From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 22:09:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F18688E6; Sun, 19 Oct 2014 22:09:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-x234.google.com (mail-lb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D667D96; Sun, 19 Oct 2014 22:09:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id n15so2973012lbi.11 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2014 15:09:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=dNRnW9tft1KPSp0ZZiAe50lEk6jZCyt3Q6hILnGlEbU=; b=QVJQd4YNSb2J8Nqi7kFmoPoK5NlPkBwOiXYzyh4guf8Y2KRGIyYGgl2e7SF6FMrLDB 0fXKWkcFMvsQvytbX3/d+QSURWeXwrm5BDfs+YmwNQlYssEOxpRaDjvK9Q2UnW67z74f Tvmz0yvnEaWKj78dOel49nsRjSqBW7ea/FQ9fptVRH8mBtnxfNxC2iJojQNxAoEOD3nZ tPLEYVBZn/xCdF/WXtZgEc/pA1tKb4XHu+WwtJD+fZQb5NrKeot0JH7qWPMuWjdCHpf3 O+rVAFQdP5tmjU+vkCjiZUx6UkUOkXbQHIuhcLm0AL2TmCoem4VpezcpAty2KaOLnZ4v ZDUQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.10.143 with SMTP id i15mr23465398lab.5.1413756551085; Sun, 19 Oct 2014 15:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: crodr001@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.131.66 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Oct 2014 15:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 15:09:11 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gSiyBO0YjQWQu7FcWEwafmsFqu8 Message-ID: Subject: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview From: Craig Rodrigues To: freebsd-current Current , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 22:09:14 -0000 Hi, If you don't watch BSDNow.tv ( http://bsdnow.tv ), I encourage you to do so. Allan Jude and Kris Moore do a great job of doing a weekly video podcast of news in the BSD world. It is great stuff. In episode 58 ( http://www.bsdnow.tv/episodes/2014_10_08-behind_the_masq ) BSDNow interviewed the CTO of Voxer ( http://voxer.com ), a mobile messaging startup based in San Francisco. Voxer mentioned how they transitioned from SmartOS (an Illumos/Solaris distribution) to FreeBSD. What Voxer liked: (1) DTrace worked for their node.js apps (2) ZFS worked nicely (3) jails work nicely (4) Easy to transition away from SmartOS/Illumos because of (1) and (2) (5) Better support for 3rd party applications (ports) than SmartOS/Illumos (6) Better hardware support than SmartOS/Illumos (7) Good documentation, professional/technical discussions on mailing lists (8) For people who use MacOS X, the FreeBSD command-line utilities were familiar What Voxer didn't like: Voxer was super positive about FreeBSD in the interview, and didn't really mention many downsides to their transition. The only things I could pick up on: (1) Support for FreeBSD in Chef was not as good as they would have liked. They actually have patches to Chef for FreeBSD which they want to upstream. (2) Most devops engineers in web/mobile companies are familiar with Linux. Any differences between Linux and FreeBSD in command-line utilities are not show-stoppers, but they are annoyances. Anything FreeBSD could do to help people used to Linux would be a big help. Allan Jude even brought up my request to symlink /bin/bash ( https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2014-September/095483.html ) :) The interview was really good, and I encourage everyone to watch it. It's nice to see a "modern" web/mobile company migrating *to* FreeBSD. -- Craig From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 08:19:51 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0343DFF8; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cloud.theravensnest.org", Issuer "StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C72E2D00; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:19:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.106] (cpc14-cmbg15-2-0-cust307.5-4.cable.virginm.net [82.26.1.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s9K8Jcfn087914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:19:42 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: theravensnest.org: Host cpc14-cmbg15-2-0-cust307.5-4.cable.virginm.net [82.26.1.52] claimed to be [192.168.0.106] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:19:31 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> References: To: Craig Rodrigues X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:19:51 -0000 On 19 Oct 2014, at 23:09, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > (2) Most devops engineers in web/mobile companies are familiar = with > Linux. Any differences between Linux and FreeBSD in > command-line > utilities are not show-stoppers, but they are annoyances. > Anything FreeBSD could do to help people used to Linux = would be > a big > help. Allan Jude even brought up my request to symlink > /bin/bash ( > = https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2014-September/095483.ht= ml > ) :) I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / = developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, = tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I = wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with = something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different = tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have = all of the GNU tools work by default. =20 David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 17:36:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7656114A for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:36:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.ultra-secure.de (mail.ultra-secure.de [88.198.178.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8273E40 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:36:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 3330 invoked by uid 89); 20 Oct 2014 17:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.200?) (rainer@ultra-secure.de@217.71.83.52) by mail.ultra-secure.de with ESMTPA; 20 Oct 2014 17:36:23 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview From: Rainer Duffner In-Reply-To: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:36:10 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:36:15 -0000 > Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall : >=20 >=20 > I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / = developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, = tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I = wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with = something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different = tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have = all of the GNU tools work by default. =20 >=20 They use chef. The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the = FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. = Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. Which means that to =E2=80=9Ebootstrap=E2=80=9C a node, you=E2=80=99ve = first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash = and then bootstrap the node. Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 18:42:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFD9D9E1; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:42:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lifanov.com (mail.lifanov.com [206.125.175.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B390F8BB; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:42:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.lifanov.com (Postfix, from userid 58) id F3EF71B4362; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (vnat004.nandomedia.com [166.108.31.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lifanov.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B73081B435E; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:33:20 -0400 From: Nikolai Lifanov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rainer Duffner , David Chisnall Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> In-Reply-To: <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:42:34 -0000 On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: > >> Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall : >> >> >> I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. >> > > > They use chef. > The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. > Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. > Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. > > > Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This way managing FreeBSD "just works". Maybe chef can benefit from the same approach? - Nikolai Lifanov From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 18:43:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F0BEB47; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:43:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-x231.google.com (mail-la0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91A8E8DE; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f49.google.com with SMTP id q1so4530161lam.36 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:43:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=eePNaMCbtjwoJ7Wt/ZTXZFAEuc0NHdE3aU/wqE7WBaM=; b=hkIIyXWZQxxR8vH31rtjB1ysj4mRwrFR6YzpDPyqRSMJPNf0OtSnZtXn2KYG0axbkC O05IL7M17WnbHrtG+fP2LlBH+wyOCpSGQEt0xnDC+HDK3/9yVkyxhYduL6ZNS4TddV1O mmggEKbSEpD1eUk63n6t7YqVBmakE1SOXBmEGVz5bP3eVZJTTKT0x9rDnaTE6MFrwUZf 6yzee7hQ4C3RJZRSndKFLXjzfNwJYhdoP58RutJdSL+2MK54gEYds2N6+kCvsAzhHwwc Dfb20j1PuhhC2xqfcjfbJiEkVwiq1amWIgOjtVyMT3NtksM23u2dayDMMhK6dsWxzDlR nsmg== X-Received: by 10.152.87.171 with SMTP id az11mr4883749lab.97.1413830630396; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id je9sm3570281lac.6.2014.10.20.11.43.48 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:43:46 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Nikolai Lifanov Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview Message-ID: <20141020184345.GA20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:23:51 +0000 Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current , Rainer Duffner X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:43:53 -0000 --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: > On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: > >=20 > >> Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall : > >> > >> > >> I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / develo= pers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, a= nd a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's wo= rth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris= approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add= that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by defau= lt. =20 > >> > >=20 > >=20 > > They use chef. > > The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeB= SD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this = got fixed in the meantime. > > Which means that to =E2=80=9Ebootstrap=E2=80=9C a node, you=E2=80=99ve = first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and t= hen bootstrap the node. > > Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! >=20 > The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This > way managing FreeBSD "just works". Maybe chef can benefit from the same > approach? >=20 USES=3Dshebangfix is there exactly for that. regards, Bapt --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRFV+EACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EwHIQCfQt0K3hI121MaV2Avj0pwpm8X tQ4An2nQ8U41BlEpV65SaqJfp5qNg+AQ =C4Bz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 18:49:36 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB7A7E0D; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:49:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.lifanov.com (mail.lifanov.com [206.125.175.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC30B935; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:49:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.lifanov.com (Postfix, from userid 58) id 78A281B4368; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (vnat004.nandomedia.com [166.108.31.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lifanov.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 81C1E19E448; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5445593B.4090606@mail.lifanov.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 14:49:31 -0400 From: Nikolai Lifanov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baptiste Daroussin Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> <20141020184345.GA20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> In-Reply-To: <20141020184345.GA20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:24:12 +0000 Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current , Rainer Duffner X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:49:36 -0000 On 10/20/14 14:43, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: >> On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: >>> >>>> Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall : >>>> >>>> >>>> I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by default. >>>> >>> >>> >>> They use chef. >>> The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this got fixed in the meantime. >>> Which means that to „bootstrap“ a node, you’ve first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. >>> Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. >>> >>> >>> >> >> Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! >> >> The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. This >> way managing FreeBSD "just works". Maybe chef can benefit from the same >> approach? >> > USES=shebangfix is there exactly for that. > I USES=shebangfix, but it only fixes ~40% of path problems (although in a very neat and easy to use way). Hardcoded etcdir, module directory, man pages, etc. also need to be changed. > regards, > Bapt > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 18:51:23 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91AD8F30; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:51:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-x22f.google.com (mail-lb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8005D94D; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:51:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f175.google.com with SMTP id u10so4495499lbd.34 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:51:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=rLrf6PlJN3v/mZbT2XDNaGKFHLV27B1iKfOg8kh5ABk=; b=0U21Bc6SnXO4+VRHFIZ99uOPgvqsp/edQse1Xjyd5KIzCHlxLIDDDSQhwudRieELz9 VZo53XCNnwDlrMNjLzLvgN7cs88PXFtxpP1/6f+XCfVOFZXbNzHAxgdxNc65FJAUB1rW u87IIZ7M1tYrbWtjSwLxFqWAwZc/45bDBCgPkht5lzE5T5dVeZDCtq6KvPJNGkwRycMB g16EfbYRKBhFhp9+eODLoFH1RhQHZHKqgtMiSLgIygCAkAJndEBvPVjbHbRBb1McOY3N j1F1IT1yV30NZkczlQmrTBGwWkTKAUBlrJEijfSCsTh986z3hr907AEWqXba1lLY3dlt 0arg== X-Received: by 10.152.27.67 with SMTP id r3mr29338491lag.19.1413831080451; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nb7sm3561944lbb.43.2014.10.20.11.51.18 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:51:16 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Nikolai Lifanov Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview Message-ID: <20141020185115.GC20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> <20141020184345.GA20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <5445593B.4090606@mail.lifanov.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YD3LsXFS42OYHhNZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5445593B.4090606@mail.lifanov.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:24:26 +0000 Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current , Rainer Duffner X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 18:51:23 -0000 --YD3LsXFS42OYHhNZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:49:31PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: > On 10/20/14 14:43, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 02:33:20PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote: > >> On 10/20/14 13:36, Rainer Duffner wrote: > >>> > >>>> Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / deve= lopers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, bash,= and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder if it's = worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like the Solar= is approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can just a= dd that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools work by def= ault. =20 > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> They use chef. > >>> The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the Fre= eBSD version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe thi= s got fixed in the meantime. > >>> Which means that to =E2=80=9Ebootstrap=E2=80=9C a node, you=E2=80=99v= e first got to install pkg on it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and= then bootstrap the node. > >>> Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Hi from sysutils/ansible maintainer! > >> > >> The ansible port REINPLACE_CMDs away hardcoded paths at build time. Th= is > >> way managing FreeBSD "just works". Maybe chef can benefit from the same > >> approach? > >> > > USES=3Dshebangfix is there exactly for that. > >=20 >=20 > I USES=3Dshebangfix, but it only fixes ~40% of path problems (although in > a very neat and easy to use way). Hardcoded etcdir, module directory, > man pages, etc. also need to be changed. >=20 Yes that is the job of the maintainer, so bugging the chef maintainer is the right thing to do. Maintaining a port meaning making sure it workds properly the FreeBSD way. regards, Bapt --YD3LsXFS42OYHhNZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRFWaMACgkQ8kTtMUmk6Ey7RACgwXEoQKIR9x0p4t1B8/AZIImu Hv4An0nty0+swNHHuSQ+pt+bOBM/jPsR =lSjc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YD3LsXFS42OYHhNZ-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 19:13:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B339171A for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:13:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.ultra-secure.de (mail.ultra-secure.de [88.198.178.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D74D1C27 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 5437 invoked by uid 89); 20 Oct 2014 19:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.200?) (rainer@ultra-secure.de@217.71.83.52) by mail.ultra-secure.de with ESMTPA; 20 Oct 2014 19:13:48 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview From: Rainer Duffner In-Reply-To: <20141020185115.GC20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:13:35 +0200 Message-Id: References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> <20141020184345.GA20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <5445593B.4090606@mail.lifanov.com> <20141020185115.GC20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> To: Baptiste Daroussin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:24:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current , Nikolai Lifanov X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:13:40 -0000 >>=20 > Yes that is the job of the maintainer, so bugging the chef maintainer = is the > right thing to do. >=20 > Maintaining a port meaning making sure it workds properly the FreeBSD = way. The omnibus installer is not a port. AFAIK. It=E2=80=99s the installer provided by Chef (the company, formerly known = as =E2=80=9EOpscode=E2=80=9C). It=E2=80=99s basically a shell-script with an archive attached that = dumps stuff into /opt/chef and creates a couple of symlinks. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 19:48:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DE89215; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:48:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-x22e.google.com (mail-lb0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED1B6F65; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:48:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f174.google.com with SMTP id p9so4454129lbv.5 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=gD4eXlDs1uYQ8h7mCRL91IGNnvYNfpsJI+VDznBTTkY=; b=lE3X0AAfL389jiZct7WkhoHVJmht+qSRRXnxCmw7fEAB+/lQO1iwQmsimM1AW1/clU 6ANmLFyRldS3Ls+uLIuw0iJ6KVC12FJSMS6nfhNvlXXtjDJ9IHQnrJSGDvRhq/qDDq3H cKB7Qj4BTkBLCo1tJKPFkG/HaSBvW9QQbhv++Zhy474H5yPHo2wN/Hg1V2+9s0JfCQFI MBFmj0rAw28MEIMVAeLHbaFegmZjdetXxtBI9PHf1zEew7bkPgJp1ZZNNYxl7MN8+WoW AukWc+sGeNML1z4SLwP2KsIlBo40U7cgy9EZ2JzNPlIu8CXp4czgoSnHT+vvh4NF+Iy9 SfLA== X-Received: by 10.152.216.167 with SMTP id or7mr5370004lac.93.1413834517661; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id dc5sm3615189lbd.24.2014.10.20.12.48.35 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 21:48:33 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Rainer Duffner Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview Message-ID: <20141020194833.GD20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> <54455570.8070808@mail.lifanov.com> <20141020184345.GA20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <5445593B.4090606@mail.lifanov.com> <20141020185115.GC20589@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Xm/fll+QQv+hsKip" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 20:34:49 +0000 Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current , Nikolai Lifanov X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:48:41 -0000 --Xm/fll+QQv+hsKip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 09:13:35PM +0200, Rainer Duffner wrote: > >>=20 > > Yes that is the job of the maintainer, so bugging the chef maintainer i= s the > > right thing to do. > >=20 > > Maintaining a port meaning making sure it workds properly the FreeBSD w= ay. >=20 >=20 > The omnibus installer is not a port. > AFAIK. > It=E2=80=99s the installer provided by Chef (the company, formerly known = as =E2=80=9EOpscode=E2=80=9C). >=20 > It=E2=80=99s basically a shell-script with an archive attached that dumps= stuff into /opt/chef and creates a couple of symlinks. >=20 >=20 >=20 Well that is the problem, I know a couple of people using chef from ports on freebsd just fine on some large deployments, that explains why I got surpri= sed by this feedback Bapt --Xm/fll+QQv+hsKip Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRFZxEACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EwxrACeITY63e1fYLSiD+OikJiXQmt6 s+QAn2AKKB5I+UUBjPdoKNdErwbojj9Y =Ph6X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Xm/fll+QQv+hsKip-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 23:18:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9A722B9 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 23:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f174.google.com (mail-ie0-f174.google.com [209.85.223.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93232A7F for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 23:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id tr6so68154ieb.5 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:18:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Wh4l48lbVXhDrtzoImv1FVHDmZ7EUmkAJOirr/0X8oo=; b=gpYmjASCFa3RRQBPYH48GvYU+CAJhd2qgOs0XIaJbz4389qPNB4mUwFEBatXWHWmzs r6NHPSGBo0KHX0+Mcoz6nU+U0L4mvc0Rf6jVSqGXL703L3KSoMtjwSz1I3WK8gGCTS+S S2WryTFjsBjPOwIjlESPHMry2k3eBjE6MJlHbdXqVBG6GEliO167jJk/W14aBGmPqIfR 8LleNLYOU8GAjJvWegNGJZZQDBGzVuJsMz+SAFrVG0lOfsy3H6lIGEu3dVtcq51WD7NF xtQmKUr9FNXoELPKg7QEu/jF2fk00lWzYF4YL0xQ28ijsm113knfED2Ju0BOqyu3wxwM MG6w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnhFgKAzVIDEU0PWKMZoVtkJyxegCyAUIOxrNU8PcERghqJcaFx2hjocH5AioIiS6MIQd1A MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.61.137 with SMTP id p9mr22060996igr.34.1413847125694; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.182.200 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:18:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [68.101.40.130] In-Reply-To: <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> References: <31A8D963-F8EF-4D68-9586-39EE8A7C7C5A@FreeBSD.org> <1FB509B4-25C3-42D7-9F66-8685DEC712D2@ultra-secure.de> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:18:45 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Voxer using FreeBSD, BSDNow.tv interview From: "Philip M. Gollucci" To: Rainer Duffner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-current Current X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 23:18:52 -0000 Not true, you can roll your own omnibus chef builds with this fixed. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Rainer Duffner wrote: > > > Am 20.10.2014 um 10:19 schrieb David Chisnall : > > > > > > I presume that most of the relevant differences are for users / > developers and not sysadmins? It's worth noting that GNU coreutils, tar, > bash, and a load of other things are in the ports repository. I wonder i= f > it's worth having a gnu-userland metaport, perhaps with something like th= e > Solaris approach of sticking them all in a different tree so that you can > just add that to the start of your PATH and have all of the GNU tools wor= k > by default. > > > > > They use chef. > The chef omnibus installer assumes there is a /bin/bash. Even the FreeBSD > version of it. Well, it least it did the last time I looked. Maybe this g= ot > fixed in the meantime. > Which means that to =E2=80=9Ebootstrap=E2=80=9C a node, you=E2=80=99ve fi= rst got to install pkg on > it, install bash, symlink it to /bin/bash and then bootstrap the node. > Which kind of runs against the concept of doing everything via chef. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g > " --=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------ TaxiMagic Mobile App $10 Promo Code - 'p6magic' any 1st time rider can use it $ 5 Promo Code - 'cabbie' - thanks New Castle! 4096R/D1EAB94D 2081 E230 3001 6508 8847 1BBF A0A8 DB0F D1EA B94D Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354 Member, Apache Software Foundation Committer, FreeBSD Foundation Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc. Sr. Director IT Operations, RideCharge Inc. Work like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt, and dance like nobody's watching.