Hi Mark, Please look at the date of PR/76972. More than 7 years past since it was filed and I can't see any progress. I've got more PRs (not only mine) that was filed but never touched for years. That's about frustration. On the other hand I can read and write in C, I can understand FreeBSD code and can solve some problems by myself. My patches go forward to maintainers. That works better than just file a PR and wait. -- Andrey Zonov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 21:21:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14E6106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:21:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FFA88FC1B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id EEA3B5620B; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:21:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:21:29 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Andrey Zonov Message-ID: <20120612212129.GA11622@lonesome.com> References: <4FC6748B.5030708@zonov.org> <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> <4FD60FC2.3060206@vangyzen.net> <4FD7A6D0.1080002@zonov.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FD7A6D0.1080002@zonov.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:40:54 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Eric van Gyzen Subject: Re: usertime stale at about 371k seconds X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:21:30 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:30:08AM +0400, Andrey Zonov wrote: > No, I didn't. I want to fix the problem not just file a PR and wait > for years. I do understand your frustration, but we have some new people interested in picking up and handling src-related PRs, so I see the situation as improving a bit. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 22:52:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37833106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:52:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [216.218.240.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA118FC14 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:52:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5CMqD67033563; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:52:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id q5CMq6w0033560; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:52:06 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: Matt Olander In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:52:21 -0000 Hi Matt, On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Matt Olander wrote: > So, we've (iXsystems, PC-BSD) been kicking around the idea of a Long > Term Supported version of "PC-BSD Server", which is really FreeBSD > with some PC-BSD cli tools and perhaps maintaining our own binary > update server. While we were thinking of doing this with 9.1, we can > consider 8.x. I'll speak with Kris Moore and the rest of the team and > find out what it will take. > > We've hired a contract release engineer with this task in mind but > you're right, most of the work will be in backporting. I like the idea > of coming up with a number it would take and a plan to do it. We're > not the only people with the problem, obviously. As a last resort, I would be interested in this, but I'm more interested in changing the culture of FreeBSD releases and long-term support in general. I think that: a) there are a lot more people out there, that we never hear from, that have these same problems, and another "4.x style" release would really help them. b) there are a lot of people out there that could be drawn into the FreeBSD ecosystem if another "4.x style" release existed. I would much rather donate $10k to a $100k kickstarter and have this be "official" than set aside $10k privately for unofficial maintenance, or a "fork". From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 23:20:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EFCD106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:20:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mattjeet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4F28FC1F for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:20:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so3189979qab.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=djE1freMRfhTKn0azbwO0JnLrii0H8LGNMkbjmcvCvI=; b=Jvjb2x/TbcscPiKS7v1StDOCJ3g9BoSGU4qniravuA0kyHU8gQw/q9OpGWPPj72HFA tZjefkb7fPX5YzJ27/aZJQgAghgo5TOTLYzM5m54SEilFkGseEvhA72DTjJOWv/RGOFo 9OgODXfN6OZTGmo4Tuo1s22ka4A12nxhSIHUci6+QXnuup7U+srEJnWoL81HK9Ep0PNF 4AJibVx1Z8gJ51oeOfRvkv3Fjss8De8kqTWJsRPcmVnTdiZ2oHYsHan3mfp+bxVw4uxA MUztag5KHEEr7KQB8Cy76PJpT5cEbD8EhVktNN6MVN5IdODF8xvm0ttWYPwij+PWHLLi Sgtg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.186.195 with SMTP id ct3mr23063210qab.24.1339543241135; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mattjeet@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.249.148 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:20:41 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: aRbpNHp_ntDMyZbzbzk7WB__XeI Message-ID: From: Matt Olander To: John Kozubik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: matt@ixsystems.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:20:47 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John Kozubik wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Matt Olander wrote: > >> So, we've (iXsystems, PC-BSD) been kicking around the idea of a Long >> Term Supported version of "PC-BSD Server", which is really FreeBSD >> with some PC-BSD cli tools and perhaps maintaining our own binary >> update server. While we were thinking of doing this with 9.1, we can >> consider 8.x. I'll speak with Kris Moore and the rest of the team and >> find out what it will take. >> >> We've hired a contract release engineer with this task in mind but >> you're right, most of the work will be in backporting. I like the idea >> of coming up with a number it would take and a plan to do it. We're >> not the only people with the problem, obviously. > > > > As a last resort, I would be interested in this, but I'm more interested in > changing the culture of FreeBSD releases and long-term support in general. > > I think that: > > a) there are a lot more people out there, that we never hear from, that have > these same problems, and another "4.x style" release would really help them. > > b) there are a lot of people out there that could be drawn into the FreeBSD > ecosystem if another "4.x style" release existed. > > I would much rather donate $10k to a $100k kickstarter and have this be > "official" than set aside $10k privately for unofficial maintenance, or a > "fork". I understand your position, John. FYI, PC-BSD is not a fork of FreeBSD. We have someone on re@ as well as security@ and several src and ports committers. We would backport to the official branch as necessary, since that's what we use to release PC-BSD. It's really irrelevant to me who manages the money. I'm just not sure we can start with 8.x rather than 9.x. However, this is pretty much the FreeBSD way. If we want something to change, we affect the change with our efforts. -matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 23:27:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A70106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:27:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mattjeet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f49.google.com (mail-qa0-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA0F8FC19 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabj40 with SMTP id j40so885024qab.15 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ga220ycSf4mlvDuCWnQ71A2J6BTDmOiAAGgMzAH+Olk=; b=mZq4I9bhgYV3eOnduoL1DMaGokxX4r93himhw9ax68HU5CXBIJUP8v+5o98xi3uoEB EKOe2kxvCecsDKUZYwDEN3ojdCx6d0fe4mfmeFseY4YREfAx8ZzJ31pwVqnA+jWgQT+d Lekl8zFss0YPMSuDLpsM8vdSIcmyZx3L3Kx3F2DVBUotn4ekEIj10zNiM2ieV9Vx+QJ6 WNHYkgwS6UUhPFqNZzg8tLxhSonkmPy/Qi9UOqF+/DmqotEXu6SQnzGOtBGsS9FySKfF pMv+KeGHsyLxtmXPcqYfcyNrvD0Et7/P5+WZbJHTz8EOMu4E/hGbOGnPDq+9d9alNt6G GaWA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.188.7 with SMTP id cy7mr23221843qab.34.1339543653101; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mattjeet@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.249.148 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:27:33 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: G09xJPyg1EYaQtFpG6QZUiYFsAQ Message-ID: From: Matt Olander To: John Kozubik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Foundation Board of Directors , Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: matt@ixsystems.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:27:34 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Matt Olander wrote: > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John Kozubik wrote: >> >> Hi Matt, >> >> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Matt Olander wrote: >> >>> So, we've (iXsystems, PC-BSD) been kicking around the idea of a Long >>> Term Supported version of "PC-BSD Server", which is really FreeBSD >>> with some PC-BSD cli tools and perhaps maintaining our own binary >>> update server. While we were thinking of doing this with 9.1, we can >>> consider 8.x. I'll speak with Kris Moore and the rest of the team and >>> find out what it will take. >>> >>> We've hired a contract release engineer with this task in mind but >>> you're right, most of the work will be in backporting. I like the idea >>> of coming up with a number it would take and a plan to do it. We're >>> not the only people with the problem, obviously. >> >> >> >> As a last resort, I would be interested in this, but I'm more interested in >> changing the culture of FreeBSD releases and long-term support in general. >> >> I think that: >> >> a) there are a lot more people out there, that we never hear from, that have >> these same problems, and another "4.x style" release would really help them. >> >> b) there are a lot of people out there that could be drawn into the FreeBSD >> ecosystem if another "4.x style" release existed. >> >> I would much rather donate $10k to a $100k kickstarter and have this be >> "official" than set aside $10k privately for unofficial maintenance, or a >> "fork". > > I understand your position, John. FYI, PC-BSD is not a fork of > FreeBSD. We have someone on re@ as well as security@ and several src > and ports committers. We would backport to the official branch as > necessary, since that's what we use to release PC-BSD. It's really > irrelevant to me who manages the money. I'm just not sure we can start > with 8.x rather than 9.x. > > However, this is pretty much the FreeBSD way. If we want something to > change, we affect the change with our efforts. *looping in the FreeBSD Foundation Board of Directors* As John has suggested, if we come up with some requirements and vote with our wallets, perhaps the Foundation can look into bringing on a couple of people full time to assist with release engineering for a Long-Term Supported release. -matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 23:35:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058CE106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@jerrymc.net) Received: from jerrymc.net (jerrymc.net [75.75.214.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846268FC12 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:35:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jerrymc.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jerrymc.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5CN89lX068416; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:08:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc@jerrymc.net) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by jerrymc.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5CN88G8068415; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:08:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:08:08 -0400 From: Jerry McAllister To: John Kozubik Message-ID: <20120612230808.GA68402@jerrymc.net> References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:35:33 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:40:48AM -0700, John Kozubik wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > > >>>I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 > >>>listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? > >> > >>Although I am not on re@, AFAIK the only schedule that is on the table > >>is the one for 9.1. > >> > > > >Release 8.3 (April 2012) has it really been 6 months yet! > > > We (rsync.net) are deploying our new ZFS based platform on FreeBSD. This > is a platform that needs to be live in just a few weeks.[1] > > We only run release software. Further, I don't think anyone will fault us > for steering clear of 9.0-RELEASE. 9.1 is probably four months away. > > So our choices are 8, which has no roadmap, and 9 which doesn't exist. Well, 8.3 is working fine for me. It is being well maintained. You sound like the people who can't decide to get something because a new version is going to come out sometime before they die. ////jerry > > On the one hand, we've made this choice before, when we invested hundreds > of thousands of dollars into equipment, code, training, etc. for 6.4. > We've successfully amortized this investment over the past 4-5 years, but > not without a lot of pain. The past 24 months has been a lot of custom > work, backporting drivers, etc. We don't want to repeat this. > > On the other hand, we're not going to debut a new platform, to customers > all over the world, on 9.0. > > So ... how about a kickstarter, since that's all the rage ? What would a > reasonable total be, donated to the FreeBSD foundation, that would ensure > the maintenance of the 8.x branch for another 3 years (say, Dec 31, 2015) > and out to (to pick an arbitrary number) 8.10 ? > > Just a thought ... > > > [1] After years of evaluation and testing, spanning 6.x - 8.x. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 23:57:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D6F106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:57:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E128FC0A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:57:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so144998dad.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:57:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=RV5/WyLpznKwwEPaelvHZJpOYm8dqjgLMxMN8F+Ikvg=; b=NiXJltxceJ3WCMIEYpMbd3ghEWT6o9SsewOCOVU3QJdBdtqjuodB5Fl+gljLdIQbl/ NshTn6prt3Lsxw2dZgfqMPbJyRHB/UYhok9fiiiZS9eYvbmdN9s9XAnSNUUw3euureSF BOsXf5wgWfbmW2bf9E+zMTLo1jxYyCFG4gOYS0lfkAEX0TVVzA7GLAdV/EHOLnjfvP0Q ke7ejOwhhWAs75o9wTbIt30qnEYhIBuhaDyivxL7JKSy9Np7zQ7BWMMRvpU7T9yeJCpg hAcGBIBZ+Q6Pu2hAfgcef+gdKjAc1/X+dGsfWIuNU5/H67q25lJBmGbov5YoOkmvmoT5 nrDQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.135.201 with SMTP id pu9mr43556045pbb.146.1339545436971; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:57:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD7B8A5.9020104@zonov.org> References: <4FC6748B.5030708@zonov.org> <4FC71F13.6040008@zonov.org> <4FD60FC2.3060206@vangyzen.net> <4FD7A6D0.1080002@zonov.org> <20120612212129.GA11622@lonesome.com> <4FD7B8A5.9020104@zonov.org> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:57:16 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XgGdxGFdm8eLfdFrJsqhMaVxQmU Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Andrey Zonov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Mark Linimon , Eric van Gyzen , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usertime stale at about 371k seconds X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:57:17 -0000 Hi, The best thing IMHO to do is: * file a PR with a description of the problem, how to reproduce it, and include a patch; * then poke the maintainer directly if you know who it is; * then keep gently poking them if they forget. Having a good description of a problem, including how to reproduce it, makes it quite a bit more useful to me as a software archeologist when I want to try and understand the why behind a fix. The what may be easy to figure out, but not the original reason. Doubly so when I decide to take over a subsystem and would like to understand some of the history/evolution of the codebase. 2c, YMMV, etc Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 00:01:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B7C106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F5E8FC0A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:01:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so148234dad.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:01:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=KwTn2LPJ9JqLVNnfa13+rArGwwEoSvrQdo//DOZIE+U=; b=CsW1rnhD5RzCu1G8mBqIDZ7kodMD+66C2OWG/a6hm8dkyhc7B8uYrjJl4VzLZbSLak EFm0JAwF+sPU4rrdHYUc4SBqbhQWC80VAkN0i3+jQ2y65tE83nMyFZm9ptEhQKr8kMIA 6O6639t+joesxg3kkY0Jho09l/15NYrwM+JkvoDaAvSFSlXRshTAVWKUVyyE5Yh4wzR2 37nwpl2FTHsiwngkXtghEGFN0QWC60aWAI/Or6FQUpQEoBUp3pmL5joQnPQMfaTj+kbJ 2fAey3kMH78AGpDFcy2flUAW3ETGkt+UIMpaePaQjNSbt5TaXydQwz/3gule1Q5UXs2L 0wwQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.223.167 with SMTP id qv7mr44049268pbc.127.1339545660314; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:01:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:01:00 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Om8WDjyaogM_LEP6x53vUezbf6k Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: John Kozubik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Matt Olander , Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:01:00 -0000 hi, You don't need to change the FreeBSD culture. We'd love to do an 8.4 release. And an 8.5 release, and 8.6 release, etc. The problem is one of resources and time, not of culture/desire. It takes a lot of (volunteer) effort and a lot of (donated) resources to do what we do with releases and release management. Are any of the release team actually working for a company that uses FreeBSD releases, and thus has a vested interest in getting them out the door and supported? That's what needs to be changed. A kickstarter style project would be great, but people can also donate directly to the foundation. It'd be great if there wre more people, time and resources available to do this. But the overlap of companies that want more/longer releases done and supported doesn't seem to overlap that great with the number of people actively doing FreeBSD release management. 2c, Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 00:17:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21535106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:17:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bfalk_bsd@brandonfa.lk) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14D68FC12 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:17:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so4319ggn.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:17:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brandonfa.lk; s=google; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Ew/wMNLz/IeyFDXJJVfqfFBmfc4fjbuikgiU6j53wsU=; b=StspDgtanK3dyQVOQFmcXJeR6mzKsvM8ajPVjiZl13YPv23grg5oQjs0wq1SY8PY7B LFgR9XzTVR16DzUcs/e1xC6I0GfkKr7/zQcG7kFdHmhLJpnrUtFTFrbtjgcNgGhXBB5W n1MD/cIADl5nJ6sHkdFtEaqpDj95o7z5JhIhk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=Ew/wMNLz/IeyFDXJJVfqfFBmfc4fjbuikgiU6j53wsU=; b=VeRCKQgFrMCAbE+E9T2RKmDgOtt1+cqaljJs6U9d4eLKWYw9JYJepO5NhNRhr3F13A iFdAHVv9Gfe4E1npwlQJ18ZtZULaA3QZLxoNzFHbRsKRdRwwBIeQWHQ830I3xTgXu3KJ QEOmZTrjV/1NQLEPcuo4rMn4yZpzzHQ7oS8fX/RPpvm8k3NWs1YBb+mligYOo9JmF7a+ EFrk8Lmu2/GkUjMGzc2ThjwYWH0EcKz/lC+rQYIXv/FOx6G1hRozZmJvfvBDKCWp6rdN qAEnSNh/hepxbdNrfWP0BS0o2pQKpt1P9byBPQFapcdU6UtvI3QP3d9+U1Y+6CkHIVWf dA8w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.181.225 with SMTP id dz1mr9650791igc.2.1339546634774; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.49.7 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:17:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [166.182.66.163] Received: by 10.231.49.7 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:17:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206120926.33947.hselasky@c2i.net> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <4FD6E065.6040601@FreeBSD.org> <201206120926.33947.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: Brandon Falk To: Hans Petter Selasky X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkzYwoVH6LP0Gg87qeKWgjq5WRNhnU49a6ryRm9rNUJy6o2udhcsSCNx8Fupl2HiyrJiDz7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:17:16 -0000 Ill do some profiling tonight and get back to you then. On Jun 12, 2012 3:27 AM, "Hans Petter Selasky" wrote: > On Tuesday 12 June 2012 08:23:33 Andriy Gapon wrote: > > on 12/06/2012 01:21 Brandon Falk said the following: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so > > > long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux > distro, > > > literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes > > > about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in > > > the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu > install > > > I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still > > > has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the > > > FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. > > > > > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > > > Do you have a breakdown of the boot time between pre-loader, loader, > kernel > > and rc stages? > > > > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > > > > Ditto. :-) > > BTW: Booting over USB is slow because many small chuncks of data is read > instead of a few big chunks when loading the kernel and modules at the > loader > time. > > --HPS > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 23:02:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC8A106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:02:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0208FC0A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:02:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2AA71B402C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:02:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:00:52 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> In-Reply-To: <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:15:41 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:02:17 -0000 On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long >> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about >> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot >> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty >> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic >> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process >> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >> >> Anyone have any suggestions? >> >> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as > is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There > are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup > or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the > most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). > Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized > rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their > resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's > possible with enough resources. > HTH, > -Garrett > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 00:50:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39B11065673 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:50:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB9C8FC14 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:50:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 1152656205; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:50:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:50:44 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Jerry McAllister Message-ID: <20120613005043.GA23142@lonesome.com> References: <20120612011645.GA7807@lonesome.com> <20120612151746.GA33004@DataIX.net> <20120612230808.GA68402@jerrymc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120612230808.GA68402@jerrymc.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:21:02 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:50:44 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 07:08:08PM -0400, Jerry McAllister wrote: > You sound like the people who can't decide to get something because a > new version is going to come out sometime before they die. That may be how it seems to end-users, but as we have heard multiple times from people who use FreeBSD to help run their businesses, information about scheduling and support of releases is key to their decisions on when to upgrade, or even whether to use FreeBSD in the first place. To them, your characterization is going to sound quite unfair. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 03:02:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B138106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 03:02:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C6A8FC16 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 03:02:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5D32cuC004512; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5D32bHh004509; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:02:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Richard Yao In-Reply-To: <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> Message-ID: References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 03:02:39 -0000 On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Richard Yao wrote: > Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause > licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. > Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. > > If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be > worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. There have been at least two attempts to parallelize the rc scripts. The more recent one was posted on the forums. AFAIR, one advantage it had was no or few changes to the rc scripts, and something like 40% improvement in startup time. I'll post a link if I can find it. Startup time is a big deal for notebooks. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 07:10:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E891065672 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:10:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334B98FC12 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5D7A4US085003; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:10:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5D7A4qq084840; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:10:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:10:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Brandon Falk In-Reply-To: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Message-ID: References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:10:04 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:10:18 -0000 > Greetings, > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long > to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally > takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 > seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, mostly kernel time. > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 11:15:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04675106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:15:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D248FC08 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:15:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5DBFiQJ007640; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5DBFhJJ007639; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:15:43 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120613111543.GD1584@albert.catwhisker.org> Mail-Followup-To: David Wolfskill , Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5gxpn/Q6ypwruk0T" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:15:45 -0000 --5gxpn/Q6ypwruk0T Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:10:04AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > .... > mostly kernel time.=20 > >Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >=20 > true. system that never crash are not often booted > ... I'd rather not get into a long discussion about this, but the above reflects a perception that I do not share, for the simple reason that I track FreeBSD stable/8, stable/9, and head daily on my laptop. And since each of these is an "in-place" source upgrade, I reboot to get into each of those environments. And since I actually track stable/9 twice (one slice has stable/9 built with gcc; the other with clang) -- well, my mornings tend to be busy. (Just installing the stable/8 freshly-built kernel as I type.) In addition, I normally power the laptop off when I put it in my backpack & cycle to or from the train station. (Well, if I'm running stable/9 or head at the time, I can suspend it & resume once I've arrived.) Granted, neither of the above may be especially common, but "diversity [in this case, of experience] is a wonderful thing." Let us not assume that others' experiences and perceptions are limited to our own -- please? :-) Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --5gxpn/Q6ypwruk0T Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/Ydl8ACgkQmprOCmdXAD2lzwCghtktgOcIxhSi6sv06YoQ2/ua 2Q0AnAm/gShVDTlcmCZfTr94Pp/8b3OL =IqCt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5gxpn/Q6ypwruk0T-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 07:16:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C90B106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:16:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4108FC15 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.61.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFC6139C3; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:16:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5D7GJF4020337; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:16:19 GMT (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Wojciech Puchar From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:10:04 +0200." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:16:19 +0000 Message-ID: <20336.1339571779@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:21:11 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Brandon Falk Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:16:28 -0000 In message , Wojci ech Puchar writes: One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers serially & synchronously. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 13:15:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EFC106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D948FC08 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:15:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta18.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.74]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Mox61j0041bwxycAEpECkc; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:14:12 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta18.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id MpEB1j00Y4NgCEG8epECkQ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:14:13 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5DDE97v033126; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:14:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Konstantin Belousov In-Reply-To: <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:14:09 -0600 Message-ID: <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wired memory - again! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:15:19 -0000 On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 23:45 +0300, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 08:51:34AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > > On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 22:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > > > First, all memory allocated by UMA and consequently malloc(9) is > > > > wired. In other words, almost all memory used by kernel is accounted > > > > as wired. > > > > > > > yes i understand this. still i found no way how to find out what allocated > > > that much. > > > > > > > > > > Second, the buffer cache wires the pages which are inserted into VMIO > > > > buffers. So your observation is basically right, cached buffers means > > > > > > what are exactly "VMIO" buffers. i understand that page must be wired WHEN > > > doing I/O. > > > But i have too much wired memory even when doing no I/O at all. > > > > I agree, this is The Big Question for me. Why does the system keep > > wired writable mappings of the buffers in kva after the IO operations > > are completed? > Read about buffer cache, e.g. in the Design and Implementation of > the FreeBSD OS book. > > > > > If it did not do so, it would fix the instruction-cache-disabled bug > > that kills performance on VIVT cache architectures (arm and mips) and it > > would reduce the amount of wired memory (that apparently doesn't need to > > be wired, unless I've missed the implications of a previous reply in > > this thread). > > I have no idea what is the bug you are talking about. If my guess is > right, and it specifically references unability of some processors > to correctly handle several mappings of the same physical page into > different virtual addresses due to cache tagging using virtual address > instead of physical, then this is a hardware bug, not software. > This bug: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2012-January/003288.html The bug isn't the VIVT cache hardware, it's the fact that the way we handle the requirements of the hardware has the side effect of leaving the instruction cache bit disabled on executable pages because the kernel keeps writable mappings of the pages even after the IO is done. > AFAIR, at least HP PA and MIPS have different instantiation of this problem. > Our kernel uses multi-mapping quite often, and buffers is only one example. > > Also, why do you think that the pages entered into buffers shall not be > wired, it is completely beyond my understanding. What's beyond my understanding is why a page has to remain wired after the IO is complete. That question seems to me to be tangentially related to the above question of why the kernel needs to keep a writable mapping of the buffer after it's done writing into the page (either via DMA or via uiomove() depending on the direction of the IO). -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 13:21:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2F4106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:21:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C27D8FC16 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:21:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.51]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id MpGW1j00216AWCUAEpMYT3; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:21:32 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id MpMX1j00M4NgCEG8SpMXwy; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:21:32 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5DDLT3u033135; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Wojciech Puchar In-Reply-To: References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:21:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:21:32 -0000 On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long > > to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally > > takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 > > seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, > > mostly kernel time. > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > > true. system that never crash are not often booted An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you use FreeBSD is the only way. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 13:50:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDFB106566C; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:50:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB498FC16; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:50:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id QAA26002; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:50:06 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <4FD89A8E.6070103@icyb.net.ua> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:50:06 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120610 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <4FD05C16.9040905@FreeBSD.org> <20120607084738.GT85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <4FD06CD3.3080602@FreeBSD.org> <20120607095741.GA1361@reks> <4FD0BAC6.6000304@FreeBSD.org> <4FD0EEB1.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FD37727.60705@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FD37727.60705@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:50:11 -0000 on 09/06/2012 19:17 Doug Barton said the following: > If this were a problem we didn't already have a solution for, I'd be > much more interested in what you're proposing. I wonder if you were in the same mindset when you worked on service(8). This is not to doubt service(8) usefulness, of course. Just drawing a parallel. > But in no particular order ... > > 1. This is not something most users would have to do very often, if at all. 1. Let's not generalize. 2. It is not a coincidence that I started this thread on this mailing list. > 2. We have a variety of different login managers, several of which do > things subtly differently, all of which would need ongoing support. The solution as proposed of now does not require any support or modifications. If people would be willing to implement additional support, then probably they would be doing that because they would want to have that, and to support that. > 3. While the changes you're proposing sound simple, the startup stuff > has some subtle interactions that we don't like to disrupt without good > reason. This is too vague to comment. > It's also worth pointing out that if all you need is a shell at boot > time, you can still do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get that, without having to change > anything. Thank you for opening my eyes. And sorry for using sarcasm again. No, that's not what I want. I want X to not start. > And if you find yourself needing to prevent the login manager > from starting more often than not, just disable it by default and start > it with 'service onestart', or use startx. I do need it that often that I'd have to inconvenience each boot. But I also want convenience those time when I need it. > My point being that this doesn't come with zero costs, and has very > little benefit. That usually spells "no" in my book. I understand your point. On the other hand, I find the proposed change to have measurable benefit and insignificant cost. This is "yes" in my book. Please also note that I am not asking you to do any work. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 14:19:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADC11065695 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:19:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from adsum.doit.wisc.edu (adsum.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A2408FC14 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:19:50 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0M5K00M0K7T1ZF00@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:19:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net ([unknown] [76.210.74.20]) by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0M5K008497T0CN30@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:19:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:19:47 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <4FD8A183.2020809@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.210.74.20 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-16, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.6.13.140916, SenderIP=76.210.74.20 References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120521 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:19:50 -0000 On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: > On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long >>> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >>> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about >>> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot >>> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty >>> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic >>> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process >>> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >>> >>> Anyone have any suggestions? >>> >>> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >> The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as >> is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There >> are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup >> or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the >> most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). >> Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized >> rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their >> resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's >> possible with enough resources. >> HTH, >> -Garrett >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause > licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. > Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. > > If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be > worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 15:17:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8FC1065674; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:17:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC26F8FC17; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:17:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5741B987; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:10:23 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:53:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Mark Linimon , Adrian Chadd , Matt Olander Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:17:55 -0000 On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:01:00 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: > hi, > > You don't need to change the FreeBSD culture. We'd love to do an 8.4 > release. And an 8.5 release, and 8.6 release, etc. The problem is one > of resources and time, not of culture/desire. I disagree. The pace of X.0 releases is a deliberate choice FreeBSD has made and directly impacts the number of "live" branches in existence. Given our developer base, we can't really support 3 branches concurrently (head + 2 stable like we have now with head, 9, and 8). Having longer lived stable branches requires either increasing resources to support exising releases longer, or slowing the pace of X.0 releases (but more aggressively merging things from HEAD back). The latter case, especially, is part of the culture and would be a choice we as a Project would have to make. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 15:50:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5809F106566B; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15FB8FC18; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1324443obc.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:50:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QkX5XEHiLcdZWnNiktkUE4gi5RFMzW5wBALijyrzzGY=; b=aHmpTr0wghQwnTndOhzxuegCDUg/SDr6RJDZ4ht6Rv7CjbHPtrbvlo2Vov+jk3WNgA gcEFa4TxdFyW3UoTEcg9uAAD3ozdPDLb5qx2Rh2sV27Gh24DCdd6xKW/yRkmHrQ2kJhM zfZU5jD3Yic7OE4SllN40s/2q3EAIO8oMOsTyENYfqCC/gW8TFKqdGCRs3SOSGXnbhBo DSRedsrjRUwG1Z4/Nn8GlqaD1Gvvhpni7IcsA0GVjl+DmZ9Ug9H0dpJzYgSPtWTSs5fO 8IJdqydSN9raW1DTCtAgO494tGYGOkEBniGT92DiXdStXFs8/XTm05lI4owPd0oFgqU7 gB6g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.40.5 with SMTP id t5mr25190355obk.68.1339602624509; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:50:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:50:24 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: John Baldwin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Matt Olander , Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:50:25 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:53 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:01:00 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: >> hi, >> >> You don't need to change the FreeBSD culture. We'd love to do an 8.4 >> release. And an 8.5 release, and 8.6 release, etc. The problem is one >> of resources and time, not of culture/desire. > > I disagree. =A0The pace of X.0 releases is a deliberate choice FreeBSD > has made and directly impacts the number of "live" branches in existence. > Given our developer base, we can't really support 3 branches concurrently > (head + 2 stable like we have now with head, 9, and 8). =A0Having longer = lived > stable branches requires either increasing resources to support exising > releases longer, or slowing the pace of X.0 releases (but more aggressive= ly > merging things from HEAD back). =A0The latter case, especially, is part o= f > the culture and would be a choice we as a Project would have to make. The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, committing it, etc as the current paradigm requires the developer (or another stand-in developer in the event that the original developer failed to MFC the code) to do the work (which is sort of what the OP is doing in this case, and what I've seen a few different groups do that don't run bleeding edge code). That concept doesn't really exist today. Maybe this would be a good idea for improving the longevity of release cycles and maybe that's what ultimately needs to be done as it would reduce distractions on developers actively churning away on {[CURRENT-1],}[CURRENT], and maybe that's what should be proposed. As good as BSDi was from what I hear, that "business" model alone won't probably work as many people take the support piece (companies that just want the software and might develop/support apps/services on top of it) and the longevity piece (companies that develop with/on the software as a product) separately. They're typically (but not always) mutually exclusive from what I've seen in my limited experience. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 15:52:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223D41065675; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:52:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2828FC1A; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:52:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so1253203dad.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:52:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1rJpa30k5kM1pzPuUKiXGa9Wy8GYd33Juz0CN0jiiBQ=; b=Q/oHIU4RqyauVQneNEGItFCl91QZyD6uCZXc5o4Z0/eYb/v/0lGcNgAOhYEK58ojHg 3+I5egkCCFRGpvP+6yPlDCLwSYwEOTZPdV6xNg4qNp9SnbHPrFPeaSHZc2xYyH4mqi3V 2IA5PT08UiJwn009K6KI34BUC7yTdGi/u2/8uJ1O6qJqivHWnMdMiKGsXHVfFJZV78g7 If/sdQ+2+teKyS4pJG/oIeZrelsUU+roK12EJEWnKDIa+hm7TpeMJCvB1X+S138JRZwJ AgLgAWwMtrvPzPgOn5s3Xk9AQ61bOPqQzlqJQ3WuRc2DEYfxSFAryXDT8tNkUy6w+gVB UZDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.234.35 with SMTP id ub3mr52385804pbc.8.1339602748583; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:52:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:52:28 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4Q4pZiLV2imeVavxwtDia10jY6U Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: John Baldwin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Matt Olander , Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:52:29 -0000 On 13 June 2012 05:53, John Baldwin wrote: >> You don't need to change the FreeBSD culture. We'd love to do an 8.4 >> release. And an 8.5 release, and 8.6 release, etc. The problem is one >> of resources and time, not of culture/desire. > > I disagree. =A0The pace of X.0 releases is a deliberate choice FreeBSD > has made and directly impacts the number of "live" branches in existence. > Given our developer base, we can't really support 3 branches concurrently > (head + 2 stable like we have now with head, 9, and 8). =A0Having longer = lived > stable branches requires either increasing resources to support exising > releases longer, or slowing the pace of X.0 releases (but more aggressive= ly > merging things from HEAD back). =A0The latter case, especially, is part o= f > the culture and would be a choice we as a Project would have to make. Right, but I don't think the freebsd project would really mind or change much if more people came on board to handle legacy releases and support them. If you're a company that uses FreeBSD stable releases, please consider contributing engineering resources and/or donations to the Foundation to improve the support of said stable releases. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 17:06:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2924E106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:06:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bfalk_bsd@brandonfa.lk) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1AC38FC08 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:06:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so3725573qab.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:06:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brandonfa.lk; s=google; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tRgRFE4FzJxb9IakFa9QS5/dYwfSeGmYAe/jY0VcC/A=; b=IZVgpqwF73eJkX8HMbe+Qo3xPhgk3RNjH2xJE36tlGnZBO1UdY3lHFAIxJV5AzKuiN XRGDCpES8K5T6aPNq+LXGbnsrM4Aq4y3942WY1laY5M7J1QsYyIZghU6sKOjmFLMayjy hz5IwclLhZuf4QB31lg8dzIl2GfII34j4IYVI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=tRgRFE4FzJxb9IakFa9QS5/dYwfSeGmYAe/jY0VcC/A=; b=Fr4pk05a2smaxKkSerxsMdMxYAr+iooz/1QQA2ca2BievbQ8CBzvOWXpug7gDJWGor vcpYu7hGUh3F9Ul5h7lfaJNInYPYuwUhV21cid/XIRBhsmpv5uBKNZVWNlu6zNprr7T1 HM47RGqt78xk9r+SFDDm3TOIvuyw+cckaBDnwMU0KebFi/ObAItDUNBns8jY4b/IQi7D mEIlzhZNqGuoORiJfqlGMWGjr6BmyBTSnXxFbmJzr0KcgnvUKMr/VVXsbopQa4xXvztF VE3g6SRRsZFSVa9A42jey9QEKjY8+KG+pNh2Er8Tlfk5rrxLN1GWP3uodvwBn41VqSWM 2llA== Received: by 10.224.221.206 with SMTP id id14mr27839614qab.52.1339607169545; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.64] (wsip-184-183-177-134.dc.dc.cox.net. [184.183.177.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x14sm399546qac.1.2012.06.13.10.06.07 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD8C87A.20602@brandonfa.lk> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:06:02 -0400 From: Brandon Falk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Whitehorn References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> <4FD8A183.2020809@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4FD8A183.2020809@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQTZ/g/FiD7g6EkMoChYE4vgGBTyZcXWiFrQl+hKC8VY5lsw5RevjasU7RjYNwPZ7PJzX/ Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:06:11 -0000 On 6/13/2012 10:19 AM, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: >> On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon >>> Falk wrote: >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it >>>> take so long >>>> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >>>> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD >>>> takes about >>>> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in >>>> the boot >>>> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I >>>> do pretty >>>> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a >>>> generic >>>> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot >>>> process >>>> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >>>> >>>> Anyone have any suggestions? >>>> >>>> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >>> The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as >>> is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There >>> are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup >>> or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the >>> most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). >>> Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized >>> rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their >>> resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's >>> possible with enough resources. >>> HTH, >>> -Garrett >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause >> licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. >> Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. >> >> If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be >> worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. > One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, > besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to > configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. > -Nathan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Sorry guys, I was very busy last night. The issue is not the init system, rather the kernel. Maybe for a server does the init system start to get lengthy, but at least on my desktop environment where I have almost nothing for RC to do, the kernel bootup takes about 95% of the boot process. If I were to really delve into this (as it would require extensive changes in the kernel [I think]), I would probably end up branching FreeBSD either to a new OS, or if I got permission, to just another branch of FreeBSD. -Brandon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 17:32:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8E51065677; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:32:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5708FC0C; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:32:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CF78B960; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:32:13 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Adrian Chadd Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:27:19 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206131327.19688.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Matt Olander , Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:32:14 -0000 On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:52:28 am Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 13 June 2012 05:53, John Baldwin wrote: > > >> You don't need to change the FreeBSD culture. We'd love to do an 8.4 > >> release. And an 8.5 release, and 8.6 release, etc. The problem is one > >> of resources and time, not of culture/desire. > > > > I disagree. The pace of X.0 releases is a deliberate choice FreeBSD > > has made and directly impacts the number of "live" branches in existence. > > Given our developer base, we can't really support 3 branches concurrently > > (head + 2 stable like we have now with head, 9, and 8). Having longer lived > > stable branches requires either increasing resources to support exising > > releases longer, or slowing the pace of X.0 releases (but more aggressively > > merging things from HEAD back). The latter case, especially, is part of > > the culture and would be a choice we as a Project would have to make. > > Right, but I don't think the freebsd project would really mind or > change much if more people came on board to handle legacy releases and > support them. > > If you're a company that uses FreeBSD stable releases, please consider > contributing engineering resources and/or donations to the Foundation > to improve the support of said stable releases. :) No, that doesn't actually work. Having additional support on a stable branch requires someone able to 1) commit changes to stable branches and 2) be able to cut newer releases from said branches (i.e. doing the work of re@). You cannot get that as an outside entity. It requires buy-in from the Project itself. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 17:47:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B361106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:47:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from avasout04.plus.net (avasout04.plus.net [212.159.14.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCE58FC12 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:47:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from deb604.localnet ([213.120.4.179]) by avasout04 with smtp id MtnM1j0043rkhsM01tnNlC; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:47:23 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=UOhf7Vjy c=1 sm=1 a=Jag65tndKSbXe6AqDNjYnA==:17 a=tvFjYeeLK-cA:10 a=-cD-LAwo03sA:10 a=KdljGRtMWWsA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7vtFykjVAAAA:8 a=XxFIc2ikdQOJww258BoA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Jag65tndKSbXe6AqDNjYnA==:117 From: Frank Mitchell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:47:41 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.32-5-686; KDE/4.4.5; i686; ; ) References: <20120612230808.GA68402@jerrymc.net> In-Reply-To: <20120612230808.GA68402@jerrymc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206131847.41695.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:47:25 -0000 Hey, I'm a Desktop User and I wish FreeBSD v8.3 worked for me. I can't get a Dialup Internet Connection without setting up a complicated script. And my Porn Videos crash halfway through. Yours frustratedly: Frank Mitchell On Wednesday 13 June 2012 00:08:08 Jerry McAllister wrote: > > Well, 8.3 is working fine for me. It is being well maintained. > > You sound like the people who can't decide to get something because a > new version is going to come out sometime before they die. > > ////jerry > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 18:22:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763DF106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:22:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107B38FC08 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:22:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5DIMXNB005745; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:22:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5DIMX74013899; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:22:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5DIMWe4013898; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:22:32 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:22:32 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Ian Lepore Message-ID: <20120613182232.GT2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Yg/4YF7t1SayoUom" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wired memory - again! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:22:48 -0000 --Yg/4YF7t1SayoUom Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 07:14:09AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 23:45 +0300, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 08:51:34AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 22:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > First, all memory allocated by UMA and consequently malloc(9) is > > > > > wired. In other words, almost all memory used by kernel is accoun= ted > > > > > as wired. > > > > > > > > > yes i understand this. still i found no way how to find out what al= located=20 > > > > that much. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > > Second, the buffer cache wires the pages which are inserted into = VMIO > > > > > buffers. So your observation is basically right, cached buffers m= eans > > > >=20 > > > > what are exactly "VMIO" buffers. i understand that page must be wir= ed WHEN=20 > > > > doing I/O. > > > > But i have too much wired memory even when doing no I/O at all. > > >=20 > > > I agree, this is The Big Question for me. Why does the system keep > > > wired writable mappings of the buffers in kva after the IO operations > > > are completed? =20 > > Read about buffer cache, e.g. in the Design and Implementation of > > the FreeBSD OS book. > >=20 > > >=20 > > > If it did not do so, it would fix the instruction-cache-disabled bug > > > that kills performance on VIVT cache architectures (arm and mips) and= it > > > would reduce the amount of wired memory (that apparently doesn't need= to > > > be wired, unless I've missed the implications of a previous reply in > > > this thread). > >=20 > > I have no idea what is the bug you are talking about. If my guess is > > right, and it specifically references unability of some processors > > to correctly handle several mappings of the same physical page into > > different virtual addresses due to cache tagging using virtual address > > instead of physical, then this is a hardware bug, not software. > >=20 >=20 > This bug: >=20 > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2012-January/003288.html >=20 > The bug isn't the VIVT cache hardware, it's the fact that the way we > handle the requirements of the hardware has the side effect of leaving > the instruction cache bit disabled on executable pages because the > kernel keeps writable mappings of the pages even after the IO is done. Can you point me at the exact code in arm pmap ? I remember an issue on PPC which Nathan discussed, that sounds somewhat similar (but I still do not understand what exactly happens on ARM). On PowerPC, icache needs to be explicitely flushed if write happen to the executable mapping. See r233949 for current solution. There were some followups, but I believe the core change is still valid. >=20 > > AFAIR, at least HP PA and MIPS have different instantiation of this pro= blem. > > Our kernel uses multi-mapping quite often, and buffers is only one exam= ple. > >=20 > > Also, why do you think that the pages entered into buffers shall not be > > wired, it is completely beyond my understanding. >=20 > What's beyond my understanding is why a page has to remain wired after > the IO is complete. That question seems to me to be tangentially > related to the above question of why the kernel needs to keep a writable > mapping of the buffer after it's done writing into the page (either via > DMA or via uiomove() depending on the direction of the IO). Because the buffer is cached. --Yg/4YF7t1SayoUom Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/Y2mgACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4jf5gCghvVaGykbW1nf5e1OY8ptkuUy 3aMAoIo//+r3F/M0KPwG2W2fZCErm1Pl =gt/L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Yg/4YF7t1SayoUom-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 18:37:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742B3106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:37:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nonesuch@longcount.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41B98FC12 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so1843249lbo.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=VILnSHLRc3K25MSR9VP+4r0LPNFwqakiyGGUfN29lus=; b=ZOcgDWepWA6YkjpoM5lE24N4rzok6JUO5ycUxKBuUSuiZewPb38Gw8ieTBAlgIn3hr BwTH7PXlg+0ijU/GGz7o5a34wURp1k/eEFVfYcSYPFQFzp1w/qE3i20B+ULX43kHGz4U cx+UiAuMGASs1Rav+aNzID4TAvV6Bt3tA4hXZ1ACTihZcRkqc3jIQLciLpPhRoAaVxtH WsK77rQPhEsYvl7J30HarP4Z6/s1mxs2wLuCTVkQ4VC48HdMEfqEjho4HD7pDarXn+M2 ziscRyNmtnNXH03WcgFg3hQ0SiWNI0Y2dggE0qTxX7q9Zjw8ZfJs6rslojRqXJ6I6utW H1UA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.148.170 with SMTP id tt10mr25455011lab.48.1339612643693; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.27.137 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [209.66.78.50] In-Reply-To: <201206131847.41695.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> References: <20120612230808.GA68402@jerrymc.net> <201206131847.41695.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:37:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mark Saad To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmZjSWf1bTxDrl9HEQ318C6O+FQN/+blR+EYE+HOh9Fe2VUC11ecKMDWBH8ZFQYWYnZgqGn Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:37:25 -0000 I'll share my 2 cents here, as someone who maintains a decent sided FreeBSD install. 1. FreeBSD needs to make end users more comfortable with using a Dot-Ohh release; and at the time of the dot-ohh release a timeline for the next point releases should be made. * 2. Having three supported releases is showing issues , and brings up the point of why was 9.0 not released as 8.3 ? ** 3. The end users appear to want less releases, and for them to be supported longer . * A rough outline would do and it should be on the main release page http://www.freebsd.org/releases/ ** Yes I understand that 9.0 had tons of new features that were added and its not exactly a point release upgrade from 8.2 , however one can argue that if it were there would be less yelling about when version X is going to be EOL'd and when will version Y be released. -- mark saad | nonesuch@longcount.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 18:43:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 908501065673 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from agogare.doit.wisc.edu (agogare.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556E38FC16 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:43:03 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0M5K00402JZQ6L00@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:43:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from wanderer.tachypleus.net (i3-user-nat.icecube.wisc.edu [128.104.255.12]) by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0M5K00CHWJZP6G30@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:43:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:43:01 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <20120613182232.GT2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> To: Konstantin Belousov Message-id: <4FD8DF35.80105@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=128.104.255.12 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-14, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.6.13.183314, SenderIP=128.104.255.12 References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120613182232.GT2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0 Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: wired memory - again! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:43:03 -0000 On 06/13/12 13:22, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 07:14:09AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: >> On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 23:45 +0300, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 08:51:34AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: >>>> On Sat, 2012-06-09 at 22:45 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>>>> First, all memory allocated by UMA and consequently malloc(9) is >>>>>> wired. In other words, almost all memory used by kernel is accounted >>>>>> as wired. >>>>>> >>>>> yes i understand this. still i found no way how to find out what allocated >>>>> that much. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Second, the buffer cache wires the pages which are inserted into VMIO >>>>>> buffers. So your observation is basically right, cached buffers means >>>>> what are exactly "VMIO" buffers. i understand that page must be wired WHEN >>>>> doing I/O. >>>>> But i have too much wired memory even when doing no I/O at all. >>>> I agree, this is The Big Question for me. Why does the system keep >>>> wired writable mappings of the buffers in kva after the IO operations >>>> are completed? >>> Read about buffer cache, e.g. in the Design and Implementation of >>> the FreeBSD OS book. >>> >>>> If it did not do so, it would fix the instruction-cache-disabled bug >>>> that kills performance on VIVT cache architectures (arm and mips) and it >>>> would reduce the amount of wired memory (that apparently doesn't need to >>>> be wired, unless I've missed the implications of a previous reply in >>>> this thread). >>> I have no idea what is the bug you are talking about. If my guess is >>> right, and it specifically references unability of some processors >>> to correctly handle several mappings of the same physical page into >>> different virtual addresses due to cache tagging using virtual address >>> instead of physical, then this is a hardware bug, not software. >>> >> This bug: >> >> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2012-January/003288.html >> >> The bug isn't the VIVT cache hardware, it's the fact that the way we >> handle the requirements of the hardware has the side effect of leaving >> the instruction cache bit disabled on executable pages because the >> kernel keeps writable mappings of the pages even after the IO is done. > Can you point me at the exact code in arm pmap ? > > I remember an issue on PPC which Nathan discussed, that sounds somewhat > similar (but I still do not understand what exactly happens on ARM). On > PowerPC, icache needs to be explicitely flushed if write happen to the > executable mapping. See r233949 for current solution. There were some > followups, but I believe the core change is still valid. > > The general algorithm I used on PPC (which is PIPT, but still has an incoherent icache) is based on the following guarantees/observations, which seem to be sufficient for FreeBSD to run correctly: 1. Executable kernel memory never contains new data except after a module load, so only do kernel icache flushes in elf_machdep.c after a module load. 2. Executable pages are never mapped into userland until the kernel is finished writing to them. Thus, userland icache consistency is maintained with respect to all kernel operations (executable loading, swap, etc.) if icaches are made coherent once at the time that the page is entered into its first non-kernel pmap. If your chip has an NX feature, this only need be done for the first executable user mapping -- otherwise it needs to be done for the first overall mapping to prevent information leakage via the icache. I guess for VIVT, "first" may mean "every" here. 3. I-cache coherency with respect to userland modifications is the responsibility of the user program. All self-modifying code knows, or should know, what to do here. Otherwise the only time this comes up is in RTLD, which is easily modified to do an icache flush after load. The general point is that even if the kernel maintains its writable mapping after the IO is complete, it will never actually write to that mapping after the page has been mapped into its first user process and therefore it is safe to maintain cacheability at all times and do a single invalidation when it is mapped into the user pmap. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 19:12:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90956106564A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:12:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA808FC0A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:12:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5DJC6dj017806; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:12:06 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5DJC5eE042720; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:12:05 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5DJC5CX042719; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:12:05 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:12:05 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Ian Lepore Message-ID: <20120613191205.GU2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Ivd6Nf4GAZ12BQqh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Rtld object tasting [Was: Re: wired memory - again!] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:12:15 -0000 --Ivd6Nf4GAZ12BQqh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 07:14:09AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2012-January/003288.html The map_object.c patch is step in the almost right direction, I wanted to remove the static page-sized buffer from get_elf_header for long time. It works because rtld always holds bind_lock exclusively while loading an object. There is no need to copy the first page after it is mapped. commit 0f6f8629af1345acded7c0c685d3ff7b4d9180d6 Author: Konstantin Belousov Date: Wed Jun 13 22:04:18 2012 +0300 Eliminate the static buffer used to read the first page of the mapped object, and eliminate the pread(2) call as well. Mmap the first page of the object temporaly, and unmap it on error or last use. =20 Fix several cases were the whole mapping of the object leaked on error. =20 Potentially, this leaves one-page gap between succeeding dlopen(3), but there are other mmap(2) consumers as well. diff --git a/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c b/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c index d74ef15..7068433 100644 --- a/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c +++ b/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c @@ -38,7 +38,7 @@ #include "debug.h" #include "rtld.h" =20 -static Elf_Ehdr *get_elf_header (int, const char *); +static Elf_Ehdr *get_elf_header(int, const char *); static int convert_prot(int); /* Elf flags -> mmap protection */ static int convert_flags(int); /* Elf flags -> mmap flags */ =20 @@ -121,7 +121,7 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct stat = *sb) if ((segs[nsegs]->p_align & (PAGE_SIZE - 1)) !=3D 0) { _rtld_error("%s: PT_LOAD segment %d not page-aligned", path, nsegs); - return NULL; + goto error; } break; =20 @@ -161,12 +161,12 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct sta= t *sb) } if (phdyn =3D=3D NULL) { _rtld_error("%s: object is not dynamically-linked", path); - return NULL; + goto error; } =20 if (nsegs < 0) { _rtld_error("%s: too few PT_LOAD segments", path); - return NULL; + goto error; } =20 /* @@ -183,13 +183,12 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct sta= t *sb) if (mapbase =3D=3D (caddr_t) -1) { _rtld_error("%s: mmap of entire address space failed: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); - return NULL; + goto error; } if (base_addr !=3D NULL && mapbase !=3D base_addr) { _rtld_error("%s: mmap returned wrong address: wanted %p, got %p", path, base_addr, mapbase); - munmap(mapbase, mapsize); - return NULL; + goto error1; } =20 for (i =3D 0; i <=3D nsegs; i++) { @@ -204,7 +203,7 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct stat = *sb) data_flags, fd, data_offset) =3D=3D (caddr_t) -1) { _rtld_error("%s: mmap of data failed: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); - return NULL; + goto error1; } =20 /* Do BSS setup */ @@ -221,7 +220,7 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct stat = *sb) mprotect(clear_page, PAGE_SIZE, data_prot|PROT_WRITE)) { _rtld_error("%s: mprotect failed: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); - return NULL; + goto error1; } =20 memset(clear_addr, 0, nclear); @@ -240,7 +239,7 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct stat = *sb) data_flags | MAP_ANON, -1, 0) =3D=3D (caddr_t)-1) { _rtld_error("%s: mmap of bss failed: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); - return NULL; + goto error1; } } } @@ -273,7 +272,7 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct stat = *sb) if (obj->phdr =3D=3D NULL) { obj_free(obj); _rtld_error("%s: cannot allocate program header", path); - return NULL; + goto error1; } memcpy((char *)obj->phdr, (char *)hdr + hdr->e_phoff, phsize); obj->phdr_alloc =3D true; @@ -293,63 +292,72 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct sta= t *sb) obj->relro_page =3D obj->relocbase + trunc_page(relro_page); obj->relro_size =3D round_page(relro_size); =20 - return obj; + munmap(hdr, PAGE_SIZE); + return (obj); + +error1: + munmap(mapbase, mapsize); +error: + munmap(hdr, PAGE_SIZE); + return (NULL); } =20 static Elf_Ehdr * -get_elf_header (int fd, const char *path) +get_elf_header(int fd, const char *path) { - static union { - Elf_Ehdr hdr; - char buf[PAGE_SIZE]; - } u; - ssize_t nbytes; - - if ((nbytes =3D pread(fd, u.buf, PAGE_SIZE, 0)) =3D=3D -1) { - _rtld_error("%s: read error: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); - return NULL; - } + Elf_Ehdr *hdr; =20 - /* Make sure the file is valid */ - if (nbytes < (ssize_t)sizeof(Elf_Ehdr) || !IS_ELF(u.hdr)) { - _rtld_error("%s: invalid file format", path); - return NULL; - } - if (u.hdr.e_ident[EI_CLASS] !=3D ELF_TARG_CLASS - || u.hdr.e_ident[EI_DATA] !=3D ELF_TARG_DATA) { - _rtld_error("%s: unsupported file layout", path); - return NULL; - } - if (u.hdr.e_ident[EI_VERSION] !=3D EV_CURRENT - || u.hdr.e_version !=3D EV_CURRENT) { - _rtld_error("%s: unsupported file version", path); - return NULL; - } - if (u.hdr.e_type !=3D ET_EXEC && u.hdr.e_type !=3D ET_DYN) { - _rtld_error("%s: unsupported file type", path); - return NULL; - } - if (u.hdr.e_machine !=3D ELF_TARG_MACH) { - _rtld_error("%s: unsupported machine", path); - return NULL; - } + hdr =3D mmap(NULL, PAGE_SIZE, PROT_READ, 0, fd, 0); + if (hdr =3D=3D (Elf_Ehdr *)MAP_FAILED) { + _rtld_error("%s: read error: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); + return NULL; + } =20 - /* - * We rely on the program header being in the first page. This is - * not strictly required by the ABI specification, but it seems to - * always true in practice. And, it simplifies things considerably. - */ - if (u.hdr.e_phentsize !=3D sizeof(Elf_Phdr)) { - _rtld_error( - "%s: invalid shared object: e_phentsize !=3D sizeof(Elf_Phdr)", path); - return NULL; - } - if (u.hdr.e_phoff + u.hdr.e_phnum * sizeof(Elf_Phdr) > (size_t)nbytes)= { - _rtld_error("%s: program header too large", path); - return NULL; - } + /* Make sure the file is valid */ + if (!IS_ELF(*hdr)) { + _rtld_error("%s: invalid file format", path); + goto error; + } + if (hdr->e_ident[EI_CLASS] !=3D ELF_TARG_CLASS || + hdr->e_ident[EI_DATA] !=3D ELF_TARG_DATA) { + _rtld_error("%s: unsupported file layout", path); + goto error; + } + if (hdr->e_ident[EI_VERSION] !=3D EV_CURRENT || + hdr->e_version !=3D EV_CURRENT) { + _rtld_error("%s: unsupported file version", path); + goto error; + } + if (hdr->e_type !=3D ET_EXEC && hdr->e_type !=3D ET_DYN) { + _rtld_error("%s: unsupported file type", path); + goto error; + } + if (hdr->e_machine !=3D ELF_TARG_MACH) { + _rtld_error("%s: unsupported machine", path); + goto error; + } + + /* + * We rely on the program header being in the first page. This is + * not strictly required by the ABI specification, but it seems to + * always true in practice. And, it simplifies things considerably. + */ + if (hdr->e_phentsize !=3D sizeof(Elf_Phdr)) { + _rtld_error( + "%s: invalid shared object: e_phentsize !=3D sizeof(Elf_Phdr)", path); + goto error; + } + if (hdr->e_phoff + hdr->e_phnum * sizeof(Elf_Phdr) > + (size_t)PAGE_SIZE) { + _rtld_error("%s: program header too large", path); + goto error; + } + + return (hdr); =20 - return (&u.hdr); +error: + munmap(hdr, PAGE_SIZE); + return (NULL); } =20 void --Ivd6Nf4GAZ12BQqh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/Y5gUACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4hoagCeOXwjxBuWFDTlywn8fJcLlpUq apwAoPduJnKqW0X9U9KjZiMMIP1LbhzP =OcdG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Ivd6Nf4GAZ12BQqh-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 19:55:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9DE106566C for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:55:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe02.c2i.net [212.247.154.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBBB38FC08 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:55:58 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe02.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 286749583; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:55:51 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:55:22 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-Reply-To: <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Ian Lepore , Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:55:59 -0000 On Wednesday 13 June 2012 15:21:29 Ian Lepore wrote: > On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so > > > long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux > > > distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where > > > FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be > > > parallelized in the boot process, > > > > mostly kernel time. > > > > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > > > > true. system that never crash are not often booted > > An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a > day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you > use FreeBSD is the only way. > > -- Ian Try setting: sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=1 Might help a bit :-) --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 20:17:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B08106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:17:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alan.l.cox@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DC28FC15 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:17:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so2946338pbb.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7ZkN7AZfnLIi7Oztf3jG+UBAiXY+AfatK7aQSFjxce8=; b=E0ruN/fPPlc45VYk6T5dBjad5IQJvyQGj+fPOJay2R+tDaF94PSCg9Lg3zWyE4DUA5 9LFrf9euXqEX3IVX4DIkbZZguD2ivZ05/6BLCanvW89atbRGCIISRVdHbyKWTOPI53QW 5Xdv7cs8gcnMPFXtaHrRZRtFdHm5ox1J2upc4TyY+6nlRXODbjRyFgEnnYgEc9yQajyl OilEY41K7AM39kiS3kg6U6KBYVXVXUNUtWukRq9Q3fezwDJjrcxO+jao3+jwjY4tb6Ut Gg9noaavq9326St032zR8LU29Lf5ZFeF1P9PZicuG9zS7X1qeqB9p7z5UrlEdM69DWBF eSDA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.132.201 with SMTP id ow9mr53823163pbb.160.1339618676484; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.226.7 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120613191205.GU2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120613191205.GU2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:17:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alan Cox To: Konstantin Belousov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Rtld object tasting [Was: Re: wired memory - again!] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: alc@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:17:57 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 07:14:09AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2012-January/003288.html > > The map_object.c patch is step in the almost right direction, I wanted > to remove the static page-sized buffer from get_elf_header for long time. > It works because rtld always holds bind_lock exclusively while loading > an object. There is no need to copy the first page after it is mapped. > > commit 0f6f8629af1345acded7c0c685d3ff7b4d9180d6 > Author: Konstantin Belousov > Date: Wed Jun 13 22:04:18 2012 +0300 > > Eliminate the static buffer used to read the first page of the mapped > object, and eliminate the pread(2) call as well. Mmap the first page > of the object temporaly, and unmap it on error or last use. > > Fix several cases were the whole mapping of the object leaked on error. > > Potentially, this leaves one-page gap between succeeding dlopen(3), > but there are other mmap(2) consumers as well. > > I suggest adding MAP_PREFAULT_READ to the mmap(2) call. A heuristic in vm_map_pmap_enter() would trigger automatic mapping for small files, but if the object file is larger than 96 pages then you need to explicitly specific MAP_PREFAULT_READ. Alan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 20:24:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DE6106564A; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:24:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C768FC08; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:24:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5DKOjS4040217; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:24:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5DKOiCg056193; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:24:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5DKOiTv056192; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:24:44 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:24:44 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: alc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120613202444.GW2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1339259223.36051.328.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120609165217.GO85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339512694.36051.362.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120612204508.GP2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <1339593249.73426.5.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <20120613191205.GU2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Fw8vdPO5iEPGjqL+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: Rtld object tasting [Was: Re: wired memory - again!] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:24:54 -0000 --Fw8vdPO5iEPGjqL+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 03:17:56PM -0500, Alan Cox wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >=20 > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 07:14:09AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2012-January/003288.ht= ml > > > > The map_object.c patch is step in the almost right direction, I wanted > > to remove the static page-sized buffer from get_elf_header for long tim= e. > > It works because rtld always holds bind_lock exclusively while loading > > an object. There is no need to copy the first page after it is mapped. > > > > commit 0f6f8629af1345acded7c0c685d3ff7b4d9180d6 > > Author: Konstantin Belousov > > Date: Wed Jun 13 22:04:18 2012 +0300 > > > > Eliminate the static buffer used to read the first page of the mapped > > object, and eliminate the pread(2) call as well. Mmap the first page > > of the object temporaly, and unmap it on error or last use. > > > > Fix several cases were the whole mapping of the object leaked on err= or. > > > > Potentially, this leaves one-page gap between succeeding dlopen(3), > > but there are other mmap(2) consumers as well. > > > > > I suggest adding MAP_PREFAULT_READ to the mmap(2) call. A heuristic in > vm_map_pmap_enter() would trigger automatic mapping for small files, but = if > the object file is larger than 96 pages then you need to explicitly > specific MAP_PREFAULT_READ. Thank you for the suggestion. commit 77de77b3124fb2742db1db72e9dfc47050c5ac36 Author: Konstantin Belousov Date: Wed Jun 13 23:22:27 2012 +0300 Use MAP_PREFAULT_READ for mmap(2) calls which map real object pages. =20 Suggested by: alc diff --git a/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c b/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c index 2afc88c..437e7c2 100644 --- a/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c +++ b/libexec/rtld-elf/map_object.c @@ -200,7 +200,7 @@ map_object(int fd, const char *path, const struct stat = *sb) data_prot =3D convert_prot(segs[i]->p_flags); data_flags =3D convert_flags(segs[i]->p_flags) | MAP_FIXED; if (mmap(data_addr, data_vlimit - data_vaddr, data_prot, - data_flags, fd, data_offset) =3D=3D (caddr_t) -1) { + data_flags | MAP_PREFAULT_READ, fd, data_offset) =3D=3D (caddr_t) -1) { _rtld_error("%s: mmap of data failed: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); goto error1; @@ -307,7 +307,8 @@ get_elf_header(int fd, const char *path) { Elf_Ehdr *hdr; =20 - hdr =3D mmap(NULL, PAGE_SIZE, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, fd, 0); + hdr =3D mmap(NULL, PAGE_SIZE, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE | MAP_PREFAULT_READ, + fd, 0); if (hdr =3D=3D (Elf_Ehdr *)MAP_FAILED) { _rtld_error("%s: read error: %s", path, rtld_strerror(errno)); return NULL; --Fw8vdPO5iEPGjqL+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/Y9wwACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4idbQCg7wAMgJwU32kWoQD1fpiJEk4e mkMAoLINfWk04aKNm9eUgihRE8Ta7nxw =cZTm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Fw8vdPO5iEPGjqL+-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 20:58:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A531065672 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:58:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA018FC12 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1753614obc.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:58:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6xUatDbhsEztRRR7prjgZzf9e4gfIigewFuyn6jXNHw=; b=FWzupTieprEbZ2gdYDmtmkJ+YZS2Uv3IRmN4ag3JWWrPOkHJ9y2rxFQzqf5TCujOos 1fnZG1RQUPwSPQY5gSOGajv08EDGJ3oSUDImTeJmzH9FI+ecRRTIJcri59K/2MTfGWJG LnPgX/HO3Q1liTWqi2vACaFFXLvtsmY03AtNU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=6xUatDbhsEztRRR7prjgZzf9e4gfIigewFuyn6jXNHw=; b=DsDyHmCzs7IQ3qPk7mwaV5rHPG6wKAobh8kQPqxqsjASOgUqZUcjjfaBIrQO8Gy1R2 PO5dADOjg0crOrVhId8icjM6EQhR8270XnFJy39Udm7gzy1IxEnPi6c5M+YGrm5we0BA g/K0u8mHrgCY/qdgqQNv0DS8xKpF/MKs4hwKIO6te7Kc5nfaPRauI81ArPGli4rW1Aj1 Ya6anCXQqUj6fa/pu/i7MRlDi1eRN3l+xyBE/SNZYLitUu4cq/VJ3TxnKiyFzSOW5CWZ mGuG+c8F/kkejC/8TuQTT4Ekyzs1/4zJLJwdkGSK+kMMOQdfBilZInIKvrgssDGfPHgx 5Quw== Received: by 10.182.108.71 with SMTP id hi7mr2593640obb.21.1339621132943; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:58:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.204.69 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> From: Eitan Adler Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:58:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Hans Petter Selasky Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnAd7xy6bVuVteAc6hNCqbyMwnQDWBm+w5av+iDq4IlnkKwqYHM0khm1Ef884uvHPc7+hok Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar , Ian Lepore Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:58:54 -0000 On 13 June 2012 12:55, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Wednesday 13 June 2012 15:21:29 Ian Lepore wrote: >> On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> > > Greetings, >> > > >> > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take= so >> > > long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux >> > > distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where >> > > FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be >> > > parallelized in the boot process, >> > >> > mostly kernel time. >> > >> > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >> > >> > true. system that never crash are not often booted >> >> An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a >> day, and boot time can be VERY important. =C2=A0Don't assume that the wa= y you >> use FreeBSD is the only way. >> >> -- Ian > > Try setting: > > sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=3D1 Can you explain in a bit more detail what this does and why it isn't defaul= t? --=20 Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 21:16:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3431065798 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:16:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from claudiu.vasadi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1BF8FC0C for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:16:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so1643313dad.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:16:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WbenUN63O04/gCkzUvWSQeGmpbtoUd0Ia/q7TGrzU0w=; b=ptdfqzLPug10W60uBZDE8dmjSbg6wjzUjPPcXubZoizZQBDmoUgKWuJ89F7hBf3/V8 PORkfMawn53iXxEF9jvPNVgjYL8DyZnh8748n3AJe9qZfessqt9YveT2qRqBRTnzdLmq 4liIbViD4k0Kpbug2wrY4f3QweeA/blJ4XjJKvWlVXSHEUl/eVRaXxq3YoP8svx6UAw4 aHuaL+QkAqhEFFmTIGaQvLvkfbU0/EuiXJ0S4Uqgd7SYIgFvSWNZgJQHiyU930HTjVX0 QaSPFpXMa5W4Z3u8KxKzsJT4EK0WcIGGMrEBxuFkaafEj3zaASzPhB3BOAuN7B+WpTwr sQeg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.135.201 with SMTP id pu9mr54390199pbb.146.1339622180244; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.50.74 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:16:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:16:20 +0200 Message-ID: From: claudiu vasadi To: Eitan Adler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar , Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:16:21 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 13 June 2012 12:55, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > On Wednesday 13 June 2012 15:21:29 Ian Lepore wrote: > >> On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> > > Greetings, > >> > > > >> > > I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it > take so > >> > > long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux > >> > > distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where > >> > > FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be > >> > > parallelized in the boot process, > >> > > >> > mostly kernel time. > >> > > >> > > Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > >> > > >> > true. system that never crash are not often booted > >> > >> An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a > >> day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you > >> use FreeBSD is the only way. > >> > >> -- Ian > > > > Try setting: > > > > sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=1 > > Can you explain in a bit more detail what this does and why it isn't > default? > > > -- > Eitan Adler > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > If you simplky do "sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait" you will see the explanation ;) -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 18:36:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119D0106566B; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D796B8FC16; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:36:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 569D21B403A; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FD8DD76.4080001@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:35:34 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Whitehorn References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:17:12 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:36:55 -0000 The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the Gentoo wiki: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would appreciate feedback regarding them. On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: >> On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long >>>> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >>>> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about >>>> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot >>>> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty >>>> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic >>>> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process >>>> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >>>> >>>> Anyone have any suggestions? >>>> >>>> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >>> The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as >>> is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There >>> are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup >>> or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the >>> most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). >>> Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized >>> rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their >>> resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's >>> possible with enough resources. >>> HTH, >>> -Garrett >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause >> licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. >> Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. >> >> If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be >> worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One > of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, > besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure > instead of the nightmare that is System V init. > -Nathan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 21:19:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF52106567E for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:19:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5408FC14 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:19:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so1782462obc.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:19:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=PpyCXZXE44WPyk2hA0aWvpBvwNysbHS4giokzV+iGNo=; b=nvVcw/VRC2hy7NdbietOo8xEh5fYWcLoyioR1YlqpH69d2OYoWmUnz54pqiGHuxm4N TrSKV3IwM46+pgc9PpbCV6w2i6WbSBPo+TMr7iufcjTMEWOF6NTYXBccuXSn7qUyE8rq zRptH8ZGUfwOpbG+RAllFRhBlWSQIvrBXJeDM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=PpyCXZXE44WPyk2hA0aWvpBvwNysbHS4giokzV+iGNo=; b=P+WZeo4vp0GRw0aIM4GgcAmj/l6ipmEfyooOVQ+z8U5CsZ0qRJdAp8FbYXwKbapvRk nUi3hLm4ujkk6ZdJc9u+TIq9tD8vecD2R7jfuhrpsX/2R0QYC2L/ohtcKaP7gctxzLHw G2TxqNA3nWx4XIs/0xhXx8uDQWyh87mojR/T0euVOd7jxnguqJ6ER/QhxqHIvLaPKR+8 ZqwxaubTThar3hKF+9ozuFGYfHC0sgk9gy2q1OUK65rOqStXqF3LNrxg94t7bmJwM0/a ciYzvzA4NQUeo2xef27ESfs+TOSXKqACZkMZj/kODpAL4FYt6qB4H+5+M/3GLo3HuB48 KGWw== Received: by 10.182.151.113 with SMTP id up17mr26213868obb.40.1339622369405; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:19:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.204.69 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:18:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> From: Eitan Adler Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:18:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: claudiu vasadi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlLUiDqKxv/tEMA5s9yo6LM3/Mtl2UZL51ZD+S8jM5dmGNFZvMc5J8DvW+6hQ0jkGv4OoTU Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar , Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:19:30 -0000 On 13 June 2012 14:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: > If you simplky do "sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait" you will see the > explanation ;) No, you see a one liner that only explains things if you already understand what is going on: hw.usb.no_boot_wait: No USB device enumerate waiting at boot. Does setting this sysctl mean that my { printer, phone, keyboard } won't function?*** -- Eitan Adler *** I'm being rhetorical here, but we don't have good sysctl documentation. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 21:27:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5559A10656E5; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:27:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from claudiu.vasadi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1908FC0A; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so1655189dad.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jlBwQxRgRtYUy3PXFNyUzJHcaczwqD4s9Bi0wdhRjYw=; b=Fe3AoN+cTAHv65hUwoyn9sFLpjaYg1myQgkuG1ZlGCHYl70Afh0XNHCc3qIeALynmH lhgsDSHAc4I0wLojKa3e5+Laf5rC3JHMFtyl5f/NuEu2jYR01ncT+dVw5XFpn2uzChxe S5Cxf7ZFQyIQ75wyaOUO/NsoYACR2LO5VE+AtYwCbAB/n2SVy8zXAFeOm/6Euhr2LxdV TNJ0Y6MEltvvS/xnF6zICGfkV5zG3Lt2+7QWCNbxR824F7j5yIJts89CAosxbOiYy+3/ erLGMULgoaJMhMjtvJJc/34NdwwHoT1qTiWWykx8xQSrY6RfJP4vSTOwNY2rVQTvo4SG iRNg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.202.136 with SMTP id ki8mr92740pbc.65.1339622852551; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.50.74 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD8DD76.4080001@gentoo.org> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> <4FD8DD76.4080001@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:27:32 +0200 Message-ID: From: claudiu vasadi To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org, Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:27:33 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. > It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it > to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. > > I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can > install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the > Gentoo wiki: > > > http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail > > If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would > appreciate feedback regarding them. > > On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > > On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: > >> On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk > wrote: > >>>> Greetings, > >>>> > >>>> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take > so long > >>>> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, > >>>> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD > takes about > >>>> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the > boot > >>>> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do > pretty > >>>> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a > generic > >>>> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot > process > >>>> that could be parallelized or eliminated. > >>>> > >>>> Anyone have any suggestions? > >>>> > >>>> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > >>> The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as > >>> is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There > >>> are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup > >>> or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the > >>> most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). > >>> Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized > >>> rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their > >>> resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's > >>> possible with enough resources. > >>> HTH, > >>> -Garrett > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >> Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause > >> licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. > >> Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. > >> > >> If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be > >> worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One > > of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, > > besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure > > instead of the nightmare that is System V init. > > -Nathan > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > @Eitan: I think is simply does what it says (does not wait for the usb devices to be ready, instead just activates the usb hub and then the device will signal when it;s ready). My low level programming sucks and this is just a hunch. PS: I tried it on my laptop and as far as I've seen, it behaves like that. corrections are welcomed. -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 21:35:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00466106568B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:35:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rflynn@acsalaska.net) Received: from mailhub.rachie.is-a-geek.net (rachie.is-a-geek.net [66.230.99.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4D68FC16 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:35:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (squeeze.lan.rachie.is-a-geek.net [192.168.2.30]) by mailhub.rachie.is-a-geek.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC6F7E876; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:35:19 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <4FD90795.60104@acsalaska.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:35:17 +0200 From: Mel Flynn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: claudiu vasadi References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Eitan Adler , Wojciech Puchar , Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Ian Lepore Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:35:22 -0000 On 13-6-2012 23:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: > > If you simplky do "sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait" you will see the > explanation ;) Probably why Eitan asked as that description: a) means nothing to people unfamiliar with device enumerations b) does not point to a manual page that explains how USB does device enumerations and why it would account for a significant chunk of the boot process. -- Mel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 21:50:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630EB106567A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:50:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED308FC1F for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:50:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhj8 with SMTP id hj8so4695818wib.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:from:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :in-reply-to:message-id:date:cc:to:mime-version:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=j71871aK01efalqMMFhx8qd7MqsQGXUhdyrDLrcduhI=; b=KcDmnrXfn7fo2K5ciRkwsty2/N9yDwj1aabA8xABi6YNi0jZ1ytG/ahOGH6DyDj4XJ Dg9b7X0cyyBZH4Zuuy0zBfQF+2OHaTJmR1e4PYw51U048HWs0zkQIE7JMo//vdbfSYSw D+r51pdMLrpBtJ5rwmJCTYz7Det6flJgQBEJbebAu+YtTNLs537dIHenIcNTt9Pa6ENb MIl6zKW1Kwy/cDtc/2yLDjxQaic1iTchjNHD0b9q3hPkLREWQFYxiV01VrVacOexM57B EGPPm/fGkNbd9QobHeZJgRPh2gMGXS5ofvhsZMbRSS9OCSslsqTIikCNNnW9AEacuG+K o29A== Received: by 10.216.145.13 with SMTP id o13mr11502560wej.95.1339624211010; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.8.89.66] ([92.90.20.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f19sm13176945wiw.11.2012.06.13.14.50.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT) References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> <201206131327.19688.jhb@freebsd.org> From: Damien Fleuriot Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <201206131327.19688.jhb@freebsd.org> Message-Id: <176F689D-1888-4B71-B03E-70108F464E29@my.gd> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:49:18 +0200 To: John Baldwin Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmPBhM/QUxpHkDoyZNhY+LC1uPuxLGA3Nsrt3pCQAdedwP566V3Z8OLdvOuqik6EpVKihTe Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Adrian Chadd , Matt Olander , MarkLinimon Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:50:12 -0000 On 13 Jun 2012, at 19:27, John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:52:28 am Adrian Chadd wrote: >> On 13 June 2012 05:53, John Baldwin wrote: >>=20 >>>> You don't need to change the FreeBSD culture. We'd love to do an 8.4 >>>> release. And an 8.5 release, and 8.6 release, etc. The problem is one >>>> of resources and time, not of culture/desire. >>>=20 >>> I disagree. The pace of X.0 releases is a deliberate choice FreeBSD >>> has made and directly impacts the number of "live" branches in existence= . >>> Given our developer base, we can't really support 3 branches concurrentl= y >>> (head + 2 stable like we have now with head, 9, and 8). Having longer l= ived >>> stable branches requires either increasing resources to support exising >>> releases longer, or slowing the pace of X.0 releases (but more aggressiv= ely >>> merging things from HEAD back). The latter case, especially, is part of= >>> the culture and would be a choice we as a Project would have to make. >>=20 >> Right, but I don't think the freebsd project would really mind or >> change much if more people came on board to handle legacy releases and >> support them. >>=20 >> If you're a company that uses FreeBSD stable releases, please consider >> contributing engineering resources and/or donations to the Foundation >> to improve the support of said stable releases. :) >=20 > No, that doesn't actually work. Having additional support on a stable > branch requires someone able to 1) commit changes to stable branches and > 2) be able to cut newer releases from said branches (i.e. doing the work > of re@). You cannot get that as an outside entity. It requires buy-in > from the Project itself. >=20 Jumping in. I for one, as a fbsd admin on corporate servers ( read not commiter), would d= early like less releases but a more aggressive MFC approach. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 22:06:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96637106566C for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:06:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 523078FC14 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:06:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5DM6Gx0011877; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5DM6GVe011874; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:06:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Richard Yao In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:06:23 -0000 On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Warren Block wrote: > On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Richard Yao wrote: > >> Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause >> licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. >> Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. >> >> If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be >> worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. > > There have been at least two attempts to parallelize the rc scripts. The more > recent one was posted on the forums. AFAIR, one advantage it had was no or > few changes to the rc scripts, and something like 40% improvement in startup > time. I'll post a link if I can find it. > > Startup time is a big deal for notebooks. Thanks to pointers from forum members and moderators, links to various attempts to improve startup time: An older attempt in -current: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/rc-improvements-wanted-td3911390.html The forums post: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=25822 And a newer effort from the PC-BSD folks which sounds very promising: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.pcbsd.testing/6225 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 22:19:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC73106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:19:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02906179E99; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:18:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FD911BD.3090505@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:18:37 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andriy Gapon References: <4FD05C16.9040905@FreeBSD.org> <20120607084738.GT85127@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <4FD06CD3.3080602@FreeBSD.org> <20120607095741.GA1361@reks> <4FD0BAC6.6000304@FreeBSD.org> <4FD0EEB1.10103@FreeBSD.org> <4FD37727.60705@FreeBSD.org> <4FD89A8E.6070103@icyb.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <4FD89A8E.6070103@icyb.net.ua> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: boot menu option to disable graphics mode X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:19:52 -0000 On 06/13/2012 06:50 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 09/06/2012 19:17 Doug Barton said the following: >> If this were a problem we didn't already have a solution for, I'd be >> much more interested in what you're proposing. > > I wonder if you were in the same mindset when you worked on service(8). > This is not to doubt service(8) usefulness, of course. Just drawing a parallel. > >> But in no particular order ... >> >> 1. This is not something most users would have to do very often, if at all. > > 1. Let's not generalize. In order to make intelligent decisions about what changes to include and what changes to exclude we have to measure both the costs, and the benefits. Part of measuring the latter is knowing how many of our users will benefit from the proposed change. The percentage of desktop users that we have is (regrettably) a very small percentage of our total demographic. The percentage of those users who would benefit from this proposed change is smaller still. OTOH, every single FreeBSD user is affected by changes to the boot process. Furthermore, we already have a non-trivial public perception that FreeBSD is a hobbyist OS, by and for the developers first and foremost. I don't want to do anything that contributes to that perception without good reason. > 2. It is not a coincidence that I started this thread on this mailing list. I get that. But changes we make to the boot process aren't restricted to the members of this mailing list. >> 2. We have a variety of different login managers, several of which do >> things subtly differently, all of which would need ongoing support. > > The solution as proposed of now does not require any support or modifications. Which solution are you discussing? Marcin's? I think his idea has a lot of merit, but in reference to your particular use case (inhibiting X from starting) it requires the user to know which particular knob (or knobs) is responsible. That's not necessarily a show-stopper, and people who are likely to need this are likely to be able to figure that out. If you're talking about a different proposed solution, please clarify. > If people would be willing to implement additional support, then probably they > would be doing that because they would want to have that, and to support that. The latter bit is what I'm most concerned about, especially long term. >> 3. While the changes you're proposing sound simple, the startup stuff >> has some subtle interactions that we don't like to disrupt without good >> reason. > > This is too vague to comment. That doesn't make the point invalid. :) If we have a specific solution that people are excited about, with patches, I'm happy to give it a more detailed review (along with freebsd-rc@ of course). >> It's also worth pointing out that if all you need is a shell at boot >> time, you can still do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get that, without having to change >> anything. > > Thank you for opening my eyes. And sorry for using sarcasm again. FWIW I realize that *you* know that already. What I'm trying to do is to get an idea of what people want to accomplish, and make sure that we're not reinventing the wheel. > No, that's not what I want. I want X to not start. Thanks for clarifying. >> And if you find yourself needing to prevent the login manager >> from starting more often than not, just disable it by default and start >> it with 'service onestart', or use startx. > > I do need it that often that I'd have to inconvenience each boot. > But I also want convenience those time when I need it. > >> My point being that this doesn't come with zero costs, and has very >> little benefit. That usually spells "no" in my book. > > I understand your point. On the other hand, I find the proposed change to have > measurable benefit and insignificant cost. This is "yes" in my book. I think that we disagree on both the relative costs and the relative benefits. That's why I wanted to express my concerns so that others could weigh in. > Please also note that I am not asking you to do any work. That sounds great in theory. However given the amount of time that I've spent on refining the boot process, as well as trying to get the boot time down as low as possible; and given the overwhelming importance of the boot process to the OS generally, I have concerns about what you're proposing. Just to be clear, I'm not saying, "NO!," I'm saying that if we're going to make changes in this area that we need to understand the landscape very well before we move forward. My other concern, to be perfectly blunt, is that this project not become something where changes are made, and then when users report problems with those changes they are told that they are on their own to come up with the debugging, analysis, and/or fixes for those problems. If you're saying that resources exist to support the design, implementation, testing, commit to HEAD, support in HEAD, MFC(s), and support in the older branches; then I'm glad to hear that. If we don't have those resources, that's a factor we need to consider before moving forward. Doug From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 22:38:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E0C1065672 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:38:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from esa-scalar.mail.uoguelph.ca (esa-scalar.mail.uoguelph.ca [66.199.40.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A148FC18 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (new.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.93.37]) by esa-scalar.mail.uoguelph.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5DMcEYq025157; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:38:14 -0400 Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD1DB3F62; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:38:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Macklem To: Mark Saad Message-ID: <1796451368.1752664.1339627094133.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.17.91.202] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2692 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2692) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:38:25 -0000 Mark Saad wrote: > I'll share my 2 cents here, as someone who maintains a decent sided > FreeBSD install. > > 1. FreeBSD needs to make end users more comfortable with using a > Dot-Ohh release; and at the time of the dot-ohh release > a timeline for the next point releases should be made. * > > 2. Having three supported releases is showing issues , and brings up > the point of why was 9.0 not released as 8.3 ? ** > > 3. The end users appear to want less releases, and for them to be > supported longer . > > * A rough outline would do and it should be on the main release page > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/ > > ** Yes I understand that 9.0 had tons of new features that were added > and its not exactly a point release upgrade from 8.2 , however one can > argue that if it were there would be less yelling about when version X > is going to be EOL'd and when will version Y be released. > One thought here might be to revisit the "Kernel APIs can only change on a major release" rule. It seems to me that some KPIs could be "frozen" for longer periods than others, maybe? For example: - If device driver KPIs were frozen for a longer period of time, there wouldn't be the challenge of backporting drivers for newer hardware to the older systems. vs - The VFS/VOP interface. As far as I know, there are currently 2 out of source tree file systems (OpenAFS and FUSE) and there are FreeBSD committers involved in both of these. As such, making a VFS change within a minor release cycle might not be a big problem, so long as all the file systems in the source tree are fixed and the maintainers for the above 2 file systems were aware of the change and when they needed to release a patch/rebuild their module. - Similarily, are there any out of source tree network stacks? It seems that this rule is where the controversy of major vs minor release changes comes in? Just a thought, rick > > > -- > mark saad | nonesuch@longcount.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 23:01:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44E01065670 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:01:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cattelan@thebarn.com) Received: from x.digitalelves.com (x.digitalelves.com [209.98.77.55]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846B38FC0A for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from macpro00.x.thebarn.com (c-66-41-26-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net [66.41.26.220]) (authenticated bits=0) by x.digitalelves.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5DMnuod078780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:49:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cattelan@thebarn.com) Message-ID: <4FD91913.20607@thebarn.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:49:55 -0500 From: Russell Cattelan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20336.1339571779@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <20336.1339571779@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigB838464551549E703833768C" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:01:34 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigB838464551549E703833768C Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050802040009090709000206" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050802040009090709000206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6/13/12 2:16 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Wojci > ech Puchar writes: >=20 > One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers > serially & synchronously. Yes definitely. I have been looking into how to potentially defer or parallelize device_attach'es. Defer is turning out to be hard enough since each system is has different requirements to reach a state where it can run /sbin/init. I've started with the John Baldwin's multipass work and have a system stops probing/attaching devices and allows the boot to continue on. The remaining passes I'm triggering from userspace once the system is up.= This is all very crude at this point and has been an some work just to understand how the kernel startup code all links together. Note systemd looks interesting from from a demand based startup scheme much like apples launchd. (note systemd uses linux process groups so porting it would take some effort) Ideally it would be nice to get to the point where many devices are only attached once there is a demand for it. Say network interfaces for example: attach it once the init scripts need to config it and then hopefully in an async fashion. Unfortunately that will require locking a bit more fine grain than the current "Giant" lock. -Russell >=20 --------------050802040009090709000206-- --------------enigB838464551549E703833768C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/ZGRMACgkQNRmM+OaGhBhdWACfdiYT9Jn+xELa3qOnK8FNm20Y lX0An1l2IuHPa50ZGNORnqL/f3E6XcFW =OSKA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigB838464551549E703833768C-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 23:27:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA57106567F for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:27:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rflynn@acsalaska.net) Received: from mailhub.rachie.is-a-geek.net (rachie.is-a-geek.net [66.230.99.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2531B8FC14 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:27:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (squeeze.lan.rachie.is-a-geek.net [192.168.2.30]) by mailhub.rachie.is-a-geek.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CC17E876; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:27:11 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <4FD921CD.10706@acsalaska.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:27:09 +0200 From: Mel Flynn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Cooper References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Brandon Falk Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:27:13 -0000 On 12-6-2012 0:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long >> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about >> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot >> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty >> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic >> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process >> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >> >> Anyone have any suggestions? >> >> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. > > The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as > is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There > are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup > or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the > most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). > Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized > rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their > resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's > possible with enough resources. I realize people are working on this and that it's generally a good thing, however - please don't underestimate the importance of getting an accurate list of what boots when and equally important how it shuts down. rcorder is vary valuable in diagnosing why certain services fail to start or throw fits, but you have to be able to match it with output from the rc script (something that not all scripts do I might add). -- Mel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 23:29:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14C61065678 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:29:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4F08FC1E for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:29:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so1221365yhg.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:29:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=IM6AAT1lkTTsRek0T2THtQbKaqpKvKvhkhHliZlToM4=; b=k66ZkIOV2M/wNZaD2kWKoXDz13zJCCrWfSuwv8/5bytETe1eAX7HX3THpjzbfZallG FOXLG7T5KNeW1kIxRZhx5ic7N+Ta3vfcjtN7xV041+Ko2FkTeYcTDG/m7fxAqYZBBdbm 30EHCEe1hdjPe7jJI4EYK+KbhmBhqvU6stjGypVOucsmH48tp8r7skcer+eLbIxgcWXF FbxEQZW5iCuu40HOJKJnldhBcJ4XAYgbHTZfVFvS3AQGATETy7denYtAKLlrx6qZ6ohb qmQMLi00tcErfsduN/gKRGojQPp4WqHVXebQy7z7zDvvb1pduIUvyqwiiPkzz0g/UNLS eMNw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.29.137 with SMTP id k9mr26936341oeh.23.1339630142897; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.53.1 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:29:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD91913.20607@thebarn.com> References: <20336.1339571779@critter.freebsd.dk> <4FD91913.20607@thebarn.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:29:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Russell Cattelan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:29:04 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Russell Cattelan wrote: > On 6/13/12 2:16 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message , > Wojci > > ech Puchar writes: > > > > One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers > > serially & synchronously. > Yes definitely. > > I have been looking into how to potentially defer or parallelize > device_attach'es. Defer is turning out to be hard enough since each > system is has different requirements to reach a state where it can > run /sbin/init. I've started with the John Baldwin's multipass work > and have a system stops probing/attaching devices and allows the boot > to continue on. > > The remaining passes I'm triggering from userspace once the system is up. > > This is all very crude at this point and has been an some work just > to understand how the kernel startup code all links together. > > Note systemd looks interesting from from a demand based startup scheme > much like apples launchd. (note systemd uses linux process groups so > porting it would take some effort) > > Ideally it would be nice to get to the point where many devices are only > attached once there is a demand for it. Say network interfaces for > example: attach it once the init scripts need to config it and then > hopefully in an async fashion. Unfortunately that will require locking > a bit more fine grain than the current "Giant" lock. > > -Russell > > > > To reduce the boot time , my opinion is as follows : During install or by using a program , generate a "Hardware Profile File" . By editing it , mark some devices "No check" ( for example , a network card or PS/2 mouse or key board , is not connected , RS-232 , Firewire , unused SATA ports , unused IDE ports , etc. , then it is not necessary to check them . ) During boot , first read that "Hardware Profile File" . Only check ports marked as "Check" . After completion of boot , the other ports may checked to update "Hardware Profile File" if it is requested in "Hardware Profile File" . Later on , assume a new device is attached . Run the "Hardware Profile" program to regenerate the "Hardware Profile File" , or by using dmesg , manually add this device into "Hardware Profile File" . For removable devices , if some USB , etc. ports are not used , they all may be marked as "No Check" , for example internal USB ports , unused back panel ports . I do not know such a scheme is useful or not , or usable or not . If I were a boot manager program writer , I would try it . To my knowledge which I may be wrong , at present there is no such a facility . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 13 23:33:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B97106566B for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:33:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from yoshi.bluerosetech.com (yoshi.bluerosetech.com [174.136.100.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FF78FC14 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:33:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vivi.cat.pdx.edu (vivi.cat.pdx.edu [IPv6:2610:10:20:214::6]) by yoshi.bluerosetech.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CA53E600B; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:8643:970:211:43ff:fe70:5826] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:8643:970:211:43ff:fe70:5826]) by vivi.cat.pdx.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38ED924C8A; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD92190.1070900@bluerosetech.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:26:08 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120421 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eitan Adler References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:33:31 -0000 On 2012-06-13 14:18, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 13 June 2012 14:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: >> If you simplky do "sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait" you will see the >> explanation ;) > > No, you see a one liner that only explains things if you already > understand what is going on: I believe it pertains to mounting root from a USB device. When set to 0, usb_attach tells VFS to wait on the USB device being attached. This results in not mounting root until the USB busses are all fully explored. If you don't rely on any USB devices for multi-user start-up, set this to 1 and let the kernel launch multi-user without waiting for USB probing. This is nice for those systems where the BIOS takes a long time to release control of any hubs with keyboards attached. IMO I'd rather have my gear do the boot process in a well-ordered fashion and get everything right, than try to shave off a handful of seconds at the risk of unreliable booting. For servers, the baseboard, OOB management, and SCSI BIOSes can mean minutes between power-on and OS bootstrap, so an extra 20 seconds is nothing. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 01:45:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE09106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:45:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@delphij.net) Received: from anubis.delphij.net (anubis.delphij.net [64.62.153.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCFF8FC08 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:45:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from delta.delphij.net (drawbridge.ixsystems.com [206.40.55.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by anubis.delphij.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7659FC7F; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:45:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=delphij.net; s=anubis; t=1339638340; bh=GgbCSdI/YXj6wuYEu7+Uz21cpRz6oG4DpFADxFfYQDc=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=Bz7EALJUi7L2Of+lO45+e/deDo9GYevDHDXIPXpv4TQM4RAaRGtUloopuap9/ZLLz 1SanKe6vzk2bl183pOuX6bD9syAYDiliY14fKtWYSIb9aV7w2pF+3KJMHq9HYyxuGl cOSBkCRVVwF5ZF/JiI8eV6Tw4oLDL3e+0AX6PmuI= Message-ID: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:45:36 -0700 From: Xin Li Organization: The FreeBSD Project MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, d@delphij.net Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: d@delphij.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:45:40 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 05/26/12 08:06, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > is it possible. suppose i have 1GB file with my data and 100 1 > megabyte parts of it is no longer needed. i could reorganize that > file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" > holes? I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like brk() works for memory. Cheers, - -- Xin LI https://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! Live free or die -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJP2UJAAAoJEG80Jeu8UPuzvaMH/Rb0IwPZV1xyapMoSv71FQPz 0yhAMLamNBEIRf2mvBZHp9ASLBRDYZsDtU+EAFelS56hBkuYywSb//m+cTeQpqT3 Wz5713DRtrpi6X7KrGCFmtpzhCiYyS11YLBGWIe6PjBFNdF+dveNGh5TPy4bKmVy j4cx+a3mHEdXOinayUzfPI1wpxF1eI/6cIiP0G5wy0VAApbk5qgE4PVlqZa8zKFF 4sePD6vsYTQ+3PVMwkfeJiX8E1ZMKAo/boD8Hw3jU24kY5n4bC+Qcqvm/JCFArGr QfA0K+TZ7R86lfs7yyjhmnf3fSBZVTOG4anYOAeOqgghORL43JhGjKZcDRw2CjM= =Y8H3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 02:42:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00655106566B for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:42:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87EC48FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:42:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so1197144wer.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:42:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GZYDpNHEWpWH79+TVTbTSp+Vjet3wuGfHEVbSiFWi3o=; b=sxwd2Tdvk8s0EpGI1kp7BAGx4u210vc+5NTzrpqpKsGvr6PniYw9QjckdPS9ScCHWs oIO0IE1vlxJNsza1ML3MlwCI5WJWsg0FeXxCwMSCTi4XJm3Kav2l2Nj3DtZlDe7QyYuI nEgwqDiLhUT7ecc16o2YCqbpxzIdl+CNrrA9ZIieicIUEDX8fyGNjwHHHuULU0yYgGC9 +qaSQwl+jtTbAQt2Wz2EvSfNeDFDuEe3p1KvOp/CWj8U8vUL+cCKP68ulQkDSPAEyEQJ p3GnuyIQMOBtHPcDv0Bh6TJDP1TX8NekcwD+Ppi66wiww8VHxO5yigGnEzUwS74eAWIU xAcg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.143.195 with SMTP id l45mr24240wej.49.1339641760381; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.7.105 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:42:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: grarpamp To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:13:18 +0000 Subject: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:42:42 -0000 Realized my earlier related post was a bit misplaced in questions@. So I just refer to it here by link, ok then that is all. http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=968504+0+current/freebsd-questions From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 04:26:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868721065670; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:26:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF818FC1D; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:26:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 9F25056205; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:26:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:26:02 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20120614042602.GA6638@lonesome.com> References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:30:11 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Matt Olander Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:26:03 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated > sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, > committing it, etc. I'm going to agree with Garrett here. IMHO we've reached (or surpassed) the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spare time to. This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" branch. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 04:30:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487C31065772; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:30:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3A28FC15; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:30:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so2054540dad.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:30:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9aZWWjZaztQqHIgHfpjo1PB24k0mAkoF6HpAYH8RD+k=; b=AVhALNLZ9l0wabIcnWdswCj+XYMv5KL8iLnOcroN5RhG7DRkRmgxTf9zMYp385g/85 OgnfTaS34LxMipMrY11kosm7YRzd5j/SoiZCLuvlc2UWM5gm9YF/WGG1928RjcYujhu/ 7gRnqePDGLyNha9yjZI//8fsgMBRRXaBvtdJuT+rPQS1M3zuJLyaLpyvl6k6YAShIEvN C7AbecHQUJ7Wi5rz0DnW6A3wt+vnMzL9eaVfyrp4Zm9xOUILOTXoku/nGcMqwrrsSGNP W6lNqvSCTZ8xUsMLb32y+IPCTVKyIP7Q1ezR7n+yCzgBbtUGcMxystOte9iH7NRCaYnF /vCA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.223.167 with SMTP id qv7mr3387612pbc.127.1339648219724; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:30:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120614042602.GA6638@lonesome.com> References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120614042602.GA6638@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:30:19 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PTTN8zXF86atVSWm12Ydt7agmgU Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Garrett Cooper , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Matt Olander Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:30:20 -0000 On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated >> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, >> committing it, etc. > > I'm going to agree with Garrett here. =A0IMHO we've reached (or surpassed= ) > the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spare > time to. =A0This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" branc= h. I totally concur. Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 04:48:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D342106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D9C8FC12 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5E4mEad072555; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:48:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5E4mEue072552; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:48:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:48:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: d@delphij.net In-Reply-To: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> Message-ID: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:48:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:32 -0000 >> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" >> holes? > > I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like > brk() works for memory. BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB but uses 5GB. i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and then...do nothing. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 04:50:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81BA51065674 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:50:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D264C8FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:50:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5E4oYLF072598; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:50:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5E4oYHw072595; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:50:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:50:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: John Kozubik In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:50:35 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:50:37 -0000 > Friends, > > I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 listed - > can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? does it matter. cvsup RELENG_8 and you see updates are done constantly. just sometime somebody decide to change number :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 05:19:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCB2F1065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:19:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe08.c2i.net [212.247.154.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667F98FC12 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:19:01 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop015.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe08.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 286748779; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:13:52 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:13:23 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/9.0-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <4FD90795.60104@acsalaska.net> In-Reply-To: <4FD90795.60104@acsalaska.net> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206140713.23570.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: Ian Lepore , Eitan Adler , Mel Flynn , claudiu vasadi , Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:19:02 -0000 On Wednesday 13 June 2012 23:35:17 Mel Flynn wrote: > On 13-6-2012 23:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: > > If you simplky do "sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait" you will see the > > explanation ;) > > Probably why Eitan asked as that description: > a) means nothing to people unfamiliar with device enumerations > b) does not point to a manual page that explains how USB does device > enumerations and why it would account for a significant chunk of the > boot process. It's not dangerous. It only means that you can't boot off a USB disk for example, because the USB stack will then not wait for the BOOT device at mount-root time, if you set this options. --HPS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 05:25:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84C1106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:25:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904CE8FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:25:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2425406obc.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:25:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=fAYJqdn7AP5wdZWa2d52pT+9kXAqdz/AX62lWLoxCCM=; b=r+//SmEW+JeTtF1qQSWiFS0AA9stFgm4B51zRsk9mpuWBNWVYP3sT7+dAzc1oGQzXd CAL65tWEJ2bVYUHnI8nxY0FW1yNDeGooZmFPda2HCxr19tchqHIgyb1Afzt7aO1uG10i 6b4E2tbNPyKTjYl2XAxp7d7JRphC9XCCC0Wd4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=fAYJqdn7AP5wdZWa2d52pT+9kXAqdz/AX62lWLoxCCM=; b=PurD75Fvz1PWenLcEfuFVAYTb0lBBsHKwHFu5xRFEOb34wY5EtX2qXP4CmRhBAncqE i563YKy0VAhWkcCcbXOWNjLzjL3XTTu/+pC2n72VRQy8cdjhlKUR5LojpD7OFfL4r6cw NIIdZpWOFv0RI8TvuPZ/g+W55eV/oLlT7eEVcMYaOLZ8hpqWCko+pPq/TEp5grX4wb6S kp/aHc6f8QcCi3EofIU7ehct14adp4dMrMT9Bvh2o9PQfUkIRwlSRIu4PtnooFmT0QPI wHNO5dHg+Vkb9PGmD0wCQC6sPU9H12zB3dB+FgL+ngGukUtoegthndYGplK0HcgyUR9x 4jag== Received: by 10.182.164.102 with SMTP id yp6mr317447obb.66.1339651534169; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:25:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.204.69 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:25:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201206140713.23570.hselasky@c2i.net> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <4FD90795.60104@acsalaska.net> <201206140713.23570.hselasky@c2i.net> From: Eitan Adler Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:25:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Hans Petter Selasky Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkyEIJnD385JLeJfeEcAo07blekLKgyI9BRd6rBCmpFrPjiTxuhUVH/EJgwxlr2YTw9gAQY Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mel Flynn , claudiu vasadi , Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:25:35 -0000 On 13 June 2012 22:13, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > It's not dangerous. It only means that you can't boot off a USB disk for > example, because the USB stack will then not wait for the BOOT device at > mount-root time, if you set this options. This is what I expected, but it should be documented somewhere. Thanks! -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 05:26:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82C11065678 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:26:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from royce.williams@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CF58FC15 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:26:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so1222022ghb.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:26:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EY/7GzkQ3Bh0mEqWq+IxWLW1F4Kzc9yxjbx4W8xAu3M=; b=x1hzYLXuHPzrydUw/+FYjBpQqpLkjPrieL4BywXRB89E+0NC2HSxbjHkLOGf/Eecs1 RtzbySGG63IHXirMMqLejzA+S5rABeHel61+4ZGBdnn72tTH7Y5n9R/KDZ8Yc7oZBnbk 3SzYCT3pnGVeNy7wpcjtAN+cTZltTk1GaRZtZHiIEYFXJK5coLkPCw2bTqavLguoHapf FFpYiUh2cmjr3mIcNbM55c89HMPCb3gglH+R5BoUlx+WDfQG7K/OrPinOyfYRj/evXf5 CeeBR1i6DZKtJj5b1lraTUZz6emgcoGTf5Y7knOEbUdbZRWLqRb2YSYkKF7D45Gs97jc N7SA== Received: by 10.50.161.198 with SMTP id xu6mr159104igb.40.1339651563432; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:26:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.90.229 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:25:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120614042602.GA6638@lonesome.com> From: Royce Williams Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:25:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:26:10 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated >>> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, >>> committing it, etc. >> >> I'm going to agree with Garrett here. =A0IMHO we've reached (or surpasse= d) >> the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spare >> time to. =A0This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" bran= ch. > > I totally concur. Ah, but you can get the same effect by freeing up those engineers to work on the hard stuff. This is my usual soapbox (see [1], [2]): Push more of the mundane work out to the edges, so that the developers can focus more on the core (like more releases/features/testing/projects). Here are some ideas. Only developers can implement them, but they would start paying for themselves immediately ... in developer time. - Frequent snapshots, with tools to automatically apply them and roll them back (freebsd-update + ZFS snapshots?). - Tools to do binary walks of snapshots to pinpoint when a bug appeared. (Think 'git bisect' + freebsd-update.) - A taggable FAQ that supports faceted search, and a quick way to add entries (or propose them for approval). - A way to search for known fixes to transient bugs and hardware issues [1]= . - General debugging and testing tools for non-developers, including tools for filing smarter bug reports. - A way to automatically upload crash dumps for bulk analysis (like Windows does). - A dmesg analyzer that downloads a list during install, and looks for known issues (or workarounds) with your hardware for that version of FreeBSD (or recommend a different version!). Tools like these would also help more people achieve the "I tried it, and it Just Worked" moment. This can keep people's interest long enough to give FreeBSD a serious try. Some of them might enter the volunteer pool. I'm not a developer, but if some of the above could be tackled, they might free up enough Developer Equivalents (DEs, a term which I have just made up) to be more than worth the effort. Royce [1]. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-doc/2011-September/018865.h= tml [2]. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2012-January/037310= .html From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 05:42:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6E81065672 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E7C8FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:42:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C446A6026; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:42:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.0x20.net Received: from mail.0x20.net ([217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OiTOSbgU4Qjk; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:42:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AF276A601E; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:42:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5E5gtKL028520; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:42:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5E5gqXQ026733; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:42:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:42:52 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <20120614054252.GZ5592@e-new.0x20.net> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <4FD90795.60104@acsalaska.net> <201206140713.23570.hselasky@c2i.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nydc3TyZakb7ip9W" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201206140713.23570.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.3-RELEASE-p2 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Eitan Adler , claudiu vasadi , Wojciech Puchar , Mel Flynn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:42:57 -0000 --nydc3TyZakb7ip9W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 07:13:23AM +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Wednesday 13 June 2012 23:35:17 Mel Flynn wrote: > > On 13-6-2012 23:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: > > > If you simplky do "sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait" you will see the > > > explanation ;) > >=20 > > Probably why Eitan asked as that description: > > a) means nothing to people unfamiliar with device enumerations > > b) does not point to a manual page that explains how USB does device > > enumerations and why it would account for a significant chunk of the > > boot process. >=20 > It's not dangerous. It only means that you can't boot off a USB disk for= =20 > example, because the USB stack will then not wait for the BOOT device at= =20 > mount-root time, if you set this options.=20 Can we disable that by default and add a boot menu entry like "Boot from USB Disk" to enable it? --nydc3TyZakb7ip9W Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/ZedwACgkQKc512sD3afhksQCZAQDaPRmcVYbrfsG+fGnqRHuF yKUAoIrzvPb/DT5MxQqCQwHHVQZF2aJF =qxQR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nydc3TyZakb7ip9W-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 06:06:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F375106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:06:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049548FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:06:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so2482683obc.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=A+NrDkl3xXZNURsqlanpOJd1qAqDy+rKncYQxP7WoqI=; b=ml72MJ/tnv/udEn4DDy8mkcEjTfHqm4fBt75YYOfga0VnQp7s/5kEh6NKMK8Cau+Uo Qh7tzF8jT4CpAdjV5LIJycxTfxVm61oMiSjge8/aLl3ac5uupOXsLiub4jWOcwA1bN3+ S2pkzjyfcWT928LwLoDmyWmAxB0i8GcAr9KgwO4CP6MAcBX9Rr4iJrKOrcYrHuoNvJze yetK15nujPgv+tCI/nfRiNtXWIb4O+rwtrgpOs5RtVIDRNvMblBZJmPv78OQH/ewsArs SpMQ8xOISmXT3QVpV+kXKQLXM8OHx8Id/qdViZUpnj42Z0A2zziAJ7apAV7ik4+Dn0Pi SiVg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.51.100 with SMTP id j4mr394059obo.78.1339653975650; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:06:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Royce Williams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Solving the great resource problem, take 42 (Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:06:16 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Royce Williams wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: >>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated >>>> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, >>>> committing it, etc. >>> >>> I'm going to agree with Garrett here. =A0IMHO we've reached (or surpass= ed) >>> the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spare >>> time to. =A0This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" bra= nch. >> >> I totally concur. > > Ah, but you can get the same effect by freeing up those engineers to > work on the hard stuff. > > This is my usual soapbox (see [1], [2]): =A0Push more of the mundane > work out to the edges, so that the developers can focus more on the > core (like more releases/features/testing/projects). > > Here are some ideas. =A0Only developers can implement them, but they > would start paying for themselves immediately ... in developer time. > > - Frequent snapshots, with tools to automatically apply them and roll > them back (freebsd-update + ZFS snapshots?). > > - Tools to do binary walks of snapshots to pinpoint when a bug > appeared. =A0(Think 'git bisect' + freebsd-update.) > > - A taggable FAQ that supports faceted search, and a quick way to add > entries (or propose them for approval). > > - A way to search for known fixes to transient bugs and hardware issues [= 1]. > > - General debugging and testing tools for non-developers, including > tools for filing smarter bug reports. > > - A way to automatically upload crash dumps for bulk analysis (like > Windows does). > > - A dmesg analyzer that downloads a list during install, and looks for > known issues (or workarounds) with your hardware for that version of > FreeBSD (or recommend a different version!). > > Tools like these would also help more people achieve the "I tried it, > and it Just Worked" moment. =A0This can keep people's interest long > enough to give FreeBSD a serious try. =A0Some of them might enter the > volunteer pool. > > I'm not a developer, but if some of the above could be tackled, they > might free up enough Developer Equivalents (DEs, a term which I have > just made up) to be more than worth the effort. No offense, but speaking from experience, these are referred to as "wishlist projects" -- many of which get shelved until developers get enough time to work on them. This makes more sense when there are more resources so engineers can work in a less distracted manner as BSD is not Linux as far as BSD's design stratagem is concerned . This is really starting to get philosophical and away from the original intent behind the original post, but given past discussions and the fact that these topics end up going around in circles/cycling through periodically (I've seen it on ports, current/stable/hackers, etc), here's my perspective after having read these discussions a few times and given what I've seen with the project over the last 5-10 years (granted, I've become a jaded realistic/pessimist in past years, so YMMV): Problem Statement (or the "I want to have my cake and eat it too" Issue): - Users want stability, but want latest and greatest driver code and features. These are [generally] mutually exclusive. Impedance: - There aren't enough volunteer resources to do what consumers of FreeBSD want beyond what's being done, with exception of developers and other volunteers going above and beyond in extraordinary circumstances to get the job done, or doing something his/her day job requires. The former case tends to be more of the exception than the norm. The latter happens sporadically. - There are plenty of companies out there wanting to "solve this problem of release cycles", but no one group (or groups) is standing up and actively ponying up dedicated resources on a regular basis to make this a reality. What happens: Trivial tasks, like MFCing, testing, triaging, etc are being done by "lead developers" in a particular domain, which steals cycles from enhancement/bugfixing work in those areas [or other surrounding areas]; instead of investing time writing regression tests so others can do the work, no one other than the lead developers in a given area can do the work if it requires domain knowledge and/or specific hardware resources to complete the task. Eventually something happens, the developer becomes less active in the community (gets a family, no longer does FreeBSD work, gets a job, number of different things), and depending on the bus factor the particular area being maintained may remain unmaintained for some time. Alternatively, contact is done infrequently enough that interested parties willing to contribute code get discouraged and "go off and do their own thing" (be it support their own custom distro, switch to another OS, etc). In the former case, there's duplication of effort, some (or most) of which is discarded at a later date, depending on how active the supporting group. In the latter case, the party won't partake in FreeBSD, and instead the project/community misses out on an outreach opportunity. Some bugs end up going into the PR queue, where (if lucky) the item is resolved promptly; timeframes vary depending on the category, the maintainer, and the difficulty of the bug, but sometimes it can take days, months, or years. Otherwise it rots in the PR queue for some time. So, rather than do things this way by posting wishlist projects that won't happen in the immediate future, why not make developers' lives easier by spreading the load, increasing the domain knowledge in one or more areas, and improving the community in the meantime? Affected companies/the Foundation should have more than enough funds to devote towards a handful of staff to make this a reality, even if the position is part-time. Remember: low hanging fruit -> more likely to succeed -> quicker/better RoI results. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 06:32:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A5E1065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:32:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from royce.williams@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gh0-f182.google.com (mail-gh0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF4D8FC12 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:32:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghbz22 with SMTP id z22so1248042ghb.13 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:32:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=e3XgZjxxxQv4cxJEo86s9FQk6h8NBznI75HADRc6qfw=; b=pA4pgRto8oFmGeD4+ZnwPNRLkjSECmYuus6Rupb/dAB4Nmyx0MEwD65dU2OBJbleVg Vqe3duHMQ6s67+gGGDAQLU1BDGoJlwps861mLJ2+NzO4aSu+LM781jN+6O/U3IlDf5vF bkC9WvJcJP2pU/rFaLJMDHYnCizyKnbnnhGBNVB9uskczBkOchdf1TzvliK308bd0Iza BVqRjupQfACe8sFpCsfhXlZjuWIUSNVCFHv6BF3IZeEVqvSx2BB6PlJS0WPJe9frxns3 JBiXB7p7f5/nCDFJtcU8aCyTmbaXziKBrpKsjOiNAqVO76MBCwwYYE3q5jPEIsTSrMdr D2BA== Received: by 10.50.161.198 with SMTP id xu6mr212556igb.40.1339655548351; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:32:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.90.229 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:32:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Royce Williams Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:32:08 -0800 Message-ID: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Solving the great resource problem, take 42 (Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:32:29 -0000 Resending to list, forgot to hit reply-all. On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Royce Williams > wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>> On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>>> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated >>>>> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, >>>>> committing it, etc. [snip] >> Ah, but you can get the same effect by freeing up those engineers to >> work on the hard stuff. >> >> This is my usual soapbox (see [1], [2]): Push more of the mundane >> work out to the edges, so that the developers can focus more on the >> core (like more releases/features/testing/projects). [my wishlist snipped] > No offense, but speaking from experience, these are referred to as > "wishlist projects" -- many of which get shelved until developers get > enough time to work on them. This makes more sense when there are more > resources so engineers can work in a less distracted manner as BSD is > not Linux as far as BSD's design stratagem is concerned . Catch-22. This honestly reads as "we can't stop for gas, we're already late." :-) I should have been more clear that I understand that this would require someone to step away from the firehose of work that not having such tools perpetuates. I certainly understand that it requires an effort of will to raise one's head high enough out of the lists/PRs/email swamp long enough, shake off some learned helplessness, and be inspired to tackle one of them. I struggle with that daily myself. There's a "Not Invented Here" comic strip that is quite applicable: http://notinventedhe.re/on/2010-3-8 [good Garrett summary of the resource problem snipped] > So, rather than do things this way by posting wishlist projects that > won't happen in the immediate future, why not make developers' lives > easier by spreading the load, increasing the domain knowledge in one > or more areas, and improving the community in the meantime? Affected > companies/the Foundation should have more than enough funds to devote > towards a handful of staff to make this a reality, even if the > position is part-time. Remember: low hanging fruit -> more likely to > succeed -> quicker/better RoI results. Even one item from my wish list would lower the branches so that more people could reach the fruit. :-) The objections you're raising to my wish list could have been used, in the past, to justify anything from not writing send-pr (which was somewhat low-hanging fruit) to not writing freebsd-update (decidedly less trivial). Not all of my wishlist items require Herculean effort to make progress on. They just require someone who can both code, and see the light at the end of the tunnel that such a project would reveal. It's the never-ending chronic pain and "whack-a-mole" game of troubleshooting that makes us frame these things as wishes. If we take as an assumption that they're within reach, they might be. It calls to mind the last lines of Say Anything (if I may indulge my John Cusack fanboyhood): Diane Court: Nobody thinks it will work, do they? Lloyd Dobler: No. You just described every great success story. Royce From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 07:02:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832051065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:02:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@dataix.net) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209BC8FC0A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:02:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so1284854ggn.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:02:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to; bh=+8QV7s5EjVzaNIcRzWEYoBcuUxlQdTP3tefGCVqWdhY=; b=P/ZIrhev7vDAffKCnZvgbF2Prd3X2DAeUtR41D4ap3KKCVDYS8fxcyxHaBLbzEhVRH I3n29jozW8daTJf0VEcN7CxBM1sNEN3RYJN2yPH+0Ez9H1FAkf0MauRJXzwEyfnJQjLH hsLmCyd9H3t+NwgsiEfbOMpHArhVxWkjvXm1E= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:x-gm-message-state; bh=+8QV7s5EjVzaNIcRzWEYoBcuUxlQdTP3tefGCVqWdhY=; b=bbBy3hyFJCJLal0DhhmIFQcFli3HYCg2UqSXYv879X9BTmAmVX8UjrIsWI3toxkxGi bMp1IGGsoUcUm9fcrdwOozZT8IbfXppjC9mPFM7R+gVnC4Pxh06fj5wx4Rp9KYs1IolY zad/uodGj+ot9H4kbrgdeL/no0JAoDk/uWmegk9cqtkF2y7Zb/iqSd/o9zfQrrbETc7b wnEyZt2keBDVIVYEr/rv5dlZmneEwqTcdKJAwPug0X+AMeE6UBb5vmtK4SPsl7uF9YtY yYrr0hpqMnFfNcGR8gTEZWyPkJHaGMYhgXYEk6gxs6AoEnc4bVSKRQw4JdxI4xkFiE7S cBqg== Received: by 10.236.78.2 with SMTP id f2mr792770yhe.118.1339657323350; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (75-128-120-86.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com. [75.128.120.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g22sm17744618yhh.20.2012.06.14.00.02.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5E720Mm031980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:02:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Received: (from jh@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5E720VK031979; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:02:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhellenthal@DataIX.net) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 03:02:00 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20120614070200.GA6426@DataIX.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnEUaiGoB7ddDFL+gJ0Y6CTDtLhaYln+OXpsDSDci6x0q2/NkF6cu9nsLtRA95bBsoLCotR Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Royce Williams Subject: Re: Solving the great resource problem, take 42 (Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:02:04 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:06:15PM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Royce Williams > wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > >>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >>>> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated > >>>> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, > >>>> committing it, etc. > >>> > >>> I'm going to agree with Garrett here. IMHO we've reached (or surpassed) > >>> the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spare > >>> time to. This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" branch. > >> > >> I totally concur. > > > > Ah, but you can get the same effect by freeing up those engineers to > > work on the hard stuff. > > > > This is my usual soapbox (see [1], [2]): Push more of the mundane > > work out to the edges, so that the developers can focus more on the > > core (like more releases/features/testing/projects). > > > > Here are some ideas. Only developers can implement them, but they > > would start paying for themselves immediately ... in developer time. > > > > - Frequent snapshots, with tools to automatically apply them and roll > > them back (freebsd-update + ZFS snapshots?). > > > > - Tools to do binary walks of snapshots to pinpoint when a bug > > appeared. (Think 'git bisect' + freebsd-update.) > > > > - A taggable FAQ that supports faceted search, and a quick way to add > > entries (or propose them for approval). > > > > - A way to search for known fixes to transient bugs and hardware issues [1]. > > > > - General debugging and testing tools for non-developers, including > > tools for filing smarter bug reports. > > > > - A way to automatically upload crash dumps for bulk analysis (like > > Windows does). > > > > - A dmesg analyzer that downloads a list during install, and looks for > > known issues (or workarounds) with your hardware for that version of > > FreeBSD (or recommend a different version!). > > > > Tools like these would also help more people achieve the "I tried it, > > and it Just Worked" moment. This can keep people's interest long > > enough to give FreeBSD a serious try. Some of them might enter the > > volunteer pool. > > > > I'm not a developer, but if some of the above could be tackled, they > > might free up enough Developer Equivalents (DEs, a term which I have > > just made up) to be more than worth the effort. > > No offense, but speaking from experience, these are referred to as > "wishlist projects" -- many of which get shelved until developers get > enough time to work on them. This makes more sense when there are more > resources so engineers can work in a less distracted manner as BSD is > not Linux as far as BSD's design stratagem is concerned . > > This is really starting to get philosophical and away from the > original intent behind the original post, but given past discussions > and the fact that these topics end up going around in circles/cycling > through periodically (I've seen it on ports, current/stable/hackers, > etc), here's my perspective after having read these discussions a few > times and given what I've seen with the project over the last 5-10 > years (granted, I've become a jaded realistic/pessimist in past years, > so YMMV): > > Problem Statement (or the "I want to have my cake and eat it too" Issue): > > - Users want stability, but want latest and greatest driver code and > features. These are [generally] mutually exclusive. > > Impedance: > > - There aren't enough volunteer resources to do what consumers of > FreeBSD want beyond what's being done, with exception of developers > and other volunteers going above and beyond in extraordinary > circumstances to get the job done, or doing something his/her day job > requires. The former case tends to be more of the exception than the > norm. The latter happens sporadically. > - There are plenty of companies out there wanting to "solve this > problem of release cycles", but no one group (or groups) is standing > up and actively ponying up dedicated resources on a regular basis to > make this a reality. > > What happens: > > Trivial tasks, like MFCing, testing, triaging, etc are being done by > "lead developers" in a particular domain, which steals cycles from > enhancement/bugfixing work in those areas [or other surrounding > areas]; instead of investing time writing regression tests so others > can do the work, no one other than the lead developers in a given area > can do the work if it requires domain knowledge and/or specific > hardware resources to complete the task. Eventually something happens, > the developer becomes less active in the community (gets a family, no > longer does FreeBSD work, gets a job, number of different things), and > depending on the bus factor the particular area being maintained may > remain unmaintained for some time. > > Alternatively, contact is done infrequently enough that interested > parties willing to contribute code get discouraged and "go off and do > their own thing" (be it support their own custom distro, switch to > another OS, etc). In the former case, there's duplication of effort, > some (or most) of which is discarded at a later date, depending on how > active the supporting group. In the latter case, the party won't > partake in FreeBSD, and instead the project/community misses out on an > outreach opportunity. > > Some bugs end up going into the PR queue, where (if lucky) the item is > resolved promptly; timeframes vary depending on the category, the > maintainer, and the difficulty of the bug, but sometimes it can take > days, months, or years. Otherwise it rots in the PR queue for some > time. > > So, rather than do things this way by posting wishlist projects that > won't happen in the immediate future, why not make developers' lives > easier by spreading the load, increasing the domain knowledge in one > or more areas, and improving the community in the meantime? Affected > companies/the Foundation should have more than enough funds to devote > towards a handful of staff to make this a reality, even if the > position is part-time. Remember: low hanging fruit -> more likely to > succeed -> quicker/better RoI results. > Garrett, This should be posted up somewhere permanent and linked to by a FAQ or a few other articles. This is the longest "interesting" article I have read in a while I could not stop reading... [Not being sarcastic] Anyway... It is too bad that in times like these that three main communities of BSD users and programmers alike could not come to a common sense to forge an aliance to build a better stronger (C)ommonBSD. There is a lot more to be had by converging resources and reaching a middle ground that fits the ideals of all three projects that would benefit more than just users but "large" vendors and developers as well. The resources are out there... someone just has to take the first step. -- - (2^(N-1)) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 07:09:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EC81065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:09:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678AD8FC12 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:09:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1433401bkv.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:09:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=tMFTIv22a5DeEshxXvQKWo0qtOpMf3C3uDtBBXfGVdc=; b=Jl/zthU4p+LnSp0XFUQe6WIIm2rfmhWov1EdBsbOFgBwKyBXnnhJDlqOnxsJ03VnRN LePv+vzMuTu5Tb5LWIKFU8+r7nU9pOV8QYheI8nq1wCdoUgDSWzoN4G0ITe9vL/tPdIq tS7B2Ef52GfH8/mcLWHIn/9pTwjpY5aG/MYRfIJpgEbMw5fkM/AobO8Zslnje19H3r3L VSTwwm/cq+DwIo6fb5iejvJMZJpw+QOGOapIzCyiDEkt1rZSzgJXbGf/mhf0y0UZqKNR 8qrS5ES8p0qm9RlGLwXraf+5T4v/Ck/9BLujzZQmexbTExZPcrmAXVyoSoOcQhODjQGe KSug== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.196 with SMTP id h4mr298450bkw.131.1339657771225; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:09:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:09:30 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:09:33 -0000 On Jun 14, 2012 5:52 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >> >> Friends, >> >> I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 listed - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? > > > does it matter. cvsup RELENG_8 and you see updates are done constantly. > just sometime somebody decide to change number :) Except STABLE is no good for production, and the problem is EoL- updates and support stop. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 08:29:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BB91065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:29:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FEE58FC17 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:29:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so523978eab.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:29:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=wlQTu/e92YcZ8Vo9myLMtSIZnL6Q48umYsKZhRoD8Nw=; b=Ilc7djxSgVgJX8o564/jjOT1GeE5YoqH0db0V4dr60TcsqqmSFTR2vU+z1S4n0/4WB sNSj4PL2Zw+rYq1SEzVFUYX2XxsR5JNEg26KjSZbimE/9rRWnXtLhU01igCLDkDZBtjR dcKKlqligz3x+jtN88r2ilPX1T1yBdGe6RHC7PtH9wB0biT1pgb0ADlgG2iT2HBpcTEH Z4rbB5WSrZDiQBhtGjIICOJxVp1zymMmpNL+T+CTpX9Y/rq6VSp/p+DiJGs2MMtQDc3q XFWPKY09kJKnlkdPP0M5V88ZRXF5rB+uKr09gzX8VGsV9SGl/Y7Mog80kX8A9glZRTs5 a5uQ== Received: by 10.14.189.11 with SMTP id b11mr215212een.165.1339662565444; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c42sm16476880eeb.2.2012.06.14.01.29.23 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:29:22 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmdAvKltriFkAZ5U3O0TizzRtjNDUjwkiVpkaNBmrireT/Xtsq2Aeds2qM/gFyk5UQu+I/t Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:29:27 -0000 On 6/14/12 9:09 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > On Jun 14, 2012 5:52 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" > wrote: >>> >>> Friends, >>> >>> I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 listed > - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? >> >> >> does it matter. cvsup RELENG_8 and you see updates are done constantly. >> just sometime somebody decide to change number :) > > Except STABLE is no good for production, and the problem is EoL- updates > and support stop. > > Chris Whoever said STABLE is no good for production ? I used to make us stick to 8.2-RELEASE here at work, but some bugfixes are just too important to skip (we're running firewalls and had a problem with a CARP bug). I've moved us to 8.3-STABLE recently and am quite happy with it, so far. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 06:49:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD55A106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:49:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD3E8FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:49:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 57C645620B; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:49:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:49:00 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120614064900.GC13562@lonesome.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:12:14 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:49:06 -0000 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 06:50:34AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > does it matter. cvsup RELENG_8 and you see updates are done constantly. > just sometime somebody decide to change number :) The difference is the freeze-and-test work that goes between "random date" and "release time". This requires a nontrivial time committment from both developers and users. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 11:48:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1291106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:48:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D108FC14 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so1687349bkv.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=21W0HttHFNbYTTUfU05O/cQRHSkaHe7WJQxpVzVx+LE=; b=icXVkhLGWGWRYHrBzf/JY4/g0DLDPIoZ4DKmySel+uf/MDLnH8c2e7k4N7tzADbcSF KLA1X05awryX4vXkSdkQ47QCJU/Kfv/Ryr1XayXWFMFVmRxuzuLfr7fnfUFsSSLDU9/C Otqvee1iOOY5OW+QgIF4HhungpOBrYE0S3diyv5c5FWorOWwGNiX9QCcHN7PXH+LBcNu cvLATHe2KuI/T+vTrGs4ZDuUYgYgR1a99F/OFCRlMFVAKrvg16XQ79ZRTf08TNzvItwq jF/II4f51JoNFx2pzHAVC7++v/ClpZyTFlqQzC/XoUi8ImbJXRY6rBTyUiL4VzC75omi DzDg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.117.3 with SMTP id fk3mr838276bkc.136.1339674499403; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:48:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:48:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Damien Fleuriot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:48:21 -0000 On Jun 14, 2012 9:30 AM, "Damien Fleuriot" wrote: > > On 6/14/12 9:09 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > > On Jun 14, 2012 5:52 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> > > wrote: > >>> > >>> Friends, > >>> > >>> I am looking at the upcoming release schedule, and I only see 9.1 listed > > - can anyone confirm or deny 8.4 ? > >> > >> > >> does it matter. cvsup RELENG_8 and you see updates are done constantly. > >> just sometime somebody decide to change number :) > > > > Except STABLE is no good for production, and the problem is EoL- updates > > and support stop. > > > > Chris > > Whoever said STABLE is no good for production ? > > I used to make us stick to 8.2-RELEASE here at work, but some bugfixes > are just too important to skip (we're running firewalls and had a > problem with a CARP bug). > > > I've moved us to 8.3-STABLE recently and am quite happy with it, so far. Too strong wording perhaps; but you can't claim that an EOL stable branch will have the level of support afforded to live branches. That was supposed to be my point, as Mark has also explained. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 11:58:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09591065670 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:58:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjoe@samodelkin.net) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922FA8FC15 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:58:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so1474069ggn.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:58:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=KSdJJrepqNG+JO6SqVt+oePUETHrs8SqzriK5vqYxuA=; b=nUoyctgdPug6e55RfST0l08Zs0oOxUSTPQK0DtaFt6pADt9ufHjTUMT9/RnmsIBB/b uGUrAslX1y1C4/RSS1slXmjmtUTzBUuL1Jr02oq00dksnNsnH0dALFsK0AQhlzCn8E6P eT9qUK97JAk+MvIaFenjnRY75PqVacajfl8B8CZwMBgo+pI8/f7Rtej8p5DQV4fr4eBu /6RFxtPH78uQ/YG7PUkXkSvZEM5SK8mqg0N0whO6DvDkHwnJiBekA9jY2ErahGNAy7CU GTUNTudkIkLQbw0nTAQGrVX/PCApWKKw8unMGJ57MUBYr6dYEz2ccWGWbg0Do0hghLWD pPOg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.1.165 with SMTP id 5mr1478824oen.36.1339675106711; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: fjoe@samodelkin.net Received: by 10.182.231.38 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:58:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [93.92.220.179] In-Reply-To: References: <20120301.155632.137.2@DOMY-PC> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:58:26 +0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XahO7IGAJFPd-MZNDqWd9fOzzWk Message-ID: From: Max Khon To: Eygene Ryabinkin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlcanmeD+8bGAB7E+Rpw7GaipIgYBIzISmOXX4zcIKw5Pj67G2lcADkx0Uexef30VRXrCKh Cc: Garrett Cooper , rank1seeker@gmail.com, hackers@freebsd.org, Chris Rees Subject: Re: src builds and STDERR X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:58:28 -0000 Hello! On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Eygene Ryabinkin wrote: > Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 09:38:06AM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Chris Rees wrote: >> > On 1 Mar 2012 16:31, "Garrett Cooper" wrote: >> >> See: >> >> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2011-December/0298= 52.html >> >> . Why this patch is still not in FreeBSD proper, I do not know. > [...] >> bin/165589 -- thanks! > > The patch from mailing list was already committed to HEAD more than > 2 weeks ago, > =C2=A0http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=3Drevision&revision=3D231544 > Don't see the MFC timeline, though. =C2=A0Max, any plans for MFC? JFYI: I MFC'ed Garret's patch to RELENG_9 several days ago. Max From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 13:13:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EB9106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:13:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (feld.me [66.170.3.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896918FC16 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:13:19 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=racL2dAO+AWiqt/EwuDnWzPD3pW2m5XUFfQwztudsbE=; b=IS6UhwjqAAEIa/kK3xGtO4Roa8GRwmqVEEcVoI4R8rn0RDLJavF/P75ON+3R6L/XBI9+KOmxv5llPGQSquxs6gTQqVMlso9jNsB+GM4jIlKgi0kde7SpsAFSYUSWT33w; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sf9rR-0002vN-F0; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:13:18 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1339679591-26372-26371/5/73; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:13:11 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> <201206131327.19688.jhb@freebsd.org> <176F689D-1888-4B71-B03E-70108F464E29@my.gd> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:13:11 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <176F689D-1888-4B71-B03E-70108F464E29@my.gd> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:13:19 -0000 On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:49:18 -0500, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > > I for one, as a fbsd admin on corporate servers ( read not commiter), > would dearly like less releases but a more aggressive MFC approach. Less releases such as less frequent MAJOR releases (7.0, 8.0, 9.0...) or less MINOR releases as well? (8.4, 8.5, 9.1...) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 14:34:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E4B1065674 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:34:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from adsum.doit.wisc.edu (adsum.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20298FC14 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:34:24 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0M5M00J0035CM800@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:34:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net ([unknown] [76.210.74.20]) by smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0M5M002OG35BBW30@smtpauth1.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:34:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:34:22 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <4FD8DD76.4080001@gentoo.org> To: Richard Yao Message-id: <4FD9F66E.5010709@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.210.74.20 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-15, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.6.14.142415, SenderIP=76.210.74.20 References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> <4FD8DD76.4080001@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120521 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:34:25 -0000 Thanks for the information -- I got scared by "SysV init". This actually does look very nice. -Nathan On 06/13/12 13:35, Richard Yao wrote: > The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. > It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it > to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. > > I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can > install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the > Gentoo wiki: > > http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail > > If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would > appreciate feedback regarding them. > > On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: >> On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: >>> On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk wrote: >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long >>>>> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >>>>> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about >>>>> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot >>>>> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty >>>>> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic >>>>> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process >>>>> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone have any suggestions? >>>>> >>>>> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >>>> The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as >>>> is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There >>>> are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup >>>> or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the >>>> most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). >>>> Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized >>>> rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their >>>> resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's >>>> possible with enough resources. >>>> HTH, >>>> -Garrett >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause >>> licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. >>> Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. >>> >>> If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be >>> worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One >> of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, >> besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure >> instead of the nightmare that is System V init. >> -Nathan >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 14:53:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F404106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:53:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58178FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:53:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5EErD7P078599 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:53:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5EErD8S078596 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:53:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:53:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:53:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: groups and directories X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:53:21 -0000 assume we have timesharing system and multiple users. everyone have his/her home directory and here - the access right and ownership is simple. assume we need two shared directories - a and b directory a must be for user1,user2 and user3, directory b for user3,user4 and user5. things are simple - i create groups a and b, and add user1,2,3 to group a, and user3,4,5 to group b. when any of them create file in those directories, group is automatically added. setting umask to 007 allows anyone else from group to read and modify those files. but when user1 create file first at home directory and then move it to directory a, it still is in group user1. is it possible to make automatic chgrp anyway? or just completely different solution. I don't mean samba/ftp/nfs but directly accessing files by users working on the same machine. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 15:09:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C8E91065673; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C33C8FC0A; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:09:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6FB6FB981; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:09:43 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Adrian Chadd Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:20:02 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20120614042602.GA6638@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201206140820.02798.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Garrett Cooper , Mark Linimon , Matt Olander , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:09:44 -0000 On Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:30:19 am Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated > >> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing it, > >> committing it, etc. > > > > I'm going to agree with Garrett here. IMHO we've reached (or surpassed) > > the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spare > > time to. This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" branch. > > I totally concur. This is why I think we need fewer branches so that there is less merging to do. Even in the bad old 4.x days developers would merge things (especially driver updates) from HEAD back to 4.x. If we move X.0 releases farther apart then developers will still MFC things, the issue is that they don't want to MFC to 2 stable branches. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 15:54:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3459D106566C; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:54:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC388FC0A; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5EFsm4P006923; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:54:48 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5EFsm8m045760; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:54:48 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5EFslvT045759; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:54:47 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:54:47 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20120614155447.GC2337@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <20120614042602.GA6638@lonesome.com> <201206140820.02798.jhb@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CFO0SFgG+t1lcV5s" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201206140820.02798.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: Garrett Cooper , Mark Linimon , Adrian Chadd , Matt Olander , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:54:52 -0000 --CFO0SFgG+t1lcV5s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 08:20:02AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > On Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:30:19 am Adrian Chadd wrote: > > On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > > >> The only way that this would really work is if there were dedicated > > >> sustaining engineers working on actively backporting code, testing i= t, > > >> committing it, etc. > > > > > > I'm going to agree with Garrett here. IMHO we've reached (or surpass= ed) > > > the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to commit their spa= re > > > time to. This is doubly true when we have more than one "stable" bra= nch. > >=20 > > I totally concur. >=20 > This is why I think we need fewer branches so that there is less merging = to=20 > do. Even in the bad old 4.x days developers would merge things (especial= ly > driver updates) from HEAD back to 4.x. If we move X.0 releases farther > apart then developers will still MFC things, the issue is that they don't > want to MFC to 2 stable branches. I do not find it cumbersome to merge to two branches. What I find quite demotivating is the conflicts and drifted KPI/API. So my usual reaction to the attempt to merge to stable/8 which fails due to conflicts is just remove the MFC reminder. I do sometimes reconsider the choice if explicitely asked by somebody, but I really prefer to not do risky commits to old and presumably stable branches. I do not have much incentive to merge to 8 anyway, except a warm feeling of providing some relief to a peer. So having long-living stable/8 and not having stable/9 means not doing some merges at all, instead of doing just one merge. YMMV. --CFO0SFgG+t1lcV5s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/aCUcACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4jzWACeLpaJcS+tVzkKTZKoLS2CmguT gWIAoOCeRDwOsXtaDppG3/rbt/psU886 =hqj+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CFO0SFgG+t1lcV5s-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 14:41:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B41106566B for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:41:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E2E8FC08 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:41:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 7BA125620B; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:41:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:41:28 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Damien Fleuriot Message-ID: <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:08:46 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:41:29 -0000 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:29:22AM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > Whoever said STABLE is no good for production ? > > I used to make us stick to 8.2-RELEASE here at work, but some bugfixes > are just too important to skip (we're running firewalls and had a > problem with a CARP bug). In theory we try our best to keep -STABLE, well, stable in behavior and not just the API, but in practice any given snapshot of -stable may or may not have uncaught regressions in it. I reiterate, the major difference between -stable and -release is a more thorough QA process for the latter :-) mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 17:40:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF75E106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:40:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cattelan@thebarn.com) Received: from x.digitalelves.com (x.digitalelves.com [209.98.77.55]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748578FC08 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:40:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from macpro00.x.thebarn.com (c-66-41-26-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net [66.41.26.220]) (authenticated bits=0) by x.digitalelves.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5EHe2Ha099633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:40:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cattelan@thebarn.com) Message-ID: <4FDA21ED.2000703@thebarn.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:39:57 -0500 From: Russell Cattelan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk References: <20336.1339571779@critter.freebsd.dk> <4FD91913.20607@thebarn.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig7487E0E0B718E2E236DA564B" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:40:06 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig7487E0E0B718E2E236DA564B Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060302010302000506080701" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060302010302000506080701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6/13/12 6:29 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Russell Cattelan > wrote: >=20 > On 6/13/12 2:16 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message > >, > Wojci > > ech Puchar writes: > > > > One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers > > serially & synchronously. > Yes definitely. >=20 > I have been looking into how to potentially defer or parallelize > device_attach'es. Defer is turning out to be hard enough since each= > system is has different requirements to reach a state where it can > run /sbin/init. I've started with the John Baldwin's multipass work= > and have a system stops probing/attaching devices and allows the bo= ot > to continue on. >=20 > The remaining passes I'm triggering from userspace once the system > is up. >=20 > This is all very crude at this point and has been an some work just= > to understand how the kernel startup code all links together. >=20 > Note systemd looks interesting from from a demand based startup sch= eme > much like apples launchd. (note systemd uses linux process groups s= o > porting it would take some effort) >=20 > Ideally it would be nice to get to the point where many devices are= only > attached once there is a demand for it. Say network interfaces for > example: attach it once the init scripts need to config it and then= > hopefully in an async fashion. Unfortunately that will require lock= ing > a bit more fine grain than the current "Giant" lock. >=20 > -Russell > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > To reduce the boot time , my opinion is as follows : >=20 > During install or by using a program , generate a "Hardware Profile Fil= e" . >=20 > By editing it , mark some devices "No check" ( for example , a network > card or=20 > PS/2 mouse or key board , is not connected , RS-232 , Firewire ,=20 > unused SATA ports , unused IDE ports , etc. , > then it is not necessary to check them . ) >=20 > During boot , first read that "Hardware Profile File" . > Only check ports marked as "Check" . Linux does this by keeping a list of driver id's and corresponding driver modules. The installers can then generate of list of modules to load based on a scan done at install time. FreeBSD is much more into build everything into the kernel vs having a smaller kernel + modules. There really isn't anything limiting a smaller kernel right now. I have a config with just about everything stripped out to do multipass ordering testing and not have a ton of extra probes going on. >=20 > After completion of boot , the other ports may checked to update=20 > "Hardware Profile File" if it is requested in "Hardware Profile File" .= >=20 > Later on , assume a new device is attached . >=20 > Run the "Hardware Profile" program to regenerate the "Hardware Profile > File" , > or by using dmesg , manually add this device into "Hardware Profile Fil= e" . >=20 >=20 > For removable devices , if some USB , etc. ports are not used , they al= l > may be=20 > marked as "No Check" , for example internal USB ports , unused back > panel ports . Making usb async would be a big help in terms of boot time it is one of the slowest subsystems to attach. cam already has a thread for drive scanning but unfortunately the boot still waits for it to scan everything before proceeding. One thing I would like to do is release the boot process once the root drive is found and let the rest of drive discovery happen in the backgrou= nd. The problem that then arises is what is the next barrier point? say when mount -a happening? Right now the rc scripts assume everything is probed and attached. What if the rc scripts could say "load all drives", notify me when done, get notification, run mount -a. I was thinking anything new would have to take existing scripts and run them normally. But provide a new framework to allow for things to be migrated over. >=20 >=20 > I do not know such a scheme is useful or not , or usable or not . >=20 > If I were a boot manager program writer , I would try it . >=20 > To my knowledge which I may be wrong , at present there is no such a > facility . yes something could / should be done. So lets keep the discussion going. -Russell >=20 >=20 > Thank you very much . >=20 >=20 > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --------------060302010302000506080701-- --------------enig7487E0E0B718E2E236DA564B Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/aIfIACgkQNRmM+OaGhBizhQCeLtMnHoMmgbr9WhpcYPJomwoe KH4An1pBVkMonpXFNPxb05sya/bx2ngt =qJn0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig7487E0E0B718E2E236DA564B-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 18:38:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C8B106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:38:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2984E8FC0A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:38:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 24898 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 2012 18:38:52 -0000 Received: from 67.206.184.254 by rms-us003.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:38:49 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120614183850.22700@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: 7Uqob7pp3zOlNR3dAHAhxcp+IGRvb4Br Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:38:53 -0000 Brandon writes: > Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, > literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell 0.5-2 seconds from power-on to a shell prompt?  How do you get through the firmware that fast, much less firmware plus an OS? Which reminds me, back when I was triple-booting Free, Net, and penguinix, I noticed that when rebooting, penguinix didn't go through all the firmware stuff like the BSDs do.  That is one way to save a lot of time, at least for reboots. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 18:59:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1601065672 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:59:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D938FC1C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:59:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5EIxJHL080435; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:59:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5EIxJtT080432; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:59:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:59:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:59:19 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:59:22 -0000 > > does it matter. cvsup RELENG_8 and you see updates are done constantly. > > just sometime somebody decide to change number :) > > Except STABLE is no good for production, and the problem is EoL- updates and support stop. ???? using RELENG_8 everywhere except my private laptop with 9. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 19:00:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1027E1065675 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:00:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A17F8FC14 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:00:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5EJ0GjS080460; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:00:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5EJ0GXx080457; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:00:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:00:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Damien Fleuriot In-Reply-To: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> Message-ID: References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:00:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:00:18 -0000 > I used to make us stick to 8.2-RELEASE here at work, but some bugfixes > are just too important to skip (we're running firewalls and had a > problem with a CARP bug). > > > I've moved us to 8.3-STABLE recently and am quite happy with it, so far. as most people do who needs FreeBSD to perform crucial work. FreeBSD 9 is an improvement but still i would not classify it as stable. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 19:01:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877EE106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:01:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A348FC1B for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:01:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5EJ16gu080466; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:01:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5EJ1659080463; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:01:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:01:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Russell Cattelan In-Reply-To: <4FDA21ED.2000703@thebarn.com> Message-ID: References: <20336.1339571779@critter.freebsd.dk> <4FD91913.20607@thebarn.com> <4FDA21ED.2000703@thebarn.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:01:06 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:01:07 -0000 > Linux does this by keeping a list of driver id's and corresponding > driver modules. The installers can then generate of list of modules > to load based on a scan done at install time. what a problem to compile custom kernel? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 18:10:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0457F106564A; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:10:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0AA8FC08; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:10:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E25451B4001; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:10:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDA28E2.5060100@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:09:38 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Whitehorn References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <71dc991c8d1b4d2c91ff942fc5f8f340@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FD7CA24.6080405@gentoo.org> <4FD8DD76.4080001@gentoo.org> <4FD9F66E.5010709@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4FD9F66E.5010709@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:12:43 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:10:59 -0000 That is a fairly common response. I would appreciate suggestions on how I can convey that OpenRC is a good init system. Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. On 06/14/12 10:34, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > Thanks for the information -- I got scared by "SysV init". This actually > does look very nice. > -Nathan > > On 06/13/12 13:35, Richard Yao wrote: >> The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. >> It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it >> to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. >> >> I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can >> install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the >> Gentoo wiki: >> >> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail >> >> >> If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would >> appreciate feedback regarding them. >> >> On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: >>> On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: >>>> On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon >>>>> Falk wrote: >>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it >>>>>> take so long >>>>>> to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, >>>>>> literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD >>>>>> takes about >>>>>> 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in >>>>>> the boot >>>>>> process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I >>>>>> do pretty >>>>>> much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a >>>>>> generic >>>>>> kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD >>>>>> boot process >>>>>> that could be parallelized or eliminated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone have any suggestions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. >>>>> The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as >>>>> is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There >>>>> are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup >>>>> or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the >>>>> most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). >>>>> Given past experience, a big part of getting past the >>>>> parallelized >>>>> rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their >>>>> resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's >>>>> possible with enough resources. >>>>> HTH, >>>>> -Garrett >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>> Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD >>>> 2-clause >>>> licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. >>>> Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. >>>> >>>> If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be >>>> worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One >>> of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, >>> besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure >>> instead of the nightmare that is System V init. >>> -Nathan >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>> "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 18:55:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E15106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:55:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4A88FC0A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:55:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B27511B4018; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:55:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:54:28 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:13:01 +0000 Cc: gentoo-bsd@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Import crt{begin,end}.S from NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:55:47 -0000 NetBSD has replacements for GCC's crt{begin,end}.S: http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/lib/csu/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN This would complement compiler-rt and libstdc++. We intend to import it in downstream Gentoo FreeBSD. Could this be imported into FreeBSD-CURRENT? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 19:54:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0475A1065676 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:54:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609D58FC1C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:54:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5796CDBD.dip.t-dialin.net [87.150.205.189]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 427FA844909; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:54:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown (IO.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.12]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70BC81046; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:54:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1339703669; bh=We8BygxsEOrS1USEU+vNsVcCGYsfFmKOhEtOxSwaaJ0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=QjNL2IrN/LBg1W3v9s7NODMd+WEk2I1wEZ5MICDGYXFTIh9J/cO2hzZYlFXhkb2AM xozHJ9MkD1liyZhyec17pz7kKfZ2aEL8VPCTD4hW0RXquTuHG5Nw8khaSOXboaJIUG rXw+nMDHgp40u7DBKC9VVMHVVakOyMy8krFRfCVnfbsCIL2Ri0QWYItRJkUqmL2G/6 GM+SupaGc6+whBzCqUaWZx2rybd6Fj25j3S8+ehA/21ha4gQvp/xPM+bgO8d+J73qs OC4K0HKiPK79w5AgT8Mvsv+QFlsb1yZQU6UtcH0xEukGJl0oWFBiflu5Ab4woN05CL Wf0BbTMR3cVhw== Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:54:26 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20120614215426.00007095@unknown> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10cvs42 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 427FA844909.A0775 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-0.944, required 6, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, AWL 0.17, DKIM_SIGNED 0.10, DKIM_VALID -0.10, DKIM_VALID_AU -0.10, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD -0.01) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1340308476.16909@pgOFiuTVX+vigyiVEVY35Q X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:13:21 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Royce Williams Subject: Re: Solving the great resource problem, take 42 (Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:54:57 -0000 On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:06:15 -0700 Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Royce Williams > wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Adrian Chadd > > wrote: > >> On 13 June 2012 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > >>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 08:50:24AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >>>> The only way that this would really work is if there were > >>>> dedicated sustaining engineers working on actively backporting > >>>> code, testing it, committing it, etc. > >>> > >>> I'm going to agree with Garrett here. =A0IMHO we've reached (or > >>> surpassed) the limit of what is reasonable to ask volunteers to > >>> commit their spare time to. =A0This is doubly true when we have > >>> more than one "stable" branch. > >> > >> I totally concur. > > > > Ah, but you can get the same effect by freeing up those engineers to > > work on the hard stuff. > > > > This is my usual soapbox (see [1], [2]): =A0Push more of the mundane > > work out to the edges, so that the developers can focus more on the > > core (like more releases/features/testing/projects). > > > > Here are some ideas. =A0Only developers can implement them, but they > > would start paying for themselves immediately ... in developer time. > > > > - Frequent snapshots, with tools to automatically apply them and > > roll them back (freebsd-update + ZFS snapshots?). > > > > - Tools to do binary walks of snapshots to pinpoint when a bug > > appeared. =A0(Think 'git bisect' + freebsd-update.) > > > > - A taggable FAQ that supports faceted search, and a quick way to > > add entries (or propose them for approval). > > > > - A way to search for known fixes to transient bugs and hardware > > issues [1]. > > > > - General debugging and testing tools for non-developers, including > > tools for filing smarter bug reports. > > > > - A way to automatically upload crash dumps for bulk analysis (like > > Windows does). There's a GSoC project underway for this. > > - A dmesg analyzer that downloads a list during install, and looks > > for known issues (or workarounds) with your hardware for that > > version of FreeBSD (or recommend a different version!). > > > > Tools like these would also help more people achieve the "I tried > > it, and it Just Worked" moment. =A0This can keep people's interest > > long enough to give FreeBSD a serious try. =A0Some of them might > > enter the volunteer pool. > > > > I'm not a developer, but if some of the above could be tackled, they > > might free up enough Developer Equivalents (DEs, a term which I have > > just made up) to be more than worth the effort. >=20 > No offense, but speaking from experience, these are referred to as > "wishlist projects" -- many of which get shelved until developers get > enough time to work on them. This makes more sense when there are more > resources so engineers can work in a less distracted manner as BSD is > not Linux as far as BSD's design stratagem is concerned . We have the ideas list for this (http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage). While it does not attract that much people during the year, it attracts a lot of students which want to participate in the GSoC. Bye, Alexander. --=20 http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 19:58:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36208106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:58:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71DA8FC0A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:58:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5796CDBD.dip.t-dialin.net [87.150.205.189]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6918E844908; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:58:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown (IO.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.12]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A72A4104A; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:58:20 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1339703900; bh=4+/wQ2tBKLUyF2xOQj2SMHe2Y1o7omi6lSl0AiPKnZE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=c7mKOjWR/+xhJ+1ueZjuDic3Bis/EIa97TbkERJ0hsAMH1qWHBlpWI7y1v9FswFB3 DbjGH5HczZj0F4c3mLtPiydh63yJ26genB1yQTW9R4Ufp1elODxGwqneQ/ORIe9rV0 iCiMnIEEBE1HAg8OtrbUR18hHGAnWeLOkgd6sULosk3qewJIeU2xBQYIkKItmgQEWI eI+f3MN+xs2ePm7q/Ajn6j/oa/ka3E+ZSmkeMGEO6ASkdaKwNZV4PMsZ7JheWAkraj p0OOWpfDvRVgzB/QpSAzBVfxxX25f7DERNdOUjeFy/SQqfciUjyQ2rWrqSdtZg9aZa RDHf4B3jt2MhQ== Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:58:17 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Royce Williams Message-ID: <20120614215817.0000205b@unknown> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10cvs42 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 6918E844908.AF9E9 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-0.945, required 6, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, AWL 0.17, DKIM_SIGNED 0.10, DKIM_VALID -0.10, DKIM_VALID_AU -0.10, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD -0.01) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1340308706.77459@7K2JWLcyZprzY3ytBBrHHg X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:13:36 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Solving the great resource problem, take 42 (Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:58:39 -0000 On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:32:08 -0800 Royce Williams wrote: > Even one item from my wish list would lower the branches so that more > people could reach the fruit. :-) Well... maybe this year for the crashdump auto-submit part. For the rest I suggest to provide some text suitable for the ideas list (see my other reply). Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 20:23:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A762E106568F for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:23:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D97C8FC0C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:23:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 6067 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jun 2012 20:23:13 -0000 Received: from 67.206.186.212 by rms-us013.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:23:11 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120614202312.22720@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: Zi2ob4Rp3zOlNR3dAHAhjHd+IGRvb8CN Subject: Re: Solving the great resource problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:23:14 -0000 Spending resources to create more releases is pointless when the PRs aren't getting fixed.  "Oh, Look!  Release 9.2.2.2.2.2 is out!  The system still crashes every 5 seconds, but a typo on the true(1) man page is fixed." We need a more global discussion about all the things that resources are spent on, and which are the most useful. Replacing perfectly good components simply because they are GPL. The purpose of BSD is supposed to be creating a great OS, not providing software hoarders with a supply of free code to abuse. Sending people to conferences. Nice, but clearly a luxury. Meanwhile the hardware support is a disaster. PRs sit for years and years and years.  The documentation has plenty of room for improvement. It seems there are never enough resources to fix problems, but somehow there are always resources to do yet another fork. FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonflyBSD, and now Bitrig. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 20:27:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9ED106566C for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:27:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (feld.me [66.170.3.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435268FC14 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:27:58 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=eMQ6xPk5Z4gmaS+44BDkWaORFj6UC5rJH1d4EXusOuo=; b=WEwtlq7NJj6mG7tEmUtcMPBgpVw7y6YXim0UQ+sM41y0UtKn2/AiuHogDOQAYEIIxHIZjACQF4XawlfW26Ru10AdbQSOPPjfuXx5Ah8UeYzvWmOQFhWAHH/2rWvyNyIy; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SfGe4-000GlK-Dt; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:27:57 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1339705670-26372-26371/5/75; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:27:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120614202312.22720@gmx.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:27:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20120614202312.22720@gmx.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Dieter BSD Subject: Re: Solving the great resource problem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:27:58 -0000 On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:23:11 -0500, Dieter BSD wrote: > > Replacing perfectly good components simply because they > are GPL. The purpose of BSD is supposed to be creating a > great OS, not providing software hoarders with a supply > of free code to abuse. You realize that companies like Juniper have a huge investment in FreeBSD and the less GPL code they have to deal with the better. FYI they give back to us with things like code drops and paid developers. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 21:12:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB36106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:12:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nonesuch@longcount.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7828FC08 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:12:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so2958356lbo.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:12:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=rQ4YappFH5BmLXJMIexYlfo66mRmvyDw2ObzV1F51b8=; b=mbnphzt1+YjOUUPvTTu9mf5vHjYSDgSiaysndhLAYtMdUJkBfFrBZMv8ZW/f6uXDUn cSy5R1z1xDMP35P6f8CisWXaWLuajlwBP2cIsWJdRyQWmTITQPsDSQi1XvU5X6rs3Tb8 DazxF3hEbPY4ynkHjfHJKBl7B5vkVTqP8AeY/GHk3C8eQMKwCha/JMWusSX5+3fPbZcg Z+A/QOIuJtkouIDrXDMcfa7BNk2Mk4lB/0smgUp0PWKa+ttONvy/ZDLjeiz/eYaN1DCT AgK81WbsJtfAme7gWsIwUtRzdxH239DvBoqTa3MNb9q2UOm7Rrym23hFhjgclw4rjRmU T+Qw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.29.131 with SMTP id k3mr1600335lbh.53.1339708366720; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.27.137 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:12:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [216.223.13.198] In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:12:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mark Saad To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnKtBw9ZSlF3F4xwHNfXt9J990fZTegO0mDOesYU8Vk3A5jrKIJplR7waBp1c5E1Hy0dz2g Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:12:48 -0000 All I have an partial solution to this issue I was thinking about this on my morning train ride, so its a bit bumpy. Here are my solutions they are not complete but I think its a good start. 1. When official errata and security updates hit the tree . Providing updated install media could be step one . Maybe rebuild install media periodical say every 3 months, if it warrants it. 2. Change FreeBSD-update to allow you to select what updates you want, and make it work for stable. Simply put think "freebsd-update fetch stable kernel" or " freebsd-update fetch release base" 3. Change FreeBSD-update to tweak a library so the -pN level is not hardcoded into the kernel at compile time. Currently FreeBSD's patch or "p level -pN " is a newvers.sh function . 4. Publish a longer time line for future releases and make it easier to find. While ken smith's email about the 9.1-RELEASE time line was a good start , for 9.1,I feel that a short general time line on http://www.freebsd.org/releases/ would do a world of good for people want to know whats up next and when can I expect it. It does not need to be exact just a rough estimate. The sum total of all of this , in my eyes, is when updated drivers ( I know its a still a wish and not reality ) , bug fixes , security updates are released , new installs done around that time will start out with all of the good bits. Secondly when new updates are released users can apply base updates and kernel updates to both release and stable as needed. Lastly updates released via this new method would be easily checked via uname -a or maybe " freebsd-update show version" Fire away. --- Mark Saad | mark.saad@longcount.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 22:57:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C391E106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:57:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8538FC16 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:57:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werg1 with SMTP id g1so2115936wer.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=V4rLOKszBNm+P1VUfrL9vuR+rXaN6lZfSL6CSSmnhu8=; b=dzHASKOqHhzZQtzFwVUTAU2QccI5sE6HhfqwXP6lNOF3RZ4wYE/ezXasFT1w1IoXwj Fyocu13XeCAUChEo1Xz0xETURFYRoYz8BInJqsrXBwS/YasWqIgOjsBCWqO2RHzk7LOP TEUYburYfPCXtNIqu21C2QQ7Mi4lP/1IcgKwN/K+Bng21ED8mAs1pg0RB6ANO8hbse/c n2OgTeO0ukk794gm0fxi7rDicXssfSoBIY5SWC2lodC3N5OvMykS+FzPFlVG9iQ8cd+3 fxObB3Xt5xjTDJTTusSa1HRPQZeiaCx6bKwqmzm+743nTl3pzCjaPD1RPe3GmvGYTDln rRDA== Received: by 10.180.99.70 with SMTP id eo6mr7804131wib.17.1339714623257; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (did75-17-88-165-130-96.fbx.proxad.net. [88.165.130.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d10sm24946707wiy.3.2012.06.14.15.57.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:57:02 -0700 (PDT) References: <201206130853.32687.jhb@freebsd.org> <201206131327.19688.jhb@freebsd.org> <176F689D-1888-4B71-B03E-70108F464E29@my.gd> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <94739145-E4DC-477D-862B-A4E9C396D383@my.gd> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) From: Damien Fleuriot Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 00:56:58 +0200 To: Mark Felder X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmWUQZn691EIxLKVDWvBxSvrJbAqsl+KSx3hU8AuRz7LGvJ7IBQ98z7kR9CqAVfEqi3B0ZZ Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:57:04 -0000 On 14 Jun 2012, at 15:13, Mark Felder wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:49:18 -0500, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I for one, as a fbsd admin on corporate servers ( read not commiter), wou= ld dearly like less releases but a more aggressive MFC approach. >=20 > Less releases such as less frequent MAJOR releases (7.0, 8.0, 9.0...) or l= ess MINOR releases as well? (8.4, 8.5, 9.1...) Less major, I don't mind minor ones as much to be honest. I welcomed 8.3 with open arms, I'm steering clear of 9.x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 23:01:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A6B106564A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 23:01:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5E98FC0A for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 23:01:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhj8 with SMTP id hj8so5711151wib.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to :x-gm-message-state; bh=o6Sera4IaqJiSteqE/iqQYCHzhbYp8CNfJPngT10LYQ=; b=fJSmoRfCfZ2Z4UWb97E5SySaT4TvaPiZpM/oImunhtnj6SeeADYEjopW433H0JjKKL mjiJVcPh7cVz64UuMeOfih0NOLqMYz0ItT9m0d8JP6LeQITdoJyLx1UyAsaAOKD5u11D KoTc54Ce69+VdQ5j0UM0SMwz0mTq4DP9KLlYt1N0xi84VegkzQh6p0Gu26nhGEtwqsYs OSTBJF6fO5beJhjtX1ZVLqd7M0nuvZtfCLr9CCuxcTTeiFoE7+FuK9rWEvCUeP6qm072 scvKti37cu1xWYB6rKjVmGsQpg97ZeULSo3OpCUww4tQO/OvPyvFzyzksPCrGEpnEXWH 3gdQ== Received: by 10.180.24.68 with SMTP id s4mr1100065wif.4.1339714878237; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (did75-17-88-165-130-96.fbx.proxad.net. [88.165.130.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z8sm24994783wiy.1.2012.06.14.16.01.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:01:17 -0700 (PDT) References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) From: Damien Fleuriot Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:01:14 +0200 To: Mark Linimon X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkoomEMeO+NzQ4S+A8wZZ8cnwxc597GD0C5Tsfa+RLzEEdUz/CyMyQmRHZDyW9fLMl1CrDb Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 23:01:19 -0000 On 14 Jun 2012, at 16:41, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:29:22AM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >> Whoever said STABLE is no good for production ? >>=20 >> I used to make us stick to 8.2-RELEASE here at work, but some bugfixes >> are just too important to skip (we're running firewalls and had a >> problem with a CARP bug). >=20 > In theory we try our best to keep -STABLE, well, stable in behavior and > not just the API, but in practice any given snapshot of -stable may or > may not have uncaught regressions in it. >=20 > I reiterate, the major difference between -stable and -release is a more > thorough QA process for the latter :-) >=20 > mcl We're indeed pretty happy with 8-STABLE :) We're ready to take the risk of a regression if the update squashes a bug th= at's a major PITA Thanks for your work on the project guys= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 00:51:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCA4B106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 00:51:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kabaev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712868FC14 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 00:51:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so1638384qcs.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:51:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=JnzqrOzRu/KTDSM57v79RHPcCKmOSwZnziNK2gDAi7c=; b=EPlDmlFaj5UNhLLPVyhDpBkYdinJzGLW6PYNw1p5FFWzezCT+D/1H5q2JjbmZeOonq bEq3O50yrymnWQXtjSlUoy0HBkLcLubF83OuQdGWCMBetNYGszmrIpH8wVE+raY6mDam mieJYxkxlJtGHD6Owuza2/B/bvbNszaK7rCwGs2rRSNX5s7LmztvPUNQmiWBhOUNn8t3 ZyyOCCQJrUOYRuG2QaVdpoaSx6CkZrxKcGc6unldx2tD85UMdiKNaWlmMs27BK9r7eUB r58FF9vcTO2bU1FVJ1GPlD4QpCxcOeDPoGFF2xZUJ3I+Fof6TCZbpywoXKaBDsm1RXVN Z47g== Received: by 10.224.27.129 with SMTP id i1mr8107457qac.19.1339721502955; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kan.dyndns.org (c-24-63-226-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.63.226.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n2sm19234622qap.10.2012.06.14.17.51.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:51:34 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: Richard Yao Message-ID: <20120614205134.0a43ee02@kan.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> References: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/=GLZ6zyeaTWF6BrLqvBqV1B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: gentoo-bsd@lists.gentoo.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Import crt{begin,end}.S from NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 00:51:43 -0000 --Sig_/=GLZ6zyeaTWF6BrLqvBqV1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:54:28 -0400 Richard Yao wrote: > NetBSD has replacements for GCC's crt{begin,end}.S: >=20 > http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/lib/csu/arch/?only_with_tag=3DMAIN >=20 > This would complement compiler-rt and libstdc++. We intend to import > it in downstream Gentoo FreeBSD. >=20 > Could this be imported into FreeBSD-CURRENT? Apart from licensing, what others reasons are there to do that? --=20 Alexander Kabaev --Sig_/=GLZ6zyeaTWF6BrLqvBqV1B Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFP2ocbQ6z1jMm+XZYRAppIAJ98uTO2b2Kb4dFBlg4bs83AzcmxZgCfUhgD 6c/UklA2enjHbvhPY4dUKZ0= =vmcz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/=GLZ6zyeaTWF6BrLqvBqV1B-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 02:01:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BEC4106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:01:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6728FC08 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:01:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF7F51B4001; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:01:36 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDA9732.9020804@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:00:18 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Kabaev References: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> <2073f978e4954a989754752f4da71f9a@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> In-Reply-To: <2073f978e4954a989754752f4da71f9a@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:23:53 +0000 Cc: "gentoo-bsd@lists.gentoo.org" , Richard Yao , "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Import crt{begin,end}.S from NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:01:38 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/14/12 20:51, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:54:28 -0400 > Richard Yao wrote: > >> NetBSD has replacements for GCC's crt{begin,end}.S: >> >> http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/lib/csu/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN >> >> This would complement compiler-rt and libstdc++. We intend to import >> it in downstream Gentoo FreeBSD. >> >> Could this be imported into FreeBSD-CURRENT? > > Apart from licensing, what others reasons are there to do that? > These components should not be tied to a specific compiler. If GCC is going to be deprecated, then they should be replaced. Anyway, having this tied to GCC has caused headaches for Clang integration in Gentoo. In particular, we let the user pick the toolchain that he uses, so we cannot place GCC's crt{begin,end}.o in the same location that FreeBSD uses. This makes it difficult for Clang to find the correct crt{begin,end}.o. We will likely import the NetBSD crt{begin,end}.S code to rectify this, but it would be preferable to do this in upstreamFreeBSD. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP2pcyAAoJECDuEZm+6ExkVTgP/0fjD1+pvrwKypxIg9KoqJ0+ iwKcKVir8Hwi+lADb2xG1rmDXK/KuFp838Fxr02HTECsWKnH477GNb5WNiDT52Uc jHfs9g8lY7W4BRNjnbVj0RxgZx8xhLFnrOUBrvkTd84Y5Mi+Y0qXx19+2L+NFVGd ZHY6ndeggAsyhAo0kaakMLqnAPDqjHhgk7SUJPeH/Zy7KtrO8MFeEwNUVzjXYytW YXmayxqyDjtN0UdYC7vHnes5dA6aiWDN4/LZTzybRz0GGaKkOXPPoN5QBFUen91j YHwiCh9NxHOXdEuYLYk1PVu29T6lUE+4U+2k57wRsODEnhgwDyh5184wYfs3gp2k ttsgBun4aH0AHNdUK6G0XLx/dR7hAPxommmRYVclr/7EpCYhHRDKGvGXUvK8XC79 +ON55vfGCho3kqevjGsQZR1f5hXbKKaKu8JqGQT3LaGz1eSs8jLRDilYA7nTKstY rx83HU0YQa9c+NdZBYnHXgwjJXJLxIL6rr8E7NQE/co99iNKnHgyar9B6RwbDLMZ iHX5PUOXikb7OOaXGTNCQas59eO6tHnNrWbmknm59w8fkOjXeiKEliT3Xk8qlLZx l29JmAPMYzuNNoF0RJJ9QvUUJ9Q8CVScrzJVw4PuVdzJMSrKmG9/ggh2yDw161Lp DJ8ETPIuVOCGdH2G2mqs =51Ky -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 02:24:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF201065673 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:24:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kabaev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA758FC1B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:24:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qafi31 with SMTP id i31so69098qaf.15 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:24:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nZY2ch5XQBjQEYcz7anTm0Sbhd3IHXgwSiVhdIKjGXI=; b=BTcb/1Cf3uCvDH8CF5xzRJPHLf8QDk9dZReuqlqc8pY64qm4GXC3+Ni1DUDASLVUwX pGndsbHTNG2zbe3TABpuzGSu75UZ2Uj9VHm++AdkAH7xt9Z7Ym3Dlcwwi7EmiuyZeE1p lkyjY72BN+IS7sMjlJwn8N+1Yg9wArOffTOFObkgrOUYw/pZZKD87xKtDXapRTIUOd2c meP3DJm7fcYyl7IhcLYqYiaMeGvUqK9KSDGJAXKJNH3F45qmfz/oJa3PuvCZeyQCqgdf xT73aHby6+uphvxozkiS8ZXGIBSQrPpF3+dSD5VUGQqHx14v+gFWc3E42P8HuhHDrkIn C9Eg== Received: by 10.229.135.73 with SMTP id m9mr2113427qct.130.1339727080274; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kan.dyndns.org (c-24-63-226-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.63.226.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cz12sm19699578qab.5.2012.06.14.19.24.38 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:24:32 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: Richard Yao Message-ID: <20120614222432.24e52fee@kan.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <4FDA9732.9020804@gentoo.org> References: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> <2073f978e4954a989754752f4da71f9a@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FDA9732.9020804@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Cc: "gentoo-bsd@lists.gentoo.org" , "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Import crt{begin,end}.S from NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:24:41 -0000 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KSGFzaDogU0hBMQ0KDQpPbiBUaHUs IDE0IEp1biAyMDEyIDIyOjAwOjE4IC0wNDAwDQpSaWNoYXJkIFlhbyA8cnlhb0BnZW50b28ub3Jn PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiANCj4gLS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KPiBI YXNoOiBTSEExDQo+IA0KPiBPbiAwNi8xNC8xMiAyMDo1MSwgQWxleGFuZGVyIEthYmFldiB3cm90 ZToNCj4gPiBPbiBUaHUsIDE0IEp1biAyMDEyIDE0OjU0OjI4IC0wNDAwDQo+ID4gUmljaGFyZCBZ YW8gPHJ5YW9AZ2VudG9vLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4NCj4gPj4gTmV0QlNEIGhhcyByZXBsYWNl bWVudHMgZm9yIEdDQydzIGNydHtiZWdpbixlbmR9LlM6DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IGh0dHA6Ly9jdnN3 ZWIubmV0YnNkLm9yZy9ic2R3ZWIuY2dpL3NyYy9saWIvY3N1L2FyY2gvP29ubHlfd2l0aF90YWc9 TUFJTg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBUaGlzIHdvdWxkIGNvbXBsZW1lbnQgY29tcGlsZXItcnQgYW5kIGxp YnN0ZGMrKy4gV2UgaW50ZW5kIHRvDQo+ID4+IGltcG9ydCBpdCBpbiBkb3duc3RyZWFtIEdlbnRv byBGcmVlQlNELg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBDb3VsZCB0aGlzIGJlIGltcG9ydGVkIGludG8gRnJlZUJT RC1DVVJSRU5UPw0KPiA+DQo+ID4gQXBhcnQgZnJvbSBsaWNlbnNpbmcsIHdoYXQgb3RoZXJzIHJl YXNvbnMgYXJlIHRoZXJlIHRvIGRvIHRoYXQ/DQo+ID4NCj4gVGhlc2UgY29tcG9uZW50cyBzaG91 bGQgbm90IGJlIHRpZWQgdG8gYSBzcGVjaWZpYyBjb21waWxlci4gSWYgR0NDIGlzDQo+IGdvaW5n IHRvIGJlIGRlcHJlY2F0ZWQsIHRoZW4gdGhleSBzaG91bGQgYmUgcmVwbGFjZWQuDQo+IA0KPiBB bnl3YXksIGhhdmluZyB0aGlzIHRpZWQgdG8gR0NDIGhhcyBjYXVzZWQgaGVhZGFjaGVzIGZvciBD bGFuZw0KPiBpbnRlZ3JhdGlvbiBpbiBHZW50b28uIEluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIHdlIGxldCB0aGUg dXNlciBwaWNrIHRoZQ0KPiB0b29sY2hhaW4gdGhhdCBoZSB1c2VzLCBzbyB3ZSBjYW5ub3QgcGxh Y2UgR0NDJ3MgY3J0e2JlZ2luLGVuZH0ubyBpbg0KPiB0aGUgc2FtZSBsb2NhdGlvbiB0aGF0IEZy ZWVCU0QgdXNlcy4gVGhpcyBtYWtlcyBpdCBkaWZmaWN1bHQgZm9yDQo+IENsYW5nIHRvIGZpbmQg dGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgY3J0e2JlZ2luLGVuZH0uby4gV2Ugd2lsbCBsaWtlbHkgaW1wb3J0IHRoZQ0K PiBOZXRCU0QgY3J0e2JlZ2luLGVuZH0uUyBjb2RlIHRvIHJlY3RpZnkgdGhpcywgYnV0IGl0IHdv dWxkIGJlDQo+IHByZWZlcmFibGUgdG8gZG8gdGhpcyBpbiB1cHN0cmVhbUZyZWVCU0QuDQoNCkFz c3VtaW5nIE5ldEJTRCB2ZXJzaW9uIGlzIGEgZGlyZWN0IHBsdWdpbiBmb3IgY3J0YmVnaW4vZW5k IHByb3ZpZGVkDQpieSBHQ0MsIEkgc2VlIG5vIHJlYXNvbiB3aHkgd2UgY2Fubm90IGRvIHRoYXQu IEFyZSB5b3UgYXJlIHdpbGxpbmcgdG8gZG8NCnRoZSB3b3JrIGFuZCBzdWJtaXQgdGhlIHBhdGNo LCBvciB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHdhaXQgZm9yIHNvbWVvbmUgb24NCm91ciBzaWRlPyANCiANCi0g LS0NCkFsZXhhbmRlciBLYWJhZXYNCi0tLS0tQkVHSU4gUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tDQpWZXJz aW9uOiBHbnVQRyB2Mi4wLjE4IChGcmVlQlNEKQ0KDQppRDhEQlFGUDJwemxRNnoxak1tK1haWVJB ajlEQUtEaVloR2lSREw5T3c4L2ZrY0JXK0VPWDFEckp3Q2ZkSkg3DQpiTDl0MUZYdk1odWE2YnUy U3Y1QndHRT0NCj1EYkxnDQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0NCg== From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 02:25:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B22106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:25:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B888FC08 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:25:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so3553306dad.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ILxO1pQOXhyYMeFDQYvg9xpVbNoN31SF9m2xdThpWmY=; b=E7x19Q65SsB1CFRGVgrzjdM1pNzMxQrq+TTXUOlZBPQvgTyGigbX56OfDIGoka6Q5j hwUQ7B5L/HlUHtWSdyGVqghnucvEXx7pG+ESOcD8JrSCG8t6YMbn8+Mjkh6K2CjSJujm iPx8pcE6zZ+gdLaCAA9WesMJC/kEAqv1t1BqQAwu2CO+zfp+2nII1of2mp7K8Q4ijNre UEDavHfxh94DWKOBG8CTJ0vo62aieJDkgZZGDfEWk0iwqhM8NrDzoShFgJUJU8b80aC4 7c4TP0xKH96LAuTFhoNzxnzF/T218MMe9uJR49QT1tJbLcAvQ25xdZi0m2g3Hsad9y9f zPjA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.234.35 with SMTP id ub3mr15056352pbc.8.1339727128785; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:25:28 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ywWlH1DUfe01GQKTIkIv8gQCeoA Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Damien Fleuriot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:25:29 -0000 Hi, 9 will mature as people use it and report bugs/regressions. It would be really great if you could try some of your workload on -9 and provide feedback and file PRs. Engaging with the community (and hiring developers :) is by far the best way to get things to mature quickly. 2c, Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 02:41:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EB4106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:41:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@gentoo.org) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E8C8FC0C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:41:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [108.46.203.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ryao) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AB0EE1B4018; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:41:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDAA07C.3030509@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:39:56 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Kabaev References: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> <2073f978e4954a989754752f4da71f9a@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FDA9732.9020804@gentoo.org> <20120614222432.24e52fee@kan.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20120614222432.24e52fee@kan.dyndns.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:08:47 +0000 Cc: "gentoo-bsd@lists.gentoo.org" , "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Import crt{begin,end}.S from NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:41:15 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/14/12 22:24, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:00:18 -0400 Richard Yao > wrote: > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > >> On 06/14/12 20:51, Alexander Kabaev wrote: >>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:54:28 -0400 Richard Yao >>> wrote: >>> >>>> NetBSD has replacements for GCC's crt{begin,end}.S: >>>> >>>> http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/lib/csu/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN >>>> >>>> >>>> This would complement compiler-rt and libstdc++. We intend to >>>> import it in downstream Gentoo FreeBSD. >>>> >>>> Could this be imported into FreeBSD-CURRENT? >>> >>> Apart from licensing, what others reasons are there to do >>> that? >>> >> These components should not be tied to a specific compiler. If >> GCC is going to be deprecated, then they should be replaced. > >> Anyway, having this tied to GCC has caused headaches for Clang >> integration in Gentoo. In particular, we let the user pick the >> toolchain that he uses, so we cannot place GCC's crt{begin,end}.o >> in the same location that FreeBSD uses. This makes it difficult >> for Clang to find the correct crt{begin,end}.o. We will likely >> import the NetBSD crt{begin,end}.S code to rectify this, but it >> would be preferable to do this in upstreamFreeBSD. > > Assuming NetBSD version is a direct plugin for crtbegin/end > provided by GCC, I see no reason why we cannot do that. Are you are > willing to do the work and submit the patch, or would like to wait > for someone on our side? > Gentoo FreeBSD is currently based on FreeBSD 9-RELEASE. I plan to do the work to import this downstream within the week, but I am not running CURRENT. It might be necessary to iterate on the patches before they can be merged. When I have them, should I file a PR or post them to the list? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJP2qB8AAoJECDuEZm+6Exk9YIP/ih8FwyH48zp1GH4vtlF3NAq kxqCefhDvgys+np6eYO65W7Gy55NGlwXuRlI8V5sVPea8pgFAXPceGureKrdJCda HpTdSi/KTAg0Is9PO6Ev4AoLYhEslCbMbQCOAWhRymZIn2MuuEQMjWw8aRWayebJ VVAIBLzUGrWlHxwfgkaxvO5V4obbetVFewJH+3X9kUDDawXZAYuTl+Llo4GW7lLn z8/rOciUDqDKy1vFr7R/9998ruJpRG5hAfeA/ovZTUYkO0bmAOpMWrjA9z/rzBEq 2kKAyeQLYfcCtChWvtl3y3WwhBp7uJfbKhiNZlbg8iVZ4YVVJ4xxFUCsz+7CvAwt BTJ3/Lt1xdrxvMTE/N8b/AwRW/sGgeEqdukPHFhhIbkYRHvvhU7LC7fXC3UxfhP4 J+KHQS1e2jjqqJUnFKa1g5AE6heB2ZlfCNIJH3pZXYGAfz9ff4000az+u9klYSOY 58mL3IR9X0BZboyG263P5cVsyYuT3BEhpEIhUzcvfJvS+vD8lBSYhkub2tgx27Hu +ov0zvhefZfOpnIRv8K4/KTuEd2scVx4hwOOcnr79PZhPfuyEqqybqrgUJeHH7in cviufLF0YpMwAutiE5g5ySKPlomKjRR3jRhJO9KyQ0giViT5Ppt/aq4UHb6WJDtf KVWinFLrnibIKUWJczXZ =brrQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 03:22:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D59106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:22:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86B98FC19 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:22:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so4264815obc.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:22:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Bb8JkB5vnOc7VKwPEMyef5YqZbg/zkHtwY0gRGTmKKw=; b=i56MFQaPtmrcsAx++avIr9icaMqe5n8h6NTtV2TriiCKufMPHutSwsg6gCRoGv2LU8 A2ntNVb0q5Z1aGTtVUhxdtvD+IikKNvQFzjj7UPoOV5d5u4tqDR7VDC3heaWj5VwIDJ4 421bkwFW9YlXsYmKIvdtXO7wEvUGCasPWVB/d4as8Wk3tCLAw/8vDo0TLy+ywLeRIDWN wO3eyGSG5KzLsGtxGcZN0LC7YPhHds/snNc20toTvG8uzpo9uGNEEvOceJnPfVv4IQPN 7VbtzYTAmNg4Hd2K4ANgH7/7T91W5cN4YskFKE/MIiu9bwAqKc7UN+SmsAHfk5cCWvuD Mxtg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.40.5 with SMTP id t5mr4240535obk.68.1339730565405; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:22:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FDAA07C.3030509@gentoo.org> References: <4FDA3364.2020102@gentoo.org> <2073f978e4954a989754752f4da71f9a@HUBCAS2.cs.stonybrook.edu> <4FDA9732.9020804@gentoo.org> <20120614222432.24e52fee@kan.dyndns.org> <4FDAA07C.3030509@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:22:45 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "gentoo-bsd@lists.gentoo.org" , "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Import crt{begin,end}.S from NetBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:22:46 -0000 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Richard Yao wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 06/14/12 22:24, Alexander Kabaev wrote: >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:00:18 -0400 Richard Yao >> wrote: >> >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >>> On 06/14/12 20:51, Alexander Kabaev wrote: >>>> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:54:28 -0400 Richard Yao >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> NetBSD has replacements for GCC's crt{begin,end}.S: >>>>> >>>>> http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/lib/csu/arch/?only_with_tag=MAIN >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > This would complement compiler-rt and libstdc++. We intend to >>>>> import it in downstream Gentoo FreeBSD. >>>>> >>>>> Could this be imported into FreeBSD-CURRENT? >>>> >>>> Apart from licensing, what others reasons are there to do >>>> that? >>>> >>> These components should not be tied to a specific compiler. If >>> GCC is going to be deprecated, then they should be replaced. >> >>> Anyway, having this tied to GCC has caused headaches for Clang >>> integration in Gentoo. In particular, we let the user pick the >>> toolchain that he uses, so we cannot place GCC's crt{begin,end}.o >>> in the same location that FreeBSD uses. This makes it difficult >>> for Clang to find the correct crt{begin,end}.o. We will likely >>> import the NetBSD crt{begin,end}.S code to rectify this, but it >>> would be preferable to do this in upstreamFreeBSD. >> >> Assuming NetBSD version is a direct plugin for crtbegin/end >> provided by GCC, I see no reason why we cannot do that. Are you are >> willing to do the work and submit the patch, or would like to wait >> for someone on our side? > > Gentoo FreeBSD is currently based on FreeBSD 9-RELEASE. I plan to do > the work to import this downstream within the week, but I am not > running CURRENT. It might be necessary to iterate on the patches > before they can be merged. When I have them, should I file a PR or > post them to the list? File a PR, post a link to the PR on a list / to devs generally is the best way to go. Thanks! -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 08:03:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751EC10656AB for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:03:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28438FC12 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:03:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-254-65.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.254.65]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5F7tQYI080660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:55:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (aspire.rulingia.com [192.168.123.161]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5F7tJ82064179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:55:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5F7tJRn004345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:55:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@aspire.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5F7tHL4004344; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:55:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:55:17 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Ian Lepore , Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120615075517.GA99709@aspire.rulingia.com> References: <4FD66F7E.2060404@brandonfa.lk> <1339593689.73426.8.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201206132155.22111.hselasky@c2i.net> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Boot Times X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:03:36 -0000 --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-13 21:55:22 +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >Try setting: > >sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=3D1 Note that this is a tunable and will need to be specified in /boot/loader.c= onf to have any effect. --=20 Peter Jeremy --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/a6mUACgkQ/opHv/APuIegLACfS3F7/QvIlmnAx7aVzJcmWqbA FzAAn10/g0rJC7q8VTwt8QwF77R2kN73 =SXcv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2oS5YaxWCcQjTEyO-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 08:16:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987611065670 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:16:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ey0-f182.google.com (mail-ey0-f182.google.com [209.85.215.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1CA8FC12 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:16:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eabm6 with SMTP id m6so930117eab.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:16:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=EML44w4eyMKNWWb98ZIhwe7gV7vd5/z8N7jGDxM0hWM=; b=QyJsh0HKuw93HzDCapAjWNGxr+sM5+JjTq5NfNc0cmRIE/3uw9XfFdNMY553Np/TkE oNVaWLRXIHqJJp46YVUhBN+aB096Shh3VxVf9P0sLVtWd4S6Yav/JkvwIWoUSWKHVwpw 0ZGBfkv16+Fxbp5p7W53FeIMtkwt6d66gyBz4LoqPcg9WPdeNjn5d6Z6YZaqd1EAo/31 XfI0tjJJtBpR9bciJzAaiUg+HCTl7k9f59umBk95tJy9J7poEDYEmhmLlHE3xizgnBDY Rgj0YICoAuQvIUtaHHmfFGdwo4OjocqLoe+MtX7Cxu1jVYPEzzddLV7TGyznsI+shvkz 0mWw== Received: by 10.14.48.71 with SMTP id u47mr1142088eeb.205.1339748194172; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot.local (tui75-3-88-168-239-38.fbx.proxad.net. [88.168.239.38]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z5sm28016230eem.3.2012.06.15.01.16.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:16:30 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Chadd References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmEFDgRnffRCnkVdypCgtDiBnw1/nMf52eWMmJwGatrUxwBLIezXb4vbw6ttELmBj+v/cHa Cc: Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:16:35 -0000 On 6/15/12 4:25 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hi, > > 9 will mature as people use it and report bugs/regressions. It would > be really great if you could try some of your workload on -9 and > provide feedback and file PRs. > > Engaging with the community (and hiring developers :) is by far the > best way to get things to mature quickly. > > 2c, > > Adrian I wholeheartedly agree, however the cheer number of problem reports I've seen on the ml when 9.0 came out really chilled me away. There are not many boxes I could try 9.0 on, because they're in production with pfsync to conserve client sessions and I'm loath to take risks with most of our firewalls. I'm thinking we might jump straight from 8.x to 10 when the time comes, I'm really looking forward to Gleb's work on CARP and PF ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 08:18:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C951065677 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:18:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC1818FC1C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:18:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so5261839pbb.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:18:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=LFpFP5BOVQI9b05v9LYJabrUKYg/VlF6T7N/cgo7zUw=; b=gkaaeI9R4ojq960haOxONfXE95l/D+8A6vbvy+LSanLTK7H27PLEaO5m44ozozatSt CbQoJVUM28ioX+xyizYZtVfsGCWnI1mnMnZOIn1uq4tHEHMkRxEPxjEIoOtv5vJqnJnU V8ZMbjmJ4Ygru7eA6BuMC1kxthFSLudL0NkI2aq5UGg8vVXB3DguxFTfA1BH289QuW4B h1s17maDHlvu4/93RKf60tVKOh5v2OfKtJg+vv3VEtT35K+wBIZiKWFgH936o4chBZxx /r8TqM2FKjk+73gTuGNlHq0C4DEnRlT6+jG7ZoKAzBvbW50Mg+lwKQV2MkcTVk9VDDL+ kZdw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.135.201 with SMTP id pu9mr16212315pbb.146.1339748308345; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:18:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:18:28 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2Xx4VIRQIchSihmsQNfYgpM-PEE Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Damien Fleuriot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:18:29 -0000 10.x will likely be more stable if 9.x gets stressed, and the bugs from there get fixed in -HEAD. I know this goes against what users expect, but as a software developer, QA is only as good as your testing and validation procedures. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 08:39:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC098106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:39:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vps.rulingia.com (host-122-100-2-194.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4F38FC19 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:39:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.rulingia.com (c220-239-254-65.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.254.65]) by vps.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5F8dA8m080798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:39:10 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (aspire.rulingia.com [192.168.123.161]) by server.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5F8d36N064591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:39:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from aspire.rulingia.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5F8d3fs004392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:39:03 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@aspire.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by aspire.rulingia.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q5F8d3tR004391; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:39:03 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:39:03 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Chris Rees Message-ID: <20120615083903.GB99709@aspire.rulingia.com> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LpQ9ahxlCli8rRTG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:39:11 -0000 --LpQ9ahxlCli8rRTG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Jun-14 08:09:30 +0100, Chris Rees wrote: >Except STABLE is no good for production, and the problem is EoL- updates >and support stop. There's nothing stopping you from from running -stable in production. Obviously, you will need to do more extensive testing than you might need to for a -release. As for EoL, all software goes EoL and support for that software stops. FreeBSD releases are typically supported for 4 years - IMO, that's excellent value for money. On 2012-Jun-14 12:48:19 +0100, Chris Rees wrote: >On Jun 14, 2012 9:30 AM, "Damien Fleuriot" wrote: >> I've moved us to 8.3-STABLE recently and am quite happy with it, so far. > >Too strong wording perhaps; but you can't claim that an EOL stable branch >will have the level of support afforded to live branches. That was >supposed to be my point, as Mark has also explained. You are the only person that is claiming that 8.x is EOL. I have not seen any official announcement to that effect. The absence of an announcement of 8.4-release does not make it EOL. --=20 Peter Jeremy --LpQ9ahxlCli8rRTG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk/a9KcACgkQ/opHv/APuIeOyQCgxOUlCmpN4sBFyEiP+dcW9w9n /bYAnRrDy1mqs8r4yxPVrPgIF1pj4Iyi =AWDR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LpQ9ahxlCli8rRTG-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 08:40:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C42B106566C; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:40:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26AA8FC21; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:40:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so4724844obc.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:40:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=CMEFtIrawffy95bj/QSXhB5l3uvZCsgR+819DJimzAs=; b=Pj/CKc2bzRcHXfhTshlS9UGdUV2PHaLgBGMUuHIzHUdeybyMqw+RXAClSm/zjzwTJB FacTX8A7w77hVt6rLejm/6vOPHlJjcIrlNwvUru83Xd4r0CG9g7wqRGLQRO03Lr9mbko huIXjsPynt8WqYsVUUp8ZWR0k716noDgr+K/BArkxn1oLUFaSGY5W5nmCiB1gWVURmnW gUSOUR4il8/cC5ev1zOno+coDDSiv6/ejWQUgCyZ9VNPMlagsEVDncXRucMynpJUoW2H QLMBBzMGam21Fd0EugpAcRf65THkrRDzrduKcN/z7nRnshNMu3mdwS//jik1j0bzd9j4 O2aQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.164.69 with SMTP id yo5mr5064688obb.17.1339749637397; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:40:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:40:37 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Adrian Chadd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:40:38 -0000 On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > 10.x will likely be more stable if 9.x gets stressed, and the bugs > from there get fixed in -HEAD. > > I know this goes against what users expect, but as a software > developer, QA is only as good as your testing and validation > procedures. :) Being a realist (once again) most groups I've dealt with that have the resources to test their releases lag behind by CURRENT-2 major releases to avoid pushing unqualified code out on to customers. Not everyone is willing to bet on the bleeding edge of things, but this needs to change in order for things to move forward (this is something that my previous mentor at IronPort -- ambrisko@ -- encouraged for me to do and he exercised on a regular basis). The problem is time when it comes to pushing features forward to a newer OS release and testing them (IronPort used to do this, but no longer does as the individuals who used to do this left the group for other greener pastures). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 08:52:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14DB1065677; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5B98FC0C; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:52:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 136CE5620B; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:52:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:52:40 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Damien Fleuriot Message-ID: <20120615085240.GA11343@lonesome.com> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:11:40 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:52:40 -0000 On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:16:30AM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > I'm thinking we might jump straight from 8.x to 10 when the time comes, > I'm really looking forward to Gleb's work on CARP and PF ;) I don't know why you might think one .0 release would be more mature than another .0 release. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. > There are not many boxes I could try 9.0 on, because they're in > production with pfsync to conserve client sessions and I'm loath to > take risks with most of our firewalls. This is where having one or more systems for development is key. Installations like yours are in a far better situation to test FreeBSD under realistic loads than are all but a few of the FreeBSD developers. I would urge testing long before the leadup to a .0 release, not afterwards. Apologies if I'm just repeating myself here, but FreeBSD does not have a dedicated QA department. We are reliant on our users to test in real- world conditions. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 12:10:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82123106566C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:10:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F738FC12 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:10:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so2858446bkv.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:10:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=fM2HNpax4vbBJBbBPQ1l9D5erT4xmHKzSSzOwJGqkpA=; b=0Vv64pXCgY7N0Vgzvn9jRF3MrIxobXupuw7fXWOfH/zhDrdcPKGgQr6yF21K3nl8Id Nq30k8iccOLGC87BmpMFKFPhB+aRMiKwLtAcSa9JyjIbpqd9xuZ4/qI5MiVm+JzdN5oq VaK7K2Ut4tjHgKSzs67jG5dmmRRYvPgeH32tKzMvrtbLnOICQoxkO2LkwZsoFWfbA3pR G7plH7myeF3dSw8mwnbEQrY84mwmWJl3k26+3gsrTGxe0RJnvdwu0gjsiepT0T1RFRuq nSUlt7vJ25nFUbeSdt2/0q7rILcKNO1lyMPWThSWatYT36tZoNw8qt6PvfH85GeT8zc0 FG/A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.156.69 with SMTP id v5mr2713951bkw.133.1339762230808; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:10:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120615083903.GB99709@aspire.rulingia.com> References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120615083903.GB99709@aspire.rulingia.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:10:30 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Peter Jeremy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:10:32 -0000 On Jun 15, 2012 9:39 AM, "Peter Jeremy" wrote: > > On 2012-Jun-14 08:09:30 +0100, Chris Rees wrote: > >Except STABLE is no good for production, and the problem is EoL- updates > >and support stop. > > There's nothing stopping you from from running -stable in production. > Obviously, you will need to do more extensive testing than you might > need to for a -release. > > As for EoL, all software goes EoL and support for that software stops. > FreeBSD releases are typically supported for 4 years - IMO, that's > excellent value for money. > > On 2012-Jun-14 12:48:19 +0100, Chris Rees wrote: > >On Jun 14, 2012 9:30 AM, "Damien Fleuriot" wrote: > >> I've moved us to 8.3-STABLE recently and am quite happy with it, so far. > > > >Too strong wording perhaps; but you can't claim that an EOL stable branch > >will have the level of support afforded to live branches. That was > >supposed to be my point, as Mark has also explained. > > You are the only person that is claiming that 8.x is EOL. I have not > seen any official announcement to that effect. The absence of an > announcement of 8.4-release does not make it EOL. Of course not. The fear that this whole thread is about the possibility of EoL this year or soon; the OP wants support for longer. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 12:34:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CBA106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:34:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varuna@eudaemonicsystems.net) Received: from lnx6.securehostdns.com (174.36.194.176-static.reverse.softlayer.com [174.36.194.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5968FC12 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [117.216.174.113] (port=26819 helo=shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net) by lnx6.securehostdns.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SfVK6-0005F5-HX for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:38:19 +0530 Message-ID: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:39:04 +0530 From: Varuna Organization: Eudaemonic Systems User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20100716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - lnx6.securehostdns.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - eudaemonicsystems.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:34:20 -0000 Hello Folks, Noticed a strange issue with the creation / update of /etc/resolv.conf. The details of the system that I noticed the issue on is: Version : FreeBSD 8.0 Patch level: not patched Uname: FreeBSD shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net 8.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE #0: Thu Sep 29 22:37:51 IST 2011 root@shastry.bhuta.in:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SHASTRY i386 I generally have a static IP 192.168.98.6 (via rc.conf) for my Beastie. The contents of my /etc/resolv.conf is as follows: domain eudaemonicsystems.net nameserver 208.67.222.222 nameserver 208.67.220.220 nameserver 4.2.2.2 No matter how many times I reboot the system, the resolv.conf does not get overwritten when configured with a static IP. I modified the /etc/rc.conf to have the flag: ifconfig_re0="DHCP" The next reboot of the system caused the /etc/resolv.conf to be overwritten with the following contents: nameserver 192.168.98.4 I was baffled with this behaviour and checked /etc/rc.d/resolv script and there was no reason as to why "[ ! -e /etc/resolv.conf]" should fail at any given instance. Out of curiosity executed "/bin/kenv dhcp.domain-name" which returned with the info: kenv: unable to get dhcp.domain-name. Would it be fair to assume that /etc/rc.d/resolv not to cause the issue? What is causing this behaviour? Have I missed something? Had a look at network-dhcp.html, and found /etc/dhclient.conf to be empty on my system. Digging further, was looking at the scripts under /etc/rc.d, found /etc/rc.d/named to be another script creating the /etc/resolv.conf and this was in the routine named_precmd(). I have not enabled 'named_enable' flag in /etc/rc.conf, while it is commented; by default; in /etc/defaults/rc.conf file. Found /sbin/dhclient-script to be another script that creates /etc/resolv.conf, and this; as I understand; is being referred to by /usr/src/sbin/dhclient/clparse.c and /usr/src/sbin/dhclient/dhclient.c. The script /sbin/dhclient-script has a case option which is: BOUND|RENEW|REBIND|REBOOT). I suppose this is causing the function add_new_resolv_conf() to be invoked. In this function, found the following code (yes, I have marked the code of interest with 1***, 2***, 3*** and 4***): 1*** if [ -n "$new_domain_name_servers" ]; then for nameserver in $new_domain_name_servers; do echo "nameserver $nameserver" >>$tmpres done fi if [ -f $tmpres ]; then if [ -f /etc/resolv.conf.tail ]; then cat /etc/resolv.conf.tail >>$tmpres fi 2*** # When resolv.conf is not changed actually, we don't # need to update it. # If /usr is not mounted yet, we cannot use cmp, then # the following test fails. In such case, we simply # ignore an error and do update resolv.conf. 3*** if cmp -s $tmpres /etc/resolv.conf; then rm -f $tmpres return 0 fi 2>/dev/null # In case (e.g. during OpenBSD installs) /etc/resolv.conf # is a symbolic link, take care to preserve the link and write # the new data in the correct location. to a system if [ -f /etc/resolv.conf ]; then cat /etc/resolv.conf > /etc/resolv.conf.save fi 4*** cat $tmpres > /etc/resolv.conf rm -f $tmpres # Try to ensure correct ownership and permissions. chown -RL root:wheel /etc/resolv.conf chmod -RL 644 /etc/resolv.conf return 0 fi I guess, the 1***, 3*** and 4*** is causing the recreation of /etc/resolv.conf. Is this correct? I did a small modification to 3*** which is: if !(cmp -s $tmpres /etc/resolv.conf); then rm -f $tmpres return 0 fi 2>/dev/null This seems to have solved the issue of /etc/resolv.conf getting overwritten with just: nameserver 192.168.98.4. This ensures that: If there is a difference between $tmpres and /etc/resolv.conf, then it exits post removal of $tmpres. If the execution of 3*** returns a 0, a new file gets created. I guess the modification get the intent of 3*** working. Have I barked up the wrong tree? Consider the scenarios when DHCP is enabled on my laptop which is shutdown and started at change of location of usage: 1. Office IP address space is different from the home router IP address range. 2. Office IP address space = home IP address space, router has different IP address. 3. Scenario 2 + IP address is reserved for my laptop is fixed with the MAC address in the router. The /sbin/dhclient-script get even more complex to handle such scenarios; yes, I still have not yet reached that stage. About 2***, so what are the conditions to be true to figure out that /etc/resolv.conf has not changed? What are the checks made to see if /usr is not yet mounted. Not sure if the code; following the comment under 2***; how it behaves when the following is the output of mount: /dev/ad4s1a on / (ufs, local) devfs on /dev (devfs, local, multilabel) /dev/ad4s1f on /home (ufs, local, soft-updates) /dev/ad4s1d on /usr/ports (ufs, local, soft-updates) /dev/ad4s1e on /usr/src (ufs, local, soft-updates) procfs on /proc (procfs, local) linprocfs on /usr/compat/linux/proc (linprocfs, local) Now I guess the code in 3*** should also be modified to check if the /usr/bin/cmp is available. Would this be correct? With regards, Varuna Eudaemonic Systems Simple, Specific & Insightful IT Consultants, Continued Education & Systems Distribution +91-88-92-47-62-63 http://www.eudaemonicsystems.net http://enquiry.eudaemonicsystems.net ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use or disseminate this information in any format. If you have received this email in error, please do delete it along with copies of it existing in any other format, and notify the sender immediately. The sender of this email believes it is virus free, and does not accept any liability for any errors or omissions arising thereof. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 12:47:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1FE106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9F38FC17 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:47:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so2895065bkv.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:47:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jcpKhny7IAVN/ZOHaZwpVXxnLXAeKs1475OCdZQ3RDE=; b=EWbCpAjWfbOiNv8zxApidTB1zy+/pTUX0SV4sV4Cilwq2Sd0x2seZtH4lKXHVQfYuM leWiuZdYhRcKSzQl5p0EIT1V++iwQwtIwp1pO77/VtLX3z99ECJT2R74uU/lDpS6bLg2 z8uPl1fLsROoYJmbc36XnPgTiPcVrelTUJWoBf/Vnkx/XNJvhx3mbiCa0sxvXWQe7k5d OWSoFuT+F5xxoO6gBwQtn4Z5n597SPDymlJWzBpagRWZQjmqVniUSnrerq5Cvziglxnk 4+35cDu5e7CrMB73julTXz2ZKqhzsMIYEa2aDpV0MG+c4/+gIyKitboBDnBCHGSQ9D6q 1ESQ== Received: by 10.204.148.75 with SMTP id o11mr2865104bkv.11.1339764436033; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from green.tandem.local (utwig.xim.bz. [91.216.237.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id iq16sm10081199bkc.6.2012.06.15.05.47.13 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 05:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDB2ECF.70304@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:47:11 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120605 Firefox/12.0 SeaMonkey/2.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Varuna References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:47:17 -0000 Varuna wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Noticed a strange issue with the creation / update of /etc/resolv.conf. > The details of the system that I noticed the issue on is: > Version : FreeBSD 8.0 > Patch level: not patched > Uname: FreeBSD shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net 8.0-RELEASE FreeBSD > 8.0-RELEASE #0: Thu Sep 29 22:37:51 IST 2011 > root@shastry.bhuta.in:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SHASTRY i386 > > > I generally have a static IP 192.168.98.6 (via rc.conf) for my Beastie. > The contents of my /etc/resolv.conf is as follows: > domain eudaemonicsystems.net > nameserver 208.67.222.222 > nameserver 208.67.220.220 > nameserver 4.2.2.2 > No matter how many times I reboot the system, the resolv.conf does not > get overwritten when configured with a static IP. 1. Since 9.0 we already have resolveconf(8) for this. 2. Empty dhclient.conf means default configuration, you can make your own, refusing nameserver updates coming from DHCP. 3. You can always chflags noschg any precious file. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 13:08:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3640D106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:08:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19BC8FC12 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:08:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so1053158eek.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:08:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=4Qfe/oTR+HBVAMkaigeFxd484zMMGlLesFDfWmLwE48=; b=iKUrwsMaUKHyHORAQ6c44WMjLOmX61TMaDU6/Gc+EomSEga4W7aAt8FWlTSQSnNo/k TsP0s7ibBXMhZficuQv3n+dmPzv9IaENs1miBQPGP3fT3eiuRqVqi364NqKSGD3ZM9KH boh3QY3xTbTV9t667tTPBoUMrc7H2ENu9SfUdVVTYXPRAS/wZrju2YMT+tIrsXaLrzk+ iIxgh19BUGUzg2pU34mrn9yJTWaDjWNVog48DXZxp4YixEeuNdbbQuTABCRQAvX9eMnd WmtPPZ3hR7VagIhsLLqRfxLgOP1YEgiP8Xa5M9HKRQgFAt4B4dusqbj7AIekFadC8oxi qC1g== Received: by 10.14.100.205 with SMTP id z53mr1391820eef.39.1339765723494; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o16sm30772863eeb.13.2012.06.15.06.08.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 06:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDB33D8.3010208@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:08:40 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon , Gleb Smirnoff References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> <4FDAEF5E.7090305@my.gd> <20120615085240.GA11343@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20120615085240.GA11343@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm19Ik3aloIZj2Pin5tQCA9BzLr33jeOeJTLahIivYhoWyiwF+S4vxI+1ItlmowjCRWC84w Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:08:45 -0000 On 6/15/12 10:52 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:16:30AM +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: >> I'm thinking we might jump straight from 8.x to 10 when the time comes, >> I'm really looking forward to Gleb's work on CARP and PF ;) > > I don't know why you might think one .0 release would be more mature > than another .0 release. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. > 10.0 hasn't scared the hell out of me, yet, on the ml... :p >> There are not many boxes I could try 9.0 on, because they're in >> production with pfsync to conserve client sessions and I'm loath to >> take risks with most of our firewalls. > > This is where having one or more systems for development is key. > My problem here is that the dev and preprod platforms are actively used by our devs, which means that it costs us money if we have an outage. I suppose I could try upgrading the backup box to 9.0 then swapping over to it. My main problem here is that we've got many machines to administer, on top of the network and security, and there's just me and myself that touch the firewalls. It always comes down to time being short... > Installations like yours are in a far better situation to test FreeBSD under > realistic loads than are all but a few of the FreeBSD developers. I would > urge testing long before the leadup to a .0 release, not afterwards. > I guess it couldn't hurt overmuch for me to test 9.0 on one of our projects, I could update 1 of the 4 boxes to 9.0 and make it carp master. If that goes well, 1-2 weeks later I could push 9.0 on another project which uses 4 *active* firewalls. This is a medium packet-rate [2][3] real life [1] project and could yield interesting results for you guys. @gleb Are there any counter indications against running 8-STABLE and 9-STABLE sets of firewalls with CARP and pfsync ? [1] Firewalls share 8 CARP IPs and are each master on 2 at a given time. Firewalls use VLAN tagging over a link aggregation interface. Firewalls use relayd to dynamically rdr packets to backend servers. [2] IRQs on broadcom NIC: # vmstat -i interrupt total rate irq9: acpi0 22 0 irq20: uhci3 20 0 irq21: uhci2 uhci4+ 25 0 cpu0: timer 2089687121 2000 irq256: bce0 33684311 32 irq257: bce1 8636578820 8266 [3] PF output: Status: Enabled for 12 days 02:10:48 Debug: Urgent Interface Stats for vlan20 IPv4 IPv6 Bytes In 522596420435 0 Bytes Out 5536513003172 0 Packets In Passed 4893000575 0 Blocked 144967803 0 Packets Out Passed 6005257543 0 Blocked 478378 0 State Table Total Rate current entries 16556 searches 22646986476 21679.1/s inserts 1368370473 1309.9/s removals 1368353917 1309.9/s Counters match 1650605688 1580.1/s From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 12:54:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47471065675; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:54:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from atte.peltomaki@iki.fi) Received: from kameli.org (kameli.org [83.150.86.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6548FC21; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:54:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kameli.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9047911F81E; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:48:49 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:48:49 +0300 From: Atte =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peltom=E4ki?= To: Richard Yao Message-ID: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:41:11 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , openrc@gentoo.org, Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:54:36 -0000 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 02:09:38PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: > Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if > FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel > free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We > would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. Replacing rc(8) has a lot of risks and not many benefits. Current system is somewhat limited, but it works, it's simple to understand and everyone already knows it and uses it. Solaris SMF is by far the most advanced bootup/service manager I've come across, even though it's UI is somewhat irritating. When configured correctly, you can trust SMF to deal with any problem; when a needed resource for a given service is down, that service isn't started. When the service is malfunctioning, it's restarted at a configured interval or marked as malfunctioning and stopped and admin is contacted. And so forth. Faster boot times come as a simple added bonus from proper design. Anyone serious about replacing rc(8) should take a good look at SMF feature list, then decide if such a thing is worth spending time reimplementing. Doing a dozen half-assed implementations like Linux is doing is just dumb and aggravates sysadmins. Personally, as much as I like power of SMF, I think FreeBSD devs have much more important (and interesting) things to do. -- Atte Peltomki atte.peltomaki@iki.fi <> http://kameli.org "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 13:42:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855D81065674 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:42:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fluffy@fluffy.khv.ru) Received: from forward11.mail.yandex.net (forward11.mail.yandex.net [95.108.130.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3415E8FC19 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:42:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp11.mail.yandex.net (smtp11.mail.yandex.net [95.108.130.67]) by forward11.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id B5D4CE81F9E; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:42:17 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp11.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp11.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 93F2E7E0521; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:42:17 +0400 (MSK) Received: from host85.static2.l2tp.ttkdv.ru (host85.static2.l2tp.ttkdv.ru [46.38.1.85]) by smtp11.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id gFnWHjLt-gGnGraTt; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:42:16 +0400 X-Yandex-Rcpt-Suid: varuna@eudaemonicsystems.net X-Yandex-Rcpt-Suid: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <4FDB3BAA.6090906@fluffy.khv.ru> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:42:02 +1100 From: Dima Panov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Varuna References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fluffy@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:42:19 -0000 15.06.2012 23:09, Varuna написал: > Hello Folks, > > Noticed a strange issue with the creation / update of > /etc/resolv.conf. The details of the system that I noticed the issue > on is: > Version : FreeBSD 8.0 > Patch level: not patched > Uname: FreeBSD shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net 8.0-RELEASE FreeBSD > 8.0-RELEASE #0: Thu Sep 29 22:37:51 IST 2011 > root@shastry.bhuta.in:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SHASTRY i386 > > > I generally have a static IP 192.168.98.6 (via rc.conf) for my > Beastie. The contents of my /etc/resolv.conf is as follows: > domain eudaemonicsystems.net > nameserver 208.67.222.222 > nameserver 208.67.220.220 > nameserver 4.2.2.2 > No matter how many times I reboot the system, the resolv.conf does not > get overwritten when configured with a static IP. > > I modified the /etc/rc.conf to have the flag: > ifconfig_re0="DHCP" > The next reboot of the system caused the /etc/resolv.conf to be > overwritten with the following contents: > nameserver 192.168.98.4 > > I was baffled with this behaviour and checked /etc/rc.d/resolv script > and there was no reason as to why "[ ! -e /etc/resolv.conf]" should > fail at any given instance. Out of curiosity executed "/bin/kenv > dhcp.domain-name" which returned with the info: kenv: unable to get > dhcp.domain-name. Would it be fair to assume that /etc/rc.d/resolv > not to cause the issue? > > What is causing this behaviour? Have I missed something? > > Had a look at network-dhcp.html, and found /etc/dhclient.conf to be > empty on my system. > > Digging further, was looking at the scripts under /etc/rc.d, found > /etc/rc.d/named to be another script creating the /etc/resolv.conf and > this was in the routine named_precmd(). I have not enabled > 'named_enable' flag in /etc/rc.conf, while it is commented; by > default; in /etc/defaults/rc.conf file. > From my /etc/dhclient.conf: interface "lagg0" { send dhcp-lease-time 3600; prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1, 4.4.4.4, 8.8.8.8; request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers, domain-name, domain-name-servers; require subnet-mask, domain-name-servers; } And result is /etc/resolv.conf: # Generated by resolvconf nameserver 127.0.0.1 nameserver 4.4.4.4 nameserver 8.8.8.8 nameserver 192.168.1.1 -- Dima Panov (fluffy@FreeBSD.org) (KDE, Office)@FreeBSD team Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/fluffy.khv IRC: fluffy@EFNet, fluffykhv@FreeNode twitter: fluffy_khv | skype: dima.panov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 13:51:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABCA106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:51:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3E28FC17 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:51:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.31]) by ltcfislmsgpa05.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5FDp3Gh020567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:51:30 -0500 Received: from LTCFISWMSGMB21.FNFIS.com ([10.132.99.23]) by LTCFISWMSGHT03.FNFIS.com ([10.132.206.31]) with mapi id 14.02.0283.003; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:51:21 -0500 From: "Teske, Devin" To: Volodymyr Kostyrko Thread-Topic: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp Thread-Index: AQHNSv3yznEnb+R6M0ql4JSdUMbymA== Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:51:21 +0000 Message-ID: <2E4FAA96-9C92-4B3F-A481-9D1D96C8517C@fisglobal.com> References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> <4FDB2ECF.70304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4FDB2ECF.70304@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.14.152.61] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7318DA55225AA14CB874F30A732C0959@fisglobal.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.7.7855, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-06-15_04:2012-06-15, 2012-06-15, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: "" , Varuna Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:51:39 -0000 On Jun 15, 2012, at 5:47 AM, Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > Varuna wrote: >> Hello Folks, >>=20 >> Noticed a strange issue with the creation / update of /etc/resolv.conf. >> The details of the system that I noticed the issue on is: >> Version : FreeBSD 8.0 >> Patch level: not patched >> Uname: FreeBSD shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net 8.0-RELEASE FreeBSD >> 8.0-RELEASE #0: Thu Sep 29 22:37:51 IST 2011 >> root@shastry.bhuta.in:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SHASTRY i386 >>=20 >>=20 >> I generally have a static IP 192.168.98.6 (via rc.conf) for my Beastie. >> The contents of my /etc/resolv.conf is as follows: >> domain eudaemonicsystems.net >> nameserver 208.67.222.222 >> nameserver 208.67.220.220 >> nameserver 4.2.2.2 >> No matter how many times I reboot the system, the resolv.conf does not >> get overwritten when configured with a static IP. >=20 > 1. Since 9.0 we already have resolveconf(8) for this. > 2. Empty dhclient.conf means default configuration, you can make your own= , refusing nameserver updates coming from DHCP. > 3. You can always chflags noschg any precious file. >=20 schg to disallow changes. noschg is incorrect. --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 14:15:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5018106566C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:15:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [62.231.161.221]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2B18FC0C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:15:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5FEEwuC021007; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:14:58 +0700 (NOVT) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Message-ID: <4FDB4362.8020509@grosbein.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:14:58 +0700 From: Eugene Grosbein User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; ru-RU; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20110112 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Varuna References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:35:44 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:15:08 -0000 15.06.2012 19:09, Varuna : > About 2***, so what are the conditions to be true to figure out that > /etc/resolv.conf has not changed? There is simple solution: create file /etc/dhclient-enter-hooks and override add_new_resolv_conf() there to do nothing: add_new_resolv_conf() { return 0 } Works just fine for my systems. Eugene Grosbein From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 17:31:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A641065676 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:31:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from varuna@eudaemonicsystems.net) Received: from lnx6.securehostdns.com (174.36.194.176-static.reverse.softlayer.com [174.36.194.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6235E8FC25 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:31:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [117.198.253.232] (port=50602 helo=shastry.eudaemonicsystems.net) by lnx6.securehostdns.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SfaNG-0003dp-Ks for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 23:01:55 +0530 Message-ID: <4FDB71B9.9070804@eudaemonicsystems.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 23:02:41 +0530 From: Varuna Organization: Eudaemonic Systems User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20100716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> <4FDB3BAA.6090906@fluffy.khv.ru> In-Reply-To: <4FDB3BAA.6090906@fluffy.khv.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - lnx6.securehostdns.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - eudaemonicsystems.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:31:56 -0000 Thanks for the pointers. Dima Panov wrote: > From my /etc/dhclient.conf: > > interface "lagg0" { > send dhcp-lease-time 3600; > prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1, 4.4.4.4, 8.8.8.8; > request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers, > domain-name, domain-name-servers; > require subnet-mask, domain-name-servers; > } > > And result is /etc/resolv.conf: > # Generated by resolvconf > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > nameserver 4.4.4.4 > nameserver 8.8.8.8 > nameserver 192.168.1.1 True indeed this will work and I did have a look at dhclient.conf(5) to setup the freebsd8:/etc/dhclient.conf. This will still call /sbin/dhclient-script which will overwrite the configuration done to the /etc/resolv.conf each time the system power is recycled. As per /usr/src/include/resolv.h, the MAXNS is by default set to 3; which the default configuration user will not be aware of as the entire focus will be on the ifconfig related flags in /etc/rc.conf. BTW, the example indicated in dhclient.conf(5) has a typo which says /etc/dhclient-script instead of /sbin/dhclient-script, indeed the system does not fail if the typo exists in dhclient.conf. Eugene Grosbein wrote: > There is simple solution: create file /etc/dhclient-enter-hooks > and override add_new_resolv_conf() there to do nothing: > > add_new_resolv_conf() { > return 0 > } > > Works just fine for my systems. Indeed this is a good suggestion, and this is if the user is aware of what to look for and where in /sbin/dhclient-script it is documented. A general sysadmin would be aware of /etc/nsswitch.conf and /etc/resolv.conf for name resolution issues and I do not think they will be aware of so many possible ways to handle the issue of resolv.conf getting overwritten by the usage of dhcp. What would be the way out? Do you think it would be a good idea to push the nameserver configuration information into /etc/rc.conf which happens to be the single file that would handle the system configuration? With regards, Varuna Eudaemonic Systems Simple, Specific & Insightful IT Consultants, Continued Education & Systems Distribution +91-88-92-47-62-63 http://www.eudaemonicsystems.net http://enquiry.eudaemonicsystems.net ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use or disseminate this information in any format. If you have received this email in error, please do delete it along with copies of it existing in any other format, and notify the sender immediately. The sender of this email believes it is virus free, and does not accept any liability for any errors or omissions arising thereof. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 18:20:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8AA106566C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:20:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BB98FC0A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:20:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by qmta10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Ngb41j0011smiN4AAiK7ci; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:19:07 +0000 Received: from damnhippie.dyndns.org ([24.8.232.202]) by omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id NiK61j0044NgCEG8giK6AZ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:19:07 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5FIJ41l035753; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@damnhippie.dyndns.org) From: Ian Lepore To: Varuna In-Reply-To: <4FDB71B9.9070804@eudaemonicsystems.net> References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> <4FDB3BAA.6090906@fluffy.khv.ru> <4FDB71B9.9070804@eudaemonicsystems.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:19:04 -0600 Message-ID: <1339784344.73426.40.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:20:13 -0000 On Fri, 2012-06-15 at 23:02 +0530, Varuna wrote: > Thanks for the pointers. > > Dima Panov wrote: > > From my /etc/dhclient.conf: > > > > interface "lagg0" { > > send dhcp-lease-time 3600; > > prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1, 4.4.4.4, 8.8.8.8; > > request subnet-mask, broadcast-address, time-offset, routers, > > domain-name, domain-name-servers; > > require subnet-mask, domain-name-servers; > > } > > > > And result is /etc/resolv.conf: > > # Generated by resolvconf > > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > nameserver 4.4.4.4 > > nameserver 8.8.8.8 > > nameserver 192.168.1.1 > True indeed this will work and I did have a look at dhclient.conf(5) to setup > the freebsd8:/etc/dhclient.conf. This will still call /sbin/dhclient-script > which will overwrite the configuration done to the /etc/resolv.conf each time > the system power is recycled. As per /usr/src/include/resolv.h, the MAXNS is by > default set to 3; which the default configuration user will not be aware of as > the entire focus will be on the ifconfig related flags in /etc/rc.conf. BTW, > the example indicated in dhclient.conf(5) has a typo which says > /etc/dhclient-script instead of /sbin/dhclient-script, indeed the system does > not fail if the typo exists in dhclient.conf. > > > Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > There is simple solution: create file /etc/dhclient-enter-hooks > > and override add_new_resolv_conf() there to do nothing: > > > > add_new_resolv_conf() { > > return 0 > > } > > > > Works just fine for my systems. > Indeed this is a good suggestion, and this is if the user is aware of what to > look for and where in /sbin/dhclient-script it is documented. > > A general sysadmin would be aware of /etc/nsswitch.conf and /etc/resolv.conf for > name resolution issues and I do not think they will be aware of so many possible > ways to handle the issue of resolv.conf getting overwritten by the usage of dhcp. > > What would be the way out? Do you think it would be a good idea to push the > nameserver configuration information into /etc/rc.conf which happens to be the > single file that would handle the system configuration? > > With regards, > Varuna > Eudaemonic Systems > Simple, Specific & Insightful > > IT Consultants, Continued Education & Systems Distribution > +91-88-92-47-62-63 > http://www.eudaemonicsystems.net > http://enquiry.eudaemonicsystems.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > This email is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you > are not the intended recipient, you must not use or disseminate > this information in any format. If you have received this email in > error, please do delete it along with copies of it existing in any > other format, and notify the sender immediately. The sender of this > email believes it is virus free, and does not accept any liability > for any errors or omissions arising thereof. > Using the 'prepend' or 'supercede' keywords in /etc/dhclient.conf is pretty much the standard way of handling a mix of static and dhcp interfaces where the static config needs to take precedence. I'm not sure why you dismiss it as essentially good, but somehow not good enough. It's been working for me for years. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 18:37:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9C61065670 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:37:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85368FC08 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so3248810bkv.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer; bh=EEOTQ0U/75WQNIbmVk6yqGfAjcyLII5azcptrbtgeEc=; b=OMmxlGI4P3mtikqopz1LdsTaJA/a1E5yAqPFClptAWUVEg6DqJUXkHtrPPovsVbdsG 3QRLHoBBgnix7efEEXnlu5cLFQ813bsceJP+c0MZki3UQMhCynKCweUDaozOTvQrNBm8 Yp1fCXOEt9w6fDvHI36IgQLU2FmRCk4M3tM6qfW1rPHrBIkVFWRUc8PbGQVWfYVcoufS 0p/e3ZMcS3sTCAgs0FJJUowNYJ/E38uhRho4LyeFKYSonZrYVgeG15URKgM7CWHK1Lg1 Afbl5COFXjYZIWIrtqXxlbHJ1w9kAmIe4G8nOSMU+6RLaMhDu+MMGAqN6dMBgISuCspX n7LA== Received: by 10.204.145.89 with SMTP id c25mr3374121bkv.5.1339785443643; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m2sm11049443bkm.2.2012.06.15.11.36.51 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120615.183723.329.1@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:37:23 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: mergemaster bug? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:37:25 -0000 I'm runing FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE-p3=0D=0A=0D=0ASys is upgraded and all files = in sync, but just for fun:=0D=0AWithout any args:=0D=0A# = mergemaster=0D=0A-----------------------------------=0D=0A*** Creating = the temporary root environment in /var/tmp/temproot=0D=0A *** = /var/tmp/temproot ready for use=0D=0A *** Creating and populating = directory structure in /var/tmp/temproot=0D=0A=0D=0A+ ln -s = ../var/named/etc/namedb /var/tmp/temproot/etc/namedb=0D=0A+ ln -s = mail/aliases /var/tmp/temproot/etc/aliases=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A*** Beginning = comparison=0D=0A=0D=0A *** Checking /etc/rc.d for stale = files=0D=0A=0D=0A *** The following files exist in /etc/rc.d but not = in=0D=0A /var/tmp/temproot/etc/rc.d/:=0D=0A=0D=0A sshd=0D=0A=0D=0A = The presence of stale files in this directory can cause the=0D=0A = dreaded unpredictable results, and therefore it is highly=0D=0A = recommended that you delete them.=0D=0A=0D=0A *** Delete them now? = [n]=0D=0A *** Files will not be = deleted=0D=0A-----------------------------------=0D=0AI did a check = update via 'csup' and all was fine.=0D=0A=0D=0AStatus (exit code is = 0):=0D=0A# diff /usr/src/etc/rc.d/sshd /etc/rc.d/sshd=0D=0A=0D=0AThis is = a bug?!=0D=0ABitch wanted to nuke my sshd! If I've pressed 'yes' sshd = would never start again, after a reboot!=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj = Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 18:37:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53A7A1065670 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:37:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nonesuch@longcount.org) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD868FC0C for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:37:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so3782092lbo.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:37:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=zBOAy6M0MhzZ05/gTavYli70vCjUzEZZVh+5flgH5Ow=; b=B+UJZyEq8yerY9EAHiwpRQ/lMvMUN+X2LYrDNSYWY4XvJ0MTMcrk0//0J1P+7GWq6y PLWgl83rRNQgeudjiwa47tOApuJDPGOiYt20DCjek7q+D+G3W8peqvtajrIGfYgI1cf3 9diwoB5is24rG1om8nOXrmTQK8QJgLXsAsW5KPT/BaT4Hy9eK25iWXx1tsrjV9ON4T4m w61Nk1ql3HAekhEOfRTyaeMr32C/1hXbQdyOHJbJSNYY9040127P/1yLzU2Lhb+TiAgP BkcJA5UMtOZ/114JiJdbD0+sFp4ybkOWZfjxIwbrb57sYeVTJUouEyMgqKyjtShYgSsf n34A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.103.109 with SMTP id fv13mr6421328lab.33.1339785449943; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.27.137 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:37:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [216.223.13.198] In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:37:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mark Saad To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn9jidI0yRNZNQNuBZhNBsaqENblsg0cWlezCs18sxZR62kkKZRrQ2Vc1P6PImbbv/p+QCQ Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:37:37 -0000 So what , this fell on deaf ears or was it a horridly bad idea ? Anyone care to share ? On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Mark Saad wrote: > All > =C2=A0I have an partial solution to this issue I was thinking about this = on > my morning train ride, so its a bit bumpy. > > Here are my solutions they are not complete but I think its a good start. > > 1. When official errata and security updates hit the tree . Providing > updated install media could be step one . Maybe rebuild install media > periodical say every 3 months, if it warrants it. > > 2. Change FreeBSD-update to allow you to select what updates you want, > and make it work for stable. Simply put think "freebsd-update fetch > stable kernel" or " freebsd-update fetch release base" > > 3. Change FreeBSD-update =C2=A0to tweak a library so the -pN level is not > hardcoded into the kernel at compile time. Currently FreeBSD's patch > or "p level -pN " is a newvers.sh function . > > 4. Publish a longer time line for future releases and make it easier > to find. =C2=A0While ken smith's email about the 9.1-RELEASE time line wa= s > a good start , for 9.1,I feel that a short general time line on > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/ would do a world of good for people > want to know whats up next and when can I expect it. It does not need > to be exact just a rough estimate. > > The sum total of all of this , in my eyes, is when updated drivers ( I > know its a still a wish and not reality ) , bug fixes , security > updates are released , new installs done around that time will start > out with all of the good bits. Secondly when new updates are released > users can apply base updates and kernel updates to both release and > stable as needed. Lastly updates released via this new method would be > easily checked via uname -a =C2=A0or maybe " freebsd-update show version" > > > Fire away. > > --- > =C2=A0Mark Saad | mark.saad@longcount.org --=20 mark saad | nonesuch@longcount.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 19:43:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C43106564A; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from outbackdingo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476378FC0C; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:43:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so3302789bkv.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:43:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6BWcAE2ouXNxptPn/a6eSE2FeZ9BhNu3JZIi1MqWqtU=; b=y+RZuD+23XE6wmlGpZeUaZLD1ydUh4zK5rW9ZVhJRUjl4NYmI7ap6d9po+pDYtfbeB 5MJfK6o0eg5rUbXgfpUJhZCvxm8d9jTgbTMDAwbxRglWl/aofkrK3Wd1/jrudQ87DE+3 85funNZ6KP6yss9mAE0MJ4eBES7NJAn5Atzjj3W73G0V5xHj67X8uMJORWevl49xxbpL H+TldIASkZRdMwnxbbMSNWdeY//NbE5m4sa6hICVsWp3DAkUQNFFE72bAHI4jfXxJGxa bGK3peRBwgh95X9WIOSZu4bu4zXDYNKICK7jVfL/XqNghW4RnUcuVrs7DWYkbcTUKx6s RCcQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.22 with SMTP id e22mr3397725bkw.8.1339789417911; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.33.193 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:43:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:43:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: Outback Dingo To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , openrc@gentoo.org, Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:43:40 -0000 On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Atte Peltom=E4ki w= rote: > On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 02:09:38PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: >> Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if >> FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel >> free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We >> would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. > > Replacing rc(8) has a lot of risks and not many benefits. Current system > is somewhat limited, but it works, it's simple to understand and > everyone already knows it and uses it. > > Solaris SMF is by far the most advanced bootup/service manager I've come > across, even though it's UI is somewhat irritating. When configured > correctly, you can trust SMF to deal with any problem; when a needed > resource for a given service is down, that service isn't started. When > the service is malfunctioning, it's restarted at a configured interval > or marked as malfunctioning and stopped and admin is contacted. And so > forth. Faster boot times come as a simple added bonus from proper > design. > > Anyone serious about replacing rc(8) should take a good look at SMF > feature list, then decide if such a thing is worth spending time > reimplementing. Doing a dozen half-assed implementations like Linux is > doing is just dumb and aggravates sysadmins. > > Personally, as much as I like power of SMF, I think FreeBSD devs have > much more important (and interesting) things to do. > Theres always Launchd also......... > -- > Atte Peltom=E4ki > =A0 =A0 atte.peltomaki@iki.fi <> http://kameli.org > "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 20:59:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7811065670 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:59:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from rush.bluerosetech.com (rush.bluerosetech.com [199.48.134.58]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295608FC0A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:59:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vivi.cat.pdx.edu (vivi.cat.pdx.edu [IPv6:2610:10:20:214::6]) by rush.bluerosetech.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E834E11437; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:8643:970:211:43ff:fe70:5826] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:8643:970:211:43ff:fe70:5826]) by vivi.cat.pdx.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86A6324C8A; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FDBA214.1070807@bluerosetech.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 13:59:00 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120421 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eugene Grosbein References: <4FDB25E0.2070705@eudaemonicsystems.net> <4FDB4362.8020509@grosbein.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDB4362.8020509@grosbein.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/resolv.conf getting over written with dhcp X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:59:09 -0000 On 2012-06-15 07:14, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 15.06.2012 19:09, Varuna пишет: > >> About 2***, so what are the conditions to be true to figure out that >> /etc/resolv.conf has not changed? > > There is simple solution: create file /etc/dhclient-enter-hooks > and override add_new_resolv_conf() there to do nothing: > > add_new_resolv_conf() { > return 0 > } > > Works just fine for my systems. Or just add something like: interface "eth0" { supersede domain-name "example.com."; supersede domain-name-servers 192.0.2.1; } To your /etc/dhclient.conf and make dhclient do the right thing. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 22:44:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF118106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@shadowsun.net) Received: from mail.atlantawebhost.com (dns1.atlantawebhost.com [66.223.40.39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DB78FC14 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:44:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 29374 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2012 18:44:31 -0400 Received: from c-24-62-202-164.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (HELO ?192.168.1.33?) (24.62.202.164) by mail.atlantawebhost.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2012 18:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:44:31 -0400 From: Eric McCorkle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120612 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:44:32 -0000 I've been working on EFI support for intel platforms. I've managed to build the EFI Development Kit (EDK II) and the IASL compiler for FreeBSD, which raises the possibility of integrating them either as ports, or possibly into the base system. Here is some background: Right now, there is only one EFI program that gets built in the entire system: loader.efi (for IA64, and in the future, i386 and amd64). This is done by building a standard ELF program with a custom linker script which produces code at a base address of 0x1000 (This is a trick to get the effects of compiling for position-independent code, as required by the PE format, as the actual .text section starts at that offset into the file). It then uses objcopy to translate to the PE executable format. I've had some strange behavior in some of the EFI interfaces (notably, ConOut), which smacks of some sort of subtle ABI issue. EDK seems to be made for development on a windows box, with marginal support for Darwing and some Linux distros added as an afterthought. It takes a bit of shoehorning to get it to build and run on FreeBSD, but I did get it to work. However, it would take a nontrivial effort to get it in shape for importation into the base FreeBSD system. It also relies on mingw32 binutils and gcc, as well as python (though it only uses python for build purposes; an effort to import it into the base system would probably remove all the python bits). The IASL compiler comes with a bunch of other ACPI components, some of which may very well be in the base system already. However, the EFI programs I produce using the EDK system work properly, and don't have the same issues as the ones I produce using what's in the base system. As for what to do with EDK and the IASL compiler, there seem to be two possibilities: 1) create ports for them, 2) plan on importing them into the base system. Here's the advantages and disadvantages as I see them: Port advantages: less work, doesn't mess with the base system, less need to change the EDK and IASL compiler sources and build tools, less work to keep up to date with releases Port disadvantages: won't be available for building EFI boot loaders Base system advantages: tools will be available for building boot loaders and other components, easier to maintain compliance with UEFI (EDK is published by Intel, and represents the official EFI toolchain), less likely to run into subtle ABI-related bugs in EFI programs, makes future EFI support efforts (ie on ARM) significantly easier. Base system disadvantages: more work, would require rewriting the build process to avoid dependence on python, gmake, mingw32, and others, adds more to the base system. I'd like to get some discussion/commentary on these options, to figure out which is the best way forward. Thanks From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 22:47:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E24106566B for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:47:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rsimmons0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AD08FC15 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:47:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbfy7 with SMTP id fy7so2400275vcb.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:47:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+dzw0lK5g6Si393kfzBLLtnFJ1rpjJfAPryxfwlqI2o=; b=TkWLgYlEm8EvPGmr8TYLUeB7pEiBXJhvkjmlwER3bG6bVXf2AFgTdzITibdA40OTA8 g8M4uWk/0GP7TkPd/3xjJSjoENLSgz3ONRDr+jOtSp4AcCH7J8TAOsjzFs2jE09gS+/M bTVHFoI6xYTxPVm2yfzBmhQeHicuBZmtWsY8h7oypLxSf/KBWb8dKIAaMuIEV7d8Yt0V A9LaCD7OYH6uNTlgoYHqtBUsBv8nqwOlDcvXqIbIS9RpzQbDq13oengFSxYcCi7lWzF4 uPG41blFKJ38FYZ+scyS1MkJkQc+36kADIc7gd/LMzKkhMiJW3a6hqz20bDz5soKALPP AlKA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.88.176 with SMTP id bh16mr3062933vdb.132.1339800464261; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.113.97 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:47:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> <20120614144128.GB26121@lonesome.com> <96D1E708-FBBE-4E7F-B70A-4AA48EFD3268@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:47:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Simmons To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:47:45 -0000 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hi, > > 9 will mature as people use it and report bugs/regressions. It would > be really great if you could try some of your workload on -9 and > provide feedback and file PRs. > > Engaging with the community (and hiring developers :) is by far the > best way to get things to mature quickly. As an aside, its more projects like this that need to happen: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2012-June/068129.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 22:56:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41BE10656D7 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9227E8FC19 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:56:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so4879827dad.13 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:56:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=y/QoP6tHr7sAp5pv8iHbehph572T1zP00p2TAl1+BGk=; b=KjkN0ngEpXoXw3aRt4V5PPCFRBlO6tuLrCe3Bq3rgurpaf3Bht8nctGDaECWzokGT/ nDa+k3aXdtXZDFSpZK3ig3KVYAZDdD2/giVNkr6bM6BG0i07Kly7GlXXvYhtAEaPTIKc UgEIlDe2sg1JxJOMYWPjVzj2Wn1+l+zf+edwNMlFJuCaF2dabvsgstsFJczr6UBc05ri HGRYn5IQtDUR+r0DakbM2MP0xN5kj42aWSRLhchlKr5h7jyVKsv4cOpmCG+sSYgxzszJ 5chs93ZPG5iJJXNCdfPcBGC4o6+MFyN4fAYoeOX3k9eXARvH6U5wD4bymN98p/GMrqC2 tBzQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.116.203 with SMTP id jy11mr24699204pbb.129.1339801000505; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.91.18 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:56:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9A0E2.9010101@my.gd> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:56:40 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XO0c9LiS1mR6pjjWahHKVpTHwEE Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Mark Saad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming release schedule - 8.4 ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:56:46 -0000 The suggestions are all good, but they require volunteers to volunteer more of their time (for free, hence "volunteering") to maintain longer branches; it requires more resources from volunteer mirrors (for free, hence "volunteer") to store even more ports and CD-ROM ISO snapshots. What we as a community need is more people standing up and taking these jobs on. No-one will complain if you decide to tackle, say, the ISO snapshots based on security releases. But you'd then have to do all of the QA that goes into generating the release, building the ports, doing some tests to make sure there aren't any glaring gotchas, asking users to test out your pre-.0 release image (and they don't, then complain when .0 didn't work), etc, etc. So please, if you can step up, take ownership and start attacking these issues, we'll embrace you with open arms. :) Adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 00:11:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BEEE1065672 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:11:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7AC1A7E64; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:09:33 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4FDBCEBD.6080500@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:09:33 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120609 Thunderbird/13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rank1seeker@gmail.com References: <20120615.183723.329.1@DOMY-PC> In-Reply-To: <20120615.183723.329.1@DOMY-PC> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mergemaster bug? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 00:11:05 -0000 On 06/15/2012 11:37, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > *** The following files exist in /etc/rc.d but not in > /var/tmp/temproot/etc/rc.d/: > > sshd man src.conf, and search for SSH. You have one of those options defined in your environment. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 10:03:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0978106566C for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:03:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from forward16.mail.yandex.net (forward16.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1402::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413D88FC08 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:03:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp18.mail.yandex.net (smtp18.mail.yandex.net [95.108.252.18]) by forward16.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 1AC3FD2163C; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:03:36 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1339841016; bh=Rc246jk97Wh8okZGxfVfHxXgUnBpvkcsXElkXGW+lrQ=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=X5pBRINaAXyuwxdM5WHHFcqPnJnEuKk/0yetg+BVctQWlAaCP7coomXzks3hD02Ly 9OCPIvFROAKf3FqS38P0QejMOhUcQCgN+4TuTG91zvQpyOYDR0w3LR/kj7zqXBp+89 zL9xtNeG7kAVSFyS42SEYz4Q6utx97PdE6EkQn5c= Received: from smtp18.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp18.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id EDB6B18A0233; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:03:35 +0400 (MSK) Received: from dynamic-178-141-5-132.kirov.comstar-r.ru (dynamic-178-141-5-132.kirov.comstar-r.ru [178.141.5.132]) by smtp18.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id 3ZnCTo4U-3ZnOFikR; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:03:35 +0400 X-Yandex-Rcpt-Suid: eric@shadowsun.net X-Yandex-Rcpt-Suid: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1339841015; bh=Rc246jk97Wh8okZGxfVfHxXgUnBpvkcsXElkXGW+lrQ=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CM9IEJRDBlsF8W8qIUthT65U6UhdMregFSkefyqCS1h7uIgJ1ly4o1u7Vf1y3VWTH H3SRHnaHuKizYegalkxXZ91lVyGGNPAGkMm57yHQ98GGB3uC6sAINIbdBiy4TTt0hK ewCw4FZqE61MQ4hUasRfl+nUojEeyvHELTwalqpI= Message-ID: <4FDC59F5.9010801@yandex.ru> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:03:33 +0400 From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120406 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric McCorkle References: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDBBACF.9040809@shadowsun.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: EFI development tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:03:37 -0000 On 16.06.2012 02:44, Eric McCorkle wrote: > I've been working on EFI support for intel platforms. I've managed to > build the EFI Development Kit (EDK II) and the IASL compiler for > FreeBSD, which raises the possibility of integrating them either as > ports, or possibly into the base system. > > Here is some background: > > Right now, there is only one EFI program that gets built in the entire > system: loader.efi (for IA64, and in the future, i386 and amd64). > This is done by building a standard ELF program with a custom linker > script which produces code at a base address of 0x1000 (This is a > trick to get the effects of compiling for position-independent code, > as required by the PE format, as the actual .text section starts at > that offset into the file). It then uses objcopy to translate to the > PE executable format. I've had some strange behavior in some of the > EFI interfaces (notably, ConOut), which smacks of some sort of subtle > ABI issue. > > EDK seems to be made for development on a windows box, with marginal > support for Darwing and some Linux distros added as an afterthought. > It takes a bit of shoehorning to get it to build and run on FreeBSD, > but I did get it to work. However, it would take a nontrivial effort > to get it in shape for importation into the base FreeBSD system. It > also relies on mingw32 binutils and gcc, as well as python (though it > only uses python for build purposes; an effort to import it into the > base system would probably remove all the python bits). Hi, Eric. Did you try the GNU EFI toolchain? It contains a good descriptions on how to build EFI application and we probably can use some suggestions even without importing it. http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnu-efi/ -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 12:09:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC2F106566C; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:09:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD3B8FC08; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:09:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhj8 with SMTP id hj8so281334wib.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 05:09:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=iwQlfYSNV/KCKZwEBUNJjjFzwj72NBwRxzBgFwqPIes=; b=XJ2CuCYSy+DeeFxYxHo7/r5B6iYDBAQJe7Sm6PnhXrkrQ06eGepaRnvDzdKViBr1e5 8gIMq8J/+m1SpTPYv9KRkZHQ+t0t62zxokatdlC7QG0ZaUqn4Z4Jncs5g1HuF2wv7CgM IibCrzny2Ykhhxo/Zwm65zVE99T2O/0dmLqxWnOTaMCxRFmOtX+bdpBtmMzZ2T6AzlKC uLHyCeSxvV+mv2c/ygtOWZwslfG53Qe5qnwOk57U2zXmg1kyDJfLIH/CPHjVq0JbGHsz h7H9dmYUJ5gosy9Y420/8ZbpNnZ8jG+qNuRW4sfK3mRzUgoZg1GUy/xw0NiR4ppgwpPt guFg== Received: by 10.216.143.195 with SMTP id l45mr5164709wej.49.1339848567542; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 05:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ei4sm17617447wid.5.2012.06.16.05.09.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 16 Jun 2012 05:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120616.120927.848.2@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "Doug Barton" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:09:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4FDBCEBD.6080500@FreeBSD.org> References: <20120615.183723.329.1@DOMY-PC> <4FDBCEBD.6080500@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: mergemaster bug? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:09:29 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Barton To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:09:33 -0700 Subject: Re: mergemaster bug? > On 06/15/2012 11:37, rank1seeker@gmail.com wrote: > > *** The following files exist in /etc/rc.d but not in > > /var/tmp/temproot/etc/rc.d/: > > > > sshd > > man src.conf, and search for SSH. You have one of those options defined > in your environment. > > Doug > > -- You were right. I had a WITHOUT_OPENSSL set, as I've tested something and forgot to remove it. Thanks. Domagoj From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 13:07:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFFC1065670 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:07:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pieter@degoeje.nl) Received: from smtp.utwente.nl (smtp1.utsp.utwente.nl [130.89.2.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98D48FC16 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:07:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nox.student.utwente.nl (nox.student.utwente.nl [130.89.165.91]) by smtp.utwente.nl (8.12.10/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id q5GCxmeY032164; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:59:48 +0200 From: Pieter de Goeje To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:59:20 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.2.0-2-amd64; KDE/4.7.4; x86_64; ; ) References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201206161459.20596.pieter@degoeje.nl> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UTwente-MailScanner-Information: Scanned by MailScanner. Contact icts.servicedesk@utwente.nl for more information. X-UTwente-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-UTwente-MailScanner-From: pieter@degoeje.nl X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Wojciech Puchar , d@delphij.net Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:07:15 -0000 On Thursday 14 June 2012 06:48:14 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" > >> holes? > > > > I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like > > brk() works for memory. > > BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB but > uses 5GB. > > i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and > then...do nothing. Actually you can. Use dd if=infile of=outfile conv=sparse to convert a file to a sparse file. This obviously only works on filesystems supporting sparse files, such as UFS. Regards, Pieter From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 16:06:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45F9106566C for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:06:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40FA48FC14 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:06:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5GG6Qnk041368; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:06:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q5GG6QbH041365; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:06:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:06:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Pieter de Goeje In-Reply-To: <201206161459.20596.pieter@degoeje.nl> Message-ID: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> <201206161459.20596.pieter@degoeje.nl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, d@delphij.net Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:06:45 -0000 >> >> i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and >> then...do nothing. > > Actually you can. Use dd if=infile of=outfile conv=sparse to convert a file to a > sparse file. This obviously only works on filesystems supporting sparse files, > such as UFS. of course i can by copying. not really what i want > > Regards, > Pieter > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 18:58:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113AD1065670 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:58:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms16-1.1blu.de (ms16-1.1blu.de [89.202.0.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C878FC08 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:58:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [89.204.137.49] (helo=tiny.Sisis.de) by ms16-1.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SfyCX-000609-5c; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:58:26 +0200 Received: from tiny.Sisis.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tiny.Sisis.de (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5GIwOAB001300; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:58:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: (from guru@localhost) by tiny.Sisis.de (8.14.5/8.14.3/Submit) id q5GIwNsl001299; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:58:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) X-Authentication-Warning: tiny.Sisis.de: guru set sender to guru@unixarea.de using -f Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:58:23 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT r226986 (i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Con-U: 0-guru X-Originating-IP: 89.204.137.49 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, rozhuk.im@gmail.com Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:58:46 -0000 El da Wednesday, May 30, 2012 a las 07:44:37PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar escribi: > > from; one has to go (by pressing ESC) to the boot menu to pick it up as > > current boot device; any idea how this could be changed? > > boot from 4GB. just put /boot here and add > > vfs.root.mountfrom="ufs:XXX" > > where XXX is your root filesystem device name with "/dev/" stripped > > do not forget to bsdlabel -B your.4GB.SSD > > WARNING: you must have proper disklabel with a: partition containing UFS > with /boot. > > But you may have a partition equal to whole disk > > a: 117231408 0 4.2BSD 0 0 0 > c: 117231408 0 unused 0 0 # "raw" part, don't edit > > > and it is absolutely OK, UFS do not overwrite first few sectors as it is > reserved for it. > > And PLEASE DO NOT make this stupid MSDOS style slices. It is not just > unneeded but introduces mess and only mess. > > just have /dev/ad0a not /dev/ad0s1a OK, but I wanted to have most of the space of the 4 GB SSD encrypted with geli(8); so I should make there some slice containing /boot (unencrypted) and a second slice which later will contain my HOME and encrypted; wrong? matthias -- Matthias Apitz e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370) UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 19:01:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8654C106566C for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:01:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEF18FC14 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:01:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so3881912bkv.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=hQG5JyDT8UaiJOUY9MiN5CwC1WIPxi4RjNleEnF0R54=; b=S7v7rQN/7FEIE8YZNZGGXjuZU4dyhNrUpZcXtVTQQlRxdTEDYjSSUnutt2SiCTyehY auOGraP6tcflD1kP27DuEvSBllRKWYlPwM/xNnvcLjhnbbQR3+CDA8hvFkvRcejMm0Tz dyD/lO243pXKNKpkuF+QWZNxqYoVIebbSQJjcVrGctq98U6I3WJWkDdnZ415FklfddJk /LkdV9xp5D6LJEGH1DXXlb3VJhykA8lOp3KON69LvgZlf8EBqOLKNRZFfvaAIJqELfhj i5p196ZJVPJF7JtWM9C4jXjNRyjEjofVJI/cjROre6+LgIc/tH7eC/GpzQgKLZhSQNu1 LqXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.214 with SMTP id p22mr4252920bkw.115.1339873270679; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:01:10 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Xin LI Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:01:12 -0000 On Jun 14, 2012 5:49 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> >>> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" >>> holes? >> >> >> I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like >> brk() works for memory. > > > > BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB but uses 5GB. > > i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and then...do nothing. > What if you cp it? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 19:25:38 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932C2106564A for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:25:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rank1seeker@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4708FC12 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:25:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so3938815wgb.31 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:25:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:from:to:subject:date:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer; bh=UVcAiR2pgdLMiRK9SFL56GAowYJ0IVJqwjlpk9OBSqQ=; b=QV84fC8f6WzR6VlTQgrJt3PyB3RB4/kxH1t97JypjIpaR15pHdTIIPJ5683ghtka8x lT/JCg0skS2CcwiZrhF8kUpw8dzAmyegjePtgzUYmxAkh43cYaDBldY4GPn7P1rdUz8l wJ8T42aOarIE8jhb9S4SERYXtCcWwhf3MGFfLVKQgcQXyo/SAnJUIZKW65xDRTBVReHm jPbWiKsFIkp5iWPCqJIdoWR/G4lC9lV2e1WGHzuVHFnmCqgHJFB+yzacVrScjr+dZNnF 3Dg10nzPf3J/Mvp/vUJsMIbWam1pTRVQgFtYrhXLAxNLol9RwGJATVQ4sT8IZxoYsta5 E/ug== Received: by 10.180.107.99 with SMTP id hb3mr12879830wib.0.1339874736950; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DOMYPC ([82.193.208.173]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e20sm12919972wiv.7.2012.06.16.12.25.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20120616.192536.412.3@DOMY-PC> From: rank1seeker@gmail.com To: "Matthias Apitz" , hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:25:36 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> X-Mailer: POP Peeper (3.8.1.0) Cc: Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:25:38 -0000 > > And PLEASE DO NOT make this stupid MSDOS style slices. It is not just = =0D=0A> > unneeded but introduces mess and only mess.=0D=0A> > =0D=0A> > = just have /dev/ad0a not /dev/ad0s1a=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AWhat FreeBSD devs = have to say about this?=0D=0A;)=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A> OK, but I wanted to = have most of the space of the 4 GB SSD encrypted=0D=0A> with geli(8); so = I should make there some slice containing /boot=0D=0A> (unencrypted) and = a second slice which later will contain my HOME and=0D=0A> encrypted; = wrong?=0D=0A> =0D=0A> matthias=0D=0A> --=0D=0A=0D=0AYou can encrypt ANY = provider.=0D=0APut HOME on i.e; 'h' bsd label and encrypt it via = geli.=0D=0A=0D=0AOr encrypt whole SSD and have /boot on USB stick or = optical media, or ...=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ADomagoj Smol=E8i=E6 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 19:38:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23AE106566B for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:37:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92AA8FC08 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:37:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so2726127qcs.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:37:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=n6W0q4arSmKZ8hhdlS3J0SydkxU2OrdTeHiaqeEOefo=; b=y7z5hlndOstWwIwyMnDERKaWqGU6s/Y/MFUu3mdIFpiv+6dwBUuzEJA8W3azq9dm9S T6S19NeJR+Z9Z20JRwfmUHuwdxnhgOia78GQi75V4cXEiYKuOTTA3qLVUDio549icMzy RYl2aBN1fmR+IViF+hicv7bc6zHDNGiPBPUlRdC++c5Ed45hVtH6fbndms9otMwZju8/ 82mZ0IZ2305JJ7mwtcOtDmh+y0ocPJ4aHAYWlSh5hYTGFJV0/ljE6xaLw3fxKpalw+66 U1DgN31jSb/2tRdRgVo6sv21E1W57Pzq+tjAY0943uRbz+i/01jYYv3gjUQs+NmH73bi lxIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.182.13 with SMTP id ca13mr18577374qab.60.1339875478645; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.81.1 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:37:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 12:37:58 -0700 Message-ID: From: Xin LI To: Chris Rees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 19:38:00 -0000 On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Chris Rees wrote: > On Jun 14, 2012 5:49 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" > wrote: >>>> >>>> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" >>>> holes? >>> >>> >>> I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like >>> brk() works for memory. >> >> >> >> BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB but > uses 5GB. >> >> i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and > then...do nothing. >> > > What if you cp it? That would be a dd(1) unless we teach cp(1) how to do sparse. I think what he wanted is to tell the OS "I don't need block XX - YY anymore" and the OS creates a sparse hole, which is not available at this time. Cheers, -- Xin LI https://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! Live free or die From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 20:04:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97E01065680 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F468FC1E for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so3901657bkv.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:04:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=oJ+04lISYXklqGKd0Yg1+YaR5+Z40b9Uk/6CfSo6kDA=; b=yyqduNfMSxXio611KRYxx5wNBmbGXDbx1+vDIr4NpmxPCVp9K4VhjLc/Vkbbdrtnza 1KFqi+WTVpwErgaF4ssf63QLAeIqPzLzk0Twk/9rYNKUnlQTPJKNDLftVmP2wVlZL30x m97jpIg2QoYUB4ap4JQvJbGa/KbcVFKWvp7UqwJJTJTFkgBf9Q+jpCI9qFO0TgBFHbJi 8JsmYUGssRik2xtSrrm59rUs2LG3hxO7AO4qPfLoBJx07E8sO0R/AvNIL+Egxj2BDysV 9HvsGPA9G8lfe4jVs5j2T+wprmpgM/voJLxx+De40Nl2brFkVt6nRxunF0ya2PsQto9S 6fmg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.214 with SMTP id p22mr4294498bkw.115.1339877066222; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:04:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:04:26 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Xin LI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:04:28 -0000 On Jun 16, 2012 8:37 PM, "Xin LI" wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Chris Rees wrote: > > On Jun 14, 2012 5:49 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" < wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> > > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" > >>>> holes? > >>> > >>> > >>> I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like > >>> brk() works for memory. > >> > >> > >> > >> BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB but > > uses 5GB. > >> > >> i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and > > then...do nothing. > >> > > > > What if you cp it? > > That would be a dd(1) unless we teach cp(1) how to do sparse. I think > what he wanted is to tell the OS "I don't need block XX - YY anymore" > and the OS creates a sparse hole, which is not available at this time. Sorry, I must have misread. I take it cp would take a file with holes and only copy the data part? i.e. take a 10G file of which 5G is a hole, you'd end up with a 5G file? Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 20:34:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77FC1065741 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:34:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B2F8FC0A for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:34:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so2740271qcs.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:34:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=PUdMTyMSNs2DM8q8AfOZCl1RmuQdsSJwQ7FQuVjNJCo=; b=AGMM+TwYF527OWqEBXEqucWfhCv1I1N+aFlUvWltLKmc36Oxo9TgECUcrX0Ntps8NR ZWFQQhXsv2NUAPW+r7aA5aFllI9nf65tfUb/wn8SKwTHduR3q/DhC+z/bydNN00gLXSZ vrbCAFP22GPESAn4nns9XUbmm1lMgQaUtpPx/XK2u0sym5pjlYO6l22nRO+7NDgPr8G7 Mn+5xZAENQg9s4C10RfU874x9vP3ITeQ7cbewRGvjFGTT4QhNT53MevXrfry8G2eBb2y Mr/GDoc5lJ4Mkcr/yJjM4PJ8n4Hrklh5sa5qkSVqYmZKuR12qXA/Dh+yuuUS61vHTHQl x51g== Received: by 10.224.105.79 with SMTP id s15mr16725343qao.28.1339878895768; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fe8sm30700079qab.11.2012.06.16.13.34.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:34:50 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120616163450.2d0fa3c7@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkfMge1gyRAWJ0KpZJYl305yx7RKKZXKhCkPKfZjBfFyKpAd/v8MuB5YJnGprvz+QLqPE8w Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:34:56 -0000 On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:04:26 +0100 Chris Rees wrote: > On Jun 16, 2012 8:37 PM, "Xin LI" wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Chris Rees wrote: > > > On Jun 14, 2012 5:49 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" < > wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> > > > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punch" > > >>>> holes? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much like > > >>> brk() works for memory. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB but > > > uses 5GB. > > >> > > >> i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and > > > then...do nothing. > > >> > > > > > > What if you cp it? > > > > That would be a dd(1) unless we teach cp(1) how to do sparse. I think > > what he wanted is to tell the OS "I don't need block XX - YY anymore" > > and the OS creates a sparse hole, which is not available at this time. > > Sorry, I must have misread. I take it cp would take a file with holes and > only copy the data part? i.e. take a 10G file of which 5G is a hole, you'd > end up with a 5G file? No, cp just does read()s. Reading data from a hole returns a block full of zeros. A quick test (after writing a program to create the file) shows this: bhuda% df -h . Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/md0 123M 1.2M 112M 1% /tmp bhuda% ls -lh holey.test -rwxr-xr-x 1 mwm wheel 953M Jun 16 16:22 holey.test Ok, I've got a file that's 953M on an FS with 1.2 meg used. It's got holes. bhuda% cp holey.test foobar /tmp: write failed, filesystem is full cp: foobar: No space left on device And doing a cp fails. Use dd conv=sparse to get the effect you want. http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 20:46:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FBE106564A for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:46:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031B48FC0A for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:46:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so7632509obc.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AQJ82lE+dKZdw4n6wgURKn3wPFu639RwVqYq0RoYqA0=; b=Zoxx+385rE4Hr0H9xShLnZybHOQGysv1nszzDUK1DUqtsR3IOte6uq/AOAHcsoAh9j t0auxZJZil9CPKFPNJLOXSsdoCPlu74TjCLfauG9rTP/tuU2pdmUOyGTfnTcZ/WsrKeH 6t5yXrhievZsS1OtNcaDL3nKuPcH2XxCsNzQF+Z+goJnqJHHUd1q1BYYbX5ElR+B4wkU tqlpRfjuQ7ZpFRzvgUCkVVVnUZrmMrMKipFgDSA+tnVNnU/36FxqrIJy+V+88uOsXwCp pA2mUi0vgVTu4UJtJ4hBpYolPb9z+1hAzz7GqnAXWpqld/EOP49FE3WqpA6BSrSC2NWk FLqA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.3.202 with SMTP id e10mr10472758oee.52.1339879614494; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.98.77 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120616163450.2d0fa3c7@bhuda.mired.org> References: <4FD94240.6060806@delphij.net> <20120616163450.2d0fa3c7@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 13:46:54 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Mike Meyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BIO_DELETE equivalent for file on FFS filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:46:55 -0000 On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:04:26 +0100 > Chris Rees wrote: > >> On Jun 16, 2012 8:37 PM, "Xin LI" wrote: >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Chris Rees wrote= : >> > > On Jun 14, 2012 5:49 AM, "Wojciech Puchar" < >> wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> >> > > wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> file to take 900MB or... can i call some system function to "punc= h" >> > >>>> holes? >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> I think you can only truncate the file at this time, pretty much l= ike >> > >>> brk() works for memory. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> BAD. suppose i keep windoze VM image on filesystem which takes 10GB= but >> > > uses 5GB. >> > >> >> > >> i could write simple program to find out what blocks are unused and >> > > then...do nothing. >> > >> >> > > >> > > What if you cp it? >> > >> > That would be a dd(1) unless we teach cp(1) how to do sparse. =A0I thi= nk >> > what he wanted is to tell the OS "I don't need block XX - YY anymore" >> > and the OS creates a sparse hole, which is not available at this time. >> >> Sorry, I must have misread. =A0I take it cp would take a file with holes= and >> only copy the data part? i.e. take a 10G file of which 5G is a hole, you= 'd >> end up with a 5G file? > > No, cp just does read()s. Reading data from a hole returns a block > full of zeros. A quick test (after writing a program to create the > file) shows this: > > bhuda% df -h . > Filesystem =A0 =A0Size =A0 =A0Used =A0 Avail Capacity =A0Mounted on > /dev/md0 =A0 =A0 =A0123M =A0 =A01.2M =A0 =A0112M =A0 =A0 1% =A0 =A0/tmp > bhuda% ls -lh holey.test > -rwxr-xr-x =A01 mwm =A0wheel =A0 953M Jun 16 16:22 holey.test > > Ok, I've got a file that's 953M on an FS with 1.2 meg used. It's got > holes. > > bhuda% cp holey.test foobar > /tmp: write failed, filesystem is full > cp: foobar: No space left on device > > And doing a cp fails. Use dd conv=3Dsparse to get the effect you want. Our version of cp doesn't support sparsing of files, but Linux's does: http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blcmdl1_cp.htm Our copy of dd and rsync are the two common tools I know of that properly handle sparse files if the underlying filesystem supports it (like Xin said), apart from writing a tool to do the necessary calls to lseek to do the right thing in the file (which is possible, but you would need to potentially read the whole file in, or pieces, similar to defrag until Windows might do). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 21:22:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157461065672 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886708FC18 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi18 with SMTP id i18so3924752bkv.13 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=aBPoD6OVEPjYVPEQ5fgciA7F/v9Wa0FS8jtuQf3CFjw=; b=TYUGmusFaEw+KNjxm0aA4LxhTePrGAsXBFlxnWuY3cE9ij1gZcYFZ6aINFZPg3Cz2r Y10KYmrgKY99+Mcst/RAB/HstvmlupDOj9fkIYJWPp1DHy7iisW/q+LRdtaXi8nAQbwf sQQQLwyBVeIC35EMOLLts/HeVIUcWfBtt+GmRBHthMM8n0C2DIkCf+SQdXKrrjVI/MAu n8OxO7WuDTwOAywoyYGPoHCF6HgpS3SQVseW0ViD9iyaMt2vl1s3hbGrt0ykODkOX08K Djg2GECw0Lge3iSPLjGfFiKuBbe31aLPS4CU9naE1+cNneKfDtIKAq9t2frUL1kQqUl+ f+qQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.193 with SMTP id p1mr4377377bkw.102.1339881739379; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120616.192536.412.3@DOMY-PC> References: <4fb7dfd6.736a980a.186d.ffff902f@mx.google.com> <20120519180901.GA1264@tiny> <20120525183006.GA1259@tiny> <20120525225839.GA7347@server.rulingia.com> <20120527082745.GA2591@tinyCurrent> <20120616185822.GA1253@tiny.Sisis.de> <20120616.192536.412.3@DOMY-PC> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 22:22:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: rank1seeker@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Matthias Apitz , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: proper newfs options for SSD disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 21:22:21 -0000 On Jun 16, 2012 8:26 PM, wrote: > > > > And PLEASE DO NOT make this stupid MSDOS style slices. It is not just > > > unneeded but introduces mess and only mess. > > > > > > just have /dev/ad0a not /dev/ad0s1a > > > What FreeBSD devs have to say about this? > ;) I say we have GPT this decade :) Chris