From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 7 10:15:38 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C13BBA4; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 10:15:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp25.services.sfr.fr (smtp25.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED90D96; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 10:15:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [93.4.34.137]) by msfrf2508.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id AA515700027F; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:15:37 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: sfrmc.priv.atos.fr; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none (no policy) header.from=listjm@club-internet.fr Received: from [192.168.1.67] (137.34.4.93.rev.sfr.net [93.4.34.137]) by msfrf2508.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 67CBF7000278; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:15:37 +0100 (CET) X-SFR-UUID: 20141207101537425.67CBF7000278@msfrf2508.sfr.fr Message-ID: <548428C7.2050800@club-internet.fr> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:15:35 +0100 From: Juan =?iso-8859-1?b?UmFt824=?= Molina Menor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Subject: Frequency of FreeBSD package builds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:15:38 -0000 Hi! Now that the new_xorg and ssp repositories are not being updated any more, what is the reason for the 'beefy' machines to build ports only once a week? Can we expect the frequency of package upgrades to be higher soon? Best regards, Juan From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 11:28:27 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7FDA191; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 11:28:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from prod2.absolight.net (mx3.absolight.net [IPv6:2a01:678:2:100::25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "plouf.absolight.net", Issuer "CAcert Class 3 Root" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7FDA343; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 11:28:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from prod2.absolight.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by prod2.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34ADBDC30; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:28:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from gw.in.absolight.net (gw-ecl.in.absolight.net [79.143.241.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gw.in.absolight.net", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (not verified)) by prod2.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B398DBDC2E; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:28:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from ogg.in.absolight.net (ogg.in.absolight.net [79.143.241.239]) by gw.in.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333C460E8; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:28:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogg.in.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9B1794900B; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:28:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:28:24 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: =?UTF-8?Q?Juan_Ram=C3=B3n_Molina_Menor?= , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Frequency of FreeBSD package builds Message-ID: <307D7D309A871FC7AB3405E1@ogg.in.absolight.net> In-Reply-To: <548428C7.2050800@club-internet.fr> References: <548428C7.2050800@club-internet.fr> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:28:28 -0000 +--On 7 d=C3=A9cembre 2014 11:15:35 +0100 Juan Ram=C3=B3n Molina Menor wrote: | Hi! |=20 | Now that the new_xorg and ssp repositories are not being updated any | more, what is the reason for the 'beefy' machines to build ports only | once a week? Can we expect the frequency of package upgrades to be higher | soon? Right now, it does take 3 to 4 days to build the packages each week, so it's a bit hard to make it more often than once a week. We have plans for the future, with more building machines, it will be announced when it happens. --=20 Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 8 12:23:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A09CA94 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:23:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp22.services.sfr.fr (smtp22.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7ACB23 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:23:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [93.4.34.137]) by msfrf2214.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 55A2B70000BD for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 13:23:05 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: sfrmc.priv.atos.fr; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none (no policy) header.from=listjm@club-internet.fr Received: from [192.168.1.67] (137.34.4.93.rev.sfr.net [93.4.34.137]) by msfrf2214.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 319D370000AB for ; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 13:23:05 +0100 (CET) X-SFR-UUID: 20141208122305203.319D370000AB@msfrf2214.sfr.fr Message-ID: <54859827.1020802@club-internet.fr> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:23:03 +0100 From: Juan =?iso-8859-1?b?UmFt824=?= Molina Menor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Subject: Frequency of FreeBSD package builds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:23:08 -0000 > +--On 7 décembre 2014 11:15:35 +0100 Juan Ramón Molina Menor > > wrote: > |/ Hi! > /|/ > /|/ Now that the new_xorg and ssp repositories are not being updated any > /|/ more, what is the reason for the 'beefy' machines to build ports only > /|/ once a week? Can we expect the frequency of package upgrades to be higher > /|/ soon? > / > Right now, it does take 3 to 4 days to build the packages each week, so > it's a bit hard to make it more often than once a week. We have plans for > the future, with more building machines, it will be announced when it > happens. > > -- > Mathieu Arnold Thanks for the explanation Mathieu. Best regards, Juan From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 12:42:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26083A39 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:42:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx2.paymentallianceintl.com (mx2.paymentallianceintl.com [216.26.158.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx2.paymentallianceintl.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA7CFE60 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:42:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from firewallnew (162-230-214-65.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net [162.230.214.65]) by mx2.paymentallianceintl.com (8.14.5/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sB9Cfw0Y038214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 07:41:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mikej@mikej.com) Received: from mail.mikej.com (firewall [192.168.6.63]) by firewallnew (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id sB9CfaSP098519 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 07:41:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mikej@mikej.com) X-Authentication-Warning: firewallnew: Host firewall [192.168.6.63] claimed to be mail.mikej.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:40:32 -0500 From: Michael Jung To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Subject: pkg upgrade candidates not correct Message-ID: <0258064f3624aa951fa099190d4bc249@mail.mikej.com> X-Sender: mikej@mikej.com User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.0.2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 12:42:02 -0000 I noted that when running 'pkg upgrade' only 50 candidates where detected when I have 1158 ports installed. What am I missing? My local repository 0local is built using poudriere 3.1-RC3 [root@charon ~]# pkg -v 1.4.0.rc3 [root@charon ~]# pkg update -f Updating 0local repository catalogue... Fetching meta.txz: 100% 260 B 0.3k/s 00:01 Fetching packagesite.txz: 100% 351 KB 359.8k/s 00:01 Processing entries: 100% 0local repository update completed. 1488 packages processed Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... Fetching meta.txz: 100% 944 B 0.9k/s 00:01 Fetching packagesite.txz: 100% 5 MB 296.4k/s 00:18 Processing entries: 100% FreeBSD repository update completed. 23741 packages processed [root@charon ~]# pkg info | wc -l 1158 [root@charon ~]# pkg check -Ba Checking all packages: 100% [root@charon ~]# uname -a FreeBSD charon 10.1-RC1 FreeBSD 10.1-RC1 #1 r272610M: Mon Oct 6 09:52:58 EDT 2014 mikej@charon:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 [root@charon ~]# pkg upgrade Updating 0local repository catalogue... 0local repository is up-to-date. Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... FreeBSD repository is up-to-date. All repositories are up-to-date. Checking for upgrades (50 candidates): 100% Processing candidates (50 candidates): 100% Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) The following 5 packages will be affected (of 0 checked): Installed packages to be REINSTALLED: sqlite3-3.8.7.2 [0local] (options changed) libwpg03-0.3.0 [0local] (direct dependency changed) libsoup-gnome-2.48.0_1 [FreeBSD] (needed shared library changed) libdrm-2.4.58_1,1 [0local] (options changed) guile-1.8.8_2 [FreeBSD] (direct dependency changed) The process will require 79 KB more space. Proceed with this action? [y/N]: --mikej From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 9 15:57:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C77F6D6B for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 15:57:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mario.brtsvcs.net (mario.brtsvcs.net [199.48.128.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DDF07FA for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 15:57:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (c-71-59-211-166.hsd1.or.comcast.net [71.59.211.166]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mario.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D36B32C160E; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 15:57:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:7:2580:bce:baca:3aff:fe83:bd29] (ivy.houseloki.net [IPv6:2601:7:2580:bce:baca:3aff:fe83:bd29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D76011C3; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 07:57:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54871BD6.1050103@bluerosetech.com> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:57:10 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Reply-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Jung , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pkg upgrade candidates not correct References: <0258064f3624aa951fa099190d4bc249@mail.mikej.com> In-Reply-To: <0258064f3624aa951fa099190d4bc249@mail.mikej.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 15:57:24 -0000 On 12/9/2014 4:40 AM, Michael Jung wrote: > I noted that when running 'pkg upgrade' only 50 candidates where > detected when I have 1158 > ports installed. What am I missing? Do `pkg upgrade -f` instead of `pkg upgrade` if you want it reinstall all packages. From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 11 22:56:42 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFAAA619; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:56:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BEED98; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:56:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBBMuFMA033464; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:56:15 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:56:15 +0300 (MSK) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: Mathieu Arnold Subject: Re: Frequency of FreeBSD package builds In-Reply-To: <307D7D309A871FC7AB3405E1@ogg.in.absolight.net> Message-ID: References: <548428C7.2050800@club-internet.fr> <307D7D309A871FC7AB3405E1@ogg.in.absolight.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:56:15 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Juan_Ram=F3n_Molina_Menor?= X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 22:56:42 -0000 Mat, On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > | Now that the new_xorg and ssp repositories are not being updated any > | more, what is the reason for the 'beefy' machines to build ports only > | once a week? Can we expect the frequency of package upgrades to be higher > | soon? > > Right now, it does take 3 to 4 days to build the packages each week, so > it's a bit hard to make it more often than once a week. We have plans for > the future, with more building machines, it will be announced when it > happens. Am I right supposing that each build is a full one? What are the downsides of incremental builds which should take less than, say, 2 days (if not deepest beats like gettext updates involved)? -- Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 00:08:14 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ACFEBE9; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 00:08:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from prod2.absolight.net (mx3.absolight.net [IPv6:2a01:678:2:100::25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "plouf.absolight.net", Issuer "CAcert Class 3 Root" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B526B01; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 00:08:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from prod2.absolight.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by prod2.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597F8BDC25; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:08:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from atuin.in.mat.cc (atuin.in.mat.cc [79.143.241.205]) by prod2.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 39C58BDC24; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:08:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by atuin.in.mat.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94ADB1EDECC4; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:08:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:08:08 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: Dmitry Morozovsky Subject: Re: Frequency of FreeBSD package builds Message-ID: <77E4DBD49647EB45C3CF72B7@atuin.in.mat.cc> In-Reply-To: References: <548428C7.2050800@club-internet.fr> <307D7D309A871FC7AB3405E1@ogg.in.absolight.net> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Juan_Ram=C3=B3n_Molina_Menor?= X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 00:08:14 -0000 +--On 12 d=C3=A9cembre 2014 01:56:15 +0300 Dmitry Morozovsky = wrote: | Mat, |=20 | On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Mathieu Arnold wrote: |=20 |> | Now that the new_xorg and ssp repositories are not being updated any |> | more, what is the reason for the 'beefy' machines to build ports only |> | once a week? Can we expect the frequency of package upgrades to be |> | higher soon? |>=20 |> Right now, it does take 3 to 4 days to build the packages each week, so |> it's a bit hard to make it more often than once a week. We have plans |> for the future, with more building machines, it will be announced when = it |> happens. |=20 | Am I right supposing that each build is a full one? What are the | downsides of incremental builds which should take less than, say, 2 days | (if not deepest beats like gettext updates involved)? No, it is incremental builds, for all port versions of FreeBSD except CURRENT, because ABI change often, and it's safer to just rebuild everything everytime. Right now, there are two boxes, one for amd64 and one for i386, and the build order is the current quarterly branch for 9 and then 10, then head for 10, 9, CURRENT and 8. Also, when there is a security advisory or errata notice and the jails get updated, there is always a full rebuild. This week, the quarterly branches took about 12 hours to build and had each ~6680 ports to build, and for head, the 10 build wanted to build 11744 (out of 24k) took 15h28 to do so, the 9 wants to build 11747 ports, and has been running for 4h50 as of right now. If I look at last week, on the amd64 box, both quarterly only had ~700 ports to build and it took ~1h20, but on head, 10 had 16779 and took 18h26, 9 had 18638 and took 20h33, CURRENT had 24384 (full) and took 27h13, and 8 had 18652 in 19h17. That's about 90 hours of build, which is 3.75 days. I can say off the top of my head that 2*3.75 > 7, so you can't do it twice a week. Also, we *do* need some time to do maintenance, like updating the host, and other stuff. There was a few SA out today, so next week it'll be full build for everybody, it *will* take about 20 hours for each architecture (except CURRENT where it'll be 27h) that'll be a bit more than 5 days. So, long story short, no, we cannot do twice a week *right now* we have more hardware on the way, that will allow us to triple the build power, and when that gets here, we will certainly do package more often, but it's in the future. --=20 Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 01:51:46 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F00CBF7; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:51:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F31C6B4; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBC1llXj035643; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 04:48:17 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 04:47:47 +0300 (MSK) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: Mathieu Arnold Subject: Re: Frequency of FreeBSD package builds In-Reply-To: <77E4DBD49647EB45C3CF72B7@atuin.in.mat.cc> Message-ID: References: <548428C7.2050800@club-internet.fr> <307D7D309A871FC7AB3405E1@ogg.in.absolight.net> <77E4DBD49647EB45C3CF72B7@atuin.in.mat.cc> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 12 Dec 2014 04:48:17 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Juan_Ram=F3n_Molina_Menor?= X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:51:46 -0000 Mat, On Fri, 12 Dec 2014, Mathieu Arnold wrote: > | Am I right supposing that each build is a full one? What are the > | downsides of incremental builds which should take less than, say, 2 days > | (if not deepest beats like gettext updates involved)? > > No, it is incremental builds, for all port versions of FreeBSD except > CURRENT, because ABI change often, and it's safer to just rebuild > everything everytime. > Right now, there are two boxes, one for amd64 and one for i386, and the > build order is the current quarterly branch for 9 and then 10, then head > for 10, 9, CURRENT and 8. Also, when there is a security advisory or [snip all the very detailed explanaition] Thank you, and all of portmanager team, very much to bring us full up-to-date packages besides all the whole debris you've just described! ;-P Seriously, pretty much of work. Thank you again. -- Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 17:56:51 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EE1C334 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 17:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm9-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm9-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.154]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08695B3E for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 17:56:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.215.143] by nm9.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2014 17:56:43 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.223] by tm14.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2014 17:56:43 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1032.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2014 17:56:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 704462.36905.bm@omp1032.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 65690 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Dec 2014 17:56:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1418407003; bh=T2k4FeXXoWx0zh/CA/Me+FEmwRZaFNxwGFbhrsNnkGw=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=APScP5oaiV7tFvwpW1yvDpfn0lQyvWB4ulSFw6g2Y2S/Py5YPLYoNXntv9YSBzS3bj89fVhgV7sNdBzY74px1ULHdPkSq7AL45QqWUAeCCSI+5DOcLL/XoISUljgt4UTMl489fgooRzWy9pO2azMRy8ie+wgdGFsQkeDpdzZIQo= X-YMail-OSG: vJIY.ycVM1nbJd.uRSvoRrziMeUvINSiscxMsU_Vc.p4vX7 n.psqul0jpZAVX63J4cb2_jf1sTLMyTUtEompkQS7ydRYrLlkz5N38s3oxap LOkarK4lgg4xFQCDR7GbvIG1zCBOqpw54.3WtBa7RJuIIfun_KybOXhAVv3D M.vJhCh3H6AUPL4icEO00vW2wuTlBKexEH1I7__C_LNiwIuVALh5ucxNXEpZ ONoCzUOD2z2wDFx5Dun_eo5rxe.O9sCSx3K3pyJJxbvQvTMI_xK0AaBHju.z n6IQ0vF6qxQbzYDUfJ.NnuwF1k2t6LlbpFKY63rdg7GO5oDtQV8xdshq364i qpl8ard9prsHrohFo2kEH0Pwc3ihGxo35ZkUum3opg5m3VffC74O_3Ji9BVM zYkhoZxJx.1bytuZWJdq63xFsMBKi5MMW2wDMutq6ERa5VPLCTVYQ.98ENP6 LqndXY3VmoKUQ4nIWpKyEQT02wVNQTbArOE0lyZV.HiQxt._tqwK5Igw2T0C Kc6AsebwxOQDv3D3slCTI25rObMg52p4yHFKkGD0E1KvN3CbpmMno9OiN8g- - Received: from [66.92.43.99] by web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:56:43 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, cGtnIGluZm8gcGtnDQpwa2ctMS40Ljk5LjAgIChwa2ctZGV2ZWwpDQoNCmNkIC91c3IvcG9ydHMvcG9ydHMtbWdtdC9wa2ctZGV2ZWwNCm1ha2UgZGVpbnN0YWxsDQpwa2ctZGV2ZWwgbm90IGluc3RhbGxlZCwgc2tpcHBpbmcNCi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4NCldhbnRlZCB0byByZXZlcnQgdG8gUEtHIGJlY2F1c2UgcGtnLWRldmVsIGFmdGVyIGRlaW5zdGFsbA0KcGtnIGZldGNoICB6Z3YgenppcGxpYg0KcGtnIGluc3RhbGwgIHpndiB6emkBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/886 YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.740 Message-ID: <1418407003.30450.YahooMailBasic@web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 09:56:43 -0800 From: Jeffrey Bouquet Subject: Another pkg showstopper, breaking also portupgrade To: ports@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: pkg@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 17:56:51 -0000 pkg info pkg pkg-1.4.99.0 (pkg-devel) cd /usr/ports/ports-mgmt/pkg-devel make deinstall pkg-devel not installed, skipping ....................................................... Wanted to revert to PKG because pkg-devel after deinstall pkg fetch zgv zziplib pkg install zgv zziplib Installs the port, says it is the wrong architecture, says it failed to install Changed the architecture in a file, still fails pkg info zgv not installed portupgrade zgv fails to do anything nor graphics/zgv ... So Portupgrade is silently failing pkg is not-helpfully failing and not usable until... Left with ports-only for now as far as installs. From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 18:20:30 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83585745 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:20:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm11-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm11-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.152]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C9FDD57 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:20:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.150] by nm11.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2014 18:20:23 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.217] by tm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2014 18:20:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1026.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2014 18:20:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 49432.88516.bm@omp1026.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 31775 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Dec 2014 18:20:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1418408423; bh=QdoRsPTox4y3EvmL31cHZsnuTqdytLFtphWoAmuHKLg=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=dDAtEQb2tZiLgTiO3wnNj1XvRoax2emnU45gTFuZUF0IupefCzb/gtnhhBakhg/aggczlVlwMT4xGJteur9gWMnH5LzXQPEcxsz7G41d7sgYzu3h901t88w74O5vcM13TP/Yht8K/7GuotFRhvyNtag3ED+BCHW8v0fhT18/Sfk= X-YMail-OSG: tHEpIn0VM1lduglDItqN_lQk0BlUbQVFrvxWzPqrGGdBUGO 0OmVRL3pxOSmho_AsfMAimgZbEOKA5eWBSaIuXPovUKf_u.xj72TKqoeyKiu aMxtQ_Lq7T1IF0TEByDaUBTXn2XlBZQ0Diq32X5FTkvfLIIQs6Pvmicz4zrJ 4dQjtLbS_M4XrUrpsY2ocrNKERyPp1T4FBUPgluVTP790EUNhpBMboY_0YI3 PQyWlRWmNQH2V3I79F0fEVeHKVXGOFiAKUod08bRKM7bFB9wFbBRgLeeChOw lkts3ZyY8AoTKaSlb_1m_FuBCb3UUwlGgsqX6ai3BnBuJ3bZdT3Vm1TaHB.v RWEpQhRMPuogug7WA8KUToz1ySEcaHtHZO24Onrza2Hu6SgRFfxzdbpCp25L yFoKHtjGvQpTRWFUmUeLnsGcy4wgNq6dxsPNzSdtEaEPk_rZO_hFHLESQ7NC iK4EsmYHtpsWjrZM.BTX03XwezDH2PiiBEDyKl7l.7iwDuAW6_gfWCyIdjTs OStO5A5N03LlkOhKQW6eSy9k5La0QGxLc2iAjnooDYNo4aI.l9Xa90aYLJA- - Received: from [66.92.43.99] by web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:20:22 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, UmV2ZXJ0ZWQgdG8gcGtnLCBieSBidWlsZCwgYW5kIEZPUkNFIFBLRyBSRUdJU1RFUi4NCg0KcGtncyBzdGlsbCBjYW5ub3QgYmUgaW5zdGFsbGVkLg0KDQpTdGlsbCBzdHVjayB3aXRoIHBvcnRzICggaG93ZXZlciBwb3J0dXBncmFkZSAtLSBub24tcGFja2FnZXMgLS0gc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUNCndvcmtpbmcgd2l0aCB0aGlzIHBrZyA8PCBwa2ctZGV2ZWwgZG93bmdyYWRlICkNCg0KKC8gcG9ydG1hc3Rlcj8gID09IG5vLCBjYW5ub3QgZ2V0IA0KaGFuZGxlLCBsb2NrIG9uIGRhdGFiYXNlKSAgb25seS4NCg0KLi4BMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/886 YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.740 Message-ID: <1418408422.13975.YahooMailBasic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:20:22 -0800 From: Jeffrey Bouquet Subject: Another pkg showstopper-- more information To: ports@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: pkg@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:20:30 -0000 Reverted to pkg, by build, and FORCE PKG REGISTER. pkgs still cannot be installed. Still stuck with ports ( however portupgrade -- non-packages -- seems to be working with this pkg << pkg-devel downgrade ) (/ portmaster? == no, cannot get handle, lock on database) only. ..............###########...............##################........... Should pkg and/or pkg-devel be more thoroughly tested before release into the tree? No other pkg usually hints at similar pkg system(s) breakage without a proven recovery/rollback procedure already documented... similar to what portupgrade does with its saving of shared libraries prior to upgrade of a port. From owner-freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 19:09:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: pkg@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA581FA4 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A67B02AE for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:09:43 +0000 (UTC) X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=YIodOG6x c=1 sm=1 a=PfRRqASh+22Lc+SRmnf6GA==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sIt-5M63AAAA:8 a=bgGLd2mmr-ILqXDyZkMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=PfRRqASh+22Lc+SRmnf6GA==:117 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.mail=roberthuff@rcn.com; spf=neutral; sender-id=neutral Received-SPF: neutral (smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com: 209.6.231.137 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of rcn.com) Received: from [209.6.231.137] ([209.6.231.137:59779] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.2.43620 r(Platform:3.6.2.0)) with ESMTP id B0/CF-27239-57D3B845; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:09:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <21643.15733.152071.546203@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:09:41 -0500 To: pkg@freebsd.org Subject: breakage(?) after upgrading pkg to 1.4.0 X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 24.4.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd10.1) Cc: roberthuff@rcn.com X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Binary package management and package tools discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:09:44 -0000 After upgrading, I get: huff@>> portmaster -a portmaster: All ==>>> Starting check of installed ports for available updates make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 95: if-less endif make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 96: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MENIGMAIL}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 109: if-less endif make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 111: Malformed conditional (! ${PORT_OPTIONS:MCOMPOSER}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 115: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MLIGHTNING}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 126: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MMAILNEWS} && ${PORT_OPTIONS:MENIGMAIL}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 142: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MMAILNEWS} && ${PORT_OPTIONS:MENIGMAIL}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 160: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MMAILNEWS} && ${PORT_OPTIONS:MENIGMAIL}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 166: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MMAILNEWS} && ${PORT_OPTIONS:MENIGMAIL}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 176: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MLIGHTNING}) make: "/usr/ports/www/seamonkey/Makefile" line 185: Malformed conditional (${PORT_OPTIONS:MMAILNEWS} && ${PORT_OPTIONS:MENIGMAIL}) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.ssp.mk" line 7: Malformed conditional (${OSVERSION} < 1000036 && ${ARCH} == i386) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.ssp.mk" line 20: Malformed conditional (!defined(SSP_UNSAFE) && (${ARCH} == i386 || ${ARCH} == amd64)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 1673: Malformed conditional (${ARCH} == "amd64" || ${ARCH} =="ia64") make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 1702: Malformed conditional (${WITH_PKG} == devel) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 2166: Malformed conditional (${PREFIX} == /usr) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 2179: Malformed conditional (${UID} == 0) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 2214: Malformed conditional (${UID} == 0) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 2755: Malformed conditional (${PREFIX} == /usr) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 2768: Malformed conditional (${PREFIX} == /usr) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 3404: Malformed conditional (${OSVERSION} >= 1000000 && !defined(WITHOUT_FBSD10_FIX)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 3951: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 5198: Malformed conditional ((${PREFIX} != ${LOCALBASE} && ${PREFIX} != ${LINUXBASE} && ${PREFIX} != "/usr" && !defined(NO_PREFIX_RMDIR))) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Uextract:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Upatch:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Uconfigure:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Ubuild:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Ustage:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Uinstall:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk" line 6029: Malformed conditional (${UID} != 0 && defined(_${:Upackage:tu}_REAL_SUSEQ) && !defined(INSTALL_AS_USER)) make: Fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue ===>>> All ports are up to date Seeing as I last updated seamonkey on December 8 and there are "/usr/ports/Mk" related errors ... I'm calling this a problem with pkg. Any idea what's happened? How can I help find out? Respectfully, Robert Huff